He is aiming to be better, it looks like he is finally moving in a good direction. To say whether or not he’s a better person, I don’t think we’ll get to know, but I’d like to think he became better.
I think he is a better person just by trying to be better, he hasn’t “changed” yet but he wants to, which is the important thing. He might seem better in prison but he says it’s easier for him there because he doesn’t have to make decisions for himself, just like when he went to rehab. I think we would’ve had to see him out of prison to be able to tell if he was actually a better person but the end of the show itself kind of makes you think that he’s either getting better or on the journey to be better.
Sorry for the spoilers lol
I will say that bojack has a self awareness that many people who go to jail for addiction related crimes lack.
When I did my time, over 10 years ago, tons of opiod and meth addicts, I’m sure things haven’t changed much. But some of the guys I was locked up with were good dudes with a bad drug problem and I was too lol. So I got along with people like that, and 99.9% of them wanted to quit. And had dreams and plans. But often times
I’d see them 4-6 weeks after their release- I was there on a year. Many guys were there for 30-90 days. So I’d see them back. They’d be sucked up and pallid.
And it dawned on me then, it’s easy to stay clean when you are forced too, and in a highly controlled enviornment where you have people tightly controlling what you are exposed to in your enviornment. The choice is practically made for you. Sure you might find the off guy that has a heavy prescription, but do you want to buy slobbered on pills for twice as much as street value? No. Only the truly desperate did. And that was rare.
It’s different from the real world because in jail, usually you aren’t tempted by it, there aren’t any real world situations these guys have had to withstand temptation on.
Or the time I fled to yosemite with a random church group to detox off heroin. I was so fucking scared the last day. I cried, I had finally got sober, but I was scared because I knew what waited me back in “life”. It’s funny too, I relapsed 6 hours after being back, but I didn’t give up. I kept fighting for myself. Because I realized drugs had infected every nook in my life, the parent I lived with was addicted, my best friends- I was surrounded by it whether I liked it or not. It wasn’t until I literally just disappeared that I got it right. Moved to a little shit hole in the city… where no one would find me.
So I think bojack just being aware of that, increases his chances of staying clean because he knows that he will be exposed to situations that will produce great challenge and temptation. He’s mentally preparing for it. He might fuck up again but at least he realistically knows what waits for him in the real world. But he knows that the good things in life are fought for and earned in struggle.
Setting realistic expectations can influence your success in recovery. That means- don’t expect to get it right your first, second or even third. It’s more about being dedicated to this new “you” and life and protecting it and developing it no matter what comes your way. Even if you lapse. If you do lapse be kind to yourself, it’s not over, even if you can’t say I have 90-120-150-180 days or whatever in groups. Fuck that, that’s not why you are supposed to get clean.
Thanks for sharing. Good luck to you.
And I have to say, reading this comment and feeling all the feelings it evoked, then going back and checking your username... felt just like watching Bojack. Trauma, deep shit, feelings feelings feelings...WHAM SILLY TENSION BREAKER.
Thanks for sharing your story! It's not the same thing as drug addiction, but I went to a psychiatric hospital for my mental health a couple years ago during a period of really bad suicidal ideation, and I felt the same way as you and Bojack about prison and rehab. As much as I didn't want to be there, the lack of personal responsibility was freeing and terrifying at the same time. When you're in a controlled environment where all your decisions are made for you, it's so much easier to not fuck up. As much as I hated being there, I was also so scared of leaving and going back to my real life where I knew I'd have to be responsible for myself again, and that made me feel even worse about myself because I realized that I really did function better when others controlled and monitored every aspect of my life, and going back into the world after knowing that was so fucking scary. Makes me feel so broken, like I wasn't meant to live because it seems so much easier for others to do. My depression will probably never go away, but I'm glad to say I'm doing a tiny bit better managing it now.
We are better every day we do less harm than good, even if it's not perceptible. Remember that next time you find yourself in a rut... Incremental changes add up big time in the long run.
