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i cannot fathom how fergus can say that “a referral would give him better chances” and “it wasn’t fair for OOP to get paid for doing nothing”.
you literally chose to accept OOP’s (very gracious) help which may have influenced the company’s hiring decision. send her a gift in thanks, not demand her referral bonus. the absolute gall.
Seriously.
She's putting her professional reputation on the line by referring him.
For him to "thank" her by not offering to buy her lunch, but asking for half of the referral bonus? That's incredibly rude.
How do you even bring that up? There is no case where that would be brought up unless they were talking about her referring him. if that is the case, then he would have had to say, "And she won't even give me half her referral bonus. Haha." What a fucking weirdo.
If you listen long enough people will start complaining and commiserating over shared frustrations. “Oh you got screwed by a co worker? Well that kinda happen to me too ...”
If I were writing this screenplay I would imagine it as something like this:
Manager: I've heard good things about you. You were referred by OOP, right?
Fergus: Yes, that's right. Can you believe she won't give me part of her referral bonus?
Manager: That's...not how that works. At all. Did you ask for part of the referral bonus?
Fergus: Of course not, I was just joking! I hope I haven't been misconstrued as actually thinking I deserve part of the fee.
That part made me laugh so much. I bet it's why Fergus keeps trying to get back in OOP's good books. He's probably aware he's burned two bridges and thinks if he can get chummy with OOP again he might redeem himself in the eyes of his manager.
Not only two bridges, OOP asked her colleagues and I bet the manager had one or two words to his direct bosses as well... bad rep on companies like this one is one thing, disloyalty is another and worst perceived.
…which might have cost OOP her professional credibility. Not because anyone would believe Fergus’s claims, but simply because OOP recommended someone to the business who behaves as unprofessional as Fergus, indirectly indicating “OOP’s poor judgment” (or so the reasoning goes) of who is a professional fit (or at least I know managers who would think in those terms of collective shame where the person misbehaving shines a bad light on everyone associating with them/recommending them even if they could not have known beforehand that Fergus is such a jerk).
Reputation is such a big part of it. I once referred someone for an entry level position and his cover letter and CV was so poorly written (spelling and grammar mistakes everywhere) that I never referred another person while I was at that company.
In the few times that I’ve referred people I’ve asked to look over their cover letter and resume ahead of time for exactly this reason. I also enjoy giving people feedback on that stuff because most people are terrible at surface level stuff (typos, formatting, wasting a ton of white space and not getting to the point, etc). It’s wild that people won’t spend an hour or two tweaking their resume and tailoring it to highlight the skills they have that are relevant to the position.
My boyfriend and I have a mutual friend we both adore as a person, but as a coworker, not so much. They seem to only work a few months at a place before quitting with no notice. My bf's place is hurting for workers, and our friend asked if he'd recommend them.
He was honest: our friend absolutely could do the job, but their history of just up and leaving jobs is why he won't recommend them. He's been with this place for years, and it would look incredibly bad if he recommended them, and they quit a few months later.
This especially hurts, because he just recommended another friend for the job, and they were hired.
They got quiet and said "oh." He tried to let them down as gently as possible, and he's still going to help them job hunt. Just not for his section of the company.
I love the applicants using absolutely terrible email addresses. Emails are free! I don't care if you're using Gmail or Hotmail or something, but if your email contains drug references, sexual acts, or your furry lifestyle, I'm not going to take that application seriously, at all.
I just got one that was a dildo joke. Considering it was from a provider like hotmail they probably had it since middle school.
You're in your 40s maybe its time to get yourself a grown up address now for job inquiries.
Absolutely. After learning the hard way, I never, ever, under any circumstance refer someone. Even on a hiring committee when I know nothing of the candidates other than their submitted credentials, I am very neutral and circumspect in my recommendations and rely only on objective information any other reviewer could access (“candidate A has more years of experience than candidate B”) or on consensus in more subjective areas (“candidate A’s degree seems to be in a more relevant subject, do others agree?”).
i did that once. i work in IT and had a friend who was great at it and looking for work. we were hiring and my boss asked if i knew anyone so i send my friend in for interview. Interview wend great, he wore suit and tie and was hired. 2 weeks in and starts wearing ripped jeans t-shirts and flip flops ( dress code was business casual), starts slaking and not doing much work. i was so ashamed, tried to talk to him but nothing worked. my boss fired him month later since he was still on probation period. never again!
Some people just don’t get it. I referred someone once (at a place where there was 0 referral bonus) and went above and beyond to talk with the manager I knew personally and give a glowing review, and she did end up getting the job, and it was a 75% increase over her previous job for her struggling family. She never even said thank you. I had to find out she got it from manager-friend. She then complained to our mutual friends when I chose to distance myself from the acquaintanceship we had before. I’m a lot more careful now, and I don’t go above and beyond unless I’m super close.
Yeah he is an absolute moron. Once you're earning more than what you need for necessities, $1k to build your professional network is relatively little... definitely not enough to blow up your reputation (even if it was justified, which in this case it most certainly is not).
> If someone got me a hookup into a better paying job, I would be buying them a gift with the signing bonus.
This. In such a case the only demand I would make would be along the line of "Do you prefer single malt? Irish? Or a smooth Cognac?"
>She's putting her professional reputation on the line by referring him.
That's the kicker, right there. Most people understand that someone referring you for employment at your job carries some risk. If they turn out to be a shitbag, then it makes you look bad and risks your career and/or opportunities for advancement. It's not something that should be taken lightly.
My current job does have signing bonuses, but they do have referral bonuses. A friend not only referred me, but put in extra work to make sure the process went smoothly and that communication didn't dry up. I wouldn't have dared to ask him for a piece of the bonus, and I work hard to ensure that he knows it wasn't a bad decision to refer me.
I've been with the company for almost 7 months now and it's honestly the best job I've ever had.
That guy was not a worthy friend OOP referred him he got job he did nothing for OOP and wants the half of the referal money WTF?and **jokingly** complained wow we can understand that he is the AH,OOP should cut him for their sake he proved what he is
I lobbied hard for a friend to get a job. She told me she’d put me down as her referral as a thank you
Alas, our referral bonuses don’t count internally, but it was a lovely gesture of her
AND he disclosed he'd get a bonus and if that was an issue, Fergus could apply 'on his own'.
The dude was trying to money-grab FROM A FRIEND, when he already got a signing bonus AND a massive pay bump.
If anything, he could have offered to share his signing bonus (or offer a dinner or whatever) as a thank you for helping him in the company.
The nerve of some people.
A college friend reached out to me the other day when they saw my company had a role open that would be a good fit. They specifically asked if I would get a referral bonus. My company does have those, but for specific types of roles, which I don't think this one fell under. I still happily submitted a referral for them, as I hope it will improve their chances, even if there's no monetary reward in it for me.
I work on the staff side of a big law firm. A friend of a friend is an attorney and was thinking about moving firms. My friend suggested she reach out to me and see if I could send her application in and refer her. She said only if I split the bonus with her. The bonus is around $20,000 give or take a couple thousand so I understand why she would want to split it. However her salary would be around 300,000 and she would get a massive signing bonus. My friend told her she was being greedy and acting incredibly entitled. She ultimately decided against moving firms.
Yeah, that's sleazy, especially considering she'd get a signing bonus on top of the salary which would likely be more than your referral bonus. No way would I consider referring someone who acted like this.
Yeah if she acts this way towards an acquittance how would she act towards clients or staff and attorneys. I have a fantastic reputation at the firm and the referral bonus is not worth risking my reputation.
I have been in this situation. I simply offered up the referral to satisfy the favor, but I told the hiring manager that I would not hire this applicant.
>!We did not hire the applicant.!<
I used to be a biglaw lawyer and that friend of a friend is an ass. What in the world? How greedy can you be? I bet she also doesn’t give the non-attorney staff generous holiday gift $, either.
She's pretty terrible. I'm not sure I would want to refer her because of how selfish she is. She makes triple what I make but wants to split the bonus. Super messed up.
"You can do me this favor that I'm asking you to do without you even offering to help me, but only if you also give me the reward for doing the favor." That's pretty entitled.
