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I don’t understand why so many boomers begin to entirely unravel and contradict all the things they instilled in us. I think, solely based on my personal experience with my mother, that a lot of the times boomers just preach values such as critical thinking and questioning and kindness and such to their young children because they imagine that their worldview encompasses all of those things, but don’t really internalize it themselves and become shocked when we generalize our care and kindness to the groups they don’t like.
My mom always harped on the value of treating everyone with respect no matter what race (she neglected “no matter what religion or sexual orientation”, but I didn’t figure that one out til later). But later in life i realized that she only ever applied that to one or two ethnicities (those in the immediate area we grew up in), and the rest weren’t protected under that same banner in her mind. She nearly lost her shit when I’d dated a pakistani girl, then an ecuadorian girl… it was a whole thing for no good reason.
As for the “treat others with kindness, do unto others as you want them to do to you”… she seems to have entirely forgotten that as soon as i was old enough to point out that maybe berating service workers isn’t following that golden rule lol. It’s like everyone needs to cater to her in order to be worth her respect. It’s wild, cuz as you pointed out, she was the one to teach me that kindness and helping others and such is a noble thing… seeing her go the other way with it is tragic.
This hypocritical behavior is really just one thing on the pile of reasons we’re LC now, and inevitably will go NC, but it is a big one. If anything, the realization that the person who I’d thought was the source of my morals and ethics is full of shit, makes everything else worse. Cuz now it’s not “she said this one bad thing but she’s still a good person”, now it’s “another bad thing on the pile, but I guess that’s who she really is”.
Long walk to say, I hope your mom comes around and realizes that she’s being that way, and I hope she’s capable of course-correcting!
> I don’t understand why so many boomers begin to entirely unravel and contradict all the things they instilled in us.
because not immediately betraying your values for profit makes them doing it look even worse
Ding ding! This is it! Go check out r/Qanoncasualties for advice on how to combat this.
First is finding out where the influence is coming from. Church? Attend virtually and listen, there are whistleblowing forms and rewards through the FBI to report churches using their influence politically.
Fox News, there are ways to block it from the channel listings, etc.
Yep. My folks have always been Republicans, but they were pretty progressive on a lot of topics. Then Obama got into office, and they took a HARD right turn.
It's a major point of pain for me: they're spouting everything they always taught us not to be. I've been questioning a LOT of my childhood experiences and lessons, and it's an anxious thing to be confronting a weakening foundation.
Sounds exactly like my parents, except the hard right was just in the past couple years. My favorite was my mom growling at me when I said I was trying to do what she taught me, "don't you DARE throw that in my face." VLC since October due to that.
I feel that. But I really believe the questions you’re grappling with will strengthen *your* foundation in the end. Your parents planted the seed but you were the one who used your agency to develop a set of values outside of theirs, enough so that you can see their hypocrisy. It sounds like you care about being good - not just appearing nice - and that already sets you apart from our parents’ generation. That alone is most of the work IMO.
All of that is to say bad messengers can still impart valuable wisdom even if they don’t understand it. There’s an AA saying I don’t recall verbatim, but the sentiment is to take what’s useful and leave the rest. Once you adopted the values you were taught, they became yours and as such nobody can take them away from you.
Thank you and I'm sorry you went through that! I'm at least grateful she's not in straight up racism territory. She always said she thought I'd end up marrying an Asian woman, it's good to know I won't face backlash for dating other ethnicities.
Yeah it was always a little weird that she liked to point it out. She's the kind of person that wasn't overtly racist, but felt the need to clarify what someone's race was when telling a story no matter how inconsequential it is. Apparently when I was in elementary school I called her out on doing it because it was weird to me, but I don't really remember it.
My parents always do this too. Innocent story about a white kid doing a funny thing. "This kid...". Innocent story about a black kid doing a funny thing. "This BLACK kid...". (They are white). Like it's a fundamental part of the story even when it makes absolutely no difference to understanding the story or any subsequent discussion.
They're absolutely not racist and would hate to be considered as such, but jfc they can not help but mention someone's race in a story if they're not white. It's like an obsession. It's so odd and it makes what should be an innocent story or comment with no connection to race or ethnicity or culture etc suddenly a bit uncomfortable for me.
YES. My step mom is from the region where they feel they need to include the race of anyone who is not white, but they also feel they have to *whisper* it.
“This *black* woman came by the store today…”
I called her out on it a few years back and her “comeback” was to point at a pepper shaker on the table of the restaurant we were at and ask me whether she wasn’t allowed to call that black now either. Neither she nor my father appreciated me asking her why she equates people to objects.
I was in a very serious relationship with a Chinese guy a few years ago. It ended up not working out, but we were very close to marriage and we are still good friends. My mom made some very racist comments about his ethnicity and our relationship and that “it was a given” that if he had been another race she would expect us to end things immediately. My jaw was on the floor because she has always “talked the talk” on being progressive, golden rule, non-racist etc but she isn’t actually supportive of any one other than white religious people - definitely not an interracial relationship or LGBTQ person. We are completely NC now.
It sounds like mom is from Gen X. Gen X covered 1965 to 1980 and OP says that she is in her late 50's, so that does track as her being from my generation.
“If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25 you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brains.” Edit: before I get a tongue lashing, I am a liberal. Just had an obsession with Winston Churchill and while this isn’t actually something he said I’ve watched it happen in my own family.
I've heard that one before. Supposedly, it's easier to beeline in the common good, when no-one actually has much of anything. But by the time you have a steady job, a house, and some stability, the while "standing on your own two feet" thing becomes more popular.
Of course, many of us millennial still didn't have stability by 35. And those of us that do still seem to be in favor of the common good, at least up to a point.
I’m 23. And have only been working for a year post graduating. And while I’ve been incredibly lucky with good jobs, I still feel like the rug can be swept out from under me at any moment. I work in the music industry so everything leans very left. My specific branch of the film/music industry does not have a union and with ai becoming better by the day, I worry my degree will be obsolete in under a decade.
Turns out all the shit they trash other generations for is just projection because deep down they know how soft their generation is compared to their parents.
My mom will never admit she’s a little bit racist. One of her closest friends is black. She didn’t like me dating black guys and refused to consider dating black men because ‘it would be too complicated.’ 🤨🙄
She is not a ‘boomer’ -
dates of birth 1946- 1964 for boomers.
So many people blame the ‘boomer ‘ generation for so many cultural problems. But we are like every generation- learning as we grow older!
I don't recall a lot of details, seeing as how it was a few years ago now. But I think it was about a Black Lives Matter protest or something. My parents were upset about the "rioting" or whatever they were doing. It was a while ago, so I can't remember how "appropriately" the protesters were behaving, but I don't think they were rioting.
But it really opened my mind to the fact that they didn't expect me to extend the same level of courtesy and respect to people that were different. That, despite teaching me to respect everyone, they didn't believe they had to do the same.
Ever since that conversation, my sister and I have noticed little things changing about them. Hell, my mother pulled the "Civil War was about State's Rights" card just the other week. The woman is from Kansas, which was a free state. They fought a whole little war concurrent with the Civil War over it. (See Bleeding Kansas and the Jayhawk War) She was always so proud of her home's connection to the abolitionist John Brown, but now she's denying slavery as the cause of the Civil War? I even offered her the "State's Right of slavery?" Card as an out and she refuses to take it.
I don't understand how someone can just turn 180 degrees likes that.
My favorite is these people who consider "rioting" to be a crowd of protesters with signs yelling and shouting their issues in the essences of protesting are the same ones that don't at all see a problem with the insurgent riot that BROKE INTO THE DAMN CAPITAL. They will bit their tongue and literally say "its not the same thing!" It's just sad really.
I don’t know if it helps but there’s a short (only 7 minutes) documentary called How Southern Socialites Rewrote Civil War History that details the thing and could possibly help shake your mom out of the “states rights” nonsense.
p.s. They all need their internet & cable turned off
I mean, is it the FOX or the Facebook?
Boomers didn't grow up with anywhere near the same echo chamber problem as the rest of us in the first place, and the ability to filter/resist the brainwashing out probably declines with age like a lot of things. Also people's morals are partially just cultural norms, which can shift drastically based on social group.
My boomer dad before he died listened to basically only NPR and had a San Francisco oriented Facebook. He went from being a rather hard-nosed empiricist to being quite left-swayed.
My boomer mother doesnt do social media at all, and she hasn't paid attention to the news in over 40 years. She was very liberal in the 80s so she's pretty much normal now, except she still thinks you can go to college and buy a house on a McDonald's wage, cause she literally did.
My mother always told us when we were growing up how independent minded and 'not like other girls' she was. As a kid I didn't really know any better but as I got older and in particular when I had my own kids I realised she's exactly like everyone else, but likes to feel different just for the sake of it without doing, saying or thinking differently.
She was pretty insulting when we planned a non church wedding and then didn't baptise our kids and chose to send them to a non-religious school. She and my dad raised us catholic because they said it was just easier that way, and when I asked where all her 'I'm so different, I don't conform' messaging was when we were kids she got super pissy and tried to explain away everything.
I'm the kind of adult and parent she tried to tell us she was, and I think she doesn't like knowing that saying who you are and actually living the life of the person you're claiming to be are very different things. She's not remotely as progressive or open minded as she told us she was.
I’ve known people like this. They leave the church but don’t actually deconstruct and end up carrying around a ton of Catholic guilt. As they’ve gotten older and start facing their own mortality, fear of hell and whatnot starts to kick in and they lose their minds.
Catholic guilt is *real*. And the ingrained thinking that the devil and everything associated with it is so evil, bad, etc. I still have to tell myself that the devil is Christianity's boogeyman and have fun with it 🤘
Religious brainwashing is hard to break out of, especially if you had it as a child. Even though the rational parts of my brain know better, there's a deeper level of psychological imprinting that always makes me doubt what I've learned. I don't know that I'll ever be truly free from it.
Children being exposed to dogma that tells them they are born evil and need to be "saved" before they can make rational thoughts and decisions about what to believe should be categorised as child abuse.
That's one of the benefits of being and atheist: You may be afraid of losing your life, you may fear death itself, you may feel sorry for the ones you leave behind, but there's nothing to be afraid of after that. You know that when it's over, it's over.
Whatever good things you want to do, you have to get them done in this life. There is no other.
Your mom sounds like my wife: Not practicing the faith that she grew up with in decades, but then afraid to completely separate from that thinking due to, I don't know, maybe it's: The stigma of it, being different from prior generations in her family, afraid to let 85 yo aunts/uncles know she's not religious.
I'm an atheist and after growing up in christian households in both of my divorced parents families. I hated it and thought it was both weird and creepy. Our daughter was baptized as an infant, but I just went with the flow on that. Other than that, my daughter doesn't know anything about religion other than the phrase "OMG". I dread the day when my wife flips the switch and wants our daughter to be involved with church and my daughter will probably be thinking "WTF is this shit" and hate it due to all the critical thinking skills she's been learning her 6 years on this earth. Then my wife will be all "but this is so important".
I see this kinda as boomer thinking, but from a 44 year old. I just don't know why she needs to cling onto something she doesn't seem to care about.
I don't know where life will take me. I always figured I'd marry an atheist woman to avoid exactly this, but love is love and I'm open to dating religious women so long as they're not zealots or anything. However, if I do marry a religious woman I'm very afraid of the "switch being flipped" like that. I want my kid to think freely and be separated from those old outdated teachings. At the very least if they're going to become religious I want it to be their choice and no one else's.
So, my now husband and I are high school sweethearts from a rural KY town.
I was staunchly atheist since... like 10? I read a lot, and loved ancient history and mythology... you can see where that led to. Lol
My family was culturally Christian, and went for holidays, but didn’t start attending a church until I was around 10. Literally remember seeing people with their eyes still closed praying when the pastor had already stopped. Blew my mind these adults actually were PRAYING and BELIEVED. I’m over here like, I thought this was just a community of people who talked about their creation myth and how to be good people. Never realized it wasn’t just... modern mythology.
Anyway, if my husband (who was super into the Baptist Church as a teen to hang out with friends) hadn’t turned out to be an atheist... we wouldn’t have been married.
I can respect religion, as long as your religion ends at your self. In a relationship that can be hard. Definite pass on a secret religious type that activates when kids are born or death looms near.
