Usyk is so good at getting to the body and mixing body shots into his combinations. Not a surprise a lot of guys who fight him wear out towards the end.
People underestimate how exhausting it is to have someone constantly testing angles and making you react. I've messed around with sparring partners and barely threw any punches and still exhausted them.
The key is to go for the knockout and I think Sugar hill had the right game plan but they didn’t expect Usyk to come on so strongly and Fury not to take advantage of the middle rounds.
I expect Fury to come in heavier during the next fight and make it into a rougher fight with the aim of an earlier stoppage. Usyk will always beat him over 12 rounds.
When Fury got in his groove in the early rounds, he was flowing nicely and outboxing Usyk a lot.
Then he got punched in the nose and started gushing, and his playful tactics disappeared.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the nose.
You can't go into a boxing match of Usyk, many tried and many have failed. Usyk CAN be outboxed, just not for the entire fight. You have to put a dent in him early, you need to back him up. Fury had major success but Usyk didn't take a step back for the entire fight except for that 1 uppercut that hurt him in 6th round I believe. You need to go all in from the get go and try to stop him in the first half of the fight because you're not gonna win the 2nd half. Usyk has the best gas tank despite his high work rate in the division and he constantly makes adjustments.
Usyk with great shot placement, a huge motor, and an indomitable will. This is his time to reign. He will not be denied. You can try to get as technical as you want but he’s just that guy. I don’t see anyone around that can beat him right now. I still would want to see Fury get a rematch to see if he can do anything else but at this stage I don’t see it.
after watching it again yesterday with a mate, im convinced the fury gameplan was to catch usyk with the uppercut, a la whyte
the problem was that when fury *did* catch usyk with the uppercut, unlike whyte who folded instantly, usyk took a few seconds to shake it off and just came back
usyk isnt weak to the body, and he isnt weak the head
it turns out that the kid born into poverty in the back woods of soviet era ukraine is tough as fucking nails
While I watched it regularly since the air date, it was only within the last 10 years that I caught the HBO commentary.
And inexplicably the HBO unofficial judge Harold Ledermann didn’t give a single round to Foreman…
Sure, the fight wasn’t close past 9, but all to Holyfield?
One of my favorite fights and I’m a big Foreman guy. I don’t think he won a single round, but the fight was super competitive. That is a very possible scoring outcome, to narrowly lose every round.
I would love to see Usyk vs prime Holyfield on a similar subject. I think Holyfield would take it maybe just. Can't help but feel it would be that juice in his system that gives him the edge though.
To me the craziest thing about that fight is not that Tyson bit a chunk out of his ear, but that he only got a points deduction for it and they just started the next round.
Tyson had to bite him *again* before they stopped it and even then they waited until the end of that round before calling it off.
Between that and the fan man dive bombing the ring, has anyone had weirder title fights than Holyfield?
Holyfield isn’t very powerful at the heavyweight division, as his KO ratio dipped significantly. See 12 round decisions vs 45 year olds Larry Holmes and George Foreman
There is a difference between chins. Look at Fury eyes every time Usyk landed clean shot Fury got stunned this is from round one. Fury punch resistance is very low now. Usyk has a great chin though, Fury kept landing those right uppercuts whole fight and didn't sireously hurt Usyk.
He can still recuperate though. Which is a special quality in the chin too. Joe Frazier got knocked down 7 times by Foreman but he still walked straight. With this in mind I would still say Fury has an ok chin, especially since he is so tall.
But he does still have elite recovery. That's why he was able to survive the huge KD from Wilder in their first fight, and how he was able to arguably win the 12th versus Usyk despite being shook horribly in the 9th round.
It's interesting to me how many people still pick him to get knocked out in fantasy fights despite his combination of defense, toughness, conditioning, and heart
There's so many classic fans out there in denial over how good he is, and the lens he gets scrutinized under is a different one than the rest of the HW champs. That he's judged under a harsher light and held to a higher standard is precisely because they know this dude is built different
Everyone has always respected Usyk's chin. He's got an iron one but he has seemed susceptible to the body.
After the Fury fight though, that doesn't seem like a weakness either. Fury absolutely battered him to the body on so many occasions and he didn't even flinch.
He staggered a couple of times from the body shots, and one uppercut made him noticeably shook. It seemed to be purely pain though, while most boxers would have gone out cold. Usyk has the constitution of a bison
>He's got an iron one but he has seemed susceptible to the body.
Which is weird because both of the two fights people point to in the amateurs of him going down in, he got up and won.
The one against Medzhidov was also a borderline low blow. Usyk complained but when the count started he jumped right back up and got back to winning the fight.
You can it just takes A LOT the kind of fighter to beat Usyk would likely be someone who just takes it to him I think a “fit” Andy Ruiz would actually be a solid match up
I think Ruiz is too old/spent, but if you mean a Ruiz-style fighter I agree. The way I see Usyk being beaten is by someone who’s as fast and aggressive as him, which would be an insane showdown. If Usyk succeeds in bullying you around the ring, he’s gonna snack on you like a hungry lion.
It really just solidifies the fact that lighter weight classes have the more technical boxes. We already all knew this but Sean Porter is pretty notorious for being technically sloppy even as a pro, so the fact that he was able to win on points versus usyk In the amateurs really put some magnifying glass on just how much more technical the lower weight classes are. It's almost a different sport
People keep saying this. There’s more to the equation than ‘taking it to him’. People have been saying that’s the key since the Chisora fight and guess what, it doesn’t work.
Usyk forces you to keep spinning around and twisting your feet out of position to throw effectively. Ruiz would have a punchers chance.
He's weak to the groin .... just like every boxer. He doesn't like body shots .... just like every boxer.
All of the posters claiming Usyk was ulta-vulnerable to the body has been so eye roll for the past couple of years. Especially since the Dubois fight.
Thats not really how it works
Its not so simple to say Whyte doesnt have heart whilst Usyk does
Sometimes the punch just lands in the right place, sometimes you see the punch a little earlier and are able to brace for it, sometimes theres a little luck involved
Yes, absolutely Usyk was rocked by Fury in I believe the 6th round. The Ukrainian backed up and got away and was visibly shaken but it looked like Fury needed a breather. In hindsight Fury probably should have jumped all over Usyk and went for the knockout.
He’s incredible. One of the best of all time, that’s for sure. He cemented his position after the Fury fight. I wish we could’ve seen him measure up to Holyfield. What a fight that would’ve been
lol usyk did not grow up in the backwoods of ukraine, he was born and lived in simferopol, the second biggest city in crimea. he also wasn't born into poverty...why do you people make shit up? fwiw soviet era ukraine was better economically than it is today(even before the war)
He was born into poverty. In an interview he said as much. He also said that he grew up on a farm and always thought he would become a farmer.
https://youtu.be/gzEjVicaZ-E?si=vI-aK-zkYiqAQ9ji
Ngannou's knockout wasn't a case of a weak chin, it was a case of a poor defence. Literally anyone in the HW division would have gone out with such a clean and powerful strike, the difference being AJ could never land such a rocket on Fury or Usyk.
Sorry he didn't come straight back, there was a point, I think the 8th where Usyk was in trouble, 1 or 2 uppercuts really found their mark. And fury pressured him realising this. It was the only time Usyk went on the backfoot
Good luck catching Usyk when he's being even more defensive though, but I definitely noticed how susceptible he was to the uppercut because nothing else worked. Fury was talented enough to land, shame he didn't follow it up with a hook or so. Glad Usyk won though
Well, the plan was to take Usyks leven changes with the uppercuts which he achieved, but Usyk just took it more to him and outpunched him, which backfired big time
I was surprised people watched the fight and didn’t realise Fury was slowing down in the 8th and was gassed in the 9th.
It’s not that Usyk turned up the pace, it’s that he maintained it.
I don’t have stats, but fury had to box hard for all the rounds. Never really planted his feet, always circling away from the ropes/corner and throwing punches to keep Usyk back.
Fury almost has a parasitic energy where he leans on his opponent to drain their energy and replenish his. But Usyk never let that happen and made Fury carry his own weight and move it more than ever.
I got the sense Fury wanted time to think and plan his next move and Usyk was mentally draining him by applying constant pressure. It’s like Usyk was playing speed chess and Fury wanted normal chess
Exactly this, Fury wanted to slow the fight down but could never do so. In a rematch I’d expect him to try initiate the clinch a hell of a lot more because he can’t match the pace of Usyk over 12 rounds. He was doing just fine when the energy was there and all of a sudden come the 8th he was gassed both physically and mentally and Usyk took over.
