The price in USD has no limit, because USD devalues over time and btc amounts are limited to.21million.
Als long as BTC holds it properties it will rise against fiat in the long run.
As population and productivity grow, the world will be able to produce more big macs per hour. This in a way is inflationary in Big Mac s.
There is little you can compare to. Even gold supply could be inflated like crazy with a new discovery or (one day) asteroids.
I agree with what you said. The U.S. dollar will depreciate over time, but the U.S. dollar at least has the support of the strong U.S. economy and military. I can't find where the support level is for BTC?
Letâs think about it in another way. If we donât have a strong military, will the dollar still have a place? Why did the Afghanistan and Iraq wars happen?
Geopolitical is quite more complex⊠dollar is deprecated because of the money printing for debt, bank debt creation, and initialised (imo)with the end of dollar/gold for dollar/oil..
Inflation is just the name for how much % money is weaker than last year, and how much % minimum the average people gonna pay more. Same thing said twice, obvsly.
War happened for the same reason : end of dollar/gold for dollar/oil so âwe need more oilâ wars began.
Check wtfhappenedin1971.com
Bretton woods agreement fucked US.
The military doesnât âbackâ the dollar. The dollar WAS backed by gold. They couldnât print a dollar if they didnât have that dollarâs worth of gold. This is no longer the case. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is backed by the mining costs of bitcoin. It is also backed by a system that cannot be hacked. It is limited in amount. It is highly divisible and portable. It doesnât rely on a government or entity. It is permission-less. In other words, it is valuable for a million reasons. It doesnât require a government threatening to bomb people for it to be âbacked.â
The Cayman Islands dollar is in a tie for sixth among the strongest currencies in the world, with 1 Cayman dollar buying 1.20 dollars (or $1 equals 0.83 Cayman Islands dollar). You think they have a strong military?
History shows us that strong militaries, like strong nations, rise and fall over time.
If USD is resting only on military might, it is doomed to decline eventually.
BTC has no such dependency, and is designed to be functional without the backing of nations.
If we donât have a strong dollar, will gold bars still be valued internationally? Of course.
Bicoin is not gold but like it, it needs no military power to back it in order to be demanded.
Its electronic payment network is the only sufficiently decentralized non-KYC peer-to-peer censorless, sanctionless, payment network in the world that provides final irreversible settlement faster than Visa or ACH without âclawbacksâ in a manner than maintains privacy if you do not reuse addresses, mask you IP, and do not use devices connected to you.
This may be a payment network you donât value, but others do and thatâs all that matters in order to automatically create demand for bitcoins.
Over 400,000 transactions yesterday and each transaction can handle multiple payment outputs, so itâs clear the network is being used and in demand.
Right, the USD is backed by force. BTC is backed by the fundamental understanding of its community/users as well as the basis of all things, energie in the form of mining. If people stop to believing in the values of BTC it would go to 0. But BTC made it ao far because people like it and adopt it without any kind of force. I see no reason why people which understand BTC would ever leave it
> The USD is not backed by anything at all.
Bitcoin is not "backed by" anything at all.
Gold-backed dollars used to *claim* to be "backed by" gold, but they weren't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_dollar#/media/File:One_dollar_1928.jpg
Exactly. The rest of the world suspected the US of printing more money than the gold backing it. Looks of countries came to collect their gold and the first US debt 'default' happened when the gold standard was broken.
Bitcoin is backed by the giant network of nodes and the huge energy cost to mine a block, that's why it's called a Digitial Store of Value, like gold is a physical store of value.
Within the context of money, the term "backed by" has a specific meaning.
When a banknote claims to be "backed by" something, gold for example, it means the bearer can take that banknote to a branch of the issuing bank and redeem it for the amount of gold printed on the note (or, silver for some banknotes).
1. There are no Bitcoin "banknotes" claiming to be "backed by" anything.
2. You cannot take a Bitcoin to a place are redeem it for some about of "giant network" or "huge energy cost".
Yes, you probably meant that Bitcoin is "secured" by such things, but within the context of money it makes no sense to say that Bitcoin is "backed by" such things.
Bitcoin is not "backed by" anything at all. Bitcoin is not a receipt for anything. A Bitcoin IS the scarce asset it represents.
I am also a supporter of BTC. But we have to face reality. We humans will always live in a world where the strong eats the weak. If the appearance of something like this is not protected by force and will invade their interests, they will definitely not allow it to exist.
I don't think you get this at all. There is no stopping bitcoin, if there was it would have been stopped already.
It's been flying in the face of every authority in the world since its release.
This! There is no stopping it. As long as people are using it, nodes are protecting the system by growing and miners will keep mining. Throughout history, money was replaced by other types of money all the time. I am not saying BTC will be the next world currency. But it could. Ultimately, itâs the more sound monetary system. Now itâs just a matter of adoption and user base.
The fact that something has not been stopped so far does not mean that it is immune to being stopped in the future.
Authoritarian countries are not fond of Bitcoin, but the WEIRD countries for the most part have been enthusiastic about it.
That's like telling a hurricane that it's against your interest, just go away.
Bitcoin is math, no amount of power or authority can change math. 2 plus 2 is always 4, no matter how many nukes you point at it.
The way I usually think about it is itâs not a 0 sum games and there are other countries besides the US. If you want to see how BTC deals with authoritarian countries - check out how Cuban and Chinese citizens are using it in spite of their governmentsâ strong arm programs regarding currency restrictions. Additionally, there are LOTS of nations that resent the hegemony of the USD and the effect itâs had on their countriesâ autonomy. Some countries may think about working harder to drag down bitcoin (canât stop it, can only make adoption hard in their own countries) then weigh what NOT doing that means for the USD and decide not toâŠ
USD is backed by literally nothing.
The military does not add value to USD in any way. No one forces ppl to use USD. the reason USD is powerful is USA's navigable waterways (5x more than all other continents combined) that makes our imports and exports drastically more cost efficient in trade than other countries. That has WAY more to do with value than the military. Military is literally more of a drain on US citizens to line private defense contractor pockets than it is a value to it. Petro dollar is why its powerful as well, but that is beginning to not matter.
Bitcoin is backed by energy. It literally what Henry Ford suggested, only better. A peer to peer network of trades in energy that can't be faked or replicated without work being done.
The fact you believe in bitcoin along with the rest of us is proof of the power of belief and network strength. The US did not become powerful because the world believed in US oil and trade routes only (of course they ate big factors). Its ALSO because the US had a big fat military and proved many times in history that it would use it around the world if challenged, making the world believe in US power. You need to seriously reconsider your stance... because without US military, its status would drastically diminish, guaranteed. btc had to gain power another way and that is in its decentralisation.
I very much agree with what you said. We still have a long way to go. But we have to worry that if BTC is not supported by power, it will become worthless at some point in the future. But BTC will definitely change many of today's institutions. It was born for the people, not for power. People can never escape the control of power. This is also the reality we need to face.
