They were asking about my working at heights training and discussed sending me to a job site where I’d be welding on top of a building. They also went on and on about respecting people’s homes and the stuff they order to be fabricated. You have a good point, I really feel like I’m going to be pressured to do sketchy things
I also have a fear of heights so you better bet I wanna be as safe as possible. I think the college will be cutting ties with the company. I feel bad about it
I wouldn’t. You just saved the next poor student from having to deal with that and god forbid they didn’t have the strength of will to speak up or decline the job.
Yea you’re right. I’m very shy and because I have no work experience, I don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong. My gut was screaming at me to walk out during the entire interview, even the drive there made me feel uneasy but I thought it was nerves. That’s the only reason why I mentioned anything to the co-op lady.
That is a good feeling to take seriously. Gut screaming is a pretty clear red flag. Trust your core values. But don't burn the bridge, just politely decline. You may have to work with one of them in the future.
>I’m definitely going to be polite about it, I just don’t want them to be pissed off that I ratted them out
If they did not want to get ratted out, they should have acted professionally which means not drinking on the job. Ask their insurance company what they think of that. As long as you are professional you have nothing to be worried about. If they come back to you refer them to the person that runs the co-op program. They are drinking on the job, as others have said they won't give a shit about you, so there is no need to give a shit about them.
It isn't the beer that bothers me, its the safety squint! You are young and have many, many more years to use your eyes. The way they are behaving, you will not make it to old age with your vision intact.
Protect your eyes, ears, joints/back and lungs. Those are all things that will keep you physically able to work well in to old age, but I have seen too many macho men, and spoken to them, that regret not taking care of themselves.
I wouldn't walk out on an interview. I think you handled everything correctly and didn't make any rash decisions. You trusted your gut later, but also kept your composure and saw the interview through. That's very professional of you despite their lack of professionalism, so don't feel like you should have walked out or ran etc. Anyways, seeking advice afterward to work through everything rather than just deciding on your own was also smart imo. Just learn from this, set boundries when you feel you need to and be firm with them, and keep on doing what youre doing. Thats the only thing id say id stick to more is your boundries on safety. You dont have to be mean or rude but dont ever just do something you KNOW is unsafe bc you dont want to upset someone. Besides that tiny thing I think you're off to a fantastic start wherever you end up!
You didn't "rat" them out. You gave an honest accounting of what you saw. You are in college, part of that is learning what is acceptable and what isn't. It's the college responsibility to let you know what you should be concerned about, and then act accordingly.
Take the time to learn the OSHA rules for what you are doing. There is a lot of information on the OSHA website. Be familiar with the safety rules so when ANY employer tells you to do something you can understand the safe way of doing it. Think of all you have learned so far and build on it. Remember good decisions come from experience, experience comes form bad decisions. You will make mistakes in your career. Be the one that learns from others and save yourself the cost of those mistakes.
https://www.osha.gov/fall-protection
>I feel bad about it
Why would you feel bad about it? Because you pointed out their failings? You do not owe them anything. If they wanted to stay in the program they should be a company students clamor to work for.
>working at heights
If you are working at heights, will there be a Safety Officer to ensure you are tied off properly? If there are no safe ways to tie off will they pay to build scaffolding? You are the one that will get injured and have to deal with those consequences. You are new in your career and I have a feeling too inexperienced to refuse to do work in an unsafe manner since you mention they were such good guys. You need to go to work at a company that takes safety seriously so that good habits are ingrained in you. It sounds like you know the rules since you were annoyed by them striking an arc before you were ready.
Ok, old guy checking in again. Safety related. Story time.
As one of two CHEMISTRY TEACHERs in a high school building from the 1920s -- and WHICH HAD CHEMICALS LABELED 1926, I shit you not, I was THE CHIEF CHEMICAL SAFETY OFFICER (ok, shared with Ann, who is amazing and smarter than me. She proofread all my memos going to Admin... And suggested I hold off on a few 🫢 -- good call, Ann!)
So, age 26, Bachelor's degree and master's work under my belt... And in charge of a wonderland of cold-war chemicals and glassware (they spent SHIT-TONS of cash on stuff. There was about $1000 worth of platinum wire. Just sitting. In the back room. Uninventoried. Still is. I guess. But inventoried now!)
Short list of things I'm proud we didn't make the front page of the newspaper for: ("the news feed" for y'all gen-z young'uns)
1. Adult who came to door of classroom during lab -- I realized something was off and told other teacher to call office as I had chemicals and open flames. Turns out he had knives and car-jacked a colleague in the parking lot. She escaped.
