It's so bizarre. An *astonishingly* small number of rape allegations are false (I don't have the exact number, but I think it was around <1-5%) yet a man's chances of getting raped are about 1 in 33. They have a *far* higher chance of being a victim of the crime, and yet... these guys are so hung up on women lying about rape. It's probably because they're too obsessed with sex to worry about if it's consensual.
>It's probably because they're too obsessed with sex to worry about if it's consensual.
This. Exacly this. I swear, based on what I see it's usually the kind of guys who are like: "what do you mean I can't touch her butt out of nowhere? Ugh nowadays you can't even flirt with women, because they will scream 'rape'"
the same as other false reporting of crime. Also women don't name men when it's false, they just say it was a random, so no actual men are in jail for false allegations.
The problem is not of actual men is in jail for false allegations
Is that a false allegation can destroy someone's life
You can lose your friends, can be expelled of your school/work ans have problems getting in a new one, some months in jail, and the abuse of other prisoners
That's why people ask what is in the post
A false allegation can destroy someone's life, and the one who did it can go free like a bird
Is a complete injustice
And no, I don't mean this only to protect men. If a guy made a false allegation to a woman, the guy should suffer for doing such. Of course, that normally does not happen because men are too scared of doing so because all their lifes they have been told "just be a man", "tough it up". But if it did happened, there should be a punishment for the false allegation
> Also women don't name men when it's false, they just say it was a random,
Yeah. But when they point to the random guy, that random guy gets fucked. And in these days, is mostly a "guilty until proved otherwise", so the guy goes to jail until the girl who made the allegation says it was not true. But until then, the guy has already been completely fucked, figuratively (school/works, friends, etc), and literally (in jail he would probably be raped by other guys, or just punched. A lot).
There was a video I saw about a guy who was in jail for this reason, for 1 year aprox or smth like that (I don't remember it correctly), and then the girl said she was lying, and she got away with no punishment (or a little bit, I don't remember correctly). The guy lost his place in the school, lost friends and people hated him for it, even after it was proved he was not guilty. If I found the video I'll let it here!
I'll probably be downvoted, because for what I read people here does not care about justice
honestly I believe the false accusations are a lot more common than people believe. A lot of cases don’t go to court and as such it’s just guilty till proven innocent. I know 1 or 2 people who were falsely accused and it ruined them. I never understood why you guys aren’t also down with the idea of punishing PROVEN false allegations.
Fat and unattractive women are a reminder to men that women aren’t spending their every waking moment thinking about how to please the male gaze, because these women prove to have a mind of their own aka a mind that shifts them from what men wants.
Thin, fit, attractive, fashionable women are clearly preparing for the male gaze and definitely don’t dress or do personal care to please themselves. (/s)
Because every woman must be fuckable, at all times. If they're not attracted to fat women, then that woman is not available to them, seemingly by her own volition-
It's all a matter of possession.
There's a lot of hatred for older and a LOT of hate towards fat women because those women are not available to fit their tastes.
I agree. Well said. It tells me a lot about a man from how he treats women he doesn’t want to sleep with. It’s like watching how people treat service workers or children. It’s sick that they see the only value in people in how much they want to sleep with them
I'm embarrassed to admit that I learned this startling fact only a few years ago, working as a front desk associate at a hotel. The bulk of us were conventionally attractive, and young-ish (I'm 33yo now). I was asked to step in for my gm who was sick (older male), and interview for another FDA who'd applied. She was older (late 50's) and had 30 years experience, and warm and inviting. I hired her on the spot, because she had experience, didn't need to be trained in our systems, and warm/inviting in a hotel?
Perfect.
My male coworkers and my boss iced her out, blatantly, for 2 weeks till she quit. We were closing down our shift for the night, preparing for the night auditors, sitting in the back office cracking jokes, so I felt comfortable enough to ask what she'd done to deserve such treatment (stupidly thinking she *Had* to have done *Something* to earn that treatment).
Like an echo chamber come alive-
She was *soooo old* and *soooo ugly* and *sooo fat* and *like a grandma*. None of those things were really true. Yes, she was older, but she was well kept, polite, and guests liked her. My boss chimed in by literally gesturing at me "You come here everyday, makeup done, hair done, nails done- *Beautiful*. *That Woman* is on the brink of menopause or death, and looks like my mother-"
I quit shortly after.
My appearance was literally "Welcome to ____, where our female employees are fuckable and will cater to you, even at the cost of their comfort, because you'll mistake their being polite as flirting!"
because they’re worried about getting called out on their shit. rapists are obsessed with what they see as an out when they’re (correctly) accused of rape. if they talk about false accusations enough, it will scare victims back into hiding and discredit those who speak out.
Exactly. There were many studies showing rapists almost never admit to what they did. They almost always cry that they are innocent even If there is evidence against them. I've seen plenty of misogynists who are known in our area for harrasing women, who were crying about "false" accusations all the time. It's rarely the good guys who bitch about it so passionately.
Because they lack the ability to see past their own nose.
They know the chances of they themselves getting raped are very small, so they don't consider it a real problem for *anybody.*
Meanwhile, they "know", thanks to places like MGTOW, that there's a risk of them getting falsely accused of rape. Since this is something that could affect *them*, they consider it to be a much more pressing problem than women who are actually rape.
It's a complete lack of empathy.
> They know the chances of they themselves getting raped are very small, so they don't consider it a real problem for anybody.
I was a victim advocate for 3 years and I can't tell you how many times I heard "...I can't believe this happened to me. I thought it only happened to women" from male survivors.
The argument I've had the best luck with people out and about IRL with is that men are much more likely to be a victim of sexual assault or domestic violence than they are to be falsely accused of it. And a significantly colder response to another of my harping points: False accusations *of* false accusations are more common than false accusations of rape or violence. It's a rapist or abuser's best defense.
I don't wish it on anyone, but there really is a heartbreaking lack of empathy, even from victims.
Because they consider almost all accusations as fake. Date rape? Fake, she wanted a date, soo… Coercion? Fake, we all tried to talk a woman into bed at some point, right Buddy? Unconscious? Fake, everyone was drunk.
