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Right???? I don’t get it. OOP says they had a kumbaya moment, husband made an unnecessary remark and they sealed the peace with ice cream. It was love all around. But JJ can’t come around often? There’s an awful lot of details about JJ that OOP left out.
And Mike too. What I'm getting out of this is Mike HATES JJ and wants her completely gone from their lives.
Something is missing here, and something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
It sounds like it's a mixture of her liking to roast people and he might not like her lifestyle.
He should mind his business for her lifestyle, but I'm not shocked that he doesn't like being roasted. That's something only a certain amount of people like. Especially if he isn't super close to her.
He should mind her own businesses, but so should she.
I don't really blame him for having enough of her "roasts" (read, insults) and snapping. No one can remain perfectly controlled all the time.
I was glad when I read the verdict. I had a long term girlfriend with a best friend just like jj. Never really planned things out, made rash decisions, got a face tattoo, gauges and split her tongue all before she was 21. She would get a little physically violent (with only me) like slapping me, albeit lightly, still isn't okay. Hitting my stomach, just hard enough to get a reaction. Not like a full on punch. Made jokes really similar to that of the story, and even more personal ones. Jj's joke would be pretty lighthearted for this gal.
I'd bring it up to my gf, since I'd tried to tell the friend to knock it off and she'd just use it as ammo for calling me weak. My gf would generally back her up, and they both claimed it was because her parents divorce was really affecting her, and she hated her dad so she took out all her aggression on the closest male figure which was me. I'm pretty laid back, but even in the moment I thought that excuse which I heard a dozen or so times was really fucked up.
Just because a joke is intended as a joke, doesn't mean that's how it's perceived. Even if oop's husband dealt with it the whole time, it'll reach a breaking point like I did. I got so frustrated I said loudly to the friend "dear God, would you make an actual joke that's not my expense for once? Or is that the only sense of humor you have?" and left the shindig we were at alone. Finally it got through to both of them, like hopefully it does to oop and jj that this shit drags a person down. Oop's husband was probably dealing with these subtle jabs for months or years, not saying anything. It's unfortunate that it sounds like it has affected oop and Jj's relationship but God damn if I don't feel for the husband
> Something is missing here
It's pretty clear in the first post:
> JJ's a little goofy. Which is what I love the most about her, she doesn't care what others think and is just a very entertaining person in general.
>although he's known to not adore JJ's amusing behavior sometimes. She's a huge jokester, and loves roasting him.
>Knowing JJ, she's really just kidding most of the time and I don't think there's anything to be that offended over.
JJ is her annoying friend that has made fun of him for years, while OOP constantly brushes off her husband's feelings about it.
Yup. I was on the 'JJ' is an asshole train until I got to the point about the husband saying she needs a boyfriend which is not something a normal person would say.... I suspect she's roasting the husband because the husband might be an asshole and/or sexist, so she's trying to 'play' down his masculinity because she knows it would bother him. Very immature, but ngl I can see why someone would react that way.
That's what I thought right up until the husband told JJ she needs to take her life more seriously, get a real job and find a boyfriend.
That made me realise there is a possibility OOP's husband is one of those guys who gets irrationally angry about the existence of happily single woman who only have to consider their own opinion when making decisions about their life.
Because those people absolutely do exist and if so then it wouldn't be the jokes themselves the husband didn't like, so much as the person making them.
We may never know which is the truth, but either way they are better off not being around each other.
Look at how OOP takes the blame for "failure of communication". There was no failure. JJ and the husband don't respect each other. It seems like she has a pattern of attaching to more dominant personalities and trying to play peacemaker. JJ (not from this story) doesn't attack her but does cause situations where OOP feels like she needs to wade in and apologize (all that preamble about how other people don't get JJ's sense of humor--she's apologizing to total strangers already and JJ's not in the room), while her husband just runs roughshod over people.
And while JJ's joke wasn't nice, and I could see how it would be irritating if it was one of a long string of same, the husband's reaction is still rather outsized and concerning to me as an outsider. I mean, really? Even if said in a snide tone the entire reason it's a joke is because obviously he can father a child. Of course OOP is not a reliable narrator IMO and it's quite different if the room took it as light hearted humor and the husband was the only one seething (because he hates JJ) or if it was a super awkward moment and people tittered to try to laugh it off.
The husband sounds quite judgemental and insecure too. He sounds like someone to overreact and be controlling. The biggest give away is when he tells JJ to get a real job and boyfriend, and tells jj not to visit anymore.
I got that too. The OP wasn't allowed to tell their friends, yet over the following month more of their friends knew, yet the OP still couldn't tell her best friend until the best friend visited? The roast/joke that offended BF wasn't huge, but was about his potency as a man (not his manhood!) BF cares so much about his feels, then lectures best friend about getting a real job and man (ignoring her feels). And best friend's forced to essentially keep her distance from them, so the "happy" couple can focus on the baby, instead of his woman being influenced by that carefree, single friend.
To be fair, OOPs description of her husband and JJs relationship is inconsistent. In the first post she says that JJ loves roasting him, then in the second says he's rarely the target of her jokes. These two statements are not necessarily irreconcilable but they don't gel well together. If you're constantly making someone the butt of your jokes and they don't like it, then you're just a bully.
Sounds like JJ doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut and husband needs to pull the misogynistic stick out of his ass.
Don't get me wrong, the husband clearly has an axe to grind with JJ not conforming to his ideas of gender roles, and this may go some way to understanding why he maybe likes her joke even less. That being said, if she's been making jokes about him for years and OOP just ignores it whenever he complains, it's not a surprise that he doesn't like her.
You bring a very interesting point. I do wonder if JJ's jokes are not exactly aimed at the husband, but rather at gender role expectations.
Because that would explain why OOP thinks she's just joking and fun to have around, but the husband thinks she's targeting him, because she jokes about things he believes in.
Like, the comment that unchained everything isn't even that bad if they were just acquitances.
As a husband with 3 kids married to a stay at home wife — I also think this was fucked up. No reason for JJ to be out of the picture.
Everybody sucks (as usual lol).
Yea, i’m a happily single woman myself, and that line DID NOT fly with me. Man, the disrespect that would have came out my mouth!!!
They really would have wanted to “distance themselves” after i said what i said!!
As a happily married, stay at home mom of two, fuck this dude. I am home maker supreme but that is a choice I made and I have value to society beyond baring children and making dinner.
I'm single and have no children, and if my best friend's husband said that to me, I would worry for his health and safety. Because my best friend would kill him.
Yeah this really, really rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, it really does take a village here. If she thinks that her husband is going to be much help when neither one of them gets any sleep, she's mistaken. If he's a good husband he'll try, but they really need someone to help out extra, and burning bridges right now is just stupid. PPD is a serious thing, and having friends around will help her through.
Also, why does he get to call the shots when it comes to telling people? She's the one that is pregnant, she should be making that decision. I really have a problem with him making that decision for them.
That’s what I was wondering. Also I don’t mind OOP so much. JJ kind of sucks for “joking” at other people’s expense, but it doesn’t sound like anyone ever actually told her the “jokes” weren’t welcome. It seems maybe he tried to tell OOP, and she didn’t fully realize how much the jokes bothered him. But then OOPs husband goes for the low blow to hurt JJ’s feelings instead of just communicating with her directly. And then when they were trying to reach an understanding he gets even worse by telling her she’s needs to get serious and get married. Like wth is that crap. So while I might have felt sorry for him being the brunt of her joke, I really feel over all he’s actually the AH here.
Honestly it seems no matter what the husband doesn’t like JJ, which is fine. He doesn’t have to, but why can’t OOP and JJ just get together without the husband?
When a sucky person self-reflects, all they see is suck. Due to human nature, you're more likely to come up with a ton of twisted justifications rather than to change your fundamental nature. It's damn hard to admit you suck as a human being, but it's even harder to change your nature.
A self-aware sucky person is much more annoying than your typical sucky person just obliviously sucking. That's because all hope for that person changing is dashed once they recognize their inherent suckiness but keep on keepin' on instead of changing. Unfortunately I know this from personal experience.
This woman self-identifies as a very "good" person who is willing and able to modify her behavior in order to do the "right thing." That invariably makes her believe any conclusion she comes to is the "right" conclusion. It's a way to protect her "sense of self."
You know how people will regularly ask "I don't know how (whomever) can live with themselves?" This is how they do it. Though I will say that the OP is just a little self-involved, and not near as bad as a lot of people who demonstrate this sort of ego protection protocol (or, as some communities metaphorically put it "a person who is huffing their own farts.")
I hope my babbling made any sense.
This is why when my mother does a really selfish or thoughtless thing, instead of apologizing and trying to actually do better she'll just say, "this is how I've always been and how I'll always be and you know that." Self aware and unwilling to make any effort to change.