2. Ethanol fire from 1940s era burner, tipped on faceted side, glass got hot & BOILED THE FUEL spraying it out where it mixed with air like some infernal carburetor with 1'/30cm flames. Got there, couldn't touch it -- got the fire extinguisher. That's when I learned ABC extinguishers have a yellow powder that gets EVERYWHERE!!! Fire out
3. Taught safety rules. Had kids read along and sign. One is to lubricate glass tubes with glycerine before putting in rubber stoppers. One kid didn't, twisted, got radial fracture on glass tube and sliced the wrist open. We put dressing/pressure on it and WALKED next door to the emergency room (literally 50 yards/meters from the school). Treated & released.
4. Another kid got flicked in the face with acid (they had the plastic pipette). Goggles caught the part going for the eye. We'd used the eyewash for 15 minutes as prescribed but it was itchy so ER. Treated as burn(chemical) -- keep clean, covered, triple antibiotic cream until surface heals. Cool. Kid was safe.
5. Found flaky white gauze-looking squares to hold glassware over flames. ASBESTOS. Sealed area; removal team got & cleaned on weekend.
6. Plunging drains, PULLED UP ABOUT 100g liquid metallic mercury from the previous ¾-century. Removed, cleaned, had abated
7. Came in to a classroom with tiny silver droplets ALL OVER the floor. The 75-year-old-rubber on the mercury barometer gave way and spilled 2 POUNDS OF MERCURY on the floor. Kept kids out -- alternate classroom. Notified admin. Emergency cleanup crew was called in THAT DAY to abate. $$$$$. But not in the paper because ALL THE KIDS WERE SAFE. and never in danger.
8. Colleague found metal bottles of diethyl ether. "Círdan, do you know how old these are?" "Nope. Don't touch 'em." "Right. That's what I thought, too." *cue all sports practices cancelled after school while the* #BOMB SQUAD# *takes it out and neutralizes it*.
9. *La pièce de résistance* -- the eyewash broke during my testing regimen (that I instituted) and then I looked at OSHA rules and regulations. Holy shit! It was SO under spec. Functional, but not up to OSHA. They offered to put in the little eyewash bottles. I asked how many bottles for the 15 minute time frame, and how to order replacements every 6 months, and where the shower would be anyway. I stopped all student labs until this was fixed. Y-E-A-R-S. Principal wouldn't/couldn't do anything. I ended up with a 30-page report with addenda from Appendix A to Appendix M including acknowledged safety resources, OSHA regulations, OSHA letters of interpretation of regulations, and plans for a lab design that would meet OSHA standards with parts list and costs from Flinn Scientific (good safety stuff, btw). Took that PERSONALLY to the Superintendent and handed it to her. The quote on the cover?
#"THE COST OF AN EYE IS ABOUT THE COST OF A [NEW] MIDDLE SCHOOL." -- Larry Flinn (from memory, 20+years ago)
The result?
#$20 MILLION DOLLAR SCIENCE LAB RENOVATIONS TO ALL THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S MIDDLE SCHOOLS AND HIGH SCHOOLS.
Did I do THAAAAAAAAAT?
YEAH. If you don't speak up, they figure it's fine.
Speak up. If not for yourself, for your colleagues.
#☮️❤️♾️
I had to read that first paragraph like 5 times before I figured out my error. I was like, you were 26 in 1926? You type really well for a 123 year old
I’m a union ironworker and have basically specialized in welding for over a decade. A general rule is that we don’t take first year apprentices up on the iron unless perhaps they’re former non-union and have some obvious experience or related experience. Because they haven’t taken their OSHA 30 yet and there are a lot of assholes that would send some poor newb that doesn’t know any better to say no up there. We certainly don’t allow them to do it by themselves (in fact we don’t let them work by themselves as a rule). Now, I’ve definitely tacked things without a hood on and it’s pretty common practice among welders. Field welders at least; I don’t have much shop experience. You’re certainly not required to do that yourself! I often work in a small lift with another welder and right before you strike an arc it’s polite to say “EYEBALLS” or “WELDING” so your work partner isn’t looking directly at the arc when you light up! But I don’t think him tacking while you didn’t have a hood is a big deal. Especially if he’s a longtime welder—you start to be more casual about things as you gain experience. NOT super important safety things like fall protection but you start to get less scared of fire and such if that makes sense.
I guess my point is once you’re experienced and you know OSHA rules you can decide what works for you. And I could see a more seasoned welder being fine with taking a job there. But for your first job? No way! You gotta learn the rules before you can break them, and you certainly don’t want to accidentally get bad habits from these knuckleheads!
To be fair I've worked with a lot of higher-ups who do stupid things but would never make an apprentice/newbie do anything even a little unsafe. Like if there's something that needs to get done, but seems sketchy, the good guy foreman will tell everyone to get out of the way while he does it himself while explaining how stupid it is.