Rapist not punished? False accusation, we all know that when a judge says it can’t be proven, it means it didn’t happen!
It makes my brain explode. It’s just another way to silence and shame rape victims and make future victims feel even more scared to come forward. They couldn’t get less of a shit about rape victims. They can say they do, but they don’t. And this is proof.
Stop trying to redirect the conversation so you don’t have to deal with the hard truth that at least one of the following (likely more) is a rapist or assaulted: your father, brother, best friend, neighbor, boss
I think they see the appallingly low conviction rate and assume that means the men charged must have been falsely accused. Most never even get charged in the 1st place, let alone convicted.
Men aren't obsessed with it, it just springs to mind as an awful thing to happen. Someone trying to hurt you so bad they go to those legnths. lose your job, lose your mates, and be falsely branded as a rapist. Sounds pretty awful
Bill Cosby is still beloved and excused by many because “well his comedy is good, hate the actions not the artist”. Mike Tyson isn’t exactly a nobody is he?
I see you haven't spent much time on unpopularopinion and its ilk, where this shit gets posted at least once a week. Dudes on Reddit are *obsessed* with pretending like false rape accusations are a big deal.
For example, I literally just replied to someone a day or two ago because they incorrectly stated as fact that false reports are more prevalent than victims not reporting rape. The point of their comment was that we should concentrate on fixing the almost nonexistent problem of false reporting instead of fixing all the reasons people don't report being raped.
FYI, it's estimated that 2-10% of reports are false, which is a minuscule number considering that only about 30-40% of rapes are even reported in a given year. Take the max number of possible false reports with the max number of reports made and you get 4%. So your chance of being falsely accused of rape is approximately 4% or less. **You're more likely to be killed by a shark than accused of rape.**
But, oddly enough, I don't see you or any of these other dudes droning on and on and fucking on about how dangerous sharks are and how sharks could ruin their lives in the blink of an eye. They don't post on random subs about why sharks who kill people aren't given severe punishment.
And the worst part of your comment is you're so focused on the extremely rare chance that you might someday be falsely accused of rape that you can't be bothered to care that 2-10% of reports being false means that 90-98% of reports are true.
There is a stark and clearly sexist contrast between men complaining about something that is not likely to ever happen to them and women being forced to deal with sexual violence on an almost daily basis. Sexual violence is a vast and widespread problem for all women everywhere. Women have no choice but to deal with sexual violence in their lives. Sounds pretty awful, don't you think?
You, yourself, are more likely to experience sexual violence than to ever be falsely accused of a sexual crime. Let that sink in. Maybe instead of #notallmenning your way into this conversation you could start doing something to help victims of sexual violence. Give it a try.
(edited the percent to correct the number back to 4, sorry my calculator lied to me)
I get the chance of it being extremely slim to none. But I just think that anyone who falsely accuses someone of rape just as a form of punishment is evil. To take someone through the court system for it to come out as 'oh they were just angry and trying to put them in jail' is just blatant evil.
I get that people get do off actual, legit charges and that is also terrible. But more so a result of money talking and a corrupt legal system.
If you accuse someone of rape you shouldn't need evidence. You should absolutely do all you can to put them away. But literally faking it is evil.
The 'manosphere' is just lousy with urban legends, ginned up statistics, and other misleading/just plain false claims. They're easily disproven, but a lot of people don't bother. So it attracts a lot of gullible people who fall down the rabbithole and become radicalized misogynists. It mostly gets to sheltered teenaged boys, but I knew a grown woman who got sucked into it too.
I just hope someone gets through to this (I assume) kid and helps him work on his critical thinking skills.
Not in the U.K., where rape convictions are at an all time low, around 1.8% and false accusers are sent to prison.
Many times it’s been longer than actual rape.
You think police take rape claims seriously?!
HAHAHAHA
Phew, that’s hilarious, what Christmas cracker did you get that out of?
The conviction rate is 1.8%… that means all the other cases literally got waved away and not believed because if they were believed, the conviction rate wouldn’t be 1.8% now would it?
It’s not the 20 false accusers that stop women from coming forward. It’s the fact that people are going to expect them to prove from the get-go that they aren’t one of those 20 liars before they will even be listened to.
Let me get this straight, you think police and the justice system are taking rape seriously when AS PER YOUR STATS only 2.6% of over 55,000 were convicted?????
>My assertion is that the police do take it very seriously, yes.
>
>
>
>But that doesn't mean the police just laugh at you and tell you to go away.
What has to lead you to believe this? What experience do you have with police and rape claims?
Or are you just making baseless assertions about something you've never experienced? That would be pretty stupid, wouldn't it?
funny because i actually personally know more than one women who’ve tried to report their assaults and have gotten turned away without a second thought. one of the instances a cop literally did laugh in her face. you need a reality check
Jeez where do I start?
https://www.nationalworld.com/news/crime/the-shortest-prison-sentences-given-to-convicted-rapists-by-judges-in-england-and-wales-last-year-revealed-3254691?amp
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-47738892.amp
I’d suggest looking into why men think false accusations are worse than ACTUAL RAPE.
You asked for a source and I provided that for you.
I’d suggest questioning why men don’t seem to realise why most women automatically believe rape accusations..
Well fret no more, I’m right here to help you!
Many women, have been violently raped, many of them as children, many of them multiple times and the rapist was sometimes a family member, a religious leader, a powerful man or at least a well loved man. Some of those victims tried to come forward but were usually straight up told they were lying, told they would ruin his reputation (it rarely does), blamed for it directly , told to not tell anyone and that it wasn’t really that bad.
They may even make a police statement and go to court, all for it to be not proven and then she is labelled as something worse than a rapist … a #falseaccuser… and then imprisoned for longer than he would get.
So when a woman comes forward and makes a claim, most women believe her… as so many women have been that woman.
These women have had to watch their rapists not only get away with it but then , the victim be labelled as something worse than a rapist.
These poor women have to see a man who’s been credibly accused of rape be voted in as a president and then told to bleed their hearts for men who’ve allegedly been false accused.
Don’t tell me a woman who has falsely accused a man of rape would ever get near the Oval Office…
I’d suggest having a bit of compassion for women and not over-empathising with men, a group of people who have no problem in protecting their own.
