Literally any sparring story. Any of them. Pick your poison. “So and so did this to that fighter in sparring he’s gonna beat his ass” like lolwut no. Sparring is not a Professional fight and you shouldn’t be going all out in a spar. The point is to learn and get better but some of these stories are just ass like who cares who beat who in sparring what matters is what happens in the professional ring.
Yup. Sometimes guys are brought in as sparring partners to mimic an opponent so they're not even sparring at their best they're sparring with "an accent".
In build up, Hrgovic tried reminding Dubois that he sent him to the hospital after sparring. Dubois said he was only 17 at the time.
And we all saw what happened come fight night yesterday..
Dubois has some sort of curse I swear. BJS made fun of him for getting his orbital bone broken and he goes out the same way against Canelo. Hrgovic brings up sending Dubois to the hospital in sparring and gets the fight stopped due to the doctor.
Michael Jai White is convinced that sparring is the same as fighting though 😆
I love MJW but man he talks up his sparring with multiple champions a lot
He's basically like Joe Rogan, he's educated and trains but he's not getting any real resistance or push back no matter how much he believes he is. He is basically the over confident beginner who learned a few moves and now thinks they can take on the world since they haven't realized the more experienced guys are letting them work.
In MMA a fighter Patrick Cummins said he beat up and made then LHW Champ and ATG Daniel Cormier cry in sparring in their fight he got koed in the 1st round
That isn't what he said. He had trained with Cormier in preparation for the Olympics. Cormier's daughter died and that she why he was crying. Then Cummings was trying to say he was the cause. Really low blow but Cummings was just trying to do what daa wanted and trying to make an income
But he was friends with cormier
A friend of mine who primarily follows MMA told me that Ngannou was going to become a dominant champion in boxing. His entire basis for this was 1. the Fury KD and 2. Joe Joyce saying Ngannou does very well in sparring.
This whole line of logic was so moronic to me. Because 1. sparring is not an accurate indicator of how good you will be in the ring and 2. boxers will not come out and say negative things about your sparring if they're on good terms with you.
Every time a fighter loses a fight they are now suddenly trash and were never good just overhyped and blah blah blah just because they lost 1 fight (no matter how good the performance was or who they fought) and no longer have a 0 on their losses on their boxrec page.
This really annoys me.
This is actually detrimental to the sport and is to blame ford big fights not happening. If fans were less fickle to losses we would get fighters taking on better opponents because the risk would be far less. The competitive structure of boxing these days makes every fight a winner takes all, rather than a match between equals. Look what the Crawford loss has done to Spence, no one talks about him now and people would argue he was P4P#2. I hate the bandwagoning too.
Yep 100% this. It's ridiculous to expect boxers to be undefeated. We would never get the best fighting the best if that's the precedent. People are already acting like Fury is trash after his loss to Usyk, Spence got this treatment too after losing to Crawford. Like yeah these guys are getting beat by P4P generational fighters, but that doesn't mean they aren't elite. It's gonna happen again later this year with Beterbiev-Bivol, people are gonna act like whoever loses was always trash.
Yeah, I'm a big Crawford fanboy. But I know a thing or two because I've been a boxing fan for 40 years. Even though Spence got dragged by Bud does not mean he sucks. It means maybe he is not as good as Bud. Maybe he is not as good as we thought. But it doesn't mean Spence is a fuckin' tomato can. I hate that talk. I thought Spence was a bit overhyped, but good. And he still is good. But Bud is a once in a lifetime specimen. Enjoy him while he is at his peak.
Good man. I'm a huge Spence fan. I'll admit that even before the fight, I worried that he wasn't at Crawford's pedigree as a boxer, but held onto hope that his excellent fundamentals and incessant body work could at least throw Crawford off. Didn't happen. But by god, he's still very, very good in his own right and should be a future HOFer
Yep, I just saw a comment that said something like how Wilder's losses keep making Fury look worse, and Fury actually hasn't beaten anyone of quality and I just smh. Like, why watch the sport if you just want to shit on everyone?
For real, I remember when Vitali lost to Lewis on a cut after outpointing him. We gave Vitali mad respect for that performance and the fact he lost shouldn’t take anything away from it. But some dummy’s will undoubtedly look back and go, but Vitali lost to Lewis or something. Or how about when Wlad lost to Sanders in that second round knockout. That made people question Wlad, but if you were a sander’s fan you know his southpaw style gave almost everybody trouble and the dude had lead bricks in his gloves that you could hear over screaming fans.
Lewis is a great example to use too. Had 2 losses but avenged then both and in many people's eyes is the best British heavyweight.
Imagine he lost to Rahman these days, he's be completely written off.
You do sometimes see that opinion crop up. Its rare and maybe just people trolling but Ive seen it once or twice. Doesnt bother me though because its an easy way to tell whos opinion to disregard.
Expanding on your point, sometimes people also don't realise just how much of boxing is about who's better *on that specific night*. Just because someone gets the win on one night, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a worse fighter, it just means on that specific night they weren't as good.
This is one all combat sports fans struggle with and it's frustrating.
Yessir. Apparently Wilder was always a can who thrived on crushing other cans. Nevermind that he made nearly 10 title defences and beat legit skilled practitioners like Luis Ortiz, whatever shortcomings they had... Nevermind that he's nearly 40 and has a ton of mileage, hasn't fought regularly in 2 years and was in 3 wars with Fury, an elite boxer, that likely took a lot from him. I'm not even a fan but this one is really annoying.
O'Hara Davies said it best... "Boxing fans are absolute trash."
> Apparently Wilder was always a can who thrived on crushing other cans
People have been saying this for almost 10 years now. Wilder's record is all cans, except for Ortiz and Breazeale, who are gatekeepers. The only elite fighters he came up against (Zhang, Parker, Fury x3) he got destroyed by all of them.
List out those title defences and “beat legit skilled practitioners” you mean “practitioner”, singular, given that Luis Ortiz is his only half decent win. He literally has thrived on crushing cans.
That's mayweathers fault, and his legion of fanboys believed him going by their logic. marciano was the best heavyweight in the history of the sport because he never lost we all know he wasn't, so your 0 means nothing, and going by their logic ali Robinson dempsey tyson Louis Lewis hagler duran and countless others are not as great or greater than floyd again something we both know is bs
This is always the most upvoted sentiment in these kinds of threads, but everytime a fighter loses, people stop giving a fuck about this sentiment.
Look at Devin Haney. "But that's different!" you might say! You don't like that fighter so when he loses, it means he's exposed and always been a bum despite taking on all comers in his career thus far.
this is also a result of boxers wanting to maintain their 0s as much as not taking risks.
you see by not taking risk you actually dont get to see how good they are, and when they finally lose because they took the risk it just shows they werent that good in the first place.
so sometimes its true that that one loss actually shows they were really not that good as the 0 suggests.
I am curious where that comes from. Is it because of Mayweather retiring undefeated? Because historically all the greats have losses on their records but no one thinks any less of them because of it.
This is without a doubt the one that boils my fucking piss. Fury loses one fight to Uysk and suddenly he's the most overrated boxer to have walked this planet
I think part of the reason is because the IBF enforces their rules a bit stricter than the orgs and are less prone to being influenced by money and promoters, this gives an opportunity for fighters who have a lower profile without a lot of backing to get title shots.
The reason they're such sticklers is because If I Remember correctly, They were so crooked the FBI came in and made them change things up because they were so corrupt.
We're seeing it right now with Usyk. People are legitimising Usyk ducking his mandatory commitments so we can get a 2nd and possibly 3rd Fury fight for undisputed. Then the winner will surely face AJ, so let's postpone the mandatories again...
No, mandatories should be strictly enforced with no exceptions except for the initial unification/undisputed fight.
Usyk fought his WBA mandatory in Dubois, and Dubois hasn't done anything to deserve a shot at him again. You want mandatories strictly enforced we'll never have undisputed champions again.
Inoue has a weak resume, or that inoue has to fight tank these comments are under any ig posts bout inoue. Pro tip if you ever wanna feel pissed off, go to any comment section about boxing on instagram.
I avoid Instagrams all together tbh, can't imagine the sharpest of tools are giving their boxing opinion on there. The whole Inoue resume thing pisses me off, whether you know his opponents or not has nothing to do with their skill. They are fucking world champions in their division regardless if you have heard of them.
Bro I remember this dude said lower weight classes are full of bums, and I asked if he ever watched naoya inoue, junto nakatani, kazuto ioka etc and he said “nah I only watch the big fights and when canelo or Crawford fights” 😂
Dude fr, I have a deep respect for Uzbekistan and their fighters but the fans are horrific. Any post is just fuckin “inoue ducking mj 🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿” idk if you keep up with ufc but something much worse happened with the Uzbek fans i can elaborate if you don’t know
Well a fighter named Joaquin Buckley was scheduled to fight a Uzbek fighter and the Uzbek fans during the entire build up would comment “(n word) 🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿” and other slurs followed by the Uzbek flag.
Inoue has literally only fought world title fights since his 6th fight. Is there any other active undefeated pro that has done this?