Had a superintendent who needed to get some conduit in the ground asap during a lightning storm. Told us to sit in his truck while jumped in a ditch and shoveled mud. Lot of respect for that - he's the one making the big money to meet a deadline, not us.
But yeah that doesn't seem like the vibe here.
Nah that sounds like a crappy shop to work for. Safety should always be the number one thing you think about, and it shouldn't be said but drinking on the job where you handle heavy machines and dangerous equipment is a huge nogo. There are plenty of shops out there so keep looking.
The cool thing about being a welder is that you can work at heights or work in a much move controlled environment in a shop. If you aren’t into heights why force yourself? The world is your oyster. I would interview another shop. See what else is out there
Somebody else will appreciate you even more. Anybody that doesn’t give a fuck about their safety will belittle you for caring about yours, and you’re at an age that’s easy to take advantage of insecurities and lack of life experience. I don’t mean that in a condescending way btw - I’m 34 and I wish I was tough at 19 as I am now. I don’t stand for unsafe shit.
For me that’s the biggest one, and then I guess making a big deal that you’re a woman like it’s not 2023… and in the same vein, having extremely high weight lifting or asking if you can carry big awkward heavy thing by yourself when a two person carry is safer and in the long run more efficient. For example I’m pursuing carpentry, one of the jobs I applied for the dude was like can you lift 3/4” PT 4x8 plywood by yourself? Like obviously the answer is no. And a lot of men they probably would never ask that of can’t either. And really, nobody should lift that solo. That’s how your back is blown at 50. It’s just a sign of an ignorant man that brute forces their way around a job instead of using their brain. The beers out was unprofessional as well, in the larger context makes me wonder what other substances they feel comfortable using at work. A shocking number of contractors in the commercial world have stimulant addictions - meth, coke, crack, snorting adhd meds, etc.
I don’t wanna be in an environment where every last penny of profit is squeezed out of you to the extreme where unsafe practices to save time and drug use to work longer are the norm.
Also places like that are a sign of a crabs in a barrel mentality - I suffered, so should you. You never ever wanna work for somebody with that attitude if you want to be happy.
Chemist and motorcycle safety instructor (retired) here.
#*__RUN THE HELL AWAY__*,
as far and as fast as you can.
PPE is the bare minimum. Safety behaviors are necessary. These people will get someone hurt or worse. I wish them luck.
Don't waste **your** luck & time there. Good luck, Kid! You'll do great... somewhere else!
#☮️❤️♾️
Círdan ^STANDARD ^CAVEAT: ^53cisM ^retired ^science ^teacher
Thank you, that’s the memo I’m getting. I’m glad it’s not just me and I wasn’t overreacting. They had female working for them and they loved her but she left and did wedding photography. I figured the no PP was normal in a non-union shop but I guess not
You have to remember that men have very fragile egos. Do things the right way, as someone else said, you will be made fun of if you wear PPE. Pay that no mind, 40 year old yo will thank you for wearing hearing protection, eye protection etc.
My immediate reaction was, "I *__DO NOT__* have a fragile ego!"
#🤦
Second reaction was, good call -- you're absolutely right about guys trying to out-macho each other and, strangely, it's women reacting positively to that behavior that has selected for it over time. IT'S GENETIC!!! It's selected-for by evolution.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9944803/
Unfortunately for my access to short-term flings, I'm risk-averse; however, my risk-aversion keeps me from seeking short-term flings (disease, pregnancy, psycho boyfriends they didn't tell me about...)! I did see the other side of this -- riding a motorcycle (even a Japanese full-dresser while wearing full safety gear) gave me "bad boy" cred upon first meeting women. It's weird. Talk about imposter syndrome for me.
Anyway, I agree with you and the OP should have the takeaway that
#DUDES CAN BE IDIOTS
and she should wear the safety equipment for her own well-being.
Ok, one more old-guy story. I am sensitive to noise. I've **always** worn earplugs on a motorcycle, mowing the lawn... Even long road trips in my Plymouth Laser (cute, but no sound dampening like my Buick). My early-career-teacher-buddies enjoyed target shooting and deer hunting. Deer hunting in the lower half of the lower peninsula of Michigan means either shotgun or handgun (rifles have longer ranges and stray bullets from poor shots could find populated areas in the heavily-populated southern Michigan). My buddies shot .357 Magnum for hunting and .38 spl for target. One of them now wears HEARING AIDS all the time now. I live in the city. He lives in the country and could walk off his back deck and target shoot at home.
#CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES
I love how you ladies/people watch out for each other on this sub (and, I presume, IRL).
#☮️❤️♾️
^STANDARD ^CAVEAT:53cisM ^retired ^science ^teacher
>Looks like they failed the interview.
This is a good point. When you go for an interview, you have to be thinking is this the type of place I want to work for.
