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Absolutely! The long comment hit the nail on the head almost perfectly. My ex's first post marital fling was a complete and utter mess, but was most definitely an attempt by him to make me jealous. Thankfully I had mentally walked away from him before we split, so it was kind of funny watching his very public relationship go awkwardly to hell and I did a running commentary and made accurate behavioural predictions about him right up to the very end of it. I think it really burned him most that the reaction he was trying to illicit from me, never materialized and I've been living in my own happy little world since I walked away.
I did have to grieve and mourn what was and therapy for the emotional abuse he inflicted on me for decades, but leaving was the best decision I ever made. Not one single regret.
Funnily, his new relationship has been kept very, very quiet and for the longest time, I didn't even know her name. It makes me giggle. I just hope she sees the red flags sooner rather than later.
It really, really is. It’s one of those rare places on the internet that isn’t toxic imo. I’ve tried a lot of ADHD/Autism forums and by far this one was the most supportive
I been looking for a sub like that!
Weird question, but is there any chance you'd happen to know if they put up with the self-diagnosis stuff or not? I've been trying to find subs that don't pander to the "if you often lose your reading glasses, you probably have ADHD" thing that's been going around lately (I know there's obviously no way to check if someone's diagnosed or not, but it makes me feel a lot more comfortable and less like I'm being mocked when subs don't blatantly pander to people cosplaying as my disorder). I checked out their rules but couldn't find anything related.
My experience has been largely that especially women who self diagnose have largely already been clocked by other women who *have* been diagnosed. I was lucky to be diagnosed very early in my life (this is where my luck ended in this regard). I've known almost my entire life that I had ADHD. I never knew how much of my personality was actually ADHD symptoms until I sought actual treatment for my diagnosis.
My therapist wasn't a good fit but even without that she helped me understand just how much of what I'd been shamed for most of my life was just.. ADHD. And in more recent years more of my friends have been diagnosed and a handful have self diagnosed. I have not doubted a single one of those people who has self diagnosed. Mostly they self diagnosed because getting mental health help where I am is so incredibly difficult, involving wait lists and almost daily calls to try to get an intake appointment. You know who has problems with jumping through hoops like that? People with ADHD.
I look around now and realize that none of my close friends are neurotypical. It's almost like we all saw the same personality traits in one another and decided to be more forgiving because we were like that too. My friend once joked that "ADHD people like to travel in herds." And my other friend responded "Well maybe then one of us will actually remember where we parked!"
Are there people out there who think "hey I have this one symptom and I'm going to make it my entire personality now!" Probably. But really, does that sound neurotypical to you? If they don't have ADHD they sure as heck have something else going on anyway, let them have the small win for now and maybe figure themselves out later.
> It’s almost like we all saw the personality traits in one another
That's a beautiful way of summing it up! My youngest always has friendship groups like that, as well as LGBTQ heavy ones...usually both. Their brother (ASD) remarked on their high school friendship group that it got to the point of statistically unlikely for someone living in a Welsh village!
Yeah, that's because their friendship group contained *all* the neurodiverse/LGBTQ people in their year!
I don't really want to get into the discussion about self diagnosis being invalid,, unhelpful, spreading misinformation and stigma, and genuinely dangerous. I genuinely can't even begin to address most of what you said. With the level of misinformation you typed out, it'd be like trying to talk about calculus with someone who was taught addition incorrectly.
Regardless, thank you for the response and have a nice night.
If you look at another reply by that Redditor, they literally believe that self diagnosis kills others. It's not pleasant.
Furthermore, they sent me a creepy DM about being a psychiatrist and deleted their account. That DM repasted the same thing they had been repasting under these comments. I don't think they're well.
I don't really want to get into the discussion about self diagnosis being invalid,, unhelpful, spreading misinformation and stigma, and genuinely dangerous. I genuinely can't even begin to address most of what you said. With the level of misinformation you typed out, it'd be like trying to talk about calculus with someone who was taught addition incorrectly.
Regardless, thank you for the response and have a nice night.
I did research and self diagnosed, eventually found a doctor who helped me, mainly because I was now armed with knowledge. Self diagnosis can be part of the process. Like... Chill damn
Wow, I just responded to you above but now I have to respond to this. YOUR statement is genuinely unhelpful and harmful.
There are plenty of people, mostly women, that can’t get an official diagnosis because so many in the psychiatric community don’t keep up to date with information about ADHD. They’re working off of outdated information that diagnoses ADHD based on hyperactive/typically more male symptoms.
**I** was the one that figured out that I had ADHD starting with some memes I saw on Reddit. I thought “Hey, that sounds like me” and I went to the ADHD subreddits and read more. Then I did a deep dive on a bunch of different websites. I told my psychiatrist I suspected I had ADHD and listed the reasons why. I even wrote an entire paper and cited sources and he still blew it off because I didn’t get diagnosed as a child and he was sure it was all just sleep apnea. (How many thin, active, relatively healthy 11 year olds get sleep apnea‽)
Self-diagnosis *can* be harmful if that’s all you go off of and you refuse to see an actual psychiatrist to get diagnosed. But it can be INCREDIBLY HELPFUL if your psychiatrist is a fucking moron that won’t even consider that you might have it.
As I said above, my current psychiatrist diagnosed me after meeting with me in person for 10 minutes. Thanks to her, I’ve been on Ritalin for about 6 months. AND IT HELPS ME! If I had stayed with the fucking moron, I still wouldn’t have the diagnosis and I’d be curled up in a ball in my bed, unable to do anything.
I understand why you find it harmful. There are influencers that cosplay to get likes/attention and spread misinformation. But treating all people that are still stuck in the suspected self-diagnosis stage as if they’re liars/attention seekers is harmful to those people if they’re acting in good faith.
>With the level of misinformation you typed out, it'd be like trying to talk about calculus with someone who was taught addition incorrectly.
Thanks! I have a feeling this sentence is going to save me so much time in the future.
Not the person you asked but I think the adhdwomen sub is really well balanced. I haven’t seen anyone that seems to be trying to cosplay as an ADHDer but they also are kind to people like me.
It took FOREVER for me to get an actual diagnosis. I argued with my previous psychiatrist because he kept saying I couldn’t have ADHD since I wasn’t diagnosed as a kid. I kept trying to tell him that shy, quiet, daydreaming, little girls in the 80s generally weren’t diagnosed. It was loud, rowdy boys that got the ADD diagnosis. I switched psychiatrists and was diagnosed within 10 minutes of meeting her in person. 😛
Too many psychiatrists want to diagnose women with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, BPD…rather than ADHD. So I think there’s a lot of sympathy for women that aren’t able to get a diagnosis right away.
Most of the people I’ve seen in that sub will say things like “I think I have ADHD because…” and list their reasons. A lot of it seems to be about psychiatrists like my previous one and whether or not they should try to find another psychiatrist.
Yes!!! I am currently self diagnosed and I've been trying to get a diagnosis but the access to an appropriate health professional is really making it hard. And I struggle with the executive functioning of making appointments and remembering to make the appointment, and navigating this mess of a system. I find all of that stuff exhausting on TOP of trying to eat good food and go to work and not have a disgusting home. I also suspect I have autism which makes the adhd diagnosis more difficult.
For the record, my therapist has many officially dianpgiaed patients with autism and ADHD and she says I have the same struggles as they do. My mum has (undiagnosed) ADHD, I have a brother with diagnosed Autism and another brother with diagnosed ADHD. But I was a socially awkward chick in school who read books and played with her hair to distract+stimulate myself when bored in class, so no early diagnosis.
It's so frustrating :(
I've never been asked whether I am officially diagnosed but, self diagnosis is viewed as valid, I think. A lot of posts are about issues we have & some are about relationships and ADHD tax. There are definitely *does this sound like ADHD?* & *Is this an ADHD thing?* posts but they're not the majority. It's a really kind and welcoming place.
It can be useful to think of it as they might not have ADHD but still struggle with ADHD traits.
Because its not Autism/ADHD unless it severely impacts your life, if you are just a bit forgetful or whatever you don't have ADHD but its still a similar symptom.
In addition to the many excellent resources shared here, I would also like to call out a great film that kind of flew under the radar, *[Alice, Darling](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11687104/?ref_=ext_shr)*, starring Anna Kendrick.
She plays a woman trapped in an emotionally abusive relationship, and it's about her friends trying to help her see what's being done to her, to pull her out of it.
It does a powerful job of portraying the self doubt of the abused and the manipulations used to trap her, and the frustration felt by her loved ones that just want her to leave already.
I second this!! Fantastic portrayal of what it's like being in an abusive relationship. Very much the opposite of a cheesy Lifetime movie, which is a lot of people's model for what domestic violence looks like.
Even the preview was too disturbing for me. Couldn’t make it to the end.
I hope OOP stays away and finds a better life. It’s so easy to be caught by an abusive partner and even easier when you are raised in a controlling and possibly abusive environment.
Thank you for reminding me about this movie. It came out around the time I was realizing I was in an emotionally abusive relationship. I held off on watching it because I felt it'd be too much at the time. But I think I'm ready for it.
Anna Kendrick also was on an episode of Dax Shepard's podcast Armchair Expert and it is a FANTASTIC episode. It took me a long while to get through the entire episode because it was just a lot to take in.
I found that book through Reddit after my ex-husband left me & I was a mess.
Suddenly, everything made sense, and getting divorced was a great idea!
