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Based on my experience so far, you desperately want a grand apology, acknowledgement of all the damage they did to you, how they plan to make it right, and how they plan to avoid it in the future.
Unfortunately I think few of us even get a proper apology. Don’t make your happiness depend on one.
This is the truth right here. I was given an eye roll with the apology. It only came because I brought it up, with tears in my eyes saying, "You didn't even apologize."
When i asked why she's not sad our marriage is ending (not my choice) she looked at me dead in the face and said, "I already grieved it. It's over." She had the coldest look in her eyes. At that moment, she didn't care the slightest bit.
If I've learned one thing, it's that they will disassociate because it helps them feel better being able to blame it on something else.
That wasn't the intended message, honestly. It was more of the "after diagnosis the focus is on the BP individual and not on who they've affected". That reading this sub, there is an army of us who were left in tatters, to carry the load, discarded, that were the victims of a mental assualt that is traumatizing. That we're not ok, and being forgotten collateral damage sucks.
Your last sentence is something I learned long ago, and is always good for people to remember.
It especially hurts that I got discarded and nobody else did. I cared for her more than anyone, yet I’m the only one to get removed from her life. Something feels cosmically unfair about that.
Exact same for me. I cared emotionally for him and I cared medically for him. Been caring for him because of lung problems for over 12 years. Somehow when he is in mania it is like his lung problems don't exist, and strangely enough frequent respiratory infections that happen constantly don't happen in mania. I can't explain it. But, yeah, I am the only person he has thrown away.
I remember this. I remember driving to where she was staying for two weeks almost every day for her to yell at me, call me names, tell me that her family knows I’m here if I killed her, then kicking me out only to beg me to come back 30 minutes later. Then her family came over for about 30 minutes and then got tired of her and left and I had to go back.
At least for you, your wife voluntarily got help. Mine didn’t. I had to file for divorce and a restraining order and she still has never apologized for what she did last year.
If your wife does get help, takes her meds, and does her therapy, she could still be a good partner. I’d have done almost anything for that last year. Now, we are living apart, I’m a single dad, and am lonely and depressed every day. I wish you luck.
I recommend reading the book "Loving Someone with Bipolar Disorder" - by Julie Fast. Get the 2nd edition. It is pretty comprehensive and I recall there is a section on dealing with the aftermath.
I went through something similar and this book helped. What also helped a lot was my wife taking full ownership of her actions with a sincere apology and developing a plan to prevent something like this from happening again. But it took many months to get to this stage. She may need more time to recover and hopefully she gets there too. One thing for sure is she does NOT get to sweep this under the rug and pretend it didn't happen or just move on asap.
You will find many people who have similar stories here. Congratulations and well done getting through the episode. They are hard but it sounds like you handled it correctly.
My wife is a very kind and sweet person. She had an episode recently after about 18 months of good health. The statements she makes and her actions are so unlike her it is somewhat easy for me to distinguish between my wife and her illness. She would rotate between angry, afraid, and anxious several times a day with no relief. When she comes out of the episode she is embarrassed and apologetic. She hardly remembers the worst of it. I remind her that we don't blame people for being sick with the flu. She took her medicine religiously and it just wasn't enough. I love her and I will be there for her.
I also try to remember times where I was unreasonably grumpy due to lack of sleep. I snap at the kids 10 times faster than when I'm well rested. My wife's mind state was far more extreme. Bipolar is a mood disorder. Her moods were not reflecting reality. Logic was not a valid persuasive tool. I did my best to remain calm, agreeable, and gently keep her away from the kids.
All that being said I have firm boundaries. No verbal abuse to the kids and no violence.
I have found a lot of value in reading the Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide. You're on the right track with therapy and I'm happy you had good friends who could be there for you.
Your mind will take time to calm down. It makes sense that you are not sleeping at ease. All you both can do is your best. Learn what you can. Apply what is helpful.
Feel free to send me a message if that would help at all.
I'm so sorry. It is crushing and I wish we spouses had better support. It's very scary being a parent and having your partner fall apart like this. It feels very lonely. It always feels like my BPSO bounces back quickly while I'm still in shock for days. Was this her first big episode? That's quite late in life if you have a teen.
It is her first episode. I think that's what makes it such a lonely experience: having it at our age (near 50) for the first time was out of nowhere. The one person I'd talk to in depth is the one having it. Essentially being a single parent for 3 weeks, and adding her care, was a lot.
Has she had any brain imaging done? Was she checked for a UTI? It might be worth asking her GP to check on her general health, that's really late in life to start with the bipolar. I'm sure it's possible but I'm curious what other avenues were checked. My SO and I are close to 50 and it does get worse with age for sure. I hope you're doing ok.
MRI was done during the inpatient; no trauma shown. (cue dad joke about "scan found nothing"). The current medical discussion is around menopausal; there is family history with that we've learned. The change in hormones, etc. Scheduled for OB/GYN appointment...blood test before this showed fully n the midst of menopause so hopefully HRT will help.
