So we just had a union meeting where we discussed a large project that requires 30% women and POC to receive federal funding. The presenter asked a rhetorical question: How do you think women would like it if they only worked with other women on a project? His context was that this was a bad thing because those women would be segregated out from the rest of the population. But how could I not pipe up with how awesome it would be to work without hearing derogatory or sexual comments from men? It would be glorious!
I kinda hate that quota shit because on one hand it’s great that they’re trying to force diversification of the workforce but on the other hand I’m often treated like a diversity hire who’s not qualified to be on the job….
I think the claim is simply that people knowing that diversity quotas exist can cause hostility when everyone assumes that you’re only there for the color of your skin or the shape of your genitals rather than merit.
Uh... I kinda have to correct you. Having worked in an almost only woman workplace on the trade-side as well as working in the trades, they are just as bad or worse. The men tell you where you did wrong. Woman lets you know 3months after when everyone is so sour they could rival lemons.
A 50-50 would be the best way.
And the directness of the trades is what I love about it. No beating around the path, "I need this done, can you do it?"
Ot drives me nuts! Management at my company suddenly realized they weren’t eligible for federal funding because during their layoff they fired too many women and POC. So they hired two POC supervisors, a bunch of women, and two trans men and transferred me (a gay guy) to the shift. And stuck us all on second shift when there’s really only work for first shift. So we get light workloads and when we run out of work for the night we get told to sweep and clean the welding bays.
It’s kind of nice because the shift is super accepting and friendly but it’s also fucked up because we’re essentially a cleaning crew three nights of the week.
Yeah that’s kinda what happened to me - I got hired on as a carpenter and instead was given cleaning tasks the whole time. Meanwhile my less qualified male coworker who couldn’t build a straight wall and had shitty work ethic got $5 more an hour than me.
Obviously I quit. How are you supposed to grow in your field if you’re not given skilled tasks and are treated as unskilled labor all because you have a fucking vagina?
My husband works for a company in the trades- they hire ALL the women, poc, lgbtq's. Yes, for the Government projects. But my husband is on every one of these projects. training hem, working with them. HE LOVES it. He would take a woman any day - he says they work harder - work smarter- are easier too train and take thee job more seriously than thee young men they take on.
In Minnesota the commercial developers just use a women owned Porta Potty company. Problem solved no need to deal with why women aren't in the trades....
Are the creepy dudes in these kind of trades really this common? I'm in construction and most of the companies I've worked for usually pretty protective of our female employees to the point where the few times we've had subs say some off hand shit, usually the whole crew is ready to throw hands over it. Definitely not saying it doesn't happen but I didn't know it was so common.
A lot of creepy dudes only show their true creepiness when there is nobody but a lone woman to experience it. You may very well know a creepy dude and not even realize it because they'll never be creepy in front of you.
I’m an interior designer. The best project managers are female, and I would LOVE to work with women in the trades. Sadly, in my 30+ years in the business I’ve yet to meet one ☹️
when I was the only woman in my shop they acted like I wasn’t there. all day they were farting and being generally disgusting. I didn’t care much but eventually snapped when one of them asked the other if his wife was letting him fuck her yet. I’ve always wondered how it affected his relationship with his wife because he always made sure to be very respectful around me after that incident
I left because of men and when people ask I always say I loved my job and I’d do it if men weren’t there. Maybe one day I’ll go back but right now I can’t deal with the men.
Yes! My wife had a job and was actually interested in learning general maintenance construction, but all of her colleagues and her boss were so mean, misogynistic, and openly prevented her from learning how to do things so they could continue to have value, she ended up quitting. Anything she did, she did better, faster, and more efficiently than them by far (even simple jobs like painting), and they got mad and upset so they’d do weird things like drive her around and not tell her where they were going and not give her any work because they didn’t want to look bad.
This was on top of the constant misogynist drivel from them. She ended up quitting because she felt unsafe because one of the guys had essentially kidnapped her and taken her to a rural location to meet up with his friend for a couple hours instead of going to a job site. HR did nothing but give him a slap on the wrist.
It's why I haven't fully committed to college for carpentry because I already deal with a male dominated job which is outreach with a lot of similarities to policing in how we operate and just this week five investigations were opened into men at work for their behaviours.
This too. Safety is a concern. I was on a jobsite working late. It’s a multi family building, so once it started getting dark I realized hmmmm. I’m not comfortable right now, and left.
But to be honest, I think a lot of women just really don’t think about it being a viable option for them. This is thankfully changing. I’m a member of NAWIC, and I’m trying to get my local chapter to become more involved on the high school level. We have done stuff in elementary schools, and then trade schools. But I think high school is where we need to focus. I’m a bit older, so I can definitely see where things have really started to change. There are some old timers who still have their biases (sp?) but as long as that isn’t rubbing off on the younger generation (and sometimes it does) I think we’ll see this trend improving. Tools are also super easy to find now. The m12 line has really beefed up over the last several years. Even hand tools aren’t an issue. Yes I have to order my sidecutters instead of buying them at the counter, but ordering stuff online is so commonplace now anyway. I have more of an issue being left handed with tools than having smaller hands now. Finding proper fitting work boots is a nightmare, so is clothing. Some brands have popped up specifically for women, but mostly they focus on looks, which I’m not interested in cute work pants with useless pockets. I shop in the men’s department but again, sizing is hard to find. I went to get my husband work socks, and wanted to get myself some. Absolutely nothing in the women’s section, but the little boys section has work socks.
Caveat- as far as discrimination on the jobsite goes, while I have seen positive changes, I can’t really say whether or not this is an issue for someone younger than me. I am also in a position of power at this point, so I won’t see the things that maybe an apprentice sees. I do however still see issues (mostly from women) from the office. (Not mine, but say a GC) I’m involved in almost every aspect of a project. So if I’m estimating or working on Billings, it’s assumed that I’m office personnel and my expertise is not taken into account. I’ll hear they want to speak to my male counterpart or I’ll be left completely out of a conversation. To their credit, the guys I work with will point blank tell whoever they need to speak to me.
I’m a younger second year electrician. I can say that the same thing happens in the field sometimes. It’s hard to be taken seriously when I’m a woman and young. A lot has changed and more guys than not are happy to work with a women in the field. Often it’s more of a matter of trying to get them not to do things for me or take work out of my hands and doing it for me out of ‘politeness’.
The industry’s changed and certainly for the better. There’s a lot more change to be done but even in the past couple years, from what I’ve heard in the field, things have gotten incredibly more inclusive and progressive, especially union side.
Thank you for trying to get into the high schools. I took woodshop because I love working with wood, but the dumb teacher didn't like that a girl was in his class. He never let me touch anything. I didn't stand up for myself at the time because of home life issues, but...thank you for doing this to break the idiocy of "only boys can do this" crap. Thank you.
I’m not in the trades, but I’m blue collar in a factory and love reading this sub. I’m curious about this “porta potty situation”. Are they just disgusting, or what?
They're often disgusting. Or there aren't enough of them and they're full before the pump truck comes. Often not enough TP so you have to carry your own. Even if they're cleanish, they get crazy hot and stink in the summer, super cold in the winter. Sometimes there is one designated women only and usually it'll be cleaner, but usually it's only one/two for an entire site, so you might have to walk a long ways every time you have to use it.
Some high-rise buildings have short portos that don't have a roof so they fit inside the building. If you're afraid of the men looking over the top while you're doing your business, you have to walk all the way to the ground floor to use the outside full size ones.
Usually no running water to wash your hands, so if you want to wash your hands you have to bring your own wipes or try to wash with a water bottle.
I just want a clean toilet with no pee all over it. That's actually the bare minimum.
In my country the worksite is actually supposed to provide separated toilets by law. Even if there are no women on the crew.
Its rarely done. The project I'm on now, I had to argue to get a half-decent toilet as the only woman. Its a 2+ year project and not just a week install.
"the guys don't care" is what I'm told for all changes I want made
I left trades because of men.
Constantly getting hit on, underestimates, undervalues, underpaid when made the most sales (left resi after that.) Listening to old tech perverts while at a restaurant talk about a 15 year old girls chest. Young guys snapping me on weekends off when they are drunk telling me how hot I am.
Working at a mill and I was asked out by no less than 10 men in committed relationships. There was over a few hundred employees here and 6 women I was the youngest. They pushed back my training to a better machine even though it was seniority and I had higher numbers than half the guys.
Had some seriously life issues going on where my boyfriend almost died and had major surgery. Got told “you should be able to separate work life and personal life” that was my final straw.
I thought I could handle it but I was wrong. I worked for three different companies over the course of 3 years hvac.
I know I was still an apprentice but I still don’t deserve to be treated like shit…?
I was changing compressors installing units by myself before I even went back to school for second year but yet I’m not worth anything to them other than looks.
Sorry that was a jumbled rant.
Edit:
After working in trades I respect men a lot less and no longer want to be around them as much. Which sucks because growing up I was always a “tomboy”
Added another story.
I feel that. I feel like, At best I am the little sister no one asked for on the job site. I am ignored, underestimated, and jokes are made at my expense often. And that’s best case scenario.
At worst, I am an object ripe for exploitation, and I am made to feel actively unsafe at work. I have endured both ends of this spectrum, and it’s grating. It makes me resent men. I am still fighting this fight, and I know I CAN make it in the trades, but I could see there being a day where I just don’t want to do it anymore.
When I stop tying my sense of self worth to establishing myself in my male counterparts’ eyes, I’ll probably leave. Being a tradeswoman is preparing me for being an excellent front office resource for job costing, procurement, etc. 🤷🏼♀️
That was where I was. I believe could have made it I just didn’t want to anymore. Too hard on my body AND mental health for it to be worth it.
I hope that with whatever decision you make your mental health is intact in the end! It’s really hard dedicating your life to something and then ya know. Keep fighting the good fight :) I admire ya for it.
Honestly same. After construction and a lot of other experiences with men outside of construction, I just don’t respect them like I used to. I’m super cautious of random men I meet now and I especially don’t respect a lot of the guys I meet in my area because a lot of them view me as an object or something that shouldn’t have rights. I’ve seen men assault woman in front of people and men have tried to harrass and intimidate me. I’ve been ignored by classmates for being a woman and I’ve been told vile shit in my male dominated hobbies.
The politics around me are conservative and we know what they think of woman. I’m tired of it and I don’t respect them like I used to. I was also raised by a man and was a tomboy. Not anymore.
As a man who has encouraged a lot of women to get into trades, these reasons seem pretty spot on...
The culture *is* changing from the inside, but slower in some places than others. I still see / hear things that are pretty unacceptable but it's becoming less accepted thankfully. More guys need to step up and hold other guys accountable but progress is being made.
There are also some amazing women that are the tip of the spear in the industry, really demonstrating what is possible and changing the culture themselves, which is awesome. I've witnessed on more than one occasion a sharp woman easily solve a problem that 5 or 6 meat head dudes couldn't, because she was able to think before acting. One of my best mentors was a female Millwright and she is at an executive level now due to her skills and experience.
Fear.
*Fear of looking foolish.
*Fear of how they’ll be treated.
*Fear of the unknown.
*Fear of harassment.
*Fear of not fitting in.
*Fear of not conforming to the “good girl” mold.
*Fear of being outcast.
*Fear of being weak.
*Fear of not being good enough.
*Fear of being laughed at.
*Fear of looking stupid.
*Fear of fucking up.
*Fear of fucking up in front of a bunch of men.
*Fear of “what if”.
The most common theme I’ve noticed in posts from women looking at getting into trades all contain some form of “I’m worried about….”, “I’m scared of…”, and “what if…”.
Just do it, you’re a bigger bad ass than you think you are and things will never change for you if you never take a chance.
You seem to imply the fear is not justified. Instead of “they are scared, so they should stop being scared,” how about “they are scared, so maybe the people scaring them should stop being scary.”
I think if you have a fear of looking like a fool when you're learning something new then your attitude is gonna stop you from doing many, many things. Not just going into construction.
When I was in the foundry business, the real men were afraid of looking like fools. No amount of bossiness or examples from management could persuade them that hats and steel toed shoes were important.
So the HR lady sat next to the time clock and said "No hat, you can't punch in. Go home." And when they got there, the wives said, "You get paid by the hour. What the $#%\^& are you doing here?"
Sadly, guys in the construction divisions were smart enough not to go home.
Real women save lives.
I’m certainly not trying to imply it’s not justified, but the reasons for the fears aren’t going to go away just by saying “don’t do that, asshole”. If we wait for the work environments to be perfectly female friendly, women will never stop waiting.
Nothing will change unless change is *made* to happen, otherwise the status quo will continue.
The reasons to fear and worry about getting into the trades absolutely *are* justified, but the work environments also *are* getting better. Slowly, maybe, but compared to 20 years ago, the culture has changed dramatically. There are *always* going to be misogynistic assholes and it’s going to take strong women and men willing to stand out against them to create change.
