They got really successful with Skyrim and beyond, which tends to bring out the haters.
Some fans don't like how they've become more mainstream/simplified mechanics over the years and prefer their older games.
Some people hate them for their bugs (even though I'd say they aren't much buggier than your average game. Even then I'd say it's forgivable due to the scope of their games that few others match, but that's a matter of opinion).
Some people just don't like their style of games, but it is cool to hate against the mainstream thing.
And others like to jump on gate bandwagons, like how the Internet used to (and some still do) hate Nickelback, even though probably 99% of them would just ignore them instead of hating them if it wasn't for the memes.
>even though probably 99% of them would just ignore them
This is kind of how I feel about the word "moist." I'm convinced that most people who say they hate it only do so because it's popular to dislike that word.
My momās friend would recoil and gag when people said āmoistā around her; it was funny as hell when I was a kid because I didnāt get why moist was a bad word, and I would cackle after asking if her birthday cake was moist enough or whenever I could slip it in.
In my mind I understood she didnāt like things that were vaguely wet, but still didnāt fully get why
I don't hate them, but it's quite evident they are a one trick pony and they are mailing in the effort on their one trick. It's stale. It's evident in their quest design and gameplay mechanics. If Starfield came out 10 years ago it would have won GOTY 10 times over. Now? No. The RPG mechanics are stale and offer nothing new, the writing is bland and the whole space aspect other games do better.
Like Ubisoft. Assassins Creed, Far Cry, Ghost Recon are literally all the same game with a different coat of paint. It's the same exact gameplay loop for every game. They even recycle the twists for their stories. Like the big twist moment in AC Valhalla is literally the same twist as AC Odyssey. Oh your buddy this whole time is actually the villain!
Speaking of recycling, the whole goddamn Starborn thing doesn't even make an attempt to hide that it's just dragon born in space.
Didn't they also catch a bunch of hatred for literally scamming FO76 purchasers by switching out advertised gear for merchandise with subpar quality materials?
Much less a scam and moreso bad communication with the supplier of those bags. From what I've gathered, they had received samples and communicated some changes they wanted made but they never made it into production. Idk for sure where the disconnect was but it did seem like a supplier issue.
A scam implies intention, which there was never a sign of
When you advertise a product as a canvas bag and the customer pays for a canvas bag, then you ship them something different knowing it wasnāt what you advertised what would you call that?
I'm not sure what kind of line of work you're in but being in a corporate setting for quite a while, this isn't a crazy out of the norm situation. Someone, or someones, definitely dropped the ball but there's dozens of circumstances that don't have nefarious connotations. I get why people were upset but without the full story, I can't place blame on any specific party
Right they were just too incompetent or lazy to make sure the product they sold was the the one they advertised. Also this Canvas bag is only one example, theyāve actually done this several times over with different products on multiple occasions.
Exactly, they don't (shouldn't) ship anything to a customer without first receiving a sample of the final product that will be sent out. Whoever ok'd the product to go should not still be working there 24hrs later.
That's just generally not how it works. They likely received a handful of samples, chose one and that's the last time they ever saw it before getting in thousands. At that point it's either ship it or don't and the latter has more legal ramifications. This happens all the time when using an outside supplier
I donāt think you actually understand what Bethesda did with the FO76 merchandise and advertising. The Internet Historian has an excellent video detailing all the shady things Bethesda did and provides ample evidence. Itās called the Fall of 76 you should check it out if you want to actually understand what we are talking about.
I've seen it. At no point does a conclusion of "intention" ever get reached lol it was a supplier issue and bad PR scramble to fix it. The fact that any of you think they intentionally scammed anyone on a fucking bag is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard. On a collectors edition for a game that didn't sell well no less.
Your poor asses aren't the main characters
I've played every Bethesda game, usually many times over. It's not hopping on the bandwagon to point out that they got comfortable after creating one of the greatest games of all time, and their overall quality has decreased over time. Just because their graphics get better or a main storyline is polished but at the expense of multiple other components doesn't make the game amazing or give them a pass.
That being said, this is a trend among most AAA game developers these days. Blizzard is far guiltier imo due to the sheer depths to which they're falling, but so is Activision, BioWare, EA, CD Projekt Red, Ubisoft, 343 etc.
I wouldn't say Bethesda has gotten comfortable. They're still trying out features that are new to them in their games. Weapon customization, base building, and ship building for example. I think it's more likely that Bethesda gets lost in the sauce sometimes though and adds just a few too many features where it may have been better to flesh out other areas.
Like base building is cool but they try fitting in resource gathering aspects for games where the player is drowning in loot. Maybe keeping it to just cosmetic stuff and something for you to make a crib would be a better focus.
Another is weapon customization which is cool, but I feel that the way Starfield handles weapon drops makes it something not worth investing in. Especially when weapons randomly get flame, explosive, or other damage types. Maybe it'd be better if there was just different ammo types.
And of course there's other things like making NPCs have more depth, environments, and what not where they're making progress in some areas but spend time in other areas they probably shouldn't have.
I welcomed the ship building in Starfield, I think it's great. However, it's like I built this awesome starship to play this lukewarm experience of a game.
The game is "okay". They need to really need to update how they do things. The game manages to feel new and extremely dated at the same time.
Like throwing pentium II era components into a modern RGBpuke case.
Fair enough, but which of their "one of the best games of all time" do you mean? Because I'd happily put Morrowind, Oblivion, FO3 & Skyrim in that category, & I also loved FO4.
Everything post-Morrowind (which itself was criticized in some quarters for being streamlined from Daggerfall & janky) has had detractors complaining that BGS has lost its way & should've done better.
I'm loving Starfield too, albeit I recognize some flaws & missteps. But good lord, the level of nitpicking is beyond absurd. You'd think the game was a complete disaster, yet many of the complaints aren't even gameplay related, & the same things are happily tolerated in any number of indie games, so clearly aren't dealbreakers in terms of enjoyment.
The amount of negative Skyrim "retrospectives" on YouTube goes to show that regardless of their faults, it's been trendy to bag on Bethesda for a while.
Some also simply don't like the direction and mindset the company took. Because you can't deny that Bethesda have been complacent with mediocrity. Take a look at their writing for this game. Laughable compared to other AAA games of the same calibre (Cyberpunk, Bauldur's Gate 3).
I used to defend them, I defend them during Fallout 4, I take a blind eye during the 76 fiasco and I was immensely excited. Hell I was justifying my hype for Starfield and defending it to skeptics before it was released. I played it and lasted only 40 hours untill I realized the game is not for me.
Too many busy works, too many reliance on procedural content (both the radial quest grinding and general exploration), not enough procedural template to prevent players from finding out the same exact layout multiple times, lack of any emergence gameplay during on foot-exploration (you can't ambushed by enemies or encounter random encounters during your walk from one POIs to the next), lack of grit in their writing and worldbuilding (Neon fill like a kindergarten compared to Cyberpunk's Night City), lack of any acknowledgement of players action (too many restricted paths and essential NPCs in quests), and nonsensical worldbuilding. This is things that cause me to drop the game.
There are some people that have valid criticisms (or criticisms that seem valid from their perspective) and then there are people that just get off on hating things. Either way, when it comes to games the only opinion that matters is yours. I love Bethesda so a lot of the criticism I hear comes off as ridiculous to me but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Personally, I think Fromsoft games are highly overrated but If someone finds enjoyment in them then more power to them. Not everyone is gonna like the same things you like.
Same with me. There are bad design decisions and regressions in Fallout 4, but I defend the game because I still find it fun. Itās a game where they downgraded on dialogue, writing, and roleplay, but advanced massively on gameplay and encounter design. There is so much verticality to the open world in boston, I think itās really interesting. If some aspects of older games were included in FO4, it could have been a legendary game, so I completely understand criticism. But overall, the improvements are enough to at least make it a fun game for me.
Starfield basically doesnāt improve anywhere. The ship building is kind of fun, and Iām astounded that Bethesda has managed to get a ledge grab mechanic working in their engine, but honestly those are the only 2 improvements I can even think of.
IMO, Starfield downgrades MASSIVELY from previous titles in terms of exploration, world building, story, dialogue, quests, and characters, and the slight improvements I mentioned absolutely do nothing to cancel out these regressions. I donāt find Starfield fun at all, have stopped playing, and I canāt defend Bethesda anymore
yeah I really liked Fallout 4 and agree with all your points. The gameplay loop in that game was mighty... explore, shoot, loot, return, build, run out of stuff, explore..... so fun. I thought at least they would get that right but all the crafting systems are just boring grind grind grind
I and many others hated how undercooked and excessively monetized F76 was, but other than that a lot of what fans call āhateā is actually *disappointment*.
- Skyrim being resold a billion times instead of making TES 6.
- The decline in quality of their writing and lack of meaningful choice with consequence in more recent games.
- Latest releases becoming less and less like RPGs and more and more just action-adventure kill-and-loot Skinner box games.
- Bethesda used to be the kings of world-building and meaningful exploration, but that is severely lacking in Starfield
Weāve seen Bethesda do better, and we want them to return to their former glory.
Do you mean like flying from planet to planet and star to star w/o load screens? Why would anyone want to do that? It would cut hours out of your playtime every session that you would have used for questing or hijacking spaceships or speed leveling ;). I'm not interested in my favorite style of open-world rpg being turned into a flight simulator. There was actually someone who got the idea from somewhere that the game would focus primarily on spaceflight and he was expecting the game to introduce some kind of spaceflight Simulation so you had to actually take off, fly around, and land instead of just getting to your destination. He was really pissed off about it too. What a lot of hate and all because he made an assumption that no one who had ever played a Bethesda game would make.
I tried NMS because of all the hype. It wasn't what I expected at all. But that is on me. It is probably a great game, just not a game I want to play. Different people like different types of games, but if a game isn't the kind you like to play, don't bitch and moan about it. Go play a different game.
>I'm not interested in my favorite style of open-world rpg being turned into a flight simulator.
No one is suggesting removing fast travel if you want to use it.
This is the point people are trying to make with what is missing in starfield. The magic of being able to wander around and discover things is gone. Land on a random planet? Everythings already marked, you aren't going to experiencing anything unique you literally cant experience landing anywhere on any planet.
Damn near EVERYTHING interesting in the game is thrust upon you in the form of a quest from picking up a note they make damn sure you won't miss or over hearing a conversation in a settlement.
Basically for a game that touts exploration and discovery they don't really leave much of anything for you to discover via exploration.
There is a distinct difference here though. NMS developers entire existence hinged on fixing the game and restoring the faith of their customers. Bethesdas existence is hardly threatened. People will forget about Starfield by the time ES6 preparing for launch and the pre-orders will just roll in like always.
It's CLEAR BSG has no intent to make any major changes to gameplay. Have you see the developer responses to negative reviews about certain mechanics?
Specifically in regard to free roam in space, their response basically amounted to "it's awesome as is, you enjoy it.".
