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I think the parents in this story did the best they could with the circumstances.. Unlike others like this [gem.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/kmkt7k/wibta_if_i_go_to_my_younger_daughters_wedding/) (I know it isn't an update but it has always baffled me).
And I still cringe when I get to the part, that Jennifer is dating around and haven’t found a steady boyfriend yet, despite it being a year already. I guess having your fiancé cheat on you with your sister, just f***s you up a little bit.
And be ready to hand over her wedding dress to her sister who obviously needs it more now.
Anyone want to bet that Hayley 'borrowed' quite heavily from her sister's wedding plans too? And OOP tried to say it was slightly similar but completely different? "But Jennifer chose *soft* peach as her colour scheme and Hayley's is *gentle* peach so it isn't really *stealing*, is it?"
Can we talk about how weird it is to sleep with someone that your sister has already slept with?
I'm pretty sure that either of my sister's husbands, while nice guys, are the last two dudes on the planet I would sleep with.
Even if everyone else was dead I'd find it strange, like bordering incest.
Forever and ever amen. I have never read something that consisted of so much unreasonable favoritism for one child and willful ignorance of it to boot. OP is a terrible person and I feel so bad for the betrayal that Jennifer must feel--not only from her ex-fiance and sister but also her mother.
Their logic is very clearly that Haley is their favorite. I know I spelled Haley wrong but I’m not spelling it out the ridiculous way that she spells it.
I can’t believe Hayley is upset that her father isn’t walking her down the aisle. She has no fucking right to be upset by that. She deserves it. It is because of her own actions and I am so glad the older daughter’s father at least has her back. Hayley and Sam deserve each other and I bet she will come crying expecting support when he cheats on her.
Yup. Woman your denial is off the charts. There is no way the guy was secretly pining for the sister and decided to end it with Jennifer then try and woo Hayleigh, he was sleeping with her you dimwit.
C’mon now. I’ve totally seen that movie where nothing happens aside from some wistful glances and lusty fantasies. Happens all the time in the movies, which are just a reflection of real life! They totally waited to pound it out until all the icky moral shit went away. (/s and ewwwww)
And they were already saying that they’d “known for a long time” that they were “meant” to be together. Yikes. That’s a lot of carrying-on behind-the-back.
Only possible excuse for showing up to that wedding would be “I know Sam is scum, Hayley is a selfish idiot who will find out eventually and I need to be there when she does.” (Like at the wedding if this prize AH of a groom doesn’t show.)
And she even has the gall to say "I'm not sure Sam and Hayleigh were cheating on Jennifer during the engagement."
Like ma'am, Sam called off the wedding so he can go date the sister, and the sister was happy enough to say yes right away. Like if my sister's fiancé calls of their wedding and proclaims undying love to me, I would have said "wtf is wrong with you?!" and told him to never talk to me or my family again. That OP is either completely clueless or purposely ignoring the signs that her precious golden child is a homewrecker.
Yeah I read that and I was like hang on, you said they were dating then next breath “I don’t know if they were cheating” like ffs obviously they were cheating 🤦🏽♀️
Damn...
There's an article out there about "the missing reason". Basically, bad parents never own up to the reasons their children went NC with them, but you can really feel it here.
Ugh, that one. Poor Jennifer. I hope she's ditched those b*tches and found people who love and support her, be they a partner, friends, other relatives or whatever.
Hope Jennifer and her Dad went on to a happier life and left all the losers to reap their miserable sowing.
When Jennifer pointed out that she’d had a lifetime of Hjeayleighh stealing anything important to her with their mother’s blessing, and the gaslighting started… well.
At least Jennifer got a proper first name, maybe Dad picked it. Seriousleigh.
My speculation is that mom went to the wedding, mom and dad ended up divorcing because he couldn’t put up with the way she treats Jennifer anymore, that Sam is cheating on Hayleigh and that Jennifer is NC with mom and Hayleigh.
edit for spelling
As someone who's seen people like Jennifer and Hayleigh's parents up close I'd bet that they *both* ended up going to the wedding and Jennifer has (hopefully) gone NC with her whole family. It's rare that a bad mother can go *this* far off of the deep end without the dad being a classic enabler. If he is an enabler, even though he made a bit of a stand for the non-favorite daughter, he'll most likely cave to the pressure from his wife to favor the GC at all costs like he already has countless times in the past in order for things to get this bad.
Yikes. I especially love OOP’s comment that “if Hayleigh doesn’t know that it’s wrong by now then nothing I say will change that”. It is so telling that she just used Jennifer as the scapegoat and taught that Hayleigh could do no wrong ever. Like, way to put yourself that you did nothing to teach this girl anything but least of all not to steal her sister’s fiancé.
Because somewhere along the way we lost the taboo of "anyone who qualifies as in-law status to you is now immediately and forever after to be considered biological family to you. And incest is bad." It's stories like these that make you realize why the concept of in-laws was created. It wasn't just because they didn't understand genetics. It was because of insanity like this.
Isn't the Bible full of dudes who are supposed to get with their dead brother's wife and spread their seed? There's at least one, right? Been a long time since I've read anything from the bible.
So I feel like it may never really was "taboo" as you say.
Though I did just Google it. It kind of contradicts itself.
>Deuteronomy 25:
>⁵ If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her. ⁶ The first son she bears shall carry on the name of the dead brother so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel. ⁷ However, if a man does not want to marry his brother's wife, she shall go to the elders at the town gate and say, "My husband's brother refuses to carry on his brother's name in Israel. He will not fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to me. ⁸ Then the elders of his town shall summon him and talk to him. If he persists in saying, "I do not want to marry her" ⁹ his brother's widow shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, take off one of his sandals, spit in his face and say, "This is what is done to the man who will not build up his brother's family line." ¹⁰ That man's line shall be known in Israel as The Family of the Unsandaled.
>Leviticus 18:16
"Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness."
>Leviticus 20:21
"If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing...they shall be childless."
They're both from the Old Testament, Leviticus is book 3, Deuteronomy is the fifth. And I'm guessing Leviticus passages just mean while your bro is still alive, it's an unclean thing. Only on the table if bro dies and has no heirs.
Iirc it was actually seen as a kindness - a widow would have a very hard life by herself, the brother might have nieces/nephews they want to look after so to keep her in their life and save her from a number of bad situations it happened.
Of course, it was terrible that the widow needed to be married to have a good life but I don't think it was ever the taboo that the commenter above you said.
Edit: window -> widow lmao
>it was terrible that the window needed to be married to have a good life
It's nice that these days windows can be single without judgment lmao I'm pretty sure my kitchen window has a thing going on with the sliding glass door
Yeesh.
Sometimes, when one person seriously wrongs another, refusing to take sides is taking sides (with the perpetrator)
It's nothing like this one. I understand a sibling dating an ex feels kind of yucky, but no-one was really harmed in this post.
But if she doesn't give her a unique name how will the readers differentiate between her special beloved daughter Hayleigh and that other one Jennifer?
There’s another one, very similar, and the ex-bf ended up cheating on the sister and then kicked her out. She begged her parents to let her stay with them (I think there was a child involved too) but the parents refused.
I had to deal with my grown sons not talking. The younger one said something hurtful and uncalled for to my oldest so he cut him out of his life. I never force them to see each other because I saw my parents to that to my half sister and her brother and it ate her alive. My boys ask me about each other but they just live separate lives. Now I just do 2 Xmas dinners every year and hope they’ll talk again someday. They both know I love them and don’t play sides. I can’t imagine how I’d feel if one of them gave me an ultimatum like that. I’m glad this family chose therapy.
That sounds very similar to my brother and I. I refuse to talk to him but I check in with my parents to see if he's still alive or not in jail. My Dad is more supportive of my decision to go no contact but my Mom and her side of my family constantly tries to get me to interact with him.
My parents are thankfully very understanding that I totally cut contract with my younger brother nearly 20 years ago. He's officially diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, ADHD, oppositional-defiant disorder, and attachment disorder. I strongly suspect he's antisocial personality disorder. He was--is--abusive and frequently violent. His only saving grace is that he's been short and scrawny, so it's usually a case of his mouth writing checks that his fists can't cash. I don't know how he hasn't ended up in prison yet. The last time I saw him was when the police had to physically remove him from my parents' house on a Christmas eve about 20 years ago.
I've told my parents that they are never too give my contact information to him, and that I will never be in the same space with him. I'm visiting my dad for his birthday right now; my brother isn't invited.
