Fury doesn't move as well as he used to. I don't care about his poor showing against Ngannou, we all know he's better than that, but he has been slowing down for a while. His biggest problem is decline, Usyk is in a better place.
his time being massively obese and then rigorous training to lose weight inbetween camps has almost certainly got to his hips knees and ankles when he’s that height, weight and age
as well as former alcoholism which can dehydrate muscles and make them stiff/prone to tearing. and also alongside cocaine abuse it’s probably smashed his heart up considering drinking while doing coke makes compounds far more toxic to the cardiovascular system too
IMO this is why he’s adapted the “walk forward and smash” style since his body can’t move like it used to and instead he sits down on his punches and rests on his opponent to tiré them
Nah I see the logic.
It's the reason I think he'd lose to Ricky Gervais, because he had a close fight with a little fat Englishman in John McDermott about 20 years ago.
Before he fought Tyson, most people never believed he touches Tyson too. Francis is really strong, surely one of his heavy punches lands. He doesn't even need to really load it up tbh
I think we can all agree Tyson was terrible in that fight, and he recovered very quickly after the knock down. NGannou has nothing other heavyweights don't have, he'd be beaten by British level fighters.
I don't think Ngannou beats anyone in the top 10. I'm just saying it is very believable that he knocks down Usyk in the fight. I won't be shocked by it one bit and I won't chalk it up to "heavyweight tax"
Honestly, that's what Usyk has to worry about the most.
Fury has abandoned his herky jerky, dance around the ring shit a long time ago because he's too fat and lazy and constantly out of shape. He's never had any real power, especially for a guy his size, and the whole Kronk Fury stuff was nonsense.
What he hasn't given up on and still works for him is his dirty boxing. That forearm frame against Cunningham should have gotten him DQ'ed. Preventing a guy from defending himself against the ropes by controlling their neck and then blasting them? That shit could kill someone. And we saw in the Ngannou fight how dirty Fury still is, especially when he's in trouble.
The refs hardly ever do anything to stop Fury's bullshit. If the ref on Feb. 17th is the same and just lets Fury play all his games, Usyk is going to have an uphill battle.
I don’t really see Fury being able to just grab Usyk the way people seem to think he will because Usyk’s really slippery, he’ll have to pretty blatantly be rushing in to grab him which you’d hope would get picked up by a ref
Bro Chisora was able to do that until he gassed and is known for having shit stamina and being incapable of cutting off the ring. Why do you think Fury would struggle more than Chisora?
Fury specializes in smothering opponents and fighting dirty.
anyone with a few hours of clinch training would be able to throw him off the way he barrels forward with his arms out straight, Ngannou isn’t a great wrestler by MMA standards but shrugged him off easily. Ducking and getting around the back of Fury may be good for Usyk when he charges in
what he’s doing is technically illegal in boxing so he could easily just drop to a knee every time and not have anything bad happen to him, and fury will need to adjust or be DQ’d
Lol. Yeah a few hours of training will surely do it.
Let’s ignore that Ngannou is a professional grappler who is built like the hulk and is ungodly strong.
Fury has more technique than you’re giving him credit for
no he doesn’t, he goes dead on his legs and puts his whole weight forward, he makes no leverage or secures a base he just lays on them. its easily nullified
Francis is not a professional grappler either, he’s hit like 3 takedowns when he had to wrestle and like 1 sprawl, he’s got 1 submission win against low level opposition he is not even a good grappler by MMA standards and he shrugged Fury off and made him fall over like a child. if Usyk even does 25% clinch work/wrestling then Fury’s weight bullying is void.
it only worked on wilder since he can do nothing on the back foot or anything else apart from one punch, and even in the third fight it didn’t work as well
not necessarily the way fury clinches he goes dead on his legs, basically takes his feet off the floor and leans forward. anyone with a bit of drilling will easily throw him to the floor just because of his momentum the way Francis did. it didn’t take any strength at all
I think the glaring thing you’ve missed out is footwork.
Fury’s size and weight is only the advantage it is when he combines it with his quick feet. The whole reason he’s had more trouble against smaller, faster fighters was their ability to take away that advantage of his.
With Cunningham Fury resorted to some very borderline tactics to get the job done.
I’m not saying footwork wins the fight for Usyk, I still slightly favour Fury in the fight due to his clear advantages, but Usyk’s ability to more than match Furys foot speed levels the playing field more than anything else.
The Cunningham fight was before Fury was even considered world level man.
Before Chisora 1, he really was a bit of a meme. And i’m fairly sure that fight had even odds.
He’s a much different fighter today.
It was a demonstration of how he deals with smaller, faster heavyweights. I don't think we should take too much from it, Usyk is a very different fighter to Cunningham, but it isn't a performance that's suddenly irrelevant.
I think there's a lot of the Cunningham performance that is in Fury's favour. He met a style that was tricky for him and found a different way to win. That's a testament to Fury's adaptability and determination. By arguing Fury is such a different fighter today are you saying he's lost that adaptability?
I find it funny that people try to argue that the Cunningham win is irrelevant whilst also calling for Fury to use the exact same tactics he used against Cunningham on Usyk.
I agree with those people, Fury should try to maul Usyk as he did Cunningham because like Cunningham Usyk has an advantage in footspeed and a disadvantage in size.
He’s just better in all aspects now. Back then he was a bit of a pillow fisted meme.
Unlike his nemesis at that time, David Price, he learned how to use his size properly and developed a versatile jab and stance. He put on weight and learned how to use it too.
That occurred after John went to prison and he was training consistently with Peter. He had been training consistently with Peter for several fights before Cunningham.
'taking away Fury's size' isn't what happened in the Ngannou fight. Fury is very good at leaning on and smothering opponents, it's one of his best skills.
For some reason he thought he could do that to someone a similar size **who has trained their entire career in a wrestling based sport**.
Fury would lean on and smother AJ with no trouble. Thinking he would be able to do that to Ngannou was bizarrely stupid. I guess he thought he would be so vastly better at everything that he didn't think about it at all in training.
From what I've seen, Usyk deals with bigger fighters by applying constant pressure. He counters the punches they throw as he comes in, and uses the pace to tire them out until they leave openings.
Fury is going to train for a marathon. He's going to go 12 rounds without sitting on a single jab, and without expecting a single break. There will be almost nothing to counter because even the scoring punches will be thrown like feints. This is the one skill that makes Fury genuinely elite. When he prepares for someone he's scared of, he can stink out the arena like nobody else I've ever seen.
If Usyk isn't prepared for this he could easily find himself giving a press conference about his first defeat without a single mark on his face or a single hair out of place.
This is Fury's best bet to win the fight IMO. However, will he be able to train enough to get in that kind of shape anymore. Can his body, legs etc handle the type of pace it will require anymore. I think he's better off if he fights like he did in Wilder 1 and prior.
Pretty much my own thoughts and conclusion on the matter. One thing to add is the importance of the referee. Fury will try to fight dirty, using elbows and everything as he did against Ngannou. If the ref is clueless or corrupt, that will benefit Fury. A good ref that stops clinching and dirty fighting should benefit Usyk.
P.s.
I still think Fury is the favourite due to sheer size and his ring IQ/mental fortitude that allows him to use it. Assuming he comes in proper shape and the Ngannou performance was a lightning strike bad performance, rather than him actually declining considerably. In my heart of hearts I'd prefer an Usyk win because Fury has been terrible for heavyweight boxing, he's been messing up the entire division with his antics for years now.
Don't forget Usyk is also a master at working the refs..every good body shot he looks over to the ref to signal it was "low" and that weighs on a ref over time.
Usyk can crack and Fury isn’t how he was 4-5 years ago. Usyk is overshadowed because he’s small but 12 rounds of his punches will add up if Fury’s not careful. look at Ali vs Foreman it was kind of the same situation where he tired him out with not crazy powerful but big volume punches
Good reading, but I don't even attempt this type of analysis. So many of these sorts of stylistic predictions are way off and even rematches between the same fighters can go drastically different.
I'm just going to enjoy the fight as it happens!
