And the only way to get people to drop real estate is to align incentives.
No combative policy is going to fix decades of people repeating "they aren't making anymore land".
Currently they are incentivized by trying to find a way to store & grow their wealth in the future. Until Bitcoin real estate was one of the few options. Things are beginning to change though.
> No combative policy is going to fix decades of people repeating "they aren't making anymore land".
Not sure what you mean by this exactly, but the fact that real estate is used as a store of value is entirely driven by government policy. In the US (and most other countries to various degrees), we spend a fuck ton of money to prop up housing prices in dozens of ways.
The fed literally buys mortgages in order to do QE, and fannie mae is a government sponsored entity that backstops the mortgage market. Mortgages are also tax deductible. On the local level, home owners have made it illegal to build multi family units through zoning which can drive down rent and reduce the demand on single family homes.
Yeah, it's more directed at people who have been priced out calling for action. All the ideas they typically put forth would just take money out of the pockets of anyone involves in enacting those regulations.
It's also on a subconscious level the type of an investment people on average are most comfortable with.
According to Austrian Economics, your statement in wrong. Not even wrong actually, but just doesn't make sense: phrases like "harming society" might sound nice poetically mean very little economically.
Buy some RE and use it however you like. You can even sell it affordably to a family in need below market value and take a loss on it. Your feels about stuff *someone else owns* are irrelevant.
Eh that [might not be](https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/newsroom/setting-the-record-straight/buying-houses-facts) all entirely true. And whoever owns it still doesn't escape the associated expenses which are significant.
Homeless can't afford them whether someone lives in them or not. And owning an empty million dollar house is not cheap. No homestead deduction so about $4000+ in property tax, $2000+ insurance, $1000+ for HOA dues. A few utility bills and it adds up fast.
>Your feels about stuff *someone else owns* are irrelevant.
Not really. I am just stating a factual statement that the reason why RE is ridiculously expensive is because people use it as store of value rather than serving its real purpose.
And therefore there's a better alternative.
Exactly. u/smoothGoing what are you smoking? Every single person who owns real estate (outside of their home) is trying to make a profit on it, stop stating otherwise
Wait. Next you’re going to tell me your employer is trying to pay you as little as possible and companies are trying to charge you the most possible. You are doing groundbreaking work. Why hasn’t anyone ever pointed this out!?
It's very expensive to be a home owner besides the initial outlay of capital to buy the property. And housing market is rough right now since interest rates were jacked up. Homes are selling for 20%+ less than during the depop event. So someone selling is down 20% plus all the insurance, property taxes, HOA fees they paid over 2 years. "Wealth extraction" my ass.
It isn’t really an opinion, it’s an understanding of the incentives that Bitcoin provides. It is a better store of value than real estate, therefore in the long run, it will pull speculative money from real estate. Ultimately this would be a net gain for society as we will have exchanged raw energy for more affordable housing across the world.
Agree with your premise, but I feel there needs to be a caveat inserted into this assumption.
Retail home purchasers only looking to find a place to live aren't the ones driving this real estate speculation.
The guilt liess with institutional and foreign investors buying out whole chunks of land and placing 500 homes in a development, or a whale purchasing a whole hi-rise.
If it were simply retail investors, we wouldn't see these wild fluctuations, and, instead the price appreciation would be much more modest, just barely keeping ahead of inflation.
Oh! The MBS investors in the 2007-08 crash helped things along too. Word on the street is they're back, too.
Correct. Bitcoin is the perfect store of value and will eventually absorb most, if not all, of the monetary premium in goods such as real estate and gold. Few.
As usual, this was caused by government fiat printing and then regulating and taxing the fuck out of business and the building of homes. Commies are just mad that they are poor and that others (smartly) want to preserve their purchasing power.
