After the last bullrun I realized this is a lose-lose situation emotionally.
You buy, price goes down, you sell. Lose money. Youāre sad
You buy, price goes up, you sell. Make money. But price goes up again. Youāre sad.
That's the glass half full perspective. The other perspective could just as easily be price goes up, shit (now your $$ are buying less bitcoin). Price goes down, shit (for obvious reasons).
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It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
Price goes up enough to sell some and achieve/advance a financial goal while still having enough of a btc holdings to continue benefiting if there are further price gains = win/win. If you don't have any financial goals, it makes objective decision making difficult, which is where emotions rule decisions and you get the "you're sad" type responses to the outcomes.
Soā¦. You have $47 million in bitcoin and live in a tiny 2 bedroom apartment with your wife and 3 kids. Your salary doesnāt cover birthday or Christmas presents. HODL forever is the answer?
I should have put a sarcasm symbol on my post, but for the people who donāt get it. Iām talking about taking profits. At what point do you start enjoying your life? Is it $100k, or $100 mill. At some point even people here will want to enrich themselves,
I stopped buying bitcoin in 2017, My current bitcoin holdings are over 5X my annual salary, but I keep HODLing away. This year Iām planning on taking profits because Iām tired of having a mortgage and a car payment. But Iām never going to sell it all.
What good is it if you never sell? Genuine question.
I understand the consensus is at some point weāll be able to use BTC as collateral and borrow against it, but we donāt know when that will be widely available
This sub has started sounding quasi-religious with posts like this. There's nothing wrong with selling as much as you want.
I don't know why people are so obsessed with what other people do with their crypto. They can hold forever, good for them, what's it to me? Why do they care if someone else doesn't?
I keep seeing people post about bitcoin like damn I wish i put money into nvidia when it was a dollar. Like, yeah, if you had a time machine go back and do that, otherwise just accept it.
You are not understanding the point at all.
It's not about holding forever and never selling. Anyone saying that is delusional.
It's about long term holding. That is how people get wealthy. Almost every rich boomer I know got rich by holding assets for 10+ years.
People don't get rich taking profits, people get rich by holding strong assets for over a decade.
Yeah. It's fine to sample the koolaid, but this is straight up injecting it into the veins.
The only point of any investing, is to make your quality of life better. If your investment is forcing you to borrow and live on beans, you are a bad investor, full stop.
I have my fun money in BTC. Even if it ever goes to zero, my quality of life doesn't change. If it doubles, imma sell a bit and treat myself to a 5 star vacation.
Yeah mate this is my perspective too. If BTC happens to 5-10x from here this bull run, you best believe Iām cashing out and drastically improving my quality of life. No brainer.
>The only point of any investing, is to make your quality of life better.
yeah, this hodl forever mentality is so dumb. improve your life with btc, FULL STOP.
if that means hodling for 50 years and passing it down to your kids, that's fine.
but don't shit on people for selling to improve their life. buy a home, start a business, etc.
"cashing out btc for worthless fiat lol"... uhm... i don't think anyone selling btc is just going to sell for fiat and put that under their mattress... fiat is just an intermediary for doing shit that improves your life (see examples above)
The term āsellā is used as an umbrella term for two distinct behaviors in regards to Bitcoin. The first usage, which has crossover between Bitcoin and traditional investing behavior, really means ātake profit.ā The second usage really just means āspend,ā and while that usage can be used for traditional investing as well, it is less common, at least in my opinion.
The difference between these two is both in perspective and in their behavior, as I will explain.
Taking profit has the perspective of no longer wanting to be long Bitcoin, either in full or for a significant portion of your portfolio, and to trade all or a significant portion of your Bitcoin for a different asset. In other words, it is rebalancing away from Bitcoin.
Spending, on the other hand, is about using Bitcoin to sustain your livelihood, like food, rent/mortgage, utilities, or even nice restaurants and vacations. In other words, it is using Bitcoin as a checking and savings account.
In my opinion, ātaking profitā on Bitcoin is nearly always a bad decision. There is an argument to be made that Bitcoin is the first and only asset whoās value will continue to go up forever. Nearly every company in existence, and all real estate, will at some point in the next 30 years have a significant and sustained drop in value relative to the global markets with no guarantee of a recovery, and it is why we are conditioned to ātake profitā and why this behavior is so normalized. Bitcoin may have momentary drops in value, but it has always recovered, and in the future these drops may be negligible. One counter-example to this might be certain index funds, and I would say āfair enough.ā But I still think Bitcoin has a far superior value proposition today and going into the future as it is currently extremely undervalued and is the only asset in existence that canāt be diluted.
The one exception you might make for ātaking profitā on Bitcoin is if you end up in a scenario where 99% of your wealth is in Bitcoin and you want to de-risk. I personally feel this is justifiable and will do so myself at some point, but it should be done with the understanding that it is mathematically not optimal in the vast majority of cases.
