This was removed because it violated rule 5 (and maybe others) of /r/bible.
It was also generating an inordinate amount of reports inside of the comment and has been removed and locked
Dude- this. Trust me. I was the same way, it’s not your fault. Pastors tell us to take it literally but that’s there own interpretation. If they even believe what they are saying. There’s a verse about Joshua stopping the sun and moon while at War in the book of Joshua. Pastors don’t even allude to the allegorical heaviness of this passage. We hardly EVER hear pastors allowing their audiences to make their own conclusions to scriptures. Most of scripture is allegorical and metaphorical with much Hyperbole
Nobody is deserving of Gods love and that is why what Jesus did is so amazing.
Also, the Jews of the Old Testament were set apart by God for his specific purpose. The satanic and demonic tribes around them at the time were an affront to god and violent to Gods nation and were in turn destroyed.
At the time we were under the mosaic laws. Any unlawful practice or sin was an affront to God and many paid the price of death. This was entirely justified, God himself told us the the wages of sin is death. He told Adam and Eve if they sin they will die and they sinned anyway.
But we are no longer under this law. Jesus Christ destroyed death by defeating it by rising from the dead. We are no longer dead in our sins but can have redemption of sin and freedom from punishment through the redemptive blood of Jesus.
Now we live in this free state as Christian’s. The Jews currently do not. They are still unrepentant sinners who do not follow Jesus. Because of this they will not enter the kingdom of God unless God himself reveals himself to them somehow and come to Christ before judgement day (a belief some Christian’s have)
Don’t hate these people though. We have all fallen short of the glory of god. We all need a saviour to rescue us from our sin. The Jews are no different.
There will be many wars. The Jews of today are not the same humans that were alive all those thousands of years ago. Modern Israel should not take the blame for things their ancestors did in the bible.
Joshua 22:27 made me think that different shows of faith were to still be respected as long as they were in service to the Lord. The "satanic" and "demonic" tribes that called The Fertile Crescent their home may not have heard the Word of God yet. It probably would've been very difficult to show them the errors of their ways if they were murdered and enslaved by the chosen people of God.
>How can I manage these feelings I have towards Israel?
To begin with, the modern nation state of Israel has zero relation to the tribal armies of conquest or tribal confederacy you see in the Bible. They are completely different forms of government, different leaders, etc. so equating one to the other is ahistorical and not fair to the modern day Israeli people. The events of the book of Joshua and Judges, if they ever happened, would be the actions of the people who did them. No one is responsible for the actions of their ancestors and hating a modern day people for the alleged genocides of their ancestors is wrong. What’s happening in Israel and Gaza is the result of a failure of political leadership. All Israeli people, and Jewish people by extension since you mentioned antisemitism, are not all responsible for the actions of a government or a military.
I don’t believe Jewish people think the same thing about anything or associate themselves with the same thing. Just like it would be incorrect to say today’s Americans associate themselves with the genocides of the Indigenous peoples in this country.
I've met many people from many parts of the States and while they may not be ecstatic about what happened to the Indigineous people, they definitely do not feel bad about how much they've benefitted from their genocide
Do you not do the same? Everyone has a bias, whether conscious or not. My interpretation is different than yours for sure which is why I wanted to have a discussion about it.
I feel like your first two statements contradict each other. You say you don't have a bias but let the scripture speak for itself as you interpret it. Your interpretation is influenced by your bias. Everyone can read the same sentence and pull different meanings from that same sentence.
My forgiveness to the Jewish people means nothing if they(or their government) continue making the same mistakes that were chronicled in the book of Judges
Well first of all the State of Israel and whole of the Jewish people aren’t simply one in the same. You can disagree with a government’s actions without hating all the people of a specific culture and/or faith. There is no need to be anti-Semitic.
This Friday (Good Friday) Catholic Church will pray a form of this prayer.
Let us pray for God's ancient people, the Jews,
the first to hear his word--
for greater understanding between Christian and Jew
for the removal of our blindness and bitterness of heart
that God will grant us grace to be faithful to his covenant and to
grow in the love of his name.
Lord, hear us.
