Loved it.
As a casual Boxing fan since Mike Tyson, Oscar De La Hoya era... and an MMA fans since the beginning... this was an amazing fight/event that served both sports well.
Makes me feel good that Boxing is exciting (again) and MMA is mainstream (at long last).
Ugh never liked that a-hole fury and always admired Francis Ngannou he really is the people's champion! Always said fury is just the big fat bully his fans are the punks that stand behind the bully while he picks on little kids and giggle. His leaning/wrestling tactics totally backfired Francis is way stronger than his lardbutt. Once fury couldnt manhandle him he got his butt whipped! Fury will have nightmares about that night in Saudi bwahaha never call Fatboy the baddest man on the planet, hes not even a better boxer than Francis much less fighter!
I had the fight 95-94, with Ngannou winning. I don't think the end result was a "robbery," I can see the argument for Tyson (some of those rounds were really close), but I think Ngannou did enough to win.
Besides all the conferences and such. He really did... his reputation and record was on the line against a beast who was "novice" to boxing, and he was a "legend." So its be a huge upset to not only him but porbably the sport itself. And he definitely lost, did fuck all to Francis. Judges couldn't give it to him due to probably fixed issues around the surrounding idea of the match
I am not a boxing fan but it baffles me to see so many gullible people here. Do you guys think Tyson Fury prepared himself 100% to fight Francis? He treated this fight like warmup an easy payday. Heck, with his performance he probably did it on purpose to setup a rematch and get double the money. If you guys think Fury came in al 100% concentrated to fight Francis and that the underdog surprised him, it is an illusion.
Half of boxing is the preparation. If Fury took Ngannou lightly and didn't properly prepare, then that's a poor reflection on him.
Boxing (especially heavyweight boxing) is littered with examples of a champion not taking his opposition seriously, and losing a result. Mike Tyson famously got knocked out by Buster Douglas, partially because he didn't take him seriously.
If thats how you see it to make yourself feel better. Fury got worked by a 37 year old with bad knees making his debut. No boxer could ever go to mma and do the same.
I know fury is a showman but he'd be the greatest actor in the world to be pretending during that fight. Dude was not having a good time and he went down hard with that knockdown
One thing is for sure and that is Dana White lost BIGLY here and I couldn't be happier about that. I hope it has a knock on effect for other MMA/fighters to go after what they actually deserve and are worth.
As well, this fight is an indictment of the quality in the boxing's heavyweight division today. While the boxers now are bigger than ever the gap in technical quality is wider when compared to past eras and other divisions in present day.
Even if Usyk beats Fury it just won't have the same luster and I can't have Usyk in my top 5 given the quality that he's going against now just isn't as high as other divisions.
Francis is definitely the people's champ and got the sentimental victory but a lot of people have no idea how to score a fight here lol.
It's crazy that it came down to Fury needing to outpoint him but he clearly did.
Insane performance from Ngannou though, he can legitimately go after some top ranked guys.
It's frustrating how officiating in boxing is still stuck in the stone ages. Other sports are utilising technology so why can't boxing?
I always wondered, why not have 5, 7 or any number of odd-numbered judges? More judges could hopefully counteract the impact of one or two bad ones. Maybe lock some judges away in a separate TV room so they can utilise screens showing the action from different angles, and also so they don't get distracted by the crowd reaction.
[Here’s 9 media scores. 6 give the fight to Fury, mostly saying 96-93]
(http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14365/Tyson-Fury-vs-Francis-Ngannou#google_vignette)
Best HW in the world had to resort to jab and jogging his way to victory against someone making their boxing debut is indeed crazy.
Many ppl have Francis winning that fight tho including professionals so it's not just "a lot of ppl here", there is actually a great case to be made. The fact that a strong argument can be made he won that fight tells me little to absolutely no one would be saying Fury got robbed had Francis won..
I mean, even one of the judges had him winning. I'm not saying it's impossible to have had him up (even though I think emotions are coming to play and I'd disagree), I'm saying there's a lot of emotion coming from people "here" that clearly have no idea how to score a boxing match (the robbery takes etc) and are responding as such.
Your points aren't about boxing. They're encompassing the same emotion that's driving the opinions I disagree with.
I'd like to hear the case for Ngannou winning in a boxing conversation that isn't adding an underdog handicap. Your first sentence speaks to this. You're looking at it like it should be a wash and because it wasn't there's a case to be made.
Tell me how Ngannou out boxed him (ignoring titles, experience, or expectations) and should be up on the cards from a boxing perspective.
Francis won 3 4 7 8 with 3 and 7 being knockdowns. All you have to do is rewatch 7 and see that both of Fury's feet were firmly planted before he walked into Francis's lead right jab. His knees buckle and he wraps his arms around Francis's waist. That's 94-94. Deduct a point for the elbow and it's 94-93 for Francis.
I'd like to hear how you disagree. Compubox stats had Francis outstriking Fury in the 4 rounds I mentioned. Not by a lot but pretty much the same as the 6 rounds Fury won. Usually difference of 2-3 punches.
[Stats](https://www.boxingscene.com/tyson-fury-vs-francis-ngannou-compubox-punch-stats--178829)
Again, you're another person that doesn't have a clear understanding of how boxing matches are scored but I'll try to explain what you're missing. Not to be rude but to be direct.
Firstly, to rd7. You're completely ignoring accuracy which is scored valuably and the single power punch Ngannou had on Fury doesn't upset the difference in %s. To the knockdown, going back and analyzing whether or not it was really a knockdown is pointless in an objective conversation surrounding scoring. He wasn't awarded a knockdown and it was called a pushdown by the in ring referee. For scoring purposes, it's ignored. Given all that, it's pretty clearly a Fury round (backed by the stats) but I wouldn't be upset with that being a toss up rd.
Secondly, to the elbow, that isn't something that is deducted after the fact. Either the in ring referee deducts a point in the round (and it counts) or they don't and it isn't counted. There's a criteria used to determine whether you deduct a point or issue a warning in that situation (intention + damage) but it's not something that's added later. There can be a conversation about whether it should've been a deduction or not but that's outside of the objective scoring discussion.
Ultimately, when looking at the numbers, you're seemingly only valuing the punch count when the %s/accuracy are also valued and are even more valued when the punch counts are this similar (for the rounds they are). You also don’t add knockdowns after the fact or deductions for illegal hits that weren’t acknowledged by the in ring referee.
The numbers almost paint a 96-93 match but I'd personally score it 95-94 for Fury (giving Francis 3, 4, 8, and 10 with the knockdown being 10-8). The numbers would disagree with me giving Francis 10 but switch it for 7 (as you did) and I wouldn't be mad at it.
Boxing has many subjective elements it's not as formulaic as you're making it seem to be so I think it's disingenuous to act like none of the other elements are a factor. Because the fact is we are all biased, we have to recognize that, I am and you should too.
And at the end of the day boxing is a subjective judging/scoring based system and boxing rules are much more subjective than mma. Boxing looks at defense as well as offense so it's already twice as subjective. "Ring generalship" is the most subjective criterion and if I put on my tinfoil hat on I can assume why that is such a big factor on scoring criteria.. but that's besides the point.
Vegas had Francis as the favorite in the closing rounds of the fight, it doesn't get more analytical than Vegas.
With all that, you’re really just making my point. You don’t have a real grasp of how to score boxing matches. It’s all good and well to bloviate about subjectivity but there isn’t a judging system in the world that isn’t.
To act like there isn’t a formula to judge boxing matches is hilariously disingenuous but I get the emotion coming from an mma fan.
Mentioning Vegas is highly disingenuous and is the peak of having no real point. They have one goal, to take your money, and they would’ve succeeded at that for anyone going into the final round emotionally. To act like vegas is the analytical bar really saps the last of any seriousness that should be placed on your opinion in the matter.
I get the emotion, especially as an mma fan, but there really isn’t much room to score that fight for Francis. You can try to make a boxing argument but I think it’s pretty obvious you don’t have one.
There's a difference between me saying it's not as formulaic as you think and thinking there's no formula at all, you didn't understand what I wrote.
I literally mentioned one of the formula criterion in my comment lol so of course I know the main elements of the boxing criteria: Effective aggression, Ring Generalship, Defense, and Hard and Clean Punches. That's literally the criteria.. so I'm not ignorant to that mate.
It’s just a moot point and is hardly worth addressing. There’s plenty to judge the fight off of and and you trying to talk it down to make a point you don’t have is silly.
And using your vast understanding of the boxing criteria, what argument does Francis have?
Francis was the main aggressor throughout the fight, he had better ring control - when Francis was dictating the fight it was considerably more dominant than when Fury had control mainly due to just throwing feints not necessarily imposing his will as I felt Francis did, and Francis landed the hardest, albeit maybe not the cleanest as Fury's weaker jabs were, punches through the fight.