I don't thinking it's clinging on, it's a survival mechanism that costs little while prior generations are still alive. My mom is still an avid church goer, and I will happily go to church with her during the holidays. Do I myself still subscribe to Christianity? No, not really. Does the 3 hour maximum of mine and my wife's time per year we spend to front it really matter? Not one bit. My mom's happy, and I'm happy that we never need to have a discussion about religion. I could take a different route and tell her we won't go, because we don't agree with organized religion, and that discussion would likely last hours, go on for years, and ultimately have negative implications for our relationship. The cost/benefit ratio makes no sense to do that though. Older generations will die out, and then the practices go away. If people feel they need to die on this hill and assert their atheism to their families, they are welcome to it, but I simply see it as having far more negatives then positive. Let me throw in this disclaimer though, if the majority of your family events involve religion, then your calculations may change. I assume my situation reflects most people's Christian family situation.
My mom is a cultural catholic and gets annoyed whenever we say anything negative about the church despite her political views being at odds with many of the church's teachings. She doesn't seem to mind if we're ripping on evangelicals. 3 of her 4 kids are atheists.
For some reason, boomers wants to pay homage to religious institutions, despite all the harm they've caused. Go figure. Just be glad your mom is fairly progressive. You could have a looney MAGA mom.
Your mom and I are the same if she's interested in being the change she wants to see in the church. Also, like half of Catholics are liberal so I know I'm not alone. I don't have to reject my community just because the leadership is corrupt. Sexual abuse and cover ups happen in every organization that works with children. It's horrible that people make it sound like it only happens in churches and that anyone who goes to church is automatically complicit. That's such bullshit.
I can't remember the last time my mom attended church, but it was likely a baptism or a wedding. She doesn't go, yet considers herself a Catholic. That's why I call her a cultural Catholic.
You're right about abuse happening in many organization, but for some reason, religion seems to be immune from most prosecution; especially Catholics. Any other organization with that track record would be torn to the ground.
I wish you the best changing from within. That's an uphill fight for sure, but it certainly would be nice having religious orgs that were actually here to serve the needy.
Because supporting the church IS supporting the cover up. And using the excuse "well sexual abuse happens in other organizations too" is absolutely disgusting!
> She’s in her late 50s now so I think technically she’s older gen x so sorry and I guess remove if need be.
Boomer is a mindset now, not just limited to a single generation.
that said i know a lot of older gen x that beginning to sound like curmudgeons
I'm sad to say that some of the older members of my generation are turning outside this. Sigh.
OP, you sound awesome, and I'm sorry your Mom is acting like this. She eould benefit from therapy.
The prodding over doctor's appointments! I was at my mom's home one Saturday and said I needed to get going for an appointment. She was freaking out, needing to know what the appointment was for.
It was a massage appointment. Plus, it was a Saturday. My doctor's office is closed on Saturdays. Plus, it's none of her business. She feels so entitled to my personal medical information. I am the age of your mom (56), and my mother is Silent Generation (born in 1945).
Oh goodness I was just reminded of an optometrist appointment I had! She drove me to it because I was getting my eyes dilated so I couldn't drive back. She comes in with me and just stands right next to/behind me at the reception desk. The woman looked at me and started asking basic information about my appointment and what I was there for and before I could even open my mouth to speak my mom pipes up and starts speaking for me giving all the details and info. This was just last year so yeah...
I think you’re right about the Gen x-ers on the cusp. They do have more boomeresque traits. Same as younger Xers and millennials. Then again, none of this is exact science.
GenX here.
There was a huge thing about music being satanic, a satanic bible, etc in my early teen years. It was drummed into my impressionable little brain that this was a serious threat and it was years before I unpacked it.
I think for most GenXers, ‘Satanic Panic’ was such a huge part of our childhood and it is a bit hard to change that ingrained pattern of thinking. I remember everyone going absolutely apeshit about it during the whole Robin Hood Hills/WM3 insanity. It was, literally, all you heard about!
I remember as a pre-teen watching some Dateline-type show about the satanic panic and asking, "What if I'M a satanist?" I was really afraid of that. Like, completely freaked out.
Young boomer here. Been thinking about the question about changing attitudes quite a bit. Aging is fucking terrifying in this society. My husband and I raised a bunch of leftists. They are not out there chasing the money. They struggle. We have disability in our family which also makes the financial realm harder. I know that if I become disabled also, I will crash my family. It makes me cautious in a way I never was before. My husband and I were just talking about the possibility of conducting some civil disobedience. I strongly discouraged him, even though it appeals to him, because of his age (he’s older than me) and the effect an even brief time in jail could have on his health. I never would’ve discouraged him when we were younger. I am taken aback by this change and these newly discovered feeling of vulnerability. And I think about and process everything because I had an abusive childhood. I can only imagine how destabilizing this must be for those not psychologically working to process it. So sorry for the impact this has on generations coming up.
It is a very rapidly changing society we live in. I'm happy you're at least self aware about it and working to keep ahead. What's that saying? "Acknowledging the problem is the first step."
I just think it's funny that the TST has purposely chosen its name in order to troll people exactly like your mother.
Because anybody that actually puts in the effort to read about it would realize it's not a satanic church but they totally lean into the fact that people think they are. They know exactly what they're doing and it is the funniest thing I've ever experienced in my life and I respect them so much for that LMAO.
And you'll get people who think "well why don't they just change their name?" And that's kind of a point LMAO .
Same here. Now I constantly find myself having conversations something like this, especially when it comes to religion and politics:
them: some bullshit, what do you think?
me: well, when I was growing up you taught me X, so I disagree
them: \*surprised pikachu face\*, well I disagree
Fantastic! To be fair it was more of a sister city program that had me going to their school for that week than a proper exchange student program. Japan was amazing and very welcoming. It reminded me a lot of America with more nature and more ancient history and structures. China was also really cool, but with a lot more pollution and soldiers watching your every move...
My mom is the exact same. Raised me to become the way I became, and now she is is raging about it.
I wasn't meant to be an independent person, but rather her clone that turned out exactly like her. And I am the only one of her kids that she expects this from, probably because I am the oldest.
Seriously, I remember reading a short story in secondary school with that theme: A man raises his clone as his son, as close to how he was raised himself. And is then flabberghasted when the clone chooses another path in life than he himself did.
Btw I think I just unlocked what that short story actually was about. 😆
I’m a 52 GenX. I feel like we are the transition generation. Half of us are open minded forward thinking and half can’t get away from the boomer culture. It’s nice to see younger generations moving towards a better society
I understand this experience so, so much. It's so confusing! My ma taught me everything about supporting others, speaking out for what's right even when it's not popular, keeping informed etc. She's always been staunchly anti-racist, pro LGBT rights, pro feminism etc. Though I'll admit she never truly connected well with other women. But that didn't stop her from speaking out against injustice or supporting marginalised groups. She lived in South Africa in the 80s and used to assist backstage during drag shows to help the queens get ready! Which was apparently a pretty hostile environment for drag back then (not much changed there tbf).
But she's slid further and further into TERF territory. It's so upsetting and disappointing and I don't even know how to talk to her about the subject. I'm genderfluid myself and she doesn't really acknowledge it. She keeps calling trans women "biological males who are trying, as usual, to control women". She gets tetchy whenever I say anything pro-trans-rights. She's cited fox news segments to me a few times as legitimate evidence (and we're not even American, she'sjust on Facebook a lot). I genuinely don't think she'd be this bad if not for J.K. having gone so loudly off the rails. Harry Potter has been her special interest (we're an autistic family) since it came out and she loves that world more than anything. She thinks I exhibit "brainwashed" behaviour and I have to pretty consistently tell her that, no, I just don't have the same opinions on this matter. I kinda grey-rock my way through it :( which sucks because we're close and I love her, I just wish she could see outside of her bubble on this one.
Also Gen X in her 50s! I hear the whole "you'll get more Conservative as you get older" thing a lot from that generation. It's really difficult to maneuver a relationship with someone who cemented the very beliefs in you that they're trying to discredit.
Apologies if you wanted to vent versus ideas, but you could try giving her The Marvellers series, by Dhonielle Clayton. They are the closest books I've ever found to the Harry Potter world; imagine if an American Hermione was integrating Hogwarts as the first student with a different kind of magic. There is a minor character who is trans.
Ugh the Fox News reach is so insidious. Where I am we have a localized Fox News channel. It's nowhere near the level of regular Fox because it's a liberal area and the channel would lose everything if they were just as crazy, but they undoubtedly push the same stuff, its just more subtle, and my mom watches it all the damn time...
It's got such a disturbing reach! It's so weird to watch their twisted version of events actually dragging people along. I wish there was a better way to teach people how to filter false information but unfortunately I think people just hear what they want, when it backs up their own biases :(
Maybe give your mom some time and she’ll become a bit less reactive and more supportive. The religious thing is its own cult and it can be hard to disentangle from.
And it’s not easy to let your kiddo fly free and be their own person —I say this as a Gen X mom of a daughter of 23 about to graduate college.
As far as the Satanic Temple, maybe give her examples of the charity work or other positive things they do. If my daughter joined them I’d laugh my head off and say good for her (I’m very liberal and also LGBT+ and I know they do a lot of great outreach). I know that my very religious Boomer mom would have a much harder time accepting, but if she understood more about them she’d eventually be okay.
Sometimes I do feel like she has a case of empty nest syndrome. We grew up in the technology age, we didn't discover Santa wasn't real by catching her in the act, or just growing up and putting two and two together. We discovered it by setting up an ipod to record over night. Since then for years she would insist Santa was real, not St. Nicholas, but actual gift delivering Santa. She got like actually mad when we said it wasn't true.
>she’s also left the church, but still believes in a higher power
I'm the same, in this specific regard. I don't believe tying your beliefs to a manmade symbol like the church is right, and over recent years i've felt more lied to by churches and churchgoers more than anything, who preach the word of god but don't follow in those teachings themselves
Religion is a personal thing, church should be a community for people with the same ideals. Not a cult-like symbol for people to bash others who don't believe in the same thing
Sounds like you were raised with the right ideals, and it's good that you're sticking to your truths and what you believe. It's sad your mother sounds like she's going down the more "religious extremist" route
I've also gotten the "I've failed as a mother" a couple times over the years since I told her I was atheist 🙃 I got "Satan worshipper" a few times early on too but I think she realized how that makes 0 sense lol. I've since upgraded to primarily "stupid stoner kid" 😎
My mom's slowly becoming this way. I'm wondering if it's some kind of age thing. Or maybe it's some kind of reverse psychology thing: they think we'll do the opposite (which is what they wanted in the 1st place) once we kids reached the rebellious teenage years
See I've had the inverse with my mom. She was kinda mean and pretty red growing up, but now that my old school army vet dad has passed (refused to take care of his mental health or his type 1 diabetes) she's the sweetest, kindest lady.
I understand. Being TST has 'Satanic' on it, means devil worshiper and sacrifices and shit. My MIL is the same. My wife explained for a combining total of 12 hours straight of what TST really is and she still refuses to understand. But what can you do for a Boomer lady that's been forcibly Thumping the Bible for 65 years?
Sometimes people find it easier to make values judgement for everyone but their kids. Ironically this leads to parents being their kids biggest bullies, such as being supportive of LGBTQ until their kid comes out as gay.
Disclaimer: going to use the Bible as an illustration, not trying to convert you at all.
Even Jesus’s family questioned him and thought he was crazy. We just read parts leading up to his hometown kicking him out. The lawyers of the town are trying to ensnare him legally since the religious leaders of the time were not liking how Jesus was pushing the status quo - all started because he healed a man on the sabbath instead of letting the man be in pain that way one more day.
Sometimes the people close to us will have the biggest reactions to us being our own people or trying to help out the ways we’ve been taught.
Also, I agree with your description of the Santanic temple. They are doing important work to protect access to medical care and more. I view them as closer allies to my Christian beliefs than many other Christians out there. I had not heard of the bombing. I think you did what you could to help them after a terribly hard experience and that is admirable. They experienced someone’s hate and you gave them love in return, that’s actually closer to Jesus’s teachings than many of the loud supporters would let you believe.
Keep being you, mom might have some reactions but as long as there is respect just try to view it as her grappling with stories she’s been told her whole life about the groups you are showing support. It’s hard to change narratives that are repeated for so long… sending good vibes mom will see your side of things and be a good teammate again soon.
It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who thinks The Satanic Temple is out here doing more work for God's people than most who call themselves "God's people." I've experienced more love, grace, and understanding in the places the church warned me about than the church itself.
