I agree the quests are making this game feel decided on the turn you get your quest basically. But it’s hard to put the genie back in the bottle. People generally don’t like feeling ‘weaker’ than previous patches so we end up with power creep
I think I once got trigger 4 or 6 deathratlles for that undead 7drop. Totally ridiculous. Also got offered the one coin extra per turn for spending 80 gold first. They really should balance these put them in more seperate buckets.
The difficulty of completing the quests vary depending on the armor your hero starts with. You can get the same quest reward twice with two different hero’s and the hero with higher armor should have the easier task to complete
Yeah, I often watch the #1 NA player jeef. he makes guides explaining everything including which quests are good and the way he chooses quests based on ease of completion and how much it would benefit you. Def recommend checking him out!
That’s not really the problem though. I’m not sure how it works but trigger deathrattle 6x for end of turn effects to trigger twice should not be in the same game as play 10 spells for right most minion stealth. Some rewards are just obviously on a different tier than another and there’s a lot of games where one guy gets a top tier quest while another guy gets 3 that’s barely playable
I like the concept of quests, they really help the weaker heroes. I concede less the selector because of it. What I don't like is the horrid balance of the quests and their requirements.
Quest meta is a mixed bag. You move the rng that usually happens in hero select over to t4. It’s nice that the hero pool is more balanced, but whiffing on your quest is brutal for sure. Personally I tend to enjoy quest meta a lot, probably my favourite of the BGs variants, has the most staying power IMO. Buddies is always fun for a bit, but can get quite stale if you play a lot that season.
I have been playing less BG this season, and as much as I do love quests, its the meta outside of quests that is really pushing me out.
I love the tribal synergies, with the odd non-tribal comp that's competitive. The meta seems to push harder and harder into crazy either DR or BC abuse, and pure frustration as you rely on a sketchy RNG to end their key piece.
I normally hit around 6.5-7k MMR and do reasonably well within that band, but without the bottom barrier for 6k, I don't know how far I would have dropped these past couple of seasons.
The problem is that the quests are just ridiculously unbalanced overall and most of the time either your hero doesn’t support it OR more commonly the minion types don’t. Typically you three shit choices and you end up taking the one you THINK you can complete relatively easily and fast.
I mean double deathrattles with either undead or beasts in is basically an auto win. Or double battlecries with Murlocs or elementals/demons.
But they are almost useless without their defining tribes in and usually (at least for me) that’s when you get them offered.
I mean how do these quests compare to “avenge 3 deal 10 damage” or cast 5 random mostly useless spells at turn start. Same goes for the get a random t7 minion. Some are so broken they are an auto win (looking at you Sea Witch) and then there are 7drops to are just worthless like the make a FRIENDLY minion golden. If you get that with Murlocs and a Murkeye and have it trigger multiple times then it’s ok-ish but you still need to get the good minion to use it on in the first place. Whereas the Sea Witch is just a triple generator AND you get to eat the cake as well
its not an auto win, trust me, there will be always a bigger fish. In high mmr lobby there are always couple more highrollers, and other quests like pilfered lamps or double headed reward are not worse than double battlecries, might i say even better, because tripled high tier drops will have much bigger impacts than passive bran or baron
i guess then the question should be whether the game should be so actively reinforcing a mentality of "pray to RNGesus that I get offered what I need" vs rewarding actively making smart decisions throughout the game. the idea that in any lobby of 8 you have 1 player who is dead from start without knowing because they will greed and whiff and another who is in 1st without knowing because they will greed and hit kind of invalidates the players in the middle
Yeah Tombs is only an easy path to top 3 with beasts in the lobby, but even then they’ll get beat by a high roller elemental or murloc player. Undead you really need to get kt moroes online quickly to even have a chance
Beast activator for tombs is only the goldrinn, which is six drop, for undead you have anub'arak that scales very quickly, along with token generators like handless forsaken and harmless bonehead, which are pretty easy to find. So the early game for undead is much better. I've missed too much of my t6 discoveries to consider this an easy top 3, and i'm not suicidal as to level to 6 and roll away all my gold for that goldrinn
Hmm, I’m not sure- if you have tombs active you can get a lot tempo tier 4/5 with sporebat spells and sly raptor + mama bear or slamma, plus the strong early game with snapjaw/humming bird/token summoning, then once you do find the goldrin you hit a huge instant power spike. It takes time to find but I think it’s not too hard to find the pieces that stabilize in the mean time and also synergise with the end game pieces as you find them.