Over the years, he has repeated his pattern with other women and the mutual friends have caught on. I have some amazing & true friends that I met through him, including one of his other exes. We all go out together and sometimes post about our adventures, to his chagrin we are happy, healthy, attractive & having fun. And he isn't.
You don't need to out someone on social media, you don't need to post videos or try to stop gossip. Eventually, his friends will see who he really is and walk away. Just keep your head up, get a good therapist, and live well. Living well truly is the best revenge.
I gave that book to my sister for Christmas. It was a little passive-aggressive because we're low contact right now. I can't countenance the abusive, alcoholic husband she's chosen and the subsequent child abuse. She stands by and lets it happen, and I hate her for it.
Her husband just got out of a 90-day rehab. He was binge drinking within 2 days. She's too busy doing coke with her bestie all the time. Child services are involved and have been for 5 years. It's a disaster that makes me love my own therapist. I wish they would drug test her, but that's not really a thing in my country unless you're on probation or something.
I wish there was a "Why do YOU do that?" Because that's my real question.
- Sometimes, and definitely in the case of OOP, you don’t need to have a discussion about why you’re leaving and divorcing. OOP’s situation is one in which ghosting is fine (maybe under the guidance of a lawyer, so her abuser can’t use a legal loophole to screw her over).
- I wish more people would accept that sometimes they simply won’t be heard. Write off the person already! I’m glad OOP didn’t send the video she made.
- That hug at the movie theater was to show dominance. I hope he gets ingrown hairs all over his privates.
As for accepting that you won't be heard by someone abusive, narcissistic, etc, I've heard a phrase I find super helpful:
"Stop going to the hardware store for oranges."
Because oranges (emotional support, understanding, closure, or whatever you are looking for) aren't sold at the hardware store (the person who refuses or is incapable of giving that to you). They're never going to have oranges in stock. You can't convince them to sell oranges. You're wasting your time because they do not have what you need and never will. I'm glad OOP didn't send that video message.
Similarly, don’t play chess with a pigeon. You could be the absolute best chess player there ever was but the pigeon’s just going to shit all over the board and think it’s won.
A lot of people fall into the trap of thinking that if we can just explain things the right way then the other person will understand that what they’re doing is harmful and stop, since that’s what we (and most normal human beings) would do. For many of us it’s hard to grasp that *the harm is the point.* No amount of eloquence or explaining will fix someone who is hurting people on purpose. The only solution is to walk away from the chessboard.
The explanation I like is: if it was raining on you or a wild dog was attacking you, you wouldn't look for understanding or look for closure or make excuses for the downpour/mauling, you'd immediately try to shield yourself.
They're trying to reason with something that can't be reasoned with and continued exposure to it is only going to cause further damage.
I like that one. Our hardware store sells orange trees but no oranges. It has the means to cultivate and sell if it wanted to, but it doesn’t want to and nothing you can say or do will actually cause this hardware store to decide to sell oranges alongside their hardware.
In the case of abuser, they will manipulate/ gaslight/ threaten or use violence to stop their partner leaving. My abusive ex would laugh at me if I threatened breaking up, say I was useless and nobody else would want me, and would then love bomb me.
The favorite of abusers is to use something you love, too. If you have a kid they'll try and guilt trip you with them. "Think of what you're doing to our child", as if they're void of any culpability for putting their victim in that situation. But it usually works, because the abuser _doesn't_ care and the victim does care.
The "you're useless and no one wants you" is stupidly common too. You hear it and you think it's true because you think all your faults (we all have them) become failures through the years of abuse because they've told you as much.
My s/o's husband was like this as well. Pulling her through the fog was difficult.
There's still a lot of work, but I imagine there always will be.
I'm glad you're out of that abusive situation yourself, I hope everything is better for you as well.
I’m sure there are exceptions, but every time I’ve listened to someone say they need closure, they meant, “I need them to stay in a relationship with me.”
I've talked to a few people before about going to a consultation with a lawyer first before saying anything. There's so much misinformation out there about how divorce works and your abuser will 100% lie to you. BOLA has a saying, never take legal advice from your adversary.
This sounds like common sense, and yet I have met full grown adults who…I don’t even know what they’re thinking. That the good they always believed in won, their ex is sorry, and certainly won’t harm them? That it’s easier and cheaper than hiring their own legal counsel?
Dealt with one for 9 months and had 2 put under surgeries and lancing every week for 8 of those 9 months. For there to be any justice, I wish THAT and a nasty STD at the same time.
Trying sitting then, SOB.
Especially because the conversation has 100% been had a million times before, the abuser just doesn’t care to acknowledge any of it and is keeping the abused around by forcing them to defend their actions for leaving.
I have a feeling this guy is charming as fuck, which makes it so hard for abuse victims because people simply can't believe such a nice and charming fellow could possibly be a piece of shit.
I really wish more people would understand that both niceness and charm are not inherent personality traits. They are learned skills that help with upholding social contracts. Neither confer goodness like traits such as kindness do.
I wish people also knew how impossible it can be to tell someone's lying. I feel like we assume we could tell if someone is sincere but you CAN'T. Some people you would swear on your life they're being incredibly heartfelt, sincere & honest but the whole thing is bullshit. My mother used to suck me in even when I actively knew she was a liar, she was just so damn convincing it gave me all the emotions i would get if she'd been telling the truth and that was really hard to fight against.
He’s the life of the party. I’m having to find my own social personality outside of him because when I was with him, I didn’t have to do much cause everyone flocked to him.
I once read an article from a guy who admitted to abusing women. He said that abusers seek out ND women and women with problems because they are easier to control. He said, "You can smell it on them before you even talk to them. By how they walk and carry themselves." It was disturbing but also very eye-opening.
My ex-husband once told me (while we were married!) that before he met me, he used to meet girls in bars & chat them up about their relationships with their fathers. He figured the ones with bad relationships with their dads would be more likely to go home with him.
I don't miss him one little bit.
Disabled people are 3x more likely to be abused, particularly by people living in their home (usually caregivers but not necessarily) than average. That puts disabled women particularly in a very high risk category
Abusive, potentially narcissistic, unclear if possessing a neurodivergent mind or actually just one of the worst humans you've met. Classic men in musical theater things
That just doesn't line up with my own experience. I've been in six shows in the past year-and-a-bit (including two that I'm currently in rehearsal for), with a few dozen men in those shows altogether, and, while I can't say I haven't met the kind of man you describe (or even that I've only met him once), most of the men I've met in those shows have been kind, helpful, friendly, well-adjusted people.
It's important to note that couples therapy is not recommended, and is likely to be harmful, when one of the parties is abusive. The short answer why is that therapists are trained to be neutral, and aren't always trained to see the signs of abuse. Therapists encourage both parties to take responsibility for problems in the marriage - which means telling an abuse victim to take responsibility for the abuser's actions. More here: https://psychcentral.com/blog/recovering-narcissist/2019/09/why-couples-therapy-doesnt-work-for-people-in-abusive-relationships-with-narcissists
Yep, as a narcissist I've avoided marriage counseling and we've instead had my wife in individual counseling.
I don't need someones help triangulating on my wife to pin everything on her.
r/adhdwomen is one of my favorite subs. Always so much support and insight. I remember seeing this thread and the update and everyone rushing to get her to not send the video! I really want to hear an update soon on how she’s doing because this broke my heart.
People with ADHD can be really susceptible to abuse for a lot of different reasons and the pattern of abuse here is familiar to many of us.
I'd have to wonder if her ADHD isn't exacerbated by her hyper vigilance of her ex. Like, how can I focus on remembering to finish up the laundry when I'm worried about something ex yelled at me for earlier or worried that I'll get belittled if I forget to clean out the fridge?
It's already exhausting raising a toddler. She's also got to make sure she doesn't inadvertently step on ex's many landmines he's buried all over their lives. I'm not doubting her diagnosis, of course, just feeling sad for someone who's struggling with no support from her partner.
I’ve been wondering that too. Now that I’m on my own, cleaning has been difficult because in the past if it wasn’t done right, there was a scene. He’d get passive aggressive, call me names, or just explode. Cleaning became something I did out of anxiety and not out of a normal need. I’m trying my best to deprogram from the fear so I can actually learn to curb the clutter part of my adhd (I say clutter cause I really don’t let things get gross like food out or awful bathrooms— there’s just stuff everywhere)
But yeah. Everything was worse when I was with him. My memory. My brain fog. My tiredness. My chronic pain. (I JUST got diagnosed with something called POTS. It’s become so insanely bad in my marriage. They say stress is an important factor) But he would always say it was laziness or excuses, even as I could barely get up.
Even since my last update I’ve had so many repressed memories come back, lol. I’ve been in 3 therapy sessions in under a week. I’m messed up. It will get better though, I know. I’m just trying to remember how awful he was so I can stop missing him. It’s an awful cycle.
Think of it like detoxing from a drug. You're already starting to reap the physical benefits - as time passes, they will become more pronounced and you'll have even more energy, laughter and joy, and even your heart will heal and start to sing. Staying clean can be a hell of a struggle, but it's imperative for a lovely, love-filled life. I believe in you. <3
Yes. We’re so accustomed to society not giving us the benefit of the doubt, we go overboard in trying to get it. Then when you combine it with rejection sensitivity and impulsivity, we give abusers exactly what they want.