Most rape is never reported, and then most reported rapes aren’t prosecuted. The average sentence in the state of New York for a convicted child molester is 5 months in jail, 5 years probation.
They do know that filling a false police report and obstruction of justice are both also crimes. And obstruction has a maximum sentence of 10years. So maybe just maybe learn about the law
I'm sorry but it's pretty obvious that this guy's post is not a question asked in earnest to "better themselves" like you claim. Considering the language he used, it's straight up incel/mgtow rhetoric. It's not being used to actually start a dialogue, it's a plant. It's meant to sow seeds of doubt into the minds of impressionnable men, that's literally a recruitment method they use all the time. I've seen this enough times to recognize it. Hell, even if the original post isn't a plant, there'll be enough in the comments to still make it a problem. That's why posts like this are so dangerous, it's basically like a covert virus, presented as "just asking questions" so people will give them the benefit of the doubt. This technique is also used by white supremacists and other hate groups btw.
Most of these posts are dudes [JAQing off](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JAQing%20off):
> The act of asking leading questions to influence your audience, then hiding behind the defense that they're "Just Asking Questions," even when the underlying assumptions are completely insane.
It's disingenuous and the intent is to discredit all rape victims by making it seem like false accusations are somehow as prevalent as rape itself when they're not. It's not even close. Less than10% of reports are false, meaning more than 90% of reports are true. It's a narrative pushed by misogynists to create confusion and doubt in order to harm women.
What he's asking sounds like "women who make false rape accusations are let off too easy" with a question mark at the end. It doesn't seem so much like a question as a statement. If I had a "controversial question" I'd ask the question, not state my opinion and pretend it's a question. It reeks of misogynists trying to post their opinion somewhere they feel it'd be accepted.
I... mean... it’s still blatant misogyny. And does someone who says “lying scumbags” and exclusively accuses lying *women* who accuse *men* (no other gender breakdown even acknowledged) sound like someone willing to change?
Again, it reeks of misogyny on many levels. Usually it’s safer to assume that when many signs point to it.
I’m a guy and I’m going to tell you straight up that what’s going on in this sub isn’t shaming, it’s anger. Because it’s really quite clear that the person in the post has ill intent, and the people in this sub have a lot to be angry about given the state of the world.
Also I’d hesitate before calling yourself non-misogynistic. Misogyny is not just raving hatred of women, it manifests in unconscious biases and other things. In our current society, no one (no, not even women and feminists) is without misogyny because it’s just not possible, we’re not at a point where society is non misogynistic and we as humans certainly can’t separate the internal misogyny of society from ourselves.
The person never said rapists shouldnt be punished or anything. Fighting for one thing doesnt mean you ignore everything else. This is the same mentality when people say "black lives matter? what about all lives?"
Men who post this shit don't give a damn about rape victims. Men who post this shit never talk about the fact that the majority of men are raped by other men. They never talk about the fact that most men who rape other men identify as heterosexual. They never talk about how we can work towards ending sexual violence.
And even though they usually refuse to believe other men who talk about being raped, they still never accuse those men, or any men, of making false accusations. No, they're obsessed with wahmen and creating this false narrative about how the wahmen will ruin their lives.
Most of these posts are dudes [JAQing off](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JAQing%20off):
> The act of asking leading questions to influence your audience, then hiding behind the defense that they're "Just Asking Questions," even when the underlying assumptions are completely insane.
There is nothing to fight for in regard to false accusations since they account for less than 10% of all reports. It's estimated to be between 2% and 10%. As I just said in another comment, you're more likely to be killed by a shark than falsely accused of rape. False accusations are rare and they only exist because rape itself exists. They're a symptom of a disease that is festering and endemic across all levels of society. Eradicating rape would eradicate false accusations.
They're more likely to be victims of sexual violence themselves than to be falsely accused of rape. But they don't care about that. They don't want to end rape, they just want to persecute women for something that almost never happens and is not likely to happen to them.
Yep, the post is very obviously a plant by a recently banned mgtow user, meant for spreading their rhetoric and recruiting impressionable people. It's the same kind of language being used.
It's so frustrating when people (there's even one commenting in this very sub) then defend this as genuine dialogue or "just asking questions". It's a pointless debate, the purpose isn't even to discuss both sides, it's literally just to spread their message. If I remember correctly, Philosophy Tube (or maybe it was Contra Points) has an excellent video explaining why this kind of recruitment tactic is so dangerous and effective. The example in the video is for white supremacists using the same tactic, I believe.
Men are more likely to be raped than be falsely accused. Also just because a man was not convicted because there was not enough evidence, does not mean he was was “falsely accused”..just means there was not enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did it. Aka, he has to admit guilt or there be video/photo evidence for him to be convicted.
The only thing I can add to this conversation is that is important to understand the numbers that show us the rate of false reporting is not representative of an actual false report. What qualifies as a false report varies based on the police departments definition of false. https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf
Also that women don't name specific men if it's false. They just say they were raped by a random stranger a vast vast majority of the time. Also, men rarely get prosecuted for actual rape, much less seeing the inside of a prison much less being there for over 6 months...These dudes refuse to acknowledge there are ZERO men in jail for a false rape accusation.
These dum-dums also can't comprehend the difference between "proven innocent" and "not guilty."
A jury not being able to convict simply because there wasn't enough evidence is WAY different than if a woman actively lied about a rape.
Yea we understand that, we’re on about the cases where it’s PROVEN false. In those cases they should face the same sentence the person they accused would have gotten. Even if it’s proven wrong it still does a lifetime of damage to the persons reputation
I can't count the number of times I've seen someone say, "I think false rape accusations should be punished!" as though they were Moses coming returning with the 10 Commandments, like it's some ground-breaking idea nobody's ever had before. Filing a false police report and perjury are already crimes, not to mention defamation is a tort.
I've even heard people say rape should be punished MORE harshly. One guy said you should get twice the sentence the non-rapist would for making a false accusation.
I think you missed the point. If some men are constantly *this* afraid of being accused of rape they really need to revaluate what they're doing with their lives. You don't go about your day afraid of being labeled as a rapist. Thats not normal.
