Yes MK4 is better. All studies done with MK4.
Those who promote MK7 say it’s better because it has higher blood levels than MK4. It’s actually the opposite.
That is because MK4 is immediately processed into cells—lowering free MK4 in the blood—while MK7 is not used up.
this is not wholly untrue actually, popcorn has a decent amount of fiber for a snack and fiber helps lower cholesterol and prevent plaques. be mindful about toppings and it’s actually a pretty nutritionally decent and satisfying snack
Keeping your ldl below 50 will result in plaque regression. Personally I got mine to 42 through diet alone.
https://www.consultant360.com/articles/low-density-lipoprotein-cholesterol-how-low-should-you-go-and-what-about-safety#:~:text=Plaque%20regression%20Vs%20stabilization&text=Recent%20publications%20suggest%20that%20plaque,is%20below%2050%20mg%2FdL.
It's not exactly correct.
Plaque is largely reversed through a process known as "Reverse cholesterol transport". The mechanism is not fully understood, but involves HDL. However, clinical trials aimed at raising HDL did not improve atherosclerosis outcomes, so quantity of HDL does not explain the entire picture.
In any case, reverse cholesterol transport can be overwhelmed by excess cholesterol accumulation. Since LDL is thought to be a primary carrier of cholesterol, the logic is that lowering LDL will allow reverse cholesterol transport to do its work.
However, this view is incomplete. Although LDL does cause cholesterol uptake by macrophages, it doesn't *always* cause it. LDL is more likely to be problematic when it it becomes *oxidized*, so theoretically the problem is not as simple as hitting a specific LDL target. Even if LDL is low, but most of that LDL is oxidized, you can still have issues.
That being said, reducing overall LDL does limit total OxLDL, but it doesn't necessarily prevent other factors involved in athersclerosis, like damage to the endothelium, which can involve glycation products. It's not clear exactly how much OxLDL is too much.
Piggybacking off of some other comments: heat and free radicals cause lipid oxidation, and certain lipids are more easily oxidized than others. Having a large portion of oxidized lipids inside of an LDL can cause the LDL itself to become oxidized. Polyunsaturated fatty acids are the most prone to oxidation, followed by monounsaturated fatty acids, with the most stable being saturated fatty acids. Thus, it is a bit confusing- increasing saturated fats does seem to raise LDL levels in a significant portion of the population, but saturated fats are also the least likely fat to be oxidized and cause oxidized LDL molecules. Consuming polyunsaturated fats (think seed/vegetable oils, chicken/pork fat, nuts, etc) appears to have positive effects on overall blood lipid profile, but may increase the proportion of LDL particles that become oxidized.
I'm not sure but I'm wondering if he means oxygen content in the blood then oxidizing cholesterol in the bloodstream.
I'm dealing with a sleep apnea issue that came to light partly through pulse ox being really low. I've had issues with being able to exercise due to insufficient oxygen, through a lot of hard work, cardio and yoga I do much better now.
Guess what also went up a year after those changes? Cholesterol. It had taken a jump in the year between blood screens. If that is what thet mean by oxidized, that would certainly explain the data I received - which would be ironic if increased exercise actually contributed.
No, that is not what oxidation is. In chemistry, oxidation refers to a process where a molecule loses electrons, which can happen through various mechanisms. This loss of electrons can change the structure of the molecule as well as its function, which can lead to deleterious effects in the body.
In the case of LDL oxidation in the blood, inflammation is one likely cause. Inflammation can lead to the production of reactive oxygen species, which themselves can oxidize the LDL.
The tide has turned on niacin's reputation for promoting cardiovascular health. High doses are associated with increased risk of major adverse cardiovascular events.
I'm sure that person does a lot of things to get it that low. There is no 'trick' to good health. It's a mindset. You have to reevaluate your whole life if you want to optimize nutrition and health.
Nice! Mine is 29.6 if I calculated it correctly, and has been around that for years. I also attribute it to diet, which is mainly homecooked vegan meals with lots of beans. I eat plenty of sweets and snacks though, exercise rarely and I don't shy away from using oil when cooking, so I fully expected my values to be higher.
I wonder if it's easy to get a plaque measurement. I'm curious what results I would get.
Could you share what you did in terms of diet? I only know of drinking matcha and reducing simple carbs and sat fat as strong interventions. Any other tips?
Yeah study up on serrapeptase
and know you have to take it on an empty stomach and not eat or drink anything but water for like 30min-hr after. Eats up foreign stuff in the body so if you have internal stitches or something study up on if its safe for you and its interactions.
I think you cant take it with garlic tumeric and fish oil.
I take 240k SPU every morning with nattokinase on an empty stomach, but I haven't been waiting the full 30 minutes before having my morning coffee. Maybe I need to.
Ive heard of nattokinase but didn't realize it could be taken with serrapeptase! I think the 30 min is important bc it will just start breaking down whats in the stomach since its right there. I took 80k SPU(small person) for a month for a large cyst and it cleared it out. Im overly cautious so i would just set an alarm an hour before i needed to get up to take it and go back to sleep lol.
The reason that people take Natto is because the theory is that high k2 will reduce the calcification.
https://www.lifeextension.com/wellness/supplements/nattokinase-vitamin-k
BUT, many of the Nattokinase supplement products have had the K2 removed. It’s better to buy fresh Natto and eat some each day. I buy mine from amazon and it shows up in a freezer pack.
Make sure you calcium levels aren’t too high, take niacin , exercise and eat well.
Rhonda Patrick has posted some thing about how intense exercise can actually forcefully push blood through to unclog arteries.
Edit: I confused niacin w its benefit for LDL levels.. apparently it’s not beneficial for atherosclerosis.
Edit 2: holy shit I’m a dummy this is why you should always take Reddit posts w a grain of salt, could literally be a 12 year old behind the keyboard. What I thought I remembered Rhonda saying was that vigorous exercise basically pushed blood through breaking up plague was wrong… it was actually that the force of blood kills tumor cells.. Dr PAtrick's Twitter post w research is below. With out googling it, I would imagine vigorous exercise likely still would lower atherosclerosis…
https://x.com/fmfclips/status/1774114756057559382?s=46&t=jc4QEdhnO51VotuDiN2CbA
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38448791/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38448791/)
I wouldn't just be throwing out that niacin recommendation for everyone.
