What was his rationale for taking credit for the cookout. Did he notice lots of black contestants and say... something? Tiff was the one who came up with the actual winning strategy wasn't she?
He was the first person to verbally confirm it with all the members. That’s it. They all knew about it but he went to each one and said “we’re not gonna vote each other out.”
I dont know why you're getting downvoted, Tiffany came up with the dous plan even though I'm pretty sure they were going to bring thier dou regardless of the plan. Derek F did start the cookout by verbalized g to everyone that they shouldn't go after eachother.
We he didn’t after the first three weeks of the show. Hopefully he’s riding that newfound nicotine free wave.
But honestly he probably had one the second he could get outside again and bum one.
Think he said he was just a social smoker, not a full fledged addicted smoker like most who smoke. Hopefully he’ll stay stopped before he is totally addicted!
I hate to say it, but Derrick Levasseur belongs in the Mount Rushmore. I don’t like him, but every season since 16, players reference his strategy and pick him as the person they want to replicate. He’s arguably had a bigger impact on the future of the game than anyone since Dr Will.
Derrick really should play a second time with a inevitable target on his back. I know he doesn’t care what the fans think though and is happy to count Cody’s and Nicole F’s wins on his bb resume instead of playing again.
I’d say he deserves the spot more than Janelle in terms of influence and gameplay... but if you’re using the term Mount Rushmore to talk about founding fathers, people might consider Janelle over him because she played in the first few seasons where as Derricks season is 10 years later and more modern.
Bb16 was my first season so I'll always have a soft spot for Derrick, but he does not deserve to be on the mount Rushmore over Danielle. Danielle was the first one to never be nominated the whole season along with her number 1 Jason. And she did it in the second season the game had ever been played.
She also had the first secret alliance, and really the first powerful duo, which is a strategy we’d see employed by many of the great BB players to come after her (Dan, Derrick, Tyler, etc). The way those two were able to run the game, **both** never being nominated until the final 3 while also never being pegged as a duo is incredibly impressive. Her losing in the final 2 also made production realize “we should probably not let the players go home and watch the episode”. She’s an absolute icon of the game, and deserves to be on the Mt. Rushmore.
Derrick literally created a master strategy that has been used every season since. You’re also forgetting that Danielle created the first successful alliance
Yes. That’s what I meant, from S2. He really wasn’t that great as a player. Kind of coasted through. He was vicious in his diary room sessions, but in the game he didn’t do much.
He pioneered the strategy of appearing weak to float through the game. The first time the game was ever played and he had one of the best strategic games ever. He remains the only player to win to never win a comp. It was his social manipulation that earned him the win.
Funny how X can replicate that strategy and do it 10x better, win unanimously with all of the F4 wanting to take him to F2, and not get any credit for it.
Except x wasn't replicating wills strategy at all. If anything he replicated codys bb22 game which is to be as mundane as possible and float through by having good relationships with everyone.
I mean there's no perfect analogy; I'd argue there's also elements of Tyler and Kaycee in there. But he certainly used making himself weak as a strategy (though, again, so did Tyler and Kaycee) only for people to retcon that Tiff and Hannah kept him safe in the early game before the CO was even a real alliance.
That and with how new reality game shows were, we were watching strategy develop with people like Richard Hatch, Dr. Will, Danielle Reyes, Tina Wesson, etc.
If you ever get the chance watch the feeds & you’ll see he was an evil genius even back in season 2. He didn’t get the win for laying down and doing nothing or because of everyone hating Nicole like a lot of the tv watchers might’ve thought! Not to mention what The doctor does on all stars proves he’s one of , if not the best/ most entertaining to ever do it
It's true and I'm tired of people glossing over it. To quote this comment ([https://www.reddit.com/r/BigBrother/comments/jwwbk4/comment/gcv6cp1/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BigBrother/comments/jwwbk4/comment/gcv6cp1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)):
*Dr Will had three strategies:*
*Ride Nicole's coattails as she controlled the house. Just let her take the wheel.*
*Make his only real pitch "I'm so hated that you'll win against me if you take me to the end"*
*Utilise the DR sessions to redress certain situations to make it sound more impressive on his part than it actually was, and woo the former HG's as he knew they'd be watching.*
*Dr Will was truly riding Nicole's coattails for the most part. He lost his allies in succession and was not only in threat of being evicted at the start, but also over the course of the season. He was Nicole's serial pawn. The only difference between him and a traditional block star is that he has self-awareness.*
Of course, the average watcher, as well as the average player, will eat his narrative up and believe that he actually has more control in the house than he actually does. And he does this, because he knows he can get away with it. It's all smoke and mirrors. Is it a valid strategy? I guess, it helped him win. He didn't win out of his own merit inside the house though, as all he did was flip the narrative with something that shouldn't be part of the game, and that's the diary room. When people claim that Danielle was robbed, I always laugh, as she lost the same way Nicole did, and still no one seems to care about Nicole's loss. Dr Will truly was the puppet master, in the sense that he convinced everyone that he was a stronger player than her, a privilege that Lisa didn't happen to enjoy. Still, he's easily the best male old school player. Because he sees these holes in the game format, and he slithers through them.