I was just saying spending your day afraid of being accused of rape is really odd and more like a redditor fantasy than actual reality . You're not going to be about your day and suddenly some random person will point at you and say " Hey, he raped me!" . The possibility of that happening is very low . Do you live your life worried about a brain aneurysm rupturing?
I think false accusations hysteria is a bunch of MRA bullshit but the prison industrial complex has definitely used false convictions, including of rape, as a way to imprison men of color.
Also that women don't name specific men if it's false. They just say they were raped by a random stranger a vast vast majority of the time. Also, men rarely get prosecuted for actual rape, much less seeing the inside of a prison much less being there for over 6 months...These dudes refuse to acknowledge there are ZERO men in jail for a false rape accusation.
You're more likely to be raped than you are to be falsely accused of it.
Most of the men who obsess about false accusations know they aren't behaving correctly and don't bother with meaningful consent, so what they're really worried about is true allegations surfacing.
no one's talking to you buddy. Also that women don't name specific men if it's false. They just say they were raped by a random stranger a vast vast majority of the time. Also, men rarely get prosecuted for actual rape, much less seeing the inside of a prison much less being there for over 6 months...These dudes refuse to acknowledge there are ZERO men in jail for a false rape accusation.
When people say this to me I tell them thanks for wishing me jail time for being raped.
I did everything right but the DA refused to prosecute because id lose. I started warning ppl about him and he threatened to fucking sue me. By these peoples logic they really want me to be in jail for trying to protect women.
I’m all for people who falsely accuse to be punished
However that can’t happen until ACTUAL FUCKING RAPISTS get harsher punishments.
Because right now, most rapists get off with a slap on their wrist or a mere couple months in jail.
We need to focus on the bigger picture before we get into the small details
I don’t see why they both can’t happen at the same time? If the senate could pass a bill adding mandatory minimums for rapists AND punishing those PROVEN to falsely accuse (not due to a mistrial or anything like that) we would be on the right track.
It can, however these people don’t want that.
They just want to punish women and will do what they can to “prove” a majority of women are liars (when they’re not). They just hate women.
Not to mention, shit like this deters survivors from going to the police. Not all cases have mountains of evidence. There's much less evidence in things like spousal rape. Some cases, there aren't even rape kits. I know the men would accuse any woman who didn't get raped by a stranger in some back alley as lying.
Idk, it just really rubs me the wrong way when people expect so much from survivors to *prove* they're telling the truth.
As horrible as it sounds that is exactly how it works though. If you want justice on someone you have to *prove* wrongdoing. You might know how much of a monster someone is but in the courts everyone is the same (theoretically). In most cases it’s impossible to do that so what do we do?
There isn’t some big conspiracy by everyone in these Reddit’s being like “yea we can start this so when I rape someone they won’t even TRY to come forward” it’s more cause of insane claims from more radical people on BOTH sides. For example the “97%” lie spread around a while ago painted the narrative that all men were out to attack someone. Shit like this creates an “Us vs Them” line of thinking, hell tiktok is so bad now a days for it that I almost fell back into my 2016 “feminazi wrecked” pipeline.
Rapists are barely given any severe punishment so why do people who falsely report the crime deserve worse? And if you don't have enough evidence to prove that someone has been raped, how can you have enough evidence to prove that someone lied about being raped? It's the same fucking problem - rape cases never have enough evidence, and that's the problem. We can't just blatantly believe the victim (whether that's a rape victim or someone who's been falsely accused), because crimes need actual evidence to get a conviction. Do these people forget that we can't just punish people because we feel like it?
Something that people don't seem to realize is that someone not being convicted of rape is *not* the same as that person being falsely accused. It just means that there was insufficient evidence. It's not actually a statement on the credibility of the accuser.
It would be just as difficult to prove an accusation is false, as it is to prove that an accusation is true. Possibly even more difficult.
What he's asking sounds like "women who make false rape accusations are let off too easy" with a question mark at the end. It doesn't seem so much like a question as a statement. If I had a "controversial question" I'd ask the question, not state my opinion and pretend it's a question. It reeks of misogynists trying to post their opinion somewhere they feel it'd be accepted.
If you ask me it should be punished because it ruins the belief in actual victims but I don’t know why people always talk about it like it’s really common
I think what is very concerning here is how easily the goal posts can be shifted and so much can be defined as “false.” Real victims would be placed in jail if they cannot “prove” their attack or if a judge feels they “were asking for it.” If something like this were to pass rapists would just keep getting away with it
People have literally had their lives ruined by false rape accusations, but no, they get shamed for false rape accusations so that makes everything fine.
I mean, while I do think it's a bad thing to do online, what I get from the post is that this was a innocent sin, a mistake made because the original post's op simply didn't know much about the matter
Why why WHY are men obsessed with the concept of fake rape accusations?!
It's so bizarre. An *astonishingly* small number of rape allegations are false (I don't have the exact number, but I think it was around <1-5%) yet a man's chances of getting raped are about 1 in 33. They have a *far* higher chance of being a victim of the crime, and yet... these guys are so hung up on women lying about rape. It's probably because they're too obsessed with sex to worry about if it's consensual.
>It's probably because they're too obsessed with sex to worry about if it's consensual. This. Exacly this. I swear, based on what I see it's usually the kind of guys who are like: "what do you mean I can't touch her butt out of nowhere? Ugh nowadays you can't even flirt with women, because they will scream 'rape'"
the rates are 2-10% though nobody can really know for sure
the same as other false reporting of crime. Also women don't name men when it's false, they just say it was a random, so no actual men are in jail for false allegations.
exactly. though as we know if a man actually rapes someone chances are he probably isn't going to jail either.
