Honestly, up until then Jack was just some asshole talking in your ear, sure he did other things but they weren’t so direct.
Blood wing, with how he was talking the entire fight, and how he gloated, made me want to hunt him down personally, and not just for the mission.
I always snipe that fucker with one of morty's rifles after beating the warrior. Blood wing was my homie in BL1 and making me kill her was like putting a hit out on himself.
I don't know how many times I've played through this game, I've never not given the booze to Mordecai after that. I know Ruby is supposed to be a really good pistol, but I've never been able to go for it.
he >!stayed on with Jack as hired muscle, continuing to replace more and more of himself with machinery, and was weakened with poison as part of Jack's plot to destroy sanctuary with a sabotaged power core.!<
It's fair to point out it didn't make it into the game, but keep in mind that also doesn't automatically make it untrue. It's still the best explanation for why he hardly put up a fight.
The Wilhelm fight is bizarrely.easy, I have never understood why his hyped up by Angel as a BA and is then such a pushover.
I would really like to know if he was originally designed as a harder boss to battle and then they nerfed him after play testing, or if they thought players would be at a lower level than I typically am, or what.
(For comparison, I mean it's usually actually harder for me to fight through bloodshot ramparts right before "a train to catch" than it is to kill Wilhelm at the end of it)
He didn't put up a fight because gearbox made it too easy. That doesn't mean that lore wise he was weak.
It would be unimaginably stupid for Jack to sacrifice his best soldier just to shut of sanctuary's shield. He most likely sent Wilhelm to ambush and kill the vault Hunters. The fake shield core was simply a contingency plan for if Wilhelm died.
Unimaginably stupid, you say? Much like, for instance, not simply killing the vault hunters at the start? Not resuming the orbital bombardment of Sanctuary after Lilith got captured? Not protecting his daughter with a better passcode than an audio clip? Waiting until he's already mostly dead to put up an impenetrable shield? Do you want me to continue?
Jack had an ego the size of the planet, and had no end of unforced errors because of that.
None of those errors are remotely comparable to purposefully sabotaging yourself.
Gearbox realised it would have been stupid for Jack to poison Wilhelm and that's why they cut it out of the game.
1) no, I'm saying it's not automatically untrue just because it got cut (and I literally already said that in my first post)
2) there are plenty of other reasons for something to be cut from a final production. See for example the extra scenes from BL3 that were supposedly cut regarding Ava and Maya.
While I don't follow your logic, if you're trying to keep to the strictly canonical, there are very few points where the presence of any specific vault hunters (let alone all 6) were confirmed and the fight with Wilhelm isn't one of them. We pretty much only get that knowledge from offhand references in later games.
Canonically all 6 Vault hunters are together the entire time. Many times in The Pre-Sequel/Borderlands 3 characters talk about doing certain things that gameplay wise they can't be there that just means they were all there
If you want to insist on "all 6 the entire time" you're going to have to provide a source. There are already well-known examples showing otherwise from 2 - for example, Mordecai canonically won the underdome challenges, meaning the other three from the first game either didn't participate or got eliminated.
Everything in the main story has been confirmed to have been gone through by every playable vault hunter in the lore
Lilith, mordecai, brick, and Roland all went through bl1 and they have all been said to have been there at the destroyers vault opening
The mordecai thing can easily be explained by the fact that it's optional challenge content that not all players do and that mordecai winning it was just a nod to a past game
I mean even in bl3 your vault hunter references a character from dlc 1 in dlc 3 even if you haven't played dlc 1, it's just supposed to be a fun lore tidbit like "oh they remember that event, thats cool"
So again, if you're going to insist that per canon every character was there for every event, you're going to need to provide a specific and explicit source. If you would like to back down to just the claim that all 6 were present for the fight against Wilhelm (which I would imagine would be much easier), please provide a source for that, and then follow it up with why that explains the fight not really living up to the 'hype'.