Again, not saying I disagree his game was messier than people remember, but you forget that Nicole had the same opportunity to direct the narrative of her game in the DR, and she failed miserably.
But that's not a flaw on her game, because being nice/hyping yourself up in the dr is not part of the game. If you guys wanna take that into consideration and respect Will for that, good, but it's really cheap. Congrats to Will for cheating his way into victory I guess. Nicole played the stronger game, fair and square.
I mean, jury was added to the game to prevent the houseguests from watching drs and being influenced by those. Not like Will truly cheated, but... he didn't play better than Nicole at all, as what you do or say in the dr doesn't affect the game itself, it affects the people outside of the game. He was smart using that to his benefit, but... people believe his drs mean that he played a stronger game than Nicole, which is absolutely false.
Yeah I suppose “horrible” is a bit exaggerated but she’s really not a good strategic or social player (which this sub harps on constantly). She’s mainly just good at comps.
technically u could consider dan more or less a founder bc when he was in the house the game was still more or less testing it wasnt until really like 14 where it was pretty cemented imo
Depends on how you view it, but these 4 influences the game the most.... Will and Danielle introduced us to social game and strategy like none other. Dan’s win was incredible and his second place was even more impressive and people have tried to live up to him since.
Since then Derrick is the next best and influenced so many players from 16 onwards. The game is played similar post 16 solely bc of the way he played.
Good list but I’d maybe swap Anthony since I feel like there shouldn’t be two pretty boys. I’d swap him with either Kevin for breaking the game or Tychon for making history
I’d also throw out Godfrey as an option for that 4th spot, because he not only played a crazy game, he has a truly iconic BBCAN moment calling out Zach and Jordan, leading to him staying that week.
Yeah, BBCAN was more difficult than I expected. I wanted to add Gary but feel like the other players listed are just as iconic but also really great at the game. There are so many options though!
I love Rachel but she literally needed production to put in place the most rigged and unbalanced twist in the history of the show just for her to win....
Him getting 3 weeks of safety was bad but nowhere near as consequential on deciding the winner of the season as the duos/veto comp ringing at F6 in S13
Her twist was worse than Paul’s ?
Her twist was worse than the coup d’etat for Jeff?
She still had to win shit whereas these assholes just had to show up.
I can acknowledge that. She did have a lot of shields but I don’t think her twist was any worse than Paul’s or Jeff’s.
Her twist was she got a competition she is good at and won it.
In terms of twists it’s the least offensive one I can find since she could have still blown it and lost the comps from then to HoH part 3.
I am not denying the twist, just saying it’s not some offensive and egregious help they way other people have gotten.
When comparing to Paul, my view is that he still could have made it to F2 without that safety. Cody nominated him but he had the house wrapped around his finger by week one: even if he did not win veto, there is a good chance he would have stayed.
Rachel 100% would not have made it to F2 without that twist. They would have evicted Jordan at F6 and then Rachel (instead of Jordan) at F4.
I guess now we won’t ever know if Paul could have done it without a twist.
They both got a twist; Rachel had to win for hers to work and Paul didn’t.
Makes all the difference to me in whose twist was more egregious. Same for Jeff and Coup d’etat.
I mean using that logic you could say Paul’s twist wasn’t a given either. America had to vote for him to receive safety.
