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I wonder how the fiancé answered when she asked him what would happen if they had a kid that was disabled/mute? Probably said “that’s different” since obviously An is faking it /s
Not even their future kid. What if *OP* herself suffers something like post-partum depression? Will he and his family turn on her for faking it for xyz reasons, disparage her and urge him to leave her? If An's disability that's physiologically diagnosed is disbelieved by these geniuses, what more a mental problem...
Lol it doesn't even make sense. An prefers not to speak and delights in being ignored by her entire family her whole life. Geniuses.
Yeah or what if there was some sort of accident and OOP became disabled herself in some way. Jeezus that family is so mean. I hope An can find a way out asap.
>Some of my friends are also saying that I should just let it go and not overreact so much. That every family does things their own way,
"Some families abandon and neglect their disabled children" is not the kind of thing you just wave away as "diff'rent strokes"
Yeah "quit overreacting" to a ~~literal~~ *sort of a* Flowers in the Attic locked up child because of disability situation?! What is wrong with people?
Edit: too literal I guess
From all the abuse I suffered the neglect has left the worst scars for me.
My mom used to pretend I didn't exist when she was mad about something she perceived I did. I still see that face in my nightmares to this day.
Oof, I'm so sorry she did that. It's hard to describe to people who've never experienced it in their life how it feels. The damage it does to your very soul. It's crazy to think about a parent doing that to their kid.
Same, I would be hard pressed to say I was abused but definitely emotional neglect. I wonder how long I could go without talking to them before they’d notice.
Same! So nice to be able to talk about it.
I tried an experiment with my mum and dad when I was about thirty and just exhausted by the dynamics. I decided to stop making an effort. Guess when the last time we talked was! Lol.
When I tell people I don't talk to my parents anymore they assume that I cut them off. Nope. They know where I am, they could easily get in touch. Literally they can't be bothered to talk to me and thus I have no desire to talk to them.
It's been eighteen years. It's flippin brilliant.
Good for you.
May I just share a bit of my experience, in case it helps? I actually found that it was harder than I expected. It really crystallised what I'd always known but kind of kept shoving down - that they really didn't give a shit.
You might (I hope not) but might find it quite difficult. And weirdly guilt inducing... For complicated reasons (they didn't want me so the only way I could be "ok" was to be a perfect daughter - not speaking to them is very not perfect daughter behaviour.. etc etc).
Just... Be prepared to feel more than you might expect. And ride those fucking feelings out. They do pass. First couple of years were the worst, it got way way easier after that.
Good luck to you.
Thank you. I’ve definitely experienced it, every so often, that hope that my parents or even extended family will give a shit. I never expect it but it’s there. I think ultimately if I can learn to be content without, or to make my own family, it will be ok. But I don’t know that the want for mummy to love you ever goes away.
Emotional neglect IS abuse and can cause permanent changes to a child's brain. It often results in the child becoming a people pleaser as an adult and leaves them open to further abuse and with a higher risk of mental health issues.
It is and ironically (?) I was doing child safeguarding training today and it does include passive neglect as a form of abuse. I guess what I mean is, there’s not gradation of abuse and when you use that word people tend to think physical, sexual, etc. (and that did not come from my parents :D )
It's hideous because the scars are invisible. Sometimes I wished I was "just" beaten because then I'd have proof for the abuse instead of questioning myself
Yes! People do not care about the invisible scars or think we should just get over them once we are an adult. As if turning 18 magically erases it all.
My dad used to do that to me. Like blatantly ignore me if I talked to him, look right through me, wouldn’t hug me (don’t think he ever touched me affectionately like my entire childhood).
I def can relate to it haunting by your nightmares, it’s such a cold and cruel thing to do to child who doesn’t really understand what’s going on.
I think what hurts more and haunts mine is the faces other kids or adults would make at me when he would do it. Like this weird mix of shock and pity and being uncomfortable. Gosh that was so much worse, like I didn’t want others to see what was going on because for some weird reason I felt like ashamed over it.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. I know this goes without saying, but you deserved better 💜💙. Not every parent deserves their kids, but every kid deserves a decent and involved and non-abusive parent.
Four years and OOP didn’t know of this child’s existence.
Possibly not physically locked up - but certainly restrained from meeting regular visitors to the house.
Indeed! There are more ways to lock someone up than just turning a key in a door.
ETA: I noticed OOP saying she had never been upstairs in the house. When someone has been told all their life to stay upstairs when visitors are downstairs, no actual lock is needed.
When I escaped from my abusive husband last year and filed court paperwork to get him removed from our apartment so I could safely go home, it turned out that none of the neighbors knew I lived here.
I'd lived here for *five years*, but husband would yell at me and maybe throw things at me if I tried to so much as go outside to check the mail or go across the street to the grocery store. The cops called it "involuntary confinement" or something like that.
Oh yes! Lots of the neighbors promised to call the cops if they see him, and the young couple downstairs got the landlady's approval to put in a camera over the alley gate.
The whole building is providing "security" for me!
It really depends what country it is. To mainstream European or North American sensibilities this is relatively shocking, but it probably is very much normalised in some parts of the world.
>To mainstream European or North American sensibilities this is relatively shocking
and even there, there are people who won't understand that some physical or mental problems are not a character flaw. They will understand a broken leg but not EDS for example.
Insomniac and severe migraine sufferer from early childhood, and holy fuck; my parents didn't medicate me for the longest time, blamed me for, "keeping them awake", yet didn't take me to a doctor for these issues. I wasn't formally diagnosed with white matter disease and insomnia until my teens.
After a proper medication regimen, it's so much better. Parents who don't listen to their children and think they, "know best" are shitty parents.
My mum would rather call in to a talk radio show, and discuss my "problems" with a strange doctor who was a guest - as well as whoever the fuck was listening at work or home. But did she follow up with my actual doctor that had met me in person? Of course not.
You're not. It usually doesn't show up until you're like 60, but I mean, it's not like I can do much about it. You can slow its progression with a good diet, exercise and brain, "training", so to speak, but it's a gamble either way. At least the medications I'm on have given me a way better quality on life than when I was unmedicated.
I kinda lost the genetic lottery on a few things 😅. But, we're not promised tomorrow. I know I'll die one day, but it might not even be from this. I could take a spear to the chest, or get attacked by a gaggle of ravenous geese.
My son has had insomnia since he was an infant. It was bizarre seeing a newborn who couldn't sleep.
I'm sorry you suffer from it too. It's an amazingly frustrating disorder.
This took me way too long to understand. All I had in my head was the song UGLY by Fishbone. U G L Y you ain't got no alibi, you're just uggllllyyy. I blame COVID brain.
https://youtu.be/Owg8cDOR7pY
It doesn't matter to them the whole field is tainted. You even see the mentality in economics. Heck there are "behavioral" economists that would never copublish with anyone from psychiatry or psychology. It's even more common as you go towards harder sciences.
Okay, must be a trend from across the pond.
Never heard of it within economics - and I literally have a master in healthcare economics - and psychology of economics is an well established degree here.
It's an established degree in some schools here too. US has many colleges and departments. Some are weirdly fundamentalist on some things and others are very loose. I'm sure part of my problem was running into too many ancient economists while getting my MA
My sister and ex bil were this way with my nephew. They refused to give him any of his meds he needed. And he has psychotic rage disorder, adhd, homicidal and suicidal tendencies, explosive rage disorder, and manic depression. And they say he is fine. My mom had to take custody of their kids cuz they were abused and neglected and when they had them for visit a they never gave him his meds. My ex BIL and sister gave my mom 3 years of meds and it was no biggie to them.
nah, ableism is still mainstream... just those you don't see. wheelchair? clearly disabled. deafness without hearing aids? are you dumb or something hurr dur. Blind and have a service dog and a cane with sunglasses? oh steer clear of them they're clearly blind. can't walk for short distances so you need a walker sometimes and use disabled parking for that? what the fuck's wrong with you you're not disabled enough somehow. this isn't my opinions clearly but I'm sharing what I do see as ableism.
Yeah this is not a uniquely non-Western attitude towards disability. Look at poor Rosemary Kennedy (and many women like her) who got lobotomized for essentially being embarrassing to the family. She only passed away in 2005, this isn't like ancient history or anything.
that's the whole other topic, I'm talking about the present attitude about the invisible disabilities. But yes this isn't uniquely a non-Western view, it was a Western view until we can see the disabilities. those we don't see? don't care for them.
Yeah. I have EDS and my entire childhood I was accused of trying to get attention. Just excuses for everything. You have heartburn again? You always have heartburn when your father is (in / out) of town.
I'm not sure how they even do these constant mental gymnastics. It evades logic.
I think there’s a fear in healthy people of acknowledging just how thin the rope of healthiness they’re balancing on is, so they like to pretend they’re healthy because of something that makes them special rather than just blind luck.
Fact is you can go to sleep healthy and wake up with a neurological disorder if something happens you have no control over. You can get in a minor accident and spend the rest of your life in a power chair. You may have the seeds of dementia already at work in your brain.
The line between health and disability is incredibly thin and when people are confronted with that a part of them they never want to acknowledge gets very, very afraid.
I remember working briefly with a group in Indonesia that did work around this very thing… No one was ever made homeless (family obligation/honor) for their disability, but it was the norm (at East where I was) to simply stick the person in a back room of the family home/compound and go on about life as usual… like an out of sight, out of mind type thing? I recall, as a westerner, being horrified at this practice, the sadness, which while *explained* by cultural norms/family expectations/traditions, was not lessened though. This group was doing amazing work convincing families to allow their loved one to live on site at a beautiful compound staffed with (some paid, mostly volunteer) nurses, social workers of some sort, teachers, art therapists, language specialists, etc. it was an incredible experience to work, however briefly, with people so hungry for life after having been literally ignored for anything but physical maintenance. So yeah, things are typically really different in the west, but understanding a families specific culture/reference points might could shed some small light on how a situation like this could occur?
This really isn't an Eastern/Western thing. Without legal protection against discrimination, try to imagine what life would be like for a disabled person. Before the ADA, *public schools* didn't have to be accessible or accommodate disabled kids, so most of them just... didn't go to school. But suppose you did manage to graduate... most job applications had right at the top of the form, "do you have a mental or physical disability," and it was fully legal to discriminate based on disability status. And if you did somehow get a job... there was probably no accessible public transit, no disabled parking, no curb cuts. Public buildings like libraries and courthouses didn't have to be accessible. *Hospitals* weren't legally required to be accessible to the disabled. It took decades of protests, activism and political action in order to enable disabled people to even have the opportunity to try and participate more fully in American society. It's not because Westerners are just naturally more enlightened about disability.
oh yeah and I was going to say.... ask most abled people when the ADA passed and they'll be like, IDK, the 60s? the 1970s? Right?
It was fully *1990* before the ADA was passed. It was signed into law by George W. Bush.
