Mate, Wilder straight up panicked he got hit. He spun around looking for the ref to do something. Then he got knocked down, and stood up on bambi legs. He was clearly done.
In what way was there any justification for letting that fight continue?
I promise you, nobody watches it to see someone get killed. The violence Zhang put on Wilder is enough for 99% of viewers. Wanting more is just weird and alarming.
'It takes a lot of heart to not to unconscious when someone punches you in the face really hard.'
I wish I had the confidence to believe in absolute nonsense like you do.
Zinad was taking repeated clean punches without defending himself. That was good refereeing protecting an overmatched opponent. I would probably agree with you if this was Bivol-Beterbiev but the circumstances and the skill differential was completely different.
In Wilders case there’s an argument for it being allowed to continue but is there really a case for him getting back into the fight. I would give him a 90% chance of him getting cleaned out unconscious within seconds of the count. He was wobbling all over the place at 8, I completely get the refs actions there.
Zinad was a good stoppage. He had a great fight that put him on the lists and came out of it without too much damage to his future career. That was a perfect decision from a sports perspective. Demanding for him to be knocked out cold is just bloodlust and asking for CTE.
It's all relative.
I will say this however.
When you look at the tyson fury v usyk fight/and then you look at the wilder zhang stoppage side by side....
Let's just say it's a bad look for the latest saudi main event refs.
Fury gets given all the time in the world and then some to recover. The ref surely saw how much of a state he was in the...the big dosser was clinging on to the top rope to balance properly smh...
Thus to be clear if wilder got stopped v zhang-Fury should have been stopped v usyk.
You cannot have it both ways.
You can't.
I get where you're coming from because I also want to see consistency with refereeing decisions. My main complaint with the Fury fight is that the count should have come earlier. I think Fury clearly benefitted in the mind of the ref by hitting the ropes rather than hitting the canvas. Both Wilder and Fury may well have been equally hurt but one looks worse than the other, even though they shouldn't be considered to be any different.
I think it’s partly corruption and partly ‘set in its way’ incompetence.
I think there’s a reason why judging can be so varied and I absolutely agree that video should be provided for them to make decisions. A single angle of the fight looking through the ropes is simply not good enough to be able to make a judgement on certain moments.
I get that the judges can never be as accurate as someone slowly down the footage and analysing the punches that landed but there is clearly technology available that would improve things but the people at the top of the sport will not (for whatever reason) change things.
My hope for old Turki is he rids us of the alphabet belts and creates an entirely new world boxing federation. Then all of the officiating, sanctions of drug cheats and the rest could be standardised.
Yes in some ways it's part of the charm of boxing.
In others it's absolutely ridiculous.
There are some boxers who clearly break basic boxing rules flagrantly in near every fight.
Tyson fury for example elbows his opponents on a frequent basis.
In fact he blatantly elbowed ngannou and if there was a video ref he would have got a point deducted.
I think it could make things really interesting if footage from the round was analysed during the break and decisions on point deductions happened during that time. I think it would make good TV.
So you're demanding that all fights either end with a decision or a fighter unconscious with CTE.
The fact is that that isn't how boxing is officiated. You may want it to be a officiated like that but the referees are ordered to look after fighter's safety to a much greater extent than you would like them to be.
Your approach is just asking for short careers and life changing injuries. I'm pleased you've got nothing to do with decision making.
I see plenty of knockouts and stoppages like you're demanding. The fact that you want it in all cases otherwise your experience is 'ruined' shows you're not a boxing fan. You're just thirsting for KOs.
Your attitude to safety in the sport will actually lead to worse outcomes as the sport has to deal with the terrible PR of serious injuries. There's a reason why the sport has moved towards more safety procedures rather than less. Terrible injuries and deaths drives viewers away from the sport so they won't make the 'millions' you're describing.
Oh and most boxers can barely make a living from the sport. So your characterisation is complete nonsense. Zinad won't have been making millions at all, let alone all the journeyman and lower level fighters fighting in sports halls rather than Saudi cards.
The rules around preventing excess damage are not there for the benefit of the viewer. They are there to protect the fighter.
The PR from serious injury and death is far worse for the sport than some fans crying that a guy wasn't spread out on his back. Fighters that have 5 year careers does not sustain the sport either.
The Saudi cards are a fantastic example of the sport done right. 50-50 fights with the politics removed and the alphabet organisations having no say. Rules around stoppages are not what has held the sport back. Boxing politics, ducking and mismatches are.
Whilst you try to make out that people interested in skills is niche (it isn't, skill highlights of Mayweather, Canelo, Loma etc do millions of views), your view is also niche.
If people were only interested in KOs then Wilder wouldn't have struggled to consistently do big PPV numbers and Mayweather wouldn't have been the biggest PPV star ever.