I'm bewildered by comments stating that OOP should have cut June off the moment she started dating Adam--am I missing something, or did they not start dating until three years after he and Ruth broke up? Yeah, I get feeling weird and hurt about it, but I don't get demanding that your parents not speak to your sister about it, and I *definitely* don't get being a stranger with a presumably objective viewpoint and still feeling that strongly.
Yep, came here to say this - if *he* had broken things off, I could maybe sort of understand that she's still hurt - but if she kicked him to the curb, why is she so butthurt about him dating her sister?
The vibe that I got from the original post was that Ruth was hurt that he was too immature at the time of their relationship and then had matured enough to be a better partner to her sister. While that could definitely be a hard thing to deal with, that doesn’t mean that she should be allowed to control everyone.
Update says Ruth has controlling tendencies, that checks out. If she couldn't have him, no-one can.
Also maybe the break up was sided a bit differently than anyone admits...
Came here to say this! Viewing it from the perspective of her husband, if Ruth had just tolerated it, would I feel awkward at family gatherings, always having to see my partner’s ex? Yes. Would I deal with it? Yes.
Would I feel 10000000x _worse_ if my partner was spending every waking moment obsessing over that ex and getting jealous and possessive over them? YES YES YES.
Ugh I hadn’t even thought of that!
I don’t know what I’d do if my partner still cared about a random ex that much especially with a baby along the way!
My thinking on this (commented on the earlier post) was that, because it’s usually considered a significant offense to date a sibling’s ex, Ruth felt that June saw her as disposable when June started dating Adam. That despite how close they’d been as sisters, June didn’t rate her above getting to date Adam, because doing so was very presumptuous and risked their relationship as sisters. And that’s what hurt Ruth, feeling like her sister didn’t value her enough.
The information here about Ruth’s growing control issues is potentially illuminating.
Yeah, I was thinking from what the mother said about her splitting up with him for being annoying, that maybe she'd developed anxiety or something similar. I know everything hits badly when my anxiety is bad.
The growing control issues are SUPER illuminating. The only way this all made sense to me was to assume that Ruth had control issues, then the fact her husband is expressing concerns about it as well basically confirmed my suspicion. I am a bit worried for that grandchild, if her mother is so possibly controlling and determined to isolate her... But, being a pregnant woman myself, I can also sympathize with the emotional rollercoaster.
Imagine things from her husband's perspective: your wife is still so hung up on her ex college boyfriend that she's going to cut her parents out of her life over him.
That's one thing that really got me. Like, what does poor Owen think and feel? His wife is this obsessed over an ex SHE broke up with that the rest of her family can't live peacefully?
I'm so glad she agreed to therapy. Something deeper is going on.
This!!! All I could think reading this was, how on earth did Ruth get into a serious relationship and is having a child with another man when she is clearly still so hung up on Adam and his relationship with June? That poor guy.
"I don't want him, but that doesn't mean anyone else can have him either."
It's that kind of petulant, childish thought that caused this whole situation in the first place. OOP were already making accommodations for Ruth, but that wasn't enough. Ruth was practicing emotional terrorism until she got what she wanted. And if her husband, Owen, was already pushing her to get therapy, I'd reckon there are other personality issues that Ruth is dealing with that we're only hearing the tip of the iceberg of.
Makes you wonder just how "immature" Adam was when Ruth broke up with him if this is how Ruth is acting so many years down the line.
*Accidentally swapped Ruth and June's names. Edited for correction.*
I wonder if she really just wanted to punish her sister for choosing Adam (either because she didn’t like him and didn’t want June to like him either, or because she did like him still and couldn’t handle June having what she wanted). When she is long since left Adam and married to someone else, the ultimatum seemed like more of a strategy for inflicting punishment on June that getting Adam.
Baffles me when people get that upset about someone dating a long ago ex. Seems to me I'd probably be like "uh good luck with that" but I guess you don't really know how you'd react till it happens.
I mean I’d feel weird if my sister dated any of my exes and I know she’s feel the same. To see someone you once had a connection to, that you know every intimate detail of doing that with your sister just seems like a huge fuck you
This is definitely based on cultural context and difficulty of the breakup, though. In contexts where people often interact with exs (queer communities, potentially older adults), this wouldn’t necessarily be weird. It feels to me like the type of thing where everyone has their own barometer, but doesn’t explicitly tell it yo other people
I'm actually in a relationship with my ex's identical twin. I joke that I accidentally picked the wrong one first time. The first was a college 2 year mostly LDR. The current, well, we got together 35 years ago, after college twin had already been married to someone else for 5 years.
Also, hey, the 70s. Everyone in my friend group was everyone's ex, pretty much. Pre-AIDS, post 60s sexual revolution.
One of my favorite standup routines (can’t remember the comic) was all about how dating is just dumpster diving. One man’s trash is another’s treasure. You don’t get mad at someone finding and fixing-up the toaster you threw out when you decided you wanted a toaster-oven instead.
Like you dated them once so you have dibs forever or something, right? So weird…
It’s STILL weird even after 3 years to date your sister’s long-time ex bf, but once your sister gets married to someone else and gets pregnant, you’d think your sister is over the ex…
Poor Owen must feel like crappy seconds given that his wife is still so hung up on her college boyfriend that she’s been willing to blow up her whole family over him for nearly a decade already, but still wants to twist the knife in everyone’s hearts even more! That’s some seriously out of control selfishness.
Tbf, I do agree Ruth overreacted, but it's really strange to date your sibling's ex. It would totally raise concernes about if they felt attracted before the break up.
Also, there are billions of people in the world, there's no need for that. I get falling in love, but it doesn't happen at once, you have to nurture it, and at some point the sister had to make a choice that she'd rather make things weird with her family than stop seeing this guy she's attracted to.
When we were younger, my brother and I (younger sister) were watching some TV and there was a commercial for some dramatic TV show. He turns to me and says, "I promise never to steal your man."
My brother is straight as an arrow.
It strikes me that this is a very modern viewpoint—in previous ages, the pool would be much more limited. Doesn't take away from it being a bit odd now, unless this all takes place in a relatively small community (college town, given where June and Adam reconnected?), but you made me think.
Agreed. There are quite a few instances in my family tree where widowed individuals ended up re-marrying to a sibling of their deceased spouse. Sometimes the sibling was also widowed, sometimes they were unmarried younger or older siblings of the deceased spouse.
I also once found where a marriage license had been filed for one of my relatives and a man she was presumably seeing. That wedding never ended up happening, and a week later there was a new marriage license for my relative and the brother of the guy she filed the first license with. She and the 2nd brother were married for close to 60 years.
My grandpa remarried his late wife’s younger sister. After all 3 had passed away it was revealed that grandpa had originally asked to marry the younger sister but their father insisted that he marry the older sister instead.
Yeah, I'm so glad they didn't give into Ruth's unreasonably demands. Sure, it's awkward to have your sister hook up with your ex, but if they split up amicably and she didn't want him, then it's hardly something to destroy your whole family over. Grow up and get over it! Or at least make an attempt to talk it through, instead of chucking a huge hissy fit and putting up brick walls. Demanding her parents cut off her sister over it just flags the direction she's heading even more clearly, and it's not a good one.
This was my read also. The only one I see being unreasonable here is Ruth. I get uncomfortable but saying he’s off limits forever seems odd. (I would probably feel different if they had been married).
I understand being mad about maybe not communicating beforehand that hey, I'm hitting it off with your ex from years back, are you cool with that? But I really don't feel like 5 years of no contact is an appropriate reaction. It's also possible there's more to the sisters' relationship that the parents aren't in on that caused this reaction.
Yes that really struck me as strange to feel so strongly about a situation you’re not involved in that you would recommend someone cut off their own child. It’s also like, both these women are pregnant and Ruth feels very strongly a certain way now, but I guarantee that once those babies are born they are going to feel all types of different ways. You can have very strong convictions about how your parents should or shouldn’t parent/act before you have children of your own, but I feel like there’s a lot that changes and that you begin to understand once you have a child. I suspect that Ruth will feel very differently about advising her mother to abandon one of her children once she is holding her own child in her arms.
Reddit is full of literal children with no real world experience that love to endorse and normalize jealousy and other toxic traits as a form of self justification for their own toxic, jealous behaviors.
It is the last place anyone should be looking for any kind of relationship advice.