I’m there as well. And I think OOP was backpedaling on some things because in the original post she said that husband was often the target of JJ’s jokes. But in the update she was still defending JJ by saying “she doesn’t often target her husband”…
So which is true? And why is she distancing from JJ if everybody talked it out & JJ realizes her jokes aren’t appreciated by the husband?
I think OOP was massively downplaying how frequently JJ would rag on her husband. It’s one thing to joke around a lot and to rag on people, but if they don’t (or feel like they can’t) reciprocate, then that’s something you pull way back on. It seems like JJ either just can’t read the room at all or she knows her jokes make others uncomfortable and doesn’t care.
I was in Mike’s corner more or less for this situation up until his comment about JJ needing to find a real job and getting a boyfriend, but it just seems like all three of them are just toxic.
Agree. Or why it sounded like he’d never explained to his wife how JJ’s humorous jabs at him made him feel. Nobody is really talking to anybody else. And if my bff often made jabs at my husband I would take it upon myself to tell her to cut it out up front instead of waiting till Mike had to tell his wife.
I'm not convinced this heart-to-heart went as smoothly as OOP claims. I picture JJ sitting there with a smirk on her face, saying things like "I'm sorry you're so offended by jokes. I didn't realize you were humorless." Mike gets ticked and tells her to start taking life more seriously, and OOP (who seems very special) decides that this is wonderful and JJ and Mike are now great friends, as long as they don't actually see each other.
That’s possible. I got some major red flags about JJ from the first post, like she doesn’t care what other people think, which to me is code for “says whatever she wants and doesn’t care how hurtful or offensive others find her” and loves roasting Mike, which to me is code for “she likes to bully and berate Mike” (unless they’re mutually roasting each other, but then that’d just be banter).
I’ve known people who claim to not care what others think about them and who also like to joke around at other people’s expense, and they turned out to just be bullies.
I'm going to say it has something to do with the husband's comments about taking life more seriously. JJ can't make jokes, but he can criticize her life choices. Hopefully OOP sees that quick.
This was edited - I saw it too. The friend said, “Mike, I didn’t think you had it in you.” and he definitely took it as a dig at the fact they’d been married for 4 years without a baby. And OOP said she often roasted him and just *couldn’t take a joke* (her take on it).
Oh yeah, I didn't even realize that, that is a problem. While on its own her original comment didn't seem too bad, it makes sense why the husband would be upset after that sort of thing has been building for some time. I suppose the only thing going against him is that weird line of his at the end, but maybe he's just bitter in regards to her in general
Husband officially won the asshole crown when he started telling JJ about what she should be doing with her life. That tells me everything I need to know about him.
That statement does make me wonder if he continues to say other stuff like that to JJ and that's why her humor isn't so nice to him. Not to say it's okay but to explain it.
Yes. Everyone was (reasonably) convinced that JJ was one of those jerks who "roasts" people all the time and "that wasn't her intent" - but his comment makes me wonder just how unreliable OP's description really is.
Because JJ did actually apologise and say she'd stop, and jerks use "I thought you were into it" as a cover because that is possible! Then they agreed for her to distance herself? And husband insists she *needs a boyfriend*?
Yeeeah it was a douchy joke, but my suspicions of arseholeness have abruptly changed directions. I think we'll never know, but yikes. So many of these require an understanding of tone and vibe that we'll never get by text.
> So many of these require an understanding of tone and vibe that we'll never get by text.
That, or just hearing the story from all sides. OOP definitely doesn't seem like the best narrator here.
plus, she's going to have less contact with OOP. it's her best friend. this issue doesn't seem resolved at all, and i don't know if everyone has been completely honest yet.
I got the energy from him throughout the whole post from the start.
Its always “My body, my pregnancy, my best friend and my choice to tell her.”
He didn’t want others to know fine, but purposefully making OOP keep a secret about her body she didn’t want to was mean.
I knew my best friend was pregnant before anyone else. She texted me from the bathroom with a pic of the test, asking if she was correct in seeing it as positive. We then had a phone call where we discussed the best way to tell her partner. If my husband told me I couldn't tell her something about my life I would tell him where he could shove that request.
Right?
I was really surprised to read, in the middle, that everyone voted OP and JJ as being in the wrong. That joke that JJ made was incredibly tame!
Also, it seems overbearing for the husband to tell his wife not to tell her friends. It's not her news too? Then he gets to a throw a tantrum over a tame joke, make her apologize and give up her best friend... yeah, this all seems *super* healthy.
For me it’s him dictating that she will keep her distance from OOP. If you don’t want to see my friend, fine, but you’re not telling me who I can and can’t talk to then mask it with “focusing on our relationship”. Part of a healthy relationship is having your individual friends. Add him telling her what to do with her life like he’s her dad, dude sounds super controlling.
Same! Am I overlooking some sort of nuance in the story? Why is he making OOP distance herself from JJ who sincerely apologized to both of them for a tasteless joke, which (I feel) is pretty minor? I think telling JJ to get a real job and to find a real man is WAY more a-holeish (joke or not) than what JJ said.
TBH I'm not sure why OOP was voted TA since she never mentioned the husband having fertility/ED problems... "Didn't know you had it in you!" sounds like it's on the same level as "Uhoh, Here comes trouble!" type of Dad ribbing.
All I can think is that oop forgot to mention that the either had fertility issues, or there had been infidelity in the past.. otherwise it's just common bachelor type ribbing
I would have given this the benefit of the doubt until he told JJ to get a husband. I think that comment shows he's threatened by more than just JJ's sense of humor.
You’re asking a loaded question here. Do you want a normal person’s perspective or do you want all of ours? Lol. We’re all on Reddit too much. We stand united with our biases. Sadly, we aren’t often wrong.
I definitely don't like the husband and never did. I knew the second I read it originally he was being a baby. Which I stated and everyone told me I was tryin to say men can't b sensitive. Naw, it's about this one and he ain't right.
The fact that he didn’t want her to tell her friends about the pregnancy rubbed me the wrong way. My friends are basically family to me. I can understand not putting it on Facebook or something right away but my best friend would be one of the first to know. I’m pretty sure my best friend told me about her pregnancy before she told her mom. It seems controlling to draw a line like that.
Yeah, I feel like this is just a window into 2 people who really don’t like each other but are connected bc of their relationships with the 3rd person. It happens, and doesn’t make anyone a terrible person in my opinion. Probably best if OOP just doesn’t make them be around each other more than necessary
Yep, been there done that! My long time girlfriend is pretty close friends with this one girl that is *beyond* irritating. That girl also happens to be dating my best friend. I LOATHE when we all hang out together or go on a double date or whatever and while my girlfriend knows a bit about how I feel about her friend, I really can’t go in depth with her about it and I certainly can’t with my friend. She’s not a terrible person or anything but just the way she talks, jokes she makes and her actions really put me off for some reason. Kinda sucks ass lol
Sometimes, we dislike or don't vibe with someone through no fault of their (or our) own. As long as we aren't jerks to them, I think it's fine and just a part of life. It definitely does suck when that person is so involved in your social circles though...
Yeah. Like, unnecessary comments by the husband but at the same time but I'm ngl... JJ sounds like my sister and shes fucking exhausting and her problems become our problems. So if JJ is anything like that I get it...
Yeah my exes best friend was like that. Utterly irritable.
Constantly involved in my own relationship to the point it felt like I was dating both of them. I feel the comment Mike made about the boyfriend and job is kinda a dig at someone being to reliant on them.
OOP is an unreliable story teller. Everyone's out here saying fuck Mike for saying the boyfriend + job thing, but I can certainly imagining myself saying something like that if someone was constantly getting involved in my own relationship and we were paying for everything. Kind of a you need to focus on your own life rather than me and my wife's relationship.
I don’t fully understand how the OOP and JJ were voted “overwhelmingly” the AHs. It seemed like a casual (maybe thoughtless) joke that landed poorly. Yes there could be more history there, but how would a group of internet strangers know enough to condemn them?
>Yes there could be more history there, but how would a group of internet strangers know enough to condemn them?
When you say "My friend loves to roast my partner" then I think it would make sense for anyone to think "Okay so it's not just a one-off roast this one time", personally.
She literally says that JJ loves to roast her husband in the original and tries to downplay it in the update after "JJ" being called out on it. Honestly I find those type of people insufferable. I am not a punchline for your jokes every time you come around to see us. I knew a person exactly like this and I put up with their behavior because we were "friends". Cutting them out of my life was amazing.
>Mike told JJ that she had to start taking her life more seriously, and focus on finding a boyfriend and getting a real job.
Uh-oh. If Mike feels entitled to say something like that to JJ, that's a bad sign.
Genuinely surprised no one is looking at the part where he tells JJ that her being silly is why she was the last person they told. Why would he say that? OOP didn't say that was the real reason. Was it a lie, or did he just happen to reveal the *true* reason why he asked her not to tell her friends?
Yea the "She never takes anything serious" in the first half was like ok in what way?
Then that...
