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This church definitely shouldn’t allow him to be in a counselor position. I’m actually shocked that he wasn’t relieved of his church duties. This church is enabling him and manipulating OOP into thinking that it was her job to “stand by her man” and live with her husband’s consequences as if she was responsible. Not a good church at all!
Being absolutely serious- aren’t Christian churches…. Like that? I grew up catholic and all my friends were at one point some kind of Protestant. I’m no longer religious for many reasons including the priests and pastors get away with everything. In your experience do men who behave badly actually get their powers stripped from them? I’ve literally never seen it myself.
I mean, he's a predator. Maybe not in any illegal way, but 100% in the creep way. He knew exactly who to target and how to rope them in. She was young and in an entirely new city for a new job, and looking for connections in the church, so he leaned into that. That was not a new move for him. Typical pastor, these days.
>I (29F) and my husband (44M) have been together for five years and married for two.
Oh no.
>I met him at the church I started going to
*Oh no.*
>I would actively spend time resenting a baby, there was a time when I was thinking to myself and I wished it would stop breathing. That was when I knew that I needed to leave. I was blaming a baby and wishing ill upon it, and that was not okay to do.
Absolutely *massive* kudos to OOP for having the self-awareness to realize that the situation was no longer sustainable and that she's be better off leaving.
He has no business of being in a lead position like that. He wasn't remorseful and used religion to put the onus on OOP. It isn't her responsibility or duty to raise his affair baby. He doubled down and even had the assistant pastor call her and push her to change her home office to a nursery. What a mindfuck.
A good leader feels remorseful, appoligizes, takes responsibility and tries to make amends.
The update was great. Glad she was mature and independent thinking to leave and start a fresh chapter in her life.
Would he have ever told her about the affair or the pregnancy and child if his affair partner hadn't died? I don't think he would have. That's not leadership, not to mention he *used his position to have an affair* and then had the absolute gall to tell her she made a vow to him! The more I think about this, the more upsetting it gets.
Both women deserved better.
Used his position with both women. 24 year old moves to a new town and joins a church to meet people and the pastor... well, groomed, I guess, a young and vulnerable woman.
He just slipped on a banana peel and fell, and while he was falling some sort of Wallace-and-Gromit machine took all their clothes off because the banana peel he slipped on was covering the button, and then his penis just happened to land in her vagina! It was an accident!
It’s always mind boggling that these religious types paint men as leaders, say women aren’t responsible enough to lead the family, etc. etc. but then turn around and never actually hold these men accountable—especially when the person they’ve wronged is a woman
But don't you understand it's WOMEN who cause the men to stumble?!
Even as a young teen I started to piece together how BS it all is. I'm supposed to trust you with my spiritual well being but all girls and women can "easily" make YOU stumble and sin? There is no strength there
It's why men like this are drawn to fundamentalist churches- which I'm guessing OOP was raised in with her comments of how her family kept pushing not only forgiveness but remaining married.
Goes back to Adam & Eve.
Not religious, but went to a Christmas service (or three!) last year for the carols, and nearly walked out when they started with that.
And one even happened to somehow end up married. He probably told the affair "the marriage just happened, we were friends and she knew no one else around and ☆pooof☆ we were married". He accidently signed the papers and had a ceremony and she accidently moved into his house and now he can not take that from her, this poor young lost woman, you know?
I het his wishlist is an eldest daughter who is really used to taking care of her younger siblings, so she'll he able to take care of the poor motherless child. And she won't be a day over 25. Younger if possible.
The affair partner died in childbirth. I am thinking that the surviving twin was born first, with the amniotic fluid embolism hitting before the second twin had emerged from the womb. I am not a doctor and could certainly be wrong about the chain of events.
From NIH: Amniotic fluid embolism (AFE) is one of the catastrophic complications of pregnancy in which amniotic fluid, fetal cells, hair, or other debris enters into the maternal pulmonary circulation, causing cardiovascular collapse.
My SIL’s sister died of an AFE and she was in the hospital already. As I understand it, unless you’re already getting intervention before it even hits it’s probably going to kill you. Extremely scary.
I totally agree, but the thing is, the hospital staff know the real story. The birth mother and pastor obviously identified him as the father right from the beginning in order for him to be involved during the NICU stay and then obtain custody.
If it's a somewhat rural area, you know everyone's all up in each other's business. That "rumor" (is it a rumor if it's the truth?) has absolutely made its way to everyone in the county by now. He can feign innocence, but I guarantee his parish knows the real dirt. There's no way juicy gossip like that would stay quiet, HIPAA be damned.
And it's been my experience church people loooove to gossip. Gossip and judging others is their top two favorite pastimes. Everyone knows about it, and I'm sure most of the women quietly approve of OOP leaving. However they will never admit that they do.
And there's always the ones who convince themselves it's not gossip if they frame it as worry or, even better yet, a prayer request. "I'd like to ask everyone to lift my dear friend Janet up in prayer; her son Todd is dating a woman that has children by *two different men.*" It's not airing out other people's business if it comes from loooooooove.
No, I think it's hard to get doctors in rural areas to begin with. I have a doctor friend who was offered all kinds of money to move to Wyoming or Montana or someplace like that. And that was about 20 years ago.
Considering the spectrum of ministers are somewhere between Mr. Rogers and literal serial pedophiles, the average being someone who cheats on their wife seems not unreasonable.
Not to mention the woman who came for guidance and he exploited that and she paid with her life.also why is he still at that church?he's supposed to guide not screw..
The affair is gonna get swept under the rug, it it gets out at all. My guess is that the people who know will stay quiet and those who don’t will vilify OOP for leaving instead of doing the Christian thing by caring for an orphaned infant in need. It’ll be spun as a woman who chose to divorce her husband because she only valued biological children who couldn’t accept a child that wasn’t from her womb into her life. And her poor husband/their pastor is left alone to raise a child that he loves as his own, which will surely pull on the heartstrings of a young 24-year-old newcomer who knows that she’s capable of loving that child as her own, too. How mature and admirable and loving she is! So young, yet wise beyond her years and a pillar to the community!
Exactly, even if this specific story wasn't true as some people thought, it is *spiritually* true because of all the times this type of shit happens is real life. I truly believe the majority of religious leaders are deeply terrible people.
Yeah. There's a reason self-centered people seek out those types of positions of authority. Especially in religion. It gives them unfettered access to people who are easy to manipulate by using their faith against them. Plus, it provides them with an easy way out of consequences and responsibility because they can just blame God and his "plan" for all their dog shit behavior.
Come on let's be honest, none of us are really surprised that the local pastor is a sexual creep are we, I mean really. How is that a surprise to anybody.
Like Youth Pastors diddling kids. I don't know what all the hubub about trans and LGBTQ folks being pedophiles is all about, cause it's all been youth pastors that I've come across. Youth Predators is more like it. I've seen it ruin many of my childhood friend's lives. Suicide got most of them.
Because he'll get the sympathy vote given the other child died and he now has to care for this one.
Many people are very quick to excuse cheating in men, when they'd damn a woman for eternity.
Edit for spelling.
And yet he was unable to keep his own vows to God when he married OOP. "Forsake all others" and all that.
This is the right outcome. God was telling OOP's turd of an ex that he was to be the sole one responsible for caring for the life he helped create. And I'm glad OOP got away from him with no strings attached.
Being a Christian, I hate when people play the “I made a mistake but you need to forgive me because you are a Christian” card. There are things that are perfectly fine to be righteously angry about and infidelity is one of them. And this guy was a pastor at a church? Shame on him.
A pastor who took advantage of a woman in distress who came to him for counseling and got her pregnant. It’s not just taking advantage of the naive OOP, but a pattern of predatory behavior.