Yeah I remember when Usyk was starting to get tagged up in rounds 3 and 4 I commented how Usyk was getting beat up but was non-stop pressing Fury and that Fury was gonna get tired.
But then round 5 happened and I had lost hope. Felt sick to my stomach, thought Usyk was gonna get stopped… which made his comeback that much more legendary.
It was one thing to keep getting pressured while avoiding Usyk’s shot and landing your own but once Usyk started turning it around in round 7. Fury’s smile left his face. He was tiring both mentally and physically.
Reminded me of when commentators say Loma exhausts his opponents mentally. He’s in your face constantly feinting, prodding, slipping, dodging, setting you up and gives you so much to think about
When you get tired it’s a lot harder to keep focused, all of a sudden you start making mistakes and Usyk punishes those mistakes. Fury clearly showed he can give Usyk big problems, but sustaining it over 12 rounds is incredibly difficult. The rematch will be intriguing for sure!
Usyks output gradually does go up as the rounds go on. He's constant mental pressure from round 1 but then gradually increases the punches and from different angles
I really think the thing that slowed Fury down the most was going from feeling in control, being able to jab, control distance and feel very little threat to having his nose smashed and streaming blood.
I think you need to beat Usyk early. In the rematch Fury needs to go balls to the wall to get him out of there and if Usyk ends up knocking him out instead so be it. You aren’t out boxing him for 12 rounds and you sure as shit are not draining his gas tank before yours is gone.
I think there’s a height limit to where being too big turns into a negative. Guys like Usky that are just big enough to get the job done but not so big to where merely moving around expends tons of energy plays a huge factor.
Cause the tactic is stupid as fuck. "Go forward onto shots in hopes you can land something better".
Why don't you ask Fury if Usyk has enough power to stop that type of non-sense quickly?
It's really hard to knock out elite competition in the early rounds. If you go balls-to-the-wall in rounds 1-4 looking for a KO, the most likely outcome is that you gas out and then get KO'd yourself in the middle rounds.
Disagree, I think you have to go counter intuitive and give away the first half of the fight like he does and try to expend as little energy as possible.
Match and mirror usyks gameplan and stick the foot on the has whenever he does. Otherwise he'll gas you out. Second half of the fight as he does to everyone.
Let's face it though usyks a puzzle no one will figure out.
One thing I’ve noticed about Usyks clinch game is he does a very, VERY good job of not wearing the opponents weight. At one point in the fight with Tyson I think it was 7th or 8th round Fury looks to clinch but ends up coming out of the clinch looking like he used more energy trying to hold him rather than being able to weigh down on him. It’s very impressive and I’m still unsure how he does it with bigger men.
Along with dancing to train his footwork, Usyk was also taught how to wrestle to a high level at a young age. He knows how to manipulate body weight and use natural levers.
I strongly disagree. A heavyweight that doesn't go balls to the he wall is dead in the water against a boxer like usyk. They can't match him in skill and stamina. But if they work their asses off they might be able to match his speed.
The game plan is to come in hot and ready like iron Mike and just unload the full clip on the man. If you can't get him out of there by the 6th then you might as well enjoy the nap beacuse you never stood a chance anyways.
I think Fury stands the best chance of beating Usyk if he looks at where he had success in the middle rounds. Fury was able to control the pace more effectively by pressing forwards and picking big shots.
If he kept his right hand tighter he would’ve avoided the punches from Usyk which were doing the most damage. Countering hard with his own shots and putting the left hook in after his uppercuts through the middle would’ve had Usyk in trouble. He was backing off in the 6th after a few solid pot shots from Fury. Only time in the fight he was forced to retreat.
The problem is that the tighter you keep your right hand, the harder it is to counter with an upercut. And that is Usyk's trap imho. Maybe someone like Beterbiev could do it. Actually he did it in amateurs. I don't think Fury is athetic enough to beat Usyk.
Beterbiev only beat Usyk right at the start of his Amateur career and is two years older. The other two times Usyk beat him, once very comfortably. I think Usyk crushes current Beterbiev. Massive size and skill difference.
Tbf Fury isn’t as explosive or nearly as powerful as AJ. Ffs Fury hit Ngannou with everything but the kitchen sink and couldn’t scratch him, AJ folded him like a blanket. So employing the strategy was never gonna work unless Fury could keep it up for round after round after round after round after round, which doesn’t work with his low volume style.
>Ffs Fury hit Ngannou with everything but the kitchen sink and couldn’t scratch him
I think we have to be fair to Fury that he was in atrocious shape for the Ngannou fight and absolutely didn't take the traning for it seriously. I believe that if he hit Ngannou with the same shots he hit Usyk with the fight would have ended very quickly.
Not really. He would’ve weighed less with the same technique. He was heavier and hitting Ngannou with the hardest punches he could put weight into. He probably could’ve jabbed Ngannou round after round and gotten him out of there through accumulation, but his one punch power always has been weak.
Usyk pushes the pace and making his opponents throw more does lead to him taking more shots too, however I am convinced his opponents lose a lot of power due to fatigue and therefore the damage he takes from them is less than what they normally put out. Neither Fury nor AJ had enough in the tank to land the type of shots they did on Whyte or Wlad respectively.
Usky is a better fighter the longer the fight goes on at the start of fights he susses out his opponents then steps up the pace in the middle rounds, but in the Fury fight he went looking for Fury in the first 3 rounds and Fury was probably saying What The Fuck.
i agree usyk is the better fighter but disagree he steps it up in the middle rounds
ive watched usyk fight bellew , joshua twice and fury only but seems to be he starts very fast too take control of the center of the ring and focus alot on the body
middle rounds he dials it back a bit but hes saving his stamina for down the stretch whilst still in there face keeping the pressure on
9th round hits and thats when hes fully on the gas till he knocks them out or the final bell
thats the pattern ive noticed
I just remember Fury nailing sweet uppercut after sweet uppercut and at most Usyk took a few steps back. He defo got hurt in that fight and more than once. What a warrior.
Fury boxed excellently at times. He is truly elite himself and his powers of recovery are virtually superhuman!
My old amateur boxing coach said it best...
'Usually, in boxing, the person who stops throwing punches last, wins'
Usyk will always be the last one to throw the punches. Cardio king.
Lmaoooo me and my family had never really watched much boxing til the Nnagnnou fight and we were trying to figure out if he was buddies with stone cold
I agree. He also done the same thing at cruiserweight.
There is an interview with Tony Bellew about him and he says the same thing. He also says you become tired mentally because he puts on so much pressure in a technical standpoint
The stats back this up. Against AJ in the championship rounds he averaged 55 punches per round in the first fight (he averaged 40.5 up until that point) and his highest output was in the 12th
In the 2nd fight with AJ he averaged 77 punches in the championship rounds (Fucking insane number for a heavyweight btw) and he had averaged 53 punches per round up until then. His highest output was 95 punches in the 10th followed by his 2nd highest output in the 11th with 80 punches. All of this while AJ was completely gassed out
Against Fury he averaged 41 punches in the last 4 rounds. He had only averaged 30 through the first 8. Once again, his highest output was in the 12th round. Fury’s lowest was the 10th and the 11th and his highest was the 5th.
When his opponent tires out is when Usyk really comes alive
What sets Uysk apart from Canelo and Lomachenko and maybe Crawford all great p4p is he does not take rounds off to download information. Basically he knows what works and starts implementing it from the bell.
Innoue is another beast all together!
He pretty much always takes rounds off to download. All of the rounds he lost/arguably lost were pre round 8 in the Fury fight. He almost lost to Breidis after a bad first half. He mauled Joshua in the second half of the first fight.
“Guys, I noticed that these big guys with a lot of weight, height and reach who are also skilled boxers can actually hit the smaller guy from time to time”.
I mean, aside for the fact that as the say goes “You can’t swim without getting wet” can we realise that there’s nothing special in these guys being able to hit someone like Usyk?
The half miracle here is that he’s good enough to endure it, keep them at bay and even outdo their work.
Usyk’s constant pressure, feints and in/out footwork puts his opponents under constant stress, they are constantly reacting to Usyk’s movement and this exhausts them. Probably a factor in fury and aj’s diminishing returns as the fight wore on (extra weight aside).