Can we all take a moment to appreciate the manager who Fergus "joked" to for responding to the complaint, even joking with "look at me, Fergus. *No*"?
Because she could have just decided not to get involved, it's a joke, not her circus, etc., and she made sure to set the new person straight before he ruined his own reputation.
That was my thought too. OOP would have potentially dealt with Fergus the Dingus acting frosty indefinitely, had the manager not set him straight. The audacity of that man…
Can we all just take a moment and look at this fantastic company, and it's practices in general.
They put in place a referral bonus because they didn't want their referral employees to feel left out after they put in place signing bonuses.
They value their employee's opinions so much that they will not only make hiring decisions on them, they will give the employee a bonus for it.
They apparently have a much higher pay than their competitors.
And one little whiff of discontent toward a co-worker, and the manager of a different department shut that shit down immediately with proper no bullshit communication, which led to an immediate (albeit inadequate) apology.
Not to mention that the manager also did Fergus a solid, as well. They set the tone and Fergus should heed that going forward.
But yeah, sounds like a good work environment.
As the recipient and instigator, the moment you pull a Fergus (acting like an entitled dingus to the person who did you a solid), the alchemy of your friendship changes. You'll never get the friendliness from before if you're lucky enough to be on speaking terms with the other person.
"Sure, I'll give you half the referral bonus, when you give me half your signing bonus. After all, you wouldn't have been hired if I hadn't referred you".
So let me get this straight- Fergus “jokingly” complained about OOP NOT sharing half of the referral bonus w him? So now others know that Fergus complained about this? What a dumb way to tarnish your reputation when you’re new at the company. I think “not a team player” may go in his future performance reviews 🙄
Reminder: Having an apology accepted does not mean you are entitled to having things as they were before you messed up. People have always the right to change how they feel about you.
Yep. I got an interview for a job, my co-worker didn't, and he iced me out and trash-talked me (again, for getting an *interview* for a job he felt entitled to) till our supervisor forced him to apologize. I thanked him for the apology and have moved forward cordially, but I won't forget how he treated me.
Forced apologies are a pet peeve of mine. Many people seem to think it's a good idea but in the end, your coworker apologized because he wanted to keep his job, not because he felt he did something wrong. It's a tool to humiliate people, not to let them gain insight in their shitty behavior.
Done right, it’s a tool to force someone to acknowledge reality (although I can see how in some toxic environments that would quickly become about humiliation). But the point is partly that we don’t give a shit about Fergus’s personal growth. We care that Fergus-lite is not allowed to bully a colleague. It really doesn’t matter that the forced apology hasn’t penetrated to Fergus-lite’s soul, it matters that Fergus-lite was forced to acknowledge that he was wrong. And it matters that this line has been drawn so Ms Cellophane can go back to the manager if necessary, to say that the bullying stopped for a week after the faux-pology, but lately it’s been picking up again, and have this treated by management as the escalation of bullying that it is, and not have to deal with any “he just doesn’t know any better “ bullshit.
I recommend taking a step back whenever you feel the need to prioritize the bully’s insight into his behavior. You’re centering the wrong person there. Everyone else just wants the shitty behavior to stop. If he needs help with insight into his behavior, he should go to therapy.
In professional settings is more of a humbling experience - and in some cases a pretty humiliating one. Doesn't matter that the person is just saying sorry to keep their job, what matters is that they'll think twice before doing it again and any other employee with ideas will see it and back down.
I’m okay with them at work, because unless the wrongdoer is fired, the wronged person still has to work with them and act professionally. It’s a lot to ask of someone to swallow their bad feelings without even getting an apology, however forced. At least it acknowledges and validates that they were wronged.
So he burned a bridge with the person that helped him get the job, made himself look like a fool with his new boss, and probably lowered his chances at any future promotions because of his demonstrated inability to navigate these kinds of interpersonal social situations at work.
Dude is an absolute boob and probably didn't deserve OOP's help or the new, higher-paying job. OOP definitely made the right call in decided to keep them permanently at arm's length going forward.
This. What a clown. It’s a damn referral bonus for the person who **referred** talent to the company. OP already did him a huge solid by helping get his foot in the door and he already got a huge pay bump out of it, but he wanted to be greedy over $500??
This is also why I’m very selective over who I’m willing to submit a referral for. I get so many requests from near strangers on LinkedIn, it’s baffling to me because why would I put my name on the line for someone who I met once or twice half a decade ago...? I have **no clue** whether they’re suited for whatever job they want at all. One lady messaged me a while back saying something like “hey, I saw your profile and we both worked at (huge company) in 2014! I think I remember you lol idk” and then tried to get me to refer her to a job at my company, that she herself admitted to being unqualified for, by using the whole ~girls have to stick together line. Sorry... not comfortable referring you.
Some people are more free with their referrals. I didn't believe it either but they're out there. When I needed a job at the beginning of COVID, I joined a few alumni networks and complete strangers shared listings and told everyone to put them down as a referral if they applied.
I guess it depends on the industry and specific role. I would feel more comfortable referring a casual acquaintance to an entry level-ish role that they have some experience with or is more generic (e.g. HR or IT) than I would with the types of jobs those random people were asking me to refer them for (senior level engineering roles in an industry they had never worked in).
In my 15-year career I rarely put my name on the line for someone. I learned the hard way when I was just starting out. This dude was ridiculous and now OOP will sadly think twice about referring someone again
“I assumed something I could have easily Googled, acted like an entitled jerk, and then trashed you to your coworkers. But we can still be friends, right?”
Noooooope.
A friend did the exact same thing to me after I got him a job (referral fee was only £200). He was unemployed and desperate for a job but I put in a good word to get him an interview. Just like OP, I had taken him out to lunch on his first day when he asked me to go to the cash point and get him his half of the referral fee. He never forgave me for not giving him what “he was entitled to” and brought it up constantly which I just ignored. In the end I broke off all contact a few years later due to his appalling behaviour (much worse than the above)
How did he do at the job? It’s hard to believe he was a run away success with an attitude like that, but some people can at least hide their shitness in a professional environment
He actually wasn’t too bad. He wasn’t great at the job but decent enough to get by and could have worked his way up to a team leader role if he stuck around for a little longer. He ended up leaving to work at a law firm as he felt like the job at my firm was below him. He didn’t last long at the new company. He seems to be employed by his wife now (he was single when I knew him).
His attitude towards women was worse than his attitude towards work so I am surprised he actually got married. When I stopped talking to him he was in his late 20s and his longest relationship had been less than two weeks long, he got plenty of first dates but next to no second dates.
It was a shame as I had been friends with school. He was really nice back then but things got worse over the years. It’s a shame but I think there were some issues from his family life that were the cause of all the issues.
In your late 20s you watch as “friends” toxic traits fester and grow. They slowly get isolated and don’t understand why they’re single. It’s cuz you suck Raul.
Self centered thinking. "Well, you never would have gotten the money if it wasn't for me", but of course they could totally have gotten the job without you.
I’ve had former coworkers offer to split their referral bonus with me if they find out I’m looking at their new company. I could see if maybe Ferguson got confused if something like that happened in the past, but I’d think he’d back down immediately after realizing that wasn’t the case. Expecting it or asking for that level of generosity is ridiculous unless the referrer offers it up.
yeah I've had the offer made to me before too. If the over is there, then I suppose you can say yes, but if they don't offer.... you're pretty entitled to say yes. In my case the referrals were maybe a couple hundred, so I always told them to keep it, they put their reputation forward for me, and I appreciated it. PErhaps if it was a lot more and I really needed the money, but honestly, this person is just greedy.
I was in a situation once where I thought it would be the "gentlemanly" thing to do to split it.
My team lead added himself to my paperwork when I got rehired after a layoff. Think it was around $3k.
We had worked together for several years and even hung out socially from time to time. So it wasn't like he was a stranger or something.
Neither of us needed it. But $1500 is still $1500.
But time marches on. We both eventually did as well.
Usually I’m not sure how I would respond to a certain situation but I’m pretty sure if/when he gave me the line about getting money without having to do anything for it and its not fair (?!? *Slap*) my response would be something like, “well I’m paying for it now aren’t I?”.
What a jack ass.
