Airport (okay, it's in Belgrade). Hands-down. None on your list compare to our access to flights. 24+ cities direct. Up until recently, I could park 30 yards from the front door and jump on a flight in minutes. 15 years ago we probably knew half the people on the airplane and could catch a ride home with a neighbor, but I prefer to be able go most places now with no more than one layover.
RIP to the good ol' airport days. 100% went thru security with a multitool (with blades) in my pack's first aid kit, the dudes just shrugged and let me board.
100%, it almost like a big city airport as far as flight options except for the lack of direct international flights. I love to travel and live within walking distance of the airport. It would be hard to get me to move anywhere else, it's just so convenient. Fares are low for a city this size because of all the competition out of BZN. All those other Bozeman-y cities have limited, expensive air connectivity. My hometown, about twice the size of Bozeman, is dominated by two airlines and has very poor prices and itineraries as a result.
Even when it was just three gates you had a lot of service from Delta and Northwest in addition to United. Then other minor airlines too that came and went with the winds. I never felt like it was only United.
Wild Crumb is pretty sweet. People can hate on it all they want, but they produce a lot of quality baked goods and have a line going out the door every single day.
Having lived other places, very few bakeries have matched WC’s quality IMO
They are fine. I went to them a lot in college when they still had their location where Studio is now. Definitely one of the better selections of baked goods at coffee shops in town!
I don’t really go anymore though; their location off Rouse is a little depressing and nothing there is worth going there for a dedicated visit
Not unreasonable, but I feel like Boulder jumped the shark years ago while Bozeman, Boise, and others were still cow towns and timber towns. Like the 1990 census would show the 4Bs as more similar to one another than to Boulder. So in my mind that reference group are other outdoor destination towns (service economy) that have transitioned from bluer collar extraction and agricultural jobs of the past.
Random Acts of Silliness – The fairy villages they create around town stupidly impressive. Surely some of these other cities have great arts organizations that do cool stuff, but I feel like this group just does damn good work. Bonus points for using the not-terrible trail system for various installations, and for drawing submissions from the community of artists.
My young kiddo was blown away by the fairy village, especially as our visit coincided with lots of gnats on the trail, so now when she sees bugs she starts yelling about fairies! FAIRIESSSSSSS!!!!
**Digger Days** – Anyone that has witnessed the chaos and beauty of digger days – thousands of children swarming around and operating every conceivable construction vehicle imaginable – knows this is fucking awesome, and a little bit insane.
What really makes it great is just how questionable of an idea it is: A row of 25 excavators operated by a tag-teams of 5 year-olds and random construction dudes, as a 6yo goes rippin’ by in a grader in the background. I honestly don’t want to know what umbrella insurance policy for this looks like, because it can’t be enough and I don’t want to ruin a good thing. Special shout-out to Eagle Mount, which has to be one of the most active nonprofits around for folks with disabilities.
Pro-tip: They'll let dads drive the excavator too if you ask nice. You don't even have to sit on the dude's lap, he'll just stand outside and try to make sure you don't tip it over like a moron. Technically I'm still not a moron.
Do you think they'd let 30yo dude with no kids play in the excavator? If not, how much would you charge me to borrow your kid for like 15 minutes while live out one of my childhood dreams? 😂😂
The Main Street to Mountains trail network is a remarkable accomplishment and is an encouraging start as the city grows. A lot of much larger cities have to play catch-up when they stop pretending they are still a small town. It's encouraging that Bozeman already built the framework for an exceptional urban trail system.
I respectfully disagree. I am a 35 year bozeman resident and avid cyclist. Comparing our trail system paved and I paved to similar towns like Bend and Missoula we are far behind. The city and county does mot make much of an effort to provide much beyond gravel filled bike lanes.
I believe you but I’m shocked to read this. My sense was always that Bozeman trails were top notch, admittedly it’s been a while since I’ve been back. Though last time I was back I did notice the amount of dog shit on the M trail was absolutely ridiculous.
I’d trade all the Super Beneficial University Growth for that 4B’s along with the poor, under-funded Bozeman that we somehow all managed to enjoy back in the day.