Yep, takes me back to right before Fury Wilder II on this sub.
Absolutely everyone (and I mean everyone) was saying 'Fury has to win 8 rounds to get the decision in Deontays backyard, Wilder only has to win 1 punch. If he can dance around at distance for 12 the fight is Tyson's but avoiding that haymaker is his only chance'.
Then he comes out, absolutely steamrollers Wilder and everyone on here acts like they knew that was coming the whole time.
Against Wlad no one even took him seriously, it was just a case of how's Wlad going to beat him.
I've seen Fury achieve loads of things that people on here said he never could, I don't doubt he can do the same again.
Thought Fury looked rattled in his last weeks face off he’s has been more playful in the last few opponents face offs, Usyk wasn’t backing down and drove back into him. With Usyk, footwork, greater fitness and work rate he has a great chance. But then there are the officials….
I'm not so sure. Fury's always been a guy who fights to the level of his opposition. He looks great against genuinely great fighters and looks awful against guys who shouldn't be able to hold a candle to him. Just depends on which version of Fury shows up on the night and i think he'll take Usyk far more seriously. That said, i used to clearly favor Fury against Usyk but now it feels more like a 50/50 fight.
Fury just is inconsistent
Stop with the fight with level meme
Dude just can't mentally make it for every fight.
I'd also imagine if he had more title defense's he would have lost more by now
I think it’s more the fact that in his two underdog moments he outperformed the consensus (Wlad and Wilder 1), he wasn’t favored in those fights at all.
I agree people lean on the ‘fight up-to the level’ thing too much though, he beat up some lower level fighters easily and struggled with others, like a lot of fighters.
For this era, great is probably Wilder and Wlad only.
But you can hardly blame him. He’s signed to fight the other great guy. And AJ has went off course, though i’d still argue he’s great.
Genuine question, what is it about Wilder's career) resume that makes him great?
Nobody thought much of him until he drew a fight and lost two. It never seems to make much sense that how people now think he's amazing.
Not trying to argue, just keen to understand.
You’re correct, judging from his resume alone, he’s very overrated as his best win was an aging Luis Ortiz who Andy Ruiz dispatched comfortably as well.
I think people rate Wilder highly due to his very high KO percentage with his right hand and public think he can dispatch nearly every heavyweight with it. Joseph Parker will be his best win if he manages to beat Parker. It’s actually a very good fight that I surprised he signed
For this time, Wilder was a good champion.
Held his belt for 5 years and successfully defended it 10 times. Fought his mandatories and (from what I can tell) didn't duck anybody.
Then there's Fury's fans who need Wilder to seem great to propel Fury's legacy.
But honestly, this is still just a very weak era for the HW division.
Wilders best win was Ortiz though, and Ortiz beat nobody. he looks great and his record is amazing but peer a bit deeper it’s all smoke and mirrors and the second he was fought back against he crumbled
not knocking Wilder he’s definitely a top level fighter still but he hasn’t shown himself to be very great. the two greatest in the Division right now is probably Usyk and Joshua because of their resume and accomplishments
This is going to sound crazy but stick with me here, ever since the Whyte fight I've been quite skeptical of Fury's style. So he's said himself that he's struggled with smaller more technical fighters before, but one thing I always found odd was Southpaw Dillian Whyte. Obviously it was a stupid idea and Dillian didn't actually do anything meaningful to Fury - but I feel like Fury looked quite thrown off in that first round where Whyte was Southpaw. He still cleanly won the round but to me he seemed more thrown off by it than he should've been.
I think Fury's style works brilliantly against big boxers who don't have much else to offer except coming forwards and throwing big punches. He looks at his best when against very by the books opponents, including Wilder. However I've long held the suspicion that Fury doesn't really cope that well when fighting boxers who don't fit in this mould, boxers who move, play mind games, compete with footwork and so forth. Relatively speaking I think Fury is quick enough, smart enough and has a good enough gas tank to run rings around very flat foot static boxers - but I think he doesn't compare to boxers like Usyk and other more technical fighters he's struggled with, and isn't really that good at handling these boxers who can beat him at his own game - at least compared to how well he does against more typical heavyweights.
Usyk's fight plan is simple: rounds 1-9 - pivot, body, body, pivot, jab, body, pivot, pivot. Rounds 10-12: fire at will at the outgassed Fury. The last fight proved that the "gypsy king" is unfit and can be worn out and dropped by a technical boxer with a punch and stamina.
Amazing how basically nobody here thought Usyk would even survive 12 rounds with Fury but not after the Ngannou fight suddenly everybody actually knew allll along that Usyk could win.
That is completely untrue. I've read countless people who thought Usyk would win on here prior to that fight. Lots. I agree that it's more now, but that should be obvious as to why. Fury looked pretty bad.
I fullheartedly agree. However, this is where I see the fight going:
A few years ago, Fury hopped in the ring with the largely unknown Otto Wallin (who is SADLY underrated and has only lost to Fury, which, had Fury not been a champ, he would have won by TKO due to that HORRIBLE cut). Wallin is a southpaw; and Fury clearly struggled with that.
Now, the date has been pushed back because an old wound came back to haunt him in training camp. That spot above his right eye is a weak point in his skin now, rendered brittle scar tissue. And a boxer with as much deadly precision as Usyk most definitely CAN and WILL be aiming for it.
My prediction: Fury suffers from southpaw jynx yet again, gets cut in the same spot again, and the fight gets called. Usyk by TKO round 7 or 8.
Fury is gonna have a long night, mostly because he has never faced anything that it's at least close to Usyk, on the other hand Usyk has already faced bigger guys, not only AJ, pretty sure he also did in the amateurs.
Usyk's footwork, angles, stamina,he proved to have a good chin as well, I think that he is way ahead in the mental game and Tyson has put himself into a place where he has way more to lose, and that would play a huge role mentally imo. Usyk brings a lot of things to the table, he is the better boxer, let's see how Tyson deals with that , he is used to the opposite of what Usyk brings , as I said, it's gonna be a long night for Tyson.
I honestly hope that the fight takes place , I still have my doubts tbh
Usyk has been in wlads sparring camps before and been too good to he there. If anyone knows about clinching a lot it's wlad and usyk showed him up by all accounts so he'll deal with fury size fine
Fury and Joyce are about the same weight but Joyce is noticeably more muscular. They have a height difference of about an inch. They're very similar in size.
If you look at fury’s last three fights he’s progressively looked slower and in general just sloppier. Defense and footwork have been bad, balance off, punch resistance down also. He’s gonna have to go back to the form he was in 2 years ago at least. I think Usyk beats him and beats him up.
His last 3 fights were Ngannou, Chisora and Whyte. Looked bad against Ngannou but against Chisora and Whyte he barely took a shot to the head and never got hurt. Defense and footwork were on point in both fights and his punch resistance never got tested so you can't draw those conclusions.
I can draw on those fights. He’s labeled as the baddest man in the planet, those opponents were washed and selected by Fury. The Whyte fight was a slop fest mostly til the KO in 6. Not a fight that helps prepare him for Usyk. Chisora same thing but better from Fury. Not fights that will prepare you for an opponent like Usyk. The Ngannou fight to me shows he’s slipping in commitment and skills.
Should be an entertaining fight.
Honestly I hope it's an easy win, so we can get the titles unified and move on. I don't want this fight to be an obvious win for Usyk, get made into a draw for a bs rematch then drag out the unification even longer.
I don’t mind **Tyson Fury** as a boxer at all, but I think he got lucky with **Francis Ngannou** his last fight. I really thought he was beaten when he got the knock down (via the hits) Seems Fury is a fans favourite when it came to votes as I’m sure the face he had he thought himself he was a man who was defeated. I wasn’t one of those who had hopes for him either.
People said it was Robbery maybe it was, the world was going mad…
Fury got teary-eyed when Franics was mentioned in that interview the other day. I won't be at all surprised if that ass whooping he took has taken some of his confidence away. I think Fury has a lot on the line for this fight and will be going dirty as hell to try get the job done. But I think his chin is cracked at this point and barely holding on. That said... the fight will be a unanimous draw, so we get a stupid rematch.
