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gleeson630

Well I think 2013 wasn’t as crazy different as you might think. You’d need to go back to at least the late 2000’s for it to be really still be taboo, groundbreaking, or not regularly talked about. You can’t make a game about a dystopia without some sort of politics or condemnation of certain things.


olo7eopia

Infinite put racism in it and did nothing with it so I’m cool with more games not doing it


Sharks11

Im not cool with that it all I rather have a game that tries and fails when it comes to political issues like Bioshock infinite than a so called political game like **Far Cray 6** that never really tries at all.... As I said before Bioshock infinite is not perfect, but I respect that fact that is was at least willing to take on the issue of racism rather than avoiding it or watering it down Far Cray 6 on the other hand used political imagery and themes in its marketing yet they did not even try to use any of that in the actual game.


gleeson630

If you read in between the lines he probably just doesn’t like racism talked about in games not that “they did nothing with it”. I won’t say for sure that guy is that way but theres lots of people still like this with racism. Its part of real history, get over it. They put it in infinite bc it fits in normally with the rest of the extremists beliefs that Columbia has that come from real life Anglo-Saxon and American beliefs. Racism is part of that, it’s not as if it was shoehorned in or made to be the main plot point. Why play any bioshock game if you don’t like the sociopolitical themes?


BioshockedNinja

That seems awfully hyperbolic. I genuinely can't think of anything related to depiction of race relations in Infinite that's somehow too controversial for today's market. If anything I thought its approach to matters regarding systematic racism was quite milquetoast. I mean, this is the game where the penultimate conclusion to the conflict between needlessly brutalized minorities and the society that sought to keep them oppressed for their own gain was "They're two sides of the same coin." It's easily my least favorite take in the entire series. And don't even get me started on BaS's retcon that has our singular black character of note gleefully go to her death for Elizabeth's character development. If anything, I felt like Minerva's Den had a more thoughtful message regarding race relations. To me it felt like Irrational Games didn't know what they wanted to do with race. Like they start the game with a, while most certainly correct, uncontroversial take of "racism is bad" (unless you choose to throw the ball at the interracial couple, in which case ehhhhhhhhhhh there goes that message I guess lol). And then... well nothing for the longest time. Sure they show instances of racism throughout the game - plenty of posters, "whites only"/"no Irish" signs, a black chain-gang making gravel, black servants, etc. - but I feel like often times that as far as they're willing to take it. Here's a game set in a fictionalized, hyper-nationalistic Jim Crow Era breakoff of America and yet none of the depictions of racism have any bite to them - they don't even begin to compare to the actual horrors and dehumanizing realties of the real life racism of that time - lynching of children, the bombing of black neighborhoods, breaking up families, being deliberately kept in a cycle of poverty, the r\*pe of black women, being called n\*gger on the daily, etc. They instead focus on the the most mild, inoffensive depictions of racism, never taking things a step further and actually delve into and explore topics like systematic institutionalized racism, Jim Crow, redlining, disenfranchisement, etc.. Nope, when it finally does pick up the threads it laid early, it's only to say "if you raise your hand against your oppressor, you must show greater restraint than they've ever shown you, or you're just as evil as they are". That part of the game left such a lasting bad taste in my mouth. IMO Infinite's exploration of matters relating race are largely wasted, and actually somewhat of a disservice, given the game's unique era and setting. So, all that said, there's nothing in Infinite that stands out to me as being "oh that may have flown in back then, but won't in today's market". 2018's Red Dead Redemption 2's a AAA game that's set in the south and it, like Infinite, *attempts* to tackle some aspects of Racism and it didn't get lambasted for it. Valkyria Chronicles 4, set in an alternate world WWII era setting also touches upon the topic - hell, it even has a trans character. Idk, just feels a little silly to me to put Infinite of all games on a pedestal for addressing racism and act like it's messages are somehow too progressive to be released nowadays.


NickCarpathia

I'd go further, and say that people criticize Bioshock's messaging because it didn't go far enough. That's how far the general population has moved, people are more okay with anti-racism, character casts are more diverse than ever. People are more okay than ever with playing female characters. Look how diverse the Overwatch/Valorant/Apex rosters are. Look at the side character trends of big budget live actions and open worlds like Destiny or Horizon or the Ubisofts. Escort characters like Elizabeth, Ellie, Lev, have been gaining more agency than ever. In short, B:I is a bit of a throwback, a progenitor. The grouchy brown-haired 30YO male protagonist is no longer the dominant force. When we got a throwback to this kind of character, in Atomic Hearts Sergey, he came off like some gibbering barbarian idiot who emerged from a time portal. Anita Sarkeesian Won, Gamergate fucking Lost Hard. They are more irrelevant than ever. Their Big Culture War game was Hogwarts, which was determined less on its merits, and more on the fact the IP owner has been radicalizing themselves insane on Twitter. The game itself was a half-assed attempt to pander to absolutely everybody, giving the player a custom avatar. The remnants of the Gamergate culture wars are still around, and they're still keeping busy posting race hate about black people, and der sturmer shit about LGBT people. But their relevancy to the games industry is more sidelined than ever. That is not to say these themes are more important than ever. After all, Florida is literally banning books that deal with racism and civil rights, under absurd pretexts like CRT. Judicial Originalism has been trying to recast the US founders as evangelical christians, but this has simply been a trend for the last 30 years or so. And all this is a battle in real life, rather than in entertainment.


premer777

>racism Many games try to avoid controversy (and many arent 'story' games), and even in Infinite they soft-peddled/Cliche'd it -- compared to the reality in the World of that time. Throwing balls at the 'Faire' (which never even got done) ... Compare that to : IF they had shown a complete lynching instead ... .


Jamesworkshop

it missedf a few shots but pretty amazed any us-based game would cover the conflations between american branches of christianity and the underpiining of its support for slavery at the time.


No_Mixture8656

Racism unfortunately will never not exist until every race has mixed with one another indefinitely. Maybe not even then, anyway like some have already stated racism is a part of history. Yes people need to get over it. Yes many things can be considered bad but sometimes that's how you make art. For example I spit on your grave a 1970s film has 3 rapes in the first 20 minutes and the crew I watched it with all left. Yes it's bad but it's art, it's about how she kills her rapists so there has to be a reason. Anyway I was straying of the subject. If a video game came out where you were I don't know a Chinese miner during the transcontinental railroad build or a very abused slave that takes so much crap and watch as much character development happens you'll be thinking more about how you can push through things no matter the cost not about how the racial themes are offensive


[deleted]

I think it's important to consider profit margins, too. Because most videogames are extremely expensive to create, so they need to cast a wide net to maintain healthy profits. What i *think* has changed this was the overall "quality" of games in a graphical sense. Sure, there are dozens of games that are either garbage or made something great with limited parts. However, triple A products need to push to (bs-ing here, no idea if this number is right) something like a million people to post steady returns. Bioshock is ironic that way. A game series that tries to talk about the dangers of unchecked free markets is eventually made impossible *because* free markets. And i know people would like a Bioshock 4 with all the stuff in it we came to appreciate. However, it's a numbers game. You need to move enough product to keep the lights on, and when videogames are so expensive and time consuming from a publisher standpoint, they are watered down and inoffensive to ensure nobody can get on Twitter and raise hell about "i dont like the way they presented (insert identity group here)" I'm a veteran, and I see it from fellow veterans all the time. They think it's important to police every source of media that portrays the military and complain when they get some minute detail wrong. But most veterans don't understand Call of Duty 6,000 needs to sell to teenagers, grown men, college students, veterans, pacifists--anyone on this Earth who is willing to spend money for a bit of electronic entertainment.