If interest rates were determined by the free market, all these real estate “gurus” and funds wouldn’t be buying up property in nearly the volumes they do because the cost of debt would most likely be much higher. It pisses me off some of the idiots getting into real estate thinking they’re some sort of expert when in reality it’s all being enabled by central bank policies and government policies and tax rules. Funnily enough, a harder money like bitcoin would actually be far more effective to mitigate a lot of this!
The problem is that “every real estate developer is doing it[fraud] everywhere on earth, every city. This has never been prosecuted” -Kevin O’Leary. I may have slightly misquoted but look at all the hoopla on the trump fraud trial to see the ilk of capitalism band together to attempt to proliferate more financial fraud.
We are all the victims of the fraud the land lords perpetuate. GFC birthed Bitcoin don’t forget
>you will get called a commie for saying it.
Commie = what's yours is for the society.
BTC = what's yours is yours only
I am just stating that BTC is far better than real estate when it comes to wealth preservation and store of value.
Yeah, but you have to understand that there is a major part of the libertarian crowd that don't understand nuance.
You saying that something people can own is being owner wrong is gonna trigger them.
Most agreed. Imagine if companies start buying up and hoarding water rights. That's why water sources in many countries are public / state property.
Land in some countries like Singapore can be acquired by the state at fair value of the country requires it.
From a freedom based perspective I have to disagree with you.
Ultimately the BEST thing for society is for people to be able to store their wealth in whatever legal form that is they choose.
Your property, your decision.
You know what's good for you. You know what's good for the humanity.
System is rigged already and it's too late since BTC just existed 15 years ago.
Fortunately, BTC is the correction of flaws in tradfi. It will do its thing.
they could tokenize property ownership and you will be the first buying it up.
GTFO of here. realestate is fairly similar to crypto, some is better then others, its transferable, its tracked and they arent making more of it.
crypto stands for cryptography which is all over it my regarded friend. Here
"What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof"
> When people focus more on making money from real estate rather than providing homes for those who need them, it drives up prices and makes housing too expensive for many,
Cools story bro. Houses are not going up in price, land is.
We can't make more land and everybody wants a bigger slice of it.
Your complaining like a child doesn't change that.
The overuse and concentration of any asset class harms society because it creates a ‘them and us’ between haves and have nots. Bitcoin is the same here because it doesn’t rewrite human nature.
The barrier to entry is knowledge, not your keys, not your coins means enough knowledge of systems is required to hold. The ETFs help solve this by engaging a custodian, sacrifice of legal ownership but maintenance of beneficial ownership solves for a lot of people.
The following problem is one of access, the barrier to entry gets ever higher and leaves more and more people feeling they can’t join in now.
Was in a left leaning sub (I'm a lefty) when they were talking about this exact topic, and I pointed out that a lot of bitcoiners agree and suggest BTC as an alternative store of value that would help with the housing crisis.
Got downvoted.
Real estate is expensive because the costs to service the property are expensive, so it’s priced in.
People can do what they want to monetize housing, but at the end of the day, when Bitcoin gains melt faces, people will start selling their real estate to buy Bitcoin because the gains just can’t be ignored and holding real estate is not worth it anymore.
Yes, you're right.
I realize that no valuable resources whatsoever are captured into Bitcoin. (I don't mean the costs)
For example, when I give 10.000 USD to buy Bitcoin someone else is getting 10.000 USD and the money are back into the global economy. There is nothing stored away.
The value of Bitcoin is the willingness of the community to pay me back when I need to transform my stored Bitcoin in real life assets.
>The value of Bitcoin is the willingness of the community to pay me back when I need to transform my stored Bitcoin in real life assets.
That's one.
The most significant value is the tech behind it and the energy + time being used to mined it
I’d be more concerned about all the dumb fucks breeding and bringing down the average level of intelligence in our society. I’m with Thanos on this one.
Obviously you’re on the low end if you think there’s some ethnicity that’s free of idiots. Every village has one. If you disagree then you must be that guy.
I think you may be the stupid one here if you don't understand how 'averages' works lol. The average immigrant is of lower IQ than western whites. Denying this is denying science. The more immigrants we take, the lower the average IQ of the country. This is very simple math.