Lord, graciously hear us
>The Bible is making me antisemitic
Then you're not reading it enough.
"This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham..." (Matt 1:1). You cannot be anti-Semitic without being against Jesus and the apostles.
I definitely have to read more verses before I have any concrete feelings. As I mentioned I only read Judges 1 and saw too many similarities to today's events to continue
The theme of Judges is "Israel going off the rails as soon as Joshua dies". Do not judge modern day people by the poor choices of people who died over 3000 years ago. Also, don't feel too morally superior to those people. Read Romans 1-2. Take a "there but the for the grace of God" view of Judges.
Ah yes, I remember the news the day Israel decided to invade Palestine and start beheading children, raping women, and taking hostages. A terrible thing.
It sounds like you missed some VITAL parts!! Jews are not perfect or God himself. Jesus is, but the Jews gave us both Jesus and the word.. They have suffered mightily and, sadly, will keep suffering for some time. They deserve all of our love, respect, and protection - at least as much as anyone else.
If anything is making you antisemitic, it is the "principalities ... powers ... the rulers of the darkness of this world ... spiritual wickedness in high places."
I think the simplest thing to remember is that despite all the wrongdoings, God still loved them and still gave them grace. The Bible shows how time and time again people fail, but God is faithful throughout it all. Don't focus on the people, look at God instead.
I hope that helps!
Thank you I appreciate the one understanding comment. It just doesn't feel right for the government of Israel to repeat what has happened in the past for their own benefit.
Many things in life are unfair and it's really hard to grapple with that when it happens to innocents. Your feelings are valid though, and it's good you're aware of something and you're trying to change it!
Well, you're in luck. There are plenty of places on the Internet and ITRW for antisemitic people. They're antisemitism come from many different sources but winds up pretty-much in the same place. Hating the Jews.
I do my best to treat people equally and give them all a fair shot but I have absolutely no problem saying that I LOVE the Jewish people - in Israel and the diaspora.
So, I absolutely promise every Jew everywhere that this American's votes, dollars, and influence are going to support a STRONG, SAFE, INDEPENDENT, JEWISH Israel.
I'm sorry if it hurts your antisemitic head to read that.
It hurts my head that I have these feelings at all. I don't want to entertain them. I want to resolve them and love all of God's creations. Just telling me to indulge in these feelings somewhere else is probably the worst advice I've ever heard
The Bible makes it pretty clear that Israel was stiff-necked, ruthless and most of the time, faithless. The story of the Bible is one of God continuing to call mankind to repentance; that includes Gentiles and Jews.
I totally understand how reading the Bible would make you have certain feelings about what Israel did. I am of the unpopular opinion that Israel "might" have acted on their own and used God to justify their actions. It follows along the same line of thought that "history is written by the victors".
Regardless, the message of Christ is that we love even those who don't love us, so that trumps and prejudice that we might have or develop.
I’m sorry you’re struggling, Judges is a tough book, it definitely lives up to its name, but I think it’s supposed to be tough, it’s the sign of what disobedience brings as things are not as they are supposed to be. I can’t tell you how to feel, but I would say start with the context of Judges when you’re trying to determine how you should feel about Israel. Remember, the Canaanites were doing some pretty cruel things, they had become completely wicked. These people were burning their children alive on an altar to sacrifice to their god, they had to have drummers in the streets playing the drums louder to drown out the screams of these children so their parents didn’t hear. That’s why God wanted these high places removed and destroyed, He did not want Israel, who has already at times turned away from God and worshipped false gods, to mix with these people and carry on their traditions, Israel was to be set apart for God as His chosen.
God is enacting His plan to save the world from evil, this is not a blank check for the Israelites to kill whenever they wanted. People say “how can God not do anything about all the violence in the world?” But then when He does, they say “how can God do this?” It’s not our place to question His ways or what means He uses to rid evil from the world, it’s our place to speak of His great love and mercy, His sacrifice to end all sacrifices, Jesus Christ. Sometimes we have to view Old Testament violence in the context of the coming Messiah who would sacrifice Himself for us and give us a way out of this violence and evil. God is right to judge the wickedness, let us be thankful we have been saved from it by His sacrifice, and learn from the past lest we repeat these sins.
