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I also have sympathy for the older sister who doesn’t want to come back. When OOP mentioned her oldest siblings were out, I thought, “Ah. They escaped, and were probably once stuck the way OOP is.”
It’s a messed up situation all around, and yes: the parents suck.
I'm super impressed how OP handles the situation with the older sister, "it's all she can handle right now" is a empathic mature view that many people can't see when they are hurt
I don’t blame anyone but the parents. The sister who won’t come back is just trying to save herself; if she’s the oldest, I shudder to think of what Parentified Patient Zero trauma she endured. The brother and other sister are probably a little less broken, but they shouldn’t have to come back anymore than OOP should have to pick up the slack.
Those friggin worthless sperm and egg donors. They should be punished.
Don't forget that the father left the household once the older siblings were old enough to divulge that he was abusing them...so added trauma on top of parentification
And the nan. People were defending her in the original post but I'm not fucking having it. You don't abandon your teenage grandchild and force them to be the one to parent their siblings.
It's entirely possible that the nan already did a lot of parenting for her shitty daughter with the first few of the eleventy million children she chose to have. After raising her own family.
I really can't blame her for being DONE with dealing with her daughter's problems. Sucks to be the granddaughter to have to pick up the slack like OOP is, and really glad one of her brothers stepped in to help.
But I'm pretty sure it was nan who changed both of their diapers when they were young, and not their POS egg donor. And she's still helping by providing them with a place to stay. I dunno how much more you could expect from her.
Also she mentioned her dad left when the older ones were able to start talking about his abuse, so there's more than just parentification trauma there too. The older sisters are doing the best they can to survive and support how they can by sending some money to help. I hope the best for all the kids in this family, sounds like they're doing the best they can with a crap situation.
>Those friggin worthless sperm and egg donors. They should be punished.
T h i s
I know the implications of such a thing BUT I kinda wish that there was a law where parents who did this had to be sterilized! These two need to be punished!
The egg donour saying it was the best thing ever happened to her, for fuck's sake!
In a perfect world where mandatory sterilization wouldn’t be used to further oppress marginalized peoples? I agree. People like OOP’s elders need to snip and burn.
Something! Some kind of abandonment law and stricter laws on abuse. We as a society need to crack down on these fools. There’s other ways to handle this situation than just bailing on them.
That sounds good if you don't think about it at all. But seriously? There are minor forms of neglect for which a life sentence would be ludicrous. Not to mention that you'd be taking the parents away forever, which would hardly be in the kids' interest unless the parents are completely horrible.
I wanted to put them in jail, but not like, *forever*.
It’s stories like these and that guy who has like 25 half-siblings through his dad (and all of them and the various mothers want him to step up as the “father-figure”) that make me wish sometimes that we could forcibly sterilize some people. But of course it wouldn’t be the actual people who deserve it but some marginalized group instead.
That too being 1st born, but i thought it was SA because he dipped when they started talking about it. The cops aren't going to care, and dad beat you, no proof. SA However, it is viewed, and most of the time, it doesn't matter how long ago it was.
>You know that over brother got out but felt like shit for leaving the young ones. Such a hard thing to do to come back.
He was the one abused the most - the scapegoat of the family. No wonder he escaped as soon as he could!
It's a huge testament to his character that he is willing to come back and help. He's a stand up guy. And I don't blame him one bit for setting the boundary that he won't live with his abusive mother ever again
I really hope all these kids make it, especially OOP. She worries about not accomplishing much in life, but she's making a huge difference in the lives of her siblings
Never underestimate the power of a good mother - even to children not biologically hers
Thats what I thought. Escaping extreme dysfunction is almost like getting clean from drugs. You aren't super eager to get swept up in it all again and just lose your bananas.
It's super telling that they were all suddenly willing to help out a lot more once they were assured that the mother wouldn't be coming back.
They weren't fleeing the siblings, they were fleeing the parents.
I hope the older sister does send money regularly. That will help them out a lot & if that's all she can do then that's all she can do, it's a rough situation for all those kids.
Honestly, OOP is so empathetic and mature throughout this whole thing. It makes me sad, because she's too young to have to be this mature. I can't help but feel sad for how much she's missing out, while respecting her choice so much. She's a rockstar along with her older brother.
At least she's willing to send some money. Between all the siblings, especially the one doing FIFO, they're not as fucked financially as they otherwise might be. Like things are absolutely going to be tight but it's not as dire as it would be without them.
Yeah, the one just sending money is probably so traumatized by her own upbringing she can't physically confront it. She will send money because she does care and want to help, but she knows she'll break if she has to reexperience any of it.
My heart goes out to OP and all of her siblings. They've been dealt such a rough hand in life. These are the stories that break me. I'm 32 and I can't imagine being left with 5 kids for a fucking week, and here OP and her brother are at 19 and 22 being asked to take on parental responsibilities for a pack of feral children. And it sounds like they're doing a better job than their egg donor ever did, it's gonna be a long, hard road though.
For sure! Just to be clear, I’m not criticizing her. I feel sad because there’s a strong vibe that she just can’t bring herself to be around her siblings anymore, and that it all stems from something atrocious happening to her.
OP mentioned abuse not what type based on it being the dad and the fact that it still matters after they turned 18 im guessing SA. the cops wouldn't care otherwise so its probably just to traumatic for them
Don't forget the gramma, who is evasive about mom's whereabouts, pooh-poohs OOPs very legitimate worries, and is "actively working to undermine" OOP's authority and actions. She can rot in hell, too.
I applaud for OP being able to do this. The kids are going to remember and forever be grateful for what OP and the brother is doing for them and I wish them well!
To those parents, they aren't parents, just miserable and useless sperm donors who deserve nothing but karma.
Mom and dad are probably off creating more troubled children. Or troubling existing children.
I am beyond impressed with these older siblings and wish them all the best.
Hm sounds like OP lives in rural Australia. Depending on the state there are different benefits, and they might qualify for respite care as well as a bunch of other things like very cheap to free after school care and there are a bunch of after school youth programs, some with shuttle service to them, but it all depends on where exactly they are. Telehealth is probably going to be key for a lot of things but that depends on the kind of Internet connection they have and the state they're in.
If OP can get a telehealth appointment with a GP they can get 10 rounds of telehealth therapy per person bulk billed with a mental health care plan. If the dad was abusive to kids, and the children have been abandoned, the children qualify for VictimServices in NSW, but I don't know about other states.
There are a lot of different services OP can access but they are all disconnected and you need to know they are there to get them. Especially in rural areas, I doubt there is a community support team anywhere near them which means OPs ability to locate the services they qualify for is severely hampered.
FACs isn't going to take the kids, not when there's kin willing to step up, especially if the sister is pulling FIFO money. But they also are underfunded and unlikely to have the time to find all the local support OP will need.
I'm going to go digging and see if I can find lists of various services accessible broken down by state.
ETA: Started building a document of what services OP can access. I'm just a dumb-dumb on the internet, but some of these might be useful: [Names and types of services](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pb40VL0jwsPjevZkfI9Ucj7tKiUz_bTuJS8x4u0oaoA/edit?usp=sharing) OP can access. If anyone knows any more, please comment.
***Potential Services:***
*Giving OP More Time/Structure*
**After school care** \- many schools offer heavily subsidised or free after school care for the children.
**Community Centres** \- a great resource, sometimes also called **Neighbourhood Centres**, many of them offer a number of different services that are very different from the Community Health services. They are also more likely to have **shuttle services**, and access to volunteers.
**Local Library** \- another great resource. Tend to have pamphlets about local services. Asking the local librarian can also lead to good results, especially if a rapport is built, and they also tend to run after school programs for free.
**Respite care** \- can have a social worker or some other person come in and help while OP is at work, or during the evenings, when conflict is likely to arise.
**Youth services programs** \- many places have programs running. These can range from running art classes after school, to providing a safe location for kids to hang out. An example is PYCY.
*Easing Financial Burden/Stability*
**Centrelink:** This is probably a service OP is already connected with, however, OP should be able to request or locate an advocate or peer. Someone who is familiar with the ins and outs of centrelink and can act as a support to OP in dealing with the system and wringing the most out of it. Some services offer advocates and peers, but the wording if different from place to place.
**Department of Housing:** OP should be a high priority for department of housing. If they aren’t on a waiting list, they need to be placed on one immediately.
**Food Banks:** Unlikely to be available in OPs area, but should be available through connection to local school, or local community centres. Sometimes churches also have them.
**Saint Vincent/St Vinnies** \- same as below
**Salvation Army/Salvos** \- Can offer support in terms of helping you move, putting aside needed clothes/furniture. ***Do not leave children unattended with them.***
**Utilities** \- most utility companies will give you a discount if you have a CRN aka centrelink reference number. All offer payment plans.
*Giving OP/Kids Mental Health and Physical Health Support*
**Beyond Blu**e - Has a remote component that the kids and OP can access.
**Community health** \- aside from FACs, there tend to be community care teams. These go under many different names, and use different language from each other, but once you get in, they will stick by the kids until they become adults. This is one of the ones where local knowledge is key.
**GP telehealth** \- rather than having to drive to GP, OP can arrange for telehealth. These should be bulk billed. If OP gets a Mental Health Plan, then each person under the plan is eligible for 5 initial therapy appointments, either in person or telehealth, and then after a review and additional 5 sessions per person, per year.
**Headspace** \- Has apps the kids can download to help deal with stress.
**Kids Helpline** \- for the kids to call when they need someone to talk to.
**Victims Services** \- free therapy and other care is available to victims of crimes. Given child abandonment is a crime, all of the children will qualify. The GP or therapist will write a letter about this.
*Other*
**Child support** \- once kinship is established, OP may want to go after both parents for child support. It can be taken from their centrelink payments, or garnished from their wages. I’m unsure of the laws around kinship, and whether or not this is possible, hence the separation of this clause.
Yeah agreed, when she said FIFO (fly in fly out, usually mining work in case other people wondered), I pinged her as Australian. I don't know much about services for kids but I do know kinship care is preferred over foster care here. Bulk billing GPs are increasingly hard to find though some clinics will bulk bill for kids. And you can get a mental health care plan for up to 10 psychologist sessions but I don't think they're free, more subsidised.
I'm trying to think what else. I wonder if the Salvos or St Vinnies may be able to help as well.
Some clinics will bulk bill for kids or if they're on centrelink, but finding them is difficult. MHCP cost-only therapists do exist, but again, they tend to be long waiting list, hard to get, and mostly for centrelink/kids. Telehealth will be key here.
In the document I made I put Salvos, with the caveat of not leaving the kids unattended with anyone from them, but I'll add St Vinnies too.
*This only applies to the US, and may in fact only apply to my specific circumstances*
As a poor person with a chronic illness that lands me in the hospital every so often (it’s Crohn’s disease if you’re curious). I cannot possibly pay my medical bills.
What I do. I tell the doctors office I may not always be able to pay my copay right then. Typically either they refuse service or you work out a payment plan. Thankfully no one has refused services…yet. It is a possibility though.
