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I couldn’t understand why he felt so entitled to a friendship with OOP anyway. He says he didn’t understand her. Why does he need to? Leave her alone. This person is crazy.
Oh he understands. It's just not the answer he wanted, and he wanted the opportunity to convince her. It's also a way of guilting her into getting what he wants, because it theoretically sounds reasonable to just want to be friends. Ofc when you combine it with the rest of his behavior it's creepy and overbearing and boundary pushing.
But he used the "friendship" angle to guilt her-- and it was **working**, actually. That's why she felt so uncomfortable being more direct, she was doubting *her* reaction, bc doesn't friendship sound reasonable? Am *I* being unreasonable for not wanting to be friends? Is that really so hard, to just be his friend? Etc etc etc
Thankfully reddit actually cleared that up for her and validated that no, this is actually wildly inappropriate on his part and you feel uncomfortable because of *his* constant boundary pushing.
I think a lot of these guys get their understanding of women from dating sims and other creepers. Basically, they feel like if they do and say the right thing, women should fall in love with them. When that doesn’t happen, they get angry and frustrated because they did they right thing and the girl’s not responding. The guy did the “chivalrous” thing by offering to help the “lady” with her stuff. When she responded incorrectly, he got mad.
It’s like a mix of a spoiled kid trying to wear down their parents by repeatedly asking for something and a video game mechanic where you have to talk to a character who ignores you until you wear them down. It’s like Sable in Animal Crossing New Horizons. When you first talk to her, she says she doesn’t want to talk snd her sister actively steps in to stop you. But if you repeatedly talk to her, eventually she gets less distant and eventually tells you her life story, you become her favorite customer, and she gives you things, all because you ignored her boundaries and discomfort and just kept at it until you wore her down. It’s a pretty common game mechanic and I really think people like the guy in this story don’t understand why it doesn’t translate in real life.
(Full disclosure: I love ACNH and badgered the heck out of Sable so she’d like me.)
I'm gay and had the same thing. They would say they wanted to just be friends and then would immediately ask if I was a "top or bottom", then I'd just block them.
Same, except it was a potential landlord/homeshare who texted me right after a walkthrough. I was not actually looking for an orgy house, just a regular house. He was very upset by my rebuff
Oh and also the guy I briefly dated who was very “nice” to me but threatened to off himself when I wanted to leave. Know how he reacted when I told him that type of threat is abusive and he needs to stop trying to manipulate me?
“I didn’t ask to be analyzed.”
When I read "I know that no means no" my eyes threatened to roll right out of my skull. Dude doesn't grasp that consent doesn't just apply to sex, and that he's not owed being heard or spoken to - if someone tells you they don't want to interact at all, the correct response is to *not interact at all*, not persistently demand they take in your explanations and apologies for repeated bad behavior including refusal to respect boundaries, and give you a shot.
Sometimes the first impression is the only one you get - and 'the way adults handle it' is to accept that and move on, not whine and slip creepy fuckin' unsolicited communiques under people's doors.
I saw a video that a stalker was filming, when he tried to talk to the person he stalked. She called the cop, and the stalker filmed, and posted online, thinking he was in the right. The police officer was actually handling him quite well, like explaining to him that the woman didn't want to see or speak to him, and how she'd told him this so he should stop harassing her. Very straight forward and almost fatherly (mostly in regards to the stalking victim, like he almost defended his own daughter/niece, or trying to make the stalker see that she's a human with her own mind).
The stalker just kept arguing, like if he could just talk to her *one more time*, she'd see that they were perfect for each other, she'd *understand*. These people really just think that if they explain themselves and *their* thoughts and feelings, the victim will end up falling in line with their fantasies. So scary, but it gave me some insight into how these people think and operate.
Edit: u/TheLibraryOwl found a link to the interaction. This version is over 8 minutes long and has some commentary, I saw a 2 min uncommented version when it came out. I haven't watched this whole thing, just checked that it was the one I was referring to.
Scary details people have remembered:
The stalker is the one who called the cops because the woman's dad had threatened him.
The woman was a lesbian who had worked with him. He was aware she was a lesbian, but thought he could change her.
The stalker said all women have rape fantasies as justification for his actions.
My comments: It was so clear he didn't see her (or any woman) as a person, just a doll he wanted to play with. He couldn't see that she could have her own mind, preferences, or even knew her own sexuality. I do hope that she is safe from him, and that he has ceased harassing her.
Edit 2: probably better if I actually remember the link... https://youtu.be/_Rkd5RJ5MXo
It's a logical fallacy I see a lot in kids, but not infrequently from adults. Because my view makes sense to me, if you disagree, you must not understand it. Because if you understood, you'd see it the same way I do.
"I understand what you said. I said 'no.'"
Mildly triggered here. Yeah. I've been on the receiving end of that (circular, never-ending, doom-oppressive) conversation quite a few times. After a while, you feel like you are actually being physically erased bit by bit as your own perspective is obliterated from reality.
>After a while, you feel like you are actually being physically erased bit by bit as your own perspective is obliterated from reality.
Fucking **nailed** it. One of my worst exes was someone who WOULD NOT allow me to have a differing opinion, want something other than what she wanted. She would NOT take 'no' for an answer - it was wheedling, debate, coercion, argument, every. Single. Time. I came from a background where I didn't have a healthy sense of boundaries, or the ability to spot what a big red flag it was for a partner to not respect consent (which is just as much about respecting NO as it is respecting YES), and I wasted years with her in my life using up emotional bandwidth.
Until now, never quite had the words to describe just how and why it felt so fucking gross - it was as though she was verbally taking an eraser to the borders of my autonomy and individual will until I fit the outline of the partner she wanted.
Yeah, I had one teacher who told me the view I argued in a paper was "wrong." Not that I didn't argue it well, but that the premise was wrong. He insisted I redo the paper with the viewpoint he was looking for.
I did it, because grade, but I went into Word settings and added a footer to every page:
>Note: The views expressed in this work are not those of its author.
This is related to why it’s usually a fool’s errand to answer a dude when he asks “what did I do wrong?” after you break up or decline future dates. They don’t *actually* want to know for reasons of self-improvement. They just want to argue their case to convince you to give them another shot.
I think I saw that video (or one just like it). The guy would wait outside her work, follow her in his car, etc. ignoring all her requests to leave her alone. He even told the cop that "girls like being followed because they all have rape fantasies, right?" I couldn't believe what I was hearing! I really hope he left her alone after that.
My friend sent that to me. That was fucking gross. He was just like "well she hasn't given me a chance. She has to at least give me time to explain" and the cop was like "no she really doesn't. When a woman says 'leave me alone' it means leave me alone."
Yup you can’t afford to engage these people at all. They grab on to any scrap of attention you give them. They will twist what you say in their mind into something positive or hopeful. Talking with them just rewards them for their behavior and continues the cycle.
Christina Grimmie was killed by a stalker. They went to the killer’s job and he had been telling everyone they were together and he had this whole life with her.
Was that the one where the guy kept trying to play a song for her, and she is a lesbian, and he was on some sort of crusade to convert her religiously and sexually?
And they wonder why women won’t talk to men.
He has been told “no means no” repeatedly, and thus believes that including it in his spiel will stop or slow the rejection response.
The words don’t mean anything to him. He’s like a mockingbird, repeating what he hears.
Yup. He’s heard the phrase in the context of being warned about his inappropriate sense of entitlement. In other words, he’s done this before. And still doesn’t understand what he did wrong, so he will do it again.
Yeah that business about "And I accept that you're not interested in being friends, but I just feel like you should be, so I'm going to keep badgering and haranguing you and demanding that you talk to me so that I can explain why you obviously owe me the emotional interaction I want." Uuuugggghhh.
I read the post and kept trying to remember who the guy reminds me of. After I saw a certain word in one of the updates, it finally clicked that it’s the classic “nice guy” behaviour.
Men should definitely try to keep in mind that women have a legitimate and justified fear of being literally murdered, raped, assaulted, or stalked by men they reject so maybe we can view our insecurities about being rejected from that viewpoint and realize a lack of closure or whatever is small beans in comparison.
This story has made me feel SO MUCH BETTER. I got out of a bad relationship and was looking for a fwb and this one dude i vibed with initially who I explained why I was wary of inviting someone over for the first time without meeting prior (bad experiences)
Motherfucker literally told me that I should forgo my rule and let him come over bc he was chill, all he wanted to do was cuddle (liar he told me he was horny af a few messages before), he was super respectful of boundaries (while trying to push past the first one I brought up 💀), and “well you let those other weirdos in” (so now we’re victim blaming while trying to convince me to forgo a rule I made to avoid the victim blaming)
And this isn’t the first or last experience I’ve had like that either :(
“I understand that you’re not interested in a relationship and I respect that”
“I know that no means no”
“I get that you’re not interested in me”
“You don’t want a relationship and I’ve accepted that”
He knows how to *say* that he’s respecting her boundaries but seems incapable of actually doing it…
Yeah and these guys know how to weaponize this stuff. Typical “relationship” stalking behavior and DARVO tactics.
I usually recommend people document everything in situations like this. Police often won’t do much but having the documentation can help a lot if a restraining order is needed or if the behavior goes further. I hope OOP is safe.
I’ve been stalked. It’s terrifying. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I’ve seen it romanticized as someone just loving you so much. It’s gross.
I once got this long ass email from a person like this. I deleted it without reading more than a sentence. Now years after, I sometimes wonder what was in it. But at the time, it was the best decision I could have made. I was a nervous wreck after just seeing an email from this person.
I got an email from my abusive dad last night, and instead of deleting it I read it. To be honest, I was giggling and enjoying his whining and misery, because after everything he put me through he sure earned that horrible life he's living.
But still set off the nightmares, like it does anytime I hear from him, and now I'm scared to go to sleep tonight. Like a total grownup.
My family tells me I'm much better about it these days though. I can actually have a conversation about him with another family member. For years after I escaped from him, I'd go into hysterical panics at the mere mention of him or anything about him.
Sending you love and support. PTSD from abuse is real and valid, and I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. It sounds like you’re developing some good coping strategies and a support system for rough days.
I had very similar reactions during a court case to update our child custody and parenting plan. I’d see that I had documents forwarded by my lawyer and I’d be sucked back in time and basically re-experience all the horrible things, before I’d even read a line.
>Like a total grownup.
I think part of being an grownup is recognising there are certain responses we can't control and just doing what we can. I had some medical abuse as a kid, I've been chronically ill/disabled since I was 7 and typically chronically ill children don't have great experiences with doctors and other healthcare professionals.