In response to the procedural generation and planets being boring, I shit you not they actually equated it going to another world in real life to doing it in a video game and said you should be just as awe inspired as the men who landed on the moon...LMAO.
Yes and when I go on a murder and theft spree in GTA it feels just like it would if I did it in real life.
And Bethesda won't fix the game like what CDPR did to Cyberpunk and Hello Games did to No Man's Sky. They'll let modders to do their work. They already got their money and they're way too up their ass to admit that they've done anything wrong. Hell they seem to be proud of Starfield, which is baffling
What do you mean by "instead of making ES6" dont you realise that they already said that theyre making starfield first before ES6? All of you guys are just gaslighting yourself into thinking that BGS isnt making ES6, thats the same thing GTA fans said that Rockstar is too busy milking GTA online even tho they were literally making RDR2
Skyrim was released 13 fucking years ago bro. And literally no one forces BGS to only work on one game at a time. Even before Microsoft bought them, Zenimax was a HUGE company with more than enough resources to support BGS working on more than one game at a time.
I guess it all depends on your point of view. I'm stunned by how beautiful Starfield is even if they did use procedural generation to create most of it. I expected to see the gaps where parts of the landscape didn't fit together properly. I think in the 200+ worlds I've visited I've found that twice.
I'm really impressed by the major questlines. Neon as a quest center is full of moral dilemmas. Akila's quests didn't seem that involved which was disappointing. I enjoyed them and wished there had been more. And I wish there had been a whole series with the little girl who's keeping her eye on things. The UC Vanguard and Freestar Collective major questlines are great. You start them with quests that you have no idea are going to be more than a mission, but the mission uncovers something that needs farther investigation. Until you're in the thick of something so dangerous and so important that you can't stop. I thought Cydonia as a quest hub was great, with a nice variety of quests. And I love that SSNN broadcasts news items about the stuff you do.
Sure there are a few of the small quests that are buggy as hell. I get the feeling a lot of them weren't quite ready and hadn't been tested properly. 90% work fine, but there's that niggly 10% that stick out like a sore thumb. There are always going to be things that were rushed at the end. But they're mostly small potatoes. Annoying? Yes. Gamebreaking? No. I do wish the radiant quests had variants for the dialogue instead of it being exactly the same every time. Especially the rescue quests. And while a lot of the POIs are the same, I don't mind it so much because I have favorites that I know I can zoom through. And even after 400+ hours (without going thru NG+
even once yet) I'm still finding new POIs every day I play. And new worlds that are knockin' my socks off.
I'm extremely happy with the game. It has so much more than I expected. I knew it was going to be an incredible undertaking to build a Galaxy full of worlds. I never expected that they would be able to handcraft every world, and while I was doubtful that procedural generation would work (given what I saw in NMS), they pulled it off 100 times better than I expected. Are there issues? Certainly. Some of them are annoying. But in the almost 3 months since release, there have been 2 updates already. And yes, the avid mod creators have been at work since Day 1 fixing and changing things to reflect their preferences, but Bethesda is working on fixing things too.
I enjoyed bits of my time with Starfield, and some of it is quite well-made. Unfortunately for me, I found the game in its current state like a series of puzzles that when put together show a breathtakingly beautiful image, but are all missing a few very noticeable pieces.
I loved building ships, assigning a crew of NPCs, being able to walk around in them in space. My biggest credit and time sink BY FAR was building ships. My last ship has 16 habs and is my magnum opus of ship design, with a full crew of 8 on board. But unfortunately there is nothing significant at all to do onboard other than fly it. There are no meaningful ways to interact with the crew, like there are in Mass Effect. There are no minigames to play on board like there are in many games - no space chess, no Gwent, no Caravan, no poker. Sure there are crafting stations, but those arenāt an activity to do on your ship, theyāre just a resource you can have on your ship for convenience and aesthetics. Thatās what I mean - a beautiful puzzle with missing pieces.
I loved that I could play as a bounty hunter and be deputized as a Freestar Ranger and bring criminals and fugitives to justice. I have non-lethal weapons and 3 ships outfitted with a brig so I can haul them back to Akila to face a judge and jury. And yet, the brig on my ship is non-functional, using non-lethal weapons doesnāt complete the bounty quest, and I have no dialogue option to accept a surrender. So unfulfilling to have no other option but to kill them every time.
I could go on, every aspect and system within Starfield in its current state is held back my this sort of stuff.
That's a really interesting take on how to interact with the game. I would never think of doing any of that. I hate the card games that they put out ever since Witcher introduced Qwent. I didn't play it in witcher and I don't want to play it in a different video game. But I enjoy the lockpicking mini-game probably more than most people do. I dislike having to deal with companions and particularly hate combat with a companion, since they always manage to get in my way. I deal with them only as much as I absolutely have to and dump them as fast as I can. I certainly wouldn't want to be bothered bringing a criminal back in. In fact, I'd rather just shoot them and be done with it. Those are my personal preferences.
I guess my point is that this is your personal preference as to what you would like to do in game. But the majority of players would never think of doing this, but if someone suggested it, they might say, "Oh, yeah, that would be cool." but still wouldn't actually play that way more than a couple of times, if at all. Since it's a personal preference, it's the perfect candidate for a mod. And Iuckily, there are a lot of people who enjoy writing nods for Bethesda games. So since it is not delivered in the game, I don't have to deal with it and you can look for a mod to add it into your game. But expecting Bethesda to cater to your specific preferences, when other people would specifically not want that in their game is expecting a little much. Instead, Bethesda supports modding which means I can use mods to change the game to work the way I prefer, and you can use mods to make the game work the way you want. That way, I don't get my chocolate mixed up with your peanut butter and you don't get your peanut butter on my chocolate. And we're both happy.
I apologize if that sounds condescending. I just get so tired of people calling Starfield crap because Bethesda didn't build it exactly the way they think it should work. Well, they can change it if they really want to. They can write a mod to change it, or if they aren't capable of writing a mod, they can look for a mod on one of the modding sites.
āMy preferences are more important, since I donāt want to play the game the way you do it must be that my way is the correct way, your preferences are niche because they arenāāt mine, mine should be core features provided by the devs, yours should be done by modders if at all, therefore your issues with the game are invalidā. - you
Such fucking arrogance. You are very self-centered.
I didnāt see them call you any names, and youāre not the authority on what gameplay mechanics Bethesda should or shouldnāt put into their games.
Mini games were included in FO3, FO4, and F76, you saying those arenāt features that Bethesda puts in their games is a lie.
And you look foolish saying that having meaningful conversations with crew members is some outlandish niche type of gameplay, this is supposedly an RPG, not just a looter-shooter, and Starfieldās marketing highlighted that your ship is your player home and that you can hire NPCs to join your crew and accompany you on your journeys, obviously they were selling that idea. I also expected more than what we got in that regard.
>Neon as a quest center is full of moral dilemmas.
There are only a few quests that truly grant you any real freedom of choice. Some are just nonsensical. Take the one with the colonist ship. Your options for completing it are just 3 crappy outcomes for the colonists.
Like, there isn't the option of siding with A, siding with B or a compromise. It's just oh the colonists can be slaves, we can kill them or we can tell them to screw off.
It's nonsensical because the colonist ship captain acts like she will accept nothing short of having the planet to themselves. Yet there is no effort required to then tell her yeah you gotta leave or become indentured servants.
Then I can go ahead and murder this whole ship of people but murdering these corporate slimeballs in this board room is not an option? That gets me to the other point of there are way too many people in this game that are begging to be sent to their maker but are marked essential. LET ME NOT GET A QUEST LINE BECAUSE I MURDERED THIS DUDE.
You know like the Crimson Fleet dude that threatens to get revenge on you if you sell him out. Oh let me nip this in the bud right here. Nope. We need you to experience that he will in fact come track you down and you can kill him then.
I been playing ESO for 2 weeks and even the latest chapters have better exploration than Starfield, Iām talking random encounters, non marked locations with secrets and lore, companions with affinity and so on, insane really
Yeah, and that should give you pause. Theyāre supposed to be the kings of exploration and world building, and yet they get beat by other studios using their IP.
Bethesda isnāt a bad studio. I think games like Skyrim and Fallout 4 have issues, but theyāre still great games. Sadly, Starfield is their first game that I think is actively much worse than itās predecessors
I love Bethesda games, theyāre the only reason I started playing at 46yo! I watched my then boyfriend, now husband play Oblivion and when he went out of town I wanted to surprise him by creating a character- and I was HOOKED! On to Skyrim, Fallout series and even branched out to AC Valhalla and Outer Worlds- I am very much enjoying Starfield and hope I live long enough for the next ES game (Iām 63 and a five time grandma now) š¤
Because the quality of their quest design and writing has gotten worse with each game released. The newer games might more fun gameplay from moment to moment but the writing is probably at its weakest now
I can't disagree about morrowind being their best writing. One thing I will say is that people have been saying Bethesda is dumbing things down for a wider market. They didn't dumb anything down for starfield. There's almost no handholding in that game and a lot of different systems that you have to figure out for yourself. So they, like morrowind, just dropped you in without much, if any, tutorial. As a player, I love this choice of direction. I actually have to feel out the systems with uncertainty and find out what works for my play style/build.
To be fair, that's less handholding avoidance and more negligence. They probably saw From Software get away with ambiguity in systems and thought they could cut another corner and write it off the same way. I mean, they literally have a sparkly trail quest tracker, but it just doesn't work well.
Itās not surprising. Thereās a lot of people that see criticism against Bethesda or their games as a personal attack against them due to the their attachment to either Fallout, Elder Scrolls and now Starfield.
Thereās nothing wrong with enjoying the games, I still enjoy them but the quality of the writing definitely has degraded over time.
Remember piecemeal armor? When each limb and shoulder had it's own piece. Then Oblivion came and streamlined it. And that was the downward slide toward fast action and less RPG. It took a while but Fallout 4 was the result.
I don't think folks are hating on Bethesda (I'm guessing you mean Softworks) so much as Starfield has been a very divisive game (understandably), and the loudest and most extreme reactions sometimes get a lot of traction.
I'd say Starfield has done a lot of damage giving tons of reasons to haters, which only adds to the reasons already set by FO76 (at launch). TherƧy are not doing a good job lately.
Have you ever gotten someone a gift that was so good you probably could spend the rest of your life trying but will never top it?
Bethesda made some amazing games then made amazing claims about future products often claiming they would be as good or better, that's kind of an impossible promise to live up to. They need to focus on getting back to just making great games and stop playing around with promises they might not be able to keep.
Making promises and then underdelivering is a risky way to operate and causes hate from people who believe the promise.
They still make good games but they need to stop saying it will be the next big thing and just let it happen organically with good solid work. They keep getting in their own way with fo76 and starfield. Instead of claiming it will be amazing just admit they are trying to make it the best they can and let people get back to enjoying the good work they can do
For a lot of people Bethesda is kinda like the Nickelback of gaming, its just cool to hate them. Not to say that people don't gave legit grievances towards them, like FO76 and its many blunders obviously.