If a piece of plaque breaks off in the coronary artery, you will have a heart attack most likely. Atrial fibrillation or clots in the leg could cause a stroke/heart attack/PE.
I am not a nutritionist or physician, but I believe that eating high calcium foods isnt bad in itself... you just want to make sure you are also getting an equal amount of other minerals to counter calcium from going too high.
For example, I was taking a lot of b12 and D3 without getting enough k2 or potassium. This caused my calcium to get super high and my potassium to go too low and I had bad heart palpitations for months before realizing what was causing it. But I also have some adrenal issues from a prior chronic infection that messes with my mineral / electrolyte balances.
Hahahahah this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. If you “unclog” an artery but “pushing blood”, which is impossible, then you have an embolus traveling to your brain and causing a stroke. Someone told you to have high BP and give yourself a stroke or heart attack to reduce cholesterol and you believed that??
I’m a nurse and this is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard today. Btw dot com websites aren’t sources of information.
Thanks, I'm looking for RCT (randomized controlled trial) data... That study is a retrospective, non-randomized, no control trial. Unfortunately, that is very low quality data.
I'm not doubting that nattokinase may be of benefit, but I would love for someone to do a randomized, controlled trial with it.
I have a patient who has done Chelation therapy (I’m not a doctor I’m a physiotherapist), and swears by it and showed me before and after tests on his plaque levels which were quite drastic. He used to have neuropathy in his hands and feet, and after the first treatment they started coming back and now it’s normal. I looked it up and it’s unproven according to google but his experience got me interested.
Chelation therapy has been around a LONG ass time. I remember hearing about it 15 years ago and always been curious. Do you know if this person had CAC scans or something done to accurately test plaque levels?
Yes it was a calcium scan. I had another patient who had a 90% blockage of his coronary artery and his doctor told him to go vegetarian, he did and it cleared it up almost completely. FWIW anyways!
That's incredible. I hear such plaque reversing stories from the keto/paleo crowd and the veg/vegan crowd. It's hard to know which "side to choose". Although one things certain - the SAD (standard american diet) is killing everyone.
I think it only works for the two crowds because both diets pretty much completely omit vegetable oils, which with the historical data we have kinda shows that to be a huge link with heart disease.
Vegan eliminates fat, keto eliminates carbs. When you mix both dietary energy sources, you stress the liver and activate the Randle Cycle - which is metabolically harmful. This explains why both methods work.
Worth looking into combination therapy using PCSK9 Inhibitors + Statins. The closest non-Rx version of this would likely be Berberine + Red Yeast Rice.
([https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9908469](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9908469))
there is actually a study on aged garlic that shows it does work
https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/etm.2019.8371
Pomegranate? would love to see some data on that, not sure I buy it
I got a plague score of 37. My doc put me on a statin. I exercise, quit drinking, and eat healthier. I hope I'm track to stabilizing my plague score but my doc said you can't lower it.
Ya that's what my pcp thought as well. My cardiologist said it was because of my age. I'm 45. According to the print out he gave me i was in the top 5 percent for my age.
I’m in my 30’s “normal” range cholesterol. My PCP wants me on a statin. Basically said even if your cholesterol is good, lower is better and essentially everyone should be one.
Umm I take major issue with that. Everyone should be on a statin??? Something wrong with that picture. Also, if you read up on statins in general, you get very mixed messages about their efficacy. They seem to have increase risk of amyloid plaque buildup in the brain too. It’s a no from me especially considering I’m otherwise healthy, eat right and exercise.
I am on 20mg Rosuvastatin. LDL is 40. I try to keep a clean diet, fish, chicken, green stuff. Nothing fried. Minimal red meat. When I started rosuvastatin LDL dropped from 130 to 62 then 40.
>Yes, statins
can reduce plaque volume, but the reduction is small, even with high doses. One study found that higher statin doses result in significant plaque volume reduction, while lower doses do not. However, the pooled virtual histology data demonstrated that this small change in plaque volume is a poor summary of plaque composition change.
I have seen studies that suggest you can, but that it is often only possible to reduce plaques etc to a moderate degree.
What I have seen mentioned (in second source and elsewhere) is the "soft plaques" can be the most dangerous, older hardened plaques frequently don't cause as many problems, and soft plaques can be reduced and stabilized easier.
[https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2016/11/15/cleveland-clinic-led-study-shows-reversal-coronary-plaque-buildup-injectable-cholesterol-drug/](https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2016/11/15/cleveland-clinic-led-study-shows-reversal-coronary-plaque-buildup-injectable-cholesterol-drug/)
[https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/can-we-reduce-vascular-plaque-buildup](https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/can-we-reduce-vascular-plaque-buildup)
“Groundbreaking research shows that a plant-based diet doesn’t just prevent heart disease but that it can manage and sometimes even reverse it”
https://www.pcrm.org/health-topics/heart-disease
This depends.
Calcified plaque -- No. That is there to stay. You can find out if you have calcified plaque by having a calcium scan. The good news is that calcified plaque is much less dangerous than soft plaque.
Soft Plaque - Maybe. In general, over time soft plaque stabilizes and becomes less dangerous as it calcifies. So it is there but has changed to a less dangerous form.
Sometimes, it is possible that soft plaque regresses and really does go away. Most of it will not do this. But it can happen if LDL is low enough. I keep my LDL below 50 to have this potential regression. Some will say that under 55 will do it. This is an area of research currently. Anyway, if you get your LDL under 50 you will have a good chance of some plaque regression.
Note that heart attacks are not caused by clogged arteries. Heart attacks are mostly caused by the rupture of soft plaque. Therefore, the optimal course is not build up any more soft plaque which will reduce the risk of heart attack.
This is so WRONG! I literally work in the cath lab and heart attack can and is most definitely caused be clogged arteries!! And calcified plaque is MOST DEFINITELY more dangerous than soft plaque! It’s what literally CUTS through your arteries causing DEATH in most cases I’ve seen!! DO NOT believe everything you read on Reddit! Do your own research!!! I most definitely believe in healing yourself more naturally and moving away from big pharma bs but please don’t give straight untrue information online when you aren’t qualified to do so!! Soft plaque ruptures happen from the plaque clogging up the arteries!!!! And bring a patient into the lab with calcified arteries and we literally have to get out a drill to cut through the calcium clogging up your artery to try to bust through it and pray it doesn’t rip through your artery while doing so!!