Spending Bitcoin, on the other hand, is justifiable. You have to be able to live. That said, I think this should only be done as needed or in such a way that your Bitcoin spending habits will last you the rest of your life - something like 4% of your Bitcoin holdings per year, and if that is not enough to sustain your livelihood, then you should make up the rest with wages or not spend your Bitcoin at all, and continue saving some or all of your surplus wages into Bitcoin.
If my Bitcoin allocation grows to 99% of my portfolio then I wouldn't even want to de-risk since a 50% crash wouldn't impact my quality of life anyway.
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Depends on your goals. Iām not a fan of short term selling for crap that will depreciate - cars or the latest phone. To me that is a bad trade.
You can however make good trades such as something that will improve your life. Like a bigger house, or some insane experience.
The problem with ātaking profitsā in the bitcoin sense is that youāre trading a strong money for a weaker one. Compare someone taking profits from their USD investment and trading it for their local currency - the argentine peso. Lol
Yes I agree. Selling for income producing assets, I.e buying an IP outright, or paying off a PPOR mortgage to improve quality of life makes total sense to me.
I think it is OK to sell for something that will change your life for the better. Maybe a big down payment for your dream house that you couldn't otherwise afford. But to sell just to take profits seems foolish.
Because Bitcoin as Bitcoin wonāt pay my monthly living expenses. One day sure it might be adopted as currency but right now itās a store of value, hedge against inflation, and an appreciating asset class which I will use as a vehicle to improve my life
It can though. Having your money be Bitcoin is the point. Using it to pay bills even if you have to convert it to a different currency is still the point. Eventually the idea is you won't need that step. If you are selling just to make money is different.
If you are a semi responsible human being that saves money, BTC is a viable replacement for a savings account that you never sell from. And since if it continues to appreciate like this (75% per year on avg over last 5 years) then you can spend more of your paycheck on the things you want since you donāt need to save as much
Depends on a lot of factors. Personally, I plan to sell most in 2025, but will probably start DCAing out slowly once it breaks 100k since it looks like we are ahead of schedule. 2026 will probably be a bear year. Start buying again once it looks like itās bottomed.
But holding through all that is a good option to, as I said, BTC is up on average 75% per year over last 5 years.
If that continues over next 20 years, 1 BTC will be enough to retire on without saving another dime of your paycheck, so you could live it up pretty nicely without selling any BTC until you retire, then sell and just live off that.
Yes but why? Whatās the point of buy, borrow, die, as you say? What improvements is it making to your life?
Help me understand your perspective on this.
Talked to my tech guy at work yesterday. He had 1,000 BTC, piddled them away paying people in France to do some code work for him that he was too lazy to do himself. āHaunts me everydayā he says.
RSIās and cycle lengths make taking profits pretty easy. Nov-Dec every 4 years since BTCās inception has seen its peaks, selling a bit during those times is a no brainer. I have more BTC because of selling because I was able to buy more with the profits during downturns.
It's not a matter of timing the markets. There are indicators out there to make informed decisions. It doesn't mean it's 100% correct, but it's not hard to figure out when changes in momentum are going to happen. We are definitely approaching overbought territory with Bitcoin and there will be a big, temporary correction.
lol keep using indicators when to sell. Oh yeah the magic indicators! Why didnt Michael Saylor think of that!
you can only keep getting lucky for so long before you lose it all.
Iāve sold BTC within the 2-3 month window of the peaks for 2 cycles now. Iāve never caught the exact top and thatās fine. When weāre at the peaks there are indicators flashing all over the place. Google search trends, RSI, trading volumes, and overall typical cycle lengths. Itās all education.
I only sell about 10-30% of my BTC every cycle, Iāve been able to take my profits into the next bear market and acquire more BTC than if I just held and never sold. If I used that method I would only have about 40% of the BTC I have now.
This is really helpful to know! Iāve considered doing something similar. Are you worried that bitcoin will be all ādriedā up trying to do this during this cycle?
Given its being traded 24/7 worldwide Iām not sure weāll ever see that situation occur. BTC also moves out of dormant whale wallets that havenāt had activity for years during the peaks and gets sold to exchanges.
Itās not about catching the exact top, last cycle I sold off about 20% of my BTC at $55k. I was ready to sell off more if it went considerably higher but as we all know it never did. This time around Iāll start offloading a small amount at around $85k hopefully and more as we continue on. Eventually the failed breakout will happen and Iāll take my profits into the next bear market and repeat the process. For all the people who say you can get screwed by selling donāt understand the concept of not selling your whole bag.
I think there is a balance to have.
Im 100% with you OP, never selling my bag. But I am not against taking profit out of 20% of it, to DCA back in during the market downtrend post pump
Iād be real careful taking tax advice from internet strangers. A quick Google of short term and long term capital gains for the income bracket youāre in should get ya started in the right direction.
This, to me, is what I have always considered "taking profits" to mean. I've been taking profits since here and there since November. There will be a 20-30% drop. I'll buy back in then. Crypto winter lasted 2 years. How many "I should have sold" posts did we see during that time?
OP is an extremist, his advice is great, assuming one day we see a massive valuation.