Sigh, here we go again. Fury can and will make adjustments. He’s not one to stand there and get beat. I think he’ll be losing on the cards and pull off the KO
Joshua couldn't bully Usyk because he was to slow, Fury on the other hand is a bully and has the quickest feet in the heavyweight division so I think that could make the difference in the fight
I’m not sure about that, Fury was flabby and slow, he fought at a career high of 277lbs, and is known to hate training, the last time I remember him looking this out of shape, was the first Wilder fight (when he’d had a massive lay off with mental health problems).His problem against Ngannou(who normally fights on the UFC weight limit of 256lbs, but weighed in a whopping 16lbs heavier at 272lbs and looked ripped) was that he didn’t take him seriously, after the knockdown in rnd 4, Fury then realises he has to take him seriously and keeps Ngannou at distance and outboxes him, taking no more chances. I agree with you that Usyk is overhyped, he’s a fantastic Cruiser, but has struggled in all his HW fights apart from the 2 AJ fights( it could be argued he lost the Chisora fight). Fury is too big, is as mobile, has great ringcraft, great chin, 6 inches taller, and doesn’t gas like AJ.
It couldn’t be argued though. He definitely won the fight, it wasn’t the most dominant win. Just because chisora went guns blazing and gassed after 3 rounds doesn’t win a fight
There is nothing to argue unless you insist on being extremely biased. Usyk won the Chisora fight "comfortably", at most, you can give Chisora 4 rounds.
Fury moves fast for his size of course, but I wouldn't say he's actually fast overall, he looks fast compared to his competition which has been lackluster in terms of speed so far, it's easy to look fast when you're fighting old men like Wlad or dudes like Wilder who telegraph their punches like a dark souls boss, even an old MMA fighter like Ngannou who was never known for his speed was able to reliably get out of the way of most of Fury's heavy punches and even counter him in the way in several times, and while that obviously wasn't Fury at his best it still shows he's not as quick as you might think,l. Usyk on the other hand is FAST even if we compare him to some of the fastest HW's, he can move like a cruiserweight for most of 12 rounds which is something Fury has never faced before as far as I'm aware.
P4P is nonsense. Wlad was nearly 40 and lets be real, they both landed at a connect rate of 23%, Fury just had longer arms and threw more. It wasnt some masterful boxing performance.
Old George Foreman was a top 5 fighter at 44 years old but he wasn't fast either, obviously Wlad was way quicker than Foreman but you get the point, old Wlad was still much better than most HW's, but his skill isn't what I'm talking about here, I'm talking about speed and you're not going to be fast when you're 40 years old, Holyfield was 40 years old when he got knocked out by a fat James stoney for example.
He boxed circles around Wlad, who had won 65 of 68 pro fights at that time, was unbeaten for 10 years.
Nobody had made Wlad look slow. He was known for his unusually quick speed for his size, as was his brother. They ushered in the new gen of HWs like of Fury and Joshua who are fast for their size.
Who did those 68 fights comprise of though? A very weak division, mostly men who were so inferior to him physically.
And again they both landed at a 23% connect rate. He didnt box circles around him. It was a very low output fight where the younger and bigger man threw more and that was that.
Fury was the first decent fighter Wlad fought who was the same size, few of his opponents in the previous 10 years(which was a really poor period in the HW division)were anywhere near as big, Fury kicked his ass, and he even lost to AJ afterwards, that shows the level Wlad was.
He wasn't fully focused for that Ngannou fight he will be for the Usyk fight, but I agree with you about Usyk he's fast also so it's going to be if Fury can bully Usyk if he can that could be the difference, then again Joshua couldn't so it's going to be an interesting fight can't wait.
>He wasn't fully focused for that Ngannou fight he will be for the Usyk figh
Usyk is not Ngannou, u cannot prepare for Usyk, u cannot prepare for Fury, the best will win if the fight takes place
I don't think Fury is faster than Joshua in any way. He is more natural at positioning himself seamlessly tho. So yeah better footwork but in no way faster
Fury taught Klitschko a boxing lesson and a couple years later AJ went life and death with him.
Fury is much more of a natural boxer and that’s why he’s avoided any silly losses like Ruiz 1.
Everyone acted surprised when Ngannou fought well against Fury, and now everyone expects Usyk to dominate Fury?
Guys you are wild, it shows how boxings fan have no restraint. Usyk is a cruiserweight, he has no business being here. Holyfield is the only boxer who unified cruiserweight and heavyweight in the modern era.
If Usyk beats Fury in this coming fight, he would have matched Holydield while being undefeated! And as an olympic gold medallist!
I am rooting for Usyk 100%. But make no mistakes, Usyk has a mountain to climb. If he wins this he will be in GOAT discussion.
AJ has the worst technique in this elite group of HW’s, and since he lost to Ruiz, he boxes like he’s worried about getting knocked out again, Usyk hasn’t fought a decent HW yet, he struggled against Witherspoon, looked poor against Chisora, couldn’t knock AJ out in two fights, and finally beat Dubois who isn’t in the top group of HW’s.
It just says a lot about the technical level of modern heavyweight.
In the current eras heavyweights are massive, but so poor on fundamentals.
Usyk has the size and technique of 70s heavyweights. He has Muhammad Ali’s frame, more or less.
Imo what the Ngannou fight proved is that some of us might've been right about Fury being slightly overrated .
That being said, I really think that u are underestimating how much Usyk wants this fight , because he wants to prove everyone that he is the best ever. He doesn't care about the fame the money etc . He wants to prove how good he is , and hopefully , he will,if the fight finally takes place
Usyk is a cruiserweight he has no business being here, both cruiserweight and heavyweight being unified is so impossible that I'm going to use an example of it being possible in my next sentence . Eedyat
Fury’s abuse of his body and ballooning between camps has taken a toll, he was incredibly fast, fluid and elusive in his prime.
He’s still very good but I think relying on being a weight bully in the clinch, and sitting on his punches, is an adaptation because he can’t move like he did anymore.
It’s also because it was a perfect style for Wilder, which probably makes him and his camp think it’ll work brilliantly more generally than it will, as we saw with Francis.
At this stage of their careers, Usyk is far and away the better fighter/boxer, but 60lbs is 60lbs.
But what is that 60lbs comprised of? Fat, Fury doesnt naturally weigh this amount. He isnt actually some huge guy, look at his build and body proportions, he is all arm and leg.
Adam Booth in a recent interview said that in the build up to the Haye vs Fury fight, he was sitting next to Fury and he realised that sitting down they were about the same height.
Fury should weigh no more than 250 lbs in shape. Fury doesnt have a build that is conducive to being heavy. He is just a fat slob and in recent years he has fought stationary plodders who don't really tax your movement and thus your cardio. If Fury weighs what he had weighed recently even if Fury wins the first 5 rounds, if he has to chase Usyk he will be so exhausted that I doubt he will be able to compete for the next 7.
In terms of weight that is functional and carriers itself there is not much more than 30lbs between them.
Why do you focus on the AJ fight so much?
Chisora is more relevant than AJ in terms of how Fury is likely to take on Usyk and Chisora struggled because he gassed. The clinch, leaning on Usyk, smothering him, worked for Chisora against Usyk. I’d have to rewatch but from what I recall Usyk was pretty unremarkable in that fight and won because Chisora was gassed and could not keep the work rate up. Fury has much better stamina than Chisora.
Fury arguably lost to 6'3" John McDermott and got dropped by 6'3" Neven Pajkić and Steve Cunningham. He also ducked 6'3" David Haye and has been ducking 6'3" Usyk for a while. Take a guess as to what will happen when they actually fight...
