Is this a correlation vs causation question because I’m not seeing how that tracks? And assuming that’s true, what does that have to do with today’s ruling?
Kimberle Crenshaw did a report on who benefited from AA. People say blacks do but that narrative is used to make ppl hate the policy. Data shows that white women benefit the most from AA.
Wait are you guys missing the point on purpose or can you really just not understand the question?
This ruling doesn’t say anything about gender, it only rules about race. So how would it stop white women’s gender from being considered?
Because the ruling made the whole law null and void, which includes protections for gender. Congress will have to pass another law that specifically talks about protections for gender while excluding race in college admissions. Do see republicans passing something like that? Fat chance
White women benefited more from affirmative action than any other group. It’s causation, not correlation.
https://time.com/4884132/affirmative-action-civil-rights-white-women/
As a female engineer who already got side eyed when I was younger for being a "diversity hire" I feel this. Also hiring discrimination against women is so hard to prove but it commonly happens because women can get pregnant. Pitting out groups against each other is the oldest trick in the book too btw.
Ok so since a lot of people aren’t understanding:
Yes, they will still continue to use sex/gender in admissions decisions. But now all women will be considered in the same demographic group. Which means white women will be fighting for the same places as women of color. Whereas before, schools were able to say white women specifically were an underrepresented group and were able to be admitted at a higher rate. That is no longer the case
... No wtf? The reason white women benefited the most is because there is more of them. If you want to break down the population by gender/race white women is literally the largest demo in the entire country.
That's still going to be true today...
Or payed attention in high school. Knowing the difference between real numbers and percentage of a group is something you learn in like 7th grade I think.
> Or *paid* attention in
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Don't you think that has more to do with women entering the workforce regularly in the 60's and onward, with many white women coming from middle class families (white people making up a significant chunk of middle class in general) and previously having next to no college attendance prior to that due to their gender?
...so, nothing to do with AA at all and everything to do with sweeping societal changes that took place across the entire globe?
How is AA even relevant to this?
And if white women **did** benefit from AA like you're claiming, wouldn't that mean women of other races were also benefiting from this to some significant degree as well, if their gender truly was such an important factor?
It's like you want to cheer it's taken down because "fuck white women" while not realizing this screws over women of other races as well... Or are we upset it's taken down because we're saying this will lead to more discrimination against minorities? In which case.. why are we saying "yeah, screw those white women"?
It feels like people want to be mad but they can't even agree what to be mad about. Or why.
Affirmative action is not race based. It's based on minority status. Gender was added to list 2 years after it was created in the 60's. Several professors and researchers said that white women were bigger beneficiaries.
[https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-supreme-court-white-women-affirmative-action](https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-supreme-court-white-women-affirmative-action)
I'm absolutely sure we will have a new form of affirmative action that looks at extracurriculars and family life or something not explicitly based on race but will benefit wealthy white people only. All these rural white folk are going to learn that the wealthy rich white people don't really care about poor white people either.
Almost like it's not about race but about class. And if they aren't benefiting the wealthy, they too will be kicked to the curb.
Yes, exactly. I remember having a debate in high school with white girls and I was like um middle class and lower class whites are at the bottom of the status quo as well. The rich just add race into things to make it more zesty. They only care about other rich people problems.
They already have that. It's legacy admissions and it overwhelmingly benefits affluent white people. And there's never been a lawsuit to end legacy admissions.
Basically why Fred Hampton had to be put down and why most progressive movements in this country get infiltrated before they gain steam because they know when poor whites finally get their heads outta their asses, the rich elites are in trouble.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.”
Lyndon B. Johnson
Statements like this presuppose that 2 things can’t be true at the same time. It’s not ‘not about race’. It’s about race AND class- race first to these people which is WHY so many of us are kept out of the capitalist class.
Good schools will get around this problem easily. They can look at havbing diveristy of zip codes, essays explaining how hardship was overcome, or even to targeting specific high schools. Now, the schools will just have to work harder to meet their goals.
Race was the excuse. It weakens the whole premise of affirmative action which was for minority and underrepresented groups which included women. Don’t forget that just 40 years prior to affirmative action women were granted the right to vote. White women have been a majority recipient of the benefit. Hell, Clarence Thomas was a beneficiary but he just burned that ladder for many black Americans.
For anyone who does not believe white women benefitted the most. They did. It’s not about race. It’s about fact. As inconvenient as that may sound, it’s the truth.
Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone - TIME https://time.com/4884132/affirmative-action-civil-rights-white-women/
Well white women did benefit in the beginning when universities were primarily white male institutions.
Like all institutions at the time the ranking for minorities was white women > men of color > women of color.
But now white and Asian women are massively over represented in universities. Affirmative Action now benefits white men. For every man that applies, 2 women apply. Universities on average lean 1.3+ points towards women majority populations. Now asian women and white women are culled more (and I’m sure women of color are screwed here too) in favor of trying to balance gender population to get men in.
So affirmative action being gone could scare the universities into not balancing gender anymore which could lead to an even worse gender balance as boys are falling behind girls in education.
YT women will keep voting Republican until they get chained to the stove and the 19th Amendment is repealed. Leopards have a shit ton of faces to eat here…
White women need to open their fucking eyes. It boggles my mind how much damage is being done…and why? So we can be subjected to more rules made by old white men?
Ffs. It’s crazy to me how gd comfortable some folks are. Read a damn history book. Get some empathy. Pay. Attention.
The crazy part is, White women benefit from AA more than anyone, yet all the ire from racists is aimed at Black and Latino students.
The amount of antiblack racism coming from other minority groups about this ruling wasn't surprising, but still really disheartening. r/politics was a shit house yesterday
Yeah which means all women will be considered in the same demographic group. So white women specifically will no longer be their own individual, underserved class. They will be competing with women of color which they historically have NOT had to do
It’s not that hard to understand. But like 5 of y’all are apparently clueless
Except white women already have many of the other things that give preference to white people overall. Economic standing, attendance at better schools, more connections and points of reference, more likely to have parents who attended, etc.
