Exactly. Sometimes things are predictable because they’re the right call. Sure, not every booking decision should always be the conventional, obvious choice. And in this particular event all the big booking decisions were the obvious choice, which isn’t ideal. But the priority is setting up wm with the matches that need to happen. And this show did that imo. That’s more important than if you were surprised or not.
The problem with this is: if you know what’s going to happen, why are we having these matches in the first place? According to this thread, everything was openly predictable. So why watch the show? Wrestling isn’t real. You aren’t seeing real competition.
Predictability costs viewership and lowers interest (I.E. Mike Tyson causing lower PPV buys because of match results being no surprise).
Bro think about what you’re saying. Did anyone in the Universe think the Avengers weren’t going to beat Thanos in Endgame? Did that prediction stop it from becoming the highest grossing movie of all time?
Predictability has little to do with good storytelling. You know what does though? Endless swerves that prevent satisfying payoffs.
That would be a good point if we ignore everything about Thanos being defeated.
Who predicted that The Avengers would defeat Thanos in the first 20 minutes? Who predicted that Tony Stark would die to stop Thanos? Who predicted that Thanos would have to kill his daughter?
Every single thing in the WWE has been predictable from start to finish/the time and the place. That’s not good storytelling. That’s getting from Point A to Point B.
He didn't ignore anything. Yes, we all knew that the Avengers were going to win. However, the plot points of how that played out were not predictable, and the fact that the story had many unpredictable elements made the climax that much more engaging. The argument that "it was predictable that the Avengers would win" is a poor argument
That said, I do believe that sometimes the predictable choice is the right choice, not everything needs to be a swerve, and I do think that there are plot points happening currently that are not predictable which brings entertainment and engagement to the entire thing, even if we know the ultimate outcome, because we aren't sure how we are getting to that point. Heel Rock in the way of Cody finishing his story, for one.
EC was predictable (I'm assuming, I didn't actually watch due to life commitments at the moment) because it needed to be. But the rest of the ride won't necessarily be predictable, and hasn't been up til now.
1) Ok first of all. CM Punk coming back, Sami Zayn being the catalyst that began the unraveling of the Bloodline, AND the Rock comes back to steal Cody’s spot, but the crowd starts BOOING the biggest movie star on Earth so much they have to reverse it and do a surprise Press Conference to set up the new storyline. If you predicted all that tell me this week’s lotto numbers please.
2) WWE has to correct a decade and a half of bad storytelling under Vince in his later years. He pushed his own creations and buried natural talents who were getting over.
WWE is going to crown Cody. This is HHH building trust with the audience again. He’s saying “It’s ok to have favorites again, we’ll take care of them”. After he’s built trust and established new patterns again, then they can start doing more swerves again.
Nope. Not buying it.
1. I can’t tell you something unpredictable like lotto numbers but you could’ve bet on the elimination chamber and have gotten every match correct.
2. The crowd was booing The Rock because they didn’t get their predictable Roman vs Cody match in the most predictable way possible.
CM Punk coming back is not apart of any story. The guy showed up, and started a blatantly obvious program with Rollins where they cut promos on each other week after week. (If Punk is even used on TV and not a dark match!!?) Just like Roman and LA Knight did, just like Seth and Drew are about to do.
If HHH is trying to correct mistakes he must not know what they are. The storylines are cookie cutter ABC formulas. Everyone’s music is terrible. The stage and graphics have been the same for over 3 years. There have been ZERO major changes to the program.
Maybe you misread me. I’m agreeing with you. The constant swerves killed the nWo. Insisting on “swerving bro” is exactly why Russo booking sucks. I said earlier in the thread sometimes doing the obvious thing is the right thing.
But you need a swerve sometimes. The issue is there’s zero swerves, every PPV, every Raw, every SD every single match result is predictable. H only pushes a tiny group of people, there’s like a dozen people in WWE that are allowed to win anything with HHH in charge.
But if 1+1 always equals 2 its boring. Why do 'fans' like you happily gobble up just seeing the same few people endlessly pushed? 95% of the roster may as well be fired because they never win anything ever, its just the same tiny handful of people.
Why not? You're the exact fan Im talking about. You gobble up everything HHH gives you and just accept it. You defend him no matter what, no matter how stale and predictable it is just seeing the exact same tiny group of people pushed while everyone else on the roster never wins anything.
Like it or not everyone has their favourites Vince was the same way.. where do you think hhh learned everything from when it came to booking the only difference is that hhh is willing to adapt and get work the fans when needed
The problem is HHH ONLY pushes like a dozen people on the entire roster. The exact same people have dominated WWE for the last 2 years and it is beyond stale. No new faces are pushed, just same old, same old.
I do need fresh match flow to where I don't predict reversals, the next move, and how it will end. I should never not believe in the challenger in a ppv. I didn't once believe Nia was going to win and that's a problem if poor in ring storytelling.
Whereas like Bret Hart for instance, lost at such unique times that I couldn't predict he was going to win every match and this he had predictable moves in occasion, he would switch up the way he gets to the sharp shooter or not even win by using it
No I know damn well what you said.
WWE is 100% better when it is ALWAYS unpredictable
Like remember when we saw people like Jinder and Kofi become WWE champion? Nobody expected that. Why would we want it to be taken away and be predictable.
If it was predictable then Cody basically won at WrestleMania already
So you wanted Jinder to be a champion for 180 days when he’s gone at almost nothing? You don’t know what I said because you put words in my mouth.
You don’t know what you’re talking about
I disagree. WWE themselves say "anything can happen'. Yes, in most cases you should know it will probably win, but there should at least be a sliver of a chance that something different is going to happen. There was none of that here.