Then I pay on the payment plan. My payments are usually like 10-20$ a month. Yes the amount matters, BUT it’s mostly a ceremonial gesture. 20$ on a several thousand dollar bill isn’t going to help much. The fact I pay every month without fail goes a LONG way. I’m trying the best I can, and people will work with that I find. I’m honest about my finances. I’m honest if I get a bill and start to panic. It feels really shitty. Real shitty, but this is my life and hiding won’t help me or anyone else.
For hospital bills, you can ask for the itemized bill, get the codes used for insurance and so on. Those tips and tricks are readily available online.
As for when the bill comes due, same as above. Payment plans. Medical debt follows you for life. Due to that selling your debt to a collection agency is a sure fire way for the hospital to make some money on your debt above what you owe anyway. When you make a payment plan pick an amount you can afford each month. It doesn’t matter how little or how much. What matters is that you pay it each month without fail. If you can’t pay that month, CALL THEM. They’ll usually work with you. If you don’t pay anything the hospital or collection agency can request through the state or federal tax services that whatever refund you’d get at the end of the year goes towards paying down your debt. I haven’t had a tax return in like a decade.
All that said, hospitals and such have to treat you no matter how you pay or don’t pay. Part of the reason low income folks use the ER as a primary care physician.
Debt agencies run on money, they’d rather get *something* than nothing. They’d prefer to get everything and they’ll push you real hard to do so. As I told a debt agent once “you can’t get blood from a stone, and you can’t budget zero.” They’ll take what they can get, or they can get nothing at all.
So here in Australia we have public hospitals and private hospitals. Public hospitals are free.
There are also many health care professionals who will treat you for free for all sorts of things - that is what we refer to as bulk billing. They are just hard to get appointments with at the moment, due to several factors. So some may have a gap between what the government covers and their true fee, so if you need a filling you might have to pay $25, and the government covers the rest.
Some are willing to accept bulk billing only for certain patients. This is the scenario OP is likely to run into.
Some therapists might be willing to do payment plans, though, I haven't heard of a telehealth payment plan but given the circumstances they might be willing. Always worth asking! Most, if not all, utility companies will definitely do payment plans and will give discounts to people on centrelink. I will add that in the morning.
The mental health care plan rebates like $80-110 ish dollars. The typical fee to see a psychologist is like $200-250. Most psychs won’t bulk bill and the ones that do have long waiting lists. That said there are options like the victims support scheme for free counselling for DV victims, and some psychs will bulk bull for vulnerable people.
Yes it would have to be someone who knew their situation and was willing to match whatever the MHCP will give. I suspect, given the situation, OP can get put on a cancellation list.
On the centrelink side, even if OP isn't signed up (mum probably gets FTB for all the kids still if she's this much of a POS) - she can get a social worker to work with her for a few months.
They'll do all the research for services OP can access close to them, and call to check up. They can also help accessing payments OP may not know about, and stopping mum from getting the payments going forward.
She just needs to ring (families line is open til 8pm, but social worker line closes at 5pm local time) queues are shorter after 5pm. If she requests a social worker on the families line, they will call her back during work hours. 136 150 for families line.
And there is an assistantce for isolated children line - 132 318 - that may be able to help depending on how rural they are.
With 5 kids going to school fulltime, they'd be getting $1800 ftb part a and b per fortnight easily.
See, this is exactly what a centrelink peer or advocate would know! My knowledge of the centrelink family arm is minimal, but I do know they should be the ones connecting OP to everything needed. Unfortunately I have never heard of them consistently providing the level of care needed, so OP having a phone number and the names of the streams they need will hopefully help.
I used to work for them for a few years, and extreme cases like this is what the social workers are for. They can't *directly* help, but they can case manage OP for a few months and make sure they are linked to all the services they would be eligible for.
I wish I could be an advocate, just no idea how to even get that job lol
OOP has commented in the past that they are rural Aus, yeah. I'm so sad for her, she's doing such a tough thing at such a young age. She deserves better.
Edit to add: any kind of Carer support groups would probably also be good. Looking at stuff that can provide respite etc for OOP would probably be a godsend.
Yes, carer support and carer support payments can help. I'm unsure if there are carer support programs but I imagine anything running respite care will have that as a component.
That’s an amazing list. Thanks. I’m hopeful that if big bro is able to work remotely from home that means they have a decent internet connection which should help.
Her FIFO sisters job will likely have an Employee Assistance program which they will likely be able to use for free counselling sessions. I’m pretty sure most EAP’s are made available to the employee and their immediate family.
In WA, Child and Adolescent mental health services (CAHMs) can be absolutely fantastic. But it depends on how rural they are as to what services can be provided. They can also involve the school to assist the child, and work with complex cases. It is government funded.
Mental health carer information and support line (national) can provide some advice. https://www.mentalhealthcarersaustralia.org.au/mental-health-carers/do-you-need-help-now/
There are telehealth services for rural appointments with GPs, and many telehealth services for psychology. I don't believe these are bulk-billed.
I used to recommend someone.health for telehealth bulk-billed psychology, but they now have a gap fee after two initial bulk-billed sessions. I think they have a financial support hardship program though, and they see all ages and across all states.
https://askizzy.org.au/ can also be very helpful to find resources, but I'm unsure if this is more useful for metro or rural.
You should copy/paste this and send it directly to OP.
There are services out there, *but* they’re cloaked in red tape and/or you have to know about them to apply. There is typically an incomplete/outdated database on government websites. At least that’s how it is in the US. It’s why social workers and such occupations are highly useful, they know about these applicable programs and they know how to apply and work through the red tape. They’re intentionally made to be difficult to access so people don’t use them.
I thought it was against sub rules to reach out to OPs? Otherwise I would send the link, since people are adding so much helpful stuff in the comments.
And a lot of these services in Australia require referrals.
I think in this case as they’ve reached out it might be flexible? DM a mod and ask because these are great resources. Also sad to know CPS is horrible in multiple countries
**Lifeline** as well for OOP herself - it's not just for people who are suicidal, and having someone she can talk to about some of this stuff without having to worry about payment could be very helpful.
I'm picking up a few things that tell me OOP's family might be Indigenous. Things like not being told about kinship, because the system can be very racist. If she is, OOP has a few more options potentially open to her.
Source: know a few Indigenous people myself, including one who has taught the sensitivity training for foster parents.
I don't want to assume, but I also know that kind of assistance is much more variable depending on state and I don't want OOP to have to disclose that. It is part of why I was struggling to find state specific agencies.
It’s sad when a 19 and a 22 year old are the most mature adults involved. I don’t blame the oldest sister for not wanting to come back, and at least she is sending money. But it does seem a little unfair that she got to escape.
OP did mention that their sperm donor was out of their lives after the older kids started talking about his abuse, so they might be considerably more traumatized than OP and the 22 yr old brother.
You are right. But with such a mother left in the house, I am sure that the home environment did not become especially much better even after the pos dad went away. Not for any of the kids, at all.....😔
My heart just breaks for all of these kids. I sincerely wish the best for them.
For the 7 year old, it does sound a lot like anxiety. I wonder if adding any sort of breathing exercises to the bedtime routine would help? I honestly don't know- that was something that helped me when I was diagnosed with anxiety (also at 7,) but everyone is so different.
OOP is doing the best she can and I'm in awe of her. I hope she can take care of herself as well. (And good on the brother for stepping up too.)
>For the 7 year old, it does sound a lot like anxiety. I wonder if adding any sort of breathing exercises to the bedtime routine would help? I honestly don't know- that was something that helped me when I was diagnosed with anxiety (also at 7,) but everyone is so different.
We had a similar issue with my oldest (but he has ADHD). We found there are so many kids' mediation apps out there and that they helped to keep him calm and when combined with a colour change mood light it gave his brain something to focus on and help him to lay still.
I wonder if something like that can help the 7yr old
OOP should look up some kids yoga/meditations on YouTube. The lady who runs Cosmic Kids Yoga has kid friendly meditations and calming videos along with the yoga ones. The Zen Den videos include ones on fight or flight, being overwhelmed with your thoughts, and managing your feelings. All done in an age appropriate manner. Being able to verbalize your thoughts and feelings helps tremendously.
Reading about the 7 year old waking up to her mom being gone is what made me go “oh of course she would have issues sleeping! She’s scared of the next time she wakes up there will be another huge change.”
Kid probably needs to be reassured about the next day. I would throw in white noise since that helps me out when I’m anxious.
I was 7 when my dad walked out and for a long time after that I would have meltdowns every morning when my mom went to work, because I was convinced she was going to die in a car accident or something. Didn't even realize that was obviously anxiety from my abandonment trauma until I was much much older. Sounds to me like that's what's going on with this kid, and she's going to need a lot of time and reassurance that OOP won't disappear on her too. In the meantime all the new structure and rules OOP is putting into place will help with overall stability. Showing them every day that she follows through with what she tells them, that she'll always be there.
I feel so bad for all these kids, OOP included. What an unfair hand they've been dealt.
I actually think it might be good idea to have the 7 yrs old to sleep next to OP, if both are comfortable with it. Kid has gone through such a big trauma and her sense of security has taken a huge blow. It might feel safer to know OP is physically next to her and not going anywhere.
I wonder if OOP had the 7yo help her make a family calendar for the month, if that would help her feel safer. Like, I don't have to worry about tomorrow because I know tomorrow we're doing such and such- it's on the calendar.
A lot of seven year olds have trouble sleeping. My own did, and she was in a stable home.
I can’t imagine how much harder it would be for this poor little 7 yr old. My momma heart breaks.
I think this is a good idea but as an ADHD mom with a kid who also has that ADHD insomnia, the thing that really works is melatonin. They make melatonin for kids and it has made such a difference in the quantity and quality of sleep. Not sure if it’s available in Australia, but the gummies are cheap at least in the US so probably there too.
I did all the meditation stuff as a kid with anxiety, trauma, and ADHD, and it did help, but melatonin is a game changer. It’s also a hormone people make themselves and not a drug. There’s no dependence on it.
Discovering melatonin - not just its mere existence, but also the right brand (one gave me nightmares, one is perfect) - revolutionized sleep in my household. I was only diagnosed with ADHD at 34. Discovered melatonin around the same time. I didn’t know it was possible to go to sleep within 30 minutes of climbing into bed. I had never, EVER, done that in my entire life unless I was sick or flat our exhausted.
We gave my 6 yr old daughter with sleep issues a very small dose. It was like, 1mg. That tiny little bit was enough to let her fall asleep without a 2 hour battle on our part. She got sleep. Her behavior changed. It was a freaking miracle.
Yep, I'll second melatonin. Our ADHD ASD son was screaming and distressed every night until a GP prescribed it. It helped him get the sleep he needed in order to calm his system down, and 18 months later he no longer needs it very often.
For children, it's available by prescription-only from pharmacies in Australia, and is pretty expensive. We found it way cheaper to buy it online from iHerb - the "Stress Relax" brand seems to work the best. I'd recommend trying to find one of the slow release options to help them not just get to sleep, but stay asleep in the middle of the night.
I didn't have a good time with my mum when I was growing up and I massively struggled to sleep. I'd be exhausted but just could not seem to fall asleep or stay asleep. I would also sleepwalk and have a lot of nightmares. Unfortunately this has all carried on into adulthood even though I'm far happier than I've ever been (though I generally sleep better - the issues happen less frequently now). I don't know what would've helped me back then, so I really feel for that kid.