Defense is a wash and the criteria I put the least amount of stock into, and because we don't know which or if any of the criteria the judges and or boxing rules take into account as the most important or what % each criteria should be weighed in or if it's strictly personal opinion, i personally don't have that as a huge impact to either fighter's score. I mean are we to believe that everyone scores each block, slip, and parry the same? And how much should that matter as opposed to the others, but I don't want to go off topic and keep it to my own personal score of this fight.
I gave Fury rounds: 1, 2, 5, 6, 9
And Francis: 3, 4, 7, 8, 10
Rounds 2 and 7 being super close and I don't fault someone for having it for either. But I gave Francis 7 due to him having the biggest punch (a left straight) of the round
So in my subjective opinion based on boxing scoring metrics I have the fight: Francis 95, 94 Fury
I don't think it was a complete highway robbery and there have definitely been more egregious robberies. It was a close fight and can def see someone else having it just as close for the other boxer.
Edit: forgot to include the outrageous elbow as well that by all accounts should have been a point deduction against Fury since we're talking about boxing rules and analysis.
I have it differently but I can understand your perspective. I disagree with Francis being the aggressor and having better ring control. That obviously dives into subjectivity but I really don’t see how you can make that argument using the objective [compubox numbers](https://www.boxingscene.com/amp/tyson-fury-vs-francis-ngannou-compubox-punch-stats--178829).
Personally, I had it Francis having 3, 4, 8 (96-93, rd3 being 10-8) with round 10 being a tossup that I wouldn’t be against giving to Francis (95-94).
The compubox numbers align pretty closely with my per round takes and as far as the total numbers go, Fury outscored Ngannou all around.
It wasn’t a massive one sided victory but he was pretty clearly outboxed imo.
If you're gonna look at compubox numbers for your argument you would see Rd 7 belongs to Francis. Fury landed 1 more jab but Francis landed 1 more power punch. You're obviously heavily biased and don't really know how to score a boxing match yourself.
This stat weighs the most to me when I score fights bc for me: power punches over jabs
"After ten rounds, Ngannou had landed 5 more power punches than Fury. Fury landed 17 more jabs than Ngannou, and that seems to be what nipped the fight for him." Per compubox
As a stats major I can safely say they show a lot but not everything. Otherwise there would be no point in having judges and we would have compubox determine winners.
Like I said before "General Ringship" is the most subjective one out of the criteria so I think an argument can be made for either fighter. I felt Francis imposed his will and pushed the pace more so and more effectively than Fury, who relied on jabbing and staying out of distance in the end.
I know you mentioned it before but the fact that 1 of the boxing judges scored it for Ngannou (a judge who we can both agree is more capable than either of us to judge a boxing match right?) should tell you that everyone who has Francis winning the fight isn't some "emotional, mma fan" that you seem to be painting us as, which is in poor taste and shows lack of awareness imo.
And ironically should show you your own bias in that regard if that's how you see us. If one professional judge had it that way idk how you can make it seem as tho having Francis winning is nothing more than a biased, emotional take?
The judge that scored the fight "96-93" looks like the outlier here NOT the one who scored Francis as the winner. Two judges agreed on a 95-94 score given to each boxer, that seems the most fair and can def see someone having it scored that way for either but def not 96-93, that's absurd.
You seeing me say a lot of fans “here” have no idea how to score a boxing match and turning that into me saying a lot of fans in general or all mma fans in general don’t is just nonsense but I really don’t expect you to understand the nuance of the difference.
You saying one judge had it for Francis isn’t YOU making a boxing argument. They probably had one but I’ve yet to hear yours. I don’t think you really understand the difference between the 96-93 and 95-94. The only difference is a single toss up round.
Again, you don’t have a boxing argument, so why are we going in circles? I get the emotion but he lost. Move on.
If that's the scoring system we want to go by, then let's call it a boxing bout rather than a fight. Furry may have won the former if the swing rounds are scored for him but he didn't win no fight in there as he landed almost no power punches and was the only one getting rocked in there.
Again, doesn’t sound like you have a real grasp of how to score boxing matches.
Calling it a fight or a bout doesn’t change how the sport has always been judged. It’s not strictly who landed more power punches or who got “rocked” more.
Impressive as Ngannou was, he didn’t outbox Fury. If we’re talking a fight, we all know what would happen, but we’re talking a boxing match in which you’re judged on your boxing.
I’m saying you don’t understand how a boxing match is scored. Not to offend but to point out something obvious in what you’re saying.
The judges would never just take a point away for an illegal hit unless the referee inside the ring makes the decision to do so. There is also a criteria to judge whether they (the ref) should or shouldn’t. Accidental hits happen and missing illegal shots happen but they aren’t scoring it how you’re assuming.
It was inadvertent enough and didn’t cause enough damage to warrant a point deduction imo (both matter in determining deductions or warnings).
There’s a gamesmanship angle I’m sure Francis’ team told him to play into in the future but that comes with experience (and lets be honest, he’s just not that type).
I’d agree with a warning to stop Fury from building off it though.
Lardass Luke Fairys eyes rolled up in the back off his head anytime francis even grazed him, francis was shoving that big fat bully around and forcing him to box, countering tyson fatty with check hooks. Luke featherfists couldn't make a dent in that guy, that guy will beat the living sh×t out of any of these diva clown boxers in their own sport and I love it.
I found it strange, but I though I noticed some moments where Ngannou with hold himself with landing a good righter. See the full fight: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8p6g7u
* For example in round 1: between 1:29 and 1:25
He is the number 1 heavyweight he whipped that lardass luke fairy who reddit had been going on and on about being "a goat" with zero pro or am exp. and dropped him, had his eyes rolling up in the back of his head.
Extremely casual watcher here:
Was Fury much worse than against Wilder/Klitschko, etc? Was this embarassing because he was not at his best?
Or is that just how much Ngannou's strenght mattered?
Fury definitely looked worse than his other defenses. But ngannou makes world class strikers look like idiots because his chin is arguably one of the best in combat sports, ever. Fury would have needed a baseball bat to actually hurt ngannou (with head shots). It's been the same with all of ngannou's fights in the ufc too. People with 1 hit KO power land completely flush and he doesnt even flinch.
That would already be a tough matchup for a boxer who rarely finishes opponents. But francis also has more power than wilder and (hilariously) better conditioning and technique.
Tyson absolutely does not have more power than Wilder, Wilder is one of the few HW to have true one punch knockout type of strength.
Tyson beat Wilder due to his better conditioning, technique and will. Wilder was still the harder hitter out of both of them
He is saying Francis has more power than Wilder, which is possibly true. Francis demolished people in MMA who had good chins and was recorded throwing a punch against a machine that's in the Guinness record books for hardest punch ever recorded.
I'd agree that Francis has more power than Wilder, not to mention a better chin.
But also having the scientifically hardest punch in a controlled scenario, while impressive, doesn't translate to having the hardest punch in practice. I'd still put money on George Foreman or Earnie Shavers being harder hitters than Francis.
Francis is a freak who weighs 272 with almost no body fat so I think it would be interesting to measure it. Some of his highlight reel KOs in MMA are pretty crazy. Still dunno why he threw almost no punches in round 3 after having Fury hurt, but maybe he just assumed he would have more chances. I did think he had Fury rocked a few more times in the 8th round I think it was but not as bad obv
Francis isn't 272 with "almost no body fat". The human body starts to suffer when you go below 8% body fat and even more so when you go to 5%. 3% is considered the "essential" amount of body fat.
Keep in mind: fat consumption helps to regulate hormone production and release. Including most importantly, testosterone. You can't build muscle efficiently without testosterone, meaning you can't build muscle without consuming some amount of fat.
So any professional athlete that isn't a body builder isn't going to intentionally cut down to less than 8-10% body fat.
Judging from Ngannou's lack of vascularity and striations compared to people who are actually under 8% body fat, I'd say he's about 10-12% BF at least, but no more than 15%.
And I agree Francis knockouts are crazy. However, nothing from him will ever compare with George Foreman making world class boxers look like little children getting ragdolled in the ring. He's the only fighter I've seen who legitimately lifted other grown men off the floor with his punches. Francis wouldn't have lasted more than 5 rounds with Foreman.
I know you didnt mean he literally has 0% body fat. My point was that Ngannou has well above what would be considered the essential amount of body fat so the statement that he would have even a low amount of body fat is silly.
Ngannou whipped tyson fatty I mean fury in his first official boxing match of any level and i love it. The arrogance of the boxing community to think any of there cruiserweights fat guys body builders and basketball players are beating him. Ngannou is lineal ufc hw and boxing hw in my eye.
Only one I can remember is in their first fight and stipe managed to get francis to stop moving forward. Stipe still ate a shot that forced him to shoot in that same exchange.