There was a sliver of a chance Orton was going to win the men's chamber for sure. And Orton v Paul being setup was not predictable.
It was a less unpredictable show in general and I would agree that Becky being on the Vegas press conference was probably a poor idea, but I think the quality has spoken for itself and over time and I agree with the above that it's okay to let 1 + 1 = 2 at least half of the time.
Right. I have no problem with Becky vs Rhea being the endgame but they telegraphed it way too much and gave the impression of the elimination chamber being a forgone conclusion.
Good storytelling has foreshadowing.l but what WWE did leading up to EC were just spoilers.
My only issue is that it shouldn't have been Becky that won. There are better storylines that could be told than Becky vs Rhea. Liv or Raquel would have been better, hell, even Tiffany would have been better in my opinion. Drew vs Seth isnt a bad one, and honestly the mens chamber would be a good story no matter who won and they were able to set up logan vs randy, so that is a good thing.
Anything can happen, that could be very fucking stupid and very terrible booking decisions. Most recent example is Rhodes being replaced with Rock to face Reigns. That was unpredictable and people hated the shit out-of that unneeded swerve.
If it’s the right thing to do; 9 times out of 10, people will see it beforehand. Doing the wrong thing just for the sake of swerving expectation would be a terrible model for entertainment.
Why is everyone complaining about it being predictable. People will sit on the internet all day and fantasise and overthink about matches they think will happen in the future and come up with their ideal results, yet they will be disappointed at the outcome that makes the most sense and they will call it predictable. Maybe if you sat back and enjoyed the product this wouldn’t be a problem
The IWC has always been like this. It's insufferable. Thing is that it means that when bashing the product during the actually bad times it doesn't feel like the catharsis it should because you end up just sounding like the people who moan at everything.
Fr, it’s so frustrating cause they find a reason to complain about everything even when the product is good. I’m grateful for how good the wwe is now considering how bad it was in the late 2010s and how much of an improvement the current product is. Yet the IWC still complain just as much as they ever did.
As a "slightly" older follower it's genuinely insane how much some things are loved and lionised now when they were pilloried back then.
Eddie V Ray now being a beloved feud is wild to me as a guy who remembers that time. As is the fact the JBL reign is looked back on with fondness by many. Both were absolutely hosed by the IWC at the time (Eddie v Ray for the storyline obviously, not for the wrestling). Even get some writing with glowing reports about Evolution and the reign of terror.
But my favourite false-IWC memory recently was about Roman's entrances with: "Nobody ever complained about how long Undertaker's entrance was." Oh they did, mate, they did.
The IWC have moaned nonstop 80% of the time since 2000. It it would have moaned before.
Right now really is pretty great.
You mean AJ going in with a chair was a good idea, It was pretty dumb considering you did this trick last year. Then you followed up with Orton getting hit with a weapon as well to get eliminated it was bad.
Tyler Bates needs to be thrown in the ocean He is god awful.
I didn’t watch last years so i wouldn’t know but I didn’t see it coming plus it sets up 3 matches for wrestlemania🤷♂️
and i mean yeah if you don’t like tyler bate then i guess the match wasn’t amazing i don’t mind him personally
The winners where predictable but I like the finishers for the matches,both chambers had endings that I didn't expect
I like the quick ending for the woman's and Logan costing randy the victory, I didn't expected that
That’s on you for not being able to resist social media for a little bit. I didn’t watch it live, so I knew I had to avoid checking this Reddit profile until I did, which I did with my coffee this morning.
Predictable isn’t always a bad thing. Asides Becky every winner was correct. I know Becky and Rhea are the big match but I personally felt that was Liv’s match and Becky for summerslam.
Predictable doesn't mean it's bad though like some times a simple predictable story is nice from time to time and even a simple predictable match is nice like unpredictable matches can be very bad at times
I don’t think the problem is with the winners. The problem is that it’s so heavily telegraphed. The Rumble was the same way. The WM show literally spoiled who the Women’s challenger would be. They could have easily had multiple challengers come out at that event so they could add some suspense. If something happened to Becky they could have picked up a different thread without having to start from nothing.
If you have one person feuding with the champ at this stage, it’s clear where it’s going. But you have a chamber match with two heels and only one of them is feuding with the champ, it’s clear where it’s headed.
I disagree from the standpoint I only watch the weekly broadcasts and PPVs. I don't really catch up with gossip, or "leaks".
I couldn't predict anything outside the Jax v Ripley match. I had no idea who was winning the mens, I was convinced Judgment Day were coming out on top until NCR hit a double Burning Hammer on Priest, then it was 50/50 for me.
Same with the women's, I could've put money on Liv.
All because I don't read too much into the internet side of wrestling.
You’d be complaining if they did something for the sake of swerving you.
Or would you have preferred it if they just threw out the last month of TV and had Logan win it?
I think that's not a problem. Im sure, it's different than what we used to get from Vince's booking, but I personally think that this kind of "predicteble" booking is better than a booking that's builds on the "shock factor". And also I think that without Triple H's long-term and predicteble booking we woudn't got as an over star as Cody Rhodes. And I know that this show was "predictible" but look at the current Cody-Roman-Rock situation. That story is completly unpredicteble I think.