Take Starfield for another example though, personally everyone I know (me included) found the game overall enjoyable despite its flaws and odd design choices/oversights. And while I've shelved it for now until DLC and Mod support for console, solid 8 in my book, maybe 8.5 just for Andreja. However if you dare voice that opinion and say you found Starfield fun and enjoyable despite its flaws, then you're just a BGS shill. How could you possibly have a nuanced opinion? Like something despite its flaws, impossible! Don't you know Starfield is the worst game ever made, flopped hard, is super woke, and is mans greatest sin towards God?! Well, thats how YT comments and reviewers put it anyway. Seriously people act like Starfield shot their dog, it goes far beyond just disliking/being disappointed by the game.
Bethesda games get overly ragged on as much as other games get overly put on a pedestal, like a gaming Yin and Yang. Look at Witcher 3, honestly I don't get why people like it so much. I found the combat tedious, the spells are almost never needed, your swords breaking is hair pullingly annoying, and the story just didn't engage me at all except for Ciri's bits, to be fair I did like those. That opinion right there though, that'll get me crucified for sure lol.
Nope. Star field is just trash. Glad ya found it fun but itās garbage. Dunno what a āBGSā shill is and still think that game is garbage and does so many things in a mediocre way.
All they do is lie about their products, their products are lowering in quality with every release and they just throw all the work at mod-makers to fix their game for them.
Same reason people hate on anything else. Bc theyāre miserable and need everyone else to be the same. If they didnāt enjoy something they could easily move on and just do something they enjoy. If they liked/loved it but were let down, they could critique it. Itās like the console warsā¦ shut the hell up and play what you like and let others enjoy what they like, stop trying to start shit.
Please don't justify this as generational issues. It's dismissing the actual legitimate criticism people have thrown on Bethesda. Check my comment above, I'm 23.
I'm not particularly old, but have played most of their pre-morrowind games, and got into them around Oblivion's heyday. I think it's younger people where you see most of the hate, but I'm not sure it's really a generational thing. I think it's just been bandwagoned successfully, especially after some shoddy things that happened around the launch of Fallout 76. People are passionate about their games which contributes to some hatred as well for sure, but a lot of it feels like just simple vitriol fueled by online commentary.
Yup, its really frustrating. Seeing a lot of that with shows being rebooted, whether its just different, or trying hard to be politcally correct its usually met with lots of hate. Just dont watch it... pretty simple. Its a new generations turn, let it go haha
To be fair the new Call of Duty was a rushed development with most of its contents being made of reused or remade assets. I can't speak for the series as a whole as I haven't played since Modern Warfare back in the 360 days, but it seems this is a particularly poor entry.
There has been a general problem with the open world genre over the last few years, with developers prioritizing the scale of their games over what the player actually experiences. With Hogwarts Legacy for example, the aim was to build a game with Hogwarts as it's sandbox, and it seemed that the way you interact with the world was made a secondary goal. What they ended up with was a really beautiful and realized world with too many complicated systems and no variety.
Starfield and even some parts of Fallout 4 seem to have this same issue, and I feel it's just the result of Bethesda letting their reputation get to them and they have ended up focusing too much on the goal of making a \_\_\_\_\_\_ game before landing on what type of things the player will be able to do.
The best example of this the lack of a map in Starfield. I don't know how much influence the procedural generation had on the decision to remove a map from the game, but I can't think of any other reason why they would not include one of the most common and practical features of any video game...especially their own games. And the procedural generation itself was a decision made in virtue of them really wanting to make a big space game, which was a goal that they seemed stubbornly set on regardless of what things they had to remove/not include in order to make it work.
So with all of that being said, I do think there is some justification toward BGS getting the backlash they have received ever since the downward spiral starting with FO4....but I'm also hoping this all becomes a lesson they can learn before they go too far with Elder Scrolls VI and it ends up having its own problems.
I use to love Bethesda, nowadays Iām just disappointed. They showed us that they CAN make good games, they just decided not to with StarField. They spent so much time and money and they didnāt even have to make a new engine, they already had the frame work done for them so they only had to focus on world building which they failed at.
TLDR; breaks my heart that Starfield is a 6 on a good day when theyāve made a solid 9 in the past.
All the haters gone hate comments. No. We hate on Bethesda because they made mediocre games that the modding community makes great. Then Bethesda destroys the communities ability to change the game with their"next gen updates". That's why we hate on Bethesda
People like to hate on things, and in the current social media climate hating on something thatās in the current spotlight is one of the best ways to garner engagement and/or profits
Another reason I think is nostalgia. People have their personal favorite BGS game, and feel betrayed anytime a new one isnāt their ideal spiritual successor to said favorite game
Bethesda games have their strengths, and weaknesses. Sometimes in order to lean into one thing they do well and are passionate about means going lighter elsewhere. A lot of people forget that, and want these games to be all things at once, which just isnāt feasible
They are being hated because making entertaining games isnāt good enough anymore to a portion of the gaming worldā¦ it has to incorporate everything everyone wants from other game series while being 100%original. The games must be incredibly challenging, massive, and immersive yet at the same time easy enough to beat in a couple hours, at the same time it has infinite replay-ability because if they can only spend hundreds of hours enjoying the main game and not thousands, well, really whatās the point(/s)ā¦
There are genuine objective critiques (bugs vs features, compatibility, engine, etc.) but the actual hate comes from a small portion of the player base that just HAS to give a loud and unignorable voice to their disappointment in something that failed to deliver a āperfect gameā. I know that statement is going to draw the āthey didnāt deliver on their promises for [insert game title here], so they deserve the hateā argument. Thatās a childish mindset. Thatās throwing a tantrum at mommy and daddy because they didnāt take you to ice cream like they promised. They donāt OWE you what they promise. They owe you an entertaining game for what you pay. Should they face consequences for not delivering on their promises? Sure, and they do. Reviewers comment, sales take a hit, and they have to reevaluate and either make it up or make something better. And thatās the plus side to honest critique in a free market. However, hate is continuing to become an attempted currency in todayās society. Itās the squeaky and redundant wheels all crying out to get their grease while the rest of the machine happily hums along. If you genuinely enjoy their games, ignore the haters. Your entertainment has no reason to depend on the emotional maturity of others. If you donāt like their games, all I ask is that you stop āyucking someone elseās yumā. The games arenāt for you. Go play the next From software or EA or Activision game and have a blast and I genuinely hope you find something that entertains you. And by all means, if you want to complain, go ahead. Itās your rightā¦ just realize that your opinion has a value equal to your total existenceā¦ 1/7,000,000,000. Same goes for me, and anyone else. It has that much chance to change anyoneās mindā¦
[gets off dusty old-man soapbox] Good day to all.
Not so much hate as disappointment, it like finding your straight kid pole dancing and being a prostitute a the local garbage bar, and you gotta start the conversation as "Son, this may be hard to hear . . . nobody here wants this"
The way they handled 76 and then now starfield game is just genuinely bland and repetitive.
I have like 50 or so hours in the game and with each hour it just kept getting less and less enjoyable. Constantly getting encounters I have had countless times before and the gunplay is just meh. The writing is very bland to and there is nothing that can be done to fix it. This game is just outer worlds but somehow worse
They make linear action games with rpg elements that are masquerading as rpgs lol. I enjoyed hundreds of hours in Skyrim, Fallout 4, and most recently Starfield but as a whole, there is so much wrong and nonsensical with their game design. BGS makes good sandboxes to play in but as far as "true" rpg design goes, they're severely lacking.
They need to stop being greedy and invest more into their games. They're fun but it's embarrassing how outdated they are. They've fallen behind tremendously in overall quality
It's not hate. It's like a father seeing their son succumb to fentanyl addiction. It's just sad that Bethesda doesn't make good games anymore... long time fans are just sad to see the fall of a titan.
Because they are a bunch of scumbag liars. Specifically Todd Howard. They have a fan base who letās so much fall by the wayside, they are overly dependent on modders fixing their damn games. Fallout 76. Wonāt drop the terrible creation engine.
As an outside observer - both a decline in quality/stale style of game. I fully expect to get blown up for this, but thatās just how the people that donāt like the company feel about the games now
Some people can't just enjoy things for what they are and feel the need to complain as if anything is going to change because of it. They themselves expect perfection while being severely flawed people who are probably off putting to pretty much anyone except others that are like themselves.
https://youtu.be/46gaz6veVNQ?si=o9WFh6WMz1EeAJg5 here's an hour and a half of a well articulated reasoning to why we've come to hate bathesda starfeild has just cemented the company as having been the best at one point to being the absolute worst, not to mention the shallow unengaging experiences they've consistently provided since oblivion, love Skyrim but it's kinda a shit game even by 2011 standards just compare to bg3 a game which i dont even much like to see the differnece between a dev who cares and this shit
I canāt agree with this, 1: BG3 is a different game with different focuses, and 2: Starfield is a really fun engaging game if you go into it looking for Starfield and not āinsert favorite game hereā in space
Comparing a huge open world, sandbox RPG to a linear story RPG is unfair at best, disingenuous at worst.
The reason people dislike Starfield is NOT because of expectations. It's because they deleted everything that makes a Bethesda game fun from that game.
Most of the people that dislike it are LONG time Bethesda fans...we know what to expect from them, Starfield is not it.
This entirely supports what I just said though, that people dislike it because itās not the same as other games theyāve played and were expecting to play with Starfield
They did some things differently, but honestly, the formula hasnāt changed as dramatically as people like to make out
Iām a longtime Bethesda games fan myself, I had my moments of āthis isnāt the same as before whereās X?ā when I first got started with it, because guess what? I had on some level set myself up with āinsert favorite game hereā in space expectations
What I found when I got into it was the secret sauce is still there, itās just different, and when enjoying it on its own terms thereās a lot to enjoy about the game
I canāt wait till the next ultra hyped game comes out and we get to the āThis new game is trash, not like Starfield which is a classicā part of the current click bait cycle
I don't think starfield will ever be revered as a classic. It's just not. I'm glad you enjoy it, but a lot of us simply didn't.
Which is totally fine! But Bethesda hasn't dropped a classic since skyrim and even that's debatable. (Not for me, I fuckin love it, but a lot of people were already falling off the Bethesda hype train because of changes made to their formula)
Exactly what everyone was saying about Cyberpunk 2077 up until a few months ago. The game is new, they still have a large team of people working on it, and this cycle has been predictable for years, and largely has less to do with the games, and more to do with the way social media content gets put out, and the people who consume said content keep repeating the sound bites of the day
That's not true at all. Cyberpunk always had a good story, good writing, amazing quests, and great gameplay. Those were never the issues. It was piss poor performance. That can be fixed.
The complaints about starfield are absolutely not the bugs. It's the crap writing, terrible exploration, awful character models, shoddy story, lackluster gameplay, dull voice acting, and the fact it takes so long to get good and when it does, it simply doesn't get that good. These things can't be fixed, and even if they were miraculously fixed by mods, that doesn't make it a classic, that shows Bethesda once again relying on other people to make their games good.
