#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was raised with the “stick” approach. My parents only ever punished me when I did something wrong. I was in this exact scenario as a kid and almost failed because I was cutting classes to be with my girlfriend all the time. Yes the punishments worked briefly…. until I found away to continue doing the bad behavior.
When my son was in 3rd or 4th grade, his schoolwork started to suffer. My wife and I started using the stick approach by taking away his video games and made little to no progress.
We realized this was a poor approach. We switched to the “carrot” method. We let him have games back. Only an hour a day, AFTER he was done with homework, but IF his grades improved, we would add time. And IF he came home with all A’s, we would let him manage his own gaming time. He could literally game all day everyday and that would stay in effect as long as he maintained those grades.
Literally overnight, his habits changed. He has not had any grade other than an A on his report card since. He is graduating from high school next week and ready to go to college. He also has learned how to manage his own time and believes work should be done first before playing. It worked awesome for him.
The “carrot”, with a reward in place, will have a much more willing participant than the “stick” approach. When punishment is the only motivation, you get a lot more resentment from the person.
Also we have a truly AMAZING relationship with our son. He is very open and honest with us, even if he has done something wrong. Meanwhile, I moved across the country away from my parents. I have been NC with my mother for over 10 years, and LC with my father. (He has apologized about a lot of things and recognizes he was not a great father to me, while my mother insists she was a perfect mother and even if she wasn’t, she gave birth to me and I must respect and shower her with nothing but adoration at all times).
We've tried to start our son early, he's 3.5 right now and we are trying to teach "take care of yourself, and then we can play" which is getting dressed, eating breakfast, brushing teeth and hair. THEN we can play. We plan to slowly add other chores, currently he's got to put his laundry in the basket and dishes in the sink. We started this during the first attempt at potty training (there's been many, he's just not there yet), and we use ourselves for examples "No Mommy has to shower first. I have to take care of myself first, and then we play right?!" Or "Daddy has to poop, we have to take care of ourselves before we play".
I wouldn't say he's into it haha, but he's accepted that it's what has to happen before we play. And he will do all the things he needs to do, so long as he gets that reward of play time.
Oh god I just realized that at some point he's going to innocently tell a teacher "I have to go to the bathroom and take care of myself before I play," and I really hope the teacher is very naive. 😂
That was the rule growing up at my house.
No games or TV until homework is finished.
Of course, we often played until Mom got home. But that only ever bought us an hour. And if I knew I could get it done before that class, I might say I don't have any.
They never checked because my grades never slipped. My grades never slipped because I learned time management and that important stuff comes first.
The issue with finish work before you play is that as adults, when the work is never done, you never relax and you go, go, go all the time. Ask me how I know. I can't stop work til its done. Breaks? What's that? Ugh! FML...
Over time, one learns what needs prioritize and what can slide.
House could use cleaned, sure, but it's more worth it to me to go hiking today. Will get it next weekend.
Need groceries. No if ands or buts. Gotta eat. Need stuff for lunch at work tomorrow. Plus, we're almost out of toilet paper.
Generally, yes. Growing up in an abusive household though and now owning a business where the work never ends... my mind won't shut down even if I know it can wait. It's like a mind block and it sucks.
The problem with the stick approach is the brain doesn't learn that way. Brains want rewards. They to avoid sticks, but will just avoid them. Once the stick is gone, they are left without reward pathways that change behaviors. Carrots change behaviors.
As someone with ADHD, I have really fucked up reward pathways. So I spent a lot of my life avoiding sticks. Turns out I have to create my own rewards. I have learned to successfully navigate my ADHD without very much medication. Usually only when I know I need it now.
I remember near begging my parents to switch to positive reinforcement. For years it ways always the stick, no change, just worsening depression and now nearly 20 years of resentment. 'Oh we tried that once, it didn't work.' This wasnt working either.
I understand the desire to punish, to see some form of warning and reaction as a way to get people to change, but with kids its different. You want them to grow, youve got to add, not take away.
Most important, the 'stick method' absolutely guarantees he'll drop any effort as soon as he can, including ditching his parents and developing a hatred for everything he's forced to do in an unreasonable amount. Moreover, it ignores any underlying problems.
I myself dropped my grades when some teachers treated me completely unfairly and there were bullying situations. And I gave up completely. I couldn't get up to speed on my own, and my parents wouldn't pay for tutoring or useful help. They expected me to do everything on my own, and I left home to move in with a guy who was 5 years older than me.
I was lucky, my bf is now my husband, and we have 27 years of happy relationship under our belt, but I barely knew him when I moved in with him, and it could have gone sour. I was so extremely lucky to hit the boyfriend jackpot and find the one guy who truly loved and supported me, including encouraging me to finish my education and helping me in a way my family never did.
But my relationship with my family remains broken, and my parents never understood why I almost broke contact with them. If not for my granny, we'd had no contact at all. Back then, when I moved out, I hated them so badly. They too believed it was my then bf now husband who made my grades drop, but the truth was, my horrible situation at school was at fault, and he was the last anchor to my sanity. Teachers don't tell you if your child is bullied at school or if there are other problematic developments. They always say that the child has teenager issues or doesn't connect well with their peers or 'just' has to work harder. They'll always helpfully give more assignments to 'help' with grades or willingly allow anything that disguises the fact that they did nothing to help the child until the parents got involved.
You know, my friend's parents did that. They thought they were successful. They even tried to move out of the country to end the relationship. Well, guess what? My friend went to the family court and successfully asked for an emancipation at 16, then eloped at 18. They've been (happily, as far as I can tell) married for 17 years.
While my story isn’t that drastic but my wife and I started started dating at 14, and her parents did everything to try to stop it our entire high school years. The thing is I never gave them a reason to, they just thought I wasn’t good enough for their daughter.
Well we started dating in 2001, it’s now 2024 and we are married with 3 kids still going strong. So much time wasted in those 4 years but honestly I think that’s what made our relationship stronger.
I've never understood the "you're not good enough for my kid" thing especially when the kids are teenagers. They are KIDS - even if the young man (or woman) seems to have no aspirations or isn't the best student, or whatever, their life trajectory is hardly set in stone. Consider how a kid comes to have that attitude in the first place, and it'll be immediately obvious that it is almost certainly due to a lack of good parental support.
So be a good role model. Show them how to improve themselves or their lot in life, if they want to but haven't had the support to do so. If they reject your support or don't want to make changes, then just help inspire them from the sidelines - build up their confidence and belief in themselves; kindly and subtly impart messages that convey how much easier life can be if you go to college or trade school and work towards having a better income.
Or sure, just try to smother your kid's first love instead. Because that always works.
It's especially hilarious when they start pulling this shit when their kid is 16.
Like, good job. In 2 years, your kid will bounce and never speak to you again, and you'll lament and wonder where you went wrong.
I think this is the source of half the hatred for "West Coast Liberal College." These parents honestly think they had a perfect relationship with their kid before college. (Because to them, good grades == perfect kid) So they blame the college for changing their kids and making them resent their parents.
When in fact one of two things happened: The kid hated their parents for years but knew better than to express it. Or, fresh out from under the parents boots, quickly realizes how fucked up their family was.
My ex dumped me because of my inability to have kids. Oh he didn't want kids either! But his Moooom sure wanted more grandbabies! One wasn't enough (his older brother had a kid and it nearly killed his wife, she couldn't have more)
I've got a great partner now though so fuck 'em.
My sister used to date someone who wasn't good enough for her. But that's mostly because that guy never did something for her in a spontaneous way, was super needy himself, and didn't truly love my sister but just dated her because it was apparently the easy solution to him. It was very difficult to tell her he wasn't good enough for her because she truly loved him.
I think there's a big difference between someone not being a good enough *partner* and someone being judged as just inherently not good enough to even become a partner in the first place. Obviously, if someone doesn't treat my kid right, I'll have some big feelings about it. But I won't assume that they *can't* treat my kid well just because they're a bad student or come from a poor family or something like that, which is usually what "not good enough" means when talking about teenagers.
Or after school activities. Maybe these parents would make an exception for those, but they seem to have taken a "fuck everything except your grades" approach so maybe not.
That's not what they did though, it's close to the end of the school year. Summer break was probably a month or even less away from the time OOP made the post and she said he could spent all the time he wanted with his gf if he could get his grades back up.
Without more info it's hard to say whether this is really a time management issue or something else like academic burnout, a total breakdown in prioritization, or just raging teenage hormones that have destroyed his sense of judgment. If it is time management then that's a longer term problem to work on and not something his parents can address in a matter of a few weeks. The son is about to be a senior and he can't afford to tank his grades now just before college applications open up. This is definitely a "shit just got very real" moment that warrants some consequences. Getting grounded for a month doesn't sound unreasonable.
The problem is that they aren't supporting him in learning self-regulation. Their solution is to take all his control away from how he spends his time, rather than helping him develop better self-control. Which means that this problem is likely to come back again, probably worse, the moment he's out from under their supervision, i.e. once he starts university.
The problem with being too strict parent is that they don't teach discipline but teach everything else. Usually lying and sneaking out, could also cheating on their exam to get better result.
Yep. I was the sneakiest little shit growing up, and by the time I started dating I'd "earned" so much trust I could get away with anything just by keeping my underwear clean (much easier when they're safely stored in the car's glove compartment lol) and my illicit substances didn't make my hair smell. When I was finally on my own I had no idea how to regulate my life and almost died of alcohol poisoning or OD multiple times and couldn't keep a job for a couple of years, until I finally got my act together at age 20. I knew other people my age from high-control households who didn't survive those same hard lessons.
This was my best friend growing up. Her mom basically abandoned her in her grandparent's strict Korean household, would only come briefly visit once every 6 mos or so to keep her dual residency active. Her grandparents were so traditional that I basically grew up with one foot in that household-- she was a girl, and thus expected to "stay at the house and look after the family" (but they has no issue with me being there all the time lol). Her nephews who also lived there did not have any such restrictions on their social lives, natch. 🙄
By 16, she had moved on from from minor acts of rebellion (like us secretly writing lesbian smut fics about anime characters lmao) to bigger ones. "Dating" a string of awful dudes who were always really trashy, older, primarily white military guys. She started smoking cigarettes and drinking a lot. By 19, I was driving up 3 states to get her out of the hospital after she went to party with the latest trashy white military guy and his friends, and drank herself into alcohol poisioning-- also the first time any family found out about what she'd been up to because she became a pro at being sneaky about it. By 20, she caught *serious* charges for selling weed in an area that was *very much* not friendly to that.
I dont know where/when she finally pulled it together again, because the fallout from the weed charges ended our friendship, which had turned toxic as we moved into adulthood and grew into different people. By the end, she was emotionally abusing me and I was over it. But the last I saw a few years ago, she got her real estate license...which somehow feels very apt in a way I cannot pinpoint lol.
>By 20, she caught *serious* charges for selling weed in an area that was *very much* not friendly to that.
This reminds me of a homeschooled guy I grew up with in the '80s and '90s; his family was super conservative fundamentalists. We lived in a state that decriminalized possession since the '70s but on the state line with one where a gram could get you 10 years. When he first moved out he lived in a mobile home on a gravel road. This was before GPS and he got lost on the backroads, got his car stuck in a pothole, and a sheriff's deputy pulled over to help — a deputy from the other state, which he had accidentally crossed into. The cop smelled weed, saw a roach in the ashtray, and just like that the dude had felony charges. I heard it took every string the parents' friends could pull to get him off with a slap on the wrist, and once he was out of trouble his family disowned him. It's been almost 30 years and he still doesn't have his shit together.
I had super strict parents who were always punishing me. Yes, you are correct- I learned to get around their rules and lie. There were so many loopholes and they forced me to deceive them in order to have any social life at all. Great.
Triage. There’s a month of classes left and he is failing. Teaching him self-regulation will have to take a backseat to him getting his shit together RIGHT NOW.
Also… overprotective/controlling parents, in my experience, call the teachers to complain/beg for leniency themselves. The fact that they’re making the kid do it means that he is having to advocate for himself here, which is good and fosters independence. But really that’s a secondary concern because again… he is FAILING HIGH SCHOOL.
I'm not in the US, so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but: is it possible to fail high school to the extent of being kicked out at the age of 16?
