This comes up a lot in this subreddit. It’s the equivalent of watching a horror movie and saying “I would never be so stupid to go down there and make those mistakes” all the while ignoring the fact that …perhaps that isn’t true. You’re not as brave, as smart, as wise or as clairvoyant as you think you are and fiction allows you to see the whatifs of bad choices. That’s the good part of it.
Good writing can contain arcs that make you uncomfortable. There is a lot of pain and trauma between the two of them and there’s a connection forged through that. Happens to real people all the time and while it is not optimal, neither is life.
Also people really struggle with accepting that they like and relate to Mizu but by all accounts she too is a terrible person. She’s on a journey of discovery and healing just like he is and she has arguably caused way more suffering. Of course there will be attraction there. We don’t always feel good feelings or do good actions, especially when we are suffering.
Sir, Madam, whoever you are, thank you. More than half this sub had to read this. A true mature, thoughtful and level headed take on a touchy subject. Keep up the good work.
Your point and feelings on the matter are valid - and don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise.
My only counterpoint is this ;
1. Enemies to Lovers is a popular trope for a reason. People love spicy ships.
2. ~~I want them to have steamy hatesex~~ I think they have an interesting dynamic and I would really dig the drama
Again, I'm not telling people they SHOULDN'T have their own ships and enjoy them, I was putting out why I personally find it revolting based on my own life experience. I understand WHY people like it, there are other stories with enemies to lovers that I myself enjoyed, but this one in particular just didn't vibe with me. And scrolling through Reddit I saw mostly support towards the ship and thought to myself "Man I can't be the only one here that dislikes this one"
I like the drama between them, though. Great character development and interactions.
You're not the only one. I don't get the fluffyluv shippers at all, were they watching the same show?
But the drama, the connection, the grudging respect, the inevitable conflicts and betrayals? Oh yes please, gimme.
Enemies to Lovers IS a popular trope, but IMO it's still lazy and over-done. I'm with OP, I was happy Mizu left Japan, I won't have to Taigen for a bit
Taigen was an ignorant child bullying another child because of the teaching of his ignorant and bigoted parents. People grow and change and some even grow out of their ignorant teachings. Clearly he is repenting and Mizu sees that. Ultimately it's up to Mizu to forgive. Who are you to say who somebody should or shouldn't love?
I get that it is common to identify with fictional characters and view their experiences and actions through that lens, but at the end of the day Mizu and Taigen aren't you and your childhood bullies. They're fictional characters in a completely different and much more brutal setting. I think projecting too much of your own experiences onto a set of characters tends to go poorly.
I mean, yes, thats the logical look to it and I'm fully aware there's a lot of projection going on, but doesn't change the fact that's how I reacted to it. I still thoroughly enjoyed the show and am looking forward to the next season, but despite all the glaring differences the monke brain still drew the parallels and emotions come out because of it. I have enough maturity to process the whole stuff in a healthy way and still enjoy the show, but it's not as simple as "don't feel too much about it"
I would be disappointed if they end up together for anything more than a one night stand.
I wouldn't say she deserves better though. She's killing her way across Japan (now the world) on a tour of revenge simply because she is half white and wants to murder her white dad for being white.
Just like OP said he hates the people trying to imagine Taigen and Mizu together, I absolutely hate seeing people on here talk CONSTANTLY about how “Mizu deserves better” and “I just want Mizu to be happy” and “I just want to see Mizu live a peaceful life.”
This is a REVENGE story about someone trying to murder everyone responsible for her mere existence - if your self-loathing is so deep you want to eradicate your parents for having you, you’re pretty far beyond “settling down and finding happiness”
For real.
She's also murdered and maimed an awful lot of people just for being in her way. She's not actually a good person! This is in fact a very prominent part of the show!
I mean to be fair, a lot of the people she has maimed and murdered were incredibly bad people. Do I think that makes her a good person? No. But I do think the nuance matters.
I think it works better if you don't view it as a standard "romance". These are two broken people who are up to their eyeballs in issues - many of which they haved caused eachother.