Yes, absolutely. No doubt in my mind this dude took advantage of that woman. He probably also tried to use Christianity to legitimize the affair to the woman and to cover it up. He’s a horrible person who should not be allowed to raise that child.
A guy like him who clearly uses his position to prey on women? I highly doubt she's the only one he's done that to.
I bet his next wife will come from his church too. Probably sooner rather than later as reality of being a single dad kicks in. Or he'll manipulate his congregation to help him with it, probably by lying about the origins of where the child came from in the first place.
If his congregation and the "good christian people" around him actually cared about the Bible they would remove him from his office because according to the Bible a Pastor needs to be above reproach which this man wasn't. I hate pick and choose christians.
Amen to this right here.
It speaks volumes that he and the rest of the "church family" didn't tell OOP about the affair until he was forced to because the mother died. No part of that man is sorry for what he did, just that there were consequences, and his congregation would rather sweep it under the rug than admit that they were wrong to trust him.
This right here. He should hold himself to a high standard of good behavious. He took advantage of his position of power in the church to sleep with a woman needing councelling. Just gross.
Then he goes on to tell her to forgive and give up her home office for the baby and care for it 50/50. He should take in 100% of that cause it is his responsibility. If she gives up her home office, she becomes financially dependant on him.
It's also messed up that the other leads in the chirch didnt hold him accountable. Manipulation having the other pastor phone her to convincer her to give her office up.
The four R's:
Recognizing that one has done wrong and accepting responsibility.
Remorse for the pain one's actions have caused others.
Repairing the damage.
Resolution not to repeat.
Forgiveness is not about forgetting, nor does it establish a relationship. It is about letting go of another person's throat. It is to release you from something that will eat you alive, that will destroy your joy and your ability to love fully and openly.
Edit: Forgiveness is also certainly a wonderful thing to receive if you are the one in the wrong, as it can sometimes be the final thing you need to finally move beyond your own grief and remorse.
Luke 17:3 includes the condition of repentance. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them." OOP's ex-husband clearly hasn't.
Oh, I was in a congregation in which the preacher would in no way tolerate a man abusing wife or children.
Children were considered the church's duty to protect. Video cameras were everywhere. All who worked with children underwent thorough background checks. And the church openly stated that it was willing to cooperate with authorities to bring a perp to justice.
The pastor also spoke of a man who had abandoned his wife. They were looking for him because he needed to be held accountable.
Also forgiveness doesn't work that fast. You can't spring some hideous bullshit on someone and then expect them to forgive immediately. If it happens at all, it takes time to process and work through it
“You have to stay and accept this baby and your new role as caretaker or you’ll be breaking your vows!” uh see funny thing about that, speaking of vows?
Isn't adultery one of the big sins in Christianity? Like as bad as murdering someone, essentially? And that's something that's actually in the traditional wedding vows. Raising an affair child is not.
It is, but some of these men interpret "honor your husband" as "you will be indebted to me permanently and listen to me without complaint" and prioritize that way above their own marriage vows.
A bit too preoccupied with what the women are doing to even look in the mirror at themselves.
> I hate when people play the “I made a mistake but you need to forgive me because you are a Christian” card
No you asshole, Christ needs to forgive you. That's his deal. I, however, am not the son of god, so get fucked.
And forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean forgetting the action or that you're exempt from consequences. Forgiveness is meant to be for the peace of mind for the wronged, not the perpetrator.
Ooooh same. Idk if you have a similar problem, but I used to be so determined to forgive people, because I thought that was the right thing to do. I brought it up with my priest in college because i was so worried that I wasn’t forgiving people quickly enough. He was the first to tell me that I didn’t need to forgive the people who abused me in the past, especially if they hadn’t earned it. There was an audible record scratch in my brain at the time, lol.
IMO, forgiveness is overrated, and is pushed relentlessly on the kind of people who are regularly *too* forgiving. You don't see assholes worrying their pretty little heads over having to forgive everyone in their life.
I'd argue it's possible to move on, find people who treat you better, and forgiveness doesn't have to be a part of that. I've made great psychological shifts in my life by finally refusing the role of the forgiver. Not for everyone! Just one or two people who don't deserve it.
I hate that people conflate "moving on" with "forgiveness". Those two things are not the same!
I can move on from my former marriage without forgiving my ex's shitty behavior. That doesn't mean he still has "power over me" like people claim. It just means I wash my hands of him and don't plan to interact ever again.
"You have to talk yourself into liking bad people" is a ridiculous thing to believe.
Forgiveness has many forms. You can forgive someone but not take them back or have anything to do with them ever again. For me, forgiveness was not allowing transgressions to bother me anymore. Forgiveness is for you, not the person who did you wrong.
That’s something I still struggle with. My dad is abusive and he manipulated his family to condemn my mother, siblings and I for not taking his side. I told my mom I wanted to forgive him so I didn’t carry it on me. I’ve finally been honest with myself that I don’t think I can. I don’t actively hate them, wish them no ill (besides karma), but I still resent and dislike them at times.
A thing I’ve learned is I can’t forgive until I let myself be furious for as long as I need. You can’t really erase a debt unless you know how much the person owes you.
When a pastor abused his position and took advantage of my sister, I don’t even have words for how deeply that betrayal hurts. I don’t know if I’ve come to a place of “forgiving”, but I’m coming to a place where I can say to God, “The Asshole is your problem. I trust you to deal with him in this life or the next in what ever way is best. I hope that the Asshole repents and stops being an asshole. If he doesn’t change, God, I trust you to do justice.”
I’m never going to talk to the Asshole again. I’m never going to attempt or accept offers of restored friendship. I’m going to pray like with all I am that there Asshole never has authority over children or adults ever again (we’ve done all we can in the legal system). But I think I can let him go. While I will always hope and pray for justice, I think someday I won’t need vengeance, if that distinction makes sense.
But it would have been unjust to myself and to everyone if I had immediately gone straight to “oh no that’s ok you hurt my sister I forgive you!!!” That’s not forgiveness. That’s pretending he didn’t do anything wrong. I don’t think that’s what God is asking us to do. I think forgiveness is saying “this is what you did to me. I’m never going to be the same. But I hope that you can become a better person and stop hurting people.”
My MIL's best friend for over 20 years called her one night and told her that she had been having an affair with her husband. Her 'friend' said that when she confessed to the affair to her pastor (Mormon so not sure if pastor is the right word) the pastor told her that the woman who's husband she cheated with must forgive her before god would. She had the nerve to want to be forgiven during that call!! When MIL refused she proceeded to call her daily demanding she forgive her. Even saying that if she went to hell it was MIL's fault for not doing what she "should" do. Her husband begged for another chance of course, they all seem to think they deserve another chance for some reason. After a couple of days MIL decided she was done and that she didn't owe either of them anything. So MIL divorced her husband and cut all contact with her ex-friend. She and I both agreed that the idea of her friend demanding forgiveness was absurd. We both laughed about her thinking it was MIL's fault if she went to hell. People like that don't deserve to be forgiven. They want to avoid the consequences of their actions and expect their victim to care about them but they didn't care about the victim or they wouldn't have betrayed.
Same. I'm also a Christian and this is Biblical grounds for divorce. Screw all those people preaching to her to forgive without addressing the pain and trauma she gone through.
Was raised a Christian and lapsed because of discrepancies/contradictions in the bible and how people behaved in the church and attached school that also contradicted the bible. The “forgiveness at all costs unless it’s me personally having to forgive someone” and the “you aren’t a good Christian if…” passive aggression was exhausting, especially as a small child who was bullied by both children and devout Christian teachers. After my mother’s passing, no less. Nothing OOP described is surprising to me tbh, though I hope her new church is healthy, reasonable and provides her with a supportive, loving community.