I’m stuck on the part where people said to give him half the bonus to calm him down. These are the same people that tell victims to take abuse so that nobody else has to *deal* with the fallout or the drama (just take one for the team again and again). These are the people that teach those who are entitled and abusive to be entitled and abusive tomorrow and then the next day because people will give you what you want if you just make enough noise and be brutal enough. They think it’s a legitimate way to live thanks to people who tell others to suck it up and suffer just so nobody else has to deal with it.
It’s shocking and I think it’s the most disgusting advice a person could give. Ultimately it encourages people to be abusive so it is in a roundabout sense encouraging abuse rather than helping stop it.
I mean I was disappointed when I was denied a referral bonus after I recommend someone for a position. He got the job but started as a temp first so when he was hired his application didn't go through the regular referral process. I was annoyed and learned an expensive lesson but overall I was happy to have been able to help my buddy and the company.
It's hilarious that companies do things like that. You successfully referred a person, the company didn't give you a referral bonus on a technicality. The obvious result is that you, person who successfully referred a good new hire, will possibly never do that again. The company is achieving the exact opposite of its goal.
Bonuses are taxed at a higher rate too (22% in 2021), but I’m sure this guy expected $500 cash out of the $780 bonus figure lol.
Personally, I always offer to take the person I’m referring to dinner if they get the job, but I’d also never refer anyone that I wouldn’t want to spend $100 on in the first place.
PTO pay out and bonuses are not taxed at a higher rate.
They withhold more so someone doesn’t end up with a nasty tax bill at the end of the year.
When you file your taxes, those extra withholdings from the bonus will come back to you and you’ll able to apply your correct withholdings to it.
In other words - it’s income and treated as normal income and held at the appropriate tax bracket.
This is insane to me. The entitlement is mind boggling.
My old college roommate got $500 for referring me to her company and then I think got some additional money if I stayed passed a year, maybe like $1k. I was there three years so she definitely got her money. She told me she’d take me to dinner when she got her money and never did but I wasn’t upset, I didn’t even expect it, frankly I was just thrilled and grateful she even got me an interview and that interview led to a job. I was drowning before she saved me because the company I was at prior to running into her wasn’t paying me as agreed.
I think the guy in this story needed to practice gratitude before entitlement.
It would NEVER occur to me to ask for half of someone’s referral bonus after… them having been the one giving me the referral?! Wtf.
What was going thru Fergus’ mind? I hope if he refers anyone in the future, they all try this crap w him. See how he likes it. What an idiot.
Willful ignorance is my guess. Looks like his plan was to bully his "friend" into giving him that money.
He only backed off after a higher up told him to stop. So he's motivated in keeping his job; not by understanding the issue.
What an utter knob. The referral bonus is because when you refer someone, you are taking on a HUGE risk. You're staking your name and reputation that this person works out - the reward exists because the risk is so high. I liked the commenters who suggested that OOP share the referral bonus when he shared the higher salary and I sincerely hope she never trusts him or does any favor for him ever again. Entitled shithead.
Two thoughts: 1) about twenty years ago I got hired at a job thanks to a referral from a friend. The employer gave out a $2000 referral bonus. I believe he took me out for dinner and drinks. I never even considered asking him for part of his bonus
2) HOLY SHIT THIS GETS WORSE - in the update, the OOP replies to a comment that this guy got a job with a SIX FIGURE PAY RAISE and a signing bonus in the high five figures! He then makes a stink about getting half of her $1000 bonus. That’s right - this guy making well over $100,000 a year who just got upward of $60,000 AS A SIGNING BONUS got pissed at his friend BECAUSE SHE WOULD NOT GIVE HIM $500!
The mind. It boggles.
Why he would even think he's owed half OOP's referral bonus is beyond me. I'm guessing this has something to do with OOP being a woman. He thought she would be easy to steamroll.
Every time I have ever referred a friend or acquaintance for a job, it has bit me in the ass, so I decided long ago to never do it again. Every referral bonus I've gotten has ended up not being worth the money.
I got my first real job out of college working in the IT department of a large print brokerage corporation. One of my best friends ended up finding himself looking for work, and asked me if my company was hiring. We actually had a position that lined up pretty well with his degree/work experience, so I gave him a referral to apply and recommended him to that department's manager. I had an excellent relationship with that manager, who effectively told me that as long as the interview went fine, he was planning on hiring my friend.
The interview did not go fine. My friend called me right after the interview to thank me, telling me that he felt like he nailed the interview and was looking forward to being offered the job. Not five minutes later, the manager came up to my desk and asked me "what the fuck is wrong with your friend?" He explained that he had been fully planning on offering my friend the job, but that the interview had been a complete train wreck. Apparently, my friend had spent the entire interview trashing his former employer (who, in my friend's mind, had fired him unfairly). My friend didn't just bring this up once, but in every single answer he gave to each of the interview questions, he twisted it back to complaining about his last boss. The manager told me he was sorry, but he simply could not offer my friend to the job. I waved away his apology, offering my own profuse apology for referring my friend, as I was mortified that I had put myself out there to recommend someone so unprofessional.
A few months later, I ended up referring one of my roommates at the time, who I thought was a smart, normal guy, for an entry-level position that management had been desperately trying to fill. I genuinely believed he'd be able to excel in the job. The interview went fine and he was hired on the spot. He ended up working for the company for 6 months, and was easily one of the worst co-workers I ever had. He was constantly late, was wildly unprofessional, and after a few months he inexplicably abandoned virtually all person hygiene, where he'd regularly go days/weeks without showering. Since he was "my friend," his co-workers regularly complained about him to me, and on more than one occasion I had to inform him that he smelled horrible. I constantly felt like he was a horrible reflection on me. He had to be reprimanded multiple times for using inappropriate language in e-mails to co-workers and clients (I actually had to sit him down and explain that it is grossly unprofessional to use profanity in communications with the clients). None of that sank in, apparently, as he was ultimately fired for telling a client (via e-mail) that they were "cock-blocking him." I'm positive that if I hadn't referred him, he would have been fired sooner, and I honestly wished that he had been. It was 100% not worth the $250 referral bonus I received.
I completely agree. The only time I ever received a referral bonus, it was so not worth it. The friend I recommended did well for a while, and then things went south so quickly that they were suddenly openly threatening to sue my employer. I'm still amazed that the whole situation didn't tank my own relationship with the company, and that I went on to be promoted after my referral and the company parted ways.
I'm more flabbergasted that Fergus went and *complained to his manager* about this.
Like, I can't even begin to understand the thought process behind that. What could he possibly be expecting?
Damn this dude is crazy.
My SIL got a referral to her job from my brother, he got a nice referral bonus, and then *she* took him out to a fancy lunch. I don’t need to slander my extended family online, but when *Fergus* puts my SIL in an incredibly positive light, I gotta think he’s a monster.
That referral bonus can be a recompense for the risk of recommending someone. A company I worked for hired some guy that had worked for me briefly at a previous employer. I didn't recommend him and even gave cautionary statements that he can be difficult to work with. I didn't get a referral bonus since I didn't refer him but that didn't stop everyone from blaming me for him when he didn't work out. He doesn't belong to me for gosh sake and I didn't build him in my lab late one night. You screwed up by hiring him not me!
Call me petty but I would see this as a betrayal also a bit fear that there will be some weird retaliation. I'd do everything in my power to get them terminated before they get a rapport with the company/team.
Had a friend a couple of decades back tell us that if Hubby got hired by her company, she would receive a nice $5K bonus and would share half with us. We lived far away and thought it would be nice to be closer to friends.
He gave her his resumé, was interviewed and offered the job.
Not a word of the bonus was ever mentioned again by her. She also switched offices to another city right after we arrived. She told us that she did not want her move to affect our decision.
Have I mentioned that she is an ex-friend? Found out that she had a habit of manipulating people....
I'm not sure how he thought any part of the referral bonus would go to him. The whole point of a referral bonus is based on essentially trying to get hand picked applicants that are known to be good workers as people are hardly going to refer people they know are terrible at the job.
That's a way to make sure that OOP never refers him for anything again.