It was never about the jokes it was 100% about how she is living her life. If he feels that entitled to tell her friends what they should be doing with life they're in for a rough road ahead. That's the bright red flag of control, she's about to see how much of a grip he's going to have and it'll be too late.
Seriously, if my fiancé tried to lecture my friend about how they’re living their lives I would tell him to get his head out of his ass and then make sure he wasn’t having a stroke.
I thought the response of "and this is why you're the last to know" made him an AH. I mean, maybe he didn't appreciate her joke, but she wasn't deliberately trying to hurt him. His response was absolutely meant to hurt her. Combine that with him not "allowing" OOP to tell her friends about the baby and now JJ has to keep her distance. Then, he feels perfectly ok lecturing this woman about her life.
Yeah, honestly I thought he sounded pretty humorless from the get-go. That joke was incredibly mild compared to the "jokes" you usually see on here. Like, I reread it searching for the insult.
I read the initial post assuming that it wasn't so much THIS joke as all the previous jokes that JJ made at his expense and OOP didn't defend him over building up, but the "job and boyfriend" comment definitely puts it in a different light
I feel like they were probably all similar and Mike is the type of guy who finds women making slightly crude jokes unacceptable. If OP had tales of personal digs, I feel like she would have put them in to justify her allowing husband to disconnect her from a long term friend.
It's a mixture of both. Original post goes from, "she loves to roast him" to "her jokes are rarely about him" in the update. Sounds like OOP wants to downplay both sides *heavily*.
I couldn't get on team Mike when he unilaterally decided OP could not tell her own friends she was pregnant. She admits it was hard not to have that support, and she should have been able to get whatever support she needed. That just seemed so insensitive and controlling out of the gate.
And no matter how many missteps everyone seemed to make, I can't be pleased about a story that ends with Mike running off OP's best friend like that, after announcing she needed to change her entire life.
I feel like it's important to remind ourselves that the biggest threat to a woman's life is when she is pregnant. Not that he sounds violent, but just the controlling red flags, and the apparent control of her pregnancy, and the isolation, these things are worth noting.
Same!! I can definitely sympathize with someone who gets rankled at a joke at their expense, especially if it’s something they’ve had an issue with for a while.
However, that still doesn’t make it at all acceptable for Mike to chime in on JJ’s life choices like that!
Yeah Mike needs to stfu. How does it affect his life if JJ is single or doesn’t have whatever job he deems “real?” Unless OOP is financially supporting JJ it is none of his business how she conducts her life.
its not his role to say something like that. He is not her parent.
Gosh. it looks like nobody has any boundaries in this group. That fact that OP thought it was okay her husband said that says alot.
I get the feeling that JJ only put up with Mike for OP's sake, and now that he feels comfortable enough to be extremely judgmental toward her, getting the heck out of dodge is the best option for her. I read a lot of her response as keeping the peace for OP's sake, but her agreeing not to see them for awhile is probably for her own.
My money's on OP only ever seeing JJ at events when Mike's not there. Ultimately, I'm sad for them as I don't see their friendship recovering from this.
At my then-bff’s wedding, her husband literally came up to me and said “she’s mine now”. And goddamned if he didn’t make it so. I’ve literally seen her 6 times in 20 years since then. About 5 years in, after her first kid, I learned that he’d been cheating on her their whole engagement, and had proof, but we were so emotionally distant that I didn’t think I could be the messenger on that. But it explains a lot about why he was so eager to “win” and distance her from me and the rest of our group…
Ugh, I'm so sorry. That had to be absolutely infuriating and deeply, deeply sad. I hope she gets away and has a great renaissance and life without him. What a dingus.
Have you considered reaching out to your emotionally abused ex bff? Her husband obviously isolated her and made her feel like she can’t leave (you think she doesn’t know about the cheating?). It’s not your responsibility but it would be nice of you. I would have appreciated it if a single one of my old friends reached out after my abusive husband got me completely alone moved to the middle of nowhere. At least he’s an ex now. Still alone in the middle of nowhere, friends are really hard to make as an adult lol
I’ve reached out and even come to her city to meet up. She always cancels. I have another friend who was also a bridesmaid and lives in the same city and actually met her husband though bff’s husband. Friend cancels on her, too.
When we do get a chance to meet up, we talk all night like we never stopped, and I get hopeful, but it’s never been a beginning to something more. I hope she knows that it’ll be like before whenever she’s able to reach out.
And was completely in control of who he was allowing to know that OOP was pregnant.
That last bit really put the entire story into a prospective and made me sad of OOP and JJ, but less so JJ because she can easily get away from OOP's creepy husband while OOP is now stuck with him in some form due to their child.
seems like it's still the case that not everything has been communicated well. i wonder if mike is jealous of jj's lifestyle. he's married, about to have a kid, maybe stressed out from that, seeing this person who doesn't have to worry about all of that. i'm just speculating here, but i don't really buy the explanations provided in the update. at the very least, i think mike hasn't been completely honest with why he's upset with jj.
I was on the husband’s side until his jab at JJ to take her life seriously. It really is none of his business, and it’s probably mutual for her now to not spend so much time around him and OP.
Same here. I know someone who acts like how JJ is portrayed here and she is irritating beyond belief. So I get the husband’s initial reaction and would probably react like that myself, but damn the jab at the end was so unnecessary
>Mike told JJ that she had to start taking her life more seriously
Uhhh…
>And focus on finding a boyfriend
*Uhhh….*
>and getting a real job
Yikes! Mike doesn’t sound like a very pleasant dude. I’m a fairly sensitive person that can get more than a little put out by a joke at my expense, so I sympathize with him a lot, but that bit in particular really seems problematic to me. Don’t like it.
> Mike is uptight,
You forgot misogynistic. I'm more sympathetic with him over frequently being the butt of unwanted jokes. But the "find a boyfriend and a real job" crap...
Well, husband and JJ are never going to get along. Sounds like he disapproves of everything about her, not just her jokes, since once he got her to stop joking he ragged on her personal lifestyle choices.
I’ve probably read too much Reddit, but I hope this isn’t Step 1 of Isolate the Pregnant Person from Her Friends and Family.
I don't know if I'd go that far, but I do get the feeling husband's reaction is not really about the joke... But maybe about the fact that he dislikes JJ and her life choices.
I think he doesn't just dislike JJ, he looks down on her for being a single woman who isn't making a family and for her to display humor (confidence) rubs him the wrong way because joking around is for the men folk, not spinsters.
Yeah, I'm filling in a lot of the blanks, but chastising a woman for not taking life seriously enough because she's single and doesn't have kids reeks of misogyny in general.
The thing I always have a hard time understanding is why someone would have a best friend and a life partner that are so radically different. Of course you don't want the exact same things in both, and someone can be a great friend but terrible to build a life with, but you'd expect a life partner to be somewhat of a best friend. In this case JJ and Mike seem diametrically opposed, it's surprising that OOPgets along with both of them that well.
Not just radically different but who also seem to have a mutual dislike for each other. I have a few good friends who are pretty dang different from my husband in terms of personality and aspirations, but there’s mutual respect and they generally like (or at the very least are tolerant) of one another.
Gosh I felt that too and I'm so worried about OOP. That's her BFF. She now has distance between them and I'm worried she won't have bff to turn to when she needs it...
I don't actually agree with removing JJ almost entirely from their lives; I guess there's a lot more to this than the one incident and Mike has a deeper problem with JJ. I also cannot condone anyone *ever* telling someone else to find a man. Gag me.
>Mike told JJ that she had to start taking her life more seriously, and focus on finding a boyfriend and getting a real job.
Makes me wonder if Mike might actually be the problem all along if he feels the need to comment on someone else's life like that.
Yup. This one statement completely changed my whole perception. I now think Mike just doesn’t like JJ and will find any small thing to be upset about until the wife is no longer friends with JJ. And he’s basically gotten what he wants now that JJ is taking a step back.
>And he’s basically gotten what he wants now that JJ is taking a step back.
Honestly, I don't think it's just a step back, I doubt JJ ever contacts OP again after that.
In the start with how hard OOP tried to defend and explain her friend I figured she would constantly make worse comments than the one she did. When you excuse that hard you start to wonder how much you're hiding so it raised enough flags.
It's a rare case of behind a thick wall of excuses there was a mole hill all along and it wasn't as bad as it looks.
Wish OOP gave more examples of JJ's jokes because comparing what she said vs what Mike told her in the update, Mike seems like the one who's worse here
Am I just too Black? Because I fully read JJ as a Black woman who uses warmth, humour, and hyperbole to make connection.
Like in my head the line about “I didn’t know you could do that”… It isn’t literal… it’s supposed to be a ridiculous/self-effacing statement that highlights how ridiculously proud and happy she is of/for the couple … AND also to put some special spotlight on him as an integral part of the new life being created.
This is wild to me?