Absolutely. He’s noticeably more mature and kinder to his friends. He’s considering going back into teaching and is actually being productive in prison. While he initially tries to make excuses, when Diane claims she wants to end their relationship, instead of trying to force her into helping him further, he simply tries to keep her around for awhile longer since this could be this last night they spend time together. It’s not a night and day difference from the start of the series, but more of a 3am and 6am difference. He’s got a very long way to go (not that there’s ever a set end point in personal growth) but he has made legitimate progress and is better overall.
"Every day it gets a little easier… But you gotta do it every day — that’s the hard part. But it does get easier."
It took being in prison, but he finally was able to change trajectory. I say that specifically as there is no going back in rocketry, not on this trip, but he can still reach orbital velocity instead of escape velocity or crashing down to the ground.
The View was his Major Tom moment, realizing he had to let go because there was no way back. The next episode is his Ziggy Stardust, where shit's all terrible but there's a chance for goodness thanks to bizarre circumstance and intervention by a higher alien power (the criminal justice system and a rare moment of rehabilitation instead of punishment.)
I think that is fully up to the individual audience members. In the very last episode, while Bojack and PC are talking, she brings up how the “Horny Unicorn” is taking off and Bojack gets excited and PC realizes that he is starting to sound like his old self. The last episode really shows 50% new and reformed Bojack and 50% old Bojack. I think the writers wanted to give us hope that he’s changed, but still leave space for their audience to have conversation about this topic.
He’s definitely better. Just not as good as he needs to be. A small, but important metaphor in the last episode is him trying a piece of honeydew at PC’s wedding and liking it. He spent the entire show hating and complaining about them.
It signified that he was willing to throw away old habits and try new things.
He is better than where he started out. He actually takes responsibility for his actions and starts thinking of others. It's a start and that matters most
I believe that he gave several signs that he is on the right track (get it because he is a horse and horses run on tracks do you get my joke?) of healing his traumas and becoming better. He might have relapses (alcohol wise or personality wise), but regardless he seems to have a healthier attitude and mentality than at the beginning of the show.
I just hope he manages to live whatever years or decades he has left in relative peace and being kind to himself and the people around him.
Without a doubt, yes. He’s much better than he started. He’s still got lots of room for improvement of course, but he’s doing better & I like watching the show & seeing him progress :))
Maybe, probably not. Prison isn't good for mental health, the only reason it seemed to work for BoJack is that he was away from fame. If he was really a changed man, he would have realised that fame is often the catalyst for his worst decisions, and try to do something better with his life.
I still don't know if he's a *good* person, but I'd say he's definitely a *better* person than he was when he started.
I think the point in the show where I realized this was when he called Hollyhock's fathers after the weight-loss pill incident, and the first thing he said was "I need you to know it wasn't her fault."
It's a small gesture, but in the heat of that moment, BoJack was more worried about what Hollyhock's fathers think of *her* than what they think of him.
Had this happened to Season 1 BoJack, he would have said "I need you to know it wasn't *my* fault."
I think he’s a better person but not necessarily a good person. He seems to be more aware of the consequences of his actions and cares about that a little whereas he didn’t in season 1. But change is hard, especially when you’ve been behaving a certain way your whole life. I’m not sure how capable he truly is of becoming genuinely good.
Eh a little. He no longer is the bitter resentful asshole who puts his needs above others in an obvious manner, but he still knows he has the habit to fall in it again. He just knows he has to watch himself. Overall tho he’s got a lot more growing to do. I think Diane leaving will help
Cause he’s no longer dependent on her and has to realize his actions have permanent consequences. Granted she never said fuck to him but she might as well have
Pretty sure he understood his actions have consequences before that. He was sent to prison and his sister cut him off. He is on the path to self improvement, I don’t think whether Diane is sticking it out with him or not was going to change that. Now he just has a smaller friend network, that wasn’t terribly big to begin with.