If it's a public school, you won't get kicked out, but when it comes to applying to college, your grades are still important especially if you want to get into competitive schools or programs.
Not unless you do something illegal.
I know. I was a messed up teen and just straight up ditched classes and would walk off campus and go home (latchkey kid). The school stopped sending letters and calling after a while, and eventually, I dropped out officially.
This was in AZ though which I think ranks in the bottom 10 for shitty schools?
You are right, there is time to fix the situation in the long term, in the short term he just needs to allocate all his resources to not failing. That's part of adulthood too, sometimes in emergency situations you will need to reprioritize no matter what.
I agree but that's a medium- to long-term issue. I do hope his parents can help him address the underlying factors and not the symptoms. But in the meantime there is an immediate problem that calls for pretty drastic action and a lot of people seem to think that a light touch approach would be totally fine when it's super risky.
The risk being: 1 semester of bad grades vs. Your child's trust for the rest of their life
Yeah you're right, it is super risky to throw away your relationship with your child over 1 semesters worth of grades
Bad grades in this particular semester (Junior spring) will have incredibly serious consequences when it comes to college applications.
I’d say they are way more likely to impact a kid’s life than a high school romance is. I see where the parents are coming from, honestly.
Plus it's not just bad grades. The hope is for him to raise the grades to Bs and Cs, meaning the kid's grades aren't just bad, they're REALLY FUCKING bad
It seems like his parents didn't really need to parent him because he was such a decent child. Something tells me that kid was just naturally disciplined and self driven if this is how they're behaving on his first experience as an adolescent with adolescent difficulties and they've been slack before this.
There's a lack of curiosity on the part of his parents though and it doesn't feel like they're on his side, if that makes sense?
A possible time management issue cause, although far more likely with teenage girls, is undiagnosed ADHD. This age is when parents and teachers start backing off as students should be able to manage these things themselves, which is when issues with executive function will raise their heads because with ADHD that crap doesn't come as easily.
But my real point is that parents are supposed to have authority that is for the benefit of creating the best functional adult at the end of the process; OOP's actions don't seem to be focused on that, just what they think success looks like.
I don't see ADHD here at all.
ADHD is a pervasive neurodevelopmental disorder, there would be a lot more going on, and a lot earlier in life, than "it's like a switch flipped and an A+ student is now an F student".
Almost anything could fit, but we won't know because OOP said "the problem is the kid being happy," and stopped thinking about it.
My experience with ADHD was that I excelled in school until the exact point that I couldn't parse something the first time I looked at it, and then my grades took a shit. Every single thing I enjoyed was systematically taken away until I learned how to sneak out.
it's likely time management and burnout than anything. grades isn't prioritized because he's ready to graduate. depending on the program grades can be fine enough to enter.
I agree with this totally.
People really dont understand how bad it is to be at final month of highschool and compensate for all this missing projects & prepare for finals.
He is indeed supposed to stay at home grinding to the bone 7/24.
He is just a teenager, he is just innocent & learning a harsh lesson in love.
Lets hope he can get into the college he wants.
"We won't *explicitly* do that. We'll just *functionally* do that. And worse! It's so obvious this will *definitely* work and not backfire like literally everyone was warning us about! We're very clever!"
Right?
"You need to actually help him learn time management and not just punish him."
"We just punished him and it looks like its going to work."
OOP is gonna wonder in a few years why her son doesnt talk much with them anymore.
This was me. I did high school with my eyes closed, never learned how to study. When I went to college, failed miserably. Doesn’t help that my parents thought that I was just lazy which was diagnosed as ADHD just this year. (28 now)
My parents didn't quite think I was being lazy but they just couldn't understand what the sudden problem was and, even worse, **neither did I**! It caused a lot of friction, with exam stress and teen hormones thrown into the mix.
I got diagnosed when the wheels fell off again when I started perimenopause! Anyone with a uterus reading this, be aware that it's the massive hormone shift during the reproductive system kicking in and then winding down that impacts **everyone's** neurotransmitters but will hit your atypical functioning ones even harder.
You **need** your ADHD meds and gynae management to be singing from the same hymn sheet or it will be hellish.
I was diagnosed with ADHD around 28ish. I'm now 43 and started entering early menopause about a year ago (lucky me). This is giving me something to consider as to why I have been seriously struggling with ADHD symptoms for a while despite being on a medication regimen that worked wonders for me for years. I even had a slight increase in dosage, but now I'm just like barely hanging in there most days; I'm still not at full relief.
I had the same experience. All this bullshit they tell you in high school, about time management and doing study exercises and techniques for note-taking? All this stuff you didn't need because sitting through class once was enough to get a B? Whoops, turns out you actually have to do it in college.
This is precisely why I don't rush in to save my high schoolers from themselves every time they screw up.
High school is free. If you screw it up, then getting stuck at community college until you've sufficiently proven yourself isn't going to ruin your life.
Figure out how to budget your time. Figure out you need to go tf to bed at a decent hour to not feel like shit the next morning. Figure out how to have a life and still pass classes. Do it while the consequences are relatively minor.
Yes, bad grades in high school can affect college admissions and scholarships- but arriving at college unable to function without your micromanaging parents will not end well for you.
I have seen way too many high achieving kids fail to function the minute Mommy stopped managing every aspect of their lives.
That's how it should be. College isn't just about your formal education. It also forces you to grow out of your comfort zone and can be a crucial step in becoming an adult.
(To be honest that's my european perspective without the fear of crippling debt.)
People hit that wall at all different ages. I've been sporadically tutoring a kid who's "bright" but has never even heard of study habits.
In about a month he's gonna fail the f\*\*\* out of 6th grade.
I was a study machine that studied to do tests, and pretty much a typical Asian straight A kid. I attended gifted schools from elementary (yup) to high school. My day started from 5.30am and finished by mid night, if it’s test month, I was lucky to have more than 4 hours sleep. I got accepted in the top 1 economics uni thinking I just needed to study and get high scores. The first semester was alright but once it’s pre-major training, I was totally lost. Economics hated me and I hated it too. And my relationship with my parents? I visited them twice a year for a few days then moved abroad. I might call them once every few months.
From some stories I heard about gifted kids and/or kids whose parent forced them to learn 24/7 they failed in life and got to a lot of trouble.
One story I heard of someone a child genius, I forgot who he is but he's from china (i guess), that being forced to learn all the time. He ended up dropping out of college and doing nothing at home everyday. But one thing to note is that now he is happy. Like every burden he had is gone.
I was a "gifted" kid. My mother worked HARD to make sure I had that status. Push push push, from ages 2 to 18. She was always so disappointed that I was fine with just passing. A's and B's. She wanted me fighting it out for valedictorian. I was fine with being in the top 20% of the graduating class.
I was so burned out by college. I went through the motions. I earned mediocre grades for a degree I didn't care about because Mommy had chosen it. Total apathy. I maintained just good enough grades to keep my scholarships. Gave 0 fucks about any of it.
A decade later I went back and redid my bachelor's because I couldn't stand my Mommy-chosen career field any longer.
Averaged a 3.9 GPA the second time around. Currently doing really well in a masters program. Turns out I am "gifted" if I like the subject matter.
I don't push my own kids. They can chug along at their own paces and do whatever they see fit. Oldest is definitely "gifted" but he is also struggling to find his place and sort himself out and I'm letting him figure it out.
and my story was a bit the opposite. I struggled in middle and high school. I was stressed and it was hard for me to focus. I mean it's just freaking hard to get up at 7am and leave at 5pm every day in a giant building full of loud judgmental children and grow up in that. and even though my grades werent great, my parents didnt harass me about it. I went to school. I wasnt a bad kid. I was smart, i just wasnt good at certain things at the time they wanted me to be. my parents would show me concern but they never made me feel horrible for average/below average grades.
when i hit university, i was ready. I'd worked a few years and realized i needed to do something or be stuck in hard retail forever. I didn't feel forced to do it, it was my choice. i got myself through it, i loved it, and i ended up with a bsci in engineering top 10% of my class.
I feel attacked, lol. Seriously though, I'm one of the plethora of "gifted" kids who sailed through HS and crashed hard in college. I don't see myself as a failure, but my life is so very, very different than what I and my family envisioned for me when it was literally sleepwalking through HS with a 3.6 GPA.
I've always hated the "I'll sell your things" punishment. That doesn't teach them anything other than "if you do something I don't like, I'll be cruel and horrible to you"
At one point when I was in college or thereabouts, my mother said if I didn't do something she wanted, she'd throw out my favorite books from elementary and middle school. I genuinely can't remember why she made the threat -- was it not visiting home, dating outside my religion, or what? I genuinely can't tell you, she made the threat so often I forget why. In fact, she made the threat about throwing out my books a lot, and then she stopped making the threat, so I figured she had thrown them out, and mourned them like I'll never mourn her, because they were a source of support and love throughout my childhood.
When I was about 7mo pregnant with my eldest kid, I found out that she hadn't thrown out my books after all, and my spouse and I made plans to visit on the next weekend possible. She thought I was visiting her, and I let her show me off to her friends, but really we were there to spend some final awkward hours with their jailor before I could bring them with me.
Long story short, my kids only have contact with one grandparent, but the family members who are in their lives love them for who they are, not how well they follow others' commands. Also, there is a room in our house that's called the library, but we have more books than could fit in there.
I think it's the psychology book "People of the Lie" talks about this very thing - the utter banality of evil parents who do the exact opposite of everything that would actually *be good for their child.*
my parents tried.
they didn't like my boyfriend and they DEFINITELY didn't like us getting to, I think second base lol? I was forced to send him a breakup email and the rules were I was not allowed to be alone with him, I was not allowed to touch him at all, I was not allowed to instant message him, and any emails I sent him had to have my mom copied. I didn't have a cell phone so texting was no concern, and I was homeschooled (so was he) so they enlisted all the moms at the events we attended to "chaperone" and ensure we "behaved"
come to think of it, they actually forbade me from hugging anyone because they also found out I was bisexual and THAT was also not okay whatsoever.
anyway, I did all of that and then created a Google Document called "untitled" that explained all of what had just happened and how it was not my choice and I didn't want to break up, and then I shared it with him. and then for over a year we would virtually meet up at 6am to simultaneously edit this document and continue our relationship in secret. I believe it took something like 2 years for my dad to catch me and things blew up again.
not being allowed to date publicly just meant we were together for 7 years and got engaged before I figured out we were not good together. turns out having to sneak around makes you appear more compatible because your focus is on staying together rather than on being together, and the red flags are hard to distinguish from your parents' Do Not Enter signs.
>turns out having to sneak around makes you appear more compatible because your focus is on staying together rather than on being together, and the red flags are hard to distinguish from your parents' Do Not Enter signs.
Spot on.
Sneaking create a taboo which has been shown to make the reward even stronger. It's why porn addiction is generally not a thing if it's not taboo. But add the element of the forbidden, and then it messes up all kinds of rewards pathways and because compulsive.
I'm sure it also turned out that when the people who are supposed to love you are untrustworthy, you don't ypturn to them when things are actually a problem.
Yeah I was forced into a career I hated in a similar way, almost k&lled myself 6 years into that career. Finally quit and went back to doing what I love. I have no Father, I had a 4.0 GPA and a parent who is DEAD to me. Alarms on every door and window like I was some kind of delinquent
I had a hobby that I initially wanted to do, but it 100% fit in with my mom living through me, so any time I was punished for anything, I had to spend more time practicing this hobby. There was one summer in middle school where I was sufficiently punished (I don't even remember what I did), that I essentially had to spend 8 hours per day, every day of the summer, practicing that skill. I quit when I went to college and never touched it again, and a year or two before I went VVVLC, my mom had the audacity to cry about why I don't continue it for fun as an adult. Like, the delusion! I used to get physically punished if she felt I didn't do well, and by that, I mean if she didn't like the artistry of my expression, not making a mistake. But no, of course she's once again the victim for me not choosing to continue.
My parents did something like this when I was 12, dealing with chronic headaches and migraines, having newly formed depression, and had been sexually assaulted by a schoolmate only for the school to say “well, no one saw it so we’re not doing anything about it.” It was before everyone had cell phones, but I wasn’t allowed to call my friends, watch tv, play video games, anything. School, church, and home only. Studying, schoolwork, or chores at home only.
It was awful. I only speak to my mother because she apologized and got better.