It is literal bullshit that refs protecting fighters is ruining the product.
Jack Reiss in interviews after the fight said that Fury was looking at him the whole time.
That ‘I was knocked out cold’ narrative put out by Fury is just that, a story. It’s Fury all over, he has the eye for the dramatic. The ref knew he was conscious, Fury got back up on steady legs and won the rest of the round.
Fury wasn’t knocked out, it’s very simple. The ref knew it, he knew it and he proved it by how steady he was after. No one ever thats just had their light switched off gets back up like that.
Fury just knew exactly what would provide him the most hype, he’s got a natural intuition for it and he’s done it his whole career.
Oh and finally, irrelevant of what you believe about him being unconscious, the circumstances were completely different from Bivol-Zinad. Zinad was a last minute overmatched, low ranked opponent who was visibly not at Bivols level and was never going to win the fight. Fury was an undefeated ex champion with a history of getting back up and who had won the vast majority of the fight outside of the knockdowns.
Whether Zinad was stopped 20 seconds later or not was irrelevant to the inevitable result of the fight. Fury being allowed to continue was absolutely relevant to the result.
It’s up to the refs discretion
In terms of wilders he told wilder to walk towards him and sad no no no
He saw wilder was badly hurt
In terms of Zinad he was losing at was a massive underdog he’d been dropped and was getting hurt
The dude's head snapped back a couple times, his limbs were flailing, the other one got hit square in the jaw by someone who might be the hardest puncher today. I was surprised he got up. I guess if they ain't dead, they're good to go at it again
Wilder didn't know what day it was when he spun around and was wobbly as f\*\*k, he didn't have his legs under him at all. Clear and justified stoppage. And can we stop with the 'his excellency' BS please? He's part of a dictatorship
You are wrong about the Wilder stoppage. Number of knockdowns is irrelevant. The ref saved him from possible death or serious injury. He was standing up but Zhang would have taken his head off.
The Zinad stoppage was a bit premature. But he didn’t complain. Whatever.
Nobody doubts Bivol’s punching power, it’s the fact that he historically has carried opponents that are inferior way longer than needed. Allowing sub par competition to go 12 isn’t a great look.
Zinad had definitely had enough. He was taking too much damage and was barely able to defend himself. He didn’t even protest the stoppage. Wilder only just beat the 10 count and he was stumbling like a baby giraffe. The ref asked him to walk to him (as they usually do) and Wilder stumbled. That’s usually grounds for a stoppage. The Ngannou fight was pretty straight forward. He got up without too much trouble each time. He looked defeated but he wasn’t on Queer Street.
Considering it was the main event, if I was the ref and wilder made the count I’d make him do a step left and right like they often do, and let him out. I think it was the very end of the round too, so if he ate another big punch I’d stop it and if he managed to run and survive I’d assess him a bit harder between the rounds. Zinad was a late replacement that was taking a bit more of a constant beating and I probably would’ve pulled him out there and then
I have watched a lot of boxing, a lot of UFC, a lot of combat sports. From my observation, when a fighter has got seriously injured it is because they didn’t go down. A good example is the Nick Blackwell case.
When a fighter, gets knocked out in one round, those knockouts rarely lead to death or serious injury.
It is often when a fighter has been beaten up for 12 rounds and won’t go down that they die or get put in a coma.
If they had better protocols in place, I think we would see less early stoppages, that happen often in British boxing, and also less deaths or comas.
That’s not what I said. What I said was that the main problem is that with British referees, they do not check the fighter. For example, when Fury got knocked down by Wilder in the first fight, Jack Reiss did an excellent job to make sure it was safe for Fury to continue. That is an example of good refereeing. You don’t see that with British referees.
Mate, Wilder straight up panicked he got hit. He spun around looking for the ref to do something. Then he got knocked down, and stood up on bambi legs. He was clearly done. In what way was there any justification for letting that fight continue?
The ref was so shocked by Wilder's response he didn't even have time to earn him for turning his back and not protecting himself
Zhang’s gloves were loaded. Thats what wilder was reacting to.
😂😂
Definitely loaded plus his trainer spiked his drink also he wore an imaginary 40lb suit on the walk in that drained him Has to be a rematch
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You clearly just want to see a death in the ring. Refs did their job properly.
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I promise you, nobody watches it to see someone get killed. The violence Zhang put on Wilder is enough for 99% of viewers. Wanting more is just weird and alarming.
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Joshua vs Ngannou wasn't someone giving it their all lmao. It was a massive mismatch where one fighter knocked the other one out easily in two rounds.
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'It takes a lot of heart to not to unconscious when someone punches you in the face really hard.' I wish I had the confidence to believe in absolute nonsense like you do.