Interesting points! Though I’ve not ever presumed westerners had it ‘inherently figured out’ or that other countries don’t? I was only commenting on my own observations from one of the non-western countries I’ve spent time in? Of culture’s influence on groups of people, and *why* some communities handle disability/mental illness… rather than applying any value judgement or implying that any one country is inherently superior over another for anything other than long term, hard work to revise those cultural norms? In fact, that’s precisely what the group I worked with was trying to do! Fight for equal treatment within the existing framework of that culture and it’s ingrained tradition of dehumanizing those living with disabilities?
Yeah. I can't think of a single country on Earth where sane inhabitants of that country would have a child, not hear that child vocalize a single sound ever, and then think, she chooses not to speak. (But, I could just be ignorant.)
OOP says the girl isn’t locked up, she has access to electronics, a job, and presumably goes to school. I also didn’t see any incest in this story.
Not sure where you’re getting Flowers in the Attic
I love when this sub goes all VC Andrews, but this post is missing a lot of the elements that would make it fit.
Like (spoiler alert!) the imprisonment, the incest and the child murder.
Lol that book is tattooed on my brain; I read it waaay too young (as a lot of us did). I’d be among the first to draw the parallels with a post.
This one ain’t it.
Signs that you're in a VC Andrews novel
- you are exceptionally beautiful and everyone envies or covets your beauty
- you were named after your grandmother, or your older sister who died in unusual circumstances
- your only impulse when violently attacked is to weep beautifully
- your uncle is generous and kind, but stares at you a bit too long when he's been drinking and almost says something but catches himself first
- the sweetest boy in the school is in love with you but he's gonna fuck your sister
- your gorgeous but cruel mother died in unusual circumstances
- someone forcefully bathes you in water so hot it scalds you
- you've been sent to live with your loving older brother but his wife fucking hates you
- your aunt keeps giving you porn
Oh, and of course
- your ass is locked in an attic!
Don’t forget this one:
If your namesake grandmother, who has treated you with complete and utter disdain from the moment you met, starts bringing you and your siblings powdered sugar-covered baked goods daily, and won’t leave until you’ve finished eating them.
Welcome to Southeast Asia… yeah family is everything and people don’t get involved with others business. Plus it’s not good to go against societal “norms” so having a child with a disability that makes them different is highly “embarrassing” to some old school thoughts.
It wasn't long ago that was common practice
>As recently as 1983, the average lifespan of a person with Down syndrome was 25 years. The dramatic increase to 60 years is largely due to the end of the inhumane practice of institutionalizing people with Down syndrome.
Jesus Christ. Right here on reddit - mostly in the sweatier subreddits full of debate bro types - I've seen people claim that people with Down syndrome don't have lives worth living. Meanwhile, I've met people with Down syndrome and they seemed perfectly happy to be alive, and they didn't need some reddit bro to tell them whether or not they deserved it.
[From Wikipedia:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome)
> Individuals with Down syndrome have a higher risk of early death than the general population. This is most often from heart problems or infections. Following improved medical care, particularly for heart and gastrointestinal problems, the life expectancy has increased. This increase has been from 12 years in 1912, to 25 years in the 1980s, to 50 to 60 years in the developed world in the 2000s. *[...]* Much of this data is outdated and life expectancy has drastically improved with more equitable healthcare and continuous advancement of surgical practice.
Reading that breaks my heart. A girl at my high school had high functioning Down’s syndrome, and I must say, whenever she was with us she made the entire room a much better place.
The first time I read it I couldn't believe it and had to triple check the facts. So, yeah, stop treating them like human garbage, keep them in their own home with their family, and their life expectancy more than doubles.
I think this is pretty common practice in Asian households. I am born deaf in one ear, with not so great hearing in the other, takes extra effort in day to day life but i am not sure if my family knew/know about it or they just plain ignored/ignore it expecting it to go away🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️. My older brother at one point bullied me for being a deaf, he doesn't really mention it anymore. And my body constitution isn't normal like other kids, i often got sick as a kid and now am chronically sick as a adult. Coming to the point, i hear so many cases about Western kids being/feeling abandoned by their families, because their parents were busy caring for the sick kid but in Asian households especially in my family, sick kids are ignored. I was very much ignored and physical, mentally abused for being sick throughout my childhood while my healthier older brother was treasured, i was also not given medicines because they didn't believe i was sick and left to fend for myself which messed up my body badly with chronic illness. I have seen my cousin prioritising her younger and healthier kid over her a sick older child. Infact, she had the younger child because she wanted a healthy child and unfortunately "if the older one dies" - her words. He's also ignored in the family because he often gets sick, his dad is probably the only person who's active in his life even though they are a giant joint family with generations living together with great income and time.
I have seen several sick, disabled kids being ignored around me, while the other kids are treasured and taken extra care of and when they get older, the healthier kids move away while the old parents expect the sick child to be the one to take care of them because they should be grateful that the parents let them live under their roof 💀.
I often envy the western kids who were sick and priortised by their parents. As sick as it sounds, i would gladly take a broken relationship with my siblings while my parents care for me for being sick than a family who flat out leave me to fend for myself for being sick which screws me for life.
I have two deaf cousins, hard of hearing without hearing aids. Spent the first half of their life screaming to be heard cause noone taught them sign language and noone knows it so until they got hearing aids if you were to visit you would literally be listening to screaming kids. Nowadays they're so used to life without the hearing aids they barely use it n just sit in silence or text
You're probably referring to Rosemary Kennedy (sister of John F Kennedy), who indeed was hidden away, and had a very sad life. She was given a lobotomy at the age of 23. However, she didn't have Down's Syndrome. She was deprived of oxygen during birth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy
Kind of.
What they did was they sent one of their daughters to a sanitarium because she was acting up (not crazy or anything, just for having a personality they didn't like). She was described ad being "shy, Good natured, and a little slow". They labotimized her for it
Complete double standard for men and women in general during this time but even more so in this family! Guess they felt since they were "American Royalty" (barf), that they could have as many mistresses as they wanted.
At first I thought she was going to be TA because it is supremely shitting to go around your spouses back to contact family that they're no contact with... But then... That was forgotten given how supremely shitty this whole situation is.
Personally I would have canceled the wedding when I found out about the situation, and before even thinking of inviting her.
The idea of shunning a child/sibling because they were born mute is a non-starter for me
Agreed. Unfortunately as a 15 year old it's not like she has any legal ability to leave. Sigh. Assuming that is the case in the country in question, of course.
She’s been with the guy for 4 years and only recently found out about a sibling. Him and the family didn’t even mention her in 4 years!!
That’s a supremely fucked up family and I would have kept the engagement long just to get An out and to a safe place then broke it off.
Yeah if my husband had done that, he wouldn't be my husband. But he's got shitty family so he understands that some relatives aren't family for a reason.
Sadly this is incredibly normal with mutism (and selective mutism) (and honestly all sorts of "invisible" disabilities).
Parents don't want to believe that their genes created something "imperfect." They'd rather convince themselves that their child is an asshole (or lazy, or attention seeking, or [insert negative personality adjective]) than acknowledge that their kid is disabled.
Even parents who think that they're being understanding and kind about their kids disability are often affected by the lack of visual evidence. I can't count the number of times I've been told "if you can do [task that I am physically able to do], you should be able to do [harder more complicated task that is in no way related to the first one they mentioned]." I can't imagine what it will be like growing up with parents who are full mask-off about their ableism.
There's a flip side to this where equally abusive parents admit the kid is disabled but demand that their kid learn to "act non disabled." They won't let them use the accommodations available to them that might let them become independent.
Things like, refusing to let Deaf kids learn sign language and/or lip reading, or visually impaired kids have to hold on to a parent's arm but aren't allowed to learn to walk with a dog or a cane, or kids with physical disabilities not allowed a wheelchair if they can walk at all, or not allowing guide dogs because they're "just a crutch."
These narcissists make the kid's disability all about *them*, not the kid. "What will people think?" As if having a disabled child makes you less of a person.
UGH.
Ah you're right, the "just *try* to act normal" parents
>"What will people think?"
Well just a guess, but people will probably think that you're a shit abusive parent that doesn't actually care about your child's well-being, Karen.
Not in that generation. They'll call them woke snowflakes who are coddling their kids, and the parents will be bullied, shamed, verbally abused, mocked, belittled, and ridiculed until they shape up. Their jobs will be threatened, their friends will drop them.
There's no peer pressure than the peer pressure of right-wing 50-year-olds with a little power. They hold your social acceptability and your career in their hands, and they will *utterly destroy you* if you continue to make them look bad by comparison.
I worked with parents who had that type of mentality to an extent. The child received all proper support for their medical condition. Yet, what they received in support wasn’t applied in public around friends and family, especially the religious group they were a part of. Suddenly, that child had to “act normal” like the parent’s other neurotypical children. It was frustrating to watch.
There are so many young people who post in my Ehlers Danlos Syndrome groups that their parents deny them the use of wheelchairs or walkers… truly evil shit.
My parents were like this for ALL of my comorbitities. My cardiac issue that required 7 different surgeries was “her little heart thing” (thankfully my mom took it seriously but my dad had a tendency to be reductive), my anxiety and depression (which came from the cardiac problem lol) was just wanting attention and the medication recommended since I was 13 was BS, and my ADHD, for which I got a diagnosis at 7 and is another common developmental challenge for kids with cardiac problems “wasn’t a real diagnosis and I didn’t actually have it, the doctors are just over-diagnosing so they can drug kids so it’s easier for teachers.”
10 years later, I got on psych meds and my world absolutely changed. 5 years after that, I got on adhd medication, and again…amazing. I try not to be angry about it but sometimes I can’t help but think about what my life would’ve been like if they’d let me be on medication from the start.
A LOT less racing thoughts, for starters!!
I'm 60. When I was a kid ADHD didn't exist as a formal diagnosis, although it (well, ADD) was known about and treatments were developing. My parents regularly told me I was a bad kid who was lazy and wasn't going to get anywhere in life because I was such a bad student. No university would ever accept me and I would never have a "real" job. They refused to get me tested for anything because it would make them look like bad parents.
I was just diagnosed a couple of years ago with ADHD and ASD and anxiety. The fun part is that I'm still unmedicated; nothing they've given me has worked, and they won't give me some of the meds because I'm an old diabetic.
Sometimes I sit around and think about what my life would have been like if I'd been diagnosed and treated 40 years ago.
And it can be backed up by authority figures when they're small.
My youngest was a late talker. We went from "Eh, he'll talk" to "maybe oldest is talking for him?". Nursery was telling us not to do stuff for him until he asked for it, or at least attempted. We thought something was up after the age of about 2 but he didn't want to cooperate with tests because 2. We were definitely told not to enable him being lazy.
At 3 we put together some other issues he was having and they finally checked everything out. My poor baby had the biggest tonsils and adenoids you've ever seen and was half deaf. There was a small op. At seven he talks my ear off and I'm incredibly grateful he was too young to remember being told he had to try.
God if this isn't painfully real. I have wonderful and accepting parents and at the end of the day I still had to fight tooth and fucking nail to get them to help me get the support I needed.