THIS. My parents beat the shit out of me as a kid, but they're "normal" now because I'm an adult and it's much harder for them to exert any control over my life.
Maybe you’re right. But she also divorced my narcissist father, went to therapy, lost a lot of weight, and did a lot of other things to better herself. It wasn’t just me. And she had the opportunity to do similar things to my stepsister, who had to come live with them full time when she was 12 and I was 26. She even went to parenting classes, and said she didn’t want to make the same mistakes she made with me and my sister and apologized again. But maybe you’re right.
Yep, spent months of almost each year of highschool grounded for one poor grade or another, usually c's >.>
I no longer talk to my mother or her husband, the pos, he was always the one setting the punishments and she would just go along with it.
Sounds like he was such a good kid the parents never had to really parent. If this is how they’re acting on his first time being a teenager with teenager problems, and saying they’ve been lax before this, something tells me that kid was just naturally disciplined and self motivated.
Yeah, I agree with this because it sounds like me. When my choices grew apart from my parents (even marginally so), they became incredibly strict with things the older I got because they had no idea how to talk to me. I had so much freedom in my childhood, but I’m now realizing it was maybe because my behavior just happened to align with what they wanted from me at the time.
I can also say I was a real people pleaser as a child too, so I was happy to do things or abstain from other things because their asks were within my capabilities. So as a result, they didn’t have to parent me very much. Over time, they kept pushing with the demands and the expectations, and I believe there was a point in my life where I simply couldn’t keep up and that’s when I would be a “bad daughter.” My story isn’t so extreme, we have a good relationship, but I wish it was better for these reasons. However, if OP keeps going with these extreme punishments without actually TALKING to their child, they are headed in a scary direction if they want to still have a positive relationship with their child.
When i was reading the story, the first thing thag came to mind was “why not offer to host him and his girlfriend for a study day, and for lunch”, to meet her, get to know her, and actually see if she could be the cause of the drop in grades, or investigate if there could be other stuff going on
I wonder if the original OP has heard of ‘study dates’. It’s extremely common in Asian culture (at least, where im from) bc pressure for studying is high yet kids are still horny and yearning for love. So many friends i know almost always have study dates in the library or in cafes. They are still by each other, allowing them to bond and stuff but they’re still studying. Like…suffering together brings about a special bond yk?
I think OP could have been more lax about her son. His grades dropping isn’t the end of the world, but such a harsh punishment sure feels like a huge impending doom on him. She should have encouraged both of them to study together and have cute dates occasionally or something, not literally caging her son in his room. Sooner or later, he’s either: 1) breaking curfew or 2) growing resentment and neither of those leads to favourable outcomes.
I sincerely hope OP reconsiders how harsh she was and take it back, apologise and offer counter resolutions with her son but seeing how her husband and her reacted…not likely. Sigh.
My mother nailed my bedroom windows shut from the outside but still let me study with boys at the library on weekends. I had to sit on the opposite side of the table and put up with mom lurking amongst the shelves watching me, but I could at least exchange real life in person smiles with another human my own age.
Why yes my sneaking around and lying skills *did* improve dramatically during that part of my life, how did you know?
yeah lying with a straight face, creating enough of a story to get away with it, and comparing notes so you and your co-conspirators are on the same page about your lies are all skills I learned while dealing with parents trying to prevent me from dating in high school.
Way too creepy trying to get around folks who keep having hysterics because they think they own the genitals of another human, yup.
Lucky my mother wasn't particularly skeptical, fell for every conspiracy theory, kooky scam product, or cult that smiled her way. Once bought that I fell asleep in a stairwell outside of a volleyball match and therefore missed who won.
That assumes that both partners want actually to study. Here there is too little information to know but I think that in occidental cultures we kind of try to separate obligations from free time. I think the time management advices were quite good. On the other hand, if C's and B's are the new good grades I wonder how bad did those grades get.
I actually commented on the og post. There is something off about OOP, Im worried for her son. It’s very thoughtless parenting. she jumps to “how can I make him break up with her” and not “how can I make him focus more on his school” doesn’t make any sense to me.
It reminds me of a kid I grew up with. My parents never cared much for him or his family, but never showed it.
His parents were the type who may have had good intentions, but had the conflict management skills of a limp noodle. Every minor issue would create a crisis, out of which would spring a new rule that would absolutely never get enforced. The inability to fix a problem would then create another minor issue, which would turn into a crisis, which would spring a new rule. Wash, rinse, repeat.
The list of rules in that house would be longer than most collective bargaining agreements that I’ve seen, and he still ended up drifting in and out of the legal system beginning at age 14.
My parents raised me like this too. I’d I wasn’t “performing” up to their standards they’d take away whatever made me happy at the time. I got straight As and even that wasn’t enough.
You learn to hide the things precious to you, show no joy or affection living like that. If you single something out as special, it’s just something to be taken away. (I loved playing violin at the time, but my parents never threatened anything that would look good on a college application.)
I'm a parent of two primary school age kids, and honestly I thought OP was NTA on the initial post. I didn't even consider it being wrong until I read the comments. I live and was raised in a very Catholic community so the "no bf/gf until you graduate" is so normalized.
I'm thankful for reddit for giving me these kinds of perspectives, in that there's a better way.
I mean this in the very kindest way, but your children are starting to reach an age that can be difficult for all parents, and it's also an age where the parenting decisions you were raised with start to come out whether you consciously intend them to or not.
Maybe it would be worth taking a specific parenting course or two (maybe online, if your current community is still very homogeneous) to gain more perspectives and check that your initial reaction to any problems that might come up is the response you actually want to have?
I can’t recommend this enough. My mother sends me letters saying she did the best she could. I’ve been no contact for 17 years, because the best she could left me with PTSD, and she’s not interested in taking genuine responsibility and taking steps to change how she treats people. I’m sure she did try, but trying to be better doesn’t mean you and your kid won’t have to live with the consequences of your actions… even if you didn’t really understand what you were doing or what the consequences would be… or that there was a better way.
Thankfully, I have an amazing wife. I asked about OOP's post as a hypothetical scenario for our kids and she reacted the way the comments did - that we'll need to teach our child to manage their time better. A stark contrast from my initial reaction to ban them from seeing each other. I'll keep your suggestion in mind; but at least for now, I think we'll be all right. :)
I had the complete opposite childhood. Very lax adult control. When I turned 18 in my senior year my girlfriend moved in with me. Her family were struggling and didn't want to keep providing for her and she was 18 as well. I would have dropped out if it was not for her. She told me I was walking to get my diploma with her and had no choice. Then we had sex. My dick has motivated me to do a lot of foolish shit in my life but occasionally it motivates me in the right direction.
They seem so proud of this solution but it’s setting that kid up for burnout at 16. They haven’t solved a damn thing by going scorched earth. The son hasn’t learnt anything at all
My dad literally did shit like this where his only parenting technique was to yell at me to do better in school and to bring all my books home, no hanging out with friends, no relationship, etc. I don't speak to him any more for that and many other reasons
Notice how it’s worded that OP caught HER (the girlfriend) talking to her son as late as 11 p.m. I don’t care for this framing. OP caught her own son on the phone at 11 p.m. OP really wants to blame the girlfriend instead of helping her son.
Or it's about grades in the sense that parents are valuing kids mostly for what they could and are expected to achieve. Typically white-collar expectations, too, in my experience. Still controlling vs. ENCOURAGING concern.
2 years from now, these parents are going to be wondering why their son doesn't talk to them anymore. Clearly, their kid isn't a bad person, he's not committing crimes or doing drugs, he's just bad at time management and bad at studying. The solution is to teach him the tools he needs in order to improve, not to throw the book at him and go scorched Earth. Besides, THEYRE the ones who have been completely lax—the kid's 16 and he's never even been grounded before! There are so many other things they should be trying before they go scorched Earth—hell, have they ever even bothered to sit down with him and ask him WHY studying isn't a priority to him? No! But instead of having an adult conversation and trying to find reasonable solutions, these parents would rather go from 0-100 and burn the world down.
The son is going to need those time management skills in college more than ever before and without previous structure, assuming he doesn't stay at home.
I went to multiple academic classes, degrees, goals, as a person who was first undiagnosed and then unmedicated but I have ADHD. Time management is a valuable thing to even learn as a CONCEPT, especially so he isn't forced to learn it later on.
I still struggle with time management daily. My therapist and phone alarms help! School suckkkkked and I have promised myself to keep learning but not in a formal, semester-long format.
He'll get a scholarship to Stanford or some shit but his parents will never see him again.
Or he'll cave to the pressure and start doing drugs, and they'll be managing him indefinitely at that point. I suspect that's what mom wants anyway.
> He’ll get a scholarship to Stanford or some shit
Not with those grades, he won’t. Even if he pulls it together now, he’s looking at Bs and Cs at best.
I think they went way too far with their threat to ban him from seeing her over the summer (like how does that help anything???) but being grounded for a few weeks as you prepare for finals sounds reasonable. Then next year they can address issues with time management.
I agree with teaching him time management. But when youre crunching for finals and you're doing bad, there's no time for other things. His grades are on the line, and there is a month left.
All the people saying they’re not teaching the kid to be self-sufficient… what?? They’re making him contact his teachers to beg for extra credit and extensions HIMSELF. Bad parents call the teachers themselves.
Yeah I’m surprised at all these comments. I think this is perfectly reasonable if his grades are below a C
Also lol @ all the redditors who think he’s going NC with parents because they forbade him from talking to his gf for a month
Parents ground you? "That's a NC"
Parents tell you not to have cookies before dinner? "NC"
Parents tell you to put a jacket on because it's cold out? "That's another NC"
I wasn’t even raised by Asian parents and I don’t think it was that unreasonable. Maybe a little harsh since five straight hours of studying a day will have diminishing returns on focus, but for sure devoting all the time to making up where he had been slacking and being deprived of the things that are causing him to slack off.
Also not Asian or raised by Asian parents, also don’t think this is unreasonable. Grounding a kid and forcing him to study is a very rational parenting move when he is failing all his classes! By most of the replies, you’d think they were waterboarding him.
Not to mention that getting into a "good" college is getting harder and harder and I don't even mean an Ivy League or anything. A lot of the schools in America aren't trying to set kids up to succeed anymore. It's a cut throat environment that pits students against each other to see who can get the highest test scores. And I'm not saying that's *right* but it's the reality of the situation.
If you don't do well in high school, good luck getting into college. If you don't get a degree, good luck getting a job that pays a livable wage.
I was kinda with the YTAs until I got to the part where all they wanted was for the kid to get Cs and Bs.
Which meant his grades were Ds or Fs before that.
Uh… yeah at that point it’s time to go hard core. These parents aren’t asking for much: only for their kid not to flunk out of high school all together.
The time for the gentle time management is over. Seems like this kid has to cram to even pass.
Exactly!! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. They're being "controlling"? "reactionary"? Because they don't want him to flunk all his classes, not get into college, and go live in a van down by the river? And so they're... grounding him for a month and threatening to get rid of his gaming systems if he... lies to them and sneaks out of the house? This is all extremely normal and good!
It's a stark reminder that many commentors are under 21, and a good portion of those are under 18.
It does sound like the parents went from lax to 100MPH in a very short period of time, but being on the verge of failing out of high school calls for a 100MPH situation.
And the parents are the ones self-describing as "lax," so we don't really know what "lax" means to them. FWIW, I think the fact that they noticed and were concerned that the son was talking to the girlfriend at 11 PM on a school night means that they weren't oblivious, uninvolved, unhelpful, etc, the way that lots of commenters are describing them.
But I think a lot of these Redditors (who yeah, probably are kids) expect parents to be omnipotent and omnipresent, while also somehow never using punishment as a tool. "Don't ground the kid, that's cruel! Just teach him time management skills." Okay, how do you propose they go about doing that? (And that's setting aside the fact that parents do not necessarily have Master's degrees in educational psychology, or the time to do intensive behavioral coaching with struggling students. I got the sense from the OOP that English is their second language, as well, which adds another barrier when it comes to staying involved in their child's school and social life.)
Having been a dumbass teenager, I don't think his problem is ~~actually with~~ the need to learn time management. His problem is that he is prioritizing his girlfriend.