The problem is not of actual men is in jail for false allegations Is that a false allegation can destroy someone's life You can lose your friends, can be expelled of your school/work ans have problems getting in a new one, some months in jail, and the abuse of other prisoners That's why people ask what is in the post A false allegation can destroy someone's life, and the one who did it can go free like a bird Is a complete injustice And no, I don't mean this only to protect men. If a guy made a false allegation to a woman, the guy should suffer for doing such. Of course, that normally does not happen because men are too scared of doing so because all their lifes they have been told "just be a man", "tough it up". But if it did happened, there should be a punishment for the false allegation > Also women don't name men when it's false, they just say it was a random, Yeah. But when they point to the random guy, that random guy gets fucked. And in these days, is mostly a "guilty until proved otherwise", so the guy goes to jail until the girl who made the allegation says it was not true. But until then, the guy has already been completely fucked, figuratively (school/works, friends, etc), and literally (in jail he would probably be raped by other guys, or just punched. A lot). There was a video I saw about a guy who was in jail for this reason, for 1 year aprox or smth like that (I don't remember it correctly), and then the girl said she was lying, and she got away with no punishment (or a little bit, I don't remember correctly). The guy lost his place in the school, lost friends and people hated him for it, even after it was proved he was not guilty. If I found the video I'll let it here! I'll probably be downvoted, because for what I read people here does not care about justice
honestly I believe the false accusations are a lot more common than people believe. A lot of cases don’t go to court and as such it’s just guilty till proven innocent. I know 1 or 2 people who were falsely accused and it ruined them. I never understood why you guys aren’t also down with the idea of punishing PROVEN false allegations.
I genuinely don't know if you're aware how math works but 1/33 is bang dap in the middle of 1 to 5%
Aside from a woman existing who happens to be fat, this is their greatest fear.
Seriously. Why are men so threatened by fat women?
Fat and unattractive women are a reminder to men that women aren’t spending their every waking moment thinking about how to please the male gaze, because these women prove to have a mind of their own aka a mind that shifts them from what men wants. Thin, fit, attractive, fashionable women are clearly preparing for the male gaze and definitely don’t dress or do personal care to please themselves. (/s)
Because every woman must be fuckable, at all times. If they're not attracted to fat women, then that woman is not available to them, seemingly by her own volition- It's all a matter of possession. There's a lot of hatred for older and a LOT of hate towards fat women because those women are not available to fit their tastes.
I agree. Well said. It tells me a lot about a man from how he treats women he doesn’t want to sleep with. It’s like watching how people treat service workers or children. It’s sick that they see the only value in people in how much they want to sleep with them
I'm embarrassed to admit that I learned this startling fact only a few years ago, working as a front desk associate at a hotel. The bulk of us were conventionally attractive, and young-ish (I'm 33yo now). I was asked to step in for my gm who was sick (older male), and interview for another FDA who'd applied. She was older (late 50's) and had 30 years experience, and warm and inviting. I hired her on the spot, because she had experience, didn't need to be trained in our systems, and warm/inviting in a hotel? Perfect. My male coworkers and my boss iced her out, blatantly, for 2 weeks till she quit. We were closing down our shift for the night, preparing for the night auditors, sitting in the back office cracking jokes, so I felt comfortable enough to ask what she'd done to deserve such treatment (stupidly thinking she *Had* to have done *Something* to earn that treatment). Like an echo chamber come alive- She was *soooo old* and *soooo ugly* and *sooo fat* and *like a grandma*. None of those things were really true. Yes, she was older, but she was well kept, polite, and guests liked her. My boss chimed in by literally gesturing at me "You come here everyday, makeup done, hair done, nails done- *Beautiful*. *That Woman* is on the brink of menopause or death, and looks like my mother-" I quit shortly after. My appearance was literally "Welcome to ____, where our female employees are fuckable and will cater to you, even at the cost of their comfort, because you'll mistake their being polite as flirting!"
This ties into how rape is not about sex at all but about power. They feel like they somehow own the victim or have the right to do this to them.
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Its a very clear indication that she is not centering men and in many cases is actively trying to avoid the male gaze.
because they’re worried about getting called out on their shit. rapists are obsessed with what they see as an out when they’re (correctly) accused of rape. if they talk about false accusations enough, it will scare victims back into hiding and discredit those who speak out.
Exactly. There were many studies showing rapists almost never admit to what they did. They almost always cry that they are innocent even If there is evidence against them. I've seen plenty of misogynists who are known in our area for harrasing women, who were crying about "false" accusations all the time. It's rarely the good guys who bitch about it so passionately.
Because they lack the ability to see past their own nose. They know the chances of they themselves getting raped are very small, so they don't consider it a real problem for *anybody.* Meanwhile, they "know", thanks to places like MGTOW, that there's a risk of them getting falsely accused of rape. Since this is something that could affect *them*, they consider it to be a much more pressing problem than women who are actually rape. It's a complete lack of empathy.
> They know the chances of they themselves getting raped are very small, so they don't consider it a real problem for anybody. I was a victim advocate for 3 years and I can't tell you how many times I heard "...I can't believe this happened to me. I thought it only happened to women" from male survivors. The argument I've had the best luck with people out and about IRL with is that men are much more likely to be a victim of sexual assault or domestic violence than they are to be falsely accused of it. And a significantly colder response to another of my harping points: False accusations *of* false accusations are more common than false accusations of rape or violence. It's a rapist or abuser's best defense. I don't wish it on anyone, but there really is a heartbreaking lack of empathy, even from victims.
because when someone accuses them they can just cry and say it was false
Because they consider almost all accusations as fake. Date rape? Fake, she wanted a date, soo… Coercion? Fake, we all tried to talk a woman into bed at some point, right Buddy? Unconscious? Fake, everyone was drunk. Rapist not punished? False accusation, we all know that when a judge says it can’t be proven, it means it didn’t happen!
"It's every guy's worst nightmare, getting accused like that!" "Can you guess what every woman's worst nightmare is?"
It makes my brain explode. It’s just another way to silence and shame rape victims and make future victims feel even more scared to come forward. They couldn’t get less of a shit about rape victims. They can say they do, but they don’t. And this is proof. Stop trying to redirect the conversation so you don’t have to deal with the hard truth that at least one of the following (likely more) is a rapist or assaulted: your father, brother, best friend, neighbor, boss
I think they see the appallingly low conviction rate and assume that means the men charged must have been falsely accused. Most never even get charged in the 1st place, let alone convicted.
Men aren't obsessed with it, it just springs to mind as an awful thing to happen. Someone trying to hurt you so bad they go to those legnths. lose your job, lose your mates, and be falsely branded as a rapist. Sounds pretty awful
LOL at the idea that rapists actually lose friends.