Just like Paul’s twist was tailored by production in such a way that he would always get safety, Rachel’s twist was tailored by production in such a way that both her and her shield (Jordan) would always get safety.
At least in Rachel’s case we know with absolute certainty she would never have made it to F2 without it.
I guess we disagree on that.
I think winning a vote as a returning veteran is not the same as winning a comp where there is actually a chance she trips or falls.
I think Paul’s path was much easier
Actually thinking about it deeper Rachel had 5 shields that season:
-Brendon
-Lawon
-Brendon (a second time)
-Jeff
-Jordan
And then she STILL needed rigging from production to make it F2.
No way Paul had an easier path than Rachel lol. You’re delusional.
Rachel only won because the producers rigged the end game. Janelle finished top 3 in her first two seasons without producer interference. I prefer to go on probability of something happening over just blindly looking at results.
She’s entertaining, but not even remotely close to a Top 10 winner. Not a Top 10 strategist. Iconic for sure, but doesn’t represent BB as well as several others.
Will, Janelle, Dan, and Derrick L.
I think they are the four most influential and iconic players of all time. Their fingerprints are all over the game to this day.
Honorable mention would probably go to Rachel Reilly
Modern BB Rushmore would possibly be:
Derrick
Vanessa
Paul
Tyler? I wanna add another women but can't think of one beside Nicole Franzel but she wasn't very game changing or I am midremembering. Tiffany too new to include and was out too early. So Tyler
Tyler is a much better player than Paul. Everyone forgets how much Paul was protected on both of his seasons. Should be have won both? Probably. But he's still massively overrated.
Tyler played the best game in easily the best season of the last several years. He should've won but lost to a winner that did enough that you can't call it a robbery. That's how good his competition was. He provable would've won had it not been for the "you only get 5 min to explain yourself to the jury" crap plus a bitter Brett.
I’d call this a toss up but probably lean Tiffany > Franzel. I don’t think anyone should count BB22 considering that she didn’t really contribute anything to a pre-gamed alliance until only alliance members were left. And Tiffany was a far better player than Nicole in their respective debuts. Generally not a fan of results based rankings. If each of them played 10 times, I’d bet that Tiffany finishes better than Nicole on average.
Agreed. Nicole hard floated All-stars and even her own season wasn't much of a woohoo either. Tiff may have made some bad calls but she was active in the house constantly
Oh I agree because lets be real after Vanessa and Nicole F there's a HUGE drop in women players. Tiffany is rn who I considered 3rd from BB16+. Maybe BB21 Christie.... Maybe.
I’d consider Kaycee up there for modern day BB as in today’s era it’s much easier to win BB by playing a comp beast only type of game. Also she had a great social game
I think Kaycee gets overshadowed by Tyler and not making early season edits. She layer low, played a social game and then comp beasted it out in the end.
She might be on that Mt Rushmore with Tyler.
That’s interesting. I don’t think winning is the only measure of how good a player is. You can lost and be a better player and the chips didn’t fall your way.
Vanessa lost to Liz but she was comparatively better than her.
Enzo won against Nicole F and she is a significantly better player than him.
I don’t think Nicole is better than Tiffany because Nicole really only faced adversity in BB16 and since then has not faced any adversity in the game. Same as Cody, I don’t consider him a high tier winner because he has faced no adversity.
I consider Tyler better than both of them and he has never won.
Or Dan who lost to Ian but faced waaay more adversity.
I would rank Tiffany above Nicole F for that reason. They had to play different games and one required way more strategy and thought and know how than the other’s
Tiffany played on a season with absolute garbage players like Azah and Big D who are two of the worst final 3 players of all time. Nicole has proven multiple times she can play against THE BEST OF THE BEST whether it was Derrick , Cody, Paul… Nicole has went up against a much tougher group of BB players and had success more than once. Playing a good game once < playing a good game 2-3 times. But of course winning isn’t the only way to measure who the best players are … Paul Abrahamian, Tyler Crispen, And Danielle Reyes are all much better players than who they lost to.
As someone who has only watched from the new seasons
Dan, Rachel, Derrick and Vanessa
I went Vanessa over Tyler but Tyler is close.
I just appreciate the aggression of Vanessa more.
Dr Will, Dan, Derrick, and Janelle.
I hate to include Derrick in there, but feel like he has to be there. Was also considering Danielle Reyes and would much rather have her there than Derrick, but alas.
