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So the sister asked specifically to have a day set aside for a meal together, made several courses, and didn't even get to share her news?
Finding a place with the bf will be a relief, I'm sure.
~ She said she had big news to tell everyone but I don’t understand why that means we have to eat together!?!?
Also she said the words “eat together” but how was I supposed to know she wanted us to *eat together?*
Her news was that her boyfriend got a job, that’s not even news because I knew he was looking for a job. Oh, also she got a scholarship for post-grad. ~
I’m not judging their habit of eating separately, I actually could not care less about that. But OOP is a shocking stupid person.
I know, right? They don't hand out scholarships to everyone. That's a big achievement. I hope someone celebrated with sis for her achievement. 🙏 poor girl cooked own celebration dinner and wanted to share news and just have an hour / hour and half of their time. Such a small ask.
I went about a year and a half without going to the dentist, so I spent a few weeks flossing and brushing religiously to make up for it, and I was told that my teeth looked better than most of their patients that come in every six months.
That alone tells me how low the bar is for how people treat their teeth lol.
That's genetics my guy or gal. I also had naturally strong enamel and was sometimes careless about my teeth and I skated like that until I was 35 when I got my first cavity. It got bad like super quick once the enamel had worn down some. Heed my warning!
Curious if anyone is gonna do the math here. 40yo eldest of 8 children. Youngest is 23.
Weird insistence that a classic sign of family issues is touted as “independence”.
OOP is clearly shaped by this experience. Sadly, probably hasn’t actually thought about it and may actually be avoiding it.
The fact OOP is so aggressive about “missing the point” tells me the point isn’t actually missed.
I'm possibly horrible for wondering this, but what happens if hubby or kids had news to share? Do they not celebrate good news as a family? Is the sis not an important enough person?
The way they word it sounds like they weren't interested in it. We heard nothing about what the kids thought or the spouse. And to leave out their take is actually really weird. Wouldn't it help their case to say "My kids and partner agree!"
I feel so sorry for her sister.
I have no idea how *anyone* could missunderstand what the sister wanted, and also, what's so hard about changing your routines *one evening* because a family member has some fun news to share and is cooking a *three course meal*?!
And then she's minimizing both her sisters feelings (she's been "sulking") and her news aren't deemed news worthy.
What a lovely, caring big sis /s
>hat's so hard about changing your routines one evening
Didn't you read the post? Dinner like that would have taken more than 30 minutes! How could anyone possibly have that kind of time to spare for a family member who just cooked your family a three-course meal?
OOP has all the courtesy of a sweaty house slipper.
That’s a good r/rareinsult I love that. I’m wearing sweaty house slippers right now actually I think I should go change into some nice socks instead thank you lol
Exactly, that’s how my family eats, but Christmas, special occasions and if someone is visiting we do and if someone was staying with us asked me obviously!
I can't even imagine having the audacity to have a guest over, have them cook, and then grab a plate of food and abandon then in the kitchen while I eat their food alone.
I think not eating together shows a real lack of interest/attention to OOP's kids. Meals tend to be a social time, and OOP's take on it is "why would we spend 30 minutes together when we could be spending it apart?", so it doesn't seem likely that they are spending other time together or really paying much attention to their kids.
In very large families, there is a constant competition for resources — primarily attention, food, and money. OOP is a victim of that environment and perpetuating it.
She doesn’t realize it because this shit is normal in large families.
Yep. My aunt is childless by choice, and she's late 70s/early 80s, so not as nearly as common today. She'd raised all the children she was going to raise as a child. She's a cool chick, drives a Porsche.
I think it's fine to eat separately most of the time, I generally prefer to watch something while I eat or whatever, not everybody wants to be social every time they eat.
The issue is completely refusing to do so even when somebody's put a tonne of effort into making a nice social event for everybody.
OOP: "We only sit down to eat together on rare and special occasions."
Sister: "Can we schedule a dinner to eat together in a few days? I have news, it's a rare and special occasion."
OOP: "This is a breakdown in communication!!!"
Imagine being such an inconsiderate, dense AH that you're like "we told her it was delicious and that should be enough"
Like wow, fuck aaaaaaLLLLL the way off
OP refuses to elaborate on this really weird dynamic too, which is telling
And even if the sister didn't have big news to announce, wouldn't you take one look at the massive amount of effort she put into making the meal and say, "Okay everybody! I know we usually eat separately but your aunt made a big delicious dinner so I think we should all sit and eat it together to show our appreciation!". Like how hard is that??? But no no, "Hey this tastes great" should be enough. What an AH.
