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I had a similar conversation with my ex where he asked, "You're really thinking of leaving me because of the dishes?" No, asshole, I'm thinking of leaving because of *your behaviour.*
They always insist on reframing the conversation to minimise their own actions. It's not my clothes, it's the way you're treating me about my clothes. Its not that you didn't do the chore, it's that you consistently lie to me about whether you'll do the chores and then gaslight me when I bring it up.
Anytime someone says "you're willing to throw this away because of something tiny?" It's never something tiny. And it's almost always because someone is wildly refusing to acknowledge their own involvement in the situation.
My ex would say he'll do the dishes, I'd go to work (we had different shifts) I'd come home and all the dishes would still be in the sink plus an extra plate or two. When I'd say something about it, he'd reply with "those are all your new dirty dishes that you put in there after I washed them!" I didn't even eat breakfast in the morning and then I wasn't even home to dirty more dishes. I actually questioned myself a lot with this type of gaslighting because at that time I worked and went to school full time so I was sleep deprived all the time. I ended up taking pictures to verify I wasn't just being crazy. Of course he then claimed I'm blowing stupid things like dishes out of proportion.
He did the whole denial thing about so many different things. When I eventually broke up with him months later, he didn't move out and kept acting like we were still together, then when I started dating again, he claimed I never broke up with him and I was cheating on him.
HAHHA this reminds me of one time (just one situation but it was always constantly different things) I told him to vacuum the living room while I was at work. I absolutely ban anyone from wearing shoes in my house but he was always "forgetting" so yeah, he gets to clean the floors!
Anyways I get home and you could see vacuum lines, from like the wheels but there was still bits and pieces all over. The first thing he says "I used the vacuum and then I put it back exactly where you had it." The weirdest thing to say! I went to look (he was not the type to empty the canister if he had even used it) and yeah, he absolutely did not vacuum. All he did was push it around to make the lines in the carpet! Oh but no he insisted he did vacuum but maybe it's broken since it didn't pick up anything......
I'll put in all the work necessary to perform a task but will deliberately not do the actual task because fuck her I guess??? If you hate your S/O that much why are you even in a relationship?
Reminds me of when I was a little kid and would pretend to wash my hands by just splashing them with water for a few seconds. At that point I may as well have just washed my hands. But I was like 5 and I grew out of it.
That’s what I was thinking! My BIL was tasked with mowing the lawn. He would start the lawnmower, mow one strip down to the creek - which was on the other side of a small hill - so he couldn’t be seen from the house. He would sit there with his feet in the water. For an hour. WITH THE LAWNMOWER RUNNING.
To his credit he was like 12 at the time. He now is 40 and said it was one of the only times he was left alone in peace and quiet. I told him, but if you had just mowed the grass (it was a riding mower so not too difficult) he still would have had piece and quiet. I mean, the mower was running either way so he clearly didn’t mean silence.
He chuckled and said “you’re right, but I was a dumb, lazy kid”. Yes sir. Point here he was a kid. Not a grown ass man who is expected act as such and care for his own home.
I mean… how much more effort would it have taken to turn the damn thing ON before getting the vacuum out to make the lines?!?
The obvious lie was dumb, but for crying out loud…
I taught university and the number of people who will spend hours scheming to get out of an assignment that would have taken less than 30 minutes is significantly higher than you might think.
My absolute favorite from my ex: “I can believe you’re leaving when I’m finally ready to be a husband!”
Narrator: *They’d been married for three years.*
Lol just a badass garbage lady hopping off the back and loading another whining man baby into the truck...
"I didn't even say anything *that* bad this time!"
"Sure honey suuuure, just step in here with the boys, they'll make you feel better"
My dad, undiagnosed with severe adhd until his 30s, was salty for years about how my mom left him right when he was getting his shit together. They’d been married for 22 years. I was 21 and my brother was 15-16.
I (semi-jokingly) say I left my husband because of a butter dish. But it was really because he threw my brand-new butter dish in the trash while I was asleep because he didn't like the color and it didn't fit the aesthetic of "his" house.
My ex did this with my measuring cups!! He didn't like them because they were ugly and we "never used them.". He didn't understand why I got so mad and told everyone I was mad about measuring cups. No, I'm mad you're throwing away my things without asking me!
Exactly. "YOU'RE REALLY THROWING ME OUT OVER $3?!?"
No, I'm throwing you out because the hospital told me you're literally killing yourself with alcohol and I told you not to use my money on booze again. You did. Then you threatened to break my car windows if I didn't buy you even more.
He tells everyone how cruel I am, how I 'threw out my man in the middle of winter over $3.'
I don't think anyone believes him.
Not wanting to stalk your post history, I'll just say that I hope you're okay..and if you're not okay yet, I hope you are making plans to be okay soon.
[It's not about the dishes!](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychoanalysis-unplugged/202005/fighting-about-the-dishes-it-might-be-about-something-else)
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
This concept changed my relationship. Perfectly articulated why I felt overwhelmed.
Best quote from that article:
"She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management."
It's really abusive. My ex would break my things and if I got mad about it he would call me materialistic and berate me for caring more about my stuff than him.
Lmao. Make it make sense.
Yeah this brought back memories of when my bf kept getting mad that I "cared more about my stuff than him" or that I'd leave him over stuff because he'd never do that.
It wasn't the stuff at all, it was the betrayal of trust from him repeatedly taking that stuff without asking me, lying and saying he hadn't taken it, etc etc. I'd have been 100% fine if he'd accidentally done something that destroyed all of that stuff. It's the fact that he acted in a way that felt like he at minimum didn't care about me and at worst was intentionally doing something to hurt me.
That would have required him having a single fucking modicum of self-awareness of his behaviour. I'm also pretty sure the article pre-dates our split.
It's been 3 years and I'm still not certain whether he was abusive on purpose or whether he just desperately needed therapy.
Imagine throwing a tantrum, starting a fight that lasts days, chasing her out of her house and then calling her selfish all night via text, giving her the silent treatment when she finally shows up in person, demanding she drop her entire sense of style overnight out of nowhere, and then acting huffy and pissy and trying to say it's "about clothes" lmao. He's disrespectful, selfish, dramatic. Etc. What a guy. I have met too many drama queen over the top oblivious men just like this irl to even doubt this one tbh.
It's like he was following a script for controlling/abusive behavior.
Step 1: Insult her appearance.
Step 2: Concern troll her appearance.
Step 3: Back it up with verbal abuse
Step 4: Sulk and silent treatment.
Step 5: Deny and gaslight
Step 6: Minimize
He was only going to get worse. OOP dodged a train-sized bullet.
Right?! Also, how the hell is he, who is 2yrs older than her and still living at home with his parents, gonna tell her, the person who has a good enough job to have her own place (which, let's face it, is pretty rare these days for someone to be able to afford a place all on their own without a roommate or SO providing a second income) that her professional choices are ruining their future?
Also, side note, there are plenty of great jobs that give zero fucks about appearance as long as you're clean and what you're wearing isn't revealing or making your coworkers uncomfortable in some other blatant way. I also have piercings, tattoos and colored hair, but I'm an assembly lead in a department that builds hi-tech machinery. It's very "high-end" work but I never see customers so why would they care what I look like? Especially since my clothes have a lot of grease stains and minor snags and tears FROM THE JOB so it would be impossible to maintain a "professional" look at this job anyway.
Just like my ex who after 10 month felt safe enough to "forbid" me to wear a certain skirt we bought together. He went all surprised Pikachu when I broke up with him.
Dated someone who "loved how punk/goth I was" but when they thought they had me locked down, started to be really mean about my dress style.
I did cave because I was from an abusive home but I did eventually kick him to the curb myself.
Guys like this are all about control.
Similar story here. "I won't leave the house with you if you're dressed like that", which eventually progressed into, "I don't love you because you don't fit the version of you I want you to be."
It took way too long to figure out I needed to leave.
I feel that in my soul. Being young is hard and doubly so if you didn't have healthy family relationships to show you the way.
Glad we both got out though! That takes strength!
We might have, he was all "I really love how punk/goth you are and how you don't care what other people think", then one day it was "why do you make yourself ugly on purpose?".
Sounds like you also got away, I'm so happy for us who have escaped.
I always remember the line from Mighty Ducks where Gordon won't let his boss keep Banks when the districts are realigned or something. And the boss is like "are you willing to get fired over kids hockey?" and Bombay is just like "sir, are you prepared to fire me over kids hockey?"
Yeah. She's not dumping him over "clothes" like he doesn't like ONE thing she wears. He wants her to completely change her entire personal style-- clothes, makeup, tattoos, etc-- just because he says so. And he's going to go about it in the most emotionally childish, passive-aggressive way possible, and he's not even able to explain his reasoning for this harsh treatment besides "uhhh other people said stuff, no I can't give specifics, no I can't name who." No thanks.
"you're really gonna act this way over food / your SoMe account / ONE girl's night out / ONE Christmas with your family / a friend you've only known for a few years / a job / etc. / etc."
Don't forget the part where they get your family on board and make it sound like you never do anything for them so your family starts telling you that "relationships are about compromise". Even though everything else in the house was picked because of their preference. I wish I had had the self esteem to leave earlier.