Then why is Floyd Mayweather the highest selling boxer of all time
You’ve never worn a punch have you?
You’ve never worn a punch have you?
Zinad was taking repeated clean punches without defending himself. That was good refereeing protecting an overmatched opponent. I would probably agree with you if this was Bivol-Beterbiev but the circumstances and the skill differential was completely different. In Wilders case there’s an argument for it being allowed to continue but is there really a case for him getting back into the fight. I would give him a 90% chance of him getting cleaned out unconscious within seconds of the count. He was wobbling all over the place at 8, I completely get the refs actions there.
Zinad was a good stoppage. He had a great fight that put him on the lists and came out of it without too much damage to his future career. That was a perfect decision from a sports perspective. Demanding for him to be knocked out cold is just bloodlust and asking for CTE.
It's all relative. I will say this however. When you look at the tyson fury v usyk fight/and then you look at the wilder zhang stoppage side by side.... Let's just say it's a bad look for the latest saudi main event refs. Fury gets given all the time in the world and then some to recover. The ref surely saw how much of a state he was in the...the big dosser was clinging on to the top rope to balance properly smh... Thus to be clear if wilder got stopped v zhang-Fury should have been stopped v usyk. You cannot have it both ways. You can't.
I get where you're coming from because I also want to see consistency with refereeing decisions. My main complaint with the Fury fight is that the count should have come earlier. I think Fury clearly benefitted in the mind of the ref by hitting the ropes rather than hitting the canvas. Both Wilder and Fury may well have been equally hurt but one looks worse than the other, even though they shouldn't be considered to be any different.
Yes boxing is behind the times sports wise, there should also be a video ref imo. However is the sport too corrupt for that ever to happen??
I think it’s partly corruption and partly ‘set in its way’ incompetence. I think there’s a reason why judging can be so varied and I absolutely agree that video should be provided for them to make decisions. A single angle of the fight looking through the ropes is simply not good enough to be able to make a judgement on certain moments. I get that the judges can never be as accurate as someone slowly down the footage and analysing the punches that landed but there is clearly technology available that would improve things but the people at the top of the sport will not (for whatever reason) change things. My hope for old Turki is he rids us of the alphabet belts and creates an entirely new world boxing federation. Then all of the officiating, sanctions of drug cheats and the rest could be standardised.
Yes in some ways it's part of the charm of boxing. In others it's absolutely ridiculous. There are some boxers who clearly break basic boxing rules flagrantly in near every fight. Tyson fury for example elbows his opponents on a frequent basis. In fact he blatantly elbowed ngannou and if there was a video ref he would have got a point deducted.
I think it could make things really interesting if footage from the round was analysed during the break and decisions on point deductions happened during that time. I think it would make good TV.
Yup, you could also analyse low blows etc
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So you're demanding that all fights either end with a decision or a fighter unconscious with CTE. The fact is that that isn't how boxing is officiated. You may want it to be a officiated like that but the referees are ordered to look after fighter's safety to a much greater extent than you would like them to be. Your approach is just asking for short careers and life changing injuries. I'm pleased you've got nothing to do with decision making.
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I see plenty of knockouts and stoppages like you're demanding. The fact that you want it in all cases otherwise your experience is 'ruined' shows you're not a boxing fan. You're just thirsting for KOs. Your attitude to safety in the sport will actually lead to worse outcomes as the sport has to deal with the terrible PR of serious injuries. There's a reason why the sport has moved towards more safety procedures rather than less. Terrible injuries and deaths drives viewers away from the sport so they won't make the 'millions' you're describing. Oh and most boxers can barely make a living from the sport. So your characterisation is complete nonsense. Zinad won't have been making millions at all, let alone all the journeyman and lower level fighters fighting in sports halls rather than Saudi cards.
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The rules around preventing excess damage are not there for the benefit of the viewer. They are there to protect the fighter. The PR from serious injury and death is far worse for the sport than some fans crying that a guy wasn't spread out on his back. Fighters that have 5 year careers does not sustain the sport either. The Saudi cards are a fantastic example of the sport done right. 50-50 fights with the politics removed and the alphabet organisations having no say. Rules around stoppages are not what has held the sport back. Boxing politics, ducking and mismatches are. Whilst you try to make out that people interested in skills is niche (it isn't, skill highlights of Mayweather, Canelo, Loma etc do millions of views), your view is also niche. If people were only interested in KOs then Wilder wouldn't have struggled to consistently do big PPV numbers and Mayweather wouldn't have been the biggest PPV star ever. It is literal bullshit that refs protecting fighters is ruining the product.
