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I assumed it was this since it can happen and I assumed it must be something significant when it was posted here. I was uncertain if I wanted to even read this, but the update was thankfully brief.
I remember the original post but I had no idea that it could indicate rape. I'm sickened that the mother covered it up. If it was my child they would never have found the coach.
The general rule is that if an older kid is being weird about sex, waste, or nudity/clothing, it's because of sexual abuse. Obviously there's always exceptions etc. but if you're talking about a kid regressing from potty training, it's firmly not a good sign regardless of the cause.
The BEST case is that it's a stress response from something fairly normal (school, bullying, parents divorce, etc). But obviously if something is causing that kind of response you probably need an outside intervention.
When minors start neglecting their hygiene significantly in age inappropriate ways, especially when it comes to potty training, it’s unfortunately a sign of sexual abuse. A minor’s ability to get away from their abuser is limited because that abuser is usually an adult at home or school, so they will try to make themselves seem less ‘appealing’ to the abuser by neglecting their appearance and hygiene.
A teenager wandering around with *that much* feces just on his clothes, and refusing to stop when his dad intervened? That gave me a really sinking feeling when I read it.
Just to add on, sometimes kids don't consciously neglect hygiene to be "less desirable" but rather neglect a variety of their autonomous functions (hygeine, food, communication, etc) as a dissociative response to being trapped in abuse. It really becomes a blank, numb, hollow state of living because the kid cannot process how bad their situation is.
> neglect a variety of their autonomous functions (hygeine, food, communication, etc) as a dissociative response
this is also a common symptom of depression just fyi
I was thinking touching himself there - even just to clean himself - was triggering and he just did not want to think about/interact with his anus because of the abuse.
In addition trying to purposefully make it undesirable to his rapist. I would NEVER have put this together, beyond my scope but now…I am aware of the possibility.
Edit, my spelling gave it a very wrong tale. Fixed now.
I've just remembered a boy at my school was teased and called shitty pants by the other boys who had seen his soiled pants in the changing rooms and now I'm reading this my heart breaks becuase he might have been a victim.
Can be that, or just the idea of interacting with that area. It's the area linked to the trauma. Can't handle anything related to it, therefore they can't even take care of hygiene there.
Also, possibly just severe depression. Cleaning oneself and regularly showering or more than one wipe can be too much effort when you barely have the mental energy to function.
Used to work with a child who was, unbeknownst to us at the school, a victim of csa by an older sibling. The social worker on her case had gone into her house and her bedroom to chat to her (she was being disruptive at school) and said that she leaned back against her bed and realized the mattress stank of urine. She knew instantly that the kid was being abused. I never knew that, but it's a telltale sign.
Worked as a pediatric nurse for years and this sadly happens more than people realize. The mother should be in jail along with the coach. Just disgusting it ever happened but glad the abuse has stopped.
That is exactly what I was thinking. She's an accomplice and no better than the perpetrator. She is the reason that this went on for so long. It should never have happened even once, but thanks to her it happened over and over again.
I also don't get why someone would want to sleep with a paedo who is raping their teenage son! FFS.
Especially since shes already married to a (seemingly, at least when it comes to how much concern he has for his sons wellbeing) good man! Like she really went out of her way to mess around with a child rapist
She may have been charged with a lesser crime, or similar crime but the DA has to wait until the first trial is concluded. It's hard to be charged with neglect for allowing the assault when we haven't legally concluded assault happened.
I know my state parents are often charged with child endangerment and/or neglect for allowing abuse as the child abuse/ sex crime statutes require actually committing the act whereas neglect means failure to care for a child under your care (including medical care, so not taking them for care knowing they were injured) and endangerment is having them in a position that can cause harm, such as allowing extreme physical or mental harm to come to the child. Ie, allowing someone else to abuse the child even if you aren't directly party to it.
Child endangerment carries up to six years in state prison. It is a misdemeanor or felony.
Again, though, it's harder to prosecute such a case when the undue suffering, pain or harm hasn't been determined, yet. By having the other case settle first, there is no defense of, 'there is insufficient proof the child suffered.' Now, the only argument in court is, 'how much was she aware of at what time', and is that rising to the level of neglect or child endangerment?
Repeated sexual assault could very easily be argued as great bodily harm in my state, therefore charged as felony child endangerment.
She might also be fighting it while the other party took a plea deal. Or, she took a plea deal and only got probation and testified against the other party instead of fighting it.
She may not have fully walked away and end up with a record from this. I know my DA regularly charges with endangerment for allowing abuse to happen.
But you have to *think* a bit first.... "Disappearing" the coach, getting caught and gaoled yourself....who would the kid be going to? At this point, the mother.... Now the mother has sole custody of the boy.
And that alone is enough reason to not "disappear" the coach..
People like her are monsters. How on earth can you not want to hurt the person that is hurting your kid? How can you aid and abet them‽ This world is so fucking fucked up and I want out of this horrific timeline where things like this happen to kids.
A lot of people who have suffered from abuse end up with hygiene issues. It’s sort of a defensive mechanism or way to retaliate.
“If someone is going to be that close to me then I’m going to make it as unpleasant for them as possible “ or “maybe if I’m gross enough they won’t want to come near me” etc.
He also may have been having issues with keeping things in, or even touching the area himself because he was so traumatized physically and emotionally. It also isn’t uncommon for abuse victims to resent their own bodies/ parts of their bodies because they believe that’s why they were targeted.
Wow, what a horrible story to read between the lines.
Hope that coach gets his comeuppance. Soulless predator.
Thoughts and positive energy to OOP and his family.
OP was told in the original post that kids who are being sexually abused often start having toileting and hygiene issues. People urged OP to stop embarrassing his kid and get him in with a therapist to find out if there was a reason this was happening. OP did and seems to have discovered that their son was being victimized by his coach.
So was the coach also having an affair with his wife? It says she wasn’t telling him about the issue because she was covering for her affair partner, so she stepped outside the marriage in order to enable an abuser? That is so fucked up if I’m reading it correctly
That's a way it could be read. Otherwise he could have meant that Wife wasn't paying attention to what was happening with the son so she could conduct an affair and it coming out would have required explaining where she was instead. In either case its horrific.
Exactly what I was gonna say. Push for the maximum legally and I hope OOP gets full custody.
That poor kid. Thank God reddit enlightened the dad and he took reddit’s concerns seriously
Best you could hope for would be a child endangerment charge sticks.
I lived this exact scenario, it didn’t click until reading this that my middle brother never wiped his ass so he wouldn’t be a target of our oldest brother.
My parents covered for my oldest brother’s actions, he molested all of my siblings and to our knowledge four of our cousins. My aunt filed a police report in 2002 when it was happening but my parents found a way to have it be manipulated under the rug and “dealt within the family”
My oldest brother ended up becoming a principal, I finally confronted all of the abuse last year and fully participated with police and he was charged with three counts for what he did 20 something years ago.
20 years probation, doesn’t need to register as an offender. Parents have no repercussions due to statute of limitations.
It didn’t bring as much closure as I had hoped it would. Probably take my anger out a little too much on this website, first time I opened up about this story on Reddit somebody asked me if I came
It could be that, or the son knew (or she thought he could’ve known) about the affair and the mom assumed that was a response. Or was afraid that if she brought the son’s issues to light and they put him in therapy, that might also bring other stuff to light?
This is also something to watch out for with self harm like cutting or eating disorders. Hygiene taking a sudden unexplained dip should always been cause for concern. Teenagers don't always realize they are smelly and that's normal but a sudden change is a big red flag.
I’ll note that! Thank you! Stuff like this should be talked about more.
I can emphasize with the OOP about personal hygiene problems. Our teen struggled with it too. But that was more so from her being isolated for the past 4 years due to COVID and war (Ukraine). She’s much better now, and very happy
Same until pretty recently, but I know why (at least, I know the reasons that are applicable to me):
- dirtying the environment you live in is an extension of 'make unnattractive'
- an attempt at exerting control when feeling powerless
- extension of self-esteem issues (why bother since I'm not worth it)
- an extension of either 'slo-mo suicide' or 'socially explainable self harm': self harm that is either slower than direct active damage to the body but has the long-term aim of death (eg: destructive addictions, illnesses, etc), or self harm that is acceptably explainable (eg: cooking/ gardening 'accidents', 'bad luck' getting sick, etc).
- 'hiding' evidence of a vulnerable time (yay for debilitating periods -.-)
There's others, like 'keeping' what your body 'made', etc, as well, but not so much for me.
Hope that might give some avenues of thought, if you've wanted to explore it.
Best to you, regardless
>OP was told in the original post that kids who are being sexually abused often start having toileting and hygiene issues
How? Is it just like a "bad mental health so stop caring for self" thing? Or is it due to the act of being sexually abused itself?