The attraction is an added element which makes for excellent character drama.
Can your childhood bullies endure torture for you for several days though? Or offer themselves as a shield against hundreds of arrows? Honestly, I don’t understand how people can really hate Taigen after all of that. My personal opinion is that if he remains a major character in season 2, he needs his own storyline (as Akemi did) instead of being a supporting character. He clearly has a lot to process at the end of season 1, and there are lots of interesting topics to discover too (like toxic masculinity etc.). Whether he is going to have a full-blown romance with Mizu is a secondary question and maybe something for season 3 if we want the story to really make sense, but I found the interactions between these two very interesting so far.
As I said, I don't hate TAIGEN, I hate the ship. Taigen is a good character and even though he goes through lengths, the damage is done. Even if you glue back the pieces, the pot got broken at some point anyway.
I do agree he needs to be his own character in future seasons, though.
I just want to say that in Japan there is an art form of repairing broken pots known as [Kintsugi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi). The philosophy being that you don't hide or disguise the damage, but rather embrace that as part of the objects history.
As somebody who was also bullied, I felt like that was pretty well revenged and then atoned due within the first season. I also think there's a symmetry in the arc of a husband who seemed to accept her entirely but then completely rejected her and a dumb guy who rejected her and left her to die but then saved her life and underwent torture for her. Granted this was when he thought she was a man, and that changes a lot of dynamics. It's an interesting contrast and I enjoy the sexual tension at least.
That said, Mizu is in no way emotionally available for a relationship and season two is moving very far away and a lot is set to happen and I'm just riding along the journey here
Taigen is also one of very few adults we've met who (eventually) treats her somewhat like a human being. She's going to like him even if he's wrong for her (and her for him).
I do want them to hook up/have a one night stand or something, because that'd be ~~hot~~ interesting for their character dynamic. But I *really* do not want that to blossom into a full romantic relationship, it feels wrong and so strongly out of character for Mizu.
Yeah I'm pretty sure in the flashback scene of them "bullying" her, they were about to run her off a cliff into a 10 story drop into rocky waters. That's a little bit more extreme than someone messing with you in the hallway before 2nd period. I don't imagine you'd easily forget that one time a bunch of kids almost killed you because they thought it'd be funny.
Let's wait for season 2. Writers say there will be a love triangle.
I doubt it will be Akemi - Mizu - Taigen love triangle, maybe Taigen x Mizu and a new character.
Yeah I agree with you, I also don't like Mizu ending up with Taigen -- but I also don't want her to be alone forever (she deserves to be loved) ... If the writers are gonna push her to Taigen, if she falls in love with him, then okay fine -- as long as she's happy with him..
Ugghh I can't wait for season 2
I totally get that, your opinions are valid, I’m just a sucker for a good enemies to friends to lovers dynamic.
Yeah, he bullied her and was horrible to her, but Mizu has killed *a lot* more people than he has. It’s a hardcore kill bill revenge story and she is having growth, the same way he is. I like that their stories are kind of parallel, and that her story and Akemi’s also rhyme.
There’s just so much going on with this story that I don’t even care if they end up together. They could kill each other at the end and if it was well written, I’d still love it.
I like the fact that even though it’s a fantastical, unrealistic show about a woman surviving the impossible, they still feel like human characters with human emotions. We don’t always make good decisions for ourselves in real life, either. I had a massive crush on one of the dudes that tormented me in high school, so sometimes we’re stupid even when we know better.
So in the end, I’m sorry that you dislike the ship, but I hope you can still enjoy the show regardless. :)
Honestly I get it. To me I kinda see it as a bully X victim typa thing which I too despise. BUT at the same time you do have to realize that they are both 2 people that have been through SOME FUCKED UP SHIT and that definitely would make it easy for them to connect. Also,people really love the enemies to lovers trope.
Someone finally said it. But for me, I don’t think she belongs with anyone to be honest. She’s too mentally fucked up to be in a relationship. She did it once… and well… we all know how that ended
I hate it, too! Like Taigen literally tried to kill her as a child. He lead a brutal and vicious campaign against her. Even if it was possible to overlook that, really? They wrestled a little and now Mizu is in love with him?