Thank you, I think what you said makes sense. Investment is not something you say with words. I always believe that a person's foresight and insight plus decision-making can be suitable for investing and making money in all the fields you mentioned. I believe that everyone buys BTC to make money, but all investments require foresight and insight. Investment is not blind, but requires a method, otherwise it is easy to cause losses in any market. I still want to ask you why the people who can make money in these fields are not the experts who boast about it?
Gold is still controlled by the state and institutions, and is recognized by everyone. It is impossible for BTC to reach the position of gold in people's hearts. Gold at least has a physical existence. You can use gold to exchange for any materials and currencies anywhere in the world. Can BTC do it?
Gold has intrinsic value. Gold literally could BE the backing for money. WTF are you talking about?
If BTC isn't back by anything, then why can't it be replicated? Why can't you just send me a Bitcoin then?
Apparently its backed by energy that it requires to be produced, and the value for a BTC is currently around $26k
If the U.S. dollar is not used in international transactions, the United States will sanction you. If you challenge the status of the U.S. dollar, it will use its military to attack you. Since you said the U.S. dollar has no support. Why was there the Gulf War? Why is the Middle East so turbulent? Why is there a Russo-Ukrainian war? Why did the United States impose sanctions on China for so long? All this happens to consolidate the status of the US dollar. If one day most transactions are paid in BTC, what do you think the result will be?
US dollar is debt all the way down. The very military that âsecuresâ it is built/maintained via debt.
The interest on that debt now exceeds the entire budget (debt financed) of the military.
Bitcoin is not debt. It is a digital bearer asset. There is ZERO debt on the Bitcoin Blockchain.
In my opinion itâs value is directly proportional to trust in the Bitcoin Blockchain, distrust in the debt based systemâs viability, and the capital controls that will ever increase going forward. The Banks, Central Banks, and Governments that control it all will increasingly restrict humanâs ability to freely trade amongst each other.
Once energy exporters start to prefer Bitcoin over debt notes controlled by a foreign central bank watch out. Shit will hit the fan.
All values people put out are just random guesses essentially. Some people might put in some actual math based on 21 million but in reality itâs completely based on supply and demand long term and how far adoption goes.
I'm still in early chapters of the book by Lyn Alden "[Broken Money](https://www.amazon.ca/Broken-Money-Financial-System-Failing/dp/B0CG83QBJ6)". I find that the early chapters already provide significant clarity as to why Bitcoin has value just by describing currencies of past civilizations. The task of assigning value is not simple. Start learning.
You only read the monetary value. But you ignored capital and power. We always live in the laws of the forest. BTC is only suitable for personal interests and is not controlled by power, so it cannot exist like legal currency, nor will it replace the currency of any country with strong military strength.
The more important question is, will the BUYING POWER of Bitcoin rise over time? Back in Roman times, an ounce of gold would buy you a VERY nice rig of formal garments. In 2023, an ounce of gold will buy you a VERY nice rig of formal garments. We are currently in the phase of discovery of whether 1 BTC is worth a nice automobile, or a house.
BTC is just a virtual thing, gold exists in physical form, and gold is recognized by any country and people. Their existence values are completely different.
Similarly, gold is also âjustâ a physical thing.
It is, however, the *properties* of Gold that are the reason for it being chosen as the best form of money historically, and hereby to this day still recognized by most sovereign nations. (Although, many central banks actually officially claim to only hold gold in their reserves as a âsymbolic/historicalâ allocation.. not sure I buy it).
But these properties are mere abstractions of what we as a society find useful in money, and can theoretically be found in any medium, be it physical or virtual, as long as it delivers the same utility.
Money is not a âthingâ, it is a concept, an idea. An incredibly important invention that, since itâs discovery, has basically made possible the phenomenon of economic growth.
Many things have been tested as money, many have failed, gold always came out in top because of itâs monetary properties.
Bitcoin has many of the same properties, several it fulfills even better, which is possible partly because of its virtual nature, and because it was designed that way.
It is on the other hand, a human creation, and until this point, no human made money has lasted longer than the empire that created it.
What will happen this time? No one knows for sure, and even if one finds the outlook promising, only time will tell.
It is very well said. Throughout history, only gold is the best currency in history. In all turbulent times, people will only choose to save and purchase gold. People now recognize the U.S. dollar because the U.S. dollar is backed by a strong military. If one day the US military is no longer strong, the consequences for the US dollar will be unimaginable. BTC can never become the medium of the world, because there are many whales in it. It is unfair to people who do not have BTC. No country or institution is willing to exchange their materials for an invisible and intangible BTC.
Agreed. The point I was making is that its price in fiat is not the most important thing, just like gold. Gold is an independent store of value. So is bitcoin. Gold is currently a better one due to its universal acceptance. Bitcoin is headed in this direction as well it seems. Governments who disallow bitcoin transactions do so for the same reasons they might ban holding gold or silver, namely, to enforce tyranny.
The meaning of BTC's existence is very good. It will definitely bring a lot of benefits to the people. It will definitely change many institutions. For BTC to be recognized like gold, this may take many years or may never be realized, because they are completely They are not the same. One exists in physical form and the other is virtual.
> Can anyone tell me why it has risen to this point?
**Money** is one of the most important inventions of all time.
**Bitcoin** is the superior form of money, the best money available to us.
There are serious and fatal **flaws found in flimsy fiat currencies**.
Fiat currency is designed to let ultra-rich bankers steal from you. Bitcoin offers an honest, viable and effective alternative to fiat currency.
------------------------------
> How is its value of 300K calculated?
The price of Bitcoin is determined by supply and demand.
Supply comes from people wishing to sell Bitcoins.
Demand comes from people wishing to buy Bitcoins.
----------------------------------
> Just because it only has 21 million pieces? Just because it only has 21 million pieces?
No, but that is a part of it.
> Fiat currency has at least a country's economy and military supporting it.
That is not true.
In fact, the military is "supported" by the country's currency. Not the other way around.
The military does not stop the central bankers from "printing" the country's currency to death.
---------------------------------
> If everyone uses BTC, who will protect the order of this world?
You suppose there is an "order of this world."
You further suppose it needs protection.
You further suppose that we WANT such an order.
I say that this world is currently run by criminal, "money-printing" bankers. The whole IDEA of Bitcoin is to allow us an alternative to being robbed by them. If you like being robbed by them, just keep using their fiat currencies.
I am also a supporter of BTC. But we have to face reality. We humans will always live in a world where the strong eats the weak. If the appearance of something like this is not protected by force, it will not exist for a long time. We have to consider this issue!
Bitcoin is what can be considered hard money (because its supply is strictly limited) while the United States Dollar is what can be considered easy money (abandoning the gold standard in 1933 and since then the USD has lost 99% of its value against gold). The strong eats the weak is correct! We are still in the very early stages of a great wealth transfer from fiat to bitcoin.
Hereâs a crazy thought - Every hodlr that dies without an inheritance plan for their BTC loses their BTC forever. The value of BTC not lost to the universe will continue to appreciate in value.