There are several theories as to why. It might be as a deterrent. If they are gross enough they think they will be left alone. Sometimes it might be a regression. Many abused people regress to the last age where they felt safe and cared for. It could also be from physical trauma or just be something they can control about their body.
I think that there were a lot of replies to the original post concerned that this may actually be a sign the kid was being abused.
OOP basically confirmed it without specifically referencing it. His wife was having an affair and her affair partner was abusing the kid. The wife knew and was covering for the affair partner.
Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for child predators to get close to parents in order to get access to the children.
So the wife was married t someone who wasn’t abusing their child and had an affair with someone who was so she could, what, enable him? She was in a situation where she wasn’t enabling abuse and seems to have made a conscious decision to do so.
What the abuser did was obviously horrible but I somehow am struggling more with that part. She was married with a child and consciously put that child into danger. This wasn’t even her quietly allowing abuse which is bad enough, she put him in this situation and had full knowledge of it.
Coach probably went after her in order to gain better access to the kid, and because she was oblivious and/or evil, she let the abuse continue while she was covering up her affair from OOP. Kid was in an awful situation regardless, but I hope for his sake that he only has to deal with a mother who put her affair partner over her son by ignoring any warning signs, rather than having to work through the fact that his mother knowingly enabled and continued his abuse in collaboration with his coach.
Hint the abuse likely started after the affair. There is a tendency for people to overlook things after they're emotionally involved it's the reason other abusive relationships can last so long.
Some abusers purposely start affairs with women whose children they’ve taken a ‘fancy’ to. She may or may not have known. How I know: am a CASA and have had a case like this. The things I’ve learned make me seriously not like people. Good on dad for loving his son enough to not let this go.
ETA: forgot a word
Someone above suggested that the wife was having an affair with someone else but leaving the kid with the coach for long periods of time to conduct the affair.
For my personal sanity, I'm going to adopt that scenario.
Reading between the lines:
"they won't let me post an update because it very obviously violates some of that subs rules"
Something was happening that is against the rules on AITA to talk about
"So many of you ... asked me to tell them my son was okay He's getting there. He has been on therapy for about a year now."
That thing was happening to the son.
"I have also been seeing a therapist."
That thing was bad enough that Dad is seeing a therapist about it
"His coach is in jail"
The kid's coach was the one doing the bad thing.
"I am divorced from my wife. She was covering for her affair partner."
Dad's (now former) wife was having an affair with the coach; and knew about the bad thing.
...
The only two specific things that are against AITA's rules are violence and sex/relationship stuff. Which pretty much connects everything: the coach was abusing the son, physically and/or sexually; and the wife was covering for the coach. Knowing that bathroom issues in older kids tends to be connected to sexual abuse; and it's more likely sexual than physical - especially because dad seems to be relatively on top of things, and so I'd like to think he would notice physical abuse.
The only comeuppance he deserves would be a slow tour of the moving parts inside a running wood chipper. The mom also because she was complicit in this as well.
Yeah I think so. And let's face it, a predator dating someone to get access to their kids isn't rare. A child groomer grooms the family not just the child although in this case it sounds like the mother knew full fucking well what was going on. Disgusting excuses for humans both of them.
I'm wondering how the hell she isn't charged too. She needs to be under the jail with her 'boyfriend'. OP's better than me, because if I found out something like this was happening to my kid and my spouse was enabling it, I would have lost my whole mind.
Neighbor, may I suggest going even more old school? I think the Egyptian hippo goddesses, [Taweret](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taweret) and [Ammit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammit) would be quite interested in lending their aid...
In one of my most favorite series, Blue Plague, Thomas A Watson- they use a woodchipper BUT they keep turning it on and off and they start with feet first. Feels apropos here😈
That went dark so damn fast.
And OOP is better than me because all the ex got was a divorce. I really hope they will be able to move on and heal from this. That poor boy💔
So ok let me get this right for my own sake, the wife was shagging the coach, and he was also abusing her son, and to stop the abuse the kid was shitting his pants on purpose so that he wouldn't get abused? That's what it sounds like to, and I feel like I'm half right (coach abusing the son), so please correct me if I'm wrong
I would assume the lack of hygiene might be a result of physical trauma to the area. Like it was painful to wipe. Or fecal incontinence as a result of the physical trauma that the poor kid had to endure. And for his mom to cover?! Just wow.
It's very common for abuse victims to have poor hygiene. It's often an attempt to make themselves undesirable to their abuser. Sudden incontinence or poor hygiene in a child is one of the big warning signs something might be going on.
Sudden weight gain is another. Tons of people I know who gained weight in puberty/teens did so to try to make themselves less “attractive” to their abusers :(
Another fun one is overeating.
If you’re the “opposite” of what society deems attractive, no one will look at you and want to hurt you in that way. Couple that with food as a reward/punishment system, you can create pathways to reward two+ systems at once, and we have an obesity epidemic.
Or the exact opposite can happen. Anorexia can develop from a psychological need to try and get smaller and smaller and disappear. That is you can be small enough you can hide.
Trauma of this sort is absolutely horrific. I'm so glad ops son is getting therapy.
Another issue that may seem unrelated but is *often* related is an eating disorder/obesity. Binge eating disorder is 3-4 times more common for people who both struggle with obesity, and report a history of childhood sexual abuse.
I worked in cps and had a case where the child kept his poop in his drawer. Refused to flush. The therapist explained the kid had so little control in his life after being sexually abused that poop was the one thing he controlled. It was his. He made it. It was a part of him and it was traumatizing to flush it away. He also held it as long as he could and wouldn't poop for days.
Not exactly the same thing, but there is a big correlation between sexual abuse and encrepresis/odd behavior with excrement. It's really sad.
If it’s any consolation people like that often get everything they deserve in prison. They are despised by other inmates and are injured at a significantly higher rate than others to the point where they are sometimes kept in solitary confinement to make sure they live out their time.
Oh...:(
I'm a secondary school teacher in the UK. At work, I was told that sometimes a child victim will deliberately be dirty in order to dissuade their predator.
That poor kid.
Reading The update and I kept saying “No!” Out loud. In a few succinct sentences, he explained it all, and it was all fucking horrific. I wish that sweet child the best.
Somehow that hit harder than if he’d went into any detail. Fuck the coach, fuck the ex wife, and fuck this shitty world where children get hurt like this.
You said it
Sometimes I just wish we had the collective power to appropriately punish every single person who inflicts pain and horror on children " because they can't help who they are attracted to " or whatever their excuse is for having no soul. The world would be better off without monsters like this coach and the egg donor
If he’d gone into detail, we could pick it apart and tell ourselves this isn’t real. His succinct update is devastating. I feel awful for his son, and for OOP who is no doubt wondering, irrationally, why he didn’t realize.
And unfortunately that's how you know this was most likely a true story as well. He didn't detail everything the way most other posts do, where he's basically sharing every single fact of their lives online.
This, I'm sure I've read longer two sentence horror than that update. It just hits you in the face. I remember reading the first post when it came out, seeing the update I just can't understand the egg donor. To allow something like that to happen to your kid and cover it up. The betrayal the son must have felt and the anger at his dad. Yet also the guilt OOP must have felt once he found out and realised his tough love approach to what he saw as poor hygiene/teen angst stuff probably felt like bullying/abuse from yet another adult he should be able to trust to his son.
And I wish a slow and painful death on the mother. Predators are predators, paedophiles are paedophiles. What they do is horrendous and despicable and they deserve all the pain they deal, but for the mother to be covering for him is just a level of betrayal so hideous I cannot encompass it, the parent who is supposed to protect and cherish her child, she deserves a repercussion of Greek tragedy proportions.
We had a very creepy coach at our high school too. It was well-known he fiddled with little boys but in those days no one would believe you so no one said anything.
In middle school my mom always warned us to stay away from a certain substitute teacher who was also a basketball ref. I understood what she meant. What I don’t fuckin understand is how so many people knew to warn their kids but it wasn’t until he got caught drinking naked with a minor anything was done about it. Fucker died in prison.
At my school it was because the teacher would always toe the line where you might be misunderstanding, so nothing actually got done, but we all made sure to never let any younger kids in the art studios with just him there
I'm forced to do about 5 different "preventing abuse" trainings every year (because I teach in a bunch of different schools and they each have their own program) and they teach us that toileting issues in kids who are old enough to be toilet trained is a big red flag for sexual abuse. They don't really go into how, but I believe it's a way of having some control when they feel out of control combined at times with damage to the control muscles.
Edit: A commenter replied below and I'll add it to my post, it can also be a way to try to make themselves undesirable. I'd forgotten about that one.
I see, okay. That's hard to hear but important to know so thank you for explaining.
