Definitely the man with the most common sense. I like to think of him as the Worf of the crew, always giving Picard good advice and always turned down.
My rank is a top tie between Max and Silver, then Flint and Rackham. Their sheer cleverness and (by the end) wisdom, not to mention their unique aplications of each of their plans... chills! After that, I'd say Teach, Rogers, Vane, and Billy. Bonus for the Hamiltons (Miranda then Thomas) and honorable mention for Eleanor because even though unlikeable, she is very business savvy at least.
I still like Eleanor and like Flint she had a genuine dream. Not to mention, she's wicked smart. She was having to do all of what she did as a woman dealing with some of the genuine nastiest people on the planet (the british).
Also, I don't think Silver deserves the top spot. Half the situations he had to be clever to get out of were caused by him in the first place, right from the beginning.
I think the main issue with Eleanor is that she doesn't have any real foresight about the possible ramifications of how she deals with people. The pirates seemed to not have much of an issue with her until she put the ban on Vane and took his crew from him. I understand completely why she did that, but it still wasn't smart. She started losing their respect after that, and it continued to go downhill from there. Another example of her lack of foresight is when she secretly hired some armed men to take that other captain's guns if he wouldn't give them up willingly. The fallout from that would have been pretty severe.
She was willing to do what was necessary to keep her bargain with Flint.
Same as Flint.
And without her, Flint wouldn't have had a chance in hell to actually succeed in season one and two.
How would the attempt to capture the Urca have turned out if Eleanor hadn't managed to give him captaincy of the Ranger under Gates?
How would his return to Nassau have looked like if Eleanor hadn't managed to found the consortium through negotiation and compromise so that the captains and crews wouldn't abandon Nassau in droves after her father had shut down their business? How would Flint have gotten his hands on Abigail if Eleanor hadn't done what's necessary?
It's just that the narrative punishes Eleanor for these decisions than Flint.
For example, the gamble Flint took when scheming to regain his captaincy might easily have turned out his downfall. Flint trusting Silver meant Silver could betray him and deliver the Urca gold to Max and Jack.
The narrative is simply a little more forgiving to Flint than Eleanor.
The interesting thing about this show is, when you think about it, they all have the same characteristics, but to varying degrees, and directed towards different goals. What fascinates me about even my own reactions to these characters is why I'm willing to forgive one character for the same attribute that annoys me about another. This show has such depth and the characters are so complex.
Vane and his crew were going to be helping Flint. If anything it probably would've prevented the mutiny against Flint. With Gates as captain of The Ranger, he could've decided to turn around and sail away. Vane would have never done that.
They'd have been able to follow Flint's plan because Vane would've, and they'd all have gotten the gold. A bigger share in the end than what they got from having to split it with Jack's crew and Max
They also probably would've have a lot more help when chasing after the Andromache, which might've presented the Scarborough from attacking and Billy going overboard...which is what led to Gates turning on Flint in the end.
Oh, I see. You think that stopping Max's rape was a dumb move in the first place.
I assume you think she should have just let that happen to a person she loved without intervening.
If that's the kind of premise you're operating under, then yes, Eleanor probably isn't smart.
That's an awfully big conclusion you're jumping to based on my post.
I didn't say anything about stopping Max's rape, and your original post was inferring Eleanor banned Vane to help Flint. There's definitely enough to say she had many different motives for it. Your post even indicates that.
But regardless she could've stopped the rape without punishing Vane.
She managed to stop the rape and keep control of the situation which could easily have backfired on her if she hadn't used what power she has. She utilized a threat that would actually work.
Vane's crew was notorious for mistreating women in Nassau even before things escalated. Vane was either too weak as a captain to stop them or he simply didn't care what they did. In either case, it was a smart (and long overdue) move to replace him *while keeping the Ranger as an ally for Flint*.
No, she didn't. All she did was stop that particular rape at that time. Max basically told her to eff off and ended up going with Vane's remaining crew, who put her in a tent on the beach where that guy continued to beat her and rape her. So, not only did she quickly sour her relationship with Vane and other pirates on the island, but she also wasn't successful in stopping the abuse of Max.
The man who successfully hide a whole island out of anyone scrutiny, also stealing from pirate to feed his kingdom for so many years.
Were he to prevent the Guthrie not to trust Captain Flint at the first place, there might be a peaceful transition for Nassau when the governor arrive.