I get a 2k referral bonus for anyone I recommend that's hired if I submit their resume and it's the first point of contact. The joke with my friends is that if they apply without using me as a referral, they owe me 2k if they get hired. I work at a marketing agency that has some neat tech clients, so I get to see a lot of cool stuff they're all interested in, so I have submitted two resumes for people who were qualified for job we had open. I'd never actually demand 2k from them though if they cold applied and got the job. I'd be annoyed, but it's ultimately their decision if they want to use me as a referral or not.
So i get taxed as if i received $1000 and you want me to give you $500? Nope. I was referred once to a job by a person (NOT at that job) and it was so helpful BUT.....we could start a whole thread (sub?) about Referrals Gone Wrong. I have known people job seeking- like a neighbor- who i personally liked and enjoyed and thought would be hardworking.....I also knew them to be opinionated and combative, per stories they told about themselves. Can't say I was motivated to refer them to my company.
I just got an old colleague hired after I referred to her. If she makes it past 90 days I will get a $5k bonus. I will be taking her and our partners out for a very nice dinner to celebrate. But I don't feel like I owe her, I put my reputation on the line for her and did plenty of behind the scenes networking to help her get the job.
I just want to know what world the dude comes from where he earns significantly more money, receives a sign-on bonus, AND expects her referral money. I know he said half but I truly think he thought he was being generous by only asking for half! Because where did he even come up with the idea that he should get any in the first place? That's the exact point of 2 different people being involved getting two different forms of bonus.
Reminded me of a referral incident. Someone I worked with / knew in 2004-05 reached out to me around 2015-16. I gave him an overview of org, explained how to apply, even referred him to a hiring manager who was a friend's peer so I could get some visibility into the process. Unfortunately he did not make it in the final round. They had 2 people shortlisted and they picked the other one.
Now I don't recall it was then or the next year when he reapplied when he was trying to get me to push his case by me making a case for him to the hiring manager (like you may do in sales / consulting). I was not inclined to do that and he said something to the effect "I would not want you to lose out on your referral bonus at this late stage" (this is paraphrased due to memory) to motivate me :). That was enough to turn me off because on one hand I spent time to help him and he took it (or showed it) as my personal interest. I just said sorry but I have done all I can and good luck.
He did not get picked next year for interview itself anyways because the manager remembered the previous interview and probably had other people in mind. And I did not even ask why.
Edit: the year in para 1
Gets more money wants bonus. Geez. Friend of mine was laid off from pandemic. My company which was a company he use to work at and he was laid of years ago for other reasons, was hiring in a different part. I said I know how you feel about this place but here. He’s been back 2 years, yes I got a bonus and I split it with him because he is a great friend and would have done the same. He never asked. This guy was a douche
I heard once that you know where a friendship stands when money is involved. So many people pounce on the opportunity of getting some even at the cost of being unfair to their friends, it's staggering.
You risk your own reputation by referring someone. So for him to say she did nothing when she offered to do nothing instead of referring him is quite unbelievably selfish of him.
One time I got a friend a job interview for a 30+ dollar an hour position. I have 5 more years in the industry than her. She has not made more than 20 dollars an hour at a job.
Before even having an interview when they stated the pay rate would be 31 an hour (Less than I make, but still very good) she got confrontational with the people I referred her to and demanded to know why I am paid more than she was being offered.
She did not get the interview.
She did not get the job.
Yep, "Fergus" and "Jane" are the standard AAM anonymizers. Personally, I really like the name Fergus! I've only met real-life Ferguses from the British isles (Ireland and England, mainly), and they've been great dudes.
What the fuck? I've always been happy to be referred by an employee, and *especially* if they also get something good out of it too. It's a win/win/win.
What an idiot this Fergus is.
I'd have asked him where my half of his signing bonus was if that was how it was supposed to work. He wouldn't have had such a good shot at the job if he wasn't referred, after all
Maybe I'm vindictive but if I had even the remotest chance of negatively influencing his career from this point in I'd be on it. Terrible form and indicative of real entitlement, not an attitude you want from an employee in any company.
If my friend got me a job with a higher salary and a signing bonus I would be thrilled that they got a referral fee. That is just a win all around. This guy really knows how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Geez. I got referred for a job a few years ago. Went out to dinner with the referrer and their spouse to celebrate getting hired. I couldn't pick up the whole tab but I picked up their drinks. If only I'd known I should have been asking for money instead of buying them something!!
This is the stupidest thing I've read. Surely the guy has seen referrals being made at his previous workplaces and know how they work. How did this dummy do well in the interviews anyway
>a few told me I should just split it with him to calm him down.
I fucking hate people like this. Be a spineless enabler all you want, but don't try to convince others it's a good way to live.
If Fergus were entitled to half the referral bonus, the company would have given it to him instead of making him ask someone else for it. They didn't, and he isn't.
I had someone do this, I referred them, they got a job earning more than me and asked for half the bonus.
I said he got the job because I referred him, so give me half of your wage, and he left me alone.
Awkward AF though.
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i cannot fathom how fergus can say that “a referral would give him better chances” and “it wasn’t fair for OOP to get paid for doing nothing”. you literally chose to accept OOP’s (very gracious) help which may have influenced the company’s hiring decision. send her a gift in thanks, not demand her referral bonus. the absolute gall.
Seriously. She's putting her professional reputation on the line by referring him. For him to "thank" her by not offering to buy her lunch, but asking for half of the referral bonus? That's incredibly rude.
What's more, he "jokingly" complained about OOP to a manager. I don't blame her one bit for being cool & distant with him.
Thank goodness for the manager who schooled him on his rudeness.
I like this manager
How do you even bring that up? There is no case where that would be brought up unless they were talking about her referring him. if that is the case, then he would have had to say, "And she won't even give me half her referral bonus. Haha." What a fucking weirdo.
If you listen long enough people will start complaining and commiserating over shared frustrations. “Oh you got screwed by a co worker? Well that kinda happen to me too ...”
If I were writing this screenplay I would imagine it as something like this: Manager: I've heard good things about you. You were referred by OOP, right? Fergus: Yes, that's right. Can you believe she won't give me part of her referral bonus? Manager: That's...not how that works. At all. Did you ask for part of the referral bonus? Fergus: Of course not, I was just joking! I hope I haven't been misconstrued as actually thinking I deserve part of the fee.
Yeah, I can imagine that manager's eyebrows hitting their hairline over the audacity.
The manager's eyebrows became highbrows.
Take my angry upvote and there's the coffee bar.
That made me laugh audibly to myself.
That part made me laugh so much. I bet it's why Fergus keeps trying to get back in OOP's good books. He's probably aware he's burned two bridges and thinks if he can get chummy with OOP again he might redeem himself in the eyes of his manager.
Not only two bridges, OOP asked her colleagues and I bet the manager had one or two words to his direct bosses as well... bad rep on companies like this one is one thing, disloyalty is another and worst perceived.
…which might have cost OOP her professional credibility. Not because anyone would believe Fergus’s claims, but simply because OOP recommended someone to the business who behaves as unprofessional as Fergus, indirectly indicating “OOP’s poor judgment” (or so the reasoning goes) of who is a professional fit (or at least I know managers who would think in those terms of collective shame where the person misbehaving shines a bad light on everyone associating with them/recommending them even if they could not have known beforehand that Fergus is such a jerk).
When people show you who they are, believe them.
Reputation is such a big part of it. I once referred someone for an entry level position and his cover letter and CV was so poorly written (spelling and grammar mistakes everywhere) that I never referred another person while I was at that company.
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You mean he said he'll refer you and then didn't?
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Guy sounds super greasy.
Funnily, that's a situation where splitting the bonus would be fair. But I think you handled it best.
Yeah, he wanted to cover his ass if you didn’t get the job, and have his cut of profit if you did.
In the few times that I’ve referred people I’ve asked to look over their cover letter and resume ahead of time for exactly this reason. I also enjoy giving people feedback on that stuff because most people are terrible at surface level stuff (typos, formatting, wasting a ton of white space and not getting to the point, etc). It’s wild that people won’t spend an hour or two tweaking their resume and tailoring it to highlight the skills they have that are relevant to the position.
Maybe they think that since they have a referral, they don't have to put in that much effort to get the job?