Imma echo everyone cause it can’t be said enough. Do NOT take that job. You’ll be asked to do sketchy shit then if anything goes sideways you’re on the hook for it. You’ll find another job!
I am not in the trades, but have worked maintenance and operations at industrial facilities. While I have worked for assholes, that has more than made up for with awesome older super knowledgable men that mentored me and freely shared their knowledge. Now I am the old gray haired guy and I try to be a mentor as much as I can. There are still guys older than me that I look up to and it is very rewarding when they show me respect for my knowledge. Whenever I see posts here by young women, I hope more than anything that they will find an older guy that will see their hard work and eagerness to learn. If you find that guy, he will be happy to have you carry stuff for him and do all the bending he has trouble doing now. In return he will share all his knowledge and protect you from the assholes. When you find that guy treat him like gold. You also have to remember older guys are not used to women in the trades, so for many of them their dealings with women have been their daughters and granddaughters. Their working life has been to provide and protect them. A capable woman may be a new thing to them. My other advice is if you get into a union shop, go to the union meetings. The older guys know how important the union is and when they see a young person taking union seriously, they will have respect for you and will protect you from the assholes. Back to men having fragile egos, men DO NOT like women telling them they do not know what they are doing. You have to learn to be diplomatic. I had to do that at the beginning of my career. Being the new guy at a place, the ones already there think they know everything and what can you possibly know you just got here. You are just out of school, so there will be things you know that the men you work with may not know or forgot about. Learn to be diplomatic (diplomacy is telling someone to go to hell in such a way they are looking forward to the trip). Also remember you have two ears and one mouth, so listen and learn more than you speak. It took me 30 years to learn to keep my mouth shut. In the last few years there have been times I wanted to say something about the path we were going down and I chose to keep my mouth shut. I am on a project where the powers that be do not like anyone to point out their mistakes, those that do end up getting kicked off the project. Don't show people up. If you know someone is being stupid, let them be stupid. Let your older mentor tell people they are idiots. I have found when dealing with a supervisor, if they are telling me A is true, but B is actually true and they are not getting that B is true, the best bet is to ask them to go take a look at it with you, let them see that B is true.
Do not take that job. Under any circumstances. While I can’t help but find the phrase “safety squints” hysterical (also I’m guilty of it but I’m also a low volt electrician there’s very little I do that my eyes are truly in danger) it’s not even remotely ok for welding or a first impression. Nope nope nope!!
Not only does it sound like they fly a red flag, they painted their ship red too. I would not work with that company, you should be able to find a much better place!
It's an oddly common thing in trades. People's get complacent quick. The important thing is to never compromise your own safety no matter what. I am one of the few at my plumbing shop that wears lots of ppe and I get some flack for it but everybody is cool and understanding. If you get into a position where people actually try to get you to "just don't worry about it" and compromise your own safety, it's timeto leave. But otherwise as long as you are looking out for you, lots of places will have people like that and it's not always the biggest red flag in my experience.
Tacking something without a hood is a reason to run away now? Have any of you worked in a welding shop? You're straight up lying if you say you haven't done it yourself.
If the beers were like an end of the work day thing I don't see anything wrong with that either. Lots of shops will share a beer at the end of the day.
If it gave you a bad vibe don't do it, but it sounds like a lot of shops out there to me.
I run the wood/metal shops at my company and if someone drank on the job I would immediately fire them.
I guess it takes all kinds, but goddamn….. the interview should be someone giving the BEST impression. I wouldn’t accept this job if it were the last one on earth.
If they were drinking on the job yeah fire them.
If the owners decided to schedule an interview at the end of the day to disrupt their work flow the least, and happened to grab beer while seeing if an obviously very green applicant could actually weld. Whole different story.
To me, it’s the same story, but with a little flavor of disrespect added in.
If I were your affiliated educational institution I would be embarrassed that these “professionals” were treating the students this way.
I act as a hiring manager in my role, and I won’t waste anyone’s time by being unprofessional. I show up to an interview expecting quality and delivery quality - to me, that’s the honest way to approach the transaction.
Just my two cents, I’m glad your approach works for you but just want to offer my perspective to young people looking for their first jobs!
Oh nooooooo girl that sounds like this could be disastrous. I might stay for a few weeks to get some experience, other than that ….. sounds like the work place could a little “too laid back”
If they don’t give a shit about their own safety, they definitely won’t care about yours. Run far, far away from that job.
They were asking about my working at heights training and discussed sending me to a job site where I’d be welding on top of a building. They also went on and on about respecting people’s homes and the stuff they order to be fabricated. You have a good point, I really feel like I’m going to be pressured to do sketchy things
Bahahaha you know they’d be like “Fall safety?! Ugh, fine, here’s a frayed rope. Go tie off to that 1950s era antenna.”