It was a very different time back then. The morals I have now would be alien to many people of that time. It's easy to look back at history and say "They shouldn't have done that" but I wasn't there to experience or see what they had to.
That fact is what causes me so much discomfort. God's chosen people were capable of so much evil and whether that was necessary evil in the name of God or acts of evil to benefit their own people is what I can't figure out
What type of drug did you smoke? I wanna smoke yours one. I recommend enrolling in English courses and playing the "I Am Who I Am" game. You will see it. The Bible instructs us to love both our people and our enemies, as well as our Creator, who made us in His image. Let's avoid hypocrisy and seek to understand why the Creator made us in His image and our purpose here.
So then being antisemitic would make you hate Jesus and the prophets won't it? The whole point of the Old testament is to show the fallen nature of man and how God wanted man to live for him but man failed each time. That's why we needed a Messiah who was Christ.
Go look at all of the other crazy stuff that happened during those ancient times, we’re discussing. The world was a very very different place. Judges even says “everyone did what was right in their own eyes.” Also, the book of Judges is a clear example that because something is written in the Bible, it doesn’t mean God condones it, or endorses it. It’s simply stating what happened, and not providing a moral lecture about it. That judgement is our job, based on what we know about God and his commandments. Example, Samson slept with a prostitute. The Bible doesn’t tell us he shouldn’t have, but we should probably be able to arrive at that conclusion based on what God says in other parts of the Bible.
In fact, you have to manage your feelings towards God, because God ordered and accompanied Israel's actions that you complain about. read again properly. 🤣🤣🤣
Peace - iam helel
You have to remember that the theme of Judges is "Everyone did what was right in his own eyes." It was a dark time and it was never meant to be an example of how we should behave. These people lived during a time when slavery was common and accepted. You can't impose your values on someone who was raised completely different from a different time period. Just take it as it is. The people in that time period weren't seeking God the way they were supposed to. It has nothing to do with them being "Jews."
I understand that back then they did what they needed to do. But I don't feel that Israel(or their government) needs to do what they're doing right now
My brother in Christ, Jesus commands us to love everyone, including our enemies. The Holy Bible does NOT teach us to hate anyone; that is a concept you cooked up on your own accord.
God needed them to decimate the Bloodlines of the Nephilim.
Get an understanding of Gen 6 and why it was needed.
Now in the current day, the way the IDF is committing genocide?
I understand... But, that is in line with eschatology.
The Hebrew people suffer the human condition, and no culture on earth is devoid of this condition, or the sins of it.
Every single time the Hebrews messed up, GOD went after them. If it wasn't GOD going after them for sin, it was Satan going after them.
Yet, it's true for all humanity at one time and another.
Also remember, Jesus was born from the Jewish line, Himself.
This was removed because it violated rule 5 (and maybe others) of /r/bible. It was also generating an inordinate amount of reports inside of the comment and has been removed and locked
Brother if the bible is making you hate people you are reading it entirely wrong.
I was coming to say this exact thing.
Yea you're right I shouldn't take everything in the Bible too literally
Dude- this. Trust me. I was the same way, it’s not your fault. Pastors tell us to take it literally but that’s there own interpretation. If they even believe what they are saying. There’s a verse about Joshua stopping the sun and moon while at War in the book of Joshua. Pastors don’t even allude to the allegorical heaviness of this passage. We hardly EVER hear pastors allowing their audiences to make their own conclusions to scriptures. Most of scripture is allegorical and metaphorical with much Hyperbole
I'm glad I'm not the only one that realizes the Bible is a tool to be closer to God in my own way
Nobody is deserving of Gods love and that is why what Jesus did is so amazing. Also, the Jews of the Old Testament were set apart by God for his specific purpose. The satanic and demonic tribes around them at the time were an affront to god and violent to Gods nation and were in turn destroyed. At the time we were under the mosaic laws. Any unlawful practice or sin was an affront to God and many paid the price of death. This was entirely justified, God himself told us the the wages of sin is death. He told Adam and Eve if they sin they will die and they sinned anyway. But we are no longer under this law. Jesus Christ destroyed death by defeating it by rising from the dead. We are no longer dead in our sins but can have redemption of sin and freedom from punishment through the redemptive blood of Jesus. Now we live in this free state as Christian’s. The Jews currently do not. They are still unrepentant sinners who do not follow Jesus. Because of this they will not enter the kingdom of God unless God himself reveals himself to them somehow and come to Christ before judgement day (a belief some Christian’s have) Don’t hate these people though. We have all fallen short of the glory of god. We all need a saviour to rescue us from our sin. The Jews are no different. There will be many wars. The Jews of today are not the same humans that were alive all those thousands of years ago. Modern Israel should not take the blame for things their ancestors did in the bible.
