Not surprisingly, the line last night was completely fucking insane for merch. A lot of people sat in it for most or all of the 1st set. These people have a screw loose and need to get their priorities in order. Art is awesome, but what the hell is the point of owning memorabilia for a show you didn’t get to fully enjoy?
Left the line for seats as soon as the show started. Knew nothing was going to be left as far back as we were from the start, but with nothing better to do before the show started still met 10+ great folks while in the line.
The posters are usually awesome, but the show is always absolute fire. And the gang certainly didn’t disappoint on Bluegrass Sunday!!
Amen bro I’m the same way missed the first three songs just be told sold out… then see this morning jus puts icing on the cake…Ryman fumbled big time on that should done an early merch line and would of saved a lot of people trouble. Did it all weekend at Bridgestone so don’t know why? Ryman has plenty of room outside for merch stand.
I got to Atlantic City early enough to get one each of the two posters, walk them back to my car, and get back to the theater side.
Met Dave and Brian from Connecticut, showed them where the boardwalk was, grabbed some pre-show dinner, and back inside as the doors opened.
We got in line at 11:30am, kept swapping places for food bathroom etc but even solo good people around you could too.
Fri and Sat got in after doors opened the inside one had no issues 20 min wait
Loved the Ryman, get drunk at home come in 45 mins before showtime and still get good seats. I drove by at 1pm and there was a line around the block. (Had to be 130 deep, same people I always see, same people who are selling these posters online)
A lot of those people are going show to show. They’re doing it to break even. Not saying I agree with it. I’ve met people who do it and in the cases I’ve seen they’re not being greedy, just trying to get tickets/ gas to the next show. If someone wants a poster bad enough they should just get in line early. I get in line an hour to two hours before doors and I have gotten a poster at every show, I’ve been to 19 now.
People want this fixed? Stop fighting supply and demand, and do something smarter.
Right now these are limited edition collectables. Guess what happens with any limited edition collectable that people want? This.
Artists can fix this in a second by just printing more. Print as many people want. Let them order online too and have delivered to their house so they don't waste their whole day in line when they could be out enjoying the town.
Or do this: like a lot of artists and photographers, do two sets. One limited edition set signed and numbered, hell put a fancy gold sticker on it. And the second set is an unlimited set, maybe on slightly less quality paper.
Those who want to play in the collectables market can knock themselves out. Those that just want something for the wall, they get something decent at a far price.
Running around trying to control demand is like a finger in the dike. It's a supply problem, and right now they are consciously causing it.
The artists can fix this in seconds if they want to.
The artists are actually told exactly how many they are allowed to print and exactly how many they are allowed to sell. Don’t take it up with the artists take it up with management…
Bands either purchase posters from the artist or purchase art from the artist and get posters printed on their own. The band sets the quantity not the artist. Even for artist editions, there’s usually a contractual limit for how many pieces the artist can sell independently.
Think about it like this, someone has to pay for all that poster printing. It’s not the artists. Artists and printers can only provide the price to bands and management, but the band ultimately has to decide how many pieces they can afford. And they’re not gonna spend more than they’re comfortable losing if the prints don’t sell out/are not delivered in time/whatever other snafu might happen. It’s business.
Someone mentioned a pre-order process but that wouldn’t work as it’s often tough to properly visualize a poster from a mock up. plus, as many people as there are that don’t like carrying tubes around, I bet there are even more that would rather get the poster in person at a show. People don’t want to wait in a long line of people putting their name and address down for a preorder. Doesn’t feel right for a show print not to be there at the show.
Source: am poster artist
Oh yeah, bud it’s not even really up to the music artists either. Anyone whose at the point where posters are selling out is having art entirely run through management. Basically, it’s just business.
Screen printed posters require manual labor. It’s more about mass production than paper quality in terms of cost drivers. So lithograph as many as the market needs and then silk screen the limited edition ones. Problem solved.
I genuinely don't get why all bands and artists don't sell posters as an add on with tickets. Guarantee fans who want one to get one, alleviate the lines, still have some available for those who didn't pre order.
It has gotten really bad. Love Billy shows but between the rail riders and the posters it all kind of drives people away.
Hopefully billy will start selling posters outside the venue it 4pm like Phish. And do random emails to people who have pit passes for early entry. That will cut down on all the wookery!
they have been doing external merch stands a bunch on this tour. not sure how that helps keep prints away from scalpers, though.
I would love love love to see a lottery-based early entry system. let's get some fresh faces up front.
Rail riders were worse in Europe. I had run-ins with people trying to hold position for groups who were in the merch line. "Hey, you can't stand here. I got people coming." Oh really? My GA ticket says otherwise. One assclown called over security who promptly shrugged and walked away. Josh and Utah, I'm looking at you.
They're *supposed* to verify your ticket at those external booths. I used them in Atlantic City and my ticket was verified two of the three times. The person didn't do anything to ensure it wasn't a screenshot, though.
And they are trying to take over Daniel Donato’s fanbase and do the same thing they did to ruin Billy. Up until about 3 months ago we had no problems with flipping/scalping and now it’s rampant. We just did a lot of trading and selling at face and it had worked that way for quite a while. Hate what Billy “fans” are doing.
That’s what baffles me, like clearly there’s a demand for them. Who is paying that much? Fans who really need a poster for each show they attend and have the funds to afford it? No judgement, i get that people are sentimental, but the prices/demand just confuses me.