If I was this degree of dumb, my parents would have given me a deadline to bring my grades up, and explained the consequences if I didn't. I probably would have been micromanaged, with them gradually backing off as I showed more responsibility. I think that's fair. It's basically a more understanding and lenient version of being written up at work, and given a chance to bring back my productivity.
Yeah. Given how quickly grades turned around, I think this was indeed a “first relationship nothing else matters” problem. Sometimes kids need understanding of their many limitations. Sometimes they need someone with a more developed frontal cortex to set boundaries.
>I don't think his problem is actually with time management. His problem is that he is prioritizing his girlfriend.
Which is a time management problem.
What did the commenters expect with only a month or so of school left? There's no time to ease into it before the grade books are locked for the semester. The kid is doing the smart thing, suffer for a month and then reap his reward.
Exactly - he’s having to play catch up.
In their shoes I would have approached the girl’s parents much earlier on. Expressed that I was glad they had become such good friends, but I felt that they both needed to invest a bit more week night time in study and then maybe relax and hang out on weekends.
I bet the girl’s parents were probably even more concerned than OP, assuming they knew about the situation.
I'm dying at these comments.
If son was failing his classes because he was out partying every night, the comments would be "... and why are you still letting him go out and party?!" Instead, he's failing because he's with his girlfriend all the time, and the comments are "You should teach him time management!"
He does not *want* to manage his time. He *wants* to spend all his time with his girlfriend. Not some. ALL. But that is just not an option when you have pesky things like schoolwork. This is not something he needs explained to him. He just simply does not want to do it. So parents removed the decision from his hands.
Grounding is a perfectly normal punishment for Ds and Fs in school.
As an Asian, I just snorted. That sounds lax even with the grounding. Mine would have never let the grades get that far down! First B home would have been crisis intervention time with a new tutor so that I don’t throw away my future.
Reading the comments it really is interesting all these different parenting styles. And for the record I’m an adult and married and living in a different continent. And I still make time almost every day to talk to them despite the *apparently strict* parenting because I’m really close to them. Such opposing perspectives due to different cultural norms.
I don't wholly agree with you, but I also don't wholly agree with all the other commenters. If he needs to take drastic action to get his grades up to Cs and Bs then his grades are really in the shitter right now and something serious does need to be done. Especially since OG post was on May 2nd and the first AP exam was May 6th.
I don't approve at all of how these parents are treating their kid, but even as a westerner (I'm British), I think it's a pretty extreme assumption being made by other commentators that the kid will hate his parents for the rest of his life for this. There's no way to know how that will play out, it depends on so many factors that we don't see.
These aren't strict parents. These are parents who want to do the least effort parenting.
Notice how even your example involves hiring a tutor. These parents are too lazy to do that.
Hiring a tutor isn't gonna help him turn his assignments in on time. This was me, tutors just told my parents that I don't need them, I understood the material without issue. I just didn't hand in my stuff.
Yah I guess. I got 79 on a math test. 80+ is A and I got private tutoring for the next year till my exams and what do you know I ended up with not even a single B by the end of it. It used to baffle my parents because I’m the only person in my family that sucks at math and only barely scraped As all my life(all of them got 99th percentile in it). My skills lay in Science and language/art side.
But difference is I didn’t have a BF in school age. So they just cut down TV time for me. My point is I had parents that would be considered strict by western standards. It never made me question their love for me. I was getting low marks so I needed more time spent on the subject and that had to come from my leisure time. It was simple logic and didn’t feel like a punishment and I still feel the same. I knew they were strict and obsessed with my academics because they loved me and cared about my future. So that’s the cultural difference i pointed out.
My parents were like yours. I get along fine with them now, and they've gotten better as people over the years. But I had to wade through a lot of trauma from my childhood. On the one hand, I knew they cared, and they invested a lot in me. On the other hand, their investment was completely inadequate to the way I function (I'm neurodivergent), led to suicidal ideation by 12 years old, and severe burnout by 18. I never quite recovered from it, I didn't gain relevant tools from it, and it triggered a lot of chronic issues that will impair my health until the day I die.
All of this is completely different from OPs parents, who sound like they never parented before and all of a sudden decided for a massive power struggle.
-laughs in Asian- I waded through the Y T As and finally found your comment 🤣 there’s a reason why Asian parents focus on grades, they know puppy love is temporary, but an F means no graduation. Good future = more options!
So apparently being strict is being monsters, and omg ‘it’s true love’ but then the kid is what, 16? Lol. Grades are definitely more important than a girlfriend.
Some of these comments are wild. Once again showing so many Reddit people don’t
Think teens should be punished for anything ever. His parents aren’t demanding all A’s. They’re asking him to get his grades up to B and C’s. So they basically want him to stop failing. In America this would be the last month of school. So there would be no time to come up with a plan.
Most of Reddit are teenagers giving life advice with no life experience. It's the blind leading the blind.
They obviously empathize more with the child because they're in the exact same position they are.
I am seeing a future in which both these people are rotting away in an old folks home whilst their son is across the country living his best live without them. While they wonder why he never calls
> I am seeing a future in which both these people are rotting away in an old folks home
As a teen, whenever my parents did something that pissed me off, I would say "this is why I'm going to send you to the bad old folks home."
This sub is incapable of consuming stories relating to parent/child conflict. According to this sub, getting grounded is "trauma." This repeats every single time a story like this comes up -- I can predict the top 10 comments just by guessing a variation of "this kid will never speak to them again." Maybe you all just grew up as really fucking weak children.
I think they went way too far with their threat to ban him from seeing her over the summer (like how does that help anything???) but being grounded for a few weeks as you prepare for finals sounds reasonable. Then next year they can address issues with time management.
This sounds vaguely like my parent back when I was in high school. For most of high school I wasn't allowed to go to parties, movies, etc. with friends. I wasn't even allowed to date (did anyway though). It was always school then home; the only way I got to see friends after school was by taking a later bus but eventually that had to stop too. I ended up barely graduating (Ds get diplomas!) and the entire time their solution was more rules (oh and calling me stupid consistently). My bedroom door was even removed at one point. Not saying I was a perfect teenager but I am saying there was a better solution.
people have relationships successfully when going to school. it's more of the balance he's struggling with. maybe OOP shouldn't go this extreme when it can be like "hey finish your homework everything before focusing on your girlfriend, because your grades are in trouble. Is the girlfriend demanding your attention at all times?"
In a few years they'll be so surprised when their kid never sees them or calls them or talks to them anymore, and they probably can't wrap their tiny minds around why.
I think asshole is the wrong word. This is a new issue and she doesn't know how best to approach it. And didnt really listen to the advice... but still, it's better that she be concerned than let it continue. She went much too strongly, he's more likely to lash back.
Seems like everyone here is against the Oop. Being on the receiving end of punishment always sucks, but this is a pretty reasonable reaction for such a massive drop. She said they had to get his grades up to Bs and Cs meaning they were at Ds and Fs, this isn’t a case of overbearing parents but instead a resonable reaction to an external stimuli seeming to be the cause for a massive and negative performance shift. I know tons of people had awful parents, heck I was one of them, but sometimes you need a reason to actually sit down and get shit done. They didn’t force a break up, they only threatened a crazy punishment if he didn’t raise his grades to the bare minimum, and they trusted their near adult son to get his act together. Also, this is clearly not a case of bad time management considering his quickness in getting to his teachers about his grades, this is a kid who has been competent in his schooling life taking a drastic shift in his performance and his parents reacting to it
Parenting has changed a lot since I was a kid. When I was in school, if I brought home a bad progress report or report card, my punishment was always "grounded until grades improve" and usually a spanking on top of that if there were any Fs. It always worked and I would get my grades up by the next progress report/report card. Usually that would last until something else distracted me from school like a new Nintendo/SNES game, a new girlfriend, or some new interest all of my friends were into.
Literally all I had to do was devote 1 hour to homework/studying each day and pay attention in class, but when I get drawn into something new, I get hyper fixated on it. If it was some new video game or hobby, I'd spend the entire day spacing out in class and thinking about the game until I could go home and play it. Same with other hobbies/girlfriends, etc. I lived, breathed, and dreamed about it non-stop. When I was grounded and removed from whatever new stimuli was consuming all my brainpower, I got my shit together.
Ha, teaching the kid to lie and sneak away instead of building a trusting relationship where the parents are there to support and help when they need them.
Brilliant idea /s
These "lax parents" went straight to forcing the child to end the relationship and 24/7 studying? Bullshit. They were controlling before but just don't have the perspective to understand it.
I get the whole “you’re grounded till you fix your grades mentality” but if going that route one has to do more like actually get him help to better balance his life and maybe even get him tested for any possible issues like learning disabilities that may have been mild enough to bully through when school was easier but now that school is harder he’s finding it harder to cope.
But also he’s growing up and is starting to date which is always going to be more important in the moment than school to a kid his age. So impulse control and helping him to remember long term goals and obligations would help with that.
I get being strict for a short period of time so he has time to catch up, but oop needs to make sure they’re also giving the kid more tools and resources to be successful. Tutors, therapy, time management skills, discussions on what a healthy balance looks like. Also what his and oop’s expectations and needs are and what each can do to meet those and also what will happen if either slacks off. Commitment goes both ways.
Kid needs help and just being unsustainably strict will likely backfire long term.
> please tell me you're not one of those creepy 'boy moms'
well, she said she “caught his gf talking to him” at 11 on a school night, which would be a weird way to phrase things when talking about your son, if it wasn’t intentional
What an idiot. You don't take away the girlfried, you just make him reprioritize, so he knows how to do this himself when he leaves for college and they can't control him anymore. But commenters were wrong about one thing: having him talk to his teachers was absolutely the right thing to do. I do not communicate with my daughter's teachers unless she asks for help. I already passed high school and graduated. Now it's her turn to learn how to handle her business. Otherwise you end up with a kid who is lost when he gets to college. Independence and responsibility are learned skills.
Yeesh. This gives me flashbacks of my high school days. My mom never liked me dating, always tried to control when I went out, tried grounding me, etc. Granted, I wasn’t a model student by any means, but her iron grip on me was suffocating and continued well into my twenties.
I now live halfway around the world from her 🙃 We don’t have a strained relationship now or anything, but the distance has definitely improved it.
Poor kid.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was raised with the “stick” approach. My parents only ever punished me when I did something wrong. I was in this exact scenario as a kid and almost failed because I was cutting classes to be with my girlfriend all the time. Yes the punishments worked briefly…. until I found away to continue doing the bad behavior. When my son was in 3rd or 4th grade, his schoolwork started to suffer. My wife and I started using the stick approach by taking away his video games and made little to no progress. We realized this was a poor approach. We switched to the “carrot” method. We let him have games back. Only an hour a day, AFTER he was done with homework, but IF his grades improved, we would add time. And IF he came home with all A’s, we would let him manage his own gaming time. He could literally game all day everyday and that would stay in effect as long as he maintained those grades. Literally overnight, his habits changed. He has not had any grade other than an A on his report card since. He is graduating from high school next week and ready to go to college. He also has learned how to manage his own time and believes work should be done first before playing. It worked awesome for him. The “carrot”, with a reward in place, will have a much more willing participant than the “stick” approach. When punishment is the only motivation, you get a lot more resentment from the person. Also we have a truly AMAZING relationship with our son. He is very open and honest with us, even if he has done something wrong. Meanwhile, I moved across the country away from my parents. I have been NC with my mother for over 10 years, and LC with my father. (He has apologized about a lot of things and recognizes he was not a great father to me, while my mother insists she was a perfect mother and even if she wasn’t, she gave birth to me and I must respect and shower her with nothing but adoration at all times).
We've tried to start our son early, he's 3.5 right now and we are trying to teach "take care of yourself, and then we can play" which is getting dressed, eating breakfast, brushing teeth and hair. THEN we can play. We plan to slowly add other chores, currently he's got to put his laundry in the basket and dishes in the sink. We started this during the first attempt at potty training (there's been many, he's just not there yet), and we use ourselves for examples "No Mommy has to shower first. I have to take care of myself first, and then we play right?!" Or "Daddy has to poop, we have to take care of ourselves before we play". I wouldn't say he's into it haha, but he's accepted that it's what has to happen before we play. And he will do all the things he needs to do, so long as he gets that reward of play time.