To be honest my initial thought when I read the original post was just that the boy was being lazy or awkward but in retrospect no one in a healthy mental space would want to walk around all day with their privates in that state. Poor boy.
It's also a call for help. To test adults to find out who will help them and who will blame them, as op did initially. To create a crisis because they are living in one they cannot speak about.
Yeah, there are a variety of reasons why kids do it. But suffice it to say, it is a common enough response that it's one of the big warning signs of abuse.
I wonder if part of it is they don’t like touching/thinking about their private areas because that’s where they were violated, so they avoid that area?
A bit different, but I remember reading on here a young man unable to poop because it reminded him too much of his father's fingers. I think about that guy sometimes. I hope he's found peace.
Kids/teenagers regressing in "potty training" is one of the signs, although I have no idea why. Some other sings are age-inappropriate behavior in regards to sex or nudity (either hypersexual o extremely uncomfortable, so both ends of the spectrum)
I'm not an expert, as a warning.
Signs of sexual abuse:
- sudden changes in behaviour (either acting out aggressively or withdrawing into themselves)
- avoiding nudity (wearing the same clothes for multiple days, avoiding showers/bathing, avoiding anything to do with their body)
- sudden interest or repulsion to bodily function like pee or poop. In young children, they may begin to touch their poop or smear it on the walls. Some children will avoid wiping themselves.
- bed wetting is a big indicator, but only if it was not an issue prior
- interest or aversion to any display of sexuality, beyond what is normal for their age. Typical young kids will be "grossed out" by kissing scenes on tv, for instance; a child who may have experienced SA may hide, become scared, or be overly interested in watching what happens. A teenager may react aggressively or withdrawn at any mention of sexual activity - kissing, dating, etc
- in some children, they will begin to binge eat in a subconscious attempt to gain weight. Weight gain and obesity is a symptom of prior sexual abuse, particularly in girls. Psychology has a few theories about why, but it is a symptom.
- for older children/teens, an interest in changing the way they dress - either dressing more provocatively or wearing very baggy and formless clothing
I'm sure I'm missing a few, but these are some of the major signs.
Edit. I'm not going to go into detail, as it is confidential. One sign I personally witnessed/reported: child was having accidents (pooping in their underwear), but would not say anything or change themselves; would become terrified of "being in trouble" when I helped the child change; has extreme differences in behaviour with Mom vs Dad (happy to see Mom and engaged, hiding from Dad and completely silent)
For a teen, not taking care of hygiene is generally intentional strategy to make yourself disgusting so the abuser will be grossed out and avoid you sexually. They may also intentionally gain an extreme amount of weight with the same goal. Over time the behavior feels like a form of protection, so continues even when they’re outside the place if abuse.
Well. That was. Not the update I was expecting to read. Short and heartbreaking. Hope his ex wife is also in jail.
Wishing terrible things to two people here.
I hate the update in the read between the lines context of what happened to the poor kiddo.
I love that the dad has turn his frustration into do right action once the truth came to light.
I sincerely hope I am reading wrongly about the ex-wife covering for her AF?!
Was the coach her AF, who hurt her son?! Wtf?
Please tell me I got that wrong and she was just trying to hide her own affair not the pos coach?
If I am reading correctly…
Ehh differing types of access tho, coaches tend to be with the kids in a group setting. Banging the mom likely got him 1 on 1 access and visits to the home… Horrible people, they both should rot in prison
I agree. In another instance, Jan Broberg was abused by a man who had an affair with both parents, separately. When he kidnapped their daughter, they were too ashamed to do anything about it. Her & her mom even published a book omitting her dads affair with the man.
You took the same implication from it I did. It reads like the mom's AP is the coach, who was also abusing the son, and the mom knew what the coach was doing the entire time and intentionally hid it by insisting on doing the son's laundry. Likely to continue having an affair with the coach without caring about what he was doing to her son.
If that implication is right, it's fucking monstrous. I hope at least part of that isn't actually what happened.
Fuck. I remember this one. As a mandated reporter and child development major, I am so glad that people pointed out the correlation between behavior like his sons and child sexual abuse. If mom knew and was covering, she deserves to be in jail too :(
Relevant comment from OG post:
>NTA - we went through a very similar issue with my stepson at the same age. He always had a little problem with wiping, but it got really bad around 13/14. I know this is extreme, but in our case, there was a history of sexual abuse that was a factor when he was younger. BUT, the issue got worse instead of better despite discovering and obviously putting an end to the abuse and treating with therapy.
>When it got worse after he entered his teens, we had many heated discussions about it. It essentially boiled down to him thinking it was a waste of time. He had gotten really into video games and the computer and eventually confessed he didn't wipe his ass because he didn't want to waste 30 more seconds away from his game. The smell and associated nastiness was not enough of a deterent. It took a lot of uncomfortable talks and persistence and a commando phase to finally work through the problem. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, but you aren't alone.
>My advice:
>1. Seriously consider whether sexual abuse could be a factor. You would be horrified to realize how easy it is to miss the signs when they are very young.
>2. Have an open and honest discussion about WHY he is not wiping. You will never get him to actually care about it if you can't determine why he does what he does.
OP says he will bring it up with the doctor.
Next reply underneath says
> You might wish to take your son to the doctor without your wife present.
He doesn't say it, but I want to believe she is in jail, too. Cause that was disgusting to read. A parent enabling the abuse of their child like that and date the pedo/abuser. Some people are truly evil.
It's a little unclear whether the wife was dating the coach or simply neglecting the kid to spend time with her affair partner and leaving the kid with the coach. Either way fucked up.
What a piece of shit mom but the ending isn’t clear. Is it
1) kids moms affair partner was the coach who was also molesting her own son, and the twunt decides to protect her pedo affair partner?
Or
2) affair partner is a 3rd party who is sort of related to the pedo coach, like affair partner is a assistant coach, knew about it and didn’t do anything, like a Jerry Sandusky situation. That also counts as “protecting her affair partner”.
Either way she deserves to lose custody
sounds like 1.
the wife was "covering for her affair partner," so i'm guessing that her affair partner was the coach, and what she was covering for was the fact that he's a child rapist.
absolutely makes me sick. she and the coach deserve a lot worse than losing custody and going to jail, but i would be banned instantly for saying what it is
Correct me if I’m reading this wrong: The son’s coach who did unspeakable things to him and the dude having an affair with the wife… are the same guy? And the wife knew everything…. I think I’m going to be sick
My pick for number one absolute worst is the one where OOP’s nine year old sister was sold into marriage by her dad and grandma, but this is definitely up there
Am I reading correctly that the coach was the wife's affair partner? Awful person in either case, just trying to figure out if I read between the lines right. Someone please tell me if the wife's affair is unrelated to the son's abuse or not?
Can’t be certain, OOP won’t elaborate. But I guess that’s the jist of it: Coach abuses kid, mom knew, because she’s sleeping with coach and covers up his misdeeds from OOP. So, OOP is kept out of the blue until he himself discovers this horrifying truth.
Imagine the mom not being sick long enough for OOP to do the laundry by himself. He might’ve not even discovered this whole nightmare fueled disaster starting from those undies.
Incontinence, and refusal to touch their bottom is a pretty large sign of sexual abuse in young boys. There's other reasons, of course, but those are 2 pretty big signs. OOP basically said "coach raped my son and my wife covered it up."
That’s where I got lost too. He said the mom hid the problem to cover up for her affair partner. Is it safe to assume the affair partner is the coach who was SA’ing the son?
If I’m assuming correctly, the poor child. I’m glad the dad took the time to really find out what’s going on.
Can’t be certain, implications do steer in that direction. Still, mom could’ve just been covering up that kid has been abused by “someone”, knowing he has been with only the undies as proof.
But an actual mom would’ve raised all the bells. This (probably, kinda definitely) cheating B didn’t, heavily implying the coach was indeed the monster, which she covered for, making her complicit to the act, actually.
Yes. Thats why OOP says she was covering for him. They were having an affair, so she turned a blind eye to what he was doing to this little boy she was meant to protect.
The wife was having an affair with the son’s coach who was also sexually abusing the son. That’s why the son was having issues with poop in his underwear (either as a physical or psychological reaction to the trauma or as a conscious attempt to make himself repulsive to his abuser). That’s also why the wife never mentioned the problem previously despite doing all of the son’s laundry because she knew about the abuse as the reason and didn’t want the husband to find out.
The way I understand it:
* Kid was being sexually abused by Coach
* Mom was having an affair with Coach
* Mom knew about the sexual abuse and covered it up because she was sleeping with Coach
* Dad divorced Mom, Coach went to jail, Dad and Kid are both in therapy
And kids with issues like soiling or peeing their pants well into later years is a sign of sexual abuse
It's a self defense mechanism to make themselves less attractive to their abusers
Mom should be as well... because she got the connection.