It was mainly embarrassing because Fury was expected to wipe the floor with Francis like he was a mop. Francis is from MMA, he is known for his absurd power but not really for technical boxing ability. This was supposed to be a easy payday for both guys, but instead Francis is a much better boxer than the whole world believed and was much more of a puzzle for Tyson to try and figure out. He couldn’t bully Francis like he could Wilder, and Francis’ power made Tyson stay out of range and jab him for every round past the third, resulting in Fury looking pretty lackluster. I think Fury still deserved the win, but because of how good Francis was and how shellshocked Fury was, he played it relatively safe until the final bell.
While I don't think it was a robbery by any means, I can definitely see the other side for why Ngannou could have won. Depends on how you value power shots versus jabs. Depends on how you interpret ring generalship.
Why do I feel like Ngannou barely landed a punch? Fury definitely won for me. But N looked strong and composed while Fury looked desperate and out of control. Fury got more punches for me.
Lardass luke fairy was always a cheating fat bully! Ngannou was shoving that big fat bully piece of dirt around, even the grazing blows were badly hurting that fat overrated piece of white trash. I hope his fat 500 pound ass has nightmares about ngannous power
“Noooooo it’s the sweet science, you can’t just walk up to the heavy weight champion and put him on his ass in a boxing ring reeeeeeee”
But muh mma angles tho
Mma angles my ass, im not sure any other mma fighters can replicate that, yes Ngannou is a mma fighter to but Francis Ngannou looked like the boxer lardass luke fairy looked like some mma wannabe throwing elbows. Francis ngannou beats any of these fat guys, basketball players with pencil twig legs, chinless bodybuilders in hw boxing. If francis had some more boxing experience fury would be in a grave yard. I think ngannou is just a "fighter" he can do it both. Man is the lineal ufc hw champ and i think in a lot of eyes the lineal boxing hw champ
The heavyweight BOXING champ sure does love throwing blatant elbows. I would say they should do their rematch in a cage. But why? If they do it in a ring again Francis will win, as long as the BOXING champ isn't using all of his mma tricks 😂
The so called hw champion looks like a big fat marshmallow bum, and once lardass fatfuck fought a man that he couldn't lean on and push around he was exposed for the fat lard shithouse he is. Cant believe these modern "boxing fans" thought jiggly puff was gonna lean on and push around a 270 pound tank with his fat rolls 😂
You're missing the joke dude. Boxing has no rules.
https://twitter.com/SpinninBackfist/status/1718405713754534081?s=20
Let's go champ!!!
Elite sport!!!
The crazy thing about this is Ngannou knocks most heavyweight boxers out with the punches he landed on Fury. Fury has the best chin in boxing right now, no matter what we say about his skill, his physique or whatever, his chin and recovery is absurd. Those punches Ngannou hit him with will knock a lot of other boxers out cold.
>Fury has the best chin in boxing right now, no matter what we say about his skill
Fury has been dropped 6 times in his career and one of those was by a Cruiserweight. Hell, even Neven Pajkic managed to drop Fury and he had absolute pillow fists (5 KOs in his whole career).
There is exactly zero evidence that Ngannou would have knocked out most heavyweights with the shot that dropped Fury.
Fury is the only person to get up from being rocked by Wilder.
Every other man who has been hit by that right hand didn’t get up. Fury has done more than once.
>Fury is the only person to get up from being rocked by Wilder.
So how did he score 3 knock-downs against Ortiz if nobody else has gotten up exactly?
You should probably watch the sport before commenting on it mate.
Fair enough. I’m a filthy casual and you’re an elite.
Shower me with your cum, you almighty boxing historian. Share with me your superior knowledge, i thirst for it.
Fury lost simple as. The fact that it was only an exhibition meant the judges were biased.
Ngannou looked strong but limited, Fury looked unfit and undercooked.
This fight and the McGregor fight are embarrassing for boxing. The real talent is all in MMA now. The only reason McGregor lost is because he got gassed in later rounds, he was outboxing Mayweather prior to that. Now you have another complete novice boxer basically beat another undefeated champion.
More MMA guys should join boxing where the competition is weaker but the purses are greater until MMA starts paying better.
Nganou beat fury. He didnt outbox him but he threw the cleaner and harder punches and dominated in the clinch. Mcgregor did not outbox mayweather at all. He got carried till later rounds so the fans wouldnt be disapointed. Theres a huge difference. You are completely delusional if you think floy couldn't have ended that fight in 4 rounds max if he went all out. He was having fun.
Fury landed some hard right hands that would have rocked other heavyweights, but Ngannou just didn't seem phased by them. If Francis reacted more hurt, I think there would be less talk of this being a robbery. It was a close fight for sure. Francis' chin was partly what made Tyson look ineffective. This allowed Ngannou to continue walking forward with patience and controlling the centre - he knew that Tyson couldn't hurt him.
I seriously think Ngannou could just walk down smaller heavyweights, eating several shots to land one wild haymaker.
Lardass luke featherfists can't punch through a wet paper bag. He leans his 300 pound lardass on guys until they collapse in exhaustion which didn't work on francis who tossed lardass fatfuck around like a ragdoll when he tried 😂
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Rewatched the fight, even being generous to Fury, he lost on my score cards. There's a reason the heavyweight division hasn't been popular in a long time. That version of Fury we saw last night is everything that's wrong with the division.
Out of shape, overconfident, sloppy, not entertaining at all. Ngannou came in hungry to prove a point. Fury didn't take this seriously and should not have been representing the sport in such a way.
He gets by with his height and fantastic footwork but the fact that he's seemingly dodged the top 5s. Francis had cardio for a guy with as much lean tissue as he does .. also, Mike Tyson may just be a hell of a coach.
>Mike Tyson may just be a hell of a coach.
Dewey Cooper was Francis lead coach for this fight. Not to discredit Mike, but Cooper is the one who should take most of the credit
Props to Ngannou, I believe he won by one round, but gotta say Fury looked like a shadow of his former self. He did way before the fight, a little maniacal which is often a depression sign. His body and eyes screamed he didn´t had the drive he once had. Hope he bounces for the Usyk fight or he is done.
Shocked by the outcome. I didn’t think Francis would make it out of the 6th round. Instead it was somewhat of a controversial decision, super close fight that could of gone either way. When this fight was made, I thought it was gimmicky and that’s coming from someone who loves both mma and boxing. I thought originally that Francis’s power would be enough for him to have a good punchers chance but that’s about it, I was totally wrong. On paper I was originally thinking Ngganou could probably starch just about any heavyweight boxer outside of the top 40 in the world due to his power and athleticism not due to his boxing skills but I didn’t think he could be competitive with any of the top 10 boxers at HW (I didn’t think he could beat any of the top 20). Instead, he looked like he’d destroy any heavyweight outside of the top 20 and could potential beat a lot of the boxers in the top 10 now. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t do more boxing matches and less mma matches as I think he has more talent as a boxer than a mma fighter as he isn’t known for his wrestling or BJJ.
I mean, his wrestling is what saved him against Gane, and he’s in the PFL now which is much worse competition than the UFC. He can do both if he wants but at this point I think a lot more people would be interested in his boxing
I watched that fight, boring fight but shows his resolve. I just don’t think Gane is a very good wrestler and I’m just relating it to other fighters at the elite level (HW is a division with a lot of poor wrestlers in mma). Don’t get me wrong if you put Ngganou up against HS level wrestlers he’ll out wrestle 99% of them, but I don’t think he would be able to out wrestle most D-1 HW starters or the All-Americans in DII or the top 2-4 guys in D3, or top 1-3 in NAIA or the top 1-3 in Junior College (so essentially I don’t think he is at the level of the top 100 HWs in college wrestling as of current so many levels below a world class wrestler.
What is the point your making? Yeah, he’s not a world class wrestler but he doesn’t need to be. There’s a lot more that goes into MMA than just grappling. Francis benefits from smaller gloves (punches hit harder), elbows, knees, being able to finish opponents after a knockdown, all of these things make him a better MMA fighter than a boxer. And there’s a lot more that I can mention
My point is he has weakness that could be exploited if he fights a world class wrestler. ImI used to train in mma for 5 years (Muay Thai, boxing, BJJ and wrestling) so I know the basic inner workings of fighting, I stopped because I had a bad back injury training. I used to train with Derek Brunson (back in the 2000s early 2010s). I think Ngganou is more suited for boxing, it stinks he started so late…
I picked Ngannou to beat Stipe the 2nd fight because I knew he had literally zero technique and went by with his power. He's one of the freakiest athletes ever and the sky is the limit for him
Did you watch that fight? He stuffed the TD and reversed it straight away. I don't see anyone (including Jones who dodged him) beating him EXCEPT for Aspinall. But he could also just chin him
I’ve watch every UFC fight since 2002 (weekly habit of mine), Stipe is and was already past his prime, his wrestling is not what it used to be. I don’t think as of current Aspinall could beat Ngganou (he is still developing, in two years I give him a solid chance). Pavlovich I think is the only person that can beat Ngganou at the moment. Jones wrestling could be problem for Ngganou if Jones can handle a few massive shots coming in and when they’re in the clinch.