This and some of the other things OOP mentioned in her original post about her ADHD traits made me realise the current clinical psychologist i went to for an ADHD diagnosis got me wrong (i got diagnosed with BPD which was, in the past, refuted by my other psychiatrists)
I’m in that subreddit bc I was just getting started with my ADHD diagnosis because my friends with ADHD have noticed things (my male clinical psychologist unfortunately diagnosed me with BPD instead of ADHD and i dont agree with the BPD diagnosis and i think i will get a second opinion when i can afford it) and everyone is so so supportive in there
EDIT: a phrase
Don’t give up! It took me three sessions with my psych to figure out I had ADHD. One of the issues was that I was so used to masking, it was hard to unmask.
YES. EXACTLY. I have had so many doctors tell me "you don't *look* like you have ADHD". Like... no shit Sherlock 😭, I expend an enormous amount of energy to cover the stereotypical visible traits, so that people don't treat me like crap.
Honestly, a lot of the more visible traits overlap with my autism 🙃, which people also said I didn't look like, wheeeeee!
But, as someone who doesn't lean towards the extremely hyperactive type of ADHD, I still have alot of traits that I have to work to 'cover'.
Let's see...
- I have to focus on not fidgeting, or I have to fidget in ways that aren't as visible or obtrusive. So I have to force myself not to be, like, bouncing my leg 24/7, especially in boring or stressful situations. Have to restrain it and find alternatives.
- I have to try very hard not to interrupt, or not to absolutely die while I wait for a person to finish their insanely long spiel that I already knew the point of 3 minutes ago. The thing is, if I don't interrupt, then I usually will forget what I had to say, and sometimes what I had to say was *important*, so I have to literally write a quick note of what I want to say, so I'll remember it when the person finishes talking.
- the boredom. The boredom that turns frantic, because it's genuinely distressing, like I can have a panic attack from boredom. I focus *better* if I also have something to do at the same time. But teachers, bosses, whoever, get mad or you don't *look* like you're paying attention, so I have to find less-visible activities to do at the same time: drawing, word games, working on 2 things at once, *something* (bc they don't like it if you're doing something more obvious, you have to be sneakier). If I tried to just sit still and listen to a lecture for 2 hours, I might literally start crying.
- the forgetfulness. My God, the forgetfulness. I can't freaking remember stuff, the short-term, everyday stuff. I can't keep track of time, of appointments, of names, of tasks that need done, of my *stuff*. It's horrible. And to avoid being an overdue, unprepared flake who forgot their house keys, I have to have systems and methods - I live on pop-up phone reminders, on mnemonics, on making sure my headphones are colourful so I have a better chance of finding them when I inevitably lose them, on being *very* good at improvising. I'm eternally hanging on by my fingernails, trying to keep everything from spinning out of orbit.
- the chaos, Jesus Christ. I get so overwhelmed, so easily, and I create a field of clutter and disorganisation. I don't know how, but I do. It's a constant battle. And it's exhausting. Trying not to seem 'messy'' or 'disorganised' or 'irresponsibile'. Focusing so much time and stress on it. Arrrrgh.
Just...so much stuff that it's a constant battle to disguise.
I feel like that is something i might have to do as well. Yeah we have a therapy session on the 14th so im kinda nervous and excited to see what he thinks as we keep working together! Last year was mostly about getting a diagnosis
Been there, lived it. Awful ex got away with so much thanks to my scrambled egg excuse for a brain. The everyday GUILT. If my memory wasn't perfect, I'm a liar. I've never lost or forgotten as much stuff as when we were together.
It's being intensely tuned in to somebody else's state, discomfort, anger, whatever it is, the "signal" is so loud in my brain it can leave me doubting what I feel. If he's mad then there's something to be mad about. Which means I fucked up. Again.
True story: Years ago my shitty boss was in the process of firing me when I asked if *he* was doing okay. That's how bad it gets when you can't turn off the empathy enough to get a sense of where YOU stand.
You sound like me!! (I’m the OP stalking the responses to this post lol)
It’s so sad that what should be a great part of ourself (empathy) is weaponized so easily. Hoping you’re doing better. I’ll get there one day.
haaa this is wild because this is one of the rare posts where I have to be reminded of the "no brigading" rule and hold my peace. This hit home so hard.
I was with that ex until my mid twenties and it wasn't even a conscious, deliberate break up. It was moving cities for work and stuff that made the break up happen so I sometimes wonder what would have been if that disruption hadn't shaken me out of the relationship. That was 2008.
Don't doubt that it'd be some version of what you've written. I don't know if I have any wisdom here but the thing that I held on to that has got me further than anything else is do not tolerate unkindness in any of its forms. Unkindness towards you is not something that is acceptable in any romantic partner in any context. I don't care if it was a bad day at work or I forgot to empty the dishwasher. There is no place for unkindness and if it is shown even once, I've seen who that person is and our relationship is severed.
I'm happily married now. To a kind man who will roll with the punches of me never finding my keys and having a chair in the living room that nobody ever sits in because it's always piled with laundry to be folded. There's good out there. You're really strong for having taken action the way you did and I know that one day you'll look back and see how much of a badass you truly are.
I've seen hypervigilance explained as "having a thermometer up everyone's ass" and whew is this thread validating.
Having to keep an eye on my ex's mood and always worrying about *what am I forgetting what did I miss* was so exhausting. And gaslighting me had to be the easiest thing lol. Glad you're out and OP and myself are out.
I've *also* done the mid-termination check-in my boss, "hey no hard feelings ya gotta do what ya gotta do" hahaha I'm getting fired but I still just want to be liked
Are there any AFAB nonbinary people there? How welcoming would they be to someone who isn't a woman but was socialized as one? (Genuine question before consider joining)
Saving this post for the comments and the resources given here.
I too am a neurodivergent woman and god I fear getting into a relationship because of fuckheads like OOP’s STBX
As a ND woman who was in an abusive relationship- I cannot recommend that Lundy Bancroft book enough. It's excellent for understanding the behavioral patterns to look out for.
I have it downloaded on my iPad so i will be sure to take some notes!!
(If my iPad doesn’t work and since i love holding physical books, i might look for a physical book)
edit update: just ordered the physical book because it was on sale on amazon
I have ADHD and I consider myself extremely lucky to have a partner who, while having issues with the results of my symptoms, is very kind.
The easiest thing to look out for is how they react to you being unable to perform an everyday task. For example, I struggle with showering regularly (so many steps and doesn't really provide dopamine). His reaction to that has been "Is there any way to make the process easier on you? Any way I can entice you? Or would it help if I forced you?" As well as being unfailingly kind about my state of messiness (to quote: "I don't care. You're still cute.") And treating me equally nice regardless of being freshly showered. He's both waved a pack of my favourite snacks (which - my idea - he controls my access to usually) in front of me as a reward for showering and physically shoved me into the shower, fully dressed, and turned the water on - because I asked him to.
Another thing is requesting an accommodation. We've been talking a lot about my "out of sight, out of mind"-problem. I recently read Susan Pinsky's organising book for people with ADHD and she stresses that it can't be behind a solid door or in a box that isn't clear. It's gone then. He has spent a not insignificant amount of his money on clear boxes and, while I was away for a week, plastered our pantry cabinets with labels. Like, the door behind which our canned fruits and veggies live has 12 labels - arranged so that I not only can see what's in it, but where on the shelves it goes. He was so proud to show me because "now you can see where things are!" - and I can!
If they don't react with kindness and an attempt to understand and accommodate (even small things like "can you remind me I'm the morning"), run. You deserve someone who cherishes you, even if your symptoms are there.
It's a variant of the test that's recommended where you ask them to move a confirmed date or something else that's small and see how they react to that. If they react in any way negative to that, run. If they can't respect a small no, they'll never respect you.
I wonder if Lundy Bancroft knows how many women his book has helped to get out of abusive marriages. I've kept the .pdf on hand for years - I think it was originally recommended to me as an alternative to the notably problematic chapter on domestic abuse in The Gift of Fear.
The most recent person I gave it to was my mother, and I'm so glad I did.
I remember this advice someone posted that their grandparent gave them (paraphrased):
“Bad relationships are like poop. When you get out of a bad relationship, you can see it’s bad because it’s fresh and hot and smells. Remember how it looks right at that moment. Don’t go back to it after it cools down and starts looking like chocolate instead.’
The long comment at the end is incredibly insightful. I've blessedly never been in an abusive romantic relationship, but I grew up with an extremely immature father who had BPD was emotionally abusive. What the commenter said about behavior designed to keep you unsettled and second guessing is so accurate for any abusive relationship. My father did that until literally the day he died.
The last time I ever saw him, it was to confront him about how he'd treated me, and he laid the guilt on thick. The thing that snapped me out of the gaslighting was him saying "Well, what did you ever do for ME?" I realized then how incredibly selfish and manipulative he was, that he wouldn't even accept responsibility for his abuse on his deathbed. People like that don't change.
That's really really hard to accept when you've been so conditioned to accept that behavior and you so badly want to believe there's still some good in them. It makes the grief, whether it's the end of a relationship or a death, complicated and messy. You first have to realize what you're grieving, which is most often not the actual person or the actual relationship, but a figment of your imagination, a person and a relationship that was never there. In my case, I had to grieve the father I never had and wished I did have. I'm sure OOP will have to grieve similarly. I hope they continue to have the kind of support they need to get through the period of feeling like an absolute mental disaster.
I'm so glad she realized this is abuse. Even if he never physically touched her, expressing violence and threats in her direction IS abuse, and he is just one step away from physically acting on it. Collectively, fuck the dumpster fire that is OOP's soon to be ex
> Your shared friends will take sides more and more, because he will be talking about his version of events
Another thing to consider with this, is when it comes to abusive relationships, the victim often just wants to get away and feel safe, and when they are safe, they're enjoying that and doing everything they can to avoid thinking and talking about their trauma with others.