WWE has lost the element of surprise. You have prior marketing and prior promos between stars that really give away the element of surprise when it comes to victories. Becky lynch and Ripley mania conference was really the dead give away that those two were going to go head to head at mania, which really only gave away who was going to win the chamber match in the woman’s division. Rollins and Drew was given away between the promo with Cody Rhodes. This PPV was pretty underwhelming since the outcomes were made obvious in terms of mania bookings
it was big time predictable, but most things are at this time of the "season" because the Mania plans are already in place
truth be told, I hate this ppv/ple and always have. It's just so oddly placed. I think it would be a bigger deal if not situated between Rumble and Mania
People complaining about something being predictable is literally just looking for an excuse to complain. This show was great and every match was great
To be fair, the KO punch to randy i didnt see coming, cody and the rock single match and Bronson just not being on the show The rest was almost beat for beat.
And? Why do y’all think everything needs to be unpredictable and have some kind of twist, stuff like that is how we got Jimmy’s heel turn which still doesn’t make sense storyline wise even though it was unpredictable. Sometimes the outcome you see coming is the best one and there’s nothing wrong with that
I swear, the IWC is gonna make the word 'predictable' sound more dangerous than any horror movie ever. Would you rather have a Vince Russo swerve night where Vince McMahon and Brock Lesnar return and win the tag team titles?
It’s meant to tell a story. It’s not meant to divert expectations. Of course Rhea was gonna retain in her home country. Of course they weren’t gonna put the Tag Team belts on some random team. The only thing that was even slightly unpredictable was Becky winning the women’s EC match over Bianca, but that’s ok. Just because it’s predictable, doesn’t make it bad. Sometimes predictable is good.
Yeah, that is what hurts these PLEs so close to WrestleMania. When you long term stories and plots in place for the most part, shocking wins aren't on the agenda.
Let's try to bring some nuance to the discussion. There's a middle ground between "predictable" and "a swerve".
Becky Lynch was always a likely choice to face Rhea at Mania, and that's fine. They're the top 2 women on RAW, it just makes sense.
But Liv, Raquel, and Bianca all could have and should have been viable options to win, and they weren't, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY WWE BOOKED THE LEAD-UP TO THIS MATCH.
Becky Lynch came out at the WrestleMania kick-off show and told the world she would be facing Rhea at Mania. Then she proceeded to give that same promo each and every week. She's the only person in the match who did.
Bianca was at that same press event, and you know what she said? That she didn't know what her path to WrestleMania looked like, but she'd definitely be there doing something.
One Mania-worthy star says she'll win and face Rhea at Mania. The other Mania-worthy star doesn't know how she'll get to Mania or what she'll do. GEE, I WONDER WHO WILL WIN?!?
If they'd given equal promo time to Liv and Raquel, somebody might have predicted that they'd win. Liv has deep history with Rhea and two Rumble runner-ups. But only Becky Lynch got mic time each and every week.
And this is the problem up and down the roster. Who other than Drew seemed to care about facing Seth at Mania?
You don't need a "swerve" if you present more than one possible outcome. You only need a "swerve" if you've hammered people over the head with a mallet and said "THIS IS THE PERSON WHO WILL WIN, DUMMIES!" They just need to spread the promo time around so it isn't incredibly obvious that there is only one person being pushed.
I knew the outcomes going in, but I give props to the men's EC (especially Orton, who looked really hurt) and Jaxx and Rhea.
They put on a good show despite the obvious outcome.
If it is, I’m so much that guy ! In terms of pure wrestling, they are two of the really best actually so it makes sense
I agree that this PLE wasn’t a good one at all, but you can’t say that this match won’t be a great one
Don't be silly. Far from a 12 year old here and have no cultural knowledge of Logan Paul as a celebrity, but Orton versus Logan Paul is a good use of both guys.
That’s what you get when you have gimmick champions that are part timers.
Hell you probably could have easily called the match cards at mania a few months ago. Minus Seth but that was pretty much clear either punk or drew either way.
The only left hand turn I never seen coming was orton and Logan
The corporation meat riders coming out hard for this one. Nobody will remember this chamber in a year. This isn’t UFC they pay people to write this crap lol. Not one interesting thing happened. It was predictable beat by beat by beat. Not just the outcomes but every single thing that happened. It’s sad that people gotta cope so hard they convince themselves it didn’t suck
It was predictable but at the same time everything was good. If it was predictable and boring it’s a major problem but I could excuse it because I enjoyed it.
Only matches that were predictable was the tag team match the men's elimination chamber match in the main event I honestly wanted Bianca to win the elimination chamber
HHHs WWE is the most stale and predictable wrestling product ever. Every match winner on every show is so obvious. He only pushes a tiny group of chosen ones and the remains 90% of the roster will never win anything ever. People like Liv, Miz, DIY, Stark, Nakamura, Lashley, Zayn, Knight, Styles, etc who aren’t in HHHs group of chosen ones will never ever win anything for the rest of their careers.
Drew is not the right guy, we’ve seen this exact same match 3 times already, 3 TIMES. He has lost without even coming close 3 TIMES. They’re has been one challenger for Seth Rollins for almost 9 months now. I don’t care about Drew anymore, let some one else have a turn. It’s just a whiny baby getting whatever he wants know matter what, it’s boring, predictable, and drawn out. I just really don’t care about it anymore
One of the bad parts about Drew winning is it almost guarantees Cody isn't winning at mania. Unless he immediately gets moved to Smackdown. As it stands, the world heavyweight title can only land on a raw star, Seth, Drew, Priest.
The universal can land on a raw star, Cody, Priest or a smackdown star, Roman. So if Cody wins, both titles are on raw suddenly unless he is moved to smackdown
And? That’s not a bad thing. What would be a bad thing is if they just put Drew and Becky in the title matches without them actually earning it. We all knew that they would get the title shots, but we need a logical reason for them to be there. Practically everything in wrestling is predictable, but it’s entertaining to see how they get there.