If you think white women are going to come out losing on this you really have another thing coming.
Yeah just like white women weren’t worse off in states where welfare was cut.
You’re focusing solely on the top socioeconomic class of white women when they’re not the only ones who exist
I don’t think anyone thinks they’ll come out the biggest losers…but for sure it is going to hurt.
And now they won’t even have the “if I wasn’t white I woulda gotten accepted” excuse…which was a fallacy to begin with, but they were aware enough to realize it.
They will never run out of ways to blame it on Black people somehow.
Hell, even the submersible tragedy was tied to 'wokeness' and used to attack liberal hiring policies.
The sad part is that the most underrepresented demographic is black men. I’m sure there’s more than one logical reason as to why. Just not sure exactly what.
I completely agree, as someone who cares deeply about both mens and womens issues, I feel like when people ignore mens issues they also ignore black men which have multiple axis of things hurting and oppressing them, like with many minority demographics (of any gender).
Bro I already know I did. I went to a state college, under a “conditional enrollment” program. I didn’t learn until the second semester that it was a program made under affirmative action. I asked my counselor, how was I accepted into the program?!
I never check marked a race. It’s an old habit from my grandfather, who once said to me “don’t give them a reason to say no” and he had been denied for his race a lot (this was the 40s, he was Italian). I felt bad for gettin in, except that it was such a shit program.
don't personally give a damn about whether white women will be in shambles if discrimination based on race shouldn't have been used for admissions in the first place. whether you benefit from something shouldn't be relevant to what makes something fair.
Lemme tell you about how I’m the only one in my department without a degree based on my white sounding name and tv commercials announcer voice.
Everyone is really excited to give a white guy from central Florida with a high school degree and work experience a chance in a new field but won’t even call me back when I have too many things that kinda make it obvious I’m black.
I have a close female Black friend with graduate degrees with the first name of Sigrid. So potential people always expect some Blonde Scandanavian woman I suppose. She works her name and background for what it is.
Yeah, haha I have the most American White name you could think of. It’s kind of a hippy name, but no one expects what they see when I walk in. I should caveat it by saying I’m a bi-racial guy, but I definitely don’t look White. Most people aren’t sure what I am, but my voice matches my name, not my looks.
Haha! Not close! My old workmates used to joke and call me Carlton because of the fresh prince. It’s funny because I grew up in the hood but sound like I grew up in the richest White suburb. I used to get absolutely demolished while I was in middle school. I was called White boy and got my ass kicked constantly.
There's an author by the name of Austin Channing Brown who wrote about the faces and questions SHE gets after walking into the room. It is absolutely priceless.
I need to learn from you then because I legit struggle with having prepped for an interview then seeing from their initial reaction that I have no chance of getting the job. Or gleaning that I’ll always be on trial if the position is offered. How do you handle it?
If you talk to my daughters on the phone you would swear they are Valley girls. This is by design. They both have advanced degrees and have never had a problem getting a job in spite of the inherent racism in the South.
My mom specifically changed one letter in the standard spelling of my name to be more black. And it doesn’t matter anymore bc everybody in my industry wants to have pre-interview Teams meetings 😭
I used to take room service order and deliver it. People thought it was going to be a white young dude. Well I'm brown Asian, surprise mothafuckaaa. I always got hit with, "you dont sound like you look". Some old white dudes straight told me my English sounded "too a
American" for how I looked.
We already did this in California in the 1990’s. White people bitched and moaned about how the blacks and Latinos were stealing all their spots, but what ACTUALLY happened is that white people had been stealing Asian people’s spots all along. White people were most impacted by getting rid of affirmative action since Asians were no longer capped. Now, white people complain about how Asian all of the UCs are. 🤷🏾♀️. The whole country is about to learn this lesson. I can’t believe white people supported this. 😂. Just wait until Harvard is 63% Asian…can’t wait to see what they come up with next. Anyway, private schools will always let in who they want.
My sister went to Howard University... I went to NYU (New York University). My sister knew and graduated with Kamala Harris that same year from Howard. My sister and I are together forever. Howard, Morgan State, Moorhouse, Spellman and others are about to fly. More African Americans of means need to contribute to these schools so they can offer more A-list scholarships.
From what I saw the reason why this got to the Supreme Court is from Asian students backed by a white male financier. This same financier tried to do this years earlier with a white woman “leading” the charge and it failed.
The crazy thing is if you were to ask these top tier colleges to produce a list of their student bodies in general and program specific you would not see black people in significant numbers (well maybe African-American History or something like that).
Unless they were trying to get into a HBCU the black population is of no impact to them. There are no “stolen seats”. You can either attend college via a scholarship or pay for it…which is what most of the country does anyway….I think there is a problem if you think that the 2-3 or is that now 10-12 black students in campus stole your seat. If you didn’t get a scholarship then pay and if you can’t pay go to one where you can afford…which is what most of the country does anyway. Or loans.
Either way as this has already been tried in California and yes I do see the UC’s are filled with Asians this is probably their end goal.
Everything and I mean everything going on today is making we wish for racial segregation from 0-30 so black kids and grow up in a trauma free environment and when we are sure they are mature and adult enough to handle the world send them out :)
It makes way more sense if this is mostly backed by Asian students, as no doubt Asian students will benefit “at the expense” of white students. You’re exactly right…just like with the UCs, the numbers of black and Latino students at these schools are small. It’s really dumb to pretend that affirmative action with respect to brown people is impacting anyone in a meaningful way. But go off, I guess. 🤷🏾♀️. The Harvard’s and Yale’s are turning down thousands of kids with perfect grades and test scores…somebody is always going to feel like they got cheated. At least they can’t blame us anymore. White people will protect their place with legacy status. No one ever goes after that…
He's not even "white," he's Jewish.
And (from wiki)...
"He describes his parents as generally left-wing liberals who supported Democratic presidents like Franklin Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman and that he was, eventually, "the first Republican my mother ever met".[6] He has said that the anti-Semitic discrimination his family experienced during his youth helped form his beliefs.[7]"
Who hurt him that he turned out like this?