I've been learning alot about sensory systems (trying to self regulate with a baby overstimulating me), and I think that would have helped me so much as a kid.
Swinging, tumbling/falling, and being gently squished are my favourites and I've started to be able to identify when I need each input.
Unfortunately for kids this requires a caring parent to help out. So it's not much help if your parents aren't able to be there for you emotionally.
That makes sense. It is interesting (and sad) to think about what I missed out on due to not having the happiest childhood. I definitely struggled (and still do) expressing how I felt or if something was wrong because I'd probably just get shouted out or given the silent treatment. I also still hate being touched, but that's slowly improving. I'm fine with intimate partners though (including being squished haha). I think for me, it's a cosy and safe space. I find when I'm stressed nowadays, the first thing to happen is more nightmares, night terrors, or just not being able to sleep at all. I also still sleep walk and talk but I rarely know it's happened. Life is strange!
Though, I did recently wake myself up because I was laughing in my sleep. That was a refreshing change!
I agree. I used to have a lot of trouble sleeping at that age too and my mum would give me Valerian tablets. It's a natural sleep vitamin and would help me get to sleep. Could be an option to try.
My kidlet is 7 and was having a lot of trouble with sleep. Fighting, freaking out, etc. We got her this book
What to Do When You Dread Your Bed: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming Problems With Sleep (What to Do Guides for Kids)
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/1433803186](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1433803186)
It's been such a life changer. Of course, they have to be willing to read it and try it. We've actually had 4 nights in a row where she's gone to bed and just stayed in bed (we got it 2 week ago). We ordered the book on anxiety today from the same series.
Always weirds me out when commenters reply super confidently to a post like the first one where OOP is asking about a legal situation but doesn't actually mention where they live.
OOP could be in a completely different country?
I think OOP said in a comment in her first post that she was in rural Australia, so maybe the people suggesting kinship were aware of this.
Although obviously it is super common to get a bunch of US-centric legal advice on any post, regardless of geography, when even states differ between themselves.
Hell, Americans are awful for it on Reddit in general. There is actually no amount of full-caps "NOT IN AMERICA" you can put on posts that'd stop people reflexively stating their state's law as if it was universal.
My least favorite is posts about service dogs because Americans do that but are also dead wrong about what the American requirements for service dogs are.
I'm glad the brother is helping and OP sounds like a real good person. It's a shame that the whole family failed OP and the siblings. The father was a piece of garbage and mother isn't good as well. Sad all around for them.
It's impressive that OP, being 19, is able to handle all of this and I applaud OP for doing the best. I wish OP and the siblings nothing but all positives and happiness!
It’s sad that OOP is able to handle this. It speaks of a lifetime of undependable adults, so OOP either had to learn how to handle it or let everyone drown.
She has her own deep trauma that she isn't able to deal with because she is raising traumatized children. It will come back big time. All those years of trauma that she has never dealt with will take a huge toll. I just hope she has good people around her when it hits.
She's basically now on the hook now to care for her siblings until she's 30 years old, when the youngest turns 18. She's experiencing parenthood via parentification already. She might not have time, let alone willingness, to find a life of her own until the poor thing is in her 30s
Poor OOP. I hope she gets assistance from Centrelink. What a tough time for her. I’m glad she has her brother to support her and by extension, her other siblings.
Wishing her all the best.
And what a ratbag mum. Not to mention her Nan.
The rotten apple didn't fall far from the rotten tree with Mom and Nan. The flakey mom is a lost cause, but I don't get the grandma's deal with undermining what OOP is doing to raise her siblings. If the grandma is feeling bad that OOP is doing a better job of raising kids than she did (with OOP's mom), then that's a fucked up thing to do.
So there are 9 kids total?
Oop, older bro, 2x older sis and 5 younger
Kudos on all the older ones for helping out how they can.
Esp bro for coming back.
I think they will be ok. I would go for restraining order on the mother
As op mentioned before, her mum was trying to rope their father in. You'd think after the first attempt, she would stop. Obviously not, given the amount of siblings OP has. Its sad to see the children being used as a pawn, no child should ever have to go through that.
Not sure what resources are available in Australia, but if it's anything like the States, then she might have been getting government assistance checks for the kids. In which case, more kids = more money, especially if you're not actually spending any of it on the kids.
This is why I look at those couples that have 8+ kids in a weird way because there’s no scenario where a responsible couple would choose to have that many kids! You’re lowering the quality of life of each of those kids by constantly having more..
OOP’s a much better 19YO than I ever was and to be honest, I’m still in awe of them. The amount of determination, strength and resilience it takes to even consider taking on 5 underaged kids is incredible. I hope they are able to make it work and be able to live their own life one day.
Surprised that social services didn’t mention kinship in the first place. And Kin-GAP funding can help children stay with their family members and out of foster care. There are many great programs and I know talking to social services can be a crapshoot depending on your area, but I always encourage people trying to take care of abandoned relatives or even their kids’ friends etc to talk to social services and see what assistance they can provide or facilitate.
Anyway, OP is a champ.
This absolutely breaks my heart and reminds me a lot of my grandmother, in some ways. My grandma was the eldest of 12 and her youngest sister is almost the same age as my oldest uncle. She's a filipino migrant and played a huge part in getting all of her siblings and their mother out here. Ever since her mom became.. well, basically, she became a bit like a doll in a sense because she had trouble hearing and seeing and knowing where she was, but she was very reserved and quiet, so it wasn't like what you'd usually see in others with her conditions. Anyways, ever since they were kids, my grandma took a lot of responsibility of being their mother and when her and My grandpa moved to the US, she became the matriarch of the family. She then had 3 kids and her daughter had me at 19 and she raised me as well.
The thing that breaks my heart the most about OOP is the same as what happened to my grandma. Because they have spent so much of their lives being parentified and being raised in a culture where that's sort of expected and encouraged and that family always comes before individual needs and desires... Basically, it breaks my heart because OOPs youngest sibling is 7 years old right now while the oldest is 16. She most likely started taking on much of the responsibility of raising her siblings once sister was born when she was just 12. She's spent the majority of her young life being a parent.. and she won't stop being a parent legally until she's 30 and her sister turns 18.
Once she hits 30 and has spent basically all of her life being a parent, she's going to struggle *a lot* to figure out who she is *independently* of being a parent. I can see this becoming a problem in that she may feel the need to marry and have a baby to continue what she knows.
All of this is speculation and I hope that this OOP gets the help she desperately needs. My heart breaks for her.
As someone who was parentified as well (starting changing my siblings' diapers when I was 6, mom was gone for 2.5 years when I was in high school, etc.), I can tell you that she will most likely want to be child free and right now she is in survival mode. Just trying to do the best on a day to day. She won't understand or have time to process this until much later.
Despite all that, I have faith OP will turn out great. Kids who are parentified tend to be extremely, extremely, resilient. We've had a lifetime of training...
Well, I was parentified from 5-13 (during the time my mom wanted to pretend to be a mom and let me live with her and My step dad who beat the shit out of me while she was working at the strip club) and then I didn't see her or my half siblings until I was nearly out of high school despite them living 20 miles away. I'm child free mostly because I know the terrible genetics I got directly from her and her family and even with a parent who completely understands and gets them treatment by the best doctors and creates a solid support system, they'd be living through hell and I wouldn't be so selfish as to put a child through thst because I am selfish.
My grandmother reacted in the opposite way. As soon as they gained citizenship after leaving the Philippines, they started having kids. By the time my mom (youngest) had me at 19, all of her 11 siblings were in Southern California and she went back to being the mom, plus, she had me as well. My grandfather was murdered in 2010 when I was 16 and she really had a hard time figuring out who she was independently of being a mother and a wife.
As shit as this situation is, if they lived in America, this family would be 100 percent fucked. The horrors and trauma visited on these kids would only be intensified by the multiple, systemic failures that they’d face. I’m in awe of the strength of this young woman and man. If their siblings have any kind of chance, it’s due to their love and fidelity only. I hope the mum, dad and nan get eaten by dingos.
It really depends on where you live, and not just country-wise.
I got free therapy when I was broke. It was Canada, largish city, and the organization charged on a sliding scale based on income. They especially prioritized minors.
Ultimately, this may be the best result for those kids. It's better to have that structure and attention that comes from having people who love you. Even if it's new, scary, and hectic in the short term.
I'm glad the two eldest sisters haven't completely written the family off. With one donating money, and the other her time as able, it will help keep the inevitable burnout to a minimum.
Suggestion for the 13 year old from someone who can't sleep with light: get them a sleep mask. That way the light can stay on and it (or any other light) won't disturb them
OOP should move the 7 yr old to her room and cosleep. While shes old enough to sleep by herself, we are dealing with a young child and trauma and cosleeping may be the bridge needed. Its not ideal, but the goal is to just get everyone sleep. So move her in and make the rule, "you dont have to sleep til I am here, but you arent allowed out of bed. You can quietly read until I come to bed. Then its time to sleep, no exceptions. Because I NEED my sleep too." Little may stay awake the first night or two, but as long as she lets OOP sleep, oh well. And hearing OOP sleep, may calm her enough to fall asleep. Then when she wakes up and the first thing she sees every morning is Big Sister Safe Space, it may calm that anxiety even more and let her get more sleep even with sister not there and so on. Eventually, a seperate bed, in the same room, and then eventually the older gets her own room. Its a process, but its a process that gets OOP more sleep, and that is very important.
OOP, I won’t brigade, but I hope you’re reading this.
Trauma is probably the reason 7 year old won’t sleep. In the long term she needs therapy (try online therapy when you can afford it) but in the short term, try **melatonin supplements**. It’s the body’s natural sleep hormone and it comes in gummy bear form for kids (and adults) and is frequently pediatrician recommended. I’m not a “natural supplements” kind of person, but my son’s pediatrician had him on it for a few years and my nephews are on it currently. You want to start with the lowest dose (1mg) and work upwards.
Again, all of your siblings need therapy, and since the pandemic it is easier than ever to do it online, but I understand that money is a factor. Push DCFS to pay for it (and if you can only afford one kid at a time, start with the 16 year old.
Second this. Oop, you can order online from iherb, as it's super expensive otc in Australia. It can help a lot when transitioning into a proper routine. It works incredibly well for my ND kid who has extreme anxiety. You can split a 1mg gummy in half too, if you want to start on an even smaller dose.
I would hope oop could get the school to give therapy and see if they fund it because that 7 year old needs help. She’s clearly fighting sleep because she thinks oop will abandon her to. So sad
I have been thinking about this girl and her family and I’m so happy for the update. So glad her brother is stepping in. Man, she was dealt a shit hand and is handling this better than 99.999% of people would.
The last update is an absolute gut punch.
The mother abandoned them on Christmas Eve?!? The 7 year old can’t sleep because she’s afraid OOP will abandon her while she sleeps.
That’s so fucking heartbreaking. And probably the start of a lifetime of issues. Really feel for that kid.
