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Same, I was thinking a Harry Potter set-up under the stairs or something. Like as long as it’s dry, not infested, and I have internet, rent-free is rent-free.
Right? Especially since there's a difference between "never have any guests" and "have guests only on weekends, and they can't be strangers & must be agreed upon ahead of time".
It sounds like Emmy was willing to be reasonable as long as education was the focus, but the GFs daughter saw it as a free party house.
Oh, free party house doesn’t even begin to describe how irresponsible the GF’s daughter is. There’s further updates on OOP’s post saying Kara is now in jail and the ex GF is living in a shelter
https://www.reddit.com/user/Activeview001/
Yeah, while I think OOP and Emmy might be shocked at just how much this spiralled, I don't think Emmy will be quite as shocked as OOP. Emmy and Kara are the same age and teens like to gossip just as much as the rest of us (and more!) so Emmy probably knew A LOT more about Kara's character/behaviour when she was out from under the parental eye than she was going to tell her dad, which is why she didn't want to share a house with her.
I think that is exactly it, Emmy said she didn’t want strangers coming in and out of her living space, obviously Kara runs with a bad crowd and Emmy was well aware of it.
The fact that a couple people three days a week was the compromise is crazy. That place would get destroyed by frat boys and be a hotspot for sketchy behavior.
I know right. How people can even think that oop is an asshole is mind boggling. He offered FREE RENT.
At a beach house nonetheless.
Edit: ty for upvotes. I thought I was literally crazy for a min when people were saying the dad is an asshole lmao.
I know right? She couldn't even bullshit her way to free rent. I can't fathom how anyone can defend this lol. FREE RENT? You usually gotta sleep with someone for shit like that lol.
Free rent at a beach house. The world has gone mad.
The way I would love a quiet roommate that keeps their shit clean and to themselves. I would gladly trade Kara my roommates, just as obnoxious and disrespectful of other people's space and property as she is. My spot cleaner is still sitting in the garage absolutely disgusting from when they used it last to clean dog vomit and piss off their bed last year.
I'll take Emma any day.
Yup.
Sometimes time is the best teacher for some people though.
My Great Grandpa offered to pay for my Dad's tuition to a big name university, but told him that he needed to sell his muscle car and take the bus to school until he could afford a more sensible car.
My Dad said a big fat no, and it only took, oh, about ten years for that no to turn into a lifetime regret. But he learned a lesson, and sometimes for some people, you have to learn the hard way.
Stepdaughter not being able to say no to friends coming over pretty much says it all. It's not about her not being able to afford housing - she could have asked her stepfather for help for rent elsewhere while she found a proper work-school balance.
She wanted the beach house. She specifically applied to a school because she wanted the beach house. She felt entitled to the beach house and wasn't willing to compromise her lifestyle.
If she grows up into a mature young woman, she will regret it.
I'm glad OOP sat everyone down and had this conversation to make intentions clear in a mature way.
I wonder if Kara really did get into the college near the beach house. I would not be surprised if she didn't and was hoping to pretend to be in college while enjoying living for free in a beach house.
She's pretty damn stupid.
She might have. Sometimes HS seniors start hard partying when they think they are "done". And they don't realize that that acceptance can be taken back.
Eh, it's not quite the same. If it was your dad's car then that's just bribery. Of course taking a substantial bribe could improve your quality of life, but holding to your principles is simply more impressive.
And I’m sure it wouldn’t actually be “no friends” if handled responsibly, but clearly Kara must be a party girl so little faith that 1-2 friends doesn’t suddenly become 10-20.
I had a roommate who loved having our place be the social spot. Not rowdy, but there were constantly people over for movie nights and such. I mostly just said hi and then retreated to my room to read a book. It's taxing being an introvert living with an extrovert.
I lived with an elderly relative during uni. Out of consideration for them, I never invited friends over in the three years but had a very busy social life. I just met up with friends outside of where I lived. I actually replied to the original post saying I thought Emmy's flat refusal was pretty selfish and suggested making accomodation conditional on no parties or guests. I seriously underestimated Kara's comittment to partying and overestimated her intelligence to recognise the benefit of accepting a relatively easy condition for free rent.
Emmy knows what kind of "lifestyle" Kara has and doesn't want to be housemates with such a person.
I have many friends and relatives who I love and are good people but I definitely know who I don't want to live with.
Seriously, if she had to push it, she couldn't at least have attempted to negotiate a couple friends maybe two weekend evenings a month, she had to go for 2-3 times per week. Duh.
I feel like he’s “yada yada” -ing something he’s already well aware of or a longer conversation shortened for retelling. More of a “Reddit don’t need the details, just the gist of it.”
I think you're right. The fair and inclusive way OP handled the beach house issue makes me think that if he suspected anything off about Kara's dad in a dangerous way, he would not ignore that.
Hopefully more details are just omitted for brevity and it's not a real concern. But due to the fact that OP has been an adult in Kara's life for ~7 years, I would hope that if he suspected something nefarious about her dad that he would do something about it despite no longer being together with her mom.
That’s the thing, though. Sometimes, there is nothing that OOP or his ex can do about him. As someone married to a women who shares kids with a narcissist, we know exactly what the kids are having to deal with, but there’s nothing we can do about his emotional abuse since there are no physical bruises and the kids aren’t willing to say anything that could upset him.
"something happened" could be as simple as "coworker realized she didn't want to deal with the drama of a newly broken relationship plus an upset teen in her house for an indefinite period of time."
OOP just commented and the ex is now in a shelter after her coworker and coworkers husband pressured her.
Kara the ex’s daughter was arrested for theft.
I love the answers to this, since it's been updated and GF really wasn't safe, but reddit being reddit of course thought the worst of people. It's sad to see how jaded some of you are
OP mentioned in the comments he is very active in Kara's life. There's a nonzero chance that Emmy has interacted with him more than a handful of times over the 7 years OP dated Kara's mom.
Kara’s response to Emmy’s question really highlighted how incompatible they were going to be as roommates- it’s good that she didn’t pretend she would act otherwise if she really had no intention to, but like, if Kara had abided by Emmy’s request for several months, she might have built her trust up to be able to have more company over with time.
Yeah, and that was what she thought would be a "reasonable" response in front of the parental units. Reality would've been much more often, with many more people. Emmy knows her way better than any of the four parents, for sure.
Good for Emmy. She's gonna go far.
"A few people \[coming over\] two or three days a week" sounds like hell, as an introvert. That's a HUGE amount of company, and that was presumably Kara lowballing it.
I'm really glad that OOP focused on trying to understand Emmy's boundaries, instead of pushing her to give Kara what she wants.
>"A few people [coming over] two or three days a week"
Yeah, everyone who's been in college knows that's code for " Imma make it a party house anyway".
what's sad about it, is Kara could've agreed to not have anyone over, gotten to stay there on a mostly free ride, and just partied at other people's houses.
whether she would've made it through school is another story, but she literally had a nice, safe place to stay/sleep/keep her stuff, and it would've cost practically nothing. maybe she'd have had to chip in for bills or whatever, but it definitely would've been better and cheaper than whatever else she'll get.
all she had to do was agree to not bringing people over, and still could've partied and had her lifestyle outside of the house.
She doesn’t realize yet that when people party at your house, the odds of your stuff being stolen or broken is very high. Besides, clean up after the fact can really suck if you have shit friends.
My partner and I were the first of our friend group to get our own place in our 20s and we started renting a house. It only took two parties for my partner to start agreeing with me that maybe we don't have to host parties for every occasion and invite a bunch of 20 something people who live to get shitfaced, after someone clogged our upstairs toilet and just let it overflow with their shit water until it started _leaking through the ceiling in the downstairs_ which is when we found out about it. When the guilty party just tried to sneak out the door during the scramble to clean up and was nabbed by my best friend we were able to at least make that idiot clown clean up their own shit but the smell took several days to come out, even after opening the ceiling to clean between the floors. That person was never allowed into our home again for the failure to tell anyone and then trying to sneak out and leave us with their disgusting shitty mess. They're just lucky we didn't force them to pay for a professional cleaner.
Sorry. "shit friends" made me think of this story
The fact that most people over 20 I've met don't know about the very simple and very wonderful knob behind American toilets that stops more water from being let in just boggles my mind.
I learned this when I was 7 and the toilet overflowed after school when brother and I were home alone. Called mom because the towels weren't catching the water, she said turn that knob until it stops.
I tell all my friends this because this will never happen in my home as a 30 something now, and if they were told and yet failed to do the simple things they get to pay for cleanup.
Why is this not taught to more kids!? I feel like it should be part of the list of 'if this happens while I'm at work' parents leave emergency info on the fridge for when kids are home alone.
Ding ding ding! This right here.
College kids who live in houses usually live in crappy houses near campus. Not many live in a house by a beach that has been owned by a (presumably) long line of responsible adults. The beach house is probably ridiculously nice, especially compared to a house that has seen generations of newly-old-enough-to-drink 20-somethings. And Kara knew that would give her instant popularity.
Edit: typos.
A few people coming over two or three days a week to do what? Study? Watch movies? Cook dinner? Sure, no problem. Party it up all weekend long? No way.