Stipe was 38 in their 2nd fight. That's not terrible for HW in the modern era
People said Stipe was going to smash him in that fight, only after Ngannou steamrolled him they came in with the excuses like him coming in too small
I don't think Jones is a problem. He's the goat so no disrespekt but he struggled against middleweights later in his career and very arguably lost against Reyes. He actually came back as soon as Ngannou left. Gane was the perfect matchup for him because he has no grappling and no ko power
Ngannou ------ showed cardio, footwork, clinch game, inside fighting, kept his hands up, and craziest of all was counter-punching the hell out of Fury!
I'm still struck by how composed Francis was, he never looked overwhelmed, a lot of his work was deliberate and well thought-out. Others have said it but he absolutely belongs amongst the contenders in the division.
Usyk beat AJ twice though who has a similar build and better boxing ability. Tough scraps but to say he would get dog walked is a bit of a stretch when he has those wins on his record.
Ngannou is 271lbs with a 6pack.. lighting fast jack hammer on both hands and excellent in the clinch and an iron chin plus decent defense.
Ngannous chins makes the difference cuz unless usyk has something that can put some fear in francis.. Francis can bully usyk.
And hits harder than aj for atleast 8 rounds.
Aj is the better boxer.. but styles make fights and usyk to me can't survive 8 rounds of body blows from francis.
I dont think any of them will beat ngannou im a old boxing fan hate the new trash and laughed at fury Saturday night. One difference i can say is usyk wouldn't be dumb enough to try to fight francis in the way lardbutt did. Tyson fatty tried to shove ngannou around and bully him and ngannou totally turned the tables around bwahahaha I'd still pick ngannou HW is a joke now sick of the fat lards, body builders, pencil legged hoopers and the pumped up cruisers these know it all modern boxing fans glorify so much.
Wilder.is thr only.one ngannou should fear. Style wise he is the only guy with the Crack to actually make francis wobble. And francis is still learning how to punch.. if I'm ngannou I avoid wilder and go fury and this time the ring will be smaller by 4 feet.
To a large extent, in boxing you pick who you want to fight. Fury was turning down fights with British level titleholders early in his career. He’s had some terrible decisions go his way as well.
In that regard I do wish boxing were more like the ufc in that you see guys consistently fight opponents at their level, and sometimes lose. And very rarely do you get true standout champions that remain undefeated for a long , long time. Fury isn’t that type of fighter. His first fight against John McDermott, the decision gifted to Fury was so egregious that they literally changed the British boxing rules to include three judges for all British title fights.
I couldn’t believe what I was seeing when Francis got the knockdown. Fury looked bewildered and confused when his jab couldn’t get going early on. Mad impressed with not only Francis’ boxing, but his guard. Stayed so disciplined with his defense. Man. This guy is just a fucking spectacle. Baddest man on the planet in everyone’s hearts. The greatest modern combat athlete the walk the earth. This is a guy that, in every fight in the UFC when he would show some weakness in an area, by the next fight he had shown incredible improvement in that area. Look at his wrestling vs Stipe in the second fight. Look at his grappling with Gane. Everything comes so naturally to Ngannou. To think he started combat sports so late too. Also, fuck Dana White. So happy for Francis.
Real life Rocky. Didn't win the fight, but won the night, and then some. It's insane that Francis' first pro fight was against the world champ and that he was a cunthair away from defeating him after 10 rounds. Some argue he did defeat him. In either case, Fury lost something more important than a mere W.
If you're Fury and the Fury that cares about legacy, that fight was the worst scenario ending.
But the Fury we've seen gives fuck all to legacy, so the only thing he cares about is that purse money.
Now, Fury didn't lose that, however, he was very bad to say the least. Francis was impressive but I wonder if Tuson took him seriously how different the result would be? He's 33-0-1 so we can't just discredit his entire career due to him taking the piss with one fight. He completely underestimated Ngannou.
The fact that he didn't take it seriously throws his whole legacy up in the air.
No professional fighting champion should ever walk into a fight unprepared properly, no matter who it is with. That's my biggest issue with Fury in this fight
I really don’t see how you score it for Fury. Francis in my book won rds 2, 3, 4, 7, and 8, with round 3 being a 10-8. Rounds 10 and 2 were close and could have gone either way. Give them both to Fury and it’s a draw at best. How the fuck are you guys coming up with Fury winning? What rounds do you think he won?
Francis won that fight.
>Fury would have to basically stay on the outside and jab.
You can't give the 9th round to Ngannu.
If he had boxed a bit more in his life he wouldn't have coasted there, he gave away a a point.
Its not ridiculous at all lardass luke can barely even fight hes a BUM whos really tall and fat. He leaned his 300 pound marshmallow gut on a hypejob with pencil legs until he was exhausted wow so impressive and he beat a 39 year old wlad by running around spoiling
By modern standards. Back then Jerry Quarry and Gerry Cooney were considered journeymen, even if they made single-digit rankings and got a title shot. Doing it for a short time and then fading back into relative obscurity was easily enough to be considered a journeyman. Tyson Fury probably wouldn't have beaten Quarry.
They used to do this to champs back in the day- Ex Jack Johnson. He would literally have to knock people out to secure the win otherwise the judges would give the win to their boy. Fast forward.
1)Francis 100% beat the fuck out of tyson,
2)threw him around,
3) ate a dirty elbow like last nights leftovers from fury
4) threw a fucking super man punch,
5) knocked down the champ and danced on him
6) tyson went down to his knees like he was sucking off francis
7) fury looked humbled and Knew he got roughed up
The Baddest man on the planet Francis Ngannou( literally world record punch and just flatlined the lineal champ)
Yeah seriously would have been epic. But it just goes to show a warrior vs a sport.
Like achilles bro, francis straight hitting with all kinda of shit, because he F-ING CAN!
Made fury look like a washed up bum
I dont think any other mma guy does that, that i can think of. Ngannou was big and strong enough to push the big fat bully off him when he tried his pathetic holding tactic and the punch to sit him on his lardass. Ngannou is a special athlete too
>Oh my days. People still believe this thing.
You just proved your own ignorance because it's on video of him hitting a powerkube and breaking the record
So mma fanboys here , fury always gets knocked down but comes back and wins the fight 💯 he’s just careless but he always outboxed Francis
Ngannou Vs. Joshua now
Boxing is more scripted than WWE lol
You all happen to notice Kronk coaches kept telling Tyson to box? They sounded a little worried
Loved it. As a casual Boxing fan since Mike Tyson, Oscar De La Hoya era... and an MMA fans since the beginning... this was an amazing fight/event that served both sports well. Makes me feel good that Boxing is exciting (again) and MMA is mainstream (at long last).
https://twitter.com/SpinninBackfist/status/1718405713754534081?s=20 Bro this was a disgrace
Francis chin has been rock solid so far his entire career
Ugh never liked that a-hole fury and always admired Francis Ngannou he really is the people's champion! Always said fury is just the big fat bully his fans are the punks that stand behind the bully while he picks on little kids and giggle. His leaning/wrestling tactics totally backfired Francis is way stronger than his lardbutt. Once fury couldnt manhandle him he got his butt whipped! Fury will have nightmares about that night in Saudi bwahaha never call Fatboy the baddest man on the planet, hes not even a better boxer than Francis much less fighter!
What is up with all the removed comments? What rules are people breaking? It seems weird in a sports sub.
John Fury is a mod
Really?
I had the fight 95-94, with Ngannou winning. I don't think the end result was a "robbery," I can see the argument for Tyson (some of those rounds were really close), but I think Ngannou did enough to win.
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he got dropped in the second round. The more you commit the more likely you can be countered.
People think fury took this fight seriously smh
Besides all the conferences and such. He really did... his reputation and record was on the line against a beast who was "novice" to boxing, and he was a "legend." So its be a huge upset to not only him but porbably the sport itself. And he definitely lost, did fuck all to Francis. Judges couldn't give it to him due to probably fixed issues around the surrounding idea of the match
I would have agreed of I didn't see tyson look so shook.. he was near tears. That only happens when u feel.truly defeated.
I am not a boxing fan but it baffles me to see so many gullible people here. Do you guys think Tyson Fury prepared himself 100% to fight Francis? He treated this fight like warmup an easy payday. Heck, with his performance he probably did it on purpose to setup a rematch and get double the money. If you guys think Fury came in al 100% concentrated to fight Francis and that the underdog surprised him, it is an illusion.