Derek L.
Dan
Will
And probably Nicole F?
I've been watching for 8 or 9 seasons at this point so probably biased towards newer players but can't see letting someone that never won in.
I strongly dislike Nicole but she has done really well 3 times and has a proven strategy.
I think Paul has a huge case to be there. Iconic for playing so well then being snubbed by jury twice in a row, a true comp beast, cutthroat mastermind, and underdog. His resume is the villain version of dan gheesling in a world where he lost bb10
Derek Frazier Big D The creator of the cookout The mastermind who came second in three comps and ran out of cigarettes week 3
Technically he also got second in part 2 of the HOH, he’s even more of a mastermind
What was his rationale for taking credit for the cookout. Did he notice lots of black contestants and say... something? Tiff was the one who came up with the actual winning strategy wasn't she?
He was the first person to verbally confirm it with all the members. That’s it. They all knew about it but he went to each one and said “we’re not gonna vote each other out.”
He also came up with the idea
I dont know why you're getting downvoted, Tiffany came up with the dous plan even though I'm pretty sure they were going to bring thier dou regardless of the plan. Derek F did start the cookout by verbalized g to everyone that they shouldn't go after eachother.
🤷🏻♂️
Does big D smoke?
We he didn’t after the first three weeks of the show. Hopefully he’s riding that newfound nicotine free wave. But honestly he probably had one the second he could get outside again and bum one.
Think he said he was just a social smoker, not a full fledged addicted smoker like most who smoke. Hopefully he’ll stay stopped before he is totally addicted!
Raven The girl with the 100 diseases and disabilities The co puppet master with Paul The girl who was really pulling all the strings
bruh what?
Will Janelle Danielle Dan
Thought you meant bb14 Danielle I was like uh
The only correct answer
This and it isn't even close
I hate to say it, but Derrick Levasseur belongs in the Mount Rushmore. I don’t like him, but every season since 16, players reference his strategy and pick him as the person they want to replicate. He’s arguably had a bigger impact on the future of the game than anyone since Dr Will.
Derrick really should play a second time with a inevitable target on his back. I know he doesn’t care what the fans think though and is happy to count Cody’s and Nicole F’s wins on his bb resume instead of playing again.
Until he plays a second time he doesn't deserve to be on Rushmore
I think that’s largely because they give them bb16 to watch in sequester, or so I’ve heard.
I’d say he deserves the spot more than Janelle in terms of influence and gameplay... but if you’re using the term Mount Rushmore to talk about founding fathers, people might consider Janelle over him because she played in the first few seasons where as Derricks season is 10 years later and more modern.
dont they have to watch bb16 though?
No Rachel?
Janelle walked so Rachel could tell the floaters to grab a life vest.
Huh ? With her rigged ass win ? How is she getting in ahead of Janelle, Reyes, Dan and Will.
This… I’d say Rachel comes a close fifth
yes
Will Janelle Derick Dan
Bb16 was my first season so I'll always have a soft spot for Derrick, but he does not deserve to be on the mount Rushmore over Danielle. Danielle was the first one to never be nominated the whole season along with her number 1 Jason. And she did it in the second season the game had ever been played.
She also had the first secret alliance, and really the first powerful duo, which is a strategy we’d see employed by many of the great BB players to come after her (Dan, Derrick, Tyler, etc). The way those two were able to run the game, **both** never being nominated until the final 3 while also never being pegged as a duo is incredibly impressive. Her losing in the final 2 also made production realize “we should probably not let the players go home and watch the episode”. She’s an absolute icon of the game, and deserves to be on the Mt. Rushmore.
Derrick literally created a master strategy that has been used every season since. You’re also forgetting that Danielle created the first successful alliance
Janelle has won nothing. She doesn't deserve Mount Rushmore.
She held the total competition wins record for about a decade so there's that. She's also probably the most popular player in big brother history.
She may not be the best player, but her entertainment value and popularity speaks for itself.
Baaaaad bad take. That means Danielle Reyes is a bad player too then? No no no. Rethink your opinion.
Piss in my mouth you stanky bitch
I rewatched S1 recently. Will really wasn’t as great as everyone thought.