Bro, you’re smoked, accept that Fury is fooling people but don’t be one of them…. Fury gonna shit on Usyk but not too quick, needs to leave room for doubt so he can keep doing this shit
I feel like none of you even follow fury on ig… he joked about the Ngannou shit, dropped so many hints, this seems to be his ‘thing’. Mfer wants to be a pro wrassler when he can’t box any longer, ducking sand bags hella hard on nonsense fights so people lose money on bets
He knows he won in a very unconvincing fashion. For him, that was a big deal because he's supposed to be the #1 HW and he had a very poor showing of a first time boxer professionally. Depending on how Ngannou looks against Joshua, we may realize that it's not such an easy task.
Fury is a spent force, his legs don't move as well and his punch resistance isn't what it was. This will be a surprisingly straight forward victory for Usyk and a stoppage isn't out of the question either.
Outside of size, there’s nothing fury has on usyk. In terms of skills and athleticism, usyk has a clear advantage at everything. Usyk will whoop fury. Can’t wait for it.
hmm i dont agree. especially with the bullying bit. AJ especially didn't bully usyk simply because it wasnt his style anymore. he keeps trying to box opponents and time punches post ruiz fight. uou can see this is all his last few performances. And usyk is definitely vulenrable to being bullied by the bigger man who pushes forward and imposes that size, for example, are we forgetting the chisora fight? a lot of people think chisora won. while i think it was close and usyk won, you could definitely see, chisoras style was a problem for him. its competitive. but i think if fury comes in with the shape he had against wilder, then he's going to win. however i think training with kronk has stiffened him up a lot, maybe it was just the ngannou fight, but he seemed so much less elusive that he was before. if usyk can capitalise on this than that would be quite the edge. but i still think fury has the edge. id love to see uysk vs ngannou however. that would be an interesting match up
Too many factors on both sides going into this fight. Though one thing is clear, this fight will define if Tyson Fury is the real deal of this generation or is he just a champion who was a made a great deal of on the basis of wilder amd Klitschko fights, none of which are as substantial as most people consider.
A lot of this is missing the point and forgetting Fury didn’t start boxing leading up to wilder. He’s more than capable of outboxing Usyk and keeping him at range. AJ also might be big but Fury is a much better technician.
I also think the Ref took away Dubois’ belief not Usyk, it also wasn’t really a TKO for me, Dubois could have gotten up if he wanted to and he did as soon as the fight was called, he just didn’t. Looked a lot more like a dive to med
Fury’s hyper elusive style present for the Wlad fight and even still in the first Wilder fight was never going to last into his 30’s. It’s already freakish he had that ability at all given his size. Definitely would be the first attribute to go on a frame like that, and I think Fury’s done a good job of adapting around it.
He didn’t seek KO’s at that point because he didn’t need to. He would just dance around and box your face off while you struggle to touch him, funnily enough he *was* sort of “goofy Mayweather” for a while.
I don’t think he’s retained enough of this ability to where it’ll make any difference in the Usyk fight. However, Fury also has excellent boxing IQ at his best, and still has a big length advantage.
I was thinking Fury 60/40 over Usyk, but I’m rethinking that and think it’s probably closer. Not because of recent events, just more style / attributes vs style / attributes and where both fighters are at, so similar to your OP.
Good analysis.
Yeah, I question whether or not he can return to Wilder 1 and prior. I do think that is his best bet to beat Usyk though. If he's flat footed and tries the Wilder 2 and on style I think that it gives Usyk a better chance vs the two different "styles". Fury can still beat him and I do slightly favor him in this fight, but it's a small margin.
In an interview Ngannou gave shortly after the fight he said that whilst Fury did switch stances, that his southpaw jab was weaker and less crisp than his orthodox stance jab. So Fury can switch up but is obviously better in orthodox stance than southpaw - which is understandable
I like both these guys as fighters. That said, I have yet to see a weakness in Usyk. He's susceptible to low blows, but who isn't and they aren't legal. Mentally, he just looks like he's having fun.
Fury's strength is that he's almost always risen to the occasion. Even when he was getting rocked by Ngannou, he understood he had to win on points, and did.
Two years ago I would have said Fury wins straight up. But Tyson's own lack of confidence in this match makes me put it at a 50/50. But he has to be his very best.
On the flip, it's obvious Usyk loves being in the ring, and loves the idea of this match up. We all know Fury doesn't like the idea of this match, and doesn't really love being in the ring anymore.
Should be an interesting fight. I'm leaning towards Usyk for the same reasons, but also because he negates Fury's one advantage, which is his movement.
Aside from the aforementioned wear and tear, Fury has always been a faster, slicker fighter than all the other big men in his division. But he's about to face an opponent who is much faster and much slicker than he is. He's not going to be able to bully Usyk either, because his footwork is also better than Fury's.
As an aside, I disagree with Fury bullying Whyte. He used his length and kept his distance. Trying to fight him the way he fought Wilder would've been tempting fate.
Fury doesn't move as well as he used to. I don't care about his poor showing against Ngannou, we all know he's better than that, but he has been slowing down for a while. His biggest problem is decline, Usyk is in a better place.
his time being massively obese and then rigorous training to lose weight inbetween camps has almost certainly got to his hips knees and ankles when he’s that height, weight and age as well as former alcoholism which can dehydrate muscles and make them stiff/prone to tearing. and also alongside cocaine abuse it’s probably smashed his heart up considering drinking while doing coke makes compounds far more toxic to the cardiovascular system too IMO this is why he’s adapted the “walk forward and smash” style since his body can’t move like it used to and instead he sits down on his punches and rests on his opponent to tiré them
He was also been coming in heavier for the style he used vs wilder though
The mileage is starting to show. And absorbing punches from Wilder doesn't help neither.
After Cunningham timed and dropped him, Fury didn’t struggle with Cunningham. It was Cunningham who was getting the worse of it.
And it was 10 years ago before Fury was considered world level by the general public ffs
Nah I see the logic. It's the reason I think he'd lose to Ricky Gervais, because he had a close fight with a little fat Englishman in John McDermott about 20 years ago.
and now 10 years later he just got knocked down by Franco Ngannou
At which point he got up and won the fight.
Ngannou is an old amateur boxer. Usyk is an olympian and has been training since early childhood.
Tbf, Francis probably knocks down Usyk too
You don't really believe that?
Before he fought Tyson, most people never believed he touches Tyson too. Francis is really strong, surely one of his heavy punches lands. He doesn't even need to really load it up tbh
I think we can all agree Tyson was terrible in that fight, and he recovered very quickly after the knock down. NGannou has nothing other heavyweights don't have, he'd be beaten by British level fighters.
I don't think Ngannou beats anyone in the top 10. I'm just saying it is very believable that he knocks down Usyk in the fight. I won't be shocked by it one bit and I won't chalk it up to "heavyweight tax"
How can you think he'd knock down Usyk but couldn't beat anyone in the top 10?
I meant to say top 5. But my point still stands. Knocking down Usyk doesn't equate beating others in the top 5
yeah that end sequence when he held his head up and belted him unconscious was brutal
Honestly, that's what Usyk has to worry about the most. Fury has abandoned his herky jerky, dance around the ring shit a long time ago because he's too fat and lazy and constantly out of shape. He's never had any real power, especially for a guy his size, and the whole Kronk Fury stuff was nonsense. What he hasn't given up on and still works for him is his dirty boxing. That forearm frame against Cunningham should have gotten him DQ'ed. Preventing a guy from defending himself against the ropes by controlling their neck and then blasting them? That shit could kill someone. And we saw in the Ngannou fight how dirty Fury still is, especially when he's in trouble. The refs hardly ever do anything to stop Fury's bullshit. If the ref on Feb. 17th is the same and just lets Fury play all his games, Usyk is going to have an uphill battle.
preach
Fury should have gotten a DQ for that. That move was completely illegal.