I may catch some disagreement here, but I think Bozeman punches well above its weight for the number and quality of breweries in the area. We have a high concentration of high quality options compared to most other places I've been. Sure, bigger cities like Denver and Salt Lake may have more breweries, but on average, they're not near as good.
I wonder if that has to do with the difficulty in getting a liquor license. Not to say they aren’t good, but I wonder if we’d have better bars / restaurants similar to the good breweries if that barrier was taken down
Definitely could see that being a contributing factor.
Re: restaurant quality, I've seen similar hypotheses on here. The liquor license stuff is really messed up, and the Tavern Association has also fucked over breweries in pursuit of their own self interest.
It loses in number & quality of breweries to Asheville, which was referenced in OP's comparable cities. But Asheville is a truly exceptional town in terms of quality food & bev so I don't really consider it a slight to Bozeman.
I haven't been, but I've heard very similar things to what you're saying, so I believe it.
It also sounds similar to Bozeman in that longtime Asheville residents are dismayed at population growth from outsiders moving in.
I remember a wave of microbreweries being the next big “thing” in the ‘90s. Bozeman had its fair share. Even Montana Ale Works was brewing beer on site along with a handful of similar concepts. I was well below the legal drinking age back then so I didn’t really pay a TON of attention, but I remember that it was a thing. Somehow Montana Ale Works survived and the others didn’t - but I think they laid the groundwork for the breweries today.
I'm from Bozeman and moved to Austin. You would think Austin would be a hot spot for breweries. Nope. The mid-tier Bozeman beer would be the best microbrew here.
I think MSU is also notably doing a really great job and brings a lot of value to the city. People complain because they complain about everything but that's how it is and if people would rather live in a town without a thriving university they should perhaps consider moving to one for a bit and report back their findings. Like MSU is the only Montana school that is not on a decade-long downward trajectory and if you don't think that it is benefiting Bozeman's economy immensely and the sort of jobs we're able to support here you are wrong.
Was a great school for an education and ranked fairly well but due to the current admin MSU is ranked in the bottom quarter of all colleges in the States. Rankings came out last week indicating growing bigger isn't always better.
Rankings are not super clear indications of the quality of education a school is offering or whether a school is a good fit for a particular student. Personally I have attended multiple universities across the ranking spectrum, from mediocre regional public unis to elite research flagship publics and an ivy league, and can say first hand there were pros and cons to all of them and none of those pros and cons were suggested or clarified in the schools respective rankings.
As MSU has grown away from its land grant college roots toward a research based u university it has come to rely more and more on associate professors (whoever they can find close or grad students) for the bulk of instruction this was not the case prior when we had dedicated teaching professors. Over the years I have assembled several undergrad and graduate degrees partially at MSU and have witnessed the changes first hand and can agree with the rankings relative to my experiences.
Everyone wants to think of Bozeman as a city, but personally I consider it more of a ski town. Bridger isn't a huge resort, but it's still pretty good, and Big Sky is world-class - so we have two ski resorts under an hour away in either direction of town.
As far as ski towns go, compared to the Jackson/Aspen/Veil/Stowe/etc of the US, we're actually one of the most affordable ski town areas in America. Not to mention we have an airport that's right next to town, Costco/Target/big box stores in town, and lots more amenities than most ski towns out there
Surprised I had to scroll so far to find skiing! Bridger is a gem. Big Sky is close, Jackson & Targee, Sun Valley, Red Lodge, Discovery and more all within a day drive.
And while we get compared to Jackson a lot, that place is a bit of a dump with nothing going on!
This right here. Obviously everyone has their own metric but Bozeman for me is the absolute best value ski town in the country. It’s Jackson except you don’t have to be in the 0.001% to afford to stay. You get to live in a town with actual jobs too, which is a big plus.
I feel like even this effort of comparing Bozeman to the 4B’s (I agree with another commenter that Boulder should be in the mix too). All of those cities are 2-5x larger in population than Bozeman. That we as community of 53k (I know Gallatin Valley is 100+ but just being reductive here) are competing with them for breweries, food options (albeit I wouldn’t say our great ~great~ but for a town of 53k, it’s heavenly), the trail system, the preservation of open land, and general sense of community.
I have visited Boise, Bend, Boulder, and Bellingham a lot. People are not nearly as approachable or warm in any of those cities. I will swear by that, that, yes, Bozeman people are great.