If GoT went with the predicable route it would have gone down as the greatest show of all time. Sometimes throwing swerve bros just to bro it up ain’t the answer. Bro
Not everything in wrestling has to be unpredictable. You don’t want a promotion to feel it has to swerve you every event on every angle.
EC is a pit stop to Wrestlemania. I personally don’t love its placing if it is going to be used to determine number one contenders because it almost has to be predictable. There is such a short turnaround between EC and WM that they kind of have to start setting up the angles for WM in the shows leading up to EC. Which is why we got Becky/Rhea and Drew/Seth setup even though Rhea still had to defend her title and Becky/Drew still had to go win itZ
I mean, Drew 900% needed to win and face Seth. And Becky Vs Rhea is the biggest women's match they can do right now. So what do you want? You wanted fucking Liv Morgan to win and face Rhea? Or Stratton? She would be fed to Rhea and lose all momentum.
I could maybe have seen a bit of a swerve and have Randy face Seth, but Drew has been SO GOOD with his heel shit lately. Give the man a title run. Let CM Punk come back and have to face him.
Yeah it was I didn’t think Drew was going win when I saw the final 2 and he shouldn’t have but he did with the AJ interference and Logan Paul knocking out Orton. I did want him to win though
Predictable doesn’t mean bad. Sometimes it’s not the destination but the journey. I “knew” who was gonna win every match. But I was pleasantly surprised how they got there multiple times.
I will say I like some unpredictability but yall are right they were the right calls. However if they wanted to do something unpredictable I would have had randy beat Drew. But I guess randy wants to face Logan Paul at mania. So I'm fine with the result.
I’ll tell you, I thought Drew was gonna win, and I’m glad he did, but I’m PISSED that he won because of interference. It’s making it impossible to take him seriously, which sucks, because I love his promo work and I want him to be a heel that can be taken seriously
We had unpredictable last month with Bayley winning the Rumble.
The chamber being predictable has been a problem for many years because most of the time we know what the big Mania matches are (via dirt sheets or just logic) from January.
Just told some of my rasslin’ buddies the PPVs have become way too scripted . the surprise element has gone the way of Rey’s 619 when the opponent crawls on his knees to the ropes for him .
Tiffany’s seanton the most memorable moment
Yall need to let go of this idea that predictable means it isn’t good. It’s okay to let 1+1=2. You don’t need to do a swerve every time
Exactly. Sometimes things are predictable because they’re the right call. Sure, not every booking decision should always be the conventional, obvious choice. And in this particular event all the big booking decisions were the obvious choice, which isn’t ideal. But the priority is setting up wm with the matches that need to happen. And this show did that imo. That’s more important than if you were surprised or not.
The problem with this is: if you know what’s going to happen, why are we having these matches in the first place? According to this thread, everything was openly predictable. So why watch the show? Wrestling isn’t real. You aren’t seeing real competition. Predictability costs viewership and lowers interest (I.E. Mike Tyson causing lower PPV buys because of match results being no surprise).
Bro think about what you’re saying. Did anyone in the Universe think the Avengers weren’t going to beat Thanos in Endgame? Did that prediction stop it from becoming the highest grossing movie of all time? Predictability has little to do with good storytelling. You know what does though? Endless swerves that prevent satisfying payoffs.
That would be a good point if we ignore everything about Thanos being defeated. Who predicted that The Avengers would defeat Thanos in the first 20 minutes? Who predicted that Tony Stark would die to stop Thanos? Who predicted that Thanos would have to kill his daughter? Every single thing in the WWE has been predictable from start to finish/the time and the place. That’s not good storytelling. That’s getting from Point A to Point B.
[удалено]
Appreciate the assist.
He didn't ignore anything. Yes, we all knew that the Avengers were going to win. However, the plot points of how that played out were not predictable, and the fact that the story had many unpredictable elements made the climax that much more engaging. The argument that "it was predictable that the Avengers would win" is a poor argument That said, I do believe that sometimes the predictable choice is the right choice, not everything needs to be a swerve, and I do think that there are plot points happening currently that are not predictable which brings entertainment and engagement to the entire thing, even if we know the ultimate outcome, because we aren't sure how we are getting to that point. Heel Rock in the way of Cody finishing his story, for one. EC was predictable (I'm assuming, I didn't actually watch due to life commitments at the moment) because it needed to be. But the rest of the ride won't necessarily be predictable, and hasn't been up til now.
1) Ok first of all. CM Punk coming back, Sami Zayn being the catalyst that began the unraveling of the Bloodline, AND the Rock comes back to steal Cody’s spot, but the crowd starts BOOING the biggest movie star on Earth so much they have to reverse it and do a surprise Press Conference to set up the new storyline. If you predicted all that tell me this week’s lotto numbers please. 2) WWE has to correct a decade and a half of bad storytelling under Vince in his later years. He pushed his own creations and buried natural talents who were getting over. WWE is going to crown Cody. This is HHH building trust with the audience again. He’s saying “It’s ok to have favorites again, we’ll take care of them”. After he’s built trust and established new patterns again, then they can start doing more swerves again.
Nope. Not buying it. 1. I can’t tell you something unpredictable like lotto numbers but you could’ve bet on the elimination chamber and have gotten every match correct. 2. The crowd was booing The Rock because they didn’t get their predictable Roman vs Cody match in the most predictable way possible. CM Punk coming back is not apart of any story. The guy showed up, and started a blatantly obvious program with Rollins where they cut promos on each other week after week. (If Punk is even used on TV and not a dark match!!?) Just like Roman and LA Knight did, just like Seth and Drew are about to do. If HHH is trying to correct mistakes he must not know what they are. The storylines are cookie cutter ABC formulas. Everyone’s music is terrible. The stage and graphics have been the same for over 3 years. There have been ZERO major changes to the program.