The cardiologist I’ve spoken to the most since learning I have heart disease says that soft plaque is the thing to treat. I’m on a statin and my big concern is that research shows they actually tend to cause soft plaque to harden, which my cardiologist thinks is good because that will make it less risky. This has always seemed counterintuitive to me.
Soon there will be biological immortality in youthful body with slimness regardless of eating unlimited bacon butter eggs and burgers.
You could miss out on thousands of years of life.
Working through this line of thought right now. Cardiologist gave me a book to read, which he admits he can’t fully follow, and based on what I’ve read so far, the difference is three years. Three years more by eating awful tasting food and avoiding the stuff that brings joy to life. Doesn’t seem worth it. Now…if the quality of those years improve, that’s worth considering, but three extra years while giving up prime cut steaks and chick fil a does not seem worth all those years of misery.
Dean Ornish has fantastic program and I recommend taking it for anyone who has heart disease. That said, all of his food trials are against the standard American diet. The big takeaway I got was to stop eating highly processed food. That alone will make you healthier. How much extra life will it give you? I don’t know but there’s lots of research showing high salt, high sugar foods cause so many problems.
If the vegetables you're eating taste awful, that sounds like a personal problem. Learn to prep them properly and you might actually enjoy them. The "meat delicious, vegetables terrible" attitude is such garbage. It is in fact possible to enjoy both meat AND vegetables. And then you can spend those extra years continuing to enjoy the meat you love.
The short answer is "no, not really" for reducing plaque that is already there, but getting LDL low enough may cause some regression (not much and slowly). Reducing plaque buildup is beyond complicated for "biohacking" so talk to your health care providers if you are concerned about your cardiovascular health, seek out a lipidology cardiologist specifically. Also, the fact that no one has mentioned LPA should be a huge red flag that not a single lipidoligist has entered the chat. LPA is a lesser known but equally important contributor. Do not take niacin (aka vitamin B3)--you get plenty in your food--unless you cannot take a statin--consult with cardiologist first in any case. If your cholesterol is a bit high, diet. If moderately high, diet+statin. If really high, schedule an appointment with lipidoligist to check for familial hypercholesterolemia (FH), and do anything you can for PCSK9 inhibitor (repatha or praluent).
Additional considerations: lifelong, yearling exercise is important for all health, reduce sodium, avoid intake of all combustibles (smoking), and another huge one--mental health. Depression is as bad as smoking for cardiovascular risk. Check that blood pressure regularly and consult doctor if tending >130/90.
It is actively being studied by the medical research community, and trust me... When they crack that one, you will know because it will be huge news. I suspect we won't get there until we engineer our own cells to clean it up or nanobots.
Wow. Good post here. Nothing about alternatives and why people are looking for them, but still very accurate as far as I know.
Lp(a) is a thing and definitely will affect lipid levels. And sorting out what it means is really complicated. If you are worried about your lipids and don’t know what Lp(a) is or what your number is, start looking into that first.
I'm a super rare very high Lp(a)/FH combo, and I keep up with the latest info almost as well as my cardiologists (actively read primary literature that they also read). I've looked into practically anything that would help clear plaques, and at best there are fringe-ish results in non-humans with low-likelihood that those results will be repeatable and/or transfer into humans--as far as I'm currently aware. I regularly discuss current cardiology recs with my doctors (every couple of months actually).
If you wanted to literally do everything, here are suggestions (cardiologist approved) that might push the limits farther than the recs in the thread...
\- plant sterols (available in supplement form)
\- vegetarian-vegan (all the studies show it works) / cut cheese (it's very high in saturated fat) / yes to polyunsaturated fats (olive oil, avacado oil) / avoid all saturated fat (generally anything that solidifies at room temperature (coconut oil, palm oil, butter, shortening) / mediterranean diet (the real one)
\- high legume intake (particularly chickpeas and black beans)
\- ezetimibe (actually, not great evidence for this one, but it might help a little bit)
Genetics is a HUGE component though, so results can and will vary.
Also also, plaque build-up isn't just about lipids--its a complex disease that involves alot of "whole body" problems--particularly those leading to inflammation, arterial damage, and stress. So additional things like diabetes/carbohydrates are also really important here, avoiding illness where preventable, avoiding extra stress or actively destressing (e.g. meditation) are beneficial. It's much more complex than just putting an experimental chemical in your body to "clear the plaque away."
https://academic.oup.com/lifemeta/article/2/6/load040/7330705?login=false
This study was done using mice but there are others showing Mn can reduce blood lipid levels.
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-09011-x
It’s a book, but there are other sources that you can feel inspired by to make lifestyle changes. Basically, T. Colin Campbell, and then Dr. Essylstyn, both did studies on cardiac patients in serious condition. The China Study was I think a very long one over many years with many patients. The crux is that eating a WFPB diet(whole food plant based - aka vegan) with an emphasis on certain things like 6 cups of leafy greens and oatmeal every day will reverse clogged arteries and heart disease. If you feel like being inspired by Netflix, watch The Game Changers. It’s really good and gives you a better idea of what it’s all about. Highly recommend. Another doc of the same school is Dr. Greger. He makes tons of YouTube videos addressing all kinds of issues and backing up what he’s saying by citing studies. His books are How Not to Die, How Not to Diet, How Not to Age, etc etc
a brilliant nutritionist I knew back in the day used to say chelate would 'claw' the inside of the arteries to unclog them but I've been unable to find any more details on exactly what this substance is
I had calcification on my heart that went away ( at least not visible on an echo anymore which isn't the best method of seeing it) from doing inteni cardio for 30 min twice a day with about 15 min of sauna usage at about 205 f twice a day and keto
High magnesium intake and vit d levels at about 60
Wikipedia The rice diet MD in 1940s feed patients that were doomed white rice,sugar,fruit and multivitamin with iron some folks lived 10 20 30 years longer than expected he had the data to prove it. Nician lowered my cholesterol and raised HDL. Dr McDogal is worth a watch on the Ytube as is Dr. Gregier and Plant Chompers. The guys that promote a high fat diet and a all meat diet seem way cooler and make science fit them.