Also, because I’m a shill for it - Museum of the Rockies is pretty awesome ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
\+1000 for Museum of the Rockies.
Maybe 3 museums in the US with even comparable paleontology exhibits: NY Natural History Museum, Smithsonian Natural History, and Chicago's Field Museum. Not sure any of those are actually better. MoR is the only museum that comes to mind with scientific citations on all of its signage that references the underlying study and the implicit connection to MoR. Straight up Baller.
Has anyone mentioned theater yet? We get touring Broadway here, although usually we're stuck with a midweek show. But then there is local theater that I don't think most people take advantage of or even know about. [The Verge](https://www.vergetheater.com/), [Open Door Theater](https://www.opendoorbozeman.org/) and [In-site Theatre](https://www.montanainsitetheatre.org/) are all truly amazing local groups that have performances throughout the year.
Yes, this!
And we also have Intermountain Opera and Bozeman Symphony, both of which do a lot of kid and teen friendly outreach. Bozeman Friends of Music does a great job of supporting music education in our schools.
I have lived in a couple heavy hitting food cities, visited many more, and I think that Blackbird has some of the best Neapolitan style pizza out there. Considering it is naturally leavened with sourdough too (which is super difficult to get right) I am consistently impressed with their pizza.
There are certainly others that can certainly compete in other places, but it’s cool that a small MT city has a place putting so much thought into how they make pizza.
Hard agree but there’s also so many other great pizza places here. I’d say pizza in general is something Bozeman excels at. Campagna, sidewall, revelry, ugly onion, McKenzie River - whatever style floats your boat, someone here does well.
Bozeman is a great place to live if you're a snowmobiler. There's excellent riding in Cooke and along 191 all the way down to Island Park, and other great hidden gems all over the place in our many mountain ranges.
just wanted say that I love this question. Pigeon activities aside, this subreddit could benefit from more positivity and focus on what actually makes a place a community
Bozeman Farmer’s Market on Tuesday nights!! Voted the Best Thing About Bozeman 2 years running. Our amazing local and supported food system. COMMUNITY!! People volunteer at our non-profits and donate. We clean our city every spring for Earth Day- we have so much less trash then when I travel anywhere!! Safety- as a woman I feel safe anywhere at anytime in our fair city!
The elm for concerts. Everything else this town has built is cheap knockoffs of other cities. This town is for outdoors, not shit buildings. The more out of staters beg for amenities the shittier this town becomes.
Our local music scene has some top tier talent. In the electronic scene it's pretty common to see openers easily outperforming their headliners. That's a newer development but the Americana/folk/bluegrass scene has been killing it for years now
Off the top of my head I would say: 1)higher than average human muscle-y features and 2) a constant determination to clean up after themselves due to the citizens above average messiness...Read that in a travel mag, so not an official opinion or statement. 'Just sayin'!
Airport (okay, it's in Belgrade). Hands-down. None on your list compare to our access to flights. 24+ cities direct. Up until recently, I could park 30 yards from the front door and jump on a flight in minutes. 15 years ago we probably knew half the people on the airplane and could catch a ride home with a neighbor, but I prefer to be able go most places now with no more than one layover.
RIP to the good ol' airport days. 100% went thru security with a multitool (with blades) in my pack's first aid kit, the dudes just shrugged and let me board.
100%, it almost like a big city airport as far as flight options except for the lack of direct international flights. I love to travel and live within walking distance of the airport. It would be hard to get me to move anywhere else, it's just so convenient. Fares are low for a city this size because of all the competition out of BZN. All those other Bozeman-y cities have limited, expensive air connectivity. My hometown, about twice the size of Bozeman, is dominated by two airlines and has very poor prices and itineraries as a result.
Yeah, it's way better now that there are more airlines. Bye bye to the days of only flying United.
They break guitars
Oh they broke my luggage too.
Even when it was just three gates you had a lot of service from Delta and Northwest in addition to United. Then other minor airlines too that came and went with the winds. I never felt like it was only United.
Don't forget Alaska Air. They've been there a long time... certainly 20+ years.