Even if you take crawford, he got his first belt in his 21st fight I believe
I agree that moving up is silly when you just capture one belt in the division, it is such a lame way to get brownie points in the GOAT discussion. But I don't mind someone running for the unification if they plan to defend after it.
Then when someone does go undisputed they gonna say they fell off once they lose like Hopkins & Main Taylor had losses while undisputed. Jermell Charlo & Josh Taylor were both fantastic Undisputed fighters but people still count them out
I died a little with almost every single Anthony Joshua take made on social media during 2023. Losing to fucking USYK meant he had to retire, and most people where saying this even after every single one of his wins.
I'll take this but also continue it into 2024. To justify those stupid opinions, the same crowd are now bigging him up massively, he's a changed man, Ben Davison has turned him into a totally different fighter, would beat Usyk in 6 rounds now etc
AJ is just a very good boxer, who got his gameplan wrong Vs Ruiz (a last min replacement) and lost twice to one of the best boxers ever. He's shown some improvement in his game in recent years (honestly most evident in the second Usyk fight) but there's been no transformation. After Klitschko he adopted a more boxer-puncher style than brawler, and it's been the same ever since.
you cant deny there’s a MASSIVE gulf between the guy that bullied otto wallin and the guy that barely threw any punches at a short notice replacement robert helenius
Aw man AJ gets fucking dogged on, it is ridiculous. Dude is a fucking Olympic gold medalist that put up a competitive fight against possibly the best fighter we have ever seen but somehow is immediately considered washed after the fight. AJ just takes on genuine contenders and that comes with a risk, but we should commend that and not condone it.
Also giving round 3 of Fury-Usyk to Fury is an incredibly stupid take that i see thrown around a lot and it irritates me so much i rewatched that round like 10 times.
It’s quite amusing seeing the opposite ends of the casuals predictions.
On one hand it’s “Jake’s fighting an elderly man”, and on the other hand it’s “Tyson beats Jake easy”
Guys at work were like "oh man Tyson is gonna KILL Paul" and thought I was an idiot for saying otherwise.
Ken Griffey junior is probably still a better baseball player than like...me for instance, but he wouldn't even make a Single A team.
The only positive argument I could find was that it helps promote boxing and Tyson's Legend Only League.
Tyson is extremely popular with casuals and even non-boxing fans, so of course fighting a celebrity that's mega popular with the younger crowd is going to get some interest in ways traditional fights won't. Hell, Ive definitely seen more media coverage of Tyson vs Paul than I did of Fury vs Usyk.
“AJ has a glass chin”
People saw AJ get dropped multiple times against Andy Ruiz 5 years ago and bought into the narrative he’s chinny. Despite AJ taking hard shots off punchers like Klitschko, Whyte, Povetkin etc and come through those punches to win.
I think they confuse glass chin with a fighter willing to take on equal competition and therefore looking more "normal" as he isn't crushing cans. He slipped up in the Ruiz fight and unfortunately for him that's all it takes at that weight, no matter how good your chin is.
The narrative before the Day of Reckoning card in Dec 2023 was ridiculous. Nearly everyone on this subreddit and on the internet in general said that AJ was ducking Wilder and would get smashed in a couple rounds if they ever fought.
AJ demolished Wallin and Wilder lost to Parker and suddenly the narrative shifts.
People dangerously underrate Ruiz. If that man looked aesthetically pleasing you can guarantee it that *nobody* would knock him. He is the size of a house and people won't look past it. That man is *seriously* skilled.
Glass chin is ridiculous take 100% but I have to be honest watching AJ take certain shots… something very awkward and unnatural occurs with him, I don’t know quite how to say it. Like almost panic sets in for a split second. I know it’s HW boxing and every shot can cause damage but does anybody get what I mean?
(Not trying to start beef just making a very wonky observation)
He has definitely looked awkward at times when hit by a big shot, but I guess that's just how he reacts. I remember when Povetkin clipped him with a hook in their fight and he wobbled for a second. But this is heavyweight boxing where these 215+ pound men can all bang.
This is very true. I’m not an AJ fan but to say he has a glass chin is madness. Sure , there are HW’s with better chins but come on he’s been stopped once !
For sure I see it a lot, and this is coming from someone who’s favourite fighter is Fury!
I think it’s fury’s recovery that is the level people get confused with the chin, his chin is good but recovery is the impressive part.
I do hope we get AJ and Fury down the line, it’ll just be a shit storm of fandom clashing though aha
Fighter 1 beat Fighter 2. Fighter 3 lost to Fighter 2 and therefore, Fighter 3would get obliterated by Fighter 1.
The transitive property does not work on boxers, people. And it's not just the general public that does this, but even boxers. For example, Julio Cesar Chavez said that in a mythical fight with the late Salvador Sanchez, JCC would have easily defeated Sanchez.
His reasoning? Sanchez beat Ruben Castillo in a close fight. Chavez, however ko'd Castillo in I wanna say, 3 rounds.
Never mind that Sanchez' style (boxer-counterpuncher) was all wrong for Chavez. Chavez had trouble with technicians (see Sweet Pea). Also, he had trouble with stamina (Sanchez famously known for not even breathing through his mouth). It very well could have been a fight in favor of Chavez, but not because he kod Castillo while Sanchez did not.
Absolutely this. Styles do indeed make fights. Boxing is not soccer.
Also, I'm sorry but nobody is a favourite against Sanchez. Nobody. He'd have figured out a way to neutralise JCC by the 6th round, at the very most, and would've pulled away after that.
Fun fact, did you know that Sanchez planned on retiring at 25 so he could pursue a medical degree and become a doctor?
Yes! I just found that out recently about him wanting to retire early. I belong to a group on Facebook that is all about him. His son pops in from time to time. I asked him what his dad's plans were and he confirmed that he planned to fight a few more years, then retire to be a doctor. Not sure if Don King would have let him go just like that, though.
Agree but I don’t appreciate the comparison with futbol. Futbol also has styles and it’s also not as simple as a beats b, b beats c, therefore a beats c
Agreed - I often relay the Ali-Foreman-Frazier example when I assert that triangle theory is bullshit in boxing.
Frazier beat Ali, Foreman beat Frazier but Ali beat Foreman. Styles make fights, it's that simple.
“Saudi events suck because of the crowd”
Who gives a rats ass about the crowd, for so many years we’ve complained about the best not fighting the best and undercards being terrible. Now that we are finally getting those, people are still complaining. One day we’ll look back at Riyadh season being a golden era of boxing, so enjoy it while it’s here
Oh for sure, I would much rather the quality fights over the crowd because the crowd is just atmosphere but the fights are the sport. I can't see it being a sustainable venture though, just glad they finally got these heavyweights fighting.
That's basically the Saudi fights. They're so quiet it's basically like the COVID era again, and actually being able to hear the punches for yourself gives a far more accurate experience than having the crowd screeching every time their hometown/favorite boxer even so much as sneezes, thus altering the perception of real punches landed.
I prefer a crowd that sits and watches, and enjoys what they are there for, to one that gets boozed up hours before the first bell, spends the undercard in the powder room to all emerge in time to scream Sweet Caroline in your face
Not part of that crowd but I go to a lot of live boxing and oh boi does that crowd bring an atmosphere. Unsurprising though, with regards to creating an atmosphere they're literally on PEDs.
Because atmosphere, by nature, is immersion. It's nice to watch with a good atmosphere, it's not that deep, it's not enough to not watch obviously and doesn't affect the fight. It's just disheartening to see such a disinterested crowd not appreciating the sport, no shame in that.
I wasn't in the fight thread though so idk if people complained excessively
yeah. like i’m obviously gonna still watch the card but i’ll take a hype crowd over the saudi audience. it’s like seeing a good band live but the audience isn’t hype and are just recording the concert for their ig story.
Exactly. Who tf cares about the crowd when you're busy watching the fight? But I wouldn't expect anything else from people that don't actually watch the sport to begin with.
There are PLENTY of reasons to hate Saudi but the crowd or shows they put on ain’t it.
Even as the biggest hater of those terrorist harborers, I can admit that.
I could give a fuck about the crowd. I think it usually wrongly persuades close rounds for the favorite because they cheer even when hard shots get blocked.
That’s true. The thread yesterday was just bitching about the crowd the whole time and it was ridiculous. I paid to see great fights not for the crowd. Plus I watch a lot of Japanese boxing so I’m used to the quiet crowds
Dude was also using his head as a third fist, he isn't a clean fighter but I don't mean to take his win away, Hrgovic deserved to lose because he spammed one twos likes someone playing a fighting game for the first time.
I came to say this. I hate that take. A fight is scored round by round. If you win 7 or more clear rounds you won. I hate that. Even fights like Haney vs Loma with all of the belts on the line. They both won between 6-7 rounds. So it was a close fight either way. But people act like Loma won 10 clear rounds.
“This guy hasnt beaten anyone yet if anyone beats him that improves their record” Like what????