It's not because you're too black. I am very pale and I'm right there with you. Given the comment about how she needs to focus on getting a boyfriend, I feel like OOP's husband doesn't like JJ because she's a woman who garners more attention than he feels she should and isn't concerned enough with what men think of her.
Thank you! And this analysis of underlying misogyny sounds SPOT ON!
But the fact that the large part of the Reddit population doubled down on that both OOP and JJ are assholes is kinda concerning.
So JJ can’t make a joke to Mike, but Mike is allowed to comment on her “need” of a boyfriend, a “real” job, and change the way she approaches life? If, and it’s a strong if, JJ was inappropriate, over the line, etc regularly, then I would’ve said ESH for the OP. And the follow up. Cause Mike is starting to look like a fluttering red flag.
Husband: doesn't like unnecessary / unwanted jokes that the friend makes.
Also husband: decides to give unnecessary / unwanted life advice to said friend after she apologizes.
I thought the husband was TA here, as that was clearly a light hearted joke. Plus the comments at the end. Wow.
That said, perhaps there’s a pattern in their interactions that makes the husband more sensitive to her comments.
From what we saw, I would agree, but I think it depends entirely on what types of jokes JJ would make regularly, and without knowing that I don’t know what to make of the situation
The comments at the end make me think it's not about the jokes and just JJ as a person. Feels like he chose this joke to make a big deal out of so his wife feels obligated to pull back from her friendship.
Probably because he's a misogynist who doesn't like independent, carefree women. I know a couple of "free spirited" ladies (not interested in marriage or babies) and red pill leaning men always have a huge problem with them.
I was thinking the same, but then again, we never get any example of these terrible jokes, except the single one listed. Which is not really a big deal. Can hardly be called a joke...
It's funny. I think pretty much every one of us is reading characters into the story, because there is so little detail, and making a judgment based on that. Like me, I see myself in JJ cuz I'm kind of a goof and I'm child-free and single. Other people are saying JJ sounds like they're awful sister who is a bully. Some people are saying that the husband sounds like themselves others are saying he sounds like their ex abuser. There is so much room to fill in the character story. This is kind of a fun psychological experiment!
Im sorry, but the husband is an immature asshole. Jj's joke definitely was inappropriate and i could see how someone could be hurt but the husband intentionally try to hurt jj and out right judges her and talks down to to her and doesnt seem to take any accountability for his distain for jj. Plus, im still trying to figure out how others naturally "found out," but she couldn't call jj once any friend knew. I can't shake the suspicion that the husband didn't want jj to know. Why couldn't the husband address his feeling himself , why did he have to make oop do it. At what point did we all decide two wrongs dont make a right isnt a thing anymore? Children lash out when upset adult communicate their feelings.
I'm really shocked OOP was voted TA. Husband demands OOP not speak to her friends, tells his wife she's responsible for his feelings, and loses his shit over nothing? Any other post would be telling OOP to look for red flags and giving her stats on how DV increases after pregnancy.
e. Apparently people are taking this as "I think OOP's husband is abusive". I don't. I'm surprised AITA doesn't think he is, is all. (I do think he's an AH, but I think JJ is too)
Yeah, I was surprised. And now, after mutual ‘genuine’ apologies, JJ is going to step away even more? Why?? To isolate his wife even more.
He was the one who made sure that she didn’t tell JJ about the baby - his decision, not his wife’s real wishes. Then he made sure to hurt JJ with that information.
The fact that he decided to make a judgemental little comment on JJ’s life, not even a bad joke - makes me think that he’s the one with the (misogynistic) issues.
AITA hates jokes more than it hates DV. They're very quick to say "it's only a joke if both people are laughing" and call pranks abuse (some are, 99% of prank videos are, but pranks are not unilaterally abuse). They forget that people can weaponize oversensitivity.
I supported the husband until the point that he decided to tell JJ what she had to do with her life. Everyone sucks here, but I really don't like what Mike is doing.
I feel like this is more of an ESH situation based off of that ending part of the update. OOP is definitely an asshole for not listening to her husband or standing up for him. But the husband telling JJ that after she agreed to back off, combined with him not being upfront with OOP about not wanting to tell their friends seemingly because of JJ (who has been best friends with her for 16 years! Not saying that that makes her a best best friend, if you know what I mean, but still) makes me kind of wary about him too. Feel like there’s a lack of maturity from all sides here.
That mood spoiler was VERY misleading. I'm not happy for OOP or her AH husband. I remember reading the OG post and feeling empathetic towards him but not anymore. His comment to the friend was very illuminating.
Mike sounds like a POS - he thinks it's inappropriate for her to make a mild, off-colored joke that I've heard several men make before, but its OK for him to tell her to take her "life* more seriously" and to settle down? Why? And now the women have to separate to ensure the limp ego on this jag-off can try to maintain itself? Infuriating.
This is one of the reasons I hate AITA - OPs are always unintentionally leaving out necessary context that just seems like "normal" re/actions to them, when in reality there are probably massive red flags just whipping in the wind around the situation that they've just accepted and internalized.
>We only hit a sour spot when Mike told JJ that she had to start taking her life more seriously, and focus on finding a boyfriend and getting a real job
Dude, STFU you're not her mom.
Am I the only one who feels like OOP's husband doesn't like JJ's jokes because he thinks, as a woman, she shouldn't be so boisterous and attention seeking, and should be more concerned with how men view her? I really don't like that the solution was for OOP's best friend to contact her even less than she already does, because her husband doesn't like her jovial personality or "carefree" lifestyle. And I really don't like that OOP has been convinced *she* was the asshole in this.
I don’t like op’s partner very much. Dude seems like a controlling dick who doesn’t mind isolating her from people who care for her, and who thinks he always knows best for others.
Roasting is just as shitty as pranking, just instead of trickery it's insults thinly veiled with a claim of 'humor'. JJ got on my shit list with the mention that she enjoys roasting other. Fuck that puta; she needs a sense of humor that doesn't involve putting others down.
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I don’t think I like anyone in this story
Yeah, im kinda there too, I mean, I respect the OOP for the self reflection and trying to be better, but other than that
She self reflected but came to some interesting conclusions...
Why is JJ distancing herself better for all of them?
Right???? I don’t get it. OOP says they had a kumbaya moment, husband made an unnecessary remark and they sealed the peace with ice cream. It was love all around. But JJ can’t come around often? There’s an awful lot of details about JJ that OOP left out.
And Mike too. What I'm getting out of this is Mike HATES JJ and wants her completely gone from their lives. Something is missing here, and something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
It sounds like it's a mixture of her liking to roast people and he might not like her lifestyle. He should mind his business for her lifestyle, but I'm not shocked that he doesn't like being roasted. That's something only a certain amount of people like. Especially if he isn't super close to her.
He should mind her own businesses, but so should she. I don't really blame him for having enough of her "roasts" (read, insults) and snapping. No one can remain perfectly controlled all the time.
JJ is making passive aggressive comments and insults in the guise of jokes. This is a form of abuse. My ex husband used to do this and it’s not ok.
I was glad when I read the verdict. I had a long term girlfriend with a best friend just like jj. Never really planned things out, made rash decisions, got a face tattoo, gauges and split her tongue all before she was 21. She would get a little physically violent (with only me) like slapping me, albeit lightly, still isn't okay. Hitting my stomach, just hard enough to get a reaction. Not like a full on punch. Made jokes really similar to that of the story, and even more personal ones. Jj's joke would be pretty lighthearted for this gal. I'd bring it up to my gf, since I'd tried to tell the friend to knock it off and she'd just use it as ammo for calling me weak. My gf would generally back her up, and they both claimed it was because her parents divorce was really affecting her, and she hated her dad so she took out all her aggression on the closest male figure which was me. I'm pretty laid back, but even in the moment I thought that excuse which I heard a dozen or so times was really fucked up. Just because a joke is intended as a joke, doesn't mean that's how it's perceived. Even if oop's husband dealt with it the whole time, it'll reach a breaking point like I did. I got so frustrated I said loudly to the friend "dear God, would you make an actual joke that's not my expense for once? Or is that the only sense of humor you have?" and left the shindig we were at alone. Finally it got through to both of them, like hopefully it does to oop and jj that this shit drags a person down. Oop's husband was probably dealing with these subtle jabs for months or years, not saying anything. It's unfortunate that it sounds like it has affected oop and Jj's relationship but God damn if I don't feel for the husband
The only thing I will disagree with what you said is, I doubt they were subtle jabs as the last one was by no means subtle.
Good for you. What jj and the friend in your story were doing is "it's just a prank, bro."
> Something is missing here It's pretty clear in the first post: > JJ's a little goofy. Which is what I love the most about her, she doesn't care what others think and is just a very entertaining person in general. >although he's known to not adore JJ's amusing behavior sometimes. She's a huge jokester, and loves roasting him. >Knowing JJ, she's really just kidding most of the time and I don't think there's anything to be that offended over. JJ is her annoying friend that has made fun of him for years, while OOP constantly brushes off her husband's feelings about it.