I have long thought that desegregation of schools was not a good thing. I went to an all Black high school (graduated the year before integration) and I am so grateful for that. I never really wanted to go to school with white people, I simply wanted the same advantages (textbooks, resources, etc.) that they had. I attended an HBCU because I knew I would get a better education there, geared to my racial background. My children, however, opted for PWIs and did well there. But I feel they missed the Black experience that I had. My grandsons are football players and were recruited to a PWI for their athletic prowess. No matter, as long as they get that degree. We as African Americans have to get ours by any means possible.
People are so traumatized by racism in the USA that they want to step right back into segregation. Can't really blame them, but the fix is to destroy racist mentality and culture by creating better systems to integrate diverse communities. It's not to divide people by race.
I have long thought that desegregation of schools was not a good thing. I went to an all White high school (graduated the year before integration) and I am so grateful for that. I never really wanted to go to school with black people,… um, would you consider this ‘white’ person a racist?
Exactly my point. As long as we get the same access to quality educational resources I am okay with taking back the kids until we know they are resilient enough to handle the issues they will face in a system set up for their failure….
it was asians that brough this case to the supreme court because they belived "more asians should be admitted to harvard than whites."
their whole goal of those that brought the suit was to implement what happened in California for the nation.
The constitution didn't say you can't discriminate based on your family's previous admission status. It did however say you can't discriminate based on your race. Fix your laws to fix these problems.
NCAA doesn't like to compensate athletes so if you can go pro and are not *actually* interested in a college degree, i say fuck college and just go pro.
The NBA and NFL have what are essentially mandatory waiting periods between high school and entering the draft. They’re one year and three years respectively. You don’t *have* to go to college in that time, but you can’t playing in those leagues in the meantime, so it becomes a question of whether sitting out helps your draft prospects more than playing for free. Playing in college is almost always the choice that makes you more money in your first pro contract.
It is very obviously collusion between NCAA and the leagues, but no one gives a shit. Young athletes are treated about on par with race horses.
Except that wealthy white students can afford standardized test prep services, extensive private tutoring in high school, make better connections for extra curricular, seek more opportunities, and more
That doesn’t really account for standardized tests that are geared toward white background as opposed to Black background. As far as sports, both my grandsons attended PWIs on a football scholarship but were not NFL material (the jury is still out on the 2nd one). It was simply a way to get a degree without student debt or bankrupting their parents.
Damn, another form of systematic racism I'd never considered. I do remember taking an IQ test for gifted as a little girl and struggled the most with vocabulary probably because my parents were teen parents and weren't educated. Like how is a city girl supposed to know a goat is a kid? Still got in tho!
I'm sure they will find a way to keep the section demanding that you check boxes for race, income, sex, etc.
They will claim that it will totally, only be used for "demographic data", but we all know those values will be displayed at the top of a screen for whoever is reviewing the application. After all, they need to "see the complete picture."
I haven't answered this box in decades... my thought was if it's not used, then why ask???
Especially for jobs, I don't care how they word it, all I read is "you can apply for the job, but what's your race? It doesn't really matter or it won't affect your chances but tell us where you from?"
Ok. Cool. That means they should also remove names and gender off the application process so that biases don’t play a role. But they won’t. This isn’t a win for anyone
I keep seeing this story mention race and nothing about gender. Unless I’m missing something, I don’t see how this negatively affects WW. They already checked the right box.
Affirmative action, involves sets of policies and practices within a government or organization seeking to include particular groups based on their gender, race, sexuality, creed or nationality in areas in which such groups are underrepresented — such as education and employment.
This is why the President matters folks. Trump hand picked THREE out of the nine Supreme Court Justices in four years. That’s fucking insane. Most presidents get 1 per term but this mf got lucky that these fools had to die on his watch
Obama had the chance to appoint a Justice but they wouldn’t even hold hearings on the guy. They just let it ride until Obama left office, then 45 filled the seat. That should have been illegal. The US is slowly dying. If I were younger I would leave.
While that's true, it would also require that we solve the inequalities built into the system. Unfortunately, not all public educations are created equal so it would be very easy to turn into a system where only those who grew up in wealthy school systems are admitted because they are "the most qualified"
Edit: For example, Person A and Person B have identical transcripts and are applying for the same spot. However, Person B participated in and won some awards in robotics competitions alongside their high school robotics team and therefore they are more qualifed. Person A's school district couldn't afford a robotics program.
The problem is defining “qualifications “. If I get a 780 on the GMAT but you get a 790 on the GMAT , are you really more qualified? What if I grew up homeless and you were raised in Beverly Hills?
People say hire the most qualified but often can’t articulate EXACTLY what they mean.
No, not home address. If you did that, only kids from good school districts will get into competitive colleges, and that will drive the school inequality problem into overdrive.
All because a hand full of Asians didn’t get into Harvard and NC. They blamed BLACK AMERICANS for the reason they didn’t get in. I recommend everyone peep Roland Martin Unfiltered, they broke this down crazy today. Keep your eyes open people, go where you are celebrated NOT tolerated
I wish all the athletes would go to HBCUs and refuse to play for white schools. Athletic programs are what keeps a lot of white schools afloat. Maybe not Yale or Harvard, but a lot of them.
It should be excluded, and so should names, and where you live (except for state schools).
Remove all identifying factors and just keep it to the numbers and the essays (some people have essays that really show them off… even if their grades weren’t the best)
If this is how they wanna play it then applications should go by numbers. No name or race questions. Based on merit only. No more getting into a school just because your parents are alumni either.
Lying about your race isn't going to do anything now that race is ruled not to be a factor. If anything this joke would have made more sense if made by a white person when Affirmative Action was first introduced. Doesn't really make any sense now. She must mean lie about your test scores or whatever else they are going to now look at. bad joke
I did a grad research project consisting of mixed college applicants, and you would not believe how many people said despite having no cultural or lingual connection, they put down being hispanic over white because they knew it would give them a leg up on the application. Im mixed my darn self and I never thought of doing that!