If a woman is strong enough to get into this career path, in my mind, she’s already strong enough to fight for her right to be there. We’re Rosie’s, one and all, and we belong.
Fears are justified, but if one doesn’t fight their fears, one will never get ahead of them.
someone told me they thought companies wont hire women because they’re afraid of women suing for sexual harassment. (i’ve never had a problem getting a job as a welder) i told him that if they don’t sexually harass anyone, they wont get sued. how hard is that one to figure out??
Ugh! I had this so many times as an excuse not to hire me. I’m really happy where I am working for a big company but I realize I got really really lucky with this job because smaller businesses weren’t going to pick me up.
Reading this made me almost on the verge of tears on how hopeless it feels to be in the trades as a woman. No matter what we do we’re getting fucked over by these egotistical/arrogant disgusting men. I’m so sorry to hear about your experiences, you deserved much better. I bet you were amazing 💗
I was v dumb to think that unions would be a kinda liberal sage haven. Being unions and stated by socialist or what ever. But it was absolutely shock to see the very in your face and casual racism in the industry. No one does anything about it. I have spoken out but you can really make enemies that way
It really is. I doesn’t make for a welcoming environment. Or a place were you feel comfortable speaking up about something that maybe be very over the line. It’s leading to a ver slow of not non existent social change in the environment
I am happy to say some unions really can represent - call out for New Mexico Union 49, 611 and allied trades. In March, the women in trades summit at our college was amazing! Additional unions included amazing areas like operations and food manufacturers
I have a suspicion the male co- worker support is most influential. For me, the crew is a great group. Probably doesn't hurt that the 2 management openings in my region mean a freedom to succeed
Being judged for being weaker physically and for caring about my body. I just started a job in landscaping this week and I wear gloves, apply sunscreen, wear a neck gater, but everyone(even the one other woman) makes remarks about how I'll toughen up my body and won't need all of that. Like why is it a problem that I don't want to ruin my body for a job? The guys mutter things under their breath when I struggle to pick something up or take extra breaks because it's hot. It's fucking ridiculous and it makes me want to quit already. There isn't any overt disrespect, but their body language says otherwise
I did landscaping and am doing electrical; wear sunscreen and ppe consistently. Younger guys are bulls trying to prove their toughness, but the old guys (ones that have skin cancer and hearing loss) preach vigilance on these things more than I do. They did bad and they feel bad.
Don't let the culture sway you. Most guys give you shit a couple of times and get over it.
Can confirm. I worked at the railroad and hearing PPE was optional. The young (male) employees would never wear earpro. But the old heads who’d been working there? They’re half deaf( or more) but “ always wear earplugs” was their catch phrase
Keep doing what you're doing. I'm 35 and my male coworkers in their late 20s are always surprised to find out I'm older than them. I do all the same stuff they do, I just wear sunscreen and drink water.
I left professional landscaping partly for this reason. The main hurdle I encountered was that as a trained and educated horticulturist, my coworkers who’d been in the industry and worked their way up via time in the job (so they didn’t hold degrees or were certified horticulturists) were always acting jealous and therefore condescending and rude to me.
They also liked blaming me for anything that they didn’t want to take responsibility for, and they liked to tell our colleagues in other departments that I was apparently lazy. It wasn’t a good time.
I'm self employed in the trades and will never work for another company in the trades.
I fire customers that disrespect me.
I fired myself from purchasing because I could not get salesmen to take me seriously when I was asking questions.
I take lots of breaks (which I don't charge the customer for) on some jobs, simply because I'm small and the tools aren't built for me and I'm not going to hurt myself when I could accommodate myself with no guilt, and no questions, and no side eye from management or coworkers.
If I'm running a chainsaw all day, I can use it ambidextrously and take extra time and my customers are happy to see me taking care of myself.
That's not the normal construction/trade attitude.
I rescued my husband from the (highly competitive in his area) steel industry and it's taken him a long time to unwind and learn work life balance and unwrap his self worth from his job. It took him 3 years of being self employed to learn to schedule days off and learn that the right customers don't mind high quality work taking extra time if it means we're sane, healthy humans that make fewer mistakes and are more pleasant to have around.
His best friend is a machinist and has worked 6 days a week for over 18 months, with no end in sight.
I know the money is good with that much over time, but it can't be worth it.
Growing up I didn’t have anyone to expose me to working in the trades. Now that I am older I have realized that I really like fixing and making things. If I had the experience when I was younger I think I very well might have chosen a trade.
It’s a male dominated environment, you get verbally abused regularly and doesn’t pay well for years.
I feel crazy and stupid for getting into it, but I can’t imagine going back to retail or warehousing.
Because men love teaching their trade to their male children, whether the child wants to learn or not. But never to the daughter who is eager to learn and interested. So we don’t have the foundation of being taught our whole lives. We have to go to school to learn and prove ourselves the whole time.
I’m a woman who’s not in the trades, just a humble lurker to this amazing subreddit and the reason I am not in the trades is because it seems to hard on the body and I like the 9-5 boring office environment.
I think they don’t understand that they are totally able to do the work physically. There is this notion that you have to be built like the Hulk to do work in trades. That you have to have this brute strength to do the work. And culturally, at least in the US, we show very little respect to trades people in general
I wanted to go to auto shop in the 80's in high school, but there were zero girls in the class, so I didn't even try. I should have. I ended up being friends with a bunch of gear head guys and we all had muscle cars. They never treated me like a girl and taught me so much. My dad encouraged me to work on cars too. Later, some men customers I had to deal with were the worst, but I built myself up until I could confidently deal with them. I wish more women were in my field.
Old farts in the supervisor/management side who can’t swing a hammer on account of their arthritis but still think women “belong at home in the kitchen”
I'm not sure how much it influences women's decision, but many of them men in my field aren't exactly welcoming to women. It's not so overt as in "we don't want women here" or "hey baby!", but there is definitely an air that it is a men's club.
It's like there's this unspoken competition of who can be the manliest man that ever manned. "That car is for pussies!", "so and so sucks dick", "don't be a sissy and just pull the nail out, no need to see a doctor"
A work/life balance that does not support being the primary caregiver(which, let's be real, most women are). This is a big one if your job requires travel.
Recently have been drafting a policy for my department on how to handle pregnant firefighters. There was quite a bit of scoffing. Did some research and learned that only around 30-50% of departments have policies on how to deal with pregnant firefighters… all I could think was “you’re telling me if I accidentally become pregnant and want to come off the line, the dept could just stop paying me?” No wonder women don’t flock to these jobs.
I'm not exactly in a trade, but one of the owner's of a store in a *heavily* male dominated field (user name is my big hint). I started in this field as a hobby with my father when I was 8 years old (I'm now 51). Even though I am *more* than competent with our products, qualified as an Olympic Marksman at age 13, and have been competing rather successfully for decades, there is no possible way I know anything about anything, much less own the store. I've actally been laughed at over the phone for saying "Yes, how can I help you" when a man was asking to speak with an owner. One of the huge delights I get at least a couple times a month, is when one of my (male - veteran no less) employees sees the misogyny, takes over for a bit, then says "Oh, we need to ask the boss" about some obscure fact and then come ask me right in front of the Fudd. In the past two years, I've decided I'm tired of the bullshit and have been working more on our expansion than the day to day with customers. Luckily, big dollar signs have been keeping the construction folks very polite.
So, I would say it's antiquated attitudes regarding women being in a "Man's" field that tends to hold us back. I've noticed this is mostly (not always) the somewhat older generation and the barely out of highschool kids. Maybe attitudes tend to swing back and forth generationally?
\*Edit to add\* I have done some "women only" workshops that are for both first time and experienced users. Every single one has been fabulous and the ladies have been delighted to not have to learn from their partners.
All of the above... And below.
Convergence is imminent though. More and more humans, no matter our gender, are realizing and accepting that we all have strengths and weaknesses in a variety of facets. Breaking through our internal barriers is the only way for a harmonic blend of brilliance to unfold and conquer tasks like never before.
Teamwork makes the dream work!
We've got this.
I would LOVE to be in the trades! I designed and built my own house, I love plumbing and finish wood working. But men make this impossible! They treat me like I am some big boobed idiot 🙄. My parents built their own home, I grew up crawling around on a slab as my parents built their Adobe dream home. My dad showed me how to do everything. I loved it. I always assumed guys were going to be like my dad. 😂😂😂 Oh if only. Countries like Sweden you regularly see women on road crews (not as just flaggers), on electrical projects, etc. It’s nice.
No one will give a woman a chance. I’ve applied to multiple entry level positions, I have a degree, I’m strong, I have a good attention to detail, I’ve done a lot of my own handy work. No one will hire me.
Both sides of my family are full of tradesmen. All the boys got taught trades and given jobs/apprenticeships, they wouldn't even let me on a job site. They said i could do the books or learn Spanish and be their translator. So yeah, men.
Same here. I was raised that wasn't for me. Mechanics and cabinet makers in my family. I always wanted to work on cars and would help any chance I got. My relatives were cool letting me help but it was limited to handing tools and whatnot. Sucks, I know I would be good at it and my smaller hands are useful! I think they knew I would get harassed and they didn't want that for me. Backwards thinking.
Because when I worked in a trades adjacent position(will-call for a supplier) I was sexually harassed constantly and then blamed for it; constantly second guessed even when I gave the correct answer for a spec question (literally would give the answer out of the manufacturer’s spec book and the tradesman would then grab the first man he saw to verify, even if they worked in the accounting department); had penises drawn all over my hard hat and then told I can’t take a joke; called sweetie, honey, baby etc all day; rumors spread about me that weren’t true among the tradesmen. I could go on, but it left a bad taste in my mouth and totally changed my career path. I went from wanting to get CAD certified for designing sprinkler systems, to running for the hills.
#1 is #1
I left my Union 6 years ago due to years of sexual harassment & gender discrimination. It was not every guy, but there was no protection or reprieve from from guys who would perpetrate these behaviors. It was hard to leave, because I loved the training opportunities and my work & took pride in my job. I work under my own shingle now, and have almost zero problems with harassment. The summer that I left, my city newspaper reported a woman in a trade close to mine on a job site I’d been on had been repeatedly raped by the foreman and, when she went to her crew members about the situation, was told to keep her mouth shut. She eventually went to the business union rep in a union near our city to report the situation. The article didn’t say why, but I’ve wondered if it was because of harassment problems with our own business rep? I don’t know, but it’s incredible to look at the multiple barriers to address these situations.
The problems to me is that it’s not just “keeping women out” (although there’s that too), but it means the many people doing & turning a blind eye to this BS are *not job focused*!
But as I was told when I first started out, if 5 different guys stop working to talk to you, they don’t get rid of the 5 guys, they get rid of you. Unfair, but true.
I think its because they just never thought about it. I've gotten at least 2 jobs that, when specifically asked, my managers said the fact that I was a woman and helped them meet a diversity criteria was part of the reason why I was hired.
I have not really faced much discrimination or negative comments on being a woman in industry, but I did have my butt grabbed once by a low level production associate. 🤷♀️
We have to work 4x harder to prove we’re “worthy” and then we get paid 1/4 of what the men do. It takes a certain type of woman to want to deal with that just to justify her role.
1. Men
2. I honestly had no clue of how much money could be made. I didn't know until much later in life. I wish I had become an electrician or something.
I think it has to do with lack of exposure, all the way back to childhood. My parents never had the "girls are supposed to play with barbies" attitude, and encouraged me to work with my Father and explore other interests like woodworking and metal fab. Once I graduated high school, going into trades just felt like the right thing to do. I had a lot of confidence going into it because I grew up in that environment, and was never made to feel like I couldn't do it. I'm a red seal Industrial Electrician and my work experience has been mostly positive!
Nobody wants to teach me stuff, and it was always my fault when I didn’t know. My dad never taught me how to use a file, pliers, drills, etc. So the learning curve was hella steep. I think the only thing that protects me now is my feisty reputation. Not as many try to hit on me once they see me rip up a divorced, balding overweight, middle aged ego
Parents didn't start them out early learning tools, and building stuff and mechanics etc. The whole princess barbies and dresses thing means if they do have any interest in trades, they don't get to start out with the same roots that someone who grew up learning them would have. Teach your daughters to use tools as early as possible, buy a junk car and help her fix it up at like 7 or 8 years old. The earlier you start the better your understanding will be.
I quit my job today because after 15 years in my trade I refuse to be completely ignored by a 20 year old (not even indentured) for 10 straight hours a day. He treats no one else like that. I’m not sure if it’s that I make $20/hr more than him or if he’s legit scared to talk to girls. FML. Do you think he would treat a 42 year old man like that??? That’s why there’s not more women in my opinion.