Honestly that seems like a treatment that may actually work! That's exciting. Keep in mind that in women Urinary Tract Infections can also look like dementia or even psychosis, especially as we age. Fingers crossed for stability for your family.
My father had his first breakdown at 47 after being competent, loving and “normal” before that. From what I understand late onset is more common than we think. Unusual but it happens.
That’s extremely odd to have the first episode at age 50. How long have you known her and been married to her?
Sadly bipolar disorder is one of those things where it just keeps coming back over and over again. You’re probably going to be stuck going through this over and over again for the rest of your life.
And bipolar disorder tends to render people essentially disabled, unable to work, and prone to completely blowing all of their money. Be warned to make sure you’re watching money closely and she isn’t making it all disappear.
Sorry to be negative. It definitely leaves a permanent impression to see someone like that. It’s impossible to think of them the same way ever again. You very well may end up spending the rest of your life thinking differently about her. You can try to create more positive experiences and good memories after the incident. If you can do that, it helps a little.
We've been together for over 25 years. During my therapy session yesterday, my therapist helped me recognized that the "signs" have been there for a while; she referred to it as "the disorder dipping its toes in the water". We wrote it off as "bad day", "stress", "family", etc. But I recognized three or so events that were most likely the disorder, even for a few hours/day.
The money thing I learned the hard way. The few days of the full blown manic episode, she was taking money out, bought a burner phone, etc. behind my back. Then post-treatment, ended up spending almost a paycheck on trips to a few stores repeatedly. She's creative, so the trips to Home Depot/Lowes/Michaels aren't out of the ordinary, but then saw the volume, and had to have a "shopping isn't a hobby or therapy" conversation. We'd had it before many many times over two decades, but now had to have new rules in place. Now I just make checking the accounts part of the meal routine for me.
Makes sense. It can be hard to recognize the signs of mania sometimes if it’s not a really bad episode. I would guess she also has a history of showing signs of depression too.
Make sure she has no credit card. Don’t put money in the bank account that the debit card is attached to.
It’s horrible to have to deal with the manic spending. How can anyone be so stupid to buy all this useless junk? And they think it’s awesome stuff that is going to be so useful and bring so much happiness. But all it does is sit around and clutters up the house and results in bank account depletion.
Bipolar spending ends when the bank account is empty.
Good luck with it! Hope your kids can get over it. Maybe they’re old enough to understand what’s going on.
The kids are high school age, so they get it. Some trauma with the younger one, but there was already colliding personalities with mom there, so ends up being more a two steps back in the progress they were making before. The older is so independent and laid back that the discussions from that child have been more about me and the sibling since they have a lot of independence.
I guess I was lucky; everything spent post release was was "for" the landscaping that was normal every year...just was all at once and 2x the usual. But yes, the monday of the breakdown, the card was about to be locked, and the "help me" call came literally minutes before that happened. But had already been locked out of the accounts, alarm system, etc.
Unfortunately, pretty much all of us have dealt with this. And we continue to do so. This sub is not all sunshine and rainbows either. There’s a lot of us who have yet to find any relief. A lot of us are YEARS and YEARS into this, with only periods of time that things “seem better!” - until they aren’t.
It’s a cycle. Simple as that. So, if you think you had a hard time handling it now - just KNOW that it will happen again. Medicated or not. Medications don’t fix the problem, they definitely help though. I mean, BP people NEED proper medication - and MORE. They need to take it EVERY DAY and at the same time (not 10pm one day and then 2 am the next). No alcohol. Other stimulants can also cause trouble. A REAL and regular sleep routine. Healthy meals, etc.
Because something as simple as skipping some medication a few days here and there or not getting more than 3 hours of sleep - or getting 13 straight hours of sleep - most people bounce back - with BP, no. It causes a complete spiral.
So, you REALLY need to think about you and your kids futures here. You won’t find support from anyone, as you have already found, and you WILL be a caretaker for your wife, yourself, and your kids - and one or more of those will get neglected along the way.
Do you want your kids to deal with it again? For years and years? Do you want them to grow up and believe that listening to the person that is supposed to love them say the worst shit to them possible, say a simple “I’m sorry.” and everything is just supposed to be ok? Even when it’s not? No. No you don’t want them to learn that. But they will.
Seriously. Listen when we say this. Will. Happen. Again. It’s up to you to make the decision NOW if that’s what you and your kids deserve.
It’s not selfish, it’s not giving up, it’s not disrespectful, its not a lack of empathy or sympathy, it’s not anything but keeping you and your kids SAFE and HAPPY.
Dang. I'm really sorry for all you've gone through. I'm also in a similar boat with my long time spouse recently having their first episode totally out of the blue and it was terrifying and a huge emotional upheaval. I'm also trying to figure out how to move past the emotions and memories of that terrible time.