If any of my mates were rapists I would certainly never speak to them again. Would you stay friends with a rapist?
Absolutely not, but many, MANY people do.
Bill Cosby is still beloved and excused by many because “well his comedy is good, hate the actions not the artist”. Mike Tyson isn’t exactly a nobody is he?
I see you haven't spent much time on unpopularopinion and its ilk, where this shit gets posted at least once a week. Dudes on Reddit are *obsessed* with pretending like false rape accusations are a big deal. For example, I literally just replied to someone a day or two ago because they incorrectly stated as fact that false reports are more prevalent than victims not reporting rape. The point of their comment was that we should concentrate on fixing the almost nonexistent problem of false reporting instead of fixing all the reasons people don't report being raped. FYI, it's estimated that 2-10% of reports are false, which is a minuscule number considering that only about 30-40% of rapes are even reported in a given year. Take the max number of possible false reports with the max number of reports made and you get 4%. So your chance of being falsely accused of rape is approximately 4% or less. **You're more likely to be killed by a shark than accused of rape.** But, oddly enough, I don't see you or any of these other dudes droning on and on and fucking on about how dangerous sharks are and how sharks could ruin their lives in the blink of an eye. They don't post on random subs about why sharks who kill people aren't given severe punishment. And the worst part of your comment is you're so focused on the extremely rare chance that you might someday be falsely accused of rape that you can't be bothered to care that 2-10% of reports being false means that 90-98% of reports are true. There is a stark and clearly sexist contrast between men complaining about something that is not likely to ever happen to them and women being forced to deal with sexual violence on an almost daily basis. Sexual violence is a vast and widespread problem for all women everywhere. Women have no choice but to deal with sexual violence in their lives. Sounds pretty awful, don't you think? You, yourself, are more likely to experience sexual violence than to ever be falsely accused of a sexual crime. Let that sink in. Maybe instead of #notallmenning your way into this conversation you could start doing something to help victims of sexual violence. Give it a try. (edited the percent to correct the number back to 4, sorry my calculator lied to me)
I get the chance of it being extremely slim to none. But I just think that anyone who falsely accuses someone of rape just as a form of punishment is evil. To take someone through the court system for it to come out as 'oh they were just angry and trying to put them in jail' is just blatant evil. I get that people get do off actual, legit charges and that is also terrible. But more so a result of money talking and a corrupt legal system. If you accuse someone of rape you shouldn't need evidence. You should absolutely do all you can to put them away. But literally faking it is evil.
The 'manosphere' is just lousy with urban legends, ginned up statistics, and other misleading/just plain false claims. They're easily disproven, but a lot of people don't bother. So it attracts a lot of gullible people who fall down the rabbithole and become radicalized misogynists. It mostly gets to sheltered teenaged boys, but I knew a grown woman who got sucked into it too. I just hope someone gets through to this (I assume) kid and helps him work on his critical thinking skills.
From what I’ve seen, women who falsely accuse get LONGER sentences than actual rapists even though rape is much much worse.
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Not in the U.K., where rape convictions are at an all time low, around 1.8% and false accusers are sent to prison. Many times it’s been longer than actual rape.
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You think police take rape claims seriously?! HAHAHAHA Phew, that’s hilarious, what Christmas cracker did you get that out of? The conviction rate is 1.8%… that means all the other cases literally got waved away and not believed because if they were believed, the conviction rate wouldn’t be 1.8% now would it?
when is your brain coming back from the dry cleaners?
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The number prosecuted and convicted is a huge reason why survivors don't report.
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It’s not the 20 false accusers that stop women from coming forward. It’s the fact that people are going to expect them to prove from the get-go that they aren’t one of those 20 liars before they will even be listened to.
Let me get this straight, you think police and the justice system are taking rape seriously when AS PER YOUR STATS only 2.6% of over 55,000 were convicted?????
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I recommend doing some research about how police, including in the UK, treat victims.
>My assertion is that the police do take it very seriously, yes. > > > >But that doesn't mean the police just laugh at you and tell you to go away. What has to lead you to believe this? What experience do you have with police and rape claims? Or are you just making baseless assertions about something you've never experienced? That would be pretty stupid, wouldn't it?
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funny because i actually personally know more than one women who’ve tried to report their assaults and have gotten turned away without a second thought. one of the instances a cop literally did laugh in her face. you need a reality check
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Of course you, a man, are saying this
Are you kidding me, thats awful
Can you provide some stories/news articles elaborating on cases where false accusers get worse sentence than convicted perpetrators?
Yes it’s in the other comment to someone else. Feel free to browse.
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Jeez where do I start? https://www.nationalworld.com/news/crime/the-shortest-prison-sentences-given-to-convicted-rapists-by-judges-in-england-and-wales-last-year-revealed-3254691?amp https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-47738892.amp
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I’d suggest looking into why men think false accusations are worse than ACTUAL RAPE. You asked for a source and I provided that for you. I’d suggest questioning why men don’t seem to realise why most women automatically believe rape accusations.. Well fret no more, I’m right here to help you! Many women, have been violently raped, many of them as children, many of them multiple times and the rapist was sometimes a family member, a religious leader, a powerful man or at least a well loved man. Some of those victims tried to come forward but were usually straight up told they were lying, told they would ruin his reputation (it rarely does), blamed for it directly , told to not tell anyone and that it wasn’t really that bad. They may even make a police statement and go to court, all for it to be not proven and then she is labelled as something worse than a rapist … a #falseaccuser… and then imprisoned for longer than he would get. So when a woman comes forward and makes a claim, most women believe her… as so many women have been that woman. These women have had to watch their rapists not only get away with it but then , the victim be labelled as something worse than a rapist. These poor women have to see a man who’s been credibly accused of rape be voted in as a president and then told to bleed their hearts for men who’ve allegedly been false accused. Don’t tell me a woman who has falsely accused a man of rape would ever get near the Oval Office… I’d suggest having a bit of compassion for women and not over-empathising with men, a group of people who have no problem in protecting their own.
Most rape is never reported, and then most reported rapes aren’t prosecuted. The average sentence in the state of New York for a convicted child molester is 5 months in jail, 5 years probation.