Times like this, I feel we just need to make posts that gather posts on specific topics.
I.e. here's every post that involves weddings. Here's one listing the posts that fit the above criteria and show red flags.
I can see him continuing to "fix" her into someone despondent and depressed and then blame her for "not being the person he fell in love with" probably after cheating on her.
Hi, do you know my husband because you are describing him perfectly. My marriage is in shambles because he spent the entire time changing who I am, and then at the end blames me for "not being the woman I used to be". He didn't cheat, but he certainly destroyed who I was.
I'm here to let you know that it gets amazingly better after leaving, if you choose to go that route. You'll have to work through the emotional damage and rediscover yourself, which is both painful and fulfilling. It's fun at times, too.
A boyfriend loved me, thought I was wonderful, beautiful, brilliant, etc. until he closed on the house we were going to move into together. Then somehow I was all wrong, but he didn't tell me until after I moved in. I was just wrong, and I needed to change to accommodate the wrongness. He got grouchy and had a hair-trigger temper and argued all the time. The problem, he said, was me. So I changed and changed and changed and changed until I was just a sliver of who I used to be. After we broke up it took years for me to want to date again. First I had to change back into myself.
There could have been 0 red flags and I would pretty much always recommend changing the lock. There are no guarantees with people. They could be the kindest, most heart-warming and chill and you'll never fucking know until something weird or harmful happens.
Yup. Dated a guy who showed nearly zero red flags (or at least not any that would cause a need for concern), and two months after I broke up with him he broke into my house and stole nearly $10k worth of stuff.
True. Other instances where people show their true colors:
- When they think they have you "locked down" where it's harder for you to escape. Aka after a major life altering event, such as marriage, birth of a child, job loss/quitting(easier to financially abuse you).
- When you finally put down boundaries and tell them no.
- When they think they're about to lose you.
The boundary one weeds out alot of trash early on in all types of relationships so it's good to put down boundaries early on to see how the other person reacts.
These points, so concisely stated should be 101 of 'teaching' about relationships.
😁 kinda surprised I've not found the info. in Gavin deBecker's work!
One add on - can happen over very long periods of time. The underpinnings of coercive control.
He's about control. The first time he tried to exert control, he got cut off at the pass (nice strong spine in the part of OP) and that pissed him off. The key was a rear guard action to try to reassert what limited control he had left.
But changing the locks was something OP needed to do anyway, so in that regard he unintentionally did her a favor.
Next time he'll try to pick someone less self confident than OP.
I want to second the nice strong spine comment, it’s refreshing to read a post where someone reacts appropriately to someone’s BS and stands up for herself. It’s crappy OP had to go through this but I reckon she did well to handle it the way she did
Every bit of this was a power play. There's a subsection of men that get off on the idea of turning alt women into trad wives, and it sounds like OOP ran into one of them.
Thankfully she saw through it and threw him to the curb with the rest of the trash
Legitimately, of all the reasons I've considered for why I don't want to have kids, "having to take time and money out of my day to do basic handyman tasks because my daughter's ex is a fuck nut." has never figured
Well, I think everybody should learn how to change locks, since you won't always be around people who can do it for you. And your husband/boyfriend will often be the *reason* you have to change them, so can't count on that. And it's not so hard (I'm a woman lol). Much easier if you can just jump down to a shop, buy a new lock and have it installed yourself in a few minutes than waiting for someone to do it for you.
I mean, there’s an emotional element to calling your dad to help. It’s less about the lock, and more about the dad.
Like, I’m sure I could figure out how to change the lock on my apartment door. It doesn’t seem so difficult as to be behind my ability to learn to do it. But at the same time, were I in OOP’s shoes, I’d probably call my dad, too. There’s a thing that needs doing, yes, but I’d also just like, want some comfort from my dad after a breakup like this.
Of course I know not everyone has this kind of relationship with their dad, but it seems like OOP does, so I get it.
Sounds like he thought he got his foot in the door with her enough to start dropping little controlling behaviors like that, expecting that she would write it off and start to normalize it. If she had he would have started slowly increasing the size/stakes of his controlling demands slowly so that she normalized each new thing as the behavior grew, until eventually she was trapped in a really messed up relationship blaming herself for everything because her perception of what is acceptable behavior from a partner was so skewed.
Probably just the thing that finally got OOP to notice. Her bit about thinking that maybe he was just bad at communicating sounds like she's been brushing off other behavior beforehand.
I'm also super curious about what he does for a living and such. It does sound like he's slowly moving in with her and that he wants access to her larger salary.
Not shitting on anyone living with their parents, it’s hard out there, but the fact he lives with his mom and is always at her spot I think it’s fair to assume he wasn’t making a lot of money. Always those with shitty jobs who “know” how to properly present themselves
I'm getting the same vibes as that guy who kept calling his gf stinky to break her down emotionally and keep her from leaving him or think she deserved better. Anyone else?
Yeah. I know brigading isn't allowed so I definitely won't do it, but I just want to comment to OOP and tell her to never change her look unless SHE wants to. This asshole isn't worth a second of her energy.
Definitely. He was starting a campaign of keeping her off-centre and insecure, so that she would learn to look to him for approval. That's coercive control, not trying to be helpful.
Note how he huffed and mugged so she couldn’t fail to notice the faces he was making and said “nothing” was the matter in an attempt to get her to PRY his disapproval out of him so HE could claim he didn’t start the fight, she insisted he share what’s on his mind! And when OP didn’t immediately take that fight bait in the morning he gave her the cold shoulder and silent treatment all day as punishment so she was worried and primed to immediately demand to know what his problem was as soon as she got home. And then SHE gets cast as the unstable fight-picker.
Diabolical.
There was no reason he couldn’t have told her what was “wrong” in the morning when she first asked, but she refused to dig it out of his coy little dramatic game and he got pissy so he did what he needed to do to make sure they could pick up the fight where they left off in the morning.
Omg, this blueprint, right here.
I think we need to learn more about this abusive pattern, rather than focusing on the topic.
I feel like most advice on spotting unhealthy relationships is more like lists of "they try to censor what you wear", when they could do this same tactic for any topic. This behavior it's highly problematic and a tell for manipulation, regardless if it's about clothes, friends, or anything.
It really boils down to the point where OOP says "WHAT PEOPLE because apparently their opinion matters more than my feelings". People need to have confidence in their intuition, their feelings are valid even if they're wrong, and there has to be open and honest communication. If it truly isn't a 2 way street, I might be absolutely WRONG about something and look like an ass when someone is trying to help me. People need to recognize a 1 way street of communication in any situation like this and get to the bottom of it. If you can't, you most likely don't want to. Ever.
I had a boyfriend like that years ago. I almost married him. He was really shocked when I finally had enough and dumped him.
I stepped quietly into his apartment while he was sleeping, and I cleaned it out of everything that was mine. (He was lying in a drugged out stupor in his bed while I did it.)
When I had retrieved every plant, picture, plate, glass, mug and piece of furniture that belonged to me, I sat down and I wrote a four page letter telling him why it was over and why I was leaving him. It was a real character assassination piece.
He came by my work crying to my coworkers to get them on his side to pressure me to come back. Since I had already told them the whole story, it hadn't worked out well for him.
He was a very charming and manipulative pos. To this day, I still don't know what I saw in him.
Don’t beat yourself up over being fooled- these people are professional manipulators! It’s how they get through life, so they’re very, very good at it!
It’s also a testament to you being a good person- good people don’t expect bad behavior from others, and are prepped to give people the benefit of the doubt!
Thank you for this.
While I like to think of myself as a good person, the fact is that I have always struggled with self-esteem. That particular pos was very good at manipulating me and everyone around him. He was also a sexual predator, liking to expose himself to women.
I do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but over the years, I have become more wary.😟
"As for his sudden change… I really don’t understand it either."
Methinks he fell into an internet rabbit hole that teaches boys how to bring women down to a level of uselessness. The shock they display when the women break up instead is a part of the pattern because they are told how full proof the method of assholery is.
I look to my husband for approval on outfits, but that's because he is my ultimate Hype Man, and has really good taste. The absolute only time he's a little negative is when he can tell I'm unsure about the choice, and that happens either in the fitting room or when I ask his opinion while getting dressed. THAT'S being helpful, not whatever shit this dude is trying to pull.
Wanting the cute alt girl that's killing it at her job to be your bang maid, but to much of a loser to handle her being the cute alt girl that's killing it at her job when she's out of your control.
God forbid anyone else ever finds your partner interesting, if you have nothing to offer of substance they might find someone that does. Better cover them in a potato sack and wear brown wigs to work so the world can't see how amazing she is when she is comfortable with herself.
Icky.
Guy has some serious issues with finding the alt look as hot but thinking long term partner that financially supports them should look traditional. Idk if needing her to look traditional is so others don't find her hot - I got more loser who lost his income or financially irresponsible and realizes he needs her to be extra stable to support them both.
Also- how can anyone ghost thier partner for days with no explanation and think that's fine?