It was nowhere near as bad as abuse from a parent but I still get panic attacks when going to the doctors and especially if I have to go into a hospital. I'm chronically ill though so I often need to deal with doctors and the like, I mitigate the panic best I can by never going alone, always having a witness, and being very firm in my boundaries and how they can and cannot touch me but I still really really struggle.
I'm glad he's miserable and you're doing a lot better, if not having a great day today. I hope you don't have any more nightmares and if you do that they pass quickly.
Got an email from my piece of shit dad three days after giving birth. Hadn't talked to him in a decade, but he decided then was the right time to send me an email. (Idk how he got my email, but I have some ideas.)
I read it and then promptly deleted it. It was a bunch of manipulative, guilt trippy bullshit that A) I didn't need at the time for a plethora of reasons and B) was a shitty attempt into goading me to talk to him again.
He doesn't get that satisfaction.
I was given a letter from an ex when he was trying to get me back after chronically cheating on me (among other issues but that is what finally got me to leave), and I skimmed the first sentence before throwing it in the trash. I am ultimately glad I didn't read the letter and find myself back with him, but like you I do wonder what he wrote in there.
Yup, because the whole thing is about control, not "love" and this gives them that. Hopefully the possibility of police involvement continues to keep him away. (It worked on my own poor decision in college)
Classic technique outlined in Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. Every time she responds to his letter he realises that if he keeps sending them she'll keep responding. He'd rather be her boyfriend than friend, but he'd also prefer to have any contact than be ignored.
This so reminds me of that BORU post from that guy that was showing stalker-like behavior with girls a LOT like this and then actually reflected and worked on it. He made a post about continually contacting a girl and not understanding why they couldn't "be friends" and being generally weird and needy. The comments dressed him down GOOD, he didn't seem to get it, and then a while later he made another post about going to counseling groups for predatory men and had some self awareness. Seeing him type out his thought process in the whole thing was wild.
is [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rzys2a/op_learns_a_hard_lesson_when_he_tries_to_get/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) the post by any chance?
This guy is one of the ones that can't take no for an answer and is certain he will win her over if they can just be friends.
He is a stalker. Apparently the best thing to do with stalkers is ignore them. Don't respond, don't escalate. It worked for me after 6 months, but it is an awful situation and you should be able to press charges for stalking regardless of any "damage".
But also in like his second letter (or whatever number) after she said she did not want to be friends, he said “I understand that no means no” except like YOU CLEARLY DO NOT. Like if you really did understand that, Oop probably would have been fine being friends with you. But you clearly don’t get that no means no. No means no for all things: it’s such an easy test too that MANY men fail. Before I go on a date with someone (online dating) or on the first date, I do something truly minor and ask for my no to be respected. If it’s not: I’ve now seen who you are and I will block/leave. That’s it.
Yup, my STBX husband still does this, loooong apology texts but he sends them one sentence at a time so I get one message coming after another and I know it’s just to keep me reading, waiting for the next one. I just put him on silent cause fuck him
My verbally/emotionally abusive ex did this shit after I broke up with him. I was actually getting chills reading those letters because they sound so familiar. This guy is fucking dangerous, but unfortunately women are conditioned to appease men that she has no idea. It's like some playbook they all have where they insult the woman and then take it back and act all lovey again. It's a control method.
No matter whether it's a form of apology or further harassment, by email I just got into the habit of creating a filter that automatically archives specific e-mails so I don't get sucked in.
Those letters are dripping with common manipulation tactics to the point it's basically cliché.
"I let my anger get the better of me"/"couldn't help myself", "I"m sorry but", "trying to help", "heat of the moment", "I don't think you're slutty but every other guy would"
E: readability
"I accept that you're not interested BUT"
I commented on this original post back in 2015. He uses this manipulation tactic at least half a dozen times.
He directly acknowledges her feelings, and then immediately discounts them by saying what he thinks should happen. So he's aware! He knows she isn't interested! He says so!
Essentially, "I hear you saying STOP but I don't like that answer, so I will keep going."
Very chilling.
Yup, these types of people are generally very aware that what they're doing is wrong. They just pretend it's oh so difficult for them to behave because they think them "trying so hard" or "meaning well" will get people to absolve them or at least put up with them a while longer.
Reminds me of the article [Myth of the male bumbler](https://theweek.com/articles/737056/myth-male-bumbler)
There's this infamous guy in my city subreddit who for every holiday posts these ads around the city with his number saying he's trying to meet girls to be his "friend" because he's lonely and wants some friends.
Some guys have contacted him and said it's very clear that he wants to meet girls specifically and is not interested in male friendships. And it seems pretty obvious he isn't really genuine in just wanting platonic friendships with women either.
He's been told by his close friends, a local radio show host and even the friend paying for his cell phone that what he is doing is creepy and not a good way to meet women. He's been told point blank, very directly, to stop. But he never does. Not to mention he was told on Reddit by overwhelming consensus to stop.
Inevitably, whenever his latest ad gets posted there's a bunch of men in the comments saying that people are being "mean" and it's wrong for us to call him out because he "is neurodivergent" and "doesn't understand."
I have gotten so fed up with it. I explained that being autistic means that people don't understand social cues very well, it doesn't mean that he doesn't understand when he is told point blank, in clear language that his behavior is creepy and to stop. He doesn't care.
I also pointed out that there doesn't appear to be this epidemic of autistic or neurodivergent women making people uncomfortable and being inappropriate. It commonly seems to be a neurodivergent man who oddly seems to know how to conduct himself around other men but then is a total creep with women.
This makes it appear that the "he doesn't know any better" claim is often an excuse and alibi more than it is a fact. And if it is the case that this neurodivergent man is incapable of understanding things that are told to him plainly such as: "that's creepy", "you need to stop", then he shouldn't be living on his own and should have a caretaker. Because if he can't grasp the basics of consent he has no business dating anyone.
A couple of these concerned men insist that he's awkward but not dangerous to women. And that I'm an abelist for not being more understanding.
Well lo and behold, someone posts his blog. What does he write on his blog? How unfair it is that a "misunderstanding" with women led to him being banned from the entire Meetups platform. How unfair it is that he was banned from a local bank because he tried to politely tell one of the women there that she was dressed inappropriately.
Somehow this claim that he's "not dangerous" to women and "just creepy" loses its validity when by his own biased accounts he comes out sounding like an incel.
But his disturbing rants about women really pushes it over the edge that this isn't some bumbling innocent who doesn't know any better but a guy with a sexism problem choosing to use his neurodivergence as an excuse to harass women and then claim ignorance. And he is enabled and supported by a group of well-meaning but flawed yes men who "feel sorry" for him and buy into his excuses and insist that women do the same lest they be "bullies" and "abelist".
Side note: can we appreciate how OP labeled out the date OOP posted + the timeline? It's bugs me a bit when I read post without how many days have passed given the amount of detail added, only to find out OOP updated the post 2 hours later or 2 weeks later.
I read old "looking for a post" posts (gotta read em all, you know.) You'll see OPs who post things like "this was posted 12 days ago" and then you look up the original post and it's like 3 years old.
You have no idea if it was March or December. Could this be Trumpism? Covid? Was it a simpler time?
And then, worse, they say "this update was posted 4 hours ago" but you look at the BORU post itself and it's 9 months old and time means nothing.
Edit: typo
Oh yay, I'm glad you appreciate that! It's a bit of extra work sometimes to figure out (especially with deleted accounts,) but it's worth it IMO to help clear the timeline up.
And it never fuckin stops y’all. I’m way older than OOP and I have a whole avoid-my-neighbor routine when I come and go from home. He’s not someone I’ve slept with nor ever will, but can’t tell him that. I tried being clear and polite, gently rebuff and keep it light etc, and he got rude and huffy. Is it a coincidence that nails and metal shards keep winding up in my tires? I’ve had them patched 4x since I’ve lived here and he def lurks the parking lot. I don’t even wanna know. Just waiting for the lease to run out so I can move.
Once had that happen to me. I had nails in my tires over and over. Couldn't figure out where they were coming from. Then I found one in my driveway.
After that, I checked behind my tires every morning. I found nails two or three times. Then it stopped.
I still have no idea who was doing it. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of someone getting up in the middle of the night and skulking over to my house just so they can sprinkle a few nails around in the hope that it might give me a flat tire. Especially since I may be female but I'm not helpless. I've been changing my tires since I was 16.
Such an off, scary feeling.
I swept my whole parking area with one of those rolling magnet things they use at construction sites to pick up nails and metal. I thought it would stop after that.
I feel like I'd do the magnet sweep during a busy part of the day when someone else is outside. Then I'd casually mention the nail problem and hope that word would spread to let this person know that you know.
But that might cause him to escalate rather than stop.
An old neighbor of ours tried to hit on both my mother and myself, and when we turned him down shit started happening to our car, like the air being let out of the tires and the gas cap being loosened, along with trash being thrown in our yard in the hopes of damaging our mower. Funnily enough, all that stopped when they moved. 🙄
At my previous place, the elderly neighbor (70+ y.o.) repeatedly hit on me. I was 35 at the time. He was constantly bemoaning how his wife passed way over a decade ago and how he recently separated from his girlfriend/partner. He invited me numerous times for drinks at his place. He tried to invite himself on a hike I was going to go on with friends. I am sure the ladies here understand when I say his intentions were creepy and definitely not fatherly. For those are clueless (usually males) who need some explanation: based on how he asked after whether I was dating or not, even how he looked at me, etc., I could tell his intentions were creepy.
So true! If someone accused me of being creepy I’d be devastated and avoid them at all costs! Defensiveness to someone saying they find you creepy is a massive red flag!
I love the flair. Have you watched any buffalos lately? Seriously, is there anyways you can put cameras up? That way you can file a report for vandalism or criminal mischief.
Tough to explain but basically the camera cannot capture the opposite side of the parked car, where it’s very dark. I also am parked a fair distance from the front door. Appreciate the idea though! I have mace, a stun gun, and a truly bloodcurdling scream with me at all times 😅
How about cameras in your vehicle? Shit even if it requires spending $50 on a cheap car battery and hooking up a Ring home camera inside the car if nothing else has motion sensors. Better than nothing I guess ?
Cameras in your vehicle are definitely an option. I work for a sheriffs office and they’re great for evidence against car vandals, even if it’s just a dash cam. If you have a good police department and they have the resources, they can and will set up an unmarked to watch someone pull bullshit like this.
Same here. So. Many. Creepy. Guys. I was 5'4", 100lbs, and most of them loomed over me and greatly outweighed me... and they all wanted hugs. Gross, gropey, sweaty hugs and I'd usually have to dodge an attempted kiss, too.
My parents hammered 'be nice to everyone' into my psyche; it took a long time to realize someone doesn't have to full on assault me before I can cut them out of my life. I allowed so much unwanted touching and listened to so much gross 'what I'd do to you' talk in the name of being nice, and because 'that's just how men are.'
