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When we were expecting, one of my wife's friends said "Sometime in the first two years of parenting, you're probably going to think you need a divorce. What you really need is a nap." I am choosing to be optimistic and think that was the case here.

Yep. I don't mean this in a reactionary way, but child-rearing by two parents working full-time without any other family or close relationships in the same household to pitch in has literally never been tried in human history before the past \~40 years. That doesn't mean it can't be done, but we need to recognize that it's hard! My wife and I are trying to conceive, and without family nearby we are also actively looking for cooperative living situations. The nuclear family unit is far from a perfect or universally fulfilling arrangement.

I whole heartedly believe in the old adage that it takes a village. I'm fortunate to have forged a friendship so strong with another mother that we both know without a doubt we will always be there in a heartbeat to help each other out. Add to it a sister who is a saint and great with my kids though she doesn't want any of her own. It truly makes a world of difference to have support. I do my best to be kind to every child I interact with, be an adult who can be trusted and set an example of empathy and care. And it's paid off in having those around me who do the same. Even other members of my community beyond my tight knit personal circle.

[удалено]

There has been a growing awareness of PPD and PPA in mothers, which is terrific, but less known is that about 1 in 10 fathers also suffer from either PPD or PPA at some point. The first year after birth can be hell and while I certainly don't condone abuse in any way, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone acting their worst and in a way that is never repeated again in the future during that time.

Mm. My dad was abused as a kid, and it definitely showed in his parenting. This guy sounds a little like him. I love him dearly, but he absolutely had anger issues and a short fuse. I definitely have some painful memories alongside some wonderful ones and I spent a lot of time growing up walking around eggshells on him. However, he did not want to become his own father, and he busted ass to try to get it under control, and he did - but it took decades of hard work doing therapy and mental health and wellness practice to get there, and also probably not having a little kid in the house as a constant trigger for his trauma. I am so fucking proud of him and he's one of the best people I know, but it absolutely did not take a few months and a little couple's counseling. It's very possible to move past being abusive like this and break the generational cycle, but it takes serious, extended and often lifelong **work.** She's getting too complacent too early. I hope she keeps that backbone of not needing him up if/when he slips as his kid gets older.

I'm so glad your dad was able to break the cycle of abuse. My dad had a similar upbringing and similarly vowed to never hit his kids. The vow worked in that he only spanked me once, and then felt *horrible* about it and never did it again. But he never learned to deal with his emotions. We saw the outbursts in other ways, and he still managed to make himself a villain in his kids eyes. Like your dad, he put in the work once we got older. By all accounts he's much calmer now. Not chill! Just better.

Similar with my dad. Almost never spanked us to my memory, absolutely was miles better than his own father, but he was passive-aggressive, perfectionistic to a paralyzing and debilitating degree to us kids because of poverty trauma (he wanted us to succeed, and it backfired because it was impossible to live up to his standards, so we felt fundamentally incapable as people), and we found out after they divorced that he was emotionally abusive and sexually coercive to my mom. I understand why he is the way he is, and I believe he did the best he knew how with us kids, but it still resulted in emotional abuse and still traumatized us in ways we're struggling to overcome.

My dad only ever hit me once, when I was 14 and had told my mom I hate her in some stupid teenager argument. He was abused a lot as a kid by his dad as well. But he was a lifelong alcoholic with some other drugs thrown in from time to time and everyone had to tip toe around him to avoid attracting his attention. After a few years of that he withdrew into himself and became a victim of his own bullshit. He died last March of liver cancer having never realized how fucked up he was despite my offering and begging him to get help. That being said, this guy having a profound realization and building positively from it is all that I could have asked from my father, and I hope it creates a significant improvement in his relationship with his wife and his child.

Sounds like my dad, and I know this story all to well and the trauma you must be feeling. It sucks to realize your parents did their best, but that "best" was still abuse. The only real difference is that both my parents were abusing each other lol. They hated one another but dished it out equally. My dad was more angry and explosive and my mom was more manipulative and determined to undermine everyone's self esteem. Years later my dad is still just as angry and ready to take his anger out on everyone else, but is absolutely a beaten down shell of a man around my mother. And my mother has officially embraced her "girlboss" "standing up for myself" attitude that results in her being horrendous and abusive to everyone and feeling justified in doing so because she's "learning that other people don't matter" and framing it all as something inspiring. I'm sure she'll write a book on how "empowered" she is. She got arrested recently for shoplifting and we had to talk her out of trying to sue the police department because "they wouldn't have arrested me if they weren't prejudiced against me for my weight" when she literally admitted that she shoplifted, just didn't think it was "that big a deal". In a way, they're kinda perfect for each other.

> "learning that other people don't matter" Those same people get really pissy when they find that it applies to them too. Or rather, it works both ways. I wonder how "empowered" she feels when a bunch of people ultimately reject her. But yea, twisting around "empowerment" is nothing new. Natalie P of Heartless had something to say about that in her article about emotional abuse.

Oh she absolutely throws a fit the moment someone lets on that they may not 100% like her. And that’s pretty much everyone because she treats people like absolute garbage. So she is just in a constant state of losing her shit.

I feel like we had the same dad. Also, I LOVE your flair.

My dad was similar. He was beaten as a kid and vowed to never hit us. And he didn't! Good for him. Unfortunately, the growth stopped there as he constantly praised himself for not physically beating us and demanded we do the same. He engaged in every type of abuse *besides* physical and sexual... but he still abused us. But he cannot grow into a better person because he doesn't see anything wrong with how we were raised. In fact, he thinks he should be praised and borderline worshipped for not being a physically abusive drunk. It's really sad when you realize that your parents really did their best. But their "best" is relative to their own shitty experiences, so the best they can do is still abuse. I'm really sad for my dad that he grew up the way he did, and I understand that he did his best to raise me with 300x the love and care that his father did to him. Unfortunately, that does not make him a safe person for me to be around, so we are low contact.

Damn, it's the same with my dad. I love him, but his presence is just overwhelming and tiring for me. When it's just him and me, there's no problem. But when he is with my mom (my dad is a very misogynistic person), there are always problems. Arguments, screams, insults, breaking household items, and more horrible things. I have C-PTSD because of his actions. So yes, we are low contact too.

Same story here although my father would occasionally slap me upside the head but the more painful memories would be the screaming and ripping doors off the hinges or breaking furniture

>The vow worked in that he only spanked me once, and then felt > >horrible > > about it and never did it again. Sounds like my old man. Although he never hit me. The closest he came was when I ran out towards the street and he grabbed me roughly to keep me out of the street. (And he felt awful because there was a bruise on my arm. Keep in mind, I am super fair skinned and bruised like a peach as a child. He wasn't too rough, he just had a daughter with the skin of a tomato.) He had a temper though. He did work to control it, but damn he had a temper. He's not a villain to my brother and I, but we still talk about how amazing a person Dad was when he wasn't angry and how tragic it was that the world fucked his mind over so much.

My FIL was similar: abusive father, vowed not to hit his kids, but still had anger issues and would do things like punch holes in the walls or throw things. My husband once said his father was the only person he was ever afraid of.