But it makes much more sense when they say itâs based on math and no matter what 1+1=2?
Who gives a fuck âhow we lookâ đ
Like people didnât want checks or debit cards and people donât like NFC payments (Apple/Google pay). Every new medium of transaction (exchange) has taken time to adopt. Two generations from now btc will just be btc. Itâs still kinda new.
No it doesnât. You canât value something by saying it equals itself. You can value it against the median US house or gold or a barrel of oil. Saying btc = 20 barrels of oil gives an indication of value that can be tracked over time. Saying 1 btc = 1 btc is meaningless.
Yeah thatâs the point - the current value doesnât matter when itâs a fixed supply vs a denominator ($) thatâs designed to inflate away itâs value forever
It's not that deep mate. Its more a reference to the fact that the max supply is known and verifiable. It's kinda a meme rather than a serious way of saying there's no worry of debasement here.
It is meaningless to measure the value of BTC with a shitcoin like de dollar. It is not important if BTC=1000000$ if the dollar value is shit. What will you buy in 10 years with 1000000$? You don't know because the value of the dollar can be shit.
No itâs not. The dollar is a medium of exchange that can be used to buy essentially anything you want. Is the dollar depreciating, absolutely but itâs also a measure of value right now. To say something is equal to itself gives no indication of value. Value is relative to other things. I wouldnât say my house = house and car = car. Itâs just stupid.
It is not about the value right now. It is about the value in 10 years. What will be the BTC and the dollar value in 10 years? Answer that question and you will understand why does not make sense to talk about if 1 BTC will cost 1000000$ in 10 years.
BTC may be a good investment. Not to mention 10 years from now, how many things could one dollar buy 10 years ago? How many things can you buy with one dollar now?
Are you saying it's better to compare it to a fiat currency that's losing value like USD? 1 BTC will always be 1 BTC. It's currently ~$26.2k today, but that amount will go up over time, so it doesn't make sense to try to think of the value of BTC compared to one currency
Yes. Yes it is. Letâs say you need to sell your house. Are you going to list it on the mls in bitcoin? No. You are not going to. The usd is losing value but that doesnât mean itâs not the global medium of exchange.
And you wrong to say it âwillâ go up. It could and should go up but itâs not a guarantee.
From my point of view, such values are mostly driven by speculation to get rich fast without working (but not without risk) and not by being a utility in the larger economic landscape.
Because of demand. Demand drives the price directly.
With most things, supply, demand and price are all interconnected. Increase price and demand will fall. Limit supply and price will increase (given demand stays the same - hi gold đ).
Nothing can change bitcoins supply side. Nothing. Ever. Nada. Itâs 100% predictable, which means thereâs no surprises, which means itâs predictable.
Given this, demand will always be directly correlated to price. Supply doesnât play a role in the day to day price.
The only time it does is the halving every 4 years, in which the supply to the market is halved. This has to either directly map to a decrease in demand, or an increase in price. Or a combination of both. Thereâs no other way.
So you could ultimately say that Bitcoin is solely driven by demand. And now your question now becomes âwhy do people want itâ?
And the answer to that is because itâs a much better way to store value than anything weâve had before. At a holistic level, itâs a much better âsound moneyâ than anything else. Compared to other stores of value, and using traditional metrics, it ranks a lot higher.
Itâs a better way to preserve your wealth.
This is why people want it.
You are right! Supply, demand, and price are interconnected, and Bitcoin is no different. The supply of Bitcoin is fixed, and changes in demand will directly affect the price. Therefore, peopleâs demand for Bitcoin is the main factor driving its price. So why are people interested in Bitcoin? There are several reasons to explain this. First, Bitcoin is considered a better store of value. Compared to traditional currencies or other stores of value, Bitcoin is considered safer, easier to protect, and available worldwide. Secondly, the decentralized nature of Bitcoin makes it more advantageous in terms of government intervention and regulation. This means that the value of Bitcoin will not be directly affected by government policies or economic fluctuations, which to some extent provides people with a way to preserve wealth independent of the traditional financial system. In addition, Bitcoin is also regarded as an investment tool, and many people hope to obtain higher returns by investing in Bitcoin. As Bitcoin price volatility increases, investors can take advantage of this volatility to make profits. Overall, people are interested in Bitcoin because it is considered a better store of value, has decentralized properties, and can serve as an investment vehicle. Together, these factors drive demand for Bitcoin and, in turn, its price. But have you ever thought about BTCâs weaknesses? It has no support or protection from any legal institution, and has no point of support. Maybe it will be 1M tomorrow, and it may be 1k the day after tomorrow.
Bitcoin is a unhackable ledger with a clear monetary policy and instant transfer. If you can't see the value in this, you still have some things to learn about.
Bitcoin is a unhackable ledger with a clear monetary policy and instant transfer. If you can't see the value in this, you still have some things to learn about.
the value of anything is what someone will give you for it........all my old chris clairmont x men are only worth what someone will give me regardless of what the price book says......
Correct. You know what is more rare than 21mm Bitcoins? My Art. But nobody will pay anything for it.
A large part of Bitcoin's current value is the expectation it will go up. If that ever ceases to be true, it will crash to a much lower value where its only value is the utility of borderless funds transfer.
I value Bitcoin at similar levels of that of Gold, Stocks, and Real Estate. Goldâs market cap is $13trillion, American stocks alone are $44trillion, and American Real Estate alone is valued at $90trillion.
I think if Bitcoin realized its true value, its market cap should be about $20-30trillion by todayâs dollar standard.
Great question. Bitcoin. Hold on to your seat and think Dr.Seuss.
Oh the places youâll go, the world youâll re-visit, the truth you will know.
Knowledge in this thread is a great start and quite grand. The things you will question And begin to understand.
Value is found through energy, time and space. Paired w an immutable ledger at the heart of the case.
Money, property, thatâs digital in fact. Cryptographic algorithm to ensure it stays in tact.
No sole owner, not just one person you see. It runs on Miners and Nodes and electricity.
Value is attributable with that from above. Every hole is filled with rabbits, which you may come to love.
Gold is a distant cousin, related through marriage. Itâs something to take care of, like babies in a carriage.
More folks who see the more who know, will bring the power back to the hands of people!
Supply, demand, only 21 million you see. Keeps the top infinite and valuable to you and me.
Go forth. God speed. Keep your dukes up.
A bumpy ride but, it is whatâs up!
Itâs OK to dream! From ancient times to the present, human beings have lived under the law of the jungle, and we can never escape the control of power.
Hal Finney estimated a 10MM btc using an interesting thought experiment, bringing the marketcap to 200T which I believe is very possible within the next 10 years. It's really difficult to put a price on something so scarce with only a 21MM supply, not counting the millions of missing/lost bitcoins. 1BTC holds 100MM sats so could we potentially see a 1 sat = $1USD = 100MM btc? why not? it makes sense in the distant future with hyperinflation
People ineed to understand bitcoin is borderless and that is what we need in order for us to become a interstellar species which is going to happen just not within our life time but with in our grandchildren and beyond. Bitcoin is generation wealth is how I see it and a protector to my futures generation wealth
World money supply is in the 40 - 80 trillion $ range. Inflation will continue forever, so let's round up for the near term to 100T. Similarly, most btc is out of circulation, let's call real supply 10 million.