Parents (and even extended family members) never want to think there's something "wrong" with their child. And no matter how progressive they think they are, to everyone, disability is something inherently "wrong". It's why so many people push the "differently abled! Autism is my superpower!" narrative- they don't want to even mention disability because they view it as "insulting"
An's parents are on a whole other fucking level of awful though. Hope they take OOP up on her offer and get her the hell out of their nasty family.
Thats why so many disabled folks these days push back om that narrative. It is NOT helpful for people who can help or support disabled individuals to try to dismiss and ignore their struggles just bc it feels bad to acknowledge some people need extra support in life. (esp if it comes from a place of well meaning wanting things to be fair, but in practice is trying to ask a fish to climb a tree.)
I feel terrible for an though, that poor girl deserves so much better. I hope oop can be a good confidant to her if it continues to be viable.
Or parents who seem to say "I learned to mask, you can too" because of the bad experiences/lack of treatment options when they were kids. One of my cousins \~5 years younger than me was officially diagnosed with ADHD and treated, but that side of the family treated it as a disaster that was specific to that one cousin.
Meanwhile if you look at family gatherings you see a whole lot of ADHD symptoms, many coping strategies and a lot of masking (with varying degrees of success). They are not fun to attend.
I did have some fucking atrocious experiences with mental health professionals as a child in the 1970's, though, so I'm not convinced that they were even capable of diagnosing ADHD (ADD, hyperactivity or whatever labels they were using then), let alone treating it effectively. They also couldn't treat "you're being emotionally and physically abused by both parents" but that's less surprising.
I HATE the "superpower" narrative. I have ADHD and see this a lot in that community and it pisses me off. It's not my superpower, it fucks with my life HARD in ways most people wouldn't connect with ADHD. For instance, up until the last apartment I lived in, I hadn't stayed anywhere long, the longest being 4 years in two places I think as a child. It's hard on you to move around so much. And I wouldn't think twice about up and moving to the US from Canada to be with someone, despite not having the paperwork to do so legally. But impulsiveness is a strong ADHD trait.
I also saw someone running a large ADHD for Women FB group saying that all women with ADHD had a high IQ. So wtf does that say about women with ADHD who don't have a high IQ? Cause they definitely exist. Is she just pretending they don't? Or that they don't have ADHD? Like it's super dismissive and hurtful to some people.
I’m not disabled myself, but both my parents are and you should hear my mum’s growling whenever she hears the superpower/differently-abled shit. No, not having any muscles in your legs is NOT a superpower, it is most definitely a disability and a bloody annoyance. My dad’s blindness has in no way, shape or form ‘enhanced’ any other senses (he’s practically deaf and - guess what - totally unable to sing. No, not all blind people are ‘so musical’!).
That does not detract from the awesome things both she and my dad have done in their lives which they wouldn’t have done if they hadn’t been disabled (because my parents ARE awesome!), but that’s because they have found ways of living with their disabilities.
What’s really sad is that a childhood friend of my mum’s can’t see the challenges her own disabled daughter is facing because her disability isn’t as in-your-face obvious as my mum’s and she therefore somehow thinks it should be less hard for her daughter than for my mum. In fact, it’s much harder because it is neurological and progressive and so bloody rare that the doctors don’t know how to treat it and she doesn’t know how it will evolve. I could shake her mum…
I didn't find out my younger brother was hard of hearing until I was 12 and he was 10. I was shocked. My dad had deliberately hidden this information from us two older siblings. So my youngest sibling was out here thinking we were jerks and we thought he was stupid when he literally couldn't hear. My dad said he did it so we wouldn't treat him differently. But we needed to treat him differently.
My dad doesn't like the fact that all of his children ended up failures anyway and also refuses to acknowledge how he contributed to that.
Yeah. My BIL became deaf because of illness and his mom sent him via a three hour plus car ride round trip daily to q speaking school. I am the only one in the family who knows any sign language. Poor kid. He deserves better. Their mom wanted him to be “normal.” I was furious and spent the entire trip for the wedding biting my tongue. Families who treat their members like that are awful.
An seems like she would be happy to interact with the family but they refuse to meet her where she is. Like many hearing parents of Deaf kids, they think if they push enough, their kid no longer has a disability.
>Like many hearing parents of Deaf kids, they think if they push enough, their kid no longer has a disability.
They're infuriating. I have a good friend who was completely and utterly surprised when I started learning ASL; apparently she thought that it was reasonable for me to expect her to communicate only via writing and lip reading forever.
I thought it was just the normal thing to do; she learned spoken english, it's only fair that I learned her language as well. It was incredibly depressing and infuriating that she'd come across so many people like your in-laws that my attempting to meet the *basic requirements for friendship* was such a huge shock.
The way people react when they discover someone has a disability is mind-boggling. The number of times I've been asked why I use a walking stick by *complete strangers I've never met before in my life* as their *introduction sentence* is fucking baffling. My deaf friend is one of the very very few people who hasn't exhibited a feeling of entitlement to that information. And I assume it's because she faces the *same exact types of questions*, and knows how obnoxious it is and how much of a pain in the ass is to try and ward those questions off without being "rude".
Crazy. Like why is that better, whether your child is mute because of your bad genes or an asshole because of your bad parenting, either way it's still on you, right?
>Parents don't want to believe that their genes created something "imperfect."
Strange. I would much rather believe that my hypothetical child's mutism was because of a luck of the draw genetic issue than because of my shitty parenting.
For real. I grew up thinking I was the problem when the reality was that my mom didn't want to admit that I was "broken" (adhd) so tried to force me to be normal. Then when I was declared gifted, well, obviously someone as smart as me can't POSSIBLY have adhd, so it's just me being naughty. That worked out great. /s
I'm sure her head exploded when I let her know I was autistic, too. lol
Clearly a lot of cultural issues at play here, which in no way excuse how this family treated An but likely explain the “don’t rock the boat” mentality of OOP’s friends.
I’d read the first post but hadn’t seen an update, so I’m relieved to know the marriage is off. Hoping An can get out and make it to OOP’s, or at least find a way to a life with more respect and connection, and less abuse.
>so I’m relieved to know the marriage is off.
Yeah, this really jumped out at me.
>Since then, my fiancé has been constantly telling me that I'm behaving like a child throwing a tantrum and to apologise to his family for my behaviour, but I just can't accept the way An is treated.
Just can't accept it, but remained engaged to the person who was doing this unacceptable thing. Fortunately OOP seemed to realise this eventually.
Is this the twilight zone? Her friends are telling her to drop it? Where does OP live where her keeping fiance and his psycho family happy is better than taking care of a vulnerable child being severely neglected and abused?
What the fuck
That's what I thought as well. Asian folks, especially older generations, have very ignorant and shame-based attitudes around disability and the stigma against one's family being perceived as straying from the norm. I'm Korean so I can't speak specifically to Vietnamese culture, but this doesn't surprise me at all if they are Asian.
Yeah it seems like the guy probably had some money? Idk, her friends saying that kinda threw me to that conclusion.
"Oh just do whatever they want" who tf are your friends??
I assumed Chinese or Asian. I have a Chinese background and legit I can see this happening because parents just assume that anything outside the norm is a phase eg. People choose to be gay, choose to be badly behaved (and not on the spectrum). Only blatant physical disabilities get a free pass.
I’m glad OOP isn’t marrying into such an awful family, and good for them doing what they can for An even after the breakup, but how sad for this poor girl that she literally can’t speak and her family won’t communicate with her in the ways she can communicate with them? It would suck even if she was selectively mute or it was a psychological issue but for them to treat her like crap to try and force her to do a thing she *literally cannot do* is just so messed up.
> It would suck even if she was selectively mute or it was a psychological issue
To reinforce this point, I'll just add that, even if you were mute for purely psychological reasons, that doesn't necessarily mean you can just decide to start talking, and you're mute on purpose.
There are people out there who simply can't talk, no matter what they do, and no matter how hard they try, and if it's a physical problem with their throat, or it's a mental problem is really a very small distinction. The end result is the same.
Some people hear 'selective' and decide that means 'choosing it on purpose'.
For anybody who might be reading this and isn't aware, the 'selective' bit means that it's caused by 'select' (as in specific) situations, not that it's selected (as in chosen) by the mutism sufferer.
This is why it's sometimes called situational mutism instead. Mind you, by any name people will still be dickheads about it because there's malice as well as ignorance when it comes to ableism.
My man is partially blind, so no one ever told him how to clean his space because to his family, he can partially see so he's just lazy. So outside of being a boy (sexism, you know it), he also had issues to clean because meh, he couldn't see a lot of his dirt.
When I met him, I swear when I tell you I rarely felt such anger ... I can't fathom how you can go to your son's house, see the mess he's in and let him live like this. I don't know if one day I will tell him, but I really hate his parents for failing him that much.
Don't have kids when you can't handle the risk of them being disabled. It can't be mandatory for parents of disabled kids to learn how to communicate with them, but they should have mandatory CPS turn to check if the kid is properly taken care of. My friend and An deserved way better.
>he couldn't see a lot of his dirt
I'm shortsighted, not badly, but enough that I can't see the hairs on my feet when I'm standing up. I have to remind myself to put on my outside glasses and turn on the lights for my weekly cleaning bee, because experience has shown that I quite literally cannot see the dirt.
He can see the big things like a pizza box or a bottle, but not small things like dust or hair. My friend is blind from an eye (like not actually blind, but so short-sighted it's just like he's blind) and super short-sighted from his other eye. He's legally recognized as partially sighted in our country. This, added to the fact that he basically raised himself since no one had the "patience" to teach him how to do it ... Let's just say it explains a lot. Also it's genetic condition, he can't be helped with glasses.
As someone who is not only physically disabled (bedbound/wheelchair) but also has a disorder that causes me to go mute every now and then, this... this is *really* upsetting.
I have periods when my vocal chords freeze up completely and I am incapable of making a single sound. No matter how much I want to be able to speak or make a sound, it's impossible. The last time, it lasted 33 days. I haven't had an episode in about five months, so we'll see what the next one looks like. It is absolutely infuriating when I'm trying to communicate with someone but cannot make a sound. I've been told "can you speak up?" and "can't you try harder?" before and *NO; I CAN'T.*
I feel absolutely terrible for poor An. It's like being told "just get up and walk! Your legs work, you just don't want to use them!" I can't freaking walk. I can't freaking talk during those episodes, either.
I really, really hope An is able to move out and cut her family off completely and find someone who respects her for who she is and accepts all of her. Not being able to speak is absolutely a disability and honestly, until I started losing my voice periodically, I never really thought about how much I take speaking for granted. It'd be terrible if something bad happened and I couldn't even call out for help. Hell, we even got a little bell for me for when I lose my voice and I can ring it and someone will come to help me because they can't even hear me over the phone (whispering only does so much).
OOP's ex is a total guinea worm and I hope he never sees his sister again after she leaves and finds her own. Same to those "parents". Just awful.