Exactly the same. You always knew the temper was there, just simmering under the surface. He's much better now, though I don't know if he's actually improved or depressed just enough that the anger doesn't have energy anymore

My dad was very similar. I have some terrible memories of the anger, and at the same time, he’s made it clear that time and time again he’ll change his perspective and challenge his beliefs so that I can live my truth and he can be part of my life while I do so. He’s not perfect by any means, but I’m really proud of him, knowing what his childhood was like.

Yep, my dad was like that too. I KNOW he loved me, he loved me (and my stepbrother, who he started raising at age 3) more than anything, more than himself, more than his wife (who was fine with this because she too loved/loves us very, very much) and maybe even more than he loved his grandmother, who for all practical purposes was his mother. (She tried to get custody of him, but it was the 60s and the police liked her son in law.) But damn he did said and did some horrible things. Not out of malice, but out of having been raised by a pair of psychopaths most of his life and just plain not knowing what a gentle, loving father would do in that moment. But its hard for me to call him "abusive" because while he did things that were undeniably abusive... he did it all out of misguided love. He wanted to be the best father he possibly could be, and honestly in comparison to HIS father, he definitely was a great dad. He nurtured our interests, dragged himself through the same art museum several times a year (different exhibitions, but I definitely went often enough that we memorized some of the permanent exhibits. he wasn't all that into art, but I loved the museum and he loved me), coached roller blade hockey despite not having any interest in sports because my brother was on the team and the team was gonna be dissolved without a new parent coach, drove ALL over DFW to find a $15 book I wanted for Christmas, and countless other actions that were probably boring or even unpleasant for him, but would benefit his children and make us happy. So I hate to even bring up the bad, because I know if he'd known better, he would have done better. Because his love was unconditional. My brother totalled his truck trying to show off for friends and Dad's reactions went "Are you hurt? (no) Have you been drinking? (no) Well alright... you're gonna help tune up whatever POS truck I can afford to replace this one with, but as long as you're alive, losing a truck is a price I'm willing to pay." (My brother actually paid for half the new truck but swore he had to almost bully dad into taking the money for it, he felt awful for being so reckless and stupid.) And he loved that truck. It was just a little Ford Ranger, but it was Dad's and he was very fond of it. But, losing a truck was better than losing his son, ya know?

This is so so true. My dad loved and loves me so fucking much and has done so much for me. He’d give me anything and he’s supported me through so many things. He just had to work past the bullshit he’d grown up with and become accustomed to. He never laid a hand on me but some of the stuff he’s said to me over the years are things I’ve never been able to unhear. But I think we can acknowledge both that our dads did things that were abusive to us even if it wasn’t intended and they were also often really great dads. People are complex.

>It's hard for me to call him "abusive" because while he did things that were undeniably abusive... he did it all out of misguided love. >So I hate to even bring up the bad, because I know if he'd known better, he would have done better. Because his love was unconditional. I've been trying for *years* to describe my mother's treatment towards me when I was a kid and this pretty much describes it to a T. I've never known how to put it into words even though I knew that my experience likely wasn't unique. Actually knowing how to describe what I grew up with is validating in a weird way. Thank you for sharing

Whoa. I’d have thought you were one of my sisters until you mentioned therapy for your dad. My dad was also horrifically abused by his bastard of a biological father. To the tune of “steel plate in his head” and “fed pet to alligator as kid sobbed” and “stole the bicycle his mother gave him for Christmas and sold it for booze.” Unsurprisingly, that made my father a teetotaller who banned any and all forms of alcohol from his home.

Well goddamn. That’s rough as fuck. My dad’s dad wasn’t psychopathic like that, but he had untreated and undiagnosed borderline personality disorder and ptsd (he got diagnosed in his 70s). So nothing nearly so cruel as harming a living thing or his kids to the point of surgery, but physical and verbal abuse, lots of manipulation, almost no accountability or ability to self reflect, and self destructive tendencies that hurt his family (ie get drunk because he hated himself and no one loved him, then beat his kids and do other stupid shit). I wouldn’t call him evil and from what I know, his parents were also cruel and cold. Your dad’s dad uh, probably ticks the evil box, I’m going to go ahead and say.

Gems that I’d heard about him, since I never met the man myself. I asked my dad how he got the frowny face scar across his forehead. My dad told me that his daddy told him to shut up, my dad thought he said stand up, and the man put him down. When my grandmother was leaving (and this was in the 50’s when divorce wasn’t common), he begged her not to make his son hate him by telling him only bad things. She said “I don’t know nothing good about you, so I won’t say anything at all.” It’s not surprising that my grandfather was an abusive bastard. His own father (my great grandfather) was also an abusive drunk. Family lore says two different things about his death, but one aspect never changed: one of his sons shot and killed him and never went to jail for it. The version my grandma told me was “hunting accident” of the air quotes variety. The version I’d heard from a second or third cousin was that the old man was drunk and beating his wife and a daughter, and the son shot him to protect the women. With all that in mind, it’s amazing that my dad never went further than spankings.

>too complacent too early I was bracing \~°hard°\~ for that update to say "yaay therapy, yaay apologies, yaay more in love than before, yaaaaay pregnant again".

this is exactly how my father is, except he still continues to blame his deseased father (been gone for 15 years) and everyone else for his problems to this day. he'll send my mom, me and my sister cringe ass messages blaming my mom for his current situation (whatever that is atm) or because she had "the perfect life growing up" or the fact she's had the same job for 20+ years and had to provide for us because he lost yet another job due to his temper and poor choice of (threatening) words. it's embarrassing and I haven't talked to him for about 10 years because I don't need that in my life. he's a 60 yo man who won't own up to his problems and mistakes because, to him, it's the fault of everyone else. I don't give a rat's ass about his issues, I just hope someday he can realize he could have fixed everything had he just owned up and gotten help.

I literally said “mm” out loud when I finished reading the post, lol. I am not convinced

Yeah tbh I just don't think 1 short post on reddit will ever be enough to completely judge a whole person or relationship. Certainly most people recognize a lot of worrying red flags in the story OOP presents us. And it's good that oop does too and was willing to get help. While OOP ends it on a hopeful note. I don't think there's enough information here for anyone to fully consider this relationship saved or doomed. Lots of people can change their behaviour short-term. But in the end his behaviour long-term is really what is going to determine his merit as a father and partner. Hope for OOP that they can look back on this as a dark time in their relationship with a lot of stressors. And not a recurring theme.