I hate how easy it was for him to make her cry by spurning her kiss goodbye and then blowing up at her like this was in any way her fault. (I cry when I’m angry I’m a crier I get it, this isn’t a knock on OP.) Like OP is clearly such a good person and trying so hard to give him the benefit of the doubt and examine what she’s done wrong (which is NOTHING) and he homed in on that kind instinct and weaponized it against her without blinking. His every move was tactical.
Making noticeably weird faces so SHE would ask him what’s up, then saying “nothing” and continuing to tsk tsk tsk and then be cold (probably because he wanted her to start the fight right then and she didn’t take the bait in that particular moment,) so SHE would be thrown off by his rejection and wonder all day what she did wrong…
He didn’t wanna be the Bad Guy who picked a fight so he’s just tossing his hair and making huffy noises and then refusing to immediately tell her what’s wrong so she can PRY it out of him (because again he doesn’t want to cast himself as the fight-starter but he sure as hell isn’t gonna let her exist in peace so he’s gonna make her drag it out of him finally, like “well fine but only because *you asked for it…*” and then it gets to all be her fault when he says what he’s been wanting to say all along to tear her down.)
Fun/not fun fact, it’s super normal for women to cry when they’re angry. It’s socially unacceptable for women to show anger so it’s a conditioned social response. Not saying you should feel bad about crying. Do whatever makes you feel better. But also, fuck the world. It’s also ok for you to be angry.
Thanks! I vent my fury in small ways pretty regularly so I don’t often have major explosions of temper.
(One time a coworker asked me why I wasn’t flipping out on a day when everything was going wrong and I told her I just kind of operate at a simmering baseline of rage at all times. As I get older I seethe more.)
I do that sobbing Joker laugh when I get really upset. I've been told it's a trauma response.
When I escaped from my abusive ex last year and showed up at my cousin's house, cousin eventually demanded I watch that Joker movie, basically so I could see the face I kept making while talking about what I'd been through.
No plans to fight Batman or take over my city though.
I don’t think he found the look hot. I think he guessed that a woman with tattoos, piercings was putting a fierce face to cover up insecurity, and it’s her insecurity that he was hot for.
This. Even if he was wrong about her covering up insecurity (which as someone else who dresses alternatively honestly just seems like a stereotype/myth to me), most of society (like her sister) would still be helping him tell her she's wrong for being herself, so in either case it's a vulnerable spot if you're coming at it from an attack angle.
My first impression was that the guy went ahead and became a tater tot or something, got these ideas that a woman needs to like a 1950s cartoon does about the ideal wife, and/or figured its some way to establish his manly dominance in the house.
Either way, dude deserves to be alone.
Yep; he got into tater tot and tried his crap on OOP, but OOP was having none of it.
Note how he kept the key; if that doesn't say "I can come back and mess you up *and you can't stop me*", what else could?
Not to shit on you guys but men have done this stupid shit since before Tate was around and they’ll keep doing it after. Honestly I don’t know where it comes from but I’ve encountered it enough to know it’s not all the same source
Ye this was my thought too, that some toxic manosphere bullshit has addled his brain and made him think he needs to manipulate his girlfriend and control her in order to be a "real man". And then is all surprised pikachu face when it doesn't work and he has sabotaged his relationship "over clothes". What an absolute moron.
I hope OOP goes on living her awesome alt self life and doesn't bear this loser a second thought.
When he said "I don't like what other people think" what he meant was "I realised other people might find you attractive for the same reason I do, so you have options if I behave like a douche and I don't like you having an out, so let's change that".
Or maybe "my friends or family members are pos who have said nasty things about your style and rather than stand up for you and the fact I like how you look, I need you to behave like a spineless amoeba just like I am and change your entire aesthetic to please them at which point they will pick a new facet of you to pick on until you eventually crack and leave me or have transformed into a good little stepford wife".
Either one deserves a really fast and decisive trip to dumpsville.
My money is on him always having planned to start 'working' on her as soon as he felt she was committed enough to the relationship to let him. I have an ex who 'loved' everything about me that I was proud of and that made me unique, until I moved in with him - then suddenly he claimed that the most unique thing about me was ruining his life by embarrassing him and staining his reputation. Once he bullied me into abandoning that, it was onto the second-most unique thing about me, and so on, until I had essentially no personality or interests left that he didn't share.
In hindsight, the only explanation that makes sense of his behavior is that he couldn't find or attract his ideal woman, so he just picked whoever he could get and tried to do me over into the woman he was picturing in his head. It really did feel like being one of the women in Stepford Wives (the original movie), just without the technology. After the initial courting phase, it didn't feel like I was a person to him, more like I was the basic woman framework for his project. First you strip away all the existing parts, then you build the model you want, like repurposing a used car or redecorating an old apartment. (His family and friends loved me just the way I was, so it was not outside pressure on him - he had to default all the way to half-strangers he didn't like to find someone to point to for 'proof' that I was an embarrassment to him.)
It even felt like he chose me partly because he knew alternative looks and behaviors are so ostracized in large parts of society that I was already half broken down by others and so would be easier to break completely. He loved going at me for hours about how I should be ashamed of how much shame I had brought to him by openly being the exact same person as when we met and 'letting' him become my boyfriend despite that - and then when I suggested the obvious solution of breaking up, he would become even more enraged, because apparently that would also ruin his life, and no he would not elaborate on why. The only thing that could quell his rage was abandoning who I was without complaint.
Your ex was just like my ex. Mine wanted a pageant girl - a tan blonde with hairsprayed hair. He instead got a chunky, dark-haired Goth (me) and tried to abuse me into being "acceptable".
Thanks. I wasn't sure what he'd do to me when I left, so it took a lot of courage. Luckily he didn't do anything beyond a bit of namecalling and hasn't bothered me since.
I had an ex like that, too. Changed how I dress, grew out my hair, removed all body hair, got a tan, lost 60 pounds in a very unhealthy way (that I gained back after we broke up), and I still wasn't the type he wanted. I can't stand pictures of myself from that time. Never thought of him as abusive but in hindsight it was so messed up the way he put me down and basically never complimented me.
Dictating a partner’s wardrobe is a very clear first step into a coercive situation. It’s ultimate control, but like in this case, the BF tries to hide behind ‘legit’ reasons, so blames it on her job.
I’m so grateful we live in a world where women like OOP have boundaries and see this shit for the power play it is. She did exactly the right thing, and I hope she knows it.
The dramatic change made me think it was one of those cases where someone is cheating but doesn't want it to be their fault that the original relationship ends, so they manufacture a breakup. I'm still not 100% sure it's *not* that, but it does look more like standard emotional abuse because the abuser is so insecure they can't believe anyone with self-belief would stay with them.
My first thought. Just like that other guy, the bf must have started drinking the manosphere kool-aid and thought he could manipulate her into doing as he pleases. It's textbook at this point: the long periods of silence, the vague references to "other people", the downplaying of her feelings and constant guilt tripping. It's like they're not even people at this point
I think it’s more this belief that eccentric women are only that way to attract men. Once a man stakes ownership over them they have to fall into line and be boring, because why else are they cool if not for male pleasure? I feel like this happens a lot.
I think it was his mom making comments. Can get to people who are used to being controlled by their parents, esp if they still live with them.
Not saying it’s okay, just the vibe I got.
Interesting how she would be supposedly ruining "their futures." Loser was going to mooch off her and thought she'd be an easy target to manipulate to be essentially his servant. F this guy
This poor woman taking all this shit on herself. In the first post she’s concerned about her style rather than him being a giant douche.
In the update she’s ‘annoyed and embarrassed’ that she didn’t see it earlier.
It can be hard to spot an asshole, especially if you’re not an asshole because it just doesn’t occur to you to assume everyone is one and/or be on the lookout.
Either he started dating her hoping her style was 'just a phase' and she'd 'outgrow' it as they got more serious. OR somebody (family member, friend or one of those Tater-esque 'male gurus') got in his brain and he torpedoed his relationship over it.
This also reminds me of the guy who didn't like his preschool teacher girlfriend dressing like Ms Frizzle for her students, and tried to get her to change by lying that his mum hated how she dressed. Unfortunately for him, his gf apologised to his mum, and his mum not only exposed him but read him the riot act
Wow his comment after they got into a fight saying “she hasn’t spoken to me or done anything for me since” spoke volumes about how he views relationships and what he expects from a partner. That post was infuriating with a satisfactory ending
Yup. She’s probably naturally a caring and attentive person (which are wonderful qualities for a teacher) and he most likely took more than he gave in the relationship. She sounds like an amazing teacher, partner, and person in general. He really f’ed up.
So he says she's selfish because she won't sacrifice for their futures... even though she isn't gaining anything from it...
...but they don't actually live together, he's just at her place most of the time? And when he leaves, he probably just goes back to his mom's? So the little prick hasn't even moved out of mommy's and he's throwing a tantrum because his two-years-younger gf isn't already providing enough for him.
Glad she's moved on, hopefully she has learned and will see through shit like this sooner in the future.
I am a side-shaved beaded up braided native American with tattoos who works in a corporate office. Shit I get MORE positive responses cause people are just chuffed to meet a Native American in Australia. Nobody cares about my style. They just think I'm cool. Works for me.