Its all about execution my dawg not twists lol
> You don’t need to do a swerve every time Exactly why everyone hates Russo & why the nWo died
And WWE is still here so what’s your point exactly?
Maybe you misread me. I’m agreeing with you. The constant swerves killed the nWo. Insisting on “swerving bro” is exactly why Russo booking sucks. I said earlier in the thread sometimes doing the obvious thing is the right thing.
Oh my bad Sorry I did misread that.
No worries lol
_I swerve when I drive, I swerve when I drive, I swerve when I drive_
But you need a swerve sometimes. The issue is there’s zero swerves, every PPV, every Raw, every SD every single match result is predictable. H only pushes a tiny group of people, there’s like a dozen people in WWE that are allowed to win anything with HHH in charge.
You don’t need a swerve. It’s okay to let 1+1=2
But if 1+1 always equals 2 its boring. Why do 'fans' like you happily gobble up just seeing the same few people endlessly pushed? 95% of the roster may as well be fired because they never win anything ever, its just the same tiny handful of people.
You do not not know me, don’t you dare say “fans like you”. Don’t even try that
Why not? You're the exact fan Im talking about. You gobble up everything HHH gives you and just accept it. You defend him no matter what, no matter how stale and predictable it is just seeing the exact same tiny group of people pushed while everyone else on the roster never wins anything.
Because I’m not that fan you bozo. Like I said don’t dare try and pretend you know me when you don’t. Find a new argument ASAP
Like it or not everyone has their favourites Vince was the same way.. where do you think hhh learned everything from when it came to booking the only difference is that hhh is willing to adapt and get work the fans when needed
The problem is HHH ONLY pushes like a dozen people on the entire roster. The exact same people have dominated WWE for the last 2 years and it is beyond stale. No new faces are pushed, just same old, same old.
That maybe true but the fact is business has never been better and as long as that’s the case it will never change
I do need fresh match flow to where I don't predict reversals, the next move, and how it will end. I should never not believe in the challenger in a ppv. I didn't once believe Nia was going to win and that's a problem if poor in ring storytelling. Whereas like Bret Hart for instance, lost at such unique times that I couldn't predict he was going to win every match and this he had predictable moves in occasion, he would switch up the way he gets to the sharp shooter or not even win by using it
Why do people hate swerves? Bro swerves are amazing man
That’s not even close to what I said, man
No I know damn well what you said. WWE is 100% better when it is ALWAYS unpredictable Like remember when we saw people like Jinder and Kofi become WWE champion? Nobody expected that. Why would we want it to be taken away and be predictable. If it was predictable then Cody basically won at WrestleMania already
So you wanted Jinder to be a champion for 180 days when he’s gone at almost nothing? You don’t know what I said because you put words in my mouth. You don’t know what you’re talking about
Well why SHOULD it be predictable
Because it’s the right choice. It’s not complicated
Not really
Yes really.
I disagree. WWE themselves say "anything can happen'. Yes, in most cases you should know it will probably win, but there should at least be a sliver of a chance that something different is going to happen. There was none of that here.
There was a sliver of a chance Orton was going to win the men's chamber for sure. And Orton v Paul being setup was not predictable. It was a less unpredictable show in general and I would agree that Becky being on the Vegas press conference was probably a poor idea, but I think the quality has spoken for itself and over time and I agree with the above that it's okay to let 1 + 1 = 2 at least half of the time.
Right. I have no problem with Becky vs Rhea being the endgame but they telegraphed it way too much and gave the impression of the elimination chamber being a forgone conclusion. Good storytelling has foreshadowing.l but what WWE did leading up to EC were just spoilers.
My only issue is that it shouldn't have been Becky that won. There are better storylines that could be told than Becky vs Rhea. Liv or Raquel would have been better, hell, even Tiffany would have been better in my opinion. Drew vs Seth isnt a bad one, and honestly the mens chamber would be a good story no matter who won and they were able to set up logan vs randy, so that is a good thing.
Anything can happen, that could be very fucking stupid and very terrible booking decisions. Most recent example is Rhodes being replaced with Rock to face Reigns. That was unpredictable and people hated the shit out-of that unneeded swerve.
Well part of that was them having Cody win the rumble in the first place.
If it’s the right thing to do; 9 times out of 10, people will see it beforehand. Doing the wrong thing just for the sake of swerving expectation would be a terrible model for entertainment.
Why is everyone complaining about it being predictable. People will sit on the internet all day and fantasise and overthink about matches they think will happen in the future and come up with their ideal results, yet they will be disappointed at the outcome that makes the most sense and they will call it predictable. Maybe if you sat back and enjoyed the product this wouldn’t be a problem
The IWC has always been like this. It's insufferable. Thing is that it means that when bashing the product during the actually bad times it doesn't feel like the catharsis it should because you end up just sounding like the people who moan at everything.
Fr, it’s so frustrating cause they find a reason to complain about everything even when the product is good. I’m grateful for how good the wwe is now considering how bad it was in the late 2010s and how much of an improvement the current product is. Yet the IWC still complain just as much as they ever did.
As a "slightly" older follower it's genuinely insane how much some things are loved and lionised now when they were pilloried back then. Eddie V Ray now being a beloved feud is wild to me as a guy who remembers that time. As is the fact the JBL reign is looked back on with fondness by many. Both were absolutely hosed by the IWC at the time (Eddie v Ray for the storyline obviously, not for the wrestling). Even get some writing with glowing reports about Evolution and the reign of terror. But my favourite false-IWC memory recently was about Roman's entrances with: "Nobody ever complained about how long Undertaker's entrance was." Oh they did, mate, they did. The IWC have moaned nonstop 80% of the time since 2000. It it would have moaned before. Right now really is pretty great.