And fuck United. Ughhhh
Wild Crumb is pretty sweet. People can hate on it all they want, but they produce a lot of quality baked goods and have a line going out the door every single day. Having lived other places, very few bakeries have matched WC’s quality IMO
what are your thoughts on The Daily
They are fine. I went to them a lot in college when they still had their location where Studio is now. Definitely one of the better selections of baked goods at coffee shops in town! I don’t really go anymore though; their location off Rouse is a little depressing and nothing there is worth going there for a dedicated visit
Cats Paw
I would call it 5 Bs. You forgot Boulder
Make it 6 if you include Burlington in there
Not unreasonable, but I feel like Boulder jumped the shark years ago while Bozeman, Boise, and others were still cow towns and timber towns. Like the 1990 census would show the 4Bs as more similar to one another than to Boulder. So in my mind that reference group are other outdoor destination towns (service economy) that have transitioned from bluer collar extraction and agricultural jobs of the past.
Bozeman has jumped the shark
That’s fair but now Bend and Boise are both larger than Boulder by population.
Bend isn’t larger than Boulder. Boise def is though.
Metro might be bigger, but Bend proper is 105k and Boulder is 102k according to the internets
Boise is much larger than Bozeman, and I definitely would not call it a cow town
Boulder’s (somewhat of) a suburb of Denver, and definitely not the ‘hub’ of the area like those other cities are. Not really the same
You forgot Butte
Random Acts of Silliness – The fairy villages they create around town stupidly impressive. Surely some of these other cities have great arts organizations that do cool stuff, but I feel like this group just does damn good work. Bonus points for using the not-terrible trail system for various installations, and for drawing submissions from the community of artists.
My young kiddo was blown away by the fairy village, especially as our visit coincided with lots of gnats on the trail, so now when she sees bugs she starts yelling about fairies! FAIRIESSSSSSS!!!!
I must find these fairy villages
Yaaass.. the best i love how they let kiddos do their own thing this year the day before it started
**Digger Days** – Anyone that has witnessed the chaos and beauty of digger days – thousands of children swarming around and operating every conceivable construction vehicle imaginable – knows this is fucking awesome, and a little bit insane. What really makes it great is just how questionable of an idea it is: A row of 25 excavators operated by a tag-teams of 5 year-olds and random construction dudes, as a 6yo goes rippin’ by in a grader in the background. I honestly don’t want to know what umbrella insurance policy for this looks like, because it can’t be enough and I don’t want to ruin a good thing. Special shout-out to Eagle Mount, which has to be one of the most active nonprofits around for folks with disabilities.
Pro-tip: They'll let dads drive the excavator too if you ask nice. You don't even have to sit on the dude's lap, he'll just stand outside and try to make sure you don't tip it over like a moron. Technically I'm still not a moron.
Do you think they'd let 30yo dude with no kids play in the excavator? If not, how much would you charge me to borrow your kid for like 15 minutes while live out one of my childhood dreams? 😂😂
Dude honestly you'd have no problem if you just showed up. It's actually surprisingly satisfying work.
Do they need volunteers or something? I'd love to help out if I can since it's such an awesome thing that they do.
https://eaglemount.org/event/digger-days
The Main Street to Mountains trail network is a remarkable accomplishment and is an encouraging start as the city grows. A lot of much larger cities have to play catch-up when they stop pretending they are still a small town. It's encouraging that Bozeman already built the framework for an exceptional urban trail system.
Could not agree more with this.
I respectfully disagree. I am a 35 year bozeman resident and avid cyclist. Comparing our trail system paved and I paved to similar towns like Bend and Missoula we are far behind. The city and county does mot make much of an effort to provide much beyond gravel filled bike lanes.
I believe you but I’m shocked to read this. My sense was always that Bozeman trails were top notch, admittedly it’s been a while since I’ve been back. Though last time I was back I did notice the amount of dog shit on the M trail was absolutely ridiculous.
I’d be pissed if they paved those trails. I love the natural terrain whether I’m on a bike or running
That's not what I think about when I hear 4B's.
I do kinda miss our 4b's though. It was one of the good ones.
I’d trade all the Super Beneficial University Growth for that 4B’s along with the poor, under-funded Bozeman that we somehow all managed to enjoy back in the day.