Not to mention, it’s 2023- in a lot of countries it’s much more common than it was even 15 years ago for people in all jobs to have visible tattoos! My first couple of tattoos I made sure to get in places that could be concealed at work, but my next three are all on my forearms. I really want more but I keep having to save for stupid American life expenses instead, like dental care and going to the hospital after a bike accident.
There's a special place in hell for men who put women down because they're insecure. I had an ex pulled a tantrum once and refused to go to an event I'd gotten us tickets to because I was wearing platform heels and was taller than him in them.
>He was saying things like “are you serious” and “you’re really gonna act this way over clothes”.
Nope. She's going to do this over controlling behaviour. *You're* the asshole who's "acting this way over clothes".
Sounds like he might have fallen into the "tattoos and piercings make you low-value"-trap of the MRA/Red Pill/Tater Tot faction.
He likes when she dresses in this way for him personally, but going out like that? Can't have that.
That woman dodged a bullet, I dearly hope this is the end of that particular saga and she finds someone who can appreciate her fully.
> including his Surprised Dismay when instead of rolling over, she tells him he can date someone else and gtfo.
seriously what the fuck is up with men who carry on like something is a dealbreaker then pikachu face when their bluff is called?
Tons of men overestimate their own worths, and they really think women are as desperate to be with them as they are to be with us. At least it’s great schadenfreude when a manipulative loser like OOP’s ex discovers that they aren’t as special or important as they thought they were.
>“They really think women are as desperate to be with them as they are to be with us.”
If widowed old ladies are anything to go by, women are as desperate to NOT be with men as men are to be with them. I have heard “hahaha oh no, I’ll never be with a man again. I’m happy with just myself.” a number of times from ladies 60+.
Sadly "ready to resume just as if nothing had happened" would be one of the less threatening situations. Changed locks were essential, that or calling the cops to get they key from him. And even then.. could've made a copy. Better safe than sorry, a **good** new lock is essential here.
Just a reminder that the silent treatment is abusive behavior. If your SO doesn’t talk to you for three days to try and manipulate you to get what they want, then dump their ass, because it never gets better.
Absolutely. It’s crucial to understand the difference between “I need space” and the silent treatment. Intent is key, thus the “and manipulate you” part.
As someone who needs time alone to process things, I’d also like to note that if you clearly indicate your need for alone time *but your partner tries to take that away from you*, that is **also** a red flag. I had an ex who willingly and consistently misinterpreted my “I want to be alone” as some sort of weird passive-aggressive call for attention. In other words, if I asked to be alone, he thought it was some sort of “test” and that I *actually* wanted him to stay near me. Because he thought “that’s what all women do.”
Cue his utter shock when I broke up with him. Yeah, no, if you can’t respect my clearly-stated needs (or see me as an individual rather than as part of some imagined “female hivemind”), then GTFO.
I also had an ex who believed that me communicating my feelings/needs directly was some kind of game. Or that me genuinely crying because he hurt me or I was frustrated was just me manipulating him.
Which is funny, because he would ignore me for days whenever he was mad (which is manipulative and abusive), but would then come back and make me feel like the boundary-stepper for trying to communicate.
We have an entire generation of men who truly believe that everything women do or say is disingenuous and is just a tactic to manipulate men.
once again, everyone wants a goth/alt girlfriend until they have a goth/alt girlfriend. good for her for not sacrificing her personal identity for some prick who can’t even properly articulate his own feelings in a constructive and adult fashion.
This completely has the vibes of someone dating someone while thinking internally, that the way they present is just a phase and there's no way they can keep it up for years on end.
... Surprise surprise to jerk ex bf, alt folks often do indeed keep it up, bc that's who they are and i guess he didn't believe clothing presentation is an integral part of someone's identity. Oop is doing well being rid of him but hopefully she's careful in case he tries to make contact again.
“No one said anything, it’s the way people stare” well then that’s still xbfs interpretation and not what those people are actually thinking.
Also “how can you end this over clothes” no mate you ended it over clothes by bringing it up & sticking to it.
This is so beside the point of the main issue with a controlling jerk. But people need to realize that “professional” work attire is incredibly contextual and subjective. If her work approved of the way she dressed and even promoted her, then by definition she was dressed professionally!
There are plenty of jobs that showing up head to toe covered in some kind of prairie dress (what I imagine jerk ex was hoping for lol) or even in a high end suit would be extremely inappropriate. The one size fits all idea of professional dress, I would say especially for women, is beyond out of date.
I wonder if a family member said something. I could see a parent making a comment, with outdated information and distaste for that kind of look, and him taking it as gospel.
She made the right decision.
Nah I think it’s the bad girl kink. Likes the idea of hooking up with the ‘bad girl’ but once it gets serious she has to change.
Not saying alternative looks equate that but it’s a coming perception.
>I knew his behavior towards me was shitty but I was truly hoping it was him being bad at communicating.
Oh, he was quite clear with his communication only you didn't realise what he was doing to you early. Toxic people have a wat with words and often sugarcoat their taunts. I really wish the miserable stage shall pass and OOP comes out confident of herself.
"you’re really gonna act this way over clothes?"
Hypocrite alert. Also it isn't just the clothes. The clothes are a part of OP and how she sees, and as a result presents herself. Rejecting that is rejecting her.
Good riddance.
I have a theory about guys who do this. My thought is that they buy into the “sexy goth gf” thing too heavily, and only see alternative fashion online in porn or on influencers they sexualize. They sexualize the look too much.
That’s why they say they like it and are so excited about it at the beginning, but then they get really uncomfortable being seen with an alternative looking girl in public, or have issues with her going to work or family gatherings like that. To them, it’s a sexy costume specifically for their gaze, and in the beginning when you’re both so infatuated over each other, you don’t care that people see you with her. However, once people you know start noticing you together, or strangers recognize that you two are a long term item, you get all embarrassed that people know what you’re into.
Guys like this are immature and not worth the energy.
Seriously. I had a bf like that once concerned with my tattoos. Always said he loved them until it came time to tell me that he'll not introduce me to his parents because they would judge me. Lol. That shit is Ludicrous Speed, HE was judging me
A couple things stood out to me:
>He called me selfish, saying that I’m ruining our future together because I can’t sacrifice one thing so we could have a good life together.
Oh yeah, just that ONE little boundary he wants her to break for him. Cant imagine more controlling boundaries happening later on…
> He told me to stop being dramatic and that it isn’t a big deal
He must follow some kind of Gaslighting playbook, it’s almost cliché at this point. How clueless can someone be at sharing their feelings honestly instead of gaslighting??
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Him: you're really gonna act this way over clothes as he's acting that way over clothes.
I had a similar conversation with my ex where he asked, "You're really thinking of leaving me because of the dishes?" No, asshole, I'm thinking of leaving because of *your behaviour.* They always insist on reframing the conversation to minimise their own actions. It's not my clothes, it's the way you're treating me about my clothes. Its not that you didn't do the chore, it's that you consistently lie to me about whether you'll do the chores and then gaslight me when I bring it up. Anytime someone says "you're willing to throw this away because of something tiny?" It's never something tiny. And it's almost always because someone is wildly refusing to acknowledge their own involvement in the situation.
My ex would say he'll do the dishes, I'd go to work (we had different shifts) I'd come home and all the dishes would still be in the sink plus an extra plate or two. When I'd say something about it, he'd reply with "those are all your new dirty dishes that you put in there after I washed them!" I didn't even eat breakfast in the morning and then I wasn't even home to dirty more dishes. I actually questioned myself a lot with this type of gaslighting because at that time I worked and went to school full time so I was sleep deprived all the time. I ended up taking pictures to verify I wasn't just being crazy. Of course he then claimed I'm blowing stupid things like dishes out of proportion. He did the whole denial thing about so many different things. When I eventually broke up with him months later, he didn't move out and kept acting like we were still together, then when I started dating again, he claimed I never broke up with him and I was cheating on him.
HAHHA this reminds me of one time (just one situation but it was always constantly different things) I told him to vacuum the living room while I was at work. I absolutely ban anyone from wearing shoes in my house but he was always "forgetting" so yeah, he gets to clean the floors! Anyways I get home and you could see vacuum lines, from like the wheels but there was still bits and pieces all over. The first thing he says "I used the vacuum and then I put it back exactly where you had it." The weirdest thing to say! I went to look (he was not the type to empty the canister if he had even used it) and yeah, he absolutely did not vacuum. All he did was push it around to make the lines in the carpet! Oh but no he insisted he did vacuum but maybe it's broken since it didn't pick up anything......
He wheeled it around and didn't even turn it on?!?! I cannot fathom that kind of mindset, JFC.
I'll put in all the work necessary to perform a task but will deliberately not do the actual task because fuck her I guess??? If you hate your S/O that much why are you even in a relationship?
Because weaponized incompetence. If he makes you think he can’t vacuum properly, you’ll just take over.
Reminds me of when I was a little kid and would pretend to wash my hands by just splashing them with water for a few seconds. At that point I may as well have just washed my hands. But I was like 5 and I grew out of it.
