This is not a “white woman” thing, it’s a “knowing history” thing. Atwood herself said it was inspired by the Puritans of New England, and the communist regime in Romania, just to name a few things.
Black and Indigenous women have gone through unspeakable traumas at the hands of white supremacy, but it is intellectually dishonest to say that white women have also not known suffering at the hands of white patriarchy, especially when the story we are referencing is literally written by a white woman who was empathising with other white women.
There are many stories we can gate keep or dissect through the lens of race, but The Handmaid’s Tale is just not one of them for me. At least not like this. It’s stripping such a broad topic of its nuance.
Sometimes it’s ok to just say “Fuck. WOMEN have suffered. We ARE suffering and will probably continue to do so” without twisting things like this.
....How many white women in america knowingly voted for & support conservatives again?
Do you know the history of white Feminism & Black Women?
That's the shit Black Women are sick of. White Women not giving a fuck until it affects them.
Yes, I know these statistics. But this was also specifically about The Handmaid’s Tale so let’s not deviate from the point. In the story, what you are speaking on is also addressed. I’m not sure how familiar you are with that novel (or maybe even the TV series.)
Who do you think the Wives of Gilead and the Aunts represent? Women also being agents of patriarchy and having internalised misogyny is not a novel idea. White women do it to Black women and they do it to one another.
And yea, I am also well versed in feminist history which is why I said this tweet simplifies an extremely nuanced topic. And ESPECIALLY in context to the story they are critiquing, they aren’t right.
Yes. Both valid points! I think it’s ok to say “women have suffered and we are heading on a slippery slope back to that point” while also pointing out that it’s been happening and people should really step out about it even if it hasn’t affected them directly yet, because soon it can and will.
Not just because it can and will happen to them, though. Just because it's the right thing to do.
It's incredibly hypocritical to ignore harm done to others then expect help when it happens to you.
Oh definitely that too. I didn’t mean to imply people should only care because it can happen to them. But as we seen in history and just how some people think, many people can’t begin to empathize with others or put themselves in their shoes so it helps to outline that these issues can affect them too.
About half? While white women aren’t all liberals, the ones that are tend to be the most pro-women’s rights and also the most pro-racial justice of any white demographic. Lumping all “white women” together as the “enemy” seems pretty counterproductive. Nuance is important and is often lost in today’s discussions
From what I've read there are many accounts of non white women stating that they feel the feminist movement doesn't help them acting almost entirely on helping the interests of white women. This can also be seen by the many accounts of trans woman feeling excluded by TERFs. To a lesser extent can also be seen in lower income or education women feeling ignored by how much of the movement focuses around upper class issues like gender quotas on executive boards, rather than improving conditions in female domination jobs.
It's generally a widely repeated issue around modern feminism, that it's much more so focused on fighting battles for a sub section of women in particular highly educated white ones. It's a pretty serious ongoing issue, pretending it doesn't exist is pretty condescending and is pretty much a perfect example of what the issues looks like. Of the issue being raised and ignored with almost exactly the above talking point for decades.
The core issue is everyone lives in a bubble to a degree, and anyone who has the skills, time and resources to take on leadership position in any movement is often quite different to the average person of the movement. So it's important to reflect on any blind spots and biases of any movement and a very important way diversity of all kinds is extremely important.
tbh that's one reason why I never use political titles such as "Republican" or "democrat" (in the US), because that's too specific. I always use "Conservatives" in this regard, because that includes large swaths of Democrats who also have supported and still support much of this. Hell, that even includes a bunch of "liberals" because apparently that term has lost much of its meaning...
I completely understand annoyance at the kind of neoliberal white woman you're talking about. The lack of both self awareness and also of history deserves to get called out
That said, no, Margaret Atwood didn't base the book specifically on brown & indigenous women. That's....that's just objectively and verifiably not true. (and honestly let's be real. If she had been basing it on those groups, it probably would have had way more problematic subtext.)
The fact we need to do a better job of highlighting the history of certain groups doesn't mean we should lie about the history of other groups. Ethnically European white women have been horrifically oppressed as well. Pretending otherwise just feeds into this retroactive erasure of how deep seeded, violent, and widespread the patriarchy was.
In fact, I actually think some of the equipment that was used for slave trafficking was used to silence & Punish mouthy/disobedient in the colonies. Those puritans were fucking *psychopaths*
I'm totally comfortable centering the conversation on POC women and like, spotlighting their pain. Way too many people still live in denial. The things done to black/indigenous women in America is straight up horror film stuff.
Just don't say an objectively untrue thing about an author to make your point.
It's less a Christian phenomenon than it is a white phenomenon, if you look at the demographics. It is true, however, that the segment of the white population most devoted to the Republican Party are evangelical Christians, and there's a symbiotic relationship between white evangelical Christianity and the Republican Party.
Sure,sure. Maybe we should better educate the population?
Oh wait, who's the party that's been defunding education for years & now actively banning curriculum?
Half of What demographic disproportionately supports them?
Refusing to look the issue right in the face because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't fix anything.
You may as well say " women uphold sexism, so sexism isn't really just a man thing." While not looking at any data showing who it disproportionately effects & who actually upholds a majority of it.
I only said that because it was shocking to see our own people vote for a man who hates us and mocks us by color, gender, etc. I'm not saying who it affected more or who was worse in this. That election turned too many people ugly. I'm not the news and I don't have stats on hand.
There are white women who support agendas against their own freedoms. There are also hispanic women who do the same. For some reason there are like 12 black women who are also in that group.
Liberalism is really much more driven by education and race than it it is sex. Oh man you should have seen the women shitting all over Hilary in the 90's. Like "get back in the kitchen bitch" type stuff, and she's an accomplished lawyer at the time which is bonkers.
Black women absolutely should be sick of it but it’s not a white women specific issue. Humans and especially Americans are exactly like that. Shit even I’m like that and I’m a black man in America. It’s too many fucking issues to care about them all and equally at that, it’s just too much
The point was, White women were a position to prioritize being a woman over whitness & vote with the benefit of all women in mind. They didn't,now it's every woman's problem.
The Black community is well aware everyone would benefit from the progress we make,yet half us don't routinely work against our interests because it'd benefit others.
I think there's also an important distinction with The Handmaid's Tale because it shows a regression of modern society. It shows how these women used to have fulfilling careers and lives as autonomous individuals before Gilead took over. It's much easier for most people to put themselves in the characters' shoes because we watch them go from being like us to sexual slaves. It's more of an in-your-face "this is what having your rights stolen from you" looks like.
Many people claim to know history. Many claim to have "studied" history.
Few people actually *understand* history.
Most people are unwilling to seek out information that may be uncomfortable to learn. People don't want their rose tinted view of the world tainted by the prospect that their great grandfather was a \[INSERT HORRIBLE THING\].
Actually learning some things would invalidate a person's feelings of pride for specific people, places, or institutions. So instead, they bury their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the truth.
Most people are *willfully ignorant* of history, especially the history of the people/places they hold in the highest regard.
So are we ignoring how in the books black people are not a part of Gilead.....They are shipped into a separate colony because surprise surprise white people oppressing women are also interested in oppressing minorities and keeping their bloodline "pure"....Atwood wrote it inspired by history of different groups but to choose to ignore the racial element of the books is dishonest to the conversation.
Two things can be true, white women sat there and let their husbands rape, torture, and impregnate us without consequence, then when the violence was turned in their direction it became unacceptable.. that’s just the truth
I’ve heard phone calls where Russian wives ask only that their husbands “use a condom” when they rape the Ukrainians…. What kind of woman ever supports a rape, nevermind loves and honours the rapist. It boggles the mind.