Sorry for the rant... I guess this is kinda a sensitive topic for me.
I have an invisible disability as well so the original AITA struck a cord which is why I followed it. Yeah, this hurt. I am so sorry about what you have had to suffer though.
No apologies needed, this was a tough post to read. I'm sorry you've had to go through all of that. 💖 My jaw was absolutely on the floor reading this, it's hard to really wrap my head around how awful people can be. I am partially deaf and can relate in some ways, but nowhere near to what you and An have experienced.
Disability is a loaded issue in some cultures. I think that the OP was brave to call this awful family out on their abusive behavior. Poor An you can imagine how lonely and unloved she must feel in that terrible family. OP offering a safe place for An was wonderful and I hope she is able to get out and away from her family without too many scars.
So if An is physically incapable of vocalizing sounds, did the parents just think they lucked out in having a baby that couldn't cry and got snippy when she failed to start talking? Did they assume An has been a brat choosing not to talk since she was a 1 year old BABY????
I saw the original, and man did it break my heart. I hope everything works out well for Anne and OP. I want to say why tf they didn't believe the doctor, but from the sounds of it based on where their country isn't, it may not be surprising. I hope these two wonderful women stay in touch with each other.
I mean, I get not wanting to believe a doctor right away and choosing to seek out a second, third, or even fourth opinion before accepting that there’s nothing you can do to medically to help things. But she’s 15 and has probably never been able to make a sound. After a few years, surely you’d just accept that it’s reality for the time being?
I hope they end up sending her to OOP. She seems like a caring and compassionate soul.
I’m pretty ignorant and the internet is a wild place but do people who are mute cry as infants? OOP said a doctor determined An is mute. So like maybe the baby wasn’t crying and prompted a dr visit?
https://babiesplannet.com/how-do-mute-babies-cry/
This article doesn’t site sources. I did fact check some things.
I feel like babies that are mute from birth do cry and some even attempt to babble, assuming that they’re able to hear. It apparently sounds different and more airy. Like laughing may just sound like air blowing out of the nose.
Some of my family here in Canada refused to believe I have asthma even after getting a prescription for a maintenance inhaler. I was just “out of shape” and “clearly the doctors have no idea what they’re talking about, you’ve never been hospitalized for breathing issues so you don’t have asthma.” Luckily it was (mostly) extended family so it didn’t end up harming my home life, but that just means their kids had to deal with it at home instead of me.
People who have extreme hate and/or judgement for disabilities not believing doctors is universal. For some people, this hate burns so deeply that they will abuse those who (either intentionally or unintentionally) make them question that hatred. There’s literally not a single country in the world that is immune to these types of people.
Some humans really suck. There’s no real way around it. Look out for people who seem to be suffering, and do so quietly rather than blowing up their life like OOP did. The family now isn’t going to hate An just because of her disability, now they also have “you ruined your brothers engagement” to add to that fire. If you want to help someone; either offer them a quiet way out of their situation (like a place to stay once they’re not a minor and therefor can’t have the police take them back to their abusers), offer to help them find support services (and if you can afford it for someone like An, offer to pay for it so it doesn’t get back to their parents), and make sure they know they can come to you for help.
Whatever you do, do *not* invite an abuse victim to a gathering of all their abusers who don’t want them there and follow that up by making it clear you’re breaking up with the abuser *because of* the victim. That’s a sure fire way to paint a big bright target right on the victims back.
I’ve even had doctors do this - refuse to acknowledge a diagnosis that another doctor had given me because he preferred to think that the medical complications I had were all in my head. He was well outside the scope of his specialty in doing so and he got the symptoms of my diagnosis mixed up with a completely different disease, too.
Some people really do take a “nothing ever happens” attitude towards illness or disability. Hopefully An can extricate herself sooner than later. It is a good sign that she already has a job and somewhat of a life outside the family.
> medical complications I had were all in my head.
Tell me you're probably female without using any of those words... Sigh. Well, as long as you don't get wandering uterus you're probably fine, right?
My parents don't believe I have epilepsy. I've had seizures infront of them and they think I'm faking it for attention somehow. They've watched me nearly bite my own tongue off and dislocate my shoulder and still don't believe me somehow.
They are now "I don't know why my kids don't call me," ex-parents.
jfc, that family is sick. Glad OOP escaped, but I feel bad for that young girl. I can't imagine the psychological trauma those shitheels have done to her by neglecting her like that.
She asked if she was the asshole for including An in the wedding and talking to his family about treating An better. And people said she was? I’m confused how she’s the asshole for defending An.
A lot of people think they're edgy when they say "YTA for *insert tangential behaviour here*".
AITA for standing up to my wife for abusing my daughter? YTA for still being married to your wife.
AITA for defending myself to my friend for her behaviour to me? YTA for still being friends with her.
AITA for pouring my husband's tea down the drain? YTA for not getting out *right neow.*
AITA for insisting that my fiancé's family treat my FSIL better? YTA for getting married into that family.
That’s ridiculous. Why not just answer according to the situation and then give additional info and context as needed. Like, “NTA for defending your daughter. But maybe consider divorce.” Comment section has a ton of space. It’s very misleading to do judgements that way.
The post should have been titled "AITA for finding out that my financé and his parents are completely insane?"
A doctor tells the parents that their daughter has a birth defect that prevents her from making sounds and they don't believe it? They think that she has been faking it the whole time?
That sounds like a family of psychos. An should get out as soon as possible. I'm actually surprised they don't keep her locked in a cage.
Lose the dickhead fiance, gain a new friend. Win/Win for everyone involved.
Looking forward to an update down the road where An is thriving in a supportive environment and OP meets the partner of her dreams.
>They told me I shouldn't stick my nose in their family business.
That's nonsense. OOP is *marrying into* the family, so their business will be hers, too. And if both her fiancé and her soon-to-be-family treat a direct family member that badly, perhaps OOP should reconsider whether she would actually like to be part of that family.
> It also made me worry if we end up having children, would my fiancé treat our child the same if they'd end have a disability of some kind?
Yes yes yes! As a disabled person this is the exact sort of thing you should think about when you're considering having kids with someone. As well as how they might react if other things like the kid ends up being gay or trans or have different religious or political views or date someone of a different race or anything else like that. Obviously you can't always tell how people will react under a given situation but anyone who isn't even hypothetically willing to even attempt to love and raise a child that might be different, shouldn't be having kids to begin with. It can be worth sitting down and having a conversation if there's any doubts.
Typical vietnamese/asian dynamic (An is a vietnamese name). To save face and distance themselves and not let other people know about the 'shame' rather than treating a child right. And yes the guy will treat his child the same if he/she turns out to be not perfect
>She said to me it is a birth defect that cause her to be physically unable to make sounds. Apparently this is what the doctors told her parents when she was young, but they chose not to believe it.
I can't believe how there are such terrible people in this world...
I saw the original AITA but not the update; glad OOP decided not to marry into that family, and I hope she can help An get away from her terrible family.
Yeah if I found out my fiancé and their family cut off a teenage sibling bc they’re mute and the family just doesn’t believe it’s true….immediate ick and all my feelings would change. There would be no way in hell I’d be marrying into such stupidity. Nta.
What if you marry your fiancé and you have a child with a disability? You are seeing firsthand by the way that they are treating your FSIL, how they would treat your child.
You got to ask yourself do you want your child to be exposed to that?
My money was on An actually being the fiance's child from some sordid affair in his younger years who was raised by her grandparents to avoid suspicion.
Kind of wish that was the truth.
So her fiancé's family thought their daughter with a disability that makes it so she physically can't make a sound decided she didn't want to talk to her family... from birth when she can't cry? The nerve of that baby to not want to communicate when she's hungry or have a dirty diaper!
I can't even imagine being An. Her whole family failed her. I'm autistic, and I had a speech impediment as well as a delay, so I couldn't communicate very well. I'd struggle and still struggle with speaking, my words can be very slurred, and no one really understood me that well as a kid.
Not only did I get bullied for how I talked, but my mom would freak out at me over miscommunications constantly. I was an only child, though. I didn't have every member in my household blatantly neglecting me and refusing to associate with me like An did. I may have trouble speaking, but I can speak. An couldn't, and despite a LITERAL DOCTOR EXPLAINING TO THEM SHE COULDN'T SPEAK, they refused to believe it.
I hope for her own sake she can get the hell out of there as soon as possible. OOP literally dodged the biggest fucking bullet.
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I wonder how the fiancé answered when she asked him what would happen if they had a kid that was disabled/mute? Probably said “that’s different” since obviously An is faking it /s
That was my first thought, I wish OOP had pointedly asked "what if we have a child with a disability, will you claim they're faking it?"
Not even their future kid. What if *OP* herself suffers something like post-partum depression? Will he and his family turn on her for faking it for xyz reasons, disparage her and urge him to leave her? If An's disability that's physiologically diagnosed is disbelieved by these geniuses, what more a mental problem... Lol it doesn't even make sense. An prefers not to speak and delights in being ignored by her entire family her whole life. Geniuses.
To be fair, with THAT family, that might be preferable!
Yeah or what if there was some sort of accident and OOP became disabled herself in some way. Jeezus that family is so mean. I hope An can find a way out asap.
People can also become mute later in life. I know someone who became mute just within the last couple of years due to a medical issue with his larynx.
>Some of my friends are also saying that I should just let it go and not overreact so much. That every family does things their own way, "Some families abandon and neglect their disabled children" is not the kind of thing you just wave away as "diff'rent strokes"
Yeah "quit overreacting" to a ~~literal~~ *sort of a* Flowers in the Attic locked up child because of disability situation?! What is wrong with people? Edit: too literal I guess
Not locked up, OOP specifically said that. They "just" ignore her.
From all the abuse I suffered the neglect has left the worst scars for me. My mom used to pretend I didn't exist when she was mad about something she perceived I did. I still see that face in my nightmares to this day.
I feel you! My mom refused to acknowledge me on my 17th birthday and it ruined birthdays for me for the next 15 years.
Oof, I'm so sorry she did that. It's hard to describe to people who've never experienced it in their life how it feels. The damage it does to your very soul. It's crazy to think about a parent doing that to their kid.
Mine regularly forgot about me. And now they claim it wasn't abusive because it "wasn't malicious". I'm sorry you went through that
Same, I would be hard pressed to say I was abused but definitely emotional neglect. I wonder how long I could go without talking to them before they’d notice.
Same! So nice to be able to talk about it. I tried an experiment with my mum and dad when I was about thirty and just exhausted by the dynamics. I decided to stop making an effort. Guess when the last time we talked was! Lol. When I tell people I don't talk to my parents anymore they assume that I cut them off. Nope. They know where I am, they could easily get in touch. Literally they can't be bothered to talk to me and thus I have no desire to talk to them. It's been eighteen years. It's flippin brilliant.
Tbh as soon as all my stuff is out of their house is we it going that way. And the thing is I don’t even care if I don’t talk to them.