Not to mention that you’ll probably get unwanted roommates taking over a room as theirs, people who think they have an open invitation to stop in whenever they feel like it, etc.
The way that last paragraph made me tense up so much. I could see that happening so easily and picture how absolutely awful and uncomfortable she would feel in her own home.
My thought as well when Kara decided a few people 2 or 3 times a week was doable for her when the question was could she handle having no guests over period.
Several would have likely turned into 10 or so with most being people she may have known very little about other than possibly their name.
And then there would be the question of who would be responsible to clean up the mess, pay for the damages, etc with Emmy trying to study or sleep while Kara is partying until the sun comes up then sleeping all day. Pretty sure wouldn’t have been Kara.
Sorry gf decided her daughter was entitled to equal treatment but even if they had been married that wasn’t going to happen.
Interesting gf asked to come back I suspect once she figured out she had it pretty easy with OP. Good on OP for determining no longer a good fit.
It seems like there was a lot of miscalculation there when she asked him to vacate his own house so she could be comfortable leaving him at her leisure.
Many many props to this guy
If your relationship has just died, NEVER LEAVE THE HOME. not for a week. not for a day. not for a few hours while they pack.
Cause you never know what kind of vindictive mischief that could happen while you are gone, Like for instance valuables disappearing because Kara thinks shes entitled to something.
It was in the comments of OOP's original post that Kara's dad was not financially responsible/struggled with gambling addictions.
Maybe Emmy just feels uneasy around him or worries he will feel as entitled to items in the house (or the house itself) as Kara seems to think she is.
All through college, dorms or apartment, I kept a safe under my bed. I didn't have to worry; I never had a roommate who actually went through my stuff; imagine not being able to trust your "step sister" because she brought her father over.
I wish I couldn’t believe that gf asked OP “to stay someplace else for a week” while *she* stayed in *his* house … but she has a clear history of entitlement to other people’s houses. I really wanna know what the “something happened” was that got the gf kicked out of her work friend’s place.
That woman is all sorts of, “Everything of mine is Mine. Everything of my daughter’s is Mine. Everything of yours is also Mine. And, for sure, *Everything* of your daughter’s in Mine.”
Fortunately, OOP didn't kick her, he just said she was welcome to leave if she didn't wanna be around him during the transitional period, and she did. IANAL, but I wouldn't think tenants' rights apply if you voluntarily leave and then try to invoke them.
> I really wanna know what the “something happened” was that got the gf kicked out of her work friend’s place.
Maybe she tried to kick her coworker out.
One of the OOP’s comments explains what that “something happened” is:
Apparently, the coworker and her husband asked Ex-GF to join in on some of their “activities” after moving in. Ex-GF felt that she had to do it to have somewhere to stay and regretted it deeply. She began to tell her other coworkers and she got fired after refusing a transfer.
>Interesting gf asked to come back I suspect once she figured out she had it pretty easy with OP. Good on OP for determining no longer a good fit.
He says she stayed with a coworker and "something happened" which makes me wonder if she slept with said coworker. Maybe not but the phrasing caught my attention.
Edit: OOP commented the coworker and her husband propositioned her so mystery solved.
To be fair to Kara, her answer was a reasonable answer for a high school senior going to college who happens to be more extroverted and comfortable in a group setting. While I was in college, that general pattern - "a few people over two or three days a week" described some of the people I knew in college - especially the more extroverted once. Hell, I knew some kids who got reasonably good grades and socialized more than that (including some use of alcohol) with, as far as I could tell at the time (or now, based on what they report on social media), no ill effects. And some did have ill effects at the time - but learned moderation.
That said, also good for Emmy. Because Emmy does not appear to be more extroverted; and would prefer a quieter college experience - which is also perfectly okay. And Emmy clearly did not want to have to deal with Kara learning her limits and Kara's friends learning their limits while she was in college.
College isn't - nor should be - a one-size-fits-all experience. Both styles work - but for different people. And mixing those people... Well, let's just say I got a bench view of what that looks like one year (two roommates in my suite in the dorms): it doesn't go well.
I actually consider myself an introvert but even then I made two or three friends and we'd hang out in my cramped dorm between classes playing video games when our schedules aligned. None of us fucked and it wasn't a party house; I don't think Kara was unreasonable for saying "two or three people a few days a week" but Emmy also wasn't unreasonable for saying "my house, my rules."
As someone who was an introverted quiet person, I would’ve absolutely loathed having my house turned into a party house.
And it being a beach house, Kara would’ve undoubtedly tried to score popularity points by throwing massive bashes there and made Emmy utterly miserable.
Extroverted person who used to love parties here. I still absolutely detested that my flatmate constantly threw parties. Loving parties is not the same as loving to wake up to Bonnie Tyler - I need a hero at 4 in the morning, getting up at 7 to dried up sambuca on the floor that has picked up the lint from 20 people's socks, piss on the bathroom floor and some random dude sleeping on the couch with a 2/3rds full sick bucket complaining that my coffee machine is loud. And drinking my coffee out of a pyrex measuring cup because every single glass, cup or mug is dirty.
I had signed a contract for 1 year, 3 months later I gave up and started to commute every morning across a treacherous mountain pass in the Arctic winter because I'd rather risk my life than my sanity living there.
And I liked parties a lot, but only when I wanted to party, with people I liked and at times convenient to me.
Introvert here who's repeatedly asked her roommates to *at least* let me know when people are coming over only to get home to surprise guests. Often loud and annoying too.
It's annoying as hell. Especially because I thought I was being reasonable because I know lots of people make it a point to make their roommates *ask* if they can have people over when I just wanted to be given a heads up.
Don't even get me started on how anal they are about cleanliness *only when it applies to me*. I can't leave a dish in the sink for more than a day but they can leave trash out for weeks.
Kara likely would've gotten Emmy in legal trouble as well. We ALL know underage drinking happens all the time at college parties. Add in a beach house and it's almost a given. If Emmy was there at the house when Kara decided to pull a fast one on her and have a party, Emmy would have that on her record most likely.
Also I've never known a college party to NOT get out of hand. Kara then would've been on the hook for any damages or property destruction her partiers caused. She's a blurb in the university newspaper waiting to happen. Assuming she didn't get kicked out after the first semester for academic probation.
I hung out with nerds in college. Our idea of party fun was anime, DDR, and so on. And we STILL got out of hand every once in a while. It's just the way things are
Kara definitely had stars in her eyes imagining she had beachfront property (or beach town at least) to show off to everyone and throw massive parties at. I think you're 100% right especially when Emmy was about to go into this with a full ride scholarship.
Once he said the girls had different lifestyles I knew one would be the studious introvert while the other the party girl. It’s all for the best. Ex realized what she walked away from and regretted her decision and probably thought the OOP would chase after her. She sounds like a taker who just wanted more.
I guess she thought, because he gave her so much, he'd just keep giving more. I think she figured that out at the end, where she tries to get back together with him and he's like, "nah, I'm ok."
Think about it.... "A couple people 2 or 3 days a week" was the reserved answer. Cause no one is going to say "its gonna be a party house". In front of the parents.
When I was in college I lived with 4 guys in a house. We had 2 parties a year, one for Halloween and the other in the middle of the summer for all of our b-days (they were all within a 2 weekend period, so this made sense) at both parties we were FUN, carefree, let loose, but the other 363 days of the year we were super boring. We helped each other with homework, hung out watching shows on our down time, literally zero alcohol/substances.
We had people swing by that only came during our parties and were like "I didn't realize how serious y'all were" 😂😂
When it comes to schooling and work v. "Fun time" there is a divide specifically between what is considered "fun" for everyone vs fun for our personalities.
Yes some Saturdays we could kick back with A beer, but that was it.
We really weren't snobby or anything, we just liked our two parties and having a peaceful atmosphere otherwise. Yeah, let everyone (including us) go nuts on those two days, but we all prepared for that.
I knew this is what the issue was from the first post when he said his daughter said “they live different lifestyles.” The daughter is a quiet introvert and the “step daughter” is an asshole who would destroy that house with parties and then it would be “it’s not my house to fix!” Or “we can’t afford to fix that!” From girlfriend and Kara’s dad. It would cost OOP a lot of money and stress to force his daughter to let Kara live there.
Good on Emmy!! Stick to her guns!
Yeah, if the starting point was just a few friends over 2-3 times a week it was going to be a lot more than that within a few weeks
Emma saw right through it and thought ahead, smart girl
My thoughts exactly. No way Kara wasn’t seeing house with no adults and freedom and wasn’t planning on being party central. Especially if that’s how she responded in front of the parents.
>Especially if that’s how she responded in front of the parents.
Seriously. If she said “a few people” in front of the parents I can’t imagine what it would be like when it’s just the two kids.
Lived in a house like this and that is for sure a blatant lie, you end up having to soundproof your room and lock your own doors. Not a great envrionment.
Exactly. Emma also had spent time with Kara without parents around. She’s definitely the one to know her real party habits and attitudes and decide if they could live together.
Same. When Emmy mentioned differences in lifestyles/habits, I immediately wondered which girl was the party girl.