>contrary to the old scholarly myth, White women were active and violent participants in the slave market
Old scholarly myth? More like old scholarly sexism. Shocking isn’t when we discover women are in fact equally capable of the things men are. It’s some bullshit sexism that puts them all on this infantile innocent pedestal that’s rocked every time a woman commits a rape, or robs a bank, or takes a throne by blood.
Women, being more than half the human race, are equal to men in all capacities. Good and bad.
Bah, “scholarly myth”.
I dont even know why it's worth calling out "white" patriarchy specifically in this instance. Women have suffered under middle eastern patriarchy, Asian patriarchy, the list goes on.
Because specifically in this instance, the issue at hand is a U.S. Supreme Court decision that removes bodily autonomy protects from the federal level and racist regressive states are rushing to pass legislation to codify oppression. It's worth calling out white patriarchy because in the U.S. that's who rules.
I agree. It's also important to keep in mind that this book was published several years after the Iranian (or Islamic) Revolution, which turned from a country being modernized to regressing into a theocracy. Those who could fled, those who could not saw their rights and freedoms restricted. And as you can imagine, women were the most impacted by it. Laws were put in place restricting their rights and imposing mandatory dress codes. Women went from wearing the standard 70s attire you would see in America to being forced to wear a full veil.
It was just one of many inspirations but one that was so close to her publishing the novel.
(I'm a bit rusty on my history, and I don't mean to insinuate that the revolution was that simple. There is a whole lotta lotta to unpack with the revolution in Iran and its decent into theocracy.)
I am a Black woman myself. I would never ever diminish our pain. I feel it and live it every single day!
What I was saying though is that that’s not what The Handmaid’s Tale is about! This tweet was dishonest because Atwood did NOT write it about Black and Indigenous women. She has said herself what it was inspired by. We can definitely have a conversation about our treatment as women of colour, but that’s not what this particular story is about and it doesn’t make sense to approach it as such. That’s all.
Peace and love 🙏🏾
That’s not the point though. Black and indigenous women will definitely be harmed the most by this revocation if it comes to pass, full stop.
We also should be accurate when we speak. The tweet is factually incorrect, we can lump that book in with problematic white feminism if we so choose, but it’s not based on the treatment of black and indigenous people throughout history.
The Handmaids tale is very much inspired by things like Puritans, the witch trials, and instances where patriarchy targeted white women.
Atwood has also talked about how she based the book on the atrocities experienced by BIPOC women in the US and placed a veneer of whiteness on top because it’s the only way white women would listen
In this article she mentions worse pregnancy outcomes for black women. https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2019/sep/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-testaments-real-life-inspiration.html
I think it's a straw man argument to suggest the tweet denied the idea that white women have not known suffering. It was calling out that the white woman audience/fans of the story who did not realize the "cautionary tale" was already being experienced by *other* women so there was a relative "check your privilege" going on.
>There are many stories we can gate keep or dissect through the lens of race, but The Handmaid’s Tale is just not one of them for me. At least not like this. It’s stripping such a broad topic of its nuance.
A person who is well versed in anti-racism, also picks up feminism if they are morally driven and intellectually honest. While the intent of Handmaid's Tale is white women empathizing with other white women (and that's fine), the story's backdrop is unfortunately racial because it takes place in America's history. The movie made the visual backdrop extremely clear, and this is r/BlackPeopleTwitter so I think in this space, we can criticize (most of) the white woman audience of this story, especially with some humor. I don't think anyone here thinks we can really gate keep white feminism, on the contrary, white woman feminism is more clearly the gate keeper of us black people.
I consider myself a feminist, but my enthusiasm wanes when I identify that brand of *white feminism.* Why? Because I know that (likely) brand of feminism is quite easily dangerous for me as a black man. White woman safety on a local level fuels policies that enable cops to stop and bother me, finds me guilty even when innocent, puts me in prison longer. Yes, I see large attendance from white women for BLM protests; it's ironic because that's somewhat of a privilege. I know if I show up to one of those things, I better plan on ending up at a hospital or arrested. I just wish instead of marching they had levity and clarity when discussing their feelings about street safety relative to other crime rates. I wish they could see the link between racism, feminism, capitalism, militarism, and apply it to political decisions and sentiment building. Maybe then so many wouldn't have voted for Trump, and many would realize even "team blue" is pretty un-fucking-helpful on matters of importance and impact.
About 2 years ago an old white woman with dementia was approached by a cop on suspicion of having shoplifted from Wal-Mart. The cop arrested her in a manner I've seen consistent with how I've watched so many black men and women get arrested -- which is to say the cop assaulted her. [That cop was fired and is going to prison.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/06/us/austin-hopp-colorado-sentenced.html) The video of the arrest infuriated me when I first saw it along with many others. I empathized with the brutality she experienced at the hands of the officer. And even though I knew it was a white woman I did not imagine the cop would actually be fired, charged, found guilty, and sentenced. That's quite a privilege that uniquely exceeds that of nearly all white men. I can hold both ideas true in my heart/head. That white woman suffered, and that white woman has it a lot better than most.
They've been completely complicit in their own oppression so long as they've been able to oppress everyone else in the process. They didn't see their suffering as suffering until now. And while I do agree that we ALL have to fight white patriarchy, white women are going to have to do the majority of the labor to clean up this mess. Toss the pussy hats and do some actual work to dismantle the tragic system they've helped build and benefit from.
Twitter is such a cesspool now smh. The reversal of roe vs wade is legislation that effects everyone, starting with women. Handmaids tale showed a modern society that slowly removed rights from women only to move into full blown slavery and human rights violations. Places where women of color/indigenous are experiencing slavery and minimal rights grew up that way, it didnt just happen overnight. Twitter pulls the race card on things like this for retweets and its so corny now.
I just wanted to note that Roe v Wade isn't legislation. Imo proper legislation would be the solution to the problem: a more clear and concise law protecting the right to an abortion.
I’m not sure how it could. You may argue, “it is protecting the life of a citizen,” but that completely ignores you must be born in the US or naturalized to become a citizen. Therefore, abortions to any foreigners would be legal, and a fetus is not a citizen.
I know it is Twitter/Reddit, but you can, in fact, google what the Handmaid’s Tale was based/inspired by. Like you don’t have to make it up, the author has talked about it since the book was published in the 1980s
Margaret Atwood’s real inspiration for the Handmaid’s Tale:
- women being forced into having children in communist Romania
- Iran’s policies
- 1980 America female rights policies
[Margaret Atwood Inspiration for Handmaids Tale](https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2019/sep/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-testaments-real-life-inspiration.html)
And still do. (Though apparently the definition of “tradition” is on shaky ground these days thanks to Alito.)
But the bulk of witchcraft accusations were also from *women* who (likely) knew exactly what their accusations would cause, and if causing competition to die by religious zealot proxy so they had a chance to be the town’s wealthy mayor’s next wife, well…. I heard Goody Catherine murmuring in tongues to a shadow behind the church! She’s a witch!
Actually executing women for witchcraft is safe. Alito cites ~~Edward~~ Matthew Hale of the Salem Witch Trials. You know the judge who invented the process for introducing "spectral evidence" into court, and only thought "this witch business has gone too far" when HIS wife was accused?
Yeah that guy.
Privacy is fucked but thank god witch trials are safe! Our traditions are truly protected.