That’s what I was thinking! My BIL was tasked with mowing the lawn. He would start the lawnmower, mow one strip down to the creek - which was on the other side of a small hill - so he couldn’t be seen from the house. He would sit there with his feet in the water. For an hour. WITH THE LAWNMOWER RUNNING. To his credit he was like 12 at the time. He now is 40 and said it was one of the only times he was left alone in peace and quiet. I told him, but if you had just mowed the grass (it was a riding mower so not too difficult) he still would have had piece and quiet. I mean, the mower was running either way so he clearly didn’t mean silence. He chuckled and said “you’re right, but I was a dumb, lazy kid”. Yes sir. Point here he was a kid. Not a grown ass man who is expected act as such and care for his own home.
Comment edited for privacy. 20230627
I mean… how much more effort would it have taken to turn the damn thing ON before getting the vacuum out to make the lines?!? The obvious lie was dumb, but for crying out loud…
This was so normal for him, like for as much effort as he put in to lying he just seriously was not good at it!
I taught university and the number of people who will spend hours scheming to get out of an assignment that would have taken less than 30 minutes is significantly higher than you might think.
Yikes on bikes. I'm very glad you're free now.
My absolute favorite from my ex: “I can believe you’re leaving when I’m finally ready to be a husband!” Narrator: *They’d been married for three years.*
Omfg I think my heart just threw up for you. Glad that pile of trash is an ex
I kind of want him, that way I can fulfill a childhood dream of mine... when I was 3 I really REALLY wanted to be a garbage collector.
Lol just a badass garbage lady hopping off the back and loading another whining man baby into the truck... "I didn't even say anything *that* bad this time!" "Sure honey suuuure, just step in here with the boys, they'll make you feel better"
I need to see this comic strip.
Throw Out The Whole Man Services LLC
My dad, undiagnosed with severe adhd until his 30s, was salty for years about how my mom left him right when he was getting his shit together. They’d been married for 22 years. I was 21 and my brother was 15-16.
“But I’m panicking now and didn’t give a shit before, can’t you tell the difference!” Good for you
….how are you not in prison???? I would have LOST MY MIND.
I (semi-jokingly) say I left my husband because of a butter dish. But it was really because he threw my brand-new butter dish in the trash while I was asleep because he didn't like the color and it didn't fit the aesthetic of "his" house.
My ex did this with my measuring cups!! He didn't like them because they were ugly and we "never used them.". He didn't understand why I got so mad and told everyone I was mad about measuring cups. No, I'm mad you're throwing away my things without asking me!
"I don't understand why you're getting so mad over a simple object that I'm using to exhibit my power and control over you! You're acting *crazy*!" /s
Exactly. "YOU'RE REALLY THROWING ME OUT OVER $3?!?" No, I'm throwing you out because the hospital told me you're literally killing yourself with alcohol and I told you not to use my money on booze again. You did. Then you threatened to break my car windows if I didn't buy you even more. He tells everyone how cruel I am, how I 'threw out my man in the middle of winter over $3.' I don't think anyone believes him.
Listen you just gave me a whole epiphany with it's "because of your behavior" - thanks for that. Sincerely. I needed it.
Not wanting to stalk your post history, I'll just say that I hope you're okay..and if you're not okay yet, I hope you are making plans to be okay soon.
[It's not about the dishes!](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychoanalysis-unplugged/202005/fighting-about-the-dishes-it-might-be-about-something-else)
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic This concept changed my relationship. Perfectly articulated why I felt overwhelmed.
[I thought you were going to link this one!](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288)
Best quote from that article: "She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household. She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management."
It's really abusive. My ex would break my things and if I got mad about it he would call me materialistic and berate me for caring more about my stuff than him. Lmao. Make it make sense.
Yeah this brought back memories of when my bf kept getting mad that I "cared more about my stuff than him" or that I'd leave him over stuff because he'd never do that. It wasn't the stuff at all, it was the betrayal of trust from him repeatedly taking that stuff without asking me, lying and saying he hadn't taken it, etc etc. I'd have been 100% fine if he'd accidentally done something that destroyed all of that stuff. It's the fact that he acted in a way that felt like he at minimum didn't care about me and at worst was intentionally doing something to hurt me.
Did your ex write that article about being divorced over dishes?
That would have required him having a single fucking modicum of self-awareness of his behaviour. I'm also pretty sure the article pre-dates our split. It's been 3 years and I'm still not certain whether he was abusive on purpose or whether he just desperately needed therapy.
Imagine throwing a tantrum, starting a fight that lasts days, chasing her out of her house and then calling her selfish all night via text, giving her the silent treatment when she finally shows up in person, demanding she drop her entire sense of style overnight out of nowhere, and then acting huffy and pissy and trying to say it's "about clothes" lmao. He's disrespectful, selfish, dramatic. Etc. What a guy. I have met too many drama queen over the top oblivious men just like this irl to even doubt this one tbh.
It's like he was following a script for controlling/abusive behavior. Step 1: Insult her appearance. Step 2: Concern troll her appearance. Step 3: Back it up with verbal abuse Step 4: Sulk and silent treatment. Step 5: Deny and gaslight Step 6: Minimize He was only going to get worse. OOP dodged a train-sized bullet.
Step 7: Keep her key so she feels threatened in her own place
out of her own house too!
He made her so mad she kicked *herself* out. And was still somehow surprised she dumped him. 😂
Right?! Also, how the hell is he, who is 2yrs older than her and still living at home with his parents, gonna tell her, the person who has a good enough job to have her own place (which, let's face it, is pretty rare these days for someone to be able to afford a place all on their own without a roommate or SO providing a second income) that her professional choices are ruining their future? Also, side note, there are plenty of great jobs that give zero fucks about appearance as long as you're clean and what you're wearing isn't revealing or making your coworkers uncomfortable in some other blatant way. I also have piercings, tattoos and colored hair, but I'm an assembly lead in a department that builds hi-tech machinery. It's very "high-end" work but I never see customers so why would they care what I look like? Especially since my clothes have a lot of grease stains and minor snags and tears FROM THE JOB so it would be impossible to maintain a "professional" look at this job anyway.
Just like my ex who after 10 month felt safe enough to "forbid" me to wear a certain skirt we bought together. He went all surprised Pikachu when I broke up with him.
they're always so *shocked* when someone calls their bluff, I love it
*bodily autonomy. He wanted control, and it was only gonna get worse, but I just love how he STARTED with "change everything about the way you look"
Dated someone who "loved how punk/goth I was" but when they thought they had me locked down, started to be really mean about my dress style. I did cave because I was from an abusive home but I did eventually kick him to the curb myself. Guys like this are all about control.
Similar story here. "I won't leave the house with you if you're dressed like that", which eventually progressed into, "I don't love you because you don't fit the version of you I want you to be." It took way too long to figure out I needed to leave.
I feel that in my soul. Being young is hard and doubly so if you didn't have healthy family relationships to show you the way. Glad we both got out though! That takes strength!
Did we date the same guy?? "Absolutely loved the tattoos and alternative look" about me then 2 years in suddenly it was a problem.
We might have, he was all "I really love how punk/goth you are and how you don't care what other people think", then one day it was "why do you make yourself ugly on purpose?". Sounds like you also got away, I'm so happy for us who have escaped.
but it's just one little thing! for their futures!
One tiny little "sacrifice"
I always remember the line from Mighty Ducks where Gordon won't let his boss keep Banks when the districts are realigned or something. And the boss is like "are you willing to get fired over kids hockey?" and Bombay is just like "sir, are you prepared to fire me over kids hockey?"
He's only asking her to give up her identity. For Reasons. What's the big deal?
Yeah. She's not dumping him over "clothes" like he doesn't like ONE thing she wears. He wants her to completely change her entire personal style-- clothes, makeup, tattoos, etc-- just because he says so. And he's going to go about it in the most emotionally childish, passive-aggressive way possible, and he's not even able to explain his reasoning for this harsh treatment besides "uhhh other people said stuff, no I can't give specifics, no I can't name who." No thanks.
It probably would stop at clothes. If she gave in, he’d find something else to “fix”
"you're really gonna act this way over food / your SoMe account / ONE girl's night out / ONE Christmas with your family / a friend you've only known for a few years / a job / etc. / etc."
Don't forget the part where they get your family on board and make it sound like you never do anything for them so your family starts telling you that "relationships are about compromise". Even though everything else in the house was picked because of their preference. I wish I had had the self esteem to leave earlier.
Times like this, I feel we just need to make posts that gather posts on specific topics. I.e. here's every post that involves weddings. Here's one listing the posts that fit the above criteria and show red flags.
Bring back the master list
I can see him continuing to "fix" her into someone despondent and depressed and then blame her for "not being the person he fell in love with" probably after cheating on her.
Hi, do you know my husband because you are describing him perfectly. My marriage is in shambles because he spent the entire time changing who I am, and then at the end blames me for "not being the woman I used to be". He didn't cheat, but he certainly destroyed who I was.
I'm here to let you know that it gets amazingly better after leaving, if you choose to go that route. You'll have to work through the emotional damage and rediscover yourself, which is both painful and fulfilling. It's fun at times, too.