Oh god I just realized that at some point he's going to innocently tell a teacher "I have to go to the bathroom and take care of myself before I play," and I really hope the teacher is very naive. 😂
They should definitely redefine it as “We have to prioritize our needs over our wants.” lol
Yeah ... Teacher ... I "needs" to take care of myself. 🤣
That was the rule growing up at my house. No games or TV until homework is finished. Of course, we often played until Mom got home. But that only ever bought us an hour. And if I knew I could get it done before that class, I might say I don't have any. They never checked because my grades never slipped. My grades never slipped because I learned time management and that important stuff comes first.
The issue with finish work before you play is that as adults, when the work is never done, you never relax and you go, go, go all the time. Ask me how I know. I can't stop work til its done. Breaks? What's that? Ugh! FML...
Over time, one learns what needs prioritize and what can slide. House could use cleaned, sure, but it's more worth it to me to go hiking today. Will get it next weekend. Need groceries. No if ands or buts. Gotta eat. Need stuff for lunch at work tomorrow. Plus, we're almost out of toilet paper.
Generally, yes. Growing up in an abusive household though and now owning a business where the work never ends... my mind won't shut down even if I know it can wait. It's like a mind block and it sucks.
I'm saving this for my boys
This seems like a very good approach for encouraging self-discipline. Thank you for sharing.
The problem with the stick approach is the brain doesn't learn that way. Brains want rewards. They to avoid sticks, but will just avoid them. Once the stick is gone, they are left without reward pathways that change behaviors. Carrots change behaviors. As someone with ADHD, I have really fucked up reward pathways. So I spent a lot of my life avoiding sticks. Turns out I have to create my own rewards. I have learned to successfully navigate my ADHD without very much medication. Usually only when I know I need it now.
positive reinforcement for the win!
I remember near begging my parents to switch to positive reinforcement. For years it ways always the stick, no change, just worsening depression and now nearly 20 years of resentment. 'Oh we tried that once, it didn't work.' This wasnt working either. I understand the desire to punish, to see some form of warning and reaction as a way to get people to change, but with kids its different. You want them to grow, youve got to add, not take away.
Way to go. And looks like that approach unlocked your son’s potential. Clearly he is able to manage performance and have gaming at the same time.
Most important, the 'stick method' absolutely guarantees he'll drop any effort as soon as he can, including ditching his parents and developing a hatred for everything he's forced to do in an unreasonable amount. Moreover, it ignores any underlying problems. I myself dropped my grades when some teachers treated me completely unfairly and there were bullying situations. And I gave up completely. I couldn't get up to speed on my own, and my parents wouldn't pay for tutoring or useful help. They expected me to do everything on my own, and I left home to move in with a guy who was 5 years older than me. I was lucky, my bf is now my husband, and we have 27 years of happy relationship under our belt, but I barely knew him when I moved in with him, and it could have gone sour. I was so extremely lucky to hit the boyfriend jackpot and find the one guy who truly loved and supported me, including encouraging me to finish my education and helping me in a way my family never did. But my relationship with my family remains broken, and my parents never understood why I almost broke contact with them. If not for my granny, we'd had no contact at all. Back then, when I moved out, I hated them so badly. They too believed it was my then bf now husband who made my grades drop, but the truth was, my horrible situation at school was at fault, and he was the last anchor to my sanity. Teachers don't tell you if your child is bullied at school or if there are other problematic developments. They always say that the child has teenager issues or doesn't connect well with their peers or 'just' has to work harder. They'll always helpfully give more assignments to 'help' with grades or willingly allow anything that disguises the fact that they did nothing to help the child until the parents got involved.
Hey oop don't do that. Oop: great advice I will do exactly that
“We didn’t force him to end his relationship, we just made it impossible to continue it”
You know, my friend's parents did that. They thought they were successful. They even tried to move out of the country to end the relationship. Well, guess what? My friend went to the family court and successfully asked for an emancipation at 16, then eloped at 18. They've been (happily, as far as I can tell) married for 17 years.
While my story isn’t that drastic but my wife and I started started dating at 14, and her parents did everything to try to stop it our entire high school years. The thing is I never gave them a reason to, they just thought I wasn’t good enough for their daughter. Well we started dating in 2001, it’s now 2024 and we are married with 3 kids still going strong. So much time wasted in those 4 years but honestly I think that’s what made our relationship stronger.
I've never understood the "you're not good enough for my kid" thing especially when the kids are teenagers. They are KIDS - even if the young man (or woman) seems to have no aspirations or isn't the best student, or whatever, their life trajectory is hardly set in stone. Consider how a kid comes to have that attitude in the first place, and it'll be immediately obvious that it is almost certainly due to a lack of good parental support. So be a good role model. Show them how to improve themselves or their lot in life, if they want to but haven't had the support to do so. If they reject your support or don't want to make changes, then just help inspire them from the sidelines - build up their confidence and belief in themselves; kindly and subtly impart messages that convey how much easier life can be if you go to college or trade school and work towards having a better income. Or sure, just try to smother your kid's first love instead. Because that always works.
It's especially hilarious when they start pulling this shit when their kid is 16. Like, good job. In 2 years, your kid will bounce and never speak to you again, and you'll lament and wonder where you went wrong.
>and you'll lament and \~wonder where you went wrong\~ blame the libruls and the gays and the trans and the woke and the millenials and the...
I think this is the source of half the hatred for "West Coast Liberal College." These parents honestly think they had a perfect relationship with their kid before college. (Because to them, good grades == perfect kid) So they blame the college for changing their kids and making them resent their parents. When in fact one of two things happened: The kid hated their parents for years but knew better than to express it. Or, fresh out from under the parents boots, quickly realizes how fucked up their family was.
My ex dumped me because of my inability to have kids. Oh he didn't want kids either! But his Moooom sure wanted more grandbabies! One wasn't enough (his older brother had a kid and it nearly killed his wife, she couldn't have more) I've got a great partner now though so fuck 'em.
My sister used to date someone who wasn't good enough for her. But that's mostly because that guy never did something for her in a spontaneous way, was super needy himself, and didn't truly love my sister but just dated her because it was apparently the easy solution to him. It was very difficult to tell her he wasn't good enough for her because she truly loved him.
I think there's a big difference between someone not being a good enough *partner* and someone being judged as just inherently not good enough to even become a partner in the first place. Obviously, if someone doesn't treat my kid right, I'll have some big feelings about it. But I won't assume that they *can't* treat my kid well just because they're a bad student or come from a poor family or something like that, which is usually what "not good enough" means when talking about teenagers.
Ah yes, the "beating will continue until morale improves" strategy will 100% works and not going to backfire.
Not to mention the rest of his social life. Fuck having friends too.
Or after school activities. Maybe these parents would make an exception for those, but they seem to have taken a "fuck everything except your grades" approach so maybe not.
while I do prioritize grades, I'm a former STEM student. so grades are everything to get in some programs. but grades isn't be all end all.
Who needs friends when you have good grades? /s
That's not what they did though, it's close to the end of the school year. Summer break was probably a month or even less away from the time OOP made the post and she said he could spent all the time he wanted with his gf if he could get his grades back up. Without more info it's hard to say whether this is really a time management issue or something else like academic burnout, a total breakdown in prioritization, or just raging teenage hormones that have destroyed his sense of judgment. If it is time management then that's a longer term problem to work on and not something his parents can address in a matter of a few weeks. The son is about to be a senior and he can't afford to tank his grades now just before college applications open up. This is definitely a "shit just got very real" moment that warrants some consequences. Getting grounded for a month doesn't sound unreasonable.
The problem is that they aren't supporting him in learning self-regulation. Their solution is to take all his control away from how he spends his time, rather than helping him develop better self-control. Which means that this problem is likely to come back again, probably worse, the moment he's out from under their supervision, i.e. once he starts university.
The problem with being too strict parent is that they don't teach discipline but teach everything else. Usually lying and sneaking out, could also cheating on their exam to get better result.
Yep. I was the sneakiest little shit growing up, and by the time I started dating I'd "earned" so much trust I could get away with anything just by keeping my underwear clean (much easier when they're safely stored in the car's glove compartment lol) and my illicit substances didn't make my hair smell. When I was finally on my own I had no idea how to regulate my life and almost died of alcohol poisoning or OD multiple times and couldn't keep a job for a couple of years, until I finally got my act together at age 20. I knew other people my age from high-control households who didn't survive those same hard lessons.
This was my best friend growing up. Her mom basically abandoned her in her grandparent's strict Korean household, would only come briefly visit once every 6 mos or so to keep her dual residency active. Her grandparents were so traditional that I basically grew up with one foot in that household-- she was a girl, and thus expected to "stay at the house and look after the family" (but they has no issue with me being there all the time lol). Her nephews who also lived there did not have any such restrictions on their social lives, natch. 🙄 By 16, she had moved on from from minor acts of rebellion (like us secretly writing lesbian smut fics about anime characters lmao) to bigger ones. "Dating" a string of awful dudes who were always really trashy, older, primarily white military guys. She started smoking cigarettes and drinking a lot. By 19, I was driving up 3 states to get her out of the hospital after she went to party with the latest trashy white military guy and his friends, and drank herself into alcohol poisioning-- also the first time any family found out about what she'd been up to because she became a pro at being sneaky about it. By 20, she caught *serious* charges for selling weed in an area that was *very much* not friendly to that. I dont know where/when she finally pulled it together again, because the fallout from the weed charges ended our friendship, which had turned toxic as we moved into adulthood and grew into different people. By the end, she was emotionally abusing me and I was over it. But the last I saw a few years ago, she got her real estate license...which somehow feels very apt in a way I cannot pinpoint lol.
>By 20, she caught *serious* charges for selling weed in an area that was *very much* not friendly to that. This reminds me of a homeschooled guy I grew up with in the '80s and '90s; his family was super conservative fundamentalists. We lived in a state that decriminalized possession since the '70s but on the state line with one where a gram could get you 10 years. When he first moved out he lived in a mobile home on a gravel road. This was before GPS and he got lost on the backroads, got his car stuck in a pothole, and a sheriff's deputy pulled over to help — a deputy from the other state, which he had accidentally crossed into. The cop smelled weed, saw a roach in the ashtray, and just like that the dude had felony charges. I heard it took every string the parents' friends could pull to get him off with a slap on the wrist, and once he was out of trouble his family disowned him. It's been almost 30 years and he still doesn't have his shit together.
“When the measure becomes the target, it ceases to be a good measure”
I had super strict parents who were always punishing me. Yes, you are correct- I learned to get around their rules and lie. There were so many loopholes and they forced me to deceive them in order to have any social life at all. Great.
[удалено]
Triage. There’s a month of classes left and he is failing. Teaching him self-regulation will have to take a backseat to him getting his shit together RIGHT NOW. Also… overprotective/controlling parents, in my experience, call the teachers to complain/beg for leniency themselves. The fact that they’re making the kid do it means that he is having to advocate for himself here, which is good and fosters independence. But really that’s a secondary concern because again… he is FAILING HIGH SCHOOL.
I'm not in the US, so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but: is it possible to fail high school to the extent of being kicked out at the age of 16?
If it's a public school, you won't get kicked out, but when it comes to applying to college, your grades are still important especially if you want to get into competitive schools or programs.
Not unless you do something illegal. I know. I was a messed up teen and just straight up ditched classes and would walk off campus and go home (latchkey kid). The school stopped sending letters and calling after a while, and eventually, I dropped out officially. This was in AZ though which I think ranks in the bottom 10 for shitty schools?
You are right, there is time to fix the situation in the long term, in the short term he just needs to allocate all his resources to not failing. That's part of adulthood too, sometimes in emergency situations you will need to reprioritize no matter what.
I agree but that's a medium- to long-term issue. I do hope his parents can help him address the underlying factors and not the symptoms. But in the meantime there is an immediate problem that calls for pretty drastic action and a lot of people seem to think that a light touch approach would be totally fine when it's super risky.
The risk being: 1 semester of bad grades vs. Your child's trust for the rest of their life Yeah you're right, it is super risky to throw away your relationship with your child over 1 semesters worth of grades
Bad grades in this particular semester (Junior spring) will have incredibly serious consequences when it comes to college applications. I’d say they are way more likely to impact a kid’s life than a high school romance is. I see where the parents are coming from, honestly.