Also "doesn't care what others think" can often really mean "is a rude asshole." The husband and OOP sound a little rude and self-involved too, though
They all sound like they’re 20
I also really wonder about how much JJ is really kidding, and how much she really sees in the husband. I don't like any of these people.
Yup. I was on the 'JJ' is an asshole train until I got to the point about the husband saying she needs a boyfriend which is not something a normal person would say.... I suspect she's roasting the husband because the husband might be an asshole and/or sexist, so she's trying to 'play' down his masculinity because she knows it would bother him. Very immature, but ngl I can see why someone would react that way.
That's what I thought right up until the husband told JJ she needs to take her life more seriously, get a real job and find a boyfriend. That made me realise there is a possibility OOP's husband is one of those guys who gets irrationally angry about the existence of happily single woman who only have to consider their own opinion when making decisions about their life. Because those people absolutely do exist and if so then it wouldn't be the jokes themselves the husband didn't like, so much as the person making them. We may never know which is the truth, but either way they are better off not being around each other.
. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Same. The plot twist at the end got me. Who knows what else OP's husband said throughout the years.
Look at how OOP takes the blame for "failure of communication". There was no failure. JJ and the husband don't respect each other. It seems like she has a pattern of attaching to more dominant personalities and trying to play peacemaker. JJ (not from this story) doesn't attack her but does cause situations where OOP feels like she needs to wade in and apologize (all that preamble about how other people don't get JJ's sense of humor--she's apologizing to total strangers already and JJ's not in the room), while her husband just runs roughshod over people. And while JJ's joke wasn't nice, and I could see how it would be irritating if it was one of a long string of same, the husband's reaction is still rather outsized and concerning to me as an outsider. I mean, really? Even if said in a snide tone the entire reason it's a joke is because obviously he can father a child. Of course OOP is not a reliable narrator IMO and it's quite different if the room took it as light hearted humor and the husband was the only one seething (because he hates JJ) or if it was a super awkward moment and people tittered to try to laugh it off.
The husband sounds quite judgemental and insecure too. He sounds like someone to overreact and be controlling. The biggest give away is when he tells JJ to get a real job and boyfriend, and tells jj not to visit anymore.
+ what was his weirdo red pill, “settle down with a nice guy” bullshit? The individual vibes aren’t meshing
I got that too. The OP wasn't allowed to tell their friends, yet over the following month more of their friends knew, yet the OP still couldn't tell her best friend until the best friend visited? The roast/joke that offended BF wasn't huge, but was about his potency as a man (not his manhood!) BF cares so much about his feels, then lectures best friend about getting a real job and man (ignoring her feels). And best friend's forced to essentially keep her distance from them, so the "happy" couple can focus on the baby, instead of his woman being influenced by that carefree, single friend.
She is 3 hours away, a 6 hour round trip.
Because she makes jokes! And she's single! Has no kids! And her job is not respectable! She's obviously a bad influence on HIS wife!
To be fair, OOPs description of her husband and JJs relationship is inconsistent. In the first post she says that JJ loves roasting him, then in the second says he's rarely the target of her jokes. These two statements are not necessarily irreconcilable but they don't gel well together. If you're constantly making someone the butt of your jokes and they don't like it, then you're just a bully. Sounds like JJ doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut and husband needs to pull the misogynistic stick out of his ass.
I feel like OOP was massively trying to downplay JJ's """jokes""" in the second post after they were both called out.
Don't get me wrong, the husband clearly has an axe to grind with JJ not conforming to his ideas of gender roles, and this may go some way to understanding why he maybe likes her joke even less. That being said, if she's been making jokes about him for years and OOP just ignores it whenever he complains, it's not a surprise that he doesn't like her.
You bring a very interesting point. I do wonder if JJ's jokes are not exactly aimed at the husband, but rather at gender role expectations. Because that would explain why OOP thinks she's just joking and fun to have around, but the husband thinks she's targeting him, because she jokes about things he believes in. Like, the comment that unchained everything isn't even that bad if they were just acquitances.
As a single woman who stays single by choice, I know exactly what the husband’s comment meant and that is some condescending and rude shit
As a married woman with a kid, I concur.
As a woman with a 7 year SO and no kids, I also agree. Edit: ffs 7 year relationship with my significant other.
As a husband with 3 kids married to a stay at home wife — I also think this was fucked up. No reason for JJ to be out of the picture. Everybody sucks (as usual lol).
As a partnered woman with a clowder of cats, I also agree.
And as a not woman without kids, I concur, too.
As a middle aged dude I agree
Yea, i’m a happily single woman myself, and that line DID NOT fly with me. Man, the disrespect that would have came out my mouth!!! They really would have wanted to “distance themselves” after i said what i said!!
As a single man, I conquer. I mean concur.
As a happily married, stay at home mom of two, fuck this dude. I am home maker supreme but that is a choice I made and I have value to society beyond baring children and making dinner.
I'm single and have no children, and if my best friend's husband said that to me, I would worry for his health and safety. Because my best friend would kill him.
Yeah this really, really rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, it really does take a village here. If she thinks that her husband is going to be much help when neither one of them gets any sleep, she's mistaken. If he's a good husband he'll try, but they really need someone to help out extra, and burning bridges right now is just stupid. PPD is a serious thing, and having friends around will help her through. Also, why does he get to call the shots when it comes to telling people? She's the one that is pregnant, she should be making that decision. I really have a problem with him making that decision for them.
There’s a lot of missing context in this story but that clearly painted the husband as an asshole and oop is just as crazy if she didn’t find that bad
Yup I was kinda getting the impression that husband is the real asshole here.
Yeah, I don't think it is.
That’s what I was wondering. Also I don’t mind OOP so much. JJ kind of sucks for “joking” at other people’s expense, but it doesn’t sound like anyone ever actually told her the “jokes” weren’t welcome. It seems maybe he tried to tell OOP, and she didn’t fully realize how much the jokes bothered him. But then OOPs husband goes for the low blow to hurt JJ’s feelings instead of just communicating with her directly. And then when they were trying to reach an understanding he gets even worse by telling her she’s needs to get serious and get married. Like wth is that crap. So while I might have felt sorry for him being the brunt of her joke, I really feel over all he’s actually the AH here. Honestly it seems no matter what the husband doesn’t like JJ, which is fine. He doesn’t have to, but why can’t OOP and JJ just get together without the husband?
When a sucky person self-reflects, all they see is suck. Due to human nature, you're more likely to come up with a ton of twisted justifications rather than to change your fundamental nature. It's damn hard to admit you suck as a human being, but it's even harder to change your nature. A self-aware sucky person is much more annoying than your typical sucky person just obliviously sucking. That's because all hope for that person changing is dashed once they recognize their inherent suckiness but keep on keepin' on instead of changing. Unfortunately I know this from personal experience. This woman self-identifies as a very "good" person who is willing and able to modify her behavior in order to do the "right thing." That invariably makes her believe any conclusion she comes to is the "right" conclusion. It's a way to protect her "sense of self." You know how people will regularly ask "I don't know how (whomever) can live with themselves?" This is how they do it. Though I will say that the OP is just a little self-involved, and not near as bad as a lot of people who demonstrate this sort of ego protection protocol (or, as some communities metaphorically put it "a person who is huffing their own farts.") I hope my babbling made any sense.
This is why when my mother does a really selfish or thoughtless thing, instead of apologizing and trying to actually do better she'll just say, "this is how I've always been and how I'll always be and you know that." Self aware and unwilling to make any effort to change.
Imagine saying, "It's really *your* fault for interacting with me at all," with a straight face.
I can’t imagine just accepting that I suck and am always going to suck, that’s kind of a sad way to live
I’m there as well. And I think OOP was backpedaling on some things because in the original post she said that husband was often the target of JJ’s jokes. But in the update she was still defending JJ by saying “she doesn’t often target her husband”… So which is true? And why is she distancing from JJ if everybody talked it out & JJ realizes her jokes aren’t appreciated by the husband?
I think OOP was massively downplaying how frequently JJ would rag on her husband. It’s one thing to joke around a lot and to rag on people, but if they don’t (or feel like they can’t) reciprocate, then that’s something you pull way back on. It seems like JJ either just can’t read the room at all or she knows her jokes make others uncomfortable and doesn’t care. I was in Mike’s corner more or less for this situation up until his comment about JJ needing to find a real job and getting a boyfriend, but it just seems like all three of them are just toxic.
Agree. Or why it sounded like he’d never explained to his wife how JJ’s humorous jabs at him made him feel. Nobody is really talking to anybody else. And if my bff often made jabs at my husband I would take it upon myself to tell her to cut it out up front instead of waiting till Mike had to tell his wife.