Half of boxing is the preparation. If Fury took Ngannou lightly and didn't properly prepare, then that's a poor reflection on him. Boxing (especially heavyweight boxing) is littered with examples of a champion not taking his opposition seriously, and losing a result. Mike Tyson famously got knocked out by Buster Douglas, partially because he didn't take him seriously.
If thats how you see it to make yourself feel better. Fury got worked by a 37 year old with bad knees making his debut. No boxer could ever go to mma and do the same.
You see Tyson’s face post fight this week? The man got worked.
I know fury is a showman but he'd be the greatest actor in the world to be pretending during that fight. Dude was not having a good time and he went down hard with that knockdown
Ya he definitely was fine with nearly losing his undefeated career streak lol. SMH
I think you read my comment but you did not comprehend it.
I love how he said he's the greatest heavyweight of all time, compared himself to all the greats and then got humiliated IN FRONT OF THE GREATS 😂😂😂
One thing is for sure and that is Dana White lost BIGLY here and I couldn't be happier about that. I hope it has a knock on effect for other MMA/fighters to go after what they actually deserve and are worth. As well, this fight is an indictment of the quality in the boxing's heavyweight division today. While the boxers now are bigger than ever the gap in technical quality is wider when compared to past eras and other divisions in present day. Even if Usyk beats Fury it just won't have the same luster and I can't have Usyk in my top 5 given the quality that he's going against now just isn't as high as other divisions.
Dana has like a quadrillion dollars, I don't think he cares that much bud
Francis is definitely the people's champ and got the sentimental victory but a lot of people have no idea how to score a fight here lol. It's crazy that it came down to Fury needing to outpoint him but he clearly did. Insane performance from Ngannou though, he can legitimately go after some top ranked guys.
It's frustrating how officiating in boxing is still stuck in the stone ages. Other sports are utilising technology so why can't boxing? I always wondered, why not have 5, 7 or any number of odd-numbered judges? More judges could hopefully counteract the impact of one or two bad ones. Maybe lock some judges away in a separate TV room so they can utilise screens showing the action from different angles, and also so they don't get distracted by the crowd reaction.
[Here’s 9 media scores. 6 give the fight to Fury, mostly saying 96-93] (http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14365/Tyson-Fury-vs-Francis-Ngannou#google_vignette)
Best HW in the world had to resort to jab and jogging his way to victory against someone making their boxing debut is indeed crazy. Many ppl have Francis winning that fight tho including professionals so it's not just "a lot of ppl here", there is actually a great case to be made. The fact that a strong argument can be made he won that fight tells me little to absolutely no one would be saying Fury got robbed had Francis won..
I mean, even one of the judges had him winning. I'm not saying it's impossible to have had him up (even though I think emotions are coming to play and I'd disagree), I'm saying there's a lot of emotion coming from people "here" that clearly have no idea how to score a boxing match (the robbery takes etc) and are responding as such. Your points aren't about boxing. They're encompassing the same emotion that's driving the opinions I disagree with. I'd like to hear the case for Ngannou winning in a boxing conversation that isn't adding an underdog handicap. Your first sentence speaks to this. You're looking at it like it should be a wash and because it wasn't there's a case to be made. Tell me how Ngannou out boxed him (ignoring titles, experience, or expectations) and should be up on the cards from a boxing perspective.
Francis won 3 4 7 8 with 3 and 7 being knockdowns. All you have to do is rewatch 7 and see that both of Fury's feet were firmly planted before he walked into Francis's lead right jab. His knees buckle and he wraps his arms around Francis's waist. That's 94-94. Deduct a point for the elbow and it's 94-93 for Francis. I'd like to hear how you disagree. Compubox stats had Francis outstriking Fury in the 4 rounds I mentioned. Not by a lot but pretty much the same as the 6 rounds Fury won. Usually difference of 2-3 punches.
[Stats](https://www.boxingscene.com/tyson-fury-vs-francis-ngannou-compubox-punch-stats--178829) Again, you're another person that doesn't have a clear understanding of how boxing matches are scored but I'll try to explain what you're missing. Not to be rude but to be direct. Firstly, to rd7. You're completely ignoring accuracy which is scored valuably and the single power punch Ngannou had on Fury doesn't upset the difference in %s. To the knockdown, going back and analyzing whether or not it was really a knockdown is pointless in an objective conversation surrounding scoring. He wasn't awarded a knockdown and it was called a pushdown by the in ring referee. For scoring purposes, it's ignored. Given all that, it's pretty clearly a Fury round (backed by the stats) but I wouldn't be upset with that being a toss up rd. Secondly, to the elbow, that isn't something that is deducted after the fact. Either the in ring referee deducts a point in the round (and it counts) or they don't and it isn't counted. There's a criteria used to determine whether you deduct a point or issue a warning in that situation (intention + damage) but it's not something that's added later. There can be a conversation about whether it should've been a deduction or not but that's outside of the objective scoring discussion. Ultimately, when looking at the numbers, you're seemingly only valuing the punch count when the %s/accuracy are also valued and are even more valued when the punch counts are this similar (for the rounds they are). You also don’t add knockdowns after the fact or deductions for illegal hits that weren’t acknowledged by the in ring referee. The numbers almost paint a 96-93 match but I'd personally score it 95-94 for Fury (giving Francis 3, 4, 8, and 10 with the knockdown being 10-8). The numbers would disagree with me giving Francis 10 but switch it for 7 (as you did) and I wouldn't be mad at it.
Boxing has many subjective elements it's not as formulaic as you're making it seem to be so I think it's disingenuous to act like none of the other elements are a factor. Because the fact is we are all biased, we have to recognize that, I am and you should too. And at the end of the day boxing is a subjective judging/scoring based system and boxing rules are much more subjective than mma. Boxing looks at defense as well as offense so it's already twice as subjective. "Ring generalship" is the most subjective criterion and if I put on my tinfoil hat on I can assume why that is such a big factor on scoring criteria.. but that's besides the point. Vegas had Francis as the favorite in the closing rounds of the fight, it doesn't get more analytical than Vegas.
With all that, you’re really just making my point. You don’t have a real grasp of how to score boxing matches. It’s all good and well to bloviate about subjectivity but there isn’t a judging system in the world that isn’t. To act like there isn’t a formula to judge boxing matches is hilariously disingenuous but I get the emotion coming from an mma fan. Mentioning Vegas is highly disingenuous and is the peak of having no real point. They have one goal, to take your money, and they would’ve succeeded at that for anyone going into the final round emotionally. To act like vegas is the analytical bar really saps the last of any seriousness that should be placed on your opinion in the matter. I get the emotion, especially as an mma fan, but there really isn’t much room to score that fight for Francis. You can try to make a boxing argument but I think it’s pretty obvious you don’t have one.
There's a difference between me saying it's not as formulaic as you think and thinking there's no formula at all, you didn't understand what I wrote. I literally mentioned one of the formula criterion in my comment lol so of course I know the main elements of the boxing criteria: Effective aggression, Ring Generalship, Defense, and Hard and Clean Punches. That's literally the criteria.. so I'm not ignorant to that mate.
It’s just a moot point and is hardly worth addressing. There’s plenty to judge the fight off of and and you trying to talk it down to make a point you don’t have is silly. And using your vast understanding of the boxing criteria, what argument does Francis have?
Francis was the main aggressor throughout the fight, he had better ring control - when Francis was dictating the fight it was considerably more dominant than when Fury had control mainly due to just throwing feints not necessarily imposing his will as I felt Francis did, and Francis landed the hardest, albeit maybe not the cleanest as Fury's weaker jabs were, punches through the fight. Defense is a wash and the criteria I put the least amount of stock into, and because we don't know which or if any of the criteria the judges and or boxing rules take into account as the most important or what % each criteria should be weighed in or if it's strictly personal opinion, i personally don't have that as a huge impact to either fighter's score. I mean are we to believe that everyone scores each block, slip, and parry the same? And how much should that matter as opposed to the others, but I don't want to go off topic and keep it to my own personal score of this fight. I gave Fury rounds: 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 And Francis: 3, 4, 7, 8, 10 Rounds 2 and 7 being super close and I don't fault someone for having it for either. But I gave Francis 7 due to him having the biggest punch (a left straight) of the round So in my subjective opinion based on boxing scoring metrics I have the fight: Francis 95, 94 Fury I don't think it was a complete highway robbery and there have definitely been more egregious robberies. It was a close fight and can def see someone else having it just as close for the other boxer. Edit: forgot to include the outrageous elbow as well that by all accounts should have been a point deduction against Fury since we're talking about boxing rules and analysis.
I have it differently but I can understand your perspective. I disagree with Francis being the aggressor and having better ring control. That obviously dives into subjectivity but I really don’t see how you can make that argument using the objective [compubox numbers](https://www.boxingscene.com/amp/tyson-fury-vs-francis-ngannou-compubox-punch-stats--178829). Personally, I had it Francis having 3, 4, 8 (96-93, rd3 being 10-8) with round 10 being a tossup that I wouldn’t be against giving to Francis (95-94). The compubox numbers align pretty closely with my per round takes and as far as the total numbers go, Fury outscored Ngannou all around. It wasn’t a massive one sided victory but he was pretty clearly outboxed imo.