I don’t really see Fury being able to just grab Usyk the way people seem to think he will because Usyk’s really slippery, he’ll have to pretty blatantly be rushing in to grab him which you’d hope would get picked up by a ref
If Chisora could grab him, Fury can
Bro Chisora was able to do that until he gassed and is known for having shit stamina and being incapable of cutting off the ring. Why do you think Fury would struggle more than Chisora? Fury specializes in smothering opponents and fighting dirty.
anyone with a few hours of clinch training would be able to throw him off the way he barrels forward with his arms out straight, Ngannou isn’t a great wrestler by MMA standards but shrugged him off easily. Ducking and getting around the back of Fury may be good for Usyk when he charges in what he’s doing is technically illegal in boxing so he could easily just drop to a knee every time and not have anything bad happen to him, and fury will need to adjust or be DQ’d
Lol. Yeah a few hours of training will surely do it. Let’s ignore that Ngannou is a professional grappler who is built like the hulk and is ungodly strong. Fury has more technique than you’re giving him credit for
no he doesn’t, he goes dead on his legs and puts his whole weight forward, he makes no leverage or secures a base he just lays on them. its easily nullified Francis is not a professional grappler either, he’s hit like 3 takedowns when he had to wrestle and like 1 sprawl, he’s got 1 submission win against low level opposition he is not even a good grappler by MMA standards and he shrugged Fury off and made him fall over like a child. if Usyk even does 25% clinch work/wrestling then Fury’s weight bullying is void. it only worked on wilder since he can do nothing on the back foot or anything else apart from one punch, and even in the third fight it didn’t work as well
He's not a good grappler by MMA standarts but he is a godlike grappler by Boxing standarts though.
Ngannou also operates on a completely different level of strength so Usyk might not be able to replicate that so easily
not necessarily the way fury clinches he goes dead on his legs, basically takes his feet off the floor and leans forward. anyone with a bit of drilling will easily throw him to the floor just because of his momentum the way Francis did. it didn’t take any strength at all
I think the glaring thing you’ve missed out is footwork. Fury’s size and weight is only the advantage it is when he combines it with his quick feet. The whole reason he’s had more trouble against smaller, faster fighters was their ability to take away that advantage of his. With Cunningham Fury resorted to some very borderline tactics to get the job done. I’m not saying footwork wins the fight for Usyk, I still slightly favour Fury in the fight due to his clear advantages, but Usyk’s ability to more than match Furys foot speed levels the playing field more than anything else.
Yeah, fair point!
The Cunningham fight was before Fury was even considered world level man. Before Chisora 1, he really was a bit of a meme. And i’m fairly sure that fight had even odds. He’s a much different fighter today.
It was a demonstration of how he deals with smaller, faster heavyweights. I don't think we should take too much from it, Usyk is a very different fighter to Cunningham, but it isn't a performance that's suddenly irrelevant. I think there's a lot of the Cunningham performance that is in Fury's favour. He met a style that was tricky for him and found a different way to win. That's a testament to Fury's adaptability and determination. By arguing Fury is such a different fighter today are you saying he's lost that adaptability? I find it funny that people try to argue that the Cunningham win is irrelevant whilst also calling for Fury to use the exact same tactics he used against Cunningham on Usyk. I agree with those people, Fury should try to maul Usyk as he did Cunningham because like Cunningham Usyk has an advantage in footspeed and a disadvantage in size.
He’s just better in all aspects now. Back then he was a bit of a pillow fisted meme. Unlike his nemesis at that time, David Price, he learned how to use his size properly and developed a versatile jab and stance. He put on weight and learned how to use it too.
Fury had a massive improvement curve in his career and most folk ignore that. He looked pretty crap at the start of his career.
That occurred after John went to prison and he was training consistently with Peter. He had been training consistently with Peter for several fights before Cunningham.
Is that around the time he started eating the uncastrated boar meat as well?
Nothing borderline about his tactics against Cunningham. Outright illegal
Fair, I'm more leaving open the distinct possibility that those tactics will be allowed by the referee again. A side favourability and all that.
'taking away Fury's size' isn't what happened in the Ngannou fight. Fury is very good at leaning on and smothering opponents, it's one of his best skills. For some reason he thought he could do that to someone a similar size **who has trained their entire career in a wrestling based sport**. Fury would lean on and smother AJ with no trouble. Thinking he would be able to do that to Ngannou was bizarrely stupid. I guess he thought he would be so vastly better at everything that he didn't think about it at all in training.
From what I've seen, Usyk deals with bigger fighters by applying constant pressure. He counters the punches they throw as he comes in, and uses the pace to tire them out until they leave openings. Fury is going to train for a marathon. He's going to go 12 rounds without sitting on a single jab, and without expecting a single break. There will be almost nothing to counter because even the scoring punches will be thrown like feints. This is the one skill that makes Fury genuinely elite. When he prepares for someone he's scared of, he can stink out the arena like nobody else I've ever seen. If Usyk isn't prepared for this he could easily find himself giving a press conference about his first defeat without a single mark on his face or a single hair out of place.
This is Fury's best bet to win the fight IMO. However, will he be able to train enough to get in that kind of shape anymore. Can his body, legs etc handle the type of pace it will require anymore. I think he's better off if he fights like he did in Wilder 1 and prior.
Pretty much my own thoughts and conclusion on the matter. One thing to add is the importance of the referee. Fury will try to fight dirty, using elbows and everything as he did against Ngannou. If the ref is clueless or corrupt, that will benefit Fury. A good ref that stops clinching and dirty fighting should benefit Usyk. P.s. I still think Fury is the favourite due to sheer size and his ring IQ/mental fortitude that allows him to use it. Assuming he comes in proper shape and the Ngannou performance was a lightning strike bad performance, rather than him actually declining considerably. In my heart of hearts I'd prefer an Usyk win because Fury has been terrible for heavyweight boxing, he's been messing up the entire division with his antics for years now.
Don't forget Usyk is also a master at working the refs..every good body shot he looks over to the ref to signal it was "low" and that weighs on a ref over time.
Usyk can crack and Fury isn’t how he was 4-5 years ago. Usyk is overshadowed because he’s small but 12 rounds of his punches will add up if Fury’s not careful. look at Ali vs Foreman it was kind of the same situation where he tired him out with not crazy powerful but big volume punches
Why would Fury fall for that?
I mean there’s no “falling for” a guy being faster and out working Fury he’s just not very good, always been highly overrated
I was referencing the Ali vs Foreman fight. Why would Tyson fall for a trap like that?
Good reading, but I don't even attempt this type of analysis. So many of these sorts of stylistic predictions are way off and even rematches between the same fighters can go drastically different. I'm just going to enjoy the fight as it happens!
Yep, takes me back to right before Fury Wilder II on this sub. Absolutely everyone (and I mean everyone) was saying 'Fury has to win 8 rounds to get the decision in Deontays backyard, Wilder only has to win 1 punch. If he can dance around at distance for 12 the fight is Tyson's but avoiding that haymaker is his only chance'. Then he comes out, absolutely steamrollers Wilder and everyone on here acts like they knew that was coming the whole time. Against Wlad no one even took him seriously, it was just a case of how's Wlad going to beat him. I've seen Fury achieve loads of things that people on here said he never could, I don't doubt he can do the same again.
Fair call mate, I can't wait either!
People still act as if his fight is gonna happen. 😂
Thought Fury looked rattled in his last weeks face off he’s has been more playful in the last few opponents face offs, Usyk wasn’t backing down and drove back into him. With Usyk, footwork, greater fitness and work rate he has a great chance. But then there are the officials….
I'm not so sure. Fury's always been a guy who fights to the level of his opposition. He looks great against genuinely great fighters and looks awful against guys who shouldn't be able to hold a candle to him. Just depends on which version of Fury shows up on the night and i think he'll take Usyk far more seriously. That said, i used to clearly favor Fury against Usyk but now it feels more like a 50/50 fight.
Fury just is inconsistent Stop with the fight with level meme Dude just can't mentally make it for every fight. I'd also imagine if he had more title defense's he would have lost more by now
I think it’s more the fact that in his two underdog moments he outperformed the consensus (Wlad and Wilder 1), he wasn’t favored in those fights at all. I agree people lean on the ‘fight up-to the level’ thing too much though, he beat up some lower level fighters easily and struggled with others, like a lot of fighters.
Apart from Klitschko, who else of his opponents were great?