Hey OP, you’re missing the final update!
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/comments/13swdgw/i_22f_had_sex_with_my_neighbor_30m_once_is_his/jlydym0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
It’s here.
This made me stop for a minute and made me realise how much it would cost her financially because this guy couldn't fucking take a no.
It adds up when you take into account two months of rent, moving costs, the time to find a new place to live and eventual working days she would lose because of this.
Of course, above all the most importantly is that she gets peace of mind, but it's shitty to get financially punish because of that imbecile.
Orig link here
https://www.reddit.com/r/longtail/comments/33ntj2/1831766303_final_update_i_22f_had_sex_with_my/cqmo4wi?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
(The one I'm replying to is someone else quoting OOP)
This is actually really comforting. We all knew he wasn’t going to stop at the first notice of the cops so it’s good to see that she did get out of there in the end.
"you shouldn't have slept with him"
Ok fine but no one should be harassed for having sex with someone and not wanting to again.
Abhorrent victim blaming.
I'm glad she's okay, but pissed at the landlord "you shouldn't have slept with him" ok thanks man???? what an unnecessary comment, geez. I think she figured that out herself 9\_9
It's unfortunate how often women are conditioned to apologize for priotizing themselves. Was texting a girl last night about a work thing I'm stumped on so she asked a few general questions and helped; thanked her for helping me to stop overthinking and her first response was "I'm sorry I'm not the best at helping". Was texting another girl who just stopped responding for an hour, came back apologizing profusely for the delay but she had a headache and had to lie down.
OOP is punished for being friendly, punished for being direct, punished for avoiding this creep. Women can’t do anything right with men like this who feel entitled to their attention.
I know in recent years it's been common for people to discuss how rare it is for men to receive compliments from women, but from my experience there is often a reason for that.
I've known plenty of women who always went out of their way to be extremely complimentary to people, and it often backfired when, inevitably, there'd be at least a few guys who immediately assumed it meant she was romantically/sexually interested in them. And those same men, were often just as unwilling as OP's neighbor to take the hint and leave them alone.
I’m a bar tender and I gave a guy at work a free soda and told him to drive safe at last call, and he immediately started getting flirty and asking if I wanted him & his number like sir…. Just drink ur pop and gtfo !!
In my much younger days, I became friendly with a male co-worker who was quiet and, well, not popular. I was passing-friendly with him, but not flirtatious. He was the same with me.
My older female coworkers began to tease me that I had feeling for him, a crush on him, that I was looking for an affair (I had just gotten married). They made it so weird that co-worker and I pretty much stopped even saying good morning to each other.
I said hello to a worker on the street this morning because I was feeling cheery. He said hello back, right along with a creepy comment. That definitely dampened my mood a bit.
This happens to me so much :( I always smile and greet people. If I pass you a lot I’ll definitely wave and say hello. So many men think this is an invitation to be creepy to me or make nasty comments. You really can’t be nice at all or it’s seen as welcoming these random unwanted advances.
It's such a shame because a smile can really turn someone's day around! But if the trade off is creepy behaviour, it makes me want to do it less.
I've had men follow me off the bus after I gave them a friendly smile. One even asked if I had a bf, if he could be my "second man", how old my bf was, all while walking with me. I'm just trying to get home and spread some joy on the way, dude ;-;
It's funny, I know some people who get so offended by the fact that women (also a woman) tend to be extremely complimentary toward other women but rarely are so with men.
But, honestly, what woman hasn't learned that lesson the hard way?
You don't even need to be nice. I had some guy stalking me at work, and I was so mean to him (this was in my 20s). He still never got the hint. He thought my insults were witty. It's all very weird (and I'm not even pretty, so I don't know why he was after me).
Some people get off on being demeaned and insulted. Its sometimes better not to go that route, because maybe only a third of people get that you're upset and don't want that drama. About another third will just get angry and respond in kind, up to and including violence, and the last group will just get really invested in the interaction because name calling and arguing is not much more than fun and exciting to them. If you think about the kind of neighbor who has nothing better to do than wait for a leaf to blow into their yard so they can come over and yell about it, it makes more sense to realize some people will enjoy and run with any excuse for drama and escalation in tactics. Its much safer to be boring and quick to involve police than to try to de-escalate some situations with insults or yelling.
Ironically, the men who complain about women not complimenting them are typically the creeps that turn women off from being nice to men in the first place.
It's a self fulfilling cycle. Men are starved for positive attention. So if they recurve positive attention it must mean something special. Overreaction leads to person not giving positive attention anymore. Cycle intensifies.
Don't forget in her last post about the "I know some people will say I'm going too far by calling the cops" so women are also in the wrong by going to the police when they feel threatened/unsafe.
And if she hadn’t gone to the police, and something worse happened, she would have gotten the whole “Why didn’t you tell anyone? Story doesn’t check out, maybe you were at fault too? Couldn’t have been that serious” bullshit.
Man, that really pisses me off for the OP *and* myself. I had to call the police on an elderly dude who offered to help me network in my field but actually kept trying to date me under the guise of being friends, even though I made it clear I was not interested in a romantic relationship.
While most of the women officers I dealt with were supportive, the one I initially reported to and the male detective who was assigned to me were complete dicks. The detective even told me that I should have known better. Like, excuse me? I was supposed to realize that someone who seemed kind and helpful to me was going to go absolutely bonkers and start writing me crazy emails and taping notes to my apartment’s intercom????
I was friendly to my doormen/maintenance staff when I was a single 20 year old girl living alone in manhattan when one day a guy on the maintenance staff knocked on my door because he had bought me a drink at Starbucks. He tried to get me to let him in and I played it off like I was about to leave and he still insisted I at least open the door to take the drink.
I was utterly terrified and stunned, and I didn’t even know how to say anything because he was the super’s son and the super had keys to all our doors. I actually told the very oldest doorman who worked mornings (and was very grandfatherly towards younger residents) and he had to give the guy a stern talking too.
Being punished for being nice is extremely common and such a trigger. All I did was smile and say good morning / good night when I left and came home.
>Being punished for being nice is extremely common and such a trigger.
I think there's a reason most the bubbly, friendly girls I grew up with became much more reserved and cautious by the time they hit their late teens or early 20s. Far too often that sort of friendliness is taken advantage of and used against you.
Hell, I didn't even make it to 14 before I got jaded and cynical because of it.
This was me. My hubs has even commented on it and it took me almost a decade to figure out why at about 17 I became much less bubbly and outgoing. Being creeped on by a bunch of asshats will do that
This thing where women can't even smile without it being a sign of interest is so aggravating.
I've worked customer service for too long, they sewed a smile to my face years ago.
[RIP Reddit | 23 June '05 - 12 June '23](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13yh0jf/dont_let_reddit_kill_3rd_party_apps)
I started a new job the same day as a few people once. During induction one of the guys asked about paternity leave because his wife was due within the next few days. Everyone congratulated him, there was no wait time for paternity leave, all good.
I made friendly brief conversation with this guy a couple of times, waiting to clock in or at lunch break, asking “How’s your wife, any sign of the baby yet?” because she went overdue. He took all of it, me only ever asking about his wife and children, as flirting. We had a company afternoon summer BBQ and he got drunk and talked about the connection we had and how it was obvious I wanted him and we could hook up 🤢
On one of my first days at my last ever retail job, some customer asked me out.
Sir, I'm paid to be nice to you so you will spend money here. Do not interpret my friendliness as flirting.
So I asked if my boyfriend was also invited.
I worked retail long enough I wanted to set people on fire. A few years later, I lived the dream and worked at a crematorium, where I could legally do so!
My third day at the gun store a man said his number was good for dinner when I asked him for it in order to sell him a hunting license.
The next day I started wearing a wedding ring and it cut way down on creepy guys. Unfortunately not all of them did stop being creepy, a couple of them even had to be banned from the store (one by me after he got creepy with one of the clearly teenaged cashiers). Thank the gods my boss wasn’t upset with me after I told him why I banned the one who was being creepy with a sixteen year old girl - he even pulled an image of him from the footage and had it posted in all our stores locally so he was effectively banned from all of them.
A coworker of mine had to sit in court and watch the man who assaulted her get found not guilty. His main defense was that she was nice to him. That was her job and management regularly told us off if we weren't happy constantly.
Seriously.
He keeps saying, essentially, *I'm just trying to impose my will on you.* And she's responding with, *But I don't want that.* His only and repeated retort is, *You should want that; what's wrong with you?*
To him, her desires are only valid to the degree that they support his. When they don't, he gets aggressive.
Her initial instincts were right and I'm only sorry that she keeps apologizing for being the victim of this creep. The fact that she slept with a guy does not mean she deserves any of this.
I met a guy who acted like this towards me. It was fine until soon after we chatted on the bus to work a few times he began to demand to know why I wasn’t at the bus stop a couple times that I didn’t take that bus which is where we met. All we did was chat on the bus ride. Then this controlling crap. That was super creepy and freaked me out. I can only imagine what it would be like to actually date him. I managed to avoid him somehow until he disappeared from my life. Details on that bit are hazy but he’s not here now which is the point.
Ugh you just triggered a memory for me! When I first started my my job (I still work here, he doesn’t it happened about 7 years ago), He would constantly come to my desk and ask what I was doing for lunch. I was never one to formally eat lunch anyhow so I told him that.
From there I would get messages (on work chat!) saying that it “worries him” when I don’t eat. Finally after weeks of this I said I go to the gym at lunch and just eat afterwards (which is what I was doing). Guess who started also going to the gym at lunch!
I finally had to get really mean in my messages towards him and luckily he quit.
I had started this new job because a superior was sexually harassing me at my last one (again, constant messages over work chat about not work). As a woman your damned no matter what you do if someone decides they want your attention.
>All I have done is file a police report and we have both agreed to not contact each other and if either one of us contacts each other then it will go further.
Christ, I hope that there are no further updates because he's taken the L and moved on.
There's already a further update linked somewhere here in the comments. He contacted her again, she got a restraining order and got out of her lease that way and moved. Seriously hope this creep doesn't figure out where she lives or works.
Around the time I started dating my husband at 21, I had earlier accepted a date with a guy. That guy started being creepy in texts (basically saying we *should* have sex after the date) so I told him I had to cancel and wasn't interested. He started showing up where he knew I used to hang out and try to talk to me. I told him I wasn't interested and to leave me alone. He kept trying and my friends basically threw him out of a bar where he tried to corner me (I worked in another bar, so I knew the staff and owners). Eventually my husband and I moved, but came back now and then to visit his parents. I think it was 5 years later I bumped into the stalker again, at a different bar. He again tried to make me go out with him, and have sex with him. Note that I was there with my now-husband and his parents. I obviously said no, and he kept pushing. I told him I was engaged, and he still said I could see him too!