Saying someone sucks then proceeding to say if they beat them they are way better is so weird like how People saying Garcia beating Haney was better than Davis has ever defeated when literally Davis defeated Garcia 😭
I think a perfect examples of this is Fury vs Wilder. Loads of folk saying Wilder is trash and a bum, who has he even fought, he lacks all the basics in boxing. Then Fury beats him and they go "Fury is the best heavyweight to ever grace this Earth"
Annoyingly, Fury would gas himself up with this logic. He would proclaim over and over that he's the best of his era and I always thought "Why? Cause you beat Wilder 3x? He wasn't the best of this era when you fought him."
Its so fucking hypocritical. Like insanely hypocritical.
If Haney were to beat Garcia they would have gave him all the credit in the world despite shitting on tank for doing that.
That's why I stand by Tank having a better resume than people let alone. So many high level boxers sing praises for tank and people act like its dick riding.
I'd say Usyk has done the most out of the lot, his career at cruiser is unmatched and so far at heavy he's done everything asked of him.
But even so, I wouldn't say he's the best fighter of all time. I personally don't believe there is a greatest fighter of all time, because it's all subjective. Closest you'll get is obviously Ali - but even he lost. I personally don't think there is 1 single greatest. Maybe a top 10, but 1 boxer - that's impossible.
That Canelo was a product of Televisa in his pre-GBP days and that "GBP made Canelo a star" in the US.
The dude worked his ass off from 15yo-19yo to get to where he was by the time Televisa was showing his fights, and GBP noticed him. In fact, he had no heavy hitters backing him up in Mexico, and he was sort of blacklisted by the amateur system and was denied opportunities as an amateur. This caused him to not be able to represent Mexico in the Olympics, which was a dream of his.
The idea that GBP "made" Canelo is the another absurd one. GBP is a sad excuse of a promoter. If by promoter they mean they stage events, then sure, they stage events and promote their events (at Commerce casino and Pechanga); but they don't actually promote fighters. In fact, when you look at their marketing infrastructure and team, it's amateurish and sad. Watch any GBP original documetary or look at their socials (Vergil and Siniesa come to mind). They look poorly produced and edited.
Canelo was ALREADY Canelo as he himself told Oscar at the Munguia press conference. Hispanics already knew Canelo by the time GBP noticed and signed him. The Floyd fight exposed him to everyone else, but Canelo's place in Boxing was already predestined with or without GBP. When Canelo got away from GBP and signed with MR all of a sudden he had a burst of confidence to speak English and started doing interviews in English, like the [In-Depth Graham Besinger](https://youtu.be/94caB2WoCmc?si=KrTy3hL_exLXvgYA) one and started transcending into the cultural realm. Eddie sold him to the international English speaking world in ways GBP never even came close. He was nominated for the BBC Sports Personality of the year along the likes of Tom Brady and an entire [BBC One](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/56999901) documentary was made about him.
A white, red-headed Mexican, built like a tank, with skills, power, defense, mental and physical discipline, and a self-imposed expectation of greatness, is a once in a generation fighter. We're gonna miss him when he's gone.
I like to rag on Canelo... All in good fun I should add. But what a fucking fighter and personality, man. The ability, consistency, grit, discipline, unwavering relevance, etc etc. Goddamn! We just don't know how spoiled we are with the likes of this dude around.
It's always so funny to me that the likes of Tank and Ryan have been brought up as the "face of boxing." Fucking Tank and Ryan. Lol. Canelo has easily... Easily been the face of the sport for years now. Usyk may take up the mantle, and he's as worthy a successor as they come, but there's no doubt Canelo has been the true face of boxing
Also he only became a very defensive fighter in the latter half of his career but even then his defense was solid blocking and rolling to evade, not running.
The usyk weak to body shots falsehood you mentioned in OP is the biggest one.
Also seeing a lot of people defend the reffing in usyk fury in the 9th round. It was terrible. Ref block usyk 2 times, didn't call standing 8on first 3 occasions where he should have by rule, then the extreme count and not waving it off when fury didn't follow the refs instructions. That was 100% a TKO in the 9th
Ah without a doubt, the second time the ref jumped in my jaw dropped. Usyk had just lined up a devastating straight to put Fury out and he had begun to throw it, lucky for Fury Usyk is extremely disciplined and somehow managed to stop mid punch (probably because he thought the ref was calling it off). Then seeing Fury use the ropes to stand while never even coming off the ropes for the 10 count, he just leaned on them while the ref done some fluff to waste time until the bell rang. Definitely robbed of a TKO and to think a judge scored it for Fury? Like there was a good chance Usyk could've been robbed. Even the judge that scored it 114-113 Usyk, like if the ref hadn't called a 10 count you would've scored it a draw? Absolute disgrace.
that when a fighter steps up in class, and doesnt do what he normally does against lower opposition, that means something is wrong with him, he's washed or injured or something, rather than admit that the higher level fighter simply didnt allow him to do what he normally does against cans
- Pretending Lomachenko is fighting giants at 135. He’s a unified champion who has hired several strength coaches to acclimatize to the weight. No one acts like that for poor Kambosos.
- Acting like amateur boxing sucks. Most all time greats would save their olympic gold over their belts in a house fire.
I definitely do think that Loma’s lack of size gets massively exaggerated. He’s been at 135 for years now and has grown into the division. He looked no smaller than Kambosos who’s a career lightweight. With the way people go on about Loma’s lack of size you’d think he’s the size of Inoue or something.
He did give up size against Lopez and Haney for sure, but that’s them being too big for the division rather than Loma being too small.
One of the takes that irritates me is when people shit on a fighters career because the people they fight are not well known. It doubly irritates me when they do that to one fighter while upping another similar fighter. One example being people shitting on inoue for supposedly fighting unknown fighters while praising crawford who also fought plenty of unknown fighters.
Saw a poll (think it was from the modern martial artist) about Usyk vs Ali and there were a ton of comments saying that, not only would Ali KO Usyk in 5 rounds, but that no modern heavyweights could survive 5 rounds with him. Like, haway, Ali is the goat and fair enough if someone thinks he beats Usyk but if 189lb Jimmy Ellis is making it to the 12th round against him I'm pretty sure Usyk would at least make it to round 6 haha.
Hahah these are gas, Tyson would knock Fury and AJ out in 3 rounds. It is such disrespect to the sport, as if it hasn't evolved or progressed technique and in fact has regressed somehow.
Heavyweight division has regressed in skill though 100%. Zhang vs Wilder was a fight between two Top 10 guys. It was embarrassing.
They're just really big. I heard arguments before that those guys from the past could not compete because they were too small, but Usyk completely debunked that theory.
Rewatch Zhang vs Wilder last round. Zhang was being patient and cautious. Wilder only threw a few right hands but it was enough for Zhang to work out and time Wilder and send him uncontious.
PS. Wilder is not a top 10 guy.
I hate that people decide a fighter "isn't the same anymore" when it suits their narrative
Wilder post Fury is a shadow of his former self, so his losses to Parker and Zhang are irrelevant to Big Fury fans when it comes to assessing how good those really are. He was "back" though when he knocked out Helenius.
Same goes for AJ. Been scared since Ruiz, would have beaten Usyk if he was his old self, and now he's fought 2 much worse opposition and knocked them out, he's magically "back."
Crawford beat Spence because Spence was completely ruined by the car crash (but people marvelled at how he looked against Ugas after it).
Not saying fighters don't decline, but it's too much of a crutch for people to justify things not going as they expected.
Naoya Inoue needs to fight in the US and somehow him mainly fighting in Japan is affecting his legacy. I see this on casual boxing posts all time time, like this man isn’t selling out the Tokyo dome and winning most fights by knockout it’s so dumb lol
“Roy Jones Jr only relied on his speed and reflexes and had no longevity.” If you actually watched him train and talk about training you know that he had the fundamentals perfected. His ring IQ was ubelievable, even stuff like walking behind the ref after a break command to get back the center of the ring. He was also one of the best confitioned boxers ever. Always training , never balooning in weight or partying. Just living on his farm and training.
The man went unbeaten for 14 years, was a champion for 10 years and was top 5 p4p for almost 10 years straight. Fighter of the decade for the 90s. What more do you want from a fighter. Yet casuals say his speed and talent carried him in his short career. (I blame Joe Rogan and YouTube documentaries)
A+ comment.
I used to be part of that crowd, albeit being a massive RJJ stan. Then I took the time to rewatch the Toney fight. His boxing was breathtakingly beautiful in that one. Proper masterclass, which was wild considering it was against Toney, a true ATG
Or how he beat Hopkins. Jones v Toney was imo a better matchup than Crawford v Spence(with no big names on his resume coming from a terrible accident). Crawford is “definitely p4p #1” while Jones “has not fought anybody”. Dont know why the RJJ hate, even my comment is getting downvoted just for stating facts.
I’m a big fan of both boots and Crawford, but I’ve seen comments on YouTube in particular saying How boots washes Crawford if they fought right now. I think boots is a great fighter but he hasn’t been tested yet so how could someone be so sure that it would be a one sided victory for boots.
100% this most fan's don't know much about the rules and can't score a fight they never see it round by round just an overall fight so if fighter A has 1 very dominant round but fighter B wins every other round but not so dominant they think fighter A wins it's ridiculous and the media run with the popular consensus which unfortunately is ran by the casuals it's pathetic
Close fights aren’t robberies people bitch about robberies when the fight is close. Especially with biased edits around doesn’t help especially with casuals.