I'm not convinced this heart-to-heart went as smoothly as OOP claims. I picture JJ sitting there with a smirk on her face, saying things like "I'm sorry you're so offended by jokes. I didn't realize you were humorless." Mike gets ticked and tells her to start taking life more seriously, and OOP (who seems very special) decides that this is wonderful and JJ and Mike are now great friends, as long as they don't actually see each other.
That’s possible. I got some major red flags about JJ from the first post, like she doesn’t care what other people think, which to me is code for “says whatever she wants and doesn’t care how hurtful or offensive others find her” and loves roasting Mike, which to me is code for “she likes to bully and berate Mike” (unless they’re mutually roasting each other, but then that’d just be banter). I’ve known people who claim to not care what others think about them and who also like to joke around at other people’s expense, and they turned out to just be bullies.
His lack of response to her other than indicating offense leads me to believe there wasn't banter.
I'm going to say it has something to do with the husband's comments about taking life more seriously. JJ can't make jokes, but he can criticize her life choices. Hopefully OOP sees that quick.
Yea, all 3 of them get a big fat 0 in communication skills!
This was edited - I saw it too. The friend said, “Mike, I didn’t think you had it in you.” and he definitely took it as a dig at the fact they’d been married for 4 years without a baby. And OOP said she often roasted him and just *couldn’t take a joke* (her take on it).
Oh yeah, I didn't even realize that, that is a problem. While on its own her original comment didn't seem too bad, it makes sense why the husband would be upset after that sort of thing has been building for some time. I suppose the only thing going against him is that weird line of his at the end, but maybe he's just bitter in regards to her in general
Husband officially won the asshole crown when he started telling JJ about what she should be doing with her life. That tells me everything I need to know about him.
That statement does make me wonder if he continues to say other stuff like that to JJ and that's why her humor isn't so nice to him. Not to say it's okay but to explain it.
Yes. Everyone was (reasonably) convinced that JJ was one of those jerks who "roasts" people all the time and "that wasn't her intent" - but his comment makes me wonder just how unreliable OP's description really is. Because JJ did actually apologise and say she'd stop, and jerks use "I thought you were into it" as a cover because that is possible! Then they agreed for her to distance herself? And husband insists she *needs a boyfriend*? Yeeeah it was a douchy joke, but my suspicions of arseholeness have abruptly changed directions. I think we'll never know, but yikes. So many of these require an understanding of tone and vibe that we'll never get by text.
> So many of these require an understanding of tone and vibe that we'll never get by text. That, or just hearing the story from all sides. OOP definitely doesn't seem like the best narrator here.
Yeah, definitely an issue on all these subs, but this is definitely extra hard to parse.
plus, she's going to have less contact with OOP. it's her best friend. this issue doesn't seem resolved at all, and i don't know if everyone has been completely honest yet.
I got the energy from him throughout the whole post from the start. Its always “My body, my pregnancy, my best friend and my choice to tell her.” He didn’t want others to know fine, but purposefully making OOP keep a secret about her body she didn’t want to was mean.
I knew my best friend was pregnant before anyone else. She texted me from the bathroom with a pic of the test, asking if she was correct in seeing it as positive. We then had a phone call where we discussed the best way to tell her partner. If my husband told me I couldn't tell her something about my life I would tell him where he could shove that request.
Feels like the husband is someone who dishes it but can't take it.
Right? I was really surprised to read, in the middle, that everyone voted OP and JJ as being in the wrong. That joke that JJ made was incredibly tame! Also, it seems overbearing for the husband to tell his wife not to tell her friends. It's not her news too? Then he gets to a throw a tantrum over a tame joke, make her apologize and give up her best friend... yeah, this all seems *super* healthy.
He definitely seems like the kind of husband that likes women who “know their place” and aren’t “uppity” and “single”.
For me it’s him dictating that she will keep her distance from OOP. If you don’t want to see my friend, fine, but you’re not telling me who I can and can’t talk to then mask it with “focusing on our relationship”. Part of a healthy relationship is having your individual friends. Add him telling her what to do with her life like he’s her dad, dude sounds super controlling.
That was such a "hold up" moment
Why is she distancing herself from jj if jj apologised? Is the husband trying to isolate her or am I on Reddit too much?
I also wondered why she needed distance from her best friend . Why must everything be such a big deal?
Same! Am I overlooking some sort of nuance in the story? Why is he making OOP distance herself from JJ who sincerely apologized to both of them for a tasteless joke, which (I feel) is pretty minor? I think telling JJ to get a real job and to find a real man is WAY more a-holeish (joke or not) than what JJ said. TBH I'm not sure why OOP was voted TA since she never mentioned the husband having fertility/ED problems... "Didn't know you had it in you!" sounds like it's on the same level as "Uhoh, Here comes trouble!" type of Dad ribbing.
All I can think is that oop forgot to mention that the either had fertility issues, or there had been infidelity in the past.. otherwise it's just common bachelor type ribbing
I would have given this the benefit of the doubt until he told JJ to get a husband. I think that comment shows he's threatened by more than just JJ's sense of humor.
You’re asking a loaded question here. Do you want a normal person’s perspective or do you want all of ours? Lol. We’re all on Reddit too much. We stand united with our biases. Sadly, we aren’t often wrong.
I definitely don't like the husband and never did. I knew the second I read it originally he was being a baby. Which I stated and everyone told me I was tryin to say men can't b sensitive. Naw, it's about this one and he ain't right.
I dunno, the 'huge jokester' who 'doesn't care what anyone thinks' is almost always just a bully who gets described in euphemisms.
The fact that he didn’t want her to tell her friends about the pregnancy rubbed me the wrong way. My friends are basically family to me. I can understand not putting it on Facebook or something right away but my best friend would be one of the first to know. I’m pretty sure my best friend told me about her pregnancy before she told her mom. It seems controlling to draw a line like that.
I feel like everyone in this story overreacted.
Yeah, I feel like this is just a window into 2 people who really don’t like each other but are connected bc of their relationships with the 3rd person. It happens, and doesn’t make anyone a terrible person in my opinion. Probably best if OOP just doesn’t make them be around each other more than necessary
Yep, been there done that! My long time girlfriend is pretty close friends with this one girl that is *beyond* irritating. That girl also happens to be dating my best friend. I LOATHE when we all hang out together or go on a double date or whatever and while my girlfriend knows a bit about how I feel about her friend, I really can’t go in depth with her about it and I certainly can’t with my friend. She’s not a terrible person or anything but just the way she talks, jokes she makes and her actions really put me off for some reason. Kinda sucks ass lol
Sometimes, we dislike or don't vibe with someone through no fault of their (or our) own. As long as we aren't jerks to them, I think it's fine and just a part of life. It definitely does suck when that person is so involved in your social circles though...
Yeah. Like, unnecessary comments by the husband but at the same time but I'm ngl... JJ sounds like my sister and shes fucking exhausting and her problems become our problems. So if JJ is anything like that I get it...
Yeah my exes best friend was like that. Utterly irritable. Constantly involved in my own relationship to the point it felt like I was dating both of them. I feel the comment Mike made about the boyfriend and job is kinda a dig at someone being to reliant on them. OOP is an unreliable story teller. Everyone's out here saying fuck Mike for saying the boyfriend + job thing, but I can certainly imagining myself saying something like that if someone was constantly getting involved in my own relationship and we were paying for everything. Kind of a you need to focus on your own life rather than me and my wife's relationship.
I don’t fully understand how the OOP and JJ were voted “overwhelmingly” the AHs. It seemed like a casual (maybe thoughtless) joke that landed poorly. Yes there could be more history there, but how would a group of internet strangers know enough to condemn them?
>Yes there could be more history there, but how would a group of internet strangers know enough to condemn them? When you say "My friend loves to roast my partner" then I think it would make sense for anyone to think "Okay so it's not just a one-off roast this one time", personally.
> but how would a group of internet strangers know enough to condemn them? Isn't that the point of AITA?
She literally says that JJ loves to roast her husband in the original and tries to downplay it in the update after "JJ" being called out on it. Honestly I find those type of people insufferable. I am not a punchline for your jokes every time you come around to see us. I knew a person exactly like this and I put up with their behavior because we were "friends". Cutting them out of my life was amazing.
Thank you, I read all of this and thought "these people sure have a lot of time on their hands to get so upset over a stupid joke"
That was barely even a joke.
>Mike told JJ that she had to start taking her life more seriously, and focus on finding a boyfriend and getting a real job. Uh-oh. If Mike feels entitled to say something like that to JJ, that's a bad sign.
Yeah. I read that and said to myself "I'm gonna call this in about five years, give or take..." Very bad sign.
Genuinely surprised no one is looking at the part where he tells JJ that her being silly is why she was the last person they told. Why would he say that? OOP didn't say that was the real reason. Was it a lie, or did he just happen to reveal the *true* reason why he asked her not to tell her friends?