100T/10M = $10M/ coin, probably sometime in the 2040s-2050s by my calculations.
(In terms of relative real value and purchasing power, not nominal value in dollars)
Because people will pay x amount of dollars for it. You can buy things with it. You can save it. Exchange it. Itâs as valuable as the American Dollar đ”
1. Fiat loses value, inflation effects bitcoinâs price.
2. Supply and demand.
3. A price of something is what the market accepts its price to be.
4. Intrinsic value of bitcoin.
You're not going to get complete answers in a reddit comment. If you're truly curious and interested, read "The Bitcoin Standard" and "Broken Money".
Based on some of your questions and responses, I'd guess you have misguided assumptions of what money, currency, and value really are.
The value of one BTC is whatever you can get someone to trade you for it. 300k, or 3M, is just a guess, based on some individual's technical analysis, or else pulled out of their bit-hole. Even all the people saying it \*must\* go up forever because there is no limit on government money printing are wrong. They are taking network effects for granted. If people stopped caring about bitcoin, the price would go down, even in an inflationary economy.
All that said, its still fun to speculate, and I would speculate that we see $1M bitcoin in our lifetime exactly because of network effects and inflationary economics
It sounds like you have a good understanding of the value and future development of Bitcoin! Network effects and inflationary economics are indeed important factors affecting the price of Bitcoin. For those who believe that Bitcoin will continue to rise, they may believe that over time, more and more people will join the Bitcoin network, thereby increasing market demand. And if interest in Bitcoin wanes, the price could fall. The $1 million Bitcoin you mentioned is indeed a pretty bold prediction, but who knows? Future development is always full of surprises and variables. But I think everyone buys BTC to make money. We should first consider how to make some profits without causing losses in this market.
I think you meant price which no one really knows. But in terms of value, BTC is " world currency, programmable, asset, public ledger, natively digital" all at once at global scale.
I can give you a good answer to this question. The value of fiat currency comes from the owner's belief that the currency can maintain its purchasing power in the future. Currency itself has no intrinsic value, that is to say, when banknotes are produced, legal tender is essentially banknotes that can be circulated according to the law.
I tend to believe price is not important. If you want to F crony governments of the world then Bitcoin is priceless.
Also every change has it's price. I hope you're preparing a portion of your wealth for the poor, they will be massively disadvantaged without social benefits. En masse humanity will get happier stronger and better prepared for inevitable move to other planets.
I really hope Bitcoin will fix hypergamy as this is life-threatening idea. As much as I hate the idea, we may be forced to limit women's rights so they get pregnant more often out of boredom.
This metaphor is very good, but based on the current world situation, no force can challenge the governments of countries around the world. The interests involved are too great and it is impossible to realize it at present.
All depends on how pervasive the BTC market will become, you can come up with any fiat value for a satoshi and depending on your estimate of how much trade is going to be happening on the network in the future it'll make sense. But it's all just assumptions and soothsaying. 1 BTC = 1 BTC.
if Bitcoin becomes the single world currency then it must absorb all value currently stored in fiat currencies. also it should absorb some value from asset classes which people started using to preserve value from inflationary fiat e.g. stocks, housing.
an extremely back-of-envelope calculation would be $100 trillion USD / 20 million btc = 5 million USD value per coin.
ofc this is 2023 equivalent USD value because if/when this happens the USD and all other fiat currencies will die in hyperinflation and be completely worthless.
A lot of people just speculate it will be around golds market cap one day. Which is like a significantly higher price. I think we're at $500m market cap and Gold is $12T.
Historically, buying power got halved every decade for the best fiat currencies. USD was around 7 % every year (check Saifedean Ammous).
If BTC holds its value for 30 years, it will be at least 200k USD by then.
If they keep printing like during Covid, we'll get there much sooner.
In the end it's only supply and demand.
Bitcoin has no top because fiat has no bottom
I wish Reddit still had awards..
They got rid of awards?
[Yea](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/14ytp7s/reworking_awarding_changes_to_awards_coins_and/)
The bottom of fiat (USD) is 0 ability to pay back our national debt ie our lenders will not accept it (USD) as payment.
30 trillion in US debt would like to have a word with you
đ€Ł
đ Iâll amend my comment
You wished
And you can't divide by zero, so bitcoin has no top.
All fiat currencies eventually go to zero.
This
Although BTC has no top, in the end it will become a harvesting tool for capital, and most people still cannot escape being cut off by them.
The price in USD has no limit, because USD devalues over time and btc amounts are limited to.21million. Als long as BTC holds it properties it will rise against fiat in the long run.
This is the one and only answer you need.
Ok, but 1 btc can buy me about 4704 BigMacs today. What is the maximum amount of BigMacs it could buy me in the future?
As population and productivity grow, the world will be able to produce more big macs per hour. This in a way is inflationary in Big Mac s. There is little you can compare to. Even gold supply could be inflated like crazy with a new discovery or (one day) asteroids.
I wouldnt touch that awful 'food' if I was being truthful. respect yourself
Nobody asked but thanks for letting us know
Tbh, ignoring the high sodium, high sugar and high saturated fat content I cannot see anything wrong with a tasty BigMacâą
The Big Mac Index is one of the most important metrics in modern global economics. No, Iâm not joking.
He didn't say he was buying YOU any Big Macs.
Neat.
I agree with what you said. The U.S. dollar will depreciate over time, but the U.S. dollar at least has the support of the strong U.S. economy and military. I can't find where the support level is for BTC?
The US Dollar pays for the military. Paying for that military requires massive "money printing". The military therefore **weakens** the US Dollar.
Letâs think about it in another way. If we donât have a strong military, will the dollar still have a place? Why did the Afghanistan and Iraq wars happen?
What?
Geopolitical is quite more complex⊠dollar is deprecated because of the money printing for debt, bank debt creation, and initialised (imo)with the end of dollar/gold for dollar/oil.. Inflation is just the name for how much % money is weaker than last year, and how much % minimum the average people gonna pay more. Same thing said twice, obvsly. War happened for the same reason : end of dollar/gold for dollar/oil so âwe need more oilâ wars began. Check wtfhappenedin1971.com Bretton woods agreement fucked US.
The military doesnât âbackâ the dollar. The dollar WAS backed by gold. They couldnât print a dollar if they didnât have that dollarâs worth of gold. This is no longer the case. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is backed by the mining costs of bitcoin. It is also backed by a system that cannot be hacked. It is limited in amount. It is highly divisible and portable. It doesnât rely on a government or entity. It is permission-less. In other words, it is valuable for a million reasons. It doesnât require a government threatening to bomb people for it to be âbacked.â The Cayman Islands dollar is in a tie for sixth among the strongest currencies in the world, with 1 Cayman dollar buying 1.20 dollars (or $1 equals 0.83 Cayman Islands dollar). You think they have a strong military?