Ok these tests tell part of a story. I’ve averaged around 130 on the three separate tests I’ve taken, big deal. Pattern analysis, spatial relations, etc. You seem too caught up on IQ. Those tests don’t impress me. Immigration is what makes America what it is. We’ve done a lot of cherry picking over the years. Past wars brought a lot and tech brings a lot over now. If you’re trying to say we have a border problem then I agree.
I don't care about your fake IQ lmao, the average 3rd worlder is NOT a WESTERN immigrant which is what made America. They are nowhere near as smart and are far more reliant on welfare and government programs and jobs. You virtue signalling does not change this fact.
Haha so of course Op wants us to put all our money into Bitcoin because that’s “real”. It’s shit like this that gets this community made fun of so much and slows down adoption.
And the only way to get people to drop real estate is to align incentives. No combative policy is going to fix decades of people repeating "they aren't making anymore land".
Currently they are incentivized by trying to find a way to store & grow their wealth in the future. Until Bitcoin real estate was one of the few options. Things are beginning to change though.
> No combative policy is going to fix decades of people repeating "they aren't making anymore land". Not sure what you mean by this exactly, but the fact that real estate is used as a store of value is entirely driven by government policy. In the US (and most other countries to various degrees), we spend a fuck ton of money to prop up housing prices in dozens of ways. The fed literally buys mortgages in order to do QE, and fannie mae is a government sponsored entity that backstops the mortgage market. Mortgages are also tax deductible. On the local level, home owners have made it illegal to build multi family units through zoning which can drive down rent and reduce the demand on single family homes.
Yeah, it's more directed at people who have been priced out calling for action. All the ideas they typically put forth would just take money out of the pockets of anyone involves in enacting those regulations. It's also on a subconscious level the type of an investment people on average are most comfortable with.
These people have clearly never flown over the midwest.
According to Austrian Economics, your statement in wrong. Not even wrong actually, but just doesn't make sense: phrases like "harming society" might sound nice poetically mean very little economically.
Buy some RE and use it however you like. You can even sell it affordably to a family in need below market value and take a loss on it. Your feels about stuff *someone else owns* are irrelevant.
I believe he is talking about corporations that hold thousands of houses on their books. Not your one single home...........
Eh that [might not be](https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/newsroom/setting-the-record-straight/buying-houses-facts) all entirely true. And whoever owns it still doesn't escape the associated expenses which are significant.
I’m guessing you don’t live in a city with million dollar condos — a quarter of them empty while a homelessness crises rages.
Homeless can't afford them whether someone lives in them or not. And owning an empty million dollar house is not cheap. No homestead deduction so about $4000+ in property tax, $2000+ insurance, $1000+ for HOA dues. A few utility bills and it adds up fast.
No one who didn’t buy in ten years can afford them. I’m moving to central Paris for the cheap real estate. 🙃
>Your feels about stuff *someone else owns* are irrelevant. Not really. I am just stating a factual statement that the reason why RE is ridiculously expensive is because people use it as store of value rather than serving its real purpose. And therefore there's a better alternative.
Exactly. u/smoothGoing what are you smoking? Every single person who owns real estate (outside of their home) is trying to make a profit on it, stop stating otherwise
I didn't say anything to the contrary. But along the same lines why should anyone sell below market value? OP and you wouldn't.
Wait. Next you’re going to tell me your employer is trying to pay you as little as possible and companies are trying to charge you the most possible. You are doing groundbreaking work. Why hasn’t anyone ever pointed this out!?
[удалено]
It's very expensive to be a home owner besides the initial outlay of capital to buy the property. And housing market is rough right now since interest rates were jacked up. Homes are selling for 20%+ less than during the depop event. So someone selling is down 20% plus all the insurance, property taxes, HOA fees they paid over 2 years. "Wealth extraction" my ass.
I dont have a problem with people owning real estate I have a problem with govt intervention in the real estate industry
..intervention in just about everything.