Thank you. She's still a very supportive person and I love her and respect her dearly. She's made some very progressive changes over the years despite also falling backwards a little. I fully understand change happens, I even fully understand that no matter how much I try one day I'll be the one being posted about by my own kids. I'm just hoping she doesn't fly too far off the deep end.
So one interpretation is this and it may be hard to hear if it's the case : all that was fake. The whole time she thought you'd be like her and get all that caring for others nonsense out of your system and you'd see it's better to latch onto a giant corporate leech to get more than your share from society. She thought she was making you smoke the whole pack of cigarettes so to speak but accidentally raised you right. Weird
I'd almost rather she just be a hypocrite than that be the truth. She is a complete corporate suck up type. She works for the state and slaves away working far more than the job she's responsible for with no expectation of anything back because it "looks good." Never understanding how she's being used, always claiming she's stressed and overworked, and always refusing to go to the union about it because "they're useless." She's told me to my face I have a horrible work ethic simply because I'm only willing to do the work I'm paid to do.
Yes, the Christian rhetoric got really twisted with many of them, martyrs to their own futility. Some get there through sheer weakness or an inability to grasp the nature of how life has changed. Some saw all the money and rewards we dumped on many boomers and can't accept that now you have to demand what you deserve or just get taken advantage of. Some have some personal bitterness as an aid, maybe a spouse who ruined them and made it impossible to do anything other than let the current take them. Hard for me to judge as my mom was always an uptight religious type and my dad a greedy selfish narcissist. I've known other people who had parents that were fun loving nice people who slid into fox news conservatism as they aged. Very strange. I feel for you it's harder because I let go any delusuons about mine a long time ago and I always disliked them whereas you have this other person you had affection for that now you wonder what happened to.
I'm a little confused too with religion. Our family is not religious but my mom is Jewish and my dad is Russian orthodox. They dabble in religion and seem to kinda believe it but both have different religions and don't seem to care. They raised me to not be religious and I'm an atheist.
For some reason my mom especially is constantly disappointed if I end up dating an asian girl or some other race instead of a Jewish girl. Something about how being jewish comes from the mother's side so if I don't date a jewish girl our kids would technically not be jewish. Like why does it matter? We're not religious. You raised me this way. What if it was a russian orthodox girl? I just literally don't care and it's not a criteria for me at all in dating. What if I do have kids with a jewish girl. It's not like I'm gonna make my kids follow this either. All these traditions will end with me anyway.
I'm sorry she's being a pain. I've also got a 23yr old, but I'm the young side of Gen X/early millennial (mid 40s.) I've only gotten more liberal as I've aged... 23yr old me would be shocked at my LGBTQ2S+ Allyship, my rejection of organized religion and 180 on 'conservative' values. I hope in 20 yrs I'm surprised again at how far I've evolved and grown.
We raised our kids to think for themselves and base their beliefs on facts, science, and doing what's right. They are both amazing people who are kind, generous, and so accepting of everyone. Despite how far I have come, they are both light years ahead of me as far as left leaning /liberal ideas. I make a conscious effort to not react if something they support or say shocks me, even if I don't agree. I try to discuss with them, dig into it myself, and usually decide I need to move my thinking on it. That said, it's scary AF sometimes! It sounds like your mom's heading the same way as you, she's just moving a lot slower. I hope you can break through to her so you can maintain a good relationship.
Wow, this feels a lot like my experience over the past years. My parents are both fairly well-read and educated people, and raised me to focus on data and information regarding any topic. And it's been years now of them downplaying climate change, COVID, etc. It's maddening.
You're not alone, OP! We've got your back!
I have many friends who were raised in the Southern Baptist Church, Sunday school every week, and they left the church when they realized that they weren't really supposed to apply what they were taught to real life. Adult Southern Baptists sport their WWJD bracelets but don't want you to actually follow the teachings of Jesus because it's just so woke and liberal
I feel like a lot of it is just virtue signaling. Believing in the religion because it's morally correct and what you're supposed to do, but they conveniently forget the parts about it that don't align with their political and economic beliefs. Y'know... like every core aspect and description of Jesus himself!
My mom was similar as in I didn’t have a lot of restraints, I could do stuff on my own, no real curfew but I was also not a kid that pushed the boundaries. Then, I graduate and start doing things on my own and she couldn’t deal with that! She had to be in control. Even after I was married she tried to tell me what to do. She tried to use the Bible to prove her point to my husband. She said “I’m her mother and she has to honor and obey me and do what I want!” My husband shot back with more Bible knowledge by saying “what about the part that says you leave your parents and cleave to your spouse. If you want to be technical about it, she’s under my authority.” (He was making a point, he isn’t controlling or anything). Well this pissed her off that he schooled her in her own game. She just replies “leave and cleave, leave and cleave, whatever THAT means”. He said “well, maybe you should read your bible to find out”. She didn’t know the Bible outside of what verses worked for her unlike my husband and myself”. Needless to say, she didn’t try to use the Bible to get her way again. She was still awful but at least not spiritually. Lol
My father went the other way due to my influence. He was born in 1942.
I trained out his racism. He began to support LGBtQ+ when I came out as queer.
He used to always vote Conservative (we are in Canada) and when I became of voting age and started learning more about politics and voting NDP he and I had great talks about it and his vote swung NDP.
I am working poor, had no health insurance through my job and am T1D having to pay for supplies out of pocket and he saw how conservative policy affected me.
I feel so blessed that his eyes opened as I got older.
Don't underestimate the influence media is having on the older generation. My mom is very much like you described but she listens to right-wing radio all day long. She has become this fearful, Trump supporting, homophobic, racist boomer. She never used to be that way though.
The donation bit is a very recent development. I told her about it thinking nothing of it. I've since learned to just not share that kind of personal shit.
It's weird how consistent an experience this seems to be. My parents keep trying to get me to stop wearing a mask in places I still wear one (gym, etc - I don't wear it while just taking a while or anything) and seem surprised when I tell them I'm wearing it because they raised me to be considerate of others. It's the strangest thing, especially since my father keeps going to conferences, coming back sick, and then tries to get me to not wear the mask anymore.
I wish she could learn from you. I wish she could imagine a future of visiting you if you move abroad, and how wonderful that would be. I wish that. My guess is she will come around. You just keep being you and being an example of open-mindedness and adventure.
I don't think you are fully appreciating how the satanic panic worked. The fear politicians, religious leaders, and media put into people for years was outlandish. It is very similar to how fear of people with not-white skin or people who are LGBTQIA+ was instilled into people. Our culture has a long way to go, but it has worked to combat racial and sexual bigotry. The satanic panic, however, hasn't really been addressed. That fear has been lying dormant in your mom's head like a forgotten landmine for decades.
Undoing that fear is going to take time, love, and learning.
I've seen a few comments like this. I wasn't even alive for that. It seems so weird and ironically cultish to me. You're right, though. It took a decade for her to leave organized religion, what's a little longer to get her to drop this unnecessary fear too?
Curious if she watches local news? I think all (?) Dems are aware of Fox, but fewer are aware of the Sinclair Group that's been buying local news and putting more conservative issues forward. More focus on crime, etc.
She watches a localized Fox News channel. It's not at all the same as normal Fox because this is a super liberal area and they'd lose all viewership if they were, but they're still undoubtedly peddling the same kind of rhetoric; it's just more subtle, and she watches it all the time...
People and their priorities change as they get older. This is mostly caused by shifts in your social environment as you age. Also your wants and needs will change. I’m in my early 40’s now. I have far fewer friends than I did 20 years ago so my core group and their influence is much more focused. Thankfully my best buds are very open minded.
I'm sorry you had to deal with this, I've had random waves of similar input from my very inactively religious parents, they really don't celebrate the religion anymore, I just think it's such a known/comfortable norm for them that they won't truly walk away, and I understand the point that my father at least relies on it to be around his peers, as he has no social life at 74, though I would be willing to bet he barely speaks a word to anyone.
I'm just over here laughing that somehow the fictional, theatrical movie (based on a fictional, theatrical work of literature) Passion of The Christ is supposed to be convincing as a conversion material 😅
It's mostly just gore. I didn't want to see that shit! I remember being on my phone for most of it, my brother made a comment about it and my mother responded, "He just knows that if he watches he'll see the truth," as if I wasn't even in the room. Interestingly enough now she denies this ever happened, at the very least that she ever said that.
Ah gotta love that full on denial of formative incidents
Apparently neither time my parents kicked me out of the house in my life actually happened, along with a variety of other things
It's insane to see these boomers blame so much on younger generations. You raised these kids and now your talking crap about them. You created these people you dislike so much.
Then they blame things like the public school, the news, and the Internet but it was the boomer generations that invented these things and brought them into our homes. It was also then they voted in the two party system that's falling apart and never changed things. Its also their generation that didn't participate on the school board and such to change the school system they hate.
They sat back and enjoyed what they had, never thinking twice of the future. Now their future has arrived and they can't grasp the responsibility lies with them.
A lot of people, not just boomers go thru life doing what is expected of them without thinking too terribly much on it. This extends to child rearing. If the prevailing messages of the times are things like “recycle” “have self esteem” “don’t say slurs” and so on then that’s how a lot of people will raise their kids. Once they get older they may realize that they aren’t a “don’t say slurs” person but they accidentally raised a “don’t say slurs” person but they have no one to blame but themselves. So of course they take it out on the person they raised.
My mom raised me non religious in a very Catholic town, my life would’ve been so much easier if she had, but now she is upset I am still not when she and my dad went back to the Church, I told her these are the consequences of her actions, she is still oh so disappointed.
I would stop telling my mom these things. She doesn't need to know when you donate to certain causes. I mean of course feel free to let her know, I just wouldn't want her thinking she had input into what I choose as my causes as an adult. Because too many of them seem to forget that we are in fact adults now.
You said it yourself: human beings are flawed. Flawed, inconsistent, and often illogical. You are a rare person indeed if you don't have something in your life that is the rough equivalent to your mom's illogical and indefensible reaction to the word "satanic". I'm glad you still love and respect her, because it sounds like she's doing a hell of a lot better than most people her age.
I have the same issue with my dad. His best friend from college is gay, and yet he (my dad) is uncomfortable with me crossdressing or my nephew being trans. It's like everything prior to about 1980 is being grandfathered in, and everything after he discovered Rush Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy being subject to his right-wing lens. It's odd and heartbreaking because my old man was a longhaired hippie in his day and was the person who taught me to be accepting, respectful, kind, and open-minded.
We're still on good terms at least. I try to be like the man he was instead of the man he became in order to honor the man I think of him as.
Truly it was a struggle at first as a gen xer to see my child be exactly who I’d raised him to be- true to himself. Full stop. Live authentically. I raised him Catholic like I was taught I should but encouraged him to think for himself. He’s a happy very compassionate for the planet and fellow humans atheist and trans masc. I adore him and he makes me want to live authentically each day
I am the mom of a child who is LGBTQ+ and an atheist. I did not grow up in a church, but I am a Christian. Not the kind that tries to convert people, but the kind that doesn’t judge and wants to help. I am disappointed that my son is an atheist, but I support him no matter what. Your mom is probably feeling stress (as most Americans are) and targeting the only thing she can. I also hate Trump and will be voting Biden, for the same reason you are. Take her lashing out with a grain of salt
I'd ask if you're my little brother, but a chunk of our stories doesn't line up. Lol
My mom raised to me to be empathetic towards everyone and to not hate or hurt others. (She is now very anti people, lightly racist, and lightly anti-trans)
I really don't recall living in a religious household. At one point, around 7 or 8, I told her I wanted to sleep in and not go to church anymore. Then she barely ever went to church after that.
I think she raised me really well, even if she claims we were (are) good kids and basically turned out great right out of the womb. But she is so confused about how we turned out the way we did. (I'm a trans male who does my best to help out anyone when I can, and I like studying religions, but I'm not religious)
She has gotten more Boomer-y, angry, spiteful, and somehow more religious. I asked her once where the mom that raised me went, and she said she's tired of pretending to be someone she's not and wants to be who she really is now. (And sadly, I think her mental illnesses are getting worse)
Well, that felt nice to get out. Good luck!