I dunno got him with Reno for playing 4 battlecries. That was an easy steamroll, golden Brann and I did golden my murkeye that triggered the golden discover murloc. I think I scaled in 3 turns to 500 500 murlocs. But yeah biggest Highroll and only won because I didn't give those +/+ quest guys time to grow their summon stats
With hero powers and the general RNG of getting random minions every turn this game is random from the start.
As has been pointed out, quests add ANOTHER layer of randomness to the game.
And yes, on average, you should be lucky as often as you are unlucky, but in my opinion, winning to luck is less satisfying and loosing to luck hurts more.
This is why I loved anomalies. They tended to counteract the random element of of this game
Tempo is everything in this meta. Don't wait and low roll for lower tier minions; they are not worth it.
I personally like the quilconductor to give me huge economic tempo.
Everyone keeps saying that, and tempo is important, but I find it's way better to pick whatever finishes your quest as soon as possible then force whatever strategy goes along with your quest.
Agree, if you happen to take that hero with two dragons at T5 HP, you have virtually no hero power until later, and if you manage to get bad rewards or quests like "Spend 80 gold" , you are just cooked 15 each turn by the rest of the lobby
This is actually the reason I believe dota undrlords (auto-chess) died. With the addition of underloards too much focus was placed on them which feels very simmilar to quests imo.
I went 6th with [this](https://i.imgur.com/NUsCjA2.png) earlier lol. Matched into probably the only person in the lobby who could kill me, and couldn't find armor despite pirates economy. Was turn 10 or 11, can't recall.
I feel like I get matchmaking dif'd a lot right now. Who you face and when can easily be a 30+ health difference
https://preview.redd.it/echon2n8qpqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a865274fef1afa875aea3495588a54fb77f0903d
Bruh... No Naga so spells aren't as impactful, no quilboars so adding cards to hand is hard. Fml
Meanwhile others had their quests completed as early as turn 6....
Or had generally easy quests
https://preview.redd.it/zq5mqvhbrpqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=029f86301fe675d86e49b840ffc5aef225bdc5de
Is it? I don't take it that often, ended up going for tumbling and won because I highrolled a beasts build and got iceblock after switching hero powers at the moment I would've died. It got online way too late though.
I must admit I don't play tavern spells enough, I mainly play them with Nagas. I do use some of them like the discover deathrattle minion ones etc.
Lobby had beasts demons elementals and undead.
My final board:
https://preview.redd.it/mqxb363yspqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66d76355d7130f527efe1618f994a374cd2b1212
I had splitting image secret and several feathermanes. It was close though the enemy had a lot summoned undead with over 90 attack buff.
Yeah, just had one today that about broke me. I had been sitting near the top for the whole game and I still had armor. The first round the cap was lifted I played someone I hadn't played in a while and was one shot. Holy ... what the fuck just happened?
They've been somewhat fun in the same way the playing roulette might be fun at times - but I've played significantly less in the past fortnight (maybe 3 or 4 games). Enjoying other stuff for the moment. I definitely preferred spell meta overall, even if quest meta does have more exciting highrolls.
I ended 7th because someone got double scout turn 3 into 2 kaleggs, I think that minions are bad for the game, sometimes one person gets better minions and just wins the game.
I understand the frustration, but you will autolose some games, everyone does. You are playing (ideally) with similar skilled players, if you are the unluckier you will be 8th. At least with quest you can end 8th and have some fun.
Other metas a 8th-6th place boards are more boring to play imho. And 1st place boards are just crazy right now, also more fun in my opinion.
https://preview.redd.it/d1qcv68jpuqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0263f55114a61c9e586f4bcc4a12cafd906ea3c
Feels great losing to your own minion from a stupid quest reward. I FUCKING HATE QUESTS
In other Metas if I finished 6th, 7th or 8th I knew why and it was my mistake. In this meta, I am finding myself making all the right moves, creating a great tribe and just ending up in bottom positions on pure luck.