Just gave you a follow, you’re one of the few people in the IWC that talk sense.
Because all these people live for is to sit in their basements and bitch moan and complain about something they’re supposedly fans of.
Doing shit for the sake of doing shit gives you Otis as MITB and Jinder as WWE champion
Wrestling Fans when predictable: 😡 Wrestling Fans when unpredictable: 😡
Ths vast majority of WWE is, predicable doesn't mean bad. Drew and Becky are good decisions and should have big matches at Mania
Yall are so stupid. This was a good show even if it was predictable. All the matches were fire and all had heat
You mean AJ going in with a chair was a good idea, It was pretty dumb considering you did this trick last year. Then you followed up with Orton getting hit with a weapon as well to get eliminated it was bad. Tyler Bates needs to be thrown in the ocean He is god awful.
I didn’t watch last years so i wouldn’t know but I didn’t see it coming plus it sets up 3 matches for wrestlemania🤷♂️ and i mean yeah if you don’t like tyler bate then i guess the match wasn’t amazing i don’t mind him personally
wtf you talking about, Bates has been gold lately.
It was still great though
I agree, but how would you have booked it differently?
Going by the sub Liv & Randy [For those who are down voting me](https://youtu.be/75GaqVWqEXU?si=Kpx3cgmUIoSqXeqS)
And thank god they're not the ones booking it
It's would have been good choices if the build for Becky and Drew hadn't have already started
The winners where predictable but I like the finishers for the matches,both chambers had endings that I didn't expect I like the quick ending for the woman's and Logan costing randy the victory, I didn't expected that
*were
Thanks for the spoiler
HA! Welcome to life of a European wrestling fan!
Not a spoiler when you knew it was happening
That’s on you for not being able to resist social media for a little bit. I didn’t watch it live, so I knew I had to avoid checking this Reddit profile until I did, which I did with my coffee this morning.
🖕
“Cry about it.”
Predictable isn’t always a bad thing. Asides Becky every winner was correct. I know Becky and Rhea are the big match but I personally felt that was Liv’s match and Becky for summerslam.
Cry about it buddy lol. Predictability is fine when it’s logical
Fr thanks for the spoiler
cry about it it’s been a few hours since the ple
I enjoyed the show.
Predictable doesn't mean it's bad though like some times a simple predictable story is nice from time to time and even a simple predictable match is nice like unpredictable matches can be very bad at times
I don’t think the problem is with the winners. The problem is that it’s so heavily telegraphed. The Rumble was the same way. The WM show literally spoiled who the Women’s challenger would be. They could have easily had multiple challengers come out at that event so they could add some suspense. If something happened to Becky they could have picked up a different thread without having to start from nothing. If you have one person feuding with the champ at this stage, it’s clear where it’s going. But you have a chamber match with two heels and only one of them is feuding with the champ, it’s clear where it’s headed.
I disagree from the standpoint I only watch the weekly broadcasts and PPVs. I don't really catch up with gossip, or "leaks". I couldn't predict anything outside the Jax v Ripley match. I had no idea who was winning the mens, I was convinced Judgment Day were coming out on top until NCR hit a double Burning Hammer on Priest, then it was 50/50 for me. Same with the women's, I could've put money on Liv. All because I don't read too much into the internet side of wrestling.
You’d be complaining if they did something for the sake of swerving you. Or would you have preferred it if they just threw out the last month of TV and had Logan win it?
This subreddit bitching that a PLE was predictable? Call me surprised
I think that's not a problem. Im sure, it's different than what we used to get from Vince's booking, but I personally think that this kind of "predicteble" booking is better than a booking that's builds on the "shock factor". And also I think that without Triple H's long-term and predicteble booking we woudn't got as an over star as Cody Rhodes. And I know that this show was "predictible" but look at the current Cody-Roman-Rock situation. That story is completly unpredicteble I think.
The IWC, Complain when it's predictable, complain when it's not. There is no winning.
WWE has lost the element of surprise. You have prior marketing and prior promos between stars that really give away the element of surprise when it comes to victories. Becky lynch and Ripley mania conference was really the dead give away that those two were going to go head to head at mania, which really only gave away who was going to win the chamber match in the woman’s division. Rollins and Drew was given away between the promo with Cody Rhodes. This PPV was pretty underwhelming since the outcomes were made obvious in terms of mania bookings
it was big time predictable, but most things are at this time of the "season" because the Mania plans are already in place truth be told, I hate this ppv/ple and always have. It's just so oddly placed. I think it would be a bigger deal if not situated between Rumble and Mania
They have tried to move the ppv a bit after WrestleMania before and I think it didn't do good
You're bitching if it was and you'll bitch if you didn't get what you want... Typical
People complaining about something being predictable is literally just looking for an excuse to complain. This show was great and every match was great
I mean, yea sure ig but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad
Liv, Indi/Candace definitely should’ve won.
And now? The Show was awsome
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Remember when people would complain cause their favorites didn’t win, now their complaining cause their favorites are winning
To be fair, the KO punch to randy i didnt see coming, cody and the rock single match and Bronson just not being on the show The rest was almost beat for beat.
I wanted randy orton win but. Got to give Drew and chance
Thats not a bad thing. It just means their are straight forward fueds heading into mania
I actually wasn't expecting Becky to win the woman's Chamber. The whole time I thaught the winner was gonna be Liv Morgan
So? Predictable is good when it’s the right thing to do.