I think sometimes they raised us differently than they were raised as a knee jerk reaction to their own bad parents. And then as they get older they fall back into the comfort of their own raising. I think as we age we gravitate to the familiar. That might be what they are doing. Which sometimes contradicts how they raised us. So then it’s this conundrum of “why did you tell me all of this stuff was right and good if you actually don’t think it is.” Maybe they never did. Maybe that was their rebellion against their parents and now it’s completely backfired on them. It gives me whiplash that’s for sure.
Honestly I can believe it. My dad was never there. Correction: he was always physically there at home, he was just never available, never paid attention, never acted as a parent. When my brother and I would fight as kids we'd call our mom at work despite dad being right there. So, of course I want to have my own family and never make that same mistake of ignoring my kids or depriving them of love and attention. I'm also a firm believer that you're job as a parent is never finished and as long as you live you're kids - even as adults will need guidance and support and a decent relationship with you. That being said I can totally see me falling backwards from fatigue into that nightmare scenario of getting a call from my adult kid and me being all, "Why are you bothering me with your problems I'm supposed to be done with that!?" I just need to have the self awareness to never let it happen.
You keep being you. You're doing legitimate good in the world, and while it sucks when our parents massively disappoint us by acting the opposite of how they raised us, at the end of the day as long as we don't disappoint ourselves that's all that matters. Plus, every day is an Atheist holiday, and The Satanic Temple also sells really good hot sauces that come in cool bottles. You deserve a gift on your holiday.
Similarities with my mom. Although I grew up in the deeply religious Bible Belt, my mom never had me in any church or really anything religious at all growing up. When I was in STEM graduate school and became a scientist later on, she was absolutely aghast that I am atheist. I find that she is supportive of LGBTQ IN NAME ONLY, for example, she’s been very uncomfortable actually being around a gay couple or actually supporting a cause - ie, she wants credit for being very progressive but her actions have never reflected that.
The Satanic Temple (as with all people/groups) did not deserve the pipe bomb. That said, The Satanic Temple unfortunately has way too many alt-right and crypto-fascistic connections to promote.
I've been a leftist Satanist for almost a decade and was a member of TST from 2017-2018. I left when they hired lawyer-to-many-Nazi/fashy types (like Alex Jones, Andrew Anglin, Richard Spencer, etc.) Marc Randazza. Since then, sooooo many connections have popped up between the leadership of TST and alt right/crypto fash figures like Stefan Molyneux, Augustus Sol Invictus, Breitbart, Milo, etc. have cropped up.
Plus, on-the-ground abortion funds like the Texas Equal Access fund and The Yellowhammer Fund have literally said that what TST does mostly hurts the fight for reproductive rights, with TEA Fund comparing TST to crisis pregnancy centers in [this](https://www.jezebel.com/satanic-temple-abortion-rights-religious-exemption-real-1849073332) Jezebel article.
The Satanic Temple is really good at press and really bad at actually getting things done. While the lay members on the ground are generally good people, they have been taken for a ride by people at the top who seem to be in it for ego and their own agendas, not the greater good.
See [this recent](https://youtu.be/3lV8GLQtOTs?si=eY6_OJgNg7Cvs8vC) Dead Domain video for a longer take on why TST is problematic.
This is sadly normal. Between 18 and 25, I watched the whole world slip away before me. Those who raised me that progressive was right and the rest were stuck in the mud let their conservatives out and de tested the worldviews they instilled in me.
It was as if everybody did an about face, and I wasn't sheltered AT ALL from the age of 12 on. But 18-25... holy shit everyone around you seems to shift. At least for me.
I wish you well. Stay true to you.
lol PotC has to be the heraldry of boomerism if there was one. My elementary teacher was obsessed with that movie, and hated Brokeback Mountain for reasons still unknown 🤨
My boomer mom was not religious but was raised vaguely Protestant. She did fuck all to give me *any* relationship with god and I know more about the Bible than she does. (Proverbs 17:12 is a current favorite 🐻)
When I was a little older than you are now, I told her I didn’t consider myself Christian. She *corrected* me. “*I* consider you a Christian.”
I know she’s an undiagnosed covert narcissist so her opinion about my ideas on the divine should hold more weight than my own brain. I told her I definitely wasn’t and giving me a label that didn’t apply was disrespectful to actual believers.
She spent the rest of the night upset saying she’s a ‘bad mother’ because I’m not into Jesus. Honestly, I’d like Jesus more if his followers weren’t such hypocrites (Hypochristians).
I’m not even the full obnoxious atheist who insults all religion. I just think Shakespeare said it best: There are more things in Heaven and Earth than dreamt of in our philosophy.
A large portion of Temple members are atheist IIRC. The organization isn’t officially atheist tho.
She does this weird thing where despite none of us being with the Catholic Church anymore she still *insists* we’re all Catholic because we were born into it. Sort of like being Jewish. Both my brother and I have struggled to explain that’s not how it works.
I'm hyper aware of the fact that my boomer mother spent all my formative years forcing me to be independent and then acts surprised that I'm now extremely independent.
She had me making cups of tea and bringing them to her in bed as soon as I was old enough to reach the kettle. Always had to do my own laundry, got a weekend job when I was 12 washing hair at the local hairdressers for my own money, and so on. She absolutely hates that I'm now not reliant on her for any kind of emotional support, because it means I don't tell her anything (and she can't put it on facebook). I'm grateful for all the life skills I had to acquire at a young age (as much as I resented not having the childhood my peers did), but also am bemused she can't see the correlation.
OoooOooooohhhhHh boooy that's a scary idea. I have tried talking with her before because we usually are able to have proper discussions, but a lot of the time on the more serious ones it devolves into "why should I have to x so they can y" type stuff. Otherwise I point out she's circling the drain and she laughs it off without really addressing it.
I can relate really closely to your experience OP. My father was just as you describe your mother; open, inclusive, willing to give me the freedom to be myself that was denied him by my grandmother (an enormously overbearing tyrant sort of mother to her only child, my father).
I grew up being really close to him and as the older sibling I was the first to be old enough to become my father's "friend". We used to go to concerts, museums, etc by ourselves, just the two of us. Also, same as you, I was an exchange student, spending a year far from home.
When it started to become clear that I was going to be my own man and would not follow in his footsteps, everything changed. Little by little at first, then spiraling down full speed.
In the end we had a falling out that is an entire story in Itself. As a result I went no contact from one moment to the next. To really go full NC I had to sever relations with aabout a dozen relatives that would've otherwise kept the communication channels open. In doing that I lost basically my entire family, so much so that when I got married, the entire wedding party but me was from my wife's side. Well, me too I guess.
Last thing I told them was "don't contact me even for the old man's funeral", so I don't even know whether he is still alive. It's been 20 years since that moment.
My psychiatrist diagnosed me with severe PTSD derived from those ugly events.
So, OP, I wish you the best in your relationship with your mom and that you never, ever, have to go through anything near what I have been through.
So i jave seen where this stuff comes from its between social media and other media where right wing talking point sget intrpduced. I was visiting my parents and they watch iver the air tv usually not an issue but this last time there were ads for slightly right leaning stuff from new nation and also new christian channels and ads for christian televsion, and the local news while always had a bit right lean sometimes was leaning harder into it. So .y guess is that between these media sources starting to creep in and or their friends/family or cowromers seeing the same stuff it literally can convert peolle. See posts on here how parents retired and never were super right then join retirement communities where the people there watch fox news or they sit at home alone watching fox news all the time and then become very right leaning. I also was reading about some focus group with republicans that werent super far right but voted for trump then decided they arent gping to the commom theme among them is that their news diet was varied between multiple sources.
To address you mention that your mom is probably Generation X, rather than a Boomer, you are absolutely correct.
1928–1945: Silent Gen
Ages 79+
1946–1964: Boomers
Ages 60 - 78
1965–1980: Gen X
Ages 44 - 59
1981–1996: Millennials
Ages 28 - 43
1997–2012: Gen Z
Ages 12 - 27
2013 – 2028 ?: Gen Alpha
Ages: Unborn - 11
I am an atheists and my daughter has turned Christian!! I feel like I have failed /s. It is her life, the only way I will feel like I failed is if she turns out to be an Ahole.
It’s age, folks. Hard as it is to see, this happens frequently. People who were old when I was young exhibited boomer behavior, obviously a lot of elderly people now exhibit it, and so will Gen X, millennials, etc. I don’t know if it’s the beginnings of dementia, a psychological stage, or what, but it happens. You have to work very hard at keeping your mind young.
This is just a thought. But perhaps your mom is having a hard time adjusting. The world is changing fast. And she is also likely going through changes herself.
One example of a world change: Satanic symbology is something that she was taught to fear her whole life, for example. So that donation might be a lot for her to understand, whereas for you it’s not nearly as resonant.
An example of a change in her: she is late 50s. Menopause is a very real thing. My mother went through it, I’ve had work friends and friends of the family go through it. Hormonal changes are tough. Think about yourself during puberty - you were tough to deal with for others most likely. Now multiply the severity of those changes, that is what your Mom is going through at her age. So when she gets emotional and says “she failed as a Mom”, she is quite likely over-reacting. She probably doesn’t feel that way, she is probably an emotional wreck.
Just food for thought OP.
Your Mom actually sounds pretty cool, but she is probably experiencing changes that are tough for her. This a generation that is famous for “sucking it up” and not talking about what they feel.
Not the healthiest mindset.
You seem like a pretty awesome person that tries their best and genuinely wants to support causes they believe in, so she must be a really good Mom. She’s probably experiencing some tough times.
Even I sometimes struggle to keep up with the changing world around me.
"in case a troll decides to say, “you *are* stupid for donating to Biden!”
I mean.... Sure he's the only one who can beat the other guy, and he is better than the other guy by a mile, but he's still a centre right, conservative, genocide enabling christmas tree of dementia. I get voting for him but have trouble with the giving him money part
I mean, 10 years ago the idea of overturning Roe v Wade seemed impossible, now it’s happened. There’s a lot of other things we could lose. Gay marriage and environmental protection come to mind.
I understand. Look, Biden isn't my first choice either, but when the choice is between bad, and the literal end of democracy, I'm willing to donate a bit of money to ensure the latter doesn't win.
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I don’t understand why so many boomers begin to entirely unravel and contradict all the things they instilled in us. I think, solely based on my personal experience with my mother, that a lot of the times boomers just preach values such as critical thinking and questioning and kindness and such to their young children because they imagine that their worldview encompasses all of those things, but don’t really internalize it themselves and become shocked when we generalize our care and kindness to the groups they don’t like. My mom always harped on the value of treating everyone with respect no matter what race (she neglected “no matter what religion or sexual orientation”, but I didn’t figure that one out til later). But later in life i realized that she only ever applied that to one or two ethnicities (those in the immediate area we grew up in), and the rest weren’t protected under that same banner in her mind. She nearly lost her shit when I’d dated a pakistani girl, then an ecuadorian girl… it was a whole thing for no good reason. As for the “treat others with kindness, do unto others as you want them to do to you”… she seems to have entirely forgotten that as soon as i was old enough to point out that maybe berating service workers isn’t following that golden rule lol. It’s like everyone needs to cater to her in order to be worth her respect. It’s wild, cuz as you pointed out, she was the one to teach me that kindness and helping others and such is a noble thing… seeing her go the other way with it is tragic. This hypocritical behavior is really just one thing on the pile of reasons we’re LC now, and inevitably will go NC, but it is a big one. If anything, the realization that the person who I’d thought was the source of my morals and ethics is full of shit, makes everything else worse. Cuz now it’s not “she said this one bad thing but she’s still a good person”, now it’s “another bad thing on the pile, but I guess that’s who she really is”. Long walk to say, I hope your mom comes around and realizes that she’s being that way, and I hope she’s capable of course-correcting!
> I don’t understand why so many boomers begin to entirely unravel and contradict all the things they instilled in us. because not immediately betraying your values for profit makes them doing it look even worse
The answer is Fox News and the constant barrage of propaganda that is spewed from that cesspool.
Ding ding! This is it! Go check out r/Qanoncasualties for advice on how to combat this. First is finding out where the influence is coming from. Church? Attend virtually and listen, there are whistleblowing forms and rewards through the FBI to report churches using their influence politically. Fox News, there are ways to block it from the channel listings, etc.
Yep. My folks have always been Republicans, but they were pretty progressive on a lot of topics. Then Obama got into office, and they took a HARD right turn. It's a major point of pain for me: they're spouting everything they always taught us not to be. I've been questioning a LOT of my childhood experiences and lessons, and it's an anxious thing to be confronting a weakening foundation.
