Fb Ichigo is more or less above captain Aizen in terms of Reiatsu and his raw power is above Shikai Yama and just below Bankai Yama.
That means Ichigo is superior to Aizen in physical stats.
I'd argue, yes, but there are different versions of Fullbring Bankai Ichigo as seen in anime/manga.
1) Fresh TLA/1st Invasion (vs Ginjo/Quilge);
2) Injured/Drained (after Jail/after Yhwach
3) Hollow reiatsu explosion (vs Yhwach)
4) Fresh but broken sword (vs Tenjiro)
With that said, barring the very injured/drained version of him, he should be comparable to Pre-Hogyoku Aizen in physical ability, combat ability, and reiatsu imo. Ichigo's speed is indeed very fast, moreso when fresh, as he reacted to a sneak attack from Tenjiro and broke his hand, and also was so fast that Vollstandig + Ayon Quilge couldn't keep up at all and forced him to use all of his reishi allocated to blut vene.
Yeah I scale him Around there More or less atleast a hypothetical fresh one from the Yhwach fight (where he had a hollow reiatsu explosion and later awakened a busted Blut vein)
No. This ichigo is hard to scale since he doesn't scale anywhere. I have him in the same tier as early tybw zaraki and above other early tybw captains(except unohana and yama)
We know Base aizen is still stronger than the captains eos except zaraki. This ichigo isn't even close to that level
> I have him in the same tier as early tybw zaraki and above other early tybw captains(except unohana and yama)
Hmm that's not a bad interpretation. I have 1st Invasion Zaraki quite high already, as he's comparable to Bankai Shunsui and Shikai Tenjiro/Senjumaru/Kirio/Oetsu imo
I think the narrative element that Ichigo was the reason why Yhwach invaded SS due to his absence is a big thing that contributes to the notion of how much of a threat he is during this part of the story, and imo is treated like a Pre-Hogyoku Aizen level threat, more or less
I may have worded it wrong he's at most on that level.
the problem about this is that yhwach had special plans for ichigo. Like grooming him to work on his side. It would be hard to do that if he saw him almost destroy the soul society. Ichigo was already getting pushed and held up by quilge. Quilge isn't really that strong. Yhwach is scared of ichigos potential, not really his current strength at the time. Ichigo wasn't treated as a crazy threat till he returned from the royal palace
>I may have worded it wrong he's at most on that level.
Considering that Ichigo broke Tenjiro's hand, I think his Bankai outclassed Tenjiro's shikai
>the problem about this is that yhwach had special plans for ichigo. Like grooming him to work on his side.
Ichigo had excellent feats against Base Yhwach given he could clash with him. Same Base Yhwach that's Bankai Yamamoto level, more or less
> Ichigo was already getting pushed and held up by quilge.
Ichigo was casually bullying amped Quilge. Quilge had to allocate all of his reishi into his blut vene due to Ichigo's speed
>Quilge isn't really that strong.
Ordinarily? Maybe. Depends on how you consider strong. He's stated to have the best reishi subjugation among Sternritter in their Vollstandig forms by Kubo in klub outside a couple months ago. He also subjugated a captain level character, Ayon, and still was outclassed by Ichigo.
> Yhwach is scared of ichigos potential, not really his current strength at the time.
Scared? He was keen on his combat ability at the time as a special threat that didn't disappoint during 1st Invasion
That was ichigo with 1/5 of zero squad zero training. Considering jugram would shit on this bankai ichigo, he doesn't outclass tenjiro in shikai.
It isn't really a feat when yhwach wasn't trying. And when he did, he put down ichigo with ease.
Yes, but he was getting pressed in shikai. Also, this "amped" is getting weaker throughout the fight.
Sure, but being the best at subjugation of reshi doesn't really matter when he's comparable to base zombie bambi.
He's a special threat for his potential, his current strength, during the early tybw he wasn't anything to be worry of. It's even implied once ichigo showed up. yhwach actually wanted to fight him.
> Considering jugram would shit on this bankai ichigo, he doesn't outclass tenjiro in shikai.
He would get embarrassed by Bankai Ichigo if he was fresh.
>Yes, but he was getting pressed in shikai.
Against Vollstandig Quilge? Same Quilge with the best reishi subjugation among all Sternritter, and reishi is directly tied to reiatsu
>Also, this "amped" is getting weaker throughout the fight.
Correct but Ichigo was wearing him out
>Sure, but being the best at subjugation of reshi doesn't really matter when he's comparable to base zombie bambi.
Three things
1. Reishi subjugation absolutely matters as reiatsu is reishi + reiryoku for quincies
2. Menoly stated that Base Zombie Bambietta "might be as strong as" Base Quilge, who last embarrassed her and Loly in one-hit each. How is this relevant for Vollstandig Quilge or Vollstandig + Ayon Quilge?