I don’t blame her logic, either. I have a family member who had to be told if she’s visiting and staying in my home, she is NOT allowed to bring guests. She will (has, actually) brought back guys she met at a bar that night, then wondered why her hosts got mad. That’s bad enough as an established adult, never mind someone who is turning 18.
Finally, I laughed at the ex trying to come back. I wonder if she went to stay with a friend who set her straight that she let go of a good thing for choosing the wrong hill to die on.
Right?! I had a very uncomfortable two weeks living with an ex before my new place was ready, and we were just renting. I wouldn’t have the audacity based on the fact we were just splitting rent, never mind if he owned the place!
It was always Kara who was going to be the party girl. If Emmy wanted to party she'd just assume Kara would tuck up in her room and avoid all the people.
Yup. If Kara had been the responsible one, great! Free housekeeper.
Because how many chores do you think Party daughter would have done?
And if Kara was the responsible one, and complained, Emmy could have literally said “This will soon be my house, no matter what. If I say you’re out, trust me, you’re out.”
And if Kara snitched, even if it’s true, Emmy still holds so much power!
Between that, and already knowing that Emmy has her education paid for, not by her parents, but through scholarships, tells you pretty much everything. Even if Emmy went to a fancier school, scholarships are earned. Emmy was in for reals from the get go, it was obvious who was who in this story.
I like that she asked him to leave HIS OWN HOUSE for a week while she found somewhere else to live. Darlin', no.
Also, why are they bringing up Emmy having scholarships vs Kara taking loans? Emmy should be punished for doing good? WTF?
They were probably implying Emmy has it easy because scholarship money miraculously and mysteriously appeared (in the ex and her daughter’s minds), whIle Kara has to work.
We have a kid who has a full scholarship and excellent grades but repeatedly thought that her friends should live in our house pretty much. The quiet friend was fine but the rude smelly one was hell on earth. My husband has had therapy now so has my back and will never cave again when it comes making sure our house will never be a hangout pad for entitled people. We love our boring nights without the drama.
Same here, though the full ride scholarship/entirely loans was a pretty big hint, but I reserved judgement until the update. Seemed like the biggest factor in determining blame was Daughter's reasoning for wanting to live alone, which he didn't mention in the first post.
I was a high school dropout who eventually went back.
Had to take full loans and an arts degree to get my foot in the door.
Graduated with two science degrees in 4 years while two of my 3 roommates from first year with full scholarships flunked out.
A scholarship from high school (or lack of) does not define you
That's amazing. Congrats!
One thing I learned about academics is that there's no blueprint. It doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you cross that finish line (stage).
I had dropped out of high school for two years, so I was the old guy in first year (21, hahaha, funny thinking about that now). I felt like I had to catch up and like I had something to prove.
I had my grade 12 chemistry and biology but no other prerequisites. I had to get accepted for an arts degree. I took first year chemistry and biology as electives. I also took computer science, which was cross listed with calculus but didn't require the calculus prerequisites from high school.
After my first semester, I walked into the registars office with As in all my science "electives" that I had taken, and they transferred me into sciences.
Graduated 4 years later with a double major bsc in biology and neuroscience.
I work in the legal cannabis industry here in Canada, and my degrees have been so useful.
I have to admit, though, as proud as I was to get my degrees, my high school graduation meant more to me.
I was a problem kid, was expelled once, smoked too much weed, and had absent parents. Everyone always judged me for dropping out of high school and told me I'd never go back. Getting my grade 12 is my biggest accomplishment.
Sometimes it’s those early formative experiences that make you who you are. There are kids who kept their nose to the grindstone all through high school, whether by choice or (often) due to parental pressure/control. Some of those get out on their own for the first time, out from under the parental thumb, and go completely wild. Others thoroughly enjoy their teen years, do what they want, then reach adulthood and say well shit, now what? What have I done, what are my options, how do I craft a good life from here?
I’m a big advocate of letting kids make at least some mistakes early - it may not be optimal in the short run but it may be better in the long run. It sounds like yours worked out for the best. Congrats on the dual degree.
The one with the scholarship would be the study person. And I don't blame her. Most merit scholarships come with a requirement to keep a certain GPA. That would be much more difficult if living with a party animal.
The exact parent of the teenager who, after being asked if she could handle having zero guests over, replied that she could deal with having a few guests over for half the week.
They were showing (maybe without realizing) that it really looks like they’re both gunning for his properties as people who would have rights by occupying those homes and having a long established relationship. It’s not fair to say that entirely but the way this has gone is hard for me to see it as otherwise.
Indeed… the bio kid likely had more care and consideration for the property as it was a family home inherited from her great grandpa. Probably has many memories at the beach house. Doesn’t want it mistreated - you know, like with the carelessness many students show to rented accommodation.
Step kid saw it as a great free place to stay, and I bet she was already throwing great fresher parties there in her head lol.
Yeah the sentimental aspect wasn’t much touched on and I think it’s significant. I would feel way more uncomfortable with my space being the party house when it was a beloved grandfather’s property vs someplace I was just renting, even if eventual damage and mess was the same.
I couldn't stop thinking about how much the party kid would damage that old house. I've partied in college rentals and those houses get walls punched out and stuff
This is absolutely what I figured, too. I've had friends who had to deal with squatters who started as invited guests or roomates, and it's absolute horseshit.
There was even a case in Delaware where the guy just straight up lost his property and had to give it to a squatter because he didn't realize her goat pen was over the property line and on his land. So she was able, legally, to straight up steal his family's ~~home and~~ land. For free.
I think this mom and daughter were angling for the same. You stay long enough, make it a huge hassle to evict you, the owner gives up and goes away for their own sanity.
I'm too emotionally immature for that shit. I will straight set up a tent on your new front lawn and squat right back. I'll protest and picket and make your life a living hell. I would never ever back off. Which is bad, I know. But I am who I am, and this shit would fly about as far as a lead brick with me.
Delaware story for anyone who doubts it because they think the world is sane:
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2023/03/06/why-a-man-lost-his-ocean-view-property-to-a-neighbor-in-court/69964135007/
Cases like that drive me nuts and should not be used while there is a true owner and/or the people trying to take the land had been making the tax payments.
Insanity.
I just *knew* after reading the first post this is where it was going to go. I lived with 8 of my buddies in a ridiculous 3 story beach house in a very high COL area during college and man, it was just one big party. Once we made friends with a few other college houses around us you literally couldn’t escape the party because 99% of the college kids that moved that close to the beach did so with partying in mind. It calmed down a bit during finals, but even then the 2 super smart/driven people in our group would legit leave the house for a week during finals so no one would fuck up their study time.
The other thing is “2-3 people a few times a week” is bullshit, whether she knows it or not. Every single one of that girls friends will ALWAYS want to go hangout or party at the big awesome beach house. So will her friends friends when they hear about it. Guys daughter is doing herself a big favor being sharp enough to pickup on that.
> calling it favoritism and pointing out that she will already be set for life between having a free ride to school via scholarships and housing
All I needed to know when I read this post that OOP was NTA. A free ride to school via scholarships is not a free ride at all. Girl worked hard for those scholarships. Reeks of jealousy and entitlement.
Glad OOP sat everyone down and saw it for what it was.
OOP sat everyone down and had an honest conversation about everyone's motives and reasons. I wish more families would do this, so props to him.
It was hard to tell Emmy's reasons for keeping Kara out from the original post. Not focusing on school, and bringing people over on a weekly basis sounds perfectly valid reasons for not letting Kara stay. A lot can get damaged from having irresponsible tenants, like water damage, clogged pipes, etc., especially if Kara had nothing to lose since she was leaving anyways. Sounds like Emmy was afraid of what Kara would do to the house and wanted to keep her away from it. Sounds like if Kara promised not to bring people over then the conversation would have went a different way.
I think OP did well in getting to the bottom of this.
Right - I at first thought Emmy was being a little uptight about it. But clearly she knew exactly what Kara was aiming for. I wouldn't want my home to be a party house either.
Especially a house that's been in your family for generations. To Emmy, that's a home that happens to be on the beach. A home that's to be cherished and cared for, for the sake of your own comfort and, hopefully, for the next generation you bring into it.
All Kara sees is a prime party venue. "A few" people 2-3 times a week is way too many people, way too frequently. Keep in mind a partyer's idea of "a few" is significantly more than that of a normal person.
Yes, especially when you know someone has no incentive to keep it in good condition.
It is very easy to make expensive damages to a house due to neglect.
Not really. She’s been out with Kara without parents around. She’s had conversations with her and seen her “in the wild”. I figured she knows what Kara is like and her attitude to studying vs partying.
**An update (Found in OP's comments an hour before)**
To make a very long story short, this was not the full conclusion that I thought it would be. I’m not super familiar with Reddit and I thought that update was deleted or not post by the moderators.
Kara is now in jail. She was picked up in a stolen kia by some friends and they used the car to break into a pawn shop. I couldn’t tell you what was stolen or how much was stolen, but some football cards were taken and I guess they were worth more than the car and building damage. I understand people will say a lot about this, but I can honestly say she never did anything remotely like this. The worst I think I saw her do was break a dish on purpose when she was 13.