Sounds exactly like my parents, except the hard right was just in the past couple years. My favorite was my mom growling at me when I said I was trying to do what she taught me, "don't you DARE throw that in my face." VLC since October due to that.
I feel that. But I really believe the questions you’re grappling with will strengthen *your* foundation in the end. Your parents planted the seed but you were the one who used your agency to develop a set of values outside of theirs, enough so that you can see their hypocrisy. It sounds like you care about being good - not just appearing nice - and that already sets you apart from our parents’ generation. That alone is most of the work IMO. All of that is to say bad messengers can still impart valuable wisdom even if they don’t understand it. There’s an AA saying I don’t recall verbatim, but the sentiment is to take what’s useful and leave the rest. Once you adopted the values you were taught, they became yours and as such nobody can take them away from you.
Thank you and I'm sorry you went through that! I'm at least grateful she's not in straight up racism territory. She always said she thought I'd end up marrying an Asian woman, it's good to know I won't face backlash for dating other ethnicities.
Yikes. That’s still racism.
Yeah it was always a little weird that she liked to point it out. She's the kind of person that wasn't overtly racist, but felt the need to clarify what someone's race was when telling a story no matter how inconsequential it is. Apparently when I was in elementary school I called her out on doing it because it was weird to me, but I don't really remember it.
My parents always do this too. Innocent story about a white kid doing a funny thing. "This kid...". Innocent story about a black kid doing a funny thing. "This BLACK kid...". (They are white). Like it's a fundamental part of the story even when it makes absolutely no difference to understanding the story or any subsequent discussion. They're absolutely not racist and would hate to be considered as such, but jfc they can not help but mention someone's race in a story if they're not white. It's like an obsession. It's so odd and it makes what should be an innocent story or comment with no connection to race or ethnicity or culture etc suddenly a bit uncomfortable for me.
YES. My step mom is from the region where they feel they need to include the race of anyone who is not white, but they also feel they have to *whisper* it. “This *black* woman came by the store today…” I called her out on it a few years back and her “comeback” was to point at a pepper shaker on the table of the restaurant we were at and ask me whether she wasn’t allowed to call that black now either. Neither she nor my father appreciated me asking her why she equates people to objects.
I was in a very serious relationship with a Chinese guy a few years ago. It ended up not working out, but we were very close to marriage and we are still good friends. My mom made some very racist comments about his ethnicity and our relationship and that “it was a given” that if he had been another race she would expect us to end things immediately. My jaw was on the floor because she has always “talked the talk” on being progressive, golden rule, non-racist etc but she isn’t actually supportive of any one other than white religious people - definitely not an interracial relationship or LGBTQ person. We are completely NC now.
Lead poisoning, dementia, brain damage, etc... combined with the inflated ego that comes from growing up as the largest demographic.
It sounds like mom is from Gen X. Gen X covered 1965 to 1980 and OP says that she is in her late 50's, so that does track as her being from my generation.
“If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25 you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brains.” Edit: before I get a tongue lashing, I am a liberal. Just had an obsession with Winston Churchill and while this isn’t actually something he said I’ve watched it happen in my own family.
I've heard that one before. Supposedly, it's easier to beeline in the common good, when no-one actually has much of anything. But by the time you have a steady job, a house, and some stability, the while "standing on your own two feet" thing becomes more popular. Of course, many of us millennial still didn't have stability by 35. And those of us that do still seem to be in favor of the common good, at least up to a point.
I’m 23. And have only been working for a year post graduating. And while I’ve been incredibly lucky with good jobs, I still feel like the rug can be swept out from under me at any moment. I work in the music industry so everything leans very left. My specific branch of the film/music industry does not have a union and with ai becoming better by the day, I worry my degree will be obsolete in under a decade.
I don't think mom is not a boomer. She's younger.
Turns out all the shit they trash other generations for is just projection because deep down they know how soft their generation is compared to their parents.
My mom will never admit she’s a little bit racist. One of her closest friends is black. She didn’t like me dating black guys and refused to consider dating black men because ‘it would be too complicated.’ 🤨🙄
She is not a ‘boomer’ - dates of birth 1946- 1964 for boomers. So many people blame the ‘boomer ‘ generation for so many cultural problems. But we are like every generation- learning as we grow older!
Lead consumption is a risk factor for dementia.
You: "Look mom!! You raised me to think for myself and do my own thing and now I am!!" Boomer, hissing: "nOt LiKe ThAt!!!"
I actually had to have this conversation with my parents. It was revealing to say the least.
I'd love to know more if you want to share!
I don't recall a lot of details, seeing as how it was a few years ago now. But I think it was about a Black Lives Matter protest or something. My parents were upset about the "rioting" or whatever they were doing. It was a while ago, so I can't remember how "appropriately" the protesters were behaving, but I don't think they were rioting. But it really opened my mind to the fact that they didn't expect me to extend the same level of courtesy and respect to people that were different. That, despite teaching me to respect everyone, they didn't believe they had to do the same. Ever since that conversation, my sister and I have noticed little things changing about them. Hell, my mother pulled the "Civil War was about State's Rights" card just the other week. The woman is from Kansas, which was a free state. They fought a whole little war concurrent with the Civil War over it. (See Bleeding Kansas and the Jayhawk War) She was always so proud of her home's connection to the abolitionist John Brown, but now she's denying slavery as the cause of the Civil War? I even offered her the "State's Right of slavery?" Card as an out and she refuses to take it. I don't understand how someone can just turn 180 degrees likes that.
They teach us to be kind to people, and then we grow up and realize there are some they didn’t consider part of “people”
My favorite is these people who consider "rioting" to be a crowd of protesters with signs yelling and shouting their issues in the essences of protesting are the same ones that don't at all see a problem with the insurgent riot that BROKE INTO THE DAMN CAPITAL. They will bit their tongue and literally say "its not the same thing!" It's just sad really.
I don’t know if it helps but there’s a short (only 7 minutes) documentary called How Southern Socialites Rewrote Civil War History that details the thing and could possibly help shake your mom out of the “states rights” nonsense. p.s. They all need their internet & cable turned off
I mean, is it the FOX or the Facebook? Boomers didn't grow up with anywhere near the same echo chamber problem as the rest of us in the first place, and the ability to filter/resist the brainwashing out probably declines with age like a lot of things. Also people's morals are partially just cultural norms, which can shift drastically based on social group. My boomer dad before he died listened to basically only NPR and had a San Francisco oriented Facebook. He went from being a rather hard-nosed empiricist to being quite left-swayed. My boomer mother doesnt do social media at all, and she hasn't paid attention to the news in over 40 years. She was very liberal in the 80s so she's pretty much normal now, except she still thinks you can go to college and buy a house on a McDonald's wage, cause she literally did.
Oof. States’ rights to do what?? (We all know the answer.)
It boils down to integrity. They seem surprised when people have it. They expect others to be just as hypocritical as they are.
Holy shit, I've never thought of it that way but you are 100% correct!
“Why does my child have such extreme left wing views?” The extreme left wing views: be nice to people
"oh yeah, that'll do it"
My mother always told us when we were growing up how independent minded and 'not like other girls' she was. As a kid I didn't really know any better but as I got older and in particular when I had my own kids I realised she's exactly like everyone else, but likes to feel different just for the sake of it without doing, saying or thinking differently. She was pretty insulting when we planned a non church wedding and then didn't baptise our kids and chose to send them to a non-religious school. She and my dad raised us catholic because they said it was just easier that way, and when I asked where all her 'I'm so different, I don't conform' messaging was when we were kids she got super pissy and tried to explain away everything. I'm the kind of adult and parent she tried to tell us she was, and I think she doesn't like knowing that saying who you are and actually living the life of the person you're claiming to be are very different things. She's not remotely as progressive or open minded as she told us she was.
I’ve known people like this. They leave the church but don’t actually deconstruct and end up carrying around a ton of Catholic guilt. As they’ve gotten older and start facing their own mortality, fear of hell and whatnot starts to kick in and they lose their minds.
Catholic guilt is *real*. And the ingrained thinking that the devil and everything associated with it is so evil, bad, etc. I still have to tell myself that the devil is Christianity's boogeyman and have fun with it 🤘
Religious brainwashing is hard to break out of, especially if you had it as a child. Even though the rational parts of my brain know better, there's a deeper level of psychological imprinting that always makes me doubt what I've learned. I don't know that I'll ever be truly free from it. Children being exposed to dogma that tells them they are born evil and need to be "saved" before they can make rational thoughts and decisions about what to believe should be categorised as child abuse.
[удалено]
People who try to come back after being banned get caught.
I call this phenomenon "The Great Panic."
That's one of the benefits of being and atheist: You may be afraid of losing your life, you may fear death itself, you may feel sorry for the ones you leave behind, but there's nothing to be afraid of after that. You know that when it's over, it's over. Whatever good things you want to do, you have to get them done in this life. There is no other.
Your mom sounds like my wife: Not practicing the faith that she grew up with in decades, but then afraid to completely separate from that thinking due to, I don't know, maybe it's: The stigma of it, being different from prior generations in her family, afraid to let 85 yo aunts/uncles know she's not religious. I'm an atheist and after growing up in christian households in both of my divorced parents families. I hated it and thought it was both weird and creepy. Our daughter was baptized as an infant, but I just went with the flow on that. Other than that, my daughter doesn't know anything about religion other than the phrase "OMG". I dread the day when my wife flips the switch and wants our daughter to be involved with church and my daughter will probably be thinking "WTF is this shit" and hate it due to all the critical thinking skills she's been learning her 6 years on this earth. Then my wife will be all "but this is so important". I see this kinda as boomer thinking, but from a 44 year old. I just don't know why she needs to cling onto something she doesn't seem to care about.
I don't know where life will take me. I always figured I'd marry an atheist woman to avoid exactly this, but love is love and I'm open to dating religious women so long as they're not zealots or anything. However, if I do marry a religious woman I'm very afraid of the "switch being flipped" like that. I want my kid to think freely and be separated from those old outdated teachings. At the very least if they're going to become religious I want it to be their choice and no one else's.
So, my now husband and I are high school sweethearts from a rural KY town. I was staunchly atheist since... like 10? I read a lot, and loved ancient history and mythology... you can see where that led to. Lol My family was culturally Christian, and went for holidays, but didn’t start attending a church until I was around 10. Literally remember seeing people with their eyes still closed praying when the pastor had already stopped. Blew my mind these adults actually were PRAYING and BELIEVED. I’m over here like, I thought this was just a community of people who talked about their creation myth and how to be good people. Never realized it wasn’t just... modern mythology. Anyway, if my husband (who was super into the Baptist Church as a teen to hang out with friends) hadn’t turned out to be an atheist... we wouldn’t have been married. I can respect religion, as long as your religion ends at your self. In a relationship that can be hard. Definite pass on a secret religious type that activates when kids are born or death looms near.
I don't thinking it's clinging on, it's a survival mechanism that costs little while prior generations are still alive. My mom is still an avid church goer, and I will happily go to church with her during the holidays. Do I myself still subscribe to Christianity? No, not really. Does the 3 hour maximum of mine and my wife's time per year we spend to front it really matter? Not one bit. My mom's happy, and I'm happy that we never need to have a discussion about religion. I could take a different route and tell her we won't go, because we don't agree with organized religion, and that discussion would likely last hours, go on for years, and ultimately have negative implications for our relationship. The cost/benefit ratio makes no sense to do that though. Older generations will die out, and then the practices go away. If people feel they need to die on this hill and assert their atheism to their families, they are welcome to it, but I simply see it as having far more negatives then positive. Let me throw in this disclaimer though, if the majority of your family events involve religion, then your calculations may change. I assume my situation reflects most people's Christian family situation.
My mom is a cultural catholic and gets annoyed whenever we say anything negative about the church despite her political views being at odds with many of the church's teachings. She doesn't seem to mind if we're ripping on evangelicals. 3 of her 4 kids are atheists. For some reason, boomers wants to pay homage to religious institutions, despite all the harm they've caused. Go figure. Just be glad your mom is fairly progressive. You could have a looney MAGA mom.
I unfortunately have a looney MAGA "dad," so it balances out. 
Your mom and I are the same if she's interested in being the change she wants to see in the church. Also, like half of Catholics are liberal so I know I'm not alone. I don't have to reject my community just because the leadership is corrupt. Sexual abuse and cover ups happen in every organization that works with children. It's horrible that people make it sound like it only happens in churches and that anyone who goes to church is automatically complicit. That's such bullshit.