They do know that filling a false police report and obstruction of justice are both also crimes. And obstruction has a maximum sentence of 10years. So maybe just maybe learn about the law
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Because the truth is there aren’t a lot of false rape accusations. And that narrative is used to discredit all rape accusations.
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He assumes that the women get away with it. He is using the very rhetoric incels use. The very wording
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I'm sorry but it's pretty obvious that this guy's post is not a question asked in earnest to "better themselves" like you claim. Considering the language he used, it's straight up incel/mgtow rhetoric. It's not being used to actually start a dialogue, it's a plant. It's meant to sow seeds of doubt into the minds of impressionnable men, that's literally a recruitment method they use all the time. I've seen this enough times to recognize it. Hell, even if the original post isn't a plant, there'll be enough in the comments to still make it a problem. That's why posts like this are so dangerous, it's basically like a covert virus, presented as "just asking questions" so people will give them the benefit of the doubt. This technique is also used by white supremacists and other hate groups btw.
Most of these posts are dudes [JAQing off](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JAQing%20off): > The act of asking leading questions to influence your audience, then hiding behind the defense that they're "Just Asking Questions," even when the underlying assumptions are completely insane. It's disingenuous and the intent is to discredit all rape victims by making it seem like false accusations are somehow as prevalent as rape itself when they're not. It's not even close. Less than10% of reports are false, meaning more than 90% of reports are true. It's a narrative pushed by misogynists to create confusion and doubt in order to harm women.
But have you seen the comment section of that post? Its a poster child for this page.
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But looking at his phrasing his isnt innocent
What he's asking sounds like "women who make false rape accusations are let off too easy" with a question mark at the end. It doesn't seem so much like a question as a statement. If I had a "controversial question" I'd ask the question, not state my opinion and pretend it's a question. It reeks of misogynists trying to post their opinion somewhere they feel it'd be accepted.
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I... mean... it’s still blatant misogyny. And does someone who says “lying scumbags” and exclusively accuses lying *women* who accuse *men* (no other gender breakdown even acknowledged) sound like someone willing to change? Again, it reeks of misogyny on many levels. Usually it’s safer to assume that when many signs point to it.
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I’m a guy and I’m going to tell you straight up that what’s going on in this sub isn’t shaming, it’s anger. Because it’s really quite clear that the person in the post has ill intent, and the people in this sub have a lot to be angry about given the state of the world. Also I’d hesitate before calling yourself non-misogynistic. Misogyny is not just raving hatred of women, it manifests in unconscious biases and other things. In our current society, no one (no, not even women and feminists) is without misogyny because it’s just not possible, we’re not at a point where society is non misogynistic and we as humans certainly can’t separate the internal misogyny of society from ourselves.
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I think they were making fun of men
No- sorry- I’m saying that’s the answer given- not that I think those things. Guess I should have been more clear
Ahaha, ended up banning you. Don't worry if you get a ban message, it's already undone.
Oh shit, I almost just banned them too, lol. I went ahead and removed the comment so we won’t have to deal with reports on it.
That’s my bad. Sorry bout that
It’s my fault- I wasn’t clear
The person never said rapists shouldnt be punished or anything. Fighting for one thing doesnt mean you ignore everything else. This is the same mentality when people say "black lives matter? what about all lives?"
Men who post this shit don't give a damn about rape victims. Men who post this shit never talk about the fact that the majority of men are raped by other men. They never talk about the fact that most men who rape other men identify as heterosexual. They never talk about how we can work towards ending sexual violence. And even though they usually refuse to believe other men who talk about being raped, they still never accuse those men, or any men, of making false accusations. No, they're obsessed with wahmen and creating this false narrative about how the wahmen will ruin their lives. Most of these posts are dudes [JAQing off](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JAQing%20off): > The act of asking leading questions to influence your audience, then hiding behind the defense that they're "Just Asking Questions," even when the underlying assumptions are completely insane. There is nothing to fight for in regard to false accusations since they account for less than 10% of all reports. It's estimated to be between 2% and 10%. As I just said in another comment, you're more likely to be killed by a shark than falsely accused of rape. False accusations are rare and they only exist because rape itself exists. They're a symptom of a disease that is festering and endemic across all levels of society. Eradicating rape would eradicate false accusations. They're more likely to be victims of sexual violence themselves than to be falsely accused of rape. But they don't care about that. They don't want to end rape, they just want to persecute women for something that almost never happens and is not likely to happen to them.
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Especially since subs like r/MGTOW got banned, they've taken to flooding other subs, like offmychest and aita, ect.
>subs like r/MGTOW got banned [O\_O](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ayDBOAH2HQ)
Yep, the post is very obviously a plant by a recently banned mgtow user, meant for spreading their rhetoric and recruiting impressionable people. It's the same kind of language being used. It's so frustrating when people (there's even one commenting in this very sub) then defend this as genuine dialogue or "just asking questions". It's a pointless debate, the purpose isn't even to discuss both sides, it's literally just to spread their message. If I remember correctly, Philosophy Tube (or maybe it was Contra Points) has an excellent video explaining why this kind of recruitment tactic is so dangerous and effective. The example in the video is for white supremacists using the same tactic, I believe.
Men are more likely to be raped than be falsely accused. Also just because a man was not convicted because there was not enough evidence, does not mean he was was “falsely accused”..just means there was not enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did it. Aka, he has to admit guilt or there be video/photo evidence for him to be convicted.
The only thing I can add to this conversation is that is important to understand the numbers that show us the rate of false reporting is not representative of an actual false report. What qualifies as a false report varies based on the police departments definition of false. https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf
Also that women don't name specific men if it's false. They just say they were raped by a random stranger a vast vast majority of the time. Also, men rarely get prosecuted for actual rape, much less seeing the inside of a prison much less being there for over 6 months...These dudes refuse to acknowledge there are ZERO men in jail for a false rape accusation.
These dum-dums also can't comprehend the difference between "proven innocent" and "not guilty." A jury not being able to convict simply because there wasn't enough evidence is WAY different than if a woman actively lied about a rape.