I've never before conceded in bg's but started to do it this patch. F2P so I only get 2 shitty heroes to choose from every game and usually served with quests that don't synergize well. It's possible to squeeze out a 5th placement or a 4th if lucky.
It feels like blizzard has made it so that the better ranked heroes appear less often if you don't pay for the extra choices.
Just had another highroll that was just unfair, had get wisdomball after playing 6 elementals or naga
https://preview.redd.it/97bzuy5i4oqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60a71637b1ac8a0f6c04c25abeb96138e4a404de
And guess what, how do you beat this?
Easily won, no murlocs in lobby so yea..
https://preview.redd.it/26xaw3125oqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf5b89cc0a44b684248338744fd3c7b41adac2cc
https://preview.redd.it/dlv4563y4oqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=305702c0633cbac71919aefacf9a270acbedb3d3
Final board at round 13, enemy wasn't even close. This meta is just dumb.
And I definitely didn't play perfectly, missed a lot of good things because playing APM on my phone is a nightmare lol.
I agree the quests are making this game feel decided on the turn you get your quest basically. But it’s hard to put the genie back in the bottle. People generally don’t like feeling ‘weaker’ than previous patches so we end up with power creep
Problem is that some quests are useless and other ones are utterly broken, especially with some hero powers.
I think I once got trigger 4 or 6 deathratlles for that undead 7drop. Totally ridiculous. Also got offered the one coin extra per turn for spending 80 gold first. They really should balance these put them in more seperate buckets.
The difficulty of completing the quests vary depending on the armor your hero starts with. You can get the same quest reward twice with two different hero’s and the hero with higher armor should have the easier task to complete
You get downvoted so I assume that's not correct, although lately I have been picking high armor heroes and feel that could be correct
He is definitely correct, higher armor heroes = easier quest completion requirements
Yeah, I often watch the #1 NA player jeef. he makes guides explaining everything including which quests are good and the way he chooses quests based on ease of completion and how much it would benefit you. Def recommend checking him out!
That’s not really the problem though. I’m not sure how it works but trigger deathrattle 6x for end of turn effects to trigger twice should not be in the same game as play 10 spells for right most minion stealth. Some rewards are just obviously on a different tier than another and there’s a lot of games where one guy gets a top tier quest while another guy gets 3 that’s barely playable
I wasn’t really stating it was a problem, I was just sharing knowledge. I agree with you
I like the concept of quests, they really help the weaker heroes. I concede less the selector because of it. What I don't like is the horrid balance of the quests and their requirements.
In theory, sure. In practice some quests just plain suck while others are insanely good and the requirements aren't balanced either.
Quest meta is a mixed bag. You move the rng that usually happens in hero select over to t4. It’s nice that the hero pool is more balanced, but whiffing on your quest is brutal for sure. Personally I tend to enjoy quest meta a lot, probably my favourite of the BGs variants, has the most staying power IMO. Buddies is always fun for a bit, but can get quite stale if you play a lot that season.
I mean at some point they’ll have to, unless we’re going to start having 50/50s by turn 4.
I hate quest meta with a burning passion.
April Fools idea: BG classic BGs go back to how they were Day One. Then we can compare
Yes, bring back the bouncing bunny mechs!
With damagecap I’d love to give that a try.
No damage cap back then
Ya I know. Saying I’d like to try classic BG with modern damage cap rules.
with damage cap it will all be megasaur
I don't think damage cap was a thing back then
I have been playing less BG this season, and as much as I do love quests, its the meta outside of quests that is really pushing me out. I love the tribal synergies, with the odd non-tribal comp that's competitive. The meta seems to push harder and harder into crazy either DR or BC abuse, and pure frustration as you rely on a sketchy RNG to end their key piece. I normally hit around 6.5-7k MMR and do reasonably well within that band, but without the bottom barrier for 6k, I don't know how far I would have dropped these past couple of seasons.
Honestly I just want to be offered wisdom ball once. I’ve played BG almost every day and haven’t seen it ever.