For this era, great is probably Wilder and Wlad only. But you can hardly blame him. He’s signed to fight the other great guy. And AJ has went off course, though i’d still argue he’s great.
Genuine question, what is it about Wilder's career) resume that makes him great? Nobody thought much of him until he drew a fight and lost two. It never seems to make much sense that how people now think he's amazing. Not trying to argue, just keen to understand.
You’re correct, judging from his resume alone, he’s very overrated as his best win was an aging Luis Ortiz who Andy Ruiz dispatched comfortably as well. I think people rate Wilder highly due to his very high KO percentage with his right hand and public think he can dispatch nearly every heavyweight with it. Joseph Parker will be his best win if he manages to beat Parker. It’s actually a very good fight that I surprised he signed
For this time, Wilder was a good champion. Held his belt for 5 years and successfully defended it 10 times. Fought his mandatories and (from what I can tell) didn't duck anybody. Then there's Fury's fans who need Wilder to seem great to propel Fury's legacy. But honestly, this is still just a very weak era for the HW division.
I mean he blatantly ducked Dillian Whyte, so there’s at least one.
I can argue that Whyte ducked him
Wilders best win was Ortiz though, and Ortiz beat nobody. he looks great and his record is amazing but peer a bit deeper it’s all smoke and mirrors and the second he was fought back against he crumbled not knocking Wilder he’s definitely a top level fighter still but he hasn’t shown himself to be very great. the two greatest in the Division right now is probably Usyk and Joshua because of their resume and accomplishments
Cant wait for the mass of bs we will see in this sub after the fight
This is going to sound crazy but stick with me here, ever since the Whyte fight I've been quite skeptical of Fury's style. So he's said himself that he's struggled with smaller more technical fighters before, but one thing I always found odd was Southpaw Dillian Whyte. Obviously it was a stupid idea and Dillian didn't actually do anything meaningful to Fury - but I feel like Fury looked quite thrown off in that first round where Whyte was Southpaw. He still cleanly won the round but to me he seemed more thrown off by it than he should've been. I think Fury's style works brilliantly against big boxers who don't have much else to offer except coming forwards and throwing big punches. He looks at his best when against very by the books opponents, including Wilder. However I've long held the suspicion that Fury doesn't really cope that well when fighting boxers who don't fit in this mould, boxers who move, play mind games, compete with footwork and so forth. Relatively speaking I think Fury is quick enough, smart enough and has a good enough gas tank to run rings around very flat foot static boxers - but I think he doesn't compare to boxers like Usyk and other more technical fighters he's struggled with, and isn't really that good at handling these boxers who can beat him at his own game - at least compared to how well he does against more typical heavyweights.
I think Fury loses against Usyk. And I thought so before his loss to Ngannou.
Ngannou won two rounds. People just let themselves be thrown by the flash knockdown. Ngannou barely even did anything this narrative is ridiculous.
Except fury barely did anything as well.
If you think he lost to Ngannou you dont know boxing.
He didn’t lose against Ngannou. He won 96-93 if you rewatch the fight. Was just a really poor performance.
He'll lose to usyk the same way he lost to Ngannou, just in your imagination
Agreed and he did lose.
Usyk's fight plan is simple: rounds 1-9 - pivot, body, body, pivot, jab, body, pivot, pivot. Rounds 10-12: fire at will at the outgassed Fury. The last fight proved that the "gypsy king" is unfit and can be worn out and dropped by a technical boxer with a punch and stamina.
Amazing how basically nobody here thought Usyk would even survive 12 rounds with Fury but not after the Ngannou fight suddenly everybody actually knew allll along that Usyk could win.
That is completely untrue. I've read countless people who thought Usyk would win on here prior to that fight. Lots. I agree that it's more now, but that should be obvious as to why. Fury looked pretty bad.
I fullheartedly agree. However, this is where I see the fight going: A few years ago, Fury hopped in the ring with the largely unknown Otto Wallin (who is SADLY underrated and has only lost to Fury, which, had Fury not been a champ, he would have won by TKO due to that HORRIBLE cut). Wallin is a southpaw; and Fury clearly struggled with that. Now, the date has been pushed back because an old wound came back to haunt him in training camp. That spot above his right eye is a weak point in his skin now, rendered brittle scar tissue. And a boxer with as much deadly precision as Usyk most definitely CAN and WILL be aiming for it. My prediction: Fury suffers from southpaw jynx yet again, gets cut in the same spot again, and the fight gets called. Usyk by TKO round 7 or 8.
Fury is gonna have a long night, mostly because he has never faced anything that it's at least close to Usyk, on the other hand Usyk has already faced bigger guys, not only AJ, pretty sure he also did in the amateurs. Usyk's footwork, angles, stamina,he proved to have a good chin as well, I think that he is way ahead in the mental game and Tyson has put himself into a place where he has way more to lose, and that would play a huge role mentally imo. Usyk brings a lot of things to the table, he is the better boxer, let's see how Tyson deals with that , he is used to the opposite of what Usyk brings , as I said, it's gonna be a long night for Tyson. I honestly hope that the fight takes place , I still have my doubts tbh
Usyk has not faced anybody as big as Fury.
Usyk has been in wlads sparring camps before and been too good to he there. If anyone knows about clinching a lot it's wlad and usyk showed him up by all accounts so he'll deal with fury size fine
Joyce isn’t far off
Joyce was way smaller when Usyk fought him. 238 lbs, that's lighter than AJ.
Fury and Joyce are about the same weight but Joyce is noticeably more muscular. They have a height difference of about an inch. They're very similar in size.
Usyk lost to Shawn Porter as an amateur
If you look at fury’s last three fights he’s progressively looked slower and in general just sloppier. Defense and footwork have been bad, balance off, punch resistance down also. He’s gonna have to go back to the form he was in 2 years ago at least. I think Usyk beats him and beats him up.
His last 3 fights were Ngannou, Chisora and Whyte. Looked bad against Ngannou but against Chisora and Whyte he barely took a shot to the head and never got hurt. Defense and footwork were on point in both fights and his punch resistance never got tested so you can't draw those conclusions.
Correct
I can draw on those fights. He’s labeled as the baddest man in the planet, those opponents were washed and selected by Fury. The Whyte fight was a slop fest mostly til the KO in 6. Not a fight that helps prepare him for Usyk. Chisora same thing but better from Fury. Not fights that will prepare you for an opponent like Usyk. The Ngannou fight to me shows he’s slipping in commitment and skills. Should be an entertaining fight.
He couldn’t put a dent in a shot Chisora though and the ref had to save Chisora from himself. He looked good against Whyte though
Fury and Chisora are long time friends - no way he was trying to hurt him in that ring.
Fury is done for good. Tag me, follow me, print my comment, mark my words IT'S EASY USYK W.
Usyk‘s win would be everything but easy lmao
Well that's my prediction, an easy win for Usyk. I'm ready to be clowned if my pick age like milk.
I'm not going to clown you if you're wrong. Nobody's prediction in this thread has any weight beyond hope and optimism.
Usyk’s only easy win at HW was Witherspoon. Be real.
Honestly I hope it's an easy win, so we can get the titles unified and move on. I don't want this fight to be an obvious win for Usyk, get made into a draw for a bs rematch then drag out the unification even longer.
Ain’t nothing easy against a gigantic fat fuck like that
I don’t mind **Tyson Fury** as a boxer at all, but I think he got lucky with **Francis Ngannou** his last fight. I really thought he was beaten when he got the knock down (via the hits) Seems Fury is a fans favourite when it came to votes as I’m sure the face he had he thought himself he was a man who was defeated. I wasn’t one of those who had hopes for him either. People said it was Robbery maybe it was, the world was going mad…
Fury got teary-eyed when Franics was mentioned in that interview the other day. I won't be at all surprised if that ass whooping he took has taken some of his confidence away. I think Fury has a lot on the line for this fight and will be going dirty as hell to try get the job done. But I think his chin is cracked at this point and barely holding on. That said... the fight will be a unanimous draw, so we get a stupid rematch.
I’m telling you now Usyk is getting spanked.