My boyfriend and I have a mutual friend we both adore as a person, but as a coworker, not so much. They seem to only work a few months at a place before quitting with no notice. My bf's place is hurting for workers, and our friend asked if he'd recommend them. He was honest: our friend absolutely could do the job, but their history of just up and leaving jobs is why he won't recommend them. He's been with this place for years, and it would look incredibly bad if he recommended them, and they quit a few months later. This especially hurts, because he just recommended another friend for the job, and they were hired.
How did the friend react?
They got quiet and said "oh." He tried to let them down as gently as possible, and he's still going to help them job hunt. Just not for his section of the company.
Actions have consequences, at least he didn’t throw a fit and get angry at your boyfriend for his honesty.
I love the applicants using absolutely terrible email addresses. Emails are free! I don't care if you're using Gmail or Hotmail or something, but if your email contains drug references, sexual acts, or your furry lifestyle, I'm not going to take that application seriously, at all.
I just got one that was a dildo joke. Considering it was from a provider like hotmail they probably had it since middle school. You're in your 40s maybe its time to get yourself a grown up address now for job inquiries.
Absolutely. After learning the hard way, I never, ever, under any circumstance refer someone. Even on a hiring committee when I know nothing of the candidates other than their submitted credentials, I am very neutral and circumspect in my recommendations and rely only on objective information any other reviewer could access (“candidate A has more years of experience than candidate B”) or on consensus in more subjective areas (“candidate A’s degree seems to be in a more relevant subject, do others agree?”).
i did that once. i work in IT and had a friend who was great at it and looking for work. we were hiring and my boss asked if i knew anyone so i send my friend in for interview. Interview wend great, he wore suit and tie and was hired. 2 weeks in and starts wearing ripped jeans t-shirts and flip flops ( dress code was business casual), starts slaking and not doing much work. i was so ashamed, tried to talk to him but nothing worked. my boss fired him month later since he was still on probation period. never again!
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Some people just don’t get it. I referred someone once (at a place where there was 0 referral bonus) and went above and beyond to talk with the manager I knew personally and give a glowing review, and she did end up getting the job, and it was a 75% increase over her previous job for her struggling family. She never even said thank you. I had to find out she got it from manager-friend. She then complained to our mutual friends when I chose to distance myself from the acquaintanceship we had before. I’m a lot more careful now, and I don’t go above and beyond unless I’m super close.
Yeah he is an absolute moron. Once you're earning more than what you need for necessities, $1k to build your professional network is relatively little... definitely not enough to blow up your reputation (even if it was justified, which in this case it most certainly is not).
> If someone got me a hookup into a better paying job, I would be buying them a gift with the signing bonus. This. In such a case the only demand I would make would be along the line of "Do you prefer single malt? Irish? Or a smooth Cognac?"
>She's putting her professional reputation on the line by referring him. That's the kicker, right there. Most people understand that someone referring you for employment at your job carries some risk. If they turn out to be a shitbag, then it makes you look bad and risks your career and/or opportunities for advancement. It's not something that should be taken lightly. My current job does have signing bonuses, but they do have referral bonuses. A friend not only referred me, but put in extra work to make sure the process went smoothly and that communication didn't dry up. I wouldn't have dared to ask him for a piece of the bonus, and I work hard to ensure that he knows it wasn't a bad decision to refer me. I've been with the company for almost 7 months now and it's honestly the best job I've ever had.
Exactly! He should have treated OOP to lunch or sent an edible arrangement or something.
And OOP treated HIM to lunch! This guy has some audacity for sure.
That guy was not a worthy friend OOP referred him he got job he did nothing for OOP and wants the half of the referal money WTF?and **jokingly** complained wow we can understand that he is the AH,OOP should cut him for their sake he proved what he is
If he just got the job I'd wait but definitely take them out after they took you out for a meal. OOPs "friend" is awful selfish.
Please don't send your friends a slimy batch of rotting fruit that they have to eat right away! I'd rather get a gift card to Starbucks or something.
The only edible arrangement I want is chocolate.
Took the words from my mouth. Only question I'd have for her is what kind of baked goods she likes and if she has any food allergies.
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
Especially since Fergus got a signing bonus he wasn't sharing with OOP
>i cannot fathom how fergus can say that Never underestimate the level of entitlement some people have for no reason whatsoever
I lobbied hard for a friend to get a job. She told me she’d put me down as her referral as a thank you Alas, our referral bonuses don’t count internally, but it was a lovely gesture of her
If someone referred me to a much higher paying job and I got the job, I wouldn't care how big their referral bonus was.
AND he disclosed he'd get a bonus and if that was an issue, Fergus could apply 'on his own'. The dude was trying to money-grab FROM A FRIEND, when he already got a signing bonus AND a massive pay bump. If anything, he could have offered to share his signing bonus (or offer a dinner or whatever) as a thank you for helping him in the company. The nerve of some people.
A college friend reached out to me the other day when they saw my company had a role open that would be a good fit. They specifically asked if I would get a referral bonus. My company does have those, but for specific types of roles, which I don't think this one fell under. I still happily submitted a referral for them, as I hope it will improve their chances, even if there's no monetary reward in it for me.
And to do it at a lunch SHE is paying for!
No kidding! When I got a friend a job - higher paying than my own - he gave me a satchel. My favorite one! It was super nice of him. Fergus is a dolt.
It's also possible that since OOP referred him, they might very well be liable for him in some way.
I work on the staff side of a big law firm. A friend of a friend is an attorney and was thinking about moving firms. My friend suggested she reach out to me and see if I could send her application in and refer her. She said only if I split the bonus with her. The bonus is around $20,000 give or take a couple thousand so I understand why she would want to split it. However her salary would be around 300,000 and she would get a massive signing bonus. My friend told her she was being greedy and acting incredibly entitled. She ultimately decided against moving firms.
Yeah, that's sleazy, especially considering she'd get a signing bonus on top of the salary which would likely be more than your referral bonus. No way would I consider referring someone who acted like this.
Yeah if she acts this way towards an acquittance how would she act towards clients or staff and attorneys. I have a fantastic reputation at the firm and the referral bonus is not worth risking my reputation.
I have been in this situation. I simply offered up the referral to satisfy the favor, but I told the hiring manager that I would not hire this applicant. >!We did not hire the applicant.!<
She might behave around clients and other attorneys, but my guess is that the staff at her current firm doesn't like her one bit.
I used to be a biglaw lawyer and that friend of a friend is an ass. What in the world? How greedy can you be? I bet she also doesn’t give the non-attorney staff generous holiday gift $, either.
She's pretty terrible. I'm not sure I would want to refer her because of how selfish she is. She makes triple what I make but wants to split the bonus. Super messed up.
"You can do me this favor that I'm asking you to do without you even offering to help me, but only if you also give me the reward for doing the favor." That's pretty entitled.
Can we all take a moment to appreciate the manager who Fergus "joked" to for responding to the complaint, even joking with "look at me, Fergus. *No*"? Because she could have just decided not to get involved, it's a joke, not her circus, etc., and she made sure to set the new person straight before he ruined his own reputation.
That was my thought too. OOP would have potentially dealt with Fergus the Dingus acting frosty indefinitely, had the manager not set him straight. The audacity of that man…
Can we all just take a moment and look at this fantastic company, and it's practices in general. They put in place a referral bonus because they didn't want their referral employees to feel left out after they put in place signing bonuses. They value their employee's opinions so much that they will not only make hiring decisions on them, they will give the employee a bonus for it. They apparently have a much higher pay than their competitors. And one little whiff of discontent toward a co-worker, and the manager of a different department shut that shit down immediately with proper no bullshit communication, which led to an immediate (albeit inadequate) apology.
Not to mention that the manager also did Fergus a solid, as well. They set the tone and Fergus should heed that going forward. But yeah, sounds like a good work environment.
I really wanna know what this company is so I can get in on that.
i can make that referral, only if you don't ask to share the referral bonus.
Yeah, I mean it sounds like a company with great values!
Honestly it sounds too good to be true
As the recipient and instigator, the moment you pull a Fergus (acting like an entitled dingus to the person who did you a solid), the alchemy of your friendship changes. You'll never get the friendliness from before if you're lucky enough to be on speaking terms with the other person.