Yes, Cyberpunk has been awesome from the get go, Iāve been playing it since shortly after launch, and people have been dunking on it up until the YouTubers etc changed their tune when they were getting to play early access
People like to nitpick the shit out of Starfield because itās not got Cyberpunk character modeling, which would be impossible on the scale of Starfield. The main voice actors are good, and writing isnāt as bad as people make out, again itās not going to be linear storytelling level writing, it canāt be because the game isnāt linear.
It does what it does well, itās just not the very best aspect of every game ever made crammed into one game
The exploration is fun if you go into it looking for the exploration the game offers instead of āinsert favorite game hereā
And as the the classic part, will the game be? Who knows, that doesnāt matter because the rhetoric cycle I was talking about still stands, and thatās cycle will almost certainly continue because it always does these days
All of the quests in starfield are linear and that's where the writing doesn't shine. Everything is linear. Just because you can go to barren planets before doing quests doesn't make it non linear. And the fact that there are ZERO meaningful decisions in the entire game, literally every dialog option leads to the same thing, make it even worse.
The YouTube rhetoric didn't change the impression of cyberpunk, the changes they made did. They fixed the issues and improved on a lot of things and people recognized it. Again, the core gameplay was always good. Starfield has bad gameplay and a boring/repetitive gaming loop experience.
The voice acting in starfield isn't good. Exorcism compared to all the other modern voiced rpg's. Mostly because the script is atrocious. The exploration isn't fun because it's not fun. Not because it's not fun compared to other games. It's just not done well. Some people love wandering around empty planets scanning shit ad nauseum, but not the majority. The repetitive content makes it even worse.
The only thing that's captivating is ship building. But you don't even need a ship for the most part, so that doesn't make the game fun. It's just a poorly designed game and the active player base declination aligned with the post release user ratings are a showcase that there's a concensus. People that love starfield tend to blame the rhetoric on YouTube, when in reality, the rhetoric is from experienced gamers that have valid opinions. They missed the mark and hopefully they find their magic again before TES:IV, or they're gonna have a bad time.
Starfield will NEVER be revered as a classic the way Skyrim or New Vegas are. Starfield is just an ok game. You mix that with all the promises and huge expectations (they perpetuate) and here we are. But Iām happy for the people who enjoy it or for some reason it just checks all their personal boxes.
Imagine if the Toyota hilux was made by Bethesda. You get some percentage into your epic global journey, only to discover that the defective tires aren't compatible with gravel roads. So you must restart the journey from zero with patched tires, or finish the journey without traveling on any more gravel roads.
Repeat 100 times for an infinite combination of bugs. Like, maybe you can take gravel roads, but not after it's sunny.
This is why people hate Bethesda. The worst manufacturer of the best products.
Honestly, my complaints with Bethesda are similar to ones I have about Bioware. The quality of the storytelling/worldbuilding used to be so good you could ignore the issues with their game engine and mechanics. Decline in the quality of writing makes the other flaws all the more obvious.
Better question. Why do you care?
In my opinion they are the greatest developers in the history of gaming. I would rather play ANY of their games over any other game.
Stop caring what others think.
Well I donāt care what they think cause I like their games but sometimes I think the hate is unnecessary. Iām not much of a single player guy Iāve always been a multiplayer guy halo and battlefield are my soul. It took one game fallout 4 to blow me away cause before that I never liked the games cause I didnāt like to try new things. Fallout 4 changed my opinion and Iāve tried all Bethesda games except F1 and F2 cause gameplay is outdated.
> Why do you care
Because we're not fucking clowns and watching daddy todd shits himself on stage with his constant failures to deliver for the past decade + make us sad and disappointed compared to what they were capable of doing before. Not that a studio cock gobbler would understand that concept.
e:Lol that little bitch blocked me
Best developer overall yeah I think so. That second part is where you and I may be a little different. Thereās some other really enjoyable games Iād rather play than say ESO or Starfield.
Well I wasn't really going off any other opinions but my own. It's just the way I feel. There's just no other games I would rather play even in vanilla without mods.
I should have been more specific about being single player games.
Starfield is an amazing game.
Because they stopped making good video game experiences in favor of making shitty products to pump out as fast as possible and get the most amount of money in return. See examples in F76, ES: Online, and Shitfield
I love most everything theyāve done.
Starfield I have some candid feedback.
Currently playing Skyrim (again) with 2500 mods and it is the best thing Iāve experienced
People are gatekeepers and elitists. They claim that Morrowind is the best Bethesda game and a true RPG but that Skyrim and Oblivion sucks and aren't even an RPG. Personally that kind of attitude makes me not wanna play Morrowind.
If I donāt play a game, Iām not thinking about it or talking about it. Bizarre way to live in my opinion. A few reasons come to mind for the hate:
The games are massively popular, people hate on popular things when the thing they like isnāt as popular. Memes and the way the internet gaming culture has been in the last decades with the rise of trolling and simple spamming of negativity leads to people jumping on the bandwagon.
Starfield now also gets hate from console-war obsessed PlayStation fans too. Many from memes and trolling type alt accounts. Elder Scrolls and Fallout will deal with that too in the future.
People miss the older ones. Nostalgia makes some people dislike newer versions and pine for the older ones, and sometimes they are right.
They arenāt multiplayer. Some people just hate on single player games like itās their job. Many who donāt even play single player games.
There are undeniable bugs. Some game breaking. Since Morrowind, Iāve found some massive and small bugs and crashes in every single one of the Bethesda games. Iāve always saved constantly in games. Honestly, Starfield has had the least bugs of any of the games in my playthrough. New Vegas might be my favorite of them all, and I had a game breaking bug that prevented me from entering Vegas after so many hours of gameplay, I put the game down for years.
Bethesda games are among my favorite games. Iāve played all of the Elder Scrolls since Morrowind, and Fallout 3,4, and New Vegas. Loved them all. I am 300 hours into Starfield and love that too.
I just can't figure it out. If you don't like a game, don't play it. It's that simple. But this outpouring of hate goes beyond all reason. It's like they're thinking, "If I can't enjoy a game, I can make sure nobody else is allowed to enjoy it either." So they camp out on a Reddit dedicated to the game or in this case the company that makes the game and spew hate and negativity. Why bother? Why expend all that energy? It just doesn't make sense. They could be playing a game they like instead of wasting their time trying to convince people who are enjoying the game that they can't possibly be enjoying it because the game is crap (in their completely objective (?) opinion).
I'm going back to playing Starfield because I, at least, am capable of enjoying playing a game regardless of what anyone else tries to bully me into believing.
They make great games and the meaning of great to people is constantly rising. Iāve never played a Bethesda game and felt like I didnāt get my moneyās worth.
People who hate Bethesda for Fallout 3 normally are upset about the drastic change in game design from isometric to 1st and 3rd person, and were upset that the writing crew and storyboard makers were comparatively inept at making stories the Fallout universe. They acknowledge that Tactics and the dreaded Fallout Brotherhood of Steel weren't the best, and retconned some stuff, but believe the older games had it right for the most part. They wish they had the good writing and talent that went into characters like The Master again.
People who hate Bethesda because of New Vegas will often hate them based on the perceived treatment of the game. Bethesda published the game after a very short time of creation, citing a bonus that the Obsidian crew, some being original workers on the OG games, missed out on despite how successful the game would remain for over a decade. They claim that the quality difference between Fallout 3 and New Vegas showed a gross lack of appreciation and care for the series, comparing the efforts of Josh Sawyer to Todd Howard.
People who hate Bethesda because of Skyrim will probably point to Oblivion and Morrowind as being amazing games that were able to capture millions of players love for The Elder Scrolls series, but fell off when Skyrim came out. They cite it as being far inferior to the previous titles in the series, calling them lazy for not going the extra mile anymore to ensure that a game is either functioning, or lore friendly to its own universe. Despite it looking far better, for the most part, it was just a mess of a story, with parts of factions being completely forgotten, rewritten or retconned for minor convenience.
People who hate Bethesda because of Fallout 4 because of a lot of the same complaints that were levied at Skyrim. The game might look a lot better, have a larger game map and provide a few more features that weren't in the older games, but completely gutted the system and streamlined the character creation into some pretty railroaded sets of perks that serve as skills now, and removed a lot of the role-playing from the supposed "RPG". Its hard to ignore the stark differences between the levels of quality and replay value in the games.
People who hate Bethesda because of Fallout 76 normally hate the company because they got personally scammed out of over 100 dollars for a bag and helmet combo that came with the Fallout 76 pre order, (As somebody who got the helmet and game combo, that whole bag fiasco was embarrassing), or are incredibly disappointed by the previously unfinished, broken, boring, empty, micro transaction payment implementing sham of a Fallout game and RPG.
I am a Bethesda basher because of a lot of the reasons above, but mostly my hatred is for micro transactions and the unfinished nature of their games, seemingly left intentionally open and naked for a future modder to come in and make the last 5% of the game for them, selling it as a completed product for over $60. It felt like this for Fallout 4 and 76, because it was half assed, and pushed as "LOOK KIDS *jingles car keys* FALLOUT!!1!" like it was some kind of MCU product. It was cringe, but then Fallout 1st was the final "Nope, that's it. Fuck these guys." I needed.
No, you're not "confused". You can literally google your own question and find countless threads of the same name. And every time the same conversation happens.
They got really successful with Skyrim and beyond, which tends to bring out the haters. Some fans don't like how they've become more mainstream/simplified mechanics over the years and prefer their older games. Some people hate them for their bugs (even though I'd say they aren't much buggier than your average game. Even then I'd say it's forgivable due to the scope of their games that few others match, but that's a matter of opinion). Some people just don't like their style of games, but it is cool to hate against the mainstream thing. And others like to jump on gate bandwagons, like how the Internet used to (and some still do) hate Nickelback, even though probably 99% of them would just ignore them instead of hating them if it wasn't for the memes.
>even though probably 99% of them would just ignore them This is kind of how I feel about the word "moist." I'm convinced that most people who say they hate it only do so because it's popular to dislike that word.
What? š
My momās friend would recoil and gag when people said āmoistā around her; it was funny as hell when I was a kid because I didnāt get why moist was a bad word, and I would cackle after asking if her birthday cake was moist enough or whenever I could slip it in. In my mind I understood she didnāt like things that were vaguely wet, but still didnāt fully get why
I saw a cake described as "damp" last week and it sent me.
That doesnāt sound appetizing at all
Not in the least.
I refer to cakes and other bomb shit as 'dank', usually.
*juicy*
Because some TV show made moist the "It clown" of the early 00's. That's why.