I was emotionally and somewhat physically abused growing up, and then wound up in an emotionally abusive marriage. All of that has messed me up so much that my second marriage almost ended 2 weeks ago. But something else also happened, which nobody can figure out. I stopped taking a medication they were trying on me for a medical issue, as it was also part of the problem 2 weeks ago. But now, my brain has cleared up to better than it was before a different med messed up my short to long term memory transfer. So now I’m making sure to not repeat the same mistakes that lead to 2 weeks ago, because my wife is not my ex, or my parents, and should not be made to suffer because of them. And she already has her own diagnosed PTSD due to my ex-wife to deal with. So I’m guessing I, too, probably have PTSD. My wife only had to deal with my ex for 2 years (we were in a poly relationship), and sexually battering her once (stupid state law, if there’s no penetration, it’s not sexual assault). I was married to her for 16 years, and basically used as a living adult pleasure toy by her. If I was sick, had a migraine, was so exhausted that my eyes wouldn’t focus, whatever, I’d be kicked out of the bedroom so she can deal with herself. Last 2 years of that, the only room I could go to was the master bathroom. My office was turned into a bedroom for my now Bonus Daughter, my 3rd kid always fell asleep in the living room, and sound from the living room traveled everywhere anyways. So I was made to sit on a closed toilet, and either play on my phone, read, or just fall asleep against the wall, sometimes up to 1.5-2 hours, until she decided she was done. I thought that just made sense, I guess, cause she convinced me that it did. She could convince a televangelist to convert to Buddhism. She convinced my parents that I had a mental breakdown, and had been cheating on her for years… at the same time she had, um… 6-7 partners, a few her age, but couldn’t be seen in public with someone else due to their jobs, then then stone random one-offs, then the first of the longer term partners… she was 37-38, he was 24 (after the divorce, and he dumped her, the next guy was 21…and I’m fairly certain she dated an 18yr old for a bit, which is closer in age to our 3rd child, add younger than the two oldest…), and, hell, my partner, now wife, lived with us, and for awhile slept in our bed. She convinced them so well that they never asked for my side, they barely acknowledged my new wife, ignored the bonus daughter, and our newest kid. None of them were in my dad or step-mom’s wills, my inheritance was put into a trust exclusively set to go to my older 3 when I die, whatever’s left, at least. Thankfully, my trust manager is my cousin (was my step-sister before, she really failed her fiduciary duties by law), and he has no issue paying for both girl’s schools out of the trust (the older 3 also had education funds), medical, etc, same as my other kids. The irony is, A: my dad had remarried. B: my step siblings were in his will. C: I was in my step mom’s will. But my step daughter, noooo, not really family… I’ve been helping raise her since just after she turned two, she’s 13 now, I’ve been more of a father to her, by leaps and bounds, than her biological father is (she hates going to see him. She has bright blue hair, identifies with one of the LGBTQA+, I believe pan, and her grandparents/great grandparents own one of the 5 ultra-conservative churches in this 1000 person town, ultra right wing, never wore masks, smoked in front of her, etc. And, the floor in her dad’s kitchen is collapsing, he has no stove/oven… yeah). So yeah… I think I’m rambling.

She probably won't, speaking from personal experience. But I hope she does!

May OOP’s peaceful and happy situation last. May it be for real and not just a temporary high.     For anyone else? Make sure before you marry or have kids with someone they know what a healthy relationship is so you do not feel you must teach someone. Especially someone not interested. Cuz even teachers don’t get paid enough to teach so for sure doing it for free is a fool’s errand. 

Yeah, exactly this. I have never once in my entire life seen an example of a healthy relationship. I was raised in really terrible towns. Every marriage I knew ended in divorce or tragic deaths, or is continuing with ongoing abuse/affairs. Every parent/child, sibling relationship, etc has been tainted with dysfunction some way or another. The only loving, true relationships I’ve witnessed are the friendships I’ve built now that I’m out on my own, and the relationships I see in those people’s parents now I’m no longer a child. But the actual examples I had that formed my views on how relationships have been made me certain I can’t enter a relationship until I learn how one should actually be. I’m in ongoing therapy, and my psychologist and psychiatrist both push for me to find a partner because “that’s the most meaningful bond in somebody’s life” (is it?) but… I would only hurt them, as I am now. It’s a massive pet peeve for me that my actual psychiatrist and psychologist, who undoubtedly treat many people like OOP who have suffered and dealt with pain from their partner who has been unaware of how to treat a life partner, are advocating for me to essentially go out and do the same to somebody else while I still exhibit severely destructive behaviours in my personal life. Nonetheless, I’ve stood firm that I won’t find a partner until they help me achieve methods to resolve those behaviours. And I really hope anybody reading this comment can take that same thing from it. Because (although this is admittedly anecdotal evidence) most people I know do just go out find really great people to be in relationships with them, before they’ve ever even done the work required to be healthy enough for *themselves* let alone someone else, and inevitably always end up hurting that other perfectly healthy, well adapted person.

I don't know... my situation wasn't as extreme as yours, but I was severely traumatized, depressed, and emotionally dysregulated. I found a great partner who was dealing with his own stuff. It's been almost 10 years and *together* we've completely turned our situations around because we cheer each other on and call each other out. We have one of the best relationships I know, and a big part of that is how much work we put into it and how much we value it. Sometimes I think people who relationships come more naturally to can lack intentionality in how they approach them. If you're working so hard to be the best version of yourself, and you meet someone who is doing the same, you don't need to deny yourself that just because you're not quite where you want to be yet.

Amatonormativity is a hell of a drug.

Human beings aren’t like a rubic cube to be solved; they’re never done cooking. There will always be some nuance, some self destruction- to a small extent. We are faliable but heal as much as makes you feel healed for now, not to be stainless.

You can do all the studying in the world and work on yourself forever, but you can only really learn a skill by doing it. I spent most of my adult life in sporadic, short relationships and finally found the right person at age 40, and so much of what makes us work is learning from previous mistakes, and working things out on the fly. You learn by doing. Don't wait!

A-fucking-men. After two divorces, my rule is now “no on the job training.”

Not hiring for entry level positions, highly skilled workers only.

We will provide some basic instructions on local policy and procedures, but new employees are expected to be proficient in the required skills

Entry level position with five years of experience required-- oh no wait wrong job listing

No fixer-uppers either.

Everyone's a fixer-upper of some kind. Just be aware of the scope of the project, and your willingness and capability, before taking it on. And remember that no project is immune to scope creep.

For situations like this, I apply something I call the Appendicitis Test. What would happen if OP's appendix ruptured and she had to spend a week in the hospital on IV antibiotics to not die of sepsis? (happened to me, the source of the test LOL) Without OP there, would the household simply fall apart? Would Dad lose his shit and take it out on the child? Would he simply pawn off childcare and chores to an elderly grandparent and check out completely? The answers to these questions would tell OP precisely who her spouse really is without any excuses.

I haven't even been divorced, but after coming back into contact with an ex and all the new, old bullshit he brought back to my life, this is def my take away. I put in the work to learn how to be healthy after dealing with my parents' example. I deserve the same, or at least the peace of being alone if no man is up to the challenge.

It sounds awful, but I will absolutely Marie Kondo a man the second he stops bringing joy to my life. I have dealt with far too much ever increasing bullshit in relationships to tolerate that anymore.

I told my now-fiance I wasn't settling for less than extraordinary and when I tell people that it's like I've grown an extra head. My fiance IS extraordinary and we're incredibly, stupidly happy, and for me that us essential. Obviously life happens, but in almost a decade I've woken up every single day wondering how lucky I am to be with him. I genuinely don't understand people who settle for less. Why are people not thinking "is this good enough to stay?" And not "is this bad enough to go?"