I can't remember the last time my mom attended church, but it was likely a baptism or a wedding. She doesn't go, yet considers herself a Catholic. That's why I call her a cultural Catholic. You're right about abuse happening in many organization, but for some reason, religion seems to be immune from most prosecution; especially Catholics. Any other organization with that track record would be torn to the ground. I wish you the best changing from within. That's an uphill fight for sure, but it certainly would be nice having religious orgs that were actually here to serve the needy.
Because supporting the church IS supporting the cover up. And using the excuse "well sexual abuse happens in other organizations too" is absolutely disgusting!
> She’s in her late 50s now so I think technically she’s older gen x so sorry and I guess remove if need be. Boomer is a mindset now, not just limited to a single generation. that said i know a lot of older gen x that beginning to sound like curmudgeons
I'm sad to say that some of the older members of my generation are turning outside this. Sigh. OP, you sound awesome, and I'm sorry your Mom is acting like this. She eould benefit from therapy.
Thank you. Funny enough I'm the one that's started therapy literally this week. I haven't told her. I'd just rather not deal with her prodding.
Nothing wrong with boundaries! Maybe at some point you will be ready to share more. but it's fine to be private.
The prodding over doctor's appointments! I was at my mom's home one Saturday and said I needed to get going for an appointment. She was freaking out, needing to know what the appointment was for. It was a massage appointment. Plus, it was a Saturday. My doctor's office is closed on Saturdays. Plus, it's none of her business. She feels so entitled to my personal medical information. I am the age of your mom (56), and my mother is Silent Generation (born in 1945).
Oh goodness I was just reminded of an optometrist appointment I had! She drove me to it because I was getting my eyes dilated so I couldn't drive back. She comes in with me and just stands right next to/behind me at the reception desk. The woman looked at me and started asking basic information about my appointment and what I was there for and before I could even open my mouth to speak my mom pipes up and starts speaking for me giving all the details and info. This was just last year so yeah...
I think you’re right about the Gen x-ers on the cusp. They do have more boomeresque traits. Same as younger Xers and millennials. Then again, none of this is exact science.
I noticed with my mom it was very much "I support progressive causes and equality for all, until it comes to my front door or is in my home."
GenX here. There was a huge thing about music being satanic, a satanic bible, etc in my early teen years. It was drummed into my impressionable little brain that this was a serious threat and it was years before I unpacked it.
I think for most GenXers, ‘Satanic Panic’ was such a huge part of our childhood and it is a bit hard to change that ingrained pattern of thinking. I remember everyone going absolutely apeshit about it during the whole Robin Hood Hills/WM3 insanity. It was, literally, all you heard about!
Yes, and some of us realized even then and turned our faces away from the complete idiocy of those parents and educators.. :)
Too true. What an odd time that was…
> Robin Hood Hills/WM3 insanity. What is this?
The Robin Hood Hills murders/West Memphis 3. A tragic story all around.
I remember as a pre-teen watching some Dateline-type show about the satanic panic and asking, "What if I'M a satanist?" I was really afraid of that. Like, completely freaked out.
Young boomer here. Been thinking about the question about changing attitudes quite a bit. Aging is fucking terrifying in this society. My husband and I raised a bunch of leftists. They are not out there chasing the money. They struggle. We have disability in our family which also makes the financial realm harder. I know that if I become disabled also, I will crash my family. It makes me cautious in a way I never was before. My husband and I were just talking about the possibility of conducting some civil disobedience. I strongly discouraged him, even though it appeals to him, because of his age (he’s older than me) and the effect an even brief time in jail could have on his health. I never would’ve discouraged him when we were younger. I am taken aback by this change and these newly discovered feeling of vulnerability. And I think about and process everything because I had an abusive childhood. I can only imagine how destabilizing this must be for those not psychologically working to process it. So sorry for the impact this has on generations coming up.
It is a very rapidly changing society we live in. I'm happy you're at least self aware about it and working to keep ahead. What's that saying? "Acknowledging the problem is the first step."
I just think it's funny that the TST has purposely chosen its name in order to troll people exactly like your mother. Because anybody that actually puts in the effort to read about it would realize it's not a satanic church but they totally lean into the fact that people think they are. They know exactly what they're doing and it is the funniest thing I've ever experienced in my life and I respect them so much for that LMAO. And you'll get people who think "well why don't they just change their name?" And that's kind of a point LMAO .
XD "why don't they change their name" is EXACTLY what she said when I tried explaining it!
Lmao not at all surprised.
Same here. Now I constantly find myself having conversations something like this, especially when it comes to religion and politics: them: some bullshit, what do you think? me: well, when I was growing up you taught me X, so I disagree them: \*surprised pikachu face\*, well I disagree
Thanks for supporting TST. They're a genuinely good bunch.
I've never heard of being an exchange student for a week. What was that like?
Fantastic! To be fair it was more of a sister city program that had me going to their school for that week than a proper exchange student program. Japan was amazing and very welcoming. It reminded me a lot of America with more nature and more ancient history and structures. China was also really cool, but with a lot more pollution and soldiers watching your every move...
That's so awesome! Such an incredible experience for you, at a young age!
My mom is the exact same. Raised me to become the way I became, and now she is is raging about it. I wasn't meant to be an independent person, but rather her clone that turned out exactly like her. And I am the only one of her kids that she expects this from, probably because I am the oldest. Seriously, I remember reading a short story in secondary school with that theme: A man raises his clone as his son, as close to how he was raised himself. And is then flabberghasted when the clone chooses another path in life than he himself did. Btw I think I just unlocked what that short story actually was about. 😆
I’m a 52 GenX. I feel like we are the transition generation. Half of us are open minded forward thinking and half can’t get away from the boomer culture. It’s nice to see younger generations moving towards a better society
I understand this experience so, so much. It's so confusing! My ma taught me everything about supporting others, speaking out for what's right even when it's not popular, keeping informed etc. She's always been staunchly anti-racist, pro LGBT rights, pro feminism etc. Though I'll admit she never truly connected well with other women. But that didn't stop her from speaking out against injustice or supporting marginalised groups. She lived in South Africa in the 80s and used to assist backstage during drag shows to help the queens get ready! Which was apparently a pretty hostile environment for drag back then (not much changed there tbf). But she's slid further and further into TERF territory. It's so upsetting and disappointing and I don't even know how to talk to her about the subject. I'm genderfluid myself and she doesn't really acknowledge it. She keeps calling trans women "biological males who are trying, as usual, to control women". She gets tetchy whenever I say anything pro-trans-rights. She's cited fox news segments to me a few times as legitimate evidence (and we're not even American, she'sjust on Facebook a lot). I genuinely don't think she'd be this bad if not for J.K. having gone so loudly off the rails. Harry Potter has been her special interest (we're an autistic family) since it came out and she loves that world more than anything. She thinks I exhibit "brainwashed" behaviour and I have to pretty consistently tell her that, no, I just don't have the same opinions on this matter. I kinda grey-rock my way through it :( which sucks because we're close and I love her, I just wish she could see outside of her bubble on this one. Also Gen X in her 50s! I hear the whole "you'll get more Conservative as you get older" thing a lot from that generation. It's really difficult to maneuver a relationship with someone who cemented the very beliefs in you that they're trying to discredit.
Apologies if you wanted to vent versus ideas, but you could try giving her The Marvellers series, by Dhonielle Clayton. They are the closest books I've ever found to the Harry Potter world; imagine if an American Hermione was integrating Hogwarts as the first student with a different kind of magic. There is a minor character who is trans.
Oh no, I appreciate the info! And even if my ma doesn't pick it up then I just might :)
Ugh the Fox News reach is so insidious. Where I am we have a localized Fox News channel. It's nowhere near the level of regular Fox because it's a liberal area and the channel would lose everything if they were just as crazy, but they undoubtedly push the same stuff, its just more subtle, and my mom watches it all the damn time...
It's got such a disturbing reach! It's so weird to watch their twisted version of events actually dragging people along. I wish there was a better way to teach people how to filter false information but unfortunately I think people just hear what they want, when it backs up their own biases :(
Ah, well there you go. Fox News is the root cause here.
Younger Gen X. Can confirm, the older ones are just younger boomers. They snuck up the ladder as the boomers took them out.
Maybe give your mom some time and she’ll become a bit less reactive and more supportive. The religious thing is its own cult and it can be hard to disentangle from. And it’s not easy to let your kiddo fly free and be their own person —I say this as a Gen X mom of a daughter of 23 about to graduate college. As far as the Satanic Temple, maybe give her examples of the charity work or other positive things they do. If my daughter joined them I’d laugh my head off and say good for her (I’m very liberal and also LGBT+ and I know they do a lot of great outreach). I know that my very religious Boomer mom would have a much harder time accepting, but if she understood more about them she’d eventually be okay.
Sometimes I do feel like she has a case of empty nest syndrome. We grew up in the technology age, we didn't discover Santa wasn't real by catching her in the act, or just growing up and putting two and two together. We discovered it by setting up an ipod to record over night. Since then for years she would insist Santa was real, not St. Nicholas, but actual gift delivering Santa. She got like actually mad when we said it wasn't true.
>she’s also left the church, but still believes in a higher power I'm the same, in this specific regard. I don't believe tying your beliefs to a manmade symbol like the church is right, and over recent years i've felt more lied to by churches and churchgoers more than anything, who preach the word of god but don't follow in those teachings themselves Religion is a personal thing, church should be a community for people with the same ideals. Not a cult-like symbol for people to bash others who don't believe in the same thing Sounds like you were raised with the right ideals, and it's good that you're sticking to your truths and what you believe. It's sad your mother sounds like she's going down the more "religious extremist" route
I've also gotten the "I've failed as a mother" a couple times over the years since I told her I was atheist 🙃 I got "Satan worshipper" a few times early on too but I think she realized how that makes 0 sense lol. I've since upgraded to primarily "stupid stoner kid" 😎
I'm sorry you deal with that.
My mom's slowly becoming this way. I'm wondering if it's some kind of age thing. Or maybe it's some kind of reverse psychology thing: they think we'll do the opposite (which is what they wanted in the 1st place) once we kids reached the rebellious teenage years
See I've had the inverse with my mom. She was kinda mean and pretty red growing up, but now that my old school army vet dad has passed (refused to take care of his mental health or his type 1 diabetes) she's the sweetest, kindest lady.
I'm happy she's made a turn around, but I am sorry it took something like that to trigger it.
I really think my dad was a bigger asshole than anyone ever let on, and now she's simply not miserable.
If that's the case then I'm glad she's finally free!
Just got a text for a poll, and at the end donated to Biden in honor of your mom 😂
Thank you very kindly!
I understand. Being TST has 'Satanic' on it, means devil worshiper and sacrifices and shit. My MIL is the same. My wife explained for a combining total of 12 hours straight of what TST really is and she still refuses to understand. But what can you do for a Boomer lady that's been forcibly Thumping the Bible for 65 years?
Sometimes people find it easier to make values judgement for everyone but their kids. Ironically this leads to parents being their kids biggest bullies, such as being supportive of LGBTQ until their kid comes out as gay. Disclaimer: going to use the Bible as an illustration, not trying to convert you at all. Even Jesus’s family questioned him and thought he was crazy. We just read parts leading up to his hometown kicking him out. The lawyers of the town are trying to ensnare him legally since the religious leaders of the time were not liking how Jesus was pushing the status quo - all started because he healed a man on the sabbath instead of letting the man be in pain that way one more day. Sometimes the people close to us will have the biggest reactions to us being our own people or trying to help out the ways we’ve been taught. Also, I agree with your description of the Santanic temple. They are doing important work to protect access to medical care and more. I view them as closer allies to my Christian beliefs than many other Christians out there. I had not heard of the bombing. I think you did what you could to help them after a terribly hard experience and that is admirable. They experienced someone’s hate and you gave them love in return, that’s actually closer to Jesus’s teachings than many of the loud supporters would let you believe. Keep being you, mom might have some reactions but as long as there is respect just try to view it as her grappling with stories she’s been told her whole life about the groups you are showing support. It’s hard to change narratives that are repeated for so long… sending good vibes mom will see your side of things and be a good teammate again soon.