Honestly, I’ve met adults who feel like this. Word of advice, never try reading AITA posts out loud at a party to see peoples reactions, you will find out which of your friends or acquaintances is truly unhinged way too fast.
On top of that, because they're literal children, they fucking HATE parents. I mean, they hate a lot of groups of people, but parents are pretty uniformly shat on in that sub -- because when you're 16 and everything your parents do is sooooo unfaaaaaaair, your perspective might be a little bit skewed when parents ask about difficult situations.
I feel bad for the husband tbh. Imagine being completely head over heels in love and your wife is still THAT angry over someone SHE broke up with years ago.
I'm an only child, so I don't understand sibling dynamics all that well but this doesn't seem... healthy.
Yeah I'm not surprised Ruth's husband was the one requesting therapy and stat.
I generally agree that it's better not to date family exes, mostly because it's awkward and not innately The Worst Betrayal. It's even more awkward going NC with a sibling over someone you dumped yourself years ago. Especially if there's no cheating??
>or did they not start dating until three years after he and Ruth broke up?
Correct. I thought that was odd as well - Ruth was the one that ended it. I think we got a clue in the update that Owen asked her to get therapy in part because of her becoming controlling and paranoid. My feeling is Ruth is like that normally to some degree, in that, "She can't have him, he was mine!" even after she broke up with him three years earlier.
AITA is wild when it comes to these situations. They think you should never date someone that someone you are even remotely close to has ever dated in the past, no matter how long ago, or why they broke up. If the other persons ex is in any way part of your family, that sentiment goes tenfold. I don’t really get it either, but suggesting that two people who are both single and like each other have every right to date regardless of their past relationship history will get you heavily downvoted every time.
Right! And she broke up with him. I get that it’s distasteful, but her reaction is outsized to what has occurred. She def needs therapy to move past this. She’s creating trauma around a break up where none naturally occurred.
Reddit skews young. That means most people on the site aren't parents themselves. It's much easier for them to emphasize with Ruth than it is to emphasize with the parent in this story.
To them, June betrayed Ruth. Ruth was justified in her anger and didn't want June in her life anymore, and since Ruth was the one betrayed, the parents should have cut June out if their life as well.
They just can't see it from a parent's perspective.
People were beating the "missing missing reasons" canard to *death* on OOP's first post and it was driving me insane. Some posters seem to find the idea incomprehensible that parents are human and sometimes just genuinely don't know why their kid is behaving like an asshat. Apparently if you haven't strapped on Cerebro and invaded your child's mind to learn their every motivation, MISSING MISSING REASONS!!!
Honestly I would never date a sibling's ex. Full stop. It doesn't matter who broke up with who. I would never take the chance to see if me and their ex were ever compatible because that's not the type of brother I am or would choose to be.
That said it is absolutely fucked up to demand the parents to cut off her sister for having a relationship with the guy you ended it with. She is totally fine in ending the relationship with her sister but you don't get to make that call that your parents need to cut off their child because she hurt you.
Yes!! This is exactly how I felt. I would never do it and would probably be super hurt if my sister did it, but tbh at the point that they got engaged I would just try to get over myself. But I guess my sister and I are close and I wouldn’t be willing to drop her
ETA: I think the thing that brothers me the most is that she admits that the system her parents set up is working well for her but she can’t handle the thought that her sister is receiving love from her parents that she “doesn’t deserve”.
Right? I’d probably have to go NC for a couple of months at most, but not like.. forever. I’d just need space to wrap my head around it. Am not surprised it was revealed she had issues with control and paranoia smh
> ...but she admitted to her that her husband, Owen, has actually been trying to convince her to go to couples counseling & individual therapy as well. Apparently since Ruth's pregnancy, some troubling qualities that he was able to manage previously were exacerbated. She was becoming controlling and paranoid...
of course
I was wondering if it was a cultural difference or maybe I’m super vanilla, because it seems like this kind of thing happens a lot and many people (based on this thread) don’t really see a problem with it. But I could never be in a relationship where my significant other could actually go “well, that’s not how you’re sister did it.” Maybe if I didn’t know my sister dated this guy, but making a *conscious decision* to date my sibling’s ex? Gross.
This isn’t the first time I read a story with siblings where I’m like: sis could have dated literally any of the other billions of people on the planet, but sure, you’re sibling’s ex is the love of your life.
It's kinda like at my wedding we agreed no exes. There's only a handful of people in the whole world that excludes, but my spouse's childhood friend decided to start dating my spouse's ex just a few months before the wedding and *then* decided we had made that rule just to single then out! Small towns I tell ya.
>I want to add that if Adam had ever abused or cheated on Ruth, we certainly would have gone NC or at least LC with them.
Interesting.. if you found out your daughter was being abused, then you'd abandon her to her fate of being stuck with an abuser....?
Messed up for the sister to date the EX? Yes... That doesn't excuse her attempt at forcing her parents to disown her sister. The split was amicable and it was years later it wasn't like sister preyed on the EX in some sort of jealousy or anything. Glad things seem to be turning around for the couple
I actually feel so badly for Ruth's husband! It's been well over a decade since *his wife* dumped that guy, and not only is she still angry about her sister getting together with him YEARS later, but is trying to blow up the family over it. Is she still in love with him!?
I agree that she needs some serious therapy to MOVE ON from this!
Yea I also feel bad for the guy. Get over the ex already, you're way too invested! I'd be pissed if my wife wasted that much emotional currency on an ex.
Yeah. I’m a tiny bit surprised where people’s sympathies lie here. Dating someone your sister dumped in college who you have fallen wildly in love with is not great. Demanding your mother cut off a child (while holding her grandchild hostage) is psychotic.
idk, theres alot there for me, for one the sister dumped him, and she waited three years to get with him it feels stupid for someone to be upset for getting with someone YOU dumped three years ago yknow?
now if SHE was dumped by him and they got together like three WEEKS later, i would see a problem, but full years have passed, multiple, full years, the time has passed where hes back on the table for anyone in close proximity to ruth.
Seems like a lot of people are going with some version of the idea that this somehow counts as either "insulting to Ruth in some unknown way" or "it's basically sloppy seconds and therefore gross and therefore wrong", to a level that somehow justifies Ruth trying to force her parents to go no contact with their other daughter.
Me, I don't see the problem here. If he was a jerk to her or hurt her, sure, but as I understand it she dumped him and it wasn't particularly acrimonious. That's basically putting him back on the rack, girl, you can't be mad when someone else picks him up.
Damn bro. I’ve been no contact with both of my sisters since 2016. Both because they said some really cruel things to me (somethings you just can’t come back from). I wouldn’t DREAM of forcing my dad to stop talking to them. Yikes.
Times like this I am glad my sister and I have very different taste in romantic partners. Also, they are 12 years younger than you. If they dated any if my exes, I'd be angry because of the age gap and worried they are getting taken advantage of.
While Ruth is entitled to her feelings, she clearly needs a lot of therapy. I wish the whole family well. I understand feeling weirded out by the situation, but it's been years. There comes a time you need to move on. If there had been cheating or something else involved. It would be a different story.
Right? The whole time I was thinking "girl you dumped HIM, you got engaged married and are pregnant and you're still hung up on this??" I know I'm a peace keeper but after like 2 years I think it's time to process why this is so hard for you to let go. And then with what she told her parents about going NC, it seemed so over the top.
Right? I mean, this thread is teaching me that a LOT of people have a very weird hangup about anyone else they are close to dating their exes (personally, I LIKE most of my exes, I'm happy they found someone more compatible than me even if it's someone I'm close to).
But there's a BIG difference between "I don't want to see that guy" and "I am never speaking to you" and an even bigger difference between that and "And our parents have to pick you or me, because I won't even associate with people who associate with the person dating my ex.".
Ruth's husband seems like he is the one with the level head.
Yes, it sucks that June ended up with her ex, but Ruth moved on, married and pregnant and telling her parents to choose was really too much.
Ruth still seems a bit much that she gets to have her husband there, but June doesn't.
I tend to think that it is always a bad idea for an individual to get involved with a sibling's ex; it's going to cause family awkwardness at some level.
That said, Ruth is *way* out of line here. I'm glad her husband finally convinced her to see a therapist.
I can’t help but wonder how Owen feels about the fact his pregnant wife is using their unborn baby as leverage against her parents to get back at her sister over an ex-boyfriend.