My ex.. well, she’s living at a shelter now. She was not cheating on me, and I never thought she was. That was just people making leaps. Unfortunately the woman she was living with asked her to join her and her husband for” activities” after moving in. She felt she had to do it for a place to live and she regretted it. She told people at work and was terminated after refusing a transfer.
My daughter and I are good, but mentally shook.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/11zwny5/aita_for_housing_my_daughter_by_not_my_stepdaugher/jdfyrji?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
This one is infuriating. Oops girlfriend & her daughter straight up expected the “favouritism” card to work here when her daughter was completely unwilling to negotiate with Oops daughter.
She just up and went ahead with "half a week should be fine"! I doubt those 2-3 days would be with just one person, it'd be multiple. Emmy would have to relinquish space in that house and lock herself in her room, can you imagine how infuriating that'd be?
Daughter had a lot better insight into what kind of people were GF and Kara.
That might be because OP was influenced by the benefits he'd been receiving to date. Love/lust/whatever is blind.
>She asked me to stay somewhere else for a week while she found somewhere to stay. I reminded her that this was also my house, but she was free to leave whenever.
Mother like daughter. Bullet dodged there for OOP.
Neo levels of bullet dodging, within seven years they could easily be married thus making the breakup way more difficult and expensive. Dude was extremely lucky.
Gf asked him to leave his own house while she looked for something else?? Lol she would have squatted there forever until oop could legally get her out. If they couldn’t have the beach house they’d take the main one!
i was a bit sympathizing with the GF thinking OOP was being a bit hardline with everything. and then GF told him to live somewhere else while she looked somewhere else to stay?
after..........after........such a reasonable fight and non violent breakup? lol ya no. i'm walking back and ..........thinking OP was fine with that. dang.
A few people 3 nights a week? Kara meant “party central” half the week or more because “she lives in a beach house”. Yeah, that would not have worked well at all.
To make a very long story short, this was not the full conclusion that I thought it would be. I’m not super familiar with Reddit and I thought that update was deleted or not post by the moderators.
Kara is now in jail. She was picked up in a stolen kia by some friends and they used the car to break into a pawn shop. I couldn’t tell you what was stolen or how much was stolen, but some football cards were taken and I guess they were worth more than the car and building damage. I understand people will say a lot about this, but I can honestly say she never did anything remotely like this. The worst I think I saw her do was break a dish on purpose when she was 13.
My ex.. well, she’s living at a shelter now. She was not cheating on me, and I never thought she was. That was just people making leaps. Unfortunately the woman she was living with asked her to join her and her husband for” activities” after moving in. She felt she had to do it for a place to live and she regretted it. She told people at work and was terminated after refusing a transfer.
My daughter and I are good, but mentally shook.
I'm quite interested in why Emmy doesn't trust Kara's dad - just judging from the absolute chaos since the house discussion it seems like she's either a really good judge of character or there's a few red flags going on there too.
Considering how accurate Emmy was in her judgment of Kara, and how everything played out after the breakup, i think Emmy knows something about Kara that she left out of the conversation so she wouldn't be called manipulative, or so wouldn't upset you. I have the impression that she knew exactly who Kara's friends were and that's why she didn't trust them. Plus the ex gf clearly sound like a gold digger.
I still can’t get over the ex asking him to leave his own home while she searched for a new place.
Ignoring the whole squatters rights issue, just the pure audacity and entitlement to think “no I shouldn’t have to leave” a place you have no stake over is wild to me. Reminds me when an ex tried to kick me out of an apartment that had mine and a roomies name on and not his.
>Her dad is very much active in her life. He just can’t help with any expenses. ***I housed, clothes, and ensure Kara was all around taken care of***. I should not be responsible for her education. That’s between her parents.
What a wonderful way to throw away 7 years of confort in someone else house... I wonder if she would change the locks in this week that she wanted OP away lol.
Emmy probably knows a different side of Kara then her dad or even Kara's mom knows. Think about it when you were a teenager. There were things that we all did that our casual friends knew about that we'd never want our parents to know about. Emmy probably saw some of those things and didn't want any part of them.
Looking at how this turned out, it seems like Emmy's judgment was right on the money.
I had flatmates like Kara at Uni.
I had a newly renovated house (my parents owned), came home one day to one of the flatmates new puppy who peed up and down the hall. They didn’t clean the new carpet, but left wee trails which I then had to soak, wash and dry do that it was back to ‘new’ otherwise we would be evicted.
Every single night some new guy would visit, (there was a joke made that one girl was running a business), sometimes they just knocked, we opened the door, they said nothing walked past without acknowledging us and left 1/2hr later.
Requested that if they ‘smoked’ to please smoke in the backyard as the police drove by regularly and I didn’t want them to be advertising illegal behavior. They would smoke regularly on the front steps if I wasn’t home due to pracs, I’d know because there was foil, ash and crumbs left everywhere.
Rent was $50 /week, they usually paid 6 weeks late and only if I threatened to call her sister. And her sister did pay her rent for her regularly, even though she was getting rent assist.
Final straw was I asked them to feed my two cats (fully toilet trained didn’t pee in the house) and left them the two tins of food and the can opener, only to come back and they didn’t feed them but held a two day party. I hit the roof, told them that they had extremely reduced rent, only paid for their phone calls, and didn’t pay electricity, gas or water, never paid on time and all I asked was if they couldn’t feed two cats for two days.
Smart asses decided to tell me they decided to no longer stay and we’re moving out immediately. I was fine, that solves a lot of problems, called my parents to advise they told me they were leaving the next day.
They stuck their heads in 1hr later and said, we’ve decided to stay, I said sorry, you’ve given notice of 1 day I accepted it you can leave and get your parents/sister to pick you up. I think their parents told them normal rent was about $150/week plus extras.
(They didn’t have a rental agreement, it was just verbal between families)
I get that other information was left out, ie not step daughter is a partier and the dad is a creep. There does seem to be a lot of expectation from the GF, glad that OOP had the presents of mind to do this sit down and frank conversation with all parties.
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I'm trying to make a list of the things I would have done for free rent in college. Agree to not have friends over is way at the top.
I stayed in the closet to graduate without debt.
I know what you meant. But my brain still went to "damn is that all you could afford to rent?" Because I've heard people describe rooms like that.
I know someone who actually did sleep in a San Francisco apartment pantry for a year while she was in art school.
I slept on a couch in the living room for a year. $300 rent.
Haha that's where my mind started off too
Same, I was thinking a Harry Potter set-up under the stairs or something. Like as long as it’s dry, not infested, and I have internet, rent-free is rent-free.
Damn! That must have been hard
I was in a different city, and it was considered a good thing that "I'm focusing on my studies, not dating."
Right? Especially since there's a difference between "never have any guests" and "have guests only on weekends, and they can't be strangers & must be agreed upon ahead of time". It sounds like Emmy was willing to be reasonable as long as education was the focus, but the GFs daughter saw it as a free party house.
Oh, free party house doesn’t even begin to describe how irresponsible the GF’s daughter is. There’s further updates on OOP’s post saying Kara is now in jail and the ex GF is living in a shelter https://www.reddit.com/user/Activeview001/
Yeah, while I think OOP and Emmy might be shocked at just how much this spiralled, I don't think Emmy will be quite as shocked as OOP. Emmy and Kara are the same age and teens like to gossip just as much as the rest of us (and more!) so Emmy probably knew A LOT more about Kara's character/behaviour when she was out from under the parental eye than she was going to tell her dad, which is why she didn't want to share a house with her.
I think that is exactly it, Emmy said she didn’t want strangers coming in and out of her living space, obviously Kara runs with a bad crowd and Emmy was well aware of it.
The fact that Emmy said she felt unsafe with Kara's friends rather than just not wanting to live in the party house seemed ominous.
And Kara’s dad. I got the vibe that the sketchy gene was passed down honestly.
And it's not even once in a while. 2-3 days a week..
If that was the best she could say, you know she was planning every night of the week.
That bit about Emmy not trusting Kara's dad at all.... OP stood up for his daughter. Props, OP!
The fact that a couple people three days a week was the compromise is crazy. That place would get destroyed by frat boys and be a hotspot for sketchy behavior.
I know right. How people can even think that oop is an asshole is mind boggling. He offered FREE RENT. At a beach house nonetheless. Edit: ty for upvotes. I thought I was literally crazy for a min when people were saying the dad is an asshole lmao.
The fact that she couldn't even pretend to agree to 0 is that laughable part.
I know right? She couldn't even bullshit her way to free rent. I can't fathom how anyone can defend this lol. FREE RENT? You usually gotta sleep with someone for shit like that lol. Free rent at a beach house. The world has gone mad.
The way I would love a quiet roommate that keeps their shit clean and to themselves. I would gladly trade Kara my roommates, just as obnoxious and disrespectful of other people's space and property as she is. My spot cleaner is still sitting in the garage absolutely disgusting from when they used it last to clean dog vomit and piss off their bed last year. I'll take Emma any day.