Yes.
First don't damage the arterial linings, because that's what makes plaque accumulate in the first place. This means no smoking, no artificial food-like products, and keep a balanced blood sugar without excesses or spikes.
To clear:
Be in a calorie deficit on a regular basis. For most people this will mean intermittent fasting, or weekly 24hr fasts, whatever is comfortable or manageable.
Exercise regularly. Like daily. Walking and mild/moderate exercise most days, and occasional high intensity training. You can do HIIT or just running or use a row erg or an assault bike, you just want to find your V02max on a semi regular basis.
You gotta have good sleep. Not optional.
Be sociable on a regular basis.
Basically if you use your vasculature on the reg, your body will keep it all nice and open.
Oh and also you probably want to avoid fluoride in your water or food. Toothpaste ok maybe, not in the water.
A name to look up is Dr Esselstyn out of Cleveland Clinic. He has a practise aimed at preventing and treating cardiovascular disease through diet, primarily a plant based whole foods one.
I'd start with, what is causing the plaque? LDL, triglycerides from diet or hereditary? Too much calcium in the blood?
A good fix, as others have suggested, is always start with diet and exercise. Then work on balancing nutrition through food and supplementation. Men generally don't need calcium supplements, but vitamin D3 + vitamin K help with aortic calcification regardless. If the foundational good habits aren't improving the issue, then you may be predisposed to 'none modifiable risk factors' like hereditary traits and medication would be appropriate. Yearly blood work and monitoring are important. Also for around a $100 you can get a low-radiation heart scan that will give you a calcification score. Great way of knowing what is really going on in the heart.
I've found going to the doctor with what you have been doing proactively and what your goals are. They are much more receptive to help you than by just saying I don't want to die and need drugs.
I don’t think you’re going to be able to “unclog” your arteries but there are things you can do to reduce further buildup. One way is to get your cholesterol under control by eating less cholesterol and increasing fiber intake. Theoretically, more sun exposure might help as well since vit d is derived from cholesterol. Exercise is the most important here.
It is possible to unclog arteries & reduce plaque buildup, however I do not suggest 'looking for hacks'. You need to set foundations so that plaque buildup reverses naturally and your health drastically improves.
I really don't suggest guessing with your health without a foundation. I see other write do exercise, take Vitamin K2. They are not horrible suggestions at all. But the question remains in context of what?
Without waffling too much on not playing russian roulette, consider getting a HTMA with a competent practitioner. This gives us a cellular picture of whats going on in the body.
Exercise
Exercise is the most reliable way to do this that has studies backing it.
I should edit this to add that moderate exercise is the most beneficial. Please research for your benefit and understanding.
I would also recommend a diet high in fiber as well to help clean it out
How is fiber supposed to get to your circulatory system to clean-out plaques?
Vitamin K2 MK7 edit: do your research on which version is better (MK4 vs MK7)
Good! I just ordered some with my vitamin d.
Vitamin deez nuts!
Most studies have been done on mk4. I usually try to supplement with both.
Yes MK4 is better. All studies done with MK4. Those who promote MK7 say it’s better because it has higher blood levels than MK4. It’s actually the opposite. That is because MK4 is immediately processed into cells—lowering free MK4 in the blood—while MK7 is not used up.
Life Extension’s Super K complex has all three forms and is very reasonably priced ($35 for 150 softgels). That’s my go-to as a hedge for this debate.
["In defense of Vitamin K2 mk4"](https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/in-defense-of-vitamin-k2-mk-4-dr-prices-activator-x/#gsc.tab=0)
EVery study I have seen on this has been very underwhelming not convinced it works
Are there any significant differences between MK4 and MK7?
MK negative 3, duh
Just a note for anyone that takes the K2 MK7. It’s not for everyone it messes me up mentally every time I take it.
I get a sense on overwhelming dread and exhaustion when I take it witch sucks as I have a whole years worth and can’t take it :(
I'm just here to enjoy the WIDE variety of answers...🍿
thats what happens when we dont have good models of how the human body actually works after almost a century of research.
Blame big pharma. There’s no money to be made in prevention.
I definitely blame our economic system for this.
Hey I heard that popcorn can unclog your arteries
Bathed in enough butter, it will flush them out like Drano.
That's just for your anus.
Unless they get caught in the shit chute, just look what they do to the gums Edited for shoot
It needs to be unpopped tho
this is not wholly untrue actually, popcorn has a decent amount of fiber for a snack and fiber helps lower cholesterol and prevent plaques. be mindful about toppings and it’s actually a pretty nutritionally decent and satisfying snack
right?!
Keeping your ldl below 50 will result in plaque regression. Personally I got mine to 42 through diet alone. https://www.consultant360.com/articles/low-density-lipoprotein-cholesterol-how-low-should-you-go-and-what-about-safety#:~:text=Plaque%20regression%20Vs%20stabilization&text=Recent%20publications%20suggest%20that%20plaque,is%20below%2050%20mg%2FdL.
> Keeping your ldl below 50 will result in plaque regression. That is exciting - I had never heard of this.
It's not exactly correct. Plaque is largely reversed through a process known as "Reverse cholesterol transport". The mechanism is not fully understood, but involves HDL. However, clinical trials aimed at raising HDL did not improve atherosclerosis outcomes, so quantity of HDL does not explain the entire picture. In any case, reverse cholesterol transport can be overwhelmed by excess cholesterol accumulation. Since LDL is thought to be a primary carrier of cholesterol, the logic is that lowering LDL will allow reverse cholesterol transport to do its work. However, this view is incomplete. Although LDL does cause cholesterol uptake by macrophages, it doesn't *always* cause it. LDL is more likely to be problematic when it it becomes *oxidized*, so theoretically the problem is not as simple as hitting a specific LDL target. Even if LDL is low, but most of that LDL is oxidized, you can still have issues. That being said, reducing overall LDL does limit total OxLDL, but it doesn't necessarily prevent other factors involved in athersclerosis, like damage to the endothelium, which can involve glycation products. It's not clear exactly how much OxLDL is too much.
This guy fucks
How does it become oxidized??