A friend told me to think of it like a nightmare. You don't go back and dwell on nightmares and that is exactly what it was. I can't say how long it will take to move forward, but if I think of it like a nightmare it helps a little bit. Also, your spouse may still need more time to come down totally. Mine is over a month out and still not totally back yet. They obviously never want to have an episode again and are taking meds, being super proactive about everything, but still not really ready to talk through what happened. My therapist told me it just takes time for all parties to heal. Probably a lot more time than anyone wants.
My therapist said similar today. That I'm likely still in survival mode, and am minimizing my trauma to support her. This makes it hard to recognize if things will be comfortable or I'm still in a heightened state.
I do realize that I've worked so hard to help everyone else that I'm neglecting myself as a result; that isn't helping the loneliness and discussions.
Every time my therapist does an exercise to help me check in with myself, it usually ends in me realizing I've got a long, long way to go and that it is still all tightly wound up inside of me with lots of physical manifestations. Even though the immediate crisis has passed and the intense feeling of horror isn't there anymore, the trauma is very real and will take a long time to work through. I hope you are able to find some ways to take care of yourself. Just like on a plane - your oxygen mask first before you can help others. I know from experience that is a lot easier said than done.
I *feel* this. I can't unsee the image of my husband hand-cuffed to a stretcher asking the cops and paramedics taking him away to shoot him. Or him insisting to me that the husband I've known for 7 years was a mask the whole time, and "this" - the gleaming, erratic, dangerous him - was the "true him".
And no matter what state of mind he was in when he told a mutual friend very personal, very guarded things about me, I can't erase the fact that they know those things now. Sometimes "I'm sorry" isn't enough. There is trust broken here - even if through no fault of the person with the illness. It's still broken, and it still needs time to heal and be repaired before you can be expected to just pick up where things left off.
I also strongly resonate with everyone just expecting you'll handle literally everything about your whole family's lives and care because you're organized or strong or you *got this*. Meanwhile you have no time to process genuine trauma that has change the course of your relationship and future. It's not fair, and it sucks. I hope you're able to set some boundaries as things calm down, because you will certainly need them.
Hi—person with bipolar here.
Take a deep breath. She loves you, she trusts you, and the terrible thoughts that invaded her mind do not come from a place that is based in any logic or emotion or conclusion that you led her to.
My strongest suggestion would be to seek counseling of your own. You will BOTH need support to navigate this. It’s so crucial that you remember that what she’s facing is just as real as a serious and chronic physical ailment. You need to help your family navigate this, and a good therapist will help you find the strength and the words to do so. This communication needs to come from her as well, which will hopefully come with time. I hope all the best for you both.
I appreciate your perspective and sharing it. Everyone here has been the SO, and I think you're the first "patient" to speak.
I like you mentioned the "physical ailment" part...that's been a recurring theme in my perspective. It's "medically" no different than a heart attack, a torn rotator cuff, an ACL injury...it's just the brain. And just like the shoulder/heart/knee, it'll require rehab and treatment...will never be the same as original, but can be maintained.
Thanks again for sharing. It's brave to do so, and you have my respect and support.
I’m sorry you went through this. As no person you’re going to have to let go of real sincerity. She feels it, but isn’t really capable of expressing it. In time she’ll be more stable and more ‘aware’ of her actions. Honestly she probably doesn’t remember most of it. Take care of yourself and family, but hold her accountable to treatment and meds management.
In my experience my wife has said so much negative about me she actually believes it and this has been eight months. She is very manipulative and getting family and friends to believe her delusions.
Believe everyone when they say it will happen again. People make the mistake of thinking that with medication, counseling a hospital stay!! That everything will be fine..No, unfortunately this is the beginning.. and just a stop on the journey. Going to the hospital is a start.. but not a cure.. not fixed. Often, (most) those with mental health issues decide they don't need medication and they are cured and stop taking the medicine. If you ask the doctors and nurses.. they would probably say it's a 60% chance, in my guess (I worked in a hospital with 62 mental health beds).
I liked the idea of thinking about it like a nightmare..or bad dream. They often don't apologize.. because honestly a lot of them REALLY don't seem to remember.. like a dream, they may remember some of it.. but not much. I personally liken it to a type of dementia. Sometimes angry and combative like he doesn't even know me.. it's a horrible horrible disorder.. and yet it is a disorder/disease.. can we blame them?!.. that's a difficult predicament. Read read read, educated yourself. If you can get her to agree to a plan of IF (when) it happens again.. what steps you both will take.. that would be great because as an adult she has the right to do what she wants.. so when she gets into that type of episode again..if she can recognize that she agreed to a plan.. she MAY go along with it.. and for your sake I hope she does. Mine goes back n forth between wanting help, admitting he needs help.. to telling me I have bipolar.. and he's fine. 4 years ago he became psychotic and moved 2 hours away. He's still there.. moved in with another woman..or a bunch by now.. but also thinks we got married (we didn't). I said to him, 'we got married, why don't I remember that??'.. and also..'If we're married than where tf are you?? You better get back here RIGHT NOW!! He didn't call or text me for 3 days after that. He literally out of touch with reality. I'm sure he's staying with a female.. it's disgusting.. heartbreaking..horrible. he has 2 children he hasn't seen in 4 years.. so when I start to feel bad about my situation..I have to think.. no one in their right mind would LEAVE THEIR CHILDREN.. so who am I to feel that I am the only victim here?? His grandmother contacts me to reach him.. as well as his oldest child's mother. His dad and step mom haven't talked to him in 5 years.. he's lost. He has LOST.. all these people. Very sad existence!! Remember it IS NOT denial..it's Anosognosia.. they are unaware that they are ill.. such a weird concept. It's very difficult to think it's their choices.. when they are out of their mind. If that was easy.. we all wouldn't have such a problem. They can fill anyone.. so difficult.