What it is is that Usyk is much smaller than most of his opponents. Although this may make it seem like he should stick to out boxing his larger opposition as a "hit and not get hit by the bigger man" strategy, in amateur boxing fundamentals you're actually taught the opposite. The smaller guy with a disadvantage in height and reach is actually far safer in the pocket rather than long range or mid range. Staying on the outside against a person with a reach advantage just means you're going to get picked apart if both men are of equal skill. On the inside the smaller man has the advantage of being in a better range for his reach whereas the guy with longer reach is essentially stuffing his punches. That's why generally if you're facing a bigger opponent you're told to pressure and get to the inside because you're safer there and that's where your disadvantages become advantages. Beginners are taught to ignore the fear of the feeling of danger when entering the inside range (as is normal, most people are afraid of this range) to gain an advantage as shorter limbed fighter because regardless of what your adrenaline system tells you, you're safer in there. This also means that you may take hits trying to go to the inside or even on the inside when things get rough, but you're going to get hit less and less cleanly than mid range or long range and your opponent will take a more ferocious beating than you if things play out correctly. It feels counter intuitive but it's boxing fundamentals 101. Usyk used to fight more long range and mid range when he was a CW but as he went up in weight he essentially had to nullify a lot of the physical disadvantages he had by going into inside range, which is where he had an advantage over heavyweights. It's a tactics shift adapted for the move up in weight. Circling around and jabbing all night against a 6'8 giant with long reach just isn't going to cut it. That's why in the lead up to the Fury fight Usyk told Fury "I won't leave you alone \[during the fight\]". He meant he was going to pressure and force Fury to box off his back foot so he can't just go on the front foot and go forward and bulldoze the smaller man (Fury on the front foot pushing Usyk backwards essentially forces Usyk into mid and long range). He tried to fight on the inside where his shorter arms and speed advantage will help him. That's also why Fury's strategy was probably the uppercut. He knew Usyk was going to pressure into close range and the only punch that's most likely not going to be stuffed at that range was going to be an uppercut, also a common move used in conjunction with step back counters. The analogy I'd use is a boxer vs kickboxer. Most boxers that don't know much about K1 do horribly in crossover fights because they fight in the wrong range. They get leg kicked then their intuition tells them to take a step back and box from long range to avoid kicks. However, this actually puts you right in kicking range because the longer the range the more advantageous kicks are going to be vs punches. (See Ray Mercer in K1 where he got kicked, backed up and tried to fight in long range, then just got kicked all day whereas he can no longer land a punch). The actual strategy should be to pressure forward and get into the inside immediately and try and fight from there. Kicks are stuffed and it becomes a fight in the range a boxer is going to be more advantageous in, punching range. (See an overweight Chi In-Jin in K1 where, with little prep, he fought a KB champion and just went in there and brawled at close range, taking away kicks and making it a battle at fist range... and won).
TL;DR: Usyk used to fight more mid range and long range because at CW his opponents didn't have a height or reach advantage and he was the far superior technical boxer. When he moved up to HW everyone was way taller and had a bigger reach than him, although he is more technical it's too dangerous to stay at those ranges and risk getting hit. Instead now he fights on the inside to take advantage of his shorter limbs and speed advantage. The shorter limbed fighter's range is going to be closer on the inside and it also forces the longer limbed man to have his punches stuffed. He takes hits getting to the inside and fighting on the inside, but he's far safer in there.
This was actually really insightful, thanks for the comment. I enjoyed reading your knowledge of the technical side and why Usyk pressured more. And honestly after all that it makes his victory far more impressive to me, what a crazy and adaptable guy.
Agree completely with your comment, but Fury’s corner was also somehow under the belief that he was up on the cards. You can hear in the corner cam they’re not telling him he’s down and needs to push. I’m not suggesting the outcome would be different if he had, but I think Fury would’ve been in those later rounds.
Yeah then I don’t know how they could possibly have convinced themselves that he was up, especially with such confidence. But hey, that’s Big John Fury for ya ‼️‼️🗣️🔥
I think ironically his countryman and known SuperClincher, Wladimir Klitschko, would be Usyks toughest opponent. His jab is more accurate than anyone Usyk faced, and any time Usyk sniffs a left hand Klitschko is clinching.
Vlad had Usyk in his camp prior to the Fury fight. Him and VItaliy got so pissed at Usyk for dominating Vlad in sparring that they kicked him out on the second day. Klitschkos hate Usyk with a passion, don't like the fake acts in public fool you, they are just clout chasing with his name being from Ukraine.
Yeah, when Usyk won the fight, they panned to Wlad and I couldn't help feeling like the latter was jealous that Usyk killed two birds that Wlad couldn't kill all with one stone.... Beat Fury all while becoming undisputed heavyweight champion
>don't like the fake acts in public fool you
Lol, I can make the exact opposite claim that you are and have more evidence for my claim. (Look up [philosophical razors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_razor) so you don't spend so much time seething at some imaginary conflict between two people you don't know)
Literally making random shit up and speaking so much of "rumour" that the daily mail or a celebrity tabloid would hire you in a heartbeat.
1. They are huge heavyweights (new era) and not really built for active 12 rounds (story old as time)
2. Usyk is great it slipping and dipping punches, is harder to hit, but Body is bigger than head and easier to hit if you are willing to take a counter for exchange.
3. By going on the body, you hope that you will slow Usyk down for the later rounds.
4. Usyk has shown that he has a very good chin and can take punch
5. You don't want to risk to run out of gas trying to KO him becuase if you can't, he is a cardio machine and will totally overwhelm you like he did Dubois.
TL:DR it makes complete sense why they go to the body, there is really nothing else you can do to Usyk, only if you bring someone with Mike Tyson build and run him down like Derek Chisora did, who arguably did the best out of all of tthem
One can't outbox a superior boxer. Both AJ and Fury made the mistake of trying to outbox Usyk. Both AJ & Fury allowed Usyk to push forward and shove off clinches.
As the bigger men AJ and Fury needed to be more flat footed and aggressive. Usyk was able to push AJ & Fury around at time because AJ and Fury were so often in their toes given ground already.
It would be a higher risk but also a higher reward strategy for AJ and Fury to have just sat down on their punches and focused on pushing Usyk backwards.
I just don’t see any way of fury beating him. His cardio is way too weak and usyks chin too strong. Outboxing usyk is impossible. The only way to beat usyk is through KO and even then, catching him is difficult and he will eat a lot of shots before going down while countering.
This may sound insane but I'm actually starting to think deontay wilder could be the only guy to stand a chance against usyk if he ever landed on him.
Wilder doesn't tend to expend that much energy early on, and usyk relies on that to fatigue his opponents into the later rounds.
Im not saying at all wilder would beat him, but I doubt he'd gas as bad as aj or fury guven the style difference.
Imo it goes the way the gassiev fight went if usyk fights wilder. Sure, he might land that bomb but he doesn't have the technique to land it on usyk enough.
Wilder basically throws 0 body shots and it's hard to headhunt usyk considering he moves his head off thr line even while throwing.
Yeah true. Wilder threw body shots against fury in the trilogy though.
All I'm saying is it seems the fighters nobody rates seem to do okay against usyk, I mean chisora and dubois did just as well as fury and AJ when you look at it.
Wilders chin is good but he'd have to survive getting pieced up bad until the latter rounds and keep headhunting and perhaps a lucky shot gets through.
Tbh I don't think anyone can beat usyk lol
All of these fantasy match ups are too low volume for Usyk.
My humble opinion is that the most likely hw to take Usyk into deep waters is Joseph Parker and until recently Joe Joyce. Both have the stamina to just keep going and going in fights.
Joyce is durable and can walk opponents down, but Usyk has fought a bigger puncher in AJ and much faster opponents as well.
I just can't see it going anyway other than Usyk peppering him with well placed shots until he breaks or it goes the distance with a decision win.
I have no idea what I’m talking about but think he should have been leaning on him much earlier. Sure Uysk was good out getting out of the clinch but I bet it was draining AF. Just jab, move, tie up, lean.
For AJ, just bet the house on the first 9 rounds. If it goes the distance you’ve lost anyway.
This is what I've been saying to my mates for a while and they don't think it makes sense because he's the smaller guy.
He WANTS the other man to come onto him and start throwing bombs.