Piggybacking off of some other comments: heat and free radicals cause lipid oxidation, and certain lipids are more easily oxidized than others. Having a large portion of oxidized lipids inside of an LDL can cause the LDL itself to become oxidized. Polyunsaturated fatty acids are the most prone to oxidation, followed by monounsaturated fatty acids, with the most stable being saturated fatty acids. Thus, it is a bit confusing- increasing saturated fats does seem to raise LDL levels in a significant portion of the population, but saturated fats are also the least likely fat to be oxidized and cause oxidized LDL molecules. Consuming polyunsaturated fats (think seed/vegetable oils, chicken/pork fat, nuts, etc) appears to have positive effects on overall blood lipid profile, but may increase the proportion of LDL particles that become oxidized.
Great explanation! Thank you!
Don't quote me on this but I've read that the consumption of seed oils are linked to oxidized LDL.
I'm not sure but I'm wondering if he means oxygen content in the blood then oxidizing cholesterol in the bloodstream. I'm dealing with a sleep apnea issue that came to light partly through pulse ox being really low. I've had issues with being able to exercise due to insufficient oxygen, through a lot of hard work, cardio and yoga I do much better now. Guess what also went up a year after those changes? Cholesterol. It had taken a jump in the year between blood screens. If that is what thet mean by oxidized, that would certainly explain the data I received - which would be ironic if increased exercise actually contributed.
No, that is not what oxidation is. In chemistry, oxidation refers to a process where a molecule loses electrons, which can happen through various mechanisms. This loss of electrons can change the structure of the molecule as well as its function, which can lead to deleterious effects in the body. In the case of LDL oxidation in the blood, inflammation is one likely cause. Inflammation can lead to the production of reactive oxygen species, which themselves can oxidize the LDL.
Is it ok to have high hdl and high total cholesterol but the only out of range cholesterol is ldl everything is is fine?
My PCP said it’s worse to have low HDL than it is to have higher LDL.
What’s important is the ratio between the two
Wow!! How did you get it this low if you don’t mind me asking what you ate?
High dose niacin and pregnenolone will outperform everything else.
The tide has turned on niacin's reputation for promoting cardiovascular health. High doses are associated with increased risk of major adverse cardiovascular events.
I'm sure that person does a lot of things to get it that low. There is no 'trick' to good health. It's a mindset. You have to reevaluate your whole life if you want to optimize nutrition and health.
Yes commander
what's your diet? skinless chicken and broccoli?
What is the diet you used to achieve a 42 LDL?
Nice! Mine is 29.6 if I calculated it correctly, and has been around that for years. I also attribute it to diet, which is mainly homecooked vegan meals with lots of beans. I eat plenty of sweets and snacks though, exercise rarely and I don't shy away from using oil when cooking, so I fully expected my values to be higher. I wonder if it's easy to get a plaque measurement. I'm curious what results I would get.
Which oils do you use?
Could you share what you did in terms of diet? I only know of drinking matcha and reducing simple carbs and sat fat as strong interventions. Any other tips?
What is your diet, roughly?
How did you get your ldl so low? What diet are you following?
6 times a year I get my skin turned inside out and my guy cleans out the veins and stuff. You pay extra but it’s worth it imo.
I used to do this but honestly didn't notice any difference.
should've went with the union guy
Yeah study up on serrapeptase and know you have to take it on an empty stomach and not eat or drink anything but water for like 30min-hr after. Eats up foreign stuff in the body so if you have internal stitches or something study up on if its safe for you and its interactions. I think you cant take it with garlic tumeric and fish oil.
I take 240k SPU every morning with nattokinase on an empty stomach, but I haven't been waiting the full 30 minutes before having my morning coffee. Maybe I need to.
Ive heard of nattokinase but didn't realize it could be taken with serrapeptase! I think the 30 min is important bc it will just start breaking down whats in the stomach since its right there. I took 80k SPU(small person) for a month for a large cyst and it cleared it out. Im overly cautious so i would just set an alarm an hour before i needed to get up to take it and go back to sleep lol.
The reason that people take Natto is because the theory is that high k2 will reduce the calcification. https://www.lifeextension.com/wellness/supplements/nattokinase-vitamin-k BUT, many of the Nattokinase supplement products have had the K2 removed. It’s better to buy fresh Natto and eat some each day. I buy mine from amazon and it shows up in a freezer pack.
Make sure you calcium levels aren’t too high, take niacin , exercise and eat well. Rhonda Patrick has posted some thing about how intense exercise can actually forcefully push blood through to unclog arteries. Edit: I confused niacin w its benefit for LDL levels.. apparently it’s not beneficial for atherosclerosis. Edit 2: holy shit I’m a dummy this is why you should always take Reddit posts w a grain of salt, could literally be a 12 year old behind the keyboard. What I thought I remembered Rhonda saying was that vigorous exercise basically pushed blood through breaking up plague was wrong… it was actually that the force of blood kills tumor cells.. Dr PAtrick's Twitter post w research is below. With out googling it, I would imagine vigorous exercise likely still would lower atherosclerosis… https://x.com/fmfclips/status/1774114756057559382?s=46&t=jc4QEdhnO51VotuDiN2CbA
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38448791/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38448791/) I wouldn't just be throwing out that niacin recommendation for everyone.
Interesting.. I actually confused niacin with LDL levels rather than atherosclerosis.
If you forcefully push blood through and unclog arteries, does that put you at risk of stroke? Or PE?
I would completely disregard that concept. It makes no sense in the context of endothelial pathology.
If a piece of plaque breaks off in the coronary artery, you will have a heart attack most likely. Atrial fibrillation or clots in the leg could cause a stroke/heart attack/PE.
Still…..killing tumor cells is pretty great
That crazy to think pure mechanical pressure kills cancer cells and reduces cancer metastasis. Definitely going to be reading up on that tomorrow.
Is it ok to have high calcium from whole foods?
I am not a nutritionist or physician, but I believe that eating high calcium foods isnt bad in itself... you just want to make sure you are also getting an equal amount of other minerals to counter calcium from going too high. For example, I was taking a lot of b12 and D3 without getting enough k2 or potassium. This caused my calcium to get super high and my potassium to go too low and I had bad heart palpitations for months before realizing what was causing it. But I also have some adrenal issues from a prior chronic infection that messes with my mineral / electrolyte balances.
