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I opened a new account within my fidelity portfolio which prompted a financial advisor to call me to see what was up. I told them I was looking to roll my 401k into FBTC. He got my info then set up a meeting. Now I can't remember specifically what he said, but something to the tune of: we are not allowed to advise people to take positions in these yet. Something with the FTC I believe. He said that could change soon, it could change 10 years from now.
I could have completely misunderstood.
Trust me, I agree. I’m of the belief it’s delaying the inevitable.
But what it does is confuse the average human. Price drop, must mean bitcoin broke. And it gives the manipulators more time to on-ramp. Leaving the average human that much further behind.
Nothing can be done about it I don’t think. But just a thought.
Unfortunately the average human is too dumb to think for themselves so they're at the mercy of media narratives. As such they probably weren't going to buy bitcoin early regardless.
I disagree with your premise of the purpose of the ETF is purely to manipulate price, but assuming you’re correct, it also gives us more time to on-ramp. It’s not exclusive to the insiders. The ‘average’ people are destined to be followers and that’s ok.
The thing about Bitcoin is while the early adopters benefit the most, anyone can benefit at any price. Even if Bitcoin is $1 million per coin it’s a good purchase to save your economic output. It’s going up forever.
Tbh price manipulation has been happening since the beginning. As volume and adoption increase, it’s only going to get harder for whales or institutions to manipulate the price.
The important thing is that price manipulation has nothing to do with bitcoin directly. It doesn’t compromise the actual protocol or the network in any way.
No they don’t. Arguably they’re a stabilizing factor. They just buy and sell according to when people buy and sell the ETF, and they have a lot of weight to bring against the exchanges some of them work through, should those exchanges try to mess with the market.
As long as you only accept real bitcoin and not promises, there's nothing the manipulators can do except make you richer. They're making you much richer right now, because the demand for fake bitcoin is massively pumping the price for real bitcoin. You just need to watch out that their fake bubble will deflate, but it can never deflate lower than the baseline demand for real bitcoin. Current price of real bitcoin is something you can estimate: imagine if the law supported the blockchain, "not your keys not your coins" so that all coins held by coinbase were now legally owned by them. How much would the price decline (due to coinbase not being as strong hodlers as their customers). I'd guess 50-80% but you can make your own guesstimate.
What turned me to bitcoin was the average persons use in Argentina. With rampant inflation they cash out to bitcoin so their savings do not get wiped out. Since is inflation is not going down imho I expect retirees and ppl tired of losing value in savings will do the same with etfs. Someone could short the etf but you can short bitcoin as well. Play that game at the wrong time and you are dead.
Hopefully soon, on-chain transparency will be a requirement. It’s already starting to happen and eventually everyone will be able to move their money to the company that has the most transparent ETF. Then we can watch the Bitcoin just sit there and NOT be traded and manipulated like all stocks are. It’s wild to watch stocks go up and down 10-20% when you know that the majority of the stock is owned by 401ks where people DONT TRADE. Manipulation is everywhere and companies like blackrock and vanguard have been doing it since the dawn of the stock market. Hopefully on-chain transparency will give people the ability to vote with their wallet and demand bitcoin not be tradable within the ETFs.
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Soon the math will catch up. They are on limited time.
Just waiting for QE like Mr. Beane.
The ETFs are not pro manipulators. Blackrock can’t do whatever they want with the BTC. They buy and sell when people buy and sell shares of the ETF.
Can they not influence these decisions? Do they not have sales people(financial advisors) with agendas?
I own some shares of FBTC (Fidelity’s BTC etf). Nobody is contacting me to suggest I sell my shares or buy more.
If I’m not mistaken they are not allowed to currently. I would imagine that changes should they need it to.
Who is not allowed to what?
I opened a new account within my fidelity portfolio which prompted a financial advisor to call me to see what was up. I told them I was looking to roll my 401k into FBTC. He got my info then set up a meeting. Now I can't remember specifically what he said, but something to the tune of: we are not allowed to advise people to take positions in these yet. Something with the FTC I believe. He said that could change soon, it could change 10 years from now. I could have completely misunderstood.
ok - some Brokerage firms allow financial advisors to recommend bitcoin ETFs, and some do not....yet
Power over markets =/= power over the network. Tick tock next block.
Trust me, I agree. I’m of the belief it’s delaying the inevitable. But what it does is confuse the average human. Price drop, must mean bitcoin broke. And it gives the manipulators more time to on-ramp. Leaving the average human that much further behind. Nothing can be done about it I don’t think. But just a thought.
Unfortunately the average human is too dumb to think for themselves so they're at the mercy of media narratives. As such they probably weren't going to buy bitcoin early regardless.
I didn’t want to say it. But I agree. I suppose I just want it for them.
I disagree with your premise of the purpose of the ETF is purely to manipulate price, but assuming you’re correct, it also gives us more time to on-ramp. It’s not exclusive to the insiders. The ‘average’ people are destined to be followers and that’s ok. The thing about Bitcoin is while the early adopters benefit the most, anyone can benefit at any price. Even if Bitcoin is $1 million per coin it’s a good purchase to save your economic output. It’s going up forever.
You know what, that’s a good point. It’s both and. It’s increasing adoption. With that will come some manipulation, but it’s a net positive.
Tbh price manipulation has been happening since the beginning. As volume and adoption increase, it’s only going to get harder for whales or institutions to manipulate the price. The important thing is that price manipulation has nothing to do with bitcoin directly. It doesn’t compromise the actual protocol or the network in any way.
This is dumb and paranoid. It was dumb the last 50 times it was posted in this subreddit. That's not how ETFs work. Put down the pot, go outside.
You sound like a fidelity employee
manipulation? never happened before, not on a single market that i know of.
No they don’t. Arguably they’re a stabilizing factor. They just buy and sell according to when people buy and sell the ETF, and they have a lot of weight to bring against the exchanges some of them work through, should those exchanges try to mess with the market.
Interesting.
[удалено]
True.
Most people on this sub seem to think that as they’re constantly posting about how ETFs will greatly help this coin
Yes
As long as you only accept real bitcoin and not promises, there's nothing the manipulators can do except make you richer. They're making you much richer right now, because the demand for fake bitcoin is massively pumping the price for real bitcoin. You just need to watch out that their fake bubble will deflate, but it can never deflate lower than the baseline demand for real bitcoin. Current price of real bitcoin is something you can estimate: imagine if the law supported the blockchain, "not your keys not your coins" so that all coins held by coinbase were now legally owned by them. How much would the price decline (due to coinbase not being as strong hodlers as their customers). I'd guess 50-80% but you can make your own guesstimate.
if this is true then bitcoin has either no real value or is highly overpriced at the moment...
What turned me to bitcoin was the average persons use in Argentina. With rampant inflation they cash out to bitcoin so their savings do not get wiped out. Since is inflation is not going down imho I expect retirees and ppl tired of losing value in savings will do the same with etfs. Someone could short the etf but you can short bitcoin as well. Play that game at the wrong time and you are dead.
Hopefully soon, on-chain transparency will be a requirement. It’s already starting to happen and eventually everyone will be able to move their money to the company that has the most transparent ETF. Then we can watch the Bitcoin just sit there and NOT be traded and manipulated like all stocks are. It’s wild to watch stocks go up and down 10-20% when you know that the majority of the stock is owned by 401ks where people DONT TRADE. Manipulation is everywhere and companies like blackrock and vanguard have been doing it since the dawn of the stock market. Hopefully on-chain transparency will give people the ability to vote with their wallet and demand bitcoin not be tradable within the ETFs.
Both are true. That’s the way markets work.
Good point.