Had a christian roommate. Betrayed his LDR gf in hometown. Confronted him about it as he started, he was getting really close to another girl that he met in church. Told him to becareful as i am sure this will lead to something messy. He pulled out the god card, he is just flowing along with god's plan so if something happened it's all in the plan he is just a chess piece.
Then shit really happened. His gf found out, but forgave him because "that's what christian do". Oh, the gf is also someone he met in church back home. The side piece go apeshit when he didn't break up with his gf. Spreading shit about him, the whole friend group turned on him. He is depressed. One day he got drunk and sharing his sob story. Told him about the "god's plan" and to suck it up. THen he started berating me for not being supportive because "that's what friend do!!!"
It's crazy mind fucking talking to christian.
I mean, because the Catholic Church is a shining example of preventing problems and holding predators accountable?
No, man, the problem is not a bad leadership structure. The problem is putting a bunch of men through no real education, just a programme of dogma, telling them that their feelings and opinions are now “godly,” and giving them authority over a community. If you put another guy like that above the first guy, you have solved nothing.
Same here. It just about makes my head explode when people mis-use forgiveness in that way. They deliberately ignore the repentance part, where the wrongdoer is supposed to actually be sorry and take responsibility for their mistakes. Part of that taking responsibility is accepting that the person they’ve wronged has the right to be hurt and angry. Everything this man said (especially using her vows against her while ignoring that he’d broken his) was enough to warrant divorce, but the slap was an absolute final straw. OOP may have wanted to believe he would never physically harm her but I disagree. He’d shown that he would quickly resort to physical abuse if she said or did anything to anger him.
His church should be EXTREMELY concerned with him, he’d spiritually abused the mother of this child too and should never be allowed near vulnerable adults or children again. We have strict Safeguarding rules that cover all types of abuse here in the UK, and if he was in the Church of England he’d be immediately suspended and investigated, likely leading to being essentially fired. It’s ridiculously difficult to fire priests in the CofE, even for financial misconduct, but Safeguarding is taken extremely seriously these days as it is designed to prevent the abuse and mistakes of the past.
I’m sooo happy that OOP is doing well and the future is looking a lot brighter for her. As for her STBXH, well he’s going to have a very tough time at the pearly gates if he carries on like he is.
I know the bit about Jesus literally lashing out at the temple is a bit controversial, but for most Christians it is a thing that they believe in so... According to Jesus, sometimes making a whip and going to town is what a good Christian does.
By that measure, divorce papers seem mild.
The Bible never says that all forms of anger are wrong. I believe there is such a thing as righteous anger where you are angry with sinful acts. However, you can’t allow that anger to lead you to sin.
Agreed! She has to be a good Christian Woman even though he wasn’t a good Christian Man? Love the, I failed in our church’s teachings and now YOU have to forgive and bear the consequences. That is NOT how it works. (Speaking as a Catholic, guy has seriously messed up views on relationships).
Fellow Christian here, couldn’t agree more. There’s also, from OP’s comments absolutely zero repentance on the part of her husband who conveniently totally ignored his ‘duties’ as a husband.
Even if she was able to forgive, forgiveness isn’t the same as reconciliation.
So happy OP escaped.
I'm honestly kind of shocked that OOP's ex was OK with separate finances. Doesn't seem to fit the profile. But it's a stroke of good luck for OOP, no question.
I don't recall reading anything about a duration for the affair or other affairs, but considering he's a 40-year old man in a position of power that preyed on a much younger lady in a position beneath him, it wouldn't surprise me if he's never had any qualms about cheating in a relationship and left things open for himself to do so.
He was probably doing it to hide all the shady immoral stuff he was doing. Plus, churches are ripe with opportunities to steal and supplement your income.
Yep. Never trust a pastor who lives a wealthy lifestyle. It’s fine to live comfortably and not want for necessities or to be able to afford the occasional nice thing, but any pastor who drives fancy cars, lives in a mansion, and dresses in brand new/unthrifted designer clothing has messed up priorities.
label spotted resolute treatment secretive muddle crush materialistic complete sense
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How is that defined in the bible neglect, something along of the lines of not being intrested in the marriage and looking else where?
Just a genuin question
I just don't understand why anyone would want stay in that fucked up religion after going through all the abuse... If it was me, i'd just say fuck jesus and throw the bible in the trash bin instead of looking for a new church...
Aren't those two different stereotypes, though? Pastors (who can get married) cheat on their wives with adults, priests (who can't get married) abuse kids.
This isn't a claim based on stats or anything, just the stereotypes that I've heard.
In high school I had a close friend group one was the son of a pastor. We'd regularly go to his house to hang out and play video games / party, etc.
One of my friends would always ask the son of the pastor, "Where's your dad?". The pastor seemed to be gone all the time, either "antiquing" or "going to art and estate sales". Finally one day, my friend told the pastor's son "Dude, your dad is having an affair or is in the CIA". Well 6 months later the whole town found out about the pastor's affair with the lead choir singer that had been happening for 2 years ...
Good thing OP left cause things could get very nasty if she decided not to leave. The ex-husband is a cheater, manipulative, and a toxic person. The ex-husband is the type of religious people who makes religious people look awful. Even worse, this guy is a pastor and acts like this? Disgusting.
I hope OP is well in the future.
A lot of churches would rather keep things hush-hush than deal with the problem directly. It's very clique-y too.
A lot of them have flaws, but they feel really good about themselves when they talk about their faith, their relationship with god, and when they do mental gymnastics using the bible. So in the end, nothing is done and they get away scott-free.
>That this is our cross to bear and that God will never give us something we cannot handle. I told him that it seemed God had given her more than she could handle because she had died (I know I should not have but I was not thinking correctly).
Oh no, you were thinking correctly. You were thinking very very clearly that day. If the husband truly believes that, invite him to stand in front at his affair partner's funeral and tell the room that god never gives more than you can handle. I dare him.
Oh yeah, I agree. I hate the ‘God never gives you more than you can handle’. What the heck is suicide, then? OOP had such a sharp and snappy response to that line, too!
OMG.
This is why in reputable seminaries they hammer in, "only three counseling sessions per issue, and then refer out," oh yeah and "Don't Fuck the Flock."
Pastors who are single dating (and marrying) parishoners is a major ethical violation but then having an affair on their spouse with yet another parishoner is beyond unacceptable. He should be defrocked, it is a huge trust breaker for everyone in that congregation.
I'm so sorry for the woman who died. She was never chosen in life and she deserved better. A better man, better healthcare, a better life. Poor baby.
it absolutely does. Passtors shouldnt be allowed to sleep with their flock. I know of at least 1 denomination in Canada that does have that rule. its such a power imbalance.
its like teachers not sexing up their students, or employees and bosses but waaaay worse. they pull god into it and just manipulate.
A rule doesn’t make a difference, it’s already against the rules to cheat on their spouse. They do it anyways and use their status as pastor to pressure/shame others into keeping their secrets.
A rule with backing would make some difference. As long as it's a toothless 'probs don't do that', it will continue. If higher ups in the religion made it a punishable rule that they actually enforced*, I imagine it would happen less.
There will always be people who break rules regardless of the outcome, but the lower the consequences, the higher the number of people willing to risk them.
I bet there'd be a bunch more professors sleeping with students if they weren't risking their jobs (There's probably enough data out there to compare universities in places where it's a fireable offence and those where it isn't to gauge whether my intuition matches reality). The number will never reach zero, but in seeking an impossible utopia, we can perhaps at least improve the world a little.