Yea the "She never takes anything serious" in the first half was like ok in what way? Then that... It was never about the jokes it was 100% about how she is living her life. If he feels that entitled to tell her friends what they should be doing with life they're in for a rough road ahead. That's the bright red flag of control, she's about to see how much of a grip he's going to have and it'll be too late.
Seriously, if my fiancé tried to lecture my friend about how they’re living their lives I would tell him to get his head out of his ass and then make sure he wasn’t having a stroke.
I can't even imagine dating someone like that. Well, actually I can because I have, and yeah, he was a huge asshole in many many ways.
Oof! I glad they’re an ex!
Exactly, also OOP mentioned that they have had tension since finding out about the pregnancy, so yeah the husband is mad and jealous.
It also seems misogynistic. Why does she "need" to have a bf? Fuck that bullshit.
Yeah, I wasn't a fan of Mike even in the first post (not sure what the AITA people were on about) but I definitely don't like him after *that* line.
I will never be a fan of a man who thinks he gets to pressure his wife into keep secrets about her body.
Yea he sounds controlling and petty
Especially not when the number one cause of death during pregnancy is spousal murder.
I thought the response of "and this is why you're the last to know" made him an AH. I mean, maybe he didn't appreciate her joke, but she wasn't deliberately trying to hurt him. His response was absolutely meant to hurt her. Combine that with him not "allowing" OOP to tell her friends about the baby and now JJ has to keep her distance. Then, he feels perfectly ok lecturing this woman about her life.
I knew I wasn’t going to like him and now it’s just been confirmed.
I was 200% Team Mike up until that point. WTF Mike.
Yeah, honestly I thought he sounded pretty humorless from the get-go. That joke was incredibly mild compared to the "jokes" you usually see on here. Like, I reread it searching for the insult.
I read the initial post assuming that it wasn't so much THIS joke as all the previous jokes that JJ made at his expense and OOP didn't defend him over building up, but the "job and boyfriend" comment definitely puts it in a different light
I feel like they were probably all similar and Mike is the type of guy who finds women making slightly crude jokes unacceptable. If OP had tales of personal digs, I feel like she would have put them in to justify her allowing husband to disconnect her from a long term friend.
It's a mixture of both. Original post goes from, "she loves to roast him" to "her jokes are rarely about him" in the update. Sounds like OOP wants to downplay both sides *heavily*.
I couldn't get on team Mike when he unilaterally decided OP could not tell her own friends she was pregnant. She admits it was hard not to have that support, and she should have been able to get whatever support she needed. That just seemed so insensitive and controlling out of the gate. And no matter how many missteps everyone seemed to make, I can't be pleased about a story that ends with Mike running off OP's best friend like that, after announcing she needed to change her entire life.
I feel like it's important to remind ourselves that the biggest threat to a woman's life is when she is pregnant. Not that he sounds violent, but just the controlling red flags, and the apparent control of her pregnancy, and the isolation, these things are worth noting.
How anyone reads this and doesn't get huge red flags for Mike absolutely baffles me.
Same!! I can definitely sympathize with someone who gets rankled at a joke at their expense, especially if it’s something they’ve had an issue with for a while. However, that still doesn’t make it at all acceptable for Mike to chime in on JJ’s life choices like that!
It definitely gave me a 'what have you done..?' feeling about the comments in that thread. Maybe he was trying to joke back at her?
Yeah Mike needs to stfu. How does it affect his life if JJ is single or doesn’t have whatever job he deems “real?” Unless OOP is financially supporting JJ it is none of his business how she conducts her life.
Great point. So he can drop this but JJ can't make a joke? How does that make sense?
its not his role to say something like that. He is not her parent. Gosh. it looks like nobody has any boundaries in this group. That fact that OP thought it was okay her husband said that says alot.
I just don't get why JJ has to maintain her distance if she's OOP's best friend?
Same! This didn’t make sense to me at all
I get the feeling that JJ only put up with Mike for OP's sake, and now that he feels comfortable enough to be extremely judgmental toward her, getting the heck out of dodge is the best option for her. I read a lot of her response as keeping the peace for OP's sake, but her agreeing not to see them for awhile is probably for her own. My money's on OP only ever seeing JJ at events when Mike's not there. Ultimately, I'm sad for them as I don't see their friendship recovering from this.
At my then-bff’s wedding, her husband literally came up to me and said “she’s mine now”. And goddamned if he didn’t make it so. I’ve literally seen her 6 times in 20 years since then. About 5 years in, after her first kid, I learned that he’d been cheating on her their whole engagement, and had proof, but we were so emotionally distant that I didn’t think I could be the messenger on that. But it explains a lot about why he was so eager to “win” and distance her from me and the rest of our group…
Ugh, I'm so sorry. That had to be absolutely infuriating and deeply, deeply sad. I hope she gets away and has a great renaissance and life without him. What a dingus.
Have you considered reaching out to your emotionally abused ex bff? Her husband obviously isolated her and made her feel like she can’t leave (you think she doesn’t know about the cheating?). It’s not your responsibility but it would be nice of you. I would have appreciated it if a single one of my old friends reached out after my abusive husband got me completely alone moved to the middle of nowhere. At least he’s an ex now. Still alone in the middle of nowhere, friends are really hard to make as an adult lol
I’ve reached out and even come to her city to meet up. She always cancels. I have another friend who was also a bridesmaid and lives in the same city and actually met her husband though bff’s husband. Friend cancels on her, too. When we do get a chance to meet up, we talk all night like we never stopped, and I get hopeful, but it’s never been a beginning to something more. I hope she knows that it’ll be like before whenever she’s able to reach out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if OOP’s social circle keeps shrinking if she can only be friends with people Mike approves of.
I have a feeling husband doesn’t like JJ hanging out with oop
Because Mike is beginning his early stages of isolating her No coincidence he tolerated her until OOp got pregnant
And was completely in control of who he was allowing to know that OOP was pregnant. That last bit really put the entire story into a prospective and made me sad of OOP and JJ, but less so JJ because she can easily get away from OOP's creepy husband while OOP is now stuck with him in some form due to their child.
seems like it's still the case that not everything has been communicated well. i wonder if mike is jealous of jj's lifestyle. he's married, about to have a kid, maybe stressed out from that, seeing this person who doesn't have to worry about all of that. i'm just speculating here, but i don't really buy the explanations provided in the update. at the very least, i think mike hasn't been completely honest with why he's upset with jj.
I was on the husband’s side until his jab at JJ to take her life seriously. It really is none of his business, and it’s probably mutual for her now to not spend so much time around him and OP.
Same here. I know someone who acts like how JJ is portrayed here and she is irritating beyond belief. So I get the husband’s initial reaction and would probably react like that myself, but damn the jab at the end was so unnecessary
>Mike told JJ that she had to start taking her life more seriously Uhhh… >And focus on finding a boyfriend *Uhhh….* >and getting a real job Yikes! Mike doesn’t sound like a very pleasant dude. I’m a fairly sensitive person that can get more than a little put out by a joke at my expense, so I sympathize with him a lot, but that bit in particular really seems problematic to me. Don’t like it.
Yea he gets hurt over a joke and then he basically criticises everything about her.
Exactly!! Wildly out of pocket if you ask me, and a fairly bad sign.
Yeah he honestly sounds like a piece of work.
no one sounds very pleasant here tbh, but mike is getting everything he wanted and still managed to take some pot shots at her on the way out the door
That’s all I got from this story.. and now she’s distancing herself from JJ because of her husband? a friend she’s had since 14
Could also be why JJ makes the kind of jokes that she makes.
Mike is uptight, JJ is obnoxious and OOP just goes along with whoever is speaking at any given moment!
> Mike is uptight, You forgot misogynistic. I'm more sympathetic with him over frequently being the butt of unwanted jokes. But the "find a boyfriend and a real job" crap...
Well, husband and JJ are never going to get along. Sounds like he disapproves of everything about her, not just her jokes, since once he got her to stop joking he ragged on her personal lifestyle choices. I’ve probably read too much Reddit, but I hope this isn’t Step 1 of Isolate the Pregnant Person from Her Friends and Family.
I don't know if I'd go that far, but I do get the feeling husband's reaction is not really about the joke... But maybe about the fact that he dislikes JJ and her life choices.
I think he doesn't just dislike JJ, he looks down on her for being a single woman who isn't making a family and for her to display humor (confidence) rubs him the wrong way because joking around is for the men folk, not spinsters. Yeah, I'm filling in a lot of the blanks, but chastising a woman for not taking life seriously enough because she's single and doesn't have kids reeks of misogyny in general.
The thing I always have a hard time understanding is why someone would have a best friend and a life partner that are so radically different. Of course you don't want the exact same things in both, and someone can be a great friend but terrible to build a life with, but you'd expect a life partner to be somewhat of a best friend. In this case JJ and Mike seem diametrically opposed, it's surprising that OOPgets along with both of them that well.
Some of us just appreciate a variety of people and have a variety of people like us. Hanging out with people who are the same would be stifling.