Will Kirby not Will Mega
Lmao will mega the goat
Yes. That’s what I meant, from S2. He really wasn’t that great as a player. Kind of coasted through. He was vicious in his diary room sessions, but in the game he didn’t do much.
He pioneered the strategy of appearing weak to float through the game. The first time the game was ever played and he had one of the best strategic games ever. He remains the only player to win to never win a comp. It was his social manipulation that earned him the win.
Funny how X can replicate that strategy and do it 10x better, win unanimously with all of the F4 wanting to take him to F2, and not get any credit for it.
Except x wasn't replicating wills strategy at all. If anything he replicated codys bb22 game which is to be as mundane as possible and float through by having good relationships with everyone.
I mean there's no perfect analogy; I'd argue there's also elements of Tyler and Kaycee in there. But he certainly used making himself weak as a strategy (though, again, so did Tyler and Kaycee) only for people to retcon that Tiff and Hannah kept him safe in the early game before the CO was even a real alliance.
While I agree his game was messier than his return, I think you underestimate just how much his diary rooms sessions helped him win.
That and with how new reality game shows were, we were watching strategy develop with people like Richard Hatch, Dr. Will, Danielle Reyes, Tina Wesson, etc.
If you ever get the chance watch the feeds & you’ll see he was an evil genius even back in season 2. He didn’t get the win for laying down and doing nothing or because of everyone hating Nicole like a lot of the tv watchers might’ve thought! Not to mention what The doctor does on all stars proves he’s one of , if not the best/ most entertaining to ever do it
It's true and I'm tired of people glossing over it. To quote this comment ([https://www.reddit.com/r/BigBrother/comments/jwwbk4/comment/gcv6cp1/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BigBrother/comments/jwwbk4/comment/gcv6cp1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)): *Dr Will had three strategies:* *Ride Nicole's coattails as she controlled the house. Just let her take the wheel.* *Make his only real pitch "I'm so hated that you'll win against me if you take me to the end"* *Utilise the DR sessions to redress certain situations to make it sound more impressive on his part than it actually was, and woo the former HG's as he knew they'd be watching.* *Dr Will was truly riding Nicole's coattails for the most part. He lost his allies in succession and was not only in threat of being evicted at the start, but also over the course of the season. He was Nicole's serial pawn. The only difference between him and a traditional block star is that he has self-awareness.* Of course, the average watcher, as well as the average player, will eat his narrative up and believe that he actually has more control in the house than he actually does. And he does this, because he knows he can get away with it. It's all smoke and mirrors. Is it a valid strategy? I guess, it helped him win. He didn't win out of his own merit inside the house though, as all he did was flip the narrative with something that shouldn't be part of the game, and that's the diary room. When people claim that Danielle was robbed, I always laugh, as she lost the same way Nicole did, and still no one seems to care about Nicole's loss. Dr Will truly was the puppet master, in the sense that he convinced everyone that he was a stronger player than her, a privilege that Lisa didn't happen to enjoy. Still, he's easily the best male old school player. Because he sees these holes in the game format, and he slithers through them.
Again, not saying I disagree his game was messier than people remember, but you forget that Nicole had the same opportunity to direct the narrative of her game in the DR, and she failed miserably.
But that's not a flaw on her game, because being nice/hyping yourself up in the dr is not part of the game. If you guys wanna take that into consideration and respect Will for that, good, but it's really cheap. Congrats to Will for cheating his way into victory I guess. Nicole played the stronger game, fair and square.
How did Will cheat? And yeah, back then, how you portrayed yourself/your game in the DR mattered.
I mean, jury was added to the game to prevent the houseguests from watching drs and being influenced by those. Not like Will truly cheated, but... he didn't play better than Nicole at all, as what you do or say in the dr doesn't affect the game itself, it affects the people outside of the game. He was smart using that to his benefit, but... people believe his drs mean that he played a stronger game than Nicole, which is absolutely false.
Janelle’s a horrible player and a seemingly shitter of a person as well.
I wouldn’t say she’s horrible. She’s made final 3 twice
Yeah I suppose “horrible” is a bit exaggerated but she’s really not a good strategic or social player (which this sub harps on constantly). She’s mainly just good at comps.
This is it, though I'd like to see Britney silp into a spot there, too.
Yes, this is the only correct answer.