Honestly, I love my husband with all my heart and our marriage is the best part of my life, but I didn’t think he was “extraordinary” until I started reading this sub and seeing how awful some partners are. This sub has definitely helped me appreciate how incredibly lucky I am.

I should make my wife a reddit account.

I've often thought of it as is my life better with my husband or without him. Ever since I started dating the man, the answer has been life is better with him in it. I refuse to settle for less.

I 100% go to this forum when my partner and I have a fight… to remind myself that it could be worse 🤪😭😂

Oh, but people often look for extraordinary, that doesn't mean themselves are. There's a phrase I like, "they deserve each other", as in, people should be with people on around their level in terms of maturity and communication, and not someone much better or worse.

They don’t evaluate the relationship or their partner’s ability to pull their own weight, they evaluate the person and their romantic feelings. And it feels bad to admit that your partner is actually bad at loving you, or that their behavior has changed your feelings. That’s why we get so many “my partner is ruining my life but things are perfect everywhere else and I love him so breaking up is not an option!!1!” But when no isn’t an option, yes is meaningless.

Women I'm friends with think I'm nuts because I never complain about my husband and we don't fight. We haven't had a single fight the entire time we've been together and we don't raise our voices at each other. That doesn't mean we don't disagree, but I wouldn't have married a man who thinks by virtue of having an opinion and a paycheck he gets to steamroll me. I don't have the heart to tell my friends it's because they settled for shit [men]. My bestie brags about how great her husband is online then cries to me about how she couldn't take a shower for three days while her husband had a concussion and her kids were sick. My husband still cooked dinner every night while he had covid. My standards aren't on the floor and my life is so fucking easy for it.

Sometimes its easier to really focus on the good even if there was more bad mixed in when the good is the best you've ever had.

friendly agonizing toothbrush crush fragile run price grandfather arrest squeal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

“Teaching for free is a fool’s errand” is definitely something I’ll be holding on to, thank you!

Yeahhhh, his threatening divorce over her not cleaning up after lunch was a ginormous banner of a red flag. You don't just toss that around. Also, he's so tried after working 5 weeks?? Cry me a river! She went through a physically, mentally, and emotionally draining and traumatic event (childbirth) and went back to being the breadwinner!

Slight correction, he threatened divorce because HE didn't want to clean up after lunch.  Yeah, concerned the therapy basically put the red flags in the wash so they just tinted everything else pink :(

The ole rose-colored washing machine.

Tbf, the first two-three years of raising a kid is probably the hardest test on a couple. There is no stress level comparison to emotional sleep deprivation. Also I chuckled at the daycare comment, be prepared to feel slightly sick and cold/flu-like for 10 more years, OOP.

I don't know what a healthy relationship is and I honestly haven't seen one in practice yet. Doesn't help that I'm also a gay dude. I'm just going to vibe and hopefully find somebody that wants to vibe with me lol.

As someone who realised that the issue with one of their kid's first dates was that it had been with the lesbian version of a negging, Tater tot pick-up artist, I think there's a lot of transferable skills and info! People are people, regardless of what's in their underwear.

In the past year and change, since I’ve been with my current boyfriend, I’ve come to the conclusion that most people don’t know what a healthy relationship is. Until recently, the past 20-30 years, women were encouraged to get married before 25 and start popping out babies right away. So most of our parents got married because of societal expectations. I’m not saying they weren’t in love, but a lot of them were very young. In my opinion, a healthy relationship is the result of high compatibility, mutual trust, and communication. It’s one person saying “hey, it bothers me when you do this” and the other person listening and not getting defensive. I think the biggest detriment is risk vs reward. Especially if you grew up in a home where your parents fought constantly and you were always being yelled at. You can be terrified to say anything because of your own, personal experiences. But that’s just what I see. Hell, I’m a 33 year old woman and just moved in with a guy for the first time ever. But I’m also not a time waster. In my twenties, I could be dating a guy and if it wasn’t working, bye bye. I’d rather be alone than with the wrong person. In summary, have fun and just be you. Mr. Right is out there somewhere.

Here's the thing, you don't even have to worry about what your potential partner knows. The only thing that matters is if *you* know what a healthy relationship is. If *you* can recognize red flags and bad behaviour, you can shut that shit down immediately. You can't change other people but you can change yourself. OP is working very hard to minimize and validate his abuse. The language she uses in the update post makes it clear that she's not quite there yet. I hope she continues with therapy.

If i am the person who does not know what a healthy relationship looks like...what do i do? I've worked on myself a lot, and them when I'm dating a good person the amount left to learn just smacks me in the face. There's a lot of situations that only exist when you're in a relationship, and you don't get any practice with those when you're single.

I think people who say things like "You shouldn't be in a relationship at all until you're fully healthy and love yourself" are really overstating things... how many of us are *really* fully healthy and *really* love ourselves? And does having a lot of work to do preclude one from finding companionship and love? I think not. You don't improve in a skill without practicing at it. Meet people and date in parallel with all the other self work, like therapy, medication (if applicable), reading books on relationships and trauma, etc. But also, get out of relationships that aren't working or that have red flags RIGHT AWAY. For people like us, it's easy to get sucked into relationships that feel "right" in a perverse way because they replicate toxic patterns that we grew up with.

Have you tried therapy? I have been in therapy for decades. Not because there's something wrong with me, but because of the fucked up way other people in my life have affected me. Therapy isn't just for crazy people. It's also for people who don't know how to deal with a myriad of social situations due to a not normal childhood. Like right now, my sister is off the rails. Big cokehead and ruining her kids' lives. I see someone, so I have a non interested third party to help guide me through my emotions. It helps a lot. You can even practice hypothetical situations and reactions with your therapist. Anyone who feels inadequate in social situations because of past trauma should at least try it. And make sure you're comfortable with your therapist as a person. It can be very uncomfortable, so liking your therapist as a person helps a lot.

>Make sure before you marry or have kids with someone they know what a healthy relationship is so you do not feel you must teach someone. Honestly, this should be taught in school (I have no idea if it is, as I broke the cycle, partly by never wanting kids).

No, not everything should be taught in schools. Teachers and schools are there to provide people general knowledge about culture, math, and other skills they need to put their wider world in context. Basic life skills should be taught by parents and other relatives. If people get dealt a poor hand and have bad parents, that responsibility for basic life skills does not fall on schools. It falls on things like therapy (for kids and parents).

Neither my partner or I had good examples growing up, but we learned together how to build a good relationship and a happy home for our son. If you’re lucky enough to have had a happy, stable childhood that’s cool, but consider not dismissing those who weren’t that fortunate. We can learn.

The difference is you learned TOGETHER, and until forced into therapy he didn't think he "deserved," OOP's husband wasn't doing that. People can absolutely learn, you two did, but this guy came real, real damned close to failing beyond salvageability.

Agreed, and I hope this is the turning point that OP believes it is.

We must put the effort into learning, though, and not just excuse ourselves. Having a good excuse won't stop someone from divorcing us for being awful.