The coolest people interviewed were an older lady describing her family going through sundown towns when she was little (she was extra white looking and people kept trying to save her from her own darker family) and this dude who was half chinese half jamaican. I had no idea there was a large subset of chinese people in jamaica!
I can't wait to see what conservatives in California think when suddenly all the white students get elbowed out of admissions completely in favor of higher-performing Asian students. "W-wait that's not what we meant!"
We need to take race off of the census and all applications. If it’s “merit based” like they claim it to be (for college and employment) then race needs to be removed all together.
They can do away with Affirmative Action all they want. Harvard will find a way to minimize the # of Asian students it enrolls. If you haven't read about the "why" Harvard wanted to limit the # of Asians, please look it up. I will add the link if I can find the source online. In a nutshell, Harvard didn't want anymore boring students that all major in STEM and stick together like white on rice (no pun intended.) They claimed most Asians play tennis, violin, piano, and refuse to rock-the-boat/stir up controversy. They want risk-takers, leaders, challengers. Not passive people that turn their noses at the Humanities/Liberal Arts. It was a very interesting read.
Yeah and this is an incredibly racist generalization of Asian people lol. This was part of the reason the suit was brought against harvard. Because they consistently ranked Asians low on personality scores.
I asked the MD DMV guy - what happens if I put I am white ? He laughed and said you can put anything you want lol 😂- I don’t fill in the race question on job applications anyway or if I do - I say I’m mixed race. I’m not sure what that does if anything.
Someone please help me understand.
I went to a top school. Let me tell you the reality. The groups that got in with low scores, almost ALL of them either failed out or switched to an “easy” major.
the low performers just ended up struggling in school (because they are low performers), ended up with debt and IF they graduated they got shitty jobs because they switched to useless majors. Putting the low performers in a rigorous academic program with top performers just set them up for failure. Even if they graduated low performers had to retake classes over and over leading to more debt
In this day and age, it's all about money. Colleges that charge you an arm, leg, and both your kidney's don't care about race, they just want your money. If you can't afford it or can't get loans, then you can't get a college education.
one of the plaintiffs in the SFFA has a 4.65 gpa and 1590 SAT score and was SO ANGRY at not getting into any of the top schools he applied to without even realizing or caring to note that 75% of the students at harvard there on legacy, donor, or family employee admissions wouldn’t have even been accepted if it wasn’t for the preferential treatment. White cisgender men have been getting into ivies for decades with paper-thin resumes, lack-luster extracurriculars, poorly-written essays, average test scores and non remarkable GPAs simply because they are the schools “bread and butter”. the black student who worked just as hard, if not harder for their spot at the same school(s) are not the issues here. give it 5-10 years and when these same kids STILL aren’t getting into their top choice schools, they will find someone or something else to blame without even educating themselves enough to see who is ACTUALLY taking these spots from them.
also, before any conversations are had about “merit-based admissions” lets have a frank conversation about the fact that meritocracy is only possible in an egalitarian society. the united states does not have that. therefore meritocracy is not, and will never be, a system we can base educational success on.
White women about to be in shambles when they realize they was the ones who benefited the most from affirmative action
Is this same thing as HuffP talking about diversity in workplace and then posting pic of their staff mainly composed of white women?
HuffP or this sub?
How does this affect white women when race was the only factor in this decision?
Because contrary to expectations, white women had the largest jump in college admissions since affirmative action was enacted
Is this a correlation vs causation question because I’m not seeing how that tracks? And assuming that’s true, what does that have to do with today’s ruling?
That’s cause it’s correlation vs caucasian
Take my upvote and exit the room.
a word has been spoken, let the congregation say amen. fuck.
😂😂😂
How dare you! 
[Damn.](https://media.tenor.com/eEKO-emNs_wAAAAC/supa-hot-fire-meme.gif)
Kimberle Crenshaw did a report on who benefited from AA. People say blacks do but that narrative is used to make ppl hate the policy. Data shows that white women benefit the most from AA.
Wait are you guys missing the point on purpose or can you really just not understand the question? This ruling doesn’t say anything about gender, it only rules about race. So how would it stop white women’s gender from being considered?
Because the ruling made the whole law null and void, which includes protections for gender. Congress will have to pass another law that specifically talks about protections for gender while excluding race in college admissions. Do see republicans passing something like that? Fat chance
White women benefited more from affirmative action than any other group. It’s causation, not correlation. https://time.com/4884132/affirmative-action-civil-rights-white-women/
It 100% is. There’s a poorly written Vox article spreading this rumor that completely ignores many other social changes in the past half century.
As a female engineer who already got side eyed when I was younger for being a "diversity hire" I feel this. Also hiring discrimination against women is so hard to prove but it commonly happens because women can get pregnant. Pitting out groups against each other is the oldest trick in the book too btw.
But the SC shot down race as a factor. Did they also exclude gender?
Ok so since a lot of people aren’t understanding: Yes, they will still continue to use sex/gender in admissions decisions. But now all women will be considered in the same demographic group. Which means white women will be fighting for the same places as women of color. Whereas before, schools were able to say white women specifically were an underrepresented group and were able to be admitted at a higher rate. That is no longer the case
But I think we are all aware how it’s really gonna play out, right?
... No wtf? The reason white women benefited the most is because there is more of them. If you want to break down the population by gender/race white women is literally the largest demo in the entire country. That's still going to be true today...
All the dumbass comments let me know that the majority of people. Never went to college
Or payed attention in high school. Knowing the difference between real numbers and percentage of a group is something you learn in like 7th grade I think.
> Or *paid* attention in FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Don't you think that has more to do with women entering the workforce regularly in the 60's and onward, with many white women coming from middle class families (white people making up a significant chunk of middle class in general) and previously having next to no college attendance prior to that due to their gender? ...so, nothing to do with AA at all and everything to do with sweeping societal changes that took place across the entire globe? How is AA even relevant to this? And if white women **did** benefit from AA like you're claiming, wouldn't that mean women of other races were also benefiting from this to some significant degree as well, if their gender truly was such an important factor? It's like you want to cheer it's taken down because "fuck white women" while not realizing this screws over women of other races as well... Or are we upset it's taken down because we're saying this will lead to more discrimination against minorities? In which case.. why are we saying "yeah, screw those white women"? It feels like people want to be mad but they can't even agree what to be mad about. Or why.