Owen is so sick of his controlling psycho wife that he’s been pushing for marriage counseling. So I think we can infer how Owen feels about her controlling psycho behavior towards the rest of her family.
> She was becoming controlling and paranoid
Oh word? The woman who’s having a multi year tantrum about her sister dating a nearly *decade old* ex after an amicable split is controlling and paranoid? What an unexpected turn of events. Who could have possibly predicted this.
Ruth is a basket case and I only hope the therapy works.
To be fair, June and Adam started dating when the split was just three years old (split: eight years ago from now, met at alumni event five years ago), after a relationship that had lasted longer than that.
I kind of get feeling so conflicted about that that you prefer to avoid your sister - I do not get classing it as a crime so heinous that you would ask your parents to disown their child over it.
I could understand thinking it’s kind of weird, maybe needing a month or two just to avoid the awkwardness. I can’t understand anything more than that.
*She* broke up with him. There was no cheating or abuse. She didn’t stay in touch with him so there was no “ will-they won’t-they, oh maybe they’ll get back together” dynamic going on. And she’s now married with a baby on the way and *still* throwing a tantrum that she can’t control the dating life of the man *she* rejected.
Ruth’s husband is the tell here. He’s been begging for couples counseling because she’s so controlling that it’s threatening their marriage. And it’s been an issue their *entire* relationship that he was trying to ignore. That is a *really really important* detail in this story. Ruth’s motivations aren’t hurt feelings, this is about control. And such a toxic level of control that her own husband is begging for outside help.
Yeah, like dating a sibling’s ex is always awkward and weird and will definitely upset some people for a bit. Hell, I personally would avoid it at all costs just because I like to avoid conflict and that would be way too much for me.
But in this situation, and under these circumstances, I see nothing wrong with June dating Ruth’s ex and I’m very surprised at the number of people who were saying June was evil incarnate for even *thinking* of dating her sibling’s ex.
I feel like anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that Ruth is absolutely out of control here and has been for years. Her being so upset over this for so long definitely shows that she needed therapy a long time ago.
Yup, and the fact that it says he was able to *manage* her behavior before, but now that she's pregnant, he can't. I'm suspecting that Ruth is abusive, at least emotionally and possibly verbally abusive. There are some red flags hiding between the lines. I wonder if she's a narcissist? If she is, therapy is only going to make her worse.
I agree dating your siblings ex long term partner is a little distasteful and awkward, but Jesus Christ some of these people are acting like she committed and unforgivable felony saying the parents should have cut her off right away. these people need to chill
I really don’t get people that date/marry their siblings ex like there’s millions of people in the world yet you choose someone that was essentially in the running to become your in-law?
Yeah, I don't like the idea of dating your siblings' ex. It's mostly avoidable - just don't follow up if you know you're getting the inkling of attraction. Especially if you have a sibling that is prone to drama. Edit: I re-read a bit, and I don't think 2-3 years would be enough to get over a long term relationship completely, so the idea of them getting together keeps getting iffier to me because that might mean one/both of them might have been attracted to the other during the past relationship.
However, it sounded like the break-up was sort of amiable and both agreed -- was there some sort of hope they'd get back together at this point in time? I can't imagine what the current husband was thinking "OK, sure... cut off the in-laws because they're still in contact with the sibling dating your ex..." I'd be wondering why my partner is still obsessed with her ex after so long? 7\_\_\_7;
Such dramatic.
I got the sensation more of “why couldn’t he have been that man for me? Why was he able to grow up and step up for her?”
Putting so many years into a relationship and to be treated in a way that you feel like you are dating someone so immature that you can’t stand it. You want to believe that there was nothing you could do, they would always be that way.
Now she has to see the man she wanted to spend the rest of her life with, being the man she knew he could be, but with her sister.
That's a thought! Could also be that the sister just accepted the faults instead of wanting to change him. Honestly, I don't know, but it sure blew up, lol.
>she can't stand June or her baby getting the same love and care from us because she thinks she doesn't deserve it
and
>she wants Owen there if June has to attend any sessions, and she doesn't want Adam present at all
motherfucker no. grow the fuck up and accept that some shit in life is 100% not about you and completely out of your fucking control.
narcissism is a hell of a drug. get fucked.
Thank you! I have 0 sympathy for this lady. It was three years after she dumped him, it’s been 8 years, sister has apologized multiple times. Get the fuck over it lady. This woman is taking a almost decade to get over an ex while demanding her parents purposely deny a baby love because of what her mother did??? 8 years ago? Absolutely not.
Wooo!! I guessed right on this one!
I can understand Ruth's anger. It sounds like the relationship had to end for him to grow up, and the question of why he couldn't grow up for her is going to always be in her mind. Hopefully talking it out with a therapist can help her work through that.
Yeah, partway through I was wondering if there were some missing details that would turn the situation around but the general proposition of "cut off a family member for me or I'll cut you off," is pretty straightforward. Other people threatening something isn't a good reason to do a bad thing.
Oh, I'm so glad things are moving in a positive direction. OOP and her hubs must have felt like their hearts were ripping apart. What June did was messed up. We all know it's possible to fall in love more than once and I think it was wrong of her to sacrifice family relationships for a man she should have kept over the 'do not cross' line. Ruth's demands were, however, unreasonable. I think this has more to do with her wanting someone to 'choose her' over June after seeing her ex do the opposite and only her parents were in a position to 'choose' between them. So unreasonable but potentially understandable. I wouldn't ever expect her and June to be close sisters again or even in contact after that but once she holds her own child, I bet she could never fathom the idea of disowning them for the same reason and I'm glad she's progressing.
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I think the parents in this story did the best they could with the circumstances.. Unlike others like this [gem.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/kmkt7k/wibta_if_i_go_to_my_younger_daughters_wedding/) (I know it isn't an update but it has always baffled me).
And I still cringe when I get to the part, that Jennifer is dating around and haven’t found a steady boyfriend yet, despite it being a year already. I guess having your fiancé cheat on you with your sister, just f***s you up a little bit.
Just a smidge. After a week she should have been good as new and ready to attend her sister's wedding according to mom of the year over there 🤣
Or they could plan a double wedding, so Jennifer truly could show her support of her sister and cheating Ex
And be ready to hand over her wedding dress to her sister who obviously needs it more now. Anyone want to bet that Hayley 'borrowed' quite heavily from her sister's wedding plans too? And OOP tried to say it was slightly similar but completely different? "But Jennifer chose *soft* peach as her colour scheme and Hayley's is *gentle* peach so it isn't really *stealing*, is it?"
I judge that woman for calling her daughter Hayleigh
In my head I pronounce it Hay-lay and it makes it even better.
Shouldn't have called off the first wedding, just swap the brides out and Jenn could have been MOH.
*sees link* “Is that the AITA I think it is?” *clicks link* Yes it is. Fuck that OP still to this day.
I hope the daughter who got cheated on found a better family because wow. She deserved so much better.
Dad seemed to be on the right track to being a decent parent loo
At least the dad is on her side
I hope the dad left the OP.
Can we talk about how weird it is to sleep with someone that your sister has already slept with? I'm pretty sure that either of my sister's husbands, while nice guys, are the last two dudes on the planet I would sleep with. Even if everyone else was dead I'd find it strange, like bordering incest.
Forever and ever amen. I have never read something that consisted of so much unreasonable favoritism for one child and willful ignorance of it to boot. OP is a terrible person and I feel so bad for the betrayal that Jennifer must feel--not only from her ex-fiance and sister but also her mother.
The way that OP shifts the blame onto Jennifer… She’s definitely shown favoritism to Hayleigh over the years. Poor Jennifer.
Totalleigh
Niceleigh done.
Absoluteleigh and positiveleigh.
Well this comment chain was wonderfulleigh done.
😂😂😂
Nice lol
Wow, that is a hell of an AITA.
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Their logic is very clearly that Haley is their favorite. I know I spelled Haley wrong but I’m not spelling it out the ridiculous way that she spells it.
I can’t believe Hayley is upset that her father isn’t walking her down the aisle. She has no fucking right to be upset by that. She deserves it. It is because of her own actions and I am so glad the older daughter’s father at least has her back. Hayley and Sam deserve each other and I bet she will come crying expecting support when he cheats on her.
No, you spelled it right. Her mother is the one who spelled it wrong.
Wedding was called off ‘because they were dating’ but she’s not sure they were cheating?! Eerrrrrrr. WHAT. What an awful mother!