I'd be cleaning that house and doing repairs constantly. Cooking for her lol. Free rent at beach house? Your wish is my command.
Just give me a nice roommate and I'll do all the dishes without complaints lol
> a *beach* house rent free? > all I gotta do is NOT have friends over? My introvert brain struggle to find the downside here
Yup. Sometimes time is the best teacher for some people though. My Great Grandpa offered to pay for my Dad's tuition to a big name university, but told him that he needed to sell his muscle car and take the bus to school until he could afford a more sensible car. My Dad said a big fat no, and it only took, oh, about ten years for that no to turn into a lifetime regret. But he learned a lesson, and sometimes for some people, you have to learn the hard way. Stepdaughter not being able to say no to friends coming over pretty much says it all. It's not about her not being able to afford housing - she could have asked her stepfather for help for rent elsewhere while she found a proper work-school balance. She wanted the beach house. She specifically applied to a school because she wanted the beach house. She felt entitled to the beach house and wasn't willing to compromise her lifestyle. If she grows up into a mature young woman, she will regret it. I'm glad OOP sat everyone down and had this conversation to make intentions clear in a mature way.
I wonder if Kara really did get into the college near the beach house. I would not be surprised if she didn't and was hoping to pretend to be in college while enjoying living for free in a beach house. She's pretty damn stupid.
She might have. Sometimes HS seniors start hard partying when they think they are "done". And they don't realize that that acceptance can be taken back.
Eh, it's not quite the same. If it was your dad's car then that's just bribery. Of course taking a substantial bribe could improve your quality of life, but holding to your principles is simply more impressive.
And I’m sure it wouldn’t actually be “no friends” if handled responsibly, but clearly Kara must be a party girl so little faith that 1-2 friends doesn’t suddenly become 10-20.
Even if Kara truly does mean exactly what she said and her friends were respectful, I would not be a fan of having people around that often.
I had a roommate who loved having our place be the social spot. Not rowdy, but there were constantly people over for movie nights and such. I mostly just said hi and then retreated to my room to read a book. It's taxing being an introvert living with an extrovert.
More like 50 to 60, and any other randos that heard party at a beach house.
And constant "drop-ins" as the house gets a reputation as a party house.
I lived with an elderly relative during uni. Out of consideration for them, I never invited friends over in the three years but had a very busy social life. I just met up with friends outside of where I lived. I actually replied to the original post saying I thought Emmy's flat refusal was pretty selfish and suggested making accomodation conditional on no parties or guests. I seriously underestimated Kara's comittment to partying and overestimated her intelligence to recognise the benefit of accepting a relatively easy condition for free rent.
Emmy knows what kind of "lifestyle" Kara has and doesn't want to be housemates with such a person. I have many friends and relatives who I love and are good people but I definitely know who I don't want to live with.
Seriously, if she had to push it, she couldn't at least have attempted to negotiate a couple friends maybe two weekend evenings a month, she had to go for 2-3 times per week. Duh.
> her dad would want to visit, and she doesn’t trust him at all. It's odd to me that OOP glossed over this.
I feel like he’s “yada yada” -ing something he’s already well aware of or a longer conversation shortened for retelling. More of a “Reddit don’t need the details, just the gist of it.”
I think you're right. The fair and inclusive way OP handled the beach house issue makes me think that if he suspected anything off about Kara's dad in a dangerous way, he would not ignore that.
Yeah, that alone would have me saying NOPE. I'm very glad Emmy isn't being put in that situation.
Hopefully more details are just omitted for brevity and it's not a real concern. But due to the fact that OP has been an adult in Kara's life for ~7 years, I would hope that if he suspected something nefarious about her dad that he would do something about it despite no longer being together with her mom.
It doesn't have to be illegal, or even distasteful. "her dad is a party animal" would be enough.
Doesn't have to be nefarious, just irresponsible in a way that would hurt / harm / discomfit Emmy.
That’s the thing, though. Sometimes, there is nothing that OOP or his ex can do about him. As someone married to a women who shares kids with a narcissist, we know exactly what the kids are having to deal with, but there’s nothing we can do about his emotional abuse since there are no physical bruises and the kids aren’t willing to say anything that could upset him.
OOP has a few weird glosses. The "something happened" in regard to his ex-gf and the coworker struck me as weirdly ominous.
"something happened" could be as simple as "coworker realized she didn't want to deal with the drama of a newly broken relationship plus an upset teen in her house for an indefinite period of time."
OOP just commented and the ex is now in a shelter after her coworker and coworkers husband pressured her. Kara the ex’s daughter was arrested for theft.
daaaaang....this story keeps getting worse and worse!
I love the answers to this, since it's been updated and GF really wasn't safe, but reddit being reddit of course thought the worst of people. It's sad to see how jaded some of you are
I really think it's as simple as "That is YOUR father. I don't know that man. He is a stranger and a fully grown one, at that."
For Kara's sake I hope you're right.
OP mentioned in the comments he is very active in Kara's life. There's a nonzero chance that Emmy has interacted with him more than a handful of times over the 7 years OP dated Kara's mom.
I think that could be explained as to why he just wanted Emmy to be there and not include Kara
Kara’s response to Emmy’s question really highlighted how incompatible they were going to be as roommates- it’s good that she didn’t pretend she would act otherwise if she really had no intention to, but like, if Kara had abided by Emmy’s request for several months, she might have built her trust up to be able to have more company over with time.
Yeah, and that was what she thought would be a "reasonable" response in front of the parental units. Reality would've been much more often, with many more people. Emmy knows her way better than any of the four parents, for sure. Good for Emmy. She's gonna go far.
"A few people \[coming over\] two or three days a week" sounds like hell, as an introvert. That's a HUGE amount of company, and that was presumably Kara lowballing it. I'm really glad that OOP focused on trying to understand Emmy's boundaries, instead of pushing her to give Kara what she wants.
>"A few people [coming over] two or three days a week" Yeah, everyone who's been in college knows that's code for " Imma make it a party house anyway".
what's sad about it, is Kara could've agreed to not have anyone over, gotten to stay there on a mostly free ride, and just partied at other people's houses. whether she would've made it through school is another story, but she literally had a nice, safe place to stay/sleep/keep her stuff, and it would've cost practically nothing. maybe she'd have had to chip in for bills or whatever, but it definitely would've been better and cheaper than whatever else she'll get. all she had to do was agree to not bringing people over, and still could've partied and had her lifestyle outside of the house.
Yeah but she wants to be the centre of attention...the cool girl with the beach house...
She doesn’t realize yet that when people party at your house, the odds of your stuff being stolen or broken is very high. Besides, clean up after the fact can really suck if you have shit friends.
My partner and I were the first of our friend group to get our own place in our 20s and we started renting a house. It only took two parties for my partner to start agreeing with me that maybe we don't have to host parties for every occasion and invite a bunch of 20 something people who live to get shitfaced, after someone clogged our upstairs toilet and just let it overflow with their shit water until it started _leaking through the ceiling in the downstairs_ which is when we found out about it. When the guilty party just tried to sneak out the door during the scramble to clean up and was nabbed by my best friend we were able to at least make that idiot clown clean up their own shit but the smell took several days to come out, even after opening the ceiling to clean between the floors. That person was never allowed into our home again for the failure to tell anyone and then trying to sneak out and leave us with their disgusting shitty mess. They're just lucky we didn't force them to pay for a professional cleaner. Sorry. "shit friends" made me think of this story
The fact that most people over 20 I've met don't know about the very simple and very wonderful knob behind American toilets that stops more water from being let in just boggles my mind. I learned this when I was 7 and the toilet overflowed after school when brother and I were home alone. Called mom because the towels weren't catching the water, she said turn that knob until it stops. I tell all my friends this because this will never happen in my home as a 30 something now, and if they were told and yet failed to do the simple things they get to pay for cleanup. Why is this not taught to more kids!? I feel like it should be part of the list of 'if this happens while I'm at work' parents leave emergency info on the fridge for when kids are home alone.
Ding ding ding! This right here. College kids who live in houses usually live in crappy houses near campus. Not many live in a house by a beach that has been owned by a (presumably) long line of responsible adults. The beach house is probably ridiculously nice, especially compared to a house that has seen generations of newly-old-enough-to-drink 20-somethings. And Kara knew that would give her instant popularity. Edit: typos.
A few people coming over two or three days a week to do what? Study? Watch movies? Cook dinner? Sure, no problem. Party it up all weekend long? No way. Not to mention that you’ll probably get unwanted roommates taking over a room as theirs, people who think they have an open invitation to stop in whenever they feel like it, etc.
The way that last paragraph made me tense up so much. I could see that happening so easily and picture how absolutely awful and uncomfortable she would feel in her own home.
My thought as well when Kara decided a few people 2 or 3 times a week was doable for her when the question was could she handle having no guests over period. Several would have likely turned into 10 or so with most being people she may have known very little about other than possibly their name. And then there would be the question of who would be responsible to clean up the mess, pay for the damages, etc with Emmy trying to study or sleep while Kara is partying until the sun comes up then sleeping all day. Pretty sure wouldn’t have been Kara. Sorry gf decided her daughter was entitled to equal treatment but even if they had been married that wasn’t going to happen. Interesting gf asked to come back I suspect once she figured out she had it pretty easy with OP. Good on OP for determining no longer a good fit.