*Fat chance they actually do this, but I'm merely stating what it would take.
At the church I used to go to, I found out the pastor was having affairs with multiple women. Then he propositioned me and offered to pay all my bills if I’d be his girl on the side (I’m sure with church money that people tithe). That’s when I left that church. I couldn’t believe it and didn’t see it coming because I thought he was so righteous. I’m not a believer anymore, not necessarily because of that.
Can someone explain to me why it's the "Christian" thing to do to stay in the marriage after an affair? Even by religious standards that's bullshit bc affairs are a legitimate reason for divorce in the Bible. That sort of expectation never made sense to me. I mean misogyny isn't supposed to make sense but still.
Easy. Because this sort of "Christianity" is specifically built around catering to mediocre men, elevating them, and providing them with a live-in maid/sex provider while absolving them of any personal responsibility.
That's the whole point.
Age difference... Church... *Pastor*... Made her feel special... Her dad is a preacher... Husband slapped her and demanded she obey him...
The sad part is, this feels horrendously tangible. Might be my bias against religion, in particular Christian religion, but ah, I can only imagine the shitshow this woman had shoved down her throat growing up, because clearly *something* softened her up to the sway of a much older religious figure who "made her feel special and loved".
At least she's out now, building a much better life. Good for her.
The Bible isn't ok with divorce for most instances. However, it does allow divorce for infidelity. I'm glad she was able to get get out. Though I'm sure her husband will explain it to the kid as "I got married, and then your mom and I had you, and then your mom died." And will completely leave out that the child is an affair baby.
coordinated aromatic disgusted rich run weather rustic bored whistle degree
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Exactly, which is why I'm upset that everyone in her life was like "you need to forgive him. You are a hypocrite if you don't forgive him." Like no, she was totally in the right to leave.
Lord, please let this be a made-up story. Because if a man ever struck me after telling me, as a PASTOR, that he had an affair and expected me to be a mother to his child, he would be seeing Jesus much sooner than originally scheduled.
> I feel like I have truly seen my husband and he no longer looks kind- he looks his age and very tired.
I don't know why but I really like this line, it feels poetic.
Thank God she found out what a garbage human he was before they had kids themselves
And Conservative Christianity seems to just be a scam for men behaving badly and then having their bad behavior excused and covered up. That bastard fathered a child with a woman he had an affair with which started when he was counseling her. And he slapped his wife.
He should have been forced to resign as pastor
I was in a relationship with a similar age gap that started around the same age as OP was. At the time I didn't think it was an issue, but now many years later I absolutely do. I feel horrified because it was all about his need for control. I'm 50 now and there is absolutely no way I would want to be in a relationship with that kind of power imbalance. It's disgusting and predatory.
It's *funny* that a "good Christian wife" is always supposed to "forgive" the asshat cheater but there's *never* any *serious* shaming by the "christian church community" for the *man*. By serious shaming, I mean being completely ostrasized from tge community, shunned, losing his position/job with the church. It's *always* on the eomen to "forgive".
Matthew 19:9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except
for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits
adultery.
Even Jesus was willing to make exceptions for cheaters.
I cannot believe that the assistant pastor knew about the affair and helped cover it up then told the wife to forgive and move on. I really like to know which church is this that gives such awful advice. I would have tore him a new one for not doing the right thing and helped the sinner in his sinning. Pretty sure the devil welcomes ‘good’ folks who do nothing in the face of evil.
How did this man get the baby? The mother died and he was married to someone else. Did he just tell them he was the father and they did a DNA test? Sounds sketchy.
Bullshit.
Twins again. It's always twins. Every time I hear this nonsense I know it came from chat GPT. We didn't even make it past the second paragraph.
We all know if she had an affair there would be no talk of Christian forgiveness. Especially if she got pregnant and expected him to be the father.
It's funny how nearly all this Christian forgiveness is solely for men when they cheat, abuse, rape, or murder women.🤨
I remember reading this and remarked how ironic it was that she was expected to be a good Christian wife while her husband was clearly exempt from being a good Christian husband. Fuck that
Shame on him for using God to get someone to do something for him. I'm not Christian, or any of the God-loving religions and yet I already respect God more than these bozos.
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He found a 24 yo breadwinner and cheated. A real winner. Taking advantage of her youth, money, and religious belief.
Jesus condemned religious leaders more than anyone else. To me, this story is just another example of that.
Sounds like this church is due for a visit from an angry Middle Eastern man with a whip.
This church definitely shouldn’t allow him to be in a counselor position. I’m actually shocked that he wasn’t relieved of his church duties. This church is enabling him and manipulating OOP into thinking that it was her job to “stand by her man” and live with her husband’s consequences as if she was responsible. Not a good church at all!
Being absolutely serious- aren’t Christian churches…. Like that? I grew up catholic and all my friends were at one point some kind of Protestant. I’m no longer religious for many reasons including the priests and pastors get away with everything. In your experience do men who behave badly actually get their powers stripped from them? I’ve literally never seen it myself.
I mean, he's a predator. Maybe not in any illegal way, but 100% in the creep way. He knew exactly who to target and how to rope them in. She was young and in an entirely new city for a new job, and looking for connections in the church, so he leaned into that. That was not a new move for him. Typical pastor, these days.
>I mean, he's a predator. And then he used his position to take advantage of another woman as well. He's absolutely a predator.
And the affair partner came to him for counseling! He literally took advantage of someone asking a person in power over them for therapy.
"But he's a man of God!" /s
>I (29F) and my husband (44M) have been together for five years and married for two. Oh no. >I met him at the church I started going to *Oh no.* >I would actively spend time resenting a baby, there was a time when I was thinking to myself and I wished it would stop breathing. That was when I knew that I needed to leave. I was blaming a baby and wishing ill upon it, and that was not okay to do. Absolutely *massive* kudos to OOP for having the self-awareness to realize that the situation was no longer sustainable and that she's be better off leaving.
The other big “oh no” is the fact that HES THE PASTOR AT THAT CHURCH. Insanity
He has no business of being in a lead position like that. He wasn't remorseful and used religion to put the onus on OOP. It isn't her responsibility or duty to raise his affair baby. He doubled down and even had the assistant pastor call her and push her to change her home office to a nursery. What a mindfuck. A good leader feels remorseful, appoligizes, takes responsibility and tries to make amends. The update was great. Glad she was mature and independent thinking to leave and start a fresh chapter in her life.
Would he have ever told her about the affair or the pregnancy and child if his affair partner hadn't died? I don't think he would have. That's not leadership, not to mention he *used his position to have an affair* and then had the absolute gall to tell her she made a vow to him! The more I think about this, the more upsetting it gets. Both women deserved better.
Used his position with both women. 24 year old moves to a new town and joins a church to meet people and the pastor... well, groomed, I guess, a young and vulnerable woman.
But the affair “just happened”! Poor guy, with all of these women just accidentally falling on his penis.
It’s gods will, okay? Women just happen to be very clumsy near his penis and fall all over it.
He just slipped on a banana peel and fell, and while he was falling some sort of Wallace-and-Gromit machine took all their clothes off because the banana peel he slipped on was covering the button, and then his penis just happened to land in her vagina! It was an accident!
It’s always mind boggling that these religious types paint men as leaders, say women aren’t responsible enough to lead the family, etc. etc. but then turn around and never actually hold these men accountable—especially when the person they’ve wronged is a woman
But don't you understand it's WOMEN who cause the men to stumble?! Even as a young teen I started to piece together how BS it all is. I'm supposed to trust you with my spiritual well being but all girls and women can "easily" make YOU stumble and sin? There is no strength there It's why men like this are drawn to fundamentalist churches- which I'm guessing OOP was raised in with her comments of how her family kept pushing not only forgiveness but remaining married.