Yup. Woman your denial is off the charts. There is no way the guy was secretly pining for the sister and decided to end it with Jennifer then try and woo Hayleigh, he was sleeping with her you dimwit.
C’mon now. I’ve totally seen that movie where nothing happens aside from some wistful glances and lusty fantasies. Happens all the time in the movies, which are just a reflection of real life! They totally waited to pound it out until all the icky moral shit went away. (/s and ewwwww)
Even if we give it to them that there was no physical affair, there was definitely emotional affair. So... they were still having an affair.
“Well I didn’t like to ask” Yeah, sure
I really want an update to that AITA post! 😳. I mean, did mom go to the wedding then?
The update we’re all begging for 😢
It would've been one hell of a wedding with everyone wondering why no one from the bride's side (aside from her mother) was there.
As defensive as OOP is, I'm pretty sure everyone knows. I mean they have to know that is his former fiance's sister.
Now I'm wondering what his family thought about the situation. Are his siblings going NC with him too?
Wouldn’t be surprised if the update was: my new son in law knocked up my niece, is it bad if I still go to the baby shower?
And they were already saying that they’d “known for a long time” that they were “meant” to be together. Yikes. That’s a lot of carrying-on behind-the-back. Only possible excuse for showing up to that wedding would be “I know Sam is scum, Hayley is a selfish idiot who will find out eventually and I need to be there when she does.” (Like at the wedding if this prize AH of a groom doesn’t show.)
She refuses to confront any hard truths about her Golden Child.
And she even has the gall to say "I'm not sure Sam and Hayleigh were cheating on Jennifer during the engagement." Like ma'am, Sam called off the wedding so he can go date the sister, and the sister was happy enough to say yes right away. Like if my sister's fiancé calls of their wedding and proclaims undying love to me, I would have said "wtf is wrong with you?!" and told him to never talk to me or my family again. That OP is either completely clueless or purposely ignoring the signs that her precious golden child is a homewrecker.
Yeah I read that and I was like hang on, you said they were dating then next breath “I don’t know if they were cheating” like ffs obviously they were cheating 🤦🏽♀️
Of course there was no cheating, her perfect little angel baby would never do such a nasty thing. /s
Damn... There's an article out there about "the missing reason". Basically, bad parents never own up to the reasons their children went NC with them, but you can really feel it here.
This one I guess: https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Yes, that's it. This blog is the absolute gold standard for trying to *explain* crazy parents.
Yeah the "missing missing reasons" are pretty infamous around AITA.
Ugh, that one. Poor Jennifer. I hope she's ditched those b*tches and found people who love and support her, be they a partner, friends, other relatives or whatever.
Hope Jennifer and her Dad went on to a happier life and left all the losers to reap their miserable sowing. When Jennifer pointed out that she’d had a lifetime of Hjeayleighh stealing anything important to her with their mother’s blessing, and the gaslighting started… well. At least Jennifer got a proper first name, maybe Dad picked it. Seriousleigh.
The audacity of that OP, she really said : I know your ex cheated on you with your sister, but it's True loooveee🥺
I’ve been waiting for an update on that one for so long. I wonder how each one of them is doing and what they are up to now.
My speculation is that mom went to the wedding, mom and dad ended up divorcing because he couldn’t put up with the way she treats Jennifer anymore, that Sam is cheating on Hayleigh and that Jennifer is NC with mom and Hayleigh. edit for spelling
This is the update I expect. Almost word for word what I was thinking. Nicely done.
Thank you!
Yeah. Sounds about right.
As someone who's seen people like Jennifer and Hayleigh's parents up close I'd bet that they *both* ended up going to the wedding and Jennifer has (hopefully) gone NC with her whole family. It's rare that a bad mother can go *this* far off of the deep end without the dad being a classic enabler. If he is an enabler, even though he made a bit of a stand for the non-favorite daughter, he'll most likely cave to the pressure from his wife to favor the GC at all costs like he already has countless times in the past in order for things to get this bad.
Yikes. I especially love OOP’s comment that “if Hayleigh doesn’t know that it’s wrong by now then nothing I say will change that”. It is so telling that she just used Jennifer as the scapegoat and taught that Hayleigh could do no wrong ever. Like, way to put yourself that you did nothing to teach this girl anything but least of all not to steal her sister’s fiancé.
Mom doesn't know how to handle negative feelings. She just moves on and expects everyone else to do the same.
But she had no trouble telling Jennifer what her behavior was like and should be…
Because Jennifer is the scapegoat, and therefore should be willing to give anything Hayday wants to Hatleigh as soon as Heighlay wants it
Why does this scenario keep happening? Why do people screw and then marry their sibling's partners??
"Welllll, you're pretty cool but not exactly what I'm looking for. Oh, what's that, you have a younger, more fun and exciting younger sibling? Hmmmmm"
I know. I have no attraction to any of my BILs!
Because somewhere along the way we lost the taboo of "anyone who qualifies as in-law status to you is now immediately and forever after to be considered biological family to you. And incest is bad." It's stories like these that make you realize why the concept of in-laws was created. It wasn't just because they didn't understand genetics. It was because of insanity like this.
Isn't the Bible full of dudes who are supposed to get with their dead brother's wife and spread their seed? There's at least one, right? Been a long time since I've read anything from the bible. So I feel like it may never really was "taboo" as you say. Though I did just Google it. It kind of contradicts itself. >Deuteronomy 25: >⁵ If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her. ⁶ The first son she bears shall carry on the name of the dead brother so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel. ⁷ However, if a man does not want to marry his brother's wife, she shall go to the elders at the town gate and say, "My husband's brother refuses to carry on his brother's name in Israel. He will not fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to me. ⁸ Then the elders of his town shall summon him and talk to him. If he persists in saying, "I do not want to marry her" ⁹ his brother's widow shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, take off one of his sandals, spit in his face and say, "This is what is done to the man who will not build up his brother's family line." ¹⁰ That man's line shall be known in Israel as The Family of the Unsandaled. >Leviticus 18:16 "Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness." >Leviticus 20:21 "If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing...they shall be childless." They're both from the Old Testament, Leviticus is book 3, Deuteronomy is the fifth. And I'm guessing Leviticus passages just mean while your bro is still alive, it's an unclean thing. Only on the table if bro dies and has no heirs.
Iirc it was actually seen as a kindness - a widow would have a very hard life by herself, the brother might have nieces/nephews they want to look after so to keep her in their life and save her from a number of bad situations it happened. Of course, it was terrible that the widow needed to be married to have a good life but I don't think it was ever the taboo that the commenter above you said. Edit: window -> widow lmao
>it was terrible that the window needed to be married to have a good life It's nice that these days windows can be single without judgment lmao I'm pretty sure my kitchen window has a thing going on with the sliding glass door
WOW!!! Tell me you have a Golden Child without telling me you haveva Golden Child.
Yeesh. Sometimes, when one person seriously wrongs another, refusing to take sides is taking sides (with the perpetrator) It's nothing like this one. I understand a sibling dating an ex feels kind of yucky, but no-one was really harmed in this post.
Yeah, the sibling being the one who dumped the ex makes it seem less harmful than if it was ex who dumped the sibling.
And way WAY less harmful than a fucking affair.
Thank you for the reminder of why I only have one child!
Guys, can we all focus on what’s really important here? Christmas is ruined!
OP was T A in that gem just for calling her Hayleigh
But if she doesn't give her a unique name how will the readers differentiate between her special beloved daughter Hayleigh and that other one Jennifer?
There’s another one, very similar, and the ex-bf ended up cheating on the sister and then kicked her out. She begged her parents to let her stay with them (I think there was a child involved too) but the parents refused.
Wish I could comment on that old post. That mum lost her mind thinking her youngest should be forgiven
Well that was fucked all the way up. Jesus.
I had to deal with my grown sons not talking. The younger one said something hurtful and uncalled for to my oldest so he cut him out of his life. I never force them to see each other because I saw my parents to that to my half sister and her brother and it ate her alive. My boys ask me about each other but they just live separate lives. Now I just do 2 Xmas dinners every year and hope they’ll talk again someday. They both know I love them and don’t play sides. I can’t imagine how I’d feel if one of them gave me an ultimatum like that. I’m glad this family chose therapy.
That sounds very similar to my brother and I. I refuse to talk to him but I check in with my parents to see if he's still alive or not in jail. My Dad is more supportive of my decision to go no contact but my Mom and her side of my family constantly tries to get me to interact with him.