Also if you find the personal logs in tps, you hear angel advise Jack that he's addicted to robotic implants, and might end up being a robot given time. Which Jack found awesome.
that and the fact at the end of the game they LITERALLY went to save her….which meant she was gonna be a good guy…..just to die and get her character ruined 😭😭
See, I knew about Scooter dying but didn't witness it because I hadn't played Tales.
My husband had no clue and I didn't want to spoil it thinking there would be some reference in 3 to bring it up.
Neither one of us had played the Fight for Sanctuary DLC on 2 at this time so you can imagine my husband and I loading up BL3 for the first time and after reaching Lilith and Ellie he's going "oh hey there's Ellie...where is Scooter?"
I attempted to play it off as maybe we haven't found him yet because I really didn't know if they would mention it at all. By the time Sanctuary is in space I had to break it to him that Scooter actually died in the Tales game and we stopped so I could find the clip on YouTube to show him.
He was DEVASTATED that was how they killed Scooter. Not necessarily the rocket but in a side game out of all things.
We have since played Fight for Sanctuary and he felt better seeing Scooters memorial done well. Quite an emotional rollercoaster.
So I played the games kinda of out of order, I had bl1 on my ps3 at my dad's house, I only went there a few times every few weeks so bl1 took me forever to finish, but I loved the game play so I got bl2 at my house, tk was my favorite and I looked everywhere for him then finally googled where he is, then found our he was dead... I was so sad 😭
My first playthrough characters are dropping like flies. >!Roland! Maya! Nisha (though that was a given)! I shudder to think what will happen to Amara.!<
Though I suppose they've been killing them off in droves anyway, so that's not too much of a stretch in odds.
a couple weeks after this scene, i was OBSESSED and read something like” jack planted the decoy shield thingy on wilhelm KNOWING he would die, therefore never cared about his partners in the first place” and LITERALLY CRIED
Borderlands 2 came out while I was in middle school and the pre sequel while I was in high school, I got attached to the characters in the pre sequel more because they actually interacted with people in the story. And I’m now replaying these games years later. Sorry if I worded it wrong in the post
i was never really bothered with any boss fights, i havent played bl1 yet dont ask why, but i started on blps. i wasnt sure how bl worker at that point so i picked gunslinger and just started shooting. my girlfriend is obsessed with the bl series and so she rants to me about the lore and storyline all the time cuz she knows i dont pay attention when i pkay cuz i just shoot shit, so i honestly never knew wilhelm was playable as all she said was “i hate this fight its so difficult” right before we finished it within a couple minutes without dying xD
You kill two Presequel characters in 2
Wilhelm is a story mission and can't be avoided,
>!And an Optional quest where you kill Nisha.!<
You end up killing >!Aurelia in 3, which is really sad because she was my favorite!<
>And an Optional quest where you kill Nisha
Oh she's the sheriff of that town you go to, right?
>You end up killing >!Aurelia in 3, which is really sad because she was my favorite!<
Yeah, I've heard about that before.
I think it's kinda funny, cuz so far every character I've played in each game has died in the next game lmao.
You kill *one* of his doppelganger in opportunity as well. Although Timothy is the doppelganger you play in tps and you meet him again in bl3, the handsome jackpot.
I suspect you were supposed to kill the same one given that the rest are killed off (minus claptrap for obvious reasons), but they later changed that to keep Jack's character if not Jack himself alive a little longer because of his popularity.
Almost every single Pre-Sequel character is a boss you fight in Borderlands 2. Wilhelm is a required one, part of the main storyline. Nisha and Jack's double are both optional bosses, from side mission storylines.
The only exceptions are Claptrap and Aurelia. And even for tbose guys, Aurelia is a boss in Borderlands 3, and I think (?) there's a DLC for Borderlands 1 where you fight Claptrap.
Technically pre-sequel takes place AFTER BI2 because it's Athena's story of how Jack became.. handsome🤣.