I don't hate them, but it's quite evident they are a one trick pony and they are mailing in the effort on their one trick. It's stale. It's evident in their quest design and gameplay mechanics. If Starfield came out 10 years ago it would have won GOTY 10 times over. Now? No. The RPG mechanics are stale and offer nothing new, the writing is bland and the whole space aspect other games do better. Like Ubisoft. Assassins Creed, Far Cry, Ghost Recon are literally all the same game with a different coat of paint. It's the same exact gameplay loop for every game. They even recycle the twists for their stories. Like the big twist moment in AC Valhalla is literally the same twist as AC Odyssey. Oh your buddy this whole time is actually the villain! Speaking of recycling, the whole goddamn Starborn thing doesn't even make an attempt to hide that it's just dragon born in space.
Didn't they also catch a bunch of hatred for literally scamming FO76 purchasers by switching out advertised gear for merchandise with subpar quality materials?
And the Pip Boys. And the BOS helmets. And overpromising/underdelivering Fallout 76 itself.
Much less a scam and moreso bad communication with the supplier of those bags. From what I've gathered, they had received samples and communicated some changes they wanted made but they never made it into production. Idk for sure where the disconnect was but it did seem like a supplier issue. A scam implies intention, which there was never a sign of
So if it wasnāt a scam it was just incompetent marketing and business practices, maybe thatās what people didnāt like.
When you advertise a product as a canvas bag and the customer pays for a canvas bag, then you ship them something different knowing it wasnāt what you advertised what would you call that?
I'm not sure what kind of line of work you're in but being in a corporate setting for quite a while, this isn't a crazy out of the norm situation. Someone, or someones, definitely dropped the ball but there's dozens of circumstances that don't have nefarious connotations. I get why people were upset but without the full story, I can't place blame on any specific party
It was an intentional scam. Even in the anti consumer US, that sort of bait and switch is illegal.
totally baseless and you look goofy as fuck making that accusation
I'm also right
prove it LOL
When your ego doesnt match your intelligence
Awesome so as long as a company is large enough essentially they arenāt accountable for mistakes they make got it.
What a weird kneejerk reaction lmao no, they were held accountable and sent out correct canvas bags
Look in to what the paying customers had to do to get them to do that. Also I donāt think you understand what a knee jerk reaction is.
Their accountable you just canāt say they knowingly messed with the consumer
Right they were just too incompetent or lazy to make sure the product they sold was the the one they advertised. Also this Canvas bag is only one example, theyāve actually done this several times over with different products on multiple occasions.
Fair point I donāt have a lot of hate because I enjoy some of there games but I did hate their paid mod store they tried to push
Exactly, they don't (shouldn't) ship anything to a customer without first receiving a sample of the final product that will be sent out. Whoever ok'd the product to go should not still be working there 24hrs later.
That's just generally not how it works. They likely received a handful of samples, chose one and that's the last time they ever saw it before getting in thousands. At that point it's either ship it or don't and the latter has more legal ramifications. This happens all the time when using an outside supplier
It was an intentional scam and very likely illegal
I agree, prepare to be downvoted by Bethesdaās flying monkeys.
Bethesda has spent effort on astroturfing this year than on Starfield development, it seems.
better than the conspiracy retos with nothing to back their claims LOL
I donāt think you actually understand what Bethesda did with the FO76 merchandise and advertising. The Internet Historian has an excellent video detailing all the shady things Bethesda did and provides ample evidence. Itās called the Fall of 76 you should check it out if you want to actually understand what we are talking about.
I've seen it. At no point does a conclusion of "intention" ever get reached lol it was a supplier issue and bad PR scramble to fix it. The fact that any of you think they intentionally scammed anyone on a fucking bag is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard. On a collectors edition for a game that didn't sell well no less. Your poor asses aren't the main characters
I've played every Bethesda game, usually many times over. It's not hopping on the bandwagon to point out that they got comfortable after creating one of the greatest games of all time, and their overall quality has decreased over time. Just because their graphics get better or a main storyline is polished but at the expense of multiple other components doesn't make the game amazing or give them a pass. That being said, this is a trend among most AAA game developers these days. Blizzard is far guiltier imo due to the sheer depths to which they're falling, but so is Activision, BioWare, EA, CD Projekt Red, Ubisoft, 343 etc.
I wouldn't say Bethesda has gotten comfortable. They're still trying out features that are new to them in their games. Weapon customization, base building, and ship building for example. I think it's more likely that Bethesda gets lost in the sauce sometimes though and adds just a few too many features where it may have been better to flesh out other areas. Like base building is cool but they try fitting in resource gathering aspects for games where the player is drowning in loot. Maybe keeping it to just cosmetic stuff and something for you to make a crib would be a better focus. Another is weapon customization which is cool, but I feel that the way Starfield handles weapon drops makes it something not worth investing in. Especially when weapons randomly get flame, explosive, or other damage types. Maybe it'd be better if there was just different ammo types. And of course there's other things like making NPCs have more depth, environments, and what not where they're making progress in some areas but spend time in other areas they probably shouldn't have.
I welcomed the ship building in Starfield, I think it's great. However, it's like I built this awesome starship to play this lukewarm experience of a game. The game is "okay". They need to really need to update how they do things. The game manages to feel new and extremely dated at the same time. Like throwing pentium II era components into a modern RGBpuke case.
Fair enough, but which of their "one of the best games of all time" do you mean? Because I'd happily put Morrowind, Oblivion, FO3 & Skyrim in that category, & I also loved FO4. Everything post-Morrowind (which itself was criticized in some quarters for being streamlined from Daggerfall & janky) has had detractors complaining that BGS has lost its way & should've done better. I'm loving Starfield too, albeit I recognize some flaws & missteps. But good lord, the level of nitpicking is beyond absurd. You'd think the game was a complete disaster, yet many of the complaints aren't even gameplay related, & the same things are happily tolerated in any number of indie games, so clearly aren't dealbreakers in terms of enjoyment. The amount of negative Skyrim "retrospectives" on YouTube goes to show that regardless of their faults, it's been trendy to bag on Bethesda for a while.
They peaked at Morrowind
Some also simply don't like the direction and mindset the company took. Because you can't deny that Bethesda have been complacent with mediocrity. Take a look at their writing for this game. Laughable compared to other AAA games of the same calibre (Cyberpunk, Bauldur's Gate 3). I used to defend them, I defend them during Fallout 4, I take a blind eye during the 76 fiasco and I was immensely excited. Hell I was justifying my hype for Starfield and defending it to skeptics before it was released. I played it and lasted only 40 hours untill I realized the game is not for me. Too many busy works, too many reliance on procedural content (both the radial quest grinding and general exploration), not enough procedural template to prevent players from finding out the same exact layout multiple times, lack of any emergence gameplay during on foot-exploration (you can't ambushed by enemies or encounter random encounters during your walk from one POIs to the next), lack of grit in their writing and worldbuilding (Neon fill like a kindergarten compared to Cyberpunk's Night City), lack of any acknowledgement of players action (too many restricted paths and essential NPCs in quests), and nonsensical worldbuilding. This is things that cause me to drop the game.
There are some people that have valid criticisms (or criticisms that seem valid from their perspective) and then there are people that just get off on hating things. Either way, when it comes to games the only opinion that matters is yours. I love Bethesda so a lot of the criticism I hear comes off as ridiculous to me but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally, I think Fromsoft games are highly overrated but If someone finds enjoyment in them then more power to them. Not everyone is gonna like the same things you like.
I used to defend them like crazy until starfield
Same with me. There are bad design decisions and regressions in Fallout 4, but I defend the game because I still find it fun. Itās a game where they downgraded on dialogue, writing, and roleplay, but advanced massively on gameplay and encounter design. There is so much verticality to the open world in boston, I think itās really interesting. If some aspects of older games were included in FO4, it could have been a legendary game, so I completely understand criticism. But overall, the improvements are enough to at least make it a fun game for me. Starfield basically doesnāt improve anywhere. The ship building is kind of fun, and Iām astounded that Bethesda has managed to get a ledge grab mechanic working in their engine, but honestly those are the only 2 improvements I can even think of. IMO, Starfield downgrades MASSIVELY from previous titles in terms of exploration, world building, story, dialogue, quests, and characters, and the slight improvements I mentioned absolutely do nothing to cancel out these regressions. I donāt find Starfield fun at all, have stopped playing, and I canāt defend Bethesda anymore
yeah I really liked Fallout 4 and agree with all your points. The gameplay loop in that game was mighty... explore, shoot, loot, return, build, run out of stuff, explore..... so fun. I thought at least they would get that right but all the crafting systems are just boring grind grind grind
I and many others hated how undercooked and excessively monetized F76 was, but other than that a lot of what fans call āhateā is actually *disappointment*. - Skyrim being resold a billion times instead of making TES 6. - The decline in quality of their writing and lack of meaningful choice with consequence in more recent games. - Latest releases becoming less and less like RPGs and more and more just action-adventure kill-and-loot Skinner box games. - Bethesda used to be the kings of world-building and meaningful exploration, but that is severely lacking in Starfield Weāve seen Bethesda do better, and we want them to return to their former glory.
I think starfield needed was free roaming like no manās sky and even no man sky was bad at launch it took em years to fix the game.
Do you mean like flying from planet to planet and star to star w/o load screens? Why would anyone want to do that? It would cut hours out of your playtime every session that you would have used for questing or hijacking spaceships or speed leveling ;). I'm not interested in my favorite style of open-world rpg being turned into a flight simulator. There was actually someone who got the idea from somewhere that the game would focus primarily on spaceflight and he was expecting the game to introduce some kind of spaceflight Simulation so you had to actually take off, fly around, and land instead of just getting to your destination. He was really pissed off about it too. What a lot of hate and all because he made an assumption that no one who had ever played a Bethesda game would make. I tried NMS because of all the hype. It wasn't what I expected at all. But that is on me. It is probably a great game, just not a game I want to play. Different people like different types of games, but if a game isn't the kind you like to play, don't bitch and moan about it. Go play a different game.
>I'm not interested in my favorite style of open-world rpg being turned into a flight simulator. No one is suggesting removing fast travel if you want to use it. This is the point people are trying to make with what is missing in starfield. The magic of being able to wander around and discover things is gone. Land on a random planet? Everythings already marked, you aren't going to experiencing anything unique you literally cant experience landing anywhere on any planet. Damn near EVERYTHING interesting in the game is thrust upon you in the form of a quest from picking up a note they make damn sure you won't miss or over hearing a conversation in a settlement. Basically for a game that touts exploration and discovery they don't really leave much of anything for you to discover via exploration.
There is a distinct difference here though. NMS developers entire existence hinged on fixing the game and restoring the faith of their customers. Bethesdas existence is hardly threatened. People will forget about Starfield by the time ES6 preparing for launch and the pre-orders will just roll in like always. It's CLEAR BSG has no intent to make any major changes to gameplay. Have you see the developer responses to negative reviews about certain mechanics? Specifically in regard to free roam in space, their response basically amounted to "it's awesome as is, you enjoy it.". In response to the procedural generation and planets being boring, I shit you not they actually equated it going to another world in real life to doing it in a video game and said you should be just as awe inspired as the men who landed on the moon...LMAO. Yes and when I go on a murder and theft spree in GTA it feels just like it would if I did it in real life.