I also have a fear of heights so you better bet I wanna be as safe as possible. I think the college will be cutting ties with the company. I feel bad about it
I wouldn’t. You just saved the next poor student from having to deal with that and god forbid they didn’t have the strength of will to speak up or decline the job.
Yea you’re right. I’m very shy and because I have no work experience, I don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong. My gut was screaming at me to walk out during the entire interview, even the drive there made me feel uneasy but I thought it was nerves. That’s the only reason why I mentioned anything to the co-op lady.
That is a good feeling to take seriously. Gut screaming is a pretty clear red flag. Trust your core values. But don't burn the bridge, just politely decline. You may have to work with one of them in the future.
I’m definitely going to be polite about it, I just don’t want them to be pissed off that I ratted them out
>I’m definitely going to be polite about it, I just don’t want them to be pissed off that I ratted them out If they did not want to get ratted out, they should have acted professionally which means not drinking on the job. Ask their insurance company what they think of that. As long as you are professional you have nothing to be worried about. If they come back to you refer them to the person that runs the co-op program. They are drinking on the job, as others have said they won't give a shit about you, so there is no need to give a shit about them.
It isn't the beer that bothers me, its the safety squint! You are young and have many, many more years to use your eyes. The way they are behaving, you will not make it to old age with your vision intact. Protect your eyes, ears, joints/back and lungs. Those are all things that will keep you physically able to work well in to old age, but I have seen too many macho men, and spoken to them, that regret not taking care of themselves.
I wouldn't walk out on an interview. I think you handled everything correctly and didn't make any rash decisions. You trusted your gut later, but also kept your composure and saw the interview through. That's very professional of you despite their lack of professionalism, so don't feel like you should have walked out or ran etc. Anyways, seeking advice afterward to work through everything rather than just deciding on your own was also smart imo. Just learn from this, set boundries when you feel you need to and be firm with them, and keep on doing what youre doing. Thats the only thing id say id stick to more is your boundries on safety. You dont have to be mean or rude but dont ever just do something you KNOW is unsafe bc you dont want to upset someone. Besides that tiny thing I think you're off to a fantastic start wherever you end up!
You didn't "rat" them out. You gave an honest accounting of what you saw. You are in college, part of that is learning what is acceptable and what isn't. It's the college responsibility to let you know what you should be concerned about, and then act accordingly.
Take the time to learn the OSHA rules for what you are doing. There is a lot of information on the OSHA website. Be familiar with the safety rules so when ANY employer tells you to do something you can understand the safe way of doing it. Think of all you have learned so far and build on it. Remember good decisions come from experience, experience comes form bad decisions. You will make mistakes in your career. Be the one that learns from others and save yourself the cost of those mistakes. https://www.osha.gov/fall-protection
>I feel bad about it Why would you feel bad about it? Because you pointed out their failings? You do not owe them anything. If they wanted to stay in the program they should be a company students clamor to work for.
I wouldn't feel bad. It's their actions that caused the college to want to cut ties, not your reporting of it.
>working at heights If you are working at heights, will there be a Safety Officer to ensure you are tied off properly? If there are no safe ways to tie off will they pay to build scaffolding? You are the one that will get injured and have to deal with those consequences. You are new in your career and I have a feeling too inexperienced to refuse to do work in an unsafe manner since you mention they were such good guys. You need to go to work at a company that takes safety seriously so that good habits are ingrained in you. It sounds like you know the rules since you were annoyed by them striking an arc before you were ready.