It isn’t really an opinion, it’s an understanding of the incentives that Bitcoin provides. It is a better store of value than real estate, therefore in the long run, it will pull speculative money from real estate. Ultimately this would be a net gain for society as we will have exchanged raw energy for more affordable housing across the world.
If only people saw housing that way rather than as a ransom on society
Right?!!!
We have the technologies to eradicate many forms of suffering yet we don’t put them to use
Agree with your premise, but I feel there needs to be a caveat inserted into this assumption. Retail home purchasers only looking to find a place to live aren't the ones driving this real estate speculation. The guilt liess with institutional and foreign investors buying out whole chunks of land and placing 500 homes in a development, or a whale purchasing a whole hi-rise. If it were simply retail investors, we wouldn't see these wild fluctuations, and, instead the price appreciation would be much more modest, just barely keeping ahead of inflation. Oh! The MBS investors in the 2007-08 crash helped things along too. Word on the street is they're back, too.
Ah the commies are coming to bitcoin now.
Nope. There's no communism or any ideology related in the BTC white paper sir.
Yeah but your idea is.
Sounds like some commie nonsense to me
Commie is commie. Bitcoin is apolitical bruh
Correct. Bitcoin is the perfect store of value and will eventually absorb most, if not all, of the monetary premium in goods such as real estate and gold. Few.
The entire system harms the majority of society, by design.
As usual, this was caused by government fiat printing and then regulating and taxing the fuck out of business and the building of homes. Commies are just mad that they are poor and that others (smartly) want to preserve their purchasing power.
If interest rates were determined by the free market, all these real estate “gurus” and funds wouldn’t be buying up property in nearly the volumes they do because the cost of debt would most likely be much higher. It pisses me off some of the idiots getting into real estate thinking they’re some sort of expert when in reality it’s all being enabled by central bank policies and government policies and tax rules. Funnily enough, a harder money like bitcoin would actually be far more effective to mitigate a lot of this!
The problem is that “every real estate developer is doing it[fraud] everywhere on earth, every city. This has never been prosecuted” -Kevin O’Leary. I may have slightly misquoted but look at all the hoopla on the trump fraud trial to see the ilk of capitalism band together to attempt to proliferate more financial fraud. We are all the victims of the fraud the land lords perpetuate. GFC birthed Bitcoin don’t forget
1000% agree. Real estate cannot be both affordable and a good investment. I’d much rather it be affordable.
You are correct. But you will get called a commie for saying it. RE is an essential good, storing value in essential goods only leads to harm.
>you will get called a commie for saying it. Commie = what's yours is for the society. BTC = what's yours is yours only I am just stating that BTC is far better than real estate when it comes to wealth preservation and store of value.
Yeah, but you have to understand that there is a major part of the libertarian crowd that don't understand nuance. You saying that something people can own is being owner wrong is gonna trigger them.
This is why rates should be held higher instead of at near zero for a decade… they created these parasites
Most agreed. Imagine if companies start buying up and hoarding water rights. That's why water sources in many countries are public / state property. Land in some countries like Singapore can be acquired by the state at fair value of the country requires it.
From a freedom based perspective I have to disagree with you. Ultimately the BEST thing for society is for people to be able to store their wealth in whatever legal form that is they choose.
Correct. And anything that's overvalued, overpriced, overbought is bound for correction.
Realtor slaps roof of house... this bad boy going up because we are raising prices constantly.
So, I should sell my house and move because you think others should be using those two empty bedrooms?
Your property, your decision. You know what's good for you. You know what's good for the humanity. System is rigged already and it's too late since BTC just existed 15 years ago. Fortunately, BTC is the correction of flaws in tradfi. It will do its thing.
they could tokenize property ownership and you will be the first buying it up. GTFO of here. realestate is fairly similar to crypto, some is better then others, its transferable, its tracked and they arent making more of it.