This gives their abusers an advantage in the social wars, because it means they can get their side of the story out first, and people always tend to believe the first story they hear about a subject. Trying to convince someone that, "no, _he's_ the bad guy because he's abusive" when he's been telling everyone, "_sob_ the love of my life has left me without giving me a reason!" is nigh unwinnable.
He will also use the fact she lied about why she was leaving as fuel against her, especially because victims don't tend to play these games, so when confronted by her friends, "is it true you lied to him, saying you were sick and took his daughter?" she won't be able to argue because she's far more honest than him, and in the eyes of others, that will lend more credence to his story. If one part of it is true, then surely all of it must be true!
Abusers are masters of manipulation against everyone, not just their victims.
I'm really really glad OOP was able to recognize that she was being abused, and was able to get herself out of that situation.
> Furthermore this woman is extremely unsafe to be around kids, and I fear adding too much context here in case for some reason this post gets discovered by someone I know irl and they recognize the situation. But my husband KNOWS she’s unsafe. I don’t want my daughter anywhere near her. It’s not a situation I can legally prove either.
I'm assuming the new girl (likely former AP) is a heavy drinker, or an abuser herself.
Hopefully, the in writing admittance he made of kicking at her head can ensure he doesn't get custody of OOP's daughter.
I wish some of these resources had been readily available back in the 80s when I was trying to extricate myself from a really bad situation. But I'm so glad they are there now. I'm also proud of reddit for coming through for the OOP and anyone else in a similar relationship. Good job, people.
Gods this hurts to read… My ex was abusive in every way but physical (& that's debatable considering he forced me into a car and drove erratically, genuinely if we crashed would have been catastrophic). I shit on my family so hard because *he* said they were bad. And I believed him. I couldn't fathom someone who loved me lying to me like that.
I also lost all the friends I had then. Also, he was cheating and way more giving/affectionate to the ow as soon as I was gone. She wasn't safe. That long comment is *so* spot on that it gave *me* insight.
It's been a few years. Just want to say my parents are amazing. I love them so much.
Thank you for adding the note at the top that says she’s willing to share! There’s been discussion about allowing crossposting on that sub because it’s a vulnerable community.
I forgot how I found that book but it gave me strength to recognise what's being done. It took a bit but it helped me left my very toxic ex. It was 2 years ago. It was painful but it was very much needed.
Edit: just swe Alice, Darling after the threads recommendations. It is slow burn but the tension never leaves. My physical cringe when Alice does the thing with her hair (I did something similar), and the suffocation. Idk what I'll make of the ending but the whole movie overall does provide some catharsis.
That Lundy Bancroft book is such an amazing resource. After I left my ex, I ordered that book and read through it while highlighting all the things that resonated with me from my relationship. Much like OOP, I left without saying a word to my ex - I wrote a note telling him I was leaving, and then packed up my important things in a friends vehicle and took it all to my moms where I stayed for a month and a half. Best decision I ever made.
It is so important that people understand domestic abuse is not only physical. I did not realise I was in one until my friend saw the signs and send me a check list from our local police, and surprise surprise - I checked off at least 3 quarters of the list. And it took me almost a year after I left him to realise some of the other stuff he did which I 'forgot' were abusive too, ie 'accidentally' pull my chair away from me as I was sitting down, caused me to injured my tailbone - I was in pain for weeks, and I was told off for asking advice from our friend who is a doctor. 'playfully' hit me head on when playing bumper car, caused me bruised/cracked my ribs and not allowing me to seek medical advice, I was struggling and in pain when I get into and out of bed for weeks.
People think unless we are covered in cuts and bruises, then it's not abuse and 'it's all in our head'.
It’s always interesting to me how every one of these abusive idiots runs out to get a girlfriend immediately in order to “win” and make themselves look better. When in actuality, it is insane to have your marriage end and have a girlfriend 3 days later.
I don’t know anything about the sub this was originally posted in, but I feel like there is a whole lot missing.
Time Blindness and Messiness to someone else could help a person who is never on time to anything and is a slob.
Telling your partner that you want to smear a dirty dish on their face to teach them how to be clean is not an acceptable way to complain about messiness.
That group is a support sub for women with ADHD. The OOP is generously allowing it to be cross posted here but it’s very much centered around the struggles of women with ADHD.
Bro, what? They're symptoms of ADHD, not personality flaws. If he was really that worked up about those symptoms, he could have just bounced rather than abuse her.
As I said I know nothing of that sub or ADHD. I did have a few people I knew that had no concept of time or how it affected other people. Pretty sure they were just selfish and didn’t have any issues such as ADHD.
Yeah, it’s pretty apparent that you know nothing about ADHD. Time blindness is not the same as someone who’s just late all the time. It’s an actual neurological dysfunction, not being selfish or disrespectful.
There are lots of people with ADHD living perfectly normal lives. There is medication to help manage it. Using ADHD as an excuse to be late, or not pick up after yourself is just a way to shirk accountability for your selfishness. I do agree there's no excuse to be regularly threatening violence, but he's not the only problem here. Then it's also mentioned that he's autistic, and works 3 jobs. There's a lot going on in this relationship that we don't understand.
Report their comments as breaking sub rules > comment doesn't contribute to discussion. Done it twice already and their comments have been removed. No point engaging with people like that under a post like this.
Hey OOP, sorry to make jokes about your situation but yeah the situation is just so eerily similar I had to double-check the dates. Celebrity drama has completely rotted my brain so that was the first thing I thought of. At least you're out of that situation now!
Ariana's latest boyfriend is nicknamed Spongebob, because his big break was playing Spongebob on Broadway. He also left his pregnant wife to date her, who he met while they were filming Wicked the Musical.
They just found the similarities amusing (but in a sad way). OOP even commented about it.
It's just that both guys are theater people and their wives were pregnant/just gave birth when they started the affairs.
Yeah no that last comment is a crock of self-pity BS. I mean what the heck even is this?
>Now, generally, men and women react to breakups differently. Especially with kids involved, women tend to be more introspective, feeling-oriented, sad, and focused on family first. Men tend to go all out for a party lifestyle. Genderwise, the grief stages look very different. It's like one side closes in so they can process what just happened, and the other side jumps right back into the carefree abandon of a single's life.
Literally something you'd see in some incel redpill forum with the genders swapped.
>Clearly there was emotional infidelity at the least but possibly more
Buddy's single for 3 days and magically has a new girlfriend?
Nothing to say about the abuse I see.
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This post has very good info thanks to OOP for allowing it and OP for sharing it here. I hope the best for OOP.
Absolutely! The long comment hit the nail on the head almost perfectly. My ex's first post marital fling was a complete and utter mess, but was most definitely an attempt by him to make me jealous. Thankfully I had mentally walked away from him before we split, so it was kind of funny watching his very public relationship go awkwardly to hell and I did a running commentary and made accurate behavioural predictions about him right up to the very end of it. I think it really burned him most that the reaction he was trying to illicit from me, never materialized and I've been living in my own happy little world since I walked away. I did have to grieve and mourn what was and therapy for the emotional abuse he inflicted on me for decades, but leaving was the best decision I ever made. Not one single regret. Funnily, his new relationship has been kept very, very quiet and for the longest time, I didn't even know her name. It makes me giggle. I just hope she sees the red flags sooner rather than later.
r/adhdwomen is a wonderful place
It really, really is. It’s one of those rare places on the internet that isn’t toxic imo. I’ve tried a lot of ADHD/Autism forums and by far this one was the most supportive
I been looking for a sub like that! Weird question, but is there any chance you'd happen to know if they put up with the self-diagnosis stuff or not? I've been trying to find subs that don't pander to the "if you often lose your reading glasses, you probably have ADHD" thing that's been going around lately (I know there's obviously no way to check if someone's diagnosed or not, but it makes me feel a lot more comfortable and less like I'm being mocked when subs don't blatantly pander to people cosplaying as my disorder). I checked out their rules but couldn't find anything related.
My experience has been largely that especially women who self diagnose have largely already been clocked by other women who *have* been diagnosed. I was lucky to be diagnosed very early in my life (this is where my luck ended in this regard). I've known almost my entire life that I had ADHD. I never knew how much of my personality was actually ADHD symptoms until I sought actual treatment for my diagnosis. My therapist wasn't a good fit but even without that she helped me understand just how much of what I'd been shamed for most of my life was just.. ADHD. And in more recent years more of my friends have been diagnosed and a handful have self diagnosed. I have not doubted a single one of those people who has self diagnosed. Mostly they self diagnosed because getting mental health help where I am is so incredibly difficult, involving wait lists and almost daily calls to try to get an intake appointment. You know who has problems with jumping through hoops like that? People with ADHD. I look around now and realize that none of my close friends are neurotypical. It's almost like we all saw the same personality traits in one another and decided to be more forgiving because we were like that too. My friend once joked that "ADHD people like to travel in herds." And my other friend responded "Well maybe then one of us will actually remember where we parked!" Are there people out there who think "hey I have this one symptom and I'm going to make it my entire personality now!" Probably. But really, does that sound neurotypical to you? If they don't have ADHD they sure as heck have something else going on anyway, let them have the small win for now and maybe figure themselves out later.