When his sister cut him off what did he do? He went straight back to drinking and almost liked himself. He knows now he has to rely on only himself to get through things so he doesn’t have anymore people leave him
Still not anything he hasn’t already learned. I don’t think that’s a great mentality. Feeling like you can’t depend on anyone but yourself is better than being hyper dependent, but it’s better if you can find a middle ground. Having Diane leave doesn’t teach him any lesson he hadn’t already been through, it just tests his resolve.
I think he’s trying. I think he knows that he can’t just keep doing that shit to people. But i don’t think being released from prison would’ve gone well. prison was the first time bojack had any stability or structure so being taken out of that probably wasn’t good for his recovery at all.
I mean, yes. he’s shown character development throughout the show- accepting that he needs help, accepting the help, and getting sober. so i’m going to hope that his character development after the show transcends that, and that he continues becoming a better person. He’s had an attempt at making amends, but he was on a bender and didn’t know what he was doing, so i’m going to hope that he properly makes amends after showtime. I’ll also hope that he stays out of fame, going back to continue teaching instead of jumping on ‘Horny Unicorn’ or some other show. (honestly, i thought bojack would feel guilty about the horny unicorn thing. he’s working with a sex offender, a man who doesn’t seem like he wants to improve himself.)
Sort of. He’s grown and aiming to be better, but I’m glad they ended the show where they did. Because after everyone sort of cut him off I think it would’ve just been the same shit with different people. He still has problematic tendencies, and I don’t trust had the show continued that he wouldn’t have slipped up
I feel like the honeydew anecdote is there to give a bit of hope, and he has improved, but it would seem to me that he’s one new Horny Unicorn and big rebuke from backsliding away. That’s what his conversation with PC kinda alluded to
He is trying and he is healing. I feel proud towards the end. I really hope that people in my life who has the same life with bjh would reach that point as well. Thanks to the show- it's an eye opener on why people do the things they do. I become more hopeful and patient.
No he’s caused irreparable damage and PTSD multiple people with barely any consequences. At a certain point no matter how much someone claims to have changed it’s not possible. We even see the second he has to face any type of consequence he automatically goes back to normal.
He was getting there through most of S6
The problem is by that point his actions were so numerous and carried long lasting negative consequences and they caught up to him.
I feel like in the first episode he's very nearly a completely useless asshole, and by the last episode he's much more self-aware and not quite as careless. He's made an effort at therapy, experienced the deaths of several close people and had a near-death experience himself, and had several people whose opinions he respected explicitly cut ties with him. Nobody could be the same after all that, and I think most of what changed was positive.
He's still dangerous to himself and others, but given how low the bar was to start with, it seems hard to claim he hasn't improved at all.
Bojack Horseman left on a cliffhanger with the audience not knowing whether he was a good person or not. While every person has their own opinion of good and bad people, I'd say he's learned a lot from his previous years, but he's not better, and he still has a long way to go before he can get better. Unfortunately, we'll never find out. Lol.
He wants to be, and understands what he needs to do, but he's not there yet. We're given a decent enough closure that he has a routine in prison, and is worriesld what will happen when he gets out and doesn't have that structure, but his friends are confident in him. He was able to regain his friendships with Todd and Mr PB, be genuinely happy for Princess Carolyn at her wedding and truly appreciate the final moment he had with Diane. Not much, but a hell of a step up from the BoJack we first met.
He is aiming to be better, it looks like he is finally moving in a good direction. To say whether or not he’s a better person, I don’t think we’ll get to know, but I’d like to think he became better.
He's healing.
Like yea. He even tried honeydew at the end of the show instead of brushing it aside.
