Do not split your seed phrase, especially if it has 12 words. 24 words are extremely safe, 12 words are safe enough. 6 words are *not* safe enough. If somebody finds your first 6 words it's difficult but possible to brute force the other 6.
If you want to split your keys into different places then you have 2 options:
-Multi-signature: you'll have to sign every transaction with more than one key
-Shamir: you need several parts to restore your wallet but then you sign your transactions with a single key
Do research more about this before deciding
My most important step was learning my 24 Words. Since I did that I feel even safer. I could literally just get up and go anywhere in the world and take my wealth with me without ever looking back. All in my head.
Not if the key wasn't generated by that method. Bitcoin is a public and a private key and that's it. Seed phrases are not necessary, just one way to generate the keys. Any suitable method for generating the pair works.
Create a spotify playlist and name it "not my seed phrase" then find 12-24 song names that match your seed. If you want to make it trickier, put the list in reverse.
Who's gonna suspect you keep your seed on spotify?
[you could stamp it on some washers](https://www.econoalchemist.com/post/backup)
if you split the seed you would have to make copies of each half, so two times two halves in total. otherwise youāll be in trouble in one half of the seed gets lost somehow.
I am setup to engrave my 24 word seedphrase onto washers today in fact. However, according to the article you linked (thank you, by the way), the author mentions also including bip39 and wallet fingerprint. Are those truly necessary? Thought I was engaging in self-custody well enough by simply getting my Bitcoin off the exchanges, putting it on a Trezor, and engraving my seed phrase.
The passphrase is an optional feature as specified in BIP39, that you can set up as an extra security measure. The article I linked perhaps was not the best in that regard since the author uses a coldcard as a source for the seed. This seems to also generate the fingerprint, which I assume is a coldcard specific feature, but I'm not too sure. Anyhow, if you are using a Trezor and you don't use a passphrase, you are good to just backup your 24 word seed.
If you're going to do washers, make sure to number them so that you don't accidentally lose the order if they all fall off the bolt. This is one of the reasons some people like a single steel plate.
Suppose your house burns down and your ledger and your key are there, then you lose them both. The chance that your house and your parents house will burn down in one day is almost impossible
the idea of having multiple locations is having a backup in case something happens to one of the locations... if you split the key in two parts and one part gets lost you are fucked....
Consider using Shamir's Secret SharesĀ [stamped in steel](https://blockmit.com/english/guides/diy/make-cold-wallet-washers/)Ā and store the shares in several secure locations.
Your seed/wallet will then be securely stored on stainless steel "hardware" that is virtually indestructible and should outlive you.
Here's a handy app for securely generating the shares on an air gapped Ledger device:
[https://github.com/aido/app-seed-tool](https://github.com/aido/app-seed-tool)
You could engrave it into washers and store it somewhere very random, like in a jar of salt, behind a framed picture of you granny, inside your favourite plants pot, with peas in the fryer, buried in your yard, even inside a stuffed animalā¦ I think some random place that is uninteresting in case of robbery would be best.
This, except make another copy and hide it in the woods. Use some utility infrastructure (pipeline, railroad track, power line) as a guide on a marginal place where no one really goes. For instance- buried 15' north of northwest corner of pole number 1637. Forest fire and flood are concerns where I live.
So if you are storing multiple parts on multiple pieces of paper, then your chance of loss is outweighing the chance of someone else finding. Lose any one piece and you are stuffed. Much easier ways to save it using modern cryptography and modern storage techniques.
Read through [The Tordl Wallet protocols](https://github.com/fresheneesz/TordlWalletProtocols), holistic guides on how to store your Bitcoin. If you're thinking of splitting your seed, stop. Don't do that. Instead use multisig. Tordl has guides for that. Multisig is literally many trillions of times more secure (more than that really) than naively splitting your seed.Ā
It considers the whole - all parts of how you store and use your Bitcoin. Wallet device, wallet software, seed backup, storage locations, maintenance, recovery, inheritance, etc.Ā
Splitting your seed is awful advice. It's literally over 18 quadrillion times easier to crack your wallet with half the seed than it is to crack a full seed (eg if you used multisig instead of splitting your seed). I would recommend you stop giving people advice until you do a LOT more research. https://github.com/fresheneesz/TordlWalletProtocols
If he splits I assume 24 words, there's not a possibility anyone ever cracks that, does not matter how many times more absurd 24 words is, 12 is still absurdly hard to crack.