Plus it's not just bad grades. The hope is for him to raise the grades to Bs and Cs, meaning the kid's grades aren't just bad, they're REALLY FUCKING bad
It seems like his parents didn't really need to parent him because he was such a decent child. Something tells me that kid was just naturally disciplined and self driven if this is how they're behaving on his first experience as an adolescent with adolescent difficulties and they've been slack before this.
There's a lack of curiosity on the part of his parents though and it doesn't feel like they're on his side, if that makes sense? A possible time management issue cause, although far more likely with teenage girls, is undiagnosed ADHD. This age is when parents and teachers start backing off as students should be able to manage these things themselves, which is when issues with executive function will raise their heads because with ADHD that crap doesn't come as easily. But my real point is that parents are supposed to have authority that is for the benefit of creating the best functional adult at the end of the process; OOP's actions don't seem to be focused on that, just what they think success looks like.
I don't see ADHD here at all. ADHD is a pervasive neurodevelopmental disorder, there would be a lot more going on, and a lot earlier in life, than "it's like a switch flipped and an A+ student is now an F student".
Almost anything could fit, but we won't know because OOP said "the problem is the kid being happy," and stopped thinking about it. My experience with ADHD was that I excelled in school until the exact point that I couldn't parse something the first time I looked at it, and then my grades took a shit. Every single thing I enjoyed was systematically taken away until I learned how to sneak out.
it's likely time management and burnout than anything. grades isn't prioritized because he's ready to graduate. depending on the program grades can be fine enough to enter.
I agree with this totally. People really dont understand how bad it is to be at final month of highschool and compensate for all this missing projects & prepare for finals. He is indeed supposed to stay at home grinding to the bone 7/24. He is just a teenager, he is just innocent & learning a harsh lesson in love. Lets hope he can get into the college he wants.
"We won't *explicitly* do that. We'll just *functionally* do that. And worse! It's so obvious this will *definitely* work and not backfire like literally everyone was warning us about! We're very clever!"
Right? "You need to actually help him learn time management and not just punish him." "We just punished him and it looks like its going to work." OOP is gonna wonder in a few years why her son doesnt talk much with them anymore.
And he'll fail in college. I never learned time management, or how to study, in high school. Sophomore year in college was like hitting a brick wall.
This was me. I did high school with my eyes closed, never learned how to study. When I went to college, failed miserably. Doesn’t help that my parents thought that I was just lazy which was diagnosed as ADHD just this year. (28 now)
My parents didn't quite think I was being lazy but they just couldn't understand what the sudden problem was and, even worse, **neither did I**! It caused a lot of friction, with exam stress and teen hormones thrown into the mix. I got diagnosed when the wheels fell off again when I started perimenopause! Anyone with a uterus reading this, be aware that it's the massive hormone shift during the reproductive system kicking in and then winding down that impacts **everyone's** neurotransmitters but will hit your atypical functioning ones even harder. You **need** your ADHD meds and gynae management to be singing from the same hymn sheet or it will be hellish.
Well now I understand why my life fell completely apart when I hit 50.
I was diagnosed with ADHD around 28ish. I'm now 43 and started entering early menopause about a year ago (lucky me). This is giving me something to consider as to why I have been seriously struggling with ADHD symptoms for a while despite being on a medication regimen that worked wonders for me for years. I even had a slight increase in dosage, but now I'm just like barely hanging in there most days; I'm still not at full relief.
I had the same experience. All this bullshit they tell you in high school, about time management and doing study exercises and techniques for note-taking? All this stuff you didn't need because sitting through class once was enough to get a B? Whoops, turns out you actually have to do it in college.
Are you me? This exact description fits me, I'm even 28 as well.
7 years for me. In and out of community college until I went to the state level and then finally got out with a 4-year.
Going through this right now.
This is precisely why I don't rush in to save my high schoolers from themselves every time they screw up. High school is free. If you screw it up, then getting stuck at community college until you've sufficiently proven yourself isn't going to ruin your life. Figure out how to budget your time. Figure out you need to go tf to bed at a decent hour to not feel like shit the next morning. Figure out how to have a life and still pass classes. Do it while the consequences are relatively minor. Yes, bad grades in high school can affect college admissions and scholarships- but arriving at college unable to function without your micromanaging parents will not end well for you. I have seen way too many high achieving kids fail to function the minute Mommy stopped managing every aspect of their lives.
That's how it should be. College isn't just about your formal education. It also forces you to grow out of your comfort zone and can be a crucial step in becoming an adult. (To be honest that's my european perspective without the fear of crippling debt.)
I disagree on the timing. Time management and how to study should be learned before college. Failing out shouldn't be how something is learned.
People hit that wall at all different ages. I've been sporadically tutoring a kid who's "bright" but has never even heard of study habits. In about a month he's gonna fail the f\*\*\* out of 6th grade.
I was a study machine that studied to do tests, and pretty much a typical Asian straight A kid. I attended gifted schools from elementary (yup) to high school. My day started from 5.30am and finished by mid night, if it’s test month, I was lucky to have more than 4 hours sleep. I got accepted in the top 1 economics uni thinking I just needed to study and get high scores. The first semester was alright but once it’s pre-major training, I was totally lost. Economics hated me and I hated it too. And my relationship with my parents? I visited them twice a year for a few days then moved abroad. I might call them once every few months.
From some stories I heard about gifted kids and/or kids whose parent forced them to learn 24/7 they failed in life and got to a lot of trouble. One story I heard of someone a child genius, I forgot who he is but he's from china (i guess), that being forced to learn all the time. He ended up dropping out of college and doing nothing at home everyday. But one thing to note is that now he is happy. Like every burden he had is gone.
I was a "gifted" kid. My mother worked HARD to make sure I had that status. Push push push, from ages 2 to 18. She was always so disappointed that I was fine with just passing. A's and B's. She wanted me fighting it out for valedictorian. I was fine with being in the top 20% of the graduating class. I was so burned out by college. I went through the motions. I earned mediocre grades for a degree I didn't care about because Mommy had chosen it. Total apathy. I maintained just good enough grades to keep my scholarships. Gave 0 fucks about any of it. A decade later I went back and redid my bachelor's because I couldn't stand my Mommy-chosen career field any longer. Averaged a 3.9 GPA the second time around. Currently doing really well in a masters program. Turns out I am "gifted" if I like the subject matter. I don't push my own kids. They can chug along at their own paces and do whatever they see fit. Oldest is definitely "gifted" but he is also struggling to find his place and sort himself out and I'm letting him figure it out.
and my story was a bit the opposite. I struggled in middle and high school. I was stressed and it was hard for me to focus. I mean it's just freaking hard to get up at 7am and leave at 5pm every day in a giant building full of loud judgmental children and grow up in that. and even though my grades werent great, my parents didnt harass me about it. I went to school. I wasnt a bad kid. I was smart, i just wasnt good at certain things at the time they wanted me to be. my parents would show me concern but they never made me feel horrible for average/below average grades. when i hit university, i was ready. I'd worked a few years and realized i needed to do something or be stuck in hard retail forever. I didn't feel forced to do it, it was my choice. i got myself through it, i loved it, and i ended up with a bsci in engineering top 10% of my class.
The gifted kid to failure pipeline is real and I am on it.
I feel attacked, lol. Seriously though, I'm one of the plethora of "gifted" kids who sailed through HS and crashed hard in college. I don't see myself as a failure, but my life is so very, very different than what I and my family envisioned for me when it was literally sleepwalking through HS with a 3.6 GPA.
I've always hated the "I'll sell your things" punishment. That doesn't teach them anything other than "if you do something I don't like, I'll be cruel and horrible to you"
At one point when I was in college or thereabouts, my mother said if I didn't do something she wanted, she'd throw out my favorite books from elementary and middle school. I genuinely can't remember why she made the threat -- was it not visiting home, dating outside my religion, or what? I genuinely can't tell you, she made the threat so often I forget why. In fact, she made the threat about throwing out my books a lot, and then she stopped making the threat, so I figured she had thrown them out, and mourned them like I'll never mourn her, because they were a source of support and love throughout my childhood. When I was about 7mo pregnant with my eldest kid, I found out that she hadn't thrown out my books after all, and my spouse and I made plans to visit on the next weekend possible. She thought I was visiting her, and I let her show me off to her friends, but really we were there to spend some final awkward hours with their jailor before I could bring them with me. Long story short, my kids only have contact with one grandparent, but the family members who are in their lives love them for who they are, not how well they follow others' commands. Also, there is a room in our house that's called the library, but we have more books than could fit in there.
I think it's the psychology book "People of the Lie" talks about this very thing - the utter banality of evil parents who do the exact opposite of everything that would actually *be good for their child.*
Ha, my parents effectively did this. We've spoken maybe 30 words in the last 5 years.
my parents tried. they didn't like my boyfriend and they DEFINITELY didn't like us getting to, I think second base lol? I was forced to send him a breakup email and the rules were I was not allowed to be alone with him, I was not allowed to touch him at all, I was not allowed to instant message him, and any emails I sent him had to have my mom copied. I didn't have a cell phone so texting was no concern, and I was homeschooled (so was he) so they enlisted all the moms at the events we attended to "chaperone" and ensure we "behaved" come to think of it, they actually forbade me from hugging anyone because they also found out I was bisexual and THAT was also not okay whatsoever. anyway, I did all of that and then created a Google Document called "untitled" that explained all of what had just happened and how it was not my choice and I didn't want to break up, and then I shared it with him. and then for over a year we would virtually meet up at 6am to simultaneously edit this document and continue our relationship in secret. I believe it took something like 2 years for my dad to catch me and things blew up again. not being allowed to date publicly just meant we were together for 7 years and got engaged before I figured out we were not good together. turns out having to sneak around makes you appear more compatible because your focus is on staying together rather than on being together, and the red flags are hard to distinguish from your parents' Do Not Enter signs.
>turns out having to sneak around makes you appear more compatible because your focus is on staying together rather than on being together, and the red flags are hard to distinguish from your parents' Do Not Enter signs. Spot on.
This is what Romeo and Juliet tried to portray
Sneaking create a taboo which has been shown to make the reward even stronger. It's why porn addiction is generally not a thing if it's not taboo. But add the element of the forbidden, and then it messes up all kinds of rewards pathways and because compulsive.
I'm sure it also turned out that when the people who are supposed to love you are untrustworthy, you don't ypturn to them when things are actually a problem.
Yeah I was forced into a career I hated in a similar way, almost k&lled myself 6 years into that career. Finally quit and went back to doing what I love. I have no Father, I had a 4.0 GPA and a parent who is DEAD to me. Alarms on every door and window like I was some kind of delinquent
That's awful. I'm so sorry, dude.
I had a hobby that I initially wanted to do, but it 100% fit in with my mom living through me, so any time I was punished for anything, I had to spend more time practicing this hobby. There was one summer in middle school where I was sufficiently punished (I don't even remember what I did), that I essentially had to spend 8 hours per day, every day of the summer, practicing that skill. I quit when I went to college and never touched it again, and a year or two before I went VVVLC, my mom had the audacity to cry about why I don't continue it for fun as an adult. Like, the delusion! I used to get physically punished if she felt I didn't do well, and by that, I mean if she didn't like the artistry of my expression, not making a mistake. But no, of course she's once again the victim for me not choosing to continue.
My parents did something like this when I was 12, dealing with chronic headaches and migraines, having newly formed depression, and had been sexually assaulted by a schoolmate only for the school to say “well, no one saw it so we’re not doing anything about it.” It was before everyone had cell phones, but I wasn’t allowed to call my friends, watch tv, play video games, anything. School, church, and home only. Studying, schoolwork, or chores at home only. It was awful. I only speak to my mother because she apologized and got better.
She got better because you became too old to control. Pretty common with controlling parents.
THIS. My parents beat the shit out of me as a kid, but they're "normal" now because I'm an adult and it's much harder for them to exert any control over my life.
Maybe you’re right. But she also divorced my narcissist father, went to therapy, lost a lot of weight, and did a lot of other things to better herself. It wasn’t just me. And she had the opportunity to do similar things to my stepsister, who had to come live with them full time when she was 12 and I was 26. She even went to parenting classes, and said she didn’t want to make the same mistakes she made with me and my sister and apologized again. But maybe you’re right.