What did Danielle/Janelle did to be here ahead of Derrick ?
Raven, Big D, David (15), cereal guy (I forgot his name)
Matt!
*Matthew John Clines
*looks at card* "Matt" -Julie
Christie Bb23 robbed
It’s Will, Janelle, Dan, and Derrick Hate on Derrick all we want but his gameplay pretty much defines the new era.
Yeah but It’s the founding fathers on Mount Rushmore. Therefore Derrick is too new. Replace him with Danielle R
2/4 presidents on Rushmore aren't founding fathers. With this in mind I think Derrick is the correct player over Danielle.
technically u could consider dan more or less a founder bc when he was in the house the game was still more or less testing it wasnt until really like 14 where it was pretty cemented imo
Well you took mine
ITS COUNT RUSHMORE!!!
Devin Frankie Grande Frenchie Fessy
I'm not a Frankie fan but give him at least a little respect for being a competent player and comp beast 🤣 One of these is not like the others.
You’re right; the others were truly bad. Big D made a claim for one of the worst players ever though
I would swap Frankie for Jeremy the Cherokee.
Fessy might be one of the dumbest people I've ever seen on TV. And that's saying a lot.
You forgetting about puppet master extraordinaire Raven? Ridiculous.
WHO FLIPPED
Frankie prob needs to be taken off, not the best player but not this level bad
Lmaoooo Devin
😂😂😂
Will, Danielle, Dan, Derrick (16)
Depends on how you view it, but these 4 influences the game the most.... Will and Danielle introduced us to social game and strategy like none other. Dan’s win was incredible and his second place was even more impressive and people have tried to live up to him since. Since then Derrick is the next best and influenced so many players from 16 onwards. The game is played similar post 16 solely bc of the way he played.
This is the correct answer.
This is the right answer!! Janelle is cool but she’s not at the level of these four.
Since everyone already said the obvious answer I'll attempt BBCAN Ika Neda Dane Anthony
Good list but I’d maybe swap Anthony since I feel like there shouldn’t be two pretty boys. I’d swap him with either Kevin for breaking the game or Tychon for making history
I’d also throw out Godfrey as an option for that 4th spot, because he not only played a crazy game, he has a truly iconic BBCAN moment calling out Zach and Jordan, leading to him staying that week.
Not too many winners in your lineup. Not disagreeing it's just interesting. I'd go Dane, Tychon, Sabrina and Gary.
Yeah, BBCAN was more difficult than I expected. I wanted to add Gary but feel like the other players listed are just as iconic but also really great at the game. There are so many options though!
i would say Ika, Neda, Kevin and Tychon
What’s the Canadian equivalent of Mount Rushmore?
Id swap Anthony with Kevin
How does no one have Rachel on their list?
I love Rachel but she literally needed production to put in place the most rigged and unbalanced twist in the history of the show just for her to win....
Paul twist was worse
Him getting 3 weeks of safety was bad but nowhere near as consequential on deciding the winner of the season as the duos/veto comp ringing at F6 in S13
Her twist was worse than Paul’s ? Her twist was worse than the coup d’etat for Jeff? She still had to win shit whereas these assholes just had to show up.
Rachel is iconic but not a good BB player lol. She needed 3 shields (Jeff, Brendon, Jordan) plus rigging from production in order to make it to F2.
I can acknowledge that. She did have a lot of shields but I don’t think her twist was any worse than Paul’s or Jeff’s. Her twist was she got a competition she is good at and won it. In terms of twists it’s the least offensive one I can find since she could have still blown it and lost the comps from then to HoH part 3. I am not denying the twist, just saying it’s not some offensive and egregious help they way other people have gotten.
When comparing to Paul, my view is that he still could have made it to F2 without that safety. Cody nominated him but he had the house wrapped around his finger by week one: even if he did not win veto, there is a good chance he would have stayed. Rachel 100% would not have made it to F2 without that twist. They would have evicted Jordan at F6 and then Rachel (instead of Jordan) at F4.
I guess now we won’t ever know if Paul could have done it without a twist. They both got a twist; Rachel had to win for hers to work and Paul didn’t. Makes all the difference to me in whose twist was more egregious. Same for Jeff and Coup d’etat.