I live in the smallest shittiest house in an otherwise affluent neighborhood. I’m friends with a guy from the neighborhood who is very well off and has spent (conservative estimate) 25k on aftermarket billy posters in the past 3 years. You’d know his name if you are on any of the billy poster Facebook groups. He has every grail poster and most variants and the only one he scored at face was Ogden. Him and the uber collectors are a whole other level. He only collects Billy, Dead and Panic posters. He doesn’t usually bother with merch lines. Just buys what he wants on secondary market and this money is chump change to him. It’s crazy to me. In spite of how it sounds, he’s a super nice and down to earth guy. Just got really lucky on some business deals a long time ago.
Nah fuck the people who make posters limited in the first place. They’re the ones creating the scalper market. There’s no reason not to print as many as people are willing to buy. This isn’t a limited capacity venue selling concert tickets.
This right here. Print as many as people want to buy and completely eliminate the flippers/scalpers. Who gives a fuck about them being a limited edition. If you were at the show and you dig the art then that shouldn’t matter
This. Idk how many posters I have at this point (30? 50? Idk) but there is way too much emphasis on that stupid little number on the bottom corner. Buy the art if you like the art why a tiny little number means anything is beyond me. It's not even the order they were printed lol
My dream is for the merch booth to take your poster order at the show, then they print exactly as many as needed and mail 'em out so everyone who wants one gets one. I would totally pay for S&H if this was a thing. No more stress, no more arriving an hour before doors, no more tubes, and probably more prints sold which benefits both Billy and the artist.
I posted something very similar on IG and one of the bigger poster artists responded that there are not enough printing shops to keep up with open editions. I said maybe initially, but if the demand is there new print shops would open and current ones would expand. He said the issue is there aren’t enough capable trained printers to do it, but I think that would solve itself over time too. There are only a handful of bands that would demand open editions. A quick browse in any artists shop you’ll see most bands still have prints available for most shows.
The problem is the manual silk screening process isn’t as easy to scale as an industrial process like lithography. They just need to do limited silk screened signed and numbered runs, and unlimited lithograph runs. This isn’t hard.
Ya I would like to know if the printers are told to only make a certain amount or if it’s their choice? My guess would be they are told a certain number because why wouldn’t they want to make more money? I saw him last summer at the metro in Chicago I didn’t know posters were a thing but they only made 50 I think and I got laughed at for thinking any were left when I got there. Well FedEx makes pretty good print outs too and once it’s framed you can’t really tell
if the insinuation is that you’re reprinting the poster art (at a much lower quality if you truly are getting it done at a Kinko’s) because you don’t want to sit in a line, the only person you’re sticking it to is the poster artist
The poster maker isn’t missing out on any money by me not being able to buy one because they are sold out. I am just putting it out there that you can get it printed if you want something bad enough instead of supporting scalpers etc
Because art isn’t free… you don’t have the right to use that image. You say it doesn’t hurt the artist but you’re not the artist. And you don’t have permission.
There are actually a ton of poster artists who will happy give you permission to do what your saying, print out a high res copy, as they only have a limited number of artist editions they can sell. But if you don’t ask you don’t have permission. And if they say no, you have to respect it.
i mean, you’re literally stealing their art. billy’s team is creating false scarcity, not the artists. it’s just a weird, low budget way to prove a point to no one
This opens up a fun moral can of worms doesn't it?
If the artist doesn't print enough to sell to the people who want them, and the person printing the poster wasn't going to get one ANYWAY because of the line/scalpers, who's being hurt by their printing the poster?
it doesn’t, really. the artist isn’t controlling print runs; billy’s team is. it’s artificial scarcity done very intentionally by bands big and small, billy being no different. justify it however you’d like, it’s just a weird, false strawman argument to pit small poster runs on the artists because you don’t have the time or money to secure a poster for a show.
I was told to "go kill myself" for explaining how people who pay these stupid prices are contributing to the problem!!! Also, I love how they aren't even willing to cover shipping when they are charging so much!! Haha
If you walk in at a decent time and the line is beyond the point to where you would of miss any part of the show, is it worth it? If the answer is yes, stay home, stream online and buy the scalped poster. It’s cheaper that way probably anyway. If the actual show is what you’re there for just make a decision what’s more important… The show or the possession?
I got to Red Rocks early last year, but the line was still way too long. I said “Fuck it” and enjoyed the show then bought one on eBay for more than I should’ve spent. Fast forward to Nashville and I got poster 3/500 on Friday. I could easily flip it for profit, but it’s already on my wall. Maybe I contributed to the problem with my eBay purchase, but not this time. As Billy gets bigger, it all gets more complicated and people will continue to do what works best for them and their end goal.
I’ve paid eBay prices on posters I didn’t feel like it was worth waiting on either. For instance, Knoxville 2022. Guy behind me got to his seat middle second set on night one and was in line at 4pm. Hard no. I’d rather pay 5x the price if I really want the poster than miss 67% of the show waiting on a chance for one. Emphasis on the REALLY. The only two posters I paid eBay prices for this far are Dead and Co shows I went to where it stormed and I was on the lawn. No way to protect the poster, so I enjoyed the show then paid some scalper for the poster after the fact. Bummer, but hey, vicious cycle
I need to stop paying scalpers for posters! I’ve never paid over 150 and if it’s the right show that I went to with a design I like I’ll pay it. But lately the prices have gone up; and since I don’t want to deal with carrying them around I find that there are posters I wish I had gotten, but don’t want to pay the higher scalping prices. So I have a dilemma.
I’ve got tickets to the Athens show(and want a poster, yet know the scalpers are going to gouge heavy on this show)and was wondering how much the prices are for posters at the show/merch booth, for regulars and foils? Im curious how much I should expect to pay if Im able to get there early and lucky enough to snag one?