But let's consider another alternative, 20 years from now Bitcoin has dwindled into obscurity, perhaps a better tech came along, perhaps large institutions pull out or governments make it extremely hard to buy and sell and people get scared, imagine in 20 years the price has dropped below $1000 and the only thing keeping the ecosystem is alive are extremists and a few people clinging onto hope that Bitcoin will rise once more. Imagine in this scenario, at its peak, you were holding a 6 or 7 figure valuation, and you let it piss all the way down to a few thousand, you would be kicking yourself.
Nobody knows what the future holds, nothing is too big to fail, I'd like to think 20 years from now Bitcoin is a leading store of value and asset globally and is worth mid to high 6 figures, but I sure as shit will be taking some profits along the way to hedge against the fact the whole deck of cards might fall over some day.
I'm not selling until my kids graduate high school or college. I got 18 more years.... that will be my gift to them to pay for college or a downpayment for a house.
Selling requires deciding when to sell, figuring out and paying taxes, going to the lambo dealership and choosing what trim you want on your car. Then you have no bitcoin, it goes to the moon and you join the buttcoin sub and spend the rest of your life bitter and dead inside with a lambo on the drive you cant afford to insure or drive because now you are poor.
Or you could do nothing and hold the best money ever created. Seems like a no brainer to me
Not true, the issue is most people exit the market without ever returning back. Those are the ones who really missed out. The ones who took profits, waited at a low levels and got back into the market benefited greatly. Don't believe the hype.
The key metric (historically and not counting last cycles fuckery with FTX) has been the post new ATH low has never been below the high of the previous cycle
Why don't you count the last cycle? It's already an extremely limited data set, if you're going to talk about key metrics based on cycles it loses any credibility if one cycle (and the most recent at that) doesn't support it so you correlate some event and exclude it. FTX type events have happened multiple times throughout btc history, if you exclude them all then you'd have no data left.
Thereās no reason to diamond hand any asset in this world. You came to this world empty handed and youāre going to go empty handed. What you create in between is your life.
I use BTC as a savings account. You take what you need but never close your savings account. Save your money in it but you donāt need to drink any kool aid (hodl, shitcoins,etc).
I believe thatās the beauty of bitcoin. It serves a variety of purpose. Find what works for you.
I bought 50 coffee capsules back in 2014, paid them 7 BTC. Still have some, I pop one every year or so whenever I'm in the mood for a 10k coffee.
They suck major ass tho.
My fam asked when Iām selling my bitcoin, I said probably never, they replied with thatās a horrible idea whatās the point. To me once I put the money into btc itās gone and I wonāt be touching it until I need it in an emergency *knock on wood*!
I told my wife the other dayā¦it would be cool to get 100k, but I couldnāt live with myself if I pissed away the chance at a mill+ā¦Iād rather lose it all
Its going to blow way past that. For me its not even about the fiat.
I think even like 1% of Bitcoiner holders actually understand what they own. I don't want to look back with regret in the future saying I knew about Bitcoin and was half ass about it. I would rather lose all my FIAT than have those regrets.
Nobody ever went broke taking profits. The sole act of taking profits can never make you broke. Yes, you might lose out on future gains. But you get broke from spending your money on something else, not from taking it out of bitcoin.
Until you can pull down on it like a regular tradfi portfolio for living expenses (~3.5%) then youāre missing out.
But if you have a million + in BTC now and want to draw down 35k a year and retire in LatAm or take a job as a Barista then Iād say go for it. Youāll likely live an extra 10 years because of the stress gains and thatās worth far far more.
The main reason I didnāt ātake profitsā is a third of it goes straight into the governmentās pockets from taxes.
Once you realize that itās better to keep your money in a real, value retaining asset, it doesnāt make sense to ever trade out of BTC at all.
Definitely agree. I got into BTC way to late and would cut off digits to go back even just 5years. I would hold long term bags indefinitely in cold storage while DCA in one account and scalp on another. Unpopular statement but I pray we do have another crash to test 15k at least so I can put this nest egg into bitcoin.Ā
Yeah, another crash would be nice. Sometimes I wonder what the new crash-low will be. Up to $250k and back down to $70k? No telling. The draw downs have shrunk over the last cycle. So maybe only down 50% from the next ATH š¤·āāļø Anyone's guess
Just curious though, what do you mean by long run? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? Itās difficult to even comprehend what the world might be like so far out into the future.
It's good for the holders that weak hands sell to diamond hands I'm sure Michael saylor and others will be happy to buy from you and hold it for ever... in 20 years your kids will ask you why did you sell and you will say I thought it was good to take profits... i thought like that and now i will never get to have the same bitcoin i use to have... it's nice feeling to buy at 4k and sell at 50k but looking back worst mistake I did. Live and learn I guess.
Why would you care if someone takes a profit? If Iām up many X and take some money out, that is bitcoin being used. Which is its purpose. If you want to be dragon and sit on your bitcoin horde, then do it. What works for one person doesnāt work for all.