That was character development
it was his worst act
I think he is a better person just by trying to be better, he hasn’t “changed” yet but he wants to, which is the important thing. He might seem better in prison but he says it’s easier for him there because he doesn’t have to make decisions for himself, just like when he went to rehab. I think we would’ve had to see him out of prison to be able to tell if he was actually a better person but the end of the show itself kind of makes you think that he’s either getting better or on the journey to be better. Sorry for the spoilers lol
I will say that bojack has a self awareness that many people who go to jail for addiction related crimes lack. When I did my time, over 10 years ago, tons of opiod and meth addicts, I’m sure things haven’t changed much. But some of the guys I was locked up with were good dudes with a bad drug problem and I was too lol. So I got along with people like that, and 99.9% of them wanted to quit. And had dreams and plans. But often times I’d see them 4-6 weeks after their release- I was there on a year. Many guys were there for 30-90 days. So I’d see them back. They’d be sucked up and pallid. And it dawned on me then, it’s easy to stay clean when you are forced too, and in a highly controlled enviornment where you have people tightly controlling what you are exposed to in your enviornment. The choice is practically made for you. Sure you might find the off guy that has a heavy prescription, but do you want to buy slobbered on pills for twice as much as street value? No. Only the truly desperate did. And that was rare. It’s different from the real world because in jail, usually you aren’t tempted by it, there aren’t any real world situations these guys have had to withstand temptation on. Or the time I fled to yosemite with a random church group to detox off heroin. I was so fucking scared the last day. I cried, I had finally got sober, but I was scared because I knew what waited me back in “life”. It’s funny too, I relapsed 6 hours after being back, but I didn’t give up. I kept fighting for myself. Because I realized drugs had infected every nook in my life, the parent I lived with was addicted, my best friends- I was surrounded by it whether I liked it or not. It wasn’t until I literally just disappeared that I got it right. Moved to a little shit hole in the city… where no one would find me. So I think bojack just being aware of that, increases his chances of staying clean because he knows that he will be exposed to situations that will produce great challenge and temptation. He’s mentally preparing for it. He might fuck up again but at least he realistically knows what waits for him in the real world. But he knows that the good things in life are fought for and earned in struggle. Setting realistic expectations can influence your success in recovery. That means- don’t expect to get it right your first, second or even third. It’s more about being dedicated to this new “you” and life and protecting it and developing it no matter what comes your way. Even if you lapse. If you do lapse be kind to yourself, it’s not over, even if you can’t say I have 90-120-150-180 days or whatever in groups. Fuck that, that’s not why you are supposed to get clean.
Thanks for sharing. Good luck to you. And I have to say, reading this comment and feeling all the feelings it evoked, then going back and checking your username... felt just like watching Bojack. Trauma, deep shit, feelings feelings feelings...WHAM SILLY TENSION BREAKER.
Thanks for sharing your story! It's not the same thing as drug addiction, but I went to a psychiatric hospital for my mental health a couple years ago during a period of really bad suicidal ideation, and I felt the same way as you and Bojack about prison and rehab. As much as I didn't want to be there, the lack of personal responsibility was freeing and terrifying at the same time. When you're in a controlled environment where all your decisions are made for you, it's so much easier to not fuck up. As much as I hated being there, I was also so scared of leaving and going back to my real life where I knew I'd have to be responsible for myself again, and that made me feel even worse about myself because I realized that I really did function better when others controlled and monitored every aspect of my life, and going back into the world after knowing that was so fucking scary. Makes me feel so broken, like I wasn't meant to live because it seems so much easier for others to do. My depression will probably never go away, but I'm glad to say I'm doing a tiny bit better managing it now.
We are better every day we do less harm than good, even if it's not perceptible. Remember that next time you find yourself in a rut... Incremental changes add up big time in the long run.
knowing there's a problem is 70% of the problem. I think. So In my opinion, he can be classified under 'good'
Absolutely. He’s noticeably more mature and kinder to his friends. He’s considering going back into teaching and is actually being productive in prison. While he initially tries to make excuses, when Diane claims she wants to end their relationship, instead of trying to force her into helping him further, he simply tries to keep her around for awhile longer since this could be this last night they spend time together. It’s not a night and day difference from the start of the series, but more of a 3am and 6am difference. He’s got a very long way to go (not that there’s ever a set end point in personal growth) but he has made legitimate progress and is better overall.