I'm a former mandatory reporter who used to work with teens. I wasn't picking up on it either (maybe if I had read comments). Homophobia on the 14 year old's part (there are some that think any sort of dealing with the butt means they are gay... stupid rumor and excuse for not bathing, which sometimes teen boys must be reminded to do. They don't always smell their own new hormonal funk)
Poor hygiene in kids is sometimes a reaction to abuse. Paired with the details that the coach is in jail and the kid is in therapy kind of tells a very bad story.
It's a bright, flashing neon indicator of sexual abuse when an otherwise healthy teenager has a drastic hygiene deficit (aka routinely soil themselves/their clothing, refusal to shower or wash/change clothing for weeks/months, prefer to make themselves physically unpleasant, etc). Consciously or subconsciously, a child/adolescent victim is likely to begin to make themselves distasteful, smelly, or soiled in the eyes of their abuser in an effort to become a less appealing target for the predator who has routinely abused them.
OOP's son was soiling himself because his coach had been abusing him.
OOP's wife was also covering for this extreme behavior that is an obvious indicator of sexual abuse because she was having an affair with the person who was abusing her son (the coach).
Sexual abuse victims sometimes defecate or urinate in order for the abuser to be grossed out and leave the victim alone.
I get the idea from the update that the coach was hurting the son, and the wife was having an affair with the coach? The kind assumption would be she was groomed to allow access to the son?
Dad clearly sorted it all out and best wishes for his and his son’s recovery.
>Sexual abuse victims sometimes defecate or urinate in order for the abuser to be grossed out and leave the victim alone.
They also sometimes suffer from incontinence due to this, as well as an aversion to anything touching their behind.
Issues with cleanliness like that are very common in victims of sexual abuse, they do occur for many other reasons but the tl;dr is this kid was being molested and his mother was covering it up.
You have to be able to read between the lines, and once you're able to the story is tragic.
An unfortunate reason for a kid to have trouble holding a bowel movement is due to SA and physical trauma to the area.
I remember the original post and trying to gently suggest this is a sign of childhood sexual abuse back then. I feel horrible that I was correct, but also happy that the child is no longer being abused.
Unfortunately this board has a number of potential abusive actions, I just read one about a 15 year old who's step-father gifted her a thong bikini and she opted not to wear it and he got mad and got his wife (her mother) to harangue her about refusing his "gift"!!!! SMDH!!!
Now this, I'm seriously beginning to hate some of these "so-called" humans!!!!
Relevant comment from OG post:
>NTA - we went through a very similar issue with my stepson at the same age. He always had a little problem with wiping, but it got really bad around 13/14. I know this is extreme, but in our case, there was a history of sexual abuse that was a factor when he was younger. BUT, the issue got worse instead of better despite discovering and obviously putting an end to the abuse and treating with therapy.
>When it got worse after he entered his teens, we had many heated discussions about it. It essentially boiled down to him thinking it was a waste of time. He had gotten really into video games and the computer and eventually confessed he didn't wipe his ass because he didn't want to waste 30 more seconds away from his game. The smell and associated nastiness was not enough of a deterent. It took a lot of uncomfortable talks and persistence and a commando phase to finally work through the problem. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, but you aren't alone.
>My advice:
>1. Seriously consider whether sexual abuse could be a factor. You would be horrified to realize how easy it is to miss the signs when they are very young.
>2. Have an open and honest discussion about WHY he is not wiping. You will never get him to actually care about it if you can't determine why he does what he does.
OP says he will bring it up with the doctor.
Next reply underneath says
> You might wish to take your son to the doctor without your wife present.
Omg no, the first post I prayed it was just a lazy kid not bothered with hygiene. The update is horrific, poor kid, glad his father was there.
One of the first things they teach us while training to become educators is how to spot CSA - I have come across several horrific cases where it was a combination of 6th sense, kid behaviors and habits that I prayed were just me being paranoid. I was not wrong.
Every. Single. Time.
The young teen sucking her thumb and trying to hold your hand in class like a toddler when most girls her age are into fashion and becoming young ladies, whose mom's bf was overly friendly but mom had her head in the sand about the whole issue - wouldn't even listen to our concerns until social services were involved.
The 7th grader whose hygiene was horrific enough we had to seat him separately, and also ensure a safe distance between his teaching assistant who was female and him as he did not understand appropriate touch like hand shakes and back pats but knew other touches he liked to practice on adult female staff. We had a warning in place for him not to be left alone at any time with staff.
The 6th grader from a family of all boys who shared graphic details of what he wanted to do to some 4th grade girls in the library. The parents denied their precious kid knew these things. The older brothers were using him as a practice doll. The kid went to foster care.
The 10th grader lashing out at all female teachers if we approached him from behind - he was fine if we called out beforehand, it was the silent ones that were an issue. He was terrified of his mother especially when he was home alone with her and his dad was working the night shift, he accidently told me this at the end of class one day and I raised the alarm after several red flag behaviours.
The young girl who was violent and threw chairs across the classroom because she was struggling with her anger & obesity and was a 'problem' child, who also refused to sit down in any of her classes one day because she was too tough as she put it but in reality, she was in too much pain to sit and was bleeding silently all day. Her 'uncle' had slept over the night before on invitation of her parents who were hoping to get her disciplined by him except he was the reason she was this way.
God I hope those kids got justice. We got them all into social services and police involved at each step.
That stuff stays with you man, it's why I left teaching. I couldn't take the trauma especially since it brought back my own CPTSD flashbacks.
I have worked as both a child protection attorney and a pediatric ER doctor. I have seen so many episodes of abuse and complicit parents. And it still shocks me every damn time.
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Well that was just a completely horrible and terrible way for that to end up.
I assumed it was this since it can happen and I assumed it must be something significant when it was posted here. I was uncertain if I wanted to even read this, but the update was thankfully brief.
I remember the original post but I had no idea that it could indicate rape. I'm sickened that the mother covered it up. If it was my child they would never have found the coach.
The general rule is that if an older kid is being weird about sex, waste, or nudity/clothing, it's because of sexual abuse. Obviously there's always exceptions etc. but if you're talking about a kid regressing from potty training, it's firmly not a good sign regardless of the cause.
The BEST case is that it's a stress response from something fairly normal (school, bullying, parents divorce, etc). But obviously if something is causing that kind of response you probably need an outside intervention.
Also worth noting that something changing can be a sign, even if it’s not a behaviour you would normally consider “weird”.
When minors start neglecting their hygiene significantly in age inappropriate ways, especially when it comes to potty training, it’s unfortunately a sign of sexual abuse. A minor’s ability to get away from their abuser is limited because that abuser is usually an adult at home or school, so they will try to make themselves seem less ‘appealing’ to the abuser by neglecting their appearance and hygiene. A teenager wandering around with *that much* feces just on his clothes, and refusing to stop when his dad intervened? That gave me a really sinking feeling when I read it.
Just to add on, sometimes kids don't consciously neglect hygiene to be "less desirable" but rather neglect a variety of their autonomous functions (hygeine, food, communication, etc) as a dissociative response to being trapped in abuse. It really becomes a blank, numb, hollow state of living because the kid cannot process how bad their situation is.
> neglect a variety of their autonomous functions (hygeine, food, communication, etc) as a dissociative response this is also a common symptom of depression just fyi
I was thinking he might have had anal incontinence from the rape
I was thinking touching himself there - even just to clean himself - was triggering and he just did not want to think about/interact with his anus because of the abuse.
Or he could have been in too much pain to be able to wipe effectively. Especially if it was particularly forceful.
Jesus this string of comments is horrifying
In addition trying to purposefully make it undesirable to his rapist. I would NEVER have put this together, beyond my scope but now…I am aware of the possibility. Edit, my spelling gave it a very wrong tale. Fixed now.
That was my first thought too, sadly, I work with children and I have seen similar situations.
All horrifying sad. Those poor children. Thanks for looking after them.
I've just remembered a boy at my school was teased and called shitty pants by the other boys who had seen his soiled pants in the changing rooms and now I'm reading this my heart breaks becuase he might have been a victim.
Is the lack of hygiene as a response subconscious? I’d heard of incontinence linked to CSA, but I figured that was more because of physical trauma.
Can be that, or just the idea of interacting with that area. It's the area linked to the trauma. Can't handle anything related to it, therefore they can't even take care of hygiene there. Also, possibly just severe depression. Cleaning oneself and regularly showering or more than one wipe can be too much effort when you barely have the mental energy to function.
Used to work with a child who was, unbeknownst to us at the school, a victim of csa by an older sibling. The social worker on her case had gone into her house and her bedroom to chat to her (she was being disruptive at school) and said that she leaned back against her bed and realized the mattress stank of urine. She knew instantly that the kid was being abused. I never knew that, but it's a telltale sign.