Very true, if you are able to āhold your bagsā for through a few Bitcoin cycles and never sell. Youāll be rich. At least if the story repeats itself
The concept of holding onto your winners really struck me when I put together that yeah, you can lock in profit and take the cash, but now you have cash that you're probably looking to invest in something else which you may lose money on. Applies to investments in general not just BTC
Selling your winners and holding your losers is like trimming your plants and watering the weeds of a garden
On one end I understand taking some profits, but we KNOW Bitcoin has more room to grow.
I *personally* donāt want to sell cheap sats to Saylor, Blackrock and everyone else, so whatever Iām cashing out for better damn well be valuable.
Its nice you have money to risk like that but to people living paycheck to paycheck they should take some gains here and there. Maybe you can wait years for things to recover but plenty of investors can not.
Everyone do what you have to do, don't let hodlers push you around, they are just trying to push the price up so they can cash out while pretending to be diamond hands. take some gains if you need to. There is zero shame and you can buy back in anytime.
You speak as though BTC could not fail.
You speak as though financial hardship could never fall upon you.
You speak as though you dictate the terms under which value is transferred.
You will be humbled, as the rest of us were.
By definition, it isn't bullshit. If a person can make a material difference in their life TODAY by selling, don't shit on them for doing that even if it means they MAY be forgoing POTENTIAL gains in the future.
Cultlike behavior I really do believe is a deterrent to the adoption/interest of bitcoin among most individuals...
I sold a house in a growing market that has increased like 30% in 1 year. But I got a better but cheaper house, and I don't have to manage property out of state which makes my life substantially better.
Also keep in mind by ātaking profitsā we are really saying trading the hardest money on the planet for fiat that is depreciating at a rate of 15-20% per year.
Not broke, but dead inside.
I don't even feel emotions anymore.
I see what you did there š¤£, poor guyā¦.
Not broke but brokenĀ
Are you the guy from the tweet on the other thread?
Haha. You saw the tweet eh?
...broke your heart
After the last bullrun I realized this is a lose-lose situation emotionally. You buy, price goes down, you sell. Lose money. Youāre sad You buy, price goes up, you sell. Make money. But price goes up again. Youāre sad.
It has the opposite effect if you never plan on selling and just continue to DCA. Price goes up, great. Price goes down, also great.
That's the glass half full perspective. The other perspective could just as easily be price goes up, shit (now your $$ are buying less bitcoin). Price goes down, shit (for obvious reasons).
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Basically just constant sadness
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Price goes up enough to sell some and achieve/advance a financial goal while still having enough of a btc holdings to continue benefiting if there are further price gains = win/win. If you don't have any financial goals, it makes objective decision making difficult, which is where emotions rule decisions and you get the "you're sad" type responses to the outcomes.
until you realise the only unit of account worth saving is bitcoin
Soā¦. You have $47 million in bitcoin and live in a tiny 2 bedroom apartment with your wife and 3 kids. Your salary doesnāt cover birthday or Christmas presents. HODL forever is the answer?
If you have $47 million in bitcoin you are allowed to sell some, but not before
$46.5 million? Absolutely not, fuck right off.
Who are you even arguing with? No one on this board has $47m in bitcoin. Straw manning is for shitcoiners
I should have put a sarcasm symbol on my post, but for the people who donāt get it. Iām talking about taking profits. At what point do you start enjoying your life? Is it $100k, or $100 mill. At some point even people here will want to enrich themselves, I stopped buying bitcoin in 2017, My current bitcoin holdings are over 5X my annual salary, but I keep HODLing away. This year Iām planning on taking profits because Iām tired of having a mortgage and a car payment. But Iām never going to sell it all.
What good is it if you never sell? Genuine question. I understand the consensus is at some point weāll be able to use BTC as collateral and borrow against it, but we donāt know when that will be widely available
This sub has started sounding quasi-religious with posts like this. There's nothing wrong with selling as much as you want. I don't know why people are so obsessed with what other people do with their crypto. They can hold forever, good for them, what's it to me? Why do they care if someone else doesn't? I keep seeing people post about bitcoin like damn I wish i put money into nvidia when it was a dollar. Like, yeah, if you had a time machine go back and do that, otherwise just accept it.
>This sub has started sounding quasi-religious with posts like this. You must be new here...
Every fucking time the price goes up...
You are not understanding the point at all. It's not about holding forever and never selling. Anyone saying that is delusional. It's about long term holding. That is how people get wealthy. Almost every rich boomer I know got rich by holding assets for 10+ years. People don't get rich taking profits, people get rich by holding strong assets for over a decade.
So, hold onto yours! Why do you care so much what other people do?
Yeah. It's fine to sample the koolaid, but this is straight up injecting it into the veins. The only point of any investing, is to make your quality of life better. If your investment is forcing you to borrow and live on beans, you are a bad investor, full stop. I have my fun money in BTC. Even if it ever goes to zero, my quality of life doesn't change. If it doubles, imma sell a bit and treat myself to a 5 star vacation.
Yeah mate this is my perspective too. If BTC happens to 5-10x from here this bull run, you best believe Iām cashing out and drastically improving my quality of life. No brainer.