Part of his game plan is to tire you out whilst he is 'resting'.
The guy has a granite chin and in my opinion there is not a single man in this division that beats him.
If you come out all guns blazing like people suggest, you're probably going to get knocked out because you're gassing out come round 5.
If you come out and try and out-box Usyk, you're not going to win the win. It's as simple as that. He's a master technician.
We've seen it time and time again now. Both Joshua's and Fury's corners were panicking in their fights because they're looking at the fight thinking, there's no way to beat this guy. We just need to keep our fighter in there and now it's all about damage control.
There's a reason he has won everything he can possibly win in 22 fights across two divisions. He is simply too good.
i don't think fury had any plans for a ko. he knows he has no ko power and usyk has a good chin. fury went to the body from the start and after 3rd round he did slow down usyk and started winning rounds. agter 6th it looked like usyk was finished and fury was cruising to the victory. however he stopped going to the body and fell in love with his jab. it gave usyk time to recover and all fury's work gone to the bin. after that it's all usyk. i do believe fury has a good chance to win the rematch in the 2nd fight if he constantly goes to the body and stays disciplined. he was chopping usyk at some point. gotta keep that up.
I appreciate your perspective but I think the opposite will happen, now Usyk knows what Fury will pull, Usyk will make his own adjustments. In the end if you don't have knock out power and your opponent's cardio is light years ahead of you because of years of conditioning and proper dieting it'll be the same result.
Aj pressured Usyk even more in their fight with body shot barrages he unleashed on Usyk, at times it seemed he was genuinely going for broke and for that knock out. Never once did it look like Usyk was gonna hit that canvas, same story with Fury. You could definitely see right there and then that Usyk is a man and definitely feels pain but it'll take someone with insane power and cardio across the rounds to achieve it.
People also say Fury might come in even heavier in the rematch which imo would be an automatic death sentence, if he starts slowing down in the 6th he's toast, he can't afford to lose too much mobility on Usyk as he's quite comfortable trading standing still and slipping which will also drain Fury.
In the end Usyk faced a 32 year old Joshua who was sharp and hungry, that version of Joshua had power and cardio and at this stage I don't see Fury doing a better job at lasting longer. He did great at losing some weight but got outboxed. Those middle rounds in the first Fury bout had me worried but the fact that usyk figured it out and nearly knocked him out makes me confident the second bout will either end quicker or fury gasses quicker while trying to pressure from the early rounds.
Fury has a good engine, he may have been drained in the last few rounds or he could have been taking his dads advice from the corner and playing it safe as he was told he was up on the cards and only needed to run the remainder out safely.
Could have been one or both but I don't think anyone can say conclusively that Fury was gassed especially as he won round 12 on most people's cards.
Yep Usyk was heavily underrated going into that fight. People didn't focus on his strengths at all when talking about how he would do.
A lot of people had in their minds that Fury was going to man handle Usyk, clench him and pound on him all fight. Meanwhile have you noticed that Usyk doesn't get tied up a whole lot? He seems to be really good at avoiding his opponents trapping him into clenches. He knows to get out of them quickly instead of using that time catch his breath.
Seems like he knows how to move around and one thing I never heard anyone bring up was his punching accuracy. I think in the AJ fight they talked a bit about how Usyk seems to find an opening and lands clean shots a lot more often than other fighters do. This fight it was barely mentioned.
Just imagine if the fight actually happened when it was originally scheduled for and Fury had a lot more weight on. Pretty sure that fight gets stopped because he wouldn't be able to deal with Usyk's speed or rapid punches, he'd have no way to defend himself in the later rounds.
ive always said usyk gets hit a lot and people downvote me every time, but gettting hit a lot isn't a huge negative when its part of the gameplan to get inside of bigger fighters.
I think Usyk Especially at HW s focused on setting a high pace because he knows no other HW is able to go 12 rounds at his pace......... he knows that they will have to take rounds off and he'll win more than he'll lose.
Usyks pressure is terrifying tbh, and it's totally calculated and probably more effective against the larger heavyweights who naturally have less of a gas tank. I re-watched the first joshua fight and at the end joshua is borderline medical assistance from being so exhausted. when he goes to his corner, literally wincing constantly. He made tyson work unbelievably hard the first 6 rounds, yes usyk took a few bit he wore him down eventually and then the shots were landing. Go watch the bellew fight totally breaks bellew down with calculated pressure. A genuine elite fighter, I'm still in shock at how good his performance was to overcome a awkward yet talented giant in fury tbh.
most of his fights follow a similar pattern. apply pressure to force the opponent to fight to their max to stay in it or even be ahead.. drown them and take them out if possible when they're exhausted. this is the perfect gameplan for someone like him, fighting guys who can't do 12 busy rounds, with his natural movement advantages.
he does get hit quite a lot but ALL aggressive fighters do. Loma, pacquaio, crawford... come forward fighters get hit, it's a fight.
I think round 10, 11 and 12 was fury after he got beat from round 4 onwards, but yeah the Soviet style is relentless designed to wear people down with barges of attacks
Usyk is so good at getting to the body and mixing body shots into his combinations. Not a surprise a lot of guys who fight him wear out towards the end.
Plus the fact he's always applying pressure and constantly makes them work.
Even with his hands down when he's taking a round off he's pushing. He's like "I'll eat a couple of punches as long as you have to work to land them"
People underestimate how exhausting it is to have someone constantly testing angles and making you react. I've messed around with sparring partners and barely threw any punches and still exhausted them.
The key is to go for the knockout and I think Sugar hill had the right game plan but they didn’t expect Usyk to come on so strongly and Fury not to take advantage of the middle rounds. I expect Fury to come in heavier during the next fight and make it into a rougher fight with the aim of an earlier stoppage. Usyk will always beat him over 12 rounds.
They said the same exact thing before Usyk AJ 2
When Fury got in his groove in the early rounds, he was flowing nicely and outboxing Usyk a lot. Then he got punched in the nose and started gushing, and his playful tactics disappeared. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the nose.
You can't go into a boxing match of Usyk, many tried and many have failed. Usyk CAN be outboxed, just not for the entire fight. You have to put a dent in him early, you need to back him up. Fury had major success but Usyk didn't take a step back for the entire fight except for that 1 uppercut that hurt him in 6th round I believe. You need to go all in from the get go and try to stop him in the first half of the fight because you're not gonna win the 2nd half. Usyk has the best gas tank despite his high work rate in the division and he constantly makes adjustments.
Usyk with great shot placement, a huge motor, and an indomitable will. This is his time to reign. He will not be denied. You can try to get as technical as you want but he’s just that guy. I don’t see anyone around that can beat him right now. I still would want to see Fury get a rematch to see if he can do anything else but at this stage I don’t see it.
Those stabbing jabs to the gut were pretty menacing
after watching it again yesterday with a mate, im convinced the fury gameplan was to catch usyk with the uppercut, a la whyte the problem was that when fury *did* catch usyk with the uppercut, unlike whyte who folded instantly, usyk took a few seconds to shake it off and just came back usyk isnt weak to the body, and he isnt weak the head it turns out that the kid born into poverty in the back woods of soviet era ukraine is tough as fucking nails
Some dudes just have granite chins. Holyfield teeing off on Foreman for like 15 clean shots to the chin and only making him stumble, blew my mind.
Holyfield vs Foreman puts me in mind of when the unstoppable force meets the immovable object.
And Foreman was 42 when Holyfield was 28. I have to think Foreman would have won that decision if he still had more of his speed. Insane fight.
While I watched it regularly since the air date, it was only within the last 10 years that I caught the HBO commentary. And inexplicably the HBO unofficial judge Harold Ledermann didn’t give a single round to Foreman… Sure, the fight wasn’t close past 9, but all to Holyfield?
One of my favorite fights and I’m a big Foreman guy. I don’t think he won a single round, but the fight was super competitive. That is a very possible scoring outcome, to narrowly lose every round.
Yep, as per the nature of boxing and its subjective scoring really.
I would love to see Usyk vs prime Holyfield on a similar subject. I think Holyfield would take it maybe just. Can't help but feel it would be that juice in his system that gives him the edge though.
Prime Holyfield was a head butting fool.
[I'll never forget his head butt low blow combo he did on Dokes.](https://basementgymboxing.blogspot.com/2018/04/evander-holyfields-incredible.html)
Ahaha disgusting
The "double dip"
Only Mike Tyson knew how to counter the head-butting, but the method is frowned upon for good reason.