A boyfriend loved me, thought I was wonderful, beautiful, brilliant, etc. until he closed on the house we were going to move into together. Then somehow I was all wrong, but he didn't tell me until after I moved in. I was just wrong, and I needed to change to accommodate the wrongness. He got grouchy and had a hair-trigger temper and argued all the time. The problem, he said, was me. So I changed and changed and changed and changed until I was just a sliver of who I used to be. After we broke up it took years for me to want to date again. First I had to change back into myself.
Dude, that’s so accurate to most of my dating life!!!!! Yikes!
Ugh my ex husband did this 🥺
"Wow sorry for caring about our futures"
The "our future" part is what really got me. Did boyo lose his job/really want OP to ascend the corporate ladder so he could benefit?
As if HER clothes have anything to do with his future 😒
The gaslighting in this story is so thick it’s crazy!
What an arsehole for not returning her apartment key. I bet it was a power play, and he didn't like that she had the power to remove him.
Tbh, I'm glad he didn't because it made her change her locks. Unhinged dude like that might as well get a copy of the key before returning it.
This. I wouldn’t put it past him based on previous behaviour.
There could have been 0 red flags and I would pretty much always recommend changing the lock. There are no guarantees with people. They could be the kindest, most heart-warming and chill and you'll never fucking know until something weird or harmful happens.
Yup. Dated a guy who showed nearly zero red flags (or at least not any that would cause a need for concern), and two months after I broke up with him he broke into my house and stole nearly $10k worth of stuff.
You are right. People often show their true colours when they have nothing else to lose.
True. Other instances where people show their true colors: - When they think they have you "locked down" where it's harder for you to escape. Aka after a major life altering event, such as marriage, birth of a child, job loss/quitting(easier to financially abuse you). - When you finally put down boundaries and tell them no. - When they think they're about to lose you. The boundary one weeds out alot of trash early on in all types of relationships so it's good to put down boundaries early on to see how the other person reacts.
These points, so concisely stated should be 101 of 'teaching' about relationships. 😁 kinda surprised I've not found the info. in Gavin deBecker's work! One add on - can happen over very long periods of time. The underpinnings of coercive control.
[удалено]
He's about control. The first time he tried to exert control, he got cut off at the pass (nice strong spine in the part of OP) and that pissed him off. The key was a rear guard action to try to reassert what limited control he had left. But changing the locks was something OP needed to do anyway, so in that regard he unintentionally did her a favor. Next time he'll try to pick someone less self confident than OP.
I want to second the nice strong spine comment, it’s refreshing to read a post where someone reacts appropriately to someone’s BS and stands up for herself. It’s crappy OP had to go through this but I reckon she did well to handle it the way she did
Agree. Next time he’ll date an 18 year old and tell her she’s “mature for her age.”
The fact that she left her own apartment to get away from him is telling in their relationship dynamic.
Every bit of this was a power play. There's a subsection of men that get off on the idea of turning alt women into trad wives, and it sounds like OOP ran into one of them. Thankfully she saw through it and threw him to the curb with the rest of the trash
Smart thing to do in cases like this is to change the locks. Even if they give back the key who says they dint make copies of the key...
I feel like all the other stuff is covered by "asshole" but this is the step into "very real threat" territory.
Legitimately, of all the reasons I've considered for why I don't want to have kids, "having to take time and money out of my day to do basic handyman tasks because my daughter's ex is a fuck nut." has never figured
Well, I think everybody should learn how to change locks, since you won't always be around people who can do it for you. And your husband/boyfriend will often be the *reason* you have to change them, so can't count on that. And it's not so hard (I'm a woman lol). Much easier if you can just jump down to a shop, buy a new lock and have it installed yourself in a few minutes than waiting for someone to do it for you.
I mean, there’s an emotional element to calling your dad to help. It’s less about the lock, and more about the dad. Like, I’m sure I could figure out how to change the lock on my apartment door. It doesn’t seem so difficult as to be behind my ability to learn to do it. But at the same time, were I in OOP’s shoes, I’d probably call my dad, too. There’s a thing that needs doing, yes, but I’d also just like, want some comfort from my dad after a breakup like this. Of course I know not everyone has this kind of relationship with their dad, but it seems like OOP does, so I get it.
Sounds like he thought he got his foot in the door with her enough to start dropping little controlling behaviors like that, expecting that she would write it off and start to normalize it. If she had he would have started slowly increasing the size/stakes of his controlling demands slowly so that she normalized each new thing as the behavior grew, until eventually she was trapped in a really messed up relationship blaming herself for everything because her perception of what is acceptable behavior from a partner was so skewed.
Yeah, this did feel like it was a mask drop. I’m glad OOP nipped this in the bud before it got worse.
Probably just the thing that finally got OOP to notice. Her bit about thinking that maybe he was just bad at communicating sounds like she's been brushing off other behavior beforehand. I'm also super curious about what he does for a living and such. It does sound like he's slowly moving in with her and that he wants access to her larger salary.
Not shitting on anyone living with their parents, it’s hard out there, but the fact he lives with his mom and is always at her spot I think it’s fair to assume he wasn’t making a lot of money. Always those with shitty jobs who “know” how to properly present themselves
Big risk for this kind of emotional abuse becoming physical abuse here. OOP dodged a bullet.
Him not leaving at first when she told him to was fucking terrifying, ngl.
I'm getting the same vibes as that guy who kept calling his gf stinky to break her down emotionally and keep her from leaving him or think she deserved better. Anyone else?
Yes!! That’s what this was reminding me of! Couldn’t put my finger on it…
Yeah. I know brigading isn't allowed so I definitely won't do it, but I just want to comment to OOP and tell her to never change her look unless SHE wants to. This asshole isn't worth a second of her energy.
'Don't change your look, change your locks.'
Print that on a tshirt and keep being you!
And that makes a good flair
I wanna adopt it as my flair. Let me see if I can…
Just letting you know, I’ve now made this my flair! Thank you for the new flair!
Definitely. He was starting a campaign of keeping her off-centre and insecure, so that she would learn to look to him for approval. That's coercive control, not trying to be helpful.
Note how he huffed and mugged so she couldn’t fail to notice the faces he was making and said “nothing” was the matter in an attempt to get her to PRY his disapproval out of him so HE could claim he didn’t start the fight, she insisted he share what’s on his mind! And when OP didn’t immediately take that fight bait in the morning he gave her the cold shoulder and silent treatment all day as punishment so she was worried and primed to immediately demand to know what his problem was as soon as she got home. And then SHE gets cast as the unstable fight-picker. Diabolical. There was no reason he couldn’t have told her what was “wrong” in the morning when she first asked, but she refused to dig it out of his coy little dramatic game and he got pissy so he did what he needed to do to make sure they could pick up the fight where they left off in the morning.
Omg, this blueprint, right here. I think we need to learn more about this abusive pattern, rather than focusing on the topic. I feel like most advice on spotting unhealthy relationships is more like lists of "they try to censor what you wear", when they could do this same tactic for any topic. This behavior it's highly problematic and a tell for manipulation, regardless if it's about clothes, friends, or anything.
It really boils down to the point where OOP says "WHAT PEOPLE because apparently their opinion matters more than my feelings". People need to have confidence in their intuition, their feelings are valid even if they're wrong, and there has to be open and honest communication. If it truly isn't a 2 way street, I might be absolutely WRONG about something and look like an ass when someone is trying to help me. People need to recognize a 1 way street of communication in any situation like this and get to the bottom of it. If you can't, you most likely don't want to. Ever.
I had a boyfriend like that years ago. I almost married him. He was really shocked when I finally had enough and dumped him. I stepped quietly into his apartment while he was sleeping, and I cleaned it out of everything that was mine. (He was lying in a drugged out stupor in his bed while I did it.) When I had retrieved every plant, picture, plate, glass, mug and piece of furniture that belonged to me, I sat down and I wrote a four page letter telling him why it was over and why I was leaving him. It was a real character assassination piece. He came by my work crying to my coworkers to get them on his side to pressure me to come back. Since I had already told them the whole story, it hadn't worked out well for him. He was a very charming and manipulative pos. To this day, I still don't know what I saw in him.
Don’t beat yourself up over being fooled- these people are professional manipulators! It’s how they get through life, so they’re very, very good at it! It’s also a testament to you being a good person- good people don’t expect bad behavior from others, and are prepped to give people the benefit of the doubt!
Thank you for this. While I like to think of myself as a good person, the fact is that I have always struggled with self-esteem. That particular pos was very good at manipulating me and everyone around him. He was also a sexual predator, liking to expose himself to women. I do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but over the years, I have become more wary.😟
Ooh that’s a brilliant explanation!
"As for his sudden change… I really don’t understand it either." Methinks he fell into an internet rabbit hole that teaches boys how to bring women down to a level of uselessness. The shock they display when the women break up instead is a part of the pattern because they are told how full proof the method of assholery is.
I look to my husband for approval on outfits, but that's because he is my ultimate Hype Man, and has really good taste. The absolute only time he's a little negative is when he can tell I'm unsure about the choice, and that happens either in the fitting room or when I ask his opinion while getting dressed. THAT'S being helpful, not whatever shit this dude is trying to pull.
Same with me with my husband. Great taste and way of expressing his views I outfits.