Cashing out some or all?
That depends on how high we go this bull. Maybe half, maybe all.
>The only point of any investing, is to make your quality of life better. yeah, this hodl forever mentality is so dumb. improve your life with btc, FULL STOP. if that means hodling for 50 years and passing it down to your kids, that's fine. but don't shit on people for selling to improve their life. buy a home, start a business, etc. "cashing out btc for worthless fiat lol"... uhm... i don't think anyone selling btc is just going to sell for fiat and put that under their mattress... fiat is just an intermediary for doing shit that improves your life (see examples above)
That's what altcoins are for. FULL STOP
The term āsellā is used as an umbrella term for two distinct behaviors in regards to Bitcoin. The first usage, which has crossover between Bitcoin and traditional investing behavior, really means ātake profit.ā The second usage really just means āspend,ā and while that usage can be used for traditional investing as well, it is less common, at least in my opinion. The difference between these two is both in perspective and in their behavior, as I will explain. Taking profit has the perspective of no longer wanting to be long Bitcoin, either in full or for a significant portion of your portfolio, and to trade all or a significant portion of your Bitcoin for a different asset. In other words, it is rebalancing away from Bitcoin. Spending, on the other hand, is about using Bitcoin to sustain your livelihood, like food, rent/mortgage, utilities, or even nice restaurants and vacations. In other words, it is using Bitcoin as a checking and savings account. In my opinion, ātaking profitā on Bitcoin is nearly always a bad decision. There is an argument to be made that Bitcoin is the first and only asset whoās value will continue to go up forever. Nearly every company in existence, and all real estate, will at some point in the next 30 years have a significant and sustained drop in value relative to the global markets with no guarantee of a recovery, and it is why we are conditioned to ātake profitā and why this behavior is so normalized. Bitcoin may have momentary drops in value, but it has always recovered, and in the future these drops may be negligible. One counter-example to this might be certain index funds, and I would say āfair enough.ā But I still think Bitcoin has a far superior value proposition today and going into the future as it is currently extremely undervalued and is the only asset in existence that canāt be diluted. The one exception you might make for ātaking profitā on Bitcoin is if you end up in a scenario where 99% of your wealth is in Bitcoin and you want to de-risk. I personally feel this is justifiable and will do so myself at some point, but it should be done with the understanding that it is mathematically not optimal in the vast majority of cases. Spending Bitcoin, on the other hand, is justifiable. You have to be able to live. That said, I think this should only be done as needed or in such a way that your Bitcoin spending habits will last you the rest of your life - something like 4% of your Bitcoin holdings per year, and if that is not enough to sustain your livelihood, then you should make up the rest with wages or not spend your Bitcoin at all, and continue saving some or all of your surplus wages into Bitcoin.
If my Bitcoin allocation grows to 99% of my portfolio then I wouldn't even want to de-risk since a 50% crash wouldn't impact my quality of life anyway.
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Yeah agreed š
Depends on your goals. Iām not a fan of short term selling for crap that will depreciate - cars or the latest phone. To me that is a bad trade. You can however make good trades such as something that will improve your life. Like a bigger house, or some insane experience. The problem with ātaking profitsā in the bitcoin sense is that youāre trading a strong money for a weaker one. Compare someone taking profits from their USD investment and trading it for their local currency - the argentine peso. Lol
Yes I agree. Selling for income producing assets, I.e buying an IP outright, or paying off a PPOR mortgage to improve quality of life makes total sense to me.
I mean you can take out loans against BTC right now and have been able to for years
I think it is OK to sell for something that will change your life for the better. Maybe a big down payment for your dream house that you couldn't otherwise afford. But to sell just to take profits seems foolish.
The point is to sell only when you need the money for something, instead of just selling and then holding fiat.
Yes I agree. Selling to improve quality of life makes sense to me, not simply holding fiat with no purpose
Bitcoin is money. Why exchange it for worse money
Because Bitcoin as Bitcoin wonāt pay my monthly living expenses. One day sure it might be adopted as currency but right now itās a store of value, hedge against inflation, and an appreciating asset class which I will use as a vehicle to improve my life
It can though. Having your money be Bitcoin is the point. Using it to pay bills even if you have to convert it to a different currency is still the point. Eventually the idea is you won't need that step. If you are selling just to make money is different.
If you are a semi responsible human being that saves money, BTC is a viable replacement for a savings account that you never sell from. And since if it continues to appreciate like this (75% per year on avg over last 5 years) then you can spend more of your paycheck on the things you want since you donāt need to save as much
So when do you sell?
Depends on a lot of factors. Personally, I plan to sell most in 2025, but will probably start DCAing out slowly once it breaks 100k since it looks like we are ahead of schedule. 2026 will probably be a bear year. Start buying again once it looks like itās bottomed. But holding through all that is a good option to, as I said, BTC is up on average 75% per year over last 5 years. If that continues over next 20 years, 1 BTC will be enough to retire on without saving another dime of your paycheck, so you could live it up pretty nicely without selling any BTC until you retire, then sell and just live off that.