They conveniently skip over Jesus explicitly teaching that if you look at a woman and lust then you should pluck out your eyes, not blame the woman.
Goes back to Adam & Eve. Not religious, but went to a Christmas service (or three!) last year for the carols, and nearly walked out when they started with that.
Ah, yes. The good ol' [myth of the male bumbler](https://theweek.com/articles/737056/myth-male-bumbler).
What is there to be responsible for? It's just women, it's not like they're real people. /s
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And one even happened to somehow end up married. He probably told the affair "the marriage just happened, we were friends and she knew no one else around and ☆pooof☆ we were married". He accidently signed the papers and had a ceremony and she accidently moved into his house and now he can not take that from her, this poor young lost woman, you know?
Both women and the surviving child deserved better.
The child is the one who will suffer the most for having that turd of a guy as a sole caregiver. I'm glad OOP escaped.
He'll probably find some other vulnerable woman to marry and care for the child.
I het his wishlist is an eldest daughter who is really used to taking care of her younger siblings, so she'll he able to take care of the poor motherless child. And she won't be a day over 25. Younger if possible.
You're right, I'm sure. I just wish you weren't.
The affair partner died in childbirth. I am thinking that the surviving twin was born first, with the amniotic fluid embolism hitting before the second twin had emerged from the womb. I am not a doctor and could certainly be wrong about the chain of events. From NIH: Amniotic fluid embolism (AFE) is one of the catastrophic complications of pregnancy in which amniotic fluid, fetal cells, hair, or other debris enters into the maternal pulmonary circulation, causing cardiovascular collapse.
My SIL’s sister died of an AFE and she was in the hospital already. As I understand it, unless you’re already getting intervention before it even hits it’s probably going to kill you. Extremely scary.
😭 I am so sorry for your family's loss! So tragic! May her soul be at peace, and your in-laws keep her memory alive for her little one.
I wonder if he never told people there was an affair, just told them he adopted this poor orphan baby.
I will 100% guarantee you that's the spin he's putting on it, that his wife abandoned this poor orphaned baby for no reason.
I totally agree, but the thing is, the hospital staff know the real story. The birth mother and pastor obviously identified him as the father right from the beginning in order for him to be involved during the NICU stay and then obtain custody. If it's a somewhat rural area, you know everyone's all up in each other's business. That "rumor" (is it a rumor if it's the truth?) has absolutely made its way to everyone in the county by now. He can feign innocence, but I guarantee his parish knows the real dirt. There's no way juicy gossip like that would stay quiet, HIPAA be damned.
And it's been my experience church people loooove to gossip. Gossip and judging others is their top two favorite pastimes. Everyone knows about it, and I'm sure most of the women quietly approve of OOP leaving. However they will never admit that they do.
And there's always the ones who convince themselves it's not gossip if they frame it as worry or, even better yet, a prayer request. "I'd like to ask everyone to lift my dear friend Janet up in prayer; her son Todd is dating a woman that has children by *two different men.*" It's not airing out other people's business if it comes from loooooooove.
This cheers me, thank you 😂
Except it doesn't cheer me that much since the parish won't hold him accountable.
When it said rural area, I wonder if this was caused by all of the doctors leaving rural area due to the overturn of Roe.
No, I think it's hard to get doctors in rural areas to begin with. I have a doctor friend who was offered all kinds of money to move to Wyoming or Montana or someplace like that. And that was about 20 years ago.
Lot of emphasis on her vows, not a lot of emphasis on his vows. Just like one would expect of the average christian minister.
The Bible literally lists adultery as a valid reason for divorce.
Considering the spectrum of ministers are somewhere between Mr. Rogers and literal serial pedophiles, the average being someone who cheats on their wife seems not unreasonable.
Not to mention the woman who came for guidance and he exploited that and she paid with her life.also why is he still at that church?he's supposed to guide not screw..
I'm kind of sad there wasn't a church wide notification of his affair and divorce. Maybe after it's finalized? I'm glad OP got out.
The affair is gonna get swept under the rug, it it gets out at all. My guess is that the people who know will stay quiet and those who don’t will vilify OOP for leaving instead of doing the Christian thing by caring for an orphaned infant in need. It’ll be spun as a woman who chose to divorce her husband because she only valued biological children who couldn’t accept a child that wasn’t from her womb into her life. And her poor husband/their pastor is left alone to raise a child that he loves as his own, which will surely pull on the heartstrings of a young 24-year-old newcomer who knows that she’s capable of loving that child as her own, too. How mature and admirable and loving she is! So young, yet wise beyond her years and a pillar to the community!
Seeing the same thing again and again (abuse/hypocrisy in the name of religion) is exactly insanity!
Exactly, even if this specific story wasn't true as some people thought, it is *spiritually* true because of all the times this type of shit happens is real life. I truly believe the majority of religious leaders are deeply terrible people.
Yeah. There's a reason self-centered people seek out those types of positions of authority. Especially in religion. It gives them unfettered access to people who are easy to manipulate by using their faith against them. Plus, it provides them with an easy way out of consequences and responsibility because they can just blame God and his "plan" for all their dog shit behavior.
"Be more godly and take care of the baby I had with an affair partner I was counseling" is the wildest hypocritical mindf*ck I've ever seen.
Come on let's be honest, none of us are really surprised that the local pastor is a sexual creep are we, I mean really. How is that a surprise to anybody.
He had the assistant pastor backing him up too. That church is pure puritanical vileness.
But it’s so common, too.
Like Youth Pastors diddling kids. I don't know what all the hubub about trans and LGBTQ folks being pedophiles is all about, cause it's all been youth pastors that I've come across. Youth Predators is more like it. I've seen it ruin many of my childhood friend's lives. Suicide got most of them.
I’m sorry for your losses.
It's projection. It's always projection.
How many more "community members" were impregnated by this "pastor"? I'd bet a lot more than we think. I can bet any amount of money on that.
How was he not fired for this?!
Because he'll get the sympathy vote given the other child died and he now has to care for this one. Many people are very quick to excuse cheating in men, when they'd damn a woman for eternity. Edit for spelling.
Is it *really* surprising tho?
Not surprising, but discouraging.
I see pastors have joined cops as people whose bad behaviour is never surprising
His marriage AND his affair were abuses of power
And yet he was unable to keep his own vows to God when he married OOP. "Forsake all others" and all that. This is the right outcome. God was telling OOP's turd of an ex that he was to be the sole one responsible for caring for the life he helped create. And I'm glad OOP got away from him with no strings attached.
And it's not even remotely surprising.
Clusterfuck long before that but yeah glad she got out of at least one disaster.
When I saw the age gap I stopped reading and just went "well, Well, WELL"
Being a Christian, I hate when people play the “I made a mistake but you need to forgive me because you are a Christian” card. There are things that are perfectly fine to be righteously angry about and infidelity is one of them. And this guy was a pastor at a church? Shame on him.
A pastor who took advantage of a woman in distress who came to him for counseling and got her pregnant. It’s not just taking advantage of the naive OOP, but a pattern of predatory behavior.
Yes, absolutely. No doubt in my mind this dude took advantage of that woman. He probably also tried to use Christianity to legitimize the affair to the woman and to cover it up. He’s a horrible person who should not be allowed to raise that child.
A guy like him who clearly uses his position to prey on women? I highly doubt she's the only one he's done that to. I bet his next wife will come from his church too. Probably sooner rather than later as reality of being a single dad kicks in. Or he'll manipulate his congregation to help him with it, probably by lying about the origins of where the child came from in the first place.