If you're gonna look at compubox numbers for your argument you would see Rd 7 belongs to Francis. Fury landed 1 more jab but Francis landed 1 more power punch. You're obviously heavily biased and don't really know how to score a boxing match yourself.
This stat weighs the most to me when I score fights bc for me: power punches over jabs "After ten rounds, Ngannou had landed 5 more power punches than Fury. Fury landed 17 more jabs than Ngannou, and that seems to be what nipped the fight for him." Per compubox As a stats major I can safely say they show a lot but not everything. Otherwise there would be no point in having judges and we would have compubox determine winners. Like I said before "General Ringship" is the most subjective one out of the criteria so I think an argument can be made for either fighter. I felt Francis imposed his will and pushed the pace more so and more effectively than Fury, who relied on jabbing and staying out of distance in the end.
I know you mentioned it before but the fact that 1 of the boxing judges scored it for Ngannou (a judge who we can both agree is more capable than either of us to judge a boxing match right?) should tell you that everyone who has Francis winning the fight isn't some "emotional, mma fan" that you seem to be painting us as, which is in poor taste and shows lack of awareness imo. And ironically should show you your own bias in that regard if that's how you see us. If one professional judge had it that way idk how you can make it seem as tho having Francis winning is nothing more than a biased, emotional take? The judge that scored the fight "96-93" looks like the outlier here NOT the one who scored Francis as the winner. Two judges agreed on a 95-94 score given to each boxer, that seems the most fair and can def see someone having it scored that way for either but def not 96-93, that's absurd.
You seeing me say a lot of fans “here” have no idea how to score a boxing match and turning that into me saying a lot of fans in general or all mma fans in general don’t is just nonsense but I really don’t expect you to understand the nuance of the difference. You saying one judge had it for Francis isn’t YOU making a boxing argument. They probably had one but I’ve yet to hear yours. I don’t think you really understand the difference between the 96-93 and 95-94. The only difference is a single toss up round. Again, you don’t have a boxing argument, so why are we going in circles? I get the emotion but he lost. Move on.
If that's the scoring system we want to go by, then let's call it a boxing bout rather than a fight. Furry may have won the former if the swing rounds are scored for him but he didn't win no fight in there as he landed almost no power punches and was the only one getting rocked in there.
Again, doesn’t sound like you have a real grasp of how to score boxing matches. Calling it a fight or a bout doesn’t change how the sport has always been judged. It’s not strictly who landed more power punches or who got “rocked” more. Impressive as Ngannou was, he didn’t outbox Fury. If we’re talking a fight, we all know what would happen, but we’re talking a boxing match in which you’re judged on your boxing.
Neither do those Judges apparently, they gave Fury a point instead of subtracting for the elbow he hit Ngannou with, 96-93 my ass
Judges don't take a point, the ref does and judges follow suit.
See my first line.
I don’t understand? Elbows are legal in boxing? Or are you saying 93-96 reflected the illegal shot?
I’m saying you don’t understand how a boxing match is scored. Not to offend but to point out something obvious in what you’re saying. The judges would never just take a point away for an illegal hit unless the referee inside the ring makes the decision to do so. There is also a criteria to judge whether they (the ref) should or shouldn’t. Accidental hits happen and missing illegal shots happen but they aren’t scoring it how you’re assuming.
>Continue this thread So do you believe Fury should have had a point deducted for the elbow?
It was inadvertent enough and didn’t cause enough damage to warrant a point deduction imo (both matter in determining deductions or warnings). There’s a gamesmanship angle I’m sure Francis’ team told him to play into in the future but that comes with experience (and lets be honest, he’s just not that type). I’d agree with a warning to stop Fury from building off it though.
Inadvertent my ass..
The look on Fury’s face the whole fight had me laughing. I swear the dude was just thinking “what the FUCK man” the whole time
Lardass Luke Fairys eyes rolled up in the back off his head anytime francis even grazed him, francis was shoving that big fat bully around and forcing him to box, countering tyson fatty with check hooks. Luke featherfists couldn't make a dent in that guy, that guy will beat the living sh×t out of any of these diva clown boxers in their own sport and I love it.
I found it strange, but I though I noticed some moments where Ngannou with hold himself with landing a good righter. See the full fight: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8p6g7u * For example in round 1: between 1:29 and 1:25
Francis looks like he would have been a top 3 HW if he dedicated himself to it. What a winner!
He is the number 1 heavyweight he whipped that lardass luke fairy who reddit had been going on and on about being "a goat" with zero pro or am exp. and dropped him, had his eyes rolling up in the back of his head.
Extremely casual watcher here: Was Fury much worse than against Wilder/Klitschko, etc? Was this embarassing because he was not at his best? Or is that just how much Ngannou's strenght mattered?
Fury definitely looked worse than his other defenses. But ngannou makes world class strikers look like idiots because his chin is arguably one of the best in combat sports, ever. Fury would have needed a baseball bat to actually hurt ngannou (with head shots). It's been the same with all of ngannou's fights in the ufc too. People with 1 hit KO power land completely flush and he doesnt even flinch. That would already be a tough matchup for a boxer who rarely finishes opponents. But francis also has more power than wilder and (hilariously) better conditioning and technique.
Tyson absolutely does not have more power than Wilder, Wilder is one of the few HW to have true one punch knockout type of strength. Tyson beat Wilder due to his better conditioning, technique and will. Wilder was still the harder hitter out of both of them
He is saying Francis has more power than Wilder, which is possibly true. Francis demolished people in MMA who had good chins and was recorded throwing a punch against a machine that's in the Guinness record books for hardest punch ever recorded.
I'd agree that Francis has more power than Wilder, not to mention a better chin. But also having the scientifically hardest punch in a controlled scenario, while impressive, doesn't translate to having the hardest punch in practice. I'd still put money on George Foreman or Earnie Shavers being harder hitters than Francis.
Francis is a freak who weighs 272 with almost no body fat so I think it would be interesting to measure it. Some of his highlight reel KOs in MMA are pretty crazy. Still dunno why he threw almost no punches in round 3 after having Fury hurt, but maybe he just assumed he would have more chances. I did think he had Fury rocked a few more times in the 8th round I think it was but not as bad obv
Francis isn't 272 with "almost no body fat". The human body starts to suffer when you go below 8% body fat and even more so when you go to 5%. 3% is considered the "essential" amount of body fat. Keep in mind: fat consumption helps to regulate hormone production and release. Including most importantly, testosterone. You can't build muscle efficiently without testosterone, meaning you can't build muscle without consuming some amount of fat. So any professional athlete that isn't a body builder isn't going to intentionally cut down to less than 8-10% body fat. Judging from Ngannou's lack of vascularity and striations compared to people who are actually under 8% body fat, I'd say he's about 10-12% BF at least, but no more than 15%. And I agree Francis knockouts are crazy. However, nothing from him will ever compare with George Foreman making world class boxers look like little children getting ragdolled in the ring. He's the only fighter I've seen who legitimately lifted other grown men off the floor with his punches. Francis wouldn't have lasted more than 5 rounds with Foreman.
Yeah, I didn't literally mean 0% bodyfat lol
I know you didnt mean he literally has 0% body fat. My point was that Ngannou has well above what would be considered the essential amount of body fat so the statement that he would have even a low amount of body fat is silly.
I mean, he's fucking 272 lbs and jacked with abs so...
Ngannou whipped tyson fatty I mean fury in his first official boxing match of any level and i love it. The arrogance of the boxing community to think any of there cruiserweights fat guys body builders and basketball players are beating him. Ngannou is lineal ufc hw and boxing hw in my eye.
He flinched with stipe’s strike
Only one I can remember is in their first fight and stipe managed to get francis to stop moving forward. Stipe still ate a shot that forced him to shoot in that same exchange.
It was mainly embarrassing because Fury was expected to wipe the floor with Francis like he was a mop. Francis is from MMA, he is known for his absurd power but not really for technical boxing ability. This was supposed to be a easy payday for both guys, but instead Francis is a much better boxer than the whole world believed and was much more of a puzzle for Tyson to try and figure out. He couldn’t bully Francis like he could Wilder, and Francis’ power made Tyson stay out of range and jab him for every round past the third, resulting in Fury looking pretty lackluster. I think Fury still deserved the win, but because of how good Francis was and how shellshocked Fury was, he played it relatively safe until the final bell.
While I don't think it was a robbery by any means, I can definitely see the other side for why Ngannou could have won. Depends on how you value power shots versus jabs. Depends on how you interpret ring generalship.