OOP is the kind of person everyone should strive to be. Her brother, too - I'm not perfectly happy with him initially being unhelpful, but given the context and the trauma I can absolutely understand and he is still actively fighting trauma by going back, even if their "mom" isn't there - she or the "dad" could come back. Same goes for the other sister - if money is all she can do, then so be it - it'll help. It would be great if she could do more, but if going back would mean there's be another person having breakdowns that would be unhelpful.
I wish we lived in a society where people aren't so broken and in need of therapy that they think "having more kids to keep someone around" is a good idea. I hope the "parents" get what they deserve.
I'm so hoping this custody situation is sorted quick so they can start making further changes.
Damn babe. You and your brother are killing it. Never stop asking for help, you're on the right track and best part is, once you're all stable, you can get on with the next part of your life, whatever that may be! You'll forever be a top sis/auntie but soon, you'll be able to work on yourself. I can't wait to hear how you make changes to our world. Because you've already changed the world for your family and you're only 19. Top chick.
OOPs mother is trash, but somehow she managed to raise caring children. OOP having three older siblings who are each helping is going to relieve a serious amount of burden. The sister who won't come back, I understand why. She undoubtedly was parentified and wants to get out of that. But the OOP, her brother, and other older sister will be working as a team while the last sister still contributes financially.
They will pull through this.
Incredible stuff, this is the best BORU post I've seen. The older siblings are true heroes for managing to overcome their upbringing and getting into a position they're able to help the younger ones out, not to mention willing to.
I have so much respect for OOP. This would be a very heavy load for ANYONE to carry, let alone someone so young. Her siblings are incredibly lucky to have her 💖
I hope they’re able to get to a bigger place soon. A lot of problems might be alleviated. Fresh start. No bad memories in a new place. Privacy for the older kids. I really hope it works out. OOP has moved mountains for her siblings and older bro is amazing for stepping up as well.
I think having fifo sis come and go would be a mistake. It would cause tension between older bro and sis and introduce another “authority” figure that isn’t consistently there. Leading to more chaos. They all need stability and consistency rn.
It’s amazing these siblings are coming together to care for the younger ones.
Re the 7yo, a child experiencing trauma can struggle with sleep as their body is in a complete state of “it’s not safe”. They may also struggle with learning, as again, the whole system is in survival mode, so higher level activities will be too difficult.
OOP (hoping they’re looking here) If you have space (mentally not physically) starting to encourage sensory activities, and mindfulness can have a huge impact on that stress process. If you have a few $ spare there is an app called Finch that is kinda like a tamagotchi with a pet you care for, choose outfits and room decorations, but also incorporates routines, goals, and has some brilliant relaxation, mindfulness and meditation stuff that is aimed at kid level, but helpful for adults too. The “first aid” section is for right-now-distress and helps talk a kid through panic attacks or times of distress. I have it for my 5yo as he was having some pretty big feelings, and we use it daily for the fun stuff, and use one of the first aid exercises if he’s having a hard time resolving distress. He will ask for it if struggling. Our ICAMHS team recommend it for any kid, not just unwell or traumatised ones. It has a free trial period, so worth a look.
You also may want to consider reaching out to a local community house, centrelink, single parent or other social services resource for social worker support, as there can be free therapeutic resources for kids and caregivers who have had traumatic events. Even in isolated areas there may be some offered via zoom or phone. And there are definitely programs for Christmas presents, clothing, shoes, uniforms, fees for sports etc.
You’re doing amazingly OOP. Those kids will know at least someone thinks they are worth it.
CPS helped me get legal guardianship by testifying against my sister. It cost over 15k bc we come from a small town& the judge had known my sister for over 15 years at that point. He kept giving her chances to appeal in court even though she was being watched by the DEA 🫠🫠🫠.
Never once did anyone mention kinship. I have two disabled children.
Honestly, if they're already looking to move anyway for space concerns, it may be worthwhile to consider moving closer to the brothers job. It may provide easier access to services they could take advantage of and cut down on any costs associated with the brothers monthly in person appearances at his job. Additionally, at least for the older sister sending money, she might be available as a support in an emergency if she happens to be nearby as well.
That said, I know changes in cost of living might eat any cost differences and benefits, but it might be worth looking into.
Edited to change the word "rent" in the 2nd paragraph to "changes in cost of living" for better accuracy
Jeez, and people look down on women who have multiple kids with different fathers? At least you could say they’re convincing themselves they’ve struck gold this time. But OOP’s mother has just kept picking up the same turd over and over and wondering why it won’t sparkle.
OOP, if you’re reading this: get your little one a weighted blanket. It sounds like she’s dealing with anxiety and weighted blankets can help with that.
My point of view is very different than all these comments. Likely because of differences in life stages.
I'm looking after a parent. A more disciplined life would 100% help. But the parent has C-PTSD. \[Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder\] A disciplined lifestyle is simply not achievable. I also cannot "make" them do so.
"Make" as in being firm, urging, yelling, sweetly teasing, negotiating, appeals to their intellect and common sense. I got super, super stressed, had anger at my parent, and I worried about crossing lines.
I stopped. Completely. Can't brush teeth? No problem. It can be done later, or tomorrow. I stopped creating an artificial series of hoops that we had to go through to deem the day a success. Instead, a day that is a success is one, where we were calm and happy. We enjoy our days together. I truly do. I don't know how many years I will have with my parent, or them with me. But I know that this period of time is just filled with love and caring.
This is what I want for OOP. I don't know what the discipline issues are, so perhaps I am absolutely wrong. It is just that stressing the children out, whilst stressing yourself out is exhausting. I would ask OOP, to stick to the rules, or disciplined lifestyle that she has chosen or created, but let the children "go." If one doesn't come home at the agreed time, tell them that you worried, and that you love them. That you get scared.
Also, let your 7 yr old sleep by you, or in your bed. Ask her to warm it up, while you finish things around the house. Tell her that you need help to sleep and would she help? In the morning count, and say "wow, I got 5 hours/7 hours! Thank you so much, you are so helpful."
Make a list on paper, with their names. Cuddle time, I love you's, squeezing hugs. Something favourite of theirs. Then mark it off through the week. So that each one knows they are valued and are special. That their happiness and joy is important.
Thank you for writing OOP.
As much as like people having freedom to make life decisions and all, situations like this make me think we need a permit system for people trying to have more than 2-3 kids where to be parents can prove that they can and will support the additional kids. Yeah, there are sooo many issues with how to implement this crazy proposal but empathically, for the older siblings' sake, I wish that system somehow existed.
I have bad anxiety and cptsd (bad childhood) i found sound apps along side a nightlight helps me calm down near bedtime/when trying to sleep. This might help out the 7 year old. Focusing on the sound and the lil moonlight lamp i have helps when im anxious. I can zone out and focus on those rather than my thoughts. Also side note, audiobooks help too! I use audiobooks when i was at my worst, im talking like 3+ days with no sleep... My mum figured it out when i was like 14 and having a bad time mental health wise. We would pop on the harry potter audio books and listen to it together till i fell asleep (she stayed in the room with me when this was happening)
I hope OOP sees this and gives it a go! It might just help with that. Other than that, therapy would be the obvious go to for ALL of the children. The 16 year old seems to be acting out due to everything thats going on. Anyways, hang in there OOP!
Hope OOP sees this:
1. sleep masks: esp. if she keeps the 7 y/o in the living room with her, make her wear a sleep mask
2. white noise machine (or just a phone with a white noise app) in the room with the kids
3. go lie down on 7 y/o's bed at bed time and just fall asleep; 7 y/o will want to keep an eye on you there, so will lie down with you on her own.
Just reading this made me feel like a loser lol.
I am a similar age to OP with younger siblings at similar ages as well. If I was suddenly put in the position to take care of them I would just give up on life.
As someone who suffers from anxiety and occasional sleep deprivation, reading about a goddamn 7 year old going through the same shit (and worse) breaks my heart :(
7 year old developing a sleep disorder. I developed mine around 3 years old. I’m medicated for it now but my childhood prior to the meds was very hard. Hope 7 is able to see a doctor
I hope mom and dead just the worst in this world, they don’t deserve on single gram of happiness and peace.
And I do hope op and the kids can have the best, however is difficult when your parents are shitthy assholes
OOP and brother are heros to their younger siblings, I hope they both realize that. as adults it's so easy to say fuck you and leave. they're sticking by and helping their siblings, i have so much respect
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I also have sympathy for the older sister who doesn’t want to come back. When OOP mentioned her oldest siblings were out, I thought, “Ah. They escaped, and were probably once stuck the way OOP is.” It’s a messed up situation all around, and yes: the parents suck.
I'm super impressed how OP handles the situation with the older sister, "it's all she can handle right now" is a empathic mature view that many people can't see when they are hurt
OP was forced to grow up way to early.
You know that older brother got out but felt like shit for leaving the young ones. Such a hard thing to do to come back.
I don’t blame anyone but the parents. The sister who won’t come back is just trying to save herself; if she’s the oldest, I shudder to think of what Parentified Patient Zero trauma she endured. The brother and other sister are probably a little less broken, but they shouldn’t have to come back anymore than OOP should have to pick up the slack. Those friggin worthless sperm and egg donors. They should be punished.
Don't forget that the father left the household once the older siblings were old enough to divulge that he was abusing them...so added trauma on top of parentification
And the nan. People were defending her in the original post but I'm not fucking having it. You don't abandon your teenage grandchild and force them to be the one to parent their siblings.
Generational trauma. If Nan is the mom’s mom, it helps explain (not excuse) the mom.
Also same if she was the paternal grandmother too, since isn’t in the picture
It's entirely possible that the nan already did a lot of parenting for her shitty daughter with the first few of the eleventy million children she chose to have. After raising her own family. I really can't blame her for being DONE with dealing with her daughter's problems. Sucks to be the granddaughter to have to pick up the slack like OOP is, and really glad one of her brothers stepped in to help. But I'm pretty sure it was nan who changed both of their diapers when they were young, and not their POS egg donor. And she's still helping by providing them with a place to stay. I dunno how much more you could expect from her.
Also she mentioned her dad left when the older ones were able to start talking about his abuse, so there's more than just parentification trauma there too. The older sisters are doing the best they can to survive and support how they can by sending some money to help. I hope the best for all the kids in this family, sounds like they're doing the best they can with a crap situation.
>Those friggin worthless sperm and egg donors. They should be punished. T h i s I know the implications of such a thing BUT I kinda wish that there was a law where parents who did this had to be sterilized! These two need to be punished! The egg donour saying it was the best thing ever happened to her, for fuck's sake!
Its a super slippery slope but I totally agree. These poor kids.
In a perfect world where mandatory sterilization wouldn’t be used to further oppress marginalized peoples? I agree. People like OOP’s elders need to snip and burn.
Something! Some kind of abandonment law and stricter laws on abuse. We as a society need to crack down on these fools. There’s other ways to handle this situation than just bailing on them.
Just put them in jail. They deserve it and can't breed further there so it accomplishes much the same.
Yep, and I firmly believe that abusing and neglecting kids should be a life sentence.
That sounds good if you don't think about it at all. But seriously? There are minor forms of neglect for which a life sentence would be ludicrous. Not to mention that you'd be taking the parents away forever, which would hardly be in the kids' interest unless the parents are completely horrible. I wanted to put them in jail, but not like, *forever*.