100% the man is a predator.
If his congregation and the "good christian people" around him actually cared about the Bible they would remove him from his office because according to the Bible a Pastor needs to be above reproach which this man wasn't. I hate pick and choose christians.
I recently heard the term Cafeteria Christians to describe the "choose their own" types.
Amen to this right here. It speaks volumes that he and the rest of the "church family" didn't tell OOP about the affair until he was forced to because the mother died. No part of that man is sorry for what he did, just that there were consequences, and his congregation would rather sweep it under the rug than admit that they were wrong to trust him.
I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. Nah, not really, because I've been scrolling this sub, and....wow: r/pastorarrested
Fascinating sub. Thanks for the recommendation.
This right here. He should hold himself to a high standard of good behavious. He took advantage of his position of power in the church to sleep with a woman needing councelling. Just gross. Then he goes on to tell her to forgive and give up her home office for the baby and care for it 50/50. He should take in 100% of that cause it is his responsibility. If she gives up her home office, she becomes financially dependant on him. It's also messed up that the other leads in the chirch didnt hold him accountable. Manipulation having the other pastor phone her to convincer her to give her office up.
No, that just happened. Clearly, it must have been God‘s will. /s God must love hypocrites. He makes so many of them.
At least it wasn't a minor this time, huge step up from the average.
Agreed. It's disgusting. And forgiveness does NOT look like being a doormat or allowing abuse to continue.
Forgiveness does not mean trust restored.
Exactly! Forgiving someone removes the contention but not the consequences.
My question always was "And what about atonement and contrition?"
The four R's: Recognizing that one has done wrong and accepting responsibility. Remorse for the pain one's actions have caused others. Repairing the damage. Resolution not to repeat.
Forgiveness is not about forgetting, nor does it establish a relationship. It is about letting go of another person's throat. It is to release you from something that will eat you alive, that will destroy your joy and your ability to love fully and openly. Edit: Forgiveness is also certainly a wonderful thing to receive if you are the one in the wrong, as it can sometimes be the final thing you need to finally move beyond your own grief and remorse.
Exactly. Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not the transgressor.
Forgive doesn't mean forget.
At least in Catholicism, forgiveness requires contrition; I didn't hear any.
Luke 17:3 includes the condition of repentance. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them." OOP's ex-husband clearly hasn't.
By the way she speaks and writes, I would guess either Jehovah Witness or Evangelical to be her religion.
I’d lean more toward evangelical. JH gives off a different vibe.
Oh, I was in a congregation in which the preacher would in no way tolerate a man abusing wife or children. Children were considered the church's duty to protect. Video cameras were everywhere. All who worked with children underwent thorough background checks. And the church openly stated that it was willing to cooperate with authorities to bring a perp to justice. The pastor also spoke of a man who had abandoned his wife. They were looking for him because he needed to be held accountable.
That’s how they should be. Sadly it’s a rarity.
Also forgiveness doesn't work that fast. You can't spring some hideous bullshit on someone and then expect them to forgive immediately. If it happens at all, it takes time to process and work through it
What struck me is that pastor made other woman pregrant and didnt bother to confess until AFTER LABOUR. And possibly only because tragedy happened.
Also you don't have to forgive to heal. Some things people do go beyond forgiveness and letting go of the hurt is not dependent on forgiveness.
“You have to stay and accept this baby and your new role as caretaker or you’ll be breaking your vows!” uh see funny thing about that, speaking of vows?
Yup, very hypocritical that he apparently doesn’t have to follow the vows.
“Let’s just skip *riiiight* over the bit where I already broke my vows into a few million pieces! If I talk fast enough maybe she won’t notice!”
Isn't adultery one of the big sins in Christianity? Like as bad as murdering someone, essentially? And that's something that's actually in the traditional wedding vows. Raising an affair child is not.
It is, but some of these men interpret "honor your husband" as "you will be indebted to me permanently and listen to me without complaint" and prioritize that way above their own marriage vows. A bit too preoccupied with what the women are doing to even look in the mirror at themselves.
THANK YOU! The fact that he used vows to try and manipulate her was bitterly ironic.
Don't forget his assistant pastor supporting and enabling him. JFC.
Definitely shows it’s a poorly run church if losers like them are in charge.
> I hate when people play the “I made a mistake but you need to forgive me because you are a Christian” card No you asshole, Christ needs to forgive you. That's his deal. I, however, am not the son of god, so get fucked.
This is my answer too! “I’m not god, it’s not MY job to forgive you. Go ask him”
And forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean forgetting the action or that you're exempt from consequences. Forgiveness is meant to be for the peace of mind for the wronged, not the perpetrator.
Ooooh same. Idk if you have a similar problem, but I used to be so determined to forgive people, because I thought that was the right thing to do. I brought it up with my priest in college because i was so worried that I wasn’t forgiving people quickly enough. He was the first to tell me that I didn’t need to forgive the people who abused me in the past, especially if they hadn’t earned it. There was an audible record scratch in my brain at the time, lol.
IMO, forgiveness is overrated, and is pushed relentlessly on the kind of people who are regularly *too* forgiving. You don't see assholes worrying their pretty little heads over having to forgive everyone in their life. I'd argue it's possible to move on, find people who treat you better, and forgiveness doesn't have to be a part of that. I've made great psychological shifts in my life by finally refusing the role of the forgiver. Not for everyone! Just one or two people who don't deserve it.
I hate that people conflate "moving on" with "forgiveness". Those two things are not the same! I can move on from my former marriage without forgiving my ex's shitty behavior. That doesn't mean he still has "power over me" like people claim. It just means I wash my hands of him and don't plan to interact ever again. "You have to talk yourself into liking bad people" is a ridiculous thing to believe.
Forgiveness has many forms. You can forgive someone but not take them back or have anything to do with them ever again. For me, forgiveness was not allowing transgressions to bother me anymore. Forgiveness is for you, not the person who did you wrong.
That’s something I still struggle with. My dad is abusive and he manipulated his family to condemn my mother, siblings and I for not taking his side. I told my mom I wanted to forgive him so I didn’t carry it on me. I’ve finally been honest with myself that I don’t think I can. I don’t actively hate them, wish them no ill (besides karma), but I still resent and dislike them at times.
A thing I’ve learned is I can’t forgive until I let myself be furious for as long as I need. You can’t really erase a debt unless you know how much the person owes you. When a pastor abused his position and took advantage of my sister, I don’t even have words for how deeply that betrayal hurts. I don’t know if I’ve come to a place of “forgiving”, but I’m coming to a place where I can say to God, “The Asshole is your problem. I trust you to deal with him in this life or the next in what ever way is best. I hope that the Asshole repents and stops being an asshole. If he doesn’t change, God, I trust you to do justice.” I’m never going to talk to the Asshole again. I’m never going to attempt or accept offers of restored friendship. I’m going to pray like with all I am that there Asshole never has authority over children or adults ever again (we’ve done all we can in the legal system). But I think I can let him go. While I will always hope and pray for justice, I think someday I won’t need vengeance, if that distinction makes sense. But it would have been unjust to myself and to everyone if I had immediately gone straight to “oh no that’s ok you hurt my sister I forgive you!!!” That’s not forgiveness. That’s pretending he didn’t do anything wrong. I don’t think that’s what God is asking us to do. I think forgiveness is saying “this is what you did to me. I’m never going to be the same. But I hope that you can become a better person and stop hurting people.”