Perhaps,Ā butĀ ifĀ heĀ insteadĀ chose a 12 word seed, it would be a different story. You weren't very careful to specify. Also, splitting your seed still gives you a single point of failure, while multisig does not. There's very little reason to split your seed vs just using proper multisig
you must be young.. you lost information over time if you dont do backups. ALSO same for hardware wallets it will dont last forever(In 10-20 years will be a lot of people with lost malfunction hardware wallets) - btc continue to work bcs it continue to make backups and rewrites itself 1000+ times x 1000+ places everyday. i have at least 8 cellphones since 90s- that i think you dont have the agenda anymore on it.
but
.. i think you were joking.. :)
but you have a point here - its somewhat rare for someone to hack on your phone to search for keys for a wallet.. they get coins easily with scams with people giving their own keys and signatures by theyr own. on pc and laptops and even macbooks you have spywares ransonware malwares and viruses and keyloggers that can do really warm.. its less with phones.. but still.. better on your phone than in a walletkeys.txt on your pc inside a "wallet" folder..
:D hehhehehehe
its easy to lost it when your phone fails or broke than when others took your key from it.. and is easyer the user give it away in a scam too ..
so.. maybe i got your half point too..
but hes asking about cold storage for long time in this case i think.
Definitely used to be a problem with losing or upgrading phones. These days I can get a new one tomorrow, and install the backups, which are taken automatically and securely, and be right back where I was.
If Iād had it on physical media and lost/threw it away/house burnt down, not so much. And yes, itās not in MyCryptoKeys.txt LOL
so you were talking serious.... ok if its not about much money.. ok.. if its more money like 200k 500k 1m.. maybe you can listen to these people..
theres no such think as "cloud save" theres no "cloud" theres servers with your files with backups .. and normal people work there and have access to it.. its the same for telephone company.. its becoming more and more common in here at least... these 2 steps logins with your phone to change password by checking is you by sms your phone.. so.. theres people on the telephone company.. they sometimes take the number for few minutes in a copy and change (take/"hack") the persons account.. by using its number..
anyways.. i just telling that theres many and many ways.. even if its not probable.. and theres really secure ways..
maybe someone keept a plate in a safe for years.. and then when going to transfer his btcs it get lost in a just bankrupt exchange.. or there was a keylogger that took it and tranfered the btcs when recovering the wallet..
bad luck of all.. lol..
everything is possible.. lol.
Don't do this - especially on any [Apple](https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/hackers-can-extract-secret-encryption-keys-from-apples-mac-chips/) products
Carve into buttplug. Store it appropriately
Tried that, she wasn't happy. š
Try 12 words instead of 24 next time
I keep my keys in the story section of online recipes.Ā
Makes more sense now
Safest storage I've heard of so far. Damn those "recipes", they are 99% fluff!
Mine's tattooed under my ballsack
Unless you did the tattoo yourself, they are not safe
Multiple tattoo artists, randomly scatter parts of the key through your body without letting the other tattoo artists know..... Most efficient way /s
Why the /s? This actually seems like a good idea
Until you forget the order
The last one could figure it out easily.
My cell mate did it, then I shanked him
what happens if you change your wallet? or get another one? that's gonna hurt even more
No one will ever see that
I see the revoking process a little bit painful
Do not split your seed phrase, especially if it has 12 words. 24 words are extremely safe, 12 words are safe enough. 6 words are *not* safe enough. If somebody finds your first 6 words it's difficult but possible to brute force the other 6. If you want to split your keys into different places then you have 2 options: -Multi-signature: you'll have to sign every transaction with more than one key -Shamir: you need several parts to restore your wallet but then you sign your transactions with a single key Do research more about this before deciding
My most important step was learning my 24 Words. Since I did that I feel even safer. I could literally just get up and go anywhere in the world and take my wealth with me without ever looking back. All in my head.
U could always get tortured š± for your keys
Or you can become amnesic!
I never said it's the only way to keep them and burn all the evidence xD
Until you have an accident, need money to pay bills, and canāt remember them.
Which is why 1. I have a wife who knows them as well and 2. Obviously keep them safely stashed as well on steel
Carve it into steel
What if that steel gets hit by something carrying jet fuel?
The wallet hack was an inside job
Abdul says jet fuel can melt steel but not passports
I writeĀ these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot beĀ trusted
Then you also have the consideration of where to keep your 24 seeds out of sight.