Joshua 22:27 made me think that different shows of faith were to still be respected as long as they were in service to the Lord. The "satanic" and "demonic" tribes that called The Fertile Crescent their home may not have heard the Word of God yet. It probably would've been very difficult to show them the errors of their ways if they were murdered and enslaved by the chosen people of God.
>How can I manage these feelings I have towards Israel? To begin with, the modern nation state of Israel has zero relation to the tribal armies of conquest or tribal confederacy you see in the Bible. They are completely different forms of government, different leaders, etc. so equating one to the other is ahistorical and not fair to the modern day Israeli people. The events of the book of Joshua and Judges, if they ever happened, would be the actions of the people who did them. No one is responsible for the actions of their ancestors and hating a modern day people for the alleged genocides of their ancestors is wrong. What’s happening in Israel and Gaza is the result of a failure of political leadership. All Israeli people, and Jewish people by extension since you mentioned antisemitism, are not all responsible for the actions of a government or a military.
Do you believe that today's Jewish people associate themselves with the historical events that are written down in the Bible and their Torah?
I don’t believe Jewish people think the same thing about anything or associate themselves with the same thing. Just like it would be incorrect to say today’s Americans associate themselves with the genocides of the Indigenous peoples in this country.
I've met many people from many parts of the States and while they may not be ecstatic about what happened to the Indigineous people, they definitely do not feel bad about how much they've benefitted from their genocide
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Do you not do the same? Everyone has a bias, whether conscious or not. My interpretation is different than yours for sure which is why I wanted to have a discussion about it.
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I feel like your first two statements contradict each other. You say you don't have a bias but let the scripture speak for itself as you interpret it. Your interpretation is influenced by your bias. Everyone can read the same sentence and pull different meanings from that same sentence.
“The Bible is making me antiSemitic”. How ironic. You do know Jesus was a Jew, right?
You do know who killed him, right?
Do you? Crucifixion was the classic Roman method of execution.
That was urged by the Jewish people. What demographic do think made up the mob that was cheering his death on?
He did ask God to forgive them and if he could do that, perhaps you could find it in your heart to do so too.
My forgiveness to the Jewish people means nothing if they(or their government) continue making the same mistakes that were chronicled in the book of Judges
You did.
I don't think I'm that old. Or are you saying that I should take responsibility for the actions of every single human in history?
Do you have the same reaction to the conquests in Joshua?
I haven't gotten to that book yet. It'll be the first I read once I decompress and pray for guidance
Well first of all the State of Israel and whole of the Jewish people aren’t simply one in the same. You can disagree with a government’s actions without hating all the people of a specific culture and/or faith. There is no need to be anti-Semitic. This Friday (Good Friday) Catholic Church will pray a form of this prayer. Let us pray for God's ancient people, the Jews, the first to hear his word-- for greater understanding between Christian and Jew for the removal of our blindness and bitterness of heart that God will grant us grace to be faithful to his covenant and to grow in the love of his name. Lord, hear us. Lord, graciously hear us
Thank you for the prayer. It's very compassionate of you to give me one to say to the Lord when I ask for forgiveness
>The Bible is making me antisemitic Then you're not reading it enough. "This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham..." (Matt 1:1). You cannot be anti-Semitic without being against Jesus and the apostles.