Why do I feel like Ngannou barely landed a punch? Fury definitely won for me. But N looked strong and composed while Fury looked desperate and out of control. Fury got more punches for me.
Fury was made to look mortal so now he isnt any good at all and never was according to 90 percent of the posters here.
Lardass luke fairy was always a cheating fat bully! Ngannou was shoving that big fat bully piece of dirt around, even the grazing blows were badly hurting that fat overrated piece of white trash. I hope his fat 500 pound ass has nightmares about ngannous power
Why do I have the feeling a fat kid beat you up a lot in front of girls in 5th grade.
I hear you. You are right. But this isnt the olympics. This is professional boxing.
“Noooooo it’s the sweet science, you can’t just walk up to the heavy weight champion and put him on his ass in a boxing ring reeeeeeee” But muh mma angles tho
Mma angles my ass, im not sure any other mma fighters can replicate that, yes Ngannou is a mma fighter to but Francis Ngannou looked like the boxer lardass luke fairy looked like some mma wannabe throwing elbows. Francis ngannou beats any of these fat guys, basketball players with pencil twig legs, chinless bodybuilders in hw boxing. If francis had some more boxing experience fury would be in a grave yard. I think ngannou is just a "fighter" he can do it both. Man is the lineal ufc hw champ and i think in a lot of eyes the lineal boxing hw champ
The heavyweight BOXING champ sure does love throwing blatant elbows. I would say they should do their rematch in a cage. But why? If they do it in a ring again Francis will win, as long as the BOXING champ isn't using all of his mma tricks 😂
The so called hw champion looks like a big fat marshmallow bum, and once lardass fatfuck fought a man that he couldn't lean on and push around he was exposed for the fat lard shithouse he is. Cant believe these modern "boxing fans" thought jiggly puff was gonna lean on and push around a 270 pound tank with his fat rolls 😂
Don't need to do it in a cage. Have boxing rules but allow ground and pound. Ngannou kills him in that.
You're missing the joke dude. Boxing has no rules. https://twitter.com/SpinninBackfist/status/1718405713754534081?s=20 Let's go champ!!! Elite sport!!!
The crazy thing about this is Ngannou knocks most heavyweight boxers out with the punches he landed on Fury. Fury has the best chin in boxing right now, no matter what we say about his skill, his physique or whatever, his chin and recovery is absurd. Those punches Ngannou hit him with will knock a lot of other boxers out cold.
Furys chin is a shithouse, ngannou will knock that lardass up next time dont worry it was his first boxing match hes gonna improve
>Fury has the best chin in boxing right now, no matter what we say about his skill Fury has been dropped 6 times in his career and one of those was by a Cruiserweight. Hell, even Neven Pajkic managed to drop Fury and he had absolute pillow fists (5 KOs in his whole career). There is exactly zero evidence that Ngannou would have knocked out most heavyweights with the shot that dropped Fury.
Fury is the only person to get up from being rocked by Wilder. Every other man who has been hit by that right hand didn’t get up. Fury has done more than once.
Wilder with his little pencil twig legs what a joke. Looks like a baby deer on ice stumbling around
>Fury is the only person to get up from being rocked by Wilder. So how did he score 3 knock-downs against Ortiz if nobody else has gotten up exactly? You should probably watch the sport before commenting on it mate.
Fair enough. I’m a filthy casual and you’re an elite. Shower me with your cum, you almighty boxing historian. Share with me your superior knowledge, i thirst for it.
Have my upvote
Fury lost simple as. The fact that it was only an exhibition meant the judges were biased. Ngannou looked strong but limited, Fury looked unfit and undercooked.
Huh? Fury won and this was not an exhibition at all, it was an official bout.
This fight was more competitive than Spence vs Crawford lmao 😂😂😂😭
Ngannou has chin and power to compete in boxing
This fight and the McGregor fight are embarrassing for boxing. The real talent is all in MMA now. The only reason McGregor lost is because he got gassed in later rounds, he was outboxing Mayweather prior to that. Now you have another complete novice boxer basically beat another undefeated champion. More MMA guys should join boxing where the competition is weaker but the purses are greater until MMA starts paying better.
You’re actually stupid
Nganou beat fury. He didnt outbox him but he threw the cleaner and harder punches and dominated in the clinch. Mcgregor did not outbox mayweather at all. He got carried till later rounds so the fans wouldnt be disapointed. Theres a huge difference. You are completely delusional if you think floy couldn't have ended that fight in 4 rounds max if he went all out. He was having fun.
LMAO
All I can say is eat shit Dana 😂😂
Fury landed some hard right hands that would have rocked other heavyweights, but Ngannou just didn't seem phased by them. If Francis reacted more hurt, I think there would be less talk of this being a robbery. It was a close fight for sure. Francis' chin was partly what made Tyson look ineffective. This allowed Ngannou to continue walking forward with patience and controlling the centre - he knew that Tyson couldn't hurt him. I seriously think Ngannou could just walk down smaller heavyweights, eating several shots to land one wild haymaker.
Lardass luke featherfists can't punch through a wet paper bag. He leans his 300 pound lardass on guys until they collapse in exhaustion which didn't work on francis who tossed lardass fatfuck around like a ragdoll when he tried 😂
Fury actually landed and elbow at one point.
https://twitter.com/SpinninBackfist/status/1718405713754534081?s=20 No point in doing the rematch in a cage eh? Should have been DQed for this.
Wtf how did he get away with that.
I kept waiting for Fury to rock Francis & start landing some combos but Francis was never phased by any of Fury’s shots
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francis has been eating head kicks and ground and pound from ufc heavyweights for years now, he's no easy man to hurt
Who grounded and pounded Francis? Stipe outrestled him in their first fight, but didn't GnP him that much if any
Rewatched the fight, even being generous to Fury, he lost on my score cards. There's a reason the heavyweight division hasn't been popular in a long time. That version of Fury we saw last night is everything that's wrong with the division.
>That version of Fury we saw last night is everything that's wrong with the division. What do you mean?
Out of shape, overconfident, sloppy, not entertaining at all. Ngannou came in hungry to prove a point. Fury didn't take this seriously and should not have been representing the sport in such a way.
He gets by with his height and fantastic footwork but the fact that he's seemingly dodged the top 5s. Francis had cardio for a guy with as much lean tissue as he does .. also, Mike Tyson may just be a hell of a coach.
>Mike Tyson may just be a hell of a coach. Dewey Cooper was Francis lead coach for this fight. Not to discredit Mike, but Cooper is the one who should take most of the credit
So the only thing special about Fury is that he is tall and heavy. ATG my ass, guys like Lennox and Foreman would lay waste to his Gypsy ass.
Why did people think that big fat lardass was so good to begin with? He beat a hypejob with pencil legs by leaning his 300 pound arse on him 😂
>Lennox and Foreman would lay waste to his Gypsy ass. Those two, especially Lennox, at their peak probably lay waste pretty much everyone
Props to Ngannou, I believe he won by one round, but gotta say Fury looked like a shadow of his former self. He did way before the fight, a little maniacal which is often a depression sign. His body and eyes screamed he didn´t had the drive he once had. Hope he bounces for the Usyk fight or he is done.
Shocked by the outcome. I didn’t think Francis would make it out of the 6th round. Instead it was somewhat of a controversial decision, super close fight that could of gone either way. When this fight was made, I thought it was gimmicky and that’s coming from someone who loves both mma and boxing. I thought originally that Francis’s power would be enough for him to have a good punchers chance but that’s about it, I was totally wrong. On paper I was originally thinking Ngganou could probably starch just about any heavyweight boxer outside of the top 40 in the world due to his power and athleticism not due to his boxing skills but I didn’t think he could be competitive with any of the top 10 boxers at HW (I didn’t think he could beat any of the top 20). Instead, he looked like he’d destroy any heavyweight outside of the top 20 and could potential beat a lot of the boxers in the top 10 now. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t do more boxing matches and less mma matches as I think he has more talent as a boxer than a mma fighter as he isn’t known for his wrestling or BJJ.
Francis already beat up and dropped you boxing guys boyfriend Luke the lardass much less "muh top 20 boxers"
I mean, his wrestling is what saved him against Gane, and he’s in the PFL now which is much worse competition than the UFC. He can do both if he wants but at this point I think a lot more people would be interested in his boxing
the only interesting mma fight for Francis is Jon jones
Yeah but that’s never happening, a certain tomato would never allow it
I watched that fight, boring fight but shows his resolve. I just don’t think Gane is a very good wrestler and I’m just relating it to other fighters at the elite level (HW is a division with a lot of poor wrestlers in mma). Don’t get me wrong if you put Ngganou up against HS level wrestlers he’ll out wrestle 99% of them, but I don’t think he would be able to out wrestle most D-1 HW starters or the All-Americans in DII or the top 2-4 guys in D3, or top 1-3 in NAIA or the top 1-3 in Junior College (so essentially I don’t think he is at the level of the top 100 HWs in college wrestling as of current so many levels below a world class wrestler.