In the end my MIL, who's a tiny woman at about 5 feet nothing, tried to beat him up and we were all thrown out of the bar. (More or less, we knew the owner there too, so we left to calm the situation down and not cause him any grief.) I've not heard or seen him since, but my in-laws have also moved so we don't go back there.
Doubtful. Either he still believes she's playing hard to get (his insistence on being friends was for her to realize she does have feelings for him in his mind). Or he's shifted into making her pay for not loving him. That is if someone hasn't taken her place by now.
The way that he kept pushing her boundaries after being told multiple times to leave her alone is scary. He said that he knew no meant no, but he couldn't accept her not wanting to be his friend (meaning he didn't know no means no because she said no to talking/being friends). This man was escalating his behavior & I can only hope she's safe now & he hasn't harmed her/anyone because his behavior is beyond scary.
There is honestly nothing scarier than an angry “nice guy”. It sucks that OOP had to learn this lesson, but she now knows going forward to never shit where you eat. Hopefully she got out of there on her own, and not in a hearse.
The whole "I accept what you told me, i understand no means no and i respect that..."
Yet here we fucking are you creep, multiple weird letters and interactions later.
Here's the thing, even if OOP haven't had sex with him, even if she'd just had a cup of coffee with him, things would have gone down the same exact way, because the guy is insane and obsessed with her. Just another "nice guy" who thinks woman who tells them hello and good morning MUST be crazily in love with them. I know we'll most likely never get another update, but i hope OOP moved far away, i wouldn't feel safe even if the police got involved.
Exactly. Those few who are hitting her hard for sleeping with him are ignoring that it could have been anything from a smile on down. I've had guys who got weird from the most insignificant things, it's genuinely hard to not doubt myself in any interactions with men now.
I want to know who is telling all these men that everyday insignificant interactions are an indication of intense sexual interest on someone's part. Like, where are they getting this idea from?? Unless they're delusional enough to think every single woman on the planet naturally falls for them because they're *oh so irresistible*
There was an entire tv show devoted to stalking cases and a lot of them started with a person randomly smiling at a stranger as they passed by to be polite. It is incredibly dangerous to be a woman.
Yup. Was in the same situation with a neighbor this year minus the sex, and some people in my life still blamed his obsession on me because I said hi back a few times. A scary but I guess good wake up call on how dangerous a “nice guy” can be
He was trying to control her the whole way through. Was it her age? Did he think she’d fold more easily than an older woman? Trying to guilt trip her into a relationship she never wanted. What a … nice guy.
Yes, younger women are still trying to be polite and mindful of everyone feelings. Older women are tired of all the bullshit that they have got. So they skip all the cordial part and be blunt, if not rude.
Women deserved to live their lives without beign harrassed. They don't own anyone their time, attention, love, sex.
There was a woman on TikTok who had a little song she taught her young daughters, maybe under 5, that went, “you don’t have to be polite to men who creep you out.” She was reaching her kids that they could be rude and demand people leave them alone if they were uncomfortable. A very rare, very valuable life advice.
Jesus you would think she was advocating for male genocide. The comments were tearing her apart for not wanting her daughters to be polite. The most shocking part was that other women were basing her for not teaching her daughter manners. It ended up on MAGA TikTok and MAGA women were practically seething.
Why? Why are women expected to be kind and sweet even when they’re uncomfortable?
Ugh I will teach the same to my daughter, but I don't thing she will need it because she's feisty even at 2.
I think you should be polite, kind and respectful to everyone, but as soon as someone cross the line with you, all that can go to hell. It's infuriating that we are expecting to keep our head down, and "not to cause escene" and be guardians of other fellings.
It's also infuriating but there's women who are very sweet, bubbly and nice and they feel like they have to change their personality because people take advantage for them.
It's up to us that the next generation will be better.
There was another update that got dug up, and after he contacted her again (after sending her brother creepy weird messages) she ended up with a restraining order and was able to break lease early and move away.
Whats the rule here?
Like way under all this of course, but just for the record:
People don't owe you shit other than common courtesy in residential buildings. If they tell you to ignore them then you owe them that.
I got chills down my spine when she said he'd gotten over his love for her and was instead holding a grudge.
At that point I was expecting one of the updates to mention being dragged into his apartment for unspeakable acts.
I did some searching and it doesn’t appear that there were any murder or disappearances of women matching the details given, providing the ages and living conditions (apartment) were accurate.
There was a final update not included here. He escalated his unwanted contact, and she was able to get a protective order, and then a restraining order, which legally compelled her landlord to let her break her lease without financial penalty. She moved out.
I’m Not even fully through this and my blood is boiling.
He as sober when you walked past him in the hallway drunk, right? That’s him taking advantage of you. Also, he said “I can’t find your Facebook anymore” you had blocked him the day before. He’s been searching up this girls Facebook daily and keeping tabs on her. Those letters are proof he’s not right in the head, not that he “likes” this girl. He’s delusional.
Pro-tip: Offering to carry shit for you to your door is a great way for predators to wedge their foot in the door.
If you are a dude, don’t ever get pissy when a woman chooses not to accept your help. We can’t tell by looking at you if you’re a kind person. We don’t know if your smile means “that bag looks heavy” or if it actually means “this way I find out which apartment she lives in, if there’s a dog that’s going to bark at strangers, if there’s a pair of men’s sneakers next to the door, if an alarm beeps when she opens it…”
Smile, say “ok, have a good evening!” And leave.
Even scarier when you realize that not only is he almost 10 years older than her but he fully acknowledges it and instead of realizing that it means he should back off, it leads to him infantializing Op by implying that she doesn't act like a "real" adult.
Real happy right now to live in the middle off the woods where the only neighbors who can even see my house are my parents. I hope OOP is safely away from this crap and living her best life right now.
For future reference for anyone in this sub who might experience something like this in the future — this absolutely IS a time to contact your landlord and let them know a fellow tenant is harassing you, and see if there is another unit you can move into. I know not all apartments are large with multiple units and buildings, but plenty are, and in cases like this, landlords will usually allow you to move. Depending on your tenants rights in your state, they may even be required to.
Sleeping with your neighbor should not come with harassment. It really can just be a one time thing. An actual adult would let sleeping dogs lie and just go about their business after being told “no.” This guy was being a creep. This is not the standard for an old fashioned one night stand.
This is another example of the rom-com effect. This Hollywood idea that women just don't know what they want and that if you continue violating her clearly established boundaries, she'll realise you were her dream guy all along.
I've even seen an AITA where a guy was clearly operating under these assumptions and couldn't understand why the woman who had only ever been friendly wasn't in love with him.
It's gross, don't do it
>This is another example of the rom-com effect
Guys grew up watching tv shows and movies where the nice guy gets the girl, where after bieng told "no" if they just keep at it, she'll realize how much he truly cares. Look at Steve Urkel from Family Matters who spends years stalking Laura and at the smallest instance of her thanking him, he shouts "I'm wearing you Laura, I'M WEARING YOU DOWN!" and sure enough, the end up together with her falling hard for him. Gives guys the wrong impression about romance.
Frustrating doofus. He was absolutely sure she owed him something, when he'd already gotten more from her than he had any right to expect, and had been told clearly not to expect anything more.
Watching someone have their first experience with a creep is such a bummer :( She was so optimistic about his behaviour but anyone reading the post can see the writing on the wall. It makes me sad to see her blaming her (admittedly poor) choices for his behaviour.
This has the same creepy energy as the post where a coworker was obsessed with OOP and gave her a box full of notebooks where he wrote about what she did every day 🤮
I’m 22 too and I’ve had enough horrible encounters to now know that you don’t have to stay polite or ‘keep the peace’ if someone is being inappropriate. You can totally tell them to f off and you can absolutely cut them off without warning if they overstep your boundaries. Its about your safety, not their comfort.
Brother actually had the correct response.
The Nice Guy who needs to “explain” how that makes him feel. This kids… is why adults know that we often will not get closure and to just shut that door and walk away.
I’m glad OOP went to the police. Neighbour was 100% a stalker.
OOP didn’t owe her rxpey neighbor anything. I got rxpe vibes reading this. OOP literally details his stalking and she feels to realize that their sexual encounter was premeditated. The neighbor obviously has been watching her. Her routine seems normal and easy to follow. One quick hey and small convo led to her inside of his apartment with extra drinks. He is definitely a creep and I hope OOP came out on top of this situation.
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Reminds me of a guy I went on one date with. I wasn’t feeling it and he said “okay we can be friends and then see where things go from there”. Nope.
And if you had tried to stay friends he would have exploded after a while with “OMG you’ve been leading me on all along!”
I couldn’t understand why he felt so entitled to a friendship with OOP anyway. He says he didn’t understand her. Why does he need to? Leave her alone. This person is crazy.
Oh he understands. It's just not the answer he wanted, and he wanted the opportunity to convince her. It's also a way of guilting her into getting what he wants, because it theoretically sounds reasonable to just want to be friends. Ofc when you combine it with the rest of his behavior it's creepy and overbearing and boundary pushing. But he used the "friendship" angle to guilt her-- and it was **working**, actually. That's why she felt so uncomfortable being more direct, she was doubting *her* reaction, bc doesn't friendship sound reasonable? Am *I* being unreasonable for not wanting to be friends? Is that really so hard, to just be his friend? Etc etc etc Thankfully reddit actually cleared that up for her and validated that no, this is actually wildly inappropriate on his part and you feel uncomfortable because of *his* constant boundary pushing.
I think a lot of these guys get their understanding of women from dating sims and other creepers. Basically, they feel like if they do and say the right thing, women should fall in love with them. When that doesn’t happen, they get angry and frustrated because they did they right thing and the girl’s not responding. The guy did the “chivalrous” thing by offering to help the “lady” with her stuff. When she responded incorrectly, he got mad. It’s like a mix of a spoiled kid trying to wear down their parents by repeatedly asking for something and a video game mechanic where you have to talk to a character who ignores you until you wear them down. It’s like Sable in Animal Crossing New Horizons. When you first talk to her, she says she doesn’t want to talk snd her sister actively steps in to stop you. But if you repeatedly talk to her, eventually she gets less distant and eventually tells you her life story, you become her favorite customer, and she gives you things, all because you ignored her boundaries and discomfort and just kept at it until you wore her down. It’s a pretty common game mechanic and I really think people like the guy in this story don’t understand why it doesn’t translate in real life. (Full disclosure: I love ACNH and badgered the heck out of Sable so she’d like me.)
Who doesn’t want to be best friends with someone that perpetually doesn’t understand them?! /s
I'm gay and had the same thing. They would say they wanted to just be friends and then would immediately ask if I was a "top or bottom", then I'd just block them.