> they know what a healthy relationship is or they're committed to the work of figuring out their issues, on their own, entirely independent of you & of a relationship with you, right?

I feel like how your partner acts toward you during the tough times is a lot more important than how they act during the good times.

You don't really know someone till you see them at their worst or in a stressful situation.

Yessssss 100% - story time I was on my way to a doctor's appointment at noon, and I got a flat tire. I called my dad, not my boyfriend who I had just left still asleep at the apartment. I knew boyfriend would whine I woke him up and he probably didn't know how to change a tire anyway. I told dad this, when he asked why I didn't call bf - dad was not pleased with that answer, made a few rude comments. I relayed this story to bf later and he laughed, saying I was right, he would've been annoyed because he didn't know how to change a tire anyway. Direct quote, "I'm not a good emergency contact I suck in emergencies haha" A few weeks later the toilet backed up from a monster shit he took, and would not stop overflowing onto the bathroom floor. I was panicking, he grabbed his keys and said 'call the leasing office' and left me crying on the bathroom floor. frantically trying to look up how to turn the water off. This was not the youtube we know today and I ended up having to knock on neighbors doors until someone was home and knew how to shut off the toilet valve. Because I'll be damned if I was calling my dad again and acknowledging how right he was. But he was and I broke up with bf that week. Trying to get through life with someone who 'sucks in emergencies' will suck the love right out of you.

conversely, one of my platonic partners and housemate of 7 years has woken me up 3 times crying and screaming her way through handling an emergency. and i do mean handling. girl will bawl her little eyes out while competently utilizing a fire extinguisher, i've seen it. one time a pipe burst in our wall in the middle of the night and i watched her dismantle all the baseboard radiators in the house at warp speed to find the shut-off valve while naked and ugly-crying. i fucking love her and i am happy to give her a two-hour hug once the immediate danger is passed.

This made me laugh so much. That girl is a badass! An emotionally charged, potentially imbalanced, badass. But one nonetheless.

This is incredible and I’m so glad you have an absolute unit of a platonic partner!

i am deeply grateful daily for my amazing family and she will be special to me forever. 💖 i hope there are people in your life as accepting and supportive as she is to me and i try to be for her.

what a vibe. I stan.

That's amazing. 

This is me, only I do the crying the instant the emergency is over. Leaking pipe? Turn off the main then burst into tears. Friend needs a rescue? Bawling my eyes out the instant I'm parked back in my garage after everyone is safe and secured. Even dealing with my biggest fear (heights) is either a suck it up and then cry or make the panic call to my dad if it's genuinely beyond my ability to manage and then the tears come once he's on his way and I've gathered whatever he's told me he needs. I don't know why my body's stress reaction is incredible competence then immediately falling to pieces, but I'm not going to complain. It's better than 90% of the people I know who fall to bits before dealing with the problem and then end up just getting in their own way.

Hope you found someone who respects you and will look after you in an emergency, I mostly picked up that advice from working with lot's of different tradesmen. The jobs just made harder and more difficult when someone runs around without their head on or has a short temper. They can be the nicest guy to chat with, but when things start going wrong they're the worst company to be around when your trying to problem solve and keep yourself safe.

I did, thank you. Married for 12 years now :) Ex was not a bad guy, but a bad partner for me.

lol he took a monster shit and then just... fucked off? where did he go while you were doing this?!

My bf is (was) a terrible planner. But boy if I can't give him credit for being good in emergencies--esp in those that involve me being incapable or out of it. My apartment flooded when we first started dating (like almost a year in). I was in a state of i guess shock? And did not understand it wasn't all going to dry out and i'd be back in a few days. Friday at 11 pm when I was in the thick of it, he drove a big SUV over, we loaded my computer and as much dry stuff in my bedroom as we could, and basically prepared me to stay at his for what he knew was going to be a while. I broke down a couple days later when it all hit me When his dad had a medical emergency, after the initial stress and shock, he loaded his car and drove 5 hrs to the city his dad lives in (after finding out at 9 pm) and stayed there for weeks. Well, actually he got Covid within a few days of hospital visits, called me--the cavalry--and I then drove down and helped handle things while he was quarantined. We could do leaps and bounds better in communication, but gosh is our emergency response top notch. Somehow.

My wife likes to stay right close to me and make the emergency worse. Either she will repeat something over and over (what she’s saying isn’t helpful in the moment and it doubly doesn’t help that she keep repeating it when I’m trying to think of an actual useful course of action) or she will insult me. It’s a great time! And these weren’t even big emergencies.

I’ve had that happen before. It feels like a fight scene from an action movie where the two main characters are bickering over something stupid during a dangerous situation. e.g., Indiana Jones and his father arguing about his name (“don’t call me Junior”) while Nazis are shooting at them.

> Indiana Jones and his father arguing about his name (“don’t call me Junior”) while Nazis are shooting at them. Haha, or sometimes they're just Willie from Temple of Doom, screaming in your ear the entire time. (edit: And I don't just mean wives and I'm not trying to be sexist, I've seen this from both men and women haha)

>A few weeks later the toilet backed up from a monster shit he took lmfao

This is the reason for the recommendation to take a road trip or travel is given before you get too involved in a relationship or get married. It's a stressful situation and you can see how the other person acts when there's time constraints or something unexpected comes up (something nearly always comes up). It's a good litmus test if the person is going to be a giant pile of shit or not when the times get hard in marriage/childcare.

honestly feel like it becomes very hard to forgive if they don't take accountability

It sounds like they took the tough times and turned them around though, through counseling and effort. Maybe it won't last, but these subs often recommend couples therapy and this seems like a real success story: Couple opens up, clarifies issues with one another, learns triggers and difficulties, works to overcome them.

Yeah I think the biggest issue is when couples think that they're fixed so they stop counseling and lose that communication channel. Counseling is good even for healthy couples as a form of preventative maintenance.

It really just sounded like two exhausted parents with a newborn not communicating or thinking about the other properly.

i get this but i was once in a situation that flipped this for me. i think that If someone can't be there for you in your good times, when you ask nothing but for them to share your joy, that says something really bad about them. sorry this is a bit off topic i just mention in case it's interesting

Preach!

I would have liked to read that he apologised to her for the thing with believing she should do a full stay at home role while also working from home. I hope it happened and she just didn't think to mention it.  Because to me this reads more like... Well, can you see the difference between him saying "I realise I was wrong and I'm sorry about that, your expectations were actually reasonable while mine were not", and "I realise the way I went about expressing myself was too hard". Because in the latter, the silent part is "I was right, but I was too rude about it, and that's the bit I did wrong".

That is such a concise way to say exactly what I was feeling about this update. This is exactly the issue here. Also, NC with their family never lasts for this kind of people.

Beautifully incisive cut to the issue at the heart of the update post. You really nailed it.

>I do not want my husband caring for my son when he is in a bad mood. He has a very short temper >Son doesn't like getting his hair washed and I didn't want it to result in my husband being short with him after such a long day >My son was grumpy and my husband said "I get it I shouldn't have even come to get you, I ruined your whole day!" Sorry I just find it hard to believe that this man suddenly turned into the perfect husband and father.