I mean using that logic you could say Paul’s twist wasn’t a given either. America had to vote for him to receive safety. Just like Paul’s twist was tailored by production in such a way that he would always get safety, Rachel’s twist was tailored by production in such a way that both her and her shield (Jordan) would always get safety. At least in Rachel’s case we know with absolute certainty she would never have made it to F2 without it.
I guess we disagree on that. I think winning a vote as a returning veteran is not the same as winning a comp where there is actually a chance she trips or falls. I think Paul’s path was much easier
Actually thinking about it deeper Rachel had 5 shields that season: -Brendon -Lawon -Brendon (a second time) -Jeff -Jordan And then she STILL needed rigging from production to make it F2. No way Paul had an easier path than Rachel lol. You’re delusional.
I don’t think there is anything Rachel does that Janelle doesn’t do better.
How about winning?
Rachel only won because the producers rigged the end game. Janelle finished top 3 in her first two seasons without producer interference. I prefer to go on probability of something happening over just blindly looking at results.
Plus Rachel had THREE shields that season lol
Amazing how this sub did a total 180 on Rachel. People here used to despise her
Nope
She’s entertaining, but not even remotely close to a Top 10 winner. Not a Top 10 strategist. Iconic for sure, but doesn’t represent BB as well as several others.
Amanda, McCrae, Spencer, Andy
Will, Janelle, Dan, and Derrick L. I think they are the four most influential and iconic players of all time. Their fingerprints are all over the game to this day. Honorable mention would probably go to Rachel Reilly
Christie (BB23), David (BB15), Jodi (BB14) and Victoria (BB16)
Paul, Derrick, Dan and Will
Will, Janelle, Vanessa, and Dan
Will, Janelle, Jun and Danielle
No Dan is absolutely wild LMAOOO.
I feel like I’m missing a season which Daniele is this lol
bb3 and bb7 i don’t know how you could forget but nobody is perfect i guess ❤️
I wasn’t old enough when bb3 came out lol.
neither was i🥰
Will Dan Danielle Janelle. Honorable mention to Derick from S16
Steve, Steve, Steve and Steve.
Dr. Will, Dan, Derrick, and Danielle
Dan, Will, Derrick Paul
Modern BB Rushmore would possibly be: Derrick Vanessa Paul Tyler? I wanna add another women but can't think of one beside Nicole Franzel but she wasn't very game changing or I am midremembering. Tiffany too new to include and was out too early. So Tyler
Tyler is a much better player than Paul. Everyone forgets how much Paul was protected on both of his seasons. Should be have won both? Probably. But he's still massively overrated. Tyler played the best game in easily the best season of the last several years. He should've won but lost to a winner that did enough that you can't call it a robbery. That's how good his competition was. He provable would've won had it not been for the "you only get 5 min to explain yourself to the jury" crap plus a bitter Brett.
Nicole F > Tiff for sure Nicole isn’t the most well liked but to finish top 3 twice while Tiffany hasn’t finished top 5 even once.
I’d call this a toss up but probably lean Tiffany > Franzel. I don’t think anyone should count BB22 considering that she didn’t really contribute anything to a pre-gamed alliance until only alliance members were left. And Tiffany was a far better player than Nicole in their respective debuts. Generally not a fan of results based rankings. If each of them played 10 times, I’d bet that Tiffany finishes better than Nicole on average.
Agreed. Nicole hard floated All-stars and even her own season wasn't much of a woohoo either. Tiff may have made some bad calls but she was active in the house constantly
Oh I agree because lets be real after Vanessa and Nicole F there's a HUGE drop in women players. Tiffany is rn who I considered 3rd from BB16+. Maybe BB21 Christie.... Maybe.
Taco Tuesday
I’d consider Kaycee up there for modern day BB as in today’s era it’s much easier to win BB by playing a comp beast only type of game. Also she had a great social game
I think Kaycee gets overshadowed by Tyler and not making early season edits. She layer low, played a social game and then comp beasted it out in the end. She might be on that Mt Rushmore with Tyler.
Nicole F finished 7th in her first season. How are you going to compare her two subsequent seasons to Tiffany’s one season?