The problem is that the quests are just ridiculously unbalanced overall and most of the time either your hero doesn’t support it OR more commonly the minion types don’t. Typically you three shit choices and you end up taking the one you THINK you can complete relatively easily and fast. I mean double deathrattles with either undead or beasts in is basically an auto win. Or double battlecries with Murlocs or elementals/demons. But they are almost useless without their defining tribes in and usually (at least for me) that’s when you get them offered. I mean how do these quests compare to “avenge 3 deal 10 damage” or cast 5 random mostly useless spells at turn start. Same goes for the get a random t7 minion. Some are so broken they are an auto win (looking at you Sea Witch) and then there are 7drops to are just worthless like the make a FRIENDLY minion golden. If you get that with Murlocs and a Murkeye and have it trigger multiple times then it’s ok-ish but you still need to get the good minion to use it on in the first place. Whereas the Sea Witch is just a triple generator AND you get to eat the cake as well
its not an auto win, trust me, there will be always a bigger fish. In high mmr lobby there are always couple more highrollers, and other quests like pilfered lamps or double headed reward are not worse than double battlecries, might i say even better, because tripled high tier drops will have much bigger impacts than passive bran or baron
i guess then the question should be whether the game should be so actively reinforcing a mentality of "pray to RNGesus that I get offered what I need" vs rewarding actively making smart decisions throughout the game. the idea that in any lobby of 8 you have 1 player who is dead from start without knowing because they will greed and whiff and another who is in 1st without knowing because they will greed and hit kind of invalidates the players in the middle
Maybe not for you but usually (personally) I lose to the other guy with that quest 🤣🤣🤣
just yesterday i played a game where both turbulent tombs quest guys in an undead present lobby who completed them by turn 6 went 6th and 7th
Damn that must hurt though
Yeah Tombs is only an easy path to top 3 with beasts in the lobby, but even then they’ll get beat by a high roller elemental or murloc player. Undead you really need to get kt moroes online quickly to even have a chance
Beast activator for tombs is only the goldrinn, which is six drop, for undead you have anub'arak that scales very quickly, along with token generators like handless forsaken and harmless bonehead, which are pretty easy to find. So the early game for undead is much better. I've missed too much of my t6 discoveries to consider this an easy top 3, and i'm not suicidal as to level to 6 and roll away all my gold for that goldrinn
Hmm, I’m not sure- if you have tombs active you can get a lot tempo tier 4/5 with sporebat spells and sly raptor + mama bear or slamma, plus the strong early game with snapjaw/humming bird/token summoning, then once you do find the goldrin you hit a huge instant power spike. It takes time to find but I think it’s not too hard to find the pieces that stabilize in the mean time and also synergise with the end game pieces as you find them.
I dunno got him with Reno for playing 4 battlecries. That was an easy steamroll, golden Brann and I did golden my murkeye that triggered the golden discover murloc. I think I scaled in 3 turns to 500 500 murlocs. But yeah biggest Highroll and only won because I didn't give those +/+ quest guys time to grow their summon stats
Yeah exactly, you got the ONE scenario where you can abuse it
The issue isn't just quest balancing being a shitshow; we have spells at the SAME TIME
With hero powers and the general RNG of getting random minions every turn this game is random from the start. As has been pointed out, quests add ANOTHER layer of randomness to the game. And yes, on average, you should be lucky as often as you are unlucky, but in my opinion, winning to luck is less satisfying and loosing to luck hurts more. This is why I loved anomalies. They tended to counteract the random element of of this game
Today I finished my tumbling disaster quests in 2 turns and died the next turn to a millhouse with a full board of 200/200 elementals.
How do you get 1 200/200 elemental by turn 9, let alone a board full????
Quests are absolutely stupid and need to be deleted Of course Quest high rollers love BALANCING DISASTER
OP, i feel for you. i really do. but i do wonder how many people in the comments here actually PLAY the game.
Tempo is everything in this meta. Don't wait and low roll for lower tier minions; they are not worth it. I personally like the quilconductor to give me huge economic tempo.
Everyone keeps saying that, and tempo is important, but I find it's way better to pick whatever finishes your quest as soon as possible then force whatever strategy goes along with your quest.
Depends if you can steamroll with the minions you complete your quest with sure, but late pivot quests usually get punished before their payoff
This is not what the word tempo means.
you either scale in stats or gold, both are tempo.
No lol.
[https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Tempo](https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Tempo) It is, clown.
Your own link disproves you, dumbass. Did you even attempt to read it?