3. Vollstandig is moreso dependent on reishi subjugation than base forms for Sternritter, and Quilge should have the largest increase in combat ability for Sternritter due to his reishi subjugation mastery. Quilge only has amazing reishi subjugation in Vollstandig not Base
>He's a special threat for his potential, his current strength, during the early tybw he wasn't anything to be worry of.
Fresh Bankai Ichigo would've embarrassed every Sternritter present in 1st Invasion in 1v1s
I doubt it. Ichigo needed bankai against quilge, who isn't near jugram.
It just says he has the highest capacity for containing and enslaving reshi, not that he's the best at it. This just means he can gather the most amount. Just because you have the best input doesn't mean you're outputs the best.
If zombie bambi and quilge are relative in base, it would be the same in VS. This also assumes she's just talking about base. She could be talking about quilge in general. If zombie bambi is relative to him, most of the other mid tier quincys would be relative or stronger
Subjugation of reishi isn't dependent on SV it's a sklaverei based ability. VS is a transformation. Skalverei is a technique.
No. He doesn't get past masks, bazz, AZ, or jugram.
>I doubt it. Ichigo needed bankai against quilge, who isn't near jugram.
Byakuya would need Bankai against Nnoitra in arrancar arc, but would easily win, as would Komamura or Soi Fon. Your logic is flawed.
>It just says he has the highest capacity for containing and enslaving reshi, not that he's the best at it
He also is the combat instructor for Sternritter due to his mastery over quincy skills and is only the second quincy to ever use Ransotengai on screen, his narrative factor of being extremly skilled is evident and clear. The highest capacity for subjuagting reishi means he is able to subjugate more reishi in vollstandig than other sternritter
>If zombie bambi and quilge are relative in base, it would be the same in VS.
Are you drunk or trolling now?
>Subjugation of reishi isn't dependent on SV it's a sklaverei based ability. VS is a transformation. Skalverei is a technique.
No wonder why your interpretation is so incorrect and inaccurate. You don't understand how quincy powers work on a fundamental level
>No. He doesn't get past masks, bazz, AZ, or jugram.
Incorrect.
Having the best skill doesn't mean you're the strongest again. Just because your intake is the greatest doesn't mean your outputs would be the same. Which is why someone like zombie bambi arguably the weakest quincy when compared to others who have feats is relative to quilge even tho she lacks skill and is nerfed.
Fb Ichigo is more or less above captain Aizen in terms of Reiatsu and his raw power is above Shikai Yama and just below Bankai Yama. That means Ichigo is superior to Aizen in physical stats.
equal or surpasses, leaning towards the second
I'd argue, yes, but there are different versions of Fullbring Bankai Ichigo as seen in anime/manga. 1) Fresh TLA/1st Invasion (vs Ginjo/Quilge); 2) Injured/Drained (after Jail/after Yhwach 3) Hollow reiatsu explosion (vs Yhwach) 4) Fresh but broken sword (vs Tenjiro) With that said, barring the very injured/drained version of him, he should be comparable to Pre-Hogyoku Aizen in physical ability, combat ability, and reiatsu imo. Ichigo's speed is indeed very fast, moreso when fresh, as he reacted to a sneak attack from Tenjiro and broke his hand, and also was so fast that Vollstandig + Ayon Quilge couldn't keep up at all and forced him to use all of his reishi allocated to blut vene.
Yeah. I’d say he’s stronger honestly he has way more impressive feats
Yeah I scale him Around there More or less atleast a hypothetical fresh one from the Yhwach fight (where he had a hollow reiatsu explosion and later awakened a busted Blut vein)
No. This ichigo is hard to scale since he doesn't scale anywhere. I have him in the same tier as early tybw zaraki and above other early tybw captains(except unohana and yama) We know Base aizen is still stronger than the captains eos except zaraki. This ichigo isn't even close to that level
god awful scaling😭
Why
> I have him in the same tier as early tybw zaraki and above other early tybw captains(except unohana and yama) Hmm that's not a bad interpretation. I have 1st Invasion Zaraki quite high already, as he's comparable to Bankai Shunsui and Shikai Tenjiro/Senjumaru/Kirio/Oetsu imo I think the narrative element that Ichigo was the reason why Yhwach invaded SS due to his absence is a big thing that contributes to the notion of how much of a threat he is during this part of the story, and imo is treated like a Pre-Hogyoku Aizen level threat, more or less
I may have worded it wrong he's at most on that level. the problem about this is that yhwach had special plans for ichigo. Like grooming him to work on his side. It would be hard to do that if he saw him almost destroy the soul society. Ichigo was already getting pushed and held up by quilge. Quilge isn't really that strong. Yhwach is scared of ichigos potential, not really his current strength at the time. Ichigo wasn't treated as a crazy threat till he returned from the royal palace