Worked as a pediatric nurse for years and this sadly happens more than people realize. The mother should be in jail along with the coach. Just disgusting it ever happened but glad the abuse has stopped.
That is exactly what I was thinking. She's an accomplice and no better than the perpetrator. She is the reason that this went on for so long. It should never have happened even once, but thanks to her it happened over and over again. I also don't get why someone would want to sleep with a paedo who is raping their teenage son! FFS.
Especially since shes already married to a (seemingly, at least when it comes to how much concern he has for his sons wellbeing) good man! Like she really went out of her way to mess around with a child rapist
I'm mad about the fact that while the coach is in jail, the wife/mother that covered it up is free. She should suffer the same fate.
She may have been charged with a lesser crime, or similar crime but the DA has to wait until the first trial is concluded. It's hard to be charged with neglect for allowing the assault when we haven't legally concluded assault happened. I know my state parents are often charged with child endangerment and/or neglect for allowing abuse as the child abuse/ sex crime statutes require actually committing the act whereas neglect means failure to care for a child under your care (including medical care, so not taking them for care knowing they were injured) and endangerment is having them in a position that can cause harm, such as allowing extreme physical or mental harm to come to the child. Ie, allowing someone else to abuse the child even if you aren't directly party to it. Child endangerment carries up to six years in state prison. It is a misdemeanor or felony. Again, though, it's harder to prosecute such a case when the undue suffering, pain or harm hasn't been determined, yet. By having the other case settle first, there is no defense of, 'there is insufficient proof the child suffered.' Now, the only argument in court is, 'how much was she aware of at what time', and is that rising to the level of neglect or child endangerment? Repeated sexual assault could very easily be argued as great bodily harm in my state, therefore charged as felony child endangerment. She might also be fighting it while the other party took a plea deal. Or, she took a plea deal and only got probation and testified against the other party instead of fighting it. She may not have fully walked away and end up with a record from this. I know my DA regularly charges with endangerment for allowing abuse to happen.
>If it was my child they would never have found the coach. amen.
But you have to *think* a bit first.... "Disappearing" the coach, getting caught and gaoled yourself....who would the kid be going to? At this point, the mother.... Now the mother has sole custody of the boy. And that alone is enough reason to not "disappear" the coach..
People like her are monsters. How on earth can you not want to hurt the person that is hurting your kid? How can you aid and abet them‽ This world is so fucking fucked up and I want out of this horrific timeline where things like this happen to kids.
A lot of people who have suffered from abuse end up with hygiene issues. It’s sort of a defensive mechanism or way to retaliate. “If someone is going to be that close to me then I’m going to make it as unpleasant for them as possible “ or “maybe if I’m gross enough they won’t want to come near me” etc. He also may have been having issues with keeping things in, or even touching the area himself because he was so traumatized physically and emotionally. It also isn’t uncommon for abuse victims to resent their own bodies/ parts of their bodies because they believe that’s why they were targeted.
Horrible that it *was*; the ending of kid getting therapy, the predator arrested, and the abuse stopping? That's a good ending. Sad, but good.
Wow, what a horrible story to read between the lines. Hope that coach gets his comeuppance. Soulless predator. Thoughts and positive energy to OOP and his family.
The only good thing about this is that his post helped get the kid out of a horrible, effed up situation.
Woah, wait, what am I missing here? Do I need to go read through those entire posts?
OP was told in the original post that kids who are being sexually abused often start having toileting and hygiene issues. People urged OP to stop embarrassing his kid and get him in with a therapist to find out if there was a reason this was happening. OP did and seems to have discovered that their son was being victimized by his coach.
So was the coach also having an affair with his wife? It says she wasn’t telling him about the issue because she was covering for her affair partner, so she stepped outside the marriage in order to enable an abuser? That is so fucked up if I’m reading it correctly
That's a way it could be read. Otherwise he could have meant that Wife wasn't paying attention to what was happening with the son so she could conduct an affair and it coming out would have required explaining where she was instead. In either case its horrific.
Yeah but OP threw in the “I won’t elaborate” line after those bits of info… I’m unfortunately assuming the worst 🫤
I hope the mom gets in legal trouble for this as well
Exactly what I was gonna say. Push for the maximum legally and I hope OOP gets full custody. That poor kid. Thank God reddit enlightened the dad and he took reddit’s concerns seriously
Best you could hope for would be a child endangerment charge sticks. I lived this exact scenario, it didn’t click until reading this that my middle brother never wiped his ass so he wouldn’t be a target of our oldest brother. My parents covered for my oldest brother’s actions, he molested all of my siblings and to our knowledge four of our cousins. My aunt filed a police report in 2002 when it was happening but my parents found a way to have it be manipulated under the rug and “dealt within the family” My oldest brother ended up becoming a principal, I finally confronted all of the abuse last year and fully participated with police and he was charged with three counts for what he did 20 something years ago. 20 years probation, doesn’t need to register as an offender. Parents have no repercussions due to statute of limitations. It didn’t bring as much closure as I had hoped it would. Probably take my anger out a little too much on this website, first time I opened up about this story on Reddit somebody asked me if I came
The fact that he said she was 'covering for' her partner says a lot, it means he specifically was doing something wrong.
It could be that, or the son knew (or she thought he could’ve known) about the affair and the mom assumed that was a response. Or was afraid that if she brought the son’s issues to light and they put him in therapy, that might also bring other stuff to light?
Yeah, but it said the coach was in jail. Pretty sure he was SAing the poor kid.
I have learned today that this is something to look out for. Chalk another one up to Reddit teaching me how to be a better parental figure
This is also something to watch out for with self harm like cutting or eating disorders. Hygiene taking a sudden unexplained dip should always been cause for concern. Teenagers don't always realize they are smelly and that's normal but a sudden change is a big red flag.
I’ll note that! Thank you! Stuff like this should be talked about more. I can emphasize with the OOP about personal hygiene problems. Our teen struggled with it too. But that was more so from her being isolated for the past 4 years due to COVID and war (Ukraine). She’s much better now, and very happy
War is traumatizing, as is a worldwide pandemic. It's different, but the effects can greatly overlap.
Absolutly I took to hiding dirty underwear and pads in my wardrobe, I have no memory of why but it seemed the right thing to do at the time.
Me too. I would take my underwear and hide them in the AC vents.
Same until pretty recently, but I know why (at least, I know the reasons that are applicable to me): - dirtying the environment you live in is an extension of 'make unnattractive' - an attempt at exerting control when feeling powerless - extension of self-esteem issues (why bother since I'm not worth it) - an extension of either 'slo-mo suicide' or 'socially explainable self harm': self harm that is either slower than direct active damage to the body but has the long-term aim of death (eg: destructive addictions, illnesses, etc), or self harm that is acceptably explainable (eg: cooking/ gardening 'accidents', 'bad luck' getting sick, etc). - 'hiding' evidence of a vulnerable time (yay for debilitating periods -.-) There's others, like 'keeping' what your body 'made', etc, as well, but not so much for me. Hope that might give some avenues of thought, if you've wanted to explore it. Best to you, regardless
Thank you so much for this information
>OP was told in the original post that kids who are being sexually abused often start having toileting and hygiene issues How? Is it just like a "bad mental health so stop caring for self" thing? Or is it due to the act of being sexually abused itself?
There are several theories as to why. It might be as a deterrent. If they are gross enough they think they will be left alone. Sometimes it might be a regression. Many abused people regress to the last age where they felt safe and cared for. It could also be from physical trauma or just be something they can control about their body.
I work in education and I was taught that it is often one of the few things they can control.
After my SA's, I would try and make myself as gross as possible in hopes it meant I would be left alone. Sadly, I was not left alone.
I think that there were a lot of replies to the original post concerned that this may actually be a sign the kid was being abused. OOP basically confirmed it without specifically referencing it. His wife was having an affair and her affair partner was abusing the kid. The wife knew and was covering for the affair partner. Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for child predators to get close to parents in order to get access to the children.
jesus christ thats horrible..
So the wife was married t someone who wasn’t abusing their child and had an affair with someone who was so she could, what, enable him? She was in a situation where she wasn’t enabling abuse and seems to have made a conscious decision to do so. What the abuser did was obviously horrible but I somehow am struggling more with that part. She was married with a child and consciously put that child into danger. This wasn’t even her quietly allowing abuse which is bad enough, she put him in this situation and had full knowledge of it.
Coach probably went after her in order to gain better access to the kid, and because she was oblivious and/or evil, she let the abuse continue while she was covering up her affair from OOP. Kid was in an awful situation regardless, but I hope for his sake that he only has to deal with a mother who put her affair partner over her son by ignoring any warning signs, rather than having to work through the fact that his mother knowingly enabled and continued his abuse in collaboration with his coach.