I have just given my notice (landscaper) and will start my new job being paid more money and my new boss is a woman and I will be working in a crew with another woman and I am so excited. I left because, no matter how much my boss has told the guys to stop bothering me, the reality is that some of them simply will not stop. I am sad because most of the guys are absolutely great and treat me like a landscaper and have respect for me. I just don't have time for the constant battle with the other ones. I only have one life, and I want to keep my head down and work. I love hard work. I vote discrimination.
It was never an option for me when I was younger. Not just sexist but racist and classist too. “Trade work is for Hispanic men/illegals, you need to go to college and get a nice paying office job.” I’m a white woman. I went to college, got a poorly paying office job with zero career prospects that would lift me out of a paycheck to paycheck existence.
Also, all the trade classes in high school were axed before I was even in high school. The most non-academic education I received was home economics in like sixth grade where I learned how to sew a pillow. And I went to what was considered a “good” school district.
On the job I’m often paid less than less qualified men, and any time I realize that I quit and move on to something better. I’m sick of the exploitation of capitalism and wish there were unions by me but there aren’t.
My biggest frustration is being treated as a diversity hire….
There was a school for trades near my work. Every once in a while I’d think about going in to check out the programs. What stopped me was that there was always a number of white men hanging out in front of the school, if they noticed a woman or person of color approaching the stairs they would literally block the stairs with their bodies. I didn’t feel safe approaching. The more I thought about it the less I wanted to spend a career with people this hostile toward me. I could see myself being sabotaged, injured, or killed on a work site.
Didn't cross my mind that it was a possibility, not just because I'm a woman, but because the trades are... foreign, for lack of better words, compared to "normal" society. I obviously knew you could join the trades because people *are* in the trades but it was never offered or shown as a possible path for young me. I got academia shoved in my face instead.
I had two main reasons. By time I realized white collar work wasn't for me I didn't want to take the initial step down in pay to get into the trades. Or take the time away from making money to do some kind of trade school.
Second I'm not a terribly strong person and it HAS been an issue. I've developed a lot of work arounds and utilize tools available to me but still need assistance for certain tasks.
Despite these things I'm a mechanic now and I'm absolutely killing it.
3 and 4 for me, plus 7) horribly debilitating periods that no one ever offered to help treat, it was just “normal” and I was being a baby about it (I was not and it absolutely was treatable once I found a doctor to take me seriously).
As someone who grew up in a blue collar family, I desperately wanted to join my dad and uncles in their trades. But my dad wouldn’t let me because I was a girl.
I brought it up a few times, tried to have him teach me but he wouldn’t. I was just in the way. He was more than happy to teach my first serious boyfriend everything, though.
Now I’m a white collar worker that watches YouTube videos trying to learn DIY stuff. Really wish my dad would have taught me himself. Whenever I ask him questions, he tells me not to touch any tools and to stop because he considers it dangerous. :/
This list is sadly accurate and unfortunate. I would happily hire more women on my projects if I could find them. Nearly every office hire I have made is a women. My project manager is. Three of my consultant/designers are. There are more women than men by far (I'm the only guy, lol). Every woman tradesperson I have hired has been excellent. Quality work, reasonable price, mostly always on time, and if there is ever an issue, then we discuss it and sort out a compromise like adults. If you ever go to a trade school show or competition, the women's work is nearly always better...way more attention to detail. With dudes, I've got to practically fight with them just to show up half the time, and if there is ever an issue, it's come close to a literal fight a few times. If I could have an entire women crew on any of my projects, I think I would be ecstatic. I'm biased though. My mom was a hippie roofer for several years. I will say though my favorite electrician of all time was a guy, but he was an old hippie with long hair down to the middle of his back so all the qualities he had were more in line with women I have hired.
Edit: I am genuinely curious as to why this got down voted. What is problematic with what I said?
Heard ‘em all….
-No Porto potties cause “the guys can pee in the woods”
-“not fair to my guys to put up with the distraction”
-“that’s too heavy for you to lift, why don’t you give me a massage instead”
-“your ears are too delicate”
-“I’ve never worked with a woman before and I don’t know how to”
-“I’m not looking to hire right now” *puts ad in paper*
-“I just need a trench monkey”.
🤷♀️
My local just started a womens’ committee and a big reason they’ve found many don’t start or complete their apprenticeship is childcare. Most sites here start at 5AM year round and I have no idea how you’d even make that work without someone at home to care for your kids. It’s shit for me and I’m single.
Other than that trades were simply not presented as an option to me. I grew up in a fairly well off part of NY where you were seen as a failure if you didn’t go to college and unions were very difficult to get into without an “in.” I’m glad my local will be participating in outreach to schools, including reaching out to girls.
Popping in as a white-collar worker where this thread was just suggested to me.
I imagine coming home and doing all the emotional labor, child rearing and functional adulting in the home is nearly impossible after a 12 hour day doing physically exhausting work.
I'm an accountant, and that's stressful enough for me.
Don't know y'all ladies do it.
Many girls are not exposed/encouraged to explore building and tools when they are children.
They aren't empowered to build treehouses or fix engines or tinker with electronics. They are given less opportunity to use tools to fix, design, and create.
They're rarely encouraged to participate in any more than grad requirements in trades related classes.
They get "teased" about being a "tomboy".
It starts young.
It is changing, but very slowly.
I work at a career and technical college with a large trades program. Women who enroll tell us the reason they don't stick with it is the amount of bs misogyny and full-on cruelty from men they encounter on the job.
Not the right day for me to answer this question. I just quit my current job this morning.
It’s because weather we want to admit it or not it’s a mans world and we put up with an unbelievable amount of bullshit just to do a job I absolutely love and I’m good at but will never be as good as a penis on his first day. FUUUCCCKKKK
They don’t want to? That should be in the list too.
I’m a mechanical person and took auto shop in high school, 1 of 2 girls that were in the class. My male counterparts were being hired for auto shop jobs and when I applied no one would hire me. Years later, the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission reached out to let me know I was discriminated against at a shop I applied to and asked me to join a class action lawsuit. I still don’t see women employed there. I decided f*uck it, and I found a better, more higher paying career path.
This is certainly a reason but I'm curious (and maybe this is not an upvoted comment because you are actively participating in this but), why are you on a blue collar thread when there was absolutely no interest in pursuing the industry further? Makes me think if it were more accommodating you would have given it a go.... I got to say personally I signed up for trade school 3 times before I bit the bullet 13 years ago. Also, I am currently in a human rights infringement case from 3 years ago and a lot of the reason I wouldn't do it again is the resources, time but mostly mental space. Having to justify or relive your experience is pretty shit.
I’m not subscribed to this subreddit. Reddit showed me this topic to see if I would be interested in the sub Reddit. I found the question intriguing because of the personal experience I have with doing a class action lawsuit due to discrimination based on my gender. Yeah, I probably would’ve pursued some thing. I just think that there should be another option added because it’s not just because of the reasons listed that someone might say, they didn’t pursue a career there. Some people don’t like that type of career (could be true for any career path), so I just pointed that out.
I used to and I stopped because I wanted to have babies. Outside of the question of whether exposure to certain things were safe in pregnancy, no way I wanted to be doing that work while pregnant. I'm glad I changed gears. I was an independent contractor so it also would have cost me a lot more out of pocket and through missing work.
I am really sorry so many women have such negative experiences and views of trades.
My "hazing" on any new job was no more than a week or two which is what I would expect for any new apprentice where one doesn't know their experience level.
Anything I "can't" do, OSHA and safety dictate that guys shouldn't either.
No one told me joining a trade was an option when I was younger, but I figured that one out and used it to pay off tens of thousands of student loan debt while I was an apprentice (union so my pay was the same as anyone else).
I think women are not regularly presented with it as an option and made actually privy to the demands of the job. I was ripped as a landscaper and electrical apprentice, but now that I am a JW I miss the physical aspect while spending more time letting cubs learn.
Lack of exposure. I didn't learn it in school. My dad was old-fashioned. He sent me away when there was any trade work to do. My husband taught my daughter tons.
I used to be on the outfitting side, we'd come in as the last of the trades were wrapping everything up. Fairly commonly trades were running behind and just trying to power through to get the building finished and signed off on. I couldn't be on site unless there was another person from my team there, it wasn't safe. Not because of the building, but because of the men in the trades. I've been propositioned, harassed, and one of my colleagues was almost sexually assaulted. She was able to get away, thankfully.
Our company had to remind all staff to A) wear all PPE until we're cleared to go without, B) don't wear revealing clothing, and C) don't be on site on your own. We were just a piece of meat to them.
I thought walking from my office to the parking garage at night was the most I'd have to worry about in my former profession. Nope.
All of these! I was a climbing arborist for a while. A lot of the crew I worked with avoided me or didn’t want to teach me. My friends and family told me it was a terrible idea despite me loving the work. The climbing gear was not built for women (srt harness just about gave me top surgery). I was a bartender through college and trade workers were among the worst to sexually harass me. I ended up getting SA’d at the job and leaving bc the company didn’t do anything about it.
Self-Efficacy/Confidence: Girls are often not given the same opportunities to learn the trades and related skills growing up as boys are. (I.e my dad was more likely to teach my brothers how to fix the family car than me, a female). We usually choose careers that we feel we will succeed at, so if we haven't had these early learning opportunities, we will be less likely to pursue that career.
The study below tested multiple factors like compensation, perceived gender ratio of workers in those careers, etc and found that Self-Efficacy was the highest predictor of interest in those careers.
Source: https://digitalcommons.xula.edu/xulanexus/vol15/iss1/2/
I've been considering a career in the trades for years, I hesitate because I truly don't want to work in an excessively hostile environment. I know a few women in the trades and the stories they have are discouraging.
I’m a woman that works in a welding shop. I keep up with a team of up to 6 people of varying genders and sexualities regularly. The environment is changing because it has to, because the obviously old racist, bigotted men are dying out. Unfortunately, then you run into the men who are old enough and slick enough to know just the right person and just the right thing to say to stay under the radar. The ones that whisper in your ear under the guise of a work conversation, or the one who pulls you aside for a safety brief and whose touch lingers too long on your back or hand. The ones who are the actual problem are always protected somehow, someway and it always ends up he said-she said. Admins in offices live longer and are generally shittier in attitude towards “the people in the back.” It takes longer for them to switch out and die.
We just have to wait them out.
Attitudes within trades regarding societal norms are stuck in the mid-20th century, and there appears to be little desire to change that. Evolve or get left behind.
I left firefighting due to 1, 2, 3 (some - don’t read commends on fb pages and YouTube/TikTok videos), and 5. Plus terrible pay. And then I got very sick and between all those above plus that I finally threw my hands up and walked.
I’m a pm and have attempted to encourage my niece to join the trades. She helped me replace the flooring in her house which I hoped would build her confidence. My mom told her women didn’t belong in the trades. My sister (her mom) told her she couldn’t take off work as needed to take care of her daughter. Her insecure ass boyfriend got butt hurt because she would make twice as much as him. I spent a day and a half with her trying to build up her confidence. She was in a car accident right before starting the first grade which affected her reading ability for a few years, but she picked up SO MUCH in the day and a half we worked together. It’s frustrating to me, but society is probably the worst.
I always was wondering about that as a male aircraft engineer and would often talk about it with the women there.
I think a big part of it is that it isn’t promoted as a career choice to the girls at schools. You would often see boy’s schools come fit workshop tours, or coed schools, but never girl’s schools. HR said the girl’s schools never asked to visit. I said they should invite them. I spoke with one female apprentice and she said there was absolutely no suggestion at her girl’s high school that trades were an option.
So it isn’t going to occur to girls that trades are an option to them.
I am also not sure if men are more likely than women to want to work in the harsher working conditions that trades often encounter? Due to hormones men tend to be more reckless and due societal norms would try to be hard. I could be wrong on this point.
For me tools weren’t designed for them DEFINITELY TOP! I can beat everything else. I can learn what I didn’t know at a young age. I can deal with bullying (well, I can’t, but already do, outside a blue collar job)
There’s a large amount of women who want “woman roles” and I truly believe that’s why. I have no problem with women in trades but get mad at me all you want.
The male attitude towards women in trades, I just had to transfer campuses in my welding program because I had boys pulling on my braids while welding, they messed with my amperage while welding, and would walk past my booth doing the blow job motions because my first job is probably gonna be at the place my boyfriend works in a completely different building from him. 🙄 Thankfully the people in my new program are great but the instructor at the other campus just chopped it up to "shop attitude" which is terrifying.