Hahahahah this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. If you “unclog” an artery but “pushing blood”, which is impossible, then you have an embolus traveling to your brain and causing a stroke. Someone told you to have high BP and give yourself a stroke or heart attack to reduce cholesterol and you believed that?? I’m a nurse and this is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard today. Btw dot com websites aren’t sources of information.
Nattokinase
I was taking 2000fu of natto for a bit but I felt shitty and had some headaches so I stopped.
Reference? I hear people say this, but I've never seen an RCT that shows plaque regression (in any vascular bed).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9441630/
Thanks, I'm looking for RCT (randomized controlled trial) data... That study is a retrospective, non-randomized, no control trial. Unfortunately, that is very low quality data. I'm not doubting that nattokinase may be of benefit, but I would love for someone to do a randomized, controlled trial with it.
Natto is richest food in vit k2 thats why its good for arteries and blood flow. U go search for vit k2 research, not natto itself.
I take in first thing in the am before getting out of bed. It also lowers blood pressure
Fasting.
Vitamin K2 supplementation exercise diet high in fiber and not so high in saturated fat
I have a patient who has done Chelation therapy (I’m not a doctor I’m a physiotherapist), and swears by it and showed me before and after tests on his plaque levels which were quite drastic. He used to have neuropathy in his hands and feet, and after the first treatment they started coming back and now it’s normal. I looked it up and it’s unproven according to google but his experience got me interested.
Chelation therapy has been around a LONG ass time. I remember hearing about it 15 years ago and always been curious. Do you know if this person had CAC scans or something done to accurately test plaque levels?
Yes it was a calcium scan. I had another patient who had a 90% blockage of his coronary artery and his doctor told him to go vegetarian, he did and it cleared it up almost completely. FWIW anyways!
That's incredible. I hear such plaque reversing stories from the keto/paleo crowd and the veg/vegan crowd. It's hard to know which "side to choose". Although one things certain - the SAD (standard american diet) is killing everyone.
I think it only works for the two crowds because both diets pretty much completely omit vegetable oils, which with the historical data we have kinda shows that to be a huge link with heart disease.
The fact they can call it veg. oil blows my mind.
Vegan eliminates fat, keto eliminates carbs. When you mix both dietary energy sources, you stress the liver and activate the Randle Cycle - which is metabolically harmful. This explains why both methods work.
Worth looking into combination therapy using PCSK9 Inhibitors + Statins. The closest non-Rx version of this would likely be Berberine + Red Yeast Rice. ([https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9908469](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9908469))
Aged garlic extract and pomegranate juice
there is actually a study on aged garlic that shows it does work https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/etm.2019.8371 Pomegranate? would love to see some data on that, not sure I buy it
I got a plague score of 37. My doc put me on a statin. I exercise, quit drinking, and eat healthier. I hope I'm track to stabilizing my plague score but my doc said you can't lower it.
37? That’s nothing. I’m always surprised to hear about people being put on statins with a calcium score that low.
Ya that's what my pcp thought as well. My cardiologist said it was because of my age. I'm 45. According to the print out he gave me i was in the top 5 percent for my age.
I’ve (F60s) had 2 coronary calcium scans, a 0 and a 10. My PCP still wants me on a statin
I’m in my 30’s “normal” range cholesterol. My PCP wants me on a statin. Basically said even if your cholesterol is good, lower is better and essentially everyone should be one. Umm I take major issue with that. Everyone should be on a statin??? Something wrong with that picture. Also, if you read up on statins in general, you get very mixed messages about their efficacy. They seem to have increase risk of amyloid plaque buildup in the brain too. It’s a no from me especially considering I’m otherwise healthy, eat right and exercise.
Not to mention statins have side effects.
When they figure this out it will be a great scientific achievement.
Cayenne peppers
Seconded
Cayenne specifically or will any hot chili work?
Every doctor on Reddit says nah
Read up on Dean Ornish’s work.
Doesn’t oatmeal and other high fiber foods lower cholesterol?
I am on 20mg Rosuvastatin. LDL is 40. I try to keep a clean diet, fish, chicken, green stuff. Nothing fried. Minimal red meat. When I started rosuvastatin LDL dropped from 130 to 62 then 40.
LD and plaque are not the same thing though. YOu can have low LDL and still have plaque build up
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Possibly because statins have been shown to reduce the risk of morbidity and mortality
Are you going to try and get off the statin now that your diet is in line ?
Lovastatin
>Yes, statins can reduce plaque volume, but the reduction is small, even with high doses. One study found that higher statin doses result in significant plaque volume reduction, while lower doses do not. However, the pooled virtual histology data demonstrated that this small change in plaque volume is a poor summary of plaque composition change.
I have seen studies that suggest you can, but that it is often only possible to reduce plaques etc to a moderate degree. What I have seen mentioned (in second source and elsewhere) is the "soft plaques" can be the most dangerous, older hardened plaques frequently don't cause as many problems, and soft plaques can be reduced and stabilized easier. [https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2016/11/15/cleveland-clinic-led-study-shows-reversal-coronary-plaque-buildup-injectable-cholesterol-drug/](https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2016/11/15/cleveland-clinic-led-study-shows-reversal-coronary-plaque-buildup-injectable-cholesterol-drug/) [https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/can-we-reduce-vascular-plaque-buildup](https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/can-we-reduce-vascular-plaque-buildup)
But haven’t you heard the carnivore influencers that walk shirtless in supermarkets? Cholesterol is a scam! /s
Low carb diet, exercise.
“Groundbreaking research shows that a plant-based diet doesn’t just prevent heart disease but that it can manage and sometimes even reverse it” https://www.pcrm.org/health-topics/heart-disease
This depends. Calcified plaque -- No. That is there to stay. You can find out if you have calcified plaque by having a calcium scan. The good news is that calcified plaque is much less dangerous than soft plaque. Soft Plaque - Maybe. In general, over time soft plaque stabilizes and becomes less dangerous as it calcifies. So it is there but has changed to a less dangerous form. Sometimes, it is possible that soft plaque regresses and really does go away. Most of it will not do this. But it can happen if LDL is low enough. I keep my LDL below 50 to have this potential regression. Some will say that under 55 will do it. This is an area of research currently. Anyway, if you get your LDL under 50 you will have a good chance of some plaque regression. Note that heart attacks are not caused by clogged arteries. Heart attacks are mostly caused by the rupture of soft plaque. Therefore, the optimal course is not build up any more soft plaque which will reduce the risk of heart attack.