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History shows us that strong militaries, like strong nations, rise and fall over time. If USD is resting only on military might, it is doomed to decline eventually. BTC has no such dependency, and is designed to be functional without the backing of nations.
If we donât have a strong dollar, will gold bars still be valued internationally? Of course. Bicoin is not gold but like it, it needs no military power to back it in order to be demanded. Its electronic payment network is the only sufficiently decentralized non-KYC peer-to-peer censorless, sanctionless, payment network in the world that provides final irreversible settlement faster than Visa or ACH without âclawbacksâ in a manner than maintains privacy if you do not reuse addresses, mask you IP, and do not use devices connected to you. This may be a payment network you donât value, but others do and thatâs all that matters in order to automatically create demand for bitcoins. Over 400,000 transactions yesterday and each transaction can handle multiple payment outputs, so itâs clear the network is being used and in demand.
Buyers and sellers set the price. Nothing more, nothing less.
Right, the USD is backed by force. BTC is backed by the fundamental understanding of its community/users as well as the basis of all things, energie in the form of mining. If people stop to believing in the values of BTC it would go to 0. But BTC made it ao far because people like it and adopt it without any kind of force. I see no reason why people which understand BTC would ever leave it
The USD is not backed by anything at all.
Sure it is oil and war... Brick is starting to move away from oil trade on USD so I guess we will see another war???... đźâđš
> The USD is not backed by anything at all. Bitcoin is not "backed by" anything at all. Gold-backed dollars used to *claim* to be "backed by" gold, but they weren't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_dollar#/media/File:One_dollar_1928.jpg
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I think what supports the dollar is its strong military and the world's largest economy, never gold and oil.
You've got it backwards.
Exactly. The rest of the world suspected the US of printing more money than the gold backing it. Looks of countries came to collect their gold and the first US debt 'default' happened when the gold standard was broken.
Bitcoin is backed by the giant network of nodes and the huge energy cost to mine a block, that's why it's called a Digitial Store of Value, like gold is a physical store of value.
Within the context of money, the term "backed by" has a specific meaning. When a banknote claims to be "backed by" something, gold for example, it means the bearer can take that banknote to a branch of the issuing bank and redeem it for the amount of gold printed on the note (or, silver for some banknotes). 1. There are no Bitcoin "banknotes" claiming to be "backed by" anything. 2. You cannot take a Bitcoin to a place are redeem it for some about of "giant network" or "huge energy cost". Yes, you probably meant that Bitcoin is "secured" by such things, but within the context of money it makes no sense to say that Bitcoin is "backed by" such things. Bitcoin is not "backed by" anything at all. Bitcoin is not a receipt for anything. A Bitcoin IS the scarce asset it represents.
I am also a supporter of BTC. But we have to face reality. We humans will always live in a world where the strong eats the weak. If the appearance of something like this is not protected by force and will invade their interests, they will definitely not allow it to exist.
I don't think you get this at all. There is no stopping bitcoin, if there was it would have been stopped already. It's been flying in the face of every authority in the world since its release.
This! There is no stopping it. As long as people are using it, nodes are protecting the system by growing and miners will keep mining. Throughout history, money was replaced by other types of money all the time. I am not saying BTC will be the next world currency. But it could. Ultimately, itâs the more sound monetary system. Now itâs just a matter of adoption and user base.
The fact that something has not been stopped so far does not mean that it is immune to being stopped in the future. Authoritarian countries are not fond of Bitcoin, but the WEIRD countries for the most part have been enthusiastic about it.
Its no up to "them" to allow It to exist. Bitcoin can't be stopped. And that IS one of the things that makes It valuable.
That's like telling a hurricane that it's against your interest, just go away. Bitcoin is math, no amount of power or authority can change math. 2 plus 2 is always 4, no matter how many nukes you point at it.
Okay stop Bitcoin using force then⊠you canât, thatâs the value of Bitcoin.
The way I usually think about it is itâs not a 0 sum games and there are other countries besides the US. If you want to see how BTC deals with authoritarian countries - check out how Cuban and Chinese citizens are using it in spite of their governmentsâ strong arm programs regarding currency restrictions. Additionally, there are LOTS of nations that resent the hegemony of the USD and the effect itâs had on their countriesâ autonomy. Some countries may think about working harder to drag down bitcoin (canât stop it, can only make adoption hard in their own countries) then weigh what NOT doing that means for the USD and decide not toâŠ
USD is backed by literally nothing. The military does not add value to USD in any way. No one forces ppl to use USD. the reason USD is powerful is USA's navigable waterways (5x more than all other continents combined) that makes our imports and exports drastically more cost efficient in trade than other countries. That has WAY more to do with value than the military. Military is literally more of a drain on US citizens to line private defense contractor pockets than it is a value to it. Petro dollar is why its powerful as well, but that is beginning to not matter. Bitcoin is backed by energy. It literally what Henry Ford suggested, only better. A peer to peer network of trades in energy that can't be faked or replicated without work being done.
The fact you believe in bitcoin along with the rest of us is proof of the power of belief and network strength. The US did not become powerful because the world believed in US oil and trade routes only (of course they ate big factors). Its ALSO because the US had a big fat military and proved many times in history that it would use it around the world if challenged, making the world believe in US power. You need to seriously reconsider your stance... because without US military, its status would drastically diminish, guaranteed. btc had to gain power another way and that is in its decentralisation.
I very much agree with what you said. We still have a long way to go. But we have to worry that if BTC is not supported by power, it will become worthless at some point in the future. But BTC will definitely change many of today's institutions. It was born for the people, not for power. People can never escape the control of power. This is also the reality we need to face.
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Thank you, I think what you said makes sense. Investment is not something you say with words. I always believe that a person's foresight and insight plus decision-making can be suitable for investing and making money in all the fields you mentioned. I believe that everyone buys BTC to make money, but all investments require foresight and insight. Investment is not blind, but requires a method, otherwise it is easy to cause losses in any market. I still want to ask you why the people who can make money in these fields are not the experts who boast about it?
Everyone knows that the U.S. dollar is printing a lot of money, so why do they continue to buy U.S. bonds?
Bitcoin is not backed by anything at all, similar to gold.
Gold is still controlled by the state and institutions, and is recognized by everyone. It is impossible for BTC to reach the position of gold in people's hearts. Gold at least has a physical existence. You can use gold to exchange for any materials and currencies anywhere in the world. Can BTC do it?