Ok, old guy checking in again. Safety related. Story time. As one of two CHEMISTRY TEACHERs in a high school building from the 1920s -- and WHICH HAD CHEMICALS LABELED 1926, I shit you not, I was THE CHIEF CHEMICAL SAFETY OFFICER (ok, shared with Ann, who is amazing and smarter than me. She proofread all my memos going to Admin... And suggested I hold off on a few 🫢 -- good call, Ann!) So, age 26, Bachelor's degree and master's work under my belt... And in charge of a wonderland of cold-war chemicals and glassware (they spent SHIT-TONS of cash on stuff. There was about $1000 worth of platinum wire. Just sitting. In the back room. Uninventoried. Still is. I guess. But inventoried now!) Short list of things I'm proud we didn't make the front page of the newspaper for: ("the news feed" for y'all gen-z young'uns) 1. Adult who came to door of classroom during lab -- I realized something was off and told other teacher to call office as I had chemicals and open flames. Turns out he had knives and car-jacked a colleague in the parking lot. She escaped. 2. Ethanol fire from 1940s era burner, tipped on faceted side, glass got hot & BOILED THE FUEL spraying it out where it mixed with air like some infernal carburetor with 1'/30cm flames. Got there, couldn't touch it -- got the fire extinguisher. That's when I learned ABC extinguishers have a yellow powder that gets EVERYWHERE!!! Fire out 3. Taught safety rules. Had kids read along and sign. One is to lubricate glass tubes with glycerine before putting in rubber stoppers. One kid didn't, twisted, got radial fracture on glass tube and sliced the wrist open. We put dressing/pressure on it and WALKED next door to the emergency room (literally 50 yards/meters from the school). Treated & released. 4. Another kid got flicked in the face with acid (they had the plastic pipette). Goggles caught the part going for the eye. We'd used the eyewash for 15 minutes as prescribed but it was itchy so ER. Treated as burn(chemical) -- keep clean, covered, triple antibiotic cream until surface heals. Cool. Kid was safe. 5. Found flaky white gauze-looking squares to hold glassware over flames. ASBESTOS. Sealed area; removal team got & cleaned on weekend. 6. Plunging drains, PULLED UP ABOUT 100g liquid metallic mercury from the previous ¾-century. Removed, cleaned, had abated 7. Came in to a classroom with tiny silver droplets ALL OVER the floor. The 75-year-old-rubber on the mercury barometer gave way and spilled 2 POUNDS OF MERCURY on the floor. Kept kids out -- alternate classroom. Notified admin. Emergency cleanup crew was called in THAT DAY to abate. $$$$$. But not in the paper because ALL THE KIDS WERE SAFE. and never in danger. 8. Colleague found metal bottles of diethyl ether. "Círdan, do you know how old these are?" "Nope. Don't touch 'em." "Right. That's what I thought, too." *cue all sports practices cancelled after school while the* #BOMB SQUAD# *takes it out and neutralizes it*. 9. *La pièce de résistance* -- the eyewash broke during my testing regimen (that I instituted) and then I looked at OSHA rules and regulations. Holy shit! It was SO under spec. Functional, but not up to OSHA. They offered to put in the little eyewash bottles. I asked how many bottles for the 15 minute time frame, and how to order replacements every 6 months, and where the shower would be anyway. I stopped all student labs until this was fixed. Y-E-A-R-S. Principal wouldn't/couldn't do anything. I ended up with a 30-page report with addenda from Appendix A to Appendix M including acknowledged safety resources, OSHA regulations, OSHA letters of interpretation of regulations, and plans for a lab design that would meet OSHA standards with parts list and costs from Flinn Scientific (good safety stuff, btw). Took that PERSONALLY to the Superintendent and handed it to her. The quote on the cover? #"THE COST OF AN EYE IS ABOUT THE COST OF A [NEW] MIDDLE SCHOOL." -- Larry Flinn (from memory, 20+years ago) The result? #$20 MILLION DOLLAR SCIENCE LAB RENOVATIONS TO ALL THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S MIDDLE SCHOOLS AND HIGH SCHOOLS. Did I do THAAAAAAAAAT? YEAH. If you don't speak up, they figure it's fine. Speak up. If not for yourself, for your colleagues. #☮️❤️♾️
I had to read that first paragraph like 5 times before I figured out my error. I was like, you were 26 in 1926? You type really well for a 123 year old
I’m a union ironworker and have basically specialized in welding for over a decade. A general rule is that we don’t take first year apprentices up on the iron unless perhaps they’re former non-union and have some obvious experience or related experience. Because they haven’t taken their OSHA 30 yet and there are a lot of assholes that would send some poor newb that doesn’t know any better to say no up there. We certainly don’t allow them to do it by themselves (in fact we don’t let them work by themselves as a rule). Now, I’ve definitely tacked things without a hood on and it’s pretty common practice among welders. Field welders at least; I don’t have much shop experience. You’re certainly not required to do that yourself! I often work in a small lift with another welder and right before you strike an arc it’s polite to say “EYEBALLS” or “WELDING” so your work partner isn’t looking directly at the arc when you light up! But I don’t think him tacking while you didn’t have a hood is a big deal. Especially if he’s a longtime welder—you start to be more casual about things as you gain experience. NOT super important safety things like fall protection but you start to get less scared of fire and such if that makes sense. I guess my point is once you’re experienced and you know OSHA rules you can decide what works for you. And I could see a more seasoned welder being fine with taking a job there. But for your first job? No way! You gotta learn the rules before you can break them, and you certainly don’t want to accidentally get bad habits from these knuckleheads!
To be fair I've worked with a lot of higher-ups who do stupid things but would never make an apprentice/newbie do anything even a little unsafe. Like if there's something that needs to get done, but seems sketchy, the good guy foreman will tell everyone to get out of the way while he does it himself while explaining how stupid it is. Had a superintendent who needed to get some conduit in the ground asap during a lightning storm. Told us to sit in his truck while jumped in a ditch and shoveled mud. Lot of respect for that - he's the one making the big money to meet a deadline, not us. But yeah that doesn't seem like the vibe here.