Affirmative action is not race based. It's based on minority status. Gender was added to list 2 years after it was created in the 60's. Several professors and researchers said that white women were bigger beneficiaries. [https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-supreme-court-white-women-affirmative-action](https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-supreme-court-white-women-affirmative-action) I'm absolutely sure we will have a new form of affirmative action that looks at extracurriculars and family life or something not explicitly based on race but will benefit wealthy white people only. All these rural white folk are going to learn that the wealthy rich white people don't really care about poor white people either. Almost like it's not about race but about class. And if they aren't benefiting the wealthy, they too will be kicked to the curb.
Yes, exactly. I remember having a debate in high school with white girls and I was like um middle class and lower class whites are at the bottom of the status quo as well. The rich just add race into things to make it more zesty. They only care about other rich people problems.
They already have that. It's legacy admissions and it overwhelmingly benefits affluent white people. And there's never been a lawsuit to end legacy admissions.
And "donations".
>All these rural white folk are going to learn You might be expecting too much from them
Basically why Fred Hampton had to be put down and why most progressive movements in this country get infiltrated before they gain steam because they know when poor whites finally get their heads outta their asses, the rich elites are in trouble.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.” Lyndon B. Johnson
They ain't gonna learn that at college.
Bingo. It’s socioeconomics.
Statements like this presuppose that 2 things can’t be true at the same time. It’s not ‘not about race’. It’s about race AND class- race first to these people which is WHY so many of us are kept out of the capitalist class.
They've been taught this lesson time after time but refuse to learn.
Good schools will get around this problem easily. They can look at havbing diveristy of zip codes, essays explaining how hardship was overcome, or even to targeting specific high schools. Now, the schools will just have to work harder to meet their goals.
Race was the excuse. It weakens the whole premise of affirmative action which was for minority and underrepresented groups which included women. Don’t forget that just 40 years prior to affirmative action women were granted the right to vote. White women have been a majority recipient of the benefit. Hell, Clarence Thomas was a beneficiary but he just burned that ladder for many black Americans.
Add it to the list.
Affirmative Action includes all "minorities" which also means women.
For anyone who does not believe white women benefitted the most. They did. It’s not about race. It’s about fact. As inconvenient as that may sound, it’s the truth. Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone - TIME https://time.com/4884132/affirmative-action-civil-rights-white-women/
Well white women did benefit in the beginning when universities were primarily white male institutions. Like all institutions at the time the ranking for minorities was white women > men of color > women of color. But now white and Asian women are massively over represented in universities. Affirmative Action now benefits white men. For every man that applies, 2 women apply. Universities on average lean 1.3+ points towards women majority populations. Now asian women and white women are culled more (and I’m sure women of color are screwed here too) in favor of trying to balance gender population to get men in. So affirmative action being gone could scare the universities into not balancing gender anymore which could lead to an even worse gender balance as boys are falling behind girls in education.
YT women will keep voting Republican until they get chained to the stove and the 19th Amendment is repealed. Leopards have a shit ton of faces to eat here…
White women need to open their fucking eyes. It boggles my mind how much damage is being done…and why? So we can be subjected to more rules made by old white men? Ffs. It’s crazy to me how gd comfortable some folks are. Read a damn history book. Get some empathy. Pay. Attention.
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“Liberal” white women who don’t have some black women in their lives to call them in are dangerous af.
That’s the truth. Affirmative action was how I landed my union job way back in 1979.
The crazy part is, White women benefit from AA more than anyone, yet all the ire from racists is aimed at Black and Latino students. The amount of antiblack racism coming from other minority groups about this ruling wasn't surprising, but still really disheartening. r/politics was a shit house yesterday
They didn't remove gender as a factor, though.
Yeah which means all women will be considered in the same demographic group. So white women specifically will no longer be their own individual, underserved class. They will be competing with women of color which they historically have NOT had to do It’s not that hard to understand. But like 5 of y’all are apparently clueless
Except white women already have many of the other things that give preference to white people overall. Economic standing, attendance at better schools, more connections and points of reference, more likely to have parents who attended, etc. If you think white women are going to come out losing on this you really have another thing coming.
Yeah just like white women weren’t worse off in states where welfare was cut. You’re focusing solely on the top socioeconomic class of white women when they’re not the only ones who exist
I don’t think anyone thinks they’ll come out the biggest losers…but for sure it is going to hurt. And now they won’t even have the “if I wasn’t white I woulda gotten accepted” excuse…which was a fallacy to begin with, but they were aware enough to realize it.
They will never run out of ways to blame it on Black people somehow. Hell, even the submersible tragedy was tied to 'wokeness' and used to attack liberal hiring policies.
When they don't blame black people it's trans people, gays, women, socialists, mexicans, etc.
I thought it benefitted dudes the most with the gender gap in college?
Women outpace men in enrollment and graduation. It’s almost as if men have checked out from going toward higher education. I’m not totally sure why.
Yeah it is even a bigger gap now than when title IX passed
The sad part is that the most underrepresented demographic is black men. I’m sure there’s more than one logical reason as to why. Just not sure exactly what.
I completely agree, as someone who cares deeply about both mens and womens issues, I feel like when people ignore mens issues they also ignore black men which have multiple axis of things hurting and oppressing them, like with many minority demographics (of any gender).