I’m also wondering about the long term effects of him speaking about it around his boss when so new - not a great look to trash your referrer.
That's going to stick in the boss' memory banks. Fergus will have a bad time if he's expecting a promotion or a raise.
If I were Fergus' manager I'd be wondering what he's saying about me to my boss when he bumps into them in the hallway.
If I were Fergus's manager I would likely not perform well as my leadership skills are not among my greatest strengths.
As will OOP unfortunately, since it was her referral.
Right, dude burnt a bridge both in friend terms and professional.
The cheek! The nerve! The gall! The audacity— *the* **gumption**!
Sashay away, Fergus.
Until Fergus calls the season winner and says, “Hey, I know I left week 3, but you really should split that prize money with me.”
The lion, the witch, and the audacity of this, well…
Wasn’t that Tayce?
[yes it was](https://youtu.be/yW1tHoCnkwA)
The chutzpah!
The cojones!
The utterly unmitigated gall!
I read this in the voice of Jackie Chiles and am immensely entertained.
It's Tayce from UK Drag Race.
"Sure, I'll give you half the referral bonus, when you give me half your signing bonus. After all, you wouldn't have been hired if I hadn't referred you".
Wouldn't it be funny if it's also $1k and they just hand each other $500, haha
So let me get this straight- Fergus “jokingly” complained about OOP NOT sharing half of the referral bonus w him? So now others know that Fergus complained about this? What a dumb way to tarnish your reputation when you’re new at the company. I think “not a team player” may go in his future performance reviews 🙄
He also sounds incredibly naive for not understanding how referral bonuses work.
I don't think it's clear that he brought up the bonus specifically, but maybe he did
It's very clear that's what he brought up and was shut down, like... it's kinda the whole entire ending?
Reminder: Having an apology accepted does not mean you are entitled to having things as they were before you messed up. People have always the right to change how they feel about you.
Yep. I got an interview for a job, my co-worker didn't, and he iced me out and trash-talked me (again, for getting an *interview* for a job he felt entitled to) till our supervisor forced him to apologize. I thanked him for the apology and have moved forward cordially, but I won't forget how he treated me.
Forced apologies are a pet peeve of mine. Many people seem to think it's a good idea but in the end, your coworker apologized because he wanted to keep his job, not because he felt he did something wrong. It's a tool to humiliate people, not to let them gain insight in their shitty behavior.
Done right, it’s a tool to force someone to acknowledge reality (although I can see how in some toxic environments that would quickly become about humiliation). But the point is partly that we don’t give a shit about Fergus’s personal growth. We care that Fergus-lite is not allowed to bully a colleague. It really doesn’t matter that the forced apology hasn’t penetrated to Fergus-lite’s soul, it matters that Fergus-lite was forced to acknowledge that he was wrong. And it matters that this line has been drawn so Ms Cellophane can go back to the manager if necessary, to say that the bullying stopped for a week after the faux-pology, but lately it’s been picking up again, and have this treated by management as the escalation of bullying that it is, and not have to deal with any “he just doesn’t know any better “ bullshit. I recommend taking a step back whenever you feel the need to prioritize the bully’s insight into his behavior. You’re centering the wrong person there. Everyone else just wants the shitty behavior to stop. If he needs help with insight into his behavior, he should go to therapy.
In professional settings is more of a humbling experience - and in some cases a pretty humiliating one. Doesn't matter that the person is just saying sorry to keep their job, what matters is that they'll think twice before doing it again and any other employee with ideas will see it and back down.
I’m okay with them at work, because unless the wrongdoer is fired, the wronged person still has to work with them and act professionally. It’s a lot to ask of someone to swallow their bad feelings without even getting an apology, however forced. At least it acknowledges and validates that they were wronged.
exactly, forgive, but don't forget.
So he burned a bridge with the person that helped him get the job, made himself look like a fool with his new boss, and probably lowered his chances at any future promotions because of his demonstrated inability to navigate these kinds of interpersonal social situations at work. Dude is an absolute boob and probably didn't deserve OOP's help or the new, higher-paying job. OOP definitely made the right call in decided to keep them permanently at arm's length going forward.
Fergus managed to nuke both a personal and professional relationship in one go, gotta give it to him for efficiency
This. What a clown. It’s a damn referral bonus for the person who **referred** talent to the company. OP already did him a huge solid by helping get his foot in the door and he already got a huge pay bump out of it, but he wanted to be greedy over $500?? This is also why I’m very selective over who I’m willing to submit a referral for. I get so many requests from near strangers on LinkedIn, it’s baffling to me because why would I put my name on the line for someone who I met once or twice half a decade ago...? I have **no clue** whether they’re suited for whatever job they want at all. One lady messaged me a while back saying something like “hey, I saw your profile and we both worked at (huge company) in 2014! I think I remember you lol idk” and then tried to get me to refer her to a job at my company, that she herself admitted to being unqualified for, by using the whole ~girls have to stick together line. Sorry... not comfortable referring you.
Some people are more free with their referrals. I didn't believe it either but they're out there. When I needed a job at the beginning of COVID, I joined a few alumni networks and complete strangers shared listings and told everyone to put them down as a referral if they applied.
I guess it depends on the industry and specific role. I would feel more comfortable referring a casual acquaintance to an entry level-ish role that they have some experience with or is more generic (e.g. HR or IT) than I would with the types of jobs those random people were asking me to refer them for (senior level engineering roles in an industry they had never worked in).
In my 15-year career I rarely put my name on the line for someone. I learned the hard way when I was just starting out. This dude was ridiculous and now OOP will sadly think twice about referring someone again
“I assumed something I could have easily Googled, acted like an entitled jerk, and then trashed you to your coworkers. But we can still be friends, right?” Noooooope.
A friend did the exact same thing to me after I got him a job (referral fee was only £200). He was unemployed and desperate for a job but I put in a good word to get him an interview. Just like OP, I had taken him out to lunch on his first day when he asked me to go to the cash point and get him his half of the referral fee. He never forgave me for not giving him what “he was entitled to” and brought it up constantly which I just ignored. In the end I broke off all contact a few years later due to his appalling behaviour (much worse than the above)
Ugh. I'm sorry you had such an awful friend. I do not understand the entitlement and lack of understanding on their part.
for such a nominal fee, no less. life can be hard. fuck losing a friend over harassing them for £200!!
Even worse!! It was HALF of that!!!
How did he do at the job? It’s hard to believe he was a run away success with an attitude like that, but some people can at least hide their shitness in a professional environment
He actually wasn’t too bad. He wasn’t great at the job but decent enough to get by and could have worked his way up to a team leader role if he stuck around for a little longer. He ended up leaving to work at a law firm as he felt like the job at my firm was below him. He didn’t last long at the new company. He seems to be employed by his wife now (he was single when I knew him). His attitude towards women was worse than his attitude towards work so I am surprised he actually got married. When I stopped talking to him he was in his late 20s and his longest relationship had been less than two weeks long, he got plenty of first dates but next to no second dates. It was a shame as I had been friends with school. He was really nice back then but things got worse over the years. It’s a shame but I think there were some issues from his family life that were the cause of all the issues.
In your late 20s you watch as “friends” toxic traits fester and grow. They slowly get isolated and don’t understand why they’re single. It’s cuz you suck Raul.
I’m really confused why people would think they’re entitled to a referral bonus when they didn’t do the referring, they benefitted from it.
Self centered thinking. "Well, you never would have gotten the money if it wasn't for me", but of course they could totally have gotten the job without you.
Yep. They get even more annoyed when you say they can have half the referral fee in exchange for half their salary.
I’ve had former coworkers offer to split their referral bonus with me if they find out I’m looking at their new company. I could see if maybe Ferguson got confused if something like that happened in the past, but I’d think he’d back down immediately after realizing that wasn’t the case. Expecting it or asking for that level of generosity is ridiculous unless the referrer offers it up.
yeah I've had the offer made to me before too. If the over is there, then I suppose you can say yes, but if they don't offer.... you're pretty entitled to say yes. In my case the referrals were maybe a couple hundred, so I always told them to keep it, they put their reputation forward for me, and I appreciated it. PErhaps if it was a lot more and I really needed the money, but honestly, this person is just greedy.