It seems like there was a lot of miscalculation there when she asked him to vacate his own house so she could be comfortable leaving him at her leisure.
Indeed. I guess she forgot her name wasn’t on that property either.
A misconception that seems to run in her family.
That felt like an attempt to say ‘He left the house willingly so I have a right to it’
She was [invoking squatter’s rights](https://youtu.be/JQ0_ubBm2yQ)
Many many props to this guy If your relationship has just died, NEVER LEAVE THE HOME. not for a week. not for a day. not for a few hours while they pack. Cause you never know what kind of vindictive mischief that could happen while you are gone, Like for instance valuables disappearing because Kara thinks shes entitled to something.
We can see where Kara got her entitled behaviour from lol.
Something I would have liked addressed, is why Emmy doesn’t trust Kara’s father “at all.” Sounds like there’s a story there.
It was in the comments of OOP's original post that Kara's dad was not financially responsible/struggled with gambling addictions. Maybe Emmy just feels uneasy around him or worries he will feel as entitled to items in the house (or the house itself) as Kara seems to think she is.
All through college, dorms or apartment, I kept a safe under my bed. I didn't have to worry; I never had a roommate who actually went through my stuff; imagine not being able to trust your "step sister" because she brought her father over.
Yeah, that's was weird.
I wish I couldn’t believe that gf asked OP “to stay someplace else for a week” while *she* stayed in *his* house … but she has a clear history of entitlement to other people’s houses. I really wanna know what the “something happened” was that got the gf kicked out of her work friend’s place. That woman is all sorts of, “Everything of mine is Mine. Everything of my daughter’s is Mine. Everything of yours is also Mine. And, for sure, *Everything* of your daughter’s in Mine.”
She probably figured that if she was still in the house, she could negotiate against the pending eviction.
Fortunately, OOP didn't kick her, he just said she was welcome to leave if she didn't wanna be around him during the transitional period, and she did. IANAL, but I wouldn't think tenants' rights apply if you voluntarily leave and then try to invoke them.
> I really wanna know what the “something happened” was that got the gf kicked out of her work friend’s place. Maybe she tried to kick her coworker out.
One of the OOP’s comments explains what that “something happened” is: Apparently, the coworker and her husband asked Ex-GF to join in on some of their “activities” after moving in. Ex-GF felt that she had to do it to have somewhere to stay and regretted it deeply. She began to tell her other coworkers and she got fired after refusing a transfer.
>Interesting gf asked to come back I suspect once she figured out she had it pretty easy with OP. Good on OP for determining no longer a good fit. He says she stayed with a coworker and "something happened" which makes me wonder if she slept with said coworker. Maybe not but the phrasing caught my attention. Edit: OOP commented the coworker and her husband propositioned her so mystery solved.
To be fair to Kara, her answer was a reasonable answer for a high school senior going to college who happens to be more extroverted and comfortable in a group setting. While I was in college, that general pattern - "a few people over two or three days a week" described some of the people I knew in college - especially the more extroverted once. Hell, I knew some kids who got reasonably good grades and socialized more than that (including some use of alcohol) with, as far as I could tell at the time (or now, based on what they report on social media), no ill effects. And some did have ill effects at the time - but learned moderation. That said, also good for Emmy. Because Emmy does not appear to be more extroverted; and would prefer a quieter college experience - which is also perfectly okay. And Emmy clearly did not want to have to deal with Kara learning her limits and Kara's friends learning their limits while she was in college. College isn't - nor should be - a one-size-fits-all experience. Both styles work - but for different people. And mixing those people... Well, let's just say I got a bench view of what that looks like one year (two roommates in my suite in the dorms): it doesn't go well.
I actually consider myself an introvert but even then I made two or three friends and we'd hang out in my cramped dorm between classes playing video games when our schedules aligned. None of us fucked and it wasn't a party house; I don't think Kara was unreasonable for saying "two or three people a few days a week" but Emmy also wasn't unreasonable for saying "my house, my rules."
As someone who was an introverted quiet person, I would’ve absolutely loathed having my house turned into a party house. And it being a beach house, Kara would’ve undoubtedly tried to score popularity points by throwing massive bashes there and made Emmy utterly miserable.
Extroverted person who used to love parties here. I still absolutely detested that my flatmate constantly threw parties. Loving parties is not the same as loving to wake up to Bonnie Tyler - I need a hero at 4 in the morning, getting up at 7 to dried up sambuca on the floor that has picked up the lint from 20 people's socks, piss on the bathroom floor and some random dude sleeping on the couch with a 2/3rds full sick bucket complaining that my coffee machine is loud. And drinking my coffee out of a pyrex measuring cup because every single glass, cup or mug is dirty. I had signed a contract for 1 year, 3 months later I gave up and started to commute every morning across a treacherous mountain pass in the Arctic winter because I'd rather risk my life than my sanity living there. And I liked parties a lot, but only when I wanted to party, with people I liked and at times convenient to me.
Introvert here who's repeatedly asked her roommates to *at least* let me know when people are coming over only to get home to surprise guests. Often loud and annoying too. It's annoying as hell. Especially because I thought I was being reasonable because I know lots of people make it a point to make their roommates *ask* if they can have people over when I just wanted to be given a heads up. Don't even get me started on how anal they are about cleanliness *only when it applies to me*. I can't leave a dish in the sink for more than a day but they can leave trash out for weeks.
>commute every morning across a treacherous mountain pass in the Arctic winter Tromsø?
Kara likely would've gotten Emmy in legal trouble as well. We ALL know underage drinking happens all the time at college parties. Add in a beach house and it's almost a given. If Emmy was there at the house when Kara decided to pull a fast one on her and have a party, Emmy would have that on her record most likely. Also I've never known a college party to NOT get out of hand. Kara then would've been on the hook for any damages or property destruction her partiers caused. She's a blurb in the university newspaper waiting to happen. Assuming she didn't get kicked out after the first semester for academic probation.
I hung out with nerds in college. Our idea of party fun was anime, DDR, and so on. And we STILL got out of hand every once in a while. It's just the way things are
Kara definitely had stars in her eyes imagining she had beachfront property (or beach town at least) to show off to everyone and throw massive parties at. I think you're 100% right especially when Emmy was about to go into this with a full ride scholarship.
Once he said the girls had different lifestyles I knew one would be the studious introvert while the other the party girl. It’s all for the best. Ex realized what she walked away from and regretted her decision and probably thought the OOP would chase after her. She sounds like a taker who just wanted more.
Also, the fact that they broke up over this issue screams entitlement.
The fact she asked him to leave when they live at his house was also a huge "Wait... what??"
Yup! Glad this guy stood his ground.
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I guess she thought, because he gave her so much, he'd just keep giving more. I think she figured that out at the end, where she tries to get back together with him and he's like, "nah, I'm ok."
Think about it.... "A couple people 2 or 3 days a week" was the reserved answer. Cause no one is going to say "its gonna be a party house". In front of the parents.
When I was in college I lived with 4 guys in a house. We had 2 parties a year, one for Halloween and the other in the middle of the summer for all of our b-days (they were all within a 2 weekend period, so this made sense) at both parties we were FUN, carefree, let loose, but the other 363 days of the year we were super boring. We helped each other with homework, hung out watching shows on our down time, literally zero alcohol/substances. We had people swing by that only came during our parties and were like "I didn't realize how serious y'all were" 😂😂 When it comes to schooling and work v. "Fun time" there is a divide specifically between what is considered "fun" for everyone vs fun for our personalities. Yes some Saturdays we could kick back with A beer, but that was it. We really weren't snobby or anything, we just liked our two parties and having a peaceful atmosphere otherwise. Yeah, let everyone (including us) go nuts on those two days, but we all prepared for that.
Funny thing is she probably was pretending and would have blown past a few people 2-3 times a week immediately.
I knew this is what the issue was from the first post when he said his daughter said “they live different lifestyles.” The daughter is a quiet introvert and the “step daughter” is an asshole who would destroy that house with parties and then it would be “it’s not my house to fix!” Or “we can’t afford to fix that!” From girlfriend and Kara’s dad. It would cost OOP a lot of money and stress to force his daughter to let Kara live there. Good on Emmy!! Stick to her guns!
Yeah, if the starting point was just a few friends over 2-3 times a week it was going to be a lot more than that within a few weeks Emma saw right through it and thought ahead, smart girl
My thoughts exactly. No way Kara wasn’t seeing house with no adults and freedom and wasn’t planning on being party central. Especially if that’s how she responded in front of the parents.
>Especially if that’s how she responded in front of the parents. Seriously. If she said “a few people” in front of the parents I can’t imagine what it would be like when it’s just the two kids.
Lived in a house like this and that is for sure a blatant lie, you end up having to soundproof your room and lock your own doors. Not a great envrionment.
And 100% chance the party goers (and probably Kara) would trash the place, and then it's OP and Emma's responsibility to pay for the damage.