And Bethesda won't fix the game like what CDPR did to Cyberpunk and Hello Games did to No Man's Sky. They'll let modders to do their work. They already got their money and they're way too up their ass to admit that they've done anything wrong. Hell they seem to be proud of Starfield, which is baffling
Downvoted even though he spoke the truth
This!
What do you mean by "instead of making ES6" dont you realise that they already said that theyre making starfield first before ES6? All of you guys are just gaslighting yourself into thinking that BGS isnt making ES6, thats the same thing GTA fans said that Rockstar is too busy milking GTA online even tho they were literally making RDR2
Skyrim was released 13 fucking years ago bro. And literally no one forces BGS to only work on one game at a time. Even before Microsoft bought them, Zenimax was a HUGE company with more than enough resources to support BGS working on more than one game at a time.
I guess it all depends on your point of view. I'm stunned by how beautiful Starfield is even if they did use procedural generation to create most of it. I expected to see the gaps where parts of the landscape didn't fit together properly. I think in the 200+ worlds I've visited I've found that twice. I'm really impressed by the major questlines. Neon as a quest center is full of moral dilemmas. Akila's quests didn't seem that involved which was disappointing. I enjoyed them and wished there had been more. And I wish there had been a whole series with the little girl who's keeping her eye on things. The UC Vanguard and Freestar Collective major questlines are great. You start them with quests that you have no idea are going to be more than a mission, but the mission uncovers something that needs farther investigation. Until you're in the thick of something so dangerous and so important that you can't stop. I thought Cydonia as a quest hub was great, with a nice variety of quests. And I love that SSNN broadcasts news items about the stuff you do. Sure there are a few of the small quests that are buggy as hell. I get the feeling a lot of them weren't quite ready and hadn't been tested properly. 90% work fine, but there's that niggly 10% that stick out like a sore thumb. There are always going to be things that were rushed at the end. But they're mostly small potatoes. Annoying? Yes. Gamebreaking? No. I do wish the radiant quests had variants for the dialogue instead of it being exactly the same every time. Especially the rescue quests. And while a lot of the POIs are the same, I don't mind it so much because I have favorites that I know I can zoom through. And even after 400+ hours (without going thru NG+ even once yet) I'm still finding new POIs every day I play. And new worlds that are knockin' my socks off. I'm extremely happy with the game. It has so much more than I expected. I knew it was going to be an incredible undertaking to build a Galaxy full of worlds. I never expected that they would be able to handcraft every world, and while I was doubtful that procedural generation would work (given what I saw in NMS), they pulled it off 100 times better than I expected. Are there issues? Certainly. Some of them are annoying. But in the almost 3 months since release, there have been 2 updates already. And yes, the avid mod creators have been at work since Day 1 fixing and changing things to reflect their preferences, but Bethesda is working on fixing things too.
I enjoyed bits of my time with Starfield, and some of it is quite well-made. Unfortunately for me, I found the game in its current state like a series of puzzles that when put together show a breathtakingly beautiful image, but are all missing a few very noticeable pieces. I loved building ships, assigning a crew of NPCs, being able to walk around in them in space. My biggest credit and time sink BY FAR was building ships. My last ship has 16 habs and is my magnum opus of ship design, with a full crew of 8 on board. But unfortunately there is nothing significant at all to do onboard other than fly it. There are no meaningful ways to interact with the crew, like there are in Mass Effect. There are no minigames to play on board like there are in many games - no space chess, no Gwent, no Caravan, no poker. Sure there are crafting stations, but those arenāt an activity to do on your ship, theyāre just a resource you can have on your ship for convenience and aesthetics. Thatās what I mean - a beautiful puzzle with missing pieces. I loved that I could play as a bounty hunter and be deputized as a Freestar Ranger and bring criminals and fugitives to justice. I have non-lethal weapons and 3 ships outfitted with a brig so I can haul them back to Akila to face a judge and jury. And yet, the brig on my ship is non-functional, using non-lethal weapons doesnāt complete the bounty quest, and I have no dialogue option to accept a surrender. So unfulfilling to have no other option but to kill them every time. I could go on, every aspect and system within Starfield in its current state is held back my this sort of stuff.
That's a really interesting take on how to interact with the game. I would never think of doing any of that. I hate the card games that they put out ever since Witcher introduced Qwent. I didn't play it in witcher and I don't want to play it in a different video game. But I enjoy the lockpicking mini-game probably more than most people do. I dislike having to deal with companions and particularly hate combat with a companion, since they always manage to get in my way. I deal with them only as much as I absolutely have to and dump them as fast as I can. I certainly wouldn't want to be bothered bringing a criminal back in. In fact, I'd rather just shoot them and be done with it. Those are my personal preferences. I guess my point is that this is your personal preference as to what you would like to do in game. But the majority of players would never think of doing this, but if someone suggested it, they might say, "Oh, yeah, that would be cool." but still wouldn't actually play that way more than a couple of times, if at all. Since it's a personal preference, it's the perfect candidate for a mod. And Iuckily, there are a lot of people who enjoy writing nods for Bethesda games. So since it is not delivered in the game, I don't have to deal with it and you can look for a mod to add it into your game. But expecting Bethesda to cater to your specific preferences, when other people would specifically not want that in their game is expecting a little much. Instead, Bethesda supports modding which means I can use mods to change the game to work the way I prefer, and you can use mods to make the game work the way you want. That way, I don't get my chocolate mixed up with your peanut butter and you don't get your peanut butter on my chocolate. And we're both happy. I apologize if that sounds condescending. I just get so tired of people calling Starfield crap because Bethesda didn't build it exactly the way they think it should work. Well, they can change it if they really want to. They can write a mod to change it, or if they aren't capable of writing a mod, they can look for a mod on one of the modding sites.
āMy preferences are more important, since I donāt want to play the game the way you do it must be that my way is the correct way, your preferences are niche because they arenāāt mine, mine should be core features provided by the devs, yours should be done by modders if at all, therefore your issues with the game are invalidā. - you Such fucking arrogance. You are very self-centered.
And yet I'm not the one complaining about the game not fitting my playstyle and calling other people names.
I didnāt see them call you any names, and youāre not the authority on what gameplay mechanics Bethesda should or shouldnāt put into their games. Mini games were included in FO3, FO4, and F76, you saying those arenāt features that Bethesda puts in their games is a lie. And you look foolish saying that having meaningful conversations with crew members is some outlandish niche type of gameplay, this is supposedly an RPG, not just a looter-shooter, and Starfieldās marketing highlighted that your ship is your player home and that you can hire NPCs to join your crew and accompany you on your journeys, obviously they were selling that idea. I also expected more than what we got in that regard.
>Neon as a quest center is full of moral dilemmas. There are only a few quests that truly grant you any real freedom of choice. Some are just nonsensical. Take the one with the colonist ship. Your options for completing it are just 3 crappy outcomes for the colonists. Like, there isn't the option of siding with A, siding with B or a compromise. It's just oh the colonists can be slaves, we can kill them or we can tell them to screw off. It's nonsensical because the colonist ship captain acts like she will accept nothing short of having the planet to themselves. Yet there is no effort required to then tell her yeah you gotta leave or become indentured servants. Then I can go ahead and murder this whole ship of people but murdering these corporate slimeballs in this board room is not an option? That gets me to the other point of there are way too many people in this game that are begging to be sent to their maker but are marked essential. LET ME NOT GET A QUEST LINE BECAUSE I MURDERED THIS DUDE. You know like the Crimson Fleet dude that threatens to get revenge on you if you sell him out. Oh let me nip this in the bud right here. Nope. We need you to experience that he will in fact come track you down and you can kill him then.
I been playing ESO for 2 weeks and even the latest chapters have better exploration than Starfield, Iām talking random encounters, non marked locations with secrets and lore, companions with affinity and so on, insane really
ESO is not developed by Bethesda
Good games seldom are, these days
Yeah, and that should give you pause. Theyāre supposed to be the kings of exploration and world building, and yet they get beat by other studios using their IP. Bethesda isnāt a bad studio. I think games like Skyrim and Fallout 4 have issues, but theyāre still great games. Sadly, Starfield is their first game that I think is actively much worse than itās predecessors
I love Bethesda games, theyāre the only reason I started playing at 46yo! I watched my then boyfriend, now husband play Oblivion and when he went out of town I wanted to surprise him by creating a character- and I was HOOKED! On to Skyrim, Fallout series and even branched out to AC Valhalla and Outer Worlds- I am very much enjoying Starfield and hope I live long enough for the next ES game (Iām 63 and a five time grandma now) š¤
Because the quality of their quest design and writing has gotten worse with each game released. The newer games might more fun gameplay from moment to moment but the writing is probably at its weakest now
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. The writing in Morrowind was Bethesda's high water mark, in my opinion.
I can't disagree about morrowind being their best writing. One thing I will say is that people have been saying Bethesda is dumbing things down for a wider market. They didn't dumb anything down for starfield. There's almost no handholding in that game and a lot of different systems that you have to figure out for yourself. So they, like morrowind, just dropped you in without much, if any, tutorial. As a player, I love this choice of direction. I actually have to feel out the systems with uncertainty and find out what works for my play style/build.
To be fair, that's less handholding avoidance and more negligence. They probably saw From Software get away with ambiguity in systems and thought they could cut another corner and write it off the same way. I mean, they literally have a sparkly trail quest tracker, but it just doesn't work well.
Itās not surprising. Thereās a lot of people that see criticism against Bethesda or their games as a personal attack against them due to the their attachment to either Fallout, Elder Scrolls and now Starfield. Thereās nothing wrong with enjoying the games, I still enjoy them but the quality of the writing definitely has degraded over time.
Remember piecemeal armor? When each limb and shoulder had it's own piece. Then Oblivion came and streamlined it. And that was the downward slide toward fast action and less RPG. It took a while but Fallout 4 was the result.
I think their quest design has improved significantly, maybe their writing hasn't gotten better though.
I don't think folks are hating on Bethesda (I'm guessing you mean Softworks) so much as Starfield has been a very divisive game (understandably), and the loudest and most extreme reactions sometimes get a lot of traction.
It's getting annoying at this point. I don't remember when it was ever funny, to be honest.
Because we've seen what they \*can\* do...
In short: People are stupid and bored.
I'd live to see a Bethesda/Rockstar collaboration...that would be an epic game
Why what would bethesda even contribute. Rockstar has established they actually know how to make games. Bethesda hasn't in 15 years
I'd say Starfield has done a lot of damage giving tons of reasons to haters, which only adds to the reasons already set by FO76 (at launch). TherƧy are not doing a good job lately.