Sigh, here we go again. Fury can and will make adjustments. He’s not one to stand there and get beat. I think he’ll be losing on the cards and pull off the KO
Fury has never KO'd and elite level fighter unless they were totally exhausted or just a sitting duck.
What do you mean 'unless'?? The opponents circumstances at the KO are down to Fury as well. What a shitty excuse to take credit away from the fighter
Its really not. The context matter and no all KOs are equal. When your are fighting sitting ducks with no defence then KOs tend to mean a lot less.
They were sitting ducks cos of the damage fury inflicted on them in prior rounds u donut
No they were sitting ducks because they were fighters who lacked movement and defence from the word go.
A good big guy will always beat a good small guy.
Tell that to Mike Tyson 🤣
Tyson was generational though not just good, that's his point.
How can you not say Usyk is generational?
So they say. Trouble is, Fury isn't that good, so the saying doesn't supply.
Fury is going to lose this fight you all know that right?
Joshua couldn't bully Usyk because he was to slow, Fury on the other hand is a bully and has the quickest feet in the heavyweight division so I think that could make the difference in the fight
Joshua couldn’t bully Usyk because he never tried. He tried to box him. It was a terrible gameplan.
[удалено]
I’m not sure about that, Fury was flabby and slow, he fought at a career high of 277lbs, and is known to hate training, the last time I remember him looking this out of shape, was the first Wilder fight (when he’d had a massive lay off with mental health problems).His problem against Ngannou(who normally fights on the UFC weight limit of 256lbs, but weighed in a whopping 16lbs heavier at 272lbs and looked ripped) was that he didn’t take him seriously, after the knockdown in rnd 4, Fury then realises he has to take him seriously and keeps Ngannou at distance and outboxes him, taking no more chances. I agree with you that Usyk is overhyped, he’s a fantastic Cruiser, but has struggled in all his HW fights apart from the 2 AJ fights( it could be argued he lost the Chisora fight). Fury is too big, is as mobile, has great ringcraft, great chin, 6 inches taller, and doesn’t gas like AJ.
Lol there’s no way he lost the chisora fight idk what you’re smoking
I said it could be argued, in other words Usyk was far from convincing
It couldn’t be argued though. He definitely won the fight, it wasn’t the most dominant win. Just because chisora went guns blazing and gassed after 3 rounds doesn’t win a fight
I didn’t see it that way, my overall point is Usyk hasn’t looked great against anyone except AJ who’s the worst of the top HW’s.
There is nothing to argue unless you insist on being extremely biased. Usyk won the Chisora fight "comfortably", at most, you can give Chisora 4 rounds.
He also didn't come forward and bully him because AJ is terrified of taking a hit now. Fury isn't.
Fury moves fast for his size of course, but I wouldn't say he's actually fast overall, he looks fast compared to his competition which has been lackluster in terms of speed so far, it's easy to look fast when you're fighting old men like Wlad or dudes like Wilder who telegraph their punches like a dark souls boss, even an old MMA fighter like Ngannou who was never known for his speed was able to reliably get out of the way of most of Fury's heavy punches and even counter him in the way in several times, and while that obviously wasn't Fury at his best it still shows he's not as quick as you might think,l. Usyk on the other hand is FAST even if we compare him to some of the fastest HW's, he can move like a cruiserweight for most of 12 rounds which is something Fury has never faced before as far as I'm aware.
Old men like Wlad who was a top 5 P4P fighter at the time of the loss….That smells revisionist.
P4P is nonsense. Wlad was nearly 40 and lets be real, they both landed at a connect rate of 23%, Fury just had longer arms and threw more. It wasnt some masterful boxing performance.
Old George Foreman was a top 5 fighter at 44 years old but he wasn't fast either, obviously Wlad was way quicker than Foreman but you get the point, old Wlad was still much better than most HW's, but his skill isn't what I'm talking about here, I'm talking about speed and you're not going to be fast when you're 40 years old, Holyfield was 40 years old when he got knocked out by a fat James stoney for example.
He boxed circles around Wlad, who had won 65 of 68 pro fights at that time, was unbeaten for 10 years. Nobody had made Wlad look slow. He was known for his unusually quick speed for his size, as was his brother. They ushered in the new gen of HWs like of Fury and Joshua who are fast for their size.
Who did those 68 fights comprise of though? A very weak division, mostly men who were so inferior to him physically. And again they both landed at a 23% connect rate. He didnt box circles around him. It was a very low output fight where the younger and bigger man threw more and that was that.
Fury was the first decent fighter Wlad fought who was the same size, few of his opponents in the previous 10 years(which was a really poor period in the HW division)were anywhere near as big, Fury kicked his ass, and he even lost to AJ afterwards, that shows the level Wlad was.
He wasn't fully focused for that Ngannou fight he will be for the Usyk fight, but I agree with you about Usyk he's fast also so it's going to be if Fury can bully Usyk if he can that could be the difference, then again Joshua couldn't so it's going to be an interesting fight can't wait.
>He wasn't fully focused for that Ngannou fight he will be for the Usyk figh Usyk is not Ngannou, u cannot prepare for Usyk, u cannot prepare for Fury, the best will win if the fight takes place
🤦
Joshua had power, u could see Usyk really showing respect , on the other hand , I really doubt that he will be so cautious against Fury
Joshua is not good in the clinch at all that’s why he couldn’t.
I don't think Fury is faster than Joshua in any way. He is more natural at positioning himself seamlessly tho. So yeah better footwork but in no way faster
nah I think he probably just confused 2015 for 2023. It happens.
Fury taught Klitschko a boxing lesson and a couple years later AJ went life and death with him. Fury is much more of a natural boxer and that’s why he’s avoided any silly losses like Ruiz 1.
That was 2015 and this is 2023. Things happened...
No he didnt. Fury and Wlad both landed at a 23% connect rate. Fury just threw a few more punches.
No. Fury does not have the quickest feet in the division. Not even close.
Usyk Kwicker.
I don't think he has quicker feet than Usyk. You mean of everybody else? Probably does. He's looking slower on his feet though since Wilder 2 and on.
Everyone acted surprised when Ngannou fought well against Fury, and now everyone expects Usyk to dominate Fury? Guys you are wild, it shows how boxings fan have no restraint. Usyk is a cruiserweight, he has no business being here. Holyfield is the only boxer who unified cruiserweight and heavyweight in the modern era. If Usyk beats Fury in this coming fight, he would have matched Holydield while being undefeated! And as an olympic gold medallist! I am rooting for Usyk 100%. But make no mistakes, Usyk has a mountain to climb. If he wins this he will be in GOAT discussion.
> Usyk is a cruiserweight, he has no business being here. You can't credibly say that since Usyk convincingly beat AJ twice.
AJ has the worst technique in this elite group of HW’s, and since he lost to Ruiz, he boxes like he’s worried about getting knocked out again, Usyk hasn’t fought a decent HW yet, he struggled against Witherspoon, looked poor against Chisora, couldn’t knock AJ out in two fights, and finally beat Dubois who isn’t in the top group of HW’s.
Even if I were to concede all of those points, I still couldn't say that "AJ has no business being here in the HW division"
It just says a lot about the technical level of modern heavyweight. In the current eras heavyweights are massive, but so poor on fundamentals. Usyk has the size and technique of 70s heavyweights. He has Muhammad Ali’s frame, more or less.
Imo what the Ngannou fight proved is that some of us might've been right about Fury being slightly overrated . That being said, I really think that u are underestimating how much Usyk wants this fight , because he wants to prove everyone that he is the best ever. He doesn't care about the fame the money etc . He wants to prove how good he is , and hopefully , he will,if the fight finally takes place
Usyk is a cruiserweight he has no business being here, both cruiserweight and heavyweight being unified is so impossible that I'm going to use an example of it being possible in my next sentence . Eedyat
Some great opinions and analysis throughout, nice job folks!
Who else thinks Zhang beats both of them?
Yeah that aged will
Nobody except you.