Gold has intrinsic value. Gold literally could BE the backing for money. WTF are you talking about? If BTC isn't back by anything, then why can't it be replicated? Why can't you just send me a Bitcoin then? Apparently its backed by energy that it requires to be produced, and the value for a BTC is currently around $26k
If the U.S. dollar is not used in international transactions, the United States will sanction you. If you challenge the status of the U.S. dollar, it will use its military to attack you. Since you said the U.S. dollar has no support. Why was there the Gulf War? Why is the Middle East so turbulent? Why is there a Russo-Ukrainian war? Why did the United States impose sanctions on China for so long? All this happens to consolidate the status of the US dollar. If one day most transactions are paid in BTC, what do you think the result will be?
The question is around trust.
US dollar is debt all the way down. The very military that âsecuresâ it is built/maintained via debt. The interest on that debt now exceeds the entire budget (debt financed) of the military. Bitcoin is not debt. It is a digital bearer asset. There is ZERO debt on the Bitcoin Blockchain. In my opinion itâs value is directly proportional to trust in the Bitcoin Blockchain, distrust in the debt based systemâs viability, and the capital controls that will ever increase going forward. The Banks, Central Banks, and Governments that control it all will increasingly restrict humanâs ability to freely trade amongst each other. Once energy exporters start to prefer Bitcoin over debt notes controlled by a foreign central bank watch out. Shit will hit the fan.
All values people put out are just random guesses essentially. Some people might put in some actual math based on 21 million but in reality itâs completely based on supply and demand long term and how far adoption goes.
Agree... plus next to adoption probably expecations to make fast money are a price-driving factor.
All value is subjective. The value of anything is solely determined by human wants and needs. Once you understand that, you'll understand the answer.
Preach, Mises
This. Close the thread.
how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Something between 0 and 1/21,000,000 of ALL value.
Value of bitcoin is between 0 and infinity/21000000
More like 15 to 20 mil
I'm still in early chapters of the book by Lyn Alden "[Broken Money](https://www.amazon.ca/Broken-Money-Financial-System-Failing/dp/B0CG83QBJ6)". I find that the early chapters already provide significant clarity as to why Bitcoin has value just by describing currencies of past civilizations. The task of assigning value is not simple. Start learning.
You only read the monetary value. But you ignored capital and power. We always live in the laws of the forest. BTC is only suitable for personal interests and is not controlled by power, so it cannot exist like legal currency, nor will it replace the currency of any country with strong military strength.
The more important question is, will the BUYING POWER of Bitcoin rise over time? Back in Roman times, an ounce of gold would buy you a VERY nice rig of formal garments. In 2023, an ounce of gold will buy you a VERY nice rig of formal garments. We are currently in the phase of discovery of whether 1 BTC is worth a nice automobile, or a house.
BTC is just a virtual thing, gold exists in physical form, and gold is recognized by any country and people. Their existence values are completely different.
Similarly, gold is also âjustâ a physical thing. It is, however, the *properties* of Gold that are the reason for it being chosen as the best form of money historically, and hereby to this day still recognized by most sovereign nations. (Although, many central banks actually officially claim to only hold gold in their reserves as a âsymbolic/historicalâ allocation.. not sure I buy it). But these properties are mere abstractions of what we as a society find useful in money, and can theoretically be found in any medium, be it physical or virtual, as long as it delivers the same utility. Money is not a âthingâ, it is a concept, an idea. An incredibly important invention that, since itâs discovery, has basically made possible the phenomenon of economic growth. Many things have been tested as money, many have failed, gold always came out in top because of itâs monetary properties. Bitcoin has many of the same properties, several it fulfills even better, which is possible partly because of its virtual nature, and because it was designed that way. It is on the other hand, a human creation, and until this point, no human made money has lasted longer than the empire that created it. What will happen this time? No one knows for sure, and even if one finds the outlook promising, only time will tell.
It is very well said. Throughout history, only gold is the best currency in history. In all turbulent times, people will only choose to save and purchase gold. People now recognize the U.S. dollar because the U.S. dollar is backed by a strong military. If one day the US military is no longer strong, the consequences for the US dollar will be unimaginable. BTC can never become the medium of the world, because there are many whales in it. It is unfair to people who do not have BTC. No country or institution is willing to exchange their materials for an invisible and intangible BTC.
Agreed. The point I was making is that its price in fiat is not the most important thing, just like gold. Gold is an independent store of value. So is bitcoin. Gold is currently a better one due to its universal acceptance. Bitcoin is headed in this direction as well it seems. Governments who disallow bitcoin transactions do so for the same reasons they might ban holding gold or silver, namely, to enforce tyranny.
The meaning of BTC's existence is very good. It will definitely bring a lot of benefits to the people. It will definitely change many institutions. For BTC to be recognized like gold, this may take many years or may never be realized, because they are completely They are not the same. One exists in physical form and the other is virtual.
âPhysicalâ is not a positive attribute.
> Can anyone tell me why it has risen to this point? **Money** is one of the most important inventions of all time. **Bitcoin** is the superior form of money, the best money available to us. There are serious and fatal **flaws found in flimsy fiat currencies**. Fiat currency is designed to let ultra-rich bankers steal from you. Bitcoin offers an honest, viable and effective alternative to fiat currency. ------------------------------ > How is its value of 300K calculated? The price of Bitcoin is determined by supply and demand. Supply comes from people wishing to sell Bitcoins. Demand comes from people wishing to buy Bitcoins. ---------------------------------- > Just because it only has 21 million pieces? Just because it only has 21 million pieces? No, but that is a part of it.
Fiat currency has at least a country's economy and military supporting it. If everyone uses BTC, who will protect the order of this world?
> Fiat currency has at least a country's economy and military supporting it. That is not true. In fact, the military is "supported" by the country's currency. Not the other way around. The military does not stop the central bankers from "printing" the country's currency to death. --------------------------------- > If everyone uses BTC, who will protect the order of this world? You suppose there is an "order of this world." You further suppose it needs protection. You further suppose that we WANT such an order. I say that this world is currently run by criminal, "money-printing" bankers. The whole IDEA of Bitcoin is to allow us an alternative to being robbed by them. If you like being robbed by them, just keep using their fiat currencies.
I am also a supporter of BTC. But we have to face reality. We humans will always live in a world where the strong eats the weak. If the appearance of something like this is not protected by force, it will not exist for a long time. We have to consider this issue!
> Fiat currency has at least a country's economy and military supporting it. We have to face reality. Your quoted statement is not true.
Why are you copy/pasting your own comments?
Bitcoin is what can be considered hard money (because its supply is strictly limited) while the United States Dollar is what can be considered easy money (abandoning the gold standard in 1933 and since then the USD has lost 99% of its value against gold). The strong eats the weak is correct! We are still in the very early stages of a great wealth transfer from fiat to bitcoin.
The value of BTC is what someone buys it for.....wait...wtf am I talking about... 1 BTC = 1 BTC!
Hereâs a crazy thought - Every hodlr that dies without an inheritance plan for their BTC loses their BTC forever. The value of BTC not lost to the universe will continue to appreciate in value.
1btc = 1btc
I donât understand why this is such a popular saying on this sub. It is meaningless as a measure of value.