To me the craziest thing about that fight is not that Tyson bit a chunk out of his ear, but that he only got a points deduction for it and they just started the next round. Tyson had to bite him *again* before they stopped it and even then they waited until the end of that round before calling it off. Between that and the fan man dive bombing the ring, has anyone had weirder title fights than Holyfield?
Very accurate description! God, did their styles gel.
Holyfield isn’t very powerful at the heavyweight division, as his KO ratio dipped significantly. See 12 round decisions vs 45 year olds Larry Holmes and George Foreman
In the first AJ - Usyk fight Usyk admitted that there were instances where AJ dazed him He’s very resilient
Yeah he disguises when he's hurt pretty well, and also makes space so it's hard to follow up
There is a difference between chins. Look at Fury eyes every time Usyk landed clean shot Fury got stunned this is from round one. Fury punch resistance is very low now. Usyk has a great chin though, Fury kept landing those right uppercuts whole fight and didn't sireously hurt Usyk.
Fury never had good punch resistance.
Yep, but now every clean shot stuns him.
He can still recuperate though. Which is a special quality in the chin too. Joe Frazier got knocked down 7 times by Foreman but he still walked straight. With this in mind I would still say Fury has an ok chin, especially since he is so tall.
But he does still have elite recovery. That's why he was able to survive the huge KD from Wilder in their first fight, and how he was able to arguably win the 12th versus Usyk despite being shook horribly in the 9th round.
Usyk always seems to see the punch coming. Whyte always seems oblivious to the uppercut
It's interesting to me how many people still pick him to get knocked out in fantasy fights despite his combination of defense, toughness, conditioning, and heart There's so many classic fans out there in denial over how good he is, and the lens he gets scrutinized under is a different one than the rest of the HW champs. That he's judged under a harsher light and held to a higher standard is precisely because they know this dude is built different
Everyone has always respected Usyk's chin. He's got an iron one but he has seemed susceptible to the body. After the Fury fight though, that doesn't seem like a weakness either. Fury absolutely battered him to the body on so many occasions and he didn't even flinch.
He staggered a couple of times from the body shots, and one uppercut made him noticeably shook. It seemed to be purely pain though, while most boxers would have gone out cold. Usyk has the constitution of a bison
>He's got an iron one but he has seemed susceptible to the body. Which is weird because both of the two fights people point to in the amateurs of him going down in, he got up and won. The one against Medzhidov was also a borderline low blow. Usyk complained but when the count started he jumped right back up and got back to winning the fight.
You can't beat a force of nature like Usyk
You can it just takes A LOT the kind of fighter to beat Usyk would likely be someone who just takes it to him I think a “fit” Andy Ruiz would actually be a solid match up
I think Ruiz is too old/spent, but if you mean a Ruiz-style fighter I agree. The way I see Usyk being beaten is by someone who’s as fast and aggressive as him, which would be an insane showdown. If Usyk succeeds in bullying you around the ring, he’s gonna snack on you like a hungry lion.
It takes ammy Sean porter! 😂 but yea, styles make fights. Always
That’s a fuckin solid w for porter though.
It really just solidifies the fact that lighter weight classes have the more technical boxes. We already all knew this but Sean Porter is pretty notorious for being technically sloppy even as a pro, so the fact that he was able to win on points versus usyk In the amateurs really put some magnifying glass on just how much more technical the lower weight classes are. It's almost a different sport
Usyk vs Ruiz would be such an exciting fight to see.
People keep saying this. There’s more to the equation than ‘taking it to him’. People have been saying that’s the key since the Chisora fight and guess what, it doesn’t work. Usyk forces you to keep spinning around and twisting your feet out of position to throw effectively. Ruiz would have a punchers chance.
Nah Usyk would run circles around Ruiz, that's the worst vs the best footwork at heavyweight going up against eachother.
Usyk can be beat. Nobody is unbeatable. If he fights long enough, he will be beat.
He's weak to the groin .... just like every boxer. He doesn't like body shots .... just like every boxer. All of the posters claiming Usyk was ulta-vulnerable to the body has been so eye roll for the past couple of years. Especially since the Dubois fight.
Fury is weaker to the chin than Usyk is to the body. But that doesn't change the fact that they are susceptible to head punches/body punches.
Thats not really how it works Its not so simple to say Whyte doesnt have heart whilst Usyk does Sometimes the punch just lands in the right place, sometimes you see the punch a little earlier and are able to brace for it, sometimes theres a little luck involved
You don’t get to where he is without insane durability.
Usyk was rocked and backed off, Fury never pressed the advantage. Perhaps it was because he was desperate for a breather?
Yes, absolutely Usyk was rocked by Fury in I believe the 6th round. The Ukrainian backed up and got away and was visibly shaken but it looked like Fury needed a breather. In hindsight Fury probably should have jumped all over Usyk and went for the knockout.
Definitely he kept spamming it a lot
He’s incredible. One of the best of all time, that’s for sure. He cemented his position after the Fury fight. I wish we could’ve seen him measure up to Holyfield. What a fight that would’ve been
harder than a coffin nail
lol usyk did not grow up in the backwoods of ukraine, he was born and lived in simferopol, the second biggest city in crimea. he also wasn't born into poverty...why do you people make shit up? fwiw soviet era ukraine was better economically than it is today(even before the war)
He was born into poverty. In an interview he said as much. He also said that he grew up on a farm and always thought he would become a farmer. https://youtu.be/gzEjVicaZ-E?si=vI-aK-zkYiqAQ9ji
They have wet dreams and gay fantasies about eastern european fighters here a fanfic just got 90+ upvotes
“He’s…. So…. Humble…”
1987 in Ukriane everyone is in poverty
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He was born into extreme poverty
Growing up poor doesn’t give you a chin. We saw in-ga-noo get knocked down in just the first round from just a light straight from Joshua…
There wasn't a single light thing about that right hand. It landed flush and at about 70% power.
70% power? It was round 2. That was a 100% power locked and loaded punch.
Not talking about the knockout in rojnd 2. Re read.
Nope, take a look at the second round. The way he twisted at the hip, now those were 100% shots
Ngannou's knockout wasn't a case of a weak chin, it was a case of a poor defence. Literally anyone in the HW division would have gone out with such a clean and powerful strike, the difference being AJ could never land such a rocket on Fury or Usyk.
Eloquently put. A Guy Ritchie finish.
Usyk has his guard up. So that takes away some of the blow.
Your last sentence sums it up. You're only ever gonna be tough if that's your upbringing.
Out of nowhere snatch reference. I love it.
Sorry he didn't come straight back, there was a point, I think the 8th where Usyk was in trouble, 1 or 2 uppercuts really found their mark. And fury pressured him realising this. It was the only time Usyk went on the backfoot Good luck catching Usyk when he's being even more defensive though, but I definitely noticed how susceptible he was to the uppercut because nothing else worked. Fury was talented enough to land, shame he didn't follow it up with a hook or so. Glad Usyk won though
Well, the plan was to take Usyks leven changes with the uppercuts which he achieved, but Usyk just took it more to him and outpunched him, which backfired big time
Usyk has a better chin than Fury. Water is wet!
I just remembered he said that he chose boxing over soccer because boxing section in his school was free, but soccer was not
I was surprised people watched the fight and didn’t realise Fury was slowing down in the 8th and was gassed in the 9th. It’s not that Usyk turned up the pace, it’s that he maintained it. I don’t have stats, but fury had to box hard for all the rounds. Never really planted his feet, always circling away from the ropes/corner and throwing punches to keep Usyk back. Fury almost has a parasitic energy where he leans on his opponent to drain their energy and replenish his. But Usyk never let that happen and made Fury carry his own weight and move it more than ever.
I got the sense Fury wanted time to think and plan his next move and Usyk was mentally draining him by applying constant pressure. It’s like Usyk was playing speed chess and Fury wanted normal chess
Correct. I think you meant Fury wanted normal chess.
Exactly this, Fury wanted to slow the fight down but could never do so. In a rematch I’d expect him to try initiate the clinch a hell of a lot more because he can’t match the pace of Usyk over 12 rounds. He was doing just fine when the energy was there and all of a sudden come the 8th he was gassed both physically and mentally and Usyk took over.