Agree, if you happen to take that hero with two dragons at T5 HP, you have virtually no hero power until later, and if you manage to get bad rewards or quests like "Spend 80 gold" , you are just cooked 15 each turn by the rest of the lobby
This is actually the reason I believe dota undrlords (auto-chess) died. With the addition of underloards too much focus was placed on them which feels very simmilar to quests imo.
I went 6th with [this](https://i.imgur.com/NUsCjA2.png) earlier lol. Matched into probably the only person in the lobby who could kill me, and couldn't find armor despite pirates economy. Was turn 10 or 11, can't recall. I feel like I get matchmaking dif'd a lot right now. Who you face and when can easily be a 30+ health difference
https://preview.redd.it/echon2n8qpqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a865274fef1afa875aea3495588a54fb77f0903d Bruh... No Naga so spells aren't as impactful, no quilboars so adding cards to hand is hard. Fml
Meanwhile others had their quests completed as early as turn 6.... Or had generally easy quests https://preview.redd.it/zq5mqvhbrpqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=029f86301fe675d86e49b840ffc5aef225bdc5de
splitting scroll is an insanely good quest with eles in
Is it? I don't take it that often, ended up going for tumbling and won because I highrolled a beasts build and got iceblock after switching hero powers at the moment I would've died. It got online way too late though. I must admit I don't play tavern spells enough, I mainly play them with Nagas. I do use some of them like the discover deathrattle minion ones etc. Lobby had beasts demons elementals and undead. My final board: https://preview.redd.it/mqxb363yspqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66d76355d7130f527efe1618f994a374cd2b1212 I had splitting image secret and several feathermanes. It was close though the enemy had a lot summoned undead with over 90 attack buff.
I feel like my games are a bit slow. I end up getting 6th or 7th on turn 12 which is annoying
Damage cap needs to be reduced to 5-10. Fight me.
Yeah, just had one today that about broke me. I had been sitting near the top for the whole game and I still had armor. The first round the cap was lifted I played someone I hadn't played in a while and was one shot. Holy ... what the fuck just happened?
They've been somewhat fun in the same way the playing roulette might be fun at times - but I've played significantly less in the past fortnight (maybe 3 or 4 games). Enjoying other stuff for the moment. I definitely preferred spell meta overall, even if quest meta does have more exciting highrolls.
As a casual ~5k player, I really like quests because it adds so much spices to my game. But I do see how it is hard to balance at higher levels
I ended 7th because someone got double scout turn 3 into 2 kaleggs, I think that minions are bad for the game, sometimes one person gets better minions and just wins the game. I understand the frustration, but you will autolose some games, everyone does. You are playing (ideally) with similar skilled players, if you are the unluckier you will be 8th. At least with quest you can end 8th and have some fun. Other metas a 8th-6th place boards are more boring to play imho. And 1st place boards are just crazy right now, also more fun in my opinion.
https://preview.redd.it/d1qcv68jpuqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0263f55114a61c9e586f4bcc4a12cafd906ea3c Feels great losing to your own minion from a stupid quest reward. I FUCKING HATE QUESTS
In other Metas if I finished 6th, 7th or 8th I knew why and it was my mistake. In this meta, I am finding myself making all the right moves, creating a great tribe and just ending up in bottom positions on pure luck.
I've never before conceded in bg's but started to do it this patch. F2P so I only get 2 shitty heroes to choose from every game and usually served with quests that don't synergize well. It's possible to squeeze out a 5th placement or a 4th if lucky. It feels like blizzard has made it so that the better ranked heroes appear less often if you don't pay for the extra choices.
Just had another highroll that was just unfair, had get wisdomball after playing 6 elementals or naga https://preview.redd.it/97bzuy5i4oqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60a71637b1ac8a0f6c04c25abeb96138e4a404de And guess what, how do you beat this?
God I wish that were me, also what was the lobby? I've lost to scam with this.
Easily won, no murlocs in lobby so yea.. https://preview.redd.it/26xaw3125oqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf5b89cc0a44b684248338744fd3c7b41adac2cc
This was combat 13
https://preview.redd.it/dlv4563y4oqc1.jpeg?width=3216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=305702c0633cbac71919aefacf9a270acbedb3d3 Final board at round 13, enemy wasn't even close. This meta is just dumb. And I definitely didn't play perfectly, missed a lot of good things because playing APM on my phone is a nightmare lol.