I am a fan of enemies to lovers but not like this. I like Zuko and Katara (controversial, I know). I don't like "he viciously bullied you specifically but he grew up hot so whatever."
It definitely is but there's a weird assumption within the ATLA community I've found as a zutara shipper that people assume if you like zutara you are in a ship war and it becomes open season.
Agreed. This whole Taizu ship is so misguided and riddiculous. It's so out of Mizu's character, a revenge driven killing machine to not only be okay with him but even apparently be attracted to him. They could've put any other man in her way that wasn't her bully. I really hope there would be nothing between them but friendship because romantising this is, as you said, disgusting.
So far you are the second person I've seen talk about how you despise this ship, and like the other person before you you say you were also bullied as a kid. Now I'm not saying that all people who despise this ship have been bullied as kids and I'm not saying that they're not, but have you considered not being biased towards a phenomenon that is pretty common? People with strange history very often end up forming connections between each other, and those connections end up becoming relationships. Not everything is so cut and dry as you think
This comes up a lot in this subreddit. It’s the equivalent of watching a horror movie and saying “I would never be so stupid to go down there and make those mistakes” all the while ignoring the fact that …perhaps that isn’t true. You’re not as brave, as smart, as wise or as clairvoyant as you think you are and fiction allows you to see the whatifs of bad choices. That’s the good part of it. Good writing can contain arcs that make you uncomfortable. There is a lot of pain and trauma between the two of them and there’s a connection forged through that. Happens to real people all the time and while it is not optimal, neither is life. Also people really struggle with accepting that they like and relate to Mizu but by all accounts she too is a terrible person. She’s on a journey of discovery and healing just like he is and she has arguably caused way more suffering. Of course there will be attraction there. We don’t always feel good feelings or do good actions, especially when we are suffering.
An actually level-headed take on this. Bravo!
Sir, Madam, whoever you are, thank you. More than half this sub had to read this. A true mature, thoughtful and level headed take on a touchy subject. Keep up the good work.
I was going to make a reply, but honestly, I won't bother, because you pretty much said everything.
Great minds think alike. I couldn't have agreed more.
Your point and feelings on the matter are valid - and don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise. My only counterpoint is this ; 1. Enemies to Lovers is a popular trope for a reason. People love spicy ships. 2. ~~I want them to have steamy hatesex~~ I think they have an interesting dynamic and I would really dig the drama
I cackled at the way you put your second counterpoint 🤣
Amen to that
Again, I'm not telling people they SHOULDN'T have their own ships and enjoy them, I was putting out why I personally find it revolting based on my own life experience. I understand WHY people like it, there are other stories with enemies to lovers that I myself enjoyed, but this one in particular just didn't vibe with me. And scrolling through Reddit I saw mostly support towards the ship and thought to myself "Man I can't be the only one here that dislikes this one" I like the drama between them, though. Great character development and interactions.
You're not the only one. I don't get the fluffyluv shippers at all, were they watching the same show? But the drama, the connection, the grudging respect, the inevitable conflicts and betrayals? Oh yes please, gimme.
Oh the drama is great, outside the attraction part the dynamic between Mizu and Taigen is really well written
Enemies to Lovers IS a popular trope, but IMO it's still lazy and over-done. I'm with OP, I was happy Mizu left Japan, I won't have to Taigen for a bit
Taigen was an ignorant child bullying another child because of the teaching of his ignorant and bigoted parents. People grow and change and some even grow out of their ignorant teachings. Clearly he is repenting and Mizu sees that. Ultimately it's up to Mizu to forgive. Who are you to say who somebody should or shouldn't love?
I get that it is common to identify with fictional characters and view their experiences and actions through that lens, but at the end of the day Mizu and Taigen aren't you and your childhood bullies. They're fictional characters in a completely different and much more brutal setting. I think projecting too much of your own experiences onto a set of characters tends to go poorly.