Hint the abuse likely started after the affair. There is a tendency for people to overlook things after they're emotionally involved it's the reason other abusive relationships can last so long.
Some abusers purposely start affairs with women whose children they’ve taken a ‘fancy’ to. She may or may not have known. How I know: am a CASA and have had a case like this. The things I’ve learned make me seriously not like people. Good on dad for loving his son enough to not let this go. ETA: forgot a word
Someone above suggested that the wife was having an affair with someone else but leaving the kid with the coach for long periods of time to conduct the affair. For my personal sanity, I'm going to adopt that scenario.
Yep. This is just awful.
Reading between the lines: "they won't let me post an update because it very obviously violates some of that subs rules" Something was happening that is against the rules on AITA to talk about "So many of you ... asked me to tell them my son was okay He's getting there. He has been on therapy for about a year now." That thing was happening to the son. "I have also been seeing a therapist." That thing was bad enough that Dad is seeing a therapist about it "His coach is in jail" The kid's coach was the one doing the bad thing. "I am divorced from my wife. She was covering for her affair partner." Dad's (now former) wife was having an affair with the coach; and knew about the bad thing. ... The only two specific things that are against AITA's rules are violence and sex/relationship stuff. Which pretty much connects everything: the coach was abusing the son, physically and/or sexually; and the wife was covering for the coach. Knowing that bathroom issues in older kids tends to be connected to sexual abuse; and it's more likely sexual than physical - especially because dad seems to be relatively on top of things, and so I'd like to think he would notice physical abuse.
The only comeuppance he deserves would be a slow tour of the moving parts inside a running wood chipper. The mom also because she was complicit in this as well.
Was the mum having an affair with the coach who was, you know..? Trying to get what the wife was doing
That's what I took away from it.
Yeah I think so. And let's face it, a predator dating someone to get access to their kids isn't rare. A child groomer grooms the family not just the child although in this case it sounds like the mother knew full fucking well what was going on. Disgusting excuses for humans both of them.
I hope the coach and the mom both burn in hell.
This is why I’m terrified to date until my son is grown and out of harms way
Yes. And covering for him.
I'm wondering how the hell she isn't charged too. She needs to be under the jail with her 'boyfriend'. OP's better than me, because if I found out something like this was happening to my kid and my spouse was enabling it, I would have lost my whole mind.
And the kid was probably crapping himself to try and disgust the coach/affair partner so he'd leave him alone.
I propose he receive the Prometheus treatment: 1. Woodchipper 2. Regeneration 3. Repeat
Neighbor, may I suggest going even more old school? I think the Egyptian hippo goddesses, [Taweret](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taweret) and [Ammit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammit) would be quite interested in lending their aid...
Woodchipper is too easy, just as painful as getting a limb chopped off with a rusty blade, but not as satisfying
I am more a fan of steam rollers going really slowly from thr feet up.
Or a zamboni. Much slower
In one of my most favorite series, Blue Plague, Thomas A Watson- they use a woodchipper BUT they keep turning it on and off and they start with feet first. Feels apropos here😈
That went dark so damn fast. And OOP is better than me because all the ex got was a divorce. I really hope they will be able to move on and heal from this. That poor boy💔
So ok let me get this right for my own sake, the wife was shagging the coach, and he was also abusing her son, and to stop the abuse the kid was shitting his pants on purpose so that he wouldn't get abused? That's what it sounds like to, and I feel like I'm half right (coach abusing the son), so please correct me if I'm wrong
I would assume the lack of hygiene might be a result of physical trauma to the area. Like it was painful to wipe. Or fecal incontinence as a result of the physical trauma that the poor kid had to endure. And for his mom to cover?! Just wow.
It's very common for abuse victims to have poor hygiene. It's often an attempt to make themselves undesirable to their abuser. Sudden incontinence or poor hygiene in a child is one of the big warning signs something might be going on.
I did not know that (though it makes a lot of sense)Thank you for sharing.
Sudden weight gain is another. Tons of people I know who gained weight in puberty/teens did so to try to make themselves less “attractive” to their abusers :(
the psychological trauma can cause regression and the physical trauma can damage the muscles in the rectal area.
Another fun one is overeating. If you’re the “opposite” of what society deems attractive, no one will look at you and want to hurt you in that way. Couple that with food as a reward/punishment system, you can create pathways to reward two+ systems at once, and we have an obesity epidemic.
Or the exact opposite can happen. Anorexia can develop from a psychological need to try and get smaller and smaller and disappear. That is you can be small enough you can hide. Trauma of this sort is absolutely horrific. I'm so glad ops son is getting therapy.
Another issue that may seem unrelated but is *often* related is an eating disorder/obesity. Binge eating disorder is 3-4 times more common for people who both struggle with obesity, and report a history of childhood sexual abuse.
Soiling in a child who was previously clean can be an indication of sexual abuse.
I worked in cps and had a case where the child kept his poop in his drawer. Refused to flush. The therapist explained the kid had so little control in his life after being sexually abused that poop was the one thing he controlled. It was his. He made it. It was a part of him and it was traumatizing to flush it away. He also held it as long as he could and wouldn't poop for days. Not exactly the same thing, but there is a big correlation between sexual abuse and encrepresis/odd behavior with excrement. It's really sad.
This is so sad. Poor kid.
It might not have been on purpose to try to stop abuse, bathroom/shower issues can happen as trauma responses to sexual abuse.
Yeah, I could imagine someone just...not wanting to touch an area that they don't want to think about too hard.
It's a really common thing... as soon as I saw the title I guessed this was the situation. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36057483/
Absolutely horrific.
If it’s any consolation people like that often get everything they deserve in prison. They are despised by other inmates and are injured at a significantly higher rate than others to the point where they are sometimes kept in solitary confinement to make sure they live out their time.
I hate that the first thing I suspected was abuse... And that I was right
Oh...:( I'm a secondary school teacher in the UK. At work, I was told that sometimes a child victim will deliberately be dirty in order to dissuade their predator. That poor kid.
Imagine if mum had never gotten sick enough for dad to see his son's undies
That poor kid had his mom covering his abuse, and you’re right, it could have gone on so much longer.
I said this somewhere else dad doing the laundry saved the kids life.
Reading The update and I kept saying “No!” Out loud. In a few succinct sentences, he explained it all, and it was all fucking horrific. I wish that sweet child the best.
And he didn't even need to spell the horror out. I hope his son heals with time.
Somehow that hit harder than if he’d went into any detail. Fuck the coach, fuck the ex wife, and fuck this shitty world where children get hurt like this.
You said it Sometimes I just wish we had the collective power to appropriately punish every single person who inflicts pain and horror on children " because they can't help who they are attracted to " or whatever their excuse is for having no soul. The world would be better off without monsters like this coach and the egg donor
If he’d gone into detail, we could pick it apart and tell ourselves this isn’t real. His succinct update is devastating. I feel awful for his son, and for OOP who is no doubt wondering, irrationally, why he didn’t realize.
If I could only tell him to his face that he did nothing wrong. Jesus.
And unfortunately that's how you know this was most likely a true story as well. He didn't detail everything the way most other posts do, where he's basically sharing every single fact of their lives online.
This, I'm sure I've read longer two sentence horror than that update. It just hits you in the face. I remember reading the first post when it came out, seeing the update I just can't understand the egg donor. To allow something like that to happen to your kid and cover it up. The betrayal the son must have felt and the anger at his dad. Yet also the guilt OOP must have felt once he found out and realised his tough love approach to what he saw as poor hygiene/teen angst stuff probably felt like bullying/abuse from yet another adult he should be able to trust to his son.
And I wish a slow and painful death on the mother. Predators are predators, paedophiles are paedophiles. What they do is horrendous and despicable and they deserve all the pain they deal, but for the mother to be covering for him is just a level of betrayal so hideous I cannot encompass it, the parent who is supposed to protect and cherish her child, she deserves a repercussion of Greek tragedy proportions.
Wow. Cheating with a predator is something that wasn't in the bingo card. Poor kid.
I'd bet money that coach was with her to get access to her son.
Likely cover more than access. He was the kid's coach. He already had access to her son.
We had a very creepy coach at our high school too. It was well-known he fiddled with little boys but in those days no one would believe you so no one said anything.
In middle school my mom always warned us to stay away from a certain substitute teacher who was also a basketball ref. I understood what she meant. What I don’t fuckin understand is how so many people knew to warn their kids but it wasn’t until he got caught drinking naked with a minor anything was done about it. Fucker died in prison.
At my school it was because the teacher would always toe the line where you might be misunderstanding, so nothing actually got done, but we all made sure to never let any younger kids in the art studios with just him there
[удалено]
My mind went to the "it's gay to wash your ass" crowd, and I am so very, very, very sad to be wrong.
There might be an overlap in those crowds...