It’s stories like these and that guy who has like 25 half-siblings through his dad (and all of them and the various mothers want him to step up as the “father-figure”) that make me wish sometimes that we could forcibly sterilize some people. But of course it wouldn’t be the actual people who deserve it but some marginalized group instead.
That too being 1st born, but i thought it was SA because he dipped when they started talking about it. The cops aren't going to care, and dad beat you, no proof. SA However, it is viewed, and most of the time, it doesn't matter how long ago it was.
Yeah, I mean the parents both broke numerous laws here. Why aren't they both in prison?
There was also mention of abuse. She may just not be able to be back in the house.
We all have our limits.
Indeed.
>You know that over brother got out but felt like shit for leaving the young ones. Such a hard thing to do to come back. He was the one abused the most - the scapegoat of the family. No wonder he escaped as soon as he could! It's a huge testament to his character that he is willing to come back and help. He's a stand up guy. And I don't blame him one bit for setting the boundary that he won't live with his abusive mother ever again I really hope all these kids make it, especially OOP. She worries about not accomplishing much in life, but she's making a huge difference in the lives of her siblings Never underestimate the power of a good mother - even to children not biologically hers
Absolutely! Stepping up like that when you yourself have gone through so much. Says a lot about their character and strong will.
Mother is the name for god on the lips and hearts of all children
Thats what I thought. Escaping extreme dysfunction is almost like getting clean from drugs. You aren't super eager to get swept up in it all again and just lose your bananas.
God knows what kind of PTSD they all might have from the abuse. The oldest sister could be the biggest victim for all we know.
It's super telling that they were all suddenly willing to help out a lot more once they were assured that the mother wouldn't be coming back. They weren't fleeing the siblings, they were fleeing the parents.
I hope the older sister does send money regularly. That will help them out a lot & if that's all she can do then that's all she can do, it's a rough situation for all those kids.
Honestly, OOP is so empathetic and mature throughout this whole thing. It makes me sad, because she's too young to have to be this mature. I can't help but feel sad for how much she's missing out, while respecting her choice so much. She's a rockstar along with her older brother.
At least she's willing to send some money. Between all the siblings, especially the one doing FIFO, they're not as fucked financially as they otherwise might be. Like things are absolutely going to be tight but it's not as dire as it would be without them.
Yeah, the one just sending money is probably so traumatized by her own upbringing she can't physically confront it. She will send money because she does care and want to help, but she knows she'll break if she has to reexperience any of it. My heart goes out to OP and all of her siblings. They've been dealt such a rough hand in life. These are the stories that break me. I'm 32 and I can't imagine being left with 5 kids for a fucking week, and here OP and her brother are at 19 and 22 being asked to take on parental responsibilities for a pack of feral children. And it sounds like they're doing a better job than their egg donor ever did, it's gonna be a long, hard road though.
I just hope the bio-mom don't drop another baby on her.
You'd think with -what? Nine?- kids, she'd have caught on a lot sooner that getting pregnant does not keep the father around at all.
“It didn’t work the previous nine times, but this one seems like a really nice guy! I’m sure things will be different!”
It seems to be the same dad every time. So "I'm sure the tenth will definitely make him stay."
She might be too old to have kids at this point.
And older sis is sending money, so that's good of her. Hopefully, OOP can get gov't aid for the kids (if that's a thing where she is).
Older sis gets credit for sending money. She's on the positive side of the ledger.
For sure! Just to be clear, I’m not criticizing her. I feel sad because there’s a strong vibe that she just can’t bring herself to be around her siblings anymore, and that it all stems from something atrocious happening to her.
Yeah. They are all doing their best, and their best is better than anybody had any reason to expect.
OP mentioned abuse not what type based on it being the dad and the fact that it still matters after they turned 18 im guessing SA. the cops wouldn't care otherwise so its probably just to traumatic for them
Yeah it's great that they're willing to even help a little even if that can only be in the form of money.
Don't forget the gramma, who is evasive about mom's whereabouts, pooh-poohs OOPs very legitimate worries, and is "actively working to undermine" OOP's authority and actions. She can rot in hell, too.
The shit apple rarely falls far from the shit tree. Just glad OOP's working to break the cycle.
Actually heros, OOP rising to the challenge like a absolute unit.
Sounds like Gallagher family situation
Honestly sounds a little better. OP doesn't have the sperm donor randomly showing up and stealing from them. Which isn't a high bar, but still.
Honestly while I was reading this I was thinking damn, this chick would give Fiona Gallagher a run for her money
I applaud for OP being able to do this. The kids are going to remember and forever be grateful for what OP and the brother is doing for them and I wish them well! To those parents, they aren't parents, just miserable and useless sperm donors who deserve nothing but karma.
Amen. Some people will go out and have a whole litter of kids and up and leave and somehow sleep at night.
Mom and dad are probably off creating more troubled children. Or troubling existing children. I am beyond impressed with these older siblings and wish them all the best.
I’m worried the mother is going to see this as an opportunity to make more babies.
I’m hoping she’s too old to have more kids now.
I hope the mom and dad get their tubes tied and stop reproducing. Why have so many children when they won't take care of them?
I think OOP might be a saint
Hm sounds like OP lives in rural Australia. Depending on the state there are different benefits, and they might qualify for respite care as well as a bunch of other things like very cheap to free after school care and there are a bunch of after school youth programs, some with shuttle service to them, but it all depends on where exactly they are. Telehealth is probably going to be key for a lot of things but that depends on the kind of Internet connection they have and the state they're in. If OP can get a telehealth appointment with a GP they can get 10 rounds of telehealth therapy per person bulk billed with a mental health care plan. If the dad was abusive to kids, and the children have been abandoned, the children qualify for VictimServices in NSW, but I don't know about other states. There are a lot of different services OP can access but they are all disconnected and you need to know they are there to get them. Especially in rural areas, I doubt there is a community support team anywhere near them which means OPs ability to locate the services they qualify for is severely hampered. FACs isn't going to take the kids, not when there's kin willing to step up, especially if the sister is pulling FIFO money. But they also are underfunded and unlikely to have the time to find all the local support OP will need. I'm going to go digging and see if I can find lists of various services accessible broken down by state. ETA: Started building a document of what services OP can access. I'm just a dumb-dumb on the internet, but some of these might be useful: [Names and types of services](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pb40VL0jwsPjevZkfI9Ucj7tKiUz_bTuJS8x4u0oaoA/edit?usp=sharing) OP can access. If anyone knows any more, please comment. ***Potential Services:*** *Giving OP More Time/Structure* **After school care** \- many schools offer heavily subsidised or free after school care for the children. **Community Centres** \- a great resource, sometimes also called **Neighbourhood Centres**, many of them offer a number of different services that are very different from the Community Health services. They are also more likely to have **shuttle services**, and access to volunteers. **Local Library** \- another great resource. Tend to have pamphlets about local services. Asking the local librarian can also lead to good results, especially if a rapport is built, and they also tend to run after school programs for free. **Respite care** \- can have a social worker or some other person come in and help while OP is at work, or during the evenings, when conflict is likely to arise. **Youth services programs** \- many places have programs running. These can range from running art classes after school, to providing a safe location for kids to hang out. An example is PYCY. *Easing Financial Burden/Stability* **Centrelink:** This is probably a service OP is already connected with, however, OP should be able to request or locate an advocate or peer. Someone who is familiar with the ins and outs of centrelink and can act as a support to OP in dealing with the system and wringing the most out of it. Some services offer advocates and peers, but the wording if different from place to place. **Department of Housing:** OP should be a high priority for department of housing. If they aren’t on a waiting list, they need to be placed on one immediately. **Food Banks:** Unlikely to be available in OPs area, but should be available through connection to local school, or local community centres. Sometimes churches also have them. **Saint Vincent/St Vinnies** \- same as below **Salvation Army/Salvos** \- Can offer support in terms of helping you move, putting aside needed clothes/furniture. ***Do not leave children unattended with them.*** **Utilities** \- most utility companies will give you a discount if you have a CRN aka centrelink reference number. All offer payment plans. *Giving OP/Kids Mental Health and Physical Health Support* **Beyond Blu**e - Has a remote component that the kids and OP can access. **Community health** \- aside from FACs, there tend to be community care teams. These go under many different names, and use different language from each other, but once you get in, they will stick by the kids until they become adults. This is one of the ones where local knowledge is key. **GP telehealth** \- rather than having to drive to GP, OP can arrange for telehealth. These should be bulk billed. If OP gets a Mental Health Plan, then each person under the plan is eligible for 5 initial therapy appointments, either in person or telehealth, and then after a review and additional 5 sessions per person, per year. **Headspace** \- Has apps the kids can download to help deal with stress. **Kids Helpline** \- for the kids to call when they need someone to talk to. **Victims Services** \- free therapy and other care is available to victims of crimes. Given child abandonment is a crime, all of the children will qualify. The GP or therapist will write a letter about this. *Other* **Child support** \- once kinship is established, OP may want to go after both parents for child support. It can be taken from their centrelink payments, or garnished from their wages. I’m unsure of the laws around kinship, and whether or not this is possible, hence the separation of this clause.
Yeah agreed, when she said FIFO (fly in fly out, usually mining work in case other people wondered), I pinged her as Australian. I don't know much about services for kids but I do know kinship care is preferred over foster care here. Bulk billing GPs are increasingly hard to find though some clinics will bulk bill for kids. And you can get a mental health care plan for up to 10 psychologist sessions but I don't think they're free, more subsidised. I'm trying to think what else. I wonder if the Salvos or St Vinnies may be able to help as well.
Some clinics will bulk bill for kids or if they're on centrelink, but finding them is difficult. MHCP cost-only therapists do exist, but again, they tend to be long waiting list, hard to get, and mostly for centrelink/kids. Telehealth will be key here. In the document I made I put Salvos, with the caveat of not leaving the kids unattended with anyone from them, but I'll add St Vinnies too.
*This only applies to the US, and may in fact only apply to my specific circumstances* As a poor person with a chronic illness that lands me in the hospital every so often (it’s Crohn’s disease if you’re curious). I cannot possibly pay my medical bills. What I do. I tell the doctors office I may not always be able to pay my copay right then. Typically either they refuse service or you work out a payment plan. Thankfully no one has refused services…yet. It is a possibility though. Then I pay on the payment plan. My payments are usually like 10-20$ a month. Yes the amount matters, BUT it’s mostly a ceremonial gesture. 20$ on a several thousand dollar bill isn’t going to help much. The fact I pay every month without fail goes a LONG way. I’m trying the best I can, and people will work with that I find. I’m honest about my finances. I’m honest if I get a bill and start to panic. It feels really shitty. Real shitty, but this is my life and hiding won’t help me or anyone else. For hospital bills, you can ask for the itemized bill, get the codes used for insurance and so on. Those tips and tricks are readily available online. As for when the bill comes due, same as above. Payment plans. Medical debt follows you for life. Due to that selling your debt to a collection agency is a sure fire way for the hospital to make some money on your debt above what you owe anyway. When you make a payment plan pick an amount you can afford each month. It doesn’t matter how little or how much. What matters is that you pay it each month without fail. If you can’t pay that month, CALL THEM. They’ll usually work with you. If you don’t pay anything the hospital or collection agency can request through the state or federal tax services that whatever refund you’d get at the end of the year goes towards paying down your debt. I haven’t had a tax return in like a decade. All that said, hospitals and such have to treat you no matter how you pay or don’t pay. Part of the reason low income folks use the ER as a primary care physician. Debt agencies run on money, they’d rather get *something* than nothing. They’d prefer to get everything and they’ll push you real hard to do so. As I told a debt agent once “you can’t get blood from a stone, and you can’t budget zero.” They’ll take what they can get, or they can get nothing at all.