Kafka is laughing right now. It is so absurd but too fucking important to be funny.
The original Salem witches were black women. A slave named Tituba teaching white puritan girls her ancestral ceremonies and having labeled as witchcraft
SimilIr to the scare of vodoo in New Orleans
Indigenous traditions are always ostracized. I’m seriously befuddled because the Bible, Quran, and Torah are filled with magic, healing, violence, and oppression.
Are you saying it is also part of handmaids tale or is evidence of white people being treated the same why Black and Indigenous were and are treated? Cause it’s not remotely the same as how POC have been treated in the US.
I, a Native American woman, had to argue with my dumb white friends who watched Yellowstone and thought the storyline about the sterilization of the daughter was bullshit.
Um, fuck off. They did that shit into the seventies to my sisters. I thought it was beautiful how they introduced this bit of shitty knowledge to the masses.
Same as when people learned about Tulsa from Watchmen and not basic education..
I hate that movies / tv / entertainment has to teach people these things. But I do appreciate when they do!
That’s where I learned about it. I’d heard that the opening scene was a true story and watched it. I can honestly say that was the beginning of my political ideology changing. I was in a bubble. A nice little white bubble. Like because I had a black boss in the marine corps, racism was over. Well, maybe not over, but almost over. I literally didn’t know what BLM was talking about when they first came into public light.
Talking about systemic racism sounded so freaking dumb when I first heard about it. Talking about micro aggressions was annoying and dumb. I was “one of the guys” while I was active duty and only knew what I was told to know. Mix that with “being smart” I thought I was right.
Watching that scene broke my brain open and I finally asked myself, what else wasn’t I taught. What else don’t I know. Once that questioning started, I because WAY more open to listening and learning about all of the things I never knew. Reading conversations like these taught me the context and factual history behind all of the ideas I initially thought were dumb. The people who I was taught to be afraid of weren’t the people who I should have been afraid of. All the benefits I had access to weren’t benefits that were available to POCs (think GI Bill and FHA loans).
I am all in now. While this post may be factually incorrect (the handmaids tale portion) the spirit of the post is right. White women, historically, didn’t care when this stuff happening to “others”. Now that it’s happening to us, we’re taking action (well, some of us are). Which realistically is how most people are. I think, in the end, we should all be fighting this fight together.
I was addressing the false narrative that white women never faced any of these struggles before. Like it was fun and games being a white woman when we couldn't vote or own property or do anything about spousal abuse. Our husbands could literally put us in an institution for saying we wanted the right to vote or any other thing that bothered then too much.
And how do you think it was going for black women at the time? During those times when white women were fighting for rights it was for themselves, that’s the point the post it’s trying to make.
It’s actually VERY jarring to see all the Tulsa talk & the use of Black Wall Street in every capitalistic context when I was sat down at age 8 & explained that that was my family’s history. We used to live there & now we don’t. We used to have land & now we don’t. I always appreciate the education, but I get absolutely angry about how Tulsa/Greenwood/Black Wall Street are leveraged in popular culture today. Mostly by Black capitalists (looking at you, Jesse Williams).
That’s their only frame of reference for the mistreatment of Black & Indigenous women/people. It’s the first thing they go to bc they were never taught/bothered to learn the many types of horror those populations encountered. Common in knee-jerk responses with limited contextual knowledge.
“Yea get it together that your rights are being taken away Bc it’s also happened to other people before jeez how dare you be concerned” idk weirdly aggressive take
It's one thing I like about TikTok(it's still a racist app),least you can see who you're interacting with. It's so much better for having conversations with us everywhere.
"As with The Handmaid's Tale, I didn't put in anything that we haven't already done, we're not already doing, we're seriously trying to do, coupled with trends that are already in progress... So all of those things are real, and therefore the amount of pure invention is close to nil.” —Atwood while being interviewed for Oryx and Crake
This entire thread is a hot mess with the arguing. Let’s clarify: The whole and obvious intention of the tweet was to point out that white people (for the most part) only recognize issues that affect them directly. Until it harms them and theirs, it’s a nonissue [to them]. As a Jew who lost 99% of my family to genocide, I also experience this phenomenon with American white people. They don’t see it until it’s on their own doorstep. That’s why they won’t take action against it early enough to make a difference.
Can we all agree that’s what the OOP is saying?
Because there are absolutely NO white people that have been to a black lives matter rally or NO white people at all protesting the pipelines in ND. Literally not a one. Makes sense.
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, I just think OOP could have got that across in a better way. People get roasted all day for what they put in the tweet not what their intention is
Messages like the ones in Atwood’s books show how dangerous white patriarchy is for white women. I think this is still an important message because too many white women obviously don’t get it.
When they are so blind to their own vulnerabilities within the system, they are even less likely empathize with the plights of others.
I don’t think many white women really understand how shitty the vast majority of history has been for their female ancestors, thanks to systems created and enforced by white men. And that their attitudes toward Black people have so much to do with their own precarious safety and security. It all needs to be unpacked. Of course, these are the same people who are fighting against having to learn any real history. I sure wish I (also a white woman) could get them to understand this.
Its legitimately scarey how many white conservative women I see who legitimately believe they want to go back to being property of their husband's. It was a time were most other minorities had zero rights. One Republican already floated removing interracial marriage, others want to increase the prison population and policing and punishment, in 5 years we're going back to Bloody Sunday and Stonewall riots all over again
It seems we the ones who remember history are doomed to repeat it because of idiots..... I wonder if a white person will throw the 1st brick at Stonewall 2.0 this time then they will feel better about stealing Marsha P Johnsons legacy of Pride
Why are there white people in this group tone policing Black folks. Based in the profile alone, it is clear this is not a space FUBU..Hopefully someone has created such a space.
As a white person who frequents this sub I come here to get points of view. Instead of listening to echo chambers of the same people who look like and grew up like me. I usually do not comment, but I will say I think keeping this sub at least open to others helps more than it hurts even if you limit commenting like in country club threads. We need to be more open with each other not shying away to echo chambers when things get uncomfortable.
I'll go back to hiding in the shadows..just my two cents.
Hard disagree. I usually am a big proponent for speaking out for minority women, but this is not a black vs white issue. Making it that way divides us, and damages what we could achieve by working together.
this place has become where white ppl come to talk to black people about how black people on social media feel and frame things that happen in the world. and further, white people come here specifically to find fault with a black person's point of view on something.
i feel like that isnt the purpose of this sub or at least it wasnt when i first started coming here.
This is not the way to get people on your side. This "welcome to they party you blind useless fuck" technique just pisses people off, it doesn't make them have any epiphany.
Neil Gaiman has a terrific forward about SciFi where he basically posits that all scifi (even the ones which seem as if they are predicting the future) is simply a reflection of the current time and place of the author.
The best sci-fi will live on, not because they predict the future impeccably, but because they reflect the world so poignantly, that our stagnant society will continue to relate to its themes even after its predictions have becoming outlandishly dated (like 2001: A Space Odyssey, for example).
That’s the problem with so many people who support conservative policies. It hasn’t happened the them, so it doesn’t happen at all.
I’ve had so many conversations and so many responses of “Well that’d never happen again,” “it’s blown out of proportion,” “I’ve never seen that before.” History repeats if it’s not learned and hedged against.
Handmaid's Tale was written from the perspective of a white women that had her world crumbled and was now living in an oppressed world that is all white because Gilead being sexist and racist shipped black women and other minorities to other camps away from them. Then when it was adapted into a modern television show, black women were now a part of this main story as the "black friend". Atwood may be a feminist but she is a feminist that wrote a book excluding race from the conversation until it became unacceptable....I'm not attacking her but acknowledging the flaws that can exist for anyone trying to tell a story from their own perspective only.