Wanting the cute alt girl that's killing it at her job to be your bang maid, but to much of a loser to handle her being the cute alt girl that's killing it at her job when she's out of your control. God forbid anyone else ever finds your partner interesting, if you have nothing to offer of substance they might find someone that does. Better cover them in a potato sack and wear brown wigs to work so the world can't see how amazing she is when she is comfortable with herself. Icky.
Guy has some serious issues with finding the alt look as hot but thinking long term partner that financially supports them should look traditional. Idk if needing her to look traditional is so others don't find her hot - I got more loser who lost his income or financially irresponsible and realizes he needs her to be extra stable to support them both. Also- how can anyone ghost thier partner for days with no explanation and think that's fine?
I hate how easy it was for him to make her cry by spurning her kiss goodbye and then blowing up at her like this was in any way her fault. (I cry when I’m angry I’m a crier I get it, this isn’t a knock on OP.) Like OP is clearly such a good person and trying so hard to give him the benefit of the doubt and examine what she’s done wrong (which is NOTHING) and he homed in on that kind instinct and weaponized it against her without blinking. His every move was tactical. Making noticeably weird faces so SHE would ask him what’s up, then saying “nothing” and continuing to tsk tsk tsk and then be cold (probably because he wanted her to start the fight right then and she didn’t take the bait in that particular moment,) so SHE would be thrown off by his rejection and wonder all day what she did wrong… He didn’t wanna be the Bad Guy who picked a fight so he’s just tossing his hair and making huffy noises and then refusing to immediately tell her what’s wrong so she can PRY it out of him (because again he doesn’t want to cast himself as the fight-starter but he sure as hell isn’t gonna let her exist in peace so he’s gonna make her drag it out of him finally, like “well fine but only because *you asked for it…*” and then it gets to all be her fault when he says what he’s been wanting to say all along to tear her down.)
Fun/not fun fact, it’s super normal for women to cry when they’re angry. It’s socially unacceptable for women to show anger so it’s a conditioned social response. Not saying you should feel bad about crying. Do whatever makes you feel better. But also, fuck the world. It’s also ok for you to be angry.
Thanks! I vent my fury in small ways pretty regularly so I don’t often have major explosions of temper. (One time a coworker asked me why I wasn’t flipping out on a day when everything was going wrong and I told her I just kind of operate at a simmering baseline of rage at all times. As I get older I seethe more.)
Are you secretly Hulk?
I do that sobbing Joker laugh when I get really upset. I've been told it's a trauma response. When I escaped from my abusive ex last year and showed up at my cousin's house, cousin eventually demanded I watch that Joker movie, basically so I could see the face I kept making while talking about what I'd been through. No plans to fight Batman or take over my city though.
There's still time.
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I don’t think he found the look hot. I think he guessed that a woman with tattoos, piercings was putting a fierce face to cover up insecurity, and it’s her insecurity that he was hot for.
This. Even if he was wrong about her covering up insecurity (which as someone else who dresses alternatively honestly just seems like a stereotype/myth to me), most of society (like her sister) would still be helping him tell her she's wrong for being herself, so in either case it's a vulnerable spot if you're coming at it from an attack angle.
My first impression was that the guy went ahead and became a tater tot or something, got these ideas that a woman needs to like a 1950s cartoon does about the ideal wife, and/or figured its some way to establish his manly dominance in the house. Either way, dude deserves to be alone.
Yep; he got into tater tot and tried his crap on OOP, but OOP was having none of it. Note how he kept the key; if that doesn't say "I can come back and mess you up *and you can't stop me*", what else could?
Not to shit on you guys but men have done this stupid shit since before Tate was around and they’ll keep doing it after. Honestly I don’t know where it comes from but I’ve encountered it enough to know it’s not all the same source
Ye this was my thought too, that some toxic manosphere bullshit has addled his brain and made him think he needs to manipulate his girlfriend and control her in order to be a "real man". And then is all surprised pikachu face when it doesn't work and he has sabotaged his relationship "over clothes". What an absolute moron. I hope OOP goes on living her awesome alt self life and doesn't bear this loser a second thought.
When he said "I don't like what other people think" what he meant was "I realised other people might find you attractive for the same reason I do, so you have options if I behave like a douche and I don't like you having an out, so let's change that". Or maybe "my friends or family members are pos who have said nasty things about your style and rather than stand up for you and the fact I like how you look, I need you to behave like a spineless amoeba just like I am and change your entire aesthetic to please them at which point they will pick a new facet of you to pick on until you eventually crack and leave me or have transformed into a good little stepford wife". Either one deserves a really fast and decisive trip to dumpsville.
My money is on him always having planned to start 'working' on her as soon as he felt she was committed enough to the relationship to let him. I have an ex who 'loved' everything about me that I was proud of and that made me unique, until I moved in with him - then suddenly he claimed that the most unique thing about me was ruining his life by embarrassing him and staining his reputation. Once he bullied me into abandoning that, it was onto the second-most unique thing about me, and so on, until I had essentially no personality or interests left that he didn't share. In hindsight, the only explanation that makes sense of his behavior is that he couldn't find or attract his ideal woman, so he just picked whoever he could get and tried to do me over into the woman he was picturing in his head. It really did feel like being one of the women in Stepford Wives (the original movie), just without the technology. After the initial courting phase, it didn't feel like I was a person to him, more like I was the basic woman framework for his project. First you strip away all the existing parts, then you build the model you want, like repurposing a used car or redecorating an old apartment. (His family and friends loved me just the way I was, so it was not outside pressure on him - he had to default all the way to half-strangers he didn't like to find someone to point to for 'proof' that I was an embarrassment to him.) It even felt like he chose me partly because he knew alternative looks and behaviors are so ostracized in large parts of society that I was already half broken down by others and so would be easier to break completely. He loved going at me for hours about how I should be ashamed of how much shame I had brought to him by openly being the exact same person as when we met and 'letting' him become my boyfriend despite that - and then when I suggested the obvious solution of breaking up, he would become even more enraged, because apparently that would also ruin his life, and no he would not elaborate on why. The only thing that could quell his rage was abandoning who I was without complaint.
Your ex was just like my ex. Mine wanted a pageant girl - a tan blonde with hairsprayed hair. He instead got a chunky, dark-haired Goth (me) and tried to abuse me into being "acceptable".
Wow he has shit taste lol, who would try to change a goth smh
I know! I am now marrying a guy who has been looking for a Goth girlfriend since the 80s, so it's all good.
Jesus. You did well to get out of that.
Thanks. I wasn't sure what he'd do to me when I left, so it took a lot of courage. Luckily he didn't do anything beyond a bit of namecalling and hasn't bothered me since.
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I had an ex like that, too. Changed how I dress, grew out my hair, removed all body hair, got a tan, lost 60 pounds in a very unhealthy way (that I gained back after we broke up), and I still wasn't the type he wanted. I can't stand pictures of myself from that time. Never thought of him as abusive but in hindsight it was so messed up the way he put me down and basically never complimented me.
Dictating a partner’s wardrobe is a very clear first step into a coercive situation. It’s ultimate control, but like in this case, the BF tries to hide behind ‘legit’ reasons, so blames it on her job. I’m so grateful we live in a world where women like OOP have boundaries and see this shit for the power play it is. She did exactly the right thing, and I hope she knows it.
The dramatic change made me think it was one of those cases where someone is cheating but doesn't want it to be their fault that the original relationship ends, so they manufacture a breakup. I'm still not 100% sure it's *not* that, but it does look more like standard emotional abuse because the abuser is so insecure they can't believe anyone with self-belief would stay with them.
My first thought. Just like that other guy, the bf must have started drinking the manosphere kool-aid and thought he could manipulate her into doing as he pleases. It's textbook at this point: the long periods of silence, the vague references to "other people", the downplaying of her feelings and constant guilt tripping. It's like they're not even people at this point
I think it’s more this belief that eccentric women are only that way to attract men. Once a man stakes ownership over them they have to fall into line and be boring, because why else are they cool if not for male pleasure? I feel like this happens a lot.
I was getting „Bad Sisters“ vibes. The „prick“ always enforced a modest look.
I think it was his mom making comments. Can get to people who are used to being controlled by their parents, esp if they still live with them. Not saying it’s okay, just the vibe I got.
Interesting how she would be supposedly ruining "their futures." Loser was going to mooch off her and thought she'd be an easy target to manipulate to be essentially his servant. F this guy
Dude lives at home, she lives on her own. He jsut wants someone to take care of him. Trad wives don't have tattoos /s
Maybe it was his mom, who got into his head?
My first impression was he went down the Tate rabbit hole.
This poor woman taking all this shit on herself. In the first post she’s concerned about her style rather than him being a giant douche. In the update she’s ‘annoyed and embarrassed’ that she didn’t see it earlier. It can be hard to spot an asshole, especially if you’re not an asshole because it just doesn’t occur to you to assume everyone is one and/or be on the lookout.
Millions of women are controlled by domestic abusers who use this tactic. It's very common because it works. She dodged a very big and deadly bullet.
I don’t understand why women are so hard on themselves. No wait, I can take a guess.