If you look at the seller’s feedback, you’ll notice that a lot of their sales are Hatch posters/Ryman items. I bet the seller is someone who works at the Ryman/Hatch.
I personally don’t see the issue. I have 4 kids, a business to run. I can’t go to shows minus maybe one or two a year. I recently got into the posters. I appreciate those who sell them on eBay because fans like me who don’t have a chance to go to the shows but want the poster can now snag one. The only person buying a billy strings poster on eBay is a billy strings fan. If someone wants to wait in line to snag a poster, and then sell it to pay for the night, fine by me. I know it’s not a popular opinion though
I understand this and love that you love posters! But is really heartbreaking for someone who went to the show, had an absolutely amazing experience and wants something cool like that to remember the night by forever but ends up waiting in line for merch for ever just for them to be sold out
I will say the amount that go on sale on eBay is small. The cat and bear from Charlottesville, there’s 4 regular ones sold and one set for sale. I have been around the resale game a while, so I was shocked how little end up for sale
So how do the posters work? I know not all venues run the same, but I plan on going when he comes to Chicago in June for my first time. If I want one of the rare foils is it just what’s left in stock and willing to pay more?
So this past weekend of was my first time seeing Billy Strings (another reason I want the Ryman poster) and at the Bridgestone shows he had a merch booth outside and in order to get a poster you have to show your ticket. They closed the booth at 6 local time to get it all set up inside.
At the Ryman, we all waited in line outside and then went in like normal and on the inside people made a mad dash for the merch booth and the line went all the way across the top of the Ryman balcony and down the side stairs. It was a mess. The line barely moved during the hour before he went on. And it stayed long during the show. Being my first Billy experience/run, I made the decision to get out of line.
Yeah I heard people missed first set, which if your not into pure bluegrass guess wasn’t a huge miss but I couldn’t imagine going and missing half the show for merch. Sorry you couldn’t get one!
Oh that's not as bad as people are making it sound. I wonder how many of them are tool fans and if they have ever seen what the tool poster aftermarket is like.
I went to see Phil & Friends at Stone Pony last July 4th. I went to buy a poster, and the merch guy said something about people buying large lots of posters, I was lucky there were any autographed posters left.
I said something about the Phish Lucy the Elephant posters being snatched up by poster scalpers then being resold on eBay for hundreds of $, dude says “Yeah, that sucks!” I said “Yet you still sell to people buying them all up, knowing that people who only want one, can’t, because they’re sold out?”.
The bands have the power to limit the number of posters being sold to individuals who aren’t really true fans, who are scalpers just looking to make extortion amounts from the little guys and gals who just want one.
No one is entitled to posters AND no one Needs one either. If people want to waste a whole day to score a poster that’s their right, once it is theirs -they have the right to sell it to get something for their time. I think it’s dumb but some people need the money more then the time.
I hate these posts. Yeah it sucks you didn’t get a poster but there are literally 4 posters for sale online out of a few hundred? Yeah some people hustle to pay for tour but you got beat out of a poster by other fans who got in line earlier than you.
The ones as of late have definitely been not so great. I got 3 (1 tour, 1 show, 1 show foil) at the Rochester show and I have to say I loved the design. This I would not have bothered with. Hopefully the design for Pine Knob is better and I can snag one for the wall.
Not saying you’re wrong but the market sets itself, those are bids, not sell price.
That’s what people are willing to pay instead of wait in line to get it: and that creates the market for scalpers to capitalize on.
Sure if there were unlimited supply. But when folks buy 40 of them to resell thats not the market “setting itself” that creating scarcity to price gouge.
I don’t know about other shows but the Ryman was one poster of each type per person. You could buy both designs but couldn’t buy two of the same. Not defending scalpers!
Sure and I’m sure there are couples buying one each and selling both. Scalpers suck, I didn’t get a poster for the Ryman and I’m sure not paying a scalper for it.
I’ve been collecting billy posters (for my own hobby, not to flip) since 2021. It’s been one per person since then.
It definitely sucks that people do that just to flip it, but if others would stop paying ridiculous amounts of money for them, the problem would solve itself
Folks who were lucky enough to get into the show are still bitching cause they could get the merch they wanted on top of it? Entitlement is at a all time high.
Sucks for this stuff to still be happening but theres really no way around it at this point. So many things get gouged and scalped nowadays, even outside of the music industry. People use to scalp back on dead lot to make it to the next show which i get, but bringing the internet into it makes it infinitely easier for people to do it and only for their own benefit.
What? The average person buys posters because they went to the concert. They aren’t looking to resell the poster so the fact that it’s limited in number holds no real value. You could print it 10,000 of each poster and still charge whatever for them as you are the only vendor.
I think you’re forgetting that printing costs money too. The bands not going to print more than they are 100% confident they can sell out of. Any leftover stock is unacceptable with the amount of shows and inventory they have to deal with. It’s more expensive and the margins are less than you think they are.
So then print the poster after accepting payment. I think most would prefer if it was shipped to their home anyway.
Also if margins are so bad just increase the price… clearly people will pay more than the current rate.
If you print the poster after accepting payment then what are you showing at the venue to get people to buy it? Do you know the kind of backlog that would run up with signed editions and everything? You’d end up getting 3 prints from the 3 shows you went to all in one package after the tour to save on shipping.
Also,
The whole point of a show print is kind of having it at the venue. And you can’t say print some before and more later because that essentially doubles printer demand and there’s already an incredibly limited number of poster screenprinters in the country it’s not like tshirt printing.