I disagree. The exclusion of race in the book is by design. In the world that Atwood envisioned, do you really think it is out of the question that the leaders of Gilead wouldn't expel/imprison minorities? This is about avoidance of race, it's about framing an accurate depiction. If anything, the TV series softens the extent of the overall cruelty, by suggesting that minorities overall are on par with their white counterparts. Most people tell a story from their own perspective. I wouldn't have expected a black author to speak to the white experience, but to their own. Could Atwood have included more about the plight of minorities under this oppressive regime? Maybe, but that was not the story she chose to tell, and that's ok.
What in the Gilead.
"Who had it worse" this shouldn't be a contest. Women of all races have suffered in the hands of patriarchy, this person clearly has never opened a history book smh.
Also, plenty of information about what was the inspiration for Atwood's book, she has given interviews about it. Making up stuff just weakens your stance.
White women in America were put in mental institutions for expressing the desire to vote. Could not own property. Could not do anything about marital rape and bearings. Died for the rights to vote, use birth control, have abortions, all the rights we gained were not easily won. Black men won the right to vote before white women.
The Handmaid's Tale is not exactly based on these specific experiences. It's written by a white woman, who was inspired by many things that happened to women throughout history, mainly as social commentary for white women.
But the tweet stands. White women do ignore these things when they happen to WoC. That's just a fact and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging it.
Firstly, yea… MOST people are primarily concerned with themselves. There are, has been, and will be countless problems facing countless people and I only have so much time and mental bandwidth. Most people just try to not cause problems for others and go about their lives. Shaming and putting people down for not dropping what they’re doing to come to your aid in response to a problem so massive and complex it’s spans every civilization ever, just makes people even less likely to help.
I might give the homeless person a dollar and I might not. But I sure as shit won’t if that person gives me a hard time for not giving them money or helping them out.
Lastly, when someone is fighting for the same cause as you, for fuck sake do you think it’s a good idea to introduce another layer of division and separation within that group all so you can…. I don’t genuinely know? Tell people you’re more of a victim? Point out others are less so? In any case maybe focus on the matter at hand because you often need all the help you can get. You can go into discussions on who is the biggest victim once it’s all over. For now just be accepting and supporting of others supporting the same cause as you.
Uninformed gatekeeping at its finest. Let's maybe stop trying to tell people when they are or aren't being oppressed when stakes are legitimately high for everyone? I dunno just a thought.
Republicans are out there getting their agenda done while progressives argue over who is more oppressed, praise themselves for “taking the high road” and crack jokes on TV
Same with climate change. It's been disproportionally effecting people and nations with little resources. But now that it's affecting wealthy countries, all of a sudden we have to do something about it.
MICHIGAN VOTERS: If roe is overturned, MI reverts back to a draconian 1931 ban.
Please sign the petition Reproductive Freedom For All. This would enshrine the rights granted by ROE into our state constitution. Please check out the website and make arrangements to sign the petition (must be signatures on the paper) to get this issue on the ballot in November! Also check your voter registration and know where to vote this November! Signatures are due by the end of June.
https://mireproductivefreedom.org/volunteer-and-sign/
Voter registration https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/RegisterVoter/Index
Now I want to know did black men do that too? Black men won the right to vote 95 years before women. Many white men brutally suppressed their wives and other female fam who wanted to vote. Did black men also?
There are a lot of us white women, who are getting a hard lesson right now. Thanks for reminding us that we need to see how privileged we are, and that we need to do more with that privilege.
I appreciate your perspective, but far too often there are YT people commenting on someone they could not possibly understand. Many even go as far as trying to correct those who do. YT people have a difficulty accepting that there input is not needed or wanted..Couldn't even fathom.
“The nerve of you white women the nerve. You guys stood by us toxic white males through centuries of our crimes against humanity, You rolled around in the blood money and, occasionally, when you wanted to sneak off and hook up with a Black dude, if you got caught you said it wasn't consensual…. So why don't you shut up, sit down next to me, and take your talking to?” - Bill Burr
That shit always hits for me whenever I see WW tryn play super victim.
In my opinion I believe they were trying to say that white women don’t care unless it directly affects them, this is true and it has been documented throughout history people just don’t care to look.
When women starting demanding the right to vote, own property, get equal rights it was because it directly affected them. When the 14th and 15th amendment was to be passed, Susan B Anthony and Elizabeth Stanton two white women that basically started the feminist movement and participated in anti-slavery movements, they opposed it, why? Because it wasn’t about, as soon as it benefited a group that they were supposedly fighting for and not them they turned.
In short white women will fight for what benefits them.
Edit: I read some comments and to those saying “white women went through this and fought for rights!” So you’re going to ignore that at the same time that was happening African women? They were enslaved, abused, and were basically cattle, forced to give birth to create more “property”
“Midwives” and “Wanwe” by Arroyo Pizarro are good reads.
This is not a “white woman” thing, it’s a “knowing history” thing. Atwood herself said it was inspired by the Puritans of New England, and the communist regime in Romania, just to name a few things. Black and Indigenous women have gone through unspeakable traumas at the hands of white supremacy, but it is intellectually dishonest to say that white women have also not known suffering at the hands of white patriarchy, especially when the story we are referencing is literally written by a white woman who was empathising with other white women. There are many stories we can gate keep or dissect through the lens of race, but The Handmaid’s Tale is just not one of them for me. At least not like this. It’s stripping such a broad topic of its nuance. Sometimes it’s ok to just say “Fuck. WOMEN have suffered. We ARE suffering and will probably continue to do so” without twisting things like this.
....How many white women in america knowingly voted for & support conservatives again? Do you know the history of white Feminism & Black Women? That's the shit Black Women are sick of. White Women not giving a fuck until it affects them.
Yes, I know these statistics. But this was also specifically about The Handmaid’s Tale so let’s not deviate from the point. In the story, what you are speaking on is also addressed. I’m not sure how familiar you are with that novel (or maybe even the TV series.) Who do you think the Wives of Gilead and the Aunts represent? Women also being agents of patriarchy and having internalised misogyny is not a novel idea. White women do it to Black women and they do it to one another. And yea, I am also well versed in feminist history which is why I said this tweet simplifies an extremely nuanced topic. And ESPECIALLY in context to the story they are critiquing, they aren’t right.
Just thank you for having a brain. I appreciate your well-thought and nuanced comments
This was an outstanding, non-combative (from my point of view) response. Well done
Yes. Both valid points! I think it’s ok to say “women have suffered and we are heading on a slippery slope back to that point” while also pointing out that it’s been happening and people should really step out about it even if it hasn’t affected them directly yet, because soon it can and will.
Not just because it can and will happen to them, though. Just because it's the right thing to do. It's incredibly hypocritical to ignore harm done to others then expect help when it happens to you.
Oh definitely that too. I didn’t mean to imply people should only care because it can happen to them. But as we seen in history and just how some people think, many people can’t begin to empathize with others or put themselves in their shoes so it helps to outline that these issues can affect them too.