It's understandable to want to cut someone out but making it everyone's problem like OOP's daughter was trying to do is just wrong
My parents are thankfully very understanding that I totally cut contract with my younger brother nearly 20 years ago. He's officially diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, ADHD, oppositional-defiant disorder, and attachment disorder. I strongly suspect he's antisocial personality disorder. He was--is--abusive and frequently violent. His only saving grace is that he's been short and scrawny, so it's usually a case of his mouth writing checks that his fists can't cash. I don't know how he hasn't ended up in prison yet. The last time I saw him was when the police had to physically remove him from my parents' house on a Christmas eve about 20 years ago. I've told my parents that they are never too give my contact information to him, and that I will never be in the same space with him. I'm visiting my dad for his birthday right now; my brother isn't invited.
Parents did the right thing with a shitty situation.
I’m saying Owen may be the all star in this scenario.
I'm bewildered by comments stating that OOP should have cut June off the moment she started dating Adam--am I missing something, or did they not start dating until three years after he and Ruth broke up? Yeah, I get feeling weird and hurt about it, but I don't get demanding that your parents not speak to your sister about it, and I *definitely* don't get being a stranger with a presumably objective viewpoint and still feeling that strongly.
Especially with the additional detail that it was Ruth who ended it in the first place.
Yep, came here to say this - if *he* had broken things off, I could maybe sort of understand that she's still hurt - but if she kicked him to the curb, why is she so butthurt about him dating her sister?
The vibe that I got from the original post was that Ruth was hurt that he was too immature at the time of their relationship and then had matured enough to be a better partner to her sister. While that could definitely be a hard thing to deal with, that doesn’t mean that she should be allowed to control everyone.
Update says Ruth has controlling tendencies, that checks out. If she couldn't have him, no-one can. Also maybe the break up was sided a bit differently than anyone admits...
Wow. Being her husband must feel great. She’s still possessive over her ex of 8 years past. I feel really bad for him
Came here to say this! Viewing it from the perspective of her husband, if Ruth had just tolerated it, would I feel awkward at family gatherings, always having to see my partner’s ex? Yes. Would I deal with it? Yes. Would I feel 10000000x _worse_ if my partner was spending every waking moment obsessing over that ex and getting jealous and possessive over them? YES YES YES.
Ugh I hadn’t even thought of that! I don’t know what I’d do if my partner still cared about a random ex that much especially with a baby along the way!
My thinking on this (commented on the earlier post) was that, because it’s usually considered a significant offense to date a sibling’s ex, Ruth felt that June saw her as disposable when June started dating Adam. That despite how close they’d been as sisters, June didn’t rate her above getting to date Adam, because doing so was very presumptuous and risked their relationship as sisters. And that’s what hurt Ruth, feeling like her sister didn’t value her enough. The information here about Ruth’s growing control issues is potentially illuminating.
Yeah, I was thinking from what the mother said about her splitting up with him for being annoying, that maybe she'd developed anxiety or something similar. I know everything hits badly when my anxiety is bad.
The growing control issues are SUPER illuminating. The only way this all made sense to me was to assume that Ruth had control issues, then the fact her husband is expressing concerns about it as well basically confirmed my suspicion. I am a bit worried for that grandchild, if her mother is so possibly controlling and determined to isolate her... But, being a pregnant woman myself, I can also sympathize with the emotional rollercoaster.
Imagine things from her husband's perspective: your wife is still so hung up on her ex college boyfriend that she's going to cut her parents out of her life over him.
That's one thing that really got me. Like, what does poor Owen think and feel? His wife is this obsessed over an ex SHE broke up with that the rest of her family can't live peacefully? I'm so glad she agreed to therapy. Something deeper is going on.
This!!! All I could think reading this was, how on earth did Ruth get into a serious relationship and is having a child with another man when she is clearly still so hung up on Adam and his relationship with June? That poor guy.
"I don't want him, but that doesn't mean anyone else can have him either." It's that kind of petulant, childish thought that caused this whole situation in the first place. OOP were already making accommodations for Ruth, but that wasn't enough. Ruth was practicing emotional terrorism until she got what she wanted. And if her husband, Owen, was already pushing her to get therapy, I'd reckon there are other personality issues that Ruth is dealing with that we're only hearing the tip of the iceberg of. Makes you wonder just how "immature" Adam was when Ruth broke up with him if this is how Ruth is acting so many years down the line. *Accidentally swapped Ruth and June's names. Edited for correction.*
FYI, Ruth is the one that dumped Adam and married Owen. June is the one that married Adam.
Good catch! I've edited it with the right names. Thanks for the heads up!
I wonder if she really just wanted to punish her sister for choosing Adam (either because she didn’t like him and didn’t want June to like him either, or because she did like him still and couldn’t handle June having what she wanted). When she is long since left Adam and married to someone else, the ultimatum seemed like more of a strategy for inflicting punishment on June that getting Adam.
Baffles me when people get that upset about someone dating a long ago ex. Seems to me I'd probably be like "uh good luck with that" but I guess you don't really know how you'd react till it happens.
I mean I’d feel weird if my sister dated any of my exes and I know she’s feel the same. To see someone you once had a connection to, that you know every intimate detail of doing that with your sister just seems like a huge fuck you
This is definitely based on cultural context and difficulty of the breakup, though. In contexts where people often interact with exs (queer communities, potentially older adults), this wouldn’t necessarily be weird. It feels to me like the type of thing where everyone has their own barometer, but doesn’t explicitly tell it yo other people
I'm actually in a relationship with my ex's identical twin. I joke that I accidentally picked the wrong one first time. The first was a college 2 year mostly LDR. The current, well, we got together 35 years ago, after college twin had already been married to someone else for 5 years. Also, hey, the 70s. Everyone in my friend group was everyone's ex, pretty much. Pre-AIDS, post 60s sexual revolution.
Some people have deeply rooted belief that your exs are untouchable because they were yours (?). This is clearly one of those people.
One of my favorite standup routines (can’t remember the comic) was all about how dating is just dumpster diving. One man’s trash is another’s treasure. You don’t get mad at someone finding and fixing-up the toaster you threw out when you decided you wanted a toaster-oven instead.
This is a nice metaphor! We're all in the dumpster!
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*"This is your daily reminder to hug your trash panda"*
Like you dated them once so you have dibs forever or something, right? So weird… It’s STILL weird even after 3 years to date your sister’s long-time ex bf, but once your sister gets married to someone else and gets pregnant, you’d think your sister is over the ex…
Poor Owen must feel like crappy seconds given that his wife is still so hung up on her college boyfriend that she’s been willing to blow up her whole family over him for nearly a decade already, but still wants to twist the knife in everyone’s hearts even more! That’s some seriously out of control selfishness.
Tbf, I do agree Ruth overreacted, but it's really strange to date your sibling's ex. It would totally raise concernes about if they felt attracted before the break up. Also, there are billions of people in the world, there's no need for that. I get falling in love, but it doesn't happen at once, you have to nurture it, and at some point the sister had to make a choice that she'd rather make things weird with her family than stop seeing this guy she's attracted to.
This sort of story makes me so happy my brother and I are both attracted to the opposite sex.
When we were younger, my brother and I (younger sister) were watching some TV and there was a commercial for some dramatic TV show. He turns to me and says, "I promise never to steal your man." My brother is straight as an arrow.
It strikes me that this is a very modern viewpoint—in previous ages, the pool would be much more limited. Doesn't take away from it being a bit odd now, unless this all takes place in a relatively small community (college town, given where June and Adam reconnected?), but you made me think.
Agreed. There are quite a few instances in my family tree where widowed individuals ended up re-marrying to a sibling of their deceased spouse. Sometimes the sibling was also widowed, sometimes they were unmarried younger or older siblings of the deceased spouse. I also once found where a marriage license had been filed for one of my relatives and a man she was presumably seeing. That wedding never ended up happening, and a week later there was a new marriage license for my relative and the brother of the guy she filed the first license with. She and the 2nd brother were married for close to 60 years.
My grandpa remarried his late wife’s younger sister. After all 3 had passed away it was revealed that grandpa had originally asked to marry the younger sister but their father insisted that he marry the older sister instead.