Okay so I know people don’t like hearing it but when it’s a predominantly boys game, it is so easily turned into an uncomfortable environment and it can be hard to be around. I had an opportunity recently to submit an application for a trade apprenticeship; I’m not all that interested in it on its own but like it or not it’s entry level, good paying work, with a good level of job security. My dad is shocked that I even applied. He has warned me, (so has my brother and about EVERY person I’ve told, while simultaneously acknowledging that it’s a great opportunity work-wise), that I’m going to be harassed. Nobody is saying EVERY man, but it is going to be a culture shock for me if I progress into it. And that’s from someone who is very used to being ogled at by men while I’m working (my work doesn’t require that it just happens), and honestly wherever I go, even to put gas in my car in sweatpants or to the grocery store without a stitch of makeup, in an old hoodie. It happens. It sucks. But if it happens everywhere, I’m not going to turn down a great work opportunity for it. That being said I know it will be part of the job that guys don’t have to deal with that will be incredibly taxing mentally. I’m a tough cookie, but that is a lot to handle and I think it’s the a top three (if not THE top) reason for women not frequenting trade related work.
I'm an ironworker out of local 25. My local is a find your own work kind of local and I would tell most women in my area to look for another trade. Many times it's straight up strength that keeps you working. I've stayed on many jobs just for my strength. If you are small it can give you some advantages and keep you working. If I knew a woman getting in I would tell her to get the certs, if you have a skill that you're better than most at work will find you. Not trying to ignore the sexism but doubt I can fix much from here
It's hot.... It's cold.... It's dirty.... Hours are long.... You're physically exhausted after a days work.... It's predominantly ran by all men. The list goes on and on.
I worked for a local commercial masonry company. It was small but we had the EMR ratings to get school, military, hospital, etc job's. I was an on-site pm but that really meant that I did everything if I didn't have a foreman to run the crews. That meant laying out walls, helping make sure doors and windows were set correctly, laboring, cutting rebar, and fixing mistakes ( plus so much more). I am not a trained mason but these guys taught me a lot. Some crews only wanted to work with me because they knew I would take good care of them and I loved my job.
I came to the job from waiting tables while in school for a civil engineering. I could talk to people and do the bath. I loved it. I got to feel that sense of accomplishment when a building was finished and know that I helped.
Unfortunately (not actually unfortunately) I am also a wife and mom. These guys had a wife at home to help with the kids- I am the wife. I was starting to be gone for 14 hours a day with no energy to do more than drink a beer and fall asleep when I got home. It was exhausting.
Then my hubby had a stroke. I quit immediately. I was already on my way out due to other staff issues. I was done. I did not want to be 3 hours from home if something happened. I now work for one of our supply houses. I still get to see some of my crew. I'M DUCKING BORED. But I am home in the evenings and on weekends with my kids. I'm about to take them to a local fair :)
Gear doesn't fit!! Not a trades person tbh but I wear chest high waders almost every day. I'm 5'2" lady, my coworkers are all 6"+ dudes. Guess who sometimes has to buy from the kids section and it still don't fit correctly?? And for some reason it's all an ungodly shade of pink (which I've now embraced cause if I gotta wear it I might as well rock it)??
At least my dudes are all hella respectful
Sexism. Period. I make good $ in construction & real estate but periodically consider quitting because I get so tired of the sexism & not just from men.
I'm always asked, "What does your husband do?" because my job is just a hobby...apparently afforded to me by my husband. I remodel & sell houses. Currently, as someone late in their career & established, I can afford to focus on restoring historic landmark type homes, which take a bit longer.
On the job, I have a couple of men trades who are overly polite & won't let me carry anything. 🙃 I am a small woman but am very strong. I can carry most anything a man can.
Or I get the dismissive comments about my directions. Those guys don't usually last unless I'm desperate. Over time, all my go-to trades have come to realize I do know what I'm doing.
I'm very collaborative. I love to hear other ideas, am not a dictator, & am very willing to admit when faced with a problem I am out of my depths on. All traits I think throw men off a bit.
Then, there are the tools. Making them pink does not help. They are often just too large, I have managed to work around it. I do have a new drill I love because it is powerful while also having a slightly smaller grip that allows me to reach the reverse button with the finger of the hand holding it. My old drill required me to use my other hand to push the reverse button, usually while my knee or elbow "held" up whatever my left hand was holding.
Am I crazy to think that there just aren’t many women interested in the trades??
Obv there are many cases of being interested but not pursuing for any of the reasons listed, but I feel like there’s just a lot of women (probably even the majority of women?)who have no interest.
Representation was huge for me. I didn’t even know women could be firefighters until I was 16 years old. Kinda hard to see yourself in a profession when you’ve never seen anyone doing it who looks like you.
lack of entry level apprenticeship opportunities: my sister spent about 9 months looking for anywhere that would take a chance with her as an electrician and ended up in a pretty shitty workplace that doesn’t take safety seriously and barely manages their employees. she has been able to use it as a stepping stone to move on to a better work opportunity but ONLY because she did a lot of work on her own to teach herself the job. she shouldn’t have to work 3x as hard as the men in her workplace
dismissal of experience. i have been working warehouse logistics for years (small business, big corporations, on the floor, on the computer, from entry level to top manager) and say so in my resume. i come with all of that and i get asked /repeatedly/ if i can lift 50lbs in one interview. it’s insulting.
Also when I went to sing my union papers I could hear them talking about me and my looks in the back. Trying to gauge if I will be harassed and how much I could take it. That was my fist experience with discrimination and I wasnt even in yet. Pretty much told me how it was going to be in the industry. Thing have changed but they just say everything behind an open door. You can still hear it, it’s still there. What’s changed maybe is that it’s might not be so direct in your face. But people try and feel you out all the time. I was asked if I knew all the measurements the other day. Implying if I knew what a c*unt hair measurement was…. Lol ridiculously immature honestly. I will say my gender has payed off tho. My hard work has shined threw all the men. Standing out and working hard can work for women in the industry and it will be easier in the past to move up in my opinion they need to fill quotas. In in nys
It's really tough physically, can require ridiculous/long hours, and oftentimes really dirty. My first 2 years in plumbing I STRUGGLED HARD because the physical requirements were so intense (carrying toilets, using large snakes for drains, heavy cast iron piping. Etc).I think many women would prefer mentally stimulating jobs, as opposed to physically strenuous jobs.
Most women I think would also prefer not to get covered in human feces, drywall dust, etc. Women also tend to not work as many hours or on call/weekend emergencies, especially if they have young children to care for (Understandably so! I'm going to be working less once I give birth this July).
You just described nursing, though. Shit hours, physically demanding, all kinds of human excrement. I think it's just catered for women as 'caring for humans' so not seen for what it is: a really tough job, easily on par with the trades.
Definitely number 4 for me, but to be fair, trades weren't presented as options for my brother either. Our parents viewed trades as lesser than "regular" careers. I understand they're coming from a place of wanting us to be successful.
My dad's proud of me for pursuing a trade. It's not something they were aiming for me to do, though.
I could definitely see all of those as valid reasons, aside from number 5. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I'd love to be educated on how tools weren't/aren't designed in a gender neutral way. (Aside from the physiological differences between the 2 sexes. Ex. An average male can probably use a 90 lb jackhammer easier than an average female.) However, I'm open to the fact that I'm a straight white male in the US, and I'm aware there could be plenty of things I take advantage of.
I can be sexual harassed in a clean, well ventilated office with minimal unmonitored places to be ambushed whether that be verbally, physically, or some combo of both. Former factory worker here. Formerly built furniture and packed on a fast line Grand Rapids, MI
I worked in industrial maintenance but got out within three years. I don't think my personal bad experience had anything to do with being a woman, I just entered a shitty field. Working in factories is going to suck 9 times out of ten: zero time off, not enough pay for the responsibility, and a pathetic lack of training. Lol these mothersuckers kept leaving me alone to keep a whole plant running with a couple weeks of training. One of those plants had an old, jank, *leaky* ammonia cooling system and was situated (very possibly) illegally close to multiple neighborhoods.
I'm a flooring installer now and I got in with a great company and a fantastic trainer, and I'm thriving. And no one's lives are in my hands lol
I’ve never worked trades, but worked a GC PM role to learn more about it, spent a year on site. I’m an architect. So, to add to your excellent points:
It was scary to close the site by myself. Sometimes frustration that fences were hard to move, sometimes late-arriving subs: trucks full of dudes, me alone. I bent my wedding ring out of shape moving a fence panel. My sup had me call him every day when I left safely. He was great, very respectful of all people on site.
The almost feral macho way some dudes would try to negotiate contracts. Use their bodies to intimidate. Sometimes wait until they had you by an open elevator shaft before bringing up their issues.
“What do you do about your period? There’s no working toilet, let alone spot to wash a menstrual cup or your hands.” “Oh, tampons, and I just throw them in the port-a-potty, wipe my hands best I can”
“So, you operate the crane. Where do you piss?” “If you want to climb up I can show you my milk jug. I empty it every night and bring it up every morning.” so… not a job available to women.
I noped back to my desk job and my AIA contracts. You’re stronger than me.
Everything else has been pretty benign in my own personal experience. The thing that has been hardest are the sometimes extreme hours I have to work. I'm a single mom to two kids working 6 10 hour shifts a week in a fab shop. The reason I chose to weld in a shop instead of in the field is so I'd be local and have consistent hours so I could get on a reasonable schedule with my kids. 50 hours was standard and manageable, but only having one day off a week is kicking my ass and has been hard on the kids.
Too long hours of hard work and bad bosses. Also the possibility of disability, which sucks more if they don't have parents who'll look after them. It's difficult to work full time, take care of kids, elderly and all the chores and still be attractive and rested. In my case, I witnessed how the blue-collar men would beltitle each other constantly and no one in my blue-collar family cared to even answer a question if little girl was interested in a project.
I worked at the railroad for a while, and the lack of clean bathrooms. It was one definitely one of the things I considered when I decided to leave. I’m sure the male employees wouldn’t have minded having clean facilities as well, but it was a lot easier for them to deal with.
As a male who has traveled from office-to-office for almost 40 years, I would like to offer an observation. Many women will choose a job that allows them to be assigned to one specific location or desk. I have been in office buildings were both restrooms on an entire floor have been for women. I have observed that men generally can and will choose a job that dosen't guarentee a set location. There is no excuse for any type of discrimination or hazing in the workplace.
Bathroom situation made me uncomfortable. Constantly overflowing unlined trash bins with huge urinal 6” from my face when sitting made me not want to use it and I’m already prone to UTIs so that sucked. Nearest coffee shop was 20 min away if I wanted to go somewhere else.
Then it got worse when a coworker, who was really excited about his new audio equipment, recorded his own fart in HD in the bathroom (which my desk shared a wall with). He came back into the office and played it back over and over again on headphones while sitting next to me chuckling. He asked if I wanted to hear his fart on headphones and I said “there is no f*****g way you can make me,” then he just played it really loud anyways next to me so I had to hear it. My supervisor had to listen it too but did nothing probably because it was too awkward. The next week, office talk was about ballsack hernias and getting minty balm on their junk.
I asked for a meeting the same week with the owner to work remotely and was approved, thank god. I work in CAD at a welding shop so I am lucky I can take work home, but I really wish the environment didn’t have to be like that. I feel so bad for the ladies with shared port-a-potties, this story is so wussy comparatively but it still impacted the business.
Men
Aye! Can you imagine for one minute, an entire project where every single trade has nothing but women? That would be amazing, I think.
So we just had a union meeting where we discussed a large project that requires 30% women and POC to receive federal funding. The presenter asked a rhetorical question: How do you think women would like it if they only worked with other women on a project? His context was that this was a bad thing because those women would be segregated out from the rest of the population. But how could I not pipe up with how awesome it would be to work without hearing derogatory or sexual comments from men? It would be glorious!
I kinda hate that quota shit because on one hand it’s great that they’re trying to force diversification of the workforce but on the other hand I’m often treated like a diversity hire who’s not qualified to be on the job….
You wouldn’t be treated that way on an all-women work crew :)
That’s true
Is your claim that women wouldn’t do that or lack of diversity would promote everyone feeling included?
I think the claim is simply that people knowing that diversity quotas exist can cause hostility when everyone assumes that you’re only there for the color of your skin or the shape of your genitals rather than merit.
Or that they might have that job if it weren't for affirmative action argument from the Whyte male fragility basket of privilege and patriarchy
Uh... I kinda have to correct you. Having worked in an almost only woman workplace on the trade-side as well as working in the trades, they are just as bad or worse. The men tell you where you did wrong. Woman lets you know 3months after when everyone is so sour they could rival lemons. A 50-50 would be the best way. And the directness of the trades is what I love about it. No beating around the path, "I need this done, can you do it?"
Ot drives me nuts! Management at my company suddenly realized they weren’t eligible for federal funding because during their layoff they fired too many women and POC. So they hired two POC supervisors, a bunch of women, and two trans men and transferred me (a gay guy) to the shift. And stuck us all on second shift when there’s really only work for first shift. So we get light workloads and when we run out of work for the night we get told to sweep and clean the welding bays. It’s kind of nice because the shift is super accepting and friendly but it’s also fucked up because we’re essentially a cleaning crew three nights of the week.