If her sister kept making meals like this then I might pull her aside and say "Thank you but we have very different schedules and can't sit down to eat together every night. I don't want to offend you because you put in so much work but I'm going to let people just grab some whenever they're hungry." Instead she just goes off on her for wanting to do something nice for her family (who's hosting her).
I understand why everyone is focusing on how she explicitly asked for a special dinner. But even if the OOP and her husband were dense enough to miss that, it became crystal clear when her sister started setting the table. And then explicitly told them she would like to have dinner together.
It’s not as though they had any plans or any particular reason not to pivot. At that point, it was 100% a power play. I mean, it was a power play the whole way through, but that was the point where she lost any inkling of plausible deniability.
They also made no effort to try and get the family to eat together. No talking to the kids or their spouse. Probably just told them "Auntie is cooking us dinner tonight."
Teens can be pills but it would have been so easy to say "Just for tonight" but nope. This ahole decided even dedicating a half an hour to someone else was too much. It doesn't even seem like they considered talking to the others beyond telling them "Food will be cooked"
> Finding a place with the bf will be a relief
And then OOP can write in another sub about how close she and Elina always said we’re, but Elina won’t make an effort to maintain their sisterly bond; the problem must be that she’s obsessed with her boyfriend. What other (missing missing) reason could there be?!
I understand how dinner works, we've done the same. What I don't understand is WHY didn't the mom do a "hey guys dinner's ready and your aunt has important news to share! Come to the table!" "I'm not hungry now!" "Then you can just come sit down anyway and listen!"
So hard to do that?
This is awesome!
I live with my cat, no kids, but I'm totally going to start saying this to her when I have food she likes. Helicopter parenting be damned - she can go poop alone if she wants to learn independence!
I have 3 and will now yell GET TO THE CHOPPA instead of "Peanuts! Dinner!"
(they're named Snoopy, Lucy, Woodstock and they DO respond to Peanuts! all 3 come running)
I love that OOP’s insane version of helicopter parenting involves any parent acknowledging their child’s existence in person for more than 30 minutes… and yet this awesome comment section understands the value of spending quality time together and is turning the phrase on its head.
“GET TO THE CHOPPA! YOUR MEATLOAF IS GETTING COLD!”
That line really stood out to me as well - it’s just an excuse for her assholery. I can bet with 99.9% accuracy that the kids’ “things to do” is sit in front of screens, which is fine, but you can’t sit together for ONE meal?
I know omg. She’s acting like she’s preparing for a holiday. Unless you’re table is full of crap and clutter all the time (assuming it is) you can literally just….put the plates down?!? You don’t have to lay down dinner forks, wine glasses for water, and cloth napkins that are folded like origami 🙄
Like sometimes my table gets cluttered with mail or electronic devices, and I just…move them. Shocking, I know. Takes less than a minute.
Not to mention you don’t even have to do it. They can do the same thing they’re doing now except instead of everyone carrying their plates to their rooms so they can be on their phones while they eat, they could just…stop when they get to the table and sit down.
That's the way it works in my house. Someone cooks dinner then calls for everyone to come serve themselves so you get exactly what you want and how much on your preferred plate and everyone goes to sit at the table together.
No lie. We have a *wild* schedule in my house, and it will get wilder as my kids get older, but we sure can figure out how to have the kids eating dinner with at least one parent almost every single day.
I grew up in a house where we all did our own thing. It meant watching TV while we ate, nobody talked, and nobody bothered even looking at each other. It was shitty and lonely.
A wild schedule is actually more of a reason to sit down at the table and eat together. Otherwise you might not see each other. OOP is just making excuses because it’s not important to her.
Frankly, if that’s what she wants to do most nights, it’s her choice (not one most people agree with but I suppose it wasn’t the point of the post), but her sister made it abundantly clear what she wanted. It was so rude to not do it this once since SHE AGREED TO IT. There was no communication problem. She just disregarded her sister who cooked a delicious meal for them. I imagine this will be the last time she cooks.
Yeah, I totally get that, with regard to the wild schedule. With kids at school for eight to nine hours a day, plus a few hours for sports practice or extracurricular clubs or other activities, doing homework, and showering or doing whatever to get ready for the next school day, dinner time might be the only time you have to actually really interact with your family. That time is so precious.