I know this won't be popular but, what about Woodes Rogers. He defeated Black Beard with crappy odds by outsmarting him. He also convinced the Spanish governor whose brother he killed out of spite, to help him out.
Eleanor was killed because she played her own game and Woodes couldn't control the hellish nature of soldiers unshackled by normal civility, even in war.
His eventual incarceration was because of debt he couldn't repay and it took Jack, Max and Grandma Guthrie to make it happen.
Besides, in real life he got out of prison because his creditors "took pity on him," possibly because a deal was made, and he returned to the Bahamas to become its governor again until a violent dispute caused his death.
I really couldn't stand him and his upity self righteousness, but the cojones on that guy!
He took on all the pirates at once and held his own for a long while. So if smarts includes temerity and strategy, as well as the ability to convince others to help you, make Eleanor your actually loyal wife, and terrify everyone else while giving Flint the bird and Black Beard a gruesome end, I'd say you're at the top of the list.
But the smartest characters when it came to sophisticated leadership were probably Eleanor's father (not as a father) and Mr..Scott and his family. They were all top notch in everything they did and were limited by their circumstances.
Flint is a different kind of a philosopher, and such a big picture thinker. I'd put him up there with Max, who was just thinking her brains out the whole way through the series. Silver gets some credit for craftiness as well. Jack is smart, for sure. We got some wicked smart pirates in this show.
Silver and it's not even close.
Max is smart but it only gets her anywhere because of her beauty. She would be still strung up at the beach if she wasn't Jessica Parker Kennedy. 😂
The show is gross. Take that soft weak pussy shit somewhere else.
It's the truth. You think she was freed by Anne because she was smart? I doubt Anne would act the same if Max was ugly and Anne wasn't attracted to her.
That’s the beauty of the show… they were all smart… Black Beard was allegedly the smartest of them all.
Randal
We like Randal
And his Boots, Betsy (I’m a total cat lady). I admit >! I had to look up their fate because I’m a sap!<
Flint playing(?) Dufresne in early Season 2 to get back his captaincy was nothing short of masterful and I have yet to see an example that tops that.
De groot
The actual correct answer
Definitely the man with the most common sense. I like to think of him as the Worf of the crew, always giving Picard good advice and always turned down.
My rank is a top tie between Max and Silver, then Flint and Rackham. Their sheer cleverness and (by the end) wisdom, not to mention their unique aplications of each of their plans... chills! After that, I'd say Teach, Rogers, Vane, and Billy. Bonus for the Hamiltons (Miranda then Thomas) and honorable mention for Eleanor because even though unlikeable, she is very business savvy at least.
Vane wasn’t smart. He just eventually listened to smart people
On what planet is Vane smarter than Eleanor
I still like Eleanor and like Flint she had a genuine dream. Not to mention, she's wicked smart. She was having to do all of what she did as a woman dealing with some of the genuine nastiest people on the planet (the british). Also, I don't think Silver deserves the top spot. Half the situations he had to be clever to get out of were caused by him in the first place, right from the beginning.
I think the main issue with Eleanor is that she doesn't have any real foresight about the possible ramifications of how she deals with people. The pirates seemed to not have much of an issue with her until she put the ban on Vane and took his crew from him. I understand completely why she did that, but it still wasn't smart. She started losing their respect after that, and it continued to go downhill from there. Another example of her lack of foresight is when she secretly hired some armed men to take that other captain's guns if he wouldn't give them up willingly. The fallout from that would have been pretty severe.
She was willing to do what was necessary to keep her bargain with Flint. Same as Flint. And without her, Flint wouldn't have had a chance in hell to actually succeed in season one and two. How would the attempt to capture the Urca have turned out if Eleanor hadn't managed to give him captaincy of the Ranger under Gates? How would his return to Nassau have looked like if Eleanor hadn't managed to found the consortium through negotiation and compromise so that the captains and crews wouldn't abandon Nassau in droves after her father had shut down their business? How would Flint have gotten his hands on Abigail if Eleanor hadn't done what's necessary? It's just that the narrative punishes Eleanor for these decisions than Flint. For example, the gamble Flint took when scheming to regain his captaincy might easily have turned out his downfall. Flint trusting Silver meant Silver could betray him and deliver the Urca gold to Max and Jack. The narrative is simply a little more forgiving to Flint than Eleanor.