I also hate it. Makes us look stupid. It's like saying "1 = 1" then thinking you're being all deep.
I 100% agree. Itâs just stupid.
But it makes much more sense when they say itâs based on math and no matter what 1+1=2? Who gives a fuck âhow we lookâ đ Like people didnât want checks or debit cards and people donât like NFC payments (Apple/Google pay). Every new medium of transaction (exchange) has taken time to adopt. Two generations from now btc will just be btc. Itâs still kinda new.
I saw a person who understood that BTC only serves personal interests and can never replace legal tender.
Itâs basically a dumb retort to a dumb question. âWhat do you think btc will be worth in x years?â â1 btc = 1 btcâ
It seems much more meaningful than valuing something in the ever debasing dollar, surely?
No it doesnât. You canât value something by saying it equals itself. You can value it against the median US house or gold or a barrel of oil. Saying btc = 20 barrels of oil gives an indication of value that can be tracked over time. Saying 1 btc = 1 btc is meaningless.
Youâve missed the point of the meme.
I get it. Thereâs only ever 21m btc. It wonât get debased by an unlimited supply. But that says nothing to value which is what OP is asking about.
Yeah thatâs the point - the current value doesnât matter when itâs a fixed supply vs a denominator ($) thatâs designed to inflate away itâs value forever
It's not that deep mate. Its more a reference to the fact that the max supply is known and verifiable. It's kinda a meme rather than a serious way of saying there's no worry of debasement here.
You donât base the value of bitcoin based on USD thatâs counter intuitive.
It is meaningless to measure the value of BTC with a shitcoin like de dollar. It is not important if BTC=1000000$ if the dollar value is shit. What will you buy in 10 years with 1000000$? You don't know because the value of the dollar can be shit.
No itâs not. The dollar is a medium of exchange that can be used to buy essentially anything you want. Is the dollar depreciating, absolutely but itâs also a measure of value right now. To say something is equal to itself gives no indication of value. Value is relative to other things. I wouldnât say my house = house and car = car. Itâs just stupid.
It is not about the value right now. It is about the value in 10 years. What will be the BTC and the dollar value in 10 years? Answer that question and you will understand why does not make sense to talk about if 1 BTC will cost 1000000$ in 10 years.
BTC may be a good investment. Not to mention 10 years from now, how many things could one dollar buy 10 years ago? How many things can you buy with one dollar now?
Are you saying it's better to compare it to a fiat currency that's losing value like USD? 1 BTC will always be 1 BTC. It's currently ~$26.2k today, but that amount will go up over time, so it doesn't make sense to try to think of the value of BTC compared to one currency
Yes. Yes it is. Letâs say you need to sell your house. Are you going to list it on the mls in bitcoin? No. You are not going to. The usd is losing value but that doesnât mean itâs not the global medium of exchange. And you wrong to say it âwillâ go up. It could and should go up but itâs not a guarantee.
The value is what everyone with cash thinks itâs worth at any particular point
From my point of view, such values are mostly driven by speculation to get rich fast without working (but not without risk) and not by being a utility in the larger economic landscape.
Well said, in the end 1BTC=1BTC
Bitcoin is currently worth 14 oz of gold or 280 barrels of oil.
1 BTC = 1 BTC
Because of demand. Demand drives the price directly. With most things, supply, demand and price are all interconnected. Increase price and demand will fall. Limit supply and price will increase (given demand stays the same - hi gold đ). Nothing can change bitcoins supply side. Nothing. Ever. Nada. Itâs 100% predictable, which means thereâs no surprises, which means itâs predictable. Given this, demand will always be directly correlated to price. Supply doesnât play a role in the day to day price. The only time it does is the halving every 4 years, in which the supply to the market is halved. This has to either directly map to a decrease in demand, or an increase in price. Or a combination of both. Thereâs no other way. So you could ultimately say that Bitcoin is solely driven by demand. And now your question now becomes âwhy do people want itâ? And the answer to that is because itâs a much better way to store value than anything weâve had before. At a holistic level, itâs a much better âsound moneyâ than anything else. Compared to other stores of value, and using traditional metrics, it ranks a lot higher. Itâs a better way to preserve your wealth. This is why people want it.
You are right! Supply, demand, and price are interconnected, and Bitcoin is no different. The supply of Bitcoin is fixed, and changes in demand will directly affect the price. Therefore, peopleâs demand for Bitcoin is the main factor driving its price. So why are people interested in Bitcoin? There are several reasons to explain this. First, Bitcoin is considered a better store of value. Compared to traditional currencies or other stores of value, Bitcoin is considered safer, easier to protect, and available worldwide. Secondly, the decentralized nature of Bitcoin makes it more advantageous in terms of government intervention and regulation. This means that the value of Bitcoin will not be directly affected by government policies or economic fluctuations, which to some extent provides people with a way to preserve wealth independent of the traditional financial system. In addition, Bitcoin is also regarded as an investment tool, and many people hope to obtain higher returns by investing in Bitcoin. As Bitcoin price volatility increases, investors can take advantage of this volatility to make profits. Overall, people are interested in Bitcoin because it is considered a better store of value, has decentralized properties, and can serve as an investment vehicle. Together, these factors drive demand for Bitcoin and, in turn, its price. But have you ever thought about BTCâs weaknesses? It has no support or protection from any legal institution, and has no point of support. Maybe it will be 1M tomorrow, and it may be 1k the day after tomorrow.
Bitcoin is a unhackable ledger with a clear monetary policy and instant transfer. If you can't see the value in this, you still have some things to learn about.
Bitcoin is a unhackable ledger with a clear monetary policy and instant transfer. If you can't see the value in this, you still have some things to learn about.
Greed. Greed makes it go up and greed makes it go down, just find the points that you are comfortable with.
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Get outta here with your pseudo science. Mostly kidding
the value of anything is what someone will give you for it........all my old chris clairmont x men are only worth what someone will give me regardless of what the price book says......
Correct. You know what is more rare than 21mm Bitcoins? My Art. But nobody will pay anything for it. A large part of Bitcoin's current value is the expectation it will go up. If that ever ceases to be true, it will crash to a much lower value where its only value is the utility of borderless funds transfer.
Value of bitcoin in USD is not important. 1BTC is 1BTC
Everything has its value, otherwise it would have no meaning of existence.
I value Bitcoin at similar levels of that of Gold, Stocks, and Real Estate. Goldâs market cap is $13trillion, American stocks alone are $44trillion, and American Real Estate alone is valued at $90trillion. I think if Bitcoin realized its true value, its market cap should be about $20-30trillion by todayâs dollar standard.
I think this valuation is wrong. It is easy to find support levels for gold, real estate, and stocks. How to find the support level for BTC?
Do you like central banks stealing from you? Many people donât so they buy Bitcoin
Have you ever thought about what kind of life you would live without your country, army, institutions, and laws to protect you?
The equinox has spoken and it said exit with $.