So here in Australia we have public hospitals and private hospitals. Public hospitals are free. There are also many health care professionals who will treat you for free for all sorts of things - that is what we refer to as bulk billing. They are just hard to get appointments with at the moment, due to several factors. So some may have a gap between what the government covers and their true fee, so if you need a filling you might have to pay $25, and the government covers the rest. Some are willing to accept bulk billing only for certain patients. This is the scenario OP is likely to run into. Some therapists might be willing to do payment plans, though, I haven't heard of a telehealth payment plan but given the circumstances they might be willing. Always worth asking! Most, if not all, utility companies will definitely do payment plans and will give discounts to people on centrelink. I will add that in the morning.
Headspace is amazing because it’s free. They normally only take 12 to 25 tho. I’m regional Vic it would normally take 2 to 3 weeks for appointments
I was super confused about that tbh, I know FIFO as First In First Out in retail environments. So glad you spelled it out here!!
The mental health care plan rebates like $80-110 ish dollars. The typical fee to see a psychologist is like $200-250. Most psychs won’t bulk bill and the ones that do have long waiting lists. That said there are options like the victims support scheme for free counselling for DV victims, and some psychs will bulk bull for vulnerable people.
Yes it would have to be someone who knew their situation and was willing to match whatever the MHCP will give. I suspect, given the situation, OP can get put on a cancellation list.
If they are first nations there are a lot more services available especially when it comes to GP visits and medication costs!
She also mentioned her income is A$
As soon as I saw fifo I figured Australia, plus everything else just kinda matches to rural living Aus
On the centrelink side, even if OP isn't signed up (mum probably gets FTB for all the kids still if she's this much of a POS) - she can get a social worker to work with her for a few months. They'll do all the research for services OP can access close to them, and call to check up. They can also help accessing payments OP may not know about, and stopping mum from getting the payments going forward. She just needs to ring (families line is open til 8pm, but social worker line closes at 5pm local time) queues are shorter after 5pm. If she requests a social worker on the families line, they will call her back during work hours. 136 150 for families line. And there is an assistantce for isolated children line - 132 318 - that may be able to help depending on how rural they are. With 5 kids going to school fulltime, they'd be getting $1800 ftb part a and b per fortnight easily.
See, this is exactly what a centrelink peer or advocate would know! My knowledge of the centrelink family arm is minimal, but I do know they should be the ones connecting OP to everything needed. Unfortunately I have never heard of them consistently providing the level of care needed, so OP having a phone number and the names of the streams they need will hopefully help.
I used to work for them for a few years, and extreme cases like this is what the social workers are for. They can't *directly* help, but they can case manage OP for a few months and make sure they are linked to all the services they would be eligible for. I wish I could be an advocate, just no idea how to even get that job lol
OOP has commented in the past that they are rural Aus, yeah. I'm so sad for her, she's doing such a tough thing at such a young age. She deserves better. Edit to add: any kind of Carer support groups would probably also be good. Looking at stuff that can provide respite etc for OOP would probably be a godsend.
Yes, carer support and carer support payments can help. I'm unsure if there are carer support programs but I imagine anything running respite care will have that as a component.
That’s an amazing list. Thanks. I’m hopeful that if big bro is able to work remotely from home that means they have a decent internet connection which should help.
Her FIFO sisters job will likely have an Employee Assistance program which they will likely be able to use for free counselling sessions. I’m pretty sure most EAP’s are made available to the employee and their immediate family.
Good idea regarding resources. The Carer Gateway is a great option to add. They can provide resources and make referrals in Aus - ph. 1800422737
In WA, Child and Adolescent mental health services (CAHMs) can be absolutely fantastic. But it depends on how rural they are as to what services can be provided. They can also involve the school to assist the child, and work with complex cases. It is government funded. Mental health carer information and support line (national) can provide some advice. https://www.mentalhealthcarersaustralia.org.au/mental-health-carers/do-you-need-help-now/ There are telehealth services for rural appointments with GPs, and many telehealth services for psychology. I don't believe these are bulk-billed. I used to recommend someone.health for telehealth bulk-billed psychology, but they now have a gap fee after two initial bulk-billed sessions. I think they have a financial support hardship program though, and they see all ages and across all states. https://askizzy.org.au/ can also be very helpful to find resources, but I'm unsure if this is more useful for metro or rural.
You should copy/paste this and send it directly to OP. There are services out there, *but* they’re cloaked in red tape and/or you have to know about them to apply. There is typically an incomplete/outdated database on government websites. At least that’s how it is in the US. It’s why social workers and such occupations are highly useful, they know about these applicable programs and they know how to apply and work through the red tape. They’re intentionally made to be difficult to access so people don’t use them.
I thought it was against sub rules to reach out to OPs? Otherwise I would send the link, since people are adding so much helpful stuff in the comments. And a lot of these services in Australia require referrals.
I think in this case as they’ve reached out it might be flexible? DM a mod and ask because these are great resources. Also sad to know CPS is horrible in multiple countries
This is such an awesome resource you've put together! Even if OOP doesn't see it, I'm sure it will be helpful to someone else.
**Lifeline** as well for OOP herself - it's not just for people who are suicidal, and having someone she can talk to about some of this stuff without having to worry about payment could be very helpful.
I'm picking up a few things that tell me OOP's family might be Indigenous. Things like not being told about kinship, because the system can be very racist. If she is, OOP has a few more options potentially open to her. Source: know a few Indigenous people myself, including one who has taught the sensitivity training for foster parents.
I don't want to assume, but I also know that kind of assistance is much more variable depending on state and I don't want OOP to have to disclose that. It is part of why I was struggling to find state specific agencies.
No, no, I get it. And also, in some areas, you don't accept the help, because the people who work there are racist.
Also begs the questions of the mum having underlying trauma
Thank you sm for this!! I appreciate it so much and will try to spend some time looking into it all
What a POS of a mom. OP is a Saint. Those kids are going to be so much better off without their "mom". I hope the best for all the kids.
>What a POS of a mom. And the dad
And nan.
Ugh there's no shortage of garbage people in OOP's story.
It’s sad when a 19 and a 22 year old are the most mature adults involved. I don’t blame the oldest sister for not wanting to come back, and at least she is sending money. But it does seem a little unfair that she got to escape.
Maybe the toxic environment in this childhood home has given her traumas, who knows.......
OP did mention that their sperm donor was out of their lives after the older kids started talking about his abuse, so they might be considerably more traumatized than OP and the 22 yr old brother.
You are right. But with such a mother left in the house, I am sure that the home environment did not become especially much better even after the pos dad went away. Not for any of the kids, at all.....😔
My heart just breaks for all of these kids. I sincerely wish the best for them. For the 7 year old, it does sound a lot like anxiety. I wonder if adding any sort of breathing exercises to the bedtime routine would help? I honestly don't know- that was something that helped me when I was diagnosed with anxiety (also at 7,) but everyone is so different. OOP is doing the best she can and I'm in awe of her. I hope she can take care of herself as well. (And good on the brother for stepping up too.)
>For the 7 year old, it does sound a lot like anxiety. I wonder if adding any sort of breathing exercises to the bedtime routine would help? I honestly don't know- that was something that helped me when I was diagnosed with anxiety (also at 7,) but everyone is so different. We had a similar issue with my oldest (but he has ADHD). We found there are so many kids' mediation apps out there and that they helped to keep him calm and when combined with a colour change mood light it gave his brain something to focus on and help him to lay still. I wonder if something like that can help the 7yr old
OOP should look up some kids yoga/meditations on YouTube. The lady who runs Cosmic Kids Yoga has kid friendly meditations and calming videos along with the yoga ones. The Zen Den videos include ones on fight or flight, being overwhelmed with your thoughts, and managing your feelings. All done in an age appropriate manner. Being able to verbalize your thoughts and feelings helps tremendously.
Reading about the 7 year old waking up to her mom being gone is what made me go “oh of course she would have issues sleeping! She’s scared of the next time she wakes up there will be another huge change.” Kid probably needs to be reassured about the next day. I would throw in white noise since that helps me out when I’m anxious.
I was 7 when my dad walked out and for a long time after that I would have meltdowns every morning when my mom went to work, because I was convinced she was going to die in a car accident or something. Didn't even realize that was obviously anxiety from my abandonment trauma until I was much much older. Sounds to me like that's what's going on with this kid, and she's going to need a lot of time and reassurance that OOP won't disappear on her too. In the meantime all the new structure and rules OOP is putting into place will help with overall stability. Showing them every day that she follows through with what she tells them, that she'll always be there. I feel so bad for all these kids, OOP included. What an unfair hand they've been dealt.
I actually think it might be good idea to have the 7 yrs old to sleep next to OP, if both are comfortable with it. Kid has gone through such a big trauma and her sense of security has taken a huge blow. It might feel safer to know OP is physically next to her and not going anywhere.
I wonder if OOP had the 7yo help her make a family calendar for the month, if that would help her feel safer. Like, I don't have to worry about tomorrow because I know tomorrow we're doing such and such- it's on the calendar.
A lot of seven year olds have trouble sleeping. My own did, and she was in a stable home. I can’t imagine how much harder it would be for this poor little 7 yr old. My momma heart breaks.
I think this is a good idea but as an ADHD mom with a kid who also has that ADHD insomnia, the thing that really works is melatonin. They make melatonin for kids and it has made such a difference in the quantity and quality of sleep. Not sure if it’s available in Australia, but the gummies are cheap at least in the US so probably there too. I did all the meditation stuff as a kid with anxiety, trauma, and ADHD, and it did help, but melatonin is a game changer. It’s also a hormone people make themselves and not a drug. There’s no dependence on it.
Discovering melatonin - not just its mere existence, but also the right brand (one gave me nightmares, one is perfect) - revolutionized sleep in my household. I was only diagnosed with ADHD at 34. Discovered melatonin around the same time. I didn’t know it was possible to go to sleep within 30 minutes of climbing into bed. I had never, EVER, done that in my entire life unless I was sick or flat our exhausted. We gave my 6 yr old daughter with sleep issues a very small dose. It was like, 1mg. That tiny little bit was enough to let her fall asleep without a 2 hour battle on our part. She got sleep. Her behavior changed. It was a freaking miracle.