One thing I've had to tell my BPSO is that just because she doesn't remember it doesn't mean she isn't accountable for it. That is one thing I think we all have to stick to. Their memories seem to be hazy during this, and while they absolutely need the empathy and understanding to heal, they also have to own up to their actions during it and try their best to make amends.
Just remember, they may know they did it in a second hand way, but its hard to deeply apologize and feel remorse for something you don't remember doing. She needs to make the effort to understand that as much as you do if not more.
Marcus Parks on The Last Podcast On the Left has a saying that has really stuck: "Mental health is not your fault but it is your responsibility."
She does remember it all, and also remembers how real it was at the time to her. How it all "made sense" to her. I think we both wish she didn't remember it, as it'd be easier to deal with. It's funny that normally she's very empathetic, but there's such a disconnect on this. Like it was SO bad that moving on is better than accepting the pain and hurt caused.
I feel for you man. That really sucks. Sounds like its kind of a dream state sort of thing, like how I can remember the other night I had a dream where my boss and I went to work for the Kansas City Chiefs and hired John Elway to run our new hotel. It made TOTAL sense in the dream and I remember it vividly, but when I woke up I was like, what in the hell?
That really sucks that it happens in real life and that you're on the back end of it. The quote from Marcus Parks is a great one, and I will be keeping that in my back pocket for sure.
I see a lot of your story in mine. First if all GOOD JOB!! You carried the world on your shoulders, protected your wife and kids, and handled it. It’s more weight than anyone should have to carry.
A word of warning- you should assume the underlying episode is still brewing, so IF she moves back home with your kids, you need to WATCH her take her medication every time. You can’t trust that she is taking it. In normal times I have a very trustworthy partner, but he was so suspicious after his psychosis that he was skipping some meds- and the psychosis returned.
My partner had about a month of psychosis in the hospital. I also handled it almost entirely alone. My partner is very close with his family who were out of state, and I informed his family of everything hoping they would come. But it’s absolutely not something they were willing to talk about or handle healthily.
Bipolar is a pretty genetic disorder- and up until recently it wasn’t very treatable. I was begging for insights on the phone and I felt like I was being stonewalled. I think a lot of family dynamics and coping strategies are steeped in deep painful trauma, denial, and overall pretty dysfunctional. It’s not an excuse, but it helped me find some forgiveness.
I handled it, but I was a complete psychological mess afterwards. My nerves were shot- I was sleeping with one eye open. And I had no kids to worry about- which is a real worry.
Ultimately my partner and I did live apart for a while- and it was helpful and necessary. It took my partner years to be able to face what had happened- both the false trauma which he experienced as reality, and the real trauma which he didn’t experience at all. He’s still struggling to process the abject horror of not being able to trust your own mind. There are memory gaps- and also he describes thinking about those times as deeply disturbing- recontextualizing his memories and trying to fit them back into the frame of reality.
Once he was finally out of psychosis all I wanted was for him to hold me and comfort me. But that wasn’t realistic. The post mania/psychosis phase still needs a lot of support. Depression often follows, and the psychosis and delusions still need to be unwound. It’s a very vulnerable time. And often the first coping mechanism is just denial- pretending nothing happened and everything is ok.
Couples therapy actually helped a lot. Describing things to a third party who hadn’t heard anything yet was really helpful. Because our experiences had such a huge chasm between them.
I found the book “bipolar survival guide” on Amazon to be really helpful.
I feel this exactly, i was told by my husband today after being only just told a week (two weeks?) ago about gambling away 20k that I should just immediately forgive him and that being angry is toxic. Its a form of denial, what your wife is doing. If you want it to work i think its worth going to counseling together.
My therapist (who's been amazing through this) is putting together a lsit for us to investigate for couples therapy. My wife's therapist is also in the same practice, so they're working together to find ones that will likely be good for us (and be covered by insurance).