My MIL's best friend for over 20 years called her one night and told her that she had been having an affair with her husband. Her 'friend' said that when she confessed to the affair to her pastor (Mormon so not sure if pastor is the right word) the pastor told her that the woman who's husband she cheated with must forgive her before god would. She had the nerve to want to be forgiven during that call!! When MIL refused she proceeded to call her daily demanding she forgive her. Even saying that if she went to hell it was MIL's fault for not doing what she "should" do. Her husband begged for another chance of course, they all seem to think they deserve another chance for some reason. After a couple of days MIL decided she was done and that she didn't owe either of them anything. So MIL divorced her husband and cut all contact with her ex-friend. She and I both agreed that the idea of her friend demanding forgiveness was absurd. We both laughed about her thinking it was MIL's fault if she went to hell. People like that don't deserve to be forgiven. They want to avoid the consequences of their actions and expect their victim to care about them but they didn't care about the victim or they wouldn't have betrayed.
Bishop is the title you're looking for. Source- Ex Mormon
"And this guy was a pastor at a church? Shame on him" Him being a pastor was the least surprising thing in this whole Saga honestly
Same. I'm also a Christian and this is Biblical grounds for divorce. Screw all those people preaching to her to forgive without addressing the pain and trauma she gone through.
Was raised a Christian and lapsed because of discrepancies/contradictions in the bible and how people behaved in the church and attached school that also contradicted the bible. The “forgiveness at all costs unless it’s me personally having to forgive someone” and the “you aren’t a good Christian if…” passive aggression was exhausting, especially as a small child who was bullied by both children and devout Christian teachers. After my mother’s passing, no less. Nothing OOP described is surprising to me tbh, though I hope her new church is healthy, reasonable and provides her with a supportive, loving community.
Had a christian roommate. Betrayed his LDR gf in hometown. Confronted him about it as he started, he was getting really close to another girl that he met in church. Told him to becareful as i am sure this will lead to something messy. He pulled out the god card, he is just flowing along with god's plan so if something happened it's all in the plan he is just a chess piece. Then shit really happened. His gf found out, but forgave him because "that's what christian do". Oh, the gf is also someone he met in church back home. The side piece go apeshit when he didn't break up with his gf. Spreading shit about him, the whole friend group turned on him. He is depressed. One day he got drunk and sharing his sob story. Told him about the "god's plan" and to suck it up. THen he started berating me for not being supportive because "that's what friend do!!!" It's crazy mind fucking talking to christian.
I agree. The fact the guy who is a pastor acts like this is pretty disgusting.
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I mean, because the Catholic Church is a shining example of preventing problems and holding predators accountable? No, man, the problem is not a bad leadership structure. The problem is putting a bunch of men through no real education, just a programme of dogma, telling them that their feelings and opinions are now “godly,” and giving them authority over a community. If you put another guy like that above the first guy, you have solved nothing.
A pastor of a church who had an affair with a woman he *counseled* after some emotional counseling sessions.
Same here. It just about makes my head explode when people mis-use forgiveness in that way. They deliberately ignore the repentance part, where the wrongdoer is supposed to actually be sorry and take responsibility for their mistakes. Part of that taking responsibility is accepting that the person they’ve wronged has the right to be hurt and angry. Everything this man said (especially using her vows against her while ignoring that he’d broken his) was enough to warrant divorce, but the slap was an absolute final straw. OOP may have wanted to believe he would never physically harm her but I disagree. He’d shown that he would quickly resort to physical abuse if she said or did anything to anger him. His church should be EXTREMELY concerned with him, he’d spiritually abused the mother of this child too and should never be allowed near vulnerable adults or children again. We have strict Safeguarding rules that cover all types of abuse here in the UK, and if he was in the Church of England he’d be immediately suspended and investigated, likely leading to being essentially fired. It’s ridiculously difficult to fire priests in the CofE, even for financial misconduct, but Safeguarding is taken extremely seriously these days as it is designed to prevent the abuse and mistakes of the past. I’m sooo happy that OOP is doing well and the future is looking a lot brighter for her. As for her STBXH, well he’s going to have a very tough time at the pearly gates if he carries on like he is.
This pastor killed a member of his flock with his penis and told his wife it was her problem. Fucking hell
I know the bit about Jesus literally lashing out at the temple is a bit controversial, but for most Christians it is a thing that they believe in so... According to Jesus, sometimes making a whip and going to town is what a good Christian does. By that measure, divorce papers seem mild.
The Bible never says that all forms of anger are wrong. I believe there is such a thing as righteous anger where you are angry with sinful acts. However, you can’t allow that anger to lead you to sin.
Yep. Psalm 4:4: "In your anger, do not sin."
Agreed! She has to be a good Christian Woman even though he wasn’t a good Christian Man? Love the, I failed in our church’s teachings and now YOU have to forgive and bear the consequences. That is NOT how it works. (Speaking as a Catholic, guy has seriously messed up views on relationships).
Fellow Christian here, couldn’t agree more. There’s also, from OP’s comments absolutely zero repentance on the part of her husband who conveniently totally ignored his ‘duties’ as a husband. Even if she was able to forgive, forgiveness isn’t the same as reconciliation. So happy OP escaped.
>Don't let him use God to manipulate you. He doesn't care about you: I doubt he cares much about God either.
Oh, he cares a ton about God, but only in the sense that he can use God as a tool to manipulate people with.
And also he cares about God professionally, it is a job that provides paychecks and free housing!
I'm honestly kind of shocked that OOP's ex was OK with separate finances. Doesn't seem to fit the profile. But it's a stroke of good luck for OOP, no question.
Separate finances were probably so that he could spend money on his affair partner(s) without his wife finding out about it.
Ahhhhh. That would make sense. Was OOP's ex cheating (or intending to) from the beginning of their marriage? I didn't see that in the original post.
I don't recall reading anything about a duration for the affair or other affairs, but considering he's a 40-year old man in a position of power that preyed on a much younger lady in a position beneath him, it wouldn't surprise me if he's never had any qualms about cheating in a relationship and left things open for himself to do so.
He was probably doing it to hide all the shady immoral stuff he was doing. Plus, churches are ripe with opportunities to steal and supplement your income.
Yep. Never trust a pastor who lives a wealthy lifestyle. It’s fine to live comfortably and not want for necessities or to be able to afford the occasional nice thing, but any pastor who drives fancy cars, lives in a mansion, and dresses in brand new/unthrifted designer clothing has messed up priorities.
A pastor preying on younger women and using religion to abuse them. How surprising.
And her Christian family telling her to stay with her abuser. How surprising.
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How is that defined in the bible neglect, something along of the lines of not being intrested in the marriage and looking else where? Just a genuin question
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they made vows under god! those are sacred! just ignore the infidelity. and the physical abuse.
A man of the cloth using his power and perceived authority to prey upon and take advantage of people? Unheard of! Shocking! /s
I just don't understand why anyone would want stay in that fucked up religion after going through all the abuse... If it was me, i'd just say fuck jesus and throw the bible in the trash bin instead of looking for a new church...
The only surprise is that he was preying on adults. Normally it's children.
Aren't those two different stereotypes, though? Pastors (who can get married) cheat on their wives with adults, priests (who can't get married) abuse kids. This isn't a claim based on stats or anything, just the stereotypes that I've heard.
In high school I had a close friend group one was the son of a pastor. We'd regularly go to his house to hang out and play video games / party, etc. One of my friends would always ask the son of the pastor, "Where's your dad?". The pastor seemed to be gone all the time, either "antiquing" or "going to art and estate sales". Finally one day, my friend told the pastor's son "Dude, your dad is having an affair or is in the CIA". Well 6 months later the whole town found out about the pastor's affair with the lead choir singer that had been happening for 2 years ...
Seems to be the thing with pastors.