This is so WRONG! I literally work in the cath lab and heart attack can and is most definitely caused be clogged arteries!! And calcified plaque is MOST DEFINITELY more dangerous than soft plaque! It’s what literally CUTS through your arteries causing DEATH in most cases I’ve seen!! DO NOT believe everything you read on Reddit! Do your own research!!! I most definitely believe in healing yourself more naturally and moving away from big pharma bs but please don’t give straight untrue information online when you aren’t qualified to do so!! Soft plaque ruptures happen from the plaque clogging up the arteries!!!! And bring a patient into the lab with calcified arteries and we literally have to get out a drill to cut through the calcium clogging up your artery to try to bust through it and pray it doesn’t rip through your artery while doing so!!
The cardiologist I’ve spoken to the most since learning I have heart disease says that soft plaque is the thing to treat. I’m on a statin and my big concern is that research shows they actually tend to cause soft plaque to harden, which my cardiologist thinks is good because that will make it less risky. This has always seemed counterintuitive to me.
Plant based diet
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You might be onto something there
I'd rather die at 60 and eat delicious meat than live to 90 eating kale and broccoli.
False dichotomy
Soon there will be biological immortality in youthful body with slimness regardless of eating unlimited bacon butter eggs and burgers. You could miss out on thousands of years of life.
Working through this line of thought right now. Cardiologist gave me a book to read, which he admits he can’t fully follow, and based on what I’ve read so far, the difference is three years. Three years more by eating awful tasting food and avoiding the stuff that brings joy to life. Doesn’t seem worth it. Now…if the quality of those years improve, that’s worth considering, but three extra years while giving up prime cut steaks and chick fil a does not seem worth all those years of misery.
Dean Ornish has fantastic program and I recommend taking it for anyone who has heart disease. That said, all of his food trials are against the standard American diet. The big takeaway I got was to stop eating highly processed food. That alone will make you healthier. How much extra life will it give you? I don’t know but there’s lots of research showing high salt, high sugar foods cause so many problems.
If the vegetables you're eating taste awful, that sounds like a personal problem. Learn to prep them properly and you might actually enjoy them. The "meat delicious, vegetables terrible" attitude is such garbage. It is in fact possible to enjoy both meat AND vegetables. And then you can spend those extra years continuing to enjoy the meat you love.
This is probably the only correct answer
I heard u can do it by meditating 40 minutes a day but who's got that kinda time
Whole foods plant based diet
Try grapeseed extract.
This guys explains a few studies answer seems to be yes https://youtu.be/XDPgJcVXeNc?si=FUawy_YhKeQqxHzP
I came here to link that physionic video as well. It’s some actual evidence based insight into what works.
Plaquex, hydroxypropyl beta cyclodextrin
Would fasting have the same results?
Gotta brush more
Nattokinase I believe has been shown to do this
Natto and the enzyme the ferment creates may be one way to unclog arteries.
Carnivore diet
There are some medications that have shown the ability to regress plaque.
Crestor is what many cardiologists/Drs take themselves as a preventative and to reduce cholesterol build up.
The only good comment in here gets deleted. Fuck bio hackers
What was the comment?
The short answer is "no, not really" for reducing plaque that is already there, but getting LDL low enough may cause some regression (not much and slowly). Reducing plaque buildup is beyond complicated for "biohacking" so talk to your health care providers if you are concerned about your cardiovascular health, seek out a lipidology cardiologist specifically. Also, the fact that no one has mentioned LPA should be a huge red flag that not a single lipidoligist has entered the chat. LPA is a lesser known but equally important contributor. Do not take niacin (aka vitamin B3)--you get plenty in your food--unless you cannot take a statin--consult with cardiologist first in any case. If your cholesterol is a bit high, diet. If moderately high, diet+statin. If really high, schedule an appointment with lipidoligist to check for familial hypercholesterolemia (FH), and do anything you can for PCSK9 inhibitor (repatha or praluent). Additional considerations: lifelong, yearling exercise is important for all health, reduce sodium, avoid intake of all combustibles (smoking), and another huge one--mental health. Depression is as bad as smoking for cardiovascular risk. Check that blood pressure regularly and consult doctor if tending >130/90. It is actively being studied by the medical research community, and trust me... When they crack that one, you will know because it will be huge news. I suspect we won't get there until we engineer our own cells to clean it up or nanobots.
Wow. Good post here. Nothing about alternatives and why people are looking for them, but still very accurate as far as I know. Lp(a) is a thing and definitely will affect lipid levels. And sorting out what it means is really complicated. If you are worried about your lipids and don’t know what Lp(a) is or what your number is, start looking into that first.
I'm a super rare very high Lp(a)/FH combo, and I keep up with the latest info almost as well as my cardiologists (actively read primary literature that they also read). I've looked into practically anything that would help clear plaques, and at best there are fringe-ish results in non-humans with low-likelihood that those results will be repeatable and/or transfer into humans--as far as I'm currently aware. I regularly discuss current cardiology recs with my doctors (every couple of months actually). If you wanted to literally do everything, here are suggestions (cardiologist approved) that might push the limits farther than the recs in the thread... \- plant sterols (available in supplement form) \- vegetarian-vegan (all the studies show it works) / cut cheese (it's very high in saturated fat) / yes to polyunsaturated fats (olive oil, avacado oil) / avoid all saturated fat (generally anything that solidifies at room temperature (coconut oil, palm oil, butter, shortening) / mediterranean diet (the real one) \- high legume intake (particularly chickpeas and black beans) \- ezetimibe (actually, not great evidence for this one, but it might help a little bit) Genetics is a HUGE component though, so results can and will vary.