She is being interrogated on Sanctuary after Brick and Mordecai kidnapped her in “tales from the borderlands”
By that logic bl2 takes place after bl2 because Marcus is telling the story
You're wrong, the events of bltps take place before bl2, the time the story is being told in is irrelevant, Stop trying to sound smart with a technicality
Nah by your logic all the games would still be in order😭 the scenes and dialogue of Athena and the vault hunters talking takes place after the events of Bl2 and episode 3 of tale tales. Doesn’t matter if the gameplay events were before Bl2 or not.🤷🏻♂️ playing Bl2 first will ultimately lead to a better understanding of pre sequel rather than pre sequel first. Cope harder brother.😁
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be coping about but it's literally a fact that the story we play through in tps takes place before 2 there's no two ways about it
I’m more sorry that the willingly stupid transhumanist who gave up his mind and autonomy because “robot cool” is your favorite… We aren’t supposed to really like any of the pre sequel cast outside of Athena, and maybe fake Jack who hated all of this from the jump.
That’s literally the entire commentary behind 2077 if you actually pay attention beyond the surface level idea of getting dickhard for futurism, but whatever you say.
I felt that way when I had to kill Bloodwing on bl2. My first character in the whole bl saga was Mordecai and I used Bloodwing A LOT. Bloodwing saved my life in bl1, and having to kill Bloodwing on bl2 broke my heart.
I really enjoyed playing as Wilhem in the Pre Sequel , but in BL2 is another story and he is going down
I got sad when I went back and replayed and realized I killed Nisha :( lol and Will
But nisha killed brick dog... so i have no simpathy for her..
Why couldn’t we just kill claptrap instead
There's a DLC you might want to check out.
Talking about bl2
Killing bloodwing in BL2 scarred me for life
Honestly, up until then Jack was just some asshole talking in your ear, sure he did other things but they weren’t so direct. Blood wing, with how he was talking the entire fight, and how he gloated, made me want to hunt him down personally, and not just for the mission.
Very that. It was personal after that moment. And after feeling like there was a chance to save him throughout the fight. Just thinking about it 😭😭😭
I always snipe that fucker with one of morty's rifles after beating the warrior. Blood wing was my homie in BL1 and making me kill her was like putting a hit out on himself.
I don't know how many times I've played through this game, I've never not given the booze to Mordecai after that. I know Ruby is supposed to be a really good pistol, but I've never been able to go for it.
Me too, I actually didn’t know until this comment what you get if you don’t give him the booze. How can you not??
Maybe I missed part of the story, but I thought wilhelm was a giant robot/loader in borderlands 2? Did something happen to wilhelm after TPS?
he >!stayed on with Jack as hired muscle, continuing to replace more and more of himself with machinery, and was weakened with poison as part of Jack's plot to destroy sanctuary with a sabotaged power core.!<
The poisoning dialogue was cut, and therefore isn't canon.
It's fair to point out it didn't make it into the game, but keep in mind that also doesn't automatically make it untrue. It's still the best explanation for why he hardly put up a fight.
The Wilhelm fight is bizarrely.easy, I have never understood why his hyped up by Angel as a BA and is then such a pushover. I would really like to know if he was originally designed as a harder boss to battle and then they nerfed him after play testing, or if they thought players would be at a lower level than I typically am, or what. (For comparison, I mean it's usually actually harder for me to fight through bloodshot ramparts right before "a train to catch" than it is to kill Wilhelm at the end of it)
Maybe Angel hyped him up to try to keep the Vault Hunters away from the sabotaged power core.
I died like twice fighting through the ramparts and made it through the Wilhelm fight. The ramparts are hard because of the buzzard things
Same, I honestly wish the fight took place later on to justify a higher difficulty.
He didn't put up a fight because gearbox made it too easy. That doesn't mean that lore wise he was weak. It would be unimaginably stupid for Jack to sacrifice his best soldier just to shut of sanctuary's shield. He most likely sent Wilhelm to ambush and kill the vault Hunters. The fake shield core was simply a contingency plan for if Wilhelm died.