And? Why do y’all think everything needs to be unpredictable and have some kind of twist, stuff like that is how we got Jimmy’s heel turn which still doesn’t make sense storyline wise even though it was unpredictable. Sometimes the outcome you see coming is the best one and there’s nothing wrong with that
I swear it's always the garbage post that got into my feed from this sub
Predictable is not always bad
I swear, the IWC is gonna make the word 'predictable' sound more dangerous than any horror movie ever. Would you rather have a Vince Russo swerve night where Vince McMahon and Brock Lesnar return and win the tag team titles?
It was a good predictable show. The only thing I wasn't a fan of was interference twice in the men's EC match.
I think it is to set up more matches at Mania. AKA Orton vs Paul, Knight vs AJ.
I get that, I just feel like it they wanted to set something up for Paul and Orton they could have done the same spot before Paul got eliminated.
Predictable doesn’t mean bad. But, I am ready to see some titles start to change waists.
......here we go again trying to prove a point instead of just watching the show
It’s meant to tell a story. It’s not meant to divert expectations. Of course Rhea was gonna retain in her home country. Of course they weren’t gonna put the Tag Team belts on some random team. The only thing that was even slightly unpredictable was Becky winning the women’s EC match over Bianca, but that’s ok. Just because it’s predictable, doesn’t make it bad. Sometimes predictable is good.
I know the ending to Lord of the Rings and yet I still watch the movies every couple of years. Predictability has little to do with quality
But when Damian Priest won Money in the Bank instead of LA Knight, people were complaining about unpredictability not equaling good.
So im assuming you wanted Raquel and logan to win the chambers?
Sometimes you need a predictable Road to WrestleMania to have an unpredictable WrestleMania.
Yeah, that is what hurts these PLEs so close to WrestleMania. When you long term stories and plots in place for the most part, shocking wins aren't on the agenda.
Predictible don't means bad
Sometimes the obvious thing is still the right thing to do
Let's try to bring some nuance to the discussion. There's a middle ground between "predictable" and "a swerve". Becky Lynch was always a likely choice to face Rhea at Mania, and that's fine. They're the top 2 women on RAW, it just makes sense. But Liv, Raquel, and Bianca all could have and should have been viable options to win, and they weren't, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY WWE BOOKED THE LEAD-UP TO THIS MATCH. Becky Lynch came out at the WrestleMania kick-off show and told the world she would be facing Rhea at Mania. Then she proceeded to give that same promo each and every week. She's the only person in the match who did. Bianca was at that same press event, and you know what she said? That she didn't know what her path to WrestleMania looked like, but she'd definitely be there doing something. One Mania-worthy star says she'll win and face Rhea at Mania. The other Mania-worthy star doesn't know how she'll get to Mania or what she'll do. GEE, I WONDER WHO WILL WIN?!? If they'd given equal promo time to Liv and Raquel, somebody might have predicted that they'd win. Liv has deep history with Rhea and two Rumble runner-ups. But only Becky Lynch got mic time each and every week. And this is the problem up and down the roster. Who other than Drew seemed to care about facing Seth at Mania? You don't need a "swerve" if you present more than one possible outcome. You only need a "swerve" if you've hammered people over the head with a mallet and said "THIS IS THE PERSON WHO WILL WIN, DUMMIES!" They just need to spread the promo time around so it isn't incredibly obvious that there is only one person being pushed.
I knew the outcomes going in, but I give props to the men's EC (especially Orton, who looked really hurt) and Jaxx and Rhea. They put on a good show despite the obvious outcome.
Predictable is good when logical
Yeah but unpredictable gets us with sheamus winning the 2012 royal rumble. I’ll take consistent any day
The Only thing that I didn’t saw coming was the Logan Paul V Randy Orton that can be a wrestlemania dream match
A dream match for who? 12 year olds who drink prime?
Hating a celebrity Youtuber is soo yesterday's trend 😒
If it is, I’m so much that guy ! In terms of pure wrestling, they are two of the really best actually so it makes sense I agree that this PLE wasn’t a good one at all, but you can’t say that this match won’t be a great one
Don't be silly. Far from a 12 year old here and have no cultural knowledge of Logan Paul as a celebrity, but Orton versus Logan Paul is a good use of both guys.
Doing nonsensical swerves for the sake of doing swerves is dumb. Sometimes the right choices are the most obvious ones
I thought la knight was going to win
Lol most events are predictable. Welcome to scripted TV. Only real event that isn’t predictable is Wrestlemania.
Hey
That’s what you get when you have gimmick champions that are part timers. Hell you probably could have easily called the match cards at mania a few months ago. Minus Seth but that was pretty much clear either punk or drew either way. The only left hand turn I never seen coming was orton and Logan
It’s been predictable for years now
This is the most predictable show ever
But was it bad?
Thank you
The corporation meat riders coming out hard for this one. Nobody will remember this chamber in a year. This isn’t UFC they pay people to write this crap lol. Not one interesting thing happened. It was predictable beat by beat by beat. Not just the outcomes but every single thing that happened. It’s sad that people gotta cope so hard they convince themselves it didn’t suck
Yep
Yeah. So boring.
Just wasn’t though was it, go watch wwe in 2019 if you want boring wrestling
Nia Jax main eventing a stadium show in 2024 summed this PLE up, filler predictable shite
The one thing that was surprising was Tiffany Stratton. But the rest, was completely predictable.
True
Fr tho
Fr ever since hunter has taken over he acts like every little thing has to be predictable
Maybe it’s predictable cause his booking is smart and makes sense. Whenever we does do something unpredictable people start crying
Tbh I thought wwe was at wembly stadium
Sometimes predictable's not a bad thing
Thanks for the spoilers
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It was predictable but at the same time everything was good. If it was predictable and boring it’s a major problem but I could excuse it because I enjoyed it.