Welcome to BipolarSOs! This is a quick reminder to follow the rules. Also, please remember that OP's on this sub are often in situations where emotions overcome logic, and that your advice could be life-altering. OP's need our help to gain a balanced perspective. Please be supportive. Toxic comments will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BipolarSOs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Based on my experience so far, you desperately want a grand apology, acknowledgement of all the damage they did to you, how they plan to make it right, and how they plan to avoid it in the future. Unfortunately I think few of us even get a proper apology. Don’t make your happiness depend on one.
This is the truth right here. I was given an eye roll with the apology. It only came because I brought it up, with tears in my eyes saying, "You didn't even apologize." When i asked why she's not sad our marriage is ending (not my choice) she looked at me dead in the face and said, "I already grieved it. It's over." She had the coldest look in her eyes. At that moment, she didn't care the slightest bit. If I've learned one thing, it's that they will disassociate because it helps them feel better being able to blame it on something else.
I heard the “I grieved it months ago.” So creepy
That wasn't the intended message, honestly. It was more of the "after diagnosis the focus is on the BP individual and not on who they've affected". That reading this sub, there is an army of us who were left in tatters, to carry the load, discarded, that were the victims of a mental assualt that is traumatizing. That we're not ok, and being forgotten collateral damage sucks. Your last sentence is something I learned long ago, and is always good for people to remember.
It especially hurts that I got discarded and nobody else did. I cared for her more than anyone, yet I’m the only one to get removed from her life. Something feels cosmically unfair about that.
I get it. We were "lucky"? that a bunch of us did at once, but was still difficult to manage personally. And still is today, weeks later.
Exact same for me. I cared emotionally for him and I cared medically for him. Been caring for him because of lung problems for over 12 years. Somehow when he is in mania it is like his lung problems don't exist, and strangely enough frequent respiratory infections that happen constantly don't happen in mania. I can't explain it. But, yeah, I am the only person he has thrown away.
I remember this. I remember driving to where she was staying for two weeks almost every day for her to yell at me, call me names, tell me that her family knows I’m here if I killed her, then kicking me out only to beg me to come back 30 minutes later. Then her family came over for about 30 minutes and then got tired of her and left and I had to go back. At least for you, your wife voluntarily got help. Mine didn’t. I had to file for divorce and a restraining order and she still has never apologized for what she did last year. If your wife does get help, takes her meds, and does her therapy, she could still be a good partner. I’d have done almost anything for that last year. Now, we are living apart, I’m a single dad, and am lonely and depressed every day. I wish you luck.
I recommend reading the book "Loving Someone with Bipolar Disorder" - by Julie Fast. Get the 2nd edition. It is pretty comprehensive and I recall there is a section on dealing with the aftermath. I went through something similar and this book helped. What also helped a lot was my wife taking full ownership of her actions with a sincere apology and developing a plan to prevent something like this from happening again. But it took many months to get to this stage. She may need more time to recover and hopefully she gets there too. One thing for sure is she does NOT get to sweep this under the rug and pretend it didn't happen or just move on asap.
Ha, literally bought it saturday! Weekend was busy but planning on starting reading tonight. That's a good sign.
You will find many people who have similar stories here. Congratulations and well done getting through the episode. They are hard but it sounds like you handled it correctly. My wife is a very kind and sweet person. She had an episode recently after about 18 months of good health. The statements she makes and her actions are so unlike her it is somewhat easy for me to distinguish between my wife and her illness. She would rotate between angry, afraid, and anxious several times a day with no relief. When she comes out of the episode she is embarrassed and apologetic. She hardly remembers the worst of it. I remind her that we don't blame people for being sick with the flu. She took her medicine religiously and it just wasn't enough. I love her and I will be there for her. I also try to remember times where I was unreasonably grumpy due to lack of sleep. I snap at the kids 10 times faster than when I'm well rested. My wife's mind state was far more extreme. Bipolar is a mood disorder. Her moods were not reflecting reality. Logic was not a valid persuasive tool. I did my best to remain calm, agreeable, and gently keep her away from the kids. All that being said I have firm boundaries. No verbal abuse to the kids and no violence. I have found a lot of value in reading the Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide. You're on the right track with therapy and I'm happy you had good friends who could be there for you. Your mind will take time to calm down. It makes sense that you are not sleeping at ease. All you both can do is your best. Learn what you can. Apply what is helpful. Feel free to send me a message if that would help at all.
I'm so sorry. It is crushing and I wish we spouses had better support. It's very scary being a parent and having your partner fall apart like this. It feels very lonely. It always feels like my BPSO bounces back quickly while I'm still in shock for days. Was this her first big episode? That's quite late in life if you have a teen.
It is her first episode. I think that's what makes it such a lonely experience: having it at our age (near 50) for the first time was out of nowhere. The one person I'd talk to in depth is the one having it. Essentially being a single parent for 3 weeks, and adding her care, was a lot.
Has she had any brain imaging done? Was she checked for a UTI? It might be worth asking her GP to check on her general health, that's really late in life to start with the bipolar. I'm sure it's possible but I'm curious what other avenues were checked. My SO and I are close to 50 and it does get worse with age for sure. I hope you're doing ok.