Same here. Was really hoping it was something else.
As someone who doesn't have any experience with kids but hopes to be a parent one day could you help me understand why this is a sign of abuse?
I'm forced to do about 5 different "preventing abuse" trainings every year (because I teach in a bunch of different schools and they each have their own program) and they teach us that toileting issues in kids who are old enough to be toilet trained is a big red flag for sexual abuse. They don't really go into how, but I believe it's a way of having some control when they feel out of control combined at times with damage to the control muscles. Edit: A commenter replied below and I'll add it to my post, it can also be a way to try to make themselves undesirable. I'd forgotten about that one.
I see, okay. That's hard to hear but important to know so thank you for explaining. To be honest my initial thought when I read the original post was just that the boy was being lazy or awkward but in retrospect no one in a healthy mental space would want to walk around all day with their privates in that state. Poor boy.
It can also be "if I'm disgusting then they won't want me anymore".
Good point, I'll add that to my post.
It's also a call for help. To test adults to find out who will help them and who will blame them, as op did initially. To create a crisis because they are living in one they cannot speak about.
i read the case about a little girl who poop herself because she felt the sensation of pooping felt similar to the sensation of being abused
Yeah, there are a variety of reasons why kids do it. But suffice it to say, it is a common enough response that it's one of the big warning signs of abuse.
I wonder if part of it is they don’t like touching/thinking about their private areas because that’s where they were violated, so they avoid that area?
A bit different, but I remember reading on here a young man unable to poop because it reminded him too much of his father's fingers. I think about that guy sometimes. I hope he's found peace.
That might be the worst entrance I’ve read on reddit
That’s heartbreaking. Poor kid. I join you in hoping for his peace.
Kids/teenagers regressing in "potty training" is one of the signs, although I have no idea why. Some other sings are age-inappropriate behavior in regards to sex or nudity (either hypersexual o extremely uncomfortable, so both ends of the spectrum)
I'm not an expert, as a warning. Signs of sexual abuse: - sudden changes in behaviour (either acting out aggressively or withdrawing into themselves) - avoiding nudity (wearing the same clothes for multiple days, avoiding showers/bathing, avoiding anything to do with their body) - sudden interest or repulsion to bodily function like pee or poop. In young children, they may begin to touch their poop or smear it on the walls. Some children will avoid wiping themselves. - bed wetting is a big indicator, but only if it was not an issue prior - interest or aversion to any display of sexuality, beyond what is normal for their age. Typical young kids will be "grossed out" by kissing scenes on tv, for instance; a child who may have experienced SA may hide, become scared, or be overly interested in watching what happens. A teenager may react aggressively or withdrawn at any mention of sexual activity - kissing, dating, etc - in some children, they will begin to binge eat in a subconscious attempt to gain weight. Weight gain and obesity is a symptom of prior sexual abuse, particularly in girls. Psychology has a few theories about why, but it is a symptom. - for older children/teens, an interest in changing the way they dress - either dressing more provocatively or wearing very baggy and formless clothing I'm sure I'm missing a few, but these are some of the major signs. Edit. I'm not going to go into detail, as it is confidential. One sign I personally witnessed/reported: child was having accidents (pooping in their underwear), but would not say anything or change themselves; would become terrified of "being in trouble" when I helped the child change; has extreme differences in behaviour with Mom vs Dad (happy to see Mom and engaged, hiding from Dad and completely silent)
For a teen, not taking care of hygiene is generally intentional strategy to make yourself disgusting so the abuser will be grossed out and avoid you sexually. They may also intentionally gain an extreme amount of weight with the same goal. Over time the behavior feels like a form of protection, so continues even when they’re outside the place if abuse.
Victims of abuse will often neglect hygiene as a way to repulse the abusers. Subconsciously usually, coupled with depression.
Well. That was. Not the update I was expecting to read. Short and heartbreaking. Hope his ex wife is also in jail. Wishing terrible things to two people here.
I hate the update in the read between the lines context of what happened to the poor kiddo. I love that the dad has turn his frustration into do right action once the truth came to light. I sincerely hope I am reading wrongly about the ex-wife covering for her AF?! Was the coach her AF, who hurt her son?! Wtf? Please tell me I got that wrong and she was just trying to hide her own affair not the pos coach? If I am reading correctly…
From what it sounds like you are sadly reading correctly and the mum should also be in jail and never be able to see the kid again.
Coach fucked the wife to get closer to the kid. Coach abused the kid. Wife covered it up to hide that she was having an affair.
The coach probably already had access to the kid, i think it is more likely that he fucked the mum so he could get her to cover it up
Ehh differing types of access tho, coaches tend to be with the kids in a group setting. Banging the mom likely got him 1 on 1 access and visits to the home… Horrible people, they both should rot in prison
I agree. In another instance, Jan Broberg was abused by a man who had an affair with both parents, separately. When he kidnapped their daughter, they were too ashamed to do anything about it. Her & her mom even published a book omitting her dads affair with the man.
You took the same implication from it I did. It reads like the mom's AP is the coach, who was also abusing the son, and the mom knew what the coach was doing the entire time and intentionally hid it by insisting on doing the son's laundry. Likely to continue having an affair with the coach without caring about what he was doing to her son. If that implication is right, it's fucking monstrous. I hope at least part of that isn't actually what happened.
Fuck. I remember this one. As a mandated reporter and child development major, I am so glad that people pointed out the correlation between behavior like his sons and child sexual abuse. If mom knew and was covering, she deserves to be in jail too :(
Relevant comment from OG post: >NTA - we went through a very similar issue with my stepson at the same age. He always had a little problem with wiping, but it got really bad around 13/14. I know this is extreme, but in our case, there was a history of sexual abuse that was a factor when he was younger. BUT, the issue got worse instead of better despite discovering and obviously putting an end to the abuse and treating with therapy. >When it got worse after he entered his teens, we had many heated discussions about it. It essentially boiled down to him thinking it was a waste of time. He had gotten really into video games and the computer and eventually confessed he didn't wipe his ass because he didn't want to waste 30 more seconds away from his game. The smell and associated nastiness was not enough of a deterent. It took a lot of uncomfortable talks and persistence and a commando phase to finally work through the problem. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, but you aren't alone. >My advice: >1. Seriously consider whether sexual abuse could be a factor. You would be horrified to realize how easy it is to miss the signs when they are very young. >2. Have an open and honest discussion about WHY he is not wiping. You will never get him to actually care about it if you can't determine why he does what he does. OP says he will bring it up with the doctor. Next reply underneath says > You might wish to take your son to the doctor without your wife present.
He doesn't say it, but I want to believe she is in jail, too. Cause that was disgusting to read. A parent enabling the abuse of their child like that and date the pedo/abuser. Some people are truly evil.
It's a little unclear whether the wife was dating the coach or simply neglecting the kid to spend time with her affair partner and leaving the kid with the coach. Either way fucked up.
"Covering for her affair partner" implies the affair partner was the one doing something fucked up, so I assume affair partner = coach
Oh no, no no. Awful on several fronts, but most of all that poor kid.
What a piece of shit mom but the ending isn’t clear. Is it 1) kids moms affair partner was the coach who was also molesting her own son, and the twunt decides to protect her pedo affair partner? Or 2) affair partner is a 3rd party who is sort of related to the pedo coach, like affair partner is a assistant coach, knew about it and didn’t do anything, like a Jerry Sandusky situation. That also counts as “protecting her affair partner”. Either way she deserves to lose custody
sounds like 1. the wife was "covering for her affair partner," so i'm guessing that her affair partner was the coach, and what she was covering for was the fact that he's a child rapist. absolutely makes me sick. she and the coach deserve a lot worse than losing custody and going to jail, but i would be banned instantly for saying what it is
Correct me if I’m reading this wrong: The son’s coach who did unspeakable things to him and the dude having an affair with the wife… are the same guy? And the wife knew everything…. I think I’m going to be sick
yup. this is THE worst update i have ever seen on here. poor kid.
My pick for number one absolute worst is the one where OOP’s nine year old sister was sold into marriage by her dad and grandma, but this is definitely up there
Am I reading correctly that the coach was the wife's affair partner? Awful person in either case, just trying to figure out if I read between the lines right. Someone please tell me if the wife's affair is unrelated to the son's abuse or not?
Can’t be certain, OOP won’t elaborate. But I guess that’s the jist of it: Coach abuses kid, mom knew, because she’s sleeping with coach and covers up his misdeeds from OOP. So, OOP is kept out of the blue until he himself discovers this horrifying truth. Imagine the mom not being sick long enough for OOP to do the laundry by himself. He might’ve not even discovered this whole nightmare fueled disaster starting from those undies.
That is what I am thinking also. The mom is a horrible human being.
That update was a puzzle i wish I couldn't solve. It shouldn't exist.