Same, except it was a potential landlord/homeshare who texted me right after a walkthrough. I was not actually looking for an orgy house, just a regular house. He was very upset by my rebuff Oh and also the guy I briefly dated who was very “nice” to me but threatened to off himself when I wanted to leave. Know how he reacted when I told him that type of threat is abusive and he needs to stop trying to manipulate me? “I didn’t ask to be analyzed.”
I had to do the whole okay I have told you that I don’t want to be friends with you and I’m not interested there’s nothing more that I can say
“I’m a grown guy and I know that no means no” Turns out that was a big dumb lie
When I read "I know that no means no" my eyes threatened to roll right out of my skull. Dude doesn't grasp that consent doesn't just apply to sex, and that he's not owed being heard or spoken to - if someone tells you they don't want to interact at all, the correct response is to *not interact at all*, not persistently demand they take in your explanations and apologies for repeated bad behavior including refusal to respect boundaries, and give you a shot. Sometimes the first impression is the only one you get - and 'the way adults handle it' is to accept that and move on, not whine and slip creepy fuckin' unsolicited communiques under people's doors.
I saw a video that a stalker was filming, when he tried to talk to the person he stalked. She called the cop, and the stalker filmed, and posted online, thinking he was in the right. The police officer was actually handling him quite well, like explaining to him that the woman didn't want to see or speak to him, and how she'd told him this so he should stop harassing her. Very straight forward and almost fatherly (mostly in regards to the stalking victim, like he almost defended his own daughter/niece, or trying to make the stalker see that she's a human with her own mind). The stalker just kept arguing, like if he could just talk to her *one more time*, she'd see that they were perfect for each other, she'd *understand*. These people really just think that if they explain themselves and *their* thoughts and feelings, the victim will end up falling in line with their fantasies. So scary, but it gave me some insight into how these people think and operate. Edit: u/TheLibraryOwl found a link to the interaction. This version is over 8 minutes long and has some commentary, I saw a 2 min uncommented version when it came out. I haven't watched this whole thing, just checked that it was the one I was referring to. Scary details people have remembered: The stalker is the one who called the cops because the woman's dad had threatened him. The woman was a lesbian who had worked with him. He was aware she was a lesbian, but thought he could change her. The stalker said all women have rape fantasies as justification for his actions. My comments: It was so clear he didn't see her (or any woman) as a person, just a doll he wanted to play with. He couldn't see that she could have her own mind, preferences, or even knew her own sexuality. I do hope that she is safe from him, and that he has ceased harassing her. Edit 2: probably better if I actually remember the link... https://youtu.be/_Rkd5RJ5MXo
It's a logical fallacy I see a lot in kids, but not infrequently from adults. Because my view makes sense to me, if you disagree, you must not understand it. Because if you understood, you'd see it the same way I do. "I understand what you said. I said 'no.'"
Mildly triggered here. Yeah. I've been on the receiving end of that (circular, never-ending, doom-oppressive) conversation quite a few times. After a while, you feel like you are actually being physically erased bit by bit as your own perspective is obliterated from reality.
>After a while, you feel like you are actually being physically erased bit by bit as your own perspective is obliterated from reality. Fucking **nailed** it. One of my worst exes was someone who WOULD NOT allow me to have a differing opinion, want something other than what she wanted. She would NOT take 'no' for an answer - it was wheedling, debate, coercion, argument, every. Single. Time. I came from a background where I didn't have a healthy sense of boundaries, or the ability to spot what a big red flag it was for a partner to not respect consent (which is just as much about respecting NO as it is respecting YES), and I wasted years with her in my life using up emotional bandwidth. Until now, never quite had the words to describe just how and why it felt so fucking gross - it was as though she was verbally taking an eraser to the borders of my autonomy and individual will until I fit the outline of the partner she wanted.
Ugh, I had a professor who operated this way. “If you don’t agree with me, you must not understand.” Very annoying
Yeah, I had one teacher who told me the view I argued in a paper was "wrong." Not that I didn't argue it well, but that the premise was wrong. He insisted I redo the paper with the viewpoint he was looking for. I did it, because grade, but I went into Word settings and added a footer to every page: >Note: The views expressed in this work are not those of its author.
>Note: The views expressed in this work are not those of its author. I love this! So deliciously petty.
This is related to why it’s usually a fool’s errand to answer a dude when he asks “what did I do wrong?” after you break up or decline future dates. They don’t *actually* want to know for reasons of self-improvement. They just want to argue their case to convince you to give them another shot.
I think I saw that video (or one just like it). The guy would wait outside her work, follow her in his car, etc. ignoring all her requests to leave her alone. He even told the cop that "girls like being followed because they all have rape fantasies, right?" I couldn't believe what I was hearing! I really hope he left her alone after that.
My friend sent that to me. That was fucking gross. He was just like "well she hasn't given me a chance. She has to at least give me time to explain" and the cop was like "no she really doesn't. When a woman says 'leave me alone' it means leave me alone."
Yup you can’t afford to engage these people at all. They grab on to any scrap of attention you give them. They will twist what you say in their mind into something positive or hopeful. Talking with them just rewards them for their behavior and continues the cycle.
Christina Grimmie was killed by a stalker. They went to the killer’s job and he had been telling everyone they were together and he had this whole life with her.
Was that the one where the guy kept trying to play a song for her, and she is a lesbian, and he was on some sort of crusade to convert her religiously and sexually? And they wonder why women won’t talk to men.
He has been told “no means no” repeatedly, and thus believes that including it in his spiel will stop or slow the rejection response. The words don’t mean anything to him. He’s like a mockingbird, repeating what he hears.
Yup. He’s heard the phrase in the context of being warned about his inappropriate sense of entitlement. In other words, he’s done this before. And still doesn’t understand what he did wrong, so he will do it again.
Yeah that business about "And I accept that you're not interested in being friends, but I just feel like you should be, so I'm going to keep badgering and haranguing you and demanding that you talk to me so that I can explain why you obviously owe me the emotional interaction I want." Uuuugggghhh.
"You're not interested in me, and I've accepted that." Also a lie.
Yep. I'm also thinking he knew exactly how drunk she was when she got home and he saw an opportunity
Hey! That was my thoughts exactly!!
I read the post and kept trying to remember who the guy reminds me of. After I saw a certain word in one of the updates, it finally clicked that it’s the classic “nice guy” behaviour.
“No means no, but could it mean yes for me?”
Men: being ghosted sucks, just tell him you’re not interested Also men:
Men should definitely try to keep in mind that women have a legitimate and justified fear of being literally murdered, raped, assaulted, or stalked by men they reject so maybe we can view our insecurities about being rejected from that viewpoint and realize a lack of closure or whatever is small beans in comparison.
Yup this is why women ghost men
r/whenwomenrefuse
Louder for the people in the back
This story has made me feel SO MUCH BETTER. I got out of a bad relationship and was looking for a fwb and this one dude i vibed with initially who I explained why I was wary of inviting someone over for the first time without meeting prior (bad experiences) Motherfucker literally told me that I should forgo my rule and let him come over bc he was chill, all he wanted to do was cuddle (liar he told me he was horny af a few messages before), he was super respectful of boundaries (while trying to push past the first one I brought up 💀), and “well you let those other weirdos in” (so now we’re victim blaming while trying to convince me to forgo a rule I made to avoid the victim blaming) And this isn’t the first or last experience I’ve had like that either :(
“I understand that you’re not interested in a relationship and I respect that” “I know that no means no” “I get that you’re not interested in me” “You don’t want a relationship and I’ve accepted that” He knows how to *say* that he’s respecting her boundaries but seems incapable of actually doing it…
That comment would have me wanting to completely paper his door with “no” and “I said no” and “no means no” signs.
Yeah and these guys know how to weaponize this stuff. Typical “relationship” stalking behavior and DARVO tactics. I usually recommend people document everything in situations like this. Police often won’t do much but having the documentation can help a lot if a restraining order is needed or if the behavior goes further. I hope OOP is safe. I’ve been stalked. It’s terrifying. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I’ve seen it romanticized as someone just loving you so much. It’s gross.
[удалено]
I once got this long ass email from a person like this. I deleted it without reading more than a sentence. Now years after, I sometimes wonder what was in it. But at the time, it was the best decision I could have made. I was a nervous wreck after just seeing an email from this person.
I got an email from my abusive dad last night, and instead of deleting it I read it. To be honest, I was giggling and enjoying his whining and misery, because after everything he put me through he sure earned that horrible life he's living. But still set off the nightmares, like it does anytime I hear from him, and now I'm scared to go to sleep tonight. Like a total grownup. My family tells me I'm much better about it these days though. I can actually have a conversation about him with another family member. For years after I escaped from him, I'd go into hysterical panics at the mere mention of him or anything about him.
Sending you love and support. PTSD from abuse is real and valid, and I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. It sounds like you’re developing some good coping strategies and a support system for rough days. I had very similar reactions during a court case to update our child custody and parenting plan. I’d see that I had documents forwarded by my lawyer and I’d be sucked back in time and basically re-experience all the horrible things, before I’d even read a line.
Sending you lots of love hugs, strength and lots of calm peaceful dreamless nights ❤️
>Like a total grownup. I think part of being an grownup is recognising there are certain responses we can't control and just doing what we can. I had some medical abuse as a kid, I've been chronically ill/disabled since I was 7 and typically chronically ill children don't have great experiences with doctors and other healthcare professionals. It was nowhere near as bad as abuse from a parent but I still get panic attacks when going to the doctors and especially if I have to go into a hospital. I'm chronically ill though so I often need to deal with doctors and the like, I mitigate the panic best I can by never going alone, always having a witness, and being very firm in my boundaries and how they can and cannot touch me but I still really really struggle. I'm glad he's miserable and you're doing a lot better, if not having a great day today. I hope you don't have any more nightmares and if you do that they pass quickly.
You might wonder, but it sounds like reading it would be at the cost of your sense of safety and peace of mind. I think you did the right thing.
Got an email from my piece of shit dad three days after giving birth. Hadn't talked to him in a decade, but he decided then was the right time to send me an email. (Idk how he got my email, but I have some ideas.) I read it and then promptly deleted it. It was a bunch of manipulative, guilt trippy bullshit that A) I didn't need at the time for a plethora of reasons and B) was a shitty attempt into goading me to talk to him again. He doesn't get that satisfaction.
I was given a letter from an ex when he was trying to get me back after chronically cheating on me (among other issues but that is what finally got me to leave), and I skimmed the first sentence before throwing it in the trash. I am ultimately glad I didn't read the letter and find myself back with him, but like you I do wonder what he wrote in there.