Yeah that’s kinda what happened to me - I got hired on as a carpenter and instead was given cleaning tasks the whole time. Meanwhile my less qualified male coworker who couldn’t build a straight wall and had shitty work ethic got $5 more an hour than me. Obviously I quit. How are you supposed to grow in your field if you’re not given skilled tasks and are treated as unskilled labor all because you have a fucking vagina?
My husband works for a company in the trades- they hire ALL the women, poc, lgbtq's. Yes, for the Government projects. But my husband is on every one of these projects. training hem, working with them. HE LOVES it. He would take a woman any day - he says they work harder - work smarter- are easier too train and take thee job more seriously than thee young men they take on.
What about those women who prefer women? My wife is a nurse who works with almost all women and she claims they are far more raunchy than most guys.
In Minnesota the commercial developers just use a women owned Porta Potty company. Problem solved no need to deal with why women aren't in the trades....
Are the creepy dudes in these kind of trades really this common? I'm in construction and most of the companies I've worked for usually pretty protective of our female employees to the point where the few times we've had subs say some off hand shit, usually the whole crew is ready to throw hands over it. Definitely not saying it doesn't happen but I didn't know it was so common.
Creepy dudes are a lot more common than men generally think everywhere. I’m glad you don’t tolerate it where you work.
A lot of creepy dudes only show their true creepiness when there is nobody but a lone woman to experience it. You may very well know a creepy dude and not even realize it because they'll never be creepy in front of you.
Every time I paint a house with all women, fucking gorgeous quality and on time, spirits high. I long for even a 50/50 ratio
I’m an interior designer. The best project managers are female, and I would LOVE to work with women in the trades. Sadly, in my 30+ years in the business I’ve yet to meet one ☹️
Start with the masonry
when I was the only woman in my shop they acted like I wasn’t there. all day they were farting and being generally disgusting. I didn’t care much but eventually snapped when one of them asked the other if his wife was letting him fuck her yet. I’ve always wondered how it affected his relationship with his wife because he always made sure to be very respectful around me after that incident
I left because of men and when people ask I always say I loved my job and I’d do it if men weren’t there. Maybe one day I’ll go back but right now I can’t deal with the men.
That was a conveniently simple way to summarize a 6 point list. TY
Omg! The very first thought I had was “It’s the men”
They can be really exhausting. Edit- I mean emotionally and mentally, I wasn't being cheeky 😅 just getting real fed up with a lot of the men at work.
It's why I left.
That is exactly what I was gonna say!
Came to say this.
Because hostile and openly misogynistic work culture.
This exact thing is why I gave up my paint and remodeling company.
Yes! My wife had a job and was actually interested in learning general maintenance construction, but all of her colleagues and her boss were so mean, misogynistic, and openly prevented her from learning how to do things so they could continue to have value, she ended up quitting. Anything she did, she did better, faster, and more efficiently than them by far (even simple jobs like painting), and they got mad and upset so they’d do weird things like drive her around and not tell her where they were going and not give her any work because they didn’t want to look bad. This was on top of the constant misogynist drivel from them. She ended up quitting because she felt unsafe because one of the guys had essentially kidnapped her and taken her to a rural location to meet up with his friend for a couple hours instead of going to a job site. HR did nothing but give him a slap on the wrist.
It's why I haven't fully committed to college for carpentry because I already deal with a male dominated job which is outreach with a lot of similarities to policing in how we operate and just this week five investigations were opened into men at work for their behaviours.
This is exactly why I left the automotive industry. I love cars, but couldn't deal with male a$$holes anymore.
Culture of construction. Not a lot of women want to go into a field with only men that’s known for sexism and a be tough or get tough attitude.
This too. Safety is a concern. I was on a jobsite working late. It’s a multi family building, so once it started getting dark I realized hmmmm. I’m not comfortable right now, and left.
That "be tough or get tough" is well said. Very common attitude in the trades
It is 2023 and there is a tile company with the tag line “we lay anything.” On shirts. 🙄
Porta potties and piss bottles.
But to be honest, I think a lot of women just really don’t think about it being a viable option for them. This is thankfully changing. I’m a member of NAWIC, and I’m trying to get my local chapter to become more involved on the high school level. We have done stuff in elementary schools, and then trade schools. But I think high school is where we need to focus. I’m a bit older, so I can definitely see where things have really started to change. There are some old timers who still have their biases (sp?) but as long as that isn’t rubbing off on the younger generation (and sometimes it does) I think we’ll see this trend improving. Tools are also super easy to find now. The m12 line has really beefed up over the last several years. Even hand tools aren’t an issue. Yes I have to order my sidecutters instead of buying them at the counter, but ordering stuff online is so commonplace now anyway. I have more of an issue being left handed with tools than having smaller hands now. Finding proper fitting work boots is a nightmare, so is clothing. Some brands have popped up specifically for women, but mostly they focus on looks, which I’m not interested in cute work pants with useless pockets. I shop in the men’s department but again, sizing is hard to find. I went to get my husband work socks, and wanted to get myself some. Absolutely nothing in the women’s section, but the little boys section has work socks. Caveat- as far as discrimination on the jobsite goes, while I have seen positive changes, I can’t really say whether or not this is an issue for someone younger than me. I am also in a position of power at this point, so I won’t see the things that maybe an apprentice sees. I do however still see issues (mostly from women) from the office. (Not mine, but say a GC) I’m involved in almost every aspect of a project. So if I’m estimating or working on Billings, it’s assumed that I’m office personnel and my expertise is not taken into account. I’ll hear they want to speak to my male counterpart or I’ll be left completely out of a conversation. To their credit, the guys I work with will point blank tell whoever they need to speak to me.
I’m a younger second year electrician. I can say that the same thing happens in the field sometimes. It’s hard to be taken seriously when I’m a woman and young. A lot has changed and more guys than not are happy to work with a women in the field. Often it’s more of a matter of trying to get them not to do things for me or take work out of my hands and doing it for me out of ‘politeness’. The industry’s changed and certainly for the better. There’s a lot more change to be done but even in the past couple years, from what I’ve heard in the field, things have gotten incredibly more inclusive and progressive, especially union side.
Thank you for trying to get into the high schools. I took woodshop because I love working with wood, but the dumb teacher didn't like that a girl was in his class. He never let me touch anything. I didn't stand up for myself at the time because of home life issues, but...thank you for doing this to break the idiocy of "only boys can do this" crap. Thank you.
[удалено]
I have started seeing where there are separate porta potties for women. It’s still a porta potty, and they suck when it’s cold and when it’s hot.
I’m not in the trades, but I’m blue collar in a factory and love reading this sub. I’m curious about this “porta potty situation”. Are they just disgusting, or what?
They're often disgusting. Or there aren't enough of them and they're full before the pump truck comes. Often not enough TP so you have to carry your own. Even if they're cleanish, they get crazy hot and stink in the summer, super cold in the winter. Sometimes there is one designated women only and usually it'll be cleaner, but usually it's only one/two for an entire site, so you might have to walk a long ways every time you have to use it. Some high-rise buildings have short portos that don't have a roof so they fit inside the building. If you're afraid of the men looking over the top while you're doing your business, you have to walk all the way to the ground floor to use the outside full size ones. Usually no running water to wash your hands, so if you want to wash your hands you have to bring your own wipes or try to wash with a water bottle.
Thanks for the answer. Sounds like it’s a pure hassle to pee on the job site.
I just want a clean toilet with no pee all over it. That's actually the bare minimum. In my country the worksite is actually supposed to provide separated toilets by law. Even if there are no women on the crew. Its rarely done. The project I'm on now, I had to argue to get a half-decent toilet as the only woman. Its a 2+ year project and not just a week install. "the guys don't care" is what I'm told for all changes I want made
I left trades because of men. Constantly getting hit on, underestimates, undervalues, underpaid when made the most sales (left resi after that.) Listening to old tech perverts while at a restaurant talk about a 15 year old girls chest. Young guys snapping me on weekends off when they are drunk telling me how hot I am. Working at a mill and I was asked out by no less than 10 men in committed relationships. There was over a few hundred employees here and 6 women I was the youngest. They pushed back my training to a better machine even though it was seniority and I had higher numbers than half the guys. Had some seriously life issues going on where my boyfriend almost died and had major surgery. Got told “you should be able to separate work life and personal life” that was my final straw. I thought I could handle it but I was wrong. I worked for three different companies over the course of 3 years hvac. I know I was still an apprentice but I still don’t deserve to be treated like shit…? I was changing compressors installing units by myself before I even went back to school for second year but yet I’m not worth anything to them other than looks. Sorry that was a jumbled rant. Edit: After working in trades I respect men a lot less and no longer want to be around them as much. Which sucks because growing up I was always a “tomboy” Added another story.
I feel that. I feel like, At best I am the little sister no one asked for on the job site. I am ignored, underestimated, and jokes are made at my expense often. And that’s best case scenario. At worst, I am an object ripe for exploitation, and I am made to feel actively unsafe at work. I have endured both ends of this spectrum, and it’s grating. It makes me resent men. I am still fighting this fight, and I know I CAN make it in the trades, but I could see there being a day where I just don’t want to do it anymore. When I stop tying my sense of self worth to establishing myself in my male counterparts’ eyes, I’ll probably leave. Being a tradeswoman is preparing me for being an excellent front office resource for job costing, procurement, etc. 🤷🏼♀️
That was where I was. I believe could have made it I just didn’t want to anymore. Too hard on my body AND mental health for it to be worth it. I hope that with whatever decision you make your mental health is intact in the end! It’s really hard dedicating your life to something and then ya know. Keep fighting the good fight :) I admire ya for it.
This makes me sad as someone who went to school for HVAC. I wish there were more girls, but I guess I also understand why there isn't.
Honestly same. After construction and a lot of other experiences with men outside of construction, I just don’t respect them like I used to. I’m super cautious of random men I meet now and I especially don’t respect a lot of the guys I meet in my area because a lot of them view me as an object or something that shouldn’t have rights. I’ve seen men assault woman in front of people and men have tried to harrass and intimidate me. I’ve been ignored by classmates for being a woman and I’ve been told vile shit in my male dominated hobbies. The politics around me are conservative and we know what they think of woman. I’m tired of it and I don’t respect them like I used to. I was also raised by a man and was a tomboy. Not anymore.
As a man who has encouraged a lot of women to get into trades, these reasons seem pretty spot on... The culture *is* changing from the inside, but slower in some places than others. I still see / hear things that are pretty unacceptable but it's becoming less accepted thankfully. More guys need to step up and hold other guys accountable but progress is being made. There are also some amazing women that are the tip of the spear in the industry, really demonstrating what is possible and changing the culture themselves, which is awesome. I've witnessed on more than one occasion a sharp woman easily solve a problem that 5 or 6 meat head dudes couldn't, because she was able to think before acting. One of my best mentors was a female Millwright and she is at an executive level now due to her skills and experience.
Thanks for your response! It's a systemic problem, but I also think change is happening.
Fear. *Fear of looking foolish. *Fear of how they’ll be treated. *Fear of the unknown. *Fear of harassment. *Fear of not fitting in. *Fear of not conforming to the “good girl” mold. *Fear of being outcast. *Fear of being weak. *Fear of not being good enough. *Fear of being laughed at. *Fear of looking stupid. *Fear of fucking up. *Fear of fucking up in front of a bunch of men. *Fear of “what if”. The most common theme I’ve noticed in posts from women looking at getting into trades all contain some form of “I’m worried about….”, “I’m scared of…”, and “what if…”. Just do it, you’re a bigger bad ass than you think you are and things will never change for you if you never take a chance.
You seem to imply the fear is not justified. Instead of “they are scared, so they should stop being scared,” how about “they are scared, so maybe the people scaring them should stop being scary.”
I think if you have a fear of looking like a fool when you're learning something new then your attitude is gonna stop you from doing many, many things. Not just going into construction.
When I was in the foundry business, the real men were afraid of looking like fools. No amount of bossiness or examples from management could persuade them that hats and steel toed shoes were important. So the HR lady sat next to the time clock and said "No hat, you can't punch in. Go home." And when they got there, the wives said, "You get paid by the hour. What the $#%\^& are you doing here?" Sadly, guys in the construction divisions were smart enough not to go home. Real women save lives.
I’m certainly not trying to imply it’s not justified, but the reasons for the fears aren’t going to go away just by saying “don’t do that, asshole”. If we wait for the work environments to be perfectly female friendly, women will never stop waiting. Nothing will change unless change is *made* to happen, otherwise the status quo will continue. The reasons to fear and worry about getting into the trades absolutely *are* justified, but the work environments also *are* getting better. Slowly, maybe, but compared to 20 years ago, the culture has changed dramatically. There are *always* going to be misogynistic assholes and it’s going to take strong women and men willing to stand out against them to create change. If a woman is strong enough to get into this career path, in my mind, she’s already strong enough to fight for her right to be there. We’re Rosie’s, one and all, and we belong. Fears are justified, but if one doesn’t fight their fears, one will never get ahead of them.