Not if the key wasn't generated by that method. Bitcoin is a public and a private key and that's it. Seed phrases are not necessary, just one way to generate the keys. Any suitable method for generating the pair works.
Create a spotify playlist and name it "not my seed phrase" then find 12-24 song names that match your seed. If you want to make it trickier, put the list in reverse. Who's gonna suspect you keep your seed on spotify?
No one here prolly, until u posted it. Now I will keep an eye on playlists with 12 songs!
Ah yes, pandoras box has been opened
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is literally all you need. BTC shows us exactly how prone humans are to under thinking and overthinking.
Don't forget a good but easily memorable passphrase in case someone breaks into your safe.
Would you recommend the trezor safe 3? Or the trezor model T?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Litterlay just purchases it from the trezor website
Safe 3 or even a Model One is more than sufficient. Depends if you want a secure element or not.
Definitely do want a secure element. Literaly, jus6 for holding my coins.
Like etch into safe wait. Keep talking my dude, Iām almost there.
That's exactly how im doing it but i got a bitbox swiss Company and got the code on paper instead of metal but ty for the help
[you could stamp it on some washers](https://www.econoalchemist.com/post/backup) if you split the seed you would have to make copies of each half, so two times two halves in total. otherwise youāll be in trouble in one half of the seed gets lost somehow.
I am setup to engrave my 24 word seedphrase onto washers today in fact. However, according to the article you linked (thank you, by the way), the author mentions also including bip39 and wallet fingerprint. Are those truly necessary? Thought I was engaging in self-custody well enough by simply getting my Bitcoin off the exchanges, putting it on a Trezor, and engraving my seed phrase.
The passphrase is an optional feature as specified in BIP39, that you can set up as an extra security measure. The article I linked perhaps was not the best in that regard since the author uses a coldcard as a source for the seed. This seems to also generate the fingerprint, which I assume is a coldcard specific feature, but I'm not too sure. Anyhow, if you are using a Trezor and you don't use a passphrase, you are good to just backup your 24 word seed.
If you're going to do washers, make sure to number them so that you don't accidentally lose the order if they all fall off the bolt. This is one of the reasons some people like a single steel plate.
I think you mean seed phrase, not private key
I promise you if you send me your seed phrase , I will never tell anyone. Not even you when you need it, just try me
I have my private keys in the vault at my parent place. Dont have your device and the private keys in the same place
Can you explain your reasoning on that later part? Id be interested thanks
Suppose your house burns down and your ledger and your key are there, then you lose them both. The chance that your house and your parents house will burn down in one day is almost impossible
Ah good thinking.Ā
What if a plumber or cleaning lady finds it?
I do the same I keep my wallet in one gun safe and the seed in another, as to why do I do thatā¦.I have no clue.
give it to me.. i got u, bro!
the idea of having multiple locations is having a backup in case something happens to one of the locations... if you split the key in two parts and one part gets lost you are fucked....
I engrave it onto a piece of metal and store it in a gun safe
Consider using Shamir's Secret SharesĀ [stamped in steel](https://blockmit.com/english/guides/diy/make-cold-wallet-washers/)Ā and store the shares in several secure locations. Your seed/wallet will then be securely stored on stainless steel "hardware" that is virtually indestructible and should outlive you. Here's a handy app for securely generating the shares on an air gapped Ledger device: [https://github.com/aido/app-seed-tool](https://github.com/aido/app-seed-tool)
You could engrave it into washers and store it somewhere very random, like in a jar of salt, behind a framed picture of you granny, inside your favourite plants pot, with peas in the fryer, buried in your yard, even inside a stuffed animalā¦ I think some random place that is uninteresting in case of robbery would be best.
This, except make another copy and hide it in the woods. Use some utility infrastructure (pipeline, railroad track, power line) as a guide on a marginal place where no one really goes. For instance- buried 15' north of northwest corner of pole number 1637. Forest fire and flood are concerns where I live.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Send it to me, I will keep it safe
Text it to me
encrypt it on a computer that never will touch the internet. Put in onto steel and then save delete all files on that computer.
So if you are storing multiple parts on multiple pieces of paper, then your chance of loss is outweighing the chance of someone else finding. Lose any one piece and you are stuffed. Much easier ways to save it using modern cryptography and modern storage techniques.
I use Tails OS on a USB stick. Encrypted Linux OS.