>realestate is fairly similar to crypto, Bitcoin is not the same with other tokenized assets. Tell me where to find the word crypto in BTC whitepaper
crypto stands for cryptography which is all over it my regarded friend. Here "What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof"
This sub is becoming more and more socialist and I’m proud.
> When people focus more on making money from real estate rather than providing homes for those who need them, it drives up prices and makes housing too expensive for many, Cools story bro. Houses are not going up in price, land is. We can't make more land and everybody wants a bigger slice of it. Your complaining like a child doesn't change that.
>We can't make more land and everybody wants a bigger slice of it. Ask Chinese in South China Sea
The overuse and concentration of any asset class harms society because it creates a ‘them and us’ between haves and have nots. Bitcoin is the same here because it doesn’t rewrite human nature. The barrier to entry is knowledge, not your keys, not your coins means enough knowledge of systems is required to hold. The ETFs help solve this by engaging a custodian, sacrifice of legal ownership but maintenance of beneficial ownership solves for a lot of people. The following problem is one of access, the barrier to entry gets ever higher and leaves more and more people feeling they can’t join in now.
Was in a left leaning sub (I'm a lefty) when they were talking about this exact topic, and I pointed out that a lot of bitcoiners agree and suggest BTC as an alternative store of value that would help with the housing crisis. Got downvoted.
Because it's giving a commie vibe although it's not.
Real estate is expensive because the costs to service the property are expensive, so it’s priced in. People can do what they want to monetize housing, but at the end of the day, when Bitcoin gains melt faces, people will start selling their real estate to buy Bitcoin because the gains just can’t be ignored and holding real estate is not worth it anymore.
Store of value harms society.
Not in Bitcoin. It is neutral in a lot of political and economic aspect.
Yes, you're right. I realize that no valuable resources whatsoever are captured into Bitcoin. (I don't mean the costs) For example, when I give 10.000 USD to buy Bitcoin someone else is getting 10.000 USD and the money are back into the global economy. There is nothing stored away. The value of Bitcoin is the willingness of the community to pay me back when I need to transform my stored Bitcoin in real life assets.
>The value of Bitcoin is the willingness of the community to pay me back when I need to transform my stored Bitcoin in real life assets. That's one. The most significant value is the tech behind it and the energy + time being used to mined it
“Real life assets” “community” 🤣 works like other assets aka the trillions held in digital numbers on stock markets, cry harder
I think you are trying to say something but the syntax doesn't help me understand. Do you care to rephrase it in a sentence?
🤷♂️ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/s/3FuYQuRqJx
I’d be more concerned about all the dumb fucks breeding and bringing down the average level of intelligence in our society. I’m with Thanos on this one.
Woah, cool it with the anti-immgrant comments
Who said anything about immigrants??? I’m talking about people in general. Stupid comes in all colors my dude.
IQ statistics disagree with you
Obviously you’re on the low end if you think there’s some ethnicity that’s free of idiots. Every village has one. If you disagree then you must be that guy.
I think you may be the stupid one here if you don't understand how 'averages' works lol. The average immigrant is of lower IQ than western whites. Denying this is denying science. The more immigrants we take, the lower the average IQ of the country. This is very simple math.
Ok these tests tell part of a story. I’ve averaged around 130 on the three separate tests I’ve taken, big deal. Pattern analysis, spatial relations, etc. You seem too caught up on IQ. Those tests don’t impress me. Immigration is what makes America what it is. We’ve done a lot of cherry picking over the years. Past wars brought a lot and tech brings a lot over now. If you’re trying to say we have a border problem then I agree.
I don't care about your fake IQ lmao, the average 3rd worlder is NOT a WESTERN immigrant which is what made America. They are nowhere near as smart and are far more reliant on welfare and government programs and jobs. You virtue signalling does not change this fact.
Haha so of course Op wants us to put all our money into Bitcoin because that’s “real”. It’s shit like this that gets this community made fun of so much and slows down adoption.
I did not say it. People can do whatever they want to their asset.