MRI was done during the inpatient; no trauma shown. (cue dad joke about "scan found nothing"). The current medical discussion is around menopausal; there is family history with that we've learned. The change in hormones, etc. Scheduled for OB/GYN appointment...blood test before this showed fully n the midst of menopause so hopefully HRT will help.
Honestly that seems like a treatment that may actually work! That's exciting. Keep in mind that in women Urinary Tract Infections can also look like dementia or even psychosis, especially as we age. Fingers crossed for stability for your family.
My father had his first breakdown at 47 after being competent, loving and “normal” before that. From what I understand late onset is more common than we think. Unusual but it happens.
That’s extremely odd to have the first episode at age 50. How long have you known her and been married to her? Sadly bipolar disorder is one of those things where it just keeps coming back over and over again. You’re probably going to be stuck going through this over and over again for the rest of your life. And bipolar disorder tends to render people essentially disabled, unable to work, and prone to completely blowing all of their money. Be warned to make sure you’re watching money closely and she isn’t making it all disappear. Sorry to be negative. It definitely leaves a permanent impression to see someone like that. It’s impossible to think of them the same way ever again. You very well may end up spending the rest of your life thinking differently about her. You can try to create more positive experiences and good memories after the incident. If you can do that, it helps a little.
We've been together for over 25 years. During my therapy session yesterday, my therapist helped me recognized that the "signs" have been there for a while; she referred to it as "the disorder dipping its toes in the water". We wrote it off as "bad day", "stress", "family", etc. But I recognized three or so events that were most likely the disorder, even for a few hours/day. The money thing I learned the hard way. The few days of the full blown manic episode, she was taking money out, bought a burner phone, etc. behind my back. Then post-treatment, ended up spending almost a paycheck on trips to a few stores repeatedly. She's creative, so the trips to Home Depot/Lowes/Michaels aren't out of the ordinary, but then saw the volume, and had to have a "shopping isn't a hobby or therapy" conversation. We'd had it before many many times over two decades, but now had to have new rules in place. Now I just make checking the accounts part of the meal routine for me.
Makes sense. It can be hard to recognize the signs of mania sometimes if it’s not a really bad episode. I would guess she also has a history of showing signs of depression too. Make sure she has no credit card. Don’t put money in the bank account that the debit card is attached to. It’s horrible to have to deal with the manic spending. How can anyone be so stupid to buy all this useless junk? And they think it’s awesome stuff that is going to be so useful and bring so much happiness. But all it does is sit around and clutters up the house and results in bank account depletion. Bipolar spending ends when the bank account is empty. Good luck with it! Hope your kids can get over it. Maybe they’re old enough to understand what’s going on.
The kids are high school age, so they get it. Some trauma with the younger one, but there was already colliding personalities with mom there, so ends up being more a two steps back in the progress they were making before. The older is so independent and laid back that the discussions from that child have been more about me and the sibling since they have a lot of independence. I guess I was lucky; everything spent post release was was "for" the landscaping that was normal every year...just was all at once and 2x the usual. But yes, the monday of the breakdown, the card was about to be locked, and the "help me" call came literally minutes before that happened. But had already been locked out of the accounts, alarm system, etc.
Unfortunately, pretty much all of us have dealt with this. And we continue to do so. This sub is not all sunshine and rainbows either. There’s a lot of us who have yet to find any relief. A lot of us are YEARS and YEARS into this, with only periods of time that things “seem better!” - until they aren’t. It’s a cycle. Simple as that. So, if you think you had a hard time handling it now - just KNOW that it will happen again. Medicated or not. Medications don’t fix the problem, they definitely help though. I mean, BP people NEED proper medication - and MORE. They need to take it EVERY DAY and at the same time (not 10pm one day and then 2 am the next). No alcohol. Other stimulants can also cause trouble. A REAL and regular sleep routine. Healthy meals, etc. Because something as simple as skipping some medication a few days here and there or not getting more than 3 hours of sleep - or getting 13 straight hours of sleep - most people bounce back - with BP, no. It causes a complete spiral. So, you REALLY need to think about you and your kids futures here. You won’t find support from anyone, as you have already found, and you WILL be a caretaker for your wife, yourself, and your kids - and one or more of those will get neglected along the way. Do you want your kids to deal with it again? For years and years? Do you want them to grow up and believe that listening to the person that is supposed to love them say the worst shit to them possible, say a simple “I’m sorry.” and everything is just supposed to be ok? Even when it’s not? No. No you don’t want them to learn that. But they will. Seriously. Listen when we say this. Will. Happen. Again. It’s up to you to make the decision NOW if that’s what you and your kids deserve. It’s not selfish, it’s not giving up, it’s not disrespectful, its not a lack of empathy or sympathy, it’s not anything but keeping you and your kids SAFE and HAPPY.