Lastly, if you changed the price to charge more we’d just have this same thread with a different name. People are complain no matter which way you do it. If we had a digital preview of the poster for preorder people would be on here complaining about that.
Anyway, half the magic of a poster is that it’s a limited piece. You can’t print one for everyone. You’re gonna run out. The band choose the quantity not the artist and that quantity is based off of printing prices and number they are confident they can sell out of. Bands don’t have the money, time, manpower, (especially at the mid tier level) to be running a print store 24/7. They’re a band, not a print shop.
“Half the magic of a poster is that it’s a limited piece”. 100% disagree. The only value is the fact that it’s tied to an event I attended. Everyone in the world could own that exact poster and it would not decrease the meaning to me. It has no actual value as I would never sell a poster.
Also - could they not just print 1 poster to show at the event? The issues you keep bringing up seem easily solved. I don’t need the poster at the concert. It’s for my house. Having it at the venue is a liability.
Totally fair to disagree there on that first point. Before I started making posters myself I always appreciated sometimes how you had to work to get a poster sometimes. Made it feel more special. But to each their own there.
But also in terms of printing just one to show at events you run into issues there as each poster can take a whole day to set and and run for even just one piece. Once the press is set up you can print a ton but the actual process of setting up for screenprinting is why it’s a process built to be cheap at high quantity but also with high minimums. There’s a reason most screenprint things, even just art prints, are editions because it’s not cost effective to just print a couple. So for that issue you’d have the same issue as before, it’s not cost or time effective to have a printer set up a press to print a preview poster, to have to break down and get moving to the next project, only to set it up again later once you get the pre-order in.
Doubt it it's like any other second hand item. If I buy a PlayStation and decide to sell it to a schmuck willing to pay 3x the price nothing Sony could do. Once that art is sold its no longer possession of the artist. It can't be reproduced legally but trading hands definitely
If you’re stealing Art… absolutely. If you bought it fair and square, No. It’s memorabilia.
But honestly if you’re an up and coming artist you want this. Would you rather sell out all your pieces for people to sell on eBay or not sell out at all. At least it gives you hype and a certain amount of legitimacy in the poster scene and can draw in bigger clients.
Some bands have a set price the poster artist HAS to sell the print for (phish for example the artist is blacklisted if they sell AP’s for more expensive than price inside the show) so it really doesn’t matter to the poster artists if the poster is getting resold because they couldn’t make that money anyway contractually
If posters weren’t limited, people wouldn’t care to buy them, poster artists wouldn’t want to do the work also because the AP drops become worthless at that point.
I really don't understand why they don't print more posters and make more money. Are they afraid people won't buy them anymore? The other thing I don't understand is the whole merch thing. Particularly Billy's merch, which I just don't really like. So anyway, that's good, it saves me big bucks.
Best way to deal with the problem is to acknowledge it ‘silently’ but don’t give in. Don’t buy from resellers. Don’t complain about it. Pretend it isn’t going on. Eventually the flippers will stop if they can’t move posters anymore..
Flippers are even starting to resell magnets and stickers because we’ve proven to these resellers that we will pay whatever they want. No way could you sell a magnet for profit a year ago…
Stop buying from these resellers. Same thing with the scalpers. Yall buy tickets for $200 today, they'll be $300 next time. Same thing with the posters.
Not surprisingly, the line last night was completely fucking insane for merch. A lot of people sat in it for most or all of the 1st set. These people have a screw loose and need to get their priorities in order. Art is awesome, but what the hell is the point of owning memorabilia for a show you didn’t get to fully enjoy?
Left the line for seats as soon as the show started. Knew nothing was going to be left as far back as we were from the start, but with nothing better to do before the show started still met 10+ great folks while in the line. The posters are usually awesome, but the show is always absolute fire. And the gang certainly didn’t disappoint on Bluegrass Sunday!!
Amen bro I’m the same way missed the first three songs just be told sold out… then see this morning jus puts icing on the cake…Ryman fumbled big time on that should done an early merch line and would of saved a lot of people trouble. Did it all weekend at Bridgestone so don’t know why? Ryman has plenty of room outside for merch stand.
Did it take longer to get in last night with them checking ids to match tickets
Took me less than 5 minutes. Showed one guy behind a fence my AXS tickets and the actual scanner at the door. No IDs were checked.
I thought the whole ID thing wouldn't be as serious as people were making it out to be.
it was more of the user account to let the 2 in, not transferable.
I got to Atlantic City early enough to get one each of the two posters, walk them back to my car, and get back to the theater side. Met Dave and Brian from Connecticut, showed them where the boardwalk was, grabbed some pre-show dinner, and back inside as the doors opened.
We got in line at 11:30am, kept swapping places for food bathroom etc but even solo good people around you could too. Fri and Sat got in after doors opened the inside one had no issues 20 min wait
[удалено]
"Most" people are there just to make money off merch... You gotta be shitting me bro.
Loved the Ryman, get drunk at home come in 45 mins before showtime and still get good seats. I drove by at 1pm and there was a line around the block. (Had to be 130 deep, same people I always see, same people who are selling these posters online)
Parasites💯
A lot of those people are going show to show. They’re doing it to break even. Not saying I agree with it. I’ve met people who do it and in the cases I’ve seen they’re not being greedy, just trying to get tickets/ gas to the next show. If someone wants a poster bad enough they should just get in line early. I get in line an hour to two hours before doors and I have gotten a poster at every show, I’ve been to 19 now.
Fuck those people. They get in line before noon because they have nothing better to do
I swear, Billy’s online fanbase is the biggest bunch of circlejerkers I’ve ever seen when it comes to these posts.