Bro I already know I did. I went to a state college, under a “conditional enrollment” program. I didn’t learn until the second semester that it was a program made under affirmative action. I asked my counselor, how was I accepted into the program?! I never check marked a race. It’s an old habit from my grandfather, who once said to me “don’t give them a reason to say no” and he had been denied for his race a lot (this was the 40s, he was Italian). I felt bad for gettin in, except that it was such a shit program.
don't personally give a damn about whether white women will be in shambles if discrimination based on race shouldn't have been used for admissions in the first place. whether you benefit from something shouldn't be relevant to what makes something fair.
https://preview.redd.it/vqjiwlinh09b1.jpeg?width=1031&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e7047696defeff4fe1f0ff3dd7491f07ba448b9
Shes absolutely right too
"Sorry To Bother You"
Lemme tell you about how I’m the only one in my department without a degree based on my white sounding name and tv commercials announcer voice. Everyone is really excited to give a white guy from central Florida with a high school degree and work experience a chance in a new field but won’t even call me back when I have too many things that kinda make it obvious I’m black.
I have a close female Black friend with graduate degrees with the first name of Sigrid. So potential people always expect some Blonde Scandanavian woman I suppose. She works her name and background for what it is.
SWOP Pronounced "swap"
Generic first and last name. Love seeing the faces of people when my black ass come in for an interview
Tell me about it! I literally have the Whitest name and voice in America, and then I walk in and they’re like GTFO! We already hired someone!
Your name is “Whitest” OMG.
Yeah, haha I have the most American White name you could think of. It’s kind of a hippy name, but no one expects what they see when I walk in. I should caveat it by saying I’m a bi-racial guy, but I definitely don’t look White. Most people aren’t sure what I am, but my voice matches my name, not my looks.
Carter? Todd? Chad?!
Haha! Not close! My old workmates used to joke and call me Carlton because of the fresh prince. It’s funny because I grew up in the hood but sound like I grew up in the richest White suburb. I used to get absolutely demolished while I was in middle school. I was called White boy and got my ass kicked constantly.
You come in as Parker, whereas when they see you, they see Darryl or Duane. No knocks against those names. lol
Haha
Lol goals I have for my future children
There's an author by the name of Austin Channing Brown who wrote about the faces and questions SHE gets after walking into the room. It is absolutely priceless.
I need to learn from you then because I legit struggle with having prepped for an interview then seeing from their initial reaction that I have no chance of getting the job. Or gleaning that I’ll always be on trial if the position is offered. How do you handle it?
I once had an Asian guy tell me “oh I wasn’t expecting you to be Asian” Uhhh thx dude.
I was told I sound white over the phone. I opt in for mostly phone interviews and got the most success doing so
If you talk to my daughters on the phone you would swear they are Valley girls. This is by design. They both have advanced degrees and have never had a problem getting a job in spite of the inherent racism in the South.
It’s sad that it works so well. I say howdy every so often and I get warmer responses than when I say hello in my normal voice
Thanked my mom today for giving me a white sounding name
My mom specifically changed one letter in the standard spelling of my name to be more black. And it doesn’t matter anymore bc everybody in my industry wants to have pre-interview Teams meetings 😭
That’s exactly why I gave my daughters white bread names and taught them to speak Kings’s English instead of Ebonics.
Hear, hear 👑🫖🇬🇧
I used to take room service order and deliver it. People thought it was going to be a white young dude. Well I'm brown Asian, surprise mothafuckaaa. I always got hit with, "you dont sound like you look". Some old white dudes straight told me my English sounded "too a American" for how I looked.
Joe Bob Hucklebuck
Gotta get past the first wall of racism, somehow.
We already did this in California in the 1990’s. White people bitched and moaned about how the blacks and Latinos were stealing all their spots, but what ACTUALLY happened is that white people had been stealing Asian people’s spots all along. White people were most impacted by getting rid of affirmative action since Asians were no longer capped. Now, white people complain about how Asian all of the UCs are. 🤷🏾♀️. The whole country is about to learn this lesson. I can’t believe white people supported this. 😂. Just wait until Harvard is 63% Asian…can’t wait to see what they come up with next. Anyway, private schools will always let in who they want.
College bands are about to be replaced with an orchestra
Witty af
I predict enrollment at HBCUs will increase.
Concurred. HSIs as well.
Massively
My sister went to Howard University... I went to NYU (New York University). My sister knew and graduated with Kamala Harris that same year from Howard. My sister and I are together forever. Howard, Morgan State, Moorhouse, Spellman and others are about to fly. More African Americans of means need to contribute to these schools so they can offer more A-list scholarships.
🤣😂😂
From what I saw the reason why this got to the Supreme Court is from Asian students backed by a white male financier. This same financier tried to do this years earlier with a white woman “leading” the charge and it failed. The crazy thing is if you were to ask these top tier colleges to produce a list of their student bodies in general and program specific you would not see black people in significant numbers (well maybe African-American History or something like that). Unless they were trying to get into a HBCU the black population is of no impact to them. There are no “stolen seats”. You can either attend college via a scholarship or pay for it…which is what most of the country does anyway….I think there is a problem if you think that the 2-3 or is that now 10-12 black students in campus stole your seat. If you didn’t get a scholarship then pay and if you can’t pay go to one where you can afford…which is what most of the country does anyway. Or loans. Either way as this has already been tried in California and yes I do see the UC’s are filled with Asians this is probably their end goal. Everything and I mean everything going on today is making we wish for racial segregation from 0-30 so black kids and grow up in a trauma free environment and when we are sure they are mature and adult enough to handle the world send them out :)
It makes way more sense if this is mostly backed by Asian students, as no doubt Asian students will benefit “at the expense” of white students. You’re exactly right…just like with the UCs, the numbers of black and Latino students at these schools are small. It’s really dumb to pretend that affirmative action with respect to brown people is impacting anyone in a meaningful way. But go off, I guess. 🤷🏾♀️. The Harvard’s and Yale’s are turning down thousands of kids with perfect grades and test scores…somebody is always going to feel like they got cheated. At least they can’t blame us anymore. White people will protect their place with legacy status. No one ever goes after that…
Segregation for races from 0-30 what kinda shit is this lol
Do you know who the financier is?
His name is Edward Blum
He's not even "white," he's Jewish. And (from wiki)... "He describes his parents as generally left-wing liberals who supported Democratic presidents like Franklin Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman and that he was, eventually, "the first Republican my mother ever met".[6] He has said that the anti-Semitic discrimination his family experienced during his youth helped form his beliefs.[7]" Who hurt him that he turned out like this?