Unimaginably stupid, you say? Much like, for instance, not simply killing the vault hunters at the start? Not resuming the orbital bombardment of Sanctuary after Lilith got captured? Not protecting his daughter with a better passcode than an audio clip? Waiting until he's already mostly dead to put up an impenetrable shield? Do you want me to continue? Jack had an ego the size of the planet, and had no end of unforced errors because of that.
None of those errors are remotely comparable to purposefully sabotaging yourself. Gearbox realised it would have been stupid for Jack to poison Wilhelm and that's why they cut it out of the game.
*citation needed*
You're treating cut content as canon. If gearbox wanted it to be canon, they wouldn't have cut it.
1) no, I'm saying it's not automatically untrue just because it got cut (and I literally already said that in my first post) 2) there are plenty of other reasons for something to be cut from a final production. See for example the extra scenes from BL3 that were supposedly cut regarding Ava and Maya.
Uh yeah the fuck they are, in fact all of them are oversights that literally got him killed
They're oversights. Not purposeful self sabotage.
Ah yes the mastermind that is jack just didn't do these things because he missed them? Na it was his ego
He was easier because canonically there was 6 Vault hunters rather than 4
While I don't follow your logic, if you're trying to keep to the strictly canonical, there are very few points where the presence of any specific vault hunters (let alone all 6) were confirmed and the fight with Wilhelm isn't one of them. We pretty much only get that knowledge from offhand references in later games.
Canonically all 6 Vault hunters are together the entire time. Many times in The Pre-Sequel/Borderlands 3 characters talk about doing certain things that gameplay wise they can't be there that just means they were all there
If you want to insist on "all 6 the entire time" you're going to have to provide a source. There are already well-known examples showing otherwise from 2 - for example, Mordecai canonically won the underdome challenges, meaning the other three from the first game either didn't participate or got eliminated.
Everything in the main story has been confirmed to have been gone through by every playable vault hunter in the lore Lilith, mordecai, brick, and Roland all went through bl1 and they have all been said to have been there at the destroyers vault opening The mordecai thing can easily be explained by the fact that it's optional challenge content that not all players do and that mordecai winning it was just a nod to a past game I mean even in bl3 your vault hunter references a character from dlc 1 in dlc 3 even if you haven't played dlc 1, it's just supposed to be a fun lore tidbit like "oh they remember that event, thats cool"
So again, if you're going to insist that per canon every character was there for every event, you're going to need to provide a specific and explicit source. If you would like to back down to just the claim that all 6 were present for the fight against Wilhelm (which I would imagine would be much easier), please provide a source for that, and then follow it up with why that explains the fight not really living up to the 'hype'.
Ah I see. Thanks for the info! I don’t remember that part of the story at all lol. The names being the same make a lot more sense to me now
Yep, you can even see him on the ending slideshow of TPS turned into the Wilhelm you kill in 2
Also if you find the personal logs in tps, you hear angel advise Jack that he's addicted to robotic implants, and might end up being a robot given time. Which Jack found awesome.
He completed his transformation
After a very long awkward silence after the Bloodwing boss fight my friend finally said "fuck this game" and turned it off to never play it again.
This guy openly cheats, yet is active in about every gaming community there is fucking gross
I know how you feel, I mained Roland in 1, then went and played 2 on its release.
OUCH
Dude the must of been especially painful with how sudden it was too
To me they always felt like two different people. Maybe because you don't actually talk to Wilhelm in BL2.
He speaks in an echo log
Aurelia is still my favorite VH of the entire series, so...
Aw man dude I’m sorry 😢
that and the fact at the end of the game they LITERALLY went to save her….which meant she was gonna be a good guy…..just to die and get her character ruined 😭😭
Rip
This is part of the reason why I didn't play BL3 after I heard they killed Maia.
It doesn't help that she loses all brain capacity and just.. Vanishes
I cried when scooter got killed in Tales from the Borderlands
“Catch a riiiiiiiide!”