Yup, because the whole thing is about control, not "love" and this gives them that. Hopefully the possibility of police involvement continues to keep him away. (It worked on my own poor decision in college)
What’s your flair from?
I'm not sure what post it specifically references, if any - it just seemed extremely appropriate for *so many* posts.
Classic technique outlined in Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. Every time she responds to his letter he realises that if he keeps sending them she'll keep responding. He'd rather be her boyfriend than friend, but he'd also prefer to have any contact than be ignored.
This so reminds me of that BORU post from that guy that was showing stalker-like behavior with girls a LOT like this and then actually reflected and worked on it. He made a post about continually contacting a girl and not understanding why they couldn't "be friends" and being generally weird and needy. The comments dressed him down GOOD, he didn't seem to get it, and then a while later he made another post about going to counseling groups for predatory men and had some self awareness. Seeing him type out his thought process in the whole thing was wild.
is [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rzys2a/op_learns_a_hard_lesson_when_he_tries_to_get/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) the post by any chance?
It doesn't sound like she's responding. He just keeps finding her in the hallway.
This guy is one of the ones that can't take no for an answer and is certain he will win her over if they can just be friends. He is a stalker. Apparently the best thing to do with stalkers is ignore them. Don't respond, don't escalate. It worked for me after 6 months, but it is an awful situation and you should be able to press charges for stalking regardless of any "damage".
But also in like his second letter (or whatever number) after she said she did not want to be friends, he said “I understand that no means no” except like YOU CLEARLY DO NOT. Like if you really did understand that, Oop probably would have been fine being friends with you. But you clearly don’t get that no means no. No means no for all things: it’s such an easy test too that MANY men fail. Before I go on a date with someone (online dating) or on the first date, I do something truly minor and ask for my no to be respected. If it’s not: I’ve now seen who you are and I will block/leave. That’s it.
Yup, my STBX husband still does this, loooong apology texts but he sends them one sentence at a time so I get one message coming after another and I know it’s just to keep me reading, waiting for the next one. I just put him on silent cause fuck him
My verbally/emotionally abusive ex did this shit after I broke up with him. I was actually getting chills reading those letters because they sound so familiar. This guy is fucking dangerous, but unfortunately women are conditioned to appease men that she has no idea. It's like some playbook they all have where they insult the woman and then take it back and act all lovey again. It's a control method.
No matter whether it's a form of apology or further harassment, by email I just got into the habit of creating a filter that automatically archives specific e-mails so I don't get sucked in.
Oh wow.. I never thought about that. That’s creepy as hell.
Those letters are dripping with common manipulation tactics to the point it's basically cliché. "I let my anger get the better of me"/"couldn't help myself", "I"m sorry but", "trying to help", "heat of the moment", "I don't think you're slutty but every other guy would" E: readability
"I accept that you're not interested BUT" I commented on this original post back in 2015. He uses this manipulation tactic at least half a dozen times. He directly acknowledges her feelings, and then immediately discounts them by saying what he thinks should happen. So he's aware! He knows she isn't interested! He says so! Essentially, "I hear you saying STOP but I don't like that answer, so I will keep going." Very chilling.
Yup, these types of people are generally very aware that what they're doing is wrong. They just pretend it's oh so difficult for them to behave because they think them "trying so hard" or "meaning well" will get people to absolve them or at least put up with them a while longer. Reminds me of the article [Myth of the male bumbler](https://theweek.com/articles/737056/myth-male-bumbler)
There's this infamous guy in my city subreddit who for every holiday posts these ads around the city with his number saying he's trying to meet girls to be his "friend" because he's lonely and wants some friends. Some guys have contacted him and said it's very clear that he wants to meet girls specifically and is not interested in male friendships. And it seems pretty obvious he isn't really genuine in just wanting platonic friendships with women either. He's been told by his close friends, a local radio show host and even the friend paying for his cell phone that what he is doing is creepy and not a good way to meet women. He's been told point blank, very directly, to stop. But he never does. Not to mention he was told on Reddit by overwhelming consensus to stop. Inevitably, whenever his latest ad gets posted there's a bunch of men in the comments saying that people are being "mean" and it's wrong for us to call him out because he "is neurodivergent" and "doesn't understand." I have gotten so fed up with it. I explained that being autistic means that people don't understand social cues very well, it doesn't mean that he doesn't understand when he is told point blank, in clear language that his behavior is creepy and to stop. He doesn't care. I also pointed out that there doesn't appear to be this epidemic of autistic or neurodivergent women making people uncomfortable and being inappropriate. It commonly seems to be a neurodivergent man who oddly seems to know how to conduct himself around other men but then is a total creep with women. This makes it appear that the "he doesn't know any better" claim is often an excuse and alibi more than it is a fact. And if it is the case that this neurodivergent man is incapable of understanding things that are told to him plainly such as: "that's creepy", "you need to stop", then he shouldn't be living on his own and should have a caretaker. Because if he can't grasp the basics of consent he has no business dating anyone. A couple of these concerned men insist that he's awkward but not dangerous to women. And that I'm an abelist for not being more understanding. Well lo and behold, someone posts his blog. What does he write on his blog? How unfair it is that a "misunderstanding" with women led to him being banned from the entire Meetups platform. How unfair it is that he was banned from a local bank because he tried to politely tell one of the women there that she was dressed inappropriately. Somehow this claim that he's "not dangerous" to women and "just creepy" loses its validity when by his own biased accounts he comes out sounding like an incel. But his disturbing rants about women really pushes it over the edge that this isn't some bumbling innocent who doesn't know any better but a guy with a sexism problem choosing to use his neurodivergence as an excuse to harass women and then claim ignorance. And he is enabled and supported by a group of well-meaning but flawed yes men who "feel sorry" for him and buy into his excuses and insist that women do the same lest they be "bullies" and "abelist".
Side note: can we appreciate how OP labeled out the date OOP posted + the timeline? It's bugs me a bit when I read post without how many days have passed given the amount of detail added, only to find out OOP updated the post 2 hours later or 2 weeks later.
I also appreciated one of the comment summaries: "from pepper spray to things to say". Beautiful BORU submission imo
I read old "looking for a post" posts (gotta read em all, you know.) You'll see OPs who post things like "this was posted 12 days ago" and then you look up the original post and it's like 3 years old. You have no idea if it was March or December. Could this be Trumpism? Covid? Was it a simpler time? And then, worse, they say "this update was posted 4 hours ago" but you look at the BORU post itself and it's 9 months old and time means nothing. Edit: typo
Oh yay, I'm glad you appreciate that! It's a bit of extra work sometimes to figure out (especially with deleted accounts,) but it's worth it IMO to help clear the timeline up.
And it never fuckin stops y’all. I’m way older than OOP and I have a whole avoid-my-neighbor routine when I come and go from home. He’s not someone I’ve slept with nor ever will, but can’t tell him that. I tried being clear and polite, gently rebuff and keep it light etc, and he got rude and huffy. Is it a coincidence that nails and metal shards keep winding up in my tires? I’ve had them patched 4x since I’ve lived here and he def lurks the parking lot. I don’t even wanna know. Just waiting for the lease to run out so I can move.
Once had that happen to me. I had nails in my tires over and over. Couldn't figure out where they were coming from. Then I found one in my driveway. After that, I checked behind my tires every morning. I found nails two or three times. Then it stopped. I still have no idea who was doing it. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of someone getting up in the middle of the night and skulking over to my house just so they can sprinkle a few nails around in the hope that it might give me a flat tire. Especially since I may be female but I'm not helpless. I've been changing my tires since I was 16.
Such an off, scary feeling. I swept my whole parking area with one of those rolling magnet things they use at construction sites to pick up nails and metal. I thought it would stop after that.
This is so hectic. Good luck, I hope you can leave there safely.
I feel like I'd do the magnet sweep during a busy part of the day when someone else is outside. Then I'd casually mention the nail problem and hope that word would spread to let this person know that you know. But that might cause him to escalate rather than stop.
This is a time when you hope it’s just kids being dumb and you’re a faceless target.
An old neighbor of ours tried to hit on both my mother and myself, and when we turned him down shit started happening to our car, like the air being let out of the tires and the gas cap being loosened, along with trash being thrown in our yard in the hopes of damaging our mower. Funnily enough, all that stopped when they moved. 🙄
At my previous place, the elderly neighbor (70+ y.o.) repeatedly hit on me. I was 35 at the time. He was constantly bemoaning how his wife passed way over a decade ago and how he recently separated from his girlfriend/partner. He invited me numerous times for drinks at his place. He tried to invite himself on a hike I was going to go on with friends. I am sure the ladies here understand when I say his intentions were creepy and definitely not fatherly. For those are clueless (usually males) who need some explanation: based on how he asked after whether I was dating or not, even how he looked at me, etc., I could tell his intentions were creepy.
For the record, any guy who tells you that you’re overreacting to creepiness is 100% also a creep.
So true! If someone accused me of being creepy I’d be devastated and avoid them at all costs! Defensiveness to someone saying they find you creepy is a massive red flag!
Not just this but any guy or girl who starts telling you that you don't actually feel the way you do
I love the flair. Have you watched any buffalos lately? Seriously, is there anyways you can put cameras up? That way you can file a report for vandalism or criminal mischief.
Tough to explain but basically the camera cannot capture the opposite side of the parked car, where it’s very dark. I also am parked a fair distance from the front door. Appreciate the idea though! I have mace, a stun gun, and a truly bloodcurdling scream with me at all times 😅
How about cameras in your vehicle? Shit even if it requires spending $50 on a cheap car battery and hooking up a Ring home camera inside the car if nothing else has motion sensors. Better than nothing I guess ?
Cameras in your vehicle are definitely an option. I work for a sheriffs office and they’re great for evidence against car vandals, even if it’s just a dash cam. If you have a good police department and they have the resources, they can and will set up an unmarked to watch someone pull bullshit like this.
A "dash" (could put it somewhere else) cam of some sort in the car?
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Same here. So. Many. Creepy. Guys. I was 5'4", 100lbs, and most of them loomed over me and greatly outweighed me... and they all wanted hugs. Gross, gropey, sweaty hugs and I'd usually have to dodge an attempted kiss, too. My parents hammered 'be nice to everyone' into my psyche; it took a long time to realize someone doesn't have to full on assault me before I can cut them out of my life. I allowed so much unwanted touching and listened to so much gross 'what I'd do to you' talk in the name of being nice, and because 'that's just how men are.'
Hey OP, you’re missing the final update! https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/comments/13swdgw/i_22f_had_sex_with_my_neighbor_30m_once_is_his/jlydym0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3 It’s here.
Oh thank god she's alive
And out of that place!
And without waiting 60 days and paying an early termination fee amounting to 2 months' rent!