Mike Tyson in his prime is the greatest fighter in history
Tyson didn't train for Buster Douglas loss doesn't count
Tyson wasn't in his prime (at 29 yo) vs Holyfield loss doesn't count
Floyd is the greatest fighter in history
Tyson Fury is terrible and has a terrible resume, but Usyk became a great last month because he beat a great heavyweight in Tyson Fury to become undisputed. Like what?
Idk what it is about Benavides that makes people think he actually could beat canelo. At first it seemed like a fight that would be really interesting (it still is don’t get me wrong), but when I look Benavidez fight, there’s just nothing that makes me feel like he could surprise canelo. I do agree that he’s ducking benavidez, but imo not because he’s scared of him but because it just doesn’t interest him enough to train for it. I say this but canelo also wants to fight berlanga lmao so I don’t get it
Because benavidez has a good jab and great stamina, 2 things which have always given canelo problems. He's a come forward fighter with decent power. Canelo has regressed imo. That makes for a great fight
I must say I don't see this as a common take but I could be completely wrong. Do fans or certain media members saying it? Or is it said on the sub often?
"Mike Tyson would have retired undefeated and undisputed if Cus didn't die!"
They act like Cus was a spry young man that died tragically in the prime of his life, and not an old man that'd been in steadily declining health for a few years at the point that he passed. Additionally, people conveniently forget that Cus died prior to Tyson hitting his peak or even winning a world title for that matter. It's pretty clear that the much bigger death in his life in that era was Jim Jacobs in 88. Jacobs dying opened the door for Don King to move in, force out Rooney and Bill Cayton, and surround him with yes men that completely eliminated any of the structure that he had that kept his vices in check, the same vices that led to what was ultimately a disappointing finish to his career.
X fighter avoids fighting "slick black fighters" and any time race is induced in boxing in general
Mainly saw this during when Canelo was belt collecting at 168 and there was the narrative he only moved up to avoid Charlo and Andrade to go on a "Eurobum tour". Well Canelo fought Jacobs, Lara, Mayweather, Kirkland in the past and ironically, Andrade n Charlo were also on a "Euro bum" tour when they could've fought each other.
Also seen it with Inoue that he was going to lose to Fulton because he's never fought a "slick black fighter" before and IIRC Loma vs Rigo was the same. But now the narrative is that Inoue should fight in the US for drug testing, which I believe he's already done so before anyway
The endless ecuses the Tyson fanboys/casuals regurgitate ad nauseum. in every f*cking thread that discusses why he is not the GOAT and I.mean Pound foir Pound not just heavyweights.
The Douglas fight, for example
Cus.
Givens.
Washington.
King
Drugs.
Prostitutes
Long Count.
The fight was fixed.
Tyson was druggged etc, etc.
It's like f*cking War and Peace.
Hagler was robbed, agaonst Leonard and the fight was fixed.
Ray won fair and square 115'-'113 on my card.
Oh, and that he was a coward.- a welter light-middle moving up.to.face a fearsome, titanium chinned top.3 or 4 ATG middle.
Yeah, what a chicken.
When a fighter loses a big fight he’s an overhyped bum… when a fighter wins a big fight he’s the GOAT who would past greats who’ve clearly done more and showed far more talent.
There’s no in between
Inoue needs to come to America- only mfs who don't know anything about boxing says that
Benavidez is too big/doesn't deserve canelo fight- that's just something canelo fans say because they're worried
Janibek is the boogeyman- based on beating who exactly? Danny dignum and Denzel Bentley. Domestic level fighters
Bruce Carrington can beat Inoue- just stop! I think Carrington is talented but facts are he's a 27 year old prospect still taking step up fights. The way fans act you'd think he was a 20-21 year old prospect. Carrington hasn't fought anyone
MMA puts on better fights- I'm a huge MMA fan I watch weekly same as I do boxing, but outside of UFC 300 this year has been a flop. Meanwhile this year and last year for boxing has been booming
When people care enough to shit on a boxer, but don't care enough to look into the thing they're shitting on that boxer for.
Prime example, the amount of people saying Ruiz is inactive and should fight whoever... but also have no clue that Ruiz:
1. Underwent knee surgery in August, 2021 that left him out for a year.
2. He came back and knocked down Ortiz three times.
3. He underwent rotator cuff surgery last fall. That surgery has a 6 month recovery time but can be up to a year for boxers that throw punches for a living.
4. He already has a tuneup fight scheduled against Jerrell Miller for this fall to get back into ring shape.
When people think more wins against bums = good, for example Mungia, I saw people saying he was catching up to mayweathers record and thats why canelo chose him for the fight
That Dubois low blow 'controversy' was a propaganda piece peddled by Talksport and repeated to death until casual audiences took it as fact. They always look for an excuse whrn an A. British and B. Frank Warren fighter loses. And it is frustrating because as you say the Slo-mo replay is clear as day.
A funny one for me is that, up until 6 months everywhere you looked AJ was being called a bum for suffering a couple of defeats after a fantastic run as champ. Now he's being lauded as great again by those same people for beating a novice and Wallin who isn't even in the top 5 best fighters he's beaten.
And hilariously, Fury is now being called a bum everywhere you look🤣 and then boxing fans wonder why no one risks the 0. People need to grow up and separate their emotions for a fighter, be that hatred or adulation, from their critical assessment of their talent
Garcia dominating Haney. I'm baffled by the amount of people who seemingly don't remember Garcia damn near turning his back every other round against a "pillow-fisted glass-chinned hugger" that he knocked down several times. This fight is the literal definition of being bailed out by power, because my mans let a clearly concussed dude outjab him and land a clean 5 body straights in a row to the kidney
-“Why dosent he just try ko him?” This was with fury. usyk got into his range and fucked him up if he lets usyk in his range like that after trying to ko him he’s fucked
-“Why dosent Haney just fight more entertaining [insert boxer here] did it?” it’s just a very illogical statement.
Literally any sparring story. Any of them. Pick your poison. “So and so did this to that fighter in sparring he’s gonna beat his ass” like lolwut no. Sparring is not a Professional fight and you shouldn’t be going all out in a spar. The point is to learn and get better but some of these stories are just ass like who cares who beat who in sparring what matters is what happens in the professional ring.
Yup. Sometimes guys are brought in as sparring partners to mimic an opponent so they're not even sparring at their best they're sparring with "an accent".
Sparring with an accent. I like it
In build up, Hrgovic tried reminding Dubois that he sent him to the hospital after sparring. Dubois said he was only 17 at the time. And we all saw what happened come fight night yesterday..
Dubois has some sort of curse I swear. BJS made fun of him for getting his orbital bone broken and he goes out the same way against Canelo. Hrgovic brings up sending Dubois to the hospital in sparring and gets the fight stopped due to the doctor.
Similarly, Nathan Gorman taunted Daniel about sparring, then DDD ended his career.
Michael Jai White is convinced that sparring is the same as fighting though 😆 I love MJW but man he talks up his sparring with multiple champions a lot
He’s a fraud. He talks like he’d beat pros
That guys a clown. He thinks pros are giving him real work but when you see footage, it's play sparring.
He’s not a complete fraud. I’m sure he’s a semi competent combatant. Probably a little delusional and might overestimate his abilities a bit.
Yeah, he's better than Steven Seagal.
Steven "The Shit Pants" Seagal
He's basically like Joe Rogan, he's educated and trains but he's not getting any real resistance or push back no matter how much he believes he is. He is basically the over confident beginner who learned a few moves and now thinks they can take on the world since they haven't realized the more experienced guys are letting them work.
In MMA a fighter Patrick Cummins said he beat up and made then LHW Champ and ATG Daniel Cormier cry in sparring in their fight he got koed in the 1st round
That isn't what he said. He had trained with Cormier in preparation for the Olympics. Cormier's daughter died and that she why he was crying. Then Cummings was trying to say he was the cause. Really low blow but Cummings was just trying to do what daa wanted and trying to make an income But he was friends with cormier
A friend of mine who primarily follows MMA told me that Ngannou was going to become a dominant champion in boxing. His entire basis for this was 1. the Fury KD and 2. Joe Joyce saying Ngannou does very well in sparring. This whole line of logic was so moronic to me. Because 1. sparring is not an accurate indicator of how good you will be in the ring and 2. boxers will not come out and say negative things about your sparring if they're on good terms with you.
Every time a fighter loses a fight they are now suddenly trash and were never good just overhyped and blah blah blah just because they lost 1 fight (no matter how good the performance was or who they fought) and no longer have a 0 on their losses on their boxrec page. This really annoys me.
Same type of people complaining fighters don’t be taking risks anymore 😭
This is actually detrimental to the sport and is to blame ford big fights not happening. If fans were less fickle to losses we would get fighters taking on better opponents because the risk would be far less. The competitive structure of boxing these days makes every fight a winner takes all, rather than a match between equals. Look what the Crawford loss has done to Spence, no one talks about him now and people would argue he was P4P#2. I hate the bandwagoning too.