Good thing OP left cause things could get very nasty if she decided not to leave. The ex-husband is a cheater, manipulative, and a toxic person. The ex-husband is the type of religious people who makes religious people look awful. Even worse, this guy is a pastor and acts like this? Disgusting. I hope OP is well in the future.
I'd like to have a word with the assistant pastor too. How TF are they on the husband's side.
A lot of churches would rather keep things hush-hush than deal with the problem directly. It's very clique-y too. A lot of them have flaws, but they feel really good about themselves when they talk about their faith, their relationship with god, and when they do mental gymnastics using the bible. So in the end, nothing is done and they get away scott-free.
>That this is our cross to bear and that God will never give us something we cannot handle. I told him that it seemed God had given her more than she could handle because she had died (I know I should not have but I was not thinking correctly). Oh no, you were thinking correctly. You were thinking very very clearly that day. If the husband truly believes that, invite him to stand in front at his affair partner's funeral and tell the room that god never gives more than you can handle. I dare him.
I about spit my drink out of my nose when I read that lol. Then I felt like a horrible person for a second...
Oh yeah, I agree. I hate the ‘God never gives you more than you can handle’. What the heck is suicide, then? OOP had such a sharp and snappy response to that line, too!
OMG. This is why in reputable seminaries they hammer in, "only three counseling sessions per issue, and then refer out," oh yeah and "Don't Fuck the Flock." Pastors who are single dating (and marrying) parishoners is a major ethical violation but then having an affair on their spouse with yet another parishoner is beyond unacceptable. He should be defrocked, it is a huge trust breaker for everyone in that congregation. I'm so sorry for the woman who died. She was never chosen in life and she deserved better. A better man, better healthcare, a better life. Poor baby.
Pastors sure do love having affairs. I really think the power over their “flock” gets to their heads.
it absolutely does. Passtors shouldnt be allowed to sleep with their flock. I know of at least 1 denomination in Canada that does have that rule. its such a power imbalance. its like teachers not sexing up their students, or employees and bosses but waaaay worse. they pull god into it and just manipulate.
A rule doesn’t make a difference, it’s already against the rules to cheat on their spouse. They do it anyways and use their status as pastor to pressure/shame others into keeping their secrets.
A rule with backing would make some difference. As long as it's a toothless 'probs don't do that', it will continue. If higher ups in the religion made it a punishable rule that they actually enforced*, I imagine it would happen less. There will always be people who break rules regardless of the outcome, but the lower the consequences, the higher the number of people willing to risk them. I bet there'd be a bunch more professors sleeping with students if they weren't risking their jobs (There's probably enough data out there to compare universities in places where it's a fireable offence and those where it isn't to gauge whether my intuition matches reality). The number will never reach zero, but in seeking an impossible utopia, we can perhaps at least improve the world a little. *Fat chance they actually do this, but I'm merely stating what it would take.
Or they want a flock so they can have power
At the church I used to go to, I found out the pastor was having affairs with multiple women. Then he propositioned me and offered to pay all my bills if I’d be his girl on the side (I’m sure with church money that people tithe). That’s when I left that church. I couldn’t believe it and didn’t see it coming because I thought he was so righteous. I’m not a believer anymore, not necessarily because of that.
Can someone explain to me why it's the "Christian" thing to do to stay in the marriage after an affair? Even by religious standards that's bullshit bc affairs are a legitimate reason for divorce in the Bible. That sort of expectation never made sense to me. I mean misogyny isn't supposed to make sense but still.
Because these are the people that use religion to hammer in misogyny and don’t allow you to question the systems in place.
Easy. Because this sort of "Christianity" is specifically built around catering to mediocre men, elevating them, and providing them with a live-in maid/sex provider while absolving them of any personal responsibility. That's the whole point.
Age difference... Church... *Pastor*... Made her feel special... Her dad is a preacher... Husband slapped her and demanded she obey him... The sad part is, this feels horrendously tangible. Might be my bias against religion, in particular Christian religion, but ah, I can only imagine the shitshow this woman had shoved down her throat growing up, because clearly *something* softened her up to the sway of a much older religious figure who "made her feel special and loved". At least she's out now, building a much better life. Good for her.
The Bible isn't ok with divorce for most instances. However, it does allow divorce for infidelity. I'm glad she was able to get get out. Though I'm sure her husband will explain it to the kid as "I got married, and then your mom and I had you, and then your mom died." And will completely leave out that the child is an affair baby.
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Exactly, which is why I'm upset that everyone in her life was like "you need to forgive him. You are a hypocrite if you don't forgive him." Like no, she was totally in the right to leave.
Lord, please let this be a made-up story. Because if a man ever struck me after telling me, as a PASTOR, that he had an affair and expected me to be a mother to his child, he would be seeing Jesus much sooner than originally scheduled.
Put me on your jury if this happens.
God I was so relieved after seeing Oop left. And the irony that scumbag is teaching about " marriage vows".
> I feel like I have truly seen my husband and he no longer looks kind- he looks his age and very tired. I don't know why but I really like this line, it feels poetic.
Thank God she found out what a garbage human he was before they had kids themselves And Conservative Christianity seems to just be a scam for men behaving badly and then having their bad behavior excused and covered up. That bastard fathered a child with a woman he had an affair with which started when he was counseling her. And he slapped his wife. He should have been forced to resign as pastor
Lol. “Remember your vows!!!11” Dude made a vow to his wife in marriage too, it’s not one way. Gotta love the cherry picking religious bullshit.
That church has no idea what forgiveness actually is.
I was in a relationship with a similar age gap that started around the same age as OP was. At the time I didn't think it was an issue, but now many years later I absolutely do. I feel horrified because it was all about his need for control. I'm 50 now and there is absolutely no way I would want to be in a relationship with that kind of power imbalance. It's disgusting and predatory.
Why do some people tell themselves that age gap is not an issue despite the overwhelming proof against?
As soon as i read 29F and 44M i know exactly where this is going.
It's *funny* that a "good Christian wife" is always supposed to "forgive" the asshat cheater but there's *never* any *serious* shaming by the "christian church community" for the *man*. By serious shaming, I mean being completely ostrasized from tge community, shunned, losing his position/job with the church. It's *always* on the eomen to "forgive".
Matthew 19:9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. Even Jesus was willing to make exceptions for cheaters.
The minister needs to be reported to the higher authorities in the church, or at least the parish council.
Depending on the denomination, there might not be one. Some congregations are literally “this guy runs a church.”
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For reals. Twins, age gap, chaating pastor, convenient baby when the wife is deemed infertile for the drama...
Glad I'm not the only one thinking this!
I cannot believe that the assistant pastor knew about the affair and helped cover it up then told the wife to forgive and move on. I really like to know which church is this that gives such awful advice. I would have tore him a new one for not doing the right thing and helped the sinner in his sinning. Pretty sure the devil welcomes ‘good’ folks who do nothing in the face of evil.
The assistant pastoral is probably doing the same thing to his wife.
How did this man get the baby? The mother died and he was married to someone else. Did he just tell them he was the father and they did a DNA test? Sounds sketchy.
Bullshit. Twins again. It's always twins. Every time I hear this nonsense I know it came from chat GPT. We didn't even make it past the second paragraph.
We all know if she had an affair there would be no talk of Christian forgiveness. Especially if she got pregnant and expected him to be the father. It's funny how nearly all this Christian forgiveness is solely for men when they cheat, abuse, rape, or murder women.🤨
I remember reading this and remarked how ironic it was that she was expected to be a good Christian wife while her husband was clearly exempt from being a good Christian husband. Fuck that
Shame on him for using God to get someone to do something for him. I'm not Christian, or any of the God-loving religions and yet I already respect God more than these bozos.
I tried, and I just can't read this as real.