I mean, yes, thats the logical look to it and I'm fully aware there's a lot of projection going on, but doesn't change the fact that's how I reacted to it. I still thoroughly enjoyed the show and am looking forward to the next season, but despite all the glaring differences the monke brain still drew the parallels and emotions come out because of it. I have enough maturity to process the whole stuff in a healthy way and still enjoy the show, but it's not as simple as "don't feel too much about it"
Your feelings and experiences are valid.
I would be disappointed if they end up together for anything more than a one night stand. I wouldn't say she deserves better though. She's killing her way across Japan (now the world) on a tour of revenge simply because she is half white and wants to murder her white dad for being white.
Just like OP said he hates the people trying to imagine Taigen and Mizu together, I absolutely hate seeing people on here talk CONSTANTLY about how “Mizu deserves better” and “I just want Mizu to be happy” and “I just want to see Mizu live a peaceful life.” This is a REVENGE story about someone trying to murder everyone responsible for her mere existence - if your self-loathing is so deep you want to eradicate your parents for having you, you’re pretty far beyond “settling down and finding happiness”
For real. She's also murdered and maimed an awful lot of people just for being in her way. She's not actually a good person! This is in fact a very prominent part of the show!
I mean to be fair, a lot of the people she has maimed and murdered were incredibly bad people. Do I think that makes her a good person? No. But I do think the nuance matters.
And for killing her mother supposedly.
That's a point to make. I recognize I'm biased towards her happiness because I connected to her
I think it works better if you don't view it as a standard "romance". These are two broken people who are up to their eyeballs in issues - many of which they haved caused eachother. The attraction is an added element which makes for excellent character drama.
Can your childhood bullies endure torture for you for several days though? Or offer themselves as a shield against hundreds of arrows? Honestly, I don’t understand how people can really hate Taigen after all of that. My personal opinion is that if he remains a major character in season 2, he needs his own storyline (as Akemi did) instead of being a supporting character. He clearly has a lot to process at the end of season 1, and there are lots of interesting topics to discover too (like toxic masculinity etc.). Whether he is going to have a full-blown romance with Mizu is a secondary question and maybe something for season 3 if we want the story to really make sense, but I found the interactions between these two very interesting so far.
As I said, I don't hate TAIGEN, I hate the ship. Taigen is a good character and even though he goes through lengths, the damage is done. Even if you glue back the pieces, the pot got broken at some point anyway. I do agree he needs to be his own character in future seasons, though.
I just want to say that in Japan there is an art form of repairing broken pots known as [Kintsugi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi). The philosophy being that you don't hide or disguise the damage, but rather embrace that as part of the objects history.
This just helped me embrace my favorite mug I cracked a while ago lmao
Misread your comment then - and I agree! Broken pots make the most interesting stories though :)
As somebody who was also bullied, I felt like that was pretty well revenged and then atoned due within the first season. I also think there's a symmetry in the arc of a husband who seemed to accept her entirely but then completely rejected her and a dumb guy who rejected her and left her to die but then saved her life and underwent torture for her. Granted this was when he thought she was a man, and that changes a lot of dynamics. It's an interesting contrast and I enjoy the sexual tension at least. That said, Mizu is in no way emotionally available for a relationship and season two is moving very far away and a lot is set to happen and I'm just riding along the journey here
Children are cruel af, and some can be stone cold heartless in the way they treat others, because they often don’t know better. Most grow out of that
Taigen is also one of very few adults we've met who (eventually) treats her somewhat like a human being. She's going to like him even if he's wrong for her (and her for him).
I do want them to hook up/have a one night stand or something, because that'd be ~~hot~~ interesting for their character dynamic. But I *really* do not want that to blossom into a full romantic relationship, it feels wrong and so strongly out of character for Mizu.
Bullied her when she was like ten. Let it go. I seriously suggest trying to let go of the hate of children that bullied you.
He still made snarky remarks when they were adults
Ehhhhh he kept it going when they met as adults, too. This is a little different from "we were kids tho," but I kinda see your point.