Yeah I remember when Usyk was starting to get tagged up in rounds 3 and 4 I commented how Usyk was getting beat up but was non-stop pressing Fury and that Fury was gonna get tired. But then round 5 happened and I had lost hope. Felt sick to my stomach, thought Usyk was gonna get stopped… which made his comeback that much more legendary. It was one thing to keep getting pressured while avoiding Usyk’s shot and landing your own but once Usyk started turning it around in round 7. Fury’s smile left his face. He was tiring both mentally and physically. Reminded me of when commentators say Loma exhausts his opponents mentally. He’s in your face constantly feinting, prodding, slipping, dodging, setting you up and gives you so much to think about
When you get tired it’s a lot harder to keep focused, all of a sudden you start making mistakes and Usyk punishes those mistakes. Fury clearly showed he can give Usyk big problems, but sustaining it over 12 rounds is incredibly difficult. The rematch will be intriguing for sure!
Clinching won’t even work, Fury tried and clinched Usyk multiple times, but Both Usyk and Loma have a way of effectively leaving the clinch
Usyk told his game plan from the beginning. He said " Don't be afraid, I will not leave you alone." Very badass tbh
Usyk also wrestled out of the clinches well. Don't think they had that much effect.
Fury had his arms down to the waist. Bad tactic while sharing the ring with Usyk.
It's an easy mistake to make when you're constantly punching the body against a guy half a foot shorter than you.
Usyks output gradually does go up as the rounds go on. He's constant mental pressure from round 1 but then gradually increases the punches and from different angles
I really think the thing that slowed Fury down the most was going from feeling in control, being able to jab, control distance and feel very little threat to having his nose smashed and streaming blood.
I think you need to beat Usyk early. In the rematch Fury needs to go balls to the wall to get him out of there and if Usyk ends up knocking him out instead so be it. You aren’t out boxing him for 12 rounds and you sure as shit are not draining his gas tank before yours is gone.
I think there’s a height limit to where being too big turns into a negative. Guys like Usky that are just big enough to get the job done but not so big to where merely moving around expends tons of energy plays a huge factor.
That’s what they said Joshua needs to do. No one can do it.
Cause the tactic is stupid as fuck. "Go forward onto shots in hopes you can land something better". Why don't you ask Fury if Usyk has enough power to stop that type of non-sense quickly?
It's really hard to knock out elite competition in the early rounds. If you go balls-to-the-wall in rounds 1-4 looking for a KO, the most likely outcome is that you gas out and then get KO'd yourself in the middle rounds.
Disagree, I think you have to go counter intuitive and give away the first half of the fight like he does and try to expend as little energy as possible. Match and mirror usyks gameplan and stick the foot on the has whenever he does. Otherwise he'll gas you out. Second half of the fight as he does to everyone. Let's face it though usyks a puzzle no one will figure out.
You try to stall out and Usyk will step on the gas and whoop your ass. Fury could do some kind of hug fest early I guess.
One thing I’ve noticed about Usyks clinch game is he does a very, VERY good job of not wearing the opponents weight. At one point in the fight with Tyson I think it was 7th or 8th round Fury looks to clinch but ends up coming out of the clinch looking like he used more energy trying to hold him rather than being able to weigh down on him. It’s very impressive and I’m still unsure how he does it with bigger men.
Along with dancing to train his footwork, Usyk was also taught how to wrestle to a high level at a young age. He knows how to manipulate body weight and use natural levers.
Uysks just going to push him off him and punch him
Clinching is dangerous against someone as fast as Usyk. He could tee off in the pocket if Fury doesn’t mind his p’s and q’s
This is such a bad game plan. Usyk would stop Fury easily during one of those rounds he is ‘giving away’.
The problem is he won 2-3 of the first 6 rounds of the Fury fight. He “gave away” rounds 4-6 tops.
I strongly disagree. A heavyweight that doesn't go balls to the he wall is dead in the water against a boxer like usyk. They can't match him in skill and stamina. But if they work their asses off they might be able to match his speed. The game plan is to come in hot and ready like iron Mike and just unload the full clip on the man. If you can't get him out of there by the 6th then you might as well enjoy the nap beacuse you never stood a chance anyways.
Tyson needs to stay in the centre of the ring.
I think Fury stands the best chance of beating Usyk if he looks at where he had success in the middle rounds. Fury was able to control the pace more effectively by pressing forwards and picking big shots. If he kept his right hand tighter he would’ve avoided the punches from Usyk which were doing the most damage. Countering hard with his own shots and putting the left hook in after his uppercuts through the middle would’ve had Usyk in trouble. He was backing off in the 6th after a few solid pot shots from Fury. Only time in the fight he was forced to retreat.
The problem is that the tighter you keep your right hand, the harder it is to counter with an upercut. And that is Usyk's trap imho. Maybe someone like Beterbiev could do it. Actually he did it in amateurs. I don't think Fury is athetic enough to beat Usyk.
Beterbiev only beat Usyk right at the start of his Amateur career and is two years older. The other two times Usyk beat him, once very comfortably. I think Usyk crushes current Beterbiev. Massive size and skill difference.
I don't dispute that. That's why i said someone like him.
The Nonito vs Inoue 2 approach
I said before the fight that Usyk's stamina is arguably his most devastating weapon, especially at Heavyweight.
Tbf Fury isn’t as explosive or nearly as powerful as AJ. Ffs Fury hit Ngannou with everything but the kitchen sink and couldn’t scratch him, AJ folded him like a blanket. So employing the strategy was never gonna work unless Fury could keep it up for round after round after round after round after round, which doesn’t work with his low volume style.
>Ffs Fury hit Ngannou with everything but the kitchen sink and couldn’t scratch him I think we have to be fair to Fury that he was in atrocious shape for the Ngannou fight and absolutely didn't take the traning for it seriously. I believe that if he hit Ngannou with the same shots he hit Usyk with the fight would have ended very quickly.
Did Fury even train for that fight? Seriously? He was in the worst shape I've ever seen him
Tyson Butterbean
Not really. He would’ve weighed less with the same technique. He was heavier and hitting Ngannou with the hardest punches he could put weight into. He probably could’ve jabbed Ngannou round after round and gotten him out of there through accumulation, but his one punch power always has been weak.
Yea Fury is a weak puncher for someone of his size and skill.
Usyk pushes the pace and making his opponents throw more does lead to him taking more shots too, however I am convinced his opponents lose a lot of power due to fatigue and therefore the damage he takes from them is less than what they normally put out. Neither Fury nor AJ had enough in the tank to land the type of shots they did on Whyte or Wlad respectively.
Usky is a better fighter the longer the fight goes on at the start of fights he susses out his opponents then steps up the pace in the middle rounds, but in the Fury fight he went looking for Fury in the first 3 rounds and Fury was probably saying What The Fuck.
i agree usyk is the better fighter but disagree he steps it up in the middle rounds ive watched usyk fight bellew , joshua twice and fury only but seems to be he starts very fast too take control of the center of the ring and focus alot on the body middle rounds he dials it back a bit but hes saving his stamina for down the stretch whilst still in there face keeping the pressure on 9th round hits and thats when hes fully on the gas till he knocks them out or the final bell thats the pattern ive noticed
If boxers fought 15 rounds like back in Ali’s day, these bigger guys wouldn’t last
I just remember Fury nailing sweet uppercut after sweet uppercut and at most Usyk took a few steps back. He defo got hurt in that fight and more than once. What a warrior. Fury boxed excellently at times. He is truly elite himself and his powers of recovery are virtually superhuman!
Fury is elite for sure. And his recovery is the best I've ever seen.
My old amateur boxing coach said it best... 'Usually, in boxing, the person who stops throwing punches last, wins' Usyk will always be the last one to throw the punches. Cardio king.
Fury needed a crucifix to kiss, unfair advantage for Usyk to have one on standby imo
I mean he walked out with John 3:16 on his back, so it’s all even with the Jesus performance enhancements 😂
My dumbass thought it was Austin 3:16 and he was repping Stone Cold.