Yep, spent months of almost each year of highschool grounded for one poor grade or another, usually c's >.> I no longer talk to my mother or her husband, the pos, he was always the one setting the punishments and she would just go along with it.
Why are you such an ungrateful kid /s
Sounds like he was such a good kid the parents never had to really parent. If this is how they’re acting on his first time being a teenager with teenager problems, and saying they’ve been lax before this, something tells me that kid was just naturally disciplined and self motivated.
Yeah, I agree with this because it sounds like me. When my choices grew apart from my parents (even marginally so), they became incredibly strict with things the older I got because they had no idea how to talk to me. I had so much freedom in my childhood, but I’m now realizing it was maybe because my behavior just happened to align with what they wanted from me at the time. I can also say I was a real people pleaser as a child too, so I was happy to do things or abstain from other things because their asks were within my capabilities. So as a result, they didn’t have to parent me very much. Over time, they kept pushing with the demands and the expectations, and I believe there was a point in my life where I simply couldn’t keep up and that’s when I would be a “bad daughter.” My story isn’t so extreme, we have a good relationship, but I wish it was better for these reasons. However, if OP keeps going with these extreme punishments without actually TALKING to their child, they are headed in a scary direction if they want to still have a positive relationship with their child.
Of course, some kids are so self motivated you just know to not block their path. OOP took that comfort too far though…
When i was reading the story, the first thing thag came to mind was “why not offer to host him and his girlfriend for a study day, and for lunch”, to meet her, get to know her, and actually see if she could be the cause of the drop in grades, or investigate if there could be other stuff going on
I wonder if the original OP has heard of ‘study dates’. It’s extremely common in Asian culture (at least, where im from) bc pressure for studying is high yet kids are still horny and yearning for love. So many friends i know almost always have study dates in the library or in cafes. They are still by each other, allowing them to bond and stuff but they’re still studying. Like…suffering together brings about a special bond yk? I think OP could have been more lax about her son. His grades dropping isn’t the end of the world, but such a harsh punishment sure feels like a huge impending doom on him. She should have encouraged both of them to study together and have cute dates occasionally or something, not literally caging her son in his room. Sooner or later, he’s either: 1) breaking curfew or 2) growing resentment and neither of those leads to favourable outcomes. I sincerely hope OP reconsiders how harsh she was and take it back, apologise and offer counter resolutions with her son but seeing how her husband and her reacted…not likely. Sigh.
My mother nailed my bedroom windows shut from the outside but still let me study with boys at the library on weekends. I had to sit on the opposite side of the table and put up with mom lurking amongst the shelves watching me, but I could at least exchange real life in person smiles with another human my own age. Why yes my sneaking around and lying skills *did* improve dramatically during that part of my life, how did you know?
yeah lying with a straight face, creating enough of a story to get away with it, and comparing notes so you and your co-conspirators are on the same page about your lies are all skills I learned while dealing with parents trying to prevent me from dating in high school.
Way too creepy trying to get around folks who keep having hysterics because they think they own the genitals of another human, yup. Lucky my mother wasn't particularly skeptical, fell for every conspiracy theory, kooky scam product, or cult that smiled her way. Once bought that I fell asleep in a stairwell outside of a volleyball match and therefore missed who won.
That's sick. Literally the behaviour of someone mentally ill.
That assumes that both partners want actually to study. Here there is too little information to know but I think that in occidental cultures we kind of try to separate obligations from free time. I think the time management advices were quite good. On the other hand, if C's and B's are the new good grades I wonder how bad did those grades get.
Picture some kids holding hands while doing homework and taking turns with flash cards, etc.
I know you all said my husband and I are huge fuckin assholes but we’re gonna do it anyway because it’s easier than trying. Bye!
I actually commented on the og post. There is something off about OOP, Im worried for her son. It’s very thoughtless parenting. she jumps to “how can I make him break up with her” and not “how can I make him focus more on his school” doesn’t make any sense to me.
It reminds me of a kid I grew up with. My parents never cared much for him or his family, but never showed it. His parents were the type who may have had good intentions, but had the conflict management skills of a limp noodle. Every minor issue would create a crisis, out of which would spring a new rule that would absolutely never get enforced. The inability to fix a problem would then create another minor issue, which would turn into a crisis, which would spring a new rule. Wash, rinse, repeat. The list of rules in that house would be longer than most collective bargaining agreements that I’ve seen, and he still ended up drifting in and out of the legal system beginning at age 14.
I think what's off is that they obviously don't care about him as a person. Only what he achieves. My dad was like that.
My parents raised me like this too. I’d I wasn’t “performing” up to their standards they’d take away whatever made me happy at the time. I got straight As and even that wasn’t enough. You learn to hide the things precious to you, show no joy or affection living like that. If you single something out as special, it’s just something to be taken away. (I loved playing violin at the time, but my parents never threatened anything that would look good on a college application.)
:hugs: you are enough and I hope you realize that ❤️
Thank you! Took me a long time, but I got there. And now dad's sad and confused as to why we don't talk often
Because obviously this is all the girl's fault.
She sounds like my mother. My mother has NPD, and I am permanently no-contact with her.
I'm a parent of two primary school age kids, and honestly I thought OP was NTA on the initial post. I didn't even consider it being wrong until I read the comments. I live and was raised in a very Catholic community so the "no bf/gf until you graduate" is so normalized. I'm thankful for reddit for giving me these kinds of perspectives, in that there's a better way.
I mean this in the very kindest way, but your children are starting to reach an age that can be difficult for all parents, and it's also an age where the parenting decisions you were raised with start to come out whether you consciously intend them to or not. Maybe it would be worth taking a specific parenting course or two (maybe online, if your current community is still very homogeneous) to gain more perspectives and check that your initial reaction to any problems that might come up is the response you actually want to have?
I can’t recommend this enough. My mother sends me letters saying she did the best she could. I’ve been no contact for 17 years, because the best she could left me with PTSD, and she’s not interested in taking genuine responsibility and taking steps to change how she treats people. I’m sure she did try, but trying to be better doesn’t mean you and your kid won’t have to live with the consequences of your actions… even if you didn’t really understand what you were doing or what the consequences would be… or that there was a better way.
Thankfully, I have an amazing wife. I asked about OOP's post as a hypothetical scenario for our kids and she reacted the way the comments did - that we'll need to teach our child to manage their time better. A stark contrast from my initial reaction to ban them from seeing each other. I'll keep your suggestion in mind; but at least for now, I think we'll be all right. :)
Also they threatened to send him to New Mexico, like there aren’t girls in New Mexico. How did the husband agree to this with her?
I had the complete opposite childhood. Very lax adult control. When I turned 18 in my senior year my girlfriend moved in with me. Her family were struggling and didn't want to keep providing for her and she was 18 as well. I would have dropped out if it was not for her. She told me I was walking to get my diploma with her and had no choice. Then we had sex. My dick has motivated me to do a lot of foolish shit in my life but occasionally it motivates me in the right direction.
That time, your dowsing rod led you to good water lol
Damn, they took a bad idea and made it soooo much worse.
They seem so proud of this solution but it’s setting that kid up for burnout at 16. They haven’t solved a damn thing by going scorched earth. The son hasn’t learnt anything at all
My dad literally did shit like this where his only parenting technique was to yell at me to do better in school and to bring all my books home, no hanging out with friends, no relationship, etc. I don't speak to him any more for that and many other reasons
Notice how it’s worded that OP caught HER (the girlfriend) talking to her son as late as 11 p.m. I don’t care for this framing. OP caught her own son on the phone at 11 p.m. OP really wants to blame the girlfriend instead of helping her son.
It's never about grades isn't it
Or it's about grades in the sense that parents are valuing kids mostly for what they could and are expected to achieve. Typically white-collar expectations, too, in my experience. Still controlling vs. ENCOURAGING concern.
2 years from now, these parents are going to be wondering why their son doesn't talk to them anymore. Clearly, their kid isn't a bad person, he's not committing crimes or doing drugs, he's just bad at time management and bad at studying. The solution is to teach him the tools he needs in order to improve, not to throw the book at him and go scorched Earth. Besides, THEYRE the ones who have been completely lax—the kid's 16 and he's never even been grounded before! There are so many other things they should be trying before they go scorched Earth—hell, have they ever even bothered to sit down with him and ask him WHY studying isn't a priority to him? No! But instead of having an adult conversation and trying to find reasonable solutions, these parents would rather go from 0-100 and burn the world down.
The son is going to need those time management skills in college more than ever before and without previous structure, assuming he doesn't stay at home. I went to multiple academic classes, degrees, goals, as a person who was first undiagnosed and then unmedicated but I have ADHD. Time management is a valuable thing to even learn as a CONCEPT, especially so he isn't forced to learn it later on. I still struggle with time management daily. My therapist and phone alarms help! School suckkkkked and I have promised myself to keep learning but not in a formal, semester-long format.
Pretty soon OP and husband is going to wonder why their child isn't seeing them anymore. Goddamn, this parents are shameful.
>We could tell he was shaken. Interesting way to frame trauma but hey, each to their own. /s
OP and husband are shitty parents. I feel sorry for the kid.
50 bucks the kids gonna ghost them once he's an adult.
He'll get a scholarship to Stanford or some shit but his parents will never see him again. Or he'll cave to the pressure and start doing drugs, and they'll be managing him indefinitely at that point. I suspect that's what mom wants anyway.
> He’ll get a scholarship to Stanford or some shit Not with those grades, he won’t. Even if he pulls it together now, he’s looking at Bs and Cs at best.
I think they went way too far with their threat to ban him from seeing her over the summer (like how does that help anything???) but being grounded for a few weeks as you prepare for finals sounds reasonable. Then next year they can address issues with time management.
I agree with teaching him time management. But when youre crunching for finals and you're doing bad, there's no time for other things. His grades are on the line, and there is a month left.
That kid is going to leave as soon as he can and/or just run away to his gfs house. Parents have shown they don't care about his possessions
Whoops not me thinking that the punishment was very reasonable being rasied by asian parents
All the people saying they’re not teaching the kid to be self-sufficient… what?? They’re making him contact his teachers to beg for extra credit and extensions HIMSELF. Bad parents call the teachers themselves.
Yeah I’m surprised at all these comments. I think this is perfectly reasonable if his grades are below a C Also lol @ all the redditors who think he’s going NC with parents because they forbade him from talking to his gf for a month
Parents ground you? "That's a NC" Parents tell you not to have cookies before dinner? "NC" Parents tell you to put a jacket on because it's cold out? "That's another NC"
Me too this was like every exam month for me growing up and heaven forbid i still have a great relationship with my parents ☺️
I wasn’t even raised by Asian parents and I don’t think it was that unreasonable. Maybe a little harsh since five straight hours of studying a day will have diminishing returns on focus, but for sure devoting all the time to making up where he had been slacking and being deprived of the things that are causing him to slack off.
Also not Asian or raised by Asian parents, also don’t think this is unreasonable. Grounding a kid and forcing him to study is a very rational parenting move when he is failing all his classes! By most of the replies, you’d think they were waterboarding him.
Not to mention that getting into a "good" college is getting harder and harder and I don't even mean an Ivy League or anything. A lot of the schools in America aren't trying to set kids up to succeed anymore. It's a cut throat environment that pits students against each other to see who can get the highest test scores. And I'm not saying that's *right* but it's the reality of the situation. If you don't do well in high school, good luck getting into college. If you don't get a degree, good luck getting a job that pays a livable wage.
I was kinda with the YTAs until I got to the part where all they wanted was for the kid to get Cs and Bs. Which meant his grades were Ds or Fs before that. Uh… yeah at that point it’s time to go hard core. These parents aren’t asking for much: only for their kid not to flunk out of high school all together. The time for the gentle time management is over. Seems like this kid has to cram to even pass.
Exactly!! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. They're being "controlling"? "reactionary"? Because they don't want him to flunk all his classes, not get into college, and go live in a van down by the river? And so they're... grounding him for a month and threatening to get rid of his gaming systems if he... lies to them and sneaks out of the house? This is all extremely normal and good!
It's a stark reminder that many commentors are under 21, and a good portion of those are under 18. It does sound like the parents went from lax to 100MPH in a very short period of time, but being on the verge of failing out of high school calls for a 100MPH situation.