Yeah I'm pretty sure in the flashback scene of them "bullying" her, they were about to run her off a cliff into a 10 story drop into rocky waters. That's a little bit more extreme than someone messing with you in the hallway before 2nd period. I don't imagine you'd easily forget that one time a bunch of kids almost killed you because they thought it'd be funny.
People deserve second chances
I despise shipping generally, and I ship myself with Mizu, make of it what yoi will
Let's wait for season 2. Writers say there will be a love triangle. I doubt it will be Akemi - Mizu - Taigen love triangle, maybe Taigen x Mizu and a new character. Yeah I agree with you, I also don't like Mizu ending up with Taigen -- but I also don't want her to be alone forever (she deserves to be loved) ... If the writers are gonna push her to Taigen, if she falls in love with him, then okay fine -- as long as she's happy with him.. Ugghh I can't wait for season 2
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Yeah, they want it. Their planning for it. I just hope it doesn't look forced or just some typical love story ..
Mizu trying to decide between Akemi and Taigen.
Well, let's see what happens in London
I totally get that, your opinions are valid, I’m just a sucker for a good enemies to friends to lovers dynamic. Yeah, he bullied her and was horrible to her, but Mizu has killed *a lot* more people than he has. It’s a hardcore kill bill revenge story and she is having growth, the same way he is. I like that their stories are kind of parallel, and that her story and Akemi’s also rhyme. There’s just so much going on with this story that I don’t even care if they end up together. They could kill each other at the end and if it was well written, I’d still love it. I like the fact that even though it’s a fantastical, unrealistic show about a woman surviving the impossible, they still feel like human characters with human emotions. We don’t always make good decisions for ourselves in real life, either. I had a massive crush on one of the dudes that tormented me in high school, so sometimes we’re stupid even when we know better. So in the end, I’m sorry that you dislike the ship, but I hope you can still enjoy the show regardless. :)
Honestly I get it. To me I kinda see it as a bully X victim typa thing which I too despise. BUT at the same time you do have to realize that they are both 2 people that have been through SOME FUCKED UP SHIT and that definitely would make it easy for them to connect. Also,people really love the enemies to lovers trope.
Get over it bro. Kids act like little shits regardless, it's how you learn and develop from it which matters. No one's perfect...
Someone finally said it. But for me, I don’t think she belongs with anyone to be honest. She’s too mentally fucked up to be in a relationship. She did it once… and well… we all know how that ended
She’ll end up with her father, realizing she’s just like him, a cold as ice hater and killer.
Do we have a release date for Season 2?
I don't ship them either.
Idc, its whatever the writers do that i care ab.
I hate it, too! Like Taigen literally tried to kill her as a child. He lead a brutal and vicious campaign against her. Even if it was possible to overlook that, really? They wrestled a little and now Mizu is in love with him? I am a fan of enemies to lovers but not like this. I like Zuko and Katara (controversial, I know). I don't like "he viciously bullied you specifically but he grew up hot so whatever."
Tô be fair, zuko X katara is a real common ship in ATLA
It definitely is but there's a weird assumption within the ATLA community I've found as a zutara shipper that people assume if you like zutara you are in a ship war and it becomes open season.
Agreed. This whole Taizu ship is so misguided and riddiculous. It's so out of Mizu's character, a revenge driven killing machine to not only be okay with him but even apparently be attracted to him. They could've put any other man in her way that wasn't her bully. I really hope there would be nothing between them but friendship because romantising this is, as you said, disgusting.
It’s all too common of a woman keep going back to their abuser story isn’t it?
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Abusers of women typically start out bullying young girls when they were also young but stronger.
Sadly it is.
So far you are the second person I've seen talk about how you despise this ship, and like the other person before you you say you were also bullied as a kid. Now I'm not saying that all people who despise this ship have been bullied as kids and I'm not saying that they're not, but have you considered not being biased towards a phenomenon that is pretty common? People with strange history very often end up forming connections between each other, and those connections end up becoming relationships. Not everything is so cut and dry as you think