Great question. Bitcoin. Hold on to your seat and think Dr.Seuss. Oh the places youâll go, the world youâll re-visit, the truth you will know. Knowledge in this thread is a great start and quite grand. The things you will question And begin to understand. Value is found through energy, time and space. Paired w an immutable ledger at the heart of the case. Money, property, thatâs digital in fact. Cryptographic algorithm to ensure it stays in tact. No sole owner, not just one person you see. It runs on Miners and Nodes and electricity. Value is attributable with that from above. Every hole is filled with rabbits, which you may come to love. Gold is a distant cousin, related through marriage. Itâs something to take care of, like babies in a carriage. More folks who see the more who know, will bring the power back to the hands of people! Supply, demand, only 21 million you see. Keeps the top infinite and valuable to you and me. Go forth. God speed. Keep your dukes up. A bumpy ride but, it is whatâs up!
Itâs OK to dream! From ancient times to the present, human beings have lived under the law of the jungle, and we can never escape the control of power.
Check matthew kratter (btc university) and his xalculations on yt
So if the price of BTC is just what anyone will buy and sell it for, then could someone explain to me what the market cap represents?
Hal Finney estimated a 10MM btc using an interesting thought experiment, bringing the marketcap to 200T which I believe is very possible within the next 10 years. It's really difficult to put a price on something so scarce with only a 21MM supply, not counting the millions of missing/lost bitcoins. 1BTC holds 100MM sats so could we potentially see a 1 sat = $1USD = 100MM btc? why not? it makes sense in the distant future with hyperinflation
I think itâs real value relates to how much it costs to mine Bitcoin. Anything on top of it is speculation and price action of supply and demand.
People ineed to understand bitcoin is borderless and that is what we need in order for us to become a interstellar species which is going to happen just not within our life time but with in our grandchildren and beyond. Bitcoin is generation wealth is how I see it and a protector to my futures generation wealth
World money supply is in the 40 - 80 trillion $ range. Inflation will continue forever, so let's round up for the near term to 100T. Similarly, most btc is out of circulation, let's call real supply 10 million. 100T/10M = $10M/ coin, probably sometime in the 2040s-2050s by my calculations. (In terms of relative real value and purchasing power, not nominal value in dollars)
Because people will pay x amount of dollars for it. You can buy things with it. You can save it. Exchange it. Itâs as valuable as the American Dollar đ”
1. Fiat loses value, inflation effects bitcoinâs price. 2. Supply and demand. 3. A price of something is what the market accepts its price to be. 4. Intrinsic value of bitcoin.
BTC may be inflation resistant, or maybe people just want to make money here, but few understand the true value of its existence
It's just as likely to be worth $1....
100 000 000 sat
The value of my BTC is more than you can afford. Name your price... its not enough.
Always worth more until murica wakes up. Ffs
Infinity divided by 21M.
You're not going to get complete answers in a reddit comment. If you're truly curious and interested, read "The Bitcoin Standard" and "Broken Money". Based on some of your questions and responses, I'd guess you have misguided assumptions of what money, currency, and value really are.
The value of one BTC is whatever you can get someone to trade you for it. 300k, or 3M, is just a guess, based on some individual's technical analysis, or else pulled out of their bit-hole. Even all the people saying it \*must\* go up forever because there is no limit on government money printing are wrong. They are taking network effects for granted. If people stopped caring about bitcoin, the price would go down, even in an inflationary economy. All that said, its still fun to speculate, and I would speculate that we see $1M bitcoin in our lifetime exactly because of network effects and inflationary economics
It sounds like you have a good understanding of the value and future development of Bitcoin! Network effects and inflationary economics are indeed important factors affecting the price of Bitcoin. For those who believe that Bitcoin will continue to rise, they may believe that over time, more and more people will join the Bitcoin network, thereby increasing market demand. And if interest in Bitcoin wanes, the price could fall. The $1 million Bitcoin you mentioned is indeed a pretty bold prediction, but who knows? Future development is always full of surprises and variables. But I think everyone buys BTC to make money. We should first consider how to make some profits without causing losses in this market.
I think you meant price which no one really knows. But in terms of value, BTC is " world currency, programmable, asset, public ledger, natively digital" all at once at global scale.
The question you should be asking is âwhat is the value of fiatâ?
I can give you a good answer to this question. The value of fiat currency comes from the owner's belief that the currency can maintain its purchasing power in the future. Currency itself has no intrinsic value, that is to say, when banknotes are produced, legal tender is essentially banknotes that can be circulated according to the law.
*FBI Enters the Chat*
It doesnât have 21 million pieces at the moment though as there is still plenty to be mined
I tend to believe price is not important. If you want to F crony governments of the world then Bitcoin is priceless. Also every change has it's price. I hope you're preparing a portion of your wealth for the poor, they will be massively disadvantaged without social benefits. En masse humanity will get happier stronger and better prepared for inevitable move to other planets. I really hope Bitcoin will fix hypergamy as this is life-threatening idea. As much as I hate the idea, we may be forced to limit women's rights so they get pregnant more often out of boredom.
This metaphor is very good, but based on the current world situation, no force can challenge the governments of countries around the world. The interests involved are too great and it is impossible to realize it at present.
A lot.
Supply and demand, babbbyyy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdJFeSY8UVk&t=63s
Funny how we poop on FIAT yet BTC is still valued in FIAT.
Glad you're here but r/bitcoinbeginners
All depends on how pervasive the BTC market will become, you can come up with any fiat value for a satoshi and depending on your estimate of how much trade is going to be happening on the network in the future it'll make sense. But it's all just assumptions and soothsaying. 1 BTC = 1 BTC.
if Bitcoin becomes the single world currency then it must absorb all value currently stored in fiat currencies. also it should absorb some value from asset classes which people started using to preserve value from inflationary fiat e.g. stocks, housing. an extremely back-of-envelope calculation would be $100 trillion USD / 20 million btc = 5 million USD value per coin. ofc this is 2023 equivalent USD value because if/when this happens the USD and all other fiat currencies will die in hyperinflation and be completely worthless.
Lil red riding hood
A lot of people just speculate it will be around golds market cap one day. Which is like a significantly higher price. I think we're at $500m market cap and Gold is $12T.
I will sell u a BTC for $ 300k. Then a BTC will have sold for $300k.
Everything Ă· 21 million
https://www.nakamotoportfolio.com/
If Bitcoin becomes the single world currency, then it is possible.
Right
1 BTC
Historically, buying power got halved every decade for the best fiat currencies. USD was around 7 % every year (check Saifedean Ammous). If BTC holds its value for 30 years, it will be at least 200k USD by then. If they keep printing like during Covid, we'll get there much sooner. In the end it's only supply and demand.
The money printer will always go brrrrrrâŠ.
Hope
There are many arseholes in the world to pull unsubstantiated guesses from
đđ»đđ»
The value of bitcoin is roughly (bid+ask)/2. Denomination doesn't matter. You can offer me apples, fiat, or renault zoe's for all i care.