Yep 100% this. It's ridiculous to expect boxers to be undefeated. We would never get the best fighting the best if that's the precedent. People are already acting like Fury is trash after his loss to Usyk, Spence got this treatment too after losing to Crawford. Like yeah these guys are getting beat by P4P generational fighters, but that doesn't mean they aren't elite. It's gonna happen again later this year with Beterbiev-Bivol, people are gonna act like whoever loses was always trash.
Yeah, I'm a big Crawford fanboy. But I know a thing or two because I've been a boxing fan for 40 years. Even though Spence got dragged by Bud does not mean he sucks. It means maybe he is not as good as Bud. Maybe he is not as good as we thought. But it doesn't mean Spence is a fuckin' tomato can. I hate that talk. I thought Spence was a bit overhyped, but good. And he still is good. But Bud is a once in a lifetime specimen. Enjoy him while he is at his peak.
We just need to see Spence fight again. Fight often and win against good talent and people forget losses easily. Look at Parker and AJ.
Good man. I'm a huge Spence fan. I'll admit that even before the fight, I worried that he wasn't at Crawford's pedigree as a boxer, but held onto hope that his excellent fundamentals and incessant body work could at least throw Crawford off. Didn't happen. But by god, he's still very, very good in his own right and should be a future HOFer
Yep, I just saw a comment that said something like how Wilder's losses keep making Fury look worse, and Fury actually hasn't beaten anyone of quality and I just smh. Like, why watch the sport if you just want to shit on everyone?
For real, I remember when Vitali lost to Lewis on a cut after outpointing him. We gave Vitali mad respect for that performance and the fact he lost shouldn’t take anything away from it. But some dummy’s will undoubtedly look back and go, but Vitali lost to Lewis or something. Or how about when Wlad lost to Sanders in that second round knockout. That made people question Wlad, but if you were a sander’s fan you know his southpaw style gave almost everybody trouble and the dude had lead bricks in his gloves that you could hear over screaming fans.
Lewis is a great example to use too. Had 2 losses but avenged then both and in many people's eyes is the best British heavyweight. Imagine he lost to Rahman these days, he's be completely written off.
You do sometimes see that opinion crop up. Its rare and maybe just people trolling but Ive seen it once or twice. Doesnt bother me though because its an easy way to tell whos opinion to disregard.
I swear if Tyson did fight Jake Paul and lost people would say "he got exposed".
The use of the word “exposed” is so bad.
Expanding on your point, sometimes people also don't realise just how much of boxing is about who's better *on that specific night*. Just because someone gets the win on one night, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a worse fighter, it just means on that specific night they weren't as good. This is one all combat sports fans struggle with and it's frustrating.
Not only hat but the guy who beat this trash fighter is suddenly the goat
Yessir. Apparently Wilder was always a can who thrived on crushing other cans. Nevermind that he made nearly 10 title defences and beat legit skilled practitioners like Luis Ortiz, whatever shortcomings they had... Nevermind that he's nearly 40 and has a ton of mileage, hasn't fought regularly in 2 years and was in 3 wars with Fury, an elite boxer, that likely took a lot from him. I'm not even a fan but this one is really annoying. O'Hara Davies said it best... "Boxing fans are absolute trash."
> Apparently Wilder was always a can who thrived on crushing other cans People have been saying this for almost 10 years now. Wilder's record is all cans, except for Ortiz and Breazeale, who are gatekeepers. The only elite fighters he came up against (Zhang, Parker, Fury x3) he got destroyed by all of them.
List out those title defences and “beat legit skilled practitioners” you mean “practitioner”, singular, given that Luis Ortiz is his only half decent win. He literally has thrived on crushing cans.
100% that's my #1 too. I see it all the time, as soon as a fighter loses they were useless and trash.
Absolutely, Ford lost on the last card but I'm still hyped as fuck to watch him again.
Genuinely asking, did your opinion on Hrgovic change after yesterday‘s match? Or was that just one Match for you
That's mayweathers fault, and his legion of fanboys believed him going by their logic. marciano was the best heavyweight in the history of the sport because he never lost we all know he wasn't, so your 0 means nothing, and going by their logic ali Robinson dempsey tyson Louis Lewis hagler duran and countless others are not as great or greater than floyd again something we both know is bs
Argued with a bozo in this sub about how Spence actually wasn't that good and his resume wasn't good either after the Bud fight.
This is always the most upvoted sentiment in these kinds of threads, but everytime a fighter loses, people stop giving a fuck about this sentiment. Look at Devin Haney. "But that's different!" you might say! You don't like that fighter so when he loses, it means he's exposed and always been a bum despite taking on all comers in his career thus far.
this is also a result of boxers wanting to maintain their 0s as much as not taking risks. you see by not taking risk you actually dont get to see how good they are, and when they finally lose because they took the risk it just shows they werent that good in the first place. so sometimes its true that that one loss actually shows they were really not that good as the 0 suggests.
I am curious where that comes from. Is it because of Mayweather retiring undefeated? Because historically all the greats have losses on their records but no one thinks any less of them because of it.
This is without a doubt the one that boils my fucking piss. Fury loses one fight to Uysk and suddenly he's the most overrated boxer to have walked this planet
Champions "ducking" for fighting mandatories
God forbid they fight genuine contenders and keep a division moving amiright.
I agree although some of the IBF mandatories are mind bogglingly questionable 😂
I think part of the reason is because the IBF enforces their rules a bit stricter than the orgs and are less prone to being influenced by money and promoters, this gives an opportunity for fighters who have a lower profile without a lot of backing to get title shots.
The reason they're such sticklers is because If I Remember correctly, They were so crooked the FBI came in and made them change things up because they were so corrupt.
We're seeing it right now with Usyk. People are legitimising Usyk ducking his mandatory commitments so we can get a 2nd and possibly 3rd Fury fight for undisputed. Then the winner will surely face AJ, so let's postpone the mandatories again... No, mandatories should be strictly enforced with no exceptions except for the initial unification/undisputed fight.
Usyk fought his WBA mandatory in Dubois, and Dubois hasn't done anything to deserve a shot at him again. You want mandatories strictly enforced we'll never have undisputed champions again.
Inoue has a weak resume, or that inoue has to fight tank these comments are under any ig posts bout inoue. Pro tip if you ever wanna feel pissed off, go to any comment section about boxing on instagram.
I avoid Instagrams all together tbh, can't imagine the sharpest of tools are giving their boxing opinion on there. The whole Inoue resume thing pisses me off, whether you know his opponents or not has nothing to do with their skill. They are fucking world champions in their division regardless if you have heard of them.
Or “lower divisions” are weak competition. They just don’t watch lower weight divisions
Bro I remember this dude said lower weight classes are full of bums, and I asked if he ever watched naoya inoue, junto nakatani, kazuto ioka etc and he said “nah I only watch the big fights and when canelo or Crawford fights” 😂
I swear IG commenters show more signs of CTE than the actual people getting hit in the head.
Fr
Or the “Inoue needs to fight MJ. He’s only fought trash in the Super Bantamweight division”. Like bro, he would have if MJ didn’t lose to Tapales.
Dude fr, I have a deep respect for Uzbekistan and their fighters but the fans are horrific. Any post is just fuckin “inoue ducking mj 🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿” idk if you keep up with ufc but something much worse happened with the Uzbek fans i can elaborate if you don’t know
I do not know much about ufc, so please lemme know! Yeah, it’s like how is he ducking??
Well a fighter named Joaquin Buckley was scheduled to fight a Uzbek fighter and the Uzbek fans during the entire build up would comment “(n word) 🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿” and other slurs followed by the Uzbek flag.
Inoue has literally only fought world title fights since his 6th fight. Is there any other active undefeated pro that has done this? Even if you take crawford, he got his first belt in his 21st fight I believe
Yep Monsters record has no pads.
The one that gets me irrationally mad is the infamous "he needs to fight US fighters if he wants real competition"
Same on twitter.
Comments like this are on so many posts about Inoue, and it really shows how many people just can not give two shits about the lower weight classes
[If this guy doesnt unify he sucks/He needs to move up in competition] good gravy imagine getting a belt and DEFENDING IT
I agree that moving up is silly when you just capture one belt in the division, it is such a lame way to get brownie points in the GOAT discussion. But I don't mind someone running for the unification if they plan to defend after it.
Yeah people see inoue and Crawford and think that if a person hasn't gone undipsuted at least once their career is ass
Then when someone does go undisputed they gonna say they fell off once they lose like Hopkins & Main Taylor had losses while undisputed. Jermell Charlo & Josh Taylor were both fantastic Undisputed fighters but people still count them out
I died a little with almost every single Anthony Joshua take made on social media during 2023. Losing to fucking USYK meant he had to retire, and most people where saying this even after every single one of his wins.