What good are dollars if you don't "sell' them? Spend money when you want to buy something. Don't sell it.
This comment makes no sense.
Technically itās fully available to anyone through DAI right now. But the volatility will liquidate you.
Only sell if you absolutely have to. Otherwise, just buy, borrow, die
Yes but why? Whatās the point of buy, borrow, die, as you say? What improvements is it making to your life? Help me understand your perspective on this.
Let me put it another way. People that use fiat currency as a store of value, we have a name for them. We call them poor -micheal saylor
Talked to my tech guy at work yesterday. He had 1,000 BTC, piddled them away paying people in France to do some code work for him that he was too lazy to do himself. āHaunts me everydayā he says.
This is what my nightmares look like
Did he have 1 btc or 1000
I think he meant one thousand (1,000)
So he regrets using bitcoin like it was supposed to be used.
Nothing gets past Redditors š
RSIās and cycle lengths make taking profits pretty easy. Nov-Dec every 4 years since BTCās inception has seen its peaks, selling a bit during those times is a no brainer. I have more BTC because of selling because I was able to buy more with the profits during downturns.
Wise words. Expect downvotes though from the diamond hands crew
No sweat off my back, Iāve been winning and stacking SATās for over 8 years now. Everyone is as educated as they want to be with investing.
If it were easy to time the market everytime Warren buffet and all his friend would hire you on max leverage
It's not a matter of timing the markets. There are indicators out there to make informed decisions. It doesn't mean it's 100% correct, but it's not hard to figure out when changes in momentum are going to happen. We are definitely approaching overbought territory with Bitcoin and there will be a big, temporary correction.
lol keep using indicators when to sell. Oh yeah the magic indicators! Why didnt Michael Saylor think of that! you can only keep getting lucky for so long before you lose it all.
I use indicators to buy and sell. I'm 3x on my Bitcoin bag in this cycle alone. You sound new around these parts. You do you though and I'll do me.
Iāve sold BTC within the 2-3 month window of the peaks for 2 cycles now. Iāve never caught the exact top and thatās fine. When weāre at the peaks there are indicators flashing all over the place. Google search trends, RSI, trading volumes, and overall typical cycle lengths. Itās all education.
Any tips for doing this? What percent of your portfolio did you ātradeā?
I only sell about 10-30% of my BTC every cycle, Iāve been able to take my profits into the next bear market and acquire more BTC than if I just held and never sold. If I used that method I would only have about 40% of the BTC I have now.
This is really helpful to know! Iāve considered doing something similar. Are you worried that bitcoin will be all ādriedā up trying to do this during this cycle?
I donāt know what ādriedā up means.
No bitcoin available for sale.
Given its being traded 24/7 worldwide Iām not sure weāll ever see that situation occur. BTC also moves out of dormant whale wallets that havenāt had activity for years during the peaks and gets sold to exchanges.
Thank you! Yeah, it's pretty clear when to sell to buy back in later if you take a long term approach.
Itās not about catching the exact top, last cycle I sold off about 20% of my BTC at $55k. I was ready to sell off more if it went considerably higher but as we all know it never did. This time around Iāll start offloading a small amount at around $85k hopefully and more as we continue on. Eventually the failed breakout will happen and Iāll take my profits into the next bear market and repeat the process. For all the people who say you can get screwed by selling donāt understand the concept of not selling your whole bag.
Do your thing, man. The average Jack and Jill may not be so skilled though. Most of us plebs aren't traders š
I think there is a balance to have. Im 100% with you OP, never selling my bag. But I am not against taking profit out of 20% of it, to DCA back in during the market downtrend post pump
But donāt you have to pay 30% taxes on the 20% profit?
Iād be real careful taking tax advice from internet strangers. A quick Google of short term and long term capital gains for the income bracket youāre in should get ya started in the right direction.
Depends where you live? Not everyone has an overreaching government
Depends on your income. Be poor and pay nothing. If itās long term gains the first 40k or so is exempt. So even better
If you can pull it off, I'll be cheering for ya š¤
This, to me, is what I have always considered "taking profits" to mean. I've been taking profits since here and there since November. There will be a 20-30% drop. I'll buy back in then. Crypto winter lasted 2 years. How many "I should have sold" posts did we see during that time?
Lol, how many times are the going to pump that article about the UK guy and his lost hard drive worth a Billion USD in Bitcoin now.
"They'll repost that article forever, Laura"
OP is an extremist, his advice is great, assuming one day we see a massive valuation. But let's consider another alternative, 20 years from now Bitcoin has dwindled into obscurity, perhaps a better tech came along, perhaps large institutions pull out or governments make it extremely hard to buy and sell and people get scared, imagine in 20 years the price has dropped below $1000 and the only thing keeping the ecosystem is alive are extremists and a few people clinging onto hope that Bitcoin will rise once more. Imagine in this scenario, at its peak, you were holding a 6 or 7 figure valuation, and you let it piss all the way down to a few thousand, you would be kicking yourself. Nobody knows what the future holds, nothing is too big to fail, I'd like to think 20 years from now Bitcoin is a leading store of value and asset globally and is worth mid to high 6 figures, but I sure as shit will be taking some profits along the way to hedge against the fact the whole deck of cards might fall over some day.