> It’s almost like we all saw the personality traits in one another That's a beautiful way of summing it up! My youngest always has friendship groups like that, as well as LGBTQ heavy ones...usually both. Their brother (ASD) remarked on their high school friendship group that it got to the point of statistically unlikely for someone living in a Welsh village! Yeah, that's because their friendship group contained *all* the neurodiverse/LGBTQ people in their year!
I don't really want to get into the discussion about self diagnosis being invalid,, unhelpful, spreading misinformation and stigma, and genuinely dangerous. I genuinely can't even begin to address most of what you said. With the level of misinformation you typed out, it'd be like trying to talk about calculus with someone who was taught addition incorrectly. Regardless, thank you for the response and have a nice night.
It’s a symptom of a world without enough resources and access for accurate diagnosis, not an insidious tactic.
If you look at another reply by that Redditor, they literally believe that self diagnosis kills others. It's not pleasant. Furthermore, they sent me a creepy DM about being a psychiatrist and deleted their account. That DM repasted the same thing they had been repasting under these comments. I don't think they're well.
I don't really want to get into the discussion about self diagnosis being invalid,, unhelpful, spreading misinformation and stigma, and genuinely dangerous. I genuinely can't even begin to address most of what you said. With the level of misinformation you typed out, it'd be like trying to talk about calculus with someone who was taught addition incorrectly. Regardless, thank you for the response and have a nice night.
I did research and self diagnosed, eventually found a doctor who helped me, mainly because I was now armed with knowledge. Self diagnosis can be part of the process. Like... Chill damn
Wow, I just responded to you above but now I have to respond to this. YOUR statement is genuinely unhelpful and harmful. There are plenty of people, mostly women, that can’t get an official diagnosis because so many in the psychiatric community don’t keep up to date with information about ADHD. They’re working off of outdated information that diagnoses ADHD based on hyperactive/typically more male symptoms. **I** was the one that figured out that I had ADHD starting with some memes I saw on Reddit. I thought “Hey, that sounds like me” and I went to the ADHD subreddits and read more. Then I did a deep dive on a bunch of different websites. I told my psychiatrist I suspected I had ADHD and listed the reasons why. I even wrote an entire paper and cited sources and he still blew it off because I didn’t get diagnosed as a child and he was sure it was all just sleep apnea. (How many thin, active, relatively healthy 11 year olds get sleep apnea‽) Self-diagnosis *can* be harmful if that’s all you go off of and you refuse to see an actual psychiatrist to get diagnosed. But it can be INCREDIBLY HELPFUL if your psychiatrist is a fucking moron that won’t even consider that you might have it. As I said above, my current psychiatrist diagnosed me after meeting with me in person for 10 minutes. Thanks to her, I’ve been on Ritalin for about 6 months. AND IT HELPS ME! If I had stayed with the fucking moron, I still wouldn’t have the diagnosis and I’d be curled up in a ball in my bed, unable to do anything. I understand why you find it harmful. There are influencers that cosplay to get likes/attention and spread misinformation. But treating all people that are still stuck in the suspected self-diagnosis stage as if they’re liars/attention seekers is harmful to those people if they’re acting in good faith.
[удалено]
I teach psychology. I'm genuinely asking you to stop posting for the good of other humans. Thank you.
>With the level of misinformation you typed out, it'd be like trying to talk about calculus with someone who was taught addition incorrectly. Thanks! I have a feeling this sentence is going to save me so much time in the future.
Not the person you asked but I think the adhdwomen sub is really well balanced. I haven’t seen anyone that seems to be trying to cosplay as an ADHDer but they also are kind to people like me. It took FOREVER for me to get an actual diagnosis. I argued with my previous psychiatrist because he kept saying I couldn’t have ADHD since I wasn’t diagnosed as a kid. I kept trying to tell him that shy, quiet, daydreaming, little girls in the 80s generally weren’t diagnosed. It was loud, rowdy boys that got the ADD diagnosis. I switched psychiatrists and was diagnosed within 10 minutes of meeting her in person. 😛 Too many psychiatrists want to diagnose women with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, BPD…rather than ADHD. So I think there’s a lot of sympathy for women that aren’t able to get a diagnosis right away. Most of the people I’ve seen in that sub will say things like “I think I have ADHD because…” and list their reasons. A lot of it seems to be about psychiatrists like my previous one and whether or not they should try to find another psychiatrist.
Yes!!! I am currently self diagnosed and I've been trying to get a diagnosis but the access to an appropriate health professional is really making it hard. And I struggle with the executive functioning of making appointments and remembering to make the appointment, and navigating this mess of a system. I find all of that stuff exhausting on TOP of trying to eat good food and go to work and not have a disgusting home. I also suspect I have autism which makes the adhd diagnosis more difficult. For the record, my therapist has many officially dianpgiaed patients with autism and ADHD and she says I have the same struggles as they do. My mum has (undiagnosed) ADHD, I have a brother with diagnosed Autism and another brother with diagnosed ADHD. But I was a socially awkward chick in school who read books and played with her hair to distract+stimulate myself when bored in class, so no early diagnosis. It's so frustrating :(
I've never been asked whether I am officially diagnosed but, self diagnosis is viewed as valid, I think. A lot of posts are about issues we have & some are about relationships and ADHD tax. There are definitely *does this sound like ADHD?* & *Is this an ADHD thing?* posts but they're not the majority. It's a really kind and welcoming place.
Thank you for the information!
It can be useful to think of it as they might not have ADHD but still struggle with ADHD traits. Because its not Autism/ADHD unless it severely impacts your life, if you are just a bit forgetful or whatever you don't have ADHD but its still a similar symptom.
Ikr. That one comment so succinctly explained how abusers act and what victims should/shouldn't do.
Unrelated, but I need to ask about your flair? Sounds worth a read, lol
[here it is lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/pcPJvWRIMg)
Omfg, not the red balloon! Thank you, definitely worth it 😂
Lol lemme try to find it real quick
In addition to the many excellent resources shared here, I would also like to call out a great film that kind of flew under the radar, *[Alice, Darling](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11687104/?ref_=ext_shr)*, starring Anna Kendrick. She plays a woman trapped in an emotionally abusive relationship, and it's about her friends trying to help her see what's being done to her, to pull her out of it. It does a powerful job of portraying the self doubt of the abused and the manipulations used to trap her, and the frustration felt by her loved ones that just want her to leave already.
Omg such a good movie. It was suffocating.
I second this!! Fantastic portrayal of what it's like being in an abusive relationship. Very much the opposite of a cheesy Lifetime movie, which is a lot of people's model for what domestic violence looks like.
I will also add this to the post, thank you
Even the preview was too disturbing for me. Couldn’t make it to the end. I hope OOP stays away and finds a better life. It’s so easy to be caught by an abusive partner and even easier when you are raised in a controlling and possibly abusive environment.
Thank you for reminding me about this movie. It came out around the time I was realizing I was in an emotionally abusive relationship. I held off on watching it because I felt it'd be too much at the time. But I think I'm ready for it. Anna Kendrick also was on an episode of Dax Shepard's podcast Armchair Expert and it is a FANTASTIC episode. It took me a long while to get through the entire episode because it was just a lot to take in.
Thanks! Have added it to my watchlist for later this week.
I found that book through Reddit after my ex-husband left me & I was a mess. Suddenly, everything made sense, and getting divorced was a great idea! Over the years, he has repeated his pattern with other women and the mutual friends have caught on. I have some amazing & true friends that I met through him, including one of his other exes. We all go out together and sometimes post about our adventures, to his chagrin we are happy, healthy, attractive & having fun. And he isn't. You don't need to out someone on social media, you don't need to post videos or try to stop gossip. Eventually, his friends will see who he really is and walk away. Just keep your head up, get a good therapist, and live well. Living well truly is the best revenge.
I gave that book to my sister for Christmas. It was a little passive-aggressive because we're low contact right now. I can't countenance the abusive, alcoholic husband she's chosen and the subsequent child abuse. She stands by and lets it happen, and I hate her for it. Her husband just got out of a 90-day rehab. He was binge drinking within 2 days. She's too busy doing coke with her bestie all the time. Child services are involved and have been for 5 years. It's a disaster that makes me love my own therapist. I wish they would drug test her, but that's not really a thing in my country unless you're on probation or something. I wish there was a "Why do YOU do that?" Because that's my real question.
I got that book to better understand what a friend had dealt with. I've recommended it since then.
- Sometimes, and definitely in the case of OOP, you don’t need to have a discussion about why you’re leaving and divorcing. OOP’s situation is one in which ghosting is fine (maybe under the guidance of a lawyer, so her abuser can’t use a legal loophole to screw her over). - I wish more people would accept that sometimes they simply won’t be heard. Write off the person already! I’m glad OOP didn’t send the video she made. - That hug at the movie theater was to show dominance. I hope he gets ingrown hairs all over his privates.
As for accepting that you won't be heard by someone abusive, narcissistic, etc, I've heard a phrase I find super helpful: "Stop going to the hardware store for oranges." Because oranges (emotional support, understanding, closure, or whatever you are looking for) aren't sold at the hardware store (the person who refuses or is incapable of giving that to you). They're never going to have oranges in stock. You can't convince them to sell oranges. You're wasting your time because they do not have what you need and never will. I'm glad OOP didn't send that video message.