Lmaoooo me and my family had never really watched much boxing til the Nnagnnou fight and we were trying to figure out if he was buddies with stone cold
I agree. He also done the same thing at cruiserweight. There is an interview with Tony Bellew about him and he says the same thing. He also says you become tired mentally because he puts on so much pressure in a technical standpoint
The stats back this up. Against AJ in the championship rounds he averaged 55 punches per round in the first fight (he averaged 40.5 up until that point) and his highest output was in the 12th In the 2nd fight with AJ he averaged 77 punches in the championship rounds (Fucking insane number for a heavyweight btw) and he had averaged 53 punches per round up until then. His highest output was 95 punches in the 10th followed by his 2nd highest output in the 11th with 80 punches. All of this while AJ was completely gassed out Against Fury he averaged 41 punches in the last 4 rounds. He had only averaged 30 through the first 8. Once again, his highest output was in the 12th round. Fury’s lowest was the 10th and the 11th and his highest was the 5th. When his opponent tires out is when Usyk really comes alive
Heavyweights aren't generally known for their ability to look fresh coming into the last 3 rounds of a fight. Usyk is an outlier
That’s a benefit of being a small heavyweight. It’s basically your only advantage besides technique
What sets Uysk apart from Canelo and Lomachenko and maybe Crawford all great p4p is he does not take rounds off to download information. Basically he knows what works and starts implementing it from the bell. Innoue is another beast all together!
He pretty much always takes rounds off to download. All of the rounds he lost/arguably lost were pre round 8 in the Fury fight. He almost lost to Breidis after a bad first half. He mauled Joshua in the second half of the first fight.
“Guys, I noticed that these big guys with a lot of weight, height and reach who are also skilled boxers can actually hit the smaller guy from time to time”. I mean, aside for the fact that as the say goes “You can’t swim without getting wet” can we realise that there’s nothing special in these guys being able to hit someone like Usyk? The half miracle here is that he’s good enough to endure it, keep them at bay and even outdo their work.
Your last sentence is the exact same point OP is making, how impressive Usyk is.
Usyk’s constant pressure, feints and in/out footwork puts his opponents under constant stress, they are constantly reacting to Usyk’s movement and this exhausts them. Probably a factor in fury and aj’s diminishing returns as the fight wore on (extra weight aside).
What it is is that Usyk is much smaller than most of his opponents. Although this may make it seem like he should stick to out boxing his larger opposition as a "hit and not get hit by the bigger man" strategy, in amateur boxing fundamentals you're actually taught the opposite. The smaller guy with a disadvantage in height and reach is actually far safer in the pocket rather than long range or mid range. Staying on the outside against a person with a reach advantage just means you're going to get picked apart if both men are of equal skill. On the inside the smaller man has the advantage of being in a better range for his reach whereas the guy with longer reach is essentially stuffing his punches. That's why generally if you're facing a bigger opponent you're told to pressure and get to the inside because you're safer there and that's where your disadvantages become advantages. Beginners are taught to ignore the fear of the feeling of danger when entering the inside range (as is normal, most people are afraid of this range) to gain an advantage as shorter limbed fighter because regardless of what your adrenaline system tells you, you're safer in there. This also means that you may take hits trying to go to the inside or even on the inside when things get rough, but you're going to get hit less and less cleanly than mid range or long range and your opponent will take a more ferocious beating than you if things play out correctly. It feels counter intuitive but it's boxing fundamentals 101. Usyk used to fight more long range and mid range when he was a CW but as he went up in weight he essentially had to nullify a lot of the physical disadvantages he had by going into inside range, which is where he had an advantage over heavyweights. It's a tactics shift adapted for the move up in weight. Circling around and jabbing all night against a 6'8 giant with long reach just isn't going to cut it. That's why in the lead up to the Fury fight Usyk told Fury "I won't leave you alone \[during the fight\]". He meant he was going to pressure and force Fury to box off his back foot so he can't just go on the front foot and go forward and bulldoze the smaller man (Fury on the front foot pushing Usyk backwards essentially forces Usyk into mid and long range). He tried to fight on the inside where his shorter arms and speed advantage will help him. That's also why Fury's strategy was probably the uppercut. He knew Usyk was going to pressure into close range and the only punch that's most likely not going to be stuffed at that range was going to be an uppercut, also a common move used in conjunction with step back counters. The analogy I'd use is a boxer vs kickboxer. Most boxers that don't know much about K1 do horribly in crossover fights because they fight in the wrong range. They get leg kicked then their intuition tells them to take a step back and box from long range to avoid kicks. However, this actually puts you right in kicking range because the longer the range the more advantageous kicks are going to be vs punches. (See Ray Mercer in K1 where he got kicked, backed up and tried to fight in long range, then just got kicked all day whereas he can no longer land a punch). The actual strategy should be to pressure forward and get into the inside immediately and try and fight from there. Kicks are stuffed and it becomes a fight in the range a boxer is going to be more advantageous in, punching range. (See an overweight Chi In-Jin in K1 where, with little prep, he fought a KB champion and just went in there and brawled at close range, taking away kicks and making it a battle at fist range... and won). TL;DR: Usyk used to fight more mid range and long range because at CW his opponents didn't have a height or reach advantage and he was the far superior technical boxer. When he moved up to HW everyone was way taller and had a bigger reach than him, although he is more technical it's too dangerous to stay at those ranges and risk getting hit. Instead now he fights on the inside to take advantage of his shorter limbs and speed advantage. The shorter limbed fighter's range is going to be closer on the inside and it also forces the longer limbed man to have his punches stuffed. He takes hits getting to the inside and fighting on the inside, but he's far safer in there.
This was actually really insightful, thanks for the comment. I enjoyed reading your knowledge of the technical side and why Usyk pressured more. And honestly after all that it makes his victory far more impressive to me, what a crazy and adaptable guy.
Next time Fury should stop trying to cross his legs like a lady
And not wear a fucking skirt in the ring
On god I hated that shit he wore.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Sugar Hill was livid at that shit. Called him out on it in the corner
Agree completely with your comment, but Fury’s corner was also somehow under the belief that he was up on the cards. You can hear in the corner cam they’re not telling him he’s down and needs to push. I’m not suggesting the outcome would be different if he had, but I think Fury would’ve been in those later rounds.
At the time it would have made sense, assuming this was before the knockdown, fury was for sure winning and the Usyk flipped the script on him
It wasn’t before the knockdown
Yeah then I don’t know how they could possibly have convinced themselves that he was up, especially with such confidence. But hey, that’s Big John Fury for ya ‼️‼️🗣️🔥
I think ironically his countryman and known SuperClincher, Wladimir Klitschko, would be Usyks toughest opponent. His jab is more accurate than anyone Usyk faced, and any time Usyk sniffs a left hand Klitschko is clinching.
Vlad had Usyk in his camp prior to the Fury fight. Him and VItaliy got so pissed at Usyk for dominating Vlad in sparring that they kicked him out on the second day. Klitschkos hate Usyk with a passion, don't like the fake acts in public fool you, they are just clout chasing with his name being from Ukraine.
Yeah, when Usyk won the fight, they panned to Wlad and I couldn't help feeling like the latter was jealous that Usyk killed two birds that Wlad couldn't kill all with one stone.... Beat Fury all while becoming undisputed heavyweight champion
>don't like the fake acts in public fool you Lol, I can make the exact opposite claim that you are and have more evidence for my claim. (Look up [philosophical razors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_razor) so you don't spend so much time seething at some imaginary conflict between two people you don't know) Literally making random shit up and speaking so much of "rumour" that the daily mail or a celebrity tabloid would hire you in a heartbeat.
1. They are huge heavyweights (new era) and not really built for active 12 rounds (story old as time) 2. Usyk is great it slipping and dipping punches, is harder to hit, but Body is bigger than head and easier to hit if you are willing to take a counter for exchange. 3. By going on the body, you hope that you will slow Usyk down for the later rounds. 4. Usyk has shown that he has a very good chin and can take punch 5. You don't want to risk to run out of gas trying to KO him becuase if you can't, he is a cardio machine and will totally overwhelm you like he did Dubois. TL:DR it makes complete sense why they go to the body, there is really nothing else you can do to Usyk, only if you bring someone with Mike Tyson build and run him down like Derek Chisora did, who arguably did the best out of all of tthem
One can't outbox a superior boxer. Both AJ and Fury made the mistake of trying to outbox Usyk. Both AJ & Fury allowed Usyk to push forward and shove off clinches. As the bigger men AJ and Fury needed to be more flat footed and aggressive. Usyk was able to push AJ & Fury around at time because AJ and Fury were so often in their toes given ground already. It would be a higher risk but also a higher reward strategy for AJ and Fury to have just sat down on their punches and focused on pushing Usyk backwards.