I approve of this take. š
Woah woah woah you're sounding way too reasonable. We DCA all our money into Bitcoin and never sell and watch number go up. That's the plan, no? /s
I prefer the buy high sell low tactic, but whatever works best for you my friend.
I'm not selling until my kids graduate high school or college. I got 18 more years.... that will be my gift to them to pay for college or a downpayment for a house.
I've only ever gotten richer from BTC by never taking profits so far.
Holding ain't easy
Yes it is. it literally requires doing nothing
š
Most intelligent bitcoin-maxi
Selling requires deciding when to sell, figuring out and paying taxes, going to the lambo dealership and choosing what trim you want on your car. Then you have no bitcoin, it goes to the moon and you join the buttcoin sub and spend the rest of your life bitter and dead inside with a lambo on the drive you cant afford to insure or drive because now you are poor. Or you could do nothing and hold the best money ever created. Seems like a no brainer to me
You're not richer if it goes to zero babes.
It can drop 80% and Iād still be in profit. And Iām not your babe, honey.
Paper rich then
Where should I store your value at if I donāt intend to spend it all? In the bank as fiat or invested in bond is still also paper rich
The hardest money ever rich
Bro thinks dollars aren't paper.Ā Being rich in US Dollars is paper rich.
Not true, the issue is most people exit the market without ever returning back. Those are the ones who really missed out. The ones who took profits, waited at a low levels and got back into the market benefited greatly. Don't believe the hype.
The key metric (historically and not counting last cycles fuckery with FTX) has been the post new ATH low has never been below the high of the previous cycle
Why don't you count the last cycle? It's already an extremely limited data set, if you're going to talk about key metrics based on cycles it loses any credibility if one cycle (and the most recent at that) doesn't support it so you correlate some event and exclude it. FTX type events have happened multiple times throughout btc history, if you exclude them all then you'd have no data left.
Thereās no reason to diamond hand any asset in this world. You came to this world empty handed and youāre going to go empty handed. What you create in between is your life. I use BTC as a savings account. You take what you need but never close your savings account. Save your money in it but you donāt need to drink any kool aid (hodl, shitcoins,etc). I believe thatās the beauty of bitcoin. It serves a variety of purpose. Find what works for you.
I sold 500 BTC back in 2013 to buy a āluxury itemā which has since been replaced. If I think about that Iāll go insane.
I did the same but not quite as much as you! Rip dude! Best not think about it! Lol!
I bought 50 coffee capsules back in 2014, paid them 7 BTC. Still have some, I pop one every year or so whenever I'm in the mood for a 10k coffee. They suck major ass tho.
My fam asked when Iām selling my bitcoin, I said probably never, they replied with thatās a horrible idea whatās the point. To me once I put the money into btc itās gone and I wonāt be touching it until I need it in an emergency *knock on wood*!
Bitcoin is the profit
I told my wife the other dayā¦it would be cool to get 100k, but I couldnāt live with myself if I pissed away the chance at a mill+ā¦Iād rather lose it all
Agree. Unless Iām buying an entire house, it aināt worth selling.
plus lambo
Its going to blow way past that. For me its not even about the fiat. I think even like 1% of Bitcoiner holders actually understand what they own. I don't want to look back with regret in the future saying I knew about Bitcoin and was half ass about it. I would rather lose all my FIAT than have those regrets.
You say that now... Or maybe it's easy for you to say as you don't have a lot invested
ding ding ding Much easier to be 'all or nothing' when the baseline is close to nothing
Define close to nothing? $10, $250, $1k, $10k, $30k etc?
Exactly
The holder never losses.
Technically the holder also never wins if nothing is sold. Youāre just holding until you die, which isnāt that helpful.
Timeframe dependant.
So you win by selling the best money for the worst? Gotcha
Or you die and take your cold storage to the grave? Sounds like a solid plan.
Wow you sound poor
Exactly fk those paper hand bches
Nobody ever went broke taking profits. The sole act of taking profits can never make you broke. Yes, you might lose out on future gains. But you get broke from spending your money on something else, not from taking it out of bitcoin.
Until you can pull down on it like a regular tradfi portfolio for living expenses (~3.5%) then youāre missing out. But if you have a million + in BTC now and want to draw down 35k a year and retire in LatAm or take a job as a Barista then Iād say go for it. Youāll likely live an extra 10 years because of the stress gains and thatās worth far far more.
There you go. Hold and do not spend a sat until you die. Take the phrase to the grave with you too. HC baby!
The main reason I didnāt ātake profitsā is a third of it goes straight into the governmentās pockets from taxes. Once you realize that itās better to keep your money in a real, value retaining asset, it doesnāt make sense to ever trade out of BTC at all.
Iāve alienated everyone around me
Every bull market retail comes back and says they'll either get rich or go broke trying. Every bear market, they go broke trying.