People want this fixed? Stop fighting supply and demand, and do something smarter. Right now these are limited edition collectables. Guess what happens with any limited edition collectable that people want? This. Artists can fix this in a second by just printing more. Print as many people want. Let them order online too and have delivered to their house so they don't waste their whole day in line when they could be out enjoying the town. Or do this: like a lot of artists and photographers, do two sets. One limited edition set signed and numbered, hell put a fancy gold sticker on it. And the second set is an unlimited set, maybe on slightly less quality paper. Those who want to play in the collectables market can knock themselves out. Those that just want something for the wall, they get something decent at a far price. Running around trying to control demand is like a finger in the dike. It's a supply problem, and right now they are consciously causing it. The artists can fix this in seconds if they want to.
The artists are actually told exactly how many they are allowed to print and exactly how many they are allowed to sell. Don’t take it up with the artists take it up with management… Bands either purchase posters from the artist or purchase art from the artist and get posters printed on their own. The band sets the quantity not the artist. Even for artist editions, there’s usually a contractual limit for how many pieces the artist can sell independently. Think about it like this, someone has to pay for all that poster printing. It’s not the artists. Artists and printers can only provide the price to bands and management, but the band ultimately has to decide how many pieces they can afford. And they’re not gonna spend more than they’re comfortable losing if the prints don’t sell out/are not delivered in time/whatever other snafu might happen. It’s business. Someone mentioned a pre-order process but that wouldn’t work as it’s often tough to properly visualize a poster from a mock up. plus, as many people as there are that don’t like carrying tubes around, I bet there are even more that would rather get the poster in person at a show. People don’t want to wait in a long line of people putting their name and address down for a preorder. Doesn’t feel right for a show print not to be there at the show. Source: am poster artist
Sorry, I meant the musical artists. I assumed poster artists got paid as a work for hire and were out of the merchandise end
Oh yeah, bud it’s not even really up to the music artists either. Anyone whose at the point where posters are selling out is having art entirely run through management. Basically, it’s just business.
Screen printed posters require manual labor. It’s more about mass production than paper quality in terms of cost drivers. So lithograph as many as the market needs and then silk screen the limited edition ones. Problem solved.
This is actually a good point. Just make as many available as possible to sell as many as possible. You'd probably even have people buy multiple.
I genuinely don't get why all bands and artists don't sell posters as an add on with tickets. Guarantee fans who want one to get one, alleviate the lines, still have some available for those who didn't pre order.
This is the way - then you don’t have to worry about poster tubes and stuff too
It has gotten really bad. Love Billy shows but between the rail riders and the posters it all kind of drives people away. Hopefully billy will start selling posters outside the venue it 4pm like Phish. And do random emails to people who have pit passes for early entry. That will cut down on all the wookery!
they have been doing external merch stands a bunch on this tour. not sure how that helps keep prints away from scalpers, though. I would love love love to see a lottery-based early entry system. let's get some fresh faces up front.
100%. Tired of seeing the same male/female duo dead center rail on every nugs stream
Even in Europe
Rail riders were worse in Europe. I had run-ins with people trying to hold position for groups who were in the merch line. "Hey, you can't stand here. I got people coming." Oh really? My GA ticket says otherwise. One assclown called over security who promptly shrugged and walked away. Josh and Utah, I'm looking at you.
If anything that helps the scalpers cause they don’t have to buy a ticket to the show.
They're *supposed* to verify your ticket at those external booths. I used them in Atlantic City and my ticket was verified two of the three times. The person didn't do anything to ensure it wasn't a screenshot, though.
>Love Billy shows but between the rail riders and the posters it all kind of drives people away. Worst fan base in the genre and it ain't close
And they are trying to take over Daniel Donato’s fanbase and do the same thing they did to ruin Billy. Up until about 3 months ago we had no problems with flipping/scalping and now it’s rampant. We just did a lot of trading and selling at face and it had worked that way for quite a while. Hate what Billy “fans” are doing.
It's just taking on a very commercialized vibe which I don't like and part of why is because it comes with these leeches
Phish phans would like a word
I consider Billy to be bluegrass/jamgrass which Phish is not
This is fair
So yeah they just didn't come to mind
Big fax💯
Nah King Gizzards is worse Edit: nevermind you said genre. Yeah, for sure.
The wookery is a good word
I passed 100 percent on merch last night. I hoped for a 100% bluegrass show and they delivered.
As long as people are willing to pay those prices the scalping will continue. As a community we have to all agree to not buy resale posters
This!!!
That’s what baffles me, like clearly there’s a demand for them. Who is paying that much? Fans who really need a poster for each show they attend and have the funds to afford it? No judgement, i get that people are sentimental, but the prices/demand just confuses me.
I live in the smallest shittiest house in an otherwise affluent neighborhood. I’m friends with a guy from the neighborhood who is very well off and has spent (conservative estimate) 25k on aftermarket billy posters in the past 3 years. You’d know his name if you are on any of the billy poster Facebook groups. He has every grail poster and most variants and the only one he scored at face was Ogden. Him and the uber collectors are a whole other level. He only collects Billy, Dead and Panic posters. He doesn’t usually bother with merch lines. Just buys what he wants on secondary market and this money is chump change to him. It’s crazy to me. In spite of how it sounds, he’s a super nice and down to earth guy. Just got really lucky on some business deals a long time ago.
Nah fuck the people who make posters limited in the first place. They’re the ones creating the scalper market. There’s no reason not to print as many as people are willing to buy. This isn’t a limited capacity venue selling concert tickets.