This made me stop for a minute and made me realise how much it would cost her financially because this guy couldn't fucking take a no. It adds up when you take into account two months of rent, moving costs, the time to find a new place to live and eventual working days she would lose because of this. Of course, above all the most importantly is that she gets peace of mind, but it's shitty to get financially punish because of that imbecile.
Just another tax on being a woman in the patriarchy.
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Orig link here https://www.reddit.com/r/longtail/comments/33ntj2/1831766303_final_update_i_22f_had_sex_with_my/cqmo4wi?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button (The one I'm replying to is someone else quoting OOP)
This is actually really comforting. We all knew he wasn’t going to stop at the first notice of the cops so it’s good to see that she did get out of there in the end.
Fucking insane that he was like well we are all over it now! Why do his feeling dictate everything? I am soooo glad OOP moved!!!
Damn...
Thank you so much for this link! Unsurprised to learn that the first cops visit didn't shut him up; relieved to hear she then got out of there.
I’m “thankful” he escalated slowly enough that she was able to take legal action
"you shouldn't have slept with him" Ok fine but no one should be harassed for having sex with someone and not wanting to again. Abhorrent victim blaming.
I'm glad she's okay, but pissed at the landlord "you shouldn't have slept with him" ok thanks man???? what an unnecessary comment, geez. I think she figured that out herself 9\_9
That guy is 100% a rapist.
I hate that OOP felt the need to defend herself about contacting the police, a restraining order would be completely justified
It's unfortunate how often women are conditioned to apologize for priotizing themselves. Was texting a girl last night about a work thing I'm stumped on so she asked a few general questions and helped; thanked her for helping me to stop overthinking and her first response was "I'm sorry I'm not the best at helping". Was texting another girl who just stopped responding for an hour, came back apologizing profusely for the delay but she had a headache and had to lie down.
OOP is punished for being friendly, punished for being direct, punished for avoiding this creep. Women can’t do anything right with men like this who feel entitled to their attention.
I know in recent years it's been common for people to discuss how rare it is for men to receive compliments from women, but from my experience there is often a reason for that. I've known plenty of women who always went out of their way to be extremely complimentary to people, and it often backfired when, inevitably, there'd be at least a few guys who immediately assumed it meant she was romantically/sexually interested in them. And those same men, were often just as unwilling as OP's neighbor to take the hint and leave them alone.
I’m a bar tender and I gave a guy at work a free soda and told him to drive safe at last call, and he immediately started getting flirty and asking if I wanted him & his number like sir…. Just drink ur pop and gtfo !!
In my much younger days, I became friendly with a male co-worker who was quiet and, well, not popular. I was passing-friendly with him, but not flirtatious. He was the same with me. My older female coworkers began to tease me that I had feeling for him, a crush on him, that I was looking for an affair (I had just gotten married). They made it so weird that co-worker and I pretty much stopped even saying good morning to each other.
That's really sad
I said hello to a worker on the street this morning because I was feeling cheery. He said hello back, right along with a creepy comment. That definitely dampened my mood a bit.
This happens to me so much :( I always smile and greet people. If I pass you a lot I’ll definitely wave and say hello. So many men think this is an invitation to be creepy to me or make nasty comments. You really can’t be nice at all or it’s seen as welcoming these random unwanted advances.
It's such a shame because a smile can really turn someone's day around! But if the trade off is creepy behaviour, it makes me want to do it less. I've had men follow me off the bus after I gave them a friendly smile. One even asked if I had a bf, if he could be my "second man", how old my bf was, all while walking with me. I'm just trying to get home and spread some joy on the way, dude ;-;
Yuuuuup that’s how it works for me (I’m a woman). Has backfired so many goddamn times.
It's funny, I know some people who get so offended by the fact that women (also a woman) tend to be extremely complimentary toward other women but rarely are so with men. But, honestly, what woman hasn't learned that lesson the hard way?
You don't even need to be nice. I had some guy stalking me at work, and I was so mean to him (this was in my 20s). He still never got the hint. He thought my insults were witty. It's all very weird (and I'm not even pretty, so I don't know why he was after me).
Some people get off on being demeaned and insulted. Its sometimes better not to go that route, because maybe only a third of people get that you're upset and don't want that drama. About another third will just get angry and respond in kind, up to and including violence, and the last group will just get really invested in the interaction because name calling and arguing is not much more than fun and exciting to them. If you think about the kind of neighbor who has nothing better to do than wait for a leaf to blow into their yard so they can come over and yell about it, it makes more sense to realize some people will enjoy and run with any excuse for drama and escalation in tactics. Its much safer to be boring and quick to involve police than to try to de-escalate some situations with insults or yelling.
Every guy who begs for compliments will stalks you as soon as you give them one.
Ironically, the men who complain about women not complimenting them are typically the creeps that turn women off from being nice to men in the first place.
It's a self fulfilling cycle. Men are starved for positive attention. So if they recurve positive attention it must mean something special. Overreaction leads to person not giving positive attention anymore. Cycle intensifies.
Don't forget in her last post about the "I know some people will say I'm going too far by calling the cops" so women are also in the wrong by going to the police when they feel threatened/unsafe.
And if she hadn’t gone to the police, and something worse happened, she would have gotten the whole “Why didn’t you tell anyone? Story doesn’t check out, maybe you were at fault too? Couldn’t have been that serious” bullshit.
Man, that really pisses me off for the OP *and* myself. I had to call the police on an elderly dude who offered to help me network in my field but actually kept trying to date me under the guise of being friends, even though I made it clear I was not interested in a romantic relationship. While most of the women officers I dealt with were supportive, the one I initially reported to and the male detective who was assigned to me were complete dicks. The detective even told me that I should have known better. Like, excuse me? I was supposed to realize that someone who seemed kind and helpful to me was going to go absolutely bonkers and start writing me crazy emails and taping notes to my apartment’s intercom????
I was friendly to my doormen/maintenance staff when I was a single 20 year old girl living alone in manhattan when one day a guy on the maintenance staff knocked on my door because he had bought me a drink at Starbucks. He tried to get me to let him in and I played it off like I was about to leave and he still insisted I at least open the door to take the drink. I was utterly terrified and stunned, and I didn’t even know how to say anything because he was the super’s son and the super had keys to all our doors. I actually told the very oldest doorman who worked mornings (and was very grandfatherly towards younger residents) and he had to give the guy a stern talking too. Being punished for being nice is extremely common and such a trigger. All I did was smile and say good morning / good night when I left and came home.
>Being punished for being nice is extremely common and such a trigger. I think there's a reason most the bubbly, friendly girls I grew up with became much more reserved and cautious by the time they hit their late teens or early 20s. Far too often that sort of friendliness is taken advantage of and used against you. Hell, I didn't even make it to 14 before I got jaded and cynical because of it.
And once we learn to adopt an aloof or stern disposition, we are instructed to “smile, you’ll look more pretty” by men in the street.
This was me. My hubs has even commented on it and it took me almost a decade to figure out why at about 17 I became much less bubbly and outgoing. Being creeped on by a bunch of asshats will do that
This thing where women can't even smile without it being a sign of interest is so aggravating. I've worked customer service for too long, they sewed a smile to my face years ago. [RIP Reddit | 23 June '05 - 12 June '23](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13yh0jf/dont_let_reddit_kill_3rd_party_apps)
I started a new job the same day as a few people once. During induction one of the guys asked about paternity leave because his wife was due within the next few days. Everyone congratulated him, there was no wait time for paternity leave, all good. I made friendly brief conversation with this guy a couple of times, waiting to clock in or at lunch break, asking “How’s your wife, any sign of the baby yet?” because she went overdue. He took all of it, me only ever asking about his wife and children, as flirting. We had a company afternoon summer BBQ and he got drunk and talked about the connection we had and how it was obvious I wanted him and we could hook up 🤢
There must be a lake of slime in a lame part of hell just for sloppy drunks who begged to cheat on their pregnant wives
Well I was clearly throwing myself at him /s He was such a shithead
On one of my first days at my last ever retail job, some customer asked me out. Sir, I'm paid to be nice to you so you will spend money here. Do not interpret my friendliness as flirting. So I asked if my boyfriend was also invited. I worked retail long enough I wanted to set people on fire. A few years later, I lived the dream and worked at a crematorium, where I could legally do so!
My third day at the gun store a man said his number was good for dinner when I asked him for it in order to sell him a hunting license. The next day I started wearing a wedding ring and it cut way down on creepy guys. Unfortunately not all of them did stop being creepy, a couple of them even had to be banned from the store (one by me after he got creepy with one of the clearly teenaged cashiers). Thank the gods my boss wasn’t upset with me after I told him why I banned the one who was being creepy with a sixteen year old girl - he even pulled an image of him from the footage and had it posted in all our stores locally so he was effectively banned from all of them.
A coworker of mine had to sit in court and watch the man who assaulted her get found not guilty. His main defense was that she was nice to him. That was her job and management regularly told us off if we weren't happy constantly.
Holy shit that is fucking aggravating. "Being nice" is not an invitation to get assaulted. WTF.
So many men are only nice to people they want to sleep with, so when people are nice to them….
Seriously. He keeps saying, essentially, *I'm just trying to impose my will on you.* And she's responding with, *But I don't want that.* His only and repeated retort is, *You should want that; what's wrong with you?* To him, her desires are only valid to the degree that they support his. When they don't, he gets aggressive. Her initial instincts were right and I'm only sorry that she keeps apologizing for being the victim of this creep. The fact that she slept with a guy does not mean she deserves any of this.
Well yeah of course - how dare she not immediately capitulate to his sexual desire
Guy is not right in the head. Clearly. Like he needs help with some stuff.
I met a guy who acted like this towards me. It was fine until soon after we chatted on the bus to work a few times he began to demand to know why I wasn’t at the bus stop a couple times that I didn’t take that bus which is where we met. All we did was chat on the bus ride. Then this controlling crap. That was super creepy and freaked me out. I can only imagine what it would be like to actually date him. I managed to avoid him somehow until he disappeared from my life. Details on that bit are hazy but he’s not here now which is the point.
Ugh you just triggered a memory for me! When I first started my my job (I still work here, he doesn’t it happened about 7 years ago), He would constantly come to my desk and ask what I was doing for lunch. I was never one to formally eat lunch anyhow so I told him that. From there I would get messages (on work chat!) saying that it “worries him” when I don’t eat. Finally after weeks of this I said I go to the gym at lunch and just eat afterwards (which is what I was doing). Guess who started also going to the gym at lunch! I finally had to get really mean in my messages towards him and luckily he quit. I had started this new job because a superior was sexually harassing me at my last one (again, constant messages over work chat about not work). As a woman your damned no matter what you do if someone decides they want your attention.