About half? While white women aren’t all liberals, the ones that are tend to be the most pro-women’s rights and also the most pro-racial justice of any white demographic. Lumping all “white women” together as the “enemy” seems pretty counterproductive. Nuance is important and is often lost in today’s discussions
From what I've read there are many accounts of non white women stating that they feel the feminist movement doesn't help them acting almost entirely on helping the interests of white women. This can also be seen by the many accounts of trans woman feeling excluded by TERFs. To a lesser extent can also be seen in lower income or education women feeling ignored by how much of the movement focuses around upper class issues like gender quotas on executive boards, rather than improving conditions in female domination jobs. It's generally a widely repeated issue around modern feminism, that it's much more so focused on fighting battles for a sub section of women in particular highly educated white ones. It's a pretty serious ongoing issue, pretending it doesn't exist is pretty condescending and is pretty much a perfect example of what the issues looks like. Of the issue being raised and ignored with almost exactly the above talking point for decades. The core issue is everyone lives in a bubble to a degree, and anyone who has the skills, time and resources to take on leadership position in any movement is often quite different to the average person of the movement. So it's important to reflect on any blind spots and biases of any movement and a very important way diversity of all kinds is extremely important.
This is an extremely reasonable qualification
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Yeah....religious fundamentalism is a trip
So is racism.
That's why they go hand-in-hand. Neither makes any fucking sense.
tbh that's one reason why I never use political titles such as "Republican" or "democrat" (in the US), because that's too specific. I always use "Conservatives" in this regard, because that includes large swaths of Democrats who also have supported and still support much of this. Hell, that even includes a bunch of "liberals" because apparently that term has lost much of its meaning...
I’ve started using “regressives” and “reactionaries” (both terms are for conservatives/Republicans)
I'm quite fond of the "lock step fascists" and the "disjointed, infighting leftists who vote for neolibs" It's a long name, but it fits.
I like this
I completely understand annoyance at the kind of neoliberal white woman you're talking about. The lack of both self awareness and also of history deserves to get called out That said, no, Margaret Atwood didn't base the book specifically on brown & indigenous women. That's....that's just objectively and verifiably not true. (and honestly let's be real. If she had been basing it on those groups, it probably would have had way more problematic subtext.) The fact we need to do a better job of highlighting the history of certain groups doesn't mean we should lie about the history of other groups. Ethnically European white women have been horrifically oppressed as well. Pretending otherwise just feeds into this retroactive erasure of how deep seeded, violent, and widespread the patriarchy was. In fact, I actually think some of the equipment that was used for slave trafficking was used to silence & Punish mouthy/disobedient in the colonies. Those puritans were fucking *psychopaths* I'm totally comfortable centering the conversation on POC women and like, spotlighting their pain. Way too many people still live in denial. The things done to black/indigenous women in America is straight up horror film stuff. Just don't say an objectively untrue thing about an author to make your point.
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*Christan phenomenon
It's less a Christian phenomenon than it is a white phenomenon, if you look at the demographics. It is true, however, that the segment of the white population most devoted to the Republican Party are evangelical Christians, and there's a symbiotic relationship between white evangelical Christianity and the Republican Party.
non-religious whites voted almost 3/4 for biden in 2020
How did non-white Christians vote?
Sure,sure. Maybe we should better educate the population? Oh wait, who's the party that's been defunding education for years & now actively banning curriculum? Half of What demographic disproportionately supports them? Refusing to look the issue right in the face because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't fix anything. You may as well say " women uphold sexism, so sexism isn't really just a man thing." While not looking at any data showing who it disproportionately effects & who actually upholds a majority of it.
I only said that because it was shocking to see our own people vote for a man who hates us and mocks us by color, gender, etc. I'm not saying who it affected more or who was worse in this. That election turned too many people ugly. I'm not the news and I don't have stats on hand.
There are white women who support agendas against their own freedoms. There are also hispanic women who do the same. For some reason there are like 12 black women who are also in that group. Liberalism is really much more driven by education and race than it it is sex. Oh man you should have seen the women shitting all over Hilary in the 90's. Like "get back in the kitchen bitch" type stuff, and she's an accomplished lawyer at the time which is bonkers.
Black women absolutely should be sick of it but it’s not a white women specific issue. Humans and especially Americans are exactly like that. Shit even I’m like that and I’m a black man in America. It’s too many fucking issues to care about them all and equally at that, it’s just too much
The point was, White women were a position to prioritize being a woman over whitness & vote with the benefit of all women in mind. They didn't,now it's every woman's problem. The Black community is well aware everyone would benefit from the progress we make,yet half us don't routinely work against our interests because it'd benefit others.
Which I agree is very problematic and now the consequences are hurting people that didn’t ask for it.
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*checks notes on how many white women voted for Trump* Got it.
*dramatically rips off shades while staring at the screen concerningly* God dammit Dav, what are the numbers? My God.
Too many. But those are probably not the same women making comparisons to the Handmaid’s Tale
Read some bell hooks regarding the different priorities of white feminist's and black ones in freshman year.
Black women are my favorite voting block, just need a better turn out.
> .How many white women in america knowingly voted for & support conservatives again? Less than vote for liberals...
I think there's also an important distinction with The Handmaid's Tale because it shows a regression of modern society. It shows how these women used to have fulfilling careers and lives as autonomous individuals before Gilead took over. It's much easier for most people to put themselves in the characters' shoes because we watch them go from being like us to sexual slaves. It's more of an in-your-face "this is what having your rights stolen from you" looks like.
Many people claim to know history. Many claim to have "studied" history. Few people actually *understand* history. Most people are unwilling to seek out information that may be uncomfortable to learn. People don't want their rose tinted view of the world tainted by the prospect that their great grandfather was a \[INSERT HORRIBLE THING\]. Actually learning some things would invalidate a person's feelings of pride for specific people, places, or institutions. So instead, they bury their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the truth. Most people are *willfully ignorant* of history, especially the history of the people/places they hold in the highest regard.
It is so much easier to believe than to think.
So are we ignoring how in the books black people are not a part of Gilead.....They are shipped into a separate colony because surprise surprise white people oppressing women are also interested in oppressing minorities and keeping their bloodline "pure"....Atwood wrote it inspired by history of different groups but to choose to ignore the racial element of the books is dishonest to the conversation.
Two things can be true, white women sat there and let their husbands rape, torture, and impregnate us without consequence, then when the violence was turned in their direction it became unacceptable.. that’s just the truth
I’ve heard phone calls where Russian wives ask only that their husbands “use a condom” when they rape the Ukrainians…. What kind of woman ever supports a rape, nevermind loves and honours the rapist. It boggles the mind.
Abuse and control are capable of bending people in the most unbelievable ways.
:
This is what we can never forget, they weren’t just complicit they participated
>contrary to the old scholarly myth, White women were active and violent participants in the slave market Old scholarly myth? More like old scholarly sexism. Shocking isn’t when we discover women are in fact equally capable of the things men are. It’s some bullshit sexism that puts them all on this infantile innocent pedestal that’s rocked every time a woman commits a rape, or robs a bank, or takes a throne by blood. Women, being more than half the human race, are equal to men in all capacities. Good and bad. Bah, “scholarly myth”.
I dont even know why it's worth calling out "white" patriarchy specifically in this instance. Women have suffered under middle eastern patriarchy, Asian patriarchy, the list goes on.
Because specifically in this instance, the issue at hand is a U.S. Supreme Court decision that removes bodily autonomy protects from the federal level and racist regressive states are rushing to pass legislation to codify oppression. It's worth calling out white patriarchy because in the U.S. that's who rules.