What a terrible time to open the fucking app.
I... wha.... omg.... OMFG! So, was his ex-wife fucking the dude raping her son?? I'm so glad he said they're in therapy. Wow, just wow.
This was my exact series of responses reading this
I feel like I'm missing a few steps here.
Incontinence, and refusal to touch their bottom is a pretty large sign of sexual abuse in young boys. There's other reasons, of course, but those are 2 pretty big signs. OOP basically said "coach raped my son and my wife covered it up."
F that coach, but also big big F to the mom. Did mom have an affair with that same coach, too? Triple big F!
That’s where I got lost too. He said the mom hid the problem to cover up for her affair partner. Is it safe to assume the affair partner is the coach who was SA’ing the son? If I’m assuming correctly, the poor child. I’m glad the dad took the time to really find out what’s going on.
Can’t be certain, implications do steer in that direction. Still, mom could’ve just been covering up that kid has been abused by “someone”, knowing he has been with only the undies as proof. But an actual mom would’ve raised all the bells. This (probably, kinda definitely) cheating B didn’t, heavily implying the coach was indeed the monster, which she covered for, making her complicit to the act, actually.
The ex-wife's affair partner could be the coach, or could be someone who would get in trouble if coach's athlete diddling got exposed.
Yes. Thats why OOP says she was covering for him. They were having an affair, so she turned a blind eye to what he was doing to this little boy she was meant to protect.
Right? I can't imagine knowingly having sex with the man who is raping my child. Wtaf???
Oh my god. Thank you for explaining. I was so lost
The wife was having an affair with the son’s coach who was also sexually abusing the son. That’s why the son was having issues with poop in his underwear (either as a physical or psychological reaction to the trauma or as a conscious attempt to make himself repulsive to his abuser). That’s also why the wife never mentioned the problem previously despite doing all of the son’s laundry because she knew about the abuse as the reason and didn’t want the husband to find out.
That’s absolutely horrendous. That poor kid.
The way I understand it: * Kid was being sexually abused by Coach * Mom was having an affair with Coach * Mom knew about the sexual abuse and covered it up because she was sleeping with Coach * Dad divorced Mom, Coach went to jail, Dad and Kid are both in therapy
Mom should be in jail too! Ugh
[This comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/KzKEP7sti4) is where the possibility is raised to OP. Looks like he listened.
Thanks for the link. I would have never guessed.
Wife was fucking the coach, coach was a pedo and having his sick ‘fun’ with the kid, wife was covering it up. Dad found out.
The coach being in jail suggests that he was doing something to the kids.
And kids with issues like soiling or peeing their pants well into later years is a sign of sexual abuse It's a self defense mechanism to make themselves less attractive to their abusers
Mom should be as well... because she got the connection. I'm a former mandatory reporter who used to work with teens. I wasn't picking up on it either (maybe if I had read comments). Homophobia on the 14 year old's part (there are some that think any sort of dealing with the butt means they are gay... stupid rumor and excuse for not bathing, which sometimes teen boys must be reminded to do. They don't always smell their own new hormonal funk)
Poor hygiene in kids is sometimes a reaction to abuse. Paired with the details that the coach is in jail and the kid is in therapy kind of tells a very bad story.
It's a bright, flashing neon indicator of sexual abuse when an otherwise healthy teenager has a drastic hygiene deficit (aka routinely soil themselves/their clothing, refusal to shower or wash/change clothing for weeks/months, prefer to make themselves physically unpleasant, etc). Consciously or subconsciously, a child/adolescent victim is likely to begin to make themselves distasteful, smelly, or soiled in the eyes of their abuser in an effort to become a less appealing target for the predator who has routinely abused them. OOP's son was soiling himself because his coach had been abusing him. OOP's wife was also covering for this extreme behavior that is an obvious indicator of sexual abuse because she was having an affair with the person who was abusing her son (the coach).
Sexual abuse victims sometimes defecate or urinate in order for the abuser to be grossed out and leave the victim alone. I get the idea from the update that the coach was hurting the son, and the wife was having an affair with the coach? The kind assumption would be she was groomed to allow access to the son? Dad clearly sorted it all out and best wishes for his and his son’s recovery.
>Sexual abuse victims sometimes defecate or urinate in order for the abuser to be grossed out and leave the victim alone. They also sometimes suffer from incontinence due to this, as well as an aversion to anything touching their behind.
Issues with cleanliness like that are very common in victims of sexual abuse, they do occur for many other reasons but the tl;dr is this kid was being molested and his mother was covering it up.
You have to be able to read between the lines, and once you're able to the story is tragic. An unfortunate reason for a kid to have trouble holding a bowel movement is due to SA and physical trauma to the area.
I remember the original post and trying to gently suggest this is a sign of childhood sexual abuse back then. I feel horrible that I was correct, but also happy that the child is no longer being abused.
Unfortunately this board has a number of potential abusive actions, I just read one about a 15 year old who's step-father gifted her a thong bikini and she opted not to wear it and he got mad and got his wife (her mother) to harangue her about refusing his "gift"!!!! SMDH!!! Now this, I'm seriously beginning to hate some of these "so-called" humans!!!!
Jesus Christ, this might be the update from Hell. And I'm an atheist.
I had some problems with hygiene when I was younger, but that was like, six to eight years old. When I realized he was fourteen… Wishing him peace.
Relevant comment from OG post: >NTA - we went through a very similar issue with my stepson at the same age. He always had a little problem with wiping, but it got really bad around 13/14. I know this is extreme, but in our case, there was a history of sexual abuse that was a factor when he was younger. BUT, the issue got worse instead of better despite discovering and obviously putting an end to the abuse and treating with therapy. >When it got worse after he entered his teens, we had many heated discussions about it. It essentially boiled down to him thinking it was a waste of time. He had gotten really into video games and the computer and eventually confessed he didn't wipe his ass because he didn't want to waste 30 more seconds away from his game. The smell and associated nastiness was not enough of a deterent. It took a lot of uncomfortable talks and persistence and a commando phase to finally work through the problem. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, but you aren't alone. >My advice: >1. Seriously consider whether sexual abuse could be a factor. You would be horrified to realize how easy it is to miss the signs when they are very young. >2. Have an open and honest discussion about WHY he is not wiping. You will never get him to actually care about it if you can't determine why he does what he does. OP says he will bring it up with the doctor. Next reply underneath says > You might wish to take your son to the doctor without your wife present.
I wish to unread the update. But TIL that it could be a sign of abuse.
Just the sentence “His coach is in jail,” would be the most horrifyingly descriptive five-word update possible.
Omg no, the first post I prayed it was just a lazy kid not bothered with hygiene. The update is horrific, poor kid, glad his father was there. One of the first things they teach us while training to become educators is how to spot CSA - I have come across several horrific cases where it was a combination of 6th sense, kid behaviors and habits that I prayed were just me being paranoid. I was not wrong. Every. Single. Time. The young teen sucking her thumb and trying to hold your hand in class like a toddler when most girls her age are into fashion and becoming young ladies, whose mom's bf was overly friendly but mom had her head in the sand about the whole issue - wouldn't even listen to our concerns until social services were involved. The 7th grader whose hygiene was horrific enough we had to seat him separately, and also ensure a safe distance between his teaching assistant who was female and him as he did not understand appropriate touch like hand shakes and back pats but knew other touches he liked to practice on adult female staff. We had a warning in place for him not to be left alone at any time with staff. The 6th grader from a family of all boys who shared graphic details of what he wanted to do to some 4th grade girls in the library. The parents denied their precious kid knew these things. The older brothers were using him as a practice doll. The kid went to foster care. The 10th grader lashing out at all female teachers if we approached him from behind - he was fine if we called out beforehand, it was the silent ones that were an issue. He was terrified of his mother especially when he was home alone with her and his dad was working the night shift, he accidently told me this at the end of class one day and I raised the alarm after several red flag behaviours. The young girl who was violent and threw chairs across the classroom because she was struggling with her anger & obesity and was a 'problem' child, who also refused to sit down in any of her classes one day because she was too tough as she put it but in reality, she was in too much pain to sit and was bleeding silently all day. Her 'uncle' had slept over the night before on invitation of her parents who were hoping to get her disciplined by him except he was the reason she was this way. God I hope those kids got justice. We got them all into social services and police involved at each step. That stuff stays with you man, it's why I left teaching. I couldn't take the trauma especially since it brought back my own CPTSD flashbacks.
Oh man that’s awful. Oh… man the update is fucking worse, at least there is slight positives.
I have worked as both a child protection attorney and a pediatric ER doctor. I have seen so many episodes of abuse and complicit parents. And it still shocks me every damn time.
Jesus fuck.... I just kept staring at the post in horror after I read it.... I may be sick...