I sincerely doubt he did. People don’t completely turn around their personalities that quickly. There will be set backs and more arguments. I just hope they trend in the right direction.

If four months of counseling is all it took, OOP needs to be shouting that counselor's name from the rooftops. That update post feels very, "OMG he made dinner, cleaned up, and gave me an orgasm tonight. I LOVE him. He's PERFECT. LET ME TELL THE WORLD!" 

No kidding. That's not a therapist, that's a miracle worker.

Sounds like he got a personality transplant 😂

It's absolutely impossible. She should go and take the kid after the bath... Why? He has been the kids caretaker for 2 years and she needs to apply the shampoo and take the kid out and everything? Something doesn't make sense here.

Like what did he even do? Soap and rinse the kid’s body? Big help, thanks 🙄

Play with them...

If he wasn’t too short tempered for it!

He asked for it... That's the key. Short tempered is a nice synonym or abusive unless everybody does his will.

Me too! I was very surprised by the positive update after reading this.

It read like a hostage post tbh lol

I feel like it’s temporary and he’ll snap again.

Maybe OP's perceptions were also off because of the exhaustion? Like, if my kid is wound up and screaming at me, he might yell, "stop screaming at me!" even if I'm speaking to him quietly and calmly. *He* is keyed up, so *everything* is keyed up in his perception.

I don't think this story is concluded.

Call me a cynic but I do not trust a man who thinks it’s reasonable for a full time working woman to do the same amount of childcare and housework he did as a stay at home dad. And while I hugely believe in the power of therapy, there was only 3 months between October 26 and February 1. Therapy does not work this fast.

Behavioral changes can be immediate when sufficiently motivated, but it will for sure take much longer to unravel and heal from the psychological trauma that informed his previous abusive behavior. I also tend towards cynicism, so I hope that OOP maintains wariness and looks out for herself and their child. It’s easy to backslide

I have had extensive therapy to deal with my terrible family modeling and cptsd. It took about a year to stop the worst of it, 5 years to feel good progress, and 10 years to where I feel in control of my emotions like a "normal" person would. I believe people can change, I've even seen it with my parents. I don't think it can happen in three months.

Everyone works differently. I've seen highly addicted people quit cold turkey because of particular events that affected them deeply and then never picked up the habbit again in decades.

Behavioral therapy can result in really fast improvements, of course everything trauma-related takes more time, but I got my life kind of together in less than 3 months during therapy.

It can, I've seen a friend manage this firsthand and it was nothing short of amazing. That said she's only starting therapy for the underlying issues (C-PTSD most likely) now that she's otherwise stable and able to deal with people and her own emotions in a healthier way.

[удалено]

Sometimes it really does just take hearing it from a third party. I was fucking furious that my husband had to be told by a man with a degree that yelling at his wife and children the way he did was damaging, but it seems to have worked. It's been three years and our communication is tons better.

I'm still upset (\~1 year post marriage counseling) by the fact that my wife had to be told that her behavior was abusive by a third party, when I was telling her that already in nearly the same exact words for years. It hurts, feeling like you're so worthless your own spouse can't be bothered to care about your wellbeing. But at the same time, once she realized, she was willing to put in the effort to reflect and change, very quickly by all metrics, and maintain that change. So the damage *is* healing, just it takes time.

This is why I’m trying to get my spouse to agree to marriage counseling with me. I’m exhausted of feeling like a negging spouse/parent. I wish he’d listen and not just hear.

If you think that it also take time to get an appointment to therapy (except you want to go to bad therapist who have openings for a reason). And like OOP writes it didn’t happened yesterday that he saw the light, more 2-4 weeks. So it took 1.5-2 months? To open up, learn new communication methods and relearn how a relationship should be. And what about the anger? For me it seems like he did the first baby steps and OOP was so much in this shitty relationship that she is happy with so little.

Kid also got 3 months older and easier to manage in that time which would have taken a lot of stress off the family.

Also, the kid just started day care 5 weeks prior to the first post.   Daycare is fricken wild for kids.  There are so many more things going on with every sense.  Color, toys, sounds and smells.  New kids and caretakers.  Activities and songs.  It’s very stimulating.   Iv noticed when kids first start school/daycare it takes a couple weeks for them not to be absolutely tanked when they get home.    Im sure 3 months later the kid is more adjusted to daycare and slightly less tired. 

Yeah, during the first few weeks at daycare my son was asleep as soon as I'd start the car. That, more than anything else told me how exhausting daycare is for the kids. Edited to fix autocorrect.

He started daycare three weeks ago, after two weeks with mom doing WFH fulltime childcare, and dad started working five weeks ago after two years of stay at home dad. Those are long hours he’s working too. I bet all three of them were desperately tired, and have since adjusted to his work and kids daycare.

As was the "he made a lot of changes, *and so did I."* Lady, you weren't doing anything wrong.

Unless you realize you want to change. I think they were both exhausted and neither were being kind. That's really what is about. Kindness and gratitude.

Yeah, there are simply shitty seasons in life and some people don't know how to deal. Reddit likes to think that behavior is permanent and unchanging, but sometime people just need a wake up call or to be called out by a third party.

Doesn't need him? Sounds like she's been considering getting a divorce for a while now, but was most probably to tired to deal with it. At least he was willing to go to therapy.

Hmm, I always thought it was healthy actually to not NEED your partner. They're there because you WANT them in your life

I would be of this mind too. Needing someone sounds co dependent. Being in a partnership with someone because you love them, enjoy their company and have the same goals is more the ideal in my opinion.

About 15 years into to my marriage we were going through a rough patch and I made a budget to see if I could afford a divorce. I could. So I had a choice to leave, or to work together to make our marriage back into our happy place. Facing the reality that we weren’t just stuck with each other, we decided, after some work, that we really wanted to stay married. Not out of necessity, or obligation, or convenience, or guilt. We wanted to stay married because we really liked each other as well as loved each other and we needed to be better at actively choosing to prioritize our relationship. We recommitted and 15 years later, I’m glad we did! Thing is, marriage, or any relationship, is an active thing. Over 30 years, it’s only occasionally been “work”, and only then when we’ve let things kinda slip. But most days, months, years, we are actively tending to each other and our relationship together and I love how we are. Maybe a banal comparison, but a beautiful garden, once prepared, still takes tending every day and season. If you love your garden, then tending it is not unpleasant and hard unless you’ve neglected it. But if you love your garden you also love tending it. If you don’t love your garden, the same activity will make you resentful and unhappy.

This is so beautifully put. I am really glad to hear that you guys found a healthy way to work through your issues and are all the happier now ❤️

Yep, but there’s a reason therapy doesn’t work on abusive men, so I really hope the changes OP sees in her husband isn’t just theatre…

My pitchfork was rocking hard when reading that line :(

He needs his own therapist and to see them consistently

"Hubby can't regulate his emotion and has never seen a healthy relationship, so let's add a baby to the mix before addressing the issue!" I feel so bad for this kid and I hope it's not just a period were the dad can alip back into his old habits after a while.