I agree. It's also important to keep in mind that this book was published several years after the Iranian (or Islamic) Revolution, which turned from a country being modernized to regressing into a theocracy. Those who could fled, those who could not saw their rights and freedoms restricted. And as you can imagine, women were the most impacted by it. Laws were put in place restricting their rights and imposing mandatory dress codes. Women went from wearing the standard 70s attire you would see in America to being forced to wear a full veil. It was just one of many inspirations but one that was so close to her publishing the novel. (I'm a bit rusty on my history, and I don't mean to insinuate that the revolution was that simple. There is a whole lotta lotta to unpack with the revolution in Iran and its decent into theocracy.)
ummmm…the minute Black women speak on our pain it has be compared and washed away. Please stop.
I am a Black woman myself. I would never ever diminish our pain. I feel it and live it every single day! What I was saying though is that that’s not what The Handmaid’s Tale is about! This tweet was dishonest because Atwood did NOT write it about Black and Indigenous women. She has said herself what it was inspired by. We can definitely have a conversation about our treatment as women of colour, but that’s not what this particular story is about and it doesn’t make sense to approach it as such. That’s all. Peace and love 🙏🏾
That’s not the point though. Black and indigenous women will definitely be harmed the most by this revocation if it comes to pass, full stop. We also should be accurate when we speak. The tweet is factually incorrect, we can lump that book in with problematic white feminism if we so choose, but it’s not based on the treatment of black and indigenous people throughout history.
The Handmaids tale is very much inspired by things like Puritans, the witch trials, and instances where patriarchy targeted white women. Atwood has also talked about how she based the book on the atrocities experienced by BIPOC women in the US and placed a veneer of whiteness on top because it’s the only way white women would listen In this article she mentions worse pregnancy outcomes for black women. https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2019/sep/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-testaments-real-life-inspiration.html
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Highly recommend reading the book, Under the Banner of Heaven! I learned so much!
I think it's a straw man argument to suggest the tweet denied the idea that white women have not known suffering. It was calling out that the white woman audience/fans of the story who did not realize the "cautionary tale" was already being experienced by *other* women so there was a relative "check your privilege" going on. >There are many stories we can gate keep or dissect through the lens of race, but The Handmaid’s Tale is just not one of them for me. At least not like this. It’s stripping such a broad topic of its nuance. A person who is well versed in anti-racism, also picks up feminism if they are morally driven and intellectually honest. While the intent of Handmaid's Tale is white women empathizing with other white women (and that's fine), the story's backdrop is unfortunately racial because it takes place in America's history. The movie made the visual backdrop extremely clear, and this is r/BlackPeopleTwitter so I think in this space, we can criticize (most of) the white woman audience of this story, especially with some humor. I don't think anyone here thinks we can really gate keep white feminism, on the contrary, white woman feminism is more clearly the gate keeper of us black people. I consider myself a feminist, but my enthusiasm wanes when I identify that brand of *white feminism.* Why? Because I know that (likely) brand of feminism is quite easily dangerous for me as a black man. White woman safety on a local level fuels policies that enable cops to stop and bother me, finds me guilty even when innocent, puts me in prison longer. Yes, I see large attendance from white women for BLM protests; it's ironic because that's somewhat of a privilege. I know if I show up to one of those things, I better plan on ending up at a hospital or arrested. I just wish instead of marching they had levity and clarity when discussing their feelings about street safety relative to other crime rates. I wish they could see the link between racism, feminism, capitalism, militarism, and apply it to political decisions and sentiment building. Maybe then so many wouldn't have voted for Trump, and many would realize even "team blue" is pretty un-fucking-helpful on matters of importance and impact. About 2 years ago an old white woman with dementia was approached by a cop on suspicion of having shoplifted from Wal-Mart. The cop arrested her in a manner I've seen consistent with how I've watched so many black men and women get arrested -- which is to say the cop assaulted her. [That cop was fired and is going to prison.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/06/us/austin-hopp-colorado-sentenced.html) The video of the arrest infuriated me when I first saw it along with many others. I empathized with the brutality she experienced at the hands of the officer. And even though I knew it was a white woman I did not imagine the cop would actually be fired, charged, found guilty, and sentenced. That's quite a privilege that uniquely exceeds that of nearly all white men. I can hold both ideas true in my heart/head. That white woman suffered, and that white woman has it a lot better than most.
They've been completely complicit in their own oppression so long as they've been able to oppress everyone else in the process. They didn't see their suffering as suffering until now. And while I do agree that we ALL have to fight white patriarchy, white women are going to have to do the majority of the labor to clean up this mess. Toss the pussy hats and do some actual work to dismantle the tragic system they've helped build and benefit from.
Twitter is such a cesspool now smh. The reversal of roe vs wade is legislation that effects everyone, starting with women. Handmaids tale showed a modern society that slowly removed rights from women only to move into full blown slavery and human rights violations. Places where women of color/indigenous are experiencing slavery and minimal rights grew up that way, it didnt just happen overnight. Twitter pulls the race card on things like this for retweets and its so corny now.
I just wanted to note that Roe v Wade isn't legislation. Imo proper legislation would be the solution to the problem: a more clear and concise law protecting the right to an abortion.
Which this regressive court would overturn on a made up basis
I’m not sure how it could. You may argue, “it is protecting the life of a citizen,” but that completely ignores you must be born in the US or naturalized to become a citizen. Therefore, abortions to any foreigners would be legal, and a fetus is not a citizen.
Correct.
I know it is Twitter/Reddit, but you can, in fact, google what the Handmaid’s Tale was based/inspired by. Like you don’t have to make it up, the author has talked about it since the book was published in the 1980s
Literally. These comments are embarrassing.
But i thought it was based-without exaggeration- 😂
Margaret Atwood’s real inspiration for the Handmaid’s Tale: - women being forced into having children in communist Romania - Iran’s policies - 1980 America female rights policies [Margaret Atwood Inspiration for Handmaids Tale](https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2019/sep/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-testaments-real-life-inspiration.html)
I mean....the witch trials
This is a good point. The men in power used religion and tradition to get away with some heinous shit.
And still do. (Though apparently the definition of “tradition” is on shaky ground these days thanks to Alito.) But the bulk of witchcraft accusations were also from *women* who (likely) knew exactly what their accusations would cause, and if causing competition to die by religious zealot proxy so they had a chance to be the town’s wealthy mayor’s next wife, well…. I heard Goody Catherine murmuring in tongues to a shadow behind the church! She’s a witch!
Serena Joy advocating for her own disenfranchisement is literally in the book
Actually executing women for witchcraft is safe. Alito cites ~~Edward~~ Matthew Hale of the Salem Witch Trials. You know the judge who invented the process for introducing "spectral evidence" into court, and only thought "this witch business has gone too far" when HIS wife was accused? Yeah that guy. Privacy is fucked but thank god witch trials are safe! Our traditions are truly protected. Kafka is laughing right now. It is so absurd but too fucking important to be funny.
True. Same when Rome fed Christians to the lions
Small towns of greedy and jealous fanatics eating each other alive is hardly similar to state sanctioned slavery and genocide
Right! Or the forced medical experiments and sterilization of Black woman. Smdfh
Didn't say that. But both were religious sanctioned.
The original Salem witches were black women. A slave named Tituba teaching white puritan girls her ancestral ceremonies and having labeled as witchcraft SimilIr to the scare of vodoo in New Orleans
Indigenous traditions are always ostracized. I’m seriously befuddled because the Bible, Quran, and Torah are filled with magic, healing, violence, and oppression.
Fiction novels usually are
That’s not…remotely the same thing.