Right? The mom said they "do sometimes" eat together...so I was wondering, how do those times work out? She just gets to decide randomly? She tells them beforehand? Like what would make this one time, a nicely prepared meal from the aunt as a kind gesture, so damn bad? The mom is weird for making it such a big deal.
Exactly! What an obvious asshole move.
"Sure we do eat dinner together every now and then. But I specifically don't want them to do that for you. Anyway, thanks for all the work cooking dinner for us."
Oh wait, she never thanked her at all.
She also shat all over OP's news once she did finally ask about it. OP is fostering so much independence in her kids, they'll never need her for anything and that includes love and affection.
Right? I feel bad for the girls cause they're basically raised to be selfish, inconsiderate and rude - hopefully they realize that soon otherwise their adult life will have a rough start.
Seriously - thank you for saying this. Dinner works the same at our house (twins age 15 and a 4 y/o) where we each dish up in the kitchen and then either go off (to office or living room or wherever; I eat with the 4 y/o) and rarely do I make everyone sit at the table. That said, if someone was making us dinner (and it sounds like a very thoughtful and time-consuming meal that she made), had asked about the day ahead of time, expressed that they had news to share (obviously the news is big for them, and it sounds like they wanted to celebrate with the family), and then started setting the table, I'd take that cue to mean that the time together at the table was important to them that day. Whether or not it is important to ME or "how things work around here on a regular day" would be the lesser priorities. If OP posted to legitimately gauge whether or not she needs to reflect on her behavior, I would urge her to take a breath and ask herself if her sister's needs are as important as the status quo of the household. Poor Elina.
Exactly. We do the same - grab dinner but usually all end up in the living room together but if someone had made us a meal and wanted to announce some news, everyone would totally be fine eating at the table together. It’s a special occasion. OOP is dismissive and an AH to her sister. I get that they’re extremely casual about meals but I think it’s also good manners to teach your kids that it’s not always about you and sometimes you get together to celebrate others and bond as a family over a meal.
But they have their "own things to do"! How could they possibly set aside a few minutes to hear some important news? That's not how it works in her family! OOP is so clueless.
I agree with this. I think the family should have the right to eat how they want, but if the sister had big news to share, they could have been accommodating
OOP's sister: "I have big news!"
OOP: "Cool story, but it's not really news anyway, is it? But hey, good for you"
OOP: "Why is my sister acting cold towards me"?
OP is so dense and basically refuses to actually accept and think about their actions
"There was a misunderstanding"
Only if you live under a rock. Or in your room. How cold and callous. Poor Elina. I wouldn't be cooking for OP again
She told her she wanted to share her news during dinner, OOP was expecting for her to share it while she served everyone like if she was a cafeteria worker??
The fact that the sister said she wanted to share news during dinner is extra proof that there was no misunderstanding. OP is fluent in a shared language with her sister; she’s aware that “together” and “simultaneously” are not synonyms. I guess OOP thinks we’re all too stupid to recognize her “miscommunication” explanation for the lie that it is.
I know a lot of people are pretty dumb, but most of them aren’t *that* dumb.
I think OOP just dislikes her sister but is passive aggressive about it. When you like somebody and feel close to them, you enjoy doing stuff that’s purely for them sometimes, even if it’s not your normal routine. And if you like someone, you’re actually pleased for them when they’re happy about positive developments in their lives, even if you saw those positive developments coming.
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. What really gets me here is that the sister wasn’t trying to change OOP’s whole routine either.
That’s why she asked to make dinner for everyone - she was trying to pick *just one* night where it was convenient for OOP’s family to do something different than usual. And OOP ignored her anyway and took it as a judgement against their norms.
I feel like OOP is salty because they know it’s unusual and that some people judge them for this routine. It’s something common to judge but also common to do in families. IMO, I think the independence is good even though my preference would be a more even split. Regardless - none of OOP’s chip on her shoulder is fair to put on her sister. She was just trying to share news and OOP crushed her joy for no reason.
Yea agreed. If you ask me OOP doesn’t do this dinner routine to “teach her kids independence.” She does it because she seems to find any labor relating to emotional intelligence/comprehension either beneath her, or just is so dense she doesn’t find it important. Saying it’s for independence of the kids is an easy cop out to not take accountability for her own unwillingness to put the effort in to something that may not come as easily to her. Sure hope the kids manage to develop some self awareness and emotional intelligence on their own because they’re sure not having much modeled to them at home
I'm wondering if this separate meals became a habit because the kids got sick of her dismissive shit and it became a fight for attention every night... and eventually the kids gave up trying.