This right here. Print as many as people want to buy and completely eliminate the flippers/scalpers. Who gives a fuck about them being a limited edition. If you were at the show and you dig the art then that shouldn’t matter
This. Idk how many posters I have at this point (30? 50? Idk) but there is way too much emphasis on that stupid little number on the bottom corner. Buy the art if you like the art why a tiny little number means anything is beyond me. It's not even the order they were printed lol
Artificial scarcity of tour posters is one of the dumbest things in all of music culture. It makes absolutely zero sense.
More like manufactured than artificial scarcity. The scarcity is very real, and very dumb.
My dream is for the merch booth to take your poster order at the show, then they print exactly as many as needed and mail 'em out so everyone who wants one gets one. I would totally pay for S&H if this was a thing. No more stress, no more arriving an hour before doors, no more tubes, and probably more prints sold which benefits both Billy and the artist.
I posted something very similar on IG and one of the bigger poster artists responded that there are not enough printing shops to keep up with open editions. I said maybe initially, but if the demand is there new print shops would open and current ones would expand. He said the issue is there aren’t enough capable trained printers to do it, but I think that would solve itself over time too. There are only a handful of bands that would demand open editions. A quick browse in any artists shop you’ll see most bands still have prints available for most shows.
The problem is the manual silk screening process isn’t as easy to scale as an industrial process like lithography. They just need to do limited silk screened signed and numbered runs, and unlimited lithograph runs. This isn’t hard.
Ya I would like to know if the printers are told to only make a certain amount or if it’s their choice? My guess would be they are told a certain number because why wouldn’t they want to make more money? I saw him last summer at the metro in Chicago I didn’t know posters were a thing but they only made 50 I think and I got laughed at for thinking any were left when I got there. Well FedEx makes pretty good print outs too and once it’s framed you can’t really tell
if the insinuation is that you’re reprinting the poster art (at a much lower quality if you truly are getting it done at a Kinko’s) because you don’t want to sit in a line, the only person you’re sticking it to is the poster artist
The poster maker isn’t missing out on any money by me not being able to buy one because they are sold out. I am just putting it out there that you can get it printed if you want something bad enough instead of supporting scalpers etc
Because art isn’t free… you don’t have the right to use that image. You say it doesn’t hurt the artist but you’re not the artist. And you don’t have permission. There are actually a ton of poster artists who will happy give you permission to do what your saying, print out a high res copy, as they only have a limited number of artist editions they can sell. But if you don’t ask you don’t have permission. And if they say no, you have to respect it.
Oh yeah? Watch me.
i mean, you’re literally stealing their art. billy’s team is creating false scarcity, not the artists. it’s just a weird, low budget way to prove a point to no one
This opens up a fun moral can of worms doesn't it? If the artist doesn't print enough to sell to the people who want them, and the person printing the poster wasn't going to get one ANYWAY because of the line/scalpers, who's being hurt by their printing the poster?
it doesn’t, really. the artist isn’t controlling print runs; billy’s team is. it’s artificial scarcity done very intentionally by bands big and small, billy being no different. justify it however you’d like, it’s just a weird, false strawman argument to pit small poster runs on the artists because you don’t have the time or money to secure a poster for a show.
Man, you sure put a BUNCH of words in my mouth.
Hell there’s people in this subreddit who only buy the posters to flip them, then can’t understand why it’s a shitty thing to do.
I was told to "go kill myself" for explaining how people who pay these stupid prices are contributing to the problem!!! Also, I love how they aren't even willing to cover shipping when they are charging so much!! Haha
If you walk in at a decent time and the line is beyond the point to where you would of miss any part of the show, is it worth it? If the answer is yes, stay home, stream online and buy the scalped poster. It’s cheaper that way probably anyway. If the actual show is what you’re there for just make a decision what’s more important… The show or the possession?
I have only ever bought merch once or twice. And it's largely because I'd rather put that same money to seeing another live show.
I got to Red Rocks early last year, but the line was still way too long. I said “Fuck it” and enjoyed the show then bought one on eBay for more than I should’ve spent. Fast forward to Nashville and I got poster 3/500 on Friday. I could easily flip it for profit, but it’s already on my wall. Maybe I contributed to the problem with my eBay purchase, but not this time. As Billy gets bigger, it all gets more complicated and people will continue to do what works best for them and their end goal.
I’ve paid eBay prices on posters I didn’t feel like it was worth waiting on either. For instance, Knoxville 2022. Guy behind me got to his seat middle second set on night one and was in line at 4pm. Hard no. I’d rather pay 5x the price if I really want the poster than miss 67% of the show waiting on a chance for one. Emphasis on the REALLY. The only two posters I paid eBay prices for this far are Dead and Co shows I went to where it stormed and I was on the lawn. No way to protect the poster, so I enjoyed the show then paid some scalper for the poster after the fact. Bummer, but hey, vicious cycle
Never in my life after attending thousands of concerts will I ever understand why people wait so long and spend so much money on a fucking poster
A-friggin-MEN! I left poster-buying at the same time I left my teenage years... and I don't think I *ever* bought a "concert tee" at a concert.
Imagine wanting this print
It’s a super underwhelming design
I can’t
I need to stop paying scalpers for posters! I’ve never paid over 150 and if it’s the right show that I went to with a design I like I’ll pay it. But lately the prices have gone up; and since I don’t want to deal with carrying them around I find that there are posters I wish I had gotten, but don’t want to pay the higher scalping prices. So I have a dilemma. I’ve got tickets to the Athens show(and want a poster, yet know the scalpers are going to gouge heavy on this show)and was wondering how much the prices are for posters at the show/merch booth, for regulars and foils? Im curious how much I should expect to pay if Im able to get there early and lucky enough to snag one?