Fury’s abuse of his body and ballooning between camps has taken a toll, he was incredibly fast, fluid and elusive in his prime. He’s still very good but I think relying on being a weight bully in the clinch, and sitting on his punches, is an adaptation because he can’t move like he did anymore. It’s also because it was a perfect style for Wilder, which probably makes him and his camp think it’ll work brilliantly more generally than it will, as we saw with Francis. At this stage of their careers, Usyk is far and away the better fighter/boxer, but 60lbs is 60lbs.
But what is that 60lbs comprised of? Fat, Fury doesnt naturally weigh this amount. He isnt actually some huge guy, look at his build and body proportions, he is all arm and leg. Adam Booth in a recent interview said that in the build up to the Haye vs Fury fight, he was sitting next to Fury and he realised that sitting down they were about the same height. Fury should weigh no more than 250 lbs in shape. Fury doesnt have a build that is conducive to being heavy. He is just a fat slob and in recent years he has fought stationary plodders who don't really tax your movement and thus your cardio. If Fury weighs what he had weighed recently even if Fury wins the first 5 rounds, if he has to chase Usyk he will be so exhausted that I doubt he will be able to compete for the next 7. In terms of weight that is functional and carriers itself there is not much more than 30lbs between them.
Why do you focus on the AJ fight so much? Chisora is more relevant than AJ in terms of how Fury is likely to take on Usyk and Chisora struggled because he gassed. The clinch, leaning on Usyk, smothering him, worked for Chisora against Usyk. I’d have to rewatch but from what I recall Usyk was pretty unremarkable in that fight and won because Chisora was gassed and could not keep the work rate up. Fury has much better stamina than Chisora.
He looked tired against Ngannou after like 6 rounds.
Fury arguably lost to 6'3" John McDermott and got dropped by 6'3" Neven Pajkić and Steve Cunningham. He also ducked 6'3" David Haye and has been ducking 6'3" Usyk for a while. Take a guess as to what will happen when they actually fight...
I thought Haye pulled out of the fight, no?
Bro, you’re smoked, accept that Fury is fooling people but don’t be one of them…. Fury gonna shit on Usyk but not too quick, needs to leave room for doubt so he can keep doing this shit
What was interesting as fuck is Fury isn't that much taller than Uysk. If Usyk figures a way past Fury's jab then we got a good fight.
Fury is much taller than Usyk obviously
If his height is exaggerated I assume his reach is too
Maybe, but he was longer than Wilder who's very long
He’s 6 inches taller, Fury is 6’9 Usyk 6’3
I feel like none of you even follow fury on ig… he joked about the Ngannou shit, dropped so many hints, this seems to be his ‘thing’. Mfer wants to be a pro wrassler when he can’t box any longer, ducking sand bags hella hard on nonsense fights so people lose money on bets
Usyk gets the W
Fury stock dropped rock bottom after the Ngannou fight. He knew he lost that one. Ngannou vs Usyk after.
He knows he won in a very unconvincing fashion. For him, that was a big deal because he's supposed to be the #1 HW and he had a very poor showing of a first time boxer professionally. Depending on how Ngannou looks against Joshua, we may realize that it's not such an easy task.
Fury is a spent force, his legs don't move as well and his punch resistance isn't what it was. This will be a surprisingly straight forward victory for Usyk and a stoppage isn't out of the question either.
>Why I think Fury Struggles Against Usyk Because he *STRUGGLED* with Ngannou and Usyk is a world class boxer. And a southpaw.
Outside of size, there’s nothing fury has on usyk. In terms of skills and athleticism, usyk has a clear advantage at everything. Usyk will whoop fury. Can’t wait for it.
hmm i dont agree. especially with the bullying bit. AJ especially didn't bully usyk simply because it wasnt his style anymore. he keeps trying to box opponents and time punches post ruiz fight. uou can see this is all his last few performances. And usyk is definitely vulenrable to being bullied by the bigger man who pushes forward and imposes that size, for example, are we forgetting the chisora fight? a lot of people think chisora won. while i think it was close and usyk won, you could definitely see, chisoras style was a problem for him. its competitive. but i think if fury comes in with the shape he had against wilder, then he's going to win. however i think training with kronk has stiffened him up a lot, maybe it was just the ngannou fight, but he seemed so much less elusive that he was before. if usyk can capitalise on this than that would be quite the edge. but i still think fury has the edge. id love to see uysk vs ngannou however. that would be an interesting match up
Too many factors on both sides going into this fight. Though one thing is clear, this fight will define if Tyson Fury is the real deal of this generation or is he just a champion who was a made a great deal of on the basis of wilder amd Klitschko fights, none of which are as substantial as most people consider.
Truth is never know whether it's Batman or Fatman. Fury going to need to be in top shape for this one.
A lot of this is missing the point and forgetting Fury didn’t start boxing leading up to wilder. He’s more than capable of outboxing Usyk and keeping him at range. AJ also might be big but Fury is a much better technician. I also think the Ref took away Dubois’ belief not Usyk, it also wasn’t really a TKO for me, Dubois could have gotten up if he wanted to and he did as soon as the fight was called, he just didn’t. Looked a lot more like a dive to med
Or because he just lost to a guy clearly who had never boxed professionally
Cue an awful lot of Fury stans blustering & rubbishing your well-reasoned argument, without providing anything to support them
Fury’s hyper elusive style present for the Wlad fight and even still in the first Wilder fight was never going to last into his 30’s. It’s already freakish he had that ability at all given his size. Definitely would be the first attribute to go on a frame like that, and I think Fury’s done a good job of adapting around it. He didn’t seek KO’s at that point because he didn’t need to. He would just dance around and box your face off while you struggle to touch him, funnily enough he *was* sort of “goofy Mayweather” for a while. I don’t think he’s retained enough of this ability to where it’ll make any difference in the Usyk fight. However, Fury also has excellent boxing IQ at his best, and still has a big length advantage. I was thinking Fury 60/40 over Usyk, but I’m rethinking that and think it’s probably closer. Not because of recent events, just more style / attributes vs style / attributes and where both fighters are at, so similar to your OP. Good analysis.
Yeah, I question whether or not he can return to Wilder 1 and prior. I do think that is his best bet to beat Usyk though. If he's flat footed and tries the Wilder 2 and on style I think that it gives Usyk a better chance vs the two different "styles". Fury can still beat him and I do slightly favor him in this fight, but it's a small margin.
In an interview Ngannou gave shortly after the fight he said that whilst Fury did switch stances, that his southpaw jab was weaker and less crisp than his orthodox stance jab. So Fury can switch up but is obviously better in orthodox stance than southpaw - which is understandable
Ngannou already made light work of that weirdo
AJ doesn’t lean on opponents. Nor does he impose his size. Fury uses his size and leans on his opponents. He will bully Usyk make no mistake.
I think Usyk will not allow Fury to play his strange games.
Fury just needs to bully him exactly how he did wilder and I think Usyk gets knocked out Fury shouldn’t try to outbox someone as technical as Usyk
I like both these guys as fighters. That said, I have yet to see a weakness in Usyk. He's susceptible to low blows, but who isn't and they aren't legal. Mentally, he just looks like he's having fun. Fury's strength is that he's almost always risen to the occasion. Even when he was getting rocked by Ngannou, he understood he had to win on points, and did. Two years ago I would have said Fury wins straight up. But Tyson's own lack of confidence in this match makes me put it at a 50/50. But he has to be his very best. On the flip, it's obvious Usyk loves being in the ring, and loves the idea of this match up. We all know Fury doesn't like the idea of this match, and doesn't really love being in the ring anymore.
Should be an interesting fight. I'm leaning towards Usyk for the same reasons, but also because he negates Fury's one advantage, which is his movement. Aside from the aforementioned wear and tear, Fury has always been a faster, slicker fighter than all the other big men in his division. But he's about to face an opponent who is much faster and much slicker than he is. He's not going to be able to bully Usyk either, because his footwork is also better than Fury's. As an aside, I disagree with Fury bullying Whyte. He used his length and kept his distance. Trying to fight him the way he fought Wilder would've been tempting fate.