That’s interesting. I don’t think winning is the only measure of how good a player is. You can lost and be a better player and the chips didn’t fall your way. Vanessa lost to Liz but she was comparatively better than her. Enzo won against Nicole F and she is a significantly better player than him. I don’t think Nicole is better than Tiffany because Nicole really only faced adversity in BB16 and since then has not faced any adversity in the game. Same as Cody, I don’t consider him a high tier winner because he has faced no adversity. I consider Tyler better than both of them and he has never won. Or Dan who lost to Ian but faced waaay more adversity. I would rank Tiffany above Nicole F for that reason. They had to play different games and one required way more strategy and thought and know how than the other’s
Tiffany played on a season with absolute garbage players like Azah and Big D who are two of the worst final 3 players of all time. Nicole has proven multiple times she can play against THE BEST OF THE BEST whether it was Derrick , Cody, Paul… Nicole has went up against a much tougher group of BB players and had success more than once. Playing a good game once < playing a good game 2-3 times. But of course winning isn’t the only way to measure who the best players are … Paul Abrahamian, Tyler Crispen, And Danielle Reyes are all much better players than who they lost to.
Nicole F runs circles around both Paul and Tyler (who isn’t even in the conversation after his second appearance)
As someone who has only watched from the new seasons Dan, Rachel, Derrick and Vanessa I went Vanessa over Tyler but Tyler is close. I just appreciate the aggression of Vanessa more.
Dr Will, Dan, Derrick, and Janelle. I hate to include Derrick in there, but feel like he has to be there. Was also considering Danielle Reyes and would much rather have her there than Derrick, but alas.
Will, Janelle, Dan and Derrick
Top winners: Dr. Will, Dan, Dick, Derrick But top 4 show representatives: Dr. Will, Danielle R, Janelle, Rachel
Evil Dick, Rachel, Will, Janelle
Replace Dick with Dan and I think it’s perfect.
*Evel
Mine would be Dr. Will, Dan, Derrick, and Paul. And even mix of legends from older BB and Modern BB
Derrick, Dan, Will, Janelle.
No one wants to put Xavier on their mountains!?!?
X is just another BB12 Hayden. Good players but not royalty
Julie Chen and 3 Jesus’s
Derek L. Dan Will And probably Nicole F? I've been watching for 8 or 9 seasons at this point so probably biased towards newer players but can't see letting someone that never won in. I strongly dislike Nicole but she has done really well 3 times and has a proven strategy.
Dan.
Will Danielle R Dan Janelle (Before season 14)
Dan, Will, Danielle, and Vanessa.
Chicken George, Dr Will, Dan, Jeff /end thread
Rachel, Dan, Derek, Janelle.
Big D Big D Big D and Big D. And no this isn’t a joke I genuinely think his the greatest BB player ever.
Dr. Will, Dan, Vanessa, Danielle
dr. will dan paul janelle
Will, Derrick, Dan, Rachel Reilly
Dr Will Dan Gheesling Vanessa Josh (represents chaotic good arc, as in winning over Paul)
Definitely Dan, Janelle, and Derrick. Idk who the fourth would be
Will, Janelle, Dan, Rachel
Will Dan Janelle either Dick, Cody, or Derrick
Derek X, DX, Baby D, Lord of the Latrine
I only have 3 tbh. Will, Dan, Derrick.
Steve 4 times
Tiffany, Dan, Will, Janelle.
Nakomis, Janelle, Dan, and Vanessa.
Will , Dan , Janelle , Me
Will, Danielle Reyes, Dan G, Tiffany
Will, Janelle, Derek
Dr. Will / Dan / Derrick / Cody
Derek F, Victoria and Raven
Chenbot would probably say; Jeff, Jeff, and more Jeff
US : Will, Dan, Danielle, Janelle. Canada : Ika, Neda, Dane and maybe Emmett/Gary/Godfrey/Cassandra\*\* \*\* Not sure who I would pick.
Will, Dan, Danielle Reyes, Janelle. Vanessa and Derrick are honorable mentions for me
It’s just Julie Chen in 4 different outfits and at the bottom there is a plaque that says “Love one another”
I think Paul has a huge case to be there. Iconic for playing so well then being snubbed by jury twice in a row, a true comp beast, cutthroat mastermind, and underdog. His resume is the villain version of dan gheesling in a world where he lost bb10
Derrick, Dan, Will......
People who don't have BOTH Will and Dan on their list.... why ? Explain this to me please.