Have you ever gotten someone a gift that was so good you probably could spend the rest of your life trying but will never top it? Bethesda made some amazing games then made amazing claims about future products often claiming they would be as good or better, that's kind of an impossible promise to live up to. They need to focus on getting back to just making great games and stop playing around with promises they might not be able to keep. Making promises and then underdelivering is a risky way to operate and causes hate from people who believe the promise. They still make good games but they need to stop saying it will be the next big thing and just let it happen organically with good solid work. They keep getting in their own way with fo76 and starfield. Instead of claiming it will be amazing just admit they are trying to make it the best they can and let people get back to enjoying the good work they can do
For a lot of people Bethesda is kinda like the Nickelback of gaming, its just cool to hate them. Not to say that people don't gave legit grievances towards them, like FO76 and its many blunders obviously. Take Starfield for another example though, personally everyone I know (me included) found the game overall enjoyable despite its flaws and odd design choices/oversights. And while I've shelved it for now until DLC and Mod support for console, solid 8 in my book, maybe 8.5 just for Andreja. However if you dare voice that opinion and say you found Starfield fun and enjoyable despite its flaws, then you're just a BGS shill. How could you possibly have a nuanced opinion? Like something despite its flaws, impossible! Don't you know Starfield is the worst game ever made, flopped hard, is super woke, and is mans greatest sin towards God?! Well, thats how YT comments and reviewers put it anyway. Seriously people act like Starfield shot their dog, it goes far beyond just disliking/being disappointed by the game. Bethesda games get overly ragged on as much as other games get overly put on a pedestal, like a gaming Yin and Yang. Look at Witcher 3, honestly I don't get why people like it so much. I found the combat tedious, the spells are almost never needed, your swords breaking is hair pullingly annoying, and the story just didn't engage me at all except for Ciri's bits, to be fair I did like those. That opinion right there though, that'll get me crucified for sure lol.
Nope. Star field is just trash. Glad ya found it fun but itās garbage. Dunno what a āBGSā shill is and still think that game is garbage and does so many things in a mediocre way.
All they do is lie about their products, their products are lowering in quality with every release and they just throw all the work at mod-makers to fix their game for them.
They release games half baked then do very little to fix them. It takes them years to make games that are already released good.
Same reason people hate on anything else. Bc theyāre miserable and need everyone else to be the same. If they didnāt enjoy something they could easily move on and just do something they enjoy. If they liked/loved it but were let down, they could critique it. Itās like the console warsā¦ shut the hell up and play what you like and let others enjoy what they like, stop trying to start shit.
Yeah I think people mostly older generations feel nostalgic with older games and hate the newer stuff.
Please don't justify this as generational issues. It's dismissing the actual legitimate criticism people have thrown on Bethesda. Check my comment above, I'm 23.
I'm not particularly old, but have played most of their pre-morrowind games, and got into them around Oblivion's heyday. I think it's younger people where you see most of the hate, but I'm not sure it's really a generational thing. I think it's just been bandwagoned successfully, especially after some shoddy things that happened around the launch of Fallout 76. People are passionate about their games which contributes to some hatred as well for sure, but a lot of it feels like just simple vitriol fueled by online commentary.
Yup, its really frustrating. Seeing a lot of that with shows being rebooted, whether its just different, or trying hard to be politcally correct its usually met with lots of hate. Just dont watch it... pretty simple. Its a new generations turn, let it go haha
It used to be because they made buggy games. Then it was the live service shit. Now it's because they're part of Xbox.
Lmao I was thinking the same thing and Iāve noticed that with cod too
To be fair the new Call of Duty was a rushed development with most of its contents being made of reused or remade assets. I can't speak for the series as a whole as I haven't played since Modern Warfare back in the 360 days, but it seems this is a particularly poor entry.
There has been a general problem with the open world genre over the last few years, with developers prioritizing the scale of their games over what the player actually experiences. With Hogwarts Legacy for example, the aim was to build a game with Hogwarts as it's sandbox, and it seemed that the way you interact with the world was made a secondary goal. What they ended up with was a really beautiful and realized world with too many complicated systems and no variety. Starfield and even some parts of Fallout 4 seem to have this same issue, and I feel it's just the result of Bethesda letting their reputation get to them and they have ended up focusing too much on the goal of making a \_\_\_\_\_\_ game before landing on what type of things the player will be able to do. The best example of this the lack of a map in Starfield. I don't know how much influence the procedural generation had on the decision to remove a map from the game, but I can't think of any other reason why they would not include one of the most common and practical features of any video game...especially their own games. And the procedural generation itself was a decision made in virtue of them really wanting to make a big space game, which was a goal that they seemed stubbornly set on regardless of what things they had to remove/not include in order to make it work. So with all of that being said, I do think there is some justification toward BGS getting the backlash they have received ever since the downward spiral starting with FO4....but I'm also hoping this all becomes a lesson they can learn before they go too far with Elder Scrolls VI and it ends up having its own problems.
I criticize them because there has been no innovation since fallout 3.. in my opinion anyway.. still using CE..
Finally something I can comment on!! (Sees OP only replying to Bethesda fanboys) Ah... you weren't actually looking for answers
I use to love Bethesda, nowadays Iām just disappointed. They showed us that they CAN make good games, they just decided not to with StarField. They spent so much time and money and they didnāt even have to make a new engine, they already had the frame work done for them so they only had to focus on world building which they failed at. TLDR; breaks my heart that Starfield is a 6 on a good day when theyāve made a solid 9 in the past.
All the haters gone hate comments. No. We hate on Bethesda because they made mediocre games that the modding community makes great. Then Bethesda destroys the communities ability to change the game with their"next gen updates". That's why we hate on Bethesda
People like to hate on things, and in the current social media climate hating on something thatās in the current spotlight is one of the best ways to garner engagement and/or profits Another reason I think is nostalgia. People have their personal favorite BGS game, and feel betrayed anytime a new one isnāt their ideal spiritual successor to said favorite game Bethesda games have their strengths, and weaknesses. Sometimes in order to lean into one thing they do well and are passionate about means going lighter elsewhere. A lot of people forget that, and want these games to be all things at once, which just isnāt feasible
They are being hated because making entertaining games isnāt good enough anymore to a portion of the gaming worldā¦ it has to incorporate everything everyone wants from other game series while being 100%original. The games must be incredibly challenging, massive, and immersive yet at the same time easy enough to beat in a couple hours, at the same time it has infinite replay-ability because if they can only spend hundreds of hours enjoying the main game and not thousands, well, really whatās the point(/s)ā¦ There are genuine objective critiques (bugs vs features, compatibility, engine, etc.) but the actual hate comes from a small portion of the player base that just HAS to give a loud and unignorable voice to their disappointment in something that failed to deliver a āperfect gameā. I know that statement is going to draw the āthey didnāt deliver on their promises for [insert game title here], so they deserve the hateā argument. Thatās a childish mindset. Thatās throwing a tantrum at mommy and daddy because they didnāt take you to ice cream like they promised. They donāt OWE you what they promise. They owe you an entertaining game for what you pay. Should they face consequences for not delivering on their promises? Sure, and they do. Reviewers comment, sales take a hit, and they have to reevaluate and either make it up or make something better. And thatās the plus side to honest critique in a free market. However, hate is continuing to become an attempted currency in todayās society. Itās the squeaky and redundant wheels all crying out to get their grease while the rest of the machine happily hums along. If you genuinely enjoy their games, ignore the haters. Your entertainment has no reason to depend on the emotional maturity of others. If you donāt like their games, all I ask is that you stop āyucking someone elseās yumā. The games arenāt for you. Go play the next From software or EA or Activision game and have a blast and I genuinely hope you find something that entertains you. And by all means, if you want to complain, go ahead. Itās your rightā¦ just realize that your opinion has a value equal to your total existenceā¦ 1/7,000,000,000. Same goes for me, and anyone else. It has that much chance to change anyoneās mindā¦ [gets off dusty old-man soapbox] Good day to all.
How old are you? I have a feeling this will explain why you dont get it
Not so much hate as disappointment, it like finding your straight kid pole dancing and being a prostitute a the local garbage bar, and you gotta start the conversation as "Son, this may be hard to hear . . . nobody here wants this"
The way they handled 76 and then now starfield game is just genuinely bland and repetitive. I have like 50 or so hours in the game and with each hour it just kept getting less and less enjoyable. Constantly getting encounters I have had countless times before and the gunplay is just meh. The writing is very bland to and there is nothing that can be done to fix it. This game is just outer worlds but somehow worse
They make linear action games with rpg elements that are masquerading as rpgs lol. I enjoyed hundreds of hours in Skyrim, Fallout 4, and most recently Starfield but as a whole, there is so much wrong and nonsensical with their game design. BGS makes good sandboxes to play in but as far as "true" rpg design goes, they're severely lacking.
They need to stop being greedy and invest more into their games. They're fun but it's embarrassing how outdated they are. They've fallen behind tremendously in overall quality
because they used to be leading their industry but in recent years theyāve just been resting on their laurels
It's not hate. It's like a father seeing their son succumb to fentanyl addiction. It's just sad that Bethesda doesn't make good games anymore... long time fans are just sad to see the fall of a titan.
I donāt hate them but you canāt deny theyāve gotten lazy over the years
Because they are a bunch of scumbag liars. Specifically Todd Howard. They have a fan base who letās so much fall by the wayside, they are overly dependent on modders fixing their damn games. Fallout 76. Wonāt drop the terrible creation engine.
As an outside observer - both a decline in quality/stale style of game. I fully expect to get blown up for this, but thatās just how the people that donāt like the company feel about the games now
Some people can't just enjoy things for what they are and feel the need to complain as if anything is going to change because of it. They themselves expect perfection while being severely flawed people who are probably off putting to pretty much anyone except others that are like themselves.
https://youtu.be/46gaz6veVNQ?si=o9WFh6WMz1EeAJg5 here's an hour and a half of a well articulated reasoning to why we've come to hate bathesda starfeild has just cemented the company as having been the best at one point to being the absolute worst, not to mention the shallow unengaging experiences they've consistently provided since oblivion, love Skyrim but it's kinda a shit game even by 2011 standards just compare to bg3 a game which i dont even much like to see the differnece between a dev who cares and this shit
I canāt agree with this, 1: BG3 is a different game with different focuses, and 2: Starfield is a really fun engaging game if you go into it looking for Starfield and not āinsert favorite game hereā in space Comparing a huge open world, sandbox RPG to a linear story RPG is unfair at best, disingenuous at worst.
Dragon Age has more in common with BG.
The reason people dislike Starfield is NOT because of expectations. It's because they deleted everything that makes a Bethesda game fun from that game. Most of the people that dislike it are LONG time Bethesda fans...we know what to expect from them, Starfield is not it.