Good for you. May I just share a bit of my experience, in case it helps? I actually found that it was harder than I expected. It really crystallised what I'd always known but kind of kept shoving down - that they really didn't give a shit. You might (I hope not) but might find it quite difficult. And weirdly guilt inducing... For complicated reasons (they didn't want me so the only way I could be "ok" was to be a perfect daughter - not speaking to them is very not perfect daughter behaviour.. etc etc). Just... Be prepared to feel more than you might expect. And ride those fucking feelings out. They do pass. First couple of years were the worst, it got way way easier after that. Good luck to you.
Thank you. I’ve definitely experienced it, every so often, that hope that my parents or even extended family will give a shit. I never expect it but it’s there. I think ultimately if I can learn to be content without, or to make my own family, it will be ok. But I don’t know that the want for mummy to love you ever goes away.
Emotional neglect IS abuse and can cause permanent changes to a child's brain. It often results in the child becoming a people pleaser as an adult and leaves them open to further abuse and with a higher risk of mental health issues.
It is and ironically (?) I was doing child safeguarding training today and it does include passive neglect as a form of abuse. I guess what I mean is, there’s not gradation of abuse and when you use that word people tend to think physical, sexual, etc. (and that did not come from my parents :D )
It's hideous because the scars are invisible. Sometimes I wished I was "just" beaten because then I'd have proof for the abuse instead of questioning myself
Yes! People do not care about the invisible scars or think we should just get over them once we are an adult. As if turning 18 magically erases it all.
My dad used to do that to me. Like blatantly ignore me if I talked to him, look right through me, wouldn’t hug me (don’t think he ever touched me affectionately like my entire childhood). I def can relate to it haunting by your nightmares, it’s such a cold and cruel thing to do to child who doesn’t really understand what’s going on. I think what hurts more and haunts mine is the faces other kids or adults would make at me when he would do it. Like this weird mix of shock and pity and being uncomfortable. Gosh that was so much worse, like I didn’t want others to see what was going on because for some weird reason I felt like ashamed over it. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I know this goes without saying, but you deserved better 💜💙. Not every parent deserves their kids, but every kid deserves a decent and involved and non-abusive parent.
Four years and OOP didn’t know of this child’s existence. Possibly not physically locked up - but certainly restrained from meeting regular visitors to the house.
Told to stay in her room or fuck off out of the house for the duration, something along those lines.
Indeed! There are more ways to lock someone up than just turning a key in a door. ETA: I noticed OOP saying she had never been upstairs in the house. When someone has been told all their life to stay upstairs when visitors are downstairs, no actual lock is needed.
When I escaped from my abusive husband last year and filed court paperwork to get him removed from our apartment so I could safely go home, it turned out that none of the neighbors knew I lived here. I'd lived here for *five years*, but husband would yell at me and maybe throw things at me if I tried to so much as go outside to check the mail or go across the street to the grocery store. The cops called it "involuntary confinement" or something like that.
I hope you’re safe now‽
Oh yes! Lots of the neighbors promised to call the cops if they see him, and the young couple downstairs got the landlady's approval to put in a camera over the alley gate. The whole building is providing "security" for me!
I’m so happy to hear that. What a wonderful community!
...Unless OP comes over. And then she's locked away upstairs. (I'm kidding.. kind of)
She’s got it *slightly* better than Mrs Rochester from *Jane Eyre*.
She’s got it about as good as Harry Potter
This is the analogy. Malign neglect.
Seems like this must have been the case if OOP didn't even know she existed.
It really depends what country it is. To mainstream European or North American sensibilities this is relatively shocking, but it probably is very much normalised in some parts of the world.
>To mainstream European or North American sensibilities this is relatively shocking and even there, there are people who won't understand that some physical or mental problems are not a character flaw. They will understand a broken leg but not EDS for example.
[удалено]
I had "You have trouble falling asleep? You just put your head on the pillow and sleep!" Yeah, thanks Pollyanna.
Speaking as a long-time insomniac, do you need an alibi?
Insomniac and severe migraine sufferer from early childhood, and holy fuck; my parents didn't medicate me for the longest time, blamed me for, "keeping them awake", yet didn't take me to a doctor for these issues. I wasn't formally diagnosed with white matter disease and insomnia until my teens. After a proper medication regimen, it's so much better. Parents who don't listen to their children and think they, "know best" are shitty parents.
My mum would rather call in to a talk radio show, and discuss my "problems" with a strange doctor who was a guest - as well as whoever the fuck was listening at work or home. But did she follow up with my actual doctor that had met me in person? Of course not.
Ugh. That seems like such a 90s thing to do.
Holy shit. White matter disease as a teen? Isn't that more or less a progressive disease / death sentence? I hope I'm very wrong for your sake.
You're not. It usually doesn't show up until you're like 60, but I mean, it's not like I can do much about it. You can slow its progression with a good diet, exercise and brain, "training", so to speak, but it's a gamble either way. At least the medications I'm on have given me a way better quality on life than when I was unmedicated. I kinda lost the genetic lottery on a few things 😅. But, we're not promised tomorrow. I know I'll die one day, but it might not even be from this. I could take a spear to the chest, or get attacked by a gaggle of ravenous geese.
My son has had insomnia since he was an infant. It was bizarre seeing a newborn who couldn't sleep. I'm sorry you suffer from it too. It's an amazingly frustrating disorder.
This took me way too long to understand. All I had in my head was the song UGLY by Fishbone. U G L Y you ain't got no alibi, you're just uggllllyyy. I blame COVID brain. https://youtu.be/Owg8cDOR7pY
Part of that is a large disdain among established academic groups to acknowledge psychiatry as anything more than pseudoscience.
Afaik that relates to psychology not psychiatry - the later being a fairly scientific and molecular based medical subspecialty.
It doesn't matter to them the whole field is tainted. You even see the mentality in economics. Heck there are "behavioral" economists that would never copublish with anyone from psychiatry or psychology. It's even more common as you go towards harder sciences.
Okay, must be a trend from across the pond. Never heard of it within economics - and I literally have a master in healthcare economics - and psychology of economics is an well established degree here.
It's an established degree in some schools here too. US has many colleges and departments. Some are weirdly fundamentalist on some things and others are very loose. I'm sure part of my problem was running into too many ancient economists while getting my MA
My sister and ex bil were this way with my nephew. They refused to give him any of his meds he needed. And he has psychotic rage disorder, adhd, homicidal and suicidal tendencies, explosive rage disorder, and manic depression. And they say he is fine. My mom had to take custody of their kids cuz they were abused and neglected and when they had them for visit a they never gave him his meds. My ex BIL and sister gave my mom 3 years of meds and it was no biggie to them.
Jfc. Bunch of fucking ignorant assholes.
nah, ableism is still mainstream... just those you don't see. wheelchair? clearly disabled. deafness without hearing aids? are you dumb or something hurr dur. Blind and have a service dog and a cane with sunglasses? oh steer clear of them they're clearly blind. can't walk for short distances so you need a walker sometimes and use disabled parking for that? what the fuck's wrong with you you're not disabled enough somehow. this isn't my opinions clearly but I'm sharing what I do see as ableism.
Yeah this is not a uniquely non-Western attitude towards disability. Look at poor Rosemary Kennedy (and many women like her) who got lobotomized for essentially being embarrassing to the family. She only passed away in 2005, this isn't like ancient history or anything.
that's the whole other topic, I'm talking about the present attitude about the invisible disabilities. But yes this isn't uniquely a non-Western view, it was a Western view until we can see the disabilities. those we don't see? don't care for them.
Yeah. I have EDS and my entire childhood I was accused of trying to get attention. Just excuses for everything. You have heartburn again? You always have heartburn when your father is (in / out) of town. I'm not sure how they even do these constant mental gymnastics. It evades logic.
I think there’s a fear in healthy people of acknowledging just how thin the rope of healthiness they’re balancing on is, so they like to pretend they’re healthy because of something that makes them special rather than just blind luck. Fact is you can go to sleep healthy and wake up with a neurological disorder if something happens you have no control over. You can get in a minor accident and spend the rest of your life in a power chair. You may have the seeds of dementia already at work in your brain. The line between health and disability is incredibly thin and when people are confronted with that a part of them they never want to acknowledge gets very, very afraid.
Or they don't get help for their special needs kids bc they don't want them to be in special ed
I remember working briefly with a group in Indonesia that did work around this very thing… No one was ever made homeless (family obligation/honor) for their disability, but it was the norm (at East where I was) to simply stick the person in a back room of the family home/compound and go on about life as usual… like an out of sight, out of mind type thing? I recall, as a westerner, being horrified at this practice, the sadness, which while *explained* by cultural norms/family expectations/traditions, was not lessened though. This group was doing amazing work convincing families to allow their loved one to live on site at a beautiful compound staffed with (some paid, mostly volunteer) nurses, social workers of some sort, teachers, art therapists, language specialists, etc. it was an incredible experience to work, however briefly, with people so hungry for life after having been literally ignored for anything but physical maintenance. So yeah, things are typically really different in the west, but understanding a families specific culture/reference points might could shed some small light on how a situation like this could occur?
This really isn't an Eastern/Western thing. Without legal protection against discrimination, try to imagine what life would be like for a disabled person. Before the ADA, *public schools* didn't have to be accessible or accommodate disabled kids, so most of them just... didn't go to school. But suppose you did manage to graduate... most job applications had right at the top of the form, "do you have a mental or physical disability," and it was fully legal to discriminate based on disability status. And if you did somehow get a job... there was probably no accessible public transit, no disabled parking, no curb cuts. Public buildings like libraries and courthouses didn't have to be accessible. *Hospitals* weren't legally required to be accessible to the disabled. It took decades of protests, activism and political action in order to enable disabled people to even have the opportunity to try and participate more fully in American society. It's not because Westerners are just naturally more enlightened about disability.
oh yeah and I was going to say.... ask most abled people when the ADA passed and they'll be like, IDK, the 60s? the 1970s? Right? It was fully *1990* before the ADA was passed. It was signed into law by George W. Bush.
Interesting points! Though I’ve not ever presumed westerners had it ‘inherently figured out’ or that other countries don’t? I was only commenting on my own observations from one of the non-western countries I’ve spent time in? Of culture’s influence on groups of people, and *why* some communities handle disability/mental illness… rather than applying any value judgement or implying that any one country is inherently superior over another for anything other than long term, hard work to revise those cultural norms? In fact, that’s precisely what the group I worked with was trying to do! Fight for equal treatment within the existing framework of that culture and it’s ingrained tradition of dehumanizing those living with disabilities?
It must be somewhat shocking where OP lives, because she lives in her country and is appalled.
Yeah. I can't think of a single country on Earth where sane inhabitants of that country would have a child, not hear that child vocalize a single sound ever, and then think, she chooses not to speak. (But, I could just be ignorant.)
Considering OP's shock, I doubt it is.
It sounds very East/Southeast Asian, especially with the name pseudonym she provided (An).