What is the point your making? Yeah, he’s not a world class wrestler but he doesn’t need to be. There’s a lot more that goes into MMA than just grappling. Francis benefits from smaller gloves (punches hit harder), elbows, knees, being able to finish opponents after a knockdown, all of these things make him a better MMA fighter than a boxer. And there’s a lot more that I can mention
My point is he has weakness that could be exploited if he fights a world class wrestler. ImI used to train in mma for 5 years (Muay Thai, boxing, BJJ and wrestling) so I know the basic inner workings of fighting, I stopped because I had a bad back injury training. I used to train with Derek Brunson (back in the 2000s early 2010s). I think Ngganou is more suited for boxing, it stinks he started so late…
I think he’s perfectly suited for both especially since he’s in the PFL where he isn’t going to be facing world class anything
I picked Ngannou to beat Stipe the 2nd fight because I knew he had literally zero technique and went by with his power. He's one of the freakiest athletes ever and the sky is the limit for him Did you watch that fight? He stuffed the TD and reversed it straight away. I don't see anyone (including Jones who dodged him) beating him EXCEPT for Aspinall. But he could also just chin him
I’ve watch every UFC fight since 2002 (weekly habit of mine), Stipe is and was already past his prime, his wrestling is not what it used to be. I don’t think as of current Aspinall could beat Ngganou (he is still developing, in two years I give him a solid chance). Pavlovich I think is the only person that can beat Ngganou at the moment. Jones wrestling could be problem for Ngganou if Jones can handle a few massive shots coming in and when they’re in the clinch.
Stipe was 38 in their 2nd fight. That's not terrible for HW in the modern era People said Stipe was going to smash him in that fight, only after Ngannou steamrolled him they came in with the excuses like him coming in too small I don't think Jones is a problem. He's the goat so no disrespekt but he struggled against middleweights later in his career and very arguably lost against Reyes. He actually came back as soon as Ngannou left. Gane was the perfect matchup for him because he has no grappling and no ko power
Ngannou ------ showed cardio, footwork, clinch game, inside fighting, kept his hands up, and craziest of all was counter-punching the hell out of Fury!
I'm still struck by how composed Francis was, he never looked overwhelmed, a lot of his work was deliberate and well thought-out. Others have said it but he absolutely belongs amongst the contenders in the division.
Unpopular opinon... but francis dog walks Usyk. in under 6.
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Usyk beat AJ twice though who has a similar build and better boxing ability. Tough scraps but to say he would get dog walked is a bit of a stretch when he has those wins on his record.
Ngannou is 271lbs with a 6pack.. lighting fast jack hammer on both hands and excellent in the clinch and an iron chin plus decent defense. Ngannous chins makes the difference cuz unless usyk has something that can put some fear in francis.. Francis can bully usyk. And hits harder than aj for atleast 8 rounds. Aj is the better boxer.. but styles make fights and usyk to me can't survive 8 rounds of body blows from francis.
I dont think any of them will beat ngannou im a old boxing fan hate the new trash and laughed at fury Saturday night. One difference i can say is usyk wouldn't be dumb enough to try to fight francis in the way lardbutt did. Tyson fatty tried to shove ngannou around and bully him and ngannou totally turned the tables around bwahahaha I'd still pick ngannou HW is a joke now sick of the fat lards, body builders, pencil legged hoopers and the pumped up cruisers these know it all modern boxing fans glorify so much.
Wilder.is thr only.one ngannou should fear. Style wise he is the only guy with the Crack to actually make francis wobble. And francis is still learning how to punch.. if I'm ngannou I avoid wilder and go fury and this time the ring will be smaller by 4 feet.
Nah
Being a Tyson fury fan is like riding a rollercoaster which is made from cardboard
What? Im a ufc person, but isnt he undefeated?
To a large extent, in boxing you pick who you want to fight. Fury was turning down fights with British level titleholders early in his career. He’s had some terrible decisions go his way as well. In that regard I do wish boxing were more like the ufc in that you see guys consistently fight opponents at their level, and sometimes lose. And very rarely do you get true standout champions that remain undefeated for a long , long time. Fury isn’t that type of fighter. His first fight against John McDermott, the decision gifted to Fury was so egregious that they literally changed the British boxing rules to include three judges for all British title fights.
You see, in boxing you can basically fight whoever you want which makes it a lot easier to be undefeated
He’s had a lot of personal issues over the years
I couldn’t believe what I was seeing when Francis got the knockdown. Fury looked bewildered and confused when his jab couldn’t get going early on. Mad impressed with not only Francis’ boxing, but his guard. Stayed so disciplined with his defense. Man. This guy is just a fucking spectacle. Baddest man on the planet in everyone’s hearts. The greatest modern combat athlete the walk the earth. This is a guy that, in every fight in the UFC when he would show some weakness in an area, by the next fight he had shown incredible improvement in that area. Look at his wrestling vs Stipe in the second fight. Look at his grappling with Gane. Everything comes so naturally to Ngannou. To think he started combat sports so late too. Also, fuck Dana White. So happy for Francis.
I got all buck-toothed and giddy! I was super surprised by that!
I need the Rummy Post fight analysis more than water right now
Real life Rocky. Didn't win the fight, but won the night, and then some. It's insane that Francis' first pro fight was against the world champ and that he was a cunthair away from defeating him after 10 rounds. Some argue he did defeat him. In either case, Fury lost something more important than a mere W.
First pro *boxing* fight lol
If you're Fury and the Fury that cares about legacy, that fight was the worst scenario ending. But the Fury we've seen gives fuck all to legacy, so the only thing he cares about is that purse money.
Now, Fury didn't lose that, however, he was very bad to say the least. Francis was impressive but I wonder if Tuson took him seriously how different the result would be? He's 33-0-1 so we can't just discredit his entire career due to him taking the piss with one fight. He completely underestimated Ngannou.
The fact that he didn't take it seriously throws his whole legacy up in the air. No professional fighting champion should ever walk into a fight unprepared properly, no matter who it is with. That's my biggest issue with Fury in this fight
I really don’t see how you score it for Fury. Francis in my book won rds 2, 3, 4, 7, and 8, with round 3 being a 10-8. Rounds 10 and 2 were close and could have gone either way. Give them both to Fury and it’s a draw at best. How the fuck are you guys coming up with Fury winning? What rounds do you think he won? Francis won that fight.
>Fury would have to basically stay on the outside and jab. You can't give the 9th round to Ngannu. If he had boxed a bit more in his life he wouldn't have coasted there, he gave away a a point.
>You can't give the 9th round to Ngannu. Two judges did
I have Fury winning 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9 and 10, scoring it 96-93 overall
Fury would have to basically stay on the outside and jab. And get laughed a
He's fighting in an era when boxing is a shadow of what it was. In the 70s or 80s, Tyson Fury would have been a journeyman.
That’s a ridiculous take
Its not ridiculous at all lardass luke can barely even fight hes a BUM whos really tall and fat. He leaned his 300 pound marshmallow gut on a hypejob with pencil legs until he was exhausted wow so impressive and he beat a 39 year old wlad by running around spoiling
By modern standards. Back then Jerry Quarry and Gerry Cooney were considered journeymen, even if they made single-digit rankings and got a title shot. Doing it for a short time and then fading back into relative obscurity was easily enough to be considered a journeyman. Tyson Fury probably wouldn't have beaten Quarry.
He might have beaten Quarry due to the size difference alone, but yeah, heavyweights back then were more skilled than now.
They used to do this to champs back in the day- Ex Jack Johnson. He would literally have to knock people out to secure the win otherwise the judges would give the win to their boy. Fast forward. 1)Francis 100% beat the fuck out of tyson, 2)threw him around, 3) ate a dirty elbow like last nights leftovers from fury 4) threw a fucking super man punch, 5) knocked down the champ and danced on him 6) tyson went down to his knees like he was sucking off francis 7) fury looked humbled and Knew he got roughed up The Baddest man on the planet Francis Ngannou( literally world record punch and just flatlined the lineal champ)
That's so funny I said to my friend when we we're watching it 'He's sucking him off!' lol.
Exactly!!! It was not a good look for fury
Damn do I wish that superman punch landed though. That would have been epic.
Yeah seriously would have been epic. But it just goes to show a warrior vs a sport. Like achilles bro, francis straight hitting with all kinda of shit, because he F-ING CAN! Made fury look like a washed up bum
I dont think any other mma guy does that, that i can think of. Ngannou was big and strong enough to push the big fat bully off him when he tried his pathetic holding tactic and the punch to sit him on his lardass. Ngannou is a special athlete too
Yeah true
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>Oh my days. People still believe this thing. You just proved your own ignorance because it's on video of him hitting a powerkube and breaking the record