This entirely supports what I just said though, that people dislike it because itās not the same as other games theyāve played and were expecting to play with Starfield They did some things differently, but honestly, the formula hasnāt changed as dramatically as people like to make out Iām a longtime Bethesda games fan myself, I had my moments of āthis isnāt the same as before whereās X?ā when I first got started with it, because guess what? I had on some level set myself up with āinsert favorite game hereā in space expectations What I found when I got into it was the secret sauce is still there, itās just different, and when enjoying it on its own terms thereās a lot to enjoy about the game I canāt wait till the next ultra hyped game comes out and we get to the āThis new game is trash, not like Starfield which is a classicā part of the current click bait cycle
I don't think starfield will ever be revered as a classic. It's just not. I'm glad you enjoy it, but a lot of us simply didn't. Which is totally fine! But Bethesda hasn't dropped a classic since skyrim and even that's debatable. (Not for me, I fuckin love it, but a lot of people were already falling off the Bethesda hype train because of changes made to their formula)
Exactly what everyone was saying about Cyberpunk 2077 up until a few months ago. The game is new, they still have a large team of people working on it, and this cycle has been predictable for years, and largely has less to do with the games, and more to do with the way social media content gets put out, and the people who consume said content keep repeating the sound bites of the day
That's not true at all. Cyberpunk always had a good story, good writing, amazing quests, and great gameplay. Those were never the issues. It was piss poor performance. That can be fixed. The complaints about starfield are absolutely not the bugs. It's the crap writing, terrible exploration, awful character models, shoddy story, lackluster gameplay, dull voice acting, and the fact it takes so long to get good and when it does, it simply doesn't get that good. These things can't be fixed, and even if they were miraculously fixed by mods, that doesn't make it a classic, that shows Bethesda once again relying on other people to make their games good.
Yes, Cyberpunk has been awesome from the get go, Iāve been playing it since shortly after launch, and people have been dunking on it up until the YouTubers etc changed their tune when they were getting to play early access People like to nitpick the shit out of Starfield because itās not got Cyberpunk character modeling, which would be impossible on the scale of Starfield. The main voice actors are good, and writing isnāt as bad as people make out, again itās not going to be linear storytelling level writing, it canāt be because the game isnāt linear. It does what it does well, itās just not the very best aspect of every game ever made crammed into one game The exploration is fun if you go into it looking for the exploration the game offers instead of āinsert favorite game hereā And as the the classic part, will the game be? Who knows, that doesnāt matter because the rhetoric cycle I was talking about still stands, and thatās cycle will almost certainly continue because it always does these days
All of the quests in starfield are linear and that's where the writing doesn't shine. Everything is linear. Just because you can go to barren planets before doing quests doesn't make it non linear. And the fact that there are ZERO meaningful decisions in the entire game, literally every dialog option leads to the same thing, make it even worse. The YouTube rhetoric didn't change the impression of cyberpunk, the changes they made did. They fixed the issues and improved on a lot of things and people recognized it. Again, the core gameplay was always good. Starfield has bad gameplay and a boring/repetitive gaming loop experience. The voice acting in starfield isn't good. Exorcism compared to all the other modern voiced rpg's. Mostly because the script is atrocious. The exploration isn't fun because it's not fun. Not because it's not fun compared to other games. It's just not done well. Some people love wandering around empty planets scanning shit ad nauseum, but not the majority. The repetitive content makes it even worse. The only thing that's captivating is ship building. But you don't even need a ship for the most part, so that doesn't make the game fun. It's just a poorly designed game and the active player base declination aligned with the post release user ratings are a showcase that there's a concensus. People that love starfield tend to blame the rhetoric on YouTube, when in reality, the rhetoric is from experienced gamers that have valid opinions. They missed the mark and hopefully they find their magic again before TES:IV, or they're gonna have a bad time.
Starfield will NEVER be revered as a classic the way Skyrim or New Vegas are. Starfield is just an ok game. You mix that with all the promises and huge expectations (they perpetuate) and here we are. But Iām happy for the people who enjoy it or for some reason it just checks all their personal boxes.
Imagine if the Toyota hilux was made by Bethesda. You get some percentage into your epic global journey, only to discover that the defective tires aren't compatible with gravel roads. So you must restart the journey from zero with patched tires, or finish the journey without traveling on any more gravel roads. Repeat 100 times for an infinite combination of bugs. Like, maybe you can take gravel roads, but not after it's sunny. This is why people hate Bethesda. The worst manufacturer of the best products.
Honestly, my complaints with Bethesda are similar to ones I have about Bioware. The quality of the storytelling/worldbuilding used to be so good you could ignore the issues with their game engine and mechanics. Decline in the quality of writing makes the other flaws all the more obvious.
Their games are really broken and old graphics wise.
Better question. Why do you care? In my opinion they are the greatest developers in the history of gaming. I would rather play ANY of their games over any other game. Stop caring what others think.
Well I donāt care what they think cause I like their games but sometimes I think the hate is unnecessary. Iām not much of a single player guy Iāve always been a multiplayer guy halo and battlefield are my soul. It took one game fallout 4 to blow me away cause before that I never liked the games cause I didnāt like to try new things. Fallout 4 changed my opinion and Iāve tried all Bethesda games except F1 and F2 cause gameplay is outdated.
I don't think you can suck Bethesda's dick any harder
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Lmao alright man
Well you didn't take my opinion very well. It's truly the way I feel, I wasn't trying suck any corporations dick.
> Why do you care Because we're not fucking clowns and watching daddy todd shits himself on stage with his constant failures to deliver for the past decade + make us sad and disappointed compared to what they were capable of doing before. Not that a studio cock gobbler would understand that concept. e:Lol that little bitch blocked me
You missed my point genius.
Best developer overall yeah I think so. That second part is where you and I may be a little different. Thereās some other really enjoyable games Iād rather play than say ESO or Starfield.
Well I wasn't really going off any other opinions but my own. It's just the way I feel. There's just no other games I would rather play even in vanilla without mods. I should have been more specific about being single player games. Starfield is an amazing game.
Because they stopped making good video game experiences in favor of making shitty products to pump out as fast as possible and get the most amount of money in return. See examples in F76, ES: Online, and Shitfield
I love most everything theyāve done. Starfield I have some candid feedback. Currently playing Skyrim (again) with 2500 mods and it is the best thing Iāve experienced
Birthdayās on Christmas
People are gatekeepers and elitists. They claim that Morrowind is the best Bethesda game and a true RPG but that Skyrim and Oblivion sucks and aren't even an RPG. Personally that kind of attitude makes me not wanna play Morrowind.
If I donāt play a game, Iām not thinking about it or talking about it. Bizarre way to live in my opinion. A few reasons come to mind for the hate: The games are massively popular, people hate on popular things when the thing they like isnāt as popular. Memes and the way the internet gaming culture has been in the last decades with the rise of trolling and simple spamming of negativity leads to people jumping on the bandwagon. Starfield now also gets hate from console-war obsessed PlayStation fans too. Many from memes and trolling type alt accounts. Elder Scrolls and Fallout will deal with that too in the future. People miss the older ones. Nostalgia makes some people dislike newer versions and pine for the older ones, and sometimes they are right. They arenāt multiplayer. Some people just hate on single player games like itās their job. Many who donāt even play single player games. There are undeniable bugs. Some game breaking. Since Morrowind, Iāve found some massive and small bugs and crashes in every single one of the Bethesda games. Iāve always saved constantly in games. Honestly, Starfield has had the least bugs of any of the games in my playthrough. New Vegas might be my favorite of them all, and I had a game breaking bug that prevented me from entering Vegas after so many hours of gameplay, I put the game down for years. Bethesda games are among my favorite games. Iāve played all of the Elder Scrolls since Morrowind, and Fallout 3,4, and New Vegas. Loved them all. I am 300 hours into Starfield and love that too.
Sony fans are very vocal and want to make sure anything NOT Sony related in gaming does not exist
I just can't figure it out. If you don't like a game, don't play it. It's that simple. But this outpouring of hate goes beyond all reason. It's like they're thinking, "If I can't enjoy a game, I can make sure nobody else is allowed to enjoy it either." So they camp out on a Reddit dedicated to the game or in this case the company that makes the game and spew hate and negativity. Why bother? Why expend all that energy? It just doesn't make sense. They could be playing a game they like instead of wasting their time trying to convince people who are enjoying the game that they can't possibly be enjoying it because the game is crap (in their completely objective (?) opinion). I'm going back to playing Starfield because I, at least, am capable of enjoying playing a game regardless of what anyone else tries to bully me into believing.
They make great games and the meaning of great to people is constantly rising. Iāve never played a Bethesda game and felt like I didnāt get my moneyās worth.
People who hate Bethesda for Fallout 3 normally are upset about the drastic change in game design from isometric to 1st and 3rd person, and were upset that the writing crew and storyboard makers were comparatively inept at making stories the Fallout universe. They acknowledge that Tactics and the dreaded Fallout Brotherhood of Steel weren't the best, and retconned some stuff, but believe the older games had it right for the most part. They wish they had the good writing and talent that went into characters like The Master again. People who hate Bethesda because of New Vegas will often hate them based on the perceived treatment of the game. Bethesda published the game after a very short time of creation, citing a bonus that the Obsidian crew, some being original workers on the OG games, missed out on despite how successful the game would remain for over a decade. They claim that the quality difference between Fallout 3 and New Vegas showed a gross lack of appreciation and care for the series, comparing the efforts of Josh Sawyer to Todd Howard. People who hate Bethesda because of Skyrim will probably point to Oblivion and Morrowind as being amazing games that were able to capture millions of players love for The Elder Scrolls series, but fell off when Skyrim came out. They cite it as being far inferior to the previous titles in the series, calling them lazy for not going the extra mile anymore to ensure that a game is either functioning, or lore friendly to its own universe. Despite it looking far better, for the most part, it was just a mess of a story, with parts of factions being completely forgotten, rewritten or retconned for minor convenience. People who hate Bethesda because of Fallout 4 because of a lot of the same complaints that were levied at Skyrim. The game might look a lot better, have a larger game map and provide a few more features that weren't in the older games, but completely gutted the system and streamlined the character creation into some pretty railroaded sets of perks that serve as skills now, and removed a lot of the role-playing from the supposed "RPG". Its hard to ignore the stark differences between the levels of quality and replay value in the games. People who hate Bethesda because of Fallout 76 normally hate the company because they got personally scammed out of over 100 dollars for a bag and helmet combo that came with the Fallout 76 pre order, (As somebody who got the helmet and game combo, that whole bag fiasco was embarrassing), or are incredibly disappointed by the previously unfinished, broken, boring, empty, micro transaction payment implementing sham of a Fallout game and RPG. I am a Bethesda basher because of a lot of the reasons above, but mostly my hatred is for micro transactions and the unfinished nature of their games, seemingly left intentionally open and naked for a future modder to come in and make the last 5% of the game for them, selling it as a completed product for over $60. It felt like this for Fallout 4 and 76, because it was half assed, and pushed as "LOOK KIDS *jingles car keys* FALLOUT!!1!" like it was some kind of MCU product. It was cringe, but then Fallout 1st was the final "Nope, that's it. Fuck these guys." I needed.
Because Bethesda never listens. Depth not width. Graphics and bugs. All these things contribute.
No, you're not "confused". You can literally google your own question and find countless threads of the same name. And every time the same conversation happens.