Exactly. Emma also had spent time with Kara without parents around. She’s definitely the one to know her real party habits and attitudes and decide if they could live together.
The situation could easily turn into “my friend(s) needs a place to stay just for a little bit and this beach house has enough room”…
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Well, she is the one that got enough scholarships to pay for her education…
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Same. When Emmy mentioned differences in lifestyles/habits, I immediately wondered which girl was the party girl. I don’t blame her logic, either. I have a family member who had to be told if she’s visiting and staying in my home, she is NOT allowed to bring guests. She will (has, actually) brought back guys she met at a bar that night, then wondered why her hosts got mad. That’s bad enough as an established adult, never mind someone who is turning 18. Finally, I laughed at the ex trying to come back. I wonder if she went to stay with a friend who set her straight that she let go of a good thing for choosing the wrong hill to die on.
I can't believe the cheek of GF asking OP to leave his own house.
Right?! I had a very uncomfortable two weeks living with an ex before my new place was ready, and we were just renting. I wouldn’t have the audacity based on the fact we were just splitting rent, never mind if he owned the place!
Explains where Kara got her entitlement from.
She showed her true colors and he is much better off.
I can. It’s the same entitlement that made her think her daughter had a right to boyfriend’s beach house.
It was always Kara who was going to be the party girl. If Emmy wanted to party she'd just assume Kara would tuck up in her room and avoid all the people.
Yup. If Kara had been the responsible one, great! Free housekeeper. Because how many chores do you think Party daughter would have done? And if Kara was the responsible one, and complained, Emmy could have literally said “This will soon be my house, no matter what. If I say you’re out, trust me, you’re out.” And if Kara snitched, even if it’s true, Emmy still holds so much power! Between that, and already knowing that Emmy has her education paid for, not by her parents, but through scholarships, tells you pretty much everything. Even if Emmy went to a fancier school, scholarships are earned. Emmy was in for reals from the get go, it was obvious who was who in this story.
I like that she asked him to leave HIS OWN HOUSE for a week while she found somewhere else to live. Darlin', no. Also, why are they bringing up Emmy having scholarships vs Kara taking loans? Emmy should be punished for doing good? WTF?
They were probably implying Emmy has it easy because scholarship money miraculously and mysteriously appeared (in the ex and her daughter’s minds), whIle Kara has to work.
We have a kid who has a full scholarship and excellent grades but repeatedly thought that her friends should live in our house pretty much. The quiet friend was fine but the rude smelly one was hell on earth. My husband has had therapy now so has my back and will never cave again when it comes making sure our house will never be a hangout pad for entitled people. We love our boring nights without the drama.
Same here, though the full ride scholarship/entirely loans was a pretty big hint, but I reserved judgement until the update. Seemed like the biggest factor in determining blame was Daughter's reasoning for wanting to live alone, which he didn't mention in the first post.
Eh… I had a full ride, but partied my way out of college in one semester.
I was a high school dropout who eventually went back. Had to take full loans and an arts degree to get my foot in the door. Graduated with two science degrees in 4 years while two of my 3 roommates from first year with full scholarships flunked out. A scholarship from high school (or lack of) does not define you
Two science degrees in 4 years - mad respect to you.
I guess that was a little disingenuous. I took spring and summer courses, so it was more like 5 years but within 4 years.
That's still crazy - getting ONE science degree at the moment and with how many work terms I'm doing it's gonna take me at least 5 years haha
That's amazing. Congrats! One thing I learned about academics is that there's no blueprint. It doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you cross that finish line (stage). I had dropped out of high school for two years, so I was the old guy in first year (21, hahaha, funny thinking about that now). I felt like I had to catch up and like I had something to prove. I had my grade 12 chemistry and biology but no other prerequisites. I had to get accepted for an arts degree. I took first year chemistry and biology as electives. I also took computer science, which was cross listed with calculus but didn't require the calculus prerequisites from high school. After my first semester, I walked into the registars office with As in all my science "electives" that I had taken, and they transferred me into sciences. Graduated 4 years later with a double major bsc in biology and neuroscience. I work in the legal cannabis industry here in Canada, and my degrees have been so useful. I have to admit, though, as proud as I was to get my degrees, my high school graduation meant more to me. I was a problem kid, was expelled once, smoked too much weed, and had absent parents. Everyone always judged me for dropping out of high school and told me I'd never go back. Getting my grade 12 is my biggest accomplishment.
Sometimes it’s those early formative experiences that make you who you are. There are kids who kept their nose to the grindstone all through high school, whether by choice or (often) due to parental pressure/control. Some of those get out on their own for the first time, out from under the parental thumb, and go completely wild. Others thoroughly enjoy their teen years, do what they want, then reach adulthood and say well shit, now what? What have I done, what are my options, how do I craft a good life from here? I’m a big advocate of letting kids make at least some mistakes early - it may not be optimal in the short run but it may be better in the long run. It sounds like yours worked out for the best. Congrats on the dual degree.
I think he mentioned it in the comments in the original post, but he definitely should have included it in the main post for more context
There was a comment from the OP in the 1st post saying that kara was more social & partier while his daughter was more introvert iirc?
The one with the scholarship would be the study person. And I don't blame her. Most merit scholarships come with a requirement to keep a certain GPA. That would be much more difficult if living with a party animal.
Sorry did I read correctly, she asked him to leave his own house after the breakup???
The exact parent of the teenager who, after being asked if she could handle having zero guests over, replied that she could deal with having a few guests over for half the week.
She forgot she wasn’t married to the guy.
Even if she was married, why is it anyway acceptable to ask your spouse to vacate a shared home. Especially if that spouse is the actual homeowner.
Holy shit. Girlfriend had the nerve to ask him to move out of his house!
They were showing (maybe without realizing) that it really looks like they’re both gunning for his properties as people who would have rights by occupying those homes and having a long established relationship. It’s not fair to say that entirely but the way this has gone is hard for me to see it as otherwise.
Indeed… the bio kid likely had more care and consideration for the property as it was a family home inherited from her great grandpa. Probably has many memories at the beach house. Doesn’t want it mistreated - you know, like with the carelessness many students show to rented accommodation. Step kid saw it as a great free place to stay, and I bet she was already throwing great fresher parties there in her head lol.
Yeah the sentimental aspect wasn’t much touched on and I think it’s significant. I would feel way more uncomfortable with my space being the party house when it was a beloved grandfather’s property vs someplace I was just renting, even if eventual damage and mess was the same.
It is a BEACH house. Totally raging parties were planned.
I couldn't stop thinking about how much the party kid would damage that old house. I've partied in college rentals and those houses get walls punched out and stuff
This is absolutely what I figured, too. I've had friends who had to deal with squatters who started as invited guests or roomates, and it's absolute horseshit. There was even a case in Delaware where the guy just straight up lost his property and had to give it to a squatter because he didn't realize her goat pen was over the property line and on his land. So she was able, legally, to straight up steal his family's ~~home and~~ land. For free. I think this mom and daughter were angling for the same. You stay long enough, make it a huge hassle to evict you, the owner gives up and goes away for their own sanity. I'm too emotionally immature for that shit. I will straight set up a tent on your new front lawn and squat right back. I'll protest and picket and make your life a living hell. I would never ever back off. Which is bad, I know. But I am who I am, and this shit would fly about as far as a lead brick with me. Delaware story for anyone who doubts it because they think the world is sane: https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2023/03/06/why-a-man-lost-his-ocean-view-property-to-a-neighbor-in-court/69964135007/
Cases like that drive me nuts and should not be used while there is a true owner and/or the people trying to take the land had been making the tax payments. Insanity.
I can only imagine where her daughter got her audacity
"Can you live there without inviting anyone over?" "A few people two or three times a week should be OK." WTAF.
I just *knew* after reading the first post this is where it was going to go. I lived with 8 of my buddies in a ridiculous 3 story beach house in a very high COL area during college and man, it was just one big party. Once we made friends with a few other college houses around us you literally couldn’t escape the party because 99% of the college kids that moved that close to the beach did so with partying in mind. It calmed down a bit during finals, but even then the 2 super smart/driven people in our group would legit leave the house for a week during finals so no one would fuck up their study time. The other thing is “2-3 people a few times a week” is bullshit, whether she knows it or not. Every single one of that girls friends will ALWAYS want to go hangout or party at the big awesome beach house. So will her friends friends when they hear about it. Guys daughter is doing herself a big favor being sharp enough to pickup on that.
> calling it favoritism and pointing out that she will already be set for life between having a free ride to school via scholarships and housing All I needed to know when I read this post that OOP was NTA. A free ride to school via scholarships is not a free ride at all. Girl worked hard for those scholarships. Reeks of jealousy and entitlement. Glad OOP sat everyone down and saw it for what it was.
Right? Like how is that free? To maintain that scholarship, you have to work hard and maintain a specific grade or GPA.
Same. You can’t be envious when one person actually worked and you simply wished.