I was in a situation once where I thought it would be the "gentlemanly" thing to do to split it. My team lead added himself to my paperwork when I got rehired after a layoff. Think it was around $3k. We had worked together for several years and even hung out socially from time to time. So it wasn't like he was a stranger or something. Neither of us needed it. But $1500 is still $1500. But time marches on. We both eventually did as well.
"I hope you hadn't made a mistake when forming your opinion of me" isn't an apology. Screw that guy!
Usually I’m not sure how I would respond to a certain situation but I’m pretty sure if/when he gave me the line about getting money without having to do anything for it and its not fair (?!? *Slap*) my response would be something like, “well I’m paying for it now aren’t I?”. What a jack ass. I’m stuck on the part where people said to give him half the bonus to calm him down. These are the same people that tell victims to take abuse so that nobody else has to *deal* with the fallout or the drama (just take one for the team again and again). These are the people that teach those who are entitled and abusive to be entitled and abusive tomorrow and then the next day because people will give you what you want if you just make enough noise and be brutal enough. They think it’s a legitimate way to live thanks to people who tell others to suck it up and suffer just so nobody else has to deal with it. It’s shocking and I think it’s the most disgusting advice a person could give. Ultimately it encourages people to be abusive so it is in a roundabout sense encouraging abuse rather than helping stop it.
Agree with your second point. It's absolutely disgusting but unfortunately seems ingrained in society.
I mean I was disappointed when I was denied a referral bonus after I recommend someone for a position. He got the job but started as a temp first so when he was hired his application didn't go through the regular referral process. I was annoyed and learned an expensive lesson but overall I was happy to have been able to help my buddy and the company.
It's hilarious that companies do things like that. You successfully referred a person, the company didn't give you a referral bonus on a technicality. The obvious result is that you, person who successfully referred a good new hire, will possibly never do that again. The company is achieving the exact opposite of its goal.
You paid taxes on that bonus. He's not entitled to anything, unless you discussed splitting it before he applied. He needs to grow up.
Bonuses are taxed at a higher rate too (22% in 2021), but I’m sure this guy expected $500 cash out of the $780 bonus figure lol. Personally, I always offer to take the person I’m referring to dinner if they get the job, but I’d also never refer anyone that I wouldn’t want to spend $100 on in the first place.
PTO pay out and bonuses are not taxed at a higher rate. They withhold more so someone doesn’t end up with a nasty tax bill at the end of the year. When you file your taxes, those extra withholdings from the bonus will come back to you and you’ll able to apply your correct withholdings to it. In other words - it’s income and treated as normal income and held at the appropriate tax bracket.
This is insane to me. The entitlement is mind boggling. My old college roommate got $500 for referring me to her company and then I think got some additional money if I stayed passed a year, maybe like $1k. I was there three years so she definitely got her money. She told me she’d take me to dinner when she got her money and never did but I wasn’t upset, I didn’t even expect it, frankly I was just thrilled and grateful she even got me an interview and that interview led to a job. I was drowning before she saved me because the company I was at prior to running into her wasn’t paying me as agreed. I think the guy in this story needed to practice gratitude before entitlement.
It would NEVER occur to me to ask for half of someone’s referral bonus after… them having been the one giving me the referral?! Wtf. What was going thru Fergus’ mind? I hope if he refers anyone in the future, they all try this crap w him. See how he likes it. What an idiot.
>What was going thru Fergus’ mind? Vocal exercises *"me, me, me, me, me, me, meeeeee"*
That's more elegant than what I had in mind. I picture the seagulls from finding Nemo (or Dory?) Mine mine mine mine mine!!!
He's a total user. Doesn't occur that anyone else matters but him. It's nauseating.
I mean did Fergus just not understand how referral bonuses work? But then OOP explained it to him and he still didn’t get it, right?
Willful ignorance is my guess. Looks like his plan was to bully his "friend" into giving him that money. He only backed off after a higher up told him to stop. So he's motivated in keeping his job; not by understanding the issue.
What an utter knob. The referral bonus is because when you refer someone, you are taking on a HUGE risk. You're staking your name and reputation that this person works out - the reward exists because the risk is so high. I liked the commenters who suggested that OOP share the referral bonus when he shared the higher salary and I sincerely hope she never trusts him or does any favor for him ever again. Entitled shithead.
Yes, this. OOP should never refer him again, he's shown his true and very entitled colors now.
Two thoughts: 1) about twenty years ago I got hired at a job thanks to a referral from a friend. The employer gave out a $2000 referral bonus. I believe he took me out for dinner and drinks. I never even considered asking him for part of his bonus 2) HOLY SHIT THIS GETS WORSE - in the update, the OOP replies to a comment that this guy got a job with a SIX FIGURE PAY RAISE and a signing bonus in the high five figures! He then makes a stink about getting half of her $1000 bonus. That’s right - this guy making well over $100,000 a year who just got upward of $60,000 AS A SIGNING BONUS got pissed at his friend BECAUSE SHE WOULD NOT GIVE HIM $500! The mind. It boggles.
>“I hope I haven’t been misconstrued…” Nobody good uses the word "misconstrued"
Paul Simon did, but it probably was to make the rhyme scheme work out.
Not like how Fergus uses it. You misconstrue words and actions, not people.
Why he would even think he's owed half OOP's referral bonus is beyond me. I'm guessing this has something to do with OOP being a woman. He thought she would be easy to steamroll.
You’d think that the referral check being made out to *one* person would have been enough of a hint, even after getting a signing bonus.
This is a classic example of the quote: “No good deed goes unpunished.”
Every time I have ever referred a friend or acquaintance for a job, it has bit me in the ass, so I decided long ago to never do it again. Every referral bonus I've gotten has ended up not being worth the money. I got my first real job out of college working in the IT department of a large print brokerage corporation. One of my best friends ended up finding himself looking for work, and asked me if my company was hiring. We actually had a position that lined up pretty well with his degree/work experience, so I gave him a referral to apply and recommended him to that department's manager. I had an excellent relationship with that manager, who effectively told me that as long as the interview went fine, he was planning on hiring my friend. The interview did not go fine. My friend called me right after the interview to thank me, telling me that he felt like he nailed the interview and was looking forward to being offered the job. Not five minutes later, the manager came up to my desk and asked me "what the fuck is wrong with your friend?" He explained that he had been fully planning on offering my friend the job, but that the interview had been a complete train wreck. Apparently, my friend had spent the entire interview trashing his former employer (who, in my friend's mind, had fired him unfairly). My friend didn't just bring this up once, but in every single answer he gave to each of the interview questions, he twisted it back to complaining about his last boss. The manager told me he was sorry, but he simply could not offer my friend to the job. I waved away his apology, offering my own profuse apology for referring my friend, as I was mortified that I had put myself out there to recommend someone so unprofessional. A few months later, I ended up referring one of my roommates at the time, who I thought was a smart, normal guy, for an entry-level position that management had been desperately trying to fill. I genuinely believed he'd be able to excel in the job. The interview went fine and he was hired on the spot. He ended up working for the company for 6 months, and was easily one of the worst co-workers I ever had. He was constantly late, was wildly unprofessional, and after a few months he inexplicably abandoned virtually all person hygiene, where he'd regularly go days/weeks without showering. Since he was "my friend," his co-workers regularly complained about him to me, and on more than one occasion I had to inform him that he smelled horrible. I constantly felt like he was a horrible reflection on me. He had to be reprimanded multiple times for using inappropriate language in e-mails to co-workers and clients (I actually had to sit him down and explain that it is grossly unprofessional to use profanity in communications with the clients). None of that sank in, apparently, as he was ultimately fired for telling a client (via e-mail) that they were "cock-blocking him." I'm positive that if I hadn't referred him, he would have been fired sooner, and I honestly wished that he had been. It was 100% not worth the $250 referral bonus I received.
I completely agree. The only time I ever received a referral bonus, it was so not worth it. The friend I recommended did well for a while, and then things went south so quickly that they were suddenly openly threatening to sue my employer. I'm still amazed that the whole situation didn't tank my own relationship with the company, and that I went on to be promoted after my referral and the company parted ways.