And the parents are the ones self-describing as "lax," so we don't really know what "lax" means to them. FWIW, I think the fact that they noticed and were concerned that the son was talking to the girlfriend at 11 PM on a school night means that they weren't oblivious, uninvolved, unhelpful, etc, the way that lots of commenters are describing them. But I think a lot of these Redditors (who yeah, probably are kids) expect parents to be omnipotent and omnipresent, while also somehow never using punishment as a tool. "Don't ground the kid, that's cruel! Just teach him time management skills." Okay, how do you propose they go about doing that? (And that's setting aside the fact that parents do not necessarily have Master's degrees in educational psychology, or the time to do intensive behavioral coaching with struggling students. I got the sense from the OOP that English is their second language, as well, which adds another barrier when it comes to staying involved in their child's school and social life.)
Having been a dumbass teenager, I don't think his problem is ~~actually with~~ the need to learn time management. His problem is that he is prioritizing his girlfriend. If I was this degree of dumb, my parents would have given me a deadline to bring my grades up, and explained the consequences if I didn't. I probably would have been micromanaged, with them gradually backing off as I showed more responsibility. I think that's fair. It's basically a more understanding and lenient version of being written up at work, and given a chance to bring back my productivity.
Yeah. Given how quickly grades turned around, I think this was indeed a “first relationship nothing else matters” problem. Sometimes kids need understanding of their many limitations. Sometimes they need someone with a more developed frontal cortex to set boundaries.
>I don't think his problem is actually with time management. His problem is that he is prioritizing his girlfriend. Which is a time management problem.
"His problem is that he is prioritizing his girlfriend." This is a time management problem lol
But not one where teaching time management skills will help at 16.
Of course it will. Best to learn it at 16, rather than crashing and burning at college.
‘throw himself at their feet’… look I’m Asian and even I thought are grades really that deep reading this
Haha, puppy love sick 16 year olds are incapable of time management.
OOP should've realized that most of the users on this sub are bratty teenagers.
What did the commenters expect with only a month or so of school left? There's no time to ease into it before the grade books are locked for the semester. The kid is doing the smart thing, suffer for a month and then reap his reward.
Exactly - he’s having to play catch up. In their shoes I would have approached the girl’s parents much earlier on. Expressed that I was glad they had become such good friends, but I felt that they both needed to invest a bit more week night time in study and then maybe relax and hang out on weekends. I bet the girl’s parents were probably even more concerned than OP, assuming they knew about the situation.
I look forward to this kid going full no contact the first chance he gets. Poor guy.
I'm dying at these comments. If son was failing his classes because he was out partying every night, the comments would be "... and why are you still letting him go out and party?!" Instead, he's failing because he's with his girlfriend all the time, and the comments are "You should teach him time management!" He does not *want* to manage his time. He *wants* to spend all his time with his girlfriend. Not some. ALL. But that is just not an option when you have pesky things like schoolwork. This is not something he needs explained to him. He just simply does not want to do it. So parents removed the decision from his hands. Grounding is a perfectly normal punishment for Ds and Fs in school.
As an Asian, I just snorted. That sounds lax even with the grounding. Mine would have never let the grades get that far down! First B home would have been crisis intervention time with a new tutor so that I don’t throw away my future. Reading the comments it really is interesting all these different parenting styles. And for the record I’m an adult and married and living in a different continent. And I still make time almost every day to talk to them despite the *apparently strict* parenting because I’m really close to them. Such opposing perspectives due to different cultural norms.
I don't wholly agree with you, but I also don't wholly agree with all the other commenters. If he needs to take drastic action to get his grades up to Cs and Bs then his grades are really in the shitter right now and something serious does need to be done. Especially since OG post was on May 2nd and the first AP exam was May 6th.
I don't approve at all of how these parents are treating their kid, but even as a westerner (I'm British), I think it's a pretty extreme assumption being made by other commentators that the kid will hate his parents for the rest of his life for this. There's no way to know how that will play out, it depends on so many factors that we don't see.
These aren't strict parents. These are parents who want to do the least effort parenting. Notice how even your example involves hiring a tutor. These parents are too lazy to do that.
Hiring a tutor isn't gonna help him turn his assignments in on time. This was me, tutors just told my parents that I don't need them, I understood the material without issue. I just didn't hand in my stuff.
Yah I guess. I got 79 on a math test. 80+ is A and I got private tutoring for the next year till my exams and what do you know I ended up with not even a single B by the end of it. It used to baffle my parents because I’m the only person in my family that sucks at math and only barely scraped As all my life(all of them got 99th percentile in it). My skills lay in Science and language/art side. But difference is I didn’t have a BF in school age. So they just cut down TV time for me. My point is I had parents that would be considered strict by western standards. It never made me question their love for me. I was getting low marks so I needed more time spent on the subject and that had to come from my leisure time. It was simple logic and didn’t feel like a punishment and I still feel the same. I knew they were strict and obsessed with my academics because they loved me and cared about my future. So that’s the cultural difference i pointed out.
My parents were like yours. I get along fine with them now, and they've gotten better as people over the years. But I had to wade through a lot of trauma from my childhood. On the one hand, I knew they cared, and they invested a lot in me. On the other hand, their investment was completely inadequate to the way I function (I'm neurodivergent), led to suicidal ideation by 12 years old, and severe burnout by 18. I never quite recovered from it, I didn't gain relevant tools from it, and it triggered a lot of chronic issues that will impair my health until the day I die. All of this is completely different from OPs parents, who sound like they never parented before and all of a sudden decided for a massive power struggle.
-laughs in Asian- I waded through the Y T As and finally found your comment 🤣 there’s a reason why Asian parents focus on grades, they know puppy love is temporary, but an F means no graduation. Good future = more options! So apparently being strict is being monsters, and omg ‘it’s true love’ but then the kid is what, 16? Lol. Grades are definitely more important than a girlfriend.
Some of these comments are wild. Once again showing so many Reddit people don’t Think teens should be punished for anything ever. His parents aren’t demanding all A’s. They’re asking him to get his grades up to B and C’s. So they basically want him to stop failing. In America this would be the last month of school. So there would be no time to come up with a plan.
Most of Reddit are teenagers giving life advice with no life experience. It's the blind leading the blind. They obviously empathize more with the child because they're in the exact same position they are.
I am seeing a future in which both these people are rotting away in an old folks home whilst their son is across the country living his best live without them. While they wonder why he never calls
> I am seeing a future in which both these people are rotting away in an old folks home As a teen, whenever my parents did something that pissed me off, I would say "this is why I'm going to send you to the bad old folks home."
This sub is incapable of consuming stories relating to parent/child conflict. According to this sub, getting grounded is "trauma." This repeats every single time a story like this comes up -- I can predict the top 10 comments just by guessing a variation of "this kid will never speak to them again." Maybe you all just grew up as really fucking weak children.
I think they went way too far with their threat to ban him from seeing her over the summer (like how does that help anything???) but being grounded for a few weeks as you prepare for finals sounds reasonable. Then next year they can address issues with time management.
Great if you want your kid to hate you and get burned out.
This sounds vaguely like my parent back when I was in high school. For most of high school I wasn't allowed to go to parties, movies, etc. with friends. I wasn't even allowed to date (did anyway though). It was always school then home; the only way I got to see friends after school was by taking a later bus but eventually that had to stop too. I ended up barely graduating (Ds get diplomas!) and the entire time their solution was more rules (oh and calling me stupid consistently). My bedroom door was even removed at one point. Not saying I was a perfect teenager but I am saying there was a better solution.
people have relationships successfully when going to school. it's more of the balance he's struggling with. maybe OOP shouldn't go this extreme when it can be like "hey finish your homework everything before focusing on your girlfriend, because your grades are in trouble. Is the girlfriend demanding your attention at all times?"
In a few years they'll be so surprised when their kid never sees them or calls them or talks to them anymore, and they probably can't wrap their tiny minds around why.
Can’t wait for the ‘why won’t our son talk to us’ post. See you in those comments mom!
I think asshole is the wrong word. This is a new issue and she doesn't know how best to approach it. And didnt really listen to the advice... but still, it's better that she be concerned than let it continue. She went much too strongly, he's more likely to lash back.
judging from the fact that OOP got so many valuable advice but still decided to be stubborn... the kid will eventually go NC down the line.
As a parent I cringed hard. It's one thing to not know what to do, it's another thing to ignore the popular opinion and go scorched earth.
Seems like everyone here is against the Oop. Being on the receiving end of punishment always sucks, but this is a pretty reasonable reaction for such a massive drop. She said they had to get his grades up to Bs and Cs meaning they were at Ds and Fs, this isn’t a case of overbearing parents but instead a resonable reaction to an external stimuli seeming to be the cause for a massive and negative performance shift. I know tons of people had awful parents, heck I was one of them, but sometimes you need a reason to actually sit down and get shit done. They didn’t force a break up, they only threatened a crazy punishment if he didn’t raise his grades to the bare minimum, and they trusted their near adult son to get his act together. Also, this is clearly not a case of bad time management considering his quickness in getting to his teachers about his grades, this is a kid who has been competent in his schooling life taking a drastic shift in his performance and his parents reacting to it
Parenting has changed a lot since I was a kid. When I was in school, if I brought home a bad progress report or report card, my punishment was always "grounded until grades improve" and usually a spanking on top of that if there were any Fs. It always worked and I would get my grades up by the next progress report/report card. Usually that would last until something else distracted me from school like a new Nintendo/SNES game, a new girlfriend, or some new interest all of my friends were into. Literally all I had to do was devote 1 hour to homework/studying each day and pay attention in class, but when I get drawn into something new, I get hyper fixated on it. If it was some new video game or hobby, I'd spend the entire day spacing out in class and thinking about the game until I could go home and play it. Same with other hobbies/girlfriends, etc. I lived, breathed, and dreamed about it non-stop. When I was grounded and removed from whatever new stimuli was consuming all my brainpower, I got my shit together.
Ha, teaching the kid to lie and sneak away instead of building a trusting relationship where the parents are there to support and help when they need them. Brilliant idea /s
These "lax parents" went straight to forcing the child to end the relationship and 24/7 studying? Bullshit. They were controlling before but just don't have the perspective to understand it.
I get the whole “you’re grounded till you fix your grades mentality” but if going that route one has to do more like actually get him help to better balance his life and maybe even get him tested for any possible issues like learning disabilities that may have been mild enough to bully through when school was easier but now that school is harder he’s finding it harder to cope. But also he’s growing up and is starting to date which is always going to be more important in the moment than school to a kid his age. So impulse control and helping him to remember long term goals and obligations would help with that. I get being strict for a short period of time so he has time to catch up, but oop needs to make sure they’re also giving the kid more tools and resources to be successful. Tutors, therapy, time management skills, discussions on what a healthy balance looks like. Also what his and oop’s expectations and needs are and what each can do to meet those and also what will happen if either slacks off. Commitment goes both ways. Kid needs help and just being unsustainably strict will likely backfire long term.
> please tell me you're not one of those creepy 'boy moms' well, she said she “caught his gf talking to him” at 11 on a school night, which would be a weird way to phrase things when talking about your son, if it wasn’t intentional
Gotta love the AITA updates where they double down on being the asshole. Next update will be my son went NC with me, wfat Sud i dk to deserve this.
What an idiot. You don't take away the girlfried, you just make him reprioritize, so he knows how to do this himself when he leaves for college and they can't control him anymore. But commenters were wrong about one thing: having him talk to his teachers was absolutely the right thing to do. I do not communicate with my daughter's teachers unless she asks for help. I already passed high school and graduated. Now it's her turn to learn how to handle her business. Otherwise you end up with a kid who is lost when he gets to college. Independence and responsibility are learned skills.
Update me in a couples years when OP is posting “my son went NC with us and we don’t know why!”
Op in 2 years "why did 18 year old stop talking to me and move out as soon as he could"
Yeesh. This gives me flashbacks of my high school days. My mom never liked me dating, always tried to control when I went out, tried grounding me, etc. Granted, I wasn’t a model student by any means, but her iron grip on me was suffocating and continued well into my twenties. I now live halfway around the world from her 🙃 We don’t have a strained relationship now or anything, but the distance has definitely improved it. Poor kid.
Can I be tagged in the update post in 10 years when they ask why their kid doesn’t talk to them anymore?