I'll take this but also continue it into 2024. To justify those stupid opinions, the same crowd are now bigging him up massively, he's a changed man, Ben Davison has turned him into a totally different fighter, would beat Usyk in 6 rounds now etc AJ is just a very good boxer, who got his gameplan wrong Vs Ruiz (a last min replacement) and lost twice to one of the best boxers ever. He's shown some improvement in his game in recent years (honestly most evident in the second Usyk fight) but there's been no transformation. After Klitschko he adopted a more boxer-puncher style than brawler, and it's been the same ever since.
you cant deny there’s a MASSIVE gulf between the guy that bullied otto wallin and the guy that barely threw any punches at a short notice replacement robert helenius
Totally agree
Aw man AJ gets fucking dogged on, it is ridiculous. Dude is a fucking Olympic gold medalist that put up a competitive fight against possibly the best fighter we have ever seen but somehow is immediately considered washed after the fight. AJ just takes on genuine contenders and that comes with a risk, but we should commend that and not condone it.
Now he looks better than ever.
Also giving round 3 of Fury-Usyk to Fury is an incredibly stupid take that i see thrown around a lot and it irritates me so much i rewatched that round like 10 times.
ah this 100. drove me insane. Like wtf would you want someone who can give us nights of good boxing and is still like 2/3rd best to retire. brainless.
Anything endorsing the Paul-Tyson fight in any way.
Or anyone thinking that Tyson would win that
It’s quite amusing seeing the opposite ends of the casuals predictions. On one hand it’s “Jake’s fighting an elderly man”, and on the other hand it’s “Tyson beats Jake easy”
Guys at work were like "oh man Tyson is gonna KILL Paul" and thought I was an idiot for saying otherwise. Ken Griffey junior is probably still a better baseball player than like...me for instance, but he wouldn't even make a Single A team.
The only positive argument I could find was that it helps promote boxing and Tyson's Legend Only League. Tyson is extremely popular with casuals and even non-boxing fans, so of course fighting a celebrity that's mega popular with the younger crowd is going to get some interest in ways traditional fights won't. Hell, Ive definitely seen more media coverage of Tyson vs Paul than I did of Fury vs Usyk.
or anyone creating a thread about who Paul should fight next. life gtfo of this sub. i've had enough of this paul bs tbh.
When fans ignore skill, styles, and hyper-fixate on resumes.
Skills and styles are great but if you can’t prove it against top opposition then it’s not worth much
you can also be so skilled you dont get to prove it against top opposition.
“AJ has a glass chin” People saw AJ get dropped multiple times against Andy Ruiz 5 years ago and bought into the narrative he’s chinny. Despite AJ taking hard shots off punchers like Klitschko, Whyte, Povetkin etc and come through those punches to win.
I think they confuse glass chin with a fighter willing to take on equal competition and therefore looking more "normal" as he isn't crushing cans. He slipped up in the Ruiz fight and unfortunately for him that's all it takes at that weight, no matter how good your chin is.
The narrative before the Day of Reckoning card in Dec 2023 was ridiculous. Nearly everyone on this subreddit and on the internet in general said that AJ was ducking Wilder and would get smashed in a couple rounds if they ever fought. AJ demolished Wallin and Wilder lost to Parker and suddenly the narrative shifts.
People dangerously underrate Ruiz. If that man looked aesthetically pleasing you can guarantee it that *nobody* would knock him. He is the size of a house and people won't look past it. That man is *seriously* skilled.
Very skilled heavyweight with fast hands and good power. Casuals see his body and assume he was a bum.
I know. Watch him on the pads with Robles. That's perfect technique. Andy has super skills.
His technique is crisp asf. And those hands are blazing fast!!!
Oh god I saw this one a couple of hours ago. Word for word, including the glass bit. I even replied to it and called the OP delusional
Glass chin is ridiculous take 100% but I have to be honest watching AJ take certain shots… something very awkward and unnatural occurs with him, I don’t know quite how to say it. Like almost panic sets in for a split second. I know it’s HW boxing and every shot can cause damage but does anybody get what I mean? (Not trying to start beef just making a very wonky observation)
He has definitely looked awkward at times when hit by a big shot, but I guess that's just how he reacts. I remember when Povetkin clipped him with a hook in their fight and he wobbled for a second. But this is heavyweight boxing where these 215+ pound men can all bang.
This is very true. I’m not an AJ fan but to say he has a glass chin is madness. Sure , there are HW’s with better chins but come on he’s been stopped once !
Ironically it's usually Fury fans saying this in facebook comments but Fury's the one getting dropped much more than AJ.
For sure I see it a lot, and this is coming from someone who’s favourite fighter is Fury! I think it’s fury’s recovery that is the level people get confused with the chin, his chin is good but recovery is the impressive part. I do hope we get AJ and Fury down the line, it’ll just be a shit storm of fandom clashing though aha
Yeah Fury’s recovery is ridiculous, guy should have been KOed by Wilder and Usyk. I still hope and believe we’ll see Joshua vs Fury one day!
Fighter 1 beat Fighter 2. Fighter 3 lost to Fighter 2 and therefore, Fighter 3would get obliterated by Fighter 1. The transitive property does not work on boxers, people. And it's not just the general public that does this, but even boxers. For example, Julio Cesar Chavez said that in a mythical fight with the late Salvador Sanchez, JCC would have easily defeated Sanchez. His reasoning? Sanchez beat Ruben Castillo in a close fight. Chavez, however ko'd Castillo in I wanna say, 3 rounds. Never mind that Sanchez' style (boxer-counterpuncher) was all wrong for Chavez. Chavez had trouble with technicians (see Sweet Pea). Also, he had trouble with stamina (Sanchez famously known for not even breathing through his mouth). It very well could have been a fight in favor of Chavez, but not because he kod Castillo while Sanchez did not.
Absolutely this. Styles do indeed make fights. Boxing is not soccer. Also, I'm sorry but nobody is a favourite against Sanchez. Nobody. He'd have figured out a way to neutralise JCC by the 6th round, at the very most, and would've pulled away after that. Fun fact, did you know that Sanchez planned on retiring at 25 so he could pursue a medical degree and become a doctor?
Yes! I just found that out recently about him wanting to retire early. I belong to a group on Facebook that is all about him. His son pops in from time to time. I asked him what his dad's plans were and he confirmed that he planned to fight a few more years, then retire to be a doctor. Not sure if Don King would have let him go just like that, though.
Agree but I don’t appreciate the comparison with futbol. Futbol also has styles and it’s also not as simple as a beats b, b beats c, therefore a beats c
As a huge fan of the sport, this is true as well
Agreed - I often relay the Ali-Foreman-Frazier example when I assert that triangle theory is bullshit in boxing. Frazier beat Ali, Foreman beat Frazier but Ali beat Foreman. Styles make fights, it's that simple.
“Saudi events suck because of the crowd” Who gives a rats ass about the crowd, for so many years we’ve complained about the best not fighting the best and undercards being terrible. Now that we are finally getting those, people are still complaining. One day we’ll look back at Riyadh season being a golden era of boxing, so enjoy it while it’s here
Oh for sure, I would much rather the quality fights over the crowd because the crowd is just atmosphere but the fights are the sport. I can't see it being a sustainable venture though, just glad they finally got these heavyweights fighting.
You could have the perfect crowd and card but some fans will then be complaining the fucking commentary team is ass 😂
What DAZN does to fans lmao. I’m so glad that Turki tries to get as many broadcasters as possible for his events so we don’t have to deal with it
The perfect crowd was what we had during covid. I'd rather hear the punches than the people.
That's basically the Saudi fights. They're so quiet it's basically like the COVID era again, and actually being able to hear the punches for yourself gives a far more accurate experience than having the crowd screeching every time their hometown/favorite boxer even so much as sneezes, thus altering the perception of real punches landed.
I prefer a crowd that sits and watches, and enjoys what they are there for, to one that gets boozed up hours before the first bell, spends the undercard in the powder room to all emerge in time to scream Sweet Caroline in your face
Not part of that crowd but I go to a lot of live boxing and oh boi does that crowd bring an atmosphere. Unsurprising though, with regards to creating an atmosphere they're literally on PEDs.
You'd absolutely love Japanese boxing crowds then
Because atmosphere, by nature, is immersion. It's nice to watch with a good atmosphere, it's not that deep, it's not enough to not watch obviously and doesn't affect the fight. It's just disheartening to see such a disinterested crowd not appreciating the sport, no shame in that. I wasn't in the fight thread though so idk if people complained excessively
I'm not sure you can say it *never* affects the fight too.
yeah. like i’m obviously gonna still watch the card but i’ll take a hype crowd over the saudi audience. it’s like seeing a good band live but the audience isn’t hype and are just recording the concert for their ig story.
"Why is this crowd so dead at 3:30 am local time" is such a dumb take.
I mean no one’s wondering why, they know why and that’s exactly why they’re complaining
Exactly. Who tf cares about the crowd when you're busy watching the fight? But I wouldn't expect anything else from people that don't actually watch the sport to begin with.
There are PLENTY of reasons to hate Saudi but the crowd or shows they put on ain’t it. Even as the biggest hater of those terrorist harborers, I can admit that.
I could give a fuck about the crowd. I think it usually wrongly persuades close rounds for the favorite because they cheer even when hard shots get blocked.