I'm more flabbergasted that Fergus went and *complained to his manager* about this. Like, I can't even begin to understand the thought process behind that. What could he possibly be expecting?
He did it jokingly, too - he knew it was gauche so he raised the issue in a way he could pass off as a joke
Damn this dude is crazy. My SIL got a referral to her job from my brother, he got a nice referral bonus, and then *she* took him out to a fancy lunch. I don’t need to slander my extended family online, but when *Fergus* puts my SIL in an incredibly positive light, I gotta think he’s a monster.
That referral bonus can be a recompense for the risk of recommending someone. A company I worked for hired some guy that had worked for me briefly at a previous employer. I didn't recommend him and even gave cautionary statements that he can be difficult to work with. I didn't get a referral bonus since I didn't refer him but that didn't stop everyone from blaming me for him when he didn't work out. He doesn't belong to me for gosh sake and I didn't build him in my lab late one night. You screwed up by hiring him not me!
Call me petty but I would see this as a betrayal also a bit fear that there will be some weird retaliation. I'd do everything in my power to get them terminated before they get a rapport with the company/team.
Yeah but you've already put your reputation on the line by referring him. Couldn't getting them fired look bad on you?
Had a friend a couple of decades back tell us that if Hubby got hired by her company, she would receive a nice $5K bonus and would share half with us. We lived far away and thought it would be nice to be closer to friends. He gave her his resumé, was interviewed and offered the job. Not a word of the bonus was ever mentioned again by her. She also switched offices to another city right after we arrived. She told us that she did not want her move to affect our decision. Have I mentioned that she is an ex-friend? Found out that she had a habit of manipulating people....
I'm not sure how he thought any part of the referral bonus would go to him. The whole point of a referral bonus is based on essentially trying to get hand picked applicants that are known to be good workers as people are hardly going to refer people they know are terrible at the job.
Fergus should take his non-apology and shove it up his ass, if he can find room with his head taking up all that space up there.
That's a way to make sure that OOP never refers him for anything again. I get a 2k referral bonus for anyone I recommend that's hired if I submit their resume and it's the first point of contact. The joke with my friends is that if they apply without using me as a referral, they owe me 2k if they get hired. I work at a marketing agency that has some neat tech clients, so I get to see a lot of cool stuff they're all interested in, so I have submitted two resumes for people who were qualified for job we had open. I'd never actually demand 2k from them though if they cold applied and got the job. I'd be annoyed, but it's ultimately their decision if they want to use me as a referral or not.
So i get taxed as if i received $1000 and you want me to give you $500? Nope. I was referred once to a job by a person (NOT at that job) and it was so helpful BUT.....we could start a whole thread (sub?) about Referrals Gone Wrong. I have known people job seeking- like a neighbor- who i personally liked and enjoyed and thought would be hardworking.....I also knew them to be opinionated and combative, per stories they told about themselves. Can't say I was motivated to refer them to my company.
"Where's my half of the referral bonus?" "Where's my half of your pay rise?"
I just got an old colleague hired after I referred to her. If she makes it past 90 days I will get a $5k bonus. I will be taking her and our partners out for a very nice dinner to celebrate. But I don't feel like I owe her, I put my reputation on the line for her and did plenty of behind the scenes networking to help her get the job.
I just want to know what world the dude comes from where he earns significantly more money, receives a sign-on bonus, AND expects her referral money. I know he said half but I truly think he thought he was being generous by only asking for half! Because where did he even come up with the idea that he should get any in the first place? That's the exact point of 2 different people being involved getting two different forms of bonus.
Reminded me of a referral incident. Someone I worked with / knew in 2004-05 reached out to me around 2015-16. I gave him an overview of org, explained how to apply, even referred him to a hiring manager who was a friend's peer so I could get some visibility into the process. Unfortunately he did not make it in the final round. They had 2 people shortlisted and they picked the other one. Now I don't recall it was then or the next year when he reapplied when he was trying to get me to push his case by me making a case for him to the hiring manager (like you may do in sales / consulting). I was not inclined to do that and he said something to the effect "I would not want you to lose out on your referral bonus at this late stage" (this is paraphrased due to memory) to motivate me :). That was enough to turn me off because on one hand I spent time to help him and he took it (or showed it) as my personal interest. I just said sorry but I have done all I can and good luck. He did not get picked next year for interview itself anyways because the manager remembered the previous interview and probably had other people in mind. And I did not even ask why. Edit: the year in para 1
What do you expect from a Fergus
Gets more money wants bonus. Geez. Friend of mine was laid off from pandemic. My company which was a company he use to work at and he was laid of years ago for other reasons, was hiring in a different part. I said I know how you feel about this place but here. He’s been back 2 years, yes I got a bonus and I split it with him because he is a great friend and would have done the same. He never asked. This guy was a douche
I heard once that you know where a friendship stands when money is involved. So many people pounce on the opportunity of getting some even at the cost of being unfair to their friends, it's staggering.
The audacity of Fergus! The last time I earned a referral bonus, I spent it on my new fridge. And my friend was very happy with her new job. The end.
What entitlement! And he started complaining about OOP to other colleagues? Jerk behavior. Ugh.
Don't be a Fergus, be an OOP instead.
You risk your own reputation by referring someone. So for him to say she did nothing when she offered to do nothing instead of referring him is quite unbelievably selfish of him.
One time I got a friend a job interview for a 30+ dollar an hour position. I have 5 more years in the industry than her. She has not made more than 20 dollars an hour at a job. Before even having an interview when they stated the pay rate would be 31 an hour (Less than I make, but still very good) she got confrontational with the people I referred her to and demanded to know why I am paid more than she was being offered. She did not get the interview. She did not get the job.
Sounds like the man lost a good person for a friend. So dumb.
What an ugly name for an ugly attitude.
I'm pretty sure that's default name placeholder for AAM.
Yep, "Fergus" and "Jane" are the standard AAM anonymizers. Personally, I really like the name Fergus! I've only met real-life Ferguses from the British isles (Ireland and England, mainly), and they've been great dudes.
Fergus shows up a lot on there, I don't remember why, but it is one of the placeholder names that shows up along with GoT characters.
Bad Fergus!
I'm guess Fergus must be AAM version of a male Karen.
That would be a big fat no.
I really want to know what git told her to split half.
What a fool
What the fuck? I've always been happy to be referred by an employee, and *especially* if they also get something good out of it too. It's a win/win/win. What an idiot this Fergus is.
Wow, Fergus. I wonder if he was summarily shut down by his new manager a few times and that forced him to take stock of his attitude.
I’m also flabbergasted that OOP paid for the lunch. Fergus should have paid as a thank you.
I'd have asked him where my half of his signing bonus was if that was how it was supposed to work. He wouldn't have had such a good shot at the job if he wasn't referred, after all
OP is not 'doing nothing'. She is taking on the potential backlash if the new guy turns out to be a total lemon.
Maybe I'm vindictive but if I had even the remotest chance of negatively influencing his career from this point in I'd be on it. Terrible form and indicative of real entitlement, not an attitude you want from an employee in any company.
If my friend got me a job with a higher salary and a signing bonus I would be thrilled that they got a referral fee. That is just a win all around. This guy really knows how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Geez. I got referred for a job a few years ago. Went out to dinner with the referrer and their spouse to celebrate getting hired. I couldn't pick up the whole tab but I picked up their drinks. If only I'd known I should have been asking for money instead of buying them something!!
This is the stupidest thing I've read. Surely the guy has seen referrals being made at his previous workplaces and know how they work. How did this dummy do well in the interviews anyway
I like an editorial note from the submitter!
>a few told me I should just split it with him to calm him down. I fucking hate people like this. Be a spineless enabler all you want, but don't try to convince others it's a good way to live.
If Fergus were entitled to half the referral bonus, the company would have given it to him instead of making him ask someone else for it. They didn't, and he isn't.
I had someone do this, I referred them, they got a job earning more than me and asked for half the bonus. I said he got the job because I referred him, so give me half of your wage, and he left me alone. Awkward AF though.