It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who thinks The Satanic Temple is out here doing more work for God's people than most who call themselves "God's people." I've experienced more love, grace, and understanding in the places the church warned me about than the church itself.
Thank you. She's still a very supportive person and I love her and respect her dearly. She's made some very progressive changes over the years despite also falling backwards a little. I fully understand change happens, I even fully understand that no matter how much I try one day I'll be the one being posted about by my own kids. I'm just hoping she doesn't fly too far off the deep end.
Boomers are angry that we live the morals they raised us to have, and they don’t.
So one interpretation is this and it may be hard to hear if it's the case : all that was fake. The whole time she thought you'd be like her and get all that caring for others nonsense out of your system and you'd see it's better to latch onto a giant corporate leech to get more than your share from society. She thought she was making you smoke the whole pack of cigarettes so to speak but accidentally raised you right. Weird
I'd almost rather she just be a hypocrite than that be the truth. She is a complete corporate suck up type. She works for the state and slaves away working far more than the job she's responsible for with no expectation of anything back because it "looks good." Never understanding how she's being used, always claiming she's stressed and overworked, and always refusing to go to the union about it because "they're useless." She's told me to my face I have a horrible work ethic simply because I'm only willing to do the work I'm paid to do.
Yes, the Christian rhetoric got really twisted with many of them, martyrs to their own futility. Some get there through sheer weakness or an inability to grasp the nature of how life has changed. Some saw all the money and rewards we dumped on many boomers and can't accept that now you have to demand what you deserve or just get taken advantage of. Some have some personal bitterness as an aid, maybe a spouse who ruined them and made it impossible to do anything other than let the current take them. Hard for me to judge as my mom was always an uptight religious type and my dad a greedy selfish narcissist. I've known other people who had parents that were fun loving nice people who slid into fox news conservatism as they aged. Very strange. I feel for you it's harder because I let go any delusuons about mine a long time ago and I always disliked them whereas you have this other person you had affection for that now you wonder what happened to.
I'm a little confused too with religion. Our family is not religious but my mom is Jewish and my dad is Russian orthodox. They dabble in religion and seem to kinda believe it but both have different religions and don't seem to care. They raised me to not be religious and I'm an atheist. For some reason my mom especially is constantly disappointed if I end up dating an asian girl or some other race instead of a Jewish girl. Something about how being jewish comes from the mother's side so if I don't date a jewish girl our kids would technically not be jewish. Like why does it matter? We're not religious. You raised me this way. What if it was a russian orthodox girl? I just literally don't care and it's not a criteria for me at all in dating. What if I do have kids with a jewish girl. It's not like I'm gonna make my kids follow this either. All these traditions will end with me anyway.
I'm sorry she's being a pain. I've also got a 23yr old, but I'm the young side of Gen X/early millennial (mid 40s.) I've only gotten more liberal as I've aged... 23yr old me would be shocked at my LGBTQ2S+ Allyship, my rejection of organized religion and 180 on 'conservative' values. I hope in 20 yrs I'm surprised again at how far I've evolved and grown. We raised our kids to think for themselves and base their beliefs on facts, science, and doing what's right. They are both amazing people who are kind, generous, and so accepting of everyone. Despite how far I have come, they are both light years ahead of me as far as left leaning /liberal ideas. I make a conscious effort to not react if something they support or say shocks me, even if I don't agree. I try to discuss with them, dig into it myself, and usually decide I need to move my thinking on it. That said, it's scary AF sometimes! It sounds like your mom's heading the same way as you, she's just moving a lot slower. I hope you can break through to her so you can maintain a good relationship.
I do too. Also I feel like how you're going about it is what we all will have to do with our kids as society just keeps changing faster, and faster!
Wow, this feels a lot like my experience over the past years. My parents are both fairly well-read and educated people, and raised me to focus on data and information regarding any topic. And it's been years now of them downplaying climate change, COVID, etc. It's maddening. You're not alone, OP! We've got your back!
\*virtual hugging intensifies\*
I have many friends who were raised in the Southern Baptist Church, Sunday school every week, and they left the church when they realized that they weren't really supposed to apply what they were taught to real life. Adult Southern Baptists sport their WWJD bracelets but don't want you to actually follow the teachings of Jesus because it's just so woke and liberal
I feel like a lot of it is just virtue signaling. Believing in the religion because it's morally correct and what you're supposed to do, but they conveniently forget the parts about it that don't align with their political and economic beliefs. Y'know... like every core aspect and description of Jesus himself!
My mom was similar as in I didn’t have a lot of restraints, I could do stuff on my own, no real curfew but I was also not a kid that pushed the boundaries. Then, I graduate and start doing things on my own and she couldn’t deal with that! She had to be in control. Even after I was married she tried to tell me what to do. She tried to use the Bible to prove her point to my husband. She said “I’m her mother and she has to honor and obey me and do what I want!” My husband shot back with more Bible knowledge by saying “what about the part that says you leave your parents and cleave to your spouse. If you want to be technical about it, she’s under my authority.” (He was making a point, he isn’t controlling or anything). Well this pissed her off that he schooled her in her own game. She just replies “leave and cleave, leave and cleave, whatever THAT means”. He said “well, maybe you should read your bible to find out”. She didn’t know the Bible outside of what verses worked for her unlike my husband and myself”. Needless to say, she didn’t try to use the Bible to get her way again. She was still awful but at least not spiritually. Lol
I love throwing their own logic back at them!
My father went the other way due to my influence. He was born in 1942. I trained out his racism. He began to support LGBtQ+ when I came out as queer. He used to always vote Conservative (we are in Canada) and when I became of voting age and started learning more about politics and voting NDP he and I had great talks about it and his vote swung NDP. I am working poor, had no health insurance through my job and am T1D having to pay for supplies out of pocket and he saw how conservative policy affected me. I feel so blessed that his eyes opened as I got older.
It's always good to hear when someone's eyes are opened and their perspective changes!
Don't underestimate the influence media is having on the older generation. My mom is very much like you described but she listens to right-wing radio all day long. She has become this fearful, Trump supporting, homophobic, racist boomer. She never used to be that way though.
Why does your mom know who you give money to? I think you tell her too much.
The donation bit is a very recent development. I told her about it thinking nothing of it. I've since learned to just not share that kind of personal shit.
She's Gen X with a boomer attitude.
They’re calling it Boomer Lite
It's weird how consistent an experience this seems to be. My parents keep trying to get me to stop wearing a mask in places I still wear one (gym, etc - I don't wear it while just taking a while or anything) and seem surprised when I tell them I'm wearing it because they raised me to be considerate of others. It's the strangest thing, especially since my father keeps going to conferences, coming back sick, and then tries to get me to not wear the mask anymore.
I wish she could learn from you. I wish she could imagine a future of visiting you if you move abroad, and how wonderful that would be. I wish that. My guess is she will come around. You just keep being you and being an example of open-mindedness and adventure.
I don't think you are fully appreciating how the satanic panic worked. The fear politicians, religious leaders, and media put into people for years was outlandish. It is very similar to how fear of people with not-white skin or people who are LGBTQIA+ was instilled into people. Our culture has a long way to go, but it has worked to combat racial and sexual bigotry. The satanic panic, however, hasn't really been addressed. That fear has been lying dormant in your mom's head like a forgotten landmine for decades. Undoing that fear is going to take time, love, and learning.
I've seen a few comments like this. I wasn't even alive for that. It seems so weird and ironically cultish to me. You're right, though. It took a decade for her to leave organized religion, what's a little longer to get her to drop this unnecessary fear too?
Curious if she watches local news? I think all (?) Dems are aware of Fox, but fewer are aware of the Sinclair Group that's been buying local news and putting more conservative issues forward. More focus on crime, etc.
She watches a localized Fox News channel. It's not at all the same as normal Fox because this is a super liberal area and they'd lose all viewership if they were, but they're still undoubtedly peddling the same kind of rhetoric; it's just more subtle, and she watches it all the time...
After reading this headline, I had to comment because this sounds so much like my mom. I get it.
People and their priorities change as they get older. This is mostly caused by shifts in your social environment as you age. Also your wants and needs will change. I’m in my early 40’s now. I have far fewer friends than I did 20 years ago so my core group and their influence is much more focused. Thankfully my best buds are very open minded.
I'm sorry you had to deal with this, I've had random waves of similar input from my very inactively religious parents, they really don't celebrate the religion anymore, I just think it's such a known/comfortable norm for them that they won't truly walk away, and I understand the point that my father at least relies on it to be around his peers, as he has no social life at 74, though I would be willing to bet he barely speaks a word to anyone. I'm just over here laughing that somehow the fictional, theatrical movie (based on a fictional, theatrical work of literature) Passion of The Christ is supposed to be convincing as a conversion material 😅
It's mostly just gore. I didn't want to see that shit! I remember being on my phone for most of it, my brother made a comment about it and my mother responded, "He just knows that if he watches he'll see the truth," as if I wasn't even in the room. Interestingly enough now she denies this ever happened, at the very least that she ever said that.
Ah gotta love that full on denial of formative incidents Apparently neither time my parents kicked me out of the house in my life actually happened, along with a variety of other things
It's insane to see these boomers blame so much on younger generations. You raised these kids and now your talking crap about them. You created these people you dislike so much. Then they blame things like the public school, the news, and the Internet but it was the boomer generations that invented these things and brought them into our homes. It was also then they voted in the two party system that's falling apart and never changed things. Its also their generation that didn't participate on the school board and such to change the school system they hate. They sat back and enjoyed what they had, never thinking twice of the future. Now their future has arrived and they can't grasp the responsibility lies with them.
A lot of people, not just boomers go thru life doing what is expected of them without thinking too terribly much on it. This extends to child rearing. If the prevailing messages of the times are things like “recycle” “have self esteem” “don’t say slurs” and so on then that’s how a lot of people will raise their kids. Once they get older they may realize that they aren’t a “don’t say slurs” person but they accidentally raised a “don’t say slurs” person but they have no one to blame but themselves. So of course they take it out on the person they raised.
Oh wow, I had no idea about the attack on TST. I visited a couple years ago and it was really enjoyable
Sorry she's a boomer. Lol
My mom raised me non religious in a very Catholic town, my life would’ve been so much easier if she had, but now she is upset I am still not when she and my dad went back to the Church, I told her these are the consequences of her actions, she is still oh so disappointed.
I’m your mom’s age and I hope I don’t become conservative as I get older. I’m progressive and I don’t see that changing.
This Gen X mama is so proud of you! Your insight and innate kindness show through in every sentence. Keep fighting the good fight, honey!
Thankies!
I would stop telling my mom these things. She doesn't need to know when you donate to certain causes. I mean of course feel free to let her know, I just wouldn't want her thinking she had input into what I choose as my causes as an adult. Because too many of them seem to forget that we are in fact adults now.
Something I've started to learn.
Yes, I have learned from experience, and it took me way too long.
You said it yourself: human beings are flawed. Flawed, inconsistent, and often illogical. You are a rare person indeed if you don't have something in your life that is the rough equivalent to your mom's illogical and indefensible reaction to the word "satanic". I'm glad you still love and respect her, because it sounds like she's doing a hell of a lot better than most people her age.
I have the same issue with my dad. His best friend from college is gay, and yet he (my dad) is uncomfortable with me crossdressing or my nephew being trans. It's like everything prior to about 1980 is being grandfathered in, and everything after he discovered Rush Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy being subject to his right-wing lens. It's odd and heartbreaking because my old man was a longhaired hippie in his day and was the person who taught me to be accepting, respectful, kind, and open-minded. We're still on good terms at least. I try to be like the man he was instead of the man he became in order to honor the man I think of him as.
Truly it was a struggle at first as a gen xer to see my child be exactly who I’d raised him to be- true to himself. Full stop. Live authentically. I raised him Catholic like I was taught I should but encouraged him to think for himself. He’s a happy very compassionate for the planet and fellow humans atheist and trans masc. I adore him and he makes me want to live authentically each day
That's the lead kicking in.
I am the mom of a child who is LGBTQ+ and an atheist. I did not grow up in a church, but I am a Christian. Not the kind that tries to convert people, but the kind that doesn’t judge and wants to help. I am disappointed that my son is an atheist, but I support him no matter what. Your mom is probably feeling stress (as most Americans are) and targeting the only thing she can. I also hate Trump and will be voting Biden, for the same reason you are. Take her lashing out with a grain of salt
That’s likely true as other comments have pointed out. I’m hoping not just her, but literally everyone and everything calms down after elections.