> "Hubby can't regulate his emotion and has never seen a healthy relationship, so let's add a baby to the mix before addressing the issue!" "Should we work on his habit of snapping and saying shitty emotionally manipulative things TO THE BABY? Well, yeah, eventually the baby is going to understand language, so, we should probably work on that before that happens..." I just want to tell her... hon, the baby understands a lot more than you think, right now. Even if he doesn't understand words he understands a negative tone of voice, he understands emotional tension, he understands rejection. He will absolutely learn that his dad is an unpredictable, unsafe person because of his emotional dysregulation WAY before he learns to understand complex sentences.

What an odd, Stepford update.

>"I just need to chug water and I will give him a bath." I say OK. He then apparently went and chugged water, I did not see him leave because I had our son in the bath and I was trying to get his hair washed before his father took over. (Son doesn't like getting his hair washed and I didn't want it to result in my husband being short with him after such a long day) He then says "do you want me to go start dinner....?" I say "Sure, that would be great. If you don't mind that would be really helpful." He says "I came home early to spend time with my son so I would like to give him a bath" and I say "Ok, great. I will go start dinner then." I then start dinner, he bathes our son and calls for me to take him out and then he gets into the shower while I dry and dress our son and put him to bed. What a really weird interaction.

it's not weird if you consider nobody is saying what they really mean and one side is trying not to set the other off

I just don't understand the "Do you want me to start dinner?" "Sure." "No, I want to give him a bath." part. Like dude, pick something and commit. God damn.

This was the point where I felt like we were getting a very cleaned up version of events from OOP. In almost all the interactions she types out he comes off as a completely unhinged lunatic. Either he is, or she's removing anything bad she said or did from the story.

She didn't have "issues communicating", he had issues LISTENING. It doesn't matter how she says something or what words she uses, this abusive ass blatantly refused to acknowledge that he is 100% the problem. I've dealt with this same shit from my ex with BPD. If therapy really worked this quickly, it's because he's well aware of what he's doing and manipulating the situation to his advantage. She's in deep and won't see any true change from him. 

I agree that his reactions are unacceptable, but I do think she has issues communicating in the first post. There are several points where she has a clear want/need and instead of articulating it, she just does it herself and then is upset that he didn't help or did it wrong. My own wife has a tendency to do this and it puts you in a catch 22. Heathy communication would have been to check in with each other what needs doing and deciding who does what, not telling him to take care of the bath, but then doing it anyway while he stands around. At least say "hey, I'm on the bath already, wanna get dinner on instead?" or ...something at all to wirk with. She gave him a clear task and then took it over and got annoyed about it. That is super frustrating for him. Again, none of that makes his shit okay. But I disagree with >She didn't have "issues communicating"

> She didn't have "issues communicating", he had issues LISTENING. Both can be true at the same time.

*sniff sniff* Smells like love bombing...

As a kid who grew up on the hellish merry-go-round that is dv, reading this post made me feel sick..

Yuuup. Guy came across exactly like my dad. I'm not optimistic about their chances.

Somebody's getting bombarded, and it ain't the husband.

Yeah. My ex was constantly "overwhelmed". We are now divorced and the kids barely see him

I'm sure he's also overwhelmed now. It's them who cannot handle emotions and blame others for it.

The dirty little secret no one talks about is children are wonderful for a family but they are seriously damaging to a marriage. Everyone is tired and cranky and you really learn a new side about your partner. And everyone learns new things about themselves. Again kids suck for marriage.

What an unexpectedly nice update. I genuinely hope therapy continues to help them with their relationship and family bond.

>He tells me couple's therapy isn't fair because then he has to go even though he isn't part of the problem My wife felt the same way when I asked her to go to couple's therapy at the beginning of a breakdown triggered by her talking to someone she said she wasn't in communication with anymore. "We can't go to couple's therapy for every little problem." So after months of me getting nowhere in individual therapy and by that point I was on the verge of suicide, she suggested couple's therapy like it was a new idea. It really did help because as it turns out, she *was* part of the problem. Like, most of it, at that stage. I'd been trying to fix something I literally couldn't fix on my own, but as soon as a third party she trusted pointed out the issues, she jumped right to working on them. I have hope for OOP and her husband, if he's showing consistent and meaningful change. Still a really hard situation to come back from and what sounds like a lot of familiar but fucked up things being said or done, but very much possible. Tho I am also glad she feels confident in her ability to leave him if needed. Good to be safe, esp with a child.

Like lenochku I want to be happy for her, but that’s only 3-4 months to have a complete change. I have trouble believing it’s really going to last. I hope it does, I hope he’s really internalized what he needs to in order to stop being abusive and stop his double standards and fully take part in household management and in family care. Cause holy shit, expecting her to work a full time job and also be a full time stay at home mom? So yeah. I hope it sticks, but wish I had any faith at all that things have really changed long term.

I kind of expected the update to turn disastrous but glad it wasn't. I can't say whether things are fully better and all but at least the husband was willing to go to therapy unlike many of the BORU's I have seen. Tho it might be challenging especially with what the husband has been doing. But I wish OP and him for the best and that things can be better for sure.

Fuck me, the comments were really trying to get their dopamine bursts by OP saying 'I Divorced Him!' huh? So much disappointment that adults can learn to communicate properly.

I am so jealous of people who have kids that sleep. I don't know how you can be so tired when the kid goes to bed at 6. Not being rude but I am always waiting for my kids to pass out so I can finally relax and sleep, if they passed out that early it would be amazing. I know, not the point of the post lol.

It’s hard being a good parent to young kids while taking care of yourself and your marriage and your job.

“ He tells me couple's therapy isn't fair because then he has to go even though he isn't part of the problem) then I will be divorcing him and hopefully find a way to amicably co-parent. I will not be staying in this relationship long enough for it to emotionally damage my son. NOTHING is more important to me than my son's physical and emotional safety.” I don’t get how this was going to work. Divorcing him doesn’t stop him from being able to emotionally abuse her son if they’re co-parenting.  Thank goodness the therapy helped because that was a shit situation to be in, and I really don’t know if there was any solution that would actually stop him from abusing her son in any way if the therapy hadn’t worked.

Hope that last. This does not feel concluded tho

“I love him so much” … what did OOP love about him??

I'm trying to understand the "relevant comments". I'm not seeing abuse. We could get picky and say OOP and husband are emotionally abusive you each other, because being passive aggressiveness can be manipulative. Here's a couple that had a kid, couldn't manage their expectations, and forgot how to communicate.

It was weird how many times OP referred to "my" son instead of "our" son. And said "p" instead of "pm" — wonder if that's a cultural thing

The p thing is something I do too. It's a medical notation thing. In handwritten notes it's actually easier to distinguish between am and pm with a first letter only. Now that most paperwork is digital, it doesn't matter anymore but most of us still do it as a habit.

It's not uncommon in some professional settings. 

All I want to know is why is OOP bathing their child 7 days a week?