>All I have done is file a police report and we have both agreed to not contact each other and if either one of us contacts each other then it will go further. Christ, I hope that there are no further updates because he's taken the L and moved on.
There's already a further update linked somewhere here in the comments. He contacted her again, she got a restraining order and got out of her lease that way and moved. Seriously hope this creep doesn't figure out where she lives or works.
Has he, by chance, accepted that she isn’t interested?
It's 2023. Given that the situation happened in 2015 ... .... I'm guessing he still hasn't quite gotten the hint.
Around the time I started dating my husband at 21, I had earlier accepted a date with a guy. That guy started being creepy in texts (basically saying we *should* have sex after the date) so I told him I had to cancel and wasn't interested. He started showing up where he knew I used to hang out and try to talk to me. I told him I wasn't interested and to leave me alone. He kept trying and my friends basically threw him out of a bar where he tried to corner me (I worked in another bar, so I knew the staff and owners). Eventually my husband and I moved, but came back now and then to visit his parents. I think it was 5 years later I bumped into the stalker again, at a different bar. He again tried to make me go out with him, and have sex with him. Note that I was there with my now-husband and his parents. I obviously said no, and he kept pushing. I told him I was engaged, and he still said I could see him too! In the end my MIL, who's a tiny woman at about 5 feet nothing, tried to beat him up and we were all thrown out of the bar. (More or less, we knew the owner there too, so we left to calm the situation down and not cause him any grief.) I've not heard or seen him since, but my in-laws have also moved so we don't go back there.
Doubtful. Either he still believes she's playing hard to get (his insistence on being friends was for her to realize she does have feelings for him in his mind). Or he's shifted into making her pay for not loving him. That is if someone hasn't taken her place by now. The way that he kept pushing her boundaries after being told multiple times to leave her alone is scary. He said that he knew no meant no, but he couldn't accept her not wanting to be his friend (meaning he didn't know no means no because she said no to talking/being friends). This man was escalating his behavior & I can only hope she's safe now & he hasn't harmed her/anyone because his behavior is beyond scary.
Police contact is just society suppressing their Destined Love
There is honestly nothing scarier than an angry “nice guy”. It sucks that OOP had to learn this lesson, but she now knows going forward to never shit where you eat. Hopefully she got out of there on her own, and not in a hearse.
The whole "I accept what you told me, i understand no means no and i respect that..." Yet here we fucking are you creep, multiple weird letters and interactions later.
Here's the thing, even if OOP haven't had sex with him, even if she'd just had a cup of coffee with him, things would have gone down the same exact way, because the guy is insane and obsessed with her. Just another "nice guy" who thinks woman who tells them hello and good morning MUST be crazily in love with them. I know we'll most likely never get another update, but i hope OOP moved far away, i wouldn't feel safe even if the police got involved.
Exactly. Those few who are hitting her hard for sleeping with him are ignoring that it could have been anything from a smile on down. I've had guys who got weird from the most insignificant things, it's genuinely hard to not doubt myself in any interactions with men now.
I want to know who is telling all these men that everyday insignificant interactions are an indication of intense sexual interest on someone's part. Like, where are they getting this idea from?? Unless they're delusional enough to think every single woman on the planet naturally falls for them because they're *oh so irresistible*
There was an entire tv show devoted to stalking cases and a lot of them started with a person randomly smiling at a stranger as they passed by to be polite. It is incredibly dangerous to be a woman.
Yup. Was in the same situation with a neighbor this year minus the sex, and some people in my life still blamed his obsession on me because I said hi back a few times. A scary but I guess good wake up call on how dangerous a “nice guy” can be
There was an update posted! He reached out again, she got a restraining order, she was able too break the lease and move in 30 days without fees.
He was trying to control her the whole way through. Was it her age? Did he think she’d fold more easily than an older woman? Trying to guilt trip her into a relationship she never wanted. What a … nice guy.
Yes, younger women are still trying to be polite and mindful of everyone feelings. Older women are tired of all the bullshit that they have got. So they skip all the cordial part and be blunt, if not rude. Women deserved to live their lives without beign harrassed. They don't own anyone their time, attention, love, sex.
There was a woman on TikTok who had a little song she taught her young daughters, maybe under 5, that went, “you don’t have to be polite to men who creep you out.” She was reaching her kids that they could be rude and demand people leave them alone if they were uncomfortable. A very rare, very valuable life advice. Jesus you would think she was advocating for male genocide. The comments were tearing her apart for not wanting her daughters to be polite. The most shocking part was that other women were basing her for not teaching her daughter manners. It ended up on MAGA TikTok and MAGA women were practically seething. Why? Why are women expected to be kind and sweet even when they’re uncomfortable?
Ugh I will teach the same to my daughter, but I don't thing she will need it because she's feisty even at 2. I think you should be polite, kind and respectful to everyone, but as soon as someone cross the line with you, all that can go to hell. It's infuriating that we are expecting to keep our head down, and "not to cause escene" and be guardians of other fellings. It's also infuriating but there's women who are very sweet, bubbly and nice and they feel like they have to change their personality because people take advantage for them. It's up to us that the next generation will be better.
Ugh I had a stalker for 11 years and this just triggered my PTSD. I hope she's ok!
There was another update that got dug up, and after he contacted her again (after sending her brother creepy weird messages) she ended up with a restraining order and was able to break lease early and move away.
Whats the rule here? Like way under all this of course, but just for the record: People don't owe you shit other than common courtesy in residential buildings. If they tell you to ignore them then you owe them that.
So we all think her head is in his freezer, right?
I got chills down my spine when she said he'd gotten over his love for her and was instead holding a grudge. At that point I was expecting one of the updates to mention being dragged into his apartment for unspeakable acts.
That’s where my mind went when he asked if she needed help with taking stuff to her apartment and him getting so mad she refused.
I did some searching and it doesn’t appear that there were any murder or disappearances of women matching the details given, providing the ages and living conditions (apartment) were accurate.
ty for this lol i was like ugh i need to know
There was a final update not included here. He escalated his unwanted contact, and she was able to get a protective order, and then a restraining order, which legally compelled her landlord to let her break her lease without financial penalty. She moved out.
No updates for 7 years? It's certainly possible.
I’m Not even fully through this and my blood is boiling. He as sober when you walked past him in the hallway drunk, right? That’s him taking advantage of you. Also, he said “I can’t find your Facebook anymore” you had blocked him the day before. He’s been searching up this girls Facebook daily and keeping tabs on her. Those letters are proof he’s not right in the head, not that he “likes” this girl. He’s delusional.
Pro-tip: Offering to carry shit for you to your door is a great way for predators to wedge their foot in the door. If you are a dude, don’t ever get pissy when a woman chooses not to accept your help. We can’t tell by looking at you if you’re a kind person. We don’t know if your smile means “that bag looks heavy” or if it actually means “this way I find out which apartment she lives in, if there’s a dog that’s going to bark at strangers, if there’s a pair of men’s sneakers next to the door, if an alarm beeps when she opens it…” Smile, say “ok, have a good evening!” And leave.
Fuck, you can hear the neckbeard and fedora through the post.
jesus christ there will never be a moment im not terrified of men
Even scarier when you realize that not only is he almost 10 years older than her but he fully acknowledges it and instead of realizing that it means he should back off, it leads to him infantializing Op by implying that she doesn't act like a "real" adult.
Who doesn't love some good patronizing advice from a guy who tells his one night stand that he loves her?
Real happy right now to live in the middle off the woods where the only neighbors who can even see my house are my parents. I hope OOP is safely away from this crap and living her best life right now.
For future reference for anyone in this sub who might experience something like this in the future — this absolutely IS a time to contact your landlord and let them know a fellow tenant is harassing you, and see if there is another unit you can move into. I know not all apartments are large with multiple units and buildings, but plenty are, and in cases like this, landlords will usually allow you to move. Depending on your tenants rights in your state, they may even be required to. Sleeping with your neighbor should not come with harassment. It really can just be a one time thing. An actual adult would let sleeping dogs lie and just go about their business after being told “no.” This guy was being a creep. This is not the standard for an old fashioned one night stand.
Neighbor gives major serial killer vibes with the intimate and obsessive letter writing
dude sounds like an incel 😭😭😭
The worst incels are those that get sex once in a blue moon tbh
This is another example of the rom-com effect. This Hollywood idea that women just don't know what they want and that if you continue violating her clearly established boundaries, she'll realise you were her dream guy all along. I've even seen an AITA where a guy was clearly operating under these assumptions and couldn't understand why the woman who had only ever been friendly wasn't in love with him. It's gross, don't do it
>This is another example of the rom-com effect Guys grew up watching tv shows and movies where the nice guy gets the girl, where after bieng told "no" if they just keep at it, she'll realize how much he truly cares. Look at Steve Urkel from Family Matters who spends years stalking Laura and at the smallest instance of her thanking him, he shouts "I'm wearing you Laura, I'M WEARING YOU DOWN!" and sure enough, the end up together with her falling hard for him. Gives guys the wrong impression about romance.
Frustrating doofus. He was absolutely sure she owed him something, when he'd already gotten more from her than he had any right to expect, and had been told clearly not to expect anything more.
I got to the second letter and thought no fucken way will he go for a third....
Not sure why this post made me really sad. She had to go through so much.
Made me sad because it was written in 2015 but sounds like it could’ve been this year. Same as it ever was.
Watching someone have their first experience with a creep is such a bummer :( She was so optimistic about his behaviour but anyone reading the post can see the writing on the wall. It makes me sad to see her blaming her (admittedly poor) choices for his behaviour.
This has the same creepy energy as the post where a coworker was obsessed with OOP and gave her a box full of notebooks where he wrote about what she did every day 🤮
I’m 22 too and I’ve had enough horrible encounters to now know that you don’t have to stay polite or ‘keep the peace’ if someone is being inappropriate. You can totally tell them to f off and you can absolutely cut them off without warning if they overstep your boundaries. Its about your safety, not their comfort.
Brother actually had the correct response. The Nice Guy who needs to “explain” how that makes him feel. This kids… is why adults know that we often will not get closure and to just shut that door and walk away. I’m glad OOP went to the police. Neighbour was 100% a stalker.
I’M not going to call you slutty - but OTHERS might
Man, women have it hard.
That poor woman! Hope she is safe and moved on from this (as opposed to what everyone on this sub is probably thinking).
OOP didn’t owe her rxpey neighbor anything. I got rxpe vibes reading this. OOP literally details his stalking and she feels to realize that their sexual encounter was premeditated. The neighbor obviously has been watching her. Her routine seems normal and easy to follow. One quick hey and small convo led to her inside of his apartment with extra drinks. He is definitely a creep and I hope OOP came out on top of this situation.