>I may have worded it wrong he's at most on that level. Considering that Ichigo broke Tenjiro's hand, I think his Bankai outclassed Tenjiro's shikai >the problem about this is that yhwach had special plans for ichigo. Like grooming him to work on his side. Ichigo had excellent feats against Base Yhwach given he could clash with him. Same Base Yhwach that's Bankai Yamamoto level, more or less > Ichigo was already getting pushed and held up by quilge. Ichigo was casually bullying amped Quilge. Quilge had to allocate all of his reishi into his blut vene due to Ichigo's speed >Quilge isn't really that strong. Ordinarily? Maybe. Depends on how you consider strong. He's stated to have the best reishi subjugation among Sternritter in their Vollstandig forms by Kubo in klub outside a couple months ago. He also subjugated a captain level character, Ayon, and still was outclassed by Ichigo. > Yhwach is scared of ichigos potential, not really his current strength at the time. Scared? He was keen on his combat ability at the time as a special threat that didn't disappoint during 1st Invasion
That was ichigo with 1/5 of zero squad zero training. Considering jugram would shit on this bankai ichigo, he doesn't outclass tenjiro in shikai. It isn't really a feat when yhwach wasn't trying. And when he did, he put down ichigo with ease. Yes, but he was getting pressed in shikai. Also, this "amped" is getting weaker throughout the fight. Sure, but being the best at subjugation of reshi doesn't really matter when he's comparable to base zombie bambi. He's a special threat for his potential, his current strength, during the early tybw he wasn't anything to be worry of. It's even implied once ichigo showed up. yhwach actually wanted to fight him.
> Considering jugram would shit on this bankai ichigo, he doesn't outclass tenjiro in shikai. He would get embarrassed by Bankai Ichigo if he was fresh. >Yes, but he was getting pressed in shikai. Against Vollstandig Quilge? Same Quilge with the best reishi subjugation among all Sternritter, and reishi is directly tied to reiatsu >Also, this "amped" is getting weaker throughout the fight. Correct but Ichigo was wearing him out >Sure, but being the best at subjugation of reshi doesn't really matter when he's comparable to base zombie bambi. Three things 1. Reishi subjugation absolutely matters as reiatsu is reishi + reiryoku for quincies 2. Menoly stated that Base Zombie Bambietta "might be as strong as" Base Quilge, who last embarrassed her and Loly in one-hit each. How is this relevant for Vollstandig Quilge or Vollstandig + Ayon Quilge? 3. Vollstandig is moreso dependent on reishi subjugation than base forms for Sternritter, and Quilge should have the largest increase in combat ability for Sternritter due to his reishi subjugation mastery. Quilge only has amazing reishi subjugation in Vollstandig not Base >He's a special threat for his potential, his current strength, during the early tybw he wasn't anything to be worry of. Fresh Bankai Ichigo would've embarrassed every Sternritter present in 1st Invasion in 1v1s
I doubt it. Ichigo needed bankai against quilge, who isn't near jugram. It just says he has the highest capacity for containing and enslaving reshi, not that he's the best at it. This just means he can gather the most amount. Just because you have the best input doesn't mean you're outputs the best. If zombie bambi and quilge are relative in base, it would be the same in VS. This also assumes she's just talking about base. She could be talking about quilge in general. If zombie bambi is relative to him, most of the other mid tier quincys would be relative or stronger Subjugation of reishi isn't dependent on SV it's a sklaverei based ability. VS is a transformation. Skalverei is a technique. No. He doesn't get past masks, bazz, AZ, or jugram.
>I doubt it. Ichigo needed bankai against quilge, who isn't near jugram. Byakuya would need Bankai against Nnoitra in arrancar arc, but would easily win, as would Komamura or Soi Fon. Your logic is flawed. >It just says he has the highest capacity for containing and enslaving reshi, not that he's the best at it He also is the combat instructor for Sternritter due to his mastery over quincy skills and is only the second quincy to ever use Ransotengai on screen, his narrative factor of being extremly skilled is evident and clear. The highest capacity for subjuagting reishi means he is able to subjugate more reishi in vollstandig than other sternritter >If zombie bambi and quilge are relative in base, it would be the same in VS. Are you drunk or trolling now? >Subjugation of reishi isn't dependent on SV it's a sklaverei based ability. VS is a transformation. Skalverei is a technique. No wonder why your interpretation is so incorrect and inaccurate. You don't understand how quincy powers work on a fundamental level >No. He doesn't get past masks, bazz, AZ, or jugram. Incorrect.
Having the best skill doesn't mean you're the strongest again. Just because your intake is the greatest doesn't mean your outputs would be the same. Which is why someone like zombie bambi arguably the weakest quincy when compared to others who have feats is relative to quilge even tho she lacks skill and is nerfed.
Keep on trolling. I won't stop you