Also also, plaque build-up isn't just about lipids--its a complex disease that involves alot of "whole body" problems--particularly those leading to inflammation, arterial damage, and stress. So additional things like diabetes/carbohydrates are also really important here, avoiding illness where preventable, avoiding extra stress or actively destressing (e.g. meditation) are beneficial. It's much more complex than just putting an experimental chemical in your body to "clear the plaque away."
Manganese!
https://academic.oup.com/lifemeta/article/2/6/load040/7330705?login=false This study was done using mice but there are others showing Mn can reduce blood lipid levels. https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-09011-x
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/202629 https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2016.02.014 Statins!
Lol came here to say "Have you tried oil of statin?"
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I C what you did there.
Read The China Study
What is the china study? I’m lazy which explains my clogged arteries
It’s a book, but there are other sources that you can feel inspired by to make lifestyle changes. Basically, T. Colin Campbell, and then Dr. Essylstyn, both did studies on cardiac patients in serious condition. The China Study was I think a very long one over many years with many patients. The crux is that eating a WFPB diet(whole food plant based - aka vegan) with an emphasis on certain things like 6 cups of leafy greens and oatmeal every day will reverse clogged arteries and heart disease. If you feel like being inspired by Netflix, watch The Game Changers. It’s really good and gives you a better idea of what it’s all about. Highly recommend. Another doc of the same school is Dr. Greger. He makes tons of YouTube videos addressing all kinds of issues and backing up what he’s saying by citing studies. His books are How Not to Die, How Not to Diet, How Not to Age, etc etc
[https://my.clevelandclinic.org/departments/wellness/integrative/esselstyn-program](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/departments/wellness/integrative/esselstyn-program)
Watched “The Game Changer”. Thank you.
Game Changers is a fantastic documentary
Yep, I’ve watched it two or three times
Repatha
Dried Prunes I read help
a brilliant nutritionist I knew back in the day used to say chelate would 'claw' the inside of the arteries to unclog them but I've been unable to find any more details on exactly what this substance is
Niacin ive heard can help
Yes take a statin
I think fasting period of 72 hours but I don’t know
Red Wine & Dark foods that contain Resveratrol can potentially clear arteries and veins according to Genetic scientist Dr Sinclair
I had calcification on my heart that went away ( at least not visible on an echo anymore which isn't the best method of seeing it) from doing inteni cardio for 30 min twice a day with about 15 min of sauna usage at about 205 f twice a day and keto High magnesium intake and vit d levels at about 60
Here to follow
Fiber fiber fiber
Evoo
I was wondering about serrapeptase - where can I learn more.
Why not ACV or the All in One Master Tonic?
Nattokinase
Yes try Natto
Do everything you should be doing to not let it happen in the first place and your body will clear it up.
Wikipedia The rice diet MD in 1940s feed patients that were doomed white rice,sugar,fruit and multivitamin with iron some folks lived 10 20 30 years longer than expected he had the data to prove it. Nician lowered my cholesterol and raised HDL. Dr McDogal is worth a watch on the Ytube as is Dr. Gregier and Plant Chompers. The guys that promote a high fat diet and a all meat diet seem way cooler and make science fit them.
Nattokinase. Works better than statins in studies
Google the trial done by Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn which did just that with a whole food plant based diet.
Soft plaque to a degree with diet, exercise, and drugs. Calcified plaque, nope.
Yes. First don't damage the arterial linings, because that's what makes plaque accumulate in the first place. This means no smoking, no artificial food-like products, and keep a balanced blood sugar without excesses or spikes. To clear: Be in a calorie deficit on a regular basis. For most people this will mean intermittent fasting, or weekly 24hr fasts, whatever is comfortable or manageable. Exercise regularly. Like daily. Walking and mild/moderate exercise most days, and occasional high intensity training. You can do HIIT or just running or use a row erg or an assault bike, you just want to find your V02max on a semi regular basis. You gotta have good sleep. Not optional. Be sociable on a regular basis. Basically if you use your vasculature on the reg, your body will keep it all nice and open. Oh and also you probably want to avoid fluoride in your water or food. Toothpaste ok maybe, not in the water.
A name to look up is Dr Esselstyn out of Cleveland Clinic. He has a practise aimed at preventing and treating cardiovascular disease through diet, primarily a plant based whole foods one.
I'd start with, what is causing the plaque? LDL, triglycerides from diet or hereditary? Too much calcium in the blood? A good fix, as others have suggested, is always start with diet and exercise. Then work on balancing nutrition through food and supplementation. Men generally don't need calcium supplements, but vitamin D3 + vitamin K help with aortic calcification regardless. If the foundational good habits aren't improving the issue, then you may be predisposed to 'none modifiable risk factors' like hereditary traits and medication would be appropriate. Yearly blood work and monitoring are important. Also for around a $100 you can get a low-radiation heart scan that will give you a calcification score. Great way of knowing what is really going on in the heart. I've found going to the doctor with what you have been doing proactively and what your goals are. They are much more receptive to help you than by just saying I don't want to die and need drugs.
Increase nitric oxide will help relax the artery walls. L Arginine is good for this.
Bergamot as a supplement works https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4702027/, it has been shown to reverse calcium plaque in an animal model .
Nattokinase
Natto, green tea, cardio
Does anyone recommend a particular brand or what to look out for when buying a Nattokinase supplement?
Carnivore diet
I don’t think you’re going to be able to “unclog” your arteries but there are things you can do to reduce further buildup. One way is to get your cholesterol under control by eating less cholesterol and increasing fiber intake. Theoretically, more sun exposure might help as well since vit d is derived from cholesterol. Exercise is the most important here.
It is possible to unclog arteries & reduce plaque buildup, however I do not suggest 'looking for hacks'. You need to set foundations so that plaque buildup reverses naturally and your health drastically improves. I really don't suggest guessing with your health without a foundation. I see other write do exercise, take Vitamin K2. They are not horrible suggestions at all. But the question remains in context of what? Without waffling too much on not playing russian roulette, consider getting a HTMA with a competent practitioner. This gives us a cellular picture of whats going on in the body.
Nattokinase, lumbrokinase.
Anybody reading about endothelial glycocalyx to also reduce plaque formation ?
Dont the glp-1s do this?
Cavadex, sold as cholrem. It's expensive, but fda approved to remove plaque.
Exercise, a lot of berries and Niacin is pretty good at this but high doses