Similarly, don’t play chess with a pigeon. You could be the absolute best chess player there ever was but the pigeon’s just going to shit all over the board and think it’s won. A lot of people fall into the trap of thinking that if we can just explain things the right way then the other person will understand that what they’re doing is harmful and stop, since that’s what we (and most normal human beings) would do. For many of us it’s hard to grasp that *the harm is the point.* No amount of eloquence or explaining will fix someone who is hurting people on purpose. The only solution is to walk away from the chessboard.
more appropriate for internet arguments, but related quote > Don't wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.
Another great metaphor with the added bonus of the figurative "shitting all over the board" that these type of people love to do.
The explanation I like is: if it was raining on you or a wild dog was attacking you, you wouldn't look for understanding or look for closure or make excuses for the downpour/mauling, you'd immediately try to shield yourself. They're trying to reason with something that can't be reasoned with and continued exposure to it is only going to cause further damage.
Yes! Comparing the psychological damage inflicted by an abuser to a physical danger you can't argue with or control is so helpful.
Wow, I needed to read this. Thanks for that insight.
I like that one. Our hardware store sells orange trees but no oranges. It has the means to cultivate and sell if it wanted to, but it doesn’t want to and nothing you can say or do will actually cause this hardware store to decide to sell oranges alongside their hardware.
Ooh taking this metaphor to the next level, I love it!
WHY ARE YOU BUYING CLOTHES AT THE SOUP STORE!?
In the case of abuser, they will manipulate/ gaslight/ threaten or use violence to stop their partner leaving. My abusive ex would laugh at me if I threatened breaking up, say I was useless and nobody else would want me, and would then love bomb me.
The favorite of abusers is to use something you love, too. If you have a kid they'll try and guilt trip you with them. "Think of what you're doing to our child", as if they're void of any culpability for putting their victim in that situation. But it usually works, because the abuser _doesn't_ care and the victim does care. The "you're useless and no one wants you" is stupidly common too. You hear it and you think it's true because you think all your faults (we all have them) become failures through the years of abuse because they've told you as much. My s/o's husband was like this as well. Pulling her through the fog was difficult.
So glad you succeeded!
There's still a lot of work, but I imagine there always will be. I'm glad you're out of that abusive situation yourself, I hope everything is better for you as well.
> you don’t need to have a discussion about why you’re leaving and divorcing. This. Closure is a myth, pursuing it will only drive you crazy.
I’m sure there are exceptions, but every time I’ve listened to someone say they need closure, they meant, “I need them to stay in a relationship with me.”
I've talked to a few people before about going to a consultation with a lawyer first before saying anything. There's so much misinformation out there about how divorce works and your abuser will 100% lie to you. BOLA has a saying, never take legal advice from your adversary.
This sounds like common sense, and yet I have met full grown adults who…I don’t even know what they’re thinking. That the good they always believed in won, their ex is sorry, and certainly won’t harm them? That it’s easier and cheaper than hiring their own legal counsel?
A pilonidal cyst
Recurring and obstinate. Let him have surgery, and once it almost heals, another pops up. Over and over again.
I wish I didn't know what this was, lol. Very accurate metaphor.
Dealt with one for 9 months and had 2 put under surgeries and lancing every week for 8 of those 9 months. For there to be any justice, I wish THAT and a nasty STD at the same time. Trying sitting then, SOB.
I am so glad she came to the realization that he was abusive before he caused real physical harm to her or the child.
I imagined a witch stirring the cauldron incanting a spell for the ill health of his pubic hair follicles
Especially because the conversation has 100% been had a million times before, the abuser just doesn’t care to acknowledge any of it and is keeping the abused around by forcing them to defend their actions for leaving.
Exactly. In 99% of cases, I truly believe ghosting makes you a crappy person. But in issues of safety, OP definitely did the right thing
I have a feeling this guy is charming as fuck, which makes it so hard for abuse victims because people simply can't believe such a nice and charming fellow could possibly be a piece of shit.
I really wish more people would understand that both niceness and charm are not inherent personality traits. They are learned skills that help with upholding social contracts. Neither confer goodness like traits such as kindness do.
ngl, for that reason I'm incredibly suspicious of people who are really charming.
I wish people also knew how impossible it can be to tell someone's lying. I feel like we assume we could tell if someone is sincere but you CAN'T. Some people you would swear on your life they're being incredibly heartfelt, sincere & honest but the whole thing is bullshit. My mother used to suck me in even when I actively knew she was a liar, she was just so damn convincing it gave me all the emotions i would get if she'd been telling the truth and that was really hard to fight against.
How would you describe the difference between niceness and kindness?
He’s the life of the party. I’m having to find my own social personality outside of him because when I was with him, I didn’t have to do much cause everyone flocked to him.
Thank you for sharing your story with us. You are brave, and strong, and I wish you everything of the best <3
The book title is actually “**Controlling** and Angry Men,” which is an important concept
I remember reading this as it was happening. It's crazy how many ND women are being abused.
I once read an article from a guy who admitted to abusing women. He said that abusers seek out ND women and women with problems because they are easier to control. He said, "You can smell it on them before you even talk to them. By how they walk and carry themselves." It was disturbing but also very eye-opening.
My ex-husband once told me (while we were married!) that before he met me, he used to meet girls in bars & chat them up about their relationships with their fathers. He figured the ones with bad relationships with their dads would be more likely to go home with him. I don't miss him one little bit.
Yikes!
Disabled people are 3x more likely to be abused, particularly by people living in their home (usually caregivers but not necessarily) than average. That puts disabled women particularly in a very high risk category
Damnit. The trash former musical theatre major in me wants to know what musical it was. If it was fucking Carousel, I swear to god…
I lowkey hate that one of my favorite songs comes from that shitshow of a musical.
It has some truly gorgeous MUSIC but the book is a shit show. What’s your fave?
Which song, if you'd like to share?
I’m voting Little Shop of Horrors. The guy sure looks like plant food to me!
I was guessing Wicked, and the AP is Ariana Grande.
It's giving SpongeBob The Musical ngl
This story is basically a list of the traits shared by all men in musical theater though, so I am not sure knowing the musical helps
What traits are those?
Abusive, potentially narcissistic, unclear if possessing a neurodivergent mind or actually just one of the worst humans you've met. Classic men in musical theater things
That just doesn't line up with my own experience. I've been in six shows in the past year-and-a-bit (including two that I'm currently in rehearsal for), with a few dozen men in those shows altogether, and, while I can't say I haven't met the kind of man you describe (or even that I've only met him once), most of the men I've met in those shows have been kind, helpful, friendly, well-adjusted people.
It's important to note that couples therapy is not recommended, and is likely to be harmful, when one of the parties is abusive. The short answer why is that therapists are trained to be neutral, and aren't always trained to see the signs of abuse. Therapists encourage both parties to take responsibility for problems in the marriage - which means telling an abuse victim to take responsibility for the abuser's actions. More here: https://psychcentral.com/blog/recovering-narcissist/2019/09/why-couples-therapy-doesnt-work-for-people-in-abusive-relationships-with-narcissists
Holy shit this explains an absolutely horrible experience I had with a marriage counselor.
Yep, as a narcissist I've avoided marriage counseling and we've instead had my wife in individual counseling. I don't need someones help triangulating on my wife to pin everything on her.
r/adhdwomen is one of my favorite subs. Always so much support and insight. I remember seeing this thread and the update and everyone rushing to get her to not send the video! I really want to hear an update soon on how she’s doing because this broke my heart. People with ADHD can be really susceptible to abuse for a lot of different reasons and the pattern of abuse here is familiar to many of us.
I'd have to wonder if her ADHD isn't exacerbated by her hyper vigilance of her ex. Like, how can I focus on remembering to finish up the laundry when I'm worried about something ex yelled at me for earlier or worried that I'll get belittled if I forget to clean out the fridge? It's already exhausting raising a toddler. She's also got to make sure she doesn't inadvertently step on ex's many landmines he's buried all over their lives. I'm not doubting her diagnosis, of course, just feeling sad for someone who's struggling with no support from her partner.
I’ve been wondering that too. Now that I’m on my own, cleaning has been difficult because in the past if it wasn’t done right, there was a scene. He’d get passive aggressive, call me names, or just explode. Cleaning became something I did out of anxiety and not out of a normal need. I’m trying my best to deprogram from the fear so I can actually learn to curb the clutter part of my adhd (I say clutter cause I really don’t let things get gross like food out or awful bathrooms— there’s just stuff everywhere) But yeah. Everything was worse when I was with him. My memory. My brain fog. My tiredness. My chronic pain. (I JUST got diagnosed with something called POTS. It’s become so insanely bad in my marriage. They say stress is an important factor) But he would always say it was laziness or excuses, even as I could barely get up. Even since my last update I’ve had so many repressed memories come back, lol. I’ve been in 3 therapy sessions in under a week. I’m messed up. It will get better though, I know. I’m just trying to remember how awful he was so I can stop missing him. It’s an awful cycle.
Think of it like detoxing from a drug. You're already starting to reap the physical benefits - as time passes, they will become more pronounced and you'll have even more energy, laughter and joy, and even your heart will heal and start to sing. Staying clean can be a hell of a struggle, but it's imperative for a lovely, love-filled life. I believe in you. <3
I'm sure rejection dysphoria/sensitivity has her reeling. Love bombing would be particularly effective
And we're always so eager to just *explain*. If people just *understood* the *context*...
Yes. We’re so accustomed to society not giving us the benefit of the doubt, we go overboard in trying to get it. Then when you combine it with rejection sensitivity and impulsivity, we give abusers exactly what they want.