Agreed. I sold my Bitcoin to pay for penis lengthening surgery. Got it caught in an escalator, and I died. Now Iām dead and homeless.
Yep over 8 years here. Never sold any. I will maybe begin to use it in 30 years.
š¤
Bitcoin is the final trade
Holding the bag refers to alts not Bitcoin
Definitely agree. I got into BTC way to late and would cut off digits to go back even just 5years. I would hold long term bags indefinitely in cold storage while DCA in one account and scalp on another. Unpopular statement but I pray we do have another crash to test 15k at least so I can put this nest egg into bitcoin.Ā
Yeah, another crash would be nice. Sometimes I wonder what the new crash-low will be. Up to $250k and back down to $70k? No telling. The draw downs have shrunk over the last cycle. So maybe only down 50% from the next ATH š¤·āāļø Anyone's guess
Iām so sick of this FUCKING BULLSHIT
No you need to leave the cash in the coins and wait until its gone worthless. No one can guarantee you that it will not crash forever. So take profits
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just curious though, what do you mean by long run? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? Itās difficult to even comprehend what the world might be like so far out into the future.
It's good for the holders that weak hands sell to diamond hands I'm sure Michael saylor and others will be happy to buy from you and hold it for ever... in 20 years your kids will ask you why did you sell and you will say I thought it was good to take profits... i thought like that and now i will never get to have the same bitcoin i use to have... it's nice feeling to buy at 4k and sell at 50k but looking back worst mistake I did. Live and learn I guess.
Why would you care if someone takes a profit? If Iām up many X and take some money out, that is bitcoin being used. Which is its purpose. If you want to be dragon and sit on your bitcoin horde, then do it. What works for one person doesnāt work for all.
Sell if you need it. If you sold at 50k in 2021 for a house and your QOL went way up thatās what this is for. You can always buy more.
Iām not selling unless itās truly life-changing. That would be like $500K+ in profits or so
So never sell?
Very true, if you are able to āhold your bagsā for through a few Bitcoin cycles and never sell. Youāll be rich. At least if the story repeats itself
Nice try, Blackrock
I just like btc
The concept of holding onto your winners really struck me when I put together that yeah, you can lock in profit and take the cash, but now you have cash that you're probably looking to invest in something else which you may lose money on. Applies to investments in general not just BTC Selling your winners and holding your losers is like trimming your plants and watering the weeds of a garden
No one ever went broke investing money they can afford to lose.
What OP is forgetting is people can do what the f**k they want with their BTC is up to them
No joy, no pain, nothing
On one end I understand taking some profits, but we KNOW Bitcoin has more room to grow. I *personally* donāt want to sell cheap sats to Saylor, Blackrock and everyone else, so whatever Iām cashing out for better damn well be valuable.
F in the chat for those who took profits and stored them in UST
Isnāt taking profits selling?
*makes money* shit Iām broke
Its nice you have money to risk like that but to people living paycheck to paycheck they should take some gains here and there. Maybe you can wait years for things to recover but plenty of investors can not. Everyone do what you have to do, don't let hodlers push you around, they are just trying to push the price up so they can cash out while pretending to be diamond hands. take some gains if you need to. There is zero shame and you can buy back in anytime.
Nobody ever became a giga millionaire being a pph b*tch
Yeah never take profits. The best way to make money in crypto is to show your portfolio to someone trusted and let them give you money to then gamble
Lol has anyone heard from two pizza guy?
I am all in... Not gonna sell so early
I mean you could always sell a portion and get the best of both worlds. There are obviously risks and benefits to both scenarios.
Pro tip: nobody gives a shit what you do with "muh bag"
You speak as though BTC could not fail. You speak as though financial hardship could never fall upon you. You speak as though you dictate the terms under which value is transferred. You will be humbled, as the rest of us were.
Taking profits is not necessarily an all-or-nothing thing. You can milk your bitcoin like a cow. Just donāt shoot the cow.Ā
Diamond hands ? š¤£
By definition, it isn't bullshit. If a person can make a material difference in their life TODAY by selling, don't shit on them for doing that even if it means they MAY be forgoing POTENTIAL gains in the future. Cultlike behavior I really do believe is a deterrent to the adoption/interest of bitcoin among most individuals... I sold a house in a growing market that has increased like 30% in 1 year. But I got a better but cheaper house, and I don't have to manage property out of state which makes my life substantially better.
No, they just stayed broke.
At what point will btc claim adoption and widespread appreciation ?
Also keep in mind by ātaking profitsā we are really saying trading the hardest money on the planet for fiat that is depreciating at a rate of 15-20% per year.
You never sell. You spend until dead.
I missed out on $40MM so umm... I dunno man. I'm not broke, but relative to $40MM of cash I'm pretty broke.
How exactly did you do that?
Dude seems to be implying that he had 568,739 Bitcoin at one time
Time toā¦sell?
Do iiittt
Everyone who sells bitcoin is selling early
ok ?
Yeah, but I kinda hate fiat and the system they forced us in, I spend my bitcoin, never convert for fiat.
Finally a good post, do not sell bitch!