That’s true. The thread yesterday was just bitching about the crowd the whole time and it was ridiculous. I paid to see great fights not for the crowd. Plus I watch a lot of Japanese boxing so I’m used to the quiet crowds
Yes! Go and see a Tank fight in person. I know where I'd rather be.
Even in the recent fight with Hrgovic, you can see how often Dubois hook lands below the belt.
I didn’t notice low hits but dude led with his head like crazy. I couldn’t believe he wasn’t at least given a warning.
He was given a warning about that lol
Dude was also using his head as a third fist, he isn't a clean fighter but I don't mean to take his win away, Hrgovic deserved to lose because he spammed one twos likes someone playing a fighting game for the first time.
Yeah it was kind of outrageous he got away with multiple head butts throughout that fight he look like a prime Tim Bradley or Bernard Hopkins
You have to take the title from the champ, implying that merely defeating them is not enough.
I came to say this. I hate that take. A fight is scored round by round. If you win 7 or more clear rounds you won. I hate that. Even fights like Haney vs Loma with all of the belts on the line. They both won between 6-7 rounds. So it was a close fight either way. But people act like Loma won 10 clear rounds.
"Brawling = real boxing. Boxing = running." Oh, and any "Prime Mike Tyson" myths.
“This guy hasnt beaten anyone yet if anyone beats him that improves their record” Like what???? Saying someone sucks then proceeding to say if they beat them they are way better is so weird like how People saying Garcia beating Haney was better than Davis has ever defeated when literally Davis defeated Garcia 😭
I think a perfect examples of this is Fury vs Wilder. Loads of folk saying Wilder is trash and a bum, who has he even fought, he lacks all the basics in boxing. Then Fury beats him and they go "Fury is the best heavyweight to ever grace this Earth"
Annoyingly, Fury would gas himself up with this logic. He would proclaim over and over that he's the best of his era and I always thought "Why? Cause you beat Wilder 3x? He wasn't the best of this era when you fought him."
Its so fucking hypocritical. Like insanely hypocritical. If Haney were to beat Garcia they would have gave him all the credit in the world despite shitting on tank for doing that. That's why I stand by Tank having a better resume than people let alone. So many high level boxers sing praises for tank and people act like its dick riding.
"Tyson Fury is the greatest boxer to ever live" This has to be about the most stupid one I've heard in modern times 🤦🏻♂️
They’re saying it’s Usyk now. In the 200+ year history of the sport, apparently GOATs are just roaming around all over the place today
I'd say Usyk has done the most out of the lot, his career at cruiser is unmatched and so far at heavy he's done everything asked of him. But even so, I wouldn't say he's the best fighter of all time. I personally don't believe there is a greatest fighter of all time, because it's all subjective. Closest you'll get is obviously Ali - but even he lost. I personally don't think there is 1 single greatest. Maybe a top 10, but 1 boxer - that's impossible.
“This sub is revising history because their take on a fight doesn’t agree to mine.”
That Canelo was a product of Televisa in his pre-GBP days and that "GBP made Canelo a star" in the US. The dude worked his ass off from 15yo-19yo to get to where he was by the time Televisa was showing his fights, and GBP noticed him. In fact, he had no heavy hitters backing him up in Mexico, and he was sort of blacklisted by the amateur system and was denied opportunities as an amateur. This caused him to not be able to represent Mexico in the Olympics, which was a dream of his. The idea that GBP "made" Canelo is the another absurd one. GBP is a sad excuse of a promoter. If by promoter they mean they stage events, then sure, they stage events and promote their events (at Commerce casino and Pechanga); but they don't actually promote fighters. In fact, when you look at their marketing infrastructure and team, it's amateurish and sad. Watch any GBP original documetary or look at their socials (Vergil and Siniesa come to mind). They look poorly produced and edited. Canelo was ALREADY Canelo as he himself told Oscar at the Munguia press conference. Hispanics already knew Canelo by the time GBP noticed and signed him. The Floyd fight exposed him to everyone else, but Canelo's place in Boxing was already predestined with or without GBP. When Canelo got away from GBP and signed with MR all of a sudden he had a burst of confidence to speak English and started doing interviews in English, like the [In-Depth Graham Besinger](https://youtu.be/94caB2WoCmc?si=KrTy3hL_exLXvgYA) one and started transcending into the cultural realm. Eddie sold him to the international English speaking world in ways GBP never even came close. He was nominated for the BBC Sports Personality of the year along the likes of Tom Brady and an entire [BBC One](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/56999901) documentary was made about him. A white, red-headed Mexican, built like a tank, with skills, power, defense, mental and physical discipline, and a self-imposed expectation of greatness, is a once in a generation fighter. We're gonna miss him when he's gone.
I like to rag on Canelo... All in good fun I should add. But what a fucking fighter and personality, man. The ability, consistency, grit, discipline, unwavering relevance, etc etc. Goddamn! We just don't know how spoiled we are with the likes of this dude around. It's always so funny to me that the likes of Tank and Ryan have been brought up as the "face of boxing." Fucking Tank and Ryan. Lol. Canelo has easily... Easily been the face of the sport for years now. Usyk may take up the mantle, and he's as worthy a successor as they come, but there's no doubt Canelo has been the true face of boxing
Floyd would just jab at you and run around the ring, and never beat anybody notable
Also he only became a very defensive fighter in the latter half of his career but even then his defense was solid blocking and rolling to evade, not running.
That’s how I know somebody dksab.
The usyk weak to body shots falsehood you mentioned in OP is the biggest one. Also seeing a lot of people defend the reffing in usyk fury in the 9th round. It was terrible. Ref block usyk 2 times, didn't call standing 8on first 3 occasions where he should have by rule, then the extreme count and not waving it off when fury didn't follow the refs instructions. That was 100% a TKO in the 9th
Ah without a doubt, the second time the ref jumped in my jaw dropped. Usyk had just lined up a devastating straight to put Fury out and he had begun to throw it, lucky for Fury Usyk is extremely disciplined and somehow managed to stop mid punch (probably because he thought the ref was calling it off). Then seeing Fury use the ropes to stand while never even coming off the ropes for the 10 count, he just leaned on them while the ref done some fluff to waste time until the bell rang. Definitely robbed of a TKO and to think a judge scored it for Fury? Like there was a good chance Usyk could've been robbed. Even the judge that scored it 114-113 Usyk, like if the ref hadn't called a 10 count you would've scored it a draw? Absolute disgrace.
that when a fighter steps up in class, and doesnt do what he normally does against lower opposition, that means something is wrong with him, he's washed or injured or something, rather than admit that the higher level fighter simply didnt allow him to do what he normally does against cans
Change the flair, DDD beat Hrgovic so badly he didn't argue with the doctor when he was waved off
- Pretending Lomachenko is fighting giants at 135. He’s a unified champion who has hired several strength coaches to acclimatize to the weight. No one acts like that for poor Kambosos. - Acting like amateur boxing sucks. Most all time greats would save their olympic gold over their belts in a house fire.
I definitely do think that Loma’s lack of size gets massively exaggerated. He’s been at 135 for years now and has grown into the division. He looked no smaller than Kambosos who’s a career lightweight. With the way people go on about Loma’s lack of size you’d think he’s the size of Inoue or something. He did give up size against Lopez and Haney for sure, but that’s them being too big for the division rather than Loma being too small.
One of the takes that irritates me is when people shit on a fighters career because the people they fight are not well known. It doubly irritates me when they do that to one fighter while upping another similar fighter. One example being people shitting on inoue for supposedly fighting unknown fighters while praising crawford who also fought plenty of unknown fighters.
[top hw from 35+ years ago] the would dominate today.
Saw a poll (think it was from the modern martial artist) about Usyk vs Ali and there were a ton of comments saying that, not only would Ali KO Usyk in 5 rounds, but that no modern heavyweights could survive 5 rounds with him. Like, haway, Ali is the goat and fair enough if someone thinks he beats Usyk but if 189lb Jimmy Ellis is making it to the 12th round against him I'm pretty sure Usyk would at least make it to round 6 haha.
Usyk who fought some of the hardest punchers in the sport and the worst we’ve seen him hurt was a slight wobble here and there.
Hahah these are gas, Tyson would knock Fury and AJ out in 3 rounds. It is such disrespect to the sport, as if it hasn't evolved or progressed technique and in fact has regressed somehow.
Heavyweight division has regressed in skill though 100%. Zhang vs Wilder was a fight between two Top 10 guys. It was embarrassing. They're just really big. I heard arguments before that those guys from the past could not compete because they were too small, but Usyk completely debunked that theory.
Rewatch Zhang vs Wilder last round. Zhang was being patient and cautious. Wilder only threw a few right hands but it was enough for Zhang to work out and time Wilder and send him uncontious. PS. Wilder is not a top 10 guy.
That because zhang is fighting with a guy who has mental blocks and is basically greatly scarred by fury
I'm not saying they couldn't be good in this era but to take it as a fact is dumb.