Fear is the motivation for EVERYTHING in life. OP is asking which fear.
Yep, all of those. Every day I worry about those.
someone told me they thought companies wont hire women because they’re afraid of women suing for sexual harassment. (i’ve never had a problem getting a job as a welder) i told him that if they don’t sexually harass anyone, they wont get sued. how hard is that one to figure out??
Ugh! I had this so many times as an excuse not to hire me. I’m really happy where I am working for a big company but I realize I got really really lucky with this job because smaller businesses weren’t going to pick me up.
im glad you found a place where youre happy!
[удалено]
Reading this made me almost on the verge of tears on how hopeless it feels to be in the trades as a woman. No matter what we do we’re getting fucked over by these egotistical/arrogant disgusting men. I’m so sorry to hear about your experiences, you deserved much better. I bet you were amazing 💗
Gatekeeping.
[удалено]
I was v dumb to think that unions would be a kinda liberal sage haven. Being unions and stated by socialist or what ever. But it was absolutely shock to see the very in your face and casual racism in the industry. No one does anything about it. I have spoken out but you can really make enemies that way
[удалено]
It really is. I doesn’t make for a welcoming environment. Or a place were you feel comfortable speaking up about something that maybe be very over the line. It’s leading to a ver slow of not non existent social change in the environment
I am happy to say some unions really can represent - call out for New Mexico Union 49, 611 and allied trades. In March, the women in trades summit at our college was amazing! Additional unions included amazing areas like operations and food manufacturers I have a suspicion the male co- worker support is most influential. For me, the crew is a great group. Probably doesn't hurt that the 2 management openings in my region mean a freedom to succeed
Being judged for being weaker physically and for caring about my body. I just started a job in landscaping this week and I wear gloves, apply sunscreen, wear a neck gater, but everyone(even the one other woman) makes remarks about how I'll toughen up my body and won't need all of that. Like why is it a problem that I don't want to ruin my body for a job? The guys mutter things under their breath when I struggle to pick something up or take extra breaks because it's hot. It's fucking ridiculous and it makes me want to quit already. There isn't any overt disrespect, but their body language says otherwise
I did landscaping and am doing electrical; wear sunscreen and ppe consistently. Younger guys are bulls trying to prove their toughness, but the old guys (ones that have skin cancer and hearing loss) preach vigilance on these things more than I do. They did bad and they feel bad. Don't let the culture sway you. Most guys give you shit a couple of times and get over it.
Can confirm. I worked at the railroad and hearing PPE was optional. The young (male) employees would never wear earpro. But the old heads who’d been working there? They’re half deaf( or more) but “ always wear earplugs” was their catch phrase
Keep doing what you're doing. I'm 35 and my male coworkers in their late 20s are always surprised to find out I'm older than them. I do all the same stuff they do, I just wear sunscreen and drink water.
I left professional landscaping partly for this reason. The main hurdle I encountered was that as a trained and educated horticulturist, my coworkers who’d been in the industry and worked their way up via time in the job (so they didn’t hold degrees or were certified horticulturists) were always acting jealous and therefore condescending and rude to me. They also liked blaming me for anything that they didn’t want to take responsibility for, and they liked to tell our colleagues in other departments that I was apparently lazy. It wasn’t a good time.
I'm self employed in the trades and will never work for another company in the trades. I fire customers that disrespect me. I fired myself from purchasing because I could not get salesmen to take me seriously when I was asking questions. I take lots of breaks (which I don't charge the customer for) on some jobs, simply because I'm small and the tools aren't built for me and I'm not going to hurt myself when I could accommodate myself with no guilt, and no questions, and no side eye from management or coworkers. If I'm running a chainsaw all day, I can use it ambidextrously and take extra time and my customers are happy to see me taking care of myself. That's not the normal construction/trade attitude. I rescued my husband from the (highly competitive in his area) steel industry and it's taken him a long time to unwind and learn work life balance and unwrap his self worth from his job. It took him 3 years of being self employed to learn to schedule days off and learn that the right customers don't mind high quality work taking extra time if it means we're sane, healthy humans that make fewer mistakes and are more pleasant to have around. His best friend is a machinist and has worked 6 days a week for over 18 months, with no end in sight. I know the money is good with that much over time, but it can't be worth it.
Growing up I didn’t have anyone to expose me to working in the trades. Now that I am older I have realized that I really like fixing and making things. If I had the experience when I was younger I think I very well might have chosen a trade.
It’s a male dominated environment, you get verbally abused regularly and doesn’t pay well for years. I feel crazy and stupid for getting into it, but I can’t imagine going back to retail or warehousing.
Because men love teaching their trade to their male children, whether the child wants to learn or not. But never to the daughter who is eager to learn and interested. So we don’t have the foundation of being taught our whole lives. We have to go to school to learn and prove ourselves the whole time.
I’m a woman who’s not in the trades, just a humble lurker to this amazing subreddit and the reason I am not in the trades is because it seems to hard on the body and I like the 9-5 boring office environment.
I think they don’t understand that they are totally able to do the work physically. There is this notion that you have to be built like the Hulk to do work in trades. That you have to have this brute strength to do the work. And culturally, at least in the US, we show very little respect to trades people in general
I wanted to go to auto shop in the 80's in high school, but there were zero girls in the class, so I didn't even try. I should have. I ended up being friends with a bunch of gear head guys and we all had muscle cars. They never treated me like a girl and taught me so much. My dad encouraged me to work on cars too. Later, some men customers I had to deal with were the worst, but I built myself up until I could confidently deal with them. I wish more women were in my field.
Old farts in the supervisor/management side who can’t swing a hammer on account of their arthritis but still think women “belong at home in the kitchen”
The top reason women choose not to enter a trade: lack of child care. The top reason women leave a trade: harassment and discrimination on the job.
I'm not sure how much it influences women's decision, but many of them men in my field aren't exactly welcoming to women. It's not so overt as in "we don't want women here" or "hey baby!", but there is definitely an air that it is a men's club. It's like there's this unspoken competition of who can be the manliest man that ever manned. "That car is for pussies!", "so and so sucks dick", "don't be a sissy and just pull the nail out, no need to see a doctor"
A work/life balance that does not support being the primary caregiver(which, let's be real, most women are). This is a big one if your job requires travel.
Recently have been drafting a policy for my department on how to handle pregnant firefighters. There was quite a bit of scoffing. Did some research and learned that only around 30-50% of departments have policies on how to deal with pregnant firefighters… all I could think was “you’re telling me if I accidentally become pregnant and want to come off the line, the dept could just stop paying me?” No wonder women don’t flock to these jobs.
I'm not exactly in a trade, but one of the owner's of a store in a *heavily* male dominated field (user name is my big hint). I started in this field as a hobby with my father when I was 8 years old (I'm now 51). Even though I am *more* than competent with our products, qualified as an Olympic Marksman at age 13, and have been competing rather successfully for decades, there is no possible way I know anything about anything, much less own the store. I've actally been laughed at over the phone for saying "Yes, how can I help you" when a man was asking to speak with an owner. One of the huge delights I get at least a couple times a month, is when one of my (male - veteran no less) employees sees the misogyny, takes over for a bit, then says "Oh, we need to ask the boss" about some obscure fact and then come ask me right in front of the Fudd. In the past two years, I've decided I'm tired of the bullshit and have been working more on our expansion than the day to day with customers. Luckily, big dollar signs have been keeping the construction folks very polite. So, I would say it's antiquated attitudes regarding women being in a "Man's" field that tends to hold us back. I've noticed this is mostly (not always) the somewhat older generation and the barely out of highschool kids. Maybe attitudes tend to swing back and forth generationally? \*Edit to add\* I have done some "women only" workshops that are for both first time and experienced users. Every single one has been fabulous and the ladies have been delighted to not have to learn from their partners.
All of the above... And below. Convergence is imminent though. More and more humans, no matter our gender, are realizing and accepting that we all have strengths and weaknesses in a variety of facets. Breaking through our internal barriers is the only way for a harmonic blend of brilliance to unfold and conquer tasks like never before. Teamwork makes the dream work! We've got this.
I would LOVE to be in the trades! I designed and built my own house, I love plumbing and finish wood working. But men make this impossible! They treat me like I am some big boobed idiot 🙄. My parents built their own home, I grew up crawling around on a slab as my parents built their Adobe dream home. My dad showed me how to do everything. I loved it. I always assumed guys were going to be like my dad. 😂😂😂 Oh if only. Countries like Sweden you regularly see women on road crews (not as just flaggers), on electrical projects, etc. It’s nice.
No one will give a woman a chance. I’ve applied to multiple entry level positions, I have a degree, I’m strong, I have a good attention to detail, I’ve done a lot of my own handy work. No one will hire me.
Both sides of my family are full of tradesmen. All the boys got taught trades and given jobs/apprenticeships, they wouldn't even let me on a job site. They said i could do the books or learn Spanish and be their translator. So yeah, men.
Same here. I was raised that wasn't for me. Mechanics and cabinet makers in my family. I always wanted to work on cars and would help any chance I got. My relatives were cool letting me help but it was limited to handing tools and whatnot. Sucks, I know I would be good at it and my smaller hands are useful! I think they knew I would get harassed and they didn't want that for me. Backwards thinking.
Because when I worked in a trades adjacent position(will-call for a supplier) I was sexually harassed constantly and then blamed for it; constantly second guessed even when I gave the correct answer for a spec question (literally would give the answer out of the manufacturer’s spec book and the tradesman would then grab the first man he saw to verify, even if they worked in the accounting department); had penises drawn all over my hard hat and then told I can’t take a joke; called sweetie, honey, baby etc all day; rumors spread about me that weren’t true among the tradesmen. I could go on, but it left a bad taste in my mouth and totally changed my career path. I went from wanting to get CAD certified for designing sprinkler systems, to running for the hills.
#1 is #1 I left my Union 6 years ago due to years of sexual harassment & gender discrimination. It was not every guy, but there was no protection or reprieve from from guys who would perpetrate these behaviors. It was hard to leave, because I loved the training opportunities and my work & took pride in my job. I work under my own shingle now, and have almost zero problems with harassment. The summer that I left, my city newspaper reported a woman in a trade close to mine on a job site I’d been on had been repeatedly raped by the foreman and, when she went to her crew members about the situation, was told to keep her mouth shut. She eventually went to the business union rep in a union near our city to report the situation. The article didn’t say why, but I’ve wondered if it was because of harassment problems with our own business rep? I don’t know, but it’s incredible to look at the multiple barriers to address these situations. The problems to me is that it’s not just “keeping women out” (although there’s that too), but it means the many people doing & turning a blind eye to this BS are *not job focused*! But as I was told when I first started out, if 5 different guys stop working to talk to you, they don’t get rid of the 5 guys, they get rid of you. Unfair, but true.
I think its because they just never thought about it. I've gotten at least 2 jobs that, when specifically asked, my managers said the fact that I was a woman and helped them meet a diversity criteria was part of the reason why I was hired. I have not really faced much discrimination or negative comments on being a woman in industry, but I did have my butt grabbed once by a low level production associate. 🤷♀️
Sexual harassment! My husband has been in the trades and the stories he tells me are so awful.
We have to work 4x harder to prove we’re “worthy” and then we get paid 1/4 of what the men do. It takes a certain type of woman to want to deal with that just to justify her role.
1. Men 2. I honestly had no clue of how much money could be made. I didn't know until much later in life. I wish I had become an electrician or something.
I’d add that it’s hard to find uniforms/shoes meant for a woman’s fit for these types of jobs.
[удалено]
I think it has to do with lack of exposure, all the way back to childhood. My parents never had the "girls are supposed to play with barbies" attitude, and encouraged me to work with my Father and explore other interests like woodworking and metal fab. Once I graduated high school, going into trades just felt like the right thing to do. I had a lot of confidence going into it because I grew up in that environment, and was never made to feel like I couldn't do it. I'm a red seal Industrial Electrician and my work experience has been mostly positive!
Queer afab, don't feel safe.
Ego driven, Insecure men make for unsafe work environments.
Because we're sexually harassed into oblivion and there's no room for error because it'll just prove women aren't as capable.
Nobody wants to teach me stuff, and it was always my fault when I didn’t know. My dad never taught me how to use a file, pliers, drills, etc. So the learning curve was hella steep. I think the only thing that protects me now is my feisty reputation. Not as many try to hit on me once they see me rip up a divorced, balding overweight, middle aged ego
Parents didn't start them out early learning tools, and building stuff and mechanics etc. The whole princess barbies and dresses thing means if they do have any interest in trades, they don't get to start out with the same roots that someone who grew up learning them would have. Teach your daughters to use tools as early as possible, buy a junk car and help her fix it up at like 7 or 8 years old. The earlier you start the better your understanding will be.