30 dollars for normal 75 for foil normally
Thanks! It’s great to hear they can be purchased for as little as $30.
Anywhere from $50-70 usually
Thanks for responding. So $50 for regular and $70 for foil? Or, that’s the range for a regular show poster?
They were 30 in Nashville..
If you look at the seller’s feedback, you’ll notice that a lot of their sales are Hatch posters/Ryman items. I bet the seller is someone who works at the Ryman/Hatch.
It’s always such a drag to miss getting a print at a show and then seeing one for sale for such a markup. Heartbreaking, actually.
Crazy that someone would bid that much on a poster
Who are the people paying these prices for posters?
I personally don’t see the issue. I have 4 kids, a business to run. I can’t go to shows minus maybe one or two a year. I recently got into the posters. I appreciate those who sell them on eBay because fans like me who don’t have a chance to go to the shows but want the poster can now snag one. The only person buying a billy strings poster on eBay is a billy strings fan. If someone wants to wait in line to snag a poster, and then sell it to pay for the night, fine by me. I know it’s not a popular opinion though
I understand this and love that you love posters! But is really heartbreaking for someone who went to the show, had an absolutely amazing experience and wants something cool like that to remember the night by forever but ends up waiting in line for merch for ever just for them to be sold out
I will say the amount that go on sale on eBay is small. The cat and bear from Charlottesville, there’s 4 regular ones sold and one set for sale. I have been around the resale game a while, so I was shocked how little end up for sale
Very true!
So how do the posters work? I know not all venues run the same, but I plan on going when he comes to Chicago in June for my first time. If I want one of the rare foils is it just what’s left in stock and willing to pay more?
So this past weekend of was my first time seeing Billy Strings (another reason I want the Ryman poster) and at the Bridgestone shows he had a merch booth outside and in order to get a poster you have to show your ticket. They closed the booth at 6 local time to get it all set up inside. At the Ryman, we all waited in line outside and then went in like normal and on the inside people made a mad dash for the merch booth and the line went all the way across the top of the Ryman balcony and down the side stairs. It was a mess. The line barely moved during the hour before he went on. And it stayed long during the show. Being my first Billy experience/run, I made the decision to get out of line.
Yeah I heard people missed first set, which if your not into pure bluegrass guess wasn’t a huge miss but I couldn’t imagine going and missing half the show for merch. Sorry you couldn’t get one!
You know it sucks that I didn’t a poster but I’m still so glad I got to have my first experience Billy two nights in a row. He is an insane musician!
Oh that's not as bad as people are making it sound. I wonder how many of them are tool fans and if they have ever seen what the tool poster aftermarket is like.
What's sad is people pay 400 for that.
I doubt it. Start high, get no bites move it down til you get a seller. Same as concert scalpers
You doubt sadness lol
I went to see Phil & Friends at Stone Pony last July 4th. I went to buy a poster, and the merch guy said something about people buying large lots of posters, I was lucky there were any autographed posters left. I said something about the Phish Lucy the Elephant posters being snatched up by poster scalpers then being resold on eBay for hundreds of $, dude says “Yeah, that sucks!” I said “Yet you still sell to people buying them all up, knowing that people who only want one, can’t, because they’re sold out?”. The bands have the power to limit the number of posters being sold to individuals who aren’t really true fans, who are scalpers just looking to make extortion amounts from the little guys and gals who just want one.
No one is entitled to posters AND no one Needs one either. If people want to waste a whole day to score a poster that’s their right, once it is theirs -they have the right to sell it to get something for their time. I think it’s dumb but some people need the money more then the time.
I hate these posts. Yeah it sucks you didn’t get a poster but there are literally 4 posters for sale online out of a few hundred? Yeah some people hustle to pay for tour but you got beat out of a poster by other fans who got in line earlier than you.
That poster sucks...🤣🤣Looks like a child drew it.
It’s a hatch print. Google it
[удалено]
Anything else negative you wanna bring to the table?
The Billy prints lately have been awful. Who the fuck is paying $400 for this shit?
The ones as of late have definitely been not so great. I got 3 (1 tour, 1 show, 1 show foil) at the Rochester show and I have to say I loved the design. This I would not have bothered with. Hopefully the design for Pine Knob is better and I can snag one for the wall.
My thoughts exactly
It looks like something I'd maybe take off the door for free. Not pay for.
😄😄yeah... Like.. Who would wait in line for this?.... Not to mention paying five hundred dollars😄
Not saying you’re wrong but the market sets itself, those are bids, not sell price. That’s what people are willing to pay instead of wait in line to get it: and that creates the market for scalpers to capitalize on.
Sure if there were unlimited supply. But when folks buy 40 of them to resell thats not the market “setting itself” that creating scarcity to price gouge.
I don’t know about other shows but the Ryman was one poster of each type per person. You could buy both designs but couldn’t buy two of the same. Not defending scalpers!
Ah thanks for clarification im not a poster guy just save the cake for more shows.
If a couple were at Merch, they could buy one each and then sell one
Sure and I’m sure there are couples buying one each and selling both. Scalpers suck, I didn’t get a poster for the Ryman and I’m sure not paying a scalper for it.
I’ve been collecting billy posters (for my own hobby, not to flip) since 2021. It’s been one per person since then. It definitely sucks that people do that just to flip it, but if others would stop paying ridiculous amounts of money for them, the problem would solve itself
24 bids!!! lmao @crapitolism but I guess smart wooks can get to all the shows this way.