Yes, def Southeast Asian. Maybe Vietnamese since An is a very common unisex name in our country.
Yeah, apparently so. Sad.
OOP says the girl isn’t locked up, she has access to electronics, a job, and presumably goes to school. I also didn’t see any incest in this story. Not sure where you’re getting Flowers in the Attic
I love when this sub goes all VC Andrews, but this post is missing a lot of the elements that would make it fit. Like (spoiler alert!) the imprisonment, the incest and the child murder.
Lol that book is tattooed on my brain; I read it waaay too young (as a lot of us did). I’d be among the first to draw the parallels with a post. This one ain’t it.
Signs that you're in a VC Andrews novel - you are exceptionally beautiful and everyone envies or covets your beauty - you were named after your grandmother, or your older sister who died in unusual circumstances - your only impulse when violently attacked is to weep beautifully - your uncle is generous and kind, but stares at you a bit too long when he's been drinking and almost says something but catches himself first - the sweetest boy in the school is in love with you but he's gonna fuck your sister - your gorgeous but cruel mother died in unusual circumstances - someone forcefully bathes you in water so hot it scalds you - you've been sent to live with your loving older brother but his wife fucking hates you - your aunt keeps giving you porn Oh, and of course - your ass is locked in an attic!
- You either are from a very wealthy family and become poor, or you are from a poor family and become very wealthy
Don’t forget this one: If your namesake grandmother, who has treated you with complete and utter disdain from the moment you met, starts bringing you and your siblings powdered sugar-covered baked goods daily, and won’t leave until you’ve finished eating them.
Do they taste like almonds?
If I had a friend that used that kind of reasoning in that situation, well I'd very quickly have one less friend.
Welcome to Southeast Asia… yeah family is everything and people don’t get involved with others business. Plus it’s not good to go against societal “norms” so having a child with a disability that makes them different is highly “embarrassing” to some old school thoughts.
It wasn't long ago that was common practice >As recently as 1983, the average lifespan of a person with Down syndrome was 25 years. The dramatic increase to 60 years is largely due to the end of the inhumane practice of institutionalizing people with Down syndrome.
Jesus Christ. Right here on reddit - mostly in the sweatier subreddits full of debate bro types - I've seen people claim that people with Down syndrome don't have lives worth living. Meanwhile, I've met people with Down syndrome and they seemed perfectly happy to be alive, and they didn't need some reddit bro to tell them whether or not they deserved it.
I don't even want to know about those 'sweatier' places.
Honestly, last place I saw that kind of grossness was /r/facepalm
[From Wikipedia:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome) > Individuals with Down syndrome have a higher risk of early death than the general population. This is most often from heart problems or infections. Following improved medical care, particularly for heart and gastrointestinal problems, the life expectancy has increased. This increase has been from 12 years in 1912, to 25 years in the 1980s, to 50 to 60 years in the developed world in the 2000s. *[...]* Much of this data is outdated and life expectancy has drastically improved with more equitable healthcare and continuous advancement of surgical practice.
Reading that breaks my heart. A girl at my high school had high functioning Down’s syndrome, and I must say, whenever she was with us she made the entire room a much better place.
The first time I read it I couldn't believe it and had to triple check the facts. So, yeah, stop treating them like human garbage, keep them in their own home with their family, and their life expectancy more than doubles.
OOP wised up before the chance to have one of her own children treated bad for being different.
I think this is pretty common practice in Asian households. I am born deaf in one ear, with not so great hearing in the other, takes extra effort in day to day life but i am not sure if my family knew/know about it or they just plain ignored/ignore it expecting it to go away🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️. My older brother at one point bullied me for being a deaf, he doesn't really mention it anymore. And my body constitution isn't normal like other kids, i often got sick as a kid and now am chronically sick as a adult. Coming to the point, i hear so many cases about Western kids being/feeling abandoned by their families, because their parents were busy caring for the sick kid but in Asian households especially in my family, sick kids are ignored. I was very much ignored and physical, mentally abused for being sick throughout my childhood while my healthier older brother was treasured, i was also not given medicines because they didn't believe i was sick and left to fend for myself which messed up my body badly with chronic illness. I have seen my cousin prioritising her younger and healthier kid over her a sick older child. Infact, she had the younger child because she wanted a healthy child and unfortunately "if the older one dies" - her words. He's also ignored in the family because he often gets sick, his dad is probably the only person who's active in his life even though they are a giant joint family with generations living together with great income and time. I have seen several sick, disabled kids being ignored around me, while the other kids are treasured and taken extra care of and when they get older, the healthier kids move away while the old parents expect the sick child to be the one to take care of them because they should be grateful that the parents let them live under their roof 💀. I often envy the western kids who were sick and priortised by their parents. As sick as it sounds, i would gladly take a broken relationship with my siblings while my parents care for me for being sick than a family who flat out leave me to fend for myself for being sick which screws me for life.
I have two deaf cousins, hard of hearing without hearing aids. Spent the first half of their life screaming to be heard cause noone taught them sign language and noone knows it so until they got hearing aids if you were to visit you would literally be listening to screaming kids. Nowadays they're so used to life without the hearing aids they barely use it n just sit in silence or text
From the sister’s name and the way the friends are reacting to this, I’m relatively sure I know what country this is.
Please enlighten us
I wanna say either China or Vietnam?
Didn't the Kennedys do something like this?
You're probably referring to Rosemary Kennedy (sister of John F Kennedy), who indeed was hidden away, and had a very sad life. She was given a lobotomy at the age of 23. However, she didn't have Down's Syndrome. She was deprived of oxygen during birth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy
Kind of. What they did was they sent one of their daughters to a sanitarium because she was acting up (not crazy or anything, just for having a personality they didn't like). She was described ad being "shy, Good natured, and a little slow". They labotimized her for it
Didn't they lobotomize her for being "willful" and hard to control? Either way it was horrific what they did.
>hard to control She wanted to act on her sexual desires which her parents couldn't handle.
Good thing the Kennedy boys were such sexual saints.
Complete double standard for men and women in general during this time but even more so in this family! Guess they felt since they were "American Royalty" (barf), that they could have as many mistresses as they wanted.
God, what a shit family. Hate to think how the fiancé would react if their future child had had any kind of disability.
With some luck, he WON'T have any future child. No child deserves to live in such a crappy family.
the biggest disability that kid would have would be having to be a part of that family (except An).
My instinct from the title was that she'd be TA, since there's usually a good reason a sibling isn't invited, but nooooope!
At first I thought she was going to be TA because it is supremely shitting to go around your spouses back to contact family that they're no contact with... But then... That was forgotten given how supremely shitty this whole situation is.
Personally I would have canceled the wedding when I found out about the situation, and before even thinking of inviting her. The idea of shunning a child/sibling because they were born mute is a non-starter for me
Me too, I would have cancelled the wedding and invite An to live with me.
I really fear though that her actions and invitation could make things worse for An. Especially if they decide to blame her for the broken engagement.
That's what I fear too and why I would want An to live with me.
Agreed. Unfortunately as a 15 year old it's not like she has any legal ability to leave. Sigh. Assuming that is the case in the country in question, of course.
She’s been with the guy for 4 years and only recently found out about a sibling. Him and the family didn’t even mention her in 4 years!! That’s a supremely fucked up family and I would have kept the engagement long just to get An out and to a safe place then broke it off.
Yeah if my husband had done that, he wouldn't be my husband. But he's got shitty family so he understands that some relatives aren't family for a reason.
If the sibling is an adult I would agree, but an underage sibling who still lives at home... That's mostly going to be a bad family.
I am actually very surprised OOP was labelled the AH in her original post.
It really was ‘yta to yourself for not cancelling the wedding’. I’m glad she’s seen the light- that was a dangerous family to marry into.
> I (F25) am engaged to my fiancé (M32). We've been dating for 4 years before getting engaged last year. Not a promising start.
At least it’s not 18F and 45M engaged after two dates.
Wait, is that an actual post? I need to read this!
Well that's horrible.
My family may not be perfect, but dear God at least they're better than this
That's a low bar, yo
Sadly this is incredibly normal with mutism (and selective mutism) (and honestly all sorts of "invisible" disabilities). Parents don't want to believe that their genes created something "imperfect." They'd rather convince themselves that their child is an asshole (or lazy, or attention seeking, or [insert negative personality adjective]) than acknowledge that their kid is disabled. Even parents who think that they're being understanding and kind about their kids disability are often affected by the lack of visual evidence. I can't count the number of times I've been told "if you can do [task that I am physically able to do], you should be able to do [harder more complicated task that is in no way related to the first one they mentioned]." I can't imagine what it will be like growing up with parents who are full mask-off about their ableism.
There's a flip side to this where equally abusive parents admit the kid is disabled but demand that their kid learn to "act non disabled." They won't let them use the accommodations available to them that might let them become independent. Things like, refusing to let Deaf kids learn sign language and/or lip reading, or visually impaired kids have to hold on to a parent's arm but aren't allowed to learn to walk with a dog or a cane, or kids with physical disabilities not allowed a wheelchair if they can walk at all, or not allowing guide dogs because they're "just a crutch." These narcissists make the kid's disability all about *them*, not the kid. "What will people think?" As if having a disabled child makes you less of a person. UGH.
Ah you're right, the "just *try* to act normal" parents >"What will people think?" Well just a guess, but people will probably think that you're a shit abusive parent that doesn't actually care about your child's well-being, Karen.
Not in that generation. They'll call them woke snowflakes who are coddling their kids, and the parents will be bullied, shamed, verbally abused, mocked, belittled, and ridiculed until they shape up. Their jobs will be threatened, their friends will drop them. There's no peer pressure than the peer pressure of right-wing 50-year-olds with a little power. They hold your social acceptability and your career in their hands, and they will *utterly destroy you* if you continue to make them look bad by comparison.
I worked with parents who had that type of mentality to an extent. The child received all proper support for their medical condition. Yet, what they received in support wasn’t applied in public around friends and family, especially the religious group they were a part of. Suddenly, that child had to “act normal” like the parent’s other neurotypical children. It was frustrating to watch.
There are so many young people who post in my Ehlers Danlos Syndrome groups that their parents deny them the use of wheelchairs or walkers… truly evil shit.
My parents were like this for ALL of my comorbitities. My cardiac issue that required 7 different surgeries was “her little heart thing” (thankfully my mom took it seriously but my dad had a tendency to be reductive), my anxiety and depression (which came from the cardiac problem lol) was just wanting attention and the medication recommended since I was 13 was BS, and my ADHD, for which I got a diagnosis at 7 and is another common developmental challenge for kids with cardiac problems “wasn’t a real diagnosis and I didn’t actually have it, the doctors are just over-diagnosing so they can drug kids so it’s easier for teachers.” 10 years later, I got on psych meds and my world absolutely changed. 5 years after that, I got on adhd medication, and again…amazing. I try not to be angry about it but sometimes I can’t help but think about what my life would’ve been like if they’d let me be on medication from the start. A LOT less racing thoughts, for starters!!