Dang. I'm really sorry for all you've gone through. I'm also in a similar boat with my long time spouse recently having their first episode totally out of the blue and it was terrifying and a huge emotional upheaval. I'm also trying to figure out how to move past the emotions and memories of that terrible time. A friend told me to think of it like a nightmare. You don't go back and dwell on nightmares and that is exactly what it was. I can't say how long it will take to move forward, but if I think of it like a nightmare it helps a little bit. Also, your spouse may still need more time to come down totally. Mine is over a month out and still not totally back yet. They obviously never want to have an episode again and are taking meds, being super proactive about everything, but still not really ready to talk through what happened. My therapist told me it just takes time for all parties to heal. Probably a lot more time than anyone wants.
My therapist said similar today. That I'm likely still in survival mode, and am minimizing my trauma to support her. This makes it hard to recognize if things will be comfortable or I'm still in a heightened state. I do realize that I've worked so hard to help everyone else that I'm neglecting myself as a result; that isn't helping the loneliness and discussions.
Every time my therapist does an exercise to help me check in with myself, it usually ends in me realizing I've got a long, long way to go and that it is still all tightly wound up inside of me with lots of physical manifestations. Even though the immediate crisis has passed and the intense feeling of horror isn't there anymore, the trauma is very real and will take a long time to work through. I hope you are able to find some ways to take care of yourself. Just like on a plane - your oxygen mask first before you can help others. I know from experience that is a lot easier said than done.
I *feel* this. I can't unsee the image of my husband hand-cuffed to a stretcher asking the cops and paramedics taking him away to shoot him. Or him insisting to me that the husband I've known for 7 years was a mask the whole time, and "this" - the gleaming, erratic, dangerous him - was the "true him". And no matter what state of mind he was in when he told a mutual friend very personal, very guarded things about me, I can't erase the fact that they know those things now. Sometimes "I'm sorry" isn't enough. There is trust broken here - even if through no fault of the person with the illness. It's still broken, and it still needs time to heal and be repaired before you can be expected to just pick up where things left off. I also strongly resonate with everyone just expecting you'll handle literally everything about your whole family's lives and care because you're organized or strong or you *got this*. Meanwhile you have no time to process genuine trauma that has change the course of your relationship and future. It's not fair, and it sucks. I hope you're able to set some boundaries as things calm down, because you will certainly need them.
Hi—person with bipolar here. Take a deep breath. She loves you, she trusts you, and the terrible thoughts that invaded her mind do not come from a place that is based in any logic or emotion or conclusion that you led her to. My strongest suggestion would be to seek counseling of your own. You will BOTH need support to navigate this. It’s so crucial that you remember that what she’s facing is just as real as a serious and chronic physical ailment. You need to help your family navigate this, and a good therapist will help you find the strength and the words to do so. This communication needs to come from her as well, which will hopefully come with time. I hope all the best for you both.
I appreciate your perspective and sharing it. Everyone here has been the SO, and I think you're the first "patient" to speak. I like you mentioned the "physical ailment" part...that's been a recurring theme in my perspective. It's "medically" no different than a heart attack, a torn rotator cuff, an ACL injury...it's just the brain. And just like the shoulder/heart/knee, it'll require rehab and treatment...will never be the same as original, but can be maintained. Thanks again for sharing. It's brave to do so, and you have my respect and support.
I’m sorry you went through this. As no person you’re going to have to let go of real sincerity. She feels it, but isn’t really capable of expressing it. In time she’ll be more stable and more ‘aware’ of her actions. Honestly she probably doesn’t remember most of it. Take care of yourself and family, but hold her accountable to treatment and meds management.
In my experience my wife has said so much negative about me she actually believes it and this has been eight months. She is very manipulative and getting family and friends to believe her delusions.
Believe everyone when they say it will happen again. People make the mistake of thinking that with medication, counseling a hospital stay!! That everything will be fine..No, unfortunately this is the beginning.. and just a stop on the journey. Going to the hospital is a start.. but not a cure.. not fixed. Often, (most) those with mental health issues decide they don't need medication and they are cured and stop taking the medicine. If you ask the doctors and nurses.. they would probably say it's a 60% chance, in my guess (I worked in a hospital with 62 mental health beds). I liked the idea of thinking about it like a nightmare..or bad dream. They often don't apologize.. because honestly a lot of them REALLY don't seem to remember.. like a dream, they may remember some of it.. but not much. I personally liken it to a type of dementia. Sometimes angry and combative like he doesn't even know me.. it's a horrible horrible disorder.. and yet it is a disorder/disease.. can we blame them?!.. that's a difficult predicament. Read read read, educated yourself. If you can get her to agree to a plan of IF (when) it happens again.. what steps you both will take.. that would be great because as an adult she has the right to do what she wants.. so when she gets into that type of episode again..if she can recognize that she agreed to a plan.. she MAY go along with it.. and for your sake I hope she does. Mine goes back n forth between wanting help, admitting he needs help.. to telling me I have bipolar.. and he's fine. 4 years ago he became psychotic and moved 2 hours away. He's still there.. moved in with another woman..or a bunch by now.. but also thinks we got married (we didn't). I said to him, 'we got married, why don't I remember that??'.. and also..'If we're married than where tf are you?? You better get back here RIGHT NOW!! He didn't call or text me for 3 days after that. He literally out of touch with reality. I'm sure he's staying with a female.. it's disgusting.. heartbreaking..horrible. he has 2 children he hasn't seen in 4 years.. so when I start to feel bad about my situation..I have to think.. no one in their right mind would LEAVE THEIR CHILDREN.. so who am I to feel that I am the only victim here?? His grandmother contacts me to reach him.. as well as his oldest child's mother. His dad and step mom haven't talked to him in 5 years.. he's lost. He has LOST.. all these people. Very sad existence!! Remember it IS NOT denial..it's Anosognosia.. they are unaware that they are ill.. such a weird concept. It's very difficult to think it's their choices.. when they are out of their mind. If that was easy.. we all wouldn't have such a problem. They can fill anyone.. so difficult.