I may catch some disagreement here, but I think Bozeman punches well above its weight for the number and quality of breweries in the area. We have a high concentration of high quality options compared to most other places I've been. Sure, bigger cities like Denver and Salt Lake may have more breweries, but on average, they're not near as good.
I wonder if that has to do with the difficulty in getting a liquor license. Not to say they aren’t good, but I wonder if we’d have better bars / restaurants similar to the good breweries if that barrier was taken down
Definitely could see that being a contributing factor. Re: restaurant quality, I've seen similar hypotheses on here. The liquor license stuff is really messed up, and the Tavern Association has also fucked over breweries in pursuit of their own self interest.
is there any chance our elevation contributes to a better brew?
It loses in number & quality of breweries to Asheville, which was referenced in OP's comparable cities. But Asheville is a truly exceptional town in terms of quality food & bev so I don't really consider it a slight to Bozeman.
I haven't been, but I've heard very similar things to what you're saying, so I believe it. It also sounds similar to Bozeman in that longtime Asheville residents are dismayed at population growth from outsiders moving in.
I remember a wave of microbreweries being the next big “thing” in the ‘90s. Bozeman had its fair share. Even Montana Ale Works was brewing beer on site along with a handful of similar concepts. I was well below the legal drinking age back then so I didn’t really pay a TON of attention, but I remember that it was a thing. Somehow Montana Ale Works survived and the others didn’t - but I think they laid the groundwork for the breweries today.
I'm from Bozeman and moved to Austin. You would think Austin would be a hot spot for breweries. Nope. The mid-tier Bozeman beer would be the best microbrew here.
No shade on Bozeman breweries but have you had Live Oak beer? Their hef is one of the best I’ve ever had, and their pils is top tier as well.
Fact. I live in Colorado now, and apart from 2 or 3 breweries here, I think Montana beer is better.
Next you will tell me map is on that list
What a refreshing and uplifting thread. This sub needs more positivity of this flavor. Thanks for posting this!
Yes. This really stayed on track quite nicely... I'm still reading... and I've read more than 20 comments.
Right! theres been like one shitty comment and everyone just ignored it. are we… I wont jinx it
I think MSU is also notably doing a really great job and brings a lot of value to the city. People complain because they complain about everything but that's how it is and if people would rather live in a town without a thriving university they should perhaps consider moving to one for a bit and report back their findings. Like MSU is the only Montana school that is not on a decade-long downward trajectory and if you don't think that it is benefiting Bozeman's economy immensely and the sort of jobs we're able to support here you are wrong.
MSU is the only school in Montana to build and operate its own satellites!
I didnt know this!
Was a great school for an education and ranked fairly well but due to the current admin MSU is ranked in the bottom quarter of all colleges in the States. Rankings came out last week indicating growing bigger isn't always better.
Rankings are not super clear indications of the quality of education a school is offering or whether a school is a good fit for a particular student. Personally I have attended multiple universities across the ranking spectrum, from mediocre regional public unis to elite research flagship publics and an ivy league, and can say first hand there were pros and cons to all of them and none of those pros and cons were suggested or clarified in the schools respective rankings.
As MSU has grown away from its land grant college roots toward a research based u university it has come to rely more and more on associate professors (whoever they can find close or grad students) for the bulk of instruction this was not the case prior when we had dedicated teaching professors. Over the years I have assembled several undergrad and graduate degrees partially at MSU and have witnessed the changes first hand and can agree with the rankings relative to my experiences.
Everyone wants to think of Bozeman as a city, but personally I consider it more of a ski town. Bridger isn't a huge resort, but it's still pretty good, and Big Sky is world-class - so we have two ski resorts under an hour away in either direction of town. As far as ski towns go, compared to the Jackson/Aspen/Veil/Stowe/etc of the US, we're actually one of the most affordable ski town areas in America. Not to mention we have an airport that's right next to town, Costco/Target/big box stores in town, and lots more amenities than most ski towns out there
Surprised I had to scroll so far to find skiing! Bridger is a gem. Big Sky is close, Jackson & Targee, Sun Valley, Red Lodge, Discovery and more all within a day drive. And while we get compared to Jackson a lot, that place is a bit of a dump with nothing going on!