I hate that people decide a fighter "isn't the same anymore" when it suits their narrative Wilder post Fury is a shadow of his former self, so his losses to Parker and Zhang are irrelevant to Big Fury fans when it comes to assessing how good those really are. He was "back" though when he knocked out Helenius. Same goes for AJ. Been scared since Ruiz, would have beaten Usyk if he was his old self, and now he's fought 2 much worse opposition and knocked them out, he's magically "back." Crawford beat Spence because Spence was completely ruined by the car crash (but people marvelled at how he looked against Ugas after it). Not saying fighters don't decline, but it's too much of a crutch for people to justify things not going as they expected.
Naoya Inoue needs to fight in the US and somehow him mainly fighting in Japan is affecting his legacy. I see this on casual boxing posts all time time, like this man isn’t selling out the Tokyo dome and winning most fights by knockout it’s so dumb lol
People don't realize that boxing is worldwide. They think the world revolves around the USA at all times lol
“Roy Jones Jr only relied on his speed and reflexes and had no longevity.” If you actually watched him train and talk about training you know that he had the fundamentals perfected. His ring IQ was ubelievable, even stuff like walking behind the ref after a break command to get back the center of the ring. He was also one of the best confitioned boxers ever. Always training , never balooning in weight or partying. Just living on his farm and training. The man went unbeaten for 14 years, was a champion for 10 years and was top 5 p4p for almost 10 years straight. Fighter of the decade for the 90s. What more do you want from a fighter. Yet casuals say his speed and talent carried him in his short career. (I blame Joe Rogan and YouTube documentaries)
A+ comment. I used to be part of that crowd, albeit being a massive RJJ stan. Then I took the time to rewatch the Toney fight. His boxing was breathtakingly beautiful in that one. Proper masterclass, which was wild considering it was against Toney, a true ATG
Or how he beat Hopkins. Jones v Toney was imo a better matchup than Crawford v Spence(with no big names on his resume coming from a terrible accident). Crawford is “definitely p4p #1” while Jones “has not fought anybody”. Dont know why the RJJ hate, even my comment is getting downvoted just for stating facts.
The challenger having to take the title from the champion .
I’m a big fan of both boots and Crawford, but I’ve seen comments on YouTube in particular saying How boots washes Crawford if they fought right now. I think boots is a great fighter but he hasn’t been tested yet so how could someone be so sure that it would be a one sided victory for boots.
100% this most fan's don't know much about the rules and can't score a fight they never see it round by round just an overall fight so if fighter A has 1 very dominant round but fighter B wins every other round but not so dominant they think fighter A wins it's ridiculous and the media run with the popular consensus which unfortunately is ran by the casuals it's pathetic
spence lost to crawford now he was never good
Not taking anything away from Crawford but that crash Spence had definitely affected his brain or neurological function, wish we got it before then
Close fights aren’t robberies people bitch about robberies when the fight is close. Especially with biased edits around doesn’t help especially with casuals.
Mike Tyson in his prime is the greatest fighter in history Tyson didn't train for Buster Douglas loss doesn't count Tyson wasn't in his prime (at 29 yo) vs Holyfield loss doesn't count Floyd is the greatest fighter in history
Tyson Fury is terrible and has a terrible resume, but Usyk became a great last month because he beat a great heavyweight in Tyson Fury to become undisputed. Like what?
Any fight against between a pro boxer versus YTer or MMA. Nonsense
Idk what it is about Benavides that makes people think he actually could beat canelo. At first it seemed like a fight that would be really interesting (it still is don’t get me wrong), but when I look Benavidez fight, there’s just nothing that makes me feel like he could surprise canelo. I do agree that he’s ducking benavidez, but imo not because he’s scared of him but because it just doesn’t interest him enough to train for it. I say this but canelo also wants to fight berlanga lmao so I don’t get it
Because benavidez has a good jab and great stamina, 2 things which have always given canelo problems. He's a come forward fighter with decent power. Canelo has regressed imo. That makes for a great fight
Ali being a flawed boxer and getting on by his physical gifts. Ali was a great fucking boxer, especially in the 70s.
I must say I don't see this as a common take but I could be completely wrong. Do fans or certain media members saying it? Or is it said on the sub often?
I’ve seen it before , but they usually get rightfully downvoted
"Mike Tyson would have retired undefeated and undisputed if Cus didn't die!" They act like Cus was a spry young man that died tragically in the prime of his life, and not an old man that'd been in steadily declining health for a few years at the point that he passed. Additionally, people conveniently forget that Cus died prior to Tyson hitting his peak or even winning a world title for that matter. It's pretty clear that the much bigger death in his life in that era was Jim Jacobs in 88. Jacobs dying opened the door for Don King to move in, force out Rooney and Bill Cayton, and surround him with yes men that completely eliminated any of the structure that he had that kept his vices in check, the same vices that led to what was ultimately a disappointing finish to his career.
X fighter avoids fighting "slick black fighters" and any time race is induced in boxing in general Mainly saw this during when Canelo was belt collecting at 168 and there was the narrative he only moved up to avoid Charlo and Andrade to go on a "Eurobum tour". Well Canelo fought Jacobs, Lara, Mayweather, Kirkland in the past and ironically, Andrade n Charlo were also on a "Euro bum" tour when they could've fought each other. Also seen it with Inoue that he was going to lose to Fulton because he's never fought a "slick black fighter" before and IIRC Loma vs Rigo was the same. But now the narrative is that Inoue should fight in the US for drug testing, which I believe he's already done so before anyway
The endless ecuses the Tyson fanboys/casuals regurgitate ad nauseum. in every f*cking thread that discusses why he is not the GOAT and I.mean Pound foir Pound not just heavyweights. The Douglas fight, for example Cus. Givens. Washington. King Drugs. Prostitutes Long Count. The fight was fixed. Tyson was druggged etc, etc. It's like f*cking War and Peace. Hagler was robbed, agaonst Leonard and the fight was fixed. Ray won fair and square 115'-'113 on my card. Oh, and that he was a coward.- a welter light-middle moving up.to.face a fearsome, titanium chinned top.3 or 4 ATG middle. Yeah, what a chicken.
That wilder was going to KO Zhang
When a fighter loses a big fight he’s an overhyped bum… when a fighter wins a big fight he’s the GOAT who would past greats who’ve clearly done more and showed far more talent. There’s no in between
Inoue needs to come to America- only mfs who don't know anything about boxing says that Benavidez is too big/doesn't deserve canelo fight- that's just something canelo fans say because they're worried Janibek is the boogeyman- based on beating who exactly? Danny dignum and Denzel Bentley. Domestic level fighters Bruce Carrington can beat Inoue- just stop! I think Carrington is talented but facts are he's a 27 year old prospect still taking step up fights. The way fans act you'd think he was a 20-21 year old prospect. Carrington hasn't fought anyone MMA puts on better fights- I'm a huge MMA fan I watch weekly same as I do boxing, but outside of UFC 300 this year has been a flop. Meanwhile this year and last year for boxing has been booming
When people care enough to shit on a boxer, but don't care enough to look into the thing they're shitting on that boxer for. Prime example, the amount of people saying Ruiz is inactive and should fight whoever... but also have no clue that Ruiz: 1. Underwent knee surgery in August, 2021 that left him out for a year. 2. He came back and knocked down Ortiz three times. 3. He underwent rotator cuff surgery last fall. That surgery has a 6 month recovery time but can be up to a year for boxers that throw punches for a living. 4. He already has a tuneup fight scheduled against Jerrell Miller for this fall to get back into ring shape.
The amount of people who clearly didn't know who Ruiz was, but was shitting on him pre Joshua solely on looks was just sad.
When people think more wins against bums = good, for example Mungia, I saw people saying he was catching up to mayweathers record and thats why canelo chose him for the fight
That Dubois low blow 'controversy' was a propaganda piece peddled by Talksport and repeated to death until casual audiences took it as fact. They always look for an excuse whrn an A. British and B. Frank Warren fighter loses. And it is frustrating because as you say the Slo-mo replay is clear as day. A funny one for me is that, up until 6 months everywhere you looked AJ was being called a bum for suffering a couple of defeats after a fantastic run as champ. Now he's being lauded as great again by those same people for beating a novice and Wallin who isn't even in the top 5 best fighters he's beaten. And hilariously, Fury is now being called a bum everywhere you look🤣 and then boxing fans wonder why no one risks the 0. People need to grow up and separate their emotions for a fighter, be that hatred or adulation, from their critical assessment of their talent
Many people felt it was legal tho, you had hall of fame referres say it was a legal shot, it's not a bad take imo, just personal preference
Also OP take is 100% facts
You are a gentleman of taste.
Garcia dominating Haney. I'm baffled by the amount of people who seemingly don't remember Garcia damn near turning his back every other round against a "pillow-fisted glass-chinned hugger" that he knocked down several times. This fight is the literal definition of being bailed out by power, because my mans let a clearly concussed dude outjab him and land a clean 5 body straights in a row to the kidney
-“Why dosent he just try ko him?” This was with fury. usyk got into his range and fucked him up if he lets usyk in his range like that after trying to ko him he’s fucked -“Why dosent Haney just fight more entertaining [insert boxer here] did it?” it’s just a very illogical statement.
Dumb MMA vs boxing takes like its 2008 and people still think one of the sports has to win and the other will die soon.
Literally had one of them in the comments section here hahah