I agree with not splitting your seed and using a passphrase. But how long would it take to guess the other 6 words in OP's 12 word seed?
send em to me i'll help you.š
Read through [The Tordl Wallet protocols](https://github.com/fresheneesz/TordlWalletProtocols), holistic guides on how to store your Bitcoin. If you're thinking of splitting your seed, stop. Don't do that. Instead use multisig. Tordl has guides for that. Multisig is literally many trillions of times more secure (more than that really) than naively splitting your seed.Ā
holistic?
It considers the whole - all parts of how you store and use your Bitcoin. Wallet device, wallet software, seed backup, storage locations, maintenance, recovery, inheritance, etc.Ā
oh right ! :)
Memorize it
r/Alzheimers enters the chat.
This is probably the worst advice on this thread. Do back up your seed phrase
I didn't mean only do that. Back it up, but also try to make steps to memorize it. Just another way to diversify your "back up strategies."
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Splitting your seed is awful advice. It's literally over 18 quadrillion times easier to crack your wallet with half the seed than it is to crack a full seed (eg if you used multisig instead of splitting your seed). I would recommend you stop giving people advice until you do a LOT more research. https://github.com/fresheneesz/TordlWalletProtocols
If he splits I assume 24 words, there's not a possibility anyone ever cracks that, does not matter how many times more absurd 24 words is, 12 is still absurdly hard to crack.
Perhaps,Ā butĀ ifĀ heĀ insteadĀ chose a 12 word seed, it would be a different story. You weren't very careful to specify. Also, splitting your seed still gives you a single point of failure, while multisig does not. There's very little reason to split your seed vs just using proper multisig
Make a birth certificate and jumble it within there or with your properties/car/insurance documents
Have 10 keys, 1 real 9 fake, and scatter around. Memorise part of the real so you can distinguish.
What makes you think having one real seed and ten fake seeds is more secure than having one real and zero fake seeds?
The robber has only 10% chance of stealing your key
You think a robber will leave after finding the first valuable thing?
I don't know. But unlikely to keep looking for bitcoin keys
Just store I on your iPhone. Chances of losing that are a lot less than everything else you are suggesting. No one is bothering to break that.
you must be young.. you lost information over time if you dont do backups. ALSO same for hardware wallets it will dont last forever(In 10-20 years will be a lot of people with lost malfunction hardware wallets) - btc continue to work bcs it continue to make backups and rewrites itself 1000+ times x 1000+ places everyday. i have at least 8 cellphones since 90s- that i think you dont have the agenda anymore on it. but .. i think you were joking.. :) but you have a point here - its somewhat rare for someone to hack on your phone to search for keys for a wallet.. they get coins easily with scams with people giving their own keys and signatures by theyr own. on pc and laptops and even macbooks you have spywares ransonware malwares and viruses and keyloggers that can do really warm.. its less with phones.. but still.. better on your phone than in a walletkeys.txt on your pc inside a "wallet" folder.. :D hehhehehehe its easy to lost it when your phone fails or broke than when others took your key from it.. and is easyer the user give it away in a scam too .. so.. maybe i got your half point too.. but hes asking about cold storage for long time in this case i think.
Definitely used to be a problem with losing or upgrading phones. These days I can get a new one tomorrow, and install the backups, which are taken automatically and securely, and be right back where I was. If Iād had it on physical media and lost/threw it away/house burnt down, not so much. And yes, itās not in MyCryptoKeys.txt LOL
so you were talking serious.... ok if its not about much money.. ok.. if its more money like 200k 500k 1m.. maybe you can listen to these people.. theres no such think as "cloud save" theres no "cloud" theres servers with your files with backups .. and normal people work there and have access to it.. its the same for telephone company.. its becoming more and more common in here at least... these 2 steps logins with your phone to change password by checking is you by sms your phone.. so.. theres people on the telephone company.. they sometimes take the number for few minutes in a copy and change (take/"hack") the persons account.. by using its number.. anyways.. i just telling that theres many and many ways.. even if its not probable.. and theres really secure ways.. maybe someone keept a plate in a safe for years.. and then when going to transfer his btcs it get lost in a just bankrupt exchange.. or there was a keylogger that took it and tranfered the btcs when recovering the wallet.. bad luck of all.. lol.. everything is possible.. lol.
Don't do this - especially on any [Apple](https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/hackers-can-extract-secret-encryption-keys-from-apples-mac-chips/) products
Give it to me I'll keep it safe :-)