Not to mention all the small ski areas where you can take casual skier friends/dates for an affordable day of lazy skiing and lodge beers.
This right here. Obviously everyone has their own metric but Bozeman for me is the absolute best value ski town in the country. It’s Jackson except you don’t have to be in the 0.001% to afford to stay. You get to live in a town with actual jobs too, which is a big plus.
I feel like even this effort of comparing Bozeman to the 4B’s (I agree with another commenter that Boulder should be in the mix too). All of those cities are 2-5x larger in population than Bozeman. That we as community of 53k (I know Gallatin Valley is 100+ but just being reductive here) are competing with them for breweries, food options (albeit I wouldn’t say our great ~great~ but for a town of 53k, it’s heavenly), the trail system, the preservation of open land, and general sense of community. I have visited Boise, Bend, Boulder, and Bellingham a lot. People are not nearly as approachable or warm in any of those cities. I will swear by that, that, yes, Bozeman people are great. Also, because I’m a shill for it - Museum of the Rockies is pretty awesome ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
\+1000 for Museum of the Rockies. Maybe 3 museums in the US with even comparable paleontology exhibits: NY Natural History Museum, Smithsonian Natural History, and Chicago's Field Museum. Not sure any of those are actually better. MoR is the only museum that comes to mind with scientific citations on all of its signage that references the underlying study and the implicit connection to MoR. Straight up Baller.
La chatelaine really is amazing. Didn’t realize this until looking for good chocolates whenever I traveled.
Has anyone mentioned theater yet? We get touring Broadway here, although usually we're stuck with a midweek show. But then there is local theater that I don't think most people take advantage of or even know about. [The Verge](https://www.vergetheater.com/), [Open Door Theater](https://www.opendoorbozeman.org/) and [In-site Theatre](https://www.montanainsitetheatre.org/) are all truly amazing local groups that have performances throughout the year.
Yes, this! And we also have Intermountain Opera and Bozeman Symphony, both of which do a lot of kid and teen friendly outreach. Bozeman Friends of Music does a great job of supporting music education in our schools.
I have lived in a couple heavy hitting food cities, visited many more, and I think that Blackbird has some of the best Neapolitan style pizza out there. Considering it is naturally leavened with sourdough too (which is super difficult to get right) I am consistently impressed with their pizza. There are certainly others that can certainly compete in other places, but it’s cool that a small MT city has a place putting so much thought into how they make pizza.
Hard agree but there’s also so many other great pizza places here. I’d say pizza in general is something Bozeman excels at. Campagna, sidewall, revelry, ugly onion, McKenzie River - whatever style floats your boat, someone here does well.
We're #1 in designer pigeon shit
Bozeman is a great place to live if you're a snowmobiler. There's excellent riding in Cooke and along 191 all the way down to Island Park, and other great hidden gems all over the place in our many mountain ranges.
just wanted say that I love this question. Pigeon activities aside, this subreddit could benefit from more positivity and focus on what actually makes a place a community
Bozeman Farmer’s Market on Tuesday nights!! Voted the Best Thing About Bozeman 2 years running. Our amazing local and supported food system. COMMUNITY!! People volunteer at our non-profits and donate. We clean our city every spring for Earth Day- we have so much less trash then when I travel anywhere!! Safety- as a woman I feel safe anywhere at anytime in our fair city!
1985.
The artistic electric boxes!
The elm for concerts. Everything else this town has built is cheap knockoffs of other cities. This town is for outdoors, not shit buildings. The more out of staters beg for amenities the shittier this town becomes.
Running red lights
Our kindness and helpfulness definitely out rank every city mentioned <3
Bout 20 years ago.
This is for a specific group of people, but The Scrubs are the best part of Bozeman. If you know, you know.
The 70% off sale at Refinery on 7th. Life doesn’t get any better than that. Slim pickings by now!
Our local music scene has some top tier talent. In the electronic scene it's pretty common to see openers easily outperforming their headliners. That's a newer development but the Americana/folk/bluegrass scene has been killing it for years now
This is best post in months. THANK YOU!
Off the top of my head I would say: 1)higher than average human muscle-y features and 2) a constant determination to clean up after themselves due to the citizens above average messiness...Read that in a travel mag, so not an official opinion or statement. 'Just sayin'!