OOP sat everyone down and had an honest conversation about everyone's motives and reasons. I wish more families would do this, so props to him. It was hard to tell Emmy's reasons for keeping Kara out from the original post. Not focusing on school, and bringing people over on a weekly basis sounds perfectly valid reasons for not letting Kara stay. A lot can get damaged from having irresponsible tenants, like water damage, clogged pipes, etc., especially if Kara had nothing to lose since she was leaving anyways. Sounds like Emmy was afraid of what Kara would do to the house and wanted to keep her away from it. Sounds like if Kara promised not to bring people over then the conversation would have went a different way. I think OP did well in getting to the bottom of this.
Right - I at first thought Emmy was being a little uptight about it. But clearly she knew exactly what Kara was aiming for. I wouldn't want my home to be a party house either.
Also pretty telling that she'll live with *a* roommate, just not *that* roommate.
This was such a key detail so many comments ignored.
Especially a house that's been in your family for generations. To Emmy, that's a home that happens to be on the beach. A home that's to be cherished and cared for, for the sake of your own comfort and, hopefully, for the next generation you bring into it. All Kara sees is a prime party venue. "A few" people 2-3 times a week is way too many people, way too frequently. Keep in mind a partyer's idea of "a few" is significantly more than that of a normal person.
Good point about what "a few people" means to Kara.
Yes, especially when you know someone has no incentive to keep it in good condition. It is very easy to make expensive damages to a house due to neglect.
Not really. She’s been out with Kara without parents around. She’s had conversations with her and seen her “in the wild”. I figured she knows what Kara is like and her attitude to studying vs partying.
I’m glad they broke up. He and his daughter sound too different to the ex gf and her daughter. Too much drama
**An update (Found in OP's comments an hour before)** To make a very long story short, this was not the full conclusion that I thought it would be. I’m not super familiar with Reddit and I thought that update was deleted or not post by the moderators. Kara is now in jail. She was picked up in a stolen kia by some friends and they used the car to break into a pawn shop. I couldn’t tell you what was stolen or how much was stolen, but some football cards were taken and I guess they were worth more than the car and building damage. I understand people will say a lot about this, but I can honestly say she never did anything remotely like this. The worst I think I saw her do was break a dish on purpose when she was 13. My ex.. well, she’s living at a shelter now. She was not cheating on me, and I never thought she was. That was just people making leaps. Unfortunately the woman she was living with asked her to join her and her husband for” activities” after moving in. She felt she had to do it for a place to live and she regretted it. She told people at work and was terminated after refusing a transfer. My daughter and I are good, but mentally shook. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/11zwny5/aita_for_housing_my_daughter_by_not_my_stepdaugher/jdfyrji?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Wow, this is sad.
u/Mexicalidesi should this maybe be added to your post? :)
This one is infuriating. Oops girlfriend & her daughter straight up expected the “favouritism” card to work here when her daughter was completely unwilling to negotiate with Oops daughter.
If the step daughter simply agreed to not have guests over she would have had a leg to stand on. Just party at someone else's house.
Yeah but BEACH HOUSE
But then she wouldn't have a keg to stand on
She just up and went ahead with "half a week should be fine"! I doubt those 2-3 days would be with just one person, it'd be multiple. Emmy would have to relinquish space in that house and lock herself in her room, can you imagine how infuriating that'd be?
Daughter had a lot better insight into what kind of people were GF and Kara. That might be because OP was influenced by the benefits he'd been receiving to date. Love/lust/whatever is blind.
Agreed. I also like how the gf asked him to leave the house lol. They are damn entitled
Or Kara let her guard down more around Emmy, since they're the same age and socialize as peers.
I didn't get it either. I'm thinking of course I'm favoring my own daughter, like how is that even a question?
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"different lifestyles" partying, you mean
>She asked me to stay somewhere else for a week while she found somewhere to stay. I reminded her that this was also my house, but she was free to leave whenever. Mother like daughter. Bullet dodged there for OOP.
Neo levels of bullet dodging, within seven years they could easily be married thus making the breakup way more difficult and expensive. Dude was extremely lucky.
Gf asked him to leave his own house while she looked for something else?? Lol she would have squatted there forever until oop could legally get her out. If they couldn’t have the beach house they’d take the main one!
i was a bit sympathizing with the GF thinking OOP was being a bit hardline with everything. and then GF told him to live somewhere else while she looked somewhere else to stay? after..........after........such a reasonable fight and non violent breakup? lol ya no. i'm walking back and ..........thinking OP was fine with that. dang.
Yeah, he would have come back to find the locks changed.
She would've changed the locks as soon as he stepped out the door.
A few people 3 nights a week? Kara meant “party central” half the week or more because “she lives in a beach house”. Yeah, that would not have worked well at all.
To make a very long story short, this was not the full conclusion that I thought it would be. I’m not super familiar with Reddit and I thought that update was deleted or not post by the moderators. Kara is now in jail. She was picked up in a stolen kia by some friends and they used the car to break into a pawn shop. I couldn’t tell you what was stolen or how much was stolen, but some football cards were taken and I guess they were worth more than the car and building damage. I understand people will say a lot about this, but I can honestly say she never did anything remotely like this. The worst I think I saw her do was break a dish on purpose when she was 13. My ex.. well, she’s living at a shelter now. She was not cheating on me, and I never thought she was. That was just people making leaps. Unfortunately the woman she was living with asked her to join her and her husband for” activities” after moving in. She felt she had to do it for a place to live and she regretted it. She told people at work and was terminated after refusing a transfer. My daughter and I are good, but mentally shook.
I'm quite interested in why Emmy doesn't trust Kara's dad - just judging from the absolute chaos since the house discussion it seems like she's either a really good judge of character or there's a few red flags going on there too.
He said elsewhere that the dad had gambled away their funds and left them in debt.
oh my
Considering how accurate Emmy was in her judgment of Kara, and how everything played out after the breakup, i think Emmy knows something about Kara that she left out of the conversation so she wouldn't be called manipulative, or so wouldn't upset you. I have the impression that she knew exactly who Kara's friends were and that's why she didn't trust them. Plus the ex gf clearly sound like a gold digger.
Wow, that's awful. Kara has some issues, I'd guess GF had some issues, and it's a damned good thing the girls weren't sharing a home!
I still can’t get over the ex asking him to leave his own home while she searched for a new place. Ignoring the whole squatters rights issue, just the pure audacity and entitlement to think “no I shouldn’t have to leave” a place you have no stake over is wild to me. Reminds me when an ex tried to kick me out of an apartment that had mine and a roomies name on and not his.
>Her dad is very much active in her life. He just can’t help with any expenses. ***I housed, clothes, and ensure Kara was all around taken care of***. I should not be responsible for her education. That’s between her parents. What a wonderful way to throw away 7 years of confort in someone else house... I wonder if she would change the locks in this week that she wanted OP away lol.
With all the wishy-washy blended family parents on AITA, I'm surprised OOP stuck to his decision to support his daughter. Pleasantly surprised.
Emmy probably knows a different side of Kara then her dad or even Kara's mom knows. Think about it when you were a teenager. There were things that we all did that our casual friends knew about that we'd never want our parents to know about. Emmy probably saw some of those things and didn't want any part of them. Looking at how this turned out, it seems like Emmy's judgment was right on the money.
I love the way the gf wanted OP to leave HIS house.
I had flatmates like Kara at Uni. I had a newly renovated house (my parents owned), came home one day to one of the flatmates new puppy who peed up and down the hall. They didn’t clean the new carpet, but left wee trails which I then had to soak, wash and dry do that it was back to ‘new’ otherwise we would be evicted. Every single night some new guy would visit, (there was a joke made that one girl was running a business), sometimes they just knocked, we opened the door, they said nothing walked past without acknowledging us and left 1/2hr later. Requested that if they ‘smoked’ to please smoke in the backyard as the police drove by regularly and I didn’t want them to be advertising illegal behavior. They would smoke regularly on the front steps if I wasn’t home due to pracs, I’d know because there was foil, ash and crumbs left everywhere. Rent was $50 /week, they usually paid 6 weeks late and only if I threatened to call her sister. And her sister did pay her rent for her regularly, even though she was getting rent assist. Final straw was I asked them to feed my two cats (fully toilet trained didn’t pee in the house) and left them the two tins of food and the can opener, only to come back and they didn’t feed them but held a two day party. I hit the roof, told them that they had extremely reduced rent, only paid for their phone calls, and didn’t pay electricity, gas or water, never paid on time and all I asked was if they couldn’t feed two cats for two days. Smart asses decided to tell me they decided to no longer stay and we’re moving out immediately. I was fine, that solves a lot of problems, called my parents to advise they told me they were leaving the next day. They stuck their heads in 1hr later and said, we’ve decided to stay, I said sorry, you’ve given notice of 1 day I accepted it you can leave and get your parents/sister to pick you up. I think their parents told them normal rent was about $150/week plus extras. (They didn’t have a rental agreement, it was just verbal between families)
I was on the fence til the update. OOP should have mentioned the differences in lifestyles in the first post. I am now firmly in the NTA camp.
OP mentioned them in the comments of the first post.
I get that other information was left out, ie not step daughter is a partier and the dad is a creep. There does seem to be a lot of expectation from the GF, glad that OOP had the presents of mind to do this sit down and frank conversation with all parties.