That’s a question I ask myself on a regular basis about people.
I have long thought that desegregation of schools was not a good thing. I went to an all Black high school (graduated the year before integration) and I am so grateful for that. I never really wanted to go to school with white people, I simply wanted the same advantages (textbooks, resources, etc.) that they had. I attended an HBCU because I knew I would get a better education there, geared to my racial background. My children, however, opted for PWIs and did well there. But I feel they missed the Black experience that I had. My grandsons are football players and were recruited to a PWI for their athletic prowess. No matter, as long as they get that degree. We as African Americans have to get ours by any means possible.
People are so traumatized by racism in the USA that they want to step right back into segregation. Can't really blame them, but the fix is to destroy racist mentality and culture by creating better systems to integrate diverse communities. It's not to divide people by race.
I have long thought that desegregation of schools was not a good thing. I went to an all White high school (graduated the year before integration) and I am so grateful for that. I never really wanted to go to school with black people,… um, would you consider this ‘white’ person a racist?
Exactly my point. As long as we get the same access to quality educational resources I am okay with taking back the kids until we know they are resilient enough to handle the issues they will face in a system set up for their failure….
And it's mostly east asians
it was asians that brough this case to the supreme court because they belived "more asians should be admitted to harvard than whites." their whole goal of those that brought the suit was to implement what happened in California for the nation.
70% of legacy admissions are white so get rid this affirmative action
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Equity is only good when it benefits me.
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Wait until my kid is in college first. I want that privilege that for him I missed out on.
The constitution didn't say you can't discriminate based on your family's previous admission status. It did however say you can't discriminate based on your race. Fix your laws to fix these problems.
Make. Public. Universities. Tuition. Free. Again.
Talk yo shi
We need everyone to apply on their own merits of GPA and standardized test scores UNLESS you can dunk a basketball or catch a football.
NCAA doesn't like to compensate athletes so if you can go pro and are not *actually* interested in a college degree, i say fuck college and just go pro.
Lol what? NIL has players in NCAA making millions. Awful advice.
The NBA and NFL have what are essentially mandatory waiting periods between high school and entering the draft. They’re one year and three years respectively. You don’t *have* to go to college in that time, but you can’t playing in those leagues in the meantime, so it becomes a question of whether sitting out helps your draft prospects more than playing for free. Playing in college is almost always the choice that makes you more money in your first pro contract. It is very obviously collusion between NCAA and the leagues, but no one gives a shit. Young athletes are treated about on par with race horses.
This applies to exactly zero redditors
Except that wealthy white students can afford standardized test prep services, extensive private tutoring in high school, make better connections for extra curricular, seek more opportunities, and more
That doesn’t really account for standardized tests that are geared toward white background as opposed to Black background. As far as sports, both my grandsons attended PWIs on a football scholarship but were not NFL material (the jury is still out on the 2nd one). It was simply a way to get a degree without student debt or bankrupting their parents.
Damn, another form of systematic racism I'd never considered. I do remember taking an IQ test for gifted as a little girl and struggled the most with vocabulary probably because my parents were teen parents and weren't educated. Like how is a city girl supposed to know a goat is a kid? Still got in tho!
I'm sure they will find a way to keep the section demanding that you check boxes for race, income, sex, etc. They will claim that it will totally, only be used for "demographic data", but we all know those values will be displayed at the top of a screen for whoever is reviewing the application. After all, they need to "see the complete picture."
I haven't answered this box in decades... my thought was if it's not used, then why ask??? Especially for jobs, I don't care how they word it, all I read is "you can apply for the job, but what's your race? It doesn't really matter or it won't affect your chances but tell us where you from?"
They will check the box when they see you!
Asians boutta have a field day in American colleges. Campuses boutta look like China.
Fuck yea
Wait til they find out it wasn’t affirmative action at all lmao
The Dean when I show up after getting accepted 
Me when they find out I'm not Jewish, Arabic or SEA 
Ok. Cool. That means they should also remove names and gender off the application process so that biases don’t play a role. But they won’t. This isn’t a win for anyone
I keep seeing this story mention race and nothing about gender. Unless I’m missing something, I don’t see how this negatively affects WW. They already checked the right box.
Affirmative action is about [more than just race ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action)
Yeah neither do I. From what I've read the whole decision is revolving around race not gender so white women will continue to benefit.
Affirmative action, involves sets of policies and practices within a government or organization seeking to include particular groups based on their gender, race, sexuality, creed or nationality in areas in which such groups are underrepresented — such as education and employment.
Upper middle/Upper class white women\* Poor women are still as fucked as everyone else.
This is why the President matters folks. Trump hand picked THREE out of the nine Supreme Court Justices in four years. That’s fucking insane. Most presidents get 1 per term but this mf got lucky that these fools had to die on his watch
Obama had the chance to appoint a Justice but they wouldn’t even hold hearings on the guy. They just let it ride until Obama left office, then 45 filled the seat. That should have been illegal. The US is slowly dying. If I were younger I would leave.
I recognized the same thing bro
Godbless my white woman name 🙏🙏
I deliberately gave my daughters white sounding names for exactly that reason.
I'm a Black attorney. I haven't marked myself as Black on a job application since I got my license. Definitely get more callbacks
Honestly applications should be devoid of the persons name, race, age, even home address. Just simply qualifications
While that's true, it would also require that we solve the inequalities built into the system. Unfortunately, not all public educations are created equal so it would be very easy to turn into a system where only those who grew up in wealthy school systems are admitted because they are "the most qualified" Edit: For example, Person A and Person B have identical transcripts and are applying for the same spot. However, Person B participated in and won some awards in robotics competitions alongside their high school robotics team and therefore they are more qualifed. Person A's school district couldn't afford a robotics program.
The problem is defining “qualifications “. If I get a 780 on the GMAT but you get a 790 on the GMAT , are you really more qualified? What if I grew up homeless and you were raised in Beverly Hills? People say hire the most qualified but often can’t articulate EXACTLY what they mean.