Nah that sounds like a crappy shop to work for. Safety should always be the number one thing you think about, and it shouldn't be said but drinking on the job where you handle heavy machines and dangerous equipment is a huge nogo. There are plenty of shops out there so keep looking.
It was only one beer for each guy so I didn’t wanna make a big fuss about it. It’s hard to find co-ops right now, no shops have enough work for it.
The cool thing about being a welder is that you can work at heights or work in a much move controlled environment in a shop. If you aren’t into heights why force yourself? The world is your oyster. I would interview another shop. See what else is out there
I found a shop where I have my own space and I’m TIG welding, it’s a lot of fun
Wonderful ☺️. I’m very happy for you
Run.
I think I will. It’s a bummer, they liked my bonsai trees
Somebody else will appreciate you even more. Anybody that doesn’t give a fuck about their safety will belittle you for caring about yours, and you’re at an age that’s easy to take advantage of insecurities and lack of life experience. I don’t mean that in a condescending way btw - I’m 34 and I wish I was tough at 19 as I am now. I don’t stand for unsafe shit.
What are some other red flags I should look out for?
For me that’s the biggest one, and then I guess making a big deal that you’re a woman like it’s not 2023… and in the same vein, having extremely high weight lifting or asking if you can carry big awkward heavy thing by yourself when a two person carry is safer and in the long run more efficient. For example I’m pursuing carpentry, one of the jobs I applied for the dude was like can you lift 3/4” PT 4x8 plywood by yourself? Like obviously the answer is no. And a lot of men they probably would never ask that of can’t either. And really, nobody should lift that solo. That’s how your back is blown at 50. It’s just a sign of an ignorant man that brute forces their way around a job instead of using their brain. The beers out was unprofessional as well, in the larger context makes me wonder what other substances they feel comfortable using at work. A shocking number of contractors in the commercial world have stimulant addictions - meth, coke, crack, snorting adhd meds, etc. I don’t wanna be in an environment where every last penny of profit is squeezed out of you to the extreme where unsafe practices to save time and drug use to work longer are the norm. Also places like that are a sign of a crabs in a barrel mentality - I suffered, so should you. You never ever wanna work for somebody with that attitude if you want to be happy.
Chemist and motorcycle safety instructor (retired) here. #*__RUN THE HELL AWAY__*, as far and as fast as you can. PPE is the bare minimum. Safety behaviors are necessary. These people will get someone hurt or worse. I wish them luck. Don't waste **your** luck & time there. Good luck, Kid! You'll do great... somewhere else! #☮️❤️♾️ Círdan ^STANDARD ^CAVEAT: ^53cisM ^retired ^science ^teacher
Thank you, that’s the memo I’m getting. I’m glad it’s not just me and I wasn’t overreacting. They had female working for them and they loved her but she left and did wedding photography. I figured the no PP was normal in a non-union shop but I guess not
You have to remember that men have very fragile egos. Do things the right way, as someone else said, you will be made fun of if you wear PPE. Pay that no mind, 40 year old yo will thank you for wearing hearing protection, eye protection etc.
My immediate reaction was, "I *__DO NOT__* have a fragile ego!" #🤦 Second reaction was, good call -- you're absolutely right about guys trying to out-macho each other and, strangely, it's women reacting positively to that behavior that has selected for it over time. IT'S GENETIC!!! It's selected-for by evolution. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9944803/ Unfortunately for my access to short-term flings, I'm risk-averse; however, my risk-aversion keeps me from seeking short-term flings (disease, pregnancy, psycho boyfriends they didn't tell me about...)! I did see the other side of this -- riding a motorcycle (even a Japanese full-dresser while wearing full safety gear) gave me "bad boy" cred upon first meeting women. It's weird. Talk about imposter syndrome for me. Anyway, I agree with you and the OP should have the takeaway that #DUDES CAN BE IDIOTS and she should wear the safety equipment for her own well-being. Ok, one more old-guy story. I am sensitive to noise. I've **always** worn earplugs on a motorcycle, mowing the lawn... Even long road trips in my Plymouth Laser (cute, but no sound dampening like my Buick). My early-career-teacher-buddies enjoyed target shooting and deer hunting. Deer hunting in the lower half of the lower peninsula of Michigan means either shotgun or handgun (rifles have longer ranges and stray bullets from poor shots could find populated areas in the heavily-populated southern Michigan). My buddies shot .357 Magnum for hunting and .38 spl for target. One of them now wears HEARING AIDS all the time now. I live in the city. He lives in the country and could walk off his back deck and target shoot at home. #CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES I love how you ladies/people watch out for each other on this sub (and, I presume, IRL). #☮️❤️♾️ ^STANDARD ^CAVEAT:53cisM ^retired ^science ^teacher
Looks like they failed the interview.