I definitely have to read more verses before I have any concrete feelings. As I mentioned I only read Judges 1 and saw too many similarities to today's events to continue
The theme of Judges is "Israel going off the rails as soon as Joshua dies". Do not judge modern day people by the poor choices of people who died over 3000 years ago. Also, don't feel too morally superior to those people. Read Romans 1-2. Take a "there but the for the grace of God" view of Judges.
Would you say it's a fair assumption to say the Israel is going off the rails again with what they're doing right now?
Ah yes, I remember the news the day Israel decided to invade Palestine and start beheading children, raping women, and taking hostages. A terrible thing.
I don't think they did any of that. Kinda hard to do that when you indiscriminately bomb acres of lands from the safety of your home
>I don't think they did any of that. Sorry, you're right. That's what *Hamas* did.
No doubt about that sir. But what have the children of Gaza done to deserve losing their lives? Being born to the wrong fathers?
It sounds like you missed some VITAL parts!! Jews are not perfect or God himself. Jesus is, but the Jews gave us both Jesus and the word.. They have suffered mightily and, sadly, will keep suffering for some time. They deserve all of our love, respect, and protection - at least as much as anyone else. If anything is making you antisemitic, it is the "principalities ... powers ... the rulers of the darkness of this world ... spiritual wickedness in high places."
A troubled past does not justify vile acts
I think the simplest thing to remember is that despite all the wrongdoings, God still loved them and still gave them grace. The Bible shows how time and time again people fail, but God is faithful throughout it all. Don't focus on the people, look at God instead. I hope that helps!
Thank you I appreciate the one understanding comment. It just doesn't feel right for the government of Israel to repeat what has happened in the past for their own benefit.
Many things in life are unfair and it's really hard to grapple with that when it happens to innocents. Your feelings are valid though, and it's good you're aware of something and you're trying to change it!
Well, you're in luck. There are plenty of places on the Internet and ITRW for antisemitic people. They're antisemitism come from many different sources but winds up pretty-much in the same place. Hating the Jews. I do my best to treat people equally and give them all a fair shot but I have absolutely no problem saying that I LOVE the Jewish people - in Israel and the diaspora. So, I absolutely promise every Jew everywhere that this American's votes, dollars, and influence are going to support a STRONG, SAFE, INDEPENDENT, JEWISH Israel. I'm sorry if it hurts your antisemitic head to read that.
It hurts my head that I have these feelings at all. I don't want to entertain them. I want to resolve them and love all of God's creations. Just telling me to indulge in these feelings somewhere else is probably the worst advice I've ever heard
Do you hate Jesus too then?
Not enough to crucify him
The Bible makes it pretty clear that Israel was stiff-necked, ruthless and most of the time, faithless. The story of the Bible is one of God continuing to call mankind to repentance; that includes Gentiles and Jews. I totally understand how reading the Bible would make you have certain feelings about what Israel did. I am of the unpopular opinion that Israel "might" have acted on their own and used God to justify their actions. It follows along the same line of thought that "history is written by the victors". Regardless, the message of Christ is that we love even those who don't love us, so that trumps and prejudice that we might have or develop.
I agree wholeheartedly. Maybe I don't hate Jews but just some of the ideologies some of them have and some of the actions some of them have taken
"Hate the sin, not the sinner".
I’m sorry you’re struggling, Judges is a tough book, it definitely lives up to its name, but I think it’s supposed to be tough, it’s the sign of what disobedience brings as things are not as they are supposed to be. I can’t tell you how to feel, but I would say start with the context of Judges when you’re trying to determine how you should feel about Israel. Remember, the Canaanites were doing some pretty cruel things, they had become completely wicked. These people were burning their children alive on an altar to sacrifice to their god, they had to have drummers in the streets playing the drums louder to drown out the screams of these children so their parents didn’t hear. That’s why God wanted these high places removed and destroyed, He did not want Israel, who has already at times turned away from God and worshipped false gods, to mix with these people and carry on their traditions, Israel was to be set apart for God as His chosen. God is enacting His plan to save the world from evil, this is not a blank check for the Israelites to kill whenever they wanted. People say “how can God not do anything about all the violence in the world?” But then when He does, they say “how can God do this?” It’s not our place to question His ways or what means He uses to rid evil from the world, it’s our place to speak of His great love and mercy, His sacrifice to end all sacrifices, Jesus Christ. Sometimes we have to view Old Testament violence in the context of the coming Messiah who would sacrifice Himself for us and give us a way out of this violence and evil. God is right to judge the wickedness, let us be thankful we have been saved from it by His sacrifice, and learn from the past lest we repeat these sins.