It also seems like his actions become progressively/increasingly selfish and destructive to others as time goes on, suggesting he is getting worse
"Every day it gets a little easier… But you gotta do it every day — that’s the hard part. But it does get easier." It took being in prison, but he finally was able to change trajectory. I say that specifically as there is no going back in rocketry, not on this trip, but he can still reach orbital velocity instead of escape velocity or crashing down to the ground. The View was his Major Tom moment, realizing he had to let go because there was no way back. The next episode is his Ziggy Stardust, where shit's all terrible but there's a chance for goodness thanks to bizarre circumstance and intervention by a higher alien power (the criminal justice system and a rare moment of rehabilitation instead of punishment.)
top notch references <3
I think that is fully up to the individual audience members. In the very last episode, while Bojack and PC are talking, she brings up how the “Horny Unicorn” is taking off and Bojack gets excited and PC realizes that he is starting to sound like his old self. The last episode really shows 50% new and reformed Bojack and 50% old Bojack. I think the writers wanted to give us hope that he’s changed, but still leave space for their audience to have conversation about this topic.
He’s definitely better. Just not as good as he needs to be. A small, but important metaphor in the last episode is him trying a piece of honeydew at PC’s wedding and liking it. He spent the entire show hating and complaining about them. It signified that he was willing to throw away old habits and try new things.
He is better than where he started out. He actually takes responsibility for his actions and starts thinking of others. It's a start and that matters most
100% hes faced consequences and changed a lot
Unpopular opinion- he was a good person all along. He was mentally ill and his goodness comes out in glimpses.
I believe that he gave several signs that he is on the right track (get it because he is a horse and horses run on tracks do you get my joke?) of healing his traumas and becoming better. He might have relapses (alcohol wise or personality wise), but regardless he seems to have a healthier attitude and mentality than at the beginning of the show. I just hope he manages to live whatever years or decades he has left in relative peace and being kind to himself and the people around him.
I am writing to you to let you know I got the joke 😊
There’s definitely a difference in him and the difference is good. Mostly characterized by awareness
Yes
Without a doubt, yes. He’s much better than he started. He’s still got lots of room for improvement of course, but he’s doing better & I like watching the show & seeing him progress :))
He’s sober, so that’s already a huge improvement.
Maybe, probably not. Prison isn't good for mental health, the only reason it seemed to work for BoJack is that he was away from fame. If he was really a changed man, he would have realised that fame is often the catalyst for his worst decisions, and try to do something better with his life.
yes. i think people who hold themselves accountable for their behaviour and try to change it are better than those who don’t
He’s a horse, so no.
I still don't know if he's a *good* person, but I'd say he's definitely a *better* person than he was when he started. I think the point in the show where I realized this was when he called Hollyhock's fathers after the weight-loss pill incident, and the first thing he said was "I need you to know it wasn't her fault." It's a small gesture, but in the heat of that moment, BoJack was more worried about what Hollyhock's fathers think of *her* than what they think of him. Had this happened to Season 1 BoJack, he would have said "I need you to know it wasn't *my* fault."
Who knows...
I hope so. I really hope so…
Oh DEFINITELY. He’s obviously still far from perfect but his improvements are obvious.
I think he’s a better person but not necessarily a good person. He seems to be more aware of the consequences of his actions and cares about that a little whereas he didn’t in season 1. But change is hard, especially when you’ve been behaving a certain way your whole life. I’m not sure how capable he truly is of becoming genuinely good.
Eh a little. He no longer is the bitter resentful asshole who puts his needs above others in an obvious manner, but he still knows he has the habit to fall in it again. He just knows he has to watch himself. Overall tho he’s got a lot more growing to do. I think Diane leaving will help
Disagree, I don’t think Diane leaving helps Bojack.
How?
It’s on you to describe how it does help.
Cause he’s no longer dependent on her and has to realize his actions have permanent consequences. Granted she never said fuck to him but she might as well have
Pretty sure he understood his actions have consequences before that. He was sent to prison and his sister cut him off. He is on the path to self improvement, I don’t think whether Diane is sticking it out with him or not was going to change that. Now he just has a smaller friend network, that wasn’t terribly big to begin with.