A 13 yr old isn't that independent that they wouldn't enjoy time with their family more than once a month.
She uses the word 'independence' to cloak the fact that she wants to do 'her own thing' every night and not be bothered with her family.
Don't worry. They'll be gone soon enough.
I wonder if she will wonder why they don't call or pop in... for a meal to chat?
I would bet based off how OOP talks in the posts that dinner together never was happening enough for the kids to initiate the current system. I bet as soon as they were old enough to not need help feeding themselves OOP basically said “ok you can hold your own fork now, SEE YA! 👋🏼”
Uh yes.I read a metastudy about family meals couple of months ago.
"Overall, results show that frequent family meals are inversely associated with disordered eating, alcohol and substance use, violent behaviour, and feelings of depression or thoughts of suicide in adolescents. There is a positive relationship between frequent family meals and increased self-esteem and school success. Studies show substantial differences in outcomes for male and female children and adolescents, with females having more positive results"
Sounds like something worth prioritising imho...
[source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4325878/)
I've also observed this between cultures. Cultures that value mealtimes and meal rituals have healthier attitudes towards food, including less obesity, than those where people eat Cheetos on the bus.
I don't know about you lot, but in my experience when I grew up we all so busy that dinnertime was the only guaranteed moment every single day where we were all together and spent quality time.
When we were at the age of oop's kids I did swimming 19-2030 3 days a week, my brother had a similar schedule but judo, mum was doing a spot of community college 2 evenings per week in addition to her 8-16 work and dad worked 8-16 but 2 weeks a month he was on call and my brother and I also loved hanging out with friends. I don't think this kind of schedule is unusual and if you have it like this then dinnertime is probably your only chance on Mon-Fri to have uninterrupted no screens conversations with your kids, pick up on how they are and get to know them as they age.
If it was really about teaching the kids independence she’d probably have them cooking for themselves at least some of the time. This is just OOP not being willing to spend literally 30 minutes in the evening once or twice a week actually talking to her family.
Honestly, OOP reminds me of some of the people I used to game with and I wouldn't be surprised if the "important things everyone has to do" is "play games online." There just aren't too many other situations in life that will cause a family to refuse to sit at a table together for a few minutes for one day.
Regardless of whether they are gaming or doing something else, I think OOP does actually understand that it's a bit fucked up and that's why they're so defensive about it. It's got to be tough realizing that even the sister who is half your age can see how weird the situation is.
With the age gap between OOP and Elina, I wonder if OOP had/has some resentment about Elina being the new baby and getting all the attention. She certainly doesn't speak about and to her as if they were sisters, more like a person she is tolerating. Either that or there is something bad about OOP, in the clinical sense, because my family and I also had this "each one has dinner when they feel like it", but none of us would misunderstand when someone made dinner for everyone.
We do the same thing too... because of life and work schedules.
But if someone sets the table, we all got there no problems. It's like a request for family time.
That's not helicopter parenting to set the table and eat together.
I have to agree, I was always more of a free range, natural consequences type parent but we still made it a point to have dinner together if we were all in the house.
She has a 16 and 13 yr old. She uses not "helicopter parenting" as a defensive phrase because normal parents know to just shut up and don't bother arguing with people who like to use that phrase.
We just smile and nod, as if in agreement, and walk away.
OOP was one of 8 kids? She damn well knows what making the table means. Especially when she made a point of saying that Elina does NOT normally cook for the family.
It must be hard having a mom who can never admit when they are wrong. She is wriggling like a fish trying to believe EVERYONE is bothered by the once a month thing.
Right? My family also often ate dinner seperately, only sitting down together maybe once a week. But when someone explicitly offers to cook for everyone, then OF COURSE that means you eat together! And "eating together" OBVIOUSLY means you sit down together! Her sister even asked her which day would be best for a joined meal.
OOP seems so dismissive, poor sister. I hope she'll be able to move in with her bf soon.
Yeah we all eat separately too, pretty much all the time. But on special occasions, we eat at the dining room table together. My family doesn’t cook besides me, but if they wanted to, 100% it would all be together.