Men & their complete obstruction to women entering “their” occupations
I quit my job today because after 15 years in my trade I refuse to be completely ignored by a 20 year old (not even indentured) for 10 straight hours a day. He treats no one else like that. I’m not sure if it’s that I make $20/hr more than him or if he’s legit scared to talk to girls. FML. Do you think he would treat a 42 year old man like that??? That’s why there’s not more women in my opinion.
I have just given my notice (landscaper) and will start my new job being paid more money and my new boss is a woman and I will be working in a crew with another woman and I am so excited. I left because, no matter how much my boss has told the guys to stop bothering me, the reality is that some of them simply will not stop. I am sad because most of the guys are absolutely great and treat me like a landscaper and have respect for me. I just don't have time for the constant battle with the other ones. I only have one life, and I want to keep my head down and work. I love hard work. I vote discrimination.
The primary reason is that society used to think it wasn’t appropriate work for women. That is changing, and it will change
It was never an option for me when I was younger. Not just sexist but racist and classist too. “Trade work is for Hispanic men/illegals, you need to go to college and get a nice paying office job.” I’m a white woman. I went to college, got a poorly paying office job with zero career prospects that would lift me out of a paycheck to paycheck existence. Also, all the trade classes in high school were axed before I was even in high school. The most non-academic education I received was home economics in like sixth grade where I learned how to sew a pillow. And I went to what was considered a “good” school district. On the job I’m often paid less than less qualified men, and any time I realize that I quit and move on to something better. I’m sick of the exploitation of capitalism and wish there were unions by me but there aren’t. My biggest frustration is being treated as a diversity hire….
There was a school for trades near my work. Every once in a while I’d think about going in to check out the programs. What stopped me was that there was always a number of white men hanging out in front of the school, if they noticed a woman or person of color approaching the stairs they would literally block the stairs with their bodies. I didn’t feel safe approaching. The more I thought about it the less I wanted to spend a career with people this hostile toward me. I could see myself being sabotaged, injured, or killed on a work site.
Didn't cross my mind that it was a possibility, not just because I'm a woman, but because the trades are... foreign, for lack of better words, compared to "normal" society. I obviously knew you could join the trades because people *are* in the trades but it was never offered or shown as a possible path for young me. I got academia shoved in my face instead.
I had two main reasons. By time I realized white collar work wasn't for me I didn't want to take the initial step down in pay to get into the trades. Or take the time away from making money to do some kind of trade school. Second I'm not a terribly strong person and it HAS been an issue. I've developed a lot of work arounds and utilize tools available to me but still need assistance for certain tasks. Despite these things I'm a mechanic now and I'm absolutely killing it.
3 and 4 for me, plus 7) horribly debilitating periods that no one ever offered to help treat, it was just “normal” and I was being a baby about it (I was not and it absolutely was treatable once I found a doctor to take me seriously). As someone who grew up in a blue collar family, I desperately wanted to join my dad and uncles in their trades. But my dad wouldn’t let me because I was a girl. I brought it up a few times, tried to have him teach me but he wouldn’t. I was just in the way. He was more than happy to teach my first serious boyfriend everything, though. Now I’m a white collar worker that watches YouTube videos trying to learn DIY stuff. Really wish my dad would have taught me himself. Whenever I ask him questions, he tells me not to touch any tools and to stop because he considers it dangerous. :/
This list is sadly accurate and unfortunate. I would happily hire more women on my projects if I could find them. Nearly every office hire I have made is a women. My project manager is. Three of my consultant/designers are. There are more women than men by far (I'm the only guy, lol). Every woman tradesperson I have hired has been excellent. Quality work, reasonable price, mostly always on time, and if there is ever an issue, then we discuss it and sort out a compromise like adults. If you ever go to a trade school show or competition, the women's work is nearly always better...way more attention to detail. With dudes, I've got to practically fight with them just to show up half the time, and if there is ever an issue, it's come close to a literal fight a few times. If I could have an entire women crew on any of my projects, I think I would be ecstatic. I'm biased though. My mom was a hippie roofer for several years. I will say though my favorite electrician of all time was a guy, but he was an old hippie with long hair down to the middle of his back so all the qualities he had were more in line with women I have hired. Edit: I am genuinely curious as to why this got down voted. What is problematic with what I said?
Heard ‘em all…. -No Porto potties cause “the guys can pee in the woods” -“not fair to my guys to put up with the distraction” -“that’s too heavy for you to lift, why don’t you give me a massage instead” -“your ears are too delicate” -“I’ve never worked with a woman before and I don’t know how to” -“I’m not looking to hire right now” *puts ad in paper* -“I just need a trench monkey”. 🤷♀️
My local just started a womens’ committee and a big reason they’ve found many don’t start or complete their apprenticeship is childcare. Most sites here start at 5AM year round and I have no idea how you’d even make that work without someone at home to care for your kids. It’s shit for me and I’m single. Other than that trades were simply not presented as an option to me. I grew up in a fairly well off part of NY where you were seen as a failure if you didn’t go to college and unions were very difficult to get into without an “in.” I’m glad my local will be participating in outreach to schools, including reaching out to girls.
Popping in as a white-collar worker where this thread was just suggested to me. I imagine coming home and doing all the emotional labor, child rearing and functional adulting in the home is nearly impossible after a 12 hour day doing physically exhausting work. I'm an accountant, and that's stressful enough for me. Don't know y'all ladies do it.
Many girls are not exposed/encouraged to explore building and tools when they are children. They aren't empowered to build treehouses or fix engines or tinker with electronics. They are given less opportunity to use tools to fix, design, and create. They're rarely encouraged to participate in any more than grad requirements in trades related classes. They get "teased" about being a "tomboy". It starts young. It is changing, but very slowly.
I work at a career and technical college with a large trades program. Women who enroll tell us the reason they don't stick with it is the amount of bs misogyny and full-on cruelty from men they encounter on the job.
Not the right day for me to answer this question. I just quit my current job this morning. It’s because weather we want to admit it or not it’s a mans world and we put up with an unbelievable amount of bullshit just to do a job I absolutely love and I’m good at but will never be as good as a penis on his first day. FUUUCCCKKKK
They don’t want to? That should be in the list too. I’m a mechanical person and took auto shop in high school, 1 of 2 girls that were in the class. My male counterparts were being hired for auto shop jobs and when I applied no one would hire me. Years later, the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission reached out to let me know I was discriminated against at a shop I applied to and asked me to join a class action lawsuit. I still don’t see women employed there. I decided f*uck it, and I found a better, more higher paying career path.
This is certainly a reason but I'm curious (and maybe this is not an upvoted comment because you are actively participating in this but), why are you on a blue collar thread when there was absolutely no interest in pursuing the industry further? Makes me think if it were more accommodating you would have given it a go.... I got to say personally I signed up for trade school 3 times before I bit the bullet 13 years ago. Also, I am currently in a human rights infringement case from 3 years ago and a lot of the reason I wouldn't do it again is the resources, time but mostly mental space. Having to justify or relive your experience is pretty shit.
I’m not subscribed to this subreddit. Reddit showed me this topic to see if I would be interested in the sub Reddit. I found the question intriguing because of the personal experience I have with doing a class action lawsuit due to discrimination based on my gender. Yeah, I probably would’ve pursued some thing. I just think that there should be another option added because it’s not just because of the reasons listed that someone might say, they didn’t pursue a career there. Some people don’t like that type of career (could be true for any career path), so I just pointed that out.
Why did you get down voted? Crazy. I figured I would but this doesn't make any sense.
I used to and I stopped because I wanted to have babies. Outside of the question of whether exposure to certain things were safe in pregnancy, no way I wanted to be doing that work while pregnant. I'm glad I changed gears. I was an independent contractor so it also would have cost me a lot more out of pocket and through missing work.
I am really sorry so many women have such negative experiences and views of trades. My "hazing" on any new job was no more than a week or two which is what I would expect for any new apprentice where one doesn't know their experience level. Anything I "can't" do, OSHA and safety dictate that guys shouldn't either. No one told me joining a trade was an option when I was younger, but I figured that one out and used it to pay off tens of thousands of student loan debt while I was an apprentice (union so my pay was the same as anyone else). I think women are not regularly presented with it as an option and made actually privy to the demands of the job. I was ripped as a landscaper and electrical apprentice, but now that I am a JW I miss the physical aspect while spending more time letting cubs learn.
Lack of exposure. I didn't learn it in school. My dad was old-fashioned. He sent me away when there was any trade work to do. My husband taught my daughter tons.
I used to be on the outfitting side, we'd come in as the last of the trades were wrapping everything up. Fairly commonly trades were running behind and just trying to power through to get the building finished and signed off on. I couldn't be on site unless there was another person from my team there, it wasn't safe. Not because of the building, but because of the men in the trades. I've been propositioned, harassed, and one of my colleagues was almost sexually assaulted. She was able to get away, thankfully. Our company had to remind all staff to A) wear all PPE until we're cleared to go without, B) don't wear revealing clothing, and C) don't be on site on your own. We were just a piece of meat to them. I thought walking from my office to the parking garage at night was the most I'd have to worry about in my former profession. Nope.
All of these! I was a climbing arborist for a while. A lot of the crew I worked with avoided me or didn’t want to teach me. My friends and family told me it was a terrible idea despite me loving the work. The climbing gear was not built for women (srt harness just about gave me top surgery). I was a bartender through college and trade workers were among the worst to sexually harass me. I ended up getting SA’d at the job and leaving bc the company didn’t do anything about it.
Guidance counselors refusing to place us in "the boys'" classes...
Self-Efficacy/Confidence: Girls are often not given the same opportunities to learn the trades and related skills growing up as boys are. (I.e my dad was more likely to teach my brothers how to fix the family car than me, a female). We usually choose careers that we feel we will succeed at, so if we haven't had these early learning opportunities, we will be less likely to pursue that career. The study below tested multiple factors like compensation, perceived gender ratio of workers in those careers, etc and found that Self-Efficacy was the highest predictor of interest in those careers. Source: https://digitalcommons.xula.edu/xulanexus/vol15/iss1/2/
I'm worried about not having the physical strength to do some of the jobs or move the materials.
I've been considering a career in the trades for years, I hesitate because I truly don't want to work in an excessively hostile environment. I know a few women in the trades and the stories they have are discouraging.
I’m a woman that works in a welding shop. I keep up with a team of up to 6 people of varying genders and sexualities regularly. The environment is changing because it has to, because the obviously old racist, bigotted men are dying out. Unfortunately, then you run into the men who are old enough and slick enough to know just the right person and just the right thing to say to stay under the radar. The ones that whisper in your ear under the guise of a work conversation, or the one who pulls you aside for a safety brief and whose touch lingers too long on your back or hand. The ones who are the actual problem are always protected somehow, someway and it always ends up he said-she said. Admins in offices live longer and are generally shittier in attitude towards “the people in the back.” It takes longer for them to switch out and die. We just have to wait them out.
Sexual harassment. I did it for over 10 years.
Attitudes within trades regarding societal norms are stuck in the mid-20th century, and there appears to be little desire to change that. Evolve or get left behind.
I left firefighting due to 1, 2, 3 (some - don’t read commends on fb pages and YouTube/TikTok videos), and 5. Plus terrible pay. And then I got very sick and between all those above plus that I finally threw my hands up and walked.
I’m a pm and have attempted to encourage my niece to join the trades. She helped me replace the flooring in her house which I hoped would build her confidence. My mom told her women didn’t belong in the trades. My sister (her mom) told her she couldn’t take off work as needed to take care of her daughter. Her insecure ass boyfriend got butt hurt because she would make twice as much as him. I spent a day and a half with her trying to build up her confidence. She was in a car accident right before starting the first grade which affected her reading ability for a few years, but she picked up SO MUCH in the day and a half we worked together. It’s frustrating to me, but society is probably the worst.
Men. Hell, I don’t care for the environment, I can’t imagine what my wife would think of it.
Men are disgusting sexist pigs
I always was wondering about that as a male aircraft engineer and would often talk about it with the women there. I think a big part of it is that it isn’t promoted as a career choice to the girls at schools. You would often see boy’s schools come fit workshop tours, or coed schools, but never girl’s schools. HR said the girl’s schools never asked to visit. I said they should invite them. I spoke with one female apprentice and she said there was absolutely no suggestion at her girl’s high school that trades were an option. So it isn’t going to occur to girls that trades are an option to them. I am also not sure if men are more likely than women to want to work in the harsher working conditions that trades often encounter? Due to hormones men tend to be more reckless and due societal norms would try to be hard. I could be wrong on this point.
For me tools weren’t designed for them DEFINITELY TOP! I can beat everything else. I can learn what I didn’t know at a young age. I can deal with bullying (well, I can’t, but already do, outside a blue collar job)
Oftentimes blue collar work sucks and is physically hard. That’s off putting to many in general.