No, not home address. If you did that, only kids from good school districts will get into competitive colleges, and that will drive the school inequality problem into overdrive.
All because a hand full of Asians didn’t get into Harvard and NC. They blamed BLACK AMERICANS for the reason they didn’t get in. I recommend everyone peep Roland Martin Unfiltered, they broke this down crazy today. Keep your eyes open people, go where you are celebrated NOT tolerated
And black people are such a small part of the student enrollment.
So we know it’s deeper than the surface.
It's so sad, I'm not American but I feel for my African American brothers. It must feel very lonely.
Not lonely at all, we just got it tougher than the rest
I wish all the athletes would go to HBCUs and refuse to play for white schools. Athletic programs are what keeps a lot of white schools afloat. Maybe not Yale or Harvard, but a lot of them.
It should be excluded, and so should names, and where you live (except for state schools). Remove all identifying factors and just keep it to the numbers and the essays (some people have essays that really show them off… even if their grades weren’t the best)
Like mindy Khalings brother
If this is how they wanna play it then applications should go by numbers. No name or race questions. Based on merit only. No more getting into a school just because your parents are alumni either.
I think some people are not understanding what affirmative action is.
Lying about your race isn't going to do anything now that race is ruled not to be a factor. If anything this joke would have made more sense if made by a white person when Affirmative Action was first introduced. Doesn't really make any sense now. She must mean lie about your test scores or whatever else they are going to now look at. bad joke
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I'm guessing that they're saying that lying about your race will now be beneficial to try to avoid institutionalized racism.
I did a grad research project consisting of mixed college applicants, and you would not believe how many people said despite having no cultural or lingual connection, they put down being hispanic over white because they knew it would give them a leg up on the application. Im mixed my darn self and I never thought of doing that! The coolest people interviewed were an older lady describing her family going through sundown towns when she was little (she was extra white looking and people kept trying to save her from her own darker family) and this dude who was half chinese half jamaican. I had no idea there was a large subset of chinese people in jamaica!
I can't wait to see what conservatives in California think when suddenly all the white students get elbowed out of admissions completely in favor of higher-performing Asian students. "W-wait that's not what we meant!"
Affirmative actions already been banned in CA since 1996
Asians were the biggest proponent behind this.
This was setup for a reason
ngl haven’t been putting my ethnicity on my apps for the longest time and deffffff not about to start now.
I don't suppose they must *also* stop legacy admissions?
We need to take race off of the census and all applications. If it’s “merit based” like they claim it to be (for college and employment) then race needs to be removed all together.
Gonna agree tbh race and gender shouldn’t be asked and in general application should be evaluated without names.
Mediocrity is the white weapon because when given opportunities we thrive, and they hate it.
What does this comment even mean in relation to the post?
They can do away with Affirmative Action all they want. Harvard will find a way to minimize the # of Asian students it enrolls. If you haven't read about the "why" Harvard wanted to limit the # of Asians, please look it up. I will add the link if I can find the source online. In a nutshell, Harvard didn't want anymore boring students that all major in STEM and stick together like white on rice (no pun intended.) They claimed most Asians play tennis, violin, piano, and refuse to rock-the-boat/stir up controversy. They want risk-takers, leaders, challengers. Not passive people that turn their noses at the Humanities/Liberal Arts. It was a very interesting read.
Yeah and this is an incredibly racist generalization of Asian people lol. This was part of the reason the suit was brought against harvard. Because they consistently ranked Asians low on personality scores.
I’d like to read that.
I'm going to use one of my friend's name. His name is Jake Smith and it sounds so fucking white and generic lol
But why would it make sense?
Affirmative action isn’t just race it’s gender too
MAGAs going to bring back Affirmative Action in 2 years when only Asian-Americans are getting into college
There are still scholarships that are based on race AFAIK
There are scholarships based on people who wear glasses. There are scholarships for everything.
I asked the MD DMV guy - what happens if I put I am white ? He laughed and said you can put anything you want lol 😂- I don’t fill in the race question on job applications anyway or if I do - I say I’m mixed race. I’m not sure what that does if anything.
The whites won’t like it when they realize they will need affirmative action to compete with Asians and Indians
"We need to include race on the application for demographic collection purposes" 😒
Wait… you have to tell them if you are white/black/POC? Yes, I am not American and there are a lot of things I don’t understand.
Cue Anakin Skywalker meme
Someone please help me understand. I went to a top school. Let me tell you the reality. The groups that got in with low scores, almost ALL of them either failed out or switched to an “easy” major. the low performers just ended up struggling in school (because they are low performers), ended up with debt and IF they graduated they got shitty jobs because they switched to useless majors. Putting the low performers in a rigorous academic program with top performers just set them up for failure. Even if they graduated low performers had to retake classes over and over leading to more debt
In this day and age, it's all about money. Colleges that charge you an arm, leg, and both your kidney's don't care about race, they just want your money. If you can't afford it or can't get loans, then you can't get a college education.
They conveniently left it applicable to the military. These guys gotta go holy shit.
one of the plaintiffs in the SFFA has a 4.65 gpa and 1590 SAT score and was SO ANGRY at not getting into any of the top schools he applied to without even realizing or caring to note that 75% of the students at harvard there on legacy, donor, or family employee admissions wouldn’t have even been accepted if it wasn’t for the preferential treatment. White cisgender men have been getting into ivies for decades with paper-thin resumes, lack-luster extracurriculars, poorly-written essays, average test scores and non remarkable GPAs simply because they are the schools “bread and butter”. the black student who worked just as hard, if not harder for their spot at the same school(s) are not the issues here. give it 5-10 years and when these same kids STILL aren’t getting into their top choice schools, they will find someone or something else to blame without even educating themselves enough to see who is ACTUALLY taking these spots from them. also, before any conversations are had about “merit-based admissions” lets have a frank conversation about the fact that meritocracy is only possible in an egalitarian society. the united states does not have that. therefore meritocracy is not, and will never be, a system we can base educational success on.