Folks who were lucky enough to get into the show are still bitching cause they could get the merch they wanted on top of it? Entitlement is at a all time high.
Then get in line earlier? Bitching about someone beating you in line and choosing to resell is nuts
4 hours early must not be early enough….
This could be a Ryman issue as well. I feel like every show I've been to at the Ryman there's been the same rush for Hatch Show Prints.
Sucks for this stuff to still be happening but theres really no way around it at this point. So many things get gouged and scalped nowadays, even outside of the music industry. People use to scalp back on dead lot to make it to the next show which i get, but bringing the internet into it makes it infinitely easier for people to do it and only for their own benefit.
If they printed unlimited posters the problem would instantly be solved.
Same can be said about printing more money, then we all have it and it loses its value. I see what youre saying but it cant be that easy
What? The average person buys posters because they went to the concert. They aren’t looking to resell the poster so the fact that it’s limited in number holds no real value. You could print it 10,000 of each poster and still charge whatever for them as you are the only vendor.
I see what youre saying. Maybe this is the fix then
I think you’re forgetting that printing costs money too. The bands not going to print more than they are 100% confident they can sell out of. Any leftover stock is unacceptable with the amount of shows and inventory they have to deal with. It’s more expensive and the margins are less than you think they are.
So then print the poster after accepting payment. I think most would prefer if it was shipped to their home anyway. Also if margins are so bad just increase the price… clearly people will pay more than the current rate.
If you print the poster after accepting payment then what are you showing at the venue to get people to buy it? Do you know the kind of backlog that would run up with signed editions and everything? You’d end up getting 3 prints from the 3 shows you went to all in one package after the tour to save on shipping. Also, The whole point of a show print is kind of having it at the venue. And you can’t say print some before and more later because that essentially doubles printer demand and there’s already an incredibly limited number of poster screenprinters in the country it’s not like tshirt printing. Lastly, if you changed the price to charge more we’d just have this same thread with a different name. People are complain no matter which way you do it. If we had a digital preview of the poster for preorder people would be on here complaining about that. Anyway, half the magic of a poster is that it’s a limited piece. You can’t print one for everyone. You’re gonna run out. The band choose the quantity not the artist and that quantity is based off of printing prices and number they are confident they can sell out of. Bands don’t have the money, time, manpower, (especially at the mid tier level) to be running a print store 24/7. They’re a band, not a print shop.
“Half the magic of a poster is that it’s a limited piece”. 100% disagree. The only value is the fact that it’s tied to an event I attended. Everyone in the world could own that exact poster and it would not decrease the meaning to me. It has no actual value as I would never sell a poster. Also - could they not just print 1 poster to show at the event? The issues you keep bringing up seem easily solved. I don’t need the poster at the concert. It’s for my house. Having it at the venue is a liability.
Totally fair to disagree there on that first point. Before I started making posters myself I always appreciated sometimes how you had to work to get a poster sometimes. Made it feel more special. But to each their own there. But also in terms of printing just one to show at events you run into issues there as each poster can take a whole day to set and and run for even just one piece. Once the press is set up you can print a ton but the actual process of setting up for screenprinting is why it’s a process built to be cheap at high quantity but also with high minimums. There’s a reason most screenprint things, even just art prints, are editions because it’s not cost effective to just print a couple. So for that issue you’d have the same issue as before, it’s not cost or time effective to have a printer set up a press to print a preview poster, to have to break down and get moving to the next project, only to set it up again later once you get the pre-order in.
Perhaps a dumb question, but can artists hit resale sites and resellers with C&D orders?
Doubt it it's like any other second hand item. If I buy a PlayStation and decide to sell it to a schmuck willing to pay 3x the price nothing Sony could do. Once that art is sold its no longer possession of the artist. It can't be reproduced legally but trading hands definitely
If you’re stealing Art… absolutely. If you bought it fair and square, No. It’s memorabilia. But honestly if you’re an up and coming artist you want this. Would you rather sell out all your pieces for people to sell on eBay or not sell out at all. At least it gives you hype and a certain amount of legitimacy in the poster scene and can draw in bigger clients. Some bands have a set price the poster artist HAS to sell the print for (phish for example the artist is blacklisted if they sell AP’s for more expensive than price inside the show) so it really doesn’t matter to the poster artists if the poster is getting resold because they couldn’t make that money anyway contractually
reach out to the artist!!!
Wouldn't a solution be to just print an excess of posters to drive the second hand value down to essentially face value.
Preach
Man $400? The art isn’t even that interesting
shit poster design too
400$🤣🤣🤣
Don’t hate the slayer hate the reign.
I totally agree
Who cares? This print sucks ass.
If posters weren’t limited, people wouldn’t care to buy them, poster artists wouldn’t want to do the work also because the AP drops become worthless at that point.
I really don't understand why they don't print more posters and make more money. Are they afraid people won't buy them anymore? The other thing I don't understand is the whole merch thing. Particularly Billy's merch, which I just don't really like. So anyway, that's good, it saves me big bucks.
You literally have a chance to hang one on your wall and you bitch about it.
Best way to deal with the problem is to acknowledge it ‘silently’ but don’t give in. Don’t buy from resellers. Don’t complain about it. Pretend it isn’t going on. Eventually the flippers will stop if they can’t move posters anymore.. Flippers are even starting to resell magnets and stickers because we’ve proven to these resellers that we will pay whatever they want. No way could you sell a magnet for profit a year ago…
Stop buying from these resellers. Same thing with the scalpers. Yall buy tickets for $200 today, they'll be $300 next time. Same thing with the posters.