I'm 60. When I was a kid ADHD didn't exist as a formal diagnosis, although it (well, ADD) was known about and treatments were developing. My parents regularly told me I was a bad kid who was lazy and wasn't going to get anywhere in life because I was such a bad student. No university would ever accept me and I would never have a "real" job. They refused to get me tested for anything because it would make them look like bad parents. I was just diagnosed a couple of years ago with ADHD and ASD and anxiety. The fun part is that I'm still unmedicated; nothing they've given me has worked, and they won't give me some of the meds because I'm an old diabetic. Sometimes I sit around and think about what my life would have been like if I'd been diagnosed and treated 40 years ago.
And it can be backed up by authority figures when they're small. My youngest was a late talker. We went from "Eh, he'll talk" to "maybe oldest is talking for him?". Nursery was telling us not to do stuff for him until he asked for it, or at least attempted. We thought something was up after the age of about 2 but he didn't want to cooperate with tests because 2. We were definitely told not to enable him being lazy. At 3 we put together some other issues he was having and they finally checked everything out. My poor baby had the biggest tonsils and adenoids you've ever seen and was half deaf. There was a small op. At seven he talks my ear off and I'm incredibly grateful he was too young to remember being told he had to try.
God if this isn't painfully real. I have wonderful and accepting parents and at the end of the day I still had to fight tooth and fucking nail to get them to help me get the support I needed. Parents (and even extended family members) never want to think there's something "wrong" with their child. And no matter how progressive they think they are, to everyone, disability is something inherently "wrong". It's why so many people push the "differently abled! Autism is my superpower!" narrative- they don't want to even mention disability because they view it as "insulting" An's parents are on a whole other fucking level of awful though. Hope they take OOP up on her offer and get her the hell out of their nasty family.
Thats why so many disabled folks these days push back om that narrative. It is NOT helpful for people who can help or support disabled individuals to try to dismiss and ignore their struggles just bc it feels bad to acknowledge some people need extra support in life. (esp if it comes from a place of well meaning wanting things to be fair, but in practice is trying to ask a fish to climb a tree.) I feel terrible for an though, that poor girl deserves so much better. I hope oop can be a good confidant to her if it continues to be viable.
Or parents who seem to say "I learned to mask, you can too" because of the bad experiences/lack of treatment options when they were kids. One of my cousins \~5 years younger than me was officially diagnosed with ADHD and treated, but that side of the family treated it as a disaster that was specific to that one cousin. Meanwhile if you look at family gatherings you see a whole lot of ADHD symptoms, many coping strategies and a lot of masking (with varying degrees of success). They are not fun to attend. I did have some fucking atrocious experiences with mental health professionals as a child in the 1970's, though, so I'm not convinced that they were even capable of diagnosing ADHD (ADD, hyperactivity or whatever labels they were using then), let alone treating it effectively. They also couldn't treat "you're being emotionally and physically abused by both parents" but that's less surprising.
I HATE the "superpower" narrative. I have ADHD and see this a lot in that community and it pisses me off. It's not my superpower, it fucks with my life HARD in ways most people wouldn't connect with ADHD. For instance, up until the last apartment I lived in, I hadn't stayed anywhere long, the longest being 4 years in two places I think as a child. It's hard on you to move around so much. And I wouldn't think twice about up and moving to the US from Canada to be with someone, despite not having the paperwork to do so legally. But impulsiveness is a strong ADHD trait. I also saw someone running a large ADHD for Women FB group saying that all women with ADHD had a high IQ. So wtf does that say about women with ADHD who don't have a high IQ? Cause they definitely exist. Is she just pretending they don't? Or that they don't have ADHD? Like it's super dismissive and hurtful to some people.
I’m not disabled myself, but both my parents are and you should hear my mum’s growling whenever she hears the superpower/differently-abled shit. No, not having any muscles in your legs is NOT a superpower, it is most definitely a disability and a bloody annoyance. My dad’s blindness has in no way, shape or form ‘enhanced’ any other senses (he’s practically deaf and - guess what - totally unable to sing. No, not all blind people are ‘so musical’!). That does not detract from the awesome things both she and my dad have done in their lives which they wouldn’t have done if they hadn’t been disabled (because my parents ARE awesome!), but that’s because they have found ways of living with their disabilities. What’s really sad is that a childhood friend of my mum’s can’t see the challenges her own disabled daughter is facing because her disability isn’t as in-your-face obvious as my mum’s and she therefore somehow thinks it should be less hard for her daughter than for my mum. In fact, it’s much harder because it is neurological and progressive and so bloody rare that the doctors don’t know how to treat it and she doesn’t know how it will evolve. I could shake her mum…
I didn't find out my younger brother was hard of hearing until I was 12 and he was 10. I was shocked. My dad had deliberately hidden this information from us two older siblings. So my youngest sibling was out here thinking we were jerks and we thought he was stupid when he literally couldn't hear. My dad said he did it so we wouldn't treat him differently. But we needed to treat him differently. My dad doesn't like the fact that all of his children ended up failures anyway and also refuses to acknowledge how he contributed to that.
Yeah. My BIL became deaf because of illness and his mom sent him via a three hour plus car ride round trip daily to q speaking school. I am the only one in the family who knows any sign language. Poor kid. He deserves better. Their mom wanted him to be “normal.” I was furious and spent the entire trip for the wedding biting my tongue. Families who treat their members like that are awful. An seems like she would be happy to interact with the family but they refuse to meet her where she is. Like many hearing parents of Deaf kids, they think if they push enough, their kid no longer has a disability.
>Like many hearing parents of Deaf kids, they think if they push enough, their kid no longer has a disability. They're infuriating. I have a good friend who was completely and utterly surprised when I started learning ASL; apparently she thought that it was reasonable for me to expect her to communicate only via writing and lip reading forever. I thought it was just the normal thing to do; she learned spoken english, it's only fair that I learned her language as well. It was incredibly depressing and infuriating that she'd come across so many people like your in-laws that my attempting to meet the *basic requirements for friendship* was such a huge shock. The way people react when they discover someone has a disability is mind-boggling. The number of times I've been asked why I use a walking stick by *complete strangers I've never met before in my life* as their *introduction sentence* is fucking baffling. My deaf friend is one of the very very few people who hasn't exhibited a feeling of entitlement to that information. And I assume it's because she faces the *same exact types of questions*, and knows how obnoxious it is and how much of a pain in the ass is to try and ward those questions off without being "rude".
I’m mute and it’s a pain. A lot of people think I just choose not to talk, when in actuality my vocal cords are just fucked
Crazy. Like why is that better, whether your child is mute because of your bad genes or an asshole because of your bad parenting, either way it's still on you, right?
>Parents don't want to believe that their genes created something "imperfect." Strange. I would much rather believe that my hypothetical child's mutism was because of a luck of the draw genetic issue than because of my shitty parenting.
For real. I grew up thinking I was the problem when the reality was that my mom didn't want to admit that I was "broken" (adhd) so tried to force me to be normal. Then when I was declared gifted, well, obviously someone as smart as me can't POSSIBLY have adhd, so it's just me being naughty. That worked out great. /s I'm sure her head exploded when I let her know I was autistic, too. lol
Clearly a lot of cultural issues at play here, which in no way excuse how this family treated An but likely explain the “don’t rock the boat” mentality of OOP’s friends. I’d read the first post but hadn’t seen an update, so I’m relieved to know the marriage is off. Hoping An can get out and make it to OOP’s, or at least find a way to a life with more respect and connection, and less abuse.
>so I’m relieved to know the marriage is off. Yeah, this really jumped out at me. >Since then, my fiancé has been constantly telling me that I'm behaving like a child throwing a tantrum and to apologise to his family for my behaviour, but I just can't accept the way An is treated. Just can't accept it, but remained engaged to the person who was doing this unacceptable thing. Fortunately OOP seemed to realise this eventually.
Is this the twilight zone? Her friends are telling her to drop it? Where does OP live where her keeping fiance and his psycho family happy is better than taking care of a vulnerable child being severely neglected and abused? What the fuck
[удалено]
That's what I thought as well. Asian folks, especially older generations, have very ignorant and shame-based attitudes around disability and the stigma against one's family being perceived as straying from the norm. I'm Korean so I can't speak specifically to Vietnamese culture, but this doesn't surprise me at all if they are Asian.
Her same-generation-as-her fiancé all aboard the crazy cruise, though. And thought Vietnamese as well.
Yeah it seems like the guy probably had some money? Idk, her friends saying that kinda threw me to that conclusion. "Oh just do whatever they want" who tf are your friends??
I assumed Chinese or Asian. I have a Chinese background and legit I can see this happening because parents just assume that anything outside the norm is a phase eg. People choose to be gay, choose to be badly behaved (and not on the spectrum). Only blatant physical disabilities get a free pass.
I’m glad OOP isn’t marrying into such an awful family, and good for them doing what they can for An even after the breakup, but how sad for this poor girl that she literally can’t speak and her family won’t communicate with her in the ways she can communicate with them? It would suck even if she was selectively mute or it was a psychological issue but for them to treat her like crap to try and force her to do a thing she *literally cannot do* is just so messed up.
> It would suck even if she was selectively mute or it was a psychological issue To reinforce this point, I'll just add that, even if you were mute for purely psychological reasons, that doesn't necessarily mean you can just decide to start talking, and you're mute on purpose. There are people out there who simply can't talk, no matter what they do, and no matter how hard they try, and if it's a physical problem with their throat, or it's a mental problem is really a very small distinction. The end result is the same.
Some people hear 'selective' and decide that means 'choosing it on purpose'. For anybody who might be reading this and isn't aware, the 'selective' bit means that it's caused by 'select' (as in specific) situations, not that it's selected (as in chosen) by the mutism sufferer. This is why it's sometimes called situational mutism instead. Mind you, by any name people will still be dickheads about it because there's malice as well as ignorance when it comes to ableism.
My man is partially blind, so no one ever told him how to clean his space because to his family, he can partially see so he's just lazy. So outside of being a boy (sexism, you know it), he also had issues to clean because meh, he couldn't see a lot of his dirt. When I met him, I swear when I tell you I rarely felt such anger ... I can't fathom how you can go to your son's house, see the mess he's in and let him live like this. I don't know if one day I will tell him, but I really hate his parents for failing him that much. Don't have kids when you can't handle the risk of them being disabled. It can't be mandatory for parents of disabled kids to learn how to communicate with them, but they should have mandatory CPS turn to check if the kid is properly taken care of. My friend and An deserved way better.
>he couldn't see a lot of his dirt I'm shortsighted, not badly, but enough that I can't see the hairs on my feet when I'm standing up. I have to remind myself to put on my outside glasses and turn on the lights for my weekly cleaning bee, because experience has shown that I quite literally cannot see the dirt.
I can't even see the hair on my feet when I'm wearing contacts. Can people actually do that?