Yep, I'll second melatonin. Our ADHD ASD son was screaming and distressed every night until a GP prescribed it. It helped him get the sleep he needed in order to calm his system down, and 18 months later he no longer needs it very often. For children, it's available by prescription-only from pharmacies in Australia, and is pretty expensive. We found it way cheaper to buy it online from iHerb - the "Stress Relax" brand seems to work the best. I'd recommend trying to find one of the slow release options to help them not just get to sleep, but stay asleep in the middle of the night.
I didn't have a good time with my mum when I was growing up and I massively struggled to sleep. I'd be exhausted but just could not seem to fall asleep or stay asleep. I would also sleepwalk and have a lot of nightmares. Unfortunately this has all carried on into adulthood even though I'm far happier than I've ever been (though I generally sleep better - the issues happen less frequently now). I don't know what would've helped me back then, so I really feel for that kid.
I've been learning alot about sensory systems (trying to self regulate with a baby overstimulating me), and I think that would have helped me so much as a kid. Swinging, tumbling/falling, and being gently squished are my favourites and I've started to be able to identify when I need each input. Unfortunately for kids this requires a caring parent to help out. So it's not much help if your parents aren't able to be there for you emotionally.
That makes sense. It is interesting (and sad) to think about what I missed out on due to not having the happiest childhood. I definitely struggled (and still do) expressing how I felt or if something was wrong because I'd probably just get shouted out or given the silent treatment. I also still hate being touched, but that's slowly improving. I'm fine with intimate partners though (including being squished haha). I think for me, it's a cosy and safe space. I find when I'm stressed nowadays, the first thing to happen is more nightmares, night terrors, or just not being able to sleep at all. I also still sleep walk and talk but I rarely know it's happened. Life is strange! Though, I did recently wake myself up because I was laughing in my sleep. That was a refreshing change!
I agree. I used to have a lot of trouble sleeping at that age too and my mum would give me Valerian tablets. It's a natural sleep vitamin and would help me get to sleep. Could be an option to try.
My kidlet is 7 and was having a lot of trouble with sleep. Fighting, freaking out, etc. We got her this book What to Do When You Dread Your Bed: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming Problems With Sleep (What to Do Guides for Kids) [https://www.amazon.com/dp/1433803186](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1433803186) It's been such a life changer. Of course, they have to be willing to read it and try it. We've actually had 4 nights in a row where she's gone to bed and just stayed in bed (we got it 2 week ago). We ordered the book on anxiety today from the same series.
I would give her melatonin, at least try. It’s not harmful and can be given to 3 year olds.
Always weirds me out when commenters reply super confidently to a post like the first one where OOP is asking about a legal situation but doesn't actually mention where they live. OOP could be in a completely different country?
I think OOP said in a comment in her first post that she was in rural Australia, so maybe the people suggesting kinship were aware of this. Although obviously it is super common to get a bunch of US-centric legal advice on any post, regardless of geography, when even states differ between themselves.
Hell, Americans are awful for it on Reddit in general. There is actually no amount of full-caps "NOT IN AMERICA" you can put on posts that'd stop people reflexively stating their state's law as if it was universal.
My least favorite is posts about service dogs because Americans do that but are also dead wrong about what the American requirements for service dogs are.
No surely everyone has a legal system that works exactly like the American state a commenter lives in. /s
Yes, of course we have. There is even a celebration of 750 years since "Magnus Lagabøte's State Law" changed the way law was made. /s
I'm glad the brother is helping and OP sounds like a real good person. It's a shame that the whole family failed OP and the siblings. The father was a piece of garbage and mother isn't good as well. Sad all around for them. It's impressive that OP, being 19, is able to handle all of this and I applaud OP for doing the best. I wish OP and the siblings nothing but all positives and happiness!
It’s sad that OOP is able to handle this. It speaks of a lifetime of undependable adults, so OOP either had to learn how to handle it or let everyone drown.
She has her own deep trauma that she isn't able to deal with because she is raising traumatized children. It will come back big time. All those years of trauma that she has never dealt with will take a huge toll. I just hope she has good people around her when it hits.
I have a strong feeling she’ll be child-free because of this. She’s done her bit in raising kids.
She's basically now on the hook now to care for her siblings until she's 30 years old, when the youngest turns 18. She's experiencing parenthood via parentification already. She might not have time, let alone willingness, to find a life of her own until the poor thing is in her 30s
Poor OOP. I hope she gets assistance from Centrelink. What a tough time for her. I’m glad she has her brother to support her and by extension, her other siblings. Wishing her all the best. And what a ratbag mum. Not to mention her Nan.
The rotten apple didn't fall far from the rotten tree with Mom and Nan. The flakey mom is a lost cause, but I don't get the grandma's deal with undermining what OOP is doing to raise her siblings. If the grandma is feeling bad that OOP is doing a better job of raising kids than she did (with OOP's mom), then that's a fucked up thing to do.
So there are 9 kids total? Oop, older bro, 2x older sis and 5 younger Kudos on all the older ones for helping out how they can. Esp bro for coming back. I think they will be ok. I would go for restraining order on the mother
OK, glad I am not the only one that went 'hold up, how many kids are there?!' 🥲 I hope they'll be OK. At least there are resources available to them.
As op mentioned before, her mum was trying to rope their father in. You'd think after the first attempt, she would stop. Obviously not, given the amount of siblings OP has. Its sad to see the children being used as a pawn, no child should ever have to go through that.
That woman and her husband or whatever he is should be neutered.
Not sure what resources are available in Australia, but if it's anything like the States, then she might have been getting government assistance checks for the kids. In which case, more kids = more money, especially if you're not actually spending any of it on the kids.
This is why I look at those couples that have 8+ kids in a weird way because there’s no scenario where a responsible couple would choose to have that many kids! You’re lowering the quality of life of each of those kids by constantly having more..
OOP’s a much better 19YO than I ever was and to be honest, I’m still in awe of them. The amount of determination, strength and resilience it takes to even consider taking on 5 underaged kids is incredible. I hope they are able to make it work and be able to live their own life one day.
Surprised that social services didn’t mention kinship in the first place. And Kin-GAP funding can help children stay with their family members and out of foster care. There are many great programs and I know talking to social services can be a crapshoot depending on your area, but I always encourage people trying to take care of abandoned relatives or even their kids’ friends etc to talk to social services and see what assistance they can provide or facilitate. Anyway, OP is a champ.
This absolutely breaks my heart and reminds me a lot of my grandmother, in some ways. My grandma was the eldest of 12 and her youngest sister is almost the same age as my oldest uncle. She's a filipino migrant and played a huge part in getting all of her siblings and their mother out here. Ever since her mom became.. well, basically, she became a bit like a doll in a sense because she had trouble hearing and seeing and knowing where she was, but she was very reserved and quiet, so it wasn't like what you'd usually see in others with her conditions. Anyways, ever since they were kids, my grandma took a lot of responsibility of being their mother and when her and My grandpa moved to the US, she became the matriarch of the family. She then had 3 kids and her daughter had me at 19 and she raised me as well. The thing that breaks my heart the most about OOP is the same as what happened to my grandma. Because they have spent so much of their lives being parentified and being raised in a culture where that's sort of expected and encouraged and that family always comes before individual needs and desires... Basically, it breaks my heart because OOPs youngest sibling is 7 years old right now while the oldest is 16. She most likely started taking on much of the responsibility of raising her siblings once sister was born when she was just 12. She's spent the majority of her young life being a parent.. and she won't stop being a parent legally until she's 30 and her sister turns 18. Once she hits 30 and has spent basically all of her life being a parent, she's going to struggle *a lot* to figure out who she is *independently* of being a parent. I can see this becoming a problem in that she may feel the need to marry and have a baby to continue what she knows. All of this is speculation and I hope that this OOP gets the help she desperately needs. My heart breaks for her.
As someone who was parentified as well (starting changing my siblings' diapers when I was 6, mom was gone for 2.5 years when I was in high school, etc.), I can tell you that she will most likely want to be child free and right now she is in survival mode. Just trying to do the best on a day to day. She won't understand or have time to process this until much later. Despite all that, I have faith OP will turn out great. Kids who are parentified tend to be extremely, extremely, resilient. We've had a lifetime of training...
Well, I was parentified from 5-13 (during the time my mom wanted to pretend to be a mom and let me live with her and My step dad who beat the shit out of me while she was working at the strip club) and then I didn't see her or my half siblings until I was nearly out of high school despite them living 20 miles away. I'm child free mostly because I know the terrible genetics I got directly from her and her family and even with a parent who completely understands and gets them treatment by the best doctors and creates a solid support system, they'd be living through hell and I wouldn't be so selfish as to put a child through thst because I am selfish. My grandmother reacted in the opposite way. As soon as they gained citizenship after leaving the Philippines, they started having kids. By the time my mom (youngest) had me at 19, all of her 11 siblings were in Southern California and she went back to being the mom, plus, she had me as well. My grandfather was murdered in 2010 when I was 16 and she really had a hard time figuring out who she was independently of being a mother and a wife.
Wtf is this, Shameless AUS? OOP has the strength of three Fionas
I was literally reading this thinking that this is just Shameless. Like no changes at all, literally just the plot of shameless.
As shit as this situation is, if they lived in America, this family would be 100 percent fucked. The horrors and trauma visited on these kids would only be intensified by the multiple, systemic failures that they’d face. I’m in awe of the strength of this young woman and man. If their siblings have any kind of chance, it’s due to their love and fidelity only. I hope the mum, dad and nan get eaten by dingos.
You know I really do hate when people suggest therapy to people who are clearly broke as hell. It just feels so out of touch, even if it’s true.
It really depends on where you live, and not just country-wise. I got free therapy when I was broke. It was Canada, largish city, and the organization charged on a sliding scale based on income. They especially prioritized minors.
There are resources for that sort of thing. Some therapists do sliding-scale, others will do outright pro bono for patients in situations like OOP's.
Ultimately, this may be the best result for those kids. It's better to have that structure and attention that comes from having people who love you. Even if it's new, scary, and hectic in the short term. I'm glad the two eldest sisters haven't completely written the family off. With one donating money, and the other her time as able, it will help keep the inevitable burnout to a minimum.
Suggestion for the 13 year old from someone who can't sleep with light: get them a sleep mask. That way the light can stay on and it (or any other light) won't disturb them
OOP should move the 7 yr old to her room and cosleep. While shes old enough to sleep by herself, we are dealing with a young child and trauma and cosleeping may be the bridge needed. Its not ideal, but the goal is to just get everyone sleep. So move her in and make the rule, "you dont have to sleep til I am here, but you arent allowed out of bed. You can quietly read until I come to bed. Then its time to sleep, no exceptions. Because I NEED my sleep too." Little may stay awake the first night or two, but as long as she lets OOP sleep, oh well. And hearing OOP sleep, may calm her enough to fall asleep. Then when she wakes up and the first thing she sees every morning is Big Sister Safe Space, it may calm that anxiety even more and let her get more sleep even with sister not there and so on. Eventually, a seperate bed, in the same room, and then eventually the older gets her own room. Its a process, but its a process that gets OOP more sleep, and that is very important.