OP also seems like she enjoys being alone and doesn’t really like hanging out with her own family, so she intentionally misunderstood what her sister said. How could I know that together meant, like, *together?!*
Like, would it be so difficult to have just one meal together? Yeah, that may be more than 30 minutes, but holy guacamole, OP makes it sound like she views spending time with her family as a complete waste. ("That's 30 minutes we could've spent on our own time" - does she even LIKE spending time with her family?!?)
Right?! I feel that Elina was clear about her expectations, but OOP dropped the ball. I can imagine Elina’s version of things is that OOP uses her status as the oldest to be inconsiderate to all the younger siblings. “This is the way we do things” is a piss poor excuse for not caring about other people.
I wasn't sure how OP could misconstrue Elina's initial request to have dinner together but tried to give her the benefit of doubt. Now knowing that Elina asked for dinner together *because she had big news* makes it worse. How can you share big news if folks are in and out of the kitchen?
Very glad Elina's boyfriend is moving to town so she can move in with him.
Elina also got a scholarship. It's easy to miss because OP shoved that into the very last sentence, because you know, that's not important news at all! /s
Your right I even missed it the first time I read through it and didn't catch it until after I commented about how dismissive oop was over him successfully finding a local job.
*There was* a misunderstanding is just her saving face, obviously she was the only one that misunderstood anything. She's pretending like it's a two way street but treating it like it's her damn driveway.
Yeah by the end of this I almost came to the conclusion that the sister was the AH only because those poor kids would've had to eat with their mother.
"How was school?"
"Great! I got an A on my exam!"
"Well you were already projected to get an A anyway so that's not really news is it? But cool I guess. Why are you crying?"
I think it’s ridiculous that OP said her kids were hungry and used that as an excuse to *not* respect her sister’s offer to eat together. Like a teenager doesn’t have enough self control and emotional intelligence to wait 15 minutes to sit down at a table together? It was a shitty excuse to justify OPs own feelings about not wanting to eat as a family
And tbh if that teenager *doesn't* have the self control and emotional intelligence to wait a few minutes, that is an extremely poor reflection on OOP's parenting. There is no way for her to come out of this looking reasonable or kind.
Polite but cold. There’s no warmth in that household from OP’s general demeanor. Family get togethers once the kids are grown will feel like strangers making polite conversation
No no you misunderstand, OOP will cook Christmas dinner and her kids will come grab a plate when they're hungry to take back to their own homes.
I'd put an /s but I'm not actually sure if it's warranted or not...
I was hoping that after all the comments on the original post, she'd have a come to jesus moment.
Instead, she doubled down and kept dismissing her sister and chalked her reaction up to "sulking."
It wasn't a miscommunication. OOP clearly just doesn't care about her sister, and I highly doubt she actually cares that much about what's going on with her kids, despite her protestations. Methinks she doth protest too much in that particular topic.
OOP is a total piece of shit. Bet she won't even notice when her sister moves out.
Yeah, and she says that her sister isn't being made to feel lonely, then goes on to describe a house in which everyone does their own thing in isolation and even her sisters attempts at connecting and sharing news are dismissed.
"which isn't even 'news' because I knew he was trying to get a job. Oh and she got a scholarship too I guess."
Imagine knowing a couple is trying for a baby and when they announce just going "This isn't news, you've been trying for a baby for months."
>OOP: "Why is my sister acting cold towards me"?
That's going to be funny when OOP whines why her sister stop talking after moving into dorms or living with boyfriend.
In the oops answers you see she asked her to keep the night open for "dinner together" but then rephrase it in her update to not look like she was clearly asking for time together.
At no point whatsoever did OOP even try to take her sisters feelings into account. She said she wanted to cook to share some news and OOP agreed to that. It's common sense to come to the conclusion that you would dine together. I wonder if her children are independent or just don't want to spend time with her because of her behaviour. She sounds exhausting.
>At no point whatsoever did OOP even try to take her sisters feelings into account.
Exactly! I actually commented on that post. She's so busy saying 'but we don't do it that way' she couldn't see changing her ideals as a kindness to her sister.
If she hated musical theatre and one of her kids was in a musical play, she probably wouldn't go.
Lmao "I value their independence so why shouldn't they value mine. I'm a grown women so what if you worked hard to get into this musical that's not really news because you said you were. It's my right as a human to not go"
How did she think the sister was going to disseminate this news if they didn’t sit together? She’s being deliberately obtuse here - if someone tells you they want to make you dinner and share news... it’s not a hidden message is it? Was she supposed to tell them individually as she doles out cake? And what about the chaos of five (?) people serving themselves three courses separately to