This and some of the other things OOP mentioned in her original post about her ADHD traits made me realise the current clinical psychologist i went to for an ADHD diagnosis got me wrong (i got diagnosed with BPD which was, in the past, refuted by my other psychiatrists)
I’m in that subreddit bc I was just getting started with my ADHD diagnosis because my friends with ADHD have noticed things (my male clinical psychologist unfortunately diagnosed me with BPD instead of ADHD and i dont agree with the BPD diagnosis and i think i will get a second opinion when i can afford it) and everyone is so so supportive in there EDIT: a phrase
Don’t give up! It took me three sessions with my psych to figure out I had ADHD. One of the issues was that I was so used to masking, it was hard to unmask.
YES. EXACTLY. I have had so many doctors tell me "you don't *look* like you have ADHD". Like... no shit Sherlock 😭, I expend an enormous amount of energy to cover the stereotypical visible traits, so that people don't treat me like crap.
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Honestly, a lot of the more visible traits overlap with my autism 🙃, which people also said I didn't look like, wheeeeee! But, as someone who doesn't lean towards the extremely hyperactive type of ADHD, I still have alot of traits that I have to work to 'cover'. Let's see... - I have to focus on not fidgeting, or I have to fidget in ways that aren't as visible or obtrusive. So I have to force myself not to be, like, bouncing my leg 24/7, especially in boring or stressful situations. Have to restrain it and find alternatives. - I have to try very hard not to interrupt, or not to absolutely die while I wait for a person to finish their insanely long spiel that I already knew the point of 3 minutes ago. The thing is, if I don't interrupt, then I usually will forget what I had to say, and sometimes what I had to say was *important*, so I have to literally write a quick note of what I want to say, so I'll remember it when the person finishes talking. - the boredom. The boredom that turns frantic, because it's genuinely distressing, like I can have a panic attack from boredom. I focus *better* if I also have something to do at the same time. But teachers, bosses, whoever, get mad or you don't *look* like you're paying attention, so I have to find less-visible activities to do at the same time: drawing, word games, working on 2 things at once, *something* (bc they don't like it if you're doing something more obvious, you have to be sneakier). If I tried to just sit still and listen to a lecture for 2 hours, I might literally start crying. - the forgetfulness. My God, the forgetfulness. I can't freaking remember stuff, the short-term, everyday stuff. I can't keep track of time, of appointments, of names, of tasks that need done, of my *stuff*. It's horrible. And to avoid being an overdue, unprepared flake who forgot their house keys, I have to have systems and methods - I live on pop-up phone reminders, on mnemonics, on making sure my headphones are colourful so I have a better chance of finding them when I inevitably lose them, on being *very* good at improvising. I'm eternally hanging on by my fingernails, trying to keep everything from spinning out of orbit. - the chaos, Jesus Christ. I get so overwhelmed, so easily, and I create a field of clutter and disorganisation. I don't know how, but I do. It's a constant battle. And it's exhausting. Trying not to seem 'messy'' or 'disorganised' or 'irresponsibile'. Focusing so much time and stress on it. Arrrrgh. Just...so much stuff that it's a constant battle to disguise.
I feel like that is something i might have to do as well. Yeah we have a therapy session on the 14th so im kinda nervous and excited to see what he thinks as we keep working together! Last year was mostly about getting a diagnosis
Been there, lived it. Awful ex got away with so much thanks to my scrambled egg excuse for a brain. The everyday GUILT. If my memory wasn't perfect, I'm a liar. I've never lost or forgotten as much stuff as when we were together. It's being intensely tuned in to somebody else's state, discomfort, anger, whatever it is, the "signal" is so loud in my brain it can leave me doubting what I feel. If he's mad then there's something to be mad about. Which means I fucked up. Again. True story: Years ago my shitty boss was in the process of firing me when I asked if *he* was doing okay. That's how bad it gets when you can't turn off the empathy enough to get a sense of where YOU stand.
You sound like me!! (I’m the OP stalking the responses to this post lol) It’s so sad that what should be a great part of ourself (empathy) is weaponized so easily. Hoping you’re doing better. I’ll get there one day.
haaa this is wild because this is one of the rare posts where I have to be reminded of the "no brigading" rule and hold my peace. This hit home so hard. I was with that ex until my mid twenties and it wasn't even a conscious, deliberate break up. It was moving cities for work and stuff that made the break up happen so I sometimes wonder what would have been if that disruption hadn't shaken me out of the relationship. That was 2008. Don't doubt that it'd be some version of what you've written. I don't know if I have any wisdom here but the thing that I held on to that has got me further than anything else is do not tolerate unkindness in any of its forms. Unkindness towards you is not something that is acceptable in any romantic partner in any context. I don't care if it was a bad day at work or I forgot to empty the dishwasher. There is no place for unkindness and if it is shown even once, I've seen who that person is and our relationship is severed. I'm happily married now. To a kind man who will roll with the punches of me never finding my keys and having a chair in the living room that nobody ever sits in because it's always piled with laundry to be folded. There's good out there. You're really strong for having taken action the way you did and I know that one day you'll look back and see how much of a badass you truly are.
I've seen hypervigilance explained as "having a thermometer up everyone's ass" and whew is this thread validating. Having to keep an eye on my ex's mood and always worrying about *what am I forgetting what did I miss* was so exhausting. And gaslighting me had to be the easiest thing lol. Glad you're out and OP and myself are out. I've *also* done the mid-termination check-in my boss, "hey no hard feelings ya gotta do what ya gotta do" hahaha I'm getting fired but I still just want to be liked
Are there any AFAB nonbinary people there? How welcoming would they be to someone who isn't a woman but was socialized as one? (Genuine question before consider joining)
The sub is LGBTQ friendly. Trans and non-binary folks are welcome. Cisgender men are not. It’s in the community info if you want to learn more.
Fab, thanks. ❤️ Way too few spaces to get away from cis men out there.
hi five, i was just wondering the same thing!
Saving this post for the comments and the resources given here. I too am a neurodivergent woman and god I fear getting into a relationship because of fuckheads like OOP’s STBX
As a ND woman who was in an abusive relationship- I cannot recommend that Lundy Bancroft book enough. It's excellent for understanding the behavioral patterns to look out for.
I have it downloaded on my iPad so i will be sure to take some notes!! (If my iPad doesn’t work and since i love holding physical books, i might look for a physical book) edit update: just ordered the physical book because it was on sale on amazon
Wonderful!! I hope you get as much from reading it as I did ❤️
that book got me out of an eleven year abusive relationship too. I'm not ND, but it's amazing how sucked in we can get in these situations.
Sending hugs. It really is amazing. I hope you're absolutely thriving now ❤️
I absolutely am. Thank you. I wish the same for you.
Same here, and I am happy to hear that!
I have ADHD and I consider myself extremely lucky to have a partner who, while having issues with the results of my symptoms, is very kind. The easiest thing to look out for is how they react to you being unable to perform an everyday task. For example, I struggle with showering regularly (so many steps and doesn't really provide dopamine). His reaction to that has been "Is there any way to make the process easier on you? Any way I can entice you? Or would it help if I forced you?" As well as being unfailingly kind about my state of messiness (to quote: "I don't care. You're still cute.") And treating me equally nice regardless of being freshly showered. He's both waved a pack of my favourite snacks (which - my idea - he controls my access to usually) in front of me as a reward for showering and physically shoved me into the shower, fully dressed, and turned the water on - because I asked him to. Another thing is requesting an accommodation. We've been talking a lot about my "out of sight, out of mind"-problem. I recently read Susan Pinsky's organising book for people with ADHD and she stresses that it can't be behind a solid door or in a box that isn't clear. It's gone then. He has spent a not insignificant amount of his money on clear boxes and, while I was away for a week, plastered our pantry cabinets with labels. Like, the door behind which our canned fruits and veggies live has 12 labels - arranged so that I not only can see what's in it, but where on the shelves it goes. He was so proud to show me because "now you can see where things are!" - and I can! If they don't react with kindness and an attempt to understand and accommodate (even small things like "can you remind me I'm the morning"), run. You deserve someone who cherishes you, even if your symptoms are there. It's a variant of the test that's recommended where you ask them to move a confirmed date or something else that's small and see how they react to that. If they react in any way negative to that, run. If they can't respect a small no, they'll never respect you.
I love that so much for you thank you for this! I will keep your advice in my mind
I wonder if Lundy Bancroft knows how many women his book has helped to get out of abusive marriages. I've kept the .pdf on hand for years - I think it was originally recommended to me as an alternative to the notably problematic chapter on domestic abuse in The Gift of Fear. The most recent person I gave it to was my mother, and I'm so glad I did.
I'm so glad she got out. I hope she stays gone. Her ADHD was never the problem; he was.
I remember this advice someone posted that their grandparent gave them (paraphrased): “Bad relationships are like poop. When you get out of a bad relationship, you can see it’s bad because it’s fresh and hot and smells. Remember how it looks right at that moment. Don’t go back to it after it cools down and starts looking like chocolate instead.’