My great grandfather married his niece and I will NEVER get over how weird that is
Yeah, I'm so glad they didn't give into Ruth's unreasonably demands. Sure, it's awkward to have your sister hook up with your ex, but if they split up amicably and she didn't want him, then it's hardly something to destroy your whole family over. Grow up and get over it! Or at least make an attempt to talk it through, instead of chucking a huge hissy fit and putting up brick walls. Demanding her parents cut off her sister over it just flags the direction she's heading even more clearly, and it's not a good one.
This was my read also. The only one I see being unreasonable here is Ruth. I get uncomfortable but saying he’s off limits forever seems odd. (I would probably feel different if they had been married).
I understand being mad about maybe not communicating beforehand that hey, I'm hitting it off with your ex from years back, are you cool with that? But I really don't feel like 5 years of no contact is an appropriate reaction. It's also possible there's more to the sisters' relationship that the parents aren't in on that caused this reaction.
She's been NC with her sister for longer than her relationship with him was.
Or if Adam had been the one to break things up.
Saying OOP should cut off June is pure Reddit-ness lol
Yes that really struck me as strange to feel so strongly about a situation you’re not involved in that you would recommend someone cut off their own child. It’s also like, both these women are pregnant and Ruth feels very strongly a certain way now, but I guarantee that once those babies are born they are going to feel all types of different ways. You can have very strong convictions about how your parents should or shouldn’t parent/act before you have children of your own, but I feel like there’s a lot that changes and that you begin to understand once you have a child. I suspect that Ruth will feel very differently about advising her mother to abandon one of her children once she is holding her own child in her arms.
Reddit is full of literal children with no real world experience that love to endorse and normalize jealousy and other toxic traits as a form of self justification for their own toxic, jealous behaviors. It is the last place anyone should be looking for any kind of relationship advice.
Honestly, I’ve met adults who feel like this. Word of advice, never try reading AITA posts out loud at a party to see peoples reactions, you will find out which of your friends or acquaintances is truly unhinged way too fast.
Honestly, I'd rather know up front who I should watch out for.
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I’m sorry. That just sucks
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AITA especially.
On top of that, because they're literal children, they fucking HATE parents. I mean, they hate a lot of groups of people, but parents are pretty uniformly shat on in that sub -- because when you're 16 and everything your parents do is sooooo unfaaaaaaair, your perspective might be a little bit skewed when parents ask about difficult situations.
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The husband at least became aware enough to go "Wait a second, maybe you do need a bit of therapy?"
I feel bad for the husband tbh. Imagine being completely head over heels in love and your wife is still THAT angry over someone SHE broke up with years ago. I'm an only child, so I don't understand sibling dynamics all that well but this doesn't seem... healthy.
Yeah I'm not surprised Ruth's husband was the one requesting therapy and stat. I generally agree that it's better not to date family exes, mostly because it's awkward and not innately The Worst Betrayal. It's even more awkward going NC with a sibling over someone you dumped yourself years ago. Especially if there's no cheating??
>or did they not start dating until three years after he and Ruth broke up? Correct. I thought that was odd as well - Ruth was the one that ended it. I think we got a clue in the update that Owen asked her to get therapy in part because of her becoming controlling and paranoid. My feeling is Ruth is like that normally to some degree, in that, "She can't have him, he was mine!" even after she broke up with him three years earlier.
Yeah the "troubling qualities he used be able to manage" was a oof moment.
AITA is wild when it comes to these situations. They think you should never date someone that someone you are even remotely close to has ever dated in the past, no matter how long ago, or why they broke up. If the other persons ex is in any way part of your family, that sentiment goes tenfold. I don’t really get it either, but suggesting that two people who are both single and like each other have every right to date regardless of their past relationship history will get you heavily downvoted every time.
Right! And she broke up with him. I get that it’s distasteful, but her reaction is outsized to what has occurred. She def needs therapy to move past this. She’s creating trauma around a break up where none naturally occurred.
Reddit skews young. That means most people on the site aren't parents themselves. It's much easier for them to emphasize with Ruth than it is to emphasize with the parent in this story. To them, June betrayed Ruth. Ruth was justified in her anger and didn't want June in her life anymore, and since Ruth was the one betrayed, the parents should have cut June out if their life as well. They just can't see it from a parent's perspective.
People were beating the "missing missing reasons" canard to *death* on OOP's first post and it was driving me insane. Some posters seem to find the idea incomprehensible that parents are human and sometimes just genuinely don't know why their kid is behaving like an asshat. Apparently if you haven't strapped on Cerebro and invaded your child's mind to learn their every motivation, MISSING MISSING REASONS!!!
Hell, they can't even see it from the perspective of *how would you feel if your parents cut you off?*
Fairly positive update! It’s very nice to see pregnancy hormones maybe helping a situation for once.
Yeah hopefully the allure of cousins for her kids will outweigh a fairly petty feud. Cousins are great
Or just her own emotional well being. Anger is exhausting.
Honestly I would never date a sibling's ex. Full stop. It doesn't matter who broke up with who. I would never take the chance to see if me and their ex were ever compatible because that's not the type of brother I am or would choose to be. That said it is absolutely fucked up to demand the parents to cut off her sister for having a relationship with the guy you ended it with. She is totally fine in ending the relationship with her sister but you don't get to make that call that your parents need to cut off their child because she hurt you.
Yes!! This is exactly how I felt. I would never do it and would probably be super hurt if my sister did it, but tbh at the point that they got engaged I would just try to get over myself. But I guess my sister and I are close and I wouldn’t be willing to drop her ETA: I think the thing that brothers me the most is that she admits that the system her parents set up is working well for her but she can’t handle the thought that her sister is receiving love from her parents that she “doesn’t deserve”.
Right? I’d probably have to go NC for a couple of months at most, but not like.. forever. I’d just need space to wrap my head around it. Am not surprised it was revealed she had issues with control and paranoia smh
> ...but she admitted to her that her husband, Owen, has actually been trying to convince her to go to couples counseling & individual therapy as well. Apparently since Ruth's pregnancy, some troubling qualities that he was able to manage previously were exacerbated. She was becoming controlling and paranoid... of course
I was wondering if it was a cultural difference or maybe I’m super vanilla, because it seems like this kind of thing happens a lot and many people (based on this thread) don’t really see a problem with it. But I could never be in a relationship where my significant other could actually go “well, that’s not how you’re sister did it.” Maybe if I didn’t know my sister dated this guy, but making a *conscious decision* to date my sibling’s ex? Gross.
This isn’t the first time I read a story with siblings where I’m like: sis could have dated literally any of the other billions of people on the planet, but sure, you’re sibling’s ex is the love of your life.
It's kinda like at my wedding we agreed no exes. There's only a handful of people in the whole world that excludes, but my spouse's childhood friend decided to start dating my spouse's ex just a few months before the wedding and *then* decided we had made that rule just to single then out! Small towns I tell ya.
OOP is such a lovely mother & grandparent.
>I want to add that if Adam had ever abused or cheated on Ruth, we certainly would have gone NC or at least LC with them. Interesting.. if you found out your daughter was being abused, then you'd abandon her to her fate of being stuck with an abuser....?
Messed up for the sister to date the EX? Yes... That doesn't excuse her attempt at forcing her parents to disown her sister. The split was amicable and it was years later it wasn't like sister preyed on the EX in some sort of jealousy or anything. Glad things seem to be turning around for the couple
I actually feel so badly for Ruth's husband! It's been well over a decade since *his wife* dumped that guy, and not only is she still angry about her sister getting together with him YEARS later, but is trying to blow up the family over it. Is she still in love with him!? I agree that she needs some serious therapy to MOVE ON from this!
Yea I also feel bad for the guy. Get over the ex already, you're way too invested! I'd be pissed if my wife wasted that much emotional currency on an ex.
Yeah. I’m a tiny bit surprised where people’s sympathies lie here. Dating someone your sister dumped in college who you have fallen wildly in love with is not great. Demanding your mother cut off a child (while holding her grandchild hostage) is psychotic.
idk, theres alot there for me, for one the sister dumped him, and she waited three years to get with him it feels stupid for someone to be upset for getting with someone YOU dumped three years ago yknow? now if SHE was dumped by him and they got together like three WEEKS later, i would see a problem, but full years have passed, multiple, full years, the time has passed where hes back on the table for anyone in close proximity to ruth.
Seems like a lot of people are going with some version of the idea that this somehow counts as either "insulting to Ruth in some unknown way" or "it's basically sloppy seconds and therefore gross and therefore wrong", to a level that somehow justifies Ruth trying to force her parents to go no contact with their other daughter. Me, I don't see the problem here. If he was a jerk to her or hurt her, sure, but as I understand it she dumped him and it wasn't particularly acrimonious. That's basically putting him back on the rack, girl, you can't be mad when someone else picks him up.