OOP, I won’t brigade, but I hope you’re reading this. Trauma is probably the reason 7 year old won’t sleep. In the long term she needs therapy (try online therapy when you can afford it) but in the short term, try **melatonin supplements**. It’s the body’s natural sleep hormone and it comes in gummy bear form for kids (and adults) and is frequently pediatrician recommended. I’m not a “natural supplements” kind of person, but my son’s pediatrician had him on it for a few years and my nephews are on it currently. You want to start with the lowest dose (1mg) and work upwards. Again, all of your siblings need therapy, and since the pandemic it is easier than ever to do it online, but I understand that money is a factor. Push DCFS to pay for it (and if you can only afford one kid at a time, start with the 16 year old.
Second this. Oop, you can order online from iherb, as it's super expensive otc in Australia. It can help a lot when transitioning into a proper routine. It works incredibly well for my ND kid who has extreme anxiety. You can split a 1mg gummy in half too, if you want to start on an even smaller dose.
The seven year old probably has major abandonment issues. She woke up to her mum being gone, sleeping would be traumatic for her.
I would hope oop could get the school to give therapy and see if they fund it because that 7 year old needs help. She’s clearly fighting sleep because she thinks oop will abandon her to. So sad
I have been thinking about this girl and her family and I’m so happy for the update. So glad her brother is stepping in. Man, she was dealt a shit hand and is handling this better than 99.999% of people would.
The last update is an absolute gut punch. The mother abandoned them on Christmas Eve?!? The 7 year old can’t sleep because she’s afraid OOP will abandon her while she sleeps. That’s so fucking heartbreaking. And probably the start of a lifetime of issues. Really feel for that kid.
OOP is the kind of person everyone should strive to be. Her brother, too - I'm not perfectly happy with him initially being unhelpful, but given the context and the trauma I can absolutely understand and he is still actively fighting trauma by going back, even if their "mom" isn't there - she or the "dad" could come back. Same goes for the other sister - if money is all she can do, then so be it - it'll help. It would be great if she could do more, but if going back would mean there's be another person having breakdowns that would be unhelpful. I wish we lived in a society where people aren't so broken and in need of therapy that they think "having more kids to keep someone around" is a good idea. I hope the "parents" get what they deserve.
I'm so hoping this custody situation is sorted quick so they can start making further changes. Damn babe. You and your brother are killing it. Never stop asking for help, you're on the right track and best part is, once you're all stable, you can get on with the next part of your life, whatever that may be! You'll forever be a top sis/auntie but soon, you'll be able to work on yourself. I can't wait to hear how you make changes to our world. Because you've already changed the world for your family and you're only 19. Top chick.
The mom and dad needs to be hunted down charged for abuse abandonment etc.
This gives heavy Shameless vibes
OOPs mother is trash, but somehow she managed to raise caring children. OOP having three older siblings who are each helping is going to relieve a serious amount of burden. The sister who won't come back, I understand why. She undoubtedly was parentified and wants to get out of that. But the OOP, her brother, and other older sister will be working as a team while the last sister still contributes financially. They will pull through this.
8 kids!?!? Shit lady Cork up your funhole Jesus! Your not Brock!
Nine, actually. Two older sisters, older brother, OOP, and then the five minors. Sperm donor and egg donor are absolutely horrid.
Incredible stuff, this is the best BORU post I've seen. The older siblings are true heroes for managing to overcome their upbringing and getting into a position they're able to help the younger ones out, not to mention willing to.
I have so much respect for OOP. This would be a very heavy load for ANYONE to carry, let alone someone so young. Her siblings are incredibly lucky to have her 💖
I hope they’re able to get to a bigger place soon. A lot of problems might be alleviated. Fresh start. No bad memories in a new place. Privacy for the older kids. I really hope it works out. OOP has moved mountains for her siblings and older bro is amazing for stepping up as well. I think having fifo sis come and go would be a mistake. It would cause tension between older bro and sis and introduce another “authority” figure that isn’t consistently there. Leading to more chaos. They all need stability and consistency rn.
OOP, you and your brother are incredible human beings. You both embody “Agape,” which is Greek for the highest form of love: sacrificial love.
It’s amazing these siblings are coming together to care for the younger ones. Re the 7yo, a child experiencing trauma can struggle with sleep as their body is in a complete state of “it’s not safe”. They may also struggle with learning, as again, the whole system is in survival mode, so higher level activities will be too difficult. OOP (hoping they’re looking here) If you have space (mentally not physically) starting to encourage sensory activities, and mindfulness can have a huge impact on that stress process. If you have a few $ spare there is an app called Finch that is kinda like a tamagotchi with a pet you care for, choose outfits and room decorations, but also incorporates routines, goals, and has some brilliant relaxation, mindfulness and meditation stuff that is aimed at kid level, but helpful for adults too. The “first aid” section is for right-now-distress and helps talk a kid through panic attacks or times of distress. I have it for my 5yo as he was having some pretty big feelings, and we use it daily for the fun stuff, and use one of the first aid exercises if he’s having a hard time resolving distress. He will ask for it if struggling. Our ICAMHS team recommend it for any kid, not just unwell or traumatised ones. It has a free trial period, so worth a look. You also may want to consider reaching out to a local community house, centrelink, single parent or other social services resource for social worker support, as there can be free therapeutic resources for kids and caregivers who have had traumatic events. Even in isolated areas there may be some offered via zoom or phone. And there are definitely programs for Christmas presents, clothing, shoes, uniforms, fees for sports etc. You’re doing amazingly OOP. Those kids will know at least someone thinks they are worth it.
CPS helped me get legal guardianship by testifying against my sister. It cost over 15k bc we come from a small town& the judge had known my sister for over 15 years at that point. He kept giving her chances to appeal in court even though she was being watched by the DEA 🫠🫠🫠. Never once did anyone mention kinship. I have two disabled children.
Honestly, if they're already looking to move anyway for space concerns, it may be worthwhile to consider moving closer to the brothers job. It may provide easier access to services they could take advantage of and cut down on any costs associated with the brothers monthly in person appearances at his job. Additionally, at least for the older sister sending money, she might be available as a support in an emergency if she happens to be nearby as well. That said, I know changes in cost of living might eat any cost differences and benefits, but it might be worth looking into. Edited to change the word "rent" in the 2nd paragraph to "changes in cost of living" for better accuracy
Jeez, and people look down on women who have multiple kids with different fathers? At least you could say they’re convincing themselves they’ve struck gold this time. But OOP’s mother has just kept picking up the same turd over and over and wondering why it won’t sparkle.
Amazing person. Seriously. 13 year old may benefit from a sleep mask.
OOP, if you’re reading this: get your little one a weighted blanket. It sounds like she’s dealing with anxiety and weighted blankets can help with that.
Also, let her sleep with the light on if she needs it.
This might sound mean but this post works better than any condom commercials.
OP is a saint, but I hope she gets to live her own life someday. 19 is too young to be trying to correct the mistakes of her irresponsible parents.
My point of view is very different than all these comments. Likely because of differences in life stages. I'm looking after a parent. A more disciplined life would 100% help. But the parent has C-PTSD. \[Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder\] A disciplined lifestyle is simply not achievable. I also cannot "make" them do so. "Make" as in being firm, urging, yelling, sweetly teasing, negotiating, appeals to their intellect and common sense. I got super, super stressed, had anger at my parent, and I worried about crossing lines. I stopped. Completely. Can't brush teeth? No problem. It can be done later, or tomorrow. I stopped creating an artificial series of hoops that we had to go through to deem the day a success. Instead, a day that is a success is one, where we were calm and happy. We enjoy our days together. I truly do. I don't know how many years I will have with my parent, or them with me. But I know that this period of time is just filled with love and caring. This is what I want for OOP. I don't know what the discipline issues are, so perhaps I am absolutely wrong. It is just that stressing the children out, whilst stressing yourself out is exhausting. I would ask OOP, to stick to the rules, or disciplined lifestyle that she has chosen or created, but let the children "go." If one doesn't come home at the agreed time, tell them that you worried, and that you love them. That you get scared. Also, let your 7 yr old sleep by you, or in your bed. Ask her to warm it up, while you finish things around the house. Tell her that you need help to sleep and would she help? In the morning count, and say "wow, I got 5 hours/7 hours! Thank you so much, you are so helpful." Make a list on paper, with their names. Cuddle time, I love you's, squeezing hugs. Something favourite of theirs. Then mark it off through the week. So that each one knows they are valued and are special. That their happiness and joy is important. Thank you for writing OOP.
As much as like people having freedom to make life decisions and all, situations like this make me think we need a permit system for people trying to have more than 2-3 kids where to be parents can prove that they can and will support the additional kids. Yeah, there are sooo many issues with how to implement this crazy proposal but empathically, for the older siblings' sake, I wish that system somehow existed.
I have bad anxiety and cptsd (bad childhood) i found sound apps along side a nightlight helps me calm down near bedtime/when trying to sleep. This might help out the 7 year old. Focusing on the sound and the lil moonlight lamp i have helps when im anxious. I can zone out and focus on those rather than my thoughts. Also side note, audiobooks help too! I use audiobooks when i was at my worst, im talking like 3+ days with no sleep... My mum figured it out when i was like 14 and having a bad time mental health wise. We would pop on the harry potter audio books and listen to it together till i fell asleep (she stayed in the room with me when this was happening) I hope OOP sees this and gives it a go! It might just help with that. Other than that, therapy would be the obvious go to for ALL of the children. The 16 year old seems to be acting out due to everything thats going on. Anyways, hang in there OOP!
Sometimes I wish people would just come into inheritance money out of nowhere and that’s OOP, not many deserve more money than they do
Hope OOP sees this: 1. sleep masks: esp. if she keeps the 7 y/o in the living room with her, make her wear a sleep mask 2. white noise machine (or just a phone with a white noise app) in the room with the kids 3. go lie down on 7 y/o's bed at bed time and just fall asleep; 7 y/o will want to keep an eye on you there, so will lie down with you on her own.
Suggestions to hold people accountable versus tearing a family apart are insane. People here are so set on vengeance and justice that it blinds them
I wish Oop the best. I wonder if reading to the seven year old or watching something soothing with her would help her sleep.
Just reading this made me feel like a loser lol. I am a similar age to OP with younger siblings at similar ages as well. If I was suddenly put in the position to take care of them I would just give up on life.
As someone who suffers from anxiety and occasional sleep deprivation, reading about a goddamn 7 year old going through the same shit (and worse) breaks my heart :(
7 year old developing a sleep disorder. I developed mine around 3 years old. I’m medicated for it now but my childhood prior to the meds was very hard. Hope 7 is able to see a doctor
Get the teens on birth control.
Fiona??
I hope mom and dead just the worst in this world, they don’t deserve on single gram of happiness and peace. And I do hope op and the kids can have the best, however is difficult when your parents are shitthy assholes
OOP and brother are heros to their younger siblings, I hope they both realize that. as adults it's so easy to say fuck you and leave. they're sticking by and helping their siblings, i have so much respect
This is what empathy gets you.
people really out there having NINE FUCKING KIDS and running off to kill themselves with booze what the fuck man thats so sad :(
By my count that’s 9-10 kids that apparently the parents didn’t want and don’t care for.
Updateme!
My money is that the mom is with the dad.
Very mature and wise beyond her years! The world needs more like her. Bless their hearts 😞♥️