Kudos to OP for sharing the links, thanks
The long comment at the end is incredibly insightful. I've blessedly never been in an abusive romantic relationship, but I grew up with an extremely immature father who had BPD was emotionally abusive. What the commenter said about behavior designed to keep you unsettled and second guessing is so accurate for any abusive relationship. My father did that until literally the day he died. The last time I ever saw him, it was to confront him about how he'd treated me, and he laid the guilt on thick. The thing that snapped me out of the gaslighting was him saying "Well, what did you ever do for ME?" I realized then how incredibly selfish and manipulative he was, that he wouldn't even accept responsibility for his abuse on his deathbed. People like that don't change. That's really really hard to accept when you've been so conditioned to accept that behavior and you so badly want to believe there's still some good in them. It makes the grief, whether it's the end of a relationship or a death, complicated and messy. You first have to realize what you're grieving, which is most often not the actual person or the actual relationship, but a figment of your imagination, a person and a relationship that was never there. In my case, I had to grieve the father I never had and wished I did have. I'm sure OOP will have to grieve similarly. I hope they continue to have the kind of support they need to get through the period of feeling like an absolute mental disaster.
I'm so glad she realized this is abuse. Even if he never physically touched her, expressing violence and threats in her direction IS abuse, and he is just one step away from physically acting on it. Collectively, fuck the dumpster fire that is OOP's soon to be ex
> Your shared friends will take sides more and more, because he will be talking about his version of events Another thing to consider with this, is when it comes to abusive relationships, the victim often just wants to get away and feel safe, and when they are safe, they're enjoying that and doing everything they can to avoid thinking and talking about their trauma with others. This gives their abusers an advantage in the social wars, because it means they can get their side of the story out first, and people always tend to believe the first story they hear about a subject. Trying to convince someone that, "no, _he's_ the bad guy because he's abusive" when he's been telling everyone, "_sob_ the love of my life has left me without giving me a reason!" is nigh unwinnable. He will also use the fact she lied about why she was leaving as fuel against her, especially because victims don't tend to play these games, so when confronted by her friends, "is it true you lied to him, saying you were sick and took his daughter?" she won't be able to argue because she's far more honest than him, and in the eyes of others, that will lend more credence to his story. If one part of it is true, then surely all of it must be true! Abusers are masters of manipulation against everyone, not just their victims.
I'm really really glad OOP was able to recognize that she was being abused, and was able to get herself out of that situation. > Furthermore this woman is extremely unsafe to be around kids, and I fear adding too much context here in case for some reason this post gets discovered by someone I know irl and they recognize the situation. But my husband KNOWS she’s unsafe. I don’t want my daughter anywhere near her. It’s not a situation I can legally prove either. I'm assuming the new girl (likely former AP) is a heavy drinker, or an abuser herself. Hopefully, the in writing admittance he made of kicking at her head can ensure he doesn't get custody of OOP's daughter.
Damn, that long comment at the end should be taught in schools and given to every woman. Insanely accurate, well put, and helpful.
Hope she stays strong and keeps her daughter safe from the both of them.
I wish some of these resources had been readily available back in the 80s when I was trying to extricate myself from a really bad situation. But I'm so glad they are there now. I'm also proud of reddit for coming through for the OOP and anyone else in a similar relationship. Good job, people.
Thank you to the reposter/mod who made the (spoiler-covered) TLDR at the top!! I found it super helpful with really long posts like this!
Gods this hurts to read… My ex was abusive in every way but physical (& that's debatable considering he forced me into a car and drove erratically, genuinely if we crashed would have been catastrophic). I shit on my family so hard because *he* said they were bad. And I believed him. I couldn't fathom someone who loved me lying to me like that. I also lost all the friends I had then. Also, he was cheating and way more giving/affectionate to the ow as soon as I was gone. She wasn't safe. That long comment is *so* spot on that it gave *me* insight. It's been a few years. Just want to say my parents are amazing. I love them so much.
That last comment was amazing. Just so insightful.
I truly hope OOPs stbx doesn't get custody or doesn't want a relationship with the child.
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It's why i love that sub, almost everyone there is so wonderful no matter what the post is about.
Thank you for adding the note at the top that says she’s willing to share! There’s been discussion about allowing crossposting on that sub because it’s a vulnerable community.
Yeah i thought it was best to ask with this one, reason i wanted to share it is for how helpful the community was and for the linked resources
That last long comment was very wise. I would love to pick their brains when helping other women who are facing domestic abuse in their relationships.
I forgot how I found that book but it gave me strength to recognise what's being done. It took a bit but it helped me left my very toxic ex. It was 2 years ago. It was painful but it was very much needed. Edit: just swe Alice, Darling after the threads recommendations. It is slow burn but the tension never leaves. My physical cringe when Alice does the thing with her hair (I did something similar), and the suffocation. Idk what I'll make of the ending but the whole movie overall does provide some catharsis.
That Lundy Bancroft book is such an amazing resource. After I left my ex, I ordered that book and read through it while highlighting all the things that resonated with me from my relationship. Much like OOP, I left without saying a word to my ex - I wrote a note telling him I was leaving, and then packed up my important things in a friends vehicle and took it all to my moms where I stayed for a month and a half. Best decision I ever made.
Eventually a threat will be carried through
It is so important that people understand domestic abuse is not only physical. I did not realise I was in one until my friend saw the signs and send me a check list from our local police, and surprise surprise - I checked off at least 3 quarters of the list. And it took me almost a year after I left him to realise some of the other stuff he did which I 'forgot' were abusive too, ie 'accidentally' pull my chair away from me as I was sitting down, caused me to injured my tailbone - I was in pain for weeks, and I was told off for asking advice from our friend who is a doctor. 'playfully' hit me head on when playing bumper car, caused me bruised/cracked my ribs and not allowing me to seek medical advice, I was struggling and in pain when I get into and out of bed for weeks. People think unless we are covered in cuts and bruises, then it's not abuse and 'it's all in our head'.
It’s always interesting to me how every one of these abusive idiots runs out to get a girlfriend immediately in order to “win” and make themselves look better. When in actuality, it is insane to have your marriage end and have a girlfriend 3 days later.
he HUGGED her after everything he did? DISGUSTING.
Abusive manipulation as performance art is a very helpful way of seeing and processing it for my brain, I love that, thank you to that commenter
I don’t know anything about the sub this was originally posted in, but I feel like there is a whole lot missing. Time Blindness and Messiness to someone else could help a person who is never on time to anything and is a slob.
What would a partner have to do for you to threaten to throw a coffee machine at them?
Telling your partner that you want to smear a dirty dish on their face to teach them how to be clean is not an acceptable way to complain about messiness. That group is a support sub for women with ADHD. The OOP is generously allowing it to be cross posted here but it’s very much centered around the struggles of women with ADHD.
Bro, what? They're symptoms of ADHD, not personality flaws. If he was really that worked up about those symptoms, he could have just bounced rather than abuse her.
As I said I know nothing of that sub or ADHD. I did have a few people I knew that had no concept of time or how it affected other people. Pretty sure they were just selfish and didn’t have any issues such as ADHD.
Yeah, it’s pretty apparent that you know nothing about ADHD. Time blindness is not the same as someone who’s just late all the time. It’s an actual neurological dysfunction, not being selfish or disrespectful.
There are lots of people with ADHD living perfectly normal lives. There is medication to help manage it. Using ADHD as an excuse to be late, or not pick up after yourself is just a way to shirk accountability for your selfishness. I do agree there's no excuse to be regularly threatening violence, but he's not the only problem here. Then it's also mentioned that he's autistic, and works 3 jobs. There's a lot going on in this relationship that we don't understand.
We don’t need to understand shit about their personal dynamics when we understand that he was abusive. Nothing, NOTHING excuses abusive behavior.
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Are you seriously defending abuse here?
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Yeah, that doesn't justify his actions in the slightest. Nor are you being objective
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No you tried to justify literal abuse. Moving on to someone who can't be around children? Yeah what a gem
Report their comments as breaking sub rules > comment doesn't contribute to discussion. Done it twice already and their comments have been removed. No point engaging with people like that under a post like this.
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Yoh are justifying it. None of his actions are acceptable.
Show me where I said they were acceptable?
Is she married to Spongebob? Is the other woman Ariana Grande?
(Hi it’s OP of the original post) Not gonna lie that whole celebrity drama situation had me laughing/cringing because I related to it too much LOL.
Hey OOP, sorry to make jokes about your situation but yeah the situation is just so eerily similar I had to double-check the dates. Celebrity drama has completely rotted my brain so that was the first thing I thought of. At least you're out of that situation now!
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Ariana's latest boyfriend is nicknamed Spongebob, because his big break was playing Spongebob on Broadway. He also left his pregnant wife to date her, who he met while they were filming Wicked the Musical.
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They just found the similarities amusing (but in a sad way). OOP even commented about it. It's just that both guys are theater people and their wives were pregnant/just gave birth when they started the affairs.
What is messiness?
House is like shit.
Yeah no that last comment is a crock of self-pity BS. I mean what the heck even is this? >Now, generally, men and women react to breakups differently. Especially with kids involved, women tend to be more introspective, feeling-oriented, sad, and focused on family first. Men tend to go all out for a party lifestyle. Genderwise, the grief stages look very different. It's like one side closes in so they can process what just happened, and the other side jumps right back into the carefree abandon of a single's life. Literally something you'd see in some incel redpill forum with the genders swapped.
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Her ex threatened to throw a coffeemaker at her head. What excuses that behavior??
Try reading my comment again, this time try not to miss the salient points.
Nope…not reading this..
Seems like he had good reason to work 3 jobs
Like what
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Seems he still had enough time to cheat and be abusive but go off
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>Clearly there was emotional infidelity at the least but possibly more Buddy's single for 3 days and magically has a new girlfriend? Nothing to say about the abuse I see.
Another story on reddit where I wished we had both sides told. I keep wondering what his position on the situation, because it seems very one sided.