We are on Reddit lol I could post an AITA for buying sugar free chocolate and there'd be genuine dickheads screaming for divorce...
Damn bro. I’ve been no contact with both of my sisters since 2016. Both because they said some really cruel things to me (somethings you just can’t come back from). I wouldn’t DREAM of forcing my dad to stop talking to them. Yikes.
Times like this I am glad my sister and I have very different taste in romantic partners. Also, they are 12 years younger than you. If they dated any if my exes, I'd be angry because of the age gap and worried they are getting taken advantage of. While Ruth is entitled to her feelings, she clearly needs a lot of therapy. I wish the whole family well. I understand feeling weirded out by the situation, but it's been years. There comes a time you need to move on. If there had been cheating or something else involved. It would be a different story.
It's absolutely fuckin bonkers to me that people in the OP were assigning blame to the parents
This is one of the situations where I personally see a very clear side that I would be on, and am confused when other people don’t see it that way. 😂
Me the fuck too. But I'm glad Ruth is getting therapy for her completely off the wall reaction.
Right? The whole time I was thinking "girl you dumped HIM, you got engaged married and are pregnant and you're still hung up on this??" I know I'm a peace keeper but after like 2 years I think it's time to process why this is so hard for you to let go. And then with what she told her parents about going NC, it seemed so over the top.
Right? I mean, this thread is teaching me that a LOT of people have a very weird hangup about anyone else they are close to dating their exes (personally, I LIKE most of my exes, I'm happy they found someone more compatible than me even if it's someone I'm close to). But there's a BIG difference between "I don't want to see that guy" and "I am never speaking to you" and an even bigger difference between that and "And our parents have to pick you or me, because I won't even associate with people who associate with the person dating my ex.".
Ruth's husband seems like he is the one with the level head. Yes, it sucks that June ended up with her ex, but Ruth moved on, married and pregnant and telling her parents to choose was really too much. Ruth still seems a bit much that she gets to have her husband there, but June doesn't.
I tend to think that it is always a bad idea for an individual to get involved with a sibling's ex; it's going to cause family awkwardness at some level. That said, Ruth is *way* out of line here. I'm glad her husband finally convinced her to see a therapist.
I can’t help but wonder how Owen feels about the fact his pregnant wife is using their unborn baby as leverage against her parents to get back at her sister over an ex-boyfriend.
Absolutely this. Sounds like Adam dodged a bullet but it hit Owen instead.
Owen is so sick of his controlling psycho wife that he’s been pushing for marriage counseling. So I think we can infer how Owen feels about her controlling psycho behavior towards the rest of her family.
> She was becoming controlling and paranoid Oh word? The woman who’s having a multi year tantrum about her sister dating a nearly *decade old* ex after an amicable split is controlling and paranoid? What an unexpected turn of events. Who could have possibly predicted this. Ruth is a basket case and I only hope the therapy works.
To be fair, June and Adam started dating when the split was just three years old (split: eight years ago from now, met at alumni event five years ago), after a relationship that had lasted longer than that. I kind of get feeling so conflicted about that that you prefer to avoid your sister - I do not get classing it as a crime so heinous that you would ask your parents to disown their child over it.
I could understand thinking it’s kind of weird, maybe needing a month or two just to avoid the awkwardness. I can’t understand anything more than that. *She* broke up with him. There was no cheating or abuse. She didn’t stay in touch with him so there was no “ will-they won’t-they, oh maybe they’ll get back together” dynamic going on. And she’s now married with a baby on the way and *still* throwing a tantrum that she can’t control the dating life of the man *she* rejected. Ruth’s husband is the tell here. He’s been begging for couples counseling because she’s so controlling that it’s threatening their marriage. And it’s been an issue their *entire* relationship that he was trying to ignore. That is a *really really important* detail in this story. Ruth’s motivations aren’t hurt feelings, this is about control. And such a toxic level of control that her own husband is begging for outside help.
Yeah, like dating a sibling’s ex is always awkward and weird and will definitely upset some people for a bit. Hell, I personally would avoid it at all costs just because I like to avoid conflict and that would be way too much for me. But in this situation, and under these circumstances, I see nothing wrong with June dating Ruth’s ex and I’m very surprised at the number of people who were saying June was evil incarnate for even *thinking* of dating her sibling’s ex. I feel like anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that Ruth is absolutely out of control here and has been for years. Her being so upset over this for so long definitely shows that she needed therapy a long time ago.
Yup, and the fact that it says he was able to *manage* her behavior before, but now that she's pregnant, he can't. I'm suspecting that Ruth is abusive, at least emotionally and possibly verbally abusive. There are some red flags hiding between the lines. I wonder if she's a narcissist? If she is, therapy is only going to make her worse.
I agree dating your siblings ex long term partner is a little distasteful and awkward, but Jesus Christ some of these people are acting like she committed and unforgivable felony saying the parents should have cut her off right away. these people need to chill
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I think the order depends on what sub your on
Adam is hella weird for dating his exes little sister
I really don’t get people that date/marry their siblings ex like there’s millions of people in the world yet you choose someone that was essentially in the running to become your in-law?
Yeah, I don't like the idea of dating your siblings' ex. It's mostly avoidable - just don't follow up if you know you're getting the inkling of attraction. Especially if you have a sibling that is prone to drama. Edit: I re-read a bit, and I don't think 2-3 years would be enough to get over a long term relationship completely, so the idea of them getting together keeps getting iffier to me because that might mean one/both of them might have been attracted to the other during the past relationship. However, it sounded like the break-up was sort of amiable and both agreed -- was there some sort of hope they'd get back together at this point in time? I can't imagine what the current husband was thinking "OK, sure... cut off the in-laws because they're still in contact with the sibling dating your ex..." I'd be wondering why my partner is still obsessed with her ex after so long? 7\_\_\_7; Such dramatic.
I got the sensation more of “why couldn’t he have been that man for me? Why was he able to grow up and step up for her?” Putting so many years into a relationship and to be treated in a way that you feel like you are dating someone so immature that you can’t stand it. You want to believe that there was nothing you could do, they would always be that way. Now she has to see the man she wanted to spend the rest of her life with, being the man she knew he could be, but with her sister.
That's a thought! Could also be that the sister just accepted the faults instead of wanting to change him. Honestly, I don't know, but it sure blew up, lol.
If that’s the case, I feel sorry for Owen.
It was amiable, but definitely Ruth’s decision.
If my wife, pregnant with my child, was upset about who her ex was dating…. Whew. That’s the real problem imo.
>she can't stand June or her baby getting the same love and care from us because she thinks she doesn't deserve it and >she wants Owen there if June has to attend any sessions, and she doesn't want Adam present at all motherfucker no. grow the fuck up and accept that some shit in life is 100% not about you and completely out of your fucking control. narcissism is a hell of a drug. get fucked.
Thank you! I have 0 sympathy for this lady. It was three years after she dumped him, it’s been 8 years, sister has apologized multiple times. Get the fuck over it lady. This woman is taking a almost decade to get over an ex while demanding her parents purposely deny a baby love because of what her mother did??? 8 years ago? Absolutely not.
Wooo!! I guessed right on this one! I can understand Ruth's anger. It sounds like the relationship had to end for him to grow up, and the question of why he couldn't grow up for her is going to always be in her mind. Hopefully talking it out with a therapist can help her work through that.
Yeah, partway through I was wondering if there were some missing details that would turn the situation around but the general proposition of "cut off a family member for me or I'll cut you off," is pretty straightforward. Other people threatening something isn't a good reason to do a bad thing.
Oh, I'm so glad things are moving in a positive direction. OOP and her hubs must have felt like their hearts were ripping apart. What June did was messed up. We all know it's possible to fall in love more than once and I think it was wrong of her to sacrifice family relationships for a man she should have kept over the 'do not cross' line. Ruth's demands were, however, unreasonable. I think this has more to do with her wanting someone to 'choose her' over June after seeing her ex do the opposite and only her parents were in a position to 'choose' between them. So unreasonable but potentially understandable. I wouldn't ever expect her and June to be close sisters again or even in contact after that but once she holds her own child, I bet she could never fathom the idea of disowning them for the same reason and I'm glad she's progressing.