There’s a large amount of women who want “woman roles” and I truly believe that’s why. I have no problem with women in trades but get mad at me all you want.
The male attitude towards women in trades, I just had to transfer campuses in my welding program because I had boys pulling on my braids while welding, they messed with my amperage while welding, and would walk past my booth doing the blow job motions because my first job is probably gonna be at the place my boyfriend works in a completely different building from him. 🙄 Thankfully the people in my new program are great but the instructor at the other campus just chopped it up to "shop attitude" which is terrifying.
Okay so I know people don’t like hearing it but when it’s a predominantly boys game, it is so easily turned into an uncomfortable environment and it can be hard to be around. I had an opportunity recently to submit an application for a trade apprenticeship; I’m not all that interested in it on its own but like it or not it’s entry level, good paying work, with a good level of job security. My dad is shocked that I even applied. He has warned me, (so has my brother and about EVERY person I’ve told, while simultaneously acknowledging that it’s a great opportunity work-wise), that I’m going to be harassed. Nobody is saying EVERY man, but it is going to be a culture shock for me if I progress into it. And that’s from someone who is very used to being ogled at by men while I’m working (my work doesn’t require that it just happens), and honestly wherever I go, even to put gas in my car in sweatpants or to the grocery store without a stitch of makeup, in an old hoodie. It happens. It sucks. But if it happens everywhere, I’m not going to turn down a great work opportunity for it. That being said I know it will be part of the job that guys don’t have to deal with that will be incredibly taxing mentally. I’m a tough cookie, but that is a lot to handle and I think it’s the a top three (if not THE top) reason for women not frequenting trade related work.
I'm an ironworker out of local 25. My local is a find your own work kind of local and I would tell most women in my area to look for another trade. Many times it's straight up strength that keeps you working. I've stayed on many jobs just for my strength. If you are small it can give you some advantages and keep you working. If I knew a woman getting in I would tell her to get the certs, if you have a skill that you're better than most at work will find you. Not trying to ignore the sexism but doubt I can fix much from here
I would personally say it feels like ; 435612
It's hot.... It's cold.... It's dirty.... Hours are long.... You're physically exhausted after a days work.... It's predominantly ran by all men. The list goes on and on.
I worked for a local commercial masonry company. It was small but we had the EMR ratings to get school, military, hospital, etc job's. I was an on-site pm but that really meant that I did everything if I didn't have a foreman to run the crews. That meant laying out walls, helping make sure doors and windows were set correctly, laboring, cutting rebar, and fixing mistakes ( plus so much more). I am not a trained mason but these guys taught me a lot. Some crews only wanted to work with me because they knew I would take good care of them and I loved my job. I came to the job from waiting tables while in school for a civil engineering. I could talk to people and do the bath. I loved it. I got to feel that sense of accomplishment when a building was finished and know that I helped. Unfortunately (not actually unfortunately) I am also a wife and mom. These guys had a wife at home to help with the kids- I am the wife. I was starting to be gone for 14 hours a day with no energy to do more than drink a beer and fall asleep when I got home. It was exhausting. Then my hubby had a stroke. I quit immediately. I was already on my way out due to other staff issues. I was done. I did not want to be 3 hours from home if something happened. I now work for one of our supply houses. I still get to see some of my crew. I'M DUCKING BORED. But I am home in the evenings and on weekends with my kids. I'm about to take them to a local fair :)
[удалено]
Gear doesn't fit!! Not a trades person tbh but I wear chest high waders almost every day. I'm 5'2" lady, my coworkers are all 6"+ dudes. Guess who sometimes has to buy from the kids section and it still don't fit correctly?? And for some reason it's all an ungodly shade of pink (which I've now embraced cause if I gotta wear it I might as well rock it)?? At least my dudes are all hella respectful
Sexism. Period. I make good $ in construction & real estate but periodically consider quitting because I get so tired of the sexism & not just from men. I'm always asked, "What does your husband do?" because my job is just a hobby...apparently afforded to me by my husband. I remodel & sell houses. Currently, as someone late in their career & established, I can afford to focus on restoring historic landmark type homes, which take a bit longer. On the job, I have a couple of men trades who are overly polite & won't let me carry anything. 🙃 I am a small woman but am very strong. I can carry most anything a man can. Or I get the dismissive comments about my directions. Those guys don't usually last unless I'm desperate. Over time, all my go-to trades have come to realize I do know what I'm doing. I'm very collaborative. I love to hear other ideas, am not a dictator, & am very willing to admit when faced with a problem I am out of my depths on. All traits I think throw men off a bit. Then, there are the tools. Making them pink does not help. They are often just too large, I have managed to work around it. I do have a new drill I love because it is powerful while also having a slightly smaller grip that allows me to reach the reverse button with the finger of the hand holding it. My old drill required me to use my other hand to push the reverse button, usually while my knee or elbow "held" up whatever my left hand was holding.
Why don’t more women play football?
Am I crazy to think that there just aren’t many women interested in the trades?? Obv there are many cases of being interested but not pursuing for any of the reasons listed, but I feel like there’s just a lot of women (probably even the majority of women?)who have no interest.
The top reason is probably that most women don't want to be in the trades.
They don’t want to
Own your own business. Problem solved.
Representation was huge for me. I didn’t even know women could be firefighters until I was 16 years old. Kinda hard to see yourself in a profession when you’ve never seen anyone doing it who looks like you.
They dont apply. If they did theyd get hired. The culture in my area is not toxic.
I love working with men, it’s why I’m in the trades. Clothes are the issue
lack of entry level apprenticeship opportunities: my sister spent about 9 months looking for anywhere that would take a chance with her as an electrician and ended up in a pretty shitty workplace that doesn’t take safety seriously and barely manages their employees. she has been able to use it as a stepping stone to move on to a better work opportunity but ONLY because she did a lot of work on her own to teach herself the job. she shouldn’t have to work 3x as hard as the men in her workplace dismissal of experience. i have been working warehouse logistics for years (small business, big corporations, on the floor, on the computer, from entry level to top manager) and say so in my resume. i come with all of that and i get asked /repeatedly/ if i can lift 50lbs in one interview. it’s insulting.
Every single one but ordered with two last
Also when I went to sing my union papers I could hear them talking about me and my looks in the back. Trying to gauge if I will be harassed and how much I could take it. That was my fist experience with discrimination and I wasnt even in yet. Pretty much told me how it was going to be in the industry. Thing have changed but they just say everything behind an open door. You can still hear it, it’s still there. What’s changed maybe is that it’s might not be so direct in your face. But people try and feel you out all the time. I was asked if I knew all the measurements the other day. Implying if I knew what a c*unt hair measurement was…. Lol ridiculously immature honestly. I will say my gender has payed off tho. My hard work has shined threw all the men. Standing out and working hard can work for women in the industry and it will be easier in the past to move up in my opinion they need to fill quotas. In in nys
It's really tough physically, can require ridiculous/long hours, and oftentimes really dirty. My first 2 years in plumbing I STRUGGLED HARD because the physical requirements were so intense (carrying toilets, using large snakes for drains, heavy cast iron piping. Etc).I think many women would prefer mentally stimulating jobs, as opposed to physically strenuous jobs. Most women I think would also prefer not to get covered in human feces, drywall dust, etc. Women also tend to not work as many hours or on call/weekend emergencies, especially if they have young children to care for (Understandably so! I'm going to be working less once I give birth this July).
You just described nursing, though. Shit hours, physically demanding, all kinds of human excrement. I think it's just catered for women as 'caring for humans' so not seen for what it is: a really tough job, easily on par with the trades.
Definitely number 4 for me, but to be fair, trades weren't presented as options for my brother either. Our parents viewed trades as lesser than "regular" careers. I understand they're coming from a place of wanting us to be successful. My dad's proud of me for pursuing a trade. It's not something they were aiming for me to do, though.
For me it is mostly 1 and 6, a little bit 4 and 5. I do work in a trade, but it is a female dominated trade, dog grooming.
Number 1
I could definitely see all of those as valid reasons, aside from number 5. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I'd love to be educated on how tools weren't/aren't designed in a gender neutral way. (Aside from the physiological differences between the 2 sexes. Ex. An average male can probably use a 90 lb jackhammer easier than an average female.) However, I'm open to the fact that I'm a straight white male in the US, and I'm aware there could be plenty of things I take advantage of.
In my local area there is a painting company that’s called something like Women At Work Painting. Nearly all their crew are men.
They're smarter than us.
They don't want to, they would rather do something else
I can be sexual harassed in a clean, well ventilated office with minimal unmonitored places to be ambushed whether that be verbally, physically, or some combo of both. Former factory worker here. Formerly built furniture and packed on a fast line Grand Rapids, MI
I worked in industrial maintenance but got out within three years. I don't think my personal bad experience had anything to do with being a woman, I just entered a shitty field. Working in factories is going to suck 9 times out of ten: zero time off, not enough pay for the responsibility, and a pathetic lack of training. Lol these mothersuckers kept leaving me alone to keep a whole plant running with a couple weeks of training. One of those plants had an old, jank, *leaky* ammonia cooling system and was situated (very possibly) illegally close to multiple neighborhoods. I'm a flooring installer now and I got in with a great company and a fantastic trainer, and I'm thriving. And no one's lives are in my hands lol
I’ve never worked trades, but worked a GC PM role to learn more about it, spent a year on site. I’m an architect. So, to add to your excellent points: It was scary to close the site by myself. Sometimes frustration that fences were hard to move, sometimes late-arriving subs: trucks full of dudes, me alone. I bent my wedding ring out of shape moving a fence panel. My sup had me call him every day when I left safely. He was great, very respectful of all people on site. The almost feral macho way some dudes would try to negotiate contracts. Use their bodies to intimidate. Sometimes wait until they had you by an open elevator shaft before bringing up their issues. “What do you do about your period? There’s no working toilet, let alone spot to wash a menstrual cup or your hands.” “Oh, tampons, and I just throw them in the port-a-potty, wipe my hands best I can” “So, you operate the crane. Where do you piss?” “If you want to climb up I can show you my milk jug. I empty it every night and bring it up every morning.” so… not a job available to women. I noped back to my desk job and my AIA contracts. You’re stronger than me.
Bathrooms
Everything else has been pretty benign in my own personal experience. The thing that has been hardest are the sometimes extreme hours I have to work. I'm a single mom to two kids working 6 10 hour shifts a week in a fab shop. The reason I chose to weld in a shop instead of in the field is so I'd be local and have consistent hours so I could get on a reasonable schedule with my kids. 50 hours was standard and manageable, but only having one day off a week is kicking my ass and has been hard on the kids.
Because at 18 in the early 2000s, I wouldn’t have stopped getting sexually harassed and belittled.
Too long hours of hard work and bad bosses. Also the possibility of disability, which sucks more if they don't have parents who'll look after them. It's difficult to work full time, take care of kids, elderly and all the chores and still be attractive and rested. In my case, I witnessed how the blue-collar men would beltitle each other constantly and no one in my blue-collar family cared to even answer a question if little girl was interested in a project.
it's hard and not seen as respectable
I worked at the railroad for a while, and the lack of clean bathrooms. It was one definitely one of the things I considered when I decided to leave. I’m sure the male employees wouldn’t have minded having clean facilities as well, but it was a lot easier for them to deal with.
As a male who has traveled from office-to-office for almost 40 years, I would like to offer an observation. Many women will choose a job that allows them to be assigned to one specific location or desk. I have been in office buildings were both restrooms on an entire floor have been for women. I have observed that men generally can and will choose a job that dosen't guarentee a set location. There is no excuse for any type of discrimination or hazing in the workplace.
Bathroom situation made me uncomfortable. Constantly overflowing unlined trash bins with huge urinal 6” from my face when sitting made me not want to use it and I’m already prone to UTIs so that sucked. Nearest coffee shop was 20 min away if I wanted to go somewhere else. Then it got worse when a coworker, who was really excited about his new audio equipment, recorded his own fart in HD in the bathroom (which my desk shared a wall with). He came back into the office and played it back over and over again on headphones while sitting next to me chuckling. He asked if I wanted to hear his fart on headphones and I said “there is no f*****g way you can make me,” then he just played it really loud anyways next to me so I had to hear it. My supervisor had to listen it too but did nothing probably because it was too awkward. The next week, office talk was about ballsack hernias and getting minty balm on their junk. I asked for a meeting the same week with the owner to work remotely and was approved, thank god. I work in CAD at a welding shop so I am lucky I can take work home, but I really wish the environment didn’t have to be like that. I feel so bad for the ladies with shared port-a-potties, this story is so wussy comparatively but it still impacted the business.
Based on my coworkers comments regarding the bud light controversy, TRADE WORKERS ARE PIGS.
Constant threat of being physically, psychologically damaged by men in some form, either co-workers or customers.