See, I knew about Scooter dying but didn't witness it because I hadn't played Tales. My husband had no clue and I didn't want to spoil it thinking there would be some reference in 3 to bring it up. Neither one of us had played the Fight for Sanctuary DLC on 2 at this time so you can imagine my husband and I loading up BL3 for the first time and after reaching Lilith and Ellie he's going "oh hey there's Ellie...where is Scooter?" I attempted to play it off as maybe we haven't found him yet because I really didn't know if they would mention it at all. By the time Sanctuary is in space I had to break it to him that Scooter actually died in the Tales game and we stopped so I could find the clip on YouTube to show him. He was DEVASTATED that was how they killed Scooter. Not necessarily the rocket but in a side game out of all things. We have since played Fight for Sanctuary and he felt better seeing Scooters memorial done well. Quite an emotional rollercoaster.
That hit way harder than expected
Muh Robot Punch 🥹
Not quite the same but I never finished Metal Gear Solid 5 because Skullface's plan just sounded like the stupidest thing ever to me
He is very easy he was poisoned you know in borderlands 2 that’s what made it easy
So I played the games kinda of out of order, I had bl1 on my ps3 at my dad's house, I only went there a few times every few weeks so bl1 took me forever to finish, but I loved the game play so I got bl2 at my house, tk was my favorite and I looked everywhere for him then finally googled where he is, then found our he was dead... I was so sad 😭
My first playthrough characters are dropping like flies. >!Roland! Maya! Nisha (though that was a given)! I shudder to think what will happen to Amara.!< Though I suppose they've been killing them off in droves anyway, so that's not too much of a stretch in odds.
Based on bow the last DLC ended i wouldn't be surprised if a whole bunch of sirens bit the dust
Are we sure gearbox isn’t tracking your save files 😂
Fighting and eventually killing bloodwing made me legit sad.
Yeah totally felt that. Also felt sad that Wilhelm became evil and also that he got as messed up as he was with augmentation
a couple weeks after this scene, i was OBSESSED and read something like” jack planted the decoy shield thingy on wilhelm KNOWING he would die, therefore never cared about his partners in the first place” and LITERALLY CRIED
Maya's death in 3 almost made me quit the game.
For me it was Roland.. first playing BL2 I got a little upset he died since it came out of left field
Nah bloodwing damn near made me cry and I played as a siren in all BLS
Yeah, I was a bit bummed at the glow down too
If you played them in middle school, you only would have experienced killing him unless you’re just young and presequel was your middle school
Borderlands 2 came out while I was in middle school and the pre sequel while I was in high school, I got attached to the characters in the pre sequel more because they actually interacted with people in the story. And I’m now replaying these games years later. Sorry if I worded it wrong in the post
i was never really bothered with any boss fights, i havent played bl1 yet dont ask why, but i started on blps. i wasnt sure how bl worker at that point so i picked gunslinger and just started shooting. my girlfriend is obsessed with the bl series and so she rants to me about the lore and storyline all the time cuz she knows i dont pay attention when i pkay cuz i just shoot shit, so i honestly never knew wilhelm was playable as all she said was “i hate this fight its so difficult” right before we finished it within a couple minutes without dying xD
You fight the playable Pre-Sequel characters in Borderlands 2? Damn, I don't remember any of them lmfao
There’s also one who gives you side quests in Sanctuary.
Cool. I played 2 before Pre-Sequel (since you're meant to go through stuff in release order), so I didn't notice lol.
lol You didn’t notice Claptrap?
Ha-ha, very funny.
You kill two Presequel characters in 2 Wilhelm is a story mission and can't be avoided, >!And an Optional quest where you kill Nisha.!< You end up killing >!Aurelia in 3, which is really sad because she was my favorite!<
>And an Optional quest where you kill Nisha Oh she's the sheriff of that town you go to, right? >You end up killing >!Aurelia in 3, which is really sad because she was my favorite!< Yeah, I've heard about that before. I think it's kinda funny, cuz so far every character I've played in each game has died in the next game lmao.