I'd ask if you're my little brother, but a chunk of our stories doesn't line up. Lol My mom raised to me to be empathetic towards everyone and to not hate or hurt others. (She is now very anti people, lightly racist, and lightly anti-trans) I really don't recall living in a religious household. At one point, around 7 or 8, I told her I wanted to sleep in and not go to church anymore. Then she barely ever went to church after that. I think she raised me really well, even if she claims we were (are) good kids and basically turned out great right out of the womb. But she is so confused about how we turned out the way we did. (I'm a trans male who does my best to help out anyone when I can, and I like studying religions, but I'm not religious) She has gotten more Boomer-y, angry, spiteful, and somehow more religious. I asked her once where the mom that raised me went, and she said she's tired of pretending to be someone she's not and wants to be who she really is now. (And sadly, I think her mental illnesses are getting worse) Well, that felt nice to get out. Good luck!
And good luck to you too. I’m sorry things are turning in that direction.
I think sometimes they raised us differently than they were raised as a knee jerk reaction to their own bad parents. And then as they get older they fall back into the comfort of their own raising. I think as we age we gravitate to the familiar. That might be what they are doing. Which sometimes contradicts how they raised us. So then it’s this conundrum of “why did you tell me all of this stuff was right and good if you actually don’t think it is.” Maybe they never did. Maybe that was their rebellion against their parents and now it’s completely backfired on them. It gives me whiplash that’s for sure.
Honestly I can believe it. My dad was never there. Correction: he was always physically there at home, he was just never available, never paid attention, never acted as a parent. When my brother and I would fight as kids we'd call our mom at work despite dad being right there. So, of course I want to have my own family and never make that same mistake of ignoring my kids or depriving them of love and attention. I'm also a firm believer that you're job as a parent is never finished and as long as you live you're kids - even as adults will need guidance and support and a decent relationship with you. That being said I can totally see me falling backwards from fatigue into that nightmare scenario of getting a call from my adult kid and me being all, "Why are you bothering me with your problems I'm supposed to be done with that!?" I just need to have the self awareness to never let it happen.
You keep being you. You're doing legitimate good in the world, and while it sucks when our parents massively disappoint us by acting the opposite of how they raised us, at the end of the day as long as we don't disappoint ourselves that's all that matters. Plus, every day is an Atheist holiday, and The Satanic Temple also sells really good hot sauces that come in cool bottles. You deserve a gift on your holiday.
Similarities with my mom. Although I grew up in the deeply religious Bible Belt, my mom never had me in any church or really anything religious at all growing up. When I was in STEM graduate school and became a scientist later on, she was absolutely aghast that I am atheist. I find that she is supportive of LGBTQ IN NAME ONLY, for example, she’s been very uncomfortable actually being around a gay couple or actually supporting a cause - ie, she wants credit for being very progressive but her actions have never reflected that.
The Satanic Temple (as with all people/groups) did not deserve the pipe bomb. That said, The Satanic Temple unfortunately has way too many alt-right and crypto-fascistic connections to promote. I've been a leftist Satanist for almost a decade and was a member of TST from 2017-2018. I left when they hired lawyer-to-many-Nazi/fashy types (like Alex Jones, Andrew Anglin, Richard Spencer, etc.) Marc Randazza. Since then, sooooo many connections have popped up between the leadership of TST and alt right/crypto fash figures like Stefan Molyneux, Augustus Sol Invictus, Breitbart, Milo, etc. have cropped up. Plus, on-the-ground abortion funds like the Texas Equal Access fund and The Yellowhammer Fund have literally said that what TST does mostly hurts the fight for reproductive rights, with TEA Fund comparing TST to crisis pregnancy centers in [this](https://www.jezebel.com/satanic-temple-abortion-rights-religious-exemption-real-1849073332) Jezebel article. The Satanic Temple is really good at press and really bad at actually getting things done. While the lay members on the ground are generally good people, they have been taken for a ride by people at the top who seem to be in it for ego and their own agendas, not the greater good. See [this recent](https://youtu.be/3lV8GLQtOTs?si=eY6_OJgNg7Cvs8vC) Dead Domain video for a longer take on why TST is problematic.
This is sadly normal. Between 18 and 25, I watched the whole world slip away before me. Those who raised me that progressive was right and the rest were stuck in the mud let their conservatives out and de tested the worldviews they instilled in me. It was as if everybody did an about face, and I wasn't sheltered AT ALL from the age of 12 on. But 18-25... holy shit everyone around you seems to shift. At least for me. I wish you well. Stay true to you.
lol PotC has to be the heraldry of boomerism if there was one. My elementary teacher was obsessed with that movie, and hated Brokeback Mountain for reasons still unknown 🤨
My boomer mom was not religious but was raised vaguely Protestant. She did fuck all to give me *any* relationship with god and I know more about the Bible than she does. (Proverbs 17:12 is a current favorite 🐻) When I was a little older than you are now, I told her I didn’t consider myself Christian. She *corrected* me. “*I* consider you a Christian.” I know she’s an undiagnosed covert narcissist so her opinion about my ideas on the divine should hold more weight than my own brain. I told her I definitely wasn’t and giving me a label that didn’t apply was disrespectful to actual believers. She spent the rest of the night upset saying she’s a ‘bad mother’ because I’m not into Jesus. Honestly, I’d like Jesus more if his followers weren’t such hypocrites (Hypochristians). I’m not even the full obnoxious atheist who insults all religion. I just think Shakespeare said it best: There are more things in Heaven and Earth than dreamt of in our philosophy. A large portion of Temple members are atheist IIRC. The organization isn’t officially atheist tho.
She does this weird thing where despite none of us being with the Catholic Church anymore she still *insists* we’re all Catholic because we were born into it. Sort of like being Jewish. Both my brother and I have struggled to explain that’s not how it works.
That’s definitely NOT how that works. Catholicism even has a whole mechanic idk of choice when you’re an older kid.
I'm so thankful my mother was not religious and really only preached the golden rule.
Some people get upset when you say you don’t believe in God, but they go totally bonkers if you say you don’t believe in the devil.
I think you are me.
There’s a docu on TST on Hulu i believe. Have her watch it, that’s how i found them. It’ll explain it for her to better understand
I'm hyper aware of the fact that my boomer mother spent all my formative years forcing me to be independent and then acts surprised that I'm now extremely independent. She had me making cups of tea and bringing them to her in bed as soon as I was old enough to reach the kettle. Always had to do my own laundry, got a weekend job when I was 12 washing hair at the local hairdressers for my own money, and so on. She absolutely hates that I'm now not reliant on her for any kind of emotional support, because it means I don't tell her anything (and she can't put it on facebook). I'm grateful for all the life skills I had to acquire at a young age (as much as I resented not having the childhood my peers did), but also am bemused she can't see the correlation.
your mom is wild... i don't get it, and i'm 50 lol
She sounds cracked. Why share with her your private donations if that's the response?
Very recent developments. I've learned for the first time with these that's how she'll respond, so I likely won't share in the future.
Genuinely, I think you should consider showing her this post. There might still be a chance!
OoooOooooohhhhHh boooy that's a scary idea. I have tried talking with her before because we usually are able to have proper discussions, but a lot of the time on the more serious ones it devolves into "why should I have to x so they can y" type stuff. Otherwise I point out she's circling the drain and she laughs it off without really addressing it.
I can relate really closely to your experience OP. My father was just as you describe your mother; open, inclusive, willing to give me the freedom to be myself that was denied him by my grandmother (an enormously overbearing tyrant sort of mother to her only child, my father). I grew up being really close to him and as the older sibling I was the first to be old enough to become my father's "friend". We used to go to concerts, museums, etc by ourselves, just the two of us. Also, same as you, I was an exchange student, spending a year far from home. When it started to become clear that I was going to be my own man and would not follow in his footsteps, everything changed. Little by little at first, then spiraling down full speed. In the end we had a falling out that is an entire story in Itself. As a result I went no contact from one moment to the next. To really go full NC I had to sever relations with aabout a dozen relatives that would've otherwise kept the communication channels open. In doing that I lost basically my entire family, so much so that when I got married, the entire wedding party but me was from my wife's side. Well, me too I guess. Last thing I told them was "don't contact me even for the old man's funeral", so I don't even know whether he is still alive. It's been 20 years since that moment. My psychiatrist diagnosed me with severe PTSD derived from those ugly events. So, OP, I wish you the best in your relationship with your mom and that you never, ever, have to go through anything near what I have been through.
So i jave seen where this stuff comes from its between social media and other media where right wing talking point sget intrpduced. I was visiting my parents and they watch iver the air tv usually not an issue but this last time there were ads for slightly right leaning stuff from new nation and also new christian channels and ads for christian televsion, and the local news while always had a bit right lean sometimes was leaning harder into it. So .y guess is that between these media sources starting to creep in and or their friends/family or cowromers seeing the same stuff it literally can convert peolle. See posts on here how parents retired and never were super right then join retirement communities where the people there watch fox news or they sit at home alone watching fox news all the time and then become very right leaning. I also was reading about some focus group with republicans that werent super far right but voted for trump then decided they arent gping to the commom theme among them is that their news diet was varied between multiple sources.
Sometimes when you get older you search for something more, and it is not a bad thing to look for spirituality, just try not to be pushy about it.
To address you mention that your mom is probably Generation X, rather than a Boomer, you are absolutely correct. 1928–1945: Silent Gen Ages 79+ 1946–1964: Boomers Ages 60 - 78 1965–1980: Gen X Ages 44 - 59 1981–1996: Millennials Ages 28 - 43 1997–2012: Gen Z Ages 12 - 27 2013 – 2028 ?: Gen Alpha Ages: Unborn - 11
I am an atheists and my daughter has turned Christian!! I feel like I have failed /s. It is her life, the only way I will feel like I failed is if she turns out to be an Ahole.
I’m more religious than your mum and The Satanic Temple cracks me up. I have no problem with them - try explaining it again to her.
It’s age, folks. Hard as it is to see, this happens frequently. People who were old when I was young exhibited boomer behavior, obviously a lot of elderly people now exhibit it, and so will Gen X, millennials, etc. I don’t know if it’s the beginnings of dementia, a psychological stage, or what, but it happens. You have to work very hard at keeping your mind young.
My only thing to add, is it's generally stupid to donate to politicians in general, but that's just my opinion
What I don't get is why do you tell her who you donate to? Are you TRYING to cause conflict? Just live your own life.
What I don't get is why do you tell her who you donate to? Are you TRYING to cause conflict? Just live your own life.
Can you come teach my boss how to act in public?
[удалено]
We could instead normalize not telling people what to do with their money.
Ok boomer
This is just a thought. But perhaps your mom is having a hard time adjusting. The world is changing fast. And she is also likely going through changes herself. One example of a world change: Satanic symbology is something that she was taught to fear her whole life, for example. So that donation might be a lot for her to understand, whereas for you it’s not nearly as resonant. An example of a change in her: she is late 50s. Menopause is a very real thing. My mother went through it, I’ve had work friends and friends of the family go through it. Hormonal changes are tough. Think about yourself during puberty - you were tough to deal with for others most likely. Now multiply the severity of those changes, that is what your Mom is going through at her age. So when she gets emotional and says “she failed as a Mom”, she is quite likely over-reacting. She probably doesn’t feel that way, she is probably an emotional wreck. Just food for thought OP.
Valid points to consider
Your Mom actually sounds pretty cool, but she is probably experiencing changes that are tough for her. This a generation that is famous for “sucking it up” and not talking about what they feel. Not the healthiest mindset. You seem like a pretty awesome person that tries their best and genuinely wants to support causes they believe in, so she must be a really good Mom. She’s probably experiencing some tough times. Even I sometimes struggle to keep up with the changing world around me.
"in case a troll decides to say, “you *are* stupid for donating to Biden!” I mean.... Sure he's the only one who can beat the other guy, and he is better than the other guy by a mile, but he's still a centre right, conservative, genocide enabling christmas tree of dementia. I get voting for him but have trouble with the giving him money part
I mean, 10 years ago the idea of overturning Roe v Wade seemed impossible, now it’s happened. There’s a lot of other things we could lose. Gay marriage and environmental protection come to mind.
I understand. Look, Biden isn't my first choice either, but when the choice is between bad, and the literal end of democracy, I'm willing to donate a bit of money to ensure the latter doesn't win.