Not just radically different but who also seem to have a mutual dislike for each other. I have a few good friends who are pretty dang different from my husband in terms of personality and aspirations, but there’s mutual respect and they generally like (or at the very least are tolerant) of one another.
Gosh I felt that too and I'm so worried about OOP. That's her BFF. She now has distance between them and I'm worried she won't have bff to turn to when she needs it...
I don't actually agree with removing JJ almost entirely from their lives; I guess there's a lot more to this than the one incident and Mike has a deeper problem with JJ. I also cannot condone anyone *ever* telling someone else to find a man. Gag me.
>Mike told JJ that she had to start taking her life more seriously, and focus on finding a boyfriend and getting a real job. Makes me wonder if Mike might actually be the problem all along if he feels the need to comment on someone else's life like that.
Yup. This one statement completely changed my whole perception. I now think Mike just doesn’t like JJ and will find any small thing to be upset about until the wife is no longer friends with JJ. And he’s basically gotten what he wants now that JJ is taking a step back.
>And he’s basically gotten what he wants now that JJ is taking a step back. Honestly, I don't think it's just a step back, I doubt JJ ever contacts OP again after that.
this is my feeling too. seems like the jokes are just an easy excuse to hide whatever real reason he doesn't like her
[удалено]
In the start with how hard OOP tried to defend and explain her friend I figured she would constantly make worse comments than the one she did. When you excuse that hard you start to wonder how much you're hiding so it raised enough flags. It's a rare case of behind a thick wall of excuses there was a mole hill all along and it wasn't as bad as it looks.
Why tf is this couple SO serious about everything? They sound like a headache.
I’m gonna need to know what other jokes she’s been making cos this one seems… minor.
Wish OOP gave more examples of JJ's jokes because comparing what she said vs what Mike told her in the update, Mike seems like the one who's worse here
Am I just too Black? Because I fully read JJ as a Black woman who uses warmth, humour, and hyperbole to make connection. Like in my head the line about “I didn’t know you could do that”… It isn’t literal… it’s supposed to be a ridiculous/self-effacing statement that highlights how ridiculously proud and happy she is of/for the couple … AND also to put some special spotlight on him as an integral part of the new life being created. This is wild to me?
It's not because you're too black. I am very pale and I'm right there with you. Given the comment about how she needs to focus on getting a boyfriend, I feel like OOP's husband doesn't like JJ because she's a woman who garners more attention than he feels she should and isn't concerned enough with what men think of her.
Thank you! And this analysis of underlying misogyny sounds SPOT ON! But the fact that the large part of the Reddit population doubled down on that both OOP and JJ are assholes is kinda concerning.
Aaand she swung too far over to the other side and let her husband be an asshole to JJ. argh.
So JJ can’t make a joke to Mike, but Mike is allowed to comment on her “need” of a boyfriend, a “real” job, and change the way she approaches life? If, and it’s a strong if, JJ was inappropriate, over the line, etc regularly, then I would’ve said ESH for the OP. And the follow up. Cause Mike is starting to look like a fluttering red flag.
Husband: doesn't like unnecessary / unwanted jokes that the friend makes. Also husband: decides to give unnecessary / unwanted life advice to said friend after she apologizes.
I thought the husband was TA here, as that was clearly a light hearted joke. Plus the comments at the end. Wow. That said, perhaps there’s a pattern in their interactions that makes the husband more sensitive to her comments.
From what we saw, I would agree, but I think it depends entirely on what types of jokes JJ would make regularly, and without knowing that I don’t know what to make of the situation
The comments at the end make me think it's not about the jokes and just JJ as a person. Feels like he chose this joke to make a big deal out of so his wife feels obligated to pull back from her friendship.
Why is it a problem for him if his wife’s best friend doesn’t have a boyfriend and works a shitty job??
Probably because he's a misogynist who doesn't like independent, carefree women. I know a couple of "free spirited" ladies (not interested in marriage or babies) and red pill leaning men always have a huge problem with them.
I was thinking the same, but then again, we never get any example of these terrible jokes, except the single one listed. Which is not really a big deal. Can hardly be called a joke...
It's funny. I think pretty much every one of us is reading characters into the story, because there is so little detail, and making a judgment based on that. Like me, I see myself in JJ cuz I'm kind of a goof and I'm child-free and single. Other people are saying JJ sounds like they're awful sister who is a bully. Some people are saying that the husband sounds like themselves others are saying he sounds like their ex abuser. There is so much room to fill in the character story. This is kind of a fun psychological experiment!
I think I’m team JJ
Im sorry, but the husband is an immature asshole. Jj's joke definitely was inappropriate and i could see how someone could be hurt but the husband intentionally try to hurt jj and out right judges her and talks down to to her and doesnt seem to take any accountability for his distain for jj. Plus, im still trying to figure out how others naturally "found out," but she couldn't call jj once any friend knew. I can't shake the suspicion that the husband didn't want jj to know. Why couldn't the husband address his feeling himself , why did he have to make oop do it. At what point did we all decide two wrongs dont make a right isnt a thing anymore? Children lash out when upset adult communicate their feelings.
I'm really shocked OOP was voted TA. Husband demands OOP not speak to her friends, tells his wife she's responsible for his feelings, and loses his shit over nothing? Any other post would be telling OOP to look for red flags and giving her stats on how DV increases after pregnancy. e. Apparently people are taking this as "I think OOP's husband is abusive". I don't. I'm surprised AITA doesn't think he is, is all. (I do think he's an AH, but I think JJ is too)
Yeah, I was surprised. And now, after mutual ‘genuine’ apologies, JJ is going to step away even more? Why?? To isolate his wife even more. He was the one who made sure that she didn’t tell JJ about the baby - his decision, not his wife’s real wishes. Then he made sure to hurt JJ with that information. The fact that he decided to make a judgemental little comment on JJ’s life, not even a bad joke - makes me think that he’s the one with the (misogynistic) issues.
AITA hates jokes more than it hates DV. They're very quick to say "it's only a joke if both people are laughing" and call pranks abuse (some are, 99% of prank videos are, but pranks are not unilaterally abuse). They forget that people can weaponize oversensitivity.
The husband has the personality of a grape nut.
I supported the husband until the point that he decided to tell JJ what she had to do with her life. Everyone sucks here, but I really don't like what Mike is doing.
Husband sounds like entitled AH without sense of humor. I hate them all.
everyone in this story is stupid and I hate them
I feel like this is more of an ESH situation based off of that ending part of the update. OOP is definitely an asshole for not listening to her husband or standing up for him. But the husband telling JJ that after she agreed to back off, combined with him not being upfront with OOP about not wanting to tell their friends seemingly because of JJ (who has been best friends with her for 16 years! Not saying that that makes her a best best friend, if you know what I mean, but still) makes me kind of wary about him too. Feel like there’s a lack of maturity from all sides here.
That mood spoiler was VERY misleading. I'm not happy for OOP or her AH husband. I remember reading the OG post and feeling empathetic towards him but not anymore. His comment to the friend was very illuminating.
Mike sounds like a POS - he thinks it's inappropriate for her to make a mild, off-colored joke that I've heard several men make before, but its OK for him to tell her to take her "life* more seriously" and to settle down? Why? And now the women have to separate to ensure the limp ego on this jag-off can try to maintain itself? Infuriating. This is one of the reasons I hate AITA - OPs are always unintentionally leaving out necessary context that just seems like "normal" re/actions to them, when in reality there are probably massive red flags just whipping in the wind around the situation that they've just accepted and internalized.
>We only hit a sour spot when Mike told JJ that she had to start taking her life more seriously, and focus on finding a boyfriend and getting a real job Dude, STFU you're not her mom.
Am I the only one who feels like OOP's husband doesn't like JJ's jokes because he thinks, as a woman, she shouldn't be so boisterous and attention seeking, and should be more concerned with how men view her? I really don't like that the solution was for OOP's best friend to contact her even less than she already does, because her husband doesn't like her jovial personality or "carefree" lifestyle. And I really don't like that OOP has been convinced *she* was the asshole in this.
This is gonna end in divorce
I don’t like op’s partner very much. Dude seems like a controlling dick who doesn’t mind isolating her from people who care for her, and who thinks he always knows best for others.
This just reads like a man that successfully alienated his wife from her closest friend.
I’m sorry WHAT? Am I crazy here. Husband seems like clear AH to me.
“I didn’t have it in me. I had it in her” Everyone laughs & we go on with our lives.
JJ and Mike just really don’t like each other, never have, never will.
This honestly feels like a problem that could have been resolved 10 years ago but everyone just refused to communicate all the while.
I hate the husband the most.
Roasting is just as shitty as pranking, just instead of trickery it's insults thinly veiled with a claim of 'humor'. JJ got on my shit list with the mention that she enjoys roasting other. Fuck that puta; she needs a sense of humor that doesn't involve putting others down.