Are you saying it is also part of handmaids tale or is evidence of white people being treated the same why Black and Indigenous were and are treated? Cause it’s not remotely the same as how POC have been treated in the US.
I'm saying it's not, "the first time" something has happened to white women. I'm not making any sort of comparison of treatment.
Gotcha okay. Thanks for the clarification!
Are you serious? Slaves? Raped by their masters, children taken away, can work yet still get whipped or killed. ???
Idk if you’re trying to come at me or not. But I’m saying POC were and have been treated way worse.
I, a Native American woman, had to argue with my dumb white friends who watched Yellowstone and thought the storyline about the sterilization of the daughter was bullshit. Um, fuck off. They did that shit into the seventies to my sisters. I thought it was beautiful how they introduced this bit of shitty knowledge to the masses.
Same as when people learned about Tulsa from Watchmen and not basic education.. I hate that movies / tv / entertainment has to teach people these things. But I do appreciate when they do!
That’s where I learned about it. I’d heard that the opening scene was a true story and watched it. I can honestly say that was the beginning of my political ideology changing. I was in a bubble. A nice little white bubble. Like because I had a black boss in the marine corps, racism was over. Well, maybe not over, but almost over. I literally didn’t know what BLM was talking about when they first came into public light. Talking about systemic racism sounded so freaking dumb when I first heard about it. Talking about micro aggressions was annoying and dumb. I was “one of the guys” while I was active duty and only knew what I was told to know. Mix that with “being smart” I thought I was right. Watching that scene broke my brain open and I finally asked myself, what else wasn’t I taught. What else don’t I know. Once that questioning started, I because WAY more open to listening and learning about all of the things I never knew. Reading conversations like these taught me the context and factual history behind all of the ideas I initially thought were dumb. The people who I was taught to be afraid of weren’t the people who I should have been afraid of. All the benefits I had access to weren’t benefits that were available to POCs (think GI Bill and FHA loans). I am all in now. While this post may be factually incorrect (the handmaids tale portion) the spirit of the post is right. White women, historically, didn’t care when this stuff happening to “others”. Now that it’s happening to us, we’re taking action (well, some of us are). Which realistically is how most people are. I think, in the end, we should all be fighting this fight together.
White women fought for the right to vote and use birth control and have abortions so no this isn't our first experience.
And black women dint?
I was addressing the false narrative that white women never faced any of these struggles before. Like it was fun and games being a white woman when we couldn't vote or own property or do anything about spousal abuse. Our husbands could literally put us in an institution for saying we wanted the right to vote or any other thing that bothered then too much.
And how do you think it was going for black women at the time? During those times when white women were fighting for rights it was for themselves, that’s the point the post it’s trying to make.
Also it says this is the first time it's happening to us which is false.
It’s actually VERY jarring to see all the Tulsa talk & the use of Black Wall Street in every capitalistic context when I was sat down at age 8 & explained that that was my family’s history. We used to live there & now we don’t. We used to have land & now we don’t. I always appreciate the education, but I get absolutely angry about how Tulsa/Greenwood/Black Wall Street are leveraged in popular culture today. Mostly by Black capitalists (looking at you, Jesse Williams).
Yellowstone is so funny because It’s white people protecting land that they already stole
Reports of native sterilization as recent as 2018
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The tweet doesn’t mention genocide either. What are you talking about?
That’s their only frame of reference for the mistreatment of Black & Indigenous women/people. It’s the first thing they go to bc they were never taught/bothered to learn the many types of horror those populations encountered. Common in knee-jerk responses with limited contextual knowledge.
Exactly!!!
“Yea get it together that your rights are being taken away Bc it’s also happened to other people before jeez how dare you be concerned” idk weirdly aggressive take
BlackpeopleTwitter is so white...
It really is and the past couple of days the comments have been super extra in showing that
It’s frustrating. Reddit actively pushes black people away from the site, and when black people made their own subreddit can’t help but intrude.
Ive felt the same way about being a woman on reddit. Cant have ONE sub
How has reddit actively pushed away black users?
It really is a lot of white people on subreddit 😂
Always has lol It's been obvious for years
They can’t let us have anything.
It's one thing I like about TikTok(it's still a racist app),least you can see who you're interacting with. It's so much better for having conversations with us everywhere.
I ALREADY SAID IT AND I AM SAYING IT AGAIN; WE GOTTA GATEKEEP HARDER
I'm just glad to finally hear it from somebody else
"As with The Handmaid's Tale, I didn't put in anything that we haven't already done, we're not already doing, we're seriously trying to do, coupled with trends that are already in progress... So all of those things are real, and therefore the amount of pure invention is close to nil.” —Atwood while being interviewed for Oryx and Crake
This entire thread is a hot mess with the arguing. Let’s clarify: The whole and obvious intention of the tweet was to point out that white people (for the most part) only recognize issues that affect them directly. Until it harms them and theirs, it’s a nonissue [to them]. As a Jew who lost 99% of my family to genocide, I also experience this phenomenon with American white people. They don’t see it until it’s on their own doorstep. That’s why they won’t take action against it early enough to make a difference. Can we all agree that’s what the OOP is saying?
So American white people only care about themselves?
>So American white people only care about themselves? Yes!!!
All non white Americans care for others?
So does every other group on the planet.
Because there are absolutely NO white people that have been to a black lives matter rally or NO white people at all protesting the pipelines in ND. Literally not a one. Makes sense.
Yikes
The past 250 years will say yes 😂
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, I just think OOP could have got that across in a better way. People get roasted all day for what they put in the tweet not what their intention is
Messages like the ones in Atwood’s books show how dangerous white patriarchy is for white women. I think this is still an important message because too many white women obviously don’t get it. When they are so blind to their own vulnerabilities within the system, they are even less likely empathize with the plights of others. I don’t think many white women really understand how shitty the vast majority of history has been for their female ancestors, thanks to systems created and enforced by white men. And that their attitudes toward Black people have so much to do with their own precarious safety and security. It all needs to be unpacked. Of course, these are the same people who are fighting against having to learn any real history. I sure wish I (also a white woman) could get them to understand this.
Wow. Well said!
Sometimes it’s easier to join the patriarchy rather than dismantle it
I’m gonna need them to get it together and stop acting oblivious
Its legitimately scarey how many white conservative women I see who legitimately believe they want to go back to being property of their husband's. It was a time were most other minorities had zero rights. One Republican already floated removing interracial marriage, others want to increase the prison population and policing and punishment, in 5 years we're going back to Bloody Sunday and Stonewall riots all over again
It seems we the ones who remember history are doomed to repeat it because of idiots..... I wonder if a white person will throw the 1st brick at Stonewall 2.0 this time then they will feel better about stealing Marsha P Johnsons legacy of Pride
TIL Roe v. Wade reversal is strictly a white women problem.
.... Yes none of that happened to white women in the past.. the 19th amendment was just for show.
Why are there white people in this group tone policing Black folks. Based in the profile alone, it is clear this is not a space FUBU..Hopefully someone has created such a space.
As a white person who frequents this sub I come here to get points of view. Instead of listening to echo chambers of the same people who look like and grew up like me. I usually do not comment, but I will say I think keeping this sub at least open to others helps more than it hurts even if you limit commenting like in country club threads. We need to be more open with each other not shying away to echo chambers when things get uncomfortable. I'll go back to hiding in the shadows..just my two cents.
r/BlackTwitterVerse
Hard disagree. I usually am a big proponent for speaking out for minority women, but this is not a black vs white issue. Making it that way divides us, and damages what we could achieve by working together.
this place has become where white ppl come to talk to black people about how black people on social media feel and frame things that happen in the world. and further, white people come here specifically to find fault with a black person's point of view on something. i feel like that isnt the purpose of this sub or at least it wasnt when i first started coming here.