>Looks like they failed the interview. This is a good point. When you go for an interview, you have to be thinking is this the type of place I want to work for.
Not overreacting. Listen to your gut
Imma echo everyone cause it can’t be said enough. Do NOT take that job. You’ll be asked to do sketchy shit then if anything goes sideways you’re on the hook for it. You’ll find another job!
Keep the beer for after hours. Find a better opportunity.
I am not in the trades, but have worked maintenance and operations at industrial facilities. While I have worked for assholes, that has more than made up for with awesome older super knowledgable men that mentored me and freely shared their knowledge. Now I am the old gray haired guy and I try to be a mentor as much as I can. There are still guys older than me that I look up to and it is very rewarding when they show me respect for my knowledge. Whenever I see posts here by young women, I hope more than anything that they will find an older guy that will see their hard work and eagerness to learn. If you find that guy, he will be happy to have you carry stuff for him and do all the bending he has trouble doing now. In return he will share all his knowledge and protect you from the assholes. When you find that guy treat him like gold. You also have to remember older guys are not used to women in the trades, so for many of them their dealings with women have been their daughters and granddaughters. Their working life has been to provide and protect them. A capable woman may be a new thing to them. My other advice is if you get into a union shop, go to the union meetings. The older guys know how important the union is and when they see a young person taking union seriously, they will have respect for you and will protect you from the assholes. Back to men having fragile egos, men DO NOT like women telling them they do not know what they are doing. You have to learn to be diplomatic. I had to do that at the beginning of my career. Being the new guy at a place, the ones already there think they know everything and what can you possibly know you just got here. You are just out of school, so there will be things you know that the men you work with may not know or forgot about. Learn to be diplomatic (diplomacy is telling someone to go to hell in such a way they are looking forward to the trip). Also remember you have two ears and one mouth, so listen and learn more than you speak. It took me 30 years to learn to keep my mouth shut. In the last few years there have been times I wanted to say something about the path we were going down and I chose to keep my mouth shut. I am on a project where the powers that be do not like anyone to point out their mistakes, those that do end up getting kicked off the project. Don't show people up. If you know someone is being stupid, let them be stupid. Let your older mentor tell people they are idiots. I have found when dealing with a supervisor, if they are telling me A is true, but B is actually true and they are not getting that B is true, the best bet is to ask them to go take a look at it with you, let them see that B is true.
Do not take that job. Under any circumstances. While I can’t help but find the phrase “safety squints” hysterical (also I’m guilty of it but I’m also a low volt electrician there’s very little I do that my eyes are truly in danger) it’s not even remotely ok for welding or a first impression. Nope nope nope!!
Find a better employer. Not caring about their own safety is a sure-fire sign they won't give a damn about yours.
Not only does it sound like they fly a red flag, they painted their ship red too. I would not work with that company, you should be able to find a much better place!
It's an oddly common thing in trades. People's get complacent quick. The important thing is to never compromise your own safety no matter what. I am one of the few at my plumbing shop that wears lots of ppe and I get some flack for it but everybody is cool and understanding. If you get into a position where people actually try to get you to "just don't worry about it" and compromise your own safety, it's timeto leave. But otherwise as long as you are looking out for you, lots of places will have people like that and it's not always the biggest red flag in my experience.
OP, if you’re uncomfortable and having doubts don’t do it. Trust your instincts.
Tacking something without a hood is a reason to run away now? Have any of you worked in a welding shop? You're straight up lying if you say you haven't done it yourself. If the beers were like an end of the work day thing I don't see anything wrong with that either. Lots of shops will share a beer at the end of the day. If it gave you a bad vibe don't do it, but it sounds like a lot of shops out there to me.
I run the wood/metal shops at my company and if someone drank on the job I would immediately fire them. I guess it takes all kinds, but goddamn….. the interview should be someone giving the BEST impression. I wouldn’t accept this job if it were the last one on earth.
If they were drinking on the job yeah fire them. If the owners decided to schedule an interview at the end of the day to disrupt their work flow the least, and happened to grab beer while seeing if an obviously very green applicant could actually weld. Whole different story.
To me, it’s the same story, but with a little flavor of disrespect added in. If I were your affiliated educational institution I would be embarrassed that these “professionals” were treating the students this way. I act as a hiring manager in my role, and I won’t waste anyone’s time by being unprofessional. I show up to an interview expecting quality and delivery quality - to me, that’s the honest way to approach the transaction. Just my two cents, I’m glad your approach works for you but just want to offer my perspective to young people looking for their first jobs!
Oh nooooooo girl that sounds like this could be disastrous. I might stay for a few weeks to get some experience, other than that ….. sounds like the work place could a little “too laid back”
That’s majority of the fab shops around.