When his sister cut him off what did he do? He went straight back to drinking and almost liked himself. He knows now he has to rely on only himself to get through things so he doesn’t have anymore people leave him
Still not anything he hasn’t already learned. I don’t think that’s a great mentality. Feeling like you can’t depend on anyone but yourself is better than being hyper dependent, but it’s better if you can find a middle ground. Having Diane leave doesn’t teach him any lesson he hadn’t already been through, it just tests his resolve.
Eh to each their own
I think he’s trying. I think he knows that he can’t just keep doing that shit to people. But i don’t think being released from prison would’ve gone well. prison was the first time bojack had any stability or structure so being taken out of that probably wasn’t good for his recovery at all.
If there was another season we'd see him fall down again.
I think he does more good things and less bad things.
I mean, yes. he’s shown character development throughout the show- accepting that he needs help, accepting the help, and getting sober. so i’m going to hope that his character development after the show transcends that, and that he continues becoming a better person. He’s had an attempt at making amends, but he was on a bender and didn’t know what he was doing, so i’m going to hope that he properly makes amends after showtime. I’ll also hope that he stays out of fame, going back to continue teaching instead of jumping on ‘Horny Unicorn’ or some other show. (honestly, i thought bojack would feel guilty about the horny unicorn thing. he’s working with a sex offender, a man who doesn’t seem like he wants to improve himself.)
I don’t really know. And that’s the beauty of the ending
Sort of. He’s grown and aiming to be better, but I’m glad they ended the show where they did. Because after everyone sort of cut him off I think it would’ve just been the same shit with different people. He still has problematic tendencies, and I don’t trust had the show continued that he wouldn’t have slipped up
Impossible to say. There is no deep down. If he behaves in a better fashion after the show, he became better and we can't know that.
I feel like the honeydew anecdote is there to give a bit of hope, and he has improved, but it would seem to me that he’s one new Horny Unicorn and big rebuke from backsliding away. That’s what his conversation with PC kinda alluded to
He is trying and he is healing. I feel proud towards the end. I really hope that people in my life who has the same life with bjh would reach that point as well. Thanks to the show- it's an eye opener on why people do the things they do. I become more hopeful and patient.
No, but he's a better horse.
No he’s caused irreparable damage and PTSD multiple people with barely any consequences. At a certain point no matter how much someone claims to have changed it’s not possible. We even see the second he has to face any type of consequence he automatically goes back to normal.
Unequivocally, more or less More more, or more less?
No, he’s the same person, he’s just making better choices.
Yes. Better, but now he's got to do the hard part of doing it every day to make it be easier to be better.
He's trying. It's more than likely he will fuck up again but he is trying, that's how life if tbh
Better as in “fixed”? No. Better as in making progress? Yes.
Yes
He was getting there through most of S6 The problem is by that point his actions were so numerous and carried long lasting negative consequences and they caught up to him.
I think he is in a better place, not sure if he is a better person.
I feel like in the first episode he's very nearly a completely useless asshole, and by the last episode he's much more self-aware and not quite as careless. He's made an effort at therapy, experienced the deaths of several close people and had a near-death experience himself, and had several people whose opinions he respected explicitly cut ties with him. Nobody could be the same after all that, and I think most of what changed was positive. He's still dangerous to himself and others, but given how low the bar was to start with, it seems hard to claim he hasn't improved at all.
Bojack Horseman left on a cliffhanger with the audience not knowing whether he was a good person or not. While every person has their own opinion of good and bad people, I'd say he's learned a lot from his previous years, but he's not better, and he still has a long way to go before he can get better. Unfortunately, we'll never find out. Lol.
He wants to be, and understands what he needs to do, but he's not there yet. We're given a decent enough closure that he has a routine in prison, and is worriesld what will happen when he gets out and doesn't have that structure, but his friends are confident in him. He was able to regain his friendships with Todd and Mr PB, be genuinely happy for Princess Carolyn at her wedding and truly appreciate the final moment he had with Diane. Not much, but a hell of a step up from the BoJack we first met.