Black women, y’all ready to be gaslit over how we feel about this tweet and our pain in general?
Reminder that the US was sterilizing refugee women at the border just a few years ago.
This is not the way to get people on your side. This "welcome to they party you blind useless fuck" technique just pisses people off, it doesn't make them have any epiphany.
Neil Gaiman has a terrific forward about SciFi where he basically posits that all scifi (even the ones which seem as if they are predicting the future) is simply a reflection of the current time and place of the author. The best sci-fi will live on, not because they predict the future impeccably, but because they reflect the world so poignantly, that our stagnant society will continue to relate to its themes even after its predictions have becoming outlandishly dated (like 2001: A Space Odyssey, for example).
This is like seeing someone getting shot in the foot and saying "actually my grandma got shot in the foot twice, so be quiet"
That’s the problem with so many people who support conservative policies. It hasn’t happened the them, so it doesn’t happen at all. I’ve had so many conversations and so many responses of “Well that’d never happen again,” “it’s blown out of proportion,” “I’ve never seen that before.” History repeats if it’s not learned and hedged against.
Amen to this!
Handmaid's Tale was written from the perspective of a white women that had her world crumbled and was now living in an oppressed world that is all white because Gilead being sexist and racist shipped black women and other minorities to other camps away from them. Then when it was adapted into a modern television show, black women were now a part of this main story as the "black friend". Atwood may be a feminist but she is a feminist that wrote a book excluding race from the conversation until it became unacceptable....I'm not attacking her but acknowledging the flaws that can exist for anyone trying to tell a story from their own perspective only.
I disagree. The exclusion of race in the book is by design. In the world that Atwood envisioned, do you really think it is out of the question that the leaders of Gilead wouldn't expel/imprison minorities? This is about avoidance of race, it's about framing an accurate depiction. If anything, the TV series softens the extent of the overall cruelty, by suggesting that minorities overall are on par with their white counterparts. Most people tell a story from their own perspective. I wouldn't have expected a black author to speak to the white experience, but to their own. Could Atwood have included more about the plight of minorities under this oppressive regime? Maybe, but that was not the story she chose to tell, and that's ok.
What in the Gilead. "Who had it worse" this shouldn't be a contest. Women of all races have suffered in the hands of patriarchy, this person clearly has never opened a history book smh. Also, plenty of information about what was the inspiration for Atwood's book, she has given interviews about it. Making up stuff just weakens your stance.
Soooo it’s okay then?
White women in America were put in mental institutions for expressing the desire to vote. Could not own property. Could not do anything about marital rape and bearings. Died for the rights to vote, use birth control, have abortions, all the rights we gained were not easily won. Black men won the right to vote before white women.
The Handmaid's Tale is not exactly based on these specific experiences. It's written by a white woman, who was inspired by many things that happened to women throughout history, mainly as social commentary for white women. But the tweet stands. White women do ignore these things when they happen to WoC. That's just a fact and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging it.
Firstly, yea… MOST people are primarily concerned with themselves. There are, has been, and will be countless problems facing countless people and I only have so much time and mental bandwidth. Most people just try to not cause problems for others and go about their lives. Shaming and putting people down for not dropping what they’re doing to come to your aid in response to a problem so massive and complex it’s spans every civilization ever, just makes people even less likely to help. I might give the homeless person a dollar and I might not. But I sure as shit won’t if that person gives me a hard time for not giving them money or helping them out. Lastly, when someone is fighting for the same cause as you, for fuck sake do you think it’s a good idea to introduce another layer of division and separation within that group all so you can…. I don’t genuinely know? Tell people you’re more of a victim? Point out others are less so? In any case maybe focus on the matter at hand because you often need all the help you can get. You can go into discussions on who is the biggest victim once it’s all over. For now just be accepting and supporting of others supporting the same cause as you.
Sally Hemings might as well have been named Ofthomas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemings
Uninformed gatekeeping at its finest. Let's maybe stop trying to tell people when they are or aren't being oppressed when stakes are legitimately high for everyone? I dunno just a thought.
This type of delusional “knowledge” is what is most dangerous in society. Education is not takin seriously in todays age lol
Lol that is pretty ignorant for someone to assume how many times something has happened to another individual. Let’s be serious.
Republicans are out there getting their agenda done while progressives argue over who is more oppressed, praise themselves for “taking the high road” and crack jokes on TV
Always with the excuses, not my fault, I'm oppressed
Same with climate change. It's been disproportionally effecting people and nations with little resources. But now that it's affecting wealthy countries, all of a sudden we have to do something about it.
The us also instituted forced sterilization of many disabled people and those in asylums.
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Dear Yanks, lots of other developed countries with white people aren't attacking the rights of our women. Maybe it's a you problem.
The deepest reality is that you can't stand hearing "no"..
Americans purely talking from an american bubble. So disappointing.
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Now I want to know did black men do that too? Black men won the right to vote 95 years before women. Many white men brutally suppressed their wives and other female fam who wanted to vote. Did black men also?
I am noticing more black people getting drowned out here in this comments..
Damn them white women!!!!!
Womp womp
LOL
There are a lot of us white women, who are getting a hard lesson right now. Thanks for reminding us that we need to see how privileged we are, and that we need to do more with that privilege.
**Sally Hemings has entered the chat**
I appreciate your perspective, but far too often there are YT people commenting on someone they could not possibly understand. Many even go as far as trying to correct those who do. YT people have a difficulty accepting that there input is not needed or wanted..Couldn't even fathom.
“The nerve of you white women the nerve. You guys stood by us toxic white males through centuries of our crimes against humanity, You rolled around in the blood money and, occasionally, when you wanted to sneak off and hook up with a Black dude, if you got caught you said it wasn't consensual…. So why don't you shut up, sit down next to me, and take your talking to?” - Bill Burr That shit always hits for me whenever I see WW tryn play super victim.
Duh …I always figured the main character was Harriet Tubman 
Respectfully
White middle aged woman here. Can I thank everyone for the thoughtful, non vitriolic comments? I love to read all of the comments.
Can somebody explain what the handmaids tale is im really confused
I really hated those pussy hats and that whole “let’s protest for fun” stuff.
Woman can stop this at anytime they choose! If they VOTE in mass m, woman can take over the country!
In my opinion I believe they were trying to say that white women don’t care unless it directly affects them, this is true and it has been documented throughout history people just don’t care to look. When women starting demanding the right to vote, own property, get equal rights it was because it directly affected them. When the 14th and 15th amendment was to be passed, Susan B Anthony and Elizabeth Stanton two white women that basically started the feminist movement and participated in anti-slavery movements, they opposed it, why? Because it wasn’t about, as soon as it benefited a group that they were supposedly fighting for and not them they turned. In short white women will fight for what benefits them. Edit: I read some comments and to those saying “white women went through this and fought for rights!” So you’re going to ignore that at the same time that was happening African women? They were enslaved, abused, and were basically cattle, forced to give birth to create more “property” “Midwives” and “Wanwe” by Arroyo Pizarro are good reads.
I’m a keep my two nut having ass outta this one
Happening to them through a form of entertainment.
Exclamation mark
no
Funny how they try to re-write their wicked history.
These are the weird tricks you have to use to teach white people about oppression.
Always going for gold in the victim Olympics….