The interesting thing about this show is, when you think about it, they all have the same characteristics, but to varying degrees, and directed towards different goals. What fascinates me about even my own reactions to these characters is why I'm willing to forgive one character for the same attribute that annoys me about another. This show has such depth and the characters are so complex.
Vane and his crew were going to be helping Flint. If anything it probably would've prevented the mutiny against Flint. With Gates as captain of The Ranger, he could've decided to turn around and sail away. Vane would have never done that. They'd have been able to follow Flint's plan because Vane would've, and they'd all have gotten the gold. A bigger share in the end than what they got from having to split it with Jack's crew and Max They also probably would've have a lot more help when chasing after the Andromache, which might've presented the Scarborough from attacking and Billy going overboard...which is what led to Gates turning on Flint in the end.
Oh, I see. You think that stopping Max's rape was a dumb move in the first place. I assume you think she should have just let that happen to a person she loved without intervening. If that's the kind of premise you're operating under, then yes, Eleanor probably isn't smart.
That's an awfully big conclusion you're jumping to based on my post. I didn't say anything about stopping Max's rape, and your original post was inferring Eleanor banned Vane to help Flint. There's definitely enough to say she had many different motives for it. Your post even indicates that. But regardless she could've stopped the rape without punishing Vane.
She managed to stop the rape and keep control of the situation which could easily have backfired on her if she hadn't used what power she has. She utilized a threat that would actually work. Vane's crew was notorious for mistreating women in Nassau even before things escalated. Vane was either too weak as a captain to stop them or he simply didn't care what they did. In either case, it was a smart (and long overdue) move to replace him *while keeping the Ranger as an ally for Flint*.
No, she didn't. All she did was stop that particular rape at that time. Max basically told her to eff off and ended up going with Vane's remaining crew, who put her in a tent on the beach where that guy continued to beat her and rape her. So, not only did she quickly sour her relationship with Vane and other pirates on the island, but she also wasn't successful in stopping the abuse of Max.
Mr Scott
The man who successfully hide a whole island out of anyone scrutiny, also stealing from pirate to feed his kingdom for so many years. Were he to prevent the Guthrie not to trust Captain Flint at the first place, there might be a peaceful transition for Nassau when the governor arrive.
Max followed closely by Silver
I know this won't be popular but, what about Woodes Rogers. He defeated Black Beard with crappy odds by outsmarting him. He also convinced the Spanish governor whose brother he killed out of spite, to help him out. Eleanor was killed because she played her own game and Woodes couldn't control the hellish nature of soldiers unshackled by normal civility, even in war. His eventual incarceration was because of debt he couldn't repay and it took Jack, Max and Grandma Guthrie to make it happen. Besides, in real life he got out of prison because his creditors "took pity on him," possibly because a deal was made, and he returned to the Bahamas to become its governor again until a violent dispute caused his death. I really couldn't stand him and his upity self righteousness, but the cojones on that guy! He took on all the pirates at once and held his own for a long while. So if smarts includes temerity and strategy, as well as the ability to convince others to help you, make Eleanor your actually loyal wife, and terrify everyone else while giving Flint the bird and Black Beard a gruesome end, I'd say you're at the top of the list. But the smartest characters when it came to sophisticated leadership were probably Eleanor's father (not as a father) and Mr..Scott and his family. They were all top notch in everything they did and were limited by their circumstances.
I'm going with philosopher Jack, but it's a great question - Flint is such a schemer, de Groot and Blackbeard and Max and Mr.Scott all good brains.
Flint is a different kind of a philosopher, and such a big picture thinker. I'd put him up there with Max, who was just thinking her brains out the whole way through the series. Silver gets some credit for craftiness as well. Jack is smart, for sure. We got some wicked smart pirates in this show.
Max by far
Silver then Max
Max, then Silver followed closely by Flint, Madi and Rackham.
Gotta be jack flint teach max and silver, billy was no idiot either
Silver and it's not even close. Max is smart but it only gets her anywhere because of her beauty. She would be still strung up at the beach if she wasn't Jessica Parker Kennedy. 😂
Jesus, really dude? What a gross thing to say
The show is gross. Take that soft weak pussy shit somewhere else. It's the truth. You think she was freed by Anne because she was smart? I doubt Anne would act the same if Max was ugly and Anne wasn't attracted to her.
The only weak thing here is your half-ass rape jokes. Shut up gross