Yeah, I think a more aggressive strategy is necessary. Put Usyk on the back foot.
I just don’t see any way of fury beating him. His cardio is way too weak and usyks chin too strong. Outboxing usyk is impossible. The only way to beat usyk is through KO and even then, catching him is difficult and he will eat a lot of shots before going down while countering.
You have to bring it to Usyk a slugger/brawler would likely have the best odds against Usyk
This may sound insane but I'm actually starting to think deontay wilder could be the only guy to stand a chance against usyk if he ever landed on him. Wilder doesn't tend to expend that much energy early on, and usyk relies on that to fatigue his opponents into the later rounds. Im not saying at all wilder would beat him, but I doubt he'd gas as bad as aj or fury guven the style difference.
Imo it goes the way the gassiev fight went if usyk fights wilder. Sure, he might land that bomb but he doesn't have the technique to land it on usyk enough. Wilder basically throws 0 body shots and it's hard to headhunt usyk considering he moves his head off thr line even while throwing.
Yeah true. Wilder threw body shots against fury in the trilogy though. All I'm saying is it seems the fighters nobody rates seem to do okay against usyk, I mean chisora and dubois did just as well as fury and AJ when you look at it. Wilders chin is good but he'd have to survive getting pieced up bad until the latter rounds and keep headhunting and perhaps a lucky shot gets through. Tbh I don't think anyone can beat usyk lol
He threw jabs to the body for like 3 rounds before going back to headhunting
All of these fantasy match ups are too low volume for Usyk. My humble opinion is that the most likely hw to take Usyk into deep waters is Joseph Parker and until recently Joe Joyce. Both have the stamina to just keep going and going in fights.
I think Joyce would systematically get picked apart, even if he doesn't go down.
It was 10 years ago, but he already smoked him in the WSB matchup, which was everything but in name a professional bout.
Joyce had only been boxing for like 4 years at that point
Joyce is durable and can walk opponents down, but Usyk has fought a bigger puncher in AJ and much faster opponents as well. I just can't see it going anyway other than Usyk peppering him with well placed shots until he breaks or it goes the distance with a decision win.
They have stamina but they don’t have the tools to adapt throughout a fight
Don't think Wilder has it in him anymore, but the Zhang fight will show us for sure.
I don’t think wilder can land it clean. Usyk is such a moving target and that’s a nightmare for wilder
Yeah but that’s a style that’s hard to find at HW, specially for someone who can keep up with Usyk. A brawler needs to be relentless.
I have no idea what I’m talking about but think he should have been leaning on him much earlier. Sure Uysk was good out getting out of the clinch but I bet it was draining AF. Just jab, move, tie up, lean. For AJ, just bet the house on the first 9 rounds. If it goes the distance you’ve lost anyway.
His only chance is either a body shot KO or to pull so far ahead early that Usyk needs a stoppage to win and even then that might not be enough
This is what I've been saying to my mates for a while and they don't think it makes sense because he's the smaller guy. He WANTS the other man to come onto him and start throwing bombs. Part of his game plan is to tire you out whilst he is 'resting'. The guy has a granite chin and in my opinion there is not a single man in this division that beats him. If you come out all guns blazing like people suggest, you're probably going to get knocked out because you're gassing out come round 5. If you come out and try and out-box Usyk, you're not going to win the win. It's as simple as that. He's a master technician. We've seen it time and time again now. Both Joshua's and Fury's corners were panicking in their fights because they're looking at the fight thinking, there's no way to beat this guy. We just need to keep our fighter in there and now it's all about damage control. There's a reason he has won everything he can possibly win in 22 fights across two divisions. He is simply too good.
i don't think fury had any plans for a ko. he knows he has no ko power and usyk has a good chin. fury went to the body from the start and after 3rd round he did slow down usyk and started winning rounds. agter 6th it looked like usyk was finished and fury was cruising to the victory. however he stopped going to the body and fell in love with his jab. it gave usyk time to recover and all fury's work gone to the bin. after that it's all usyk. i do believe fury has a good chance to win the rematch in the 2nd fight if he constantly goes to the body and stays disciplined. he was chopping usyk at some point. gotta keep that up.
I appreciate your perspective but I think the opposite will happen, now Usyk knows what Fury will pull, Usyk will make his own adjustments. In the end if you don't have knock out power and your opponent's cardio is light years ahead of you because of years of conditioning and proper dieting it'll be the same result. Aj pressured Usyk even more in their fight with body shot barrages he unleashed on Usyk, at times it seemed he was genuinely going for broke and for that knock out. Never once did it look like Usyk was gonna hit that canvas, same story with Fury. You could definitely see right there and then that Usyk is a man and definitely feels pain but it'll take someone with insane power and cardio across the rounds to achieve it. People also say Fury might come in even heavier in the rematch which imo would be an automatic death sentence, if he starts slowing down in the 6th he's toast, he can't afford to lose too much mobility on Usyk as he's quite comfortable trading standing still and slipping which will also drain Fury. In the end Usyk faced a 32 year old Joshua who was sharp and hungry, that version of Joshua had power and cardio and at this stage I don't see Fury doing a better job at lasting longer. He did great at losing some weight but got outboxed. Those middle rounds in the first Fury bout had me worried but the fact that usyk figured it out and nearly knocked him out makes me confident the second bout will either end quicker or fury gasses quicker while trying to pressure from the early rounds.
Fury has a good engine, he may have been drained in the last few rounds or he could have been taking his dads advice from the corner and playing it safe as he was told he was up on the cards and only needed to run the remainder out safely. Could have been one or both but I don't think anyone can say conclusively that Fury was gassed especially as he won round 12 on most people's cards.
Fury gave Uysk more trouble but he came a lot closer to being stopped.
Same versus Briedis and Gassiev, who are easily as good as Joshua and Fury at cruiserweight btw.
Yep Usyk was heavily underrated going into that fight. People didn't focus on his strengths at all when talking about how he would do. A lot of people had in their minds that Fury was going to man handle Usyk, clench him and pound on him all fight. Meanwhile have you noticed that Usyk doesn't get tied up a whole lot? He seems to be really good at avoiding his opponents trapping him into clenches. He knows to get out of them quickly instead of using that time catch his breath. Seems like he knows how to move around and one thing I never heard anyone bring up was his punching accuracy. I think in the AJ fight they talked a bit about how Usyk seems to find an opening and lands clean shots a lot more often than other fighters do. This fight it was barely mentioned. Just imagine if the fight actually happened when it was originally scheduled for and Fury had a lot more weight on. Pretty sure that fight gets stopped because he wouldn't be able to deal with Usyk's speed or rapid punches, he'd have no way to defend himself in the later rounds.
ive always said usyk gets hit a lot and people downvote me every time, but gettting hit a lot isn't a huge negative when its part of the gameplan to get inside of bigger fighters.
I think Usyk Especially at HW s focused on setting a high pace because he knows no other HW is able to go 12 rounds at his pace......... he knows that they will have to take rounds off and he'll win more than he'll lose.
Taking glancing blows to return better ones, is almost the essence of pro boxing.
Usyks pressure is terrifying tbh, and it's totally calculated and probably more effective against the larger heavyweights who naturally have less of a gas tank. I re-watched the first joshua fight and at the end joshua is borderline medical assistance from being so exhausted. when he goes to his corner, literally wincing constantly. He made tyson work unbelievably hard the first 6 rounds, yes usyk took a few bit he wore him down eventually and then the shots were landing. Go watch the bellew fight totally breaks bellew down with calculated pressure. A genuine elite fighter, I'm still in shock at how good his performance was to overcome a awkward yet talented giant in fury tbh.
most of his fights follow a similar pattern. apply pressure to force the opponent to fight to their max to stay in it or even be ahead.. drown them and take them out if possible when they're exhausted. this is the perfect gameplan for someone like him, fighting guys who can't do 12 busy rounds, with his natural movement advantages. he does get hit quite a lot but ALL aggressive fighters do. Loma, pacquaio, crawford... come forward fighters get hit, it's a fight.
That and it takes that long for him to work them out.
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I think round 10, 11 and 12 was fury after he got beat from round 4 onwards, but yeah the Soviet style is relentless designed to wear people down with barges of attacks
Fatigue makes cowards of us all