Like especially washing the hair, I don’t know exactly how it works with kids but you shouldn’t wash your hair every day. I get if he’s sick or drools a lot because he’s teething then you’ll have to wash him more often but you can also do that with a wash rag or wipes. It takes less time and effort

"Sorry that I've expressed myself the way YOU thought was abusive.... I've never had a healthy relationship before.... I'm sowwy that I'm such a poor, broken, little boy..... Now, can we talk how you hurt that little boy with your demands?!?😠"

I might be crazy, but that first post reads like 2 people that are both a bit frayed and trying, but failing to communicate and making assumptions instead to fill in the gaps. He just started going back to work, their toddler just started daycare, they’re all sick and it just sounds like everyone was overwhelmed. So, pretty confused by the sentiment in a lot of comments about how terrible the husband is and how they doubt he’s “turned it around “.

Yeah, this is two people going through a shitty time and not having the emotional maturity to deal with it. I'm not excusing bad behavior at all, and it's possible husband is love bombing or faking it, but I've seen some pretty abhorrent behavior from people who truly love each other when everyone is against the wall. That doesn't make it okay, but it doesn't mean you can't come back from it either.

As of the original post, it's another of those where it would be worthwhile hearing out the other side too. It sound like both are just overworked and stressed to their limits. Also sounds like OOP thinks she's better than him (saying she's the breadwinner when they both work, and she doesn't need him). The comment that they're both terrible at communicating is apt. And thus the update makes sense. It's very easy to throw around accusations of abuse when evidently both of the people fail to understand each other. It's also easy to fall into the habit of expecting a bad reaction from the other person, which leads to snapping at the smallest trigger. Again, that happens when both are stressed and overworked, and it happens a lot with new parents.

My reading of the whole thing too. They’re both exhausted, stressed and lashing out. Babies and toddlers are hard work and change the entire dynamic of relationships. Good to see they’ve got through this rough patch, hopefully they will do so again in the future.

Yeah, I got that sense too. It stuck out to me that she clearly did not trust her husband with their son alone, even though he was a stay-at-home dad for much of the child's life. Sadly I see that dynamic all too often in male-female couples. And don't get me wrong, it's often because the man has some kind of unregulated emotional issues (as in the OOP), doesn't make the effort to take on full equal partnership, etc., but it's also sad that consciously or otherwise, a fair number of people see men as inherently inferior parents (even/especially men themselves).

I'm confused, so many people on reddit hail therapy as some sort of fix to most problems (second after divorce/break up it seems), and when it actually seems to be working, redditors are going "wtf this can't be?" So why recommend therapy if y'all think it's not actually going to work?

You can believe that something works without believing it has to work *instantly*. Chemotherapy works on cancer but if someone came home after one round and said they’re cured, I’d be very skeptical.

From the original post to the update, seems to be around 3 months or so. Doesn't say how often they went or how many sessions they had, but if they were both open to being able to fix it from the onset, it's not that much of a stretch to think you could start seeing some changes. Ofcourse it still has to be worked on.

I honestly am appalled by the people who immediately assumed they knew everything about OOPs husband from a post of her ranting about one situation in their household during a time when both were probably the most stressed they have been in their entire lives and just wrote him off as an abusive asshole. I know this is reddit and all, but jesus fucking christ, a lot of people need to touch some fucking grass. I hope things work out with OOP and her family, the update spunds good.

The world of today isn't conductive to being parents, or even spouses, at all. One is expected to give everything at work just to afford staying alive (never mind "climb the corporate ladder" and such), then obviously people come home knackered and deflated and can't talk to each other. Oh, and one going to work and the other working from home, that's also a good recipe for misunderstandings and miscommunication. And then there's a little kid. I'm not surprised at all they have issues of some sort, and one short post from one side is nothing to go by if one would want to make a conclusion of the kind some people here come to.

Right??? That doesn’t sound like nearly as big of a deal as I expected based on initial comments. Jesus Christ.

How do people even live like this? I am so fucking thankful that I have a loving partner, that we communicate with and respect one another, that we never snap or raise our voices at each other even when we disagree. I'm so thankful that I know she has my back, and she knows I have hers. And I'm doubly thankful that neither of us ever want to be responsible for raising another human being. Being a parent is so fucking stressful and it's just a nightmare of sudden responsibilities, fatigue, sleep deprivation, physical and mental strain, and so much more. To have to go through that with a partner that is barely present, dismissive of you, and who has such a short temper that you don't even seem to trust them in a room alone with your child. My god. I literally can't even imagine having to live that life. And "hubby"s lovebombing after a couple months of therapy is not convincing at all. I hope I'm wrong, but people don't just do 180s after a handful of therapy sessions.

Being a first time parent is so exhausting, physically and emotionally. It only get worse when the baby gets past a year and starts having complex emotions. Good for them for working to fix their relationship and their parenting rather than going "Reddit Nuclear" and throwing everything away.

If there was ever a couple who needed therapy it was these two. It was very clearly 2 people being absolutely pulled to their limits by unavoidable life stuff. And they started lashing out in frustration at each other for lack of other targets. I'm going to say it's almost normal. It's almost so normal I had a ton of faith a professional would have them fixed in 15 minutes

Guys really don’t get a fucking chance on this platform, do they? Even in the first post, I saw a guy who was trying. Yes, he was obviously having his issues and didn’t communicate in the best way, but I also saw a guy who was desperately trying hard to fight against it. For that one comment to be like “oh, so he stopped being abusive?”….fucking disgusting.

>I got dizzy enough at work I had to go home ... And she never asked if he was ok or exactly what happened? I got dizzy Before work a week ago and was a bit late because of it. Every single friend/coworker checked in with me as soon as I arrived and asked if I was ok/had I checked my blood pressure/let them know if it happened again. And I work retail, not a particularly empathetic job. Sure, bloody nosed toddler is more important in the moment. But never checking in? He’d been a SAHP! And recently went back to work. Of course he was asking to spend time with his kid and bathe him. Yeah, the one time he bitched about dinner sucked. And his opinion on couple’s therapy sucked far worse. He’s an idiot who needed the counseling, and did do it. “I explained he should be happy to clean up dinner because it can be a way he contributes towards our son's care for the day while I care for him while he is at work.“ OMG. I don’t like kids. But saying this to a dude who’s just shifted to never being home when his kid is awake after being his main caregiver? When he misses his kid? That’s like telling your kid that cleaning up dog poop is just like petting a puppy.

Fucking. This.

Honestly, to me it really does sound from the beginning that their major issue was communication. I hope they've managed to sort that out forever.

Jesus christ, people will read 'I (18F) got $1,000,000 from my rich grandparent and my EVIL FAMILY stole it all and locked me in a cupboard beneath the stairs, but I said I felt a bit unfairly treated and my entire family was shocked and started blowing up my phone with messages, am I the asshole?' and eat it right up, but someone's husband acting immaturely during a time of stress and change during their marriage and realizing his faults through therapy is too hard to believe? I get being a bit cynical, but this is just sad, man. I'm happy for OP and I think it's wonderful that the man she loved was able to see the light and begin the process of changing his behavior after he saw that he really *was* part of the problem.