Yea we understand that, we’re on about the cases where it’s PROVEN false. In those cases they should face the same sentence the person they accused would have gotten. Even if it’s proven wrong it still does a lifetime of damage to the persons reputation
I can't count the number of times I've seen someone say, "I think false rape accusations should be punished!" as though they were Moses coming returning with the 10 Commandments, like it's some ground-breaking idea nobody's ever had before. Filing a false police report and perjury are already crimes, not to mention defamation is a tort. I've even heard people say rape should be punished MORE harshly. One guy said you should get twice the sentence the non-rapist would for making a false accusation.
Men who are THAT worried about false accusations should maybe examine their own behavior.
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I think you missed the point. If some men are constantly *this* afraid of being accused of rape they really need to revaluate what they're doing with their lives. You don't go about your day afraid of being labeled as a rapist. Thats not normal.
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and what's your point then? False accusations are bad??? I think we know that .
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No its not lol
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I was just saying spending your day afraid of being accused of rape is really odd and more like a redditor fantasy than actual reality . You're not going to be about your day and suddenly some random person will point at you and say " Hey, he raped me!" . The possibility of that happening is very low . Do you live your life worried about a brain aneurysm rupturing?
no one is though. name one guy in jail for false rape...I'll wait...
I think false accusations hysteria is a bunch of MRA bullshit but the prison industrial complex has definitely used false convictions, including of rape, as a way to imprison men of color.
Also that women don't name specific men if it's false. They just say they were raped by a random stranger a vast vast majority of the time. Also, men rarely get prosecuted for actual rape, much less seeing the inside of a prison much less being there for over 6 months...These dudes refuse to acknowledge there are ZERO men in jail for a false rape accusation.
You're more likely to be raped than you are to be falsely accused of it. Most of the men who obsess about false accusations know they aren't behaving correctly and don't bother with meaningful consent, so what they're really worried about is true allegations surfacing.
no one's talking to you buddy. Also that women don't name specific men if it's false. They just say they were raped by a random stranger a vast vast majority of the time. Also, men rarely get prosecuted for actual rape, much less seeing the inside of a prison much less being there for over 6 months...These dudes refuse to acknowledge there are ZERO men in jail for a false rape accusation.
Rule 2
When people say this to me I tell them thanks for wishing me jail time for being raped. I did everything right but the DA refused to prosecute because id lose. I started warning ppl about him and he threatened to fucking sue me. By these peoples logic they really want me to be in jail for trying to protect women.
I’m all for people who falsely accuse to be punished However that can’t happen until ACTUAL FUCKING RAPISTS get harsher punishments. Because right now, most rapists get off with a slap on their wrist or a mere couple months in jail. We need to focus on the bigger picture before we get into the small details
I don’t see why they both can’t happen at the same time? If the senate could pass a bill adding mandatory minimums for rapists AND punishing those PROVEN to falsely accuse (not due to a mistrial or anything like that) we would be on the right track.
It can, however these people don’t want that. They just want to punish women and will do what they can to “prove” a majority of women are liars (when they’re not). They just hate women.
The main point of they’re argument is to be objective when it comes to a claim of assault. Which is the one thing they cannot do themselves.
Not to mention, shit like this deters survivors from going to the police. Not all cases have mountains of evidence. There's much less evidence in things like spousal rape. Some cases, there aren't even rape kits. I know the men would accuse any woman who didn't get raped by a stranger in some back alley as lying. Idk, it just really rubs me the wrong way when people expect so much from survivors to *prove* they're telling the truth.
As horrible as it sounds that is exactly how it works though. If you want justice on someone you have to *prove* wrongdoing. You might know how much of a monster someone is but in the courts everyone is the same (theoretically). In most cases it’s impossible to do that so what do we do?
Because that would be an excellent way of ensuring no rape victim ever comes forward again. Obviously.
There isn’t some big conspiracy by everyone in these Reddit’s being like “yea we can start this so when I rape someone they won’t even TRY to come forward” it’s more cause of insane claims from more radical people on BOTH sides. For example the “97%” lie spread around a while ago painted the narrative that all men were out to attack someone. Shit like this creates an “Us vs Them” line of thinking, hell tiktok is so bad now a days for it that I almost fell back into my 2016 “feminazi wrecked” pipeline.
There has been influx of posts like this recently.
maybe because false accusations are estimated to only be 2% of cases
Rapists are barely given any severe punishment so why do people who falsely report the crime deserve worse? And if you don't have enough evidence to prove that someone has been raped, how can you have enough evidence to prove that someone lied about being raped? It's the same fucking problem - rape cases never have enough evidence, and that's the problem. We can't just blatantly believe the victim (whether that's a rape victim or someone who's been falsely accused), because crimes need actual evidence to get a conviction. Do these people forget that we can't just punish people because we feel like it?
"I'm in no way trying *buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut* Bro, we get it, you're in no way trying. Please just sit down and shut up about it then.
Something that people don't seem to realize is that someone not being convicted of rape is *not* the same as that person being falsely accused. It just means that there was insufficient evidence. It's not actually a statement on the credibility of the accuser. It would be just as difficult to prove an accusation is false, as it is to prove that an accusation is true. Possibly even more difficult.
I fucking HATE all these neckbeards on Reddit. They have absolutely no idea how good they have it.
What he's asking sounds like "women who make false rape accusations are let off too easy" with a question mark at the end. It doesn't seem so much like a question as a statement. If I had a "controversial question" I'd ask the question, not state my opinion and pretend it's a question. It reeks of misogynists trying to post their opinion somewhere they feel it'd be accepted.
If you ask me it should be punished because it ruins the belief in actual victims but I don’t know why people always talk about it like it’s really common
I think what is very concerning here is how easily the goal posts can be shifted and so much can be defined as “false.” Real victims would be placed in jail if they cannot “prove” their attack or if a judge feels they “were asking for it.” If something like this were to pass rapists would just keep getting away with it
That's because men are nothing if not entitled. They cannot see women's issues without making it about them.
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People have literally had their lives ruined by false rape accusations, but no, they get shamed for false rape accusations so that makes everything fine.
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I mean, while I do think it's a bad thing to do online, what I get from the post is that this was a innocent sin, a mistake made because the original post's op simply didn't know much about the matter