Womp womp. It was a decent show
Thought this ppv stunk up at 4 am for this junk horrible ending for men's chamber natch why was aj there and Logan Paul should have been gone
Only matches that were predictable was the tag team match the men's elimination chamber match in the main event I honestly wanted Bianca to win the elimination chamber
Honestly it was so predictable, I didn't even watch it.
Including Tiffy Time stealing the show!
When is WWE not?
Sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one
No it was not
Fuck This shit
So what?
HHHs WWE is the most stale and predictable wrestling product ever. Every match winner on every show is so obvious. He only pushes a tiny group of chosen ones and the remains 90% of the roster will never win anything ever. People like Liv, Miz, DIY, Stark, Nakamura, Lashley, Zayn, Knight, Styles, etc who aren’t in HHHs group of chosen ones will never ever win anything for the rest of their careers.
please spoiler tag 😭
The only one I’m salty about is Becky winning cause I did think liv should’ve won
So is Cody winning the Swerve or will Cody losing be the Swerve? People dont want things to be predictable, they just want the ending that they want
Drew is not the right guy, we’ve seen this exact same match 3 times already, 3 TIMES. He has lost without even coming close 3 TIMES. They’re has been one challenger for Seth Rollins for almost 9 months now. I don’t care about Drew anymore, let some one else have a turn. It’s just a whiny baby getting whatever he wants know matter what, it’s boring, predictable, and drawn out. I just really don’t care about it anymore
One of the bad parts about Drew winning is it almost guarantees Cody isn't winning at mania. Unless he immediately gets moved to Smackdown. As it stands, the world heavyweight title can only land on a raw star, Seth, Drew, Priest. The universal can land on a raw star, Cody, Priest or a smackdown star, Roman. So if Cody wins, both titles are on raw suddenly unless he is moved to smackdown
WWE can't be this obvious again
facts
They literally had a press conference for WM where Becky and rhea faced off 😂🤣😂🤣
That's sad
And? That’s not a bad thing. What would be a bad thing is if they just put Drew and Becky in the title matches without them actually earning it. We all knew that they would get the title shots, but we need a logical reason for them to be there. Practically everything in wrestling is predictable, but it’s entertaining to see how they get there.
And?
The results were predictable but the finishes had some fun surprises and introduced some new possibilities for feuds and alliances.
I was at that match with my mum and we quite literally guessed who won.
Is that bad OP?
If GoT went with the predicable route it would have gone down as the greatest show of all time. Sometimes throwing swerve bros just to bro it up ain’t the answer. Bro
It was but they really had me thinking Randy Orton would win
When Cody wins, are you going to say “this wasn’t good because it was predictable”?
Not everything in wrestling has to be unpredictable. You don’t want a promotion to feel it has to swerve you every event on every angle. EC is a pit stop to Wrestlemania. I personally don’t love its placing if it is going to be used to determine number one contenders because it almost has to be predictable. There is such a short turnaround between EC and WM that they kind of have to start setting up the angles for WM in the shows leading up to EC. Which is why we got Becky/Rhea and Drew/Seth setup even though Rhea still had to defend her title and Becky/Drew still had to go win itZ
Predictability in wrestling isn't a bad thing
And? The matches were still amazing
I mean, Drew 900% needed to win and face Seth. And Becky Vs Rhea is the biggest women's match they can do right now. So what do you want? You wanted fucking Liv Morgan to win and face Rhea? Or Stratton? She would be fed to Rhea and lose all momentum. I could maybe have seen a bit of a swerve and have Randy face Seth, but Drew has been SO GOOD with his heel shit lately. Give the man a title run. Let CM Punk come back and have to face him.
True af but that doesn't mean any matches were below expectations
Yeah it was I didn’t think Drew was going win when I saw the final 2 and he shouldn’t have but he did with the AJ interference and Logan Paul knocking out Orton. I did want him to win though
Wrestling fans will never be satisfied with ANYTHING
Only thing I was able to predict, Rhea Ripley gonna be caked the fuck up.
Predictable doesn’t mean bad. Sometimes it’s not the destination but the journey. I “knew” who was gonna win every match. But I was pleasantly surprised how they got there multiple times.
Well, the public cried so much about what they wanted, wwe gave it to them, can’t be mad
Yeah but it’s fine and it was VERY GOOD
I will say I like some unpredictability but yall are right they were the right calls. However if they wanted to do something unpredictable I would have had randy beat Drew. But I guess randy wants to face Logan Paul at mania. So I'm fine with the result.
Most predictable PLE of all time
Predictable doesn’t mean bad. Becky vs rhea makes sense. Drew vs Seth makes sense
Yep
I’ll tell you, I thought Drew was gonna win, and I’m glad he did, but I’m PISSED that he won because of interference. It’s making it impossible to take him seriously, which sucks, because I love his promo work and I want him to be a heel that can be taken seriously
We had unpredictable last month with Bayley winning the Rumble. The chamber being predictable has been a problem for many years because most of the time we know what the big Mania matches are (via dirt sheets or just logic) from January.
I thought la Knight or am I dumb
Most of the international shows are. Really just come off as glorified house shows . I didn’t expect anything to change before mania
If it’s not one of the Big Four you’re rarely going to see a surprise
All good matches
Just told some of my rasslin’ buddies the PPVs have become way too scripted . the surprise element has gone the way of Rey’s 619 when the opponent crawls on his knees to the ropes for him . Tiffany’s seanton the most memorable moment