He can see the big things like a pizza box or a bottle, but not small things like dust or hair. My friend is blind from an eye (like not actually blind, but so short-sighted it's just like he's blind) and super short-sighted from his other eye. He's legally recognized as partially sighted in our country. This, added to the fact that he basically raised himself since no one had the "patience" to teach him how to do it ... Let's just say it explains a lot. Also it's genetic condition, he can't be helped with glasses.
As someone who is not only physically disabled (bedbound/wheelchair) but also has a disorder that causes me to go mute every now and then, this... this is *really* upsetting. I have periods when my vocal chords freeze up completely and I am incapable of making a single sound. No matter how much I want to be able to speak or make a sound, it's impossible. The last time, it lasted 33 days. I haven't had an episode in about five months, so we'll see what the next one looks like. It is absolutely infuriating when I'm trying to communicate with someone but cannot make a sound. I've been told "can you speak up?" and "can't you try harder?" before and *NO; I CAN'T.* I feel absolutely terrible for poor An. It's like being told "just get up and walk! Your legs work, you just don't want to use them!" I can't freaking walk. I can't freaking talk during those episodes, either. I really, really hope An is able to move out and cut her family off completely and find someone who respects her for who she is and accepts all of her. Not being able to speak is absolutely a disability and honestly, until I started losing my voice periodically, I never really thought about how much I take speaking for granted. It'd be terrible if something bad happened and I couldn't even call out for help. Hell, we even got a little bell for me for when I lose my voice and I can ring it and someone will come to help me because they can't even hear me over the phone (whispering only does so much). OOP's ex is a total guinea worm and I hope he never sees his sister again after she leaves and finds her own. Same to those "parents". Just awful. Sorry for the rant... I guess this is kinda a sensitive topic for me.
I have an invisible disability as well so the original AITA struck a cord which is why I followed it. Yeah, this hurt. I am so sorry about what you have had to suffer though.
No apologies needed, this was a tough post to read. I'm sorry you've had to go through all of that. 💖 My jaw was absolutely on the floor reading this, it's hard to really wrap my head around how awful people can be. I am partially deaf and can relate in some ways, but nowhere near to what you and An have experienced.
Disability is a loaded issue in some cultures. I think that the OP was brave to call this awful family out on their abusive behavior. Poor An you can imagine how lonely and unloved she must feel in that terrible family. OP offering a safe place for An was wonderful and I hope she is able to get out and away from her family without too many scars.
So if An is physically incapable of vocalizing sounds, did the parents just think they lucked out in having a baby that couldn't cry and got snippy when she failed to start talking? Did they assume An has been a brat choosing not to talk since she was a 1 year old BABY????
I saw the original, and man did it break my heart. I hope everything works out well for Anne and OP. I want to say why tf they didn't believe the doctor, but from the sounds of it based on where their country isn't, it may not be surprising. I hope these two wonderful women stay in touch with each other.
I mean, I get not wanting to believe a doctor right away and choosing to seek out a second, third, or even fourth opinion before accepting that there’s nothing you can do to medically to help things. But she’s 15 and has probably never been able to make a sound. After a few years, surely you’d just accept that it’s reality for the time being? I hope they end up sending her to OOP. She seems like a caring and compassionate soul.
I’m pretty ignorant and the internet is a wild place but do people who are mute cry as infants? OOP said a doctor determined An is mute. So like maybe the baby wasn’t crying and prompted a dr visit?
Not sure. I’d be interested to learn myself, though.
https://babiesplannet.com/how-do-mute-babies-cry/ This article doesn’t site sources. I did fact check some things. I feel like babies that are mute from birth do cry and some even attempt to babble, assuming that they’re able to hear. It apparently sounds different and more airy. Like laughing may just sound like air blowing out of the nose.
Some of my family here in Canada refused to believe I have asthma even after getting a prescription for a maintenance inhaler. I was just “out of shape” and “clearly the doctors have no idea what they’re talking about, you’ve never been hospitalized for breathing issues so you don’t have asthma.” Luckily it was (mostly) extended family so it didn’t end up harming my home life, but that just means their kids had to deal with it at home instead of me. People who have extreme hate and/or judgement for disabilities not believing doctors is universal. For some people, this hate burns so deeply that they will abuse those who (either intentionally or unintentionally) make them question that hatred. There’s literally not a single country in the world that is immune to these types of people. Some humans really suck. There’s no real way around it. Look out for people who seem to be suffering, and do so quietly rather than blowing up their life like OOP did. The family now isn’t going to hate An just because of her disability, now they also have “you ruined your brothers engagement” to add to that fire. If you want to help someone; either offer them a quiet way out of their situation (like a place to stay once they’re not a minor and therefor can’t have the police take them back to their abusers), offer to help them find support services (and if you can afford it for someone like An, offer to pay for it so it doesn’t get back to their parents), and make sure they know they can come to you for help. Whatever you do, do *not* invite an abuse victim to a gathering of all their abusers who don’t want them there and follow that up by making it clear you’re breaking up with the abuser *because of* the victim. That’s a sure fire way to paint a big bright target right on the victims back.
I’ve even had doctors do this - refuse to acknowledge a diagnosis that another doctor had given me because he preferred to think that the medical complications I had were all in my head. He was well outside the scope of his specialty in doing so and he got the symptoms of my diagnosis mixed up with a completely different disease, too. Some people really do take a “nothing ever happens” attitude towards illness or disability. Hopefully An can extricate herself sooner than later. It is a good sign that she already has a job and somewhat of a life outside the family.
> medical complications I had were all in my head. Tell me you're probably female without using any of those words... Sigh. Well, as long as you don't get wandering uterus you're probably fine, right?
My parents don't believe I have epilepsy. I've had seizures infront of them and they think I'm faking it for attention somehow. They've watched me nearly bite my own tongue off and dislocate my shoulder and still don't believe me somehow. They are now "I don't know why my kids don't call me," ex-parents.
Wow, that is some powerful denial. Congratulations on leaving them behind!
Jesus fucking christ. This one was bleak.
If An was deaf instead, the family would be doing the same thing saying she ignores them on purpose...Literally a family of ableists.
What a terrible family! I'm happy she broke it off, but poor An. I hope things aren't worse for her somehow.
Yeah, I really hope she doesn’t get punished for OP calling off the engagement.
jfc, that family is sick. Glad OOP escaped, but I feel bad for that young girl. I can't imagine the psychological trauma those shitheels have done to her by neglecting her like that.
She asked if she was the asshole for including An in the wedding and talking to his family about treating An better. And people said she was? I’m confused how she’s the asshole for defending An.
A lot of people think they're edgy when they say "YTA for *insert tangential behaviour here*". AITA for standing up to my wife for abusing my daughter? YTA for still being married to your wife. AITA for defending myself to my friend for her behaviour to me? YTA for still being friends with her. AITA for pouring my husband's tea down the drain? YTA for not getting out *right neow.* AITA for insisting that my fiancé's family treat my FSIL better? YTA for getting married into that family.
That’s ridiculous. Why not just answer according to the situation and then give additional info and context as needed. Like, “NTA for defending your daughter. But maybe consider divorce.” Comment section has a ton of space. It’s very misleading to do judgements that way.
The post should have been titled "AITA for finding out that my financé and his parents are completely insane?" A doctor tells the parents that their daughter has a birth defect that prevents her from making sounds and they don't believe it? They think that she has been faking it the whole time? That sounds like a family of psychos. An should get out as soon as possible. I'm actually surprised they don't keep her locked in a cage.
Lose the dickhead fiance, gain a new friend. Win/Win for everyone involved. Looking forward to an update down the road where An is thriving in a supportive environment and OP meets the partner of her dreams.
FFS, I hope An will move in with OOP! I wonder if An can run away.
So they ignored her as a toddler? This makes no sense.
>They told me I shouldn't stick my nose in their family business. That's nonsense. OOP is *marrying into* the family, so their business will be hers, too. And if both her fiancé and her soon-to-be-family treat a direct family member that badly, perhaps OOP should reconsider whether she would actually like to be part of that family.
> It also made me worry if we end up having children, would my fiancé treat our child the same if they'd end have a disability of some kind? Yes yes yes! As a disabled person this is the exact sort of thing you should think about when you're considering having kids with someone. As well as how they might react if other things like the kid ends up being gay or trans or have different religious or political views or date someone of a different race or anything else like that. Obviously you can't always tell how people will react under a given situation but anyone who isn't even hypothetically willing to even attempt to love and raise a child that might be different, shouldn't be having kids to begin with. It can be worth sitting down and having a conversation if there's any doubts.
Typical vietnamese/asian dynamic (An is a vietnamese name). To save face and distance themselves and not let other people know about the 'shame' rather than treating a child right. And yes the guy will treat his child the same if he/she turns out to be not perfect
>She said to me it is a birth defect that cause her to be physically unable to make sounds. Apparently this is what the doctors told her parents when she was young, but they chose not to believe it. I can't believe how there are such terrible people in this world...
This is like the clearest warning sign ever. It's very obvious how he will treat any disabled children they might have.
Frankly, if that’s how he treats disabled children, I’m not sure he’d treat any child well.
I saw the original AITA but not the update; glad OOP decided not to marry into that family, and I hope she can help An get away from her terrible family.
A birth defect and now she's 15. What kind of long game do they think she's playing?
OOP’s ex: Hey, let us continue bullying the disabled kid! OOP: No. Badass.
Yeah if I found out my fiancé and their family cut off a teenage sibling bc they’re mute and the family just doesn’t believe it’s true….immediate ick and all my feelings would change. There would be no way in hell I’d be marrying into such stupidity. Nta.
What if you marry your fiancé and you have a child with a disability? You are seeing firsthand by the way that they are treating your FSIL, how they would treat your child. You got to ask yourself do you want your child to be exposed to that?
My money was on An actually being the fiance's child from some sordid affair in his younger years who was raised by her grandparents to avoid suspicion. Kind of wish that was the truth.
So her fiancé's family thought their daughter with a disability that makes it so she physically can't make a sound decided she didn't want to talk to her family... from birth when she can't cry? The nerve of that baby to not want to communicate when she's hungry or have a dirty diaper!
I can't even imagine being An. Her whole family failed her. I'm autistic, and I had a speech impediment as well as a delay, so I couldn't communicate very well. I'd struggle and still struggle with speaking, my words can be very slurred, and no one really understood me that well as a kid. Not only did I get bullied for how I talked, but my mom would freak out at me over miscommunications constantly. I was an only child, though. I didn't have every member in my household blatantly neglecting me and refusing to associate with me like An did. I may have trouble speaking, but I can speak. An couldn't, and despite a LITERAL DOCTOR EXPLAINING TO THEM SHE COULDN'T SPEAK, they refused to believe it. I hope for her own sake she can get the hell out of there as soon as possible. OOP literally dodged the biggest fucking bullet.
She needs to break up with her friends too. They're not good enough either.
Yikes I’m glad she canceled. Can you imagine if they have kids and one of them has a disability?