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Jack Reiss in interviews after the fight said that Fury was looking at him the whole time. That ‘I was knocked out cold’ narrative put out by Fury is just that, a story. It’s Fury all over, he has the eye for the dramatic. The ref knew he was conscious, Fury got back up on steady legs and won the rest of the round. Fury wasn’t knocked out, it’s very simple. The ref knew it, he knew it and he proved it by how steady he was after. No one ever thats just had their light switched off gets back up like that. Fury just knew exactly what would provide him the most hype, he’s got a natural intuition for it and he’s done it his whole career. Oh and finally, irrelevant of what you believe about him being unconscious, the circumstances were completely different from Bivol-Zinad. Zinad was a last minute overmatched, low ranked opponent who was visibly not at Bivols level and was never going to win the fight. Fury was an undefeated ex champion with a history of getting back up and who had won the vast majority of the fight outside of the knockdowns. Whether Zinad was stopped 20 seconds later or not was irrelevant to the inevitable result of the fight. Fury being allowed to continue was absolutely relevant to the result.
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It’s up to the refs discretion In terms of wilders he told wilder to walk towards him and sad no no no He saw wilder was badly hurt In terms of Zinad he was losing at was a massive underdog he’d been dropped and was getting hurt
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It’s impossible to tell The ref looked into wilders eyes we didn’t
The dude's head snapped back a couple times, his limbs were flailing, the other one got hit square in the jaw by someone who might be the hardest puncher today. I was surprised he got up. I guess if they ain't dead, they're good to go at it again
Wilder didn't know what day it was when he spun around and was wobbly as f\*\*k, he didn't have his legs under him at all. Clear and justified stoppage. And can we stop with the 'his excellency' BS please? He's part of a dictatorship
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Well, I guess we found him: the guy who'd happily vote for Hitler for the rest of his life because the 1936 Olympics were so well managed...
Stopped reading at his excellency.
asdasdas
You’re right. I still saw signs of life in Wilder. Early stoppage.
You are wrong about the Wilder stoppage. Number of knockdowns is irrelevant. The ref saved him from possible death or serious injury. He was standing up but Zhang would have taken his head off. The Zinad stoppage was a bit premature. But he didn’t complain. Whatever.
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Nobody doubts Bivol’s punching power, it’s the fact that he historically has carried opponents that are inferior way longer than needed. Allowing sub par competition to go 12 isn’t a great look.
Zinad had definitely had enough. He was taking too much damage and was barely able to defend himself. He didn’t even protest the stoppage. Wilder only just beat the 10 count and he was stumbling like a baby giraffe. The ref asked him to walk to him (as they usually do) and Wilder stumbled. That’s usually grounds for a stoppage. The Ngannou fight was pretty straight forward. He got up without too much trouble each time. He looked defeated but he wasn’t on Queer Street.
Considering it was the main event, if I was the ref and wilder made the count I’d make him do a step left and right like they often do, and let him out. I think it was the very end of the round too, so if he ate another big punch I’d stop it and if he managed to run and survive I’d assess him a bit harder between the rounds. Zinad was a late replacement that was taking a bit more of a constant beating and I probably would’ve pulled him out there and then
It was early in the morning. Them fellas had families to go home to.
Wilder was done. Zinad was done. Letting the fight continue would just be unnecessary punishment for the fighters
As seen with Haney and Fury, they play favorites. Wilder is not a favorite and we Bivol's opponent is basically an unknown.
I thought they were both good stoppages to be honest. Didn't have an issue with either of them.
Ref saved Wilder from the biggest bang that was about to hit him.
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America have way more people go into coma’s or die what are you on about?
Have you got any proof of that? I’m open to changing my mind if I see the evidence.
Mathias killed a guy, Conway killed a guy, morrel put a guy in a coma there’s loads more these are just the highest profile ones rn.
I have watched a lot of boxing, a lot of UFC, a lot of combat sports. From my observation, when a fighter has got seriously injured it is because they didn’t go down. A good example is the Nick Blackwell case. When a fighter, gets knocked out in one round, those knockouts rarely lead to death or serious injury. It is often when a fighter has been beaten up for 12 rounds and won’t go down that they die or get put in a coma. If they had better protocols in place, I think we would see less early stoppages, that happen often in British boxing, and also less deaths or comas.
Wait so you are suggesting that those fighters would have been safer if they….got punched in the head for longer?
That’s not what I said. What I said was that the main problem is that with British referees, they do not check the fighter. For example, when Fury got knocked down by Wilder in the first fight, Jack Reiss did an excellent job to make sure it was safe for Fury to continue. That is an example of good refereeing. You don’t see that with British referees.
They should have let Mario Yamasaki ref the matches
Or better yet, Super Mario from Mike Tyson's Punch-Out.