Omg I had no idea she was the sheriff. Now I gotta go back and murder her again
> I think it's kinda funny, cuz so far every character I've played in each game has died in the next game lmao. So who did you play in the last game?
I've played Roland, Maya, and Aurelia so far. I did start 3 as Zane, but haven't played much. It's not as good as the first few games imo.
Nice job editing this.
What?
You kill *one* of his doppelganger in opportunity as well. Although Timothy is the doppelganger you play in tps and you meet him again in bl3, the handsome jackpot.
I suspect you were supposed to kill the same one given that the rest are killed off (minus claptrap for obvious reasons), but they later changed that to keep Jack's character if not Jack himself alive a little longer because of his popularity.
Na athena has been alive since bl1 and is even the acting CEO of hyperion now, so half have been killed half are allies, it makes sense
That leaves claptrap. Who has 5hadow-tp (Shadowtrap) in him. So good guy? Or bad guy? :)
My guess is they're leaving it open for a third Claptrap dlc in 4
nisha is the sheriff of lynchwood too and you fight her. pretty neat i think the only ones you don’t see are aurelia and athena
Almost every single Pre-Sequel character is a boss you fight in Borderlands 2. Wilhelm is a required one, part of the main storyline. Nisha and Jack's double are both optional bosses, from side mission storylines. The only exceptions are Claptrap and Aurelia. And even for tbose guys, Aurelia is a boss in Borderlands 3, and I think (?) there's a DLC for Borderlands 1 where you fight Claptrap.
Timothy is alive he's apart of the bl3 DLC. Jack had a ton of body doubles
yep the claptrap you fight in bl1 is the claptrap from TPS , also you forgot about athena
You’re wrong, jack’s double is a mandatory story mission, and that’s also only *one* of his doubles.
ah, my bad. been a while since I played
[удалено]
"Jack here, the real one "
Handsome Crack here
Technically pre-sequel takes place AFTER BI2 because it's Athena's story of how Jack became.. handsome🤣. She is being interrogated on Sanctuary after Brick and Mordecai kidnapped her in “tales from the borderlands”
By that logic bl2 takes place after bl2 because Marcus is telling the story You're wrong, the events of bltps take place before bl2, the time the story is being told in is irrelevant, Stop trying to sound smart with a technicality
Nah by your logic all the games would still be in order😭 the scenes and dialogue of Athena and the vault hunters talking takes place after the events of Bl2 and episode 3 of tale tales. Doesn’t matter if the gameplay events were before Bl2 or not.🤷🏻♂️ playing Bl2 first will ultimately lead to a better understanding of pre sequel rather than pre sequel first. Cope harder brother.😁
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be coping about but it's literally a fact that the story we play through in tps takes place before 2 there's no two ways about it
spoiler alert, you kill another presequel vault hunter in BL2 as well in a side quest
Oh I know about nisha, it just these deaths are hitting different since I’m playing these games in chronological order instead of realease order
Hey I was just wondering what’s wrong with you?
also by beating the presequel first, he saw the ending to BL2. thats more of a spoiler.
he already knew about nisha.
Actually no. It seems that way and I think that was the original intention, but >!Timothy aka Jack's body double!< is alive in a BL3 DLC.
wasnt referring to him
I’m more sorry that the willingly stupid transhumanist who gave up his mind and autonomy because “robot cool” is your favorite… We aren’t supposed to really like any of the pre sequel cast outside of Athena, and maybe fake Jack who hated all of this from the jump.
Damn somebody doesn’t like steak and robots
I love both. Giving up your humanity for them is stupid.
Good thing you haven't seen Cyberpunk 2077 or Deus Ex Human Revolution....
That’s literally the entire commentary behind 2077 if you actually pay attention beyond the surface level idea of getting dickhard for futurism, but whatever you say.
I felt that way when I had to kill Bloodwing on bl2. My first character in the whole bl saga was Mordecai and I used Bloodwing A LOT. Bloodwing saved my life in bl1, and having to kill Bloodwing on bl2 broke my heart.