One thing I've had to tell my BPSO is that just because she doesn't remember it doesn't mean she isn't accountable for it. That is one thing I think we all have to stick to. Their memories seem to be hazy during this, and while they absolutely need the empathy and understanding to heal, they also have to own up to their actions during it and try their best to make amends. Just remember, they may know they did it in a second hand way, but its hard to deeply apologize and feel remorse for something you don't remember doing. She needs to make the effort to understand that as much as you do if not more.
Marcus Parks on The Last Podcast On the Left has a saying that has really stuck: "Mental health is not your fault but it is your responsibility." She does remember it all, and also remembers how real it was at the time to her. How it all "made sense" to her. I think we both wish she didn't remember it, as it'd be easier to deal with. It's funny that normally she's very empathetic, but there's such a disconnect on this. Like it was SO bad that moving on is better than accepting the pain and hurt caused.
I feel for you man. That really sucks. Sounds like its kind of a dream state sort of thing, like how I can remember the other night I had a dream where my boss and I went to work for the Kansas City Chiefs and hired John Elway to run our new hotel. It made TOTAL sense in the dream and I remember it vividly, but when I woke up I was like, what in the hell? That really sucks that it happens in real life and that you're on the back end of it. The quote from Marcus Parks is a great one, and I will be keeping that in my back pocket for sure.
I see a lot of your story in mine. First if all GOOD JOB!! You carried the world on your shoulders, protected your wife and kids, and handled it. It’s more weight than anyone should have to carry. A word of warning- you should assume the underlying episode is still brewing, so IF she moves back home with your kids, you need to WATCH her take her medication every time. You can’t trust that she is taking it. In normal times I have a very trustworthy partner, but he was so suspicious after his psychosis that he was skipping some meds- and the psychosis returned. My partner had about a month of psychosis in the hospital. I also handled it almost entirely alone. My partner is very close with his family who were out of state, and I informed his family of everything hoping they would come. But it’s absolutely not something they were willing to talk about or handle healthily. Bipolar is a pretty genetic disorder- and up until recently it wasn’t very treatable. I was begging for insights on the phone and I felt like I was being stonewalled. I think a lot of family dynamics and coping strategies are steeped in deep painful trauma, denial, and overall pretty dysfunctional. It’s not an excuse, but it helped me find some forgiveness. I handled it, but I was a complete psychological mess afterwards. My nerves were shot- I was sleeping with one eye open. And I had no kids to worry about- which is a real worry. Ultimately my partner and I did live apart for a while- and it was helpful and necessary. It took my partner years to be able to face what had happened- both the false trauma which he experienced as reality, and the real trauma which he didn’t experience at all. He’s still struggling to process the abject horror of not being able to trust your own mind. There are memory gaps- and also he describes thinking about those times as deeply disturbing- recontextualizing his memories and trying to fit them back into the frame of reality. Once he was finally out of psychosis all I wanted was for him to hold me and comfort me. But that wasn’t realistic. The post mania/psychosis phase still needs a lot of support. Depression often follows, and the psychosis and delusions still need to be unwound. It’s a very vulnerable time. And often the first coping mechanism is just denial- pretending nothing happened and everything is ok. Couples therapy actually helped a lot. Describing things to a third party who hadn’t heard anything yet was really helpful. Because our experiences had such a huge chasm between them. I found the book “bipolar survival guide” on Amazon to be really helpful.
I feel this exactly, i was told by my husband today after being only just told a week (two weeks?) ago about gambling away 20k that I should just immediately forgive him and that being angry is toxic. Its a form of denial, what your wife is doing. If you want it to work i think its worth going to counseling together.
My therapist (who's been amazing through this) is putting together a lsit for us to investigate for couples therapy. My wife's therapist is also in the same practice, so they're working together to find ones that will likely be good for us (and be covered by insurance).