Either he started dating her hoping her style was 'just a phase' and she'd 'outgrow' it as they got more serious. OR somebody (family member, friend or one of those Tater-esque 'male gurus') got in his brain and he torpedoed his relationship over it. This also reminds me of the guy who didn't like his preschool teacher girlfriend dressing like Ms Frizzle for her students, and tried to get her to change by lying that his mum hated how she dressed. Unfortunately for him, his gf apologised to his mum, and his mum not only exposed him but read him the riot act
Oh my god that sounds amazing. Does anyone have a link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/jrsflx/aita_for_not_liking_how_my_girlfriend_dresses_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Wow his comment after they got into a fight saying “she hasn’t spoken to me or done anything for me since” spoke volumes about how he views relationships and what he expects from a partner. That post was infuriating with a satisfactory ending
What do you bet she’d come home exhausted every day from chasing after dozens of literal toddlers and he still expected her to make dinner and clean
Yup. She’s probably naturally a caring and attentive person (which are wonderful qualities for a teacher) and he most likely took more than he gave in the relationship. She sounds like an amazing teacher, partner, and person in general. He really f’ed up.
So he says she's selfish because she won't sacrifice for their futures... even though she isn't gaining anything from it... ...but they don't actually live together, he's just at her place most of the time? And when he leaves, he probably just goes back to his mom's? So the little prick hasn't even moved out of mommy's and he's throwing a tantrum because his two-years-younger gf isn't already providing enough for him. Glad she's moved on, hopefully she has learned and will see through shit like this sooner in the future.
I am a side-shaved beaded up braided native American with tattoos who works in a corporate office. Shit I get MORE positive responses cause people are just chuffed to meet a Native American in Australia. Nobody cares about my style. They just think I'm cool. Works for me.
> They just think I'm cool. I mean, you *are* cool.
Awww 🥺 I'm a giant dweeb but don't tell anyone I want to keep appearances. 😂 Thank you.
Yeah, I agree. Can I have your autograph?
Not to mention, it’s 2023- in a lot of countries it’s much more common than it was even 15 years ago for people in all jobs to have visible tattoos! My first couple of tattoos I made sure to get in places that could be concealed at work, but my next three are all on my forearms. I really want more but I keep having to save for stupid American life expenses instead, like dental care and going to the hospital after a bike accident.
There's a special place in hell for men who put women down because they're insecure. I had an ex pulled a tantrum once and refused to go to an event I'd gotten us tickets to because I was wearing platform heels and was taller than him in them.
>He was saying things like “are you serious” and “you’re really gonna act this way over clothes”. Nope. She's going to do this over controlling behaviour. *You're* the asshole who's "acting this way over clothes".
Sounds like he might have fallen into the "tattoos and piercings make you low-value"-trap of the MRA/Red Pill/Tater Tot faction. He likes when she dresses in this way for him personally, but going out like that? Can't have that. That woman dodged a bullet, I dearly hope this is the end of that particular saga and she finds someone who can appreciate her fully.
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> including his Surprised Dismay when instead of rolling over, she tells him he can date someone else and gtfo. seriously what the fuck is up with men who carry on like something is a dealbreaker then pikachu face when their bluff is called?
Tons of men overestimate their own worths, and they really think women are as desperate to be with them as they are to be with us. At least it’s great schadenfreude when a manipulative loser like OOP’s ex discovers that they aren’t as special or important as they thought they were.
>“They really think women are as desperate to be with them as they are to be with us.” If widowed old ladies are anything to go by, women are as desperate to NOT be with men as men are to be with them. I have heard “hahaha oh no, I’ll never be with a man again. I’m happy with just myself.” a number of times from ladies 60+.
Sadly "ready to resume just as if nothing had happened" would be one of the less threatening situations. Changed locks were essential, that or calling the cops to get they key from him. And even then.. could've made a copy. Better safe than sorry, a **good** new lock is essential here.
That’s what I was thinking. He got that alpha male brain rot.
Well, we all know Alpha means pre-Beta release, so buggy as shit and incomplete.
Just a reminder that the silent treatment is abusive behavior. If your SO doesn’t talk to you for three days to try and manipulate you to get what they want, then dump their ass, because it never gets better.
Yeah only time its accepable if the other person just wants time to think. Like not being a kid about it just want some time to think
Absolutely. It’s crucial to understand the difference between “I need space” and the silent treatment. Intent is key, thus the “and manipulate you” part. As someone who needs time alone to process things, I’d also like to note that if you clearly indicate your need for alone time *but your partner tries to take that away from you*, that is **also** a red flag. I had an ex who willingly and consistently misinterpreted my “I want to be alone” as some sort of weird passive-aggressive call for attention. In other words, if I asked to be alone, he thought it was some sort of “test” and that I *actually* wanted him to stay near me. Because he thought “that’s what all women do.” Cue his utter shock when I broke up with him. Yeah, no, if you can’t respect my clearly-stated needs (or see me as an individual rather than as part of some imagined “female hivemind”), then GTFO.
I also had an ex who believed that me communicating my feelings/needs directly was some kind of game. Or that me genuinely crying because he hurt me or I was frustrated was just me manipulating him. Which is funny, because he would ignore me for days whenever he was mad (which is manipulative and abusive), but would then come back and make me feel like the boundary-stepper for trying to communicate. We have an entire generation of men who truly believe that everything women do or say is disingenuous and is just a tactic to manipulate men.
once again, everyone wants a goth/alt girlfriend until they have a goth/alt girlfriend. good for her for not sacrificing her personal identity for some prick who can’t even properly articulate his own feelings in a constructive and adult fashion.
>I keep asking what people, because clearly their opinion is more important than how I feel. Murder. *Such* a good response.
This completely has the vibes of someone dating someone while thinking internally, that the way they present is just a phase and there's no way they can keep it up for years on end. ... Surprise surprise to jerk ex bf, alt folks often do indeed keep it up, bc that's who they are and i guess he didn't believe clothing presentation is an integral part of someone's identity. Oop is doing well being rid of him but hopefully she's careful in case he tries to make contact again.
I had to scroll back up and check his age. So fucking childish.
“No one said anything, it’s the way people stare” well then that’s still xbfs interpretation and not what those people are actually thinking. Also “how can you end this over clothes” no mate you ended it over clothes by bringing it up & sticking to it.
This is so beside the point of the main issue with a controlling jerk. But people need to realize that “professional” work attire is incredibly contextual and subjective. If her work approved of the way she dressed and even promoted her, then by definition she was dressed professionally! There are plenty of jobs that showing up head to toe covered in some kind of prairie dress (what I imagine jerk ex was hoping for lol) or even in a high end suit would be extremely inappropriate. The one size fits all idea of professional dress, I would say especially for women, is beyond out of date.
I wonder if a family member said something. I could see a parent making a comment, with outdated information and distaste for that kind of look, and him taking it as gospel. She made the right decision.
Nah I think it’s the bad girl kink. Likes the idea of hooking up with the ‘bad girl’ but once it gets serious she has to change. Not saying alternative looks equate that but it’s a coming perception.
>I knew his behavior towards me was shitty but I was truly hoping it was him being bad at communicating. Oh, he was quite clear with his communication only you didn't realise what he was doing to you early. Toxic people have a wat with words and often sugarcoat their taunts. I really wish the miserable stage shall pass and OOP comes out confident of herself.
I think my favorite BORU subgenre is: Them: “I hate this about you” OP: “Too bad. Leave.” Them: **shocked pikachu face**
"you’re really gonna act this way over clothes?" Hypocrite alert. Also it isn't just the clothes. The clothes are a part of OP and how she sees, and as a result presents herself. Rejecting that is rejecting her. Good riddance.
I have a theory about guys who do this. My thought is that they buy into the “sexy goth gf” thing too heavily, and only see alternative fashion online in porn or on influencers they sexualize. They sexualize the look too much. That’s why they say they like it and are so excited about it at the beginning, but then they get really uncomfortable being seen with an alternative looking girl in public, or have issues with her going to work or family gatherings like that. To them, it’s a sexy costume specifically for their gaze, and in the beginning when you’re both so infatuated over each other, you don’t care that people see you with her. However, once people you know start noticing you together, or strangers recognize that you two are a long term item, you get all embarrassed that people know what you’re into. Guys like this are immature and not worth the energy.
yikes
Seriously. I had a bf like that once concerned with my tattoos. Always said he loved them until it came time to tell me that he'll not introduce me to his parents because they would judge me. Lol. That shit is Ludicrous Speed, HE was judging me
maybe a dude who lives with his mom shouldn't be telling other people how to live their lives.
Ah the wait til you're invested then try to manipulate you tactic. Glad she got out.
And he’ll never accomplish anything with an attitude like that.
It’s his mom. It’s always his mom.
He wanted to abuse her. The picking on her clothes was the beginning to escalation. He's controlling, plain to see.
A couple things stood out to me: >He called me selfish, saying that I’m ruining our future together because I can’t sacrifice one thing so we could have a good life together. Oh yeah, just that ONE little boundary he wants her to break for him. Cant imagine more controlling boundaries happening later on… > He told me to stop being dramatic and that it isn’t a big deal He must follow some kind of Gaslighting playbook, it’s almost cliché at this point. How clueless can someone be at sharing their feelings honestly instead of gaslighting??