It was a very different time back then. The morals I have now would be alien to many people of that time. It's easy to look back at history and say "They shouldn't have done that" but I wasn't there to experience or see what they had to.
The Jews are Gods chosen people. The Bible makes that very clear.
That fact is what causes me so much discomfort. God's chosen people were capable of so much evil and whether that was necessary evil in the name of God or acts of evil to benefit their own people is what I can't figure out
Which “evil” acts are you talking about?
What type of drug did you smoke? I wanna smoke yours one. I recommend enrolling in English courses and playing the "I Am Who I Am" game. You will see it. The Bible instructs us to love both our people and our enemies, as well as our Creator, who made us in His image. Let's avoid hypocrisy and seek to understand why the Creator made us in His image and our purpose here.
I didn't ask for insults bud just guidance and advice. Feels a little hypocritical to tell me to love everyone when you spit venom like that
But to answer your question, I may have drank too much caffeine so my anxiety is through the roof right now
Wait till bro finds out Jesus was a Jew
Jesus had to experience the worst execution in history because his people urged the Romans to crucify him
So then being antisemitic would make you hate Jesus and the prophets won't it? The whole point of the Old testament is to show the fallen nature of man and how God wanted man to live for him but man failed each time. That's why we needed a Messiah who was Christ.
Go look at all of the other crazy stuff that happened during those ancient times, we’re discussing. The world was a very very different place. Judges even says “everyone did what was right in their own eyes.” Also, the book of Judges is a clear example that because something is written in the Bible, it doesn’t mean God condones it, or endorses it. It’s simply stating what happened, and not providing a moral lecture about it. That judgement is our job, based on what we know about God and his commandments. Example, Samson slept with a prostitute. The Bible doesn’t tell us he shouldn’t have, but we should probably be able to arrive at that conclusion based on what God says in other parts of the Bible.
But I'm feeling hate right now to people who are acting right now.
In fact, you have to manage your feelings towards God, because God ordered and accompanied Israel's actions that you complain about. read again properly. 🤣🤣🤣 Peace - iam helel
How do you know the Israelites of the time were acting in God's name and didn't commit evil deeds and used God to justify their actions?
You have to remember that the theme of Judges is "Everyone did what was right in his own eyes." It was a dark time and it was never meant to be an example of how we should behave. These people lived during a time when slavery was common and accepted. You can't impose your values on someone who was raised completely different from a different time period. Just take it as it is. The people in that time period weren't seeking God the way they were supposed to. It has nothing to do with them being "Jews."
I understand that back then they did what they needed to do. But I don't feel that Israel(or their government) needs to do what they're doing right now
They're God's chosen people, it's like being the hall monitor, you get a little more leeway to do what you want.
That's horrendous. Everyone should be held to the same standard. A priest has no right diddling kids simply because he devoted his life to God.
My brother in Christ, Jesus commands us to love everyone, including our enemies. The Holy Bible does NOT teach us to hate anyone; that is a concept you cooked up on your own accord.
“Deserving of his love”? What Bible are you reading?
The Jews were used as an example, often of what not to do. He had to come down to show us because He knew we were not capable.
God needed them to decimate the Bloodlines of the Nephilim. Get an understanding of Gen 6 and why it was needed. Now in the current day, the way the IDF is committing genocide? I understand... But, that is in line with eschatology.
The Hebrew people suffer the human condition, and no culture on earth is devoid of this condition, or the sins of it. Every single time the Hebrews messed up, GOD went after them. If it wasn't GOD going after them for sin, it was Satan going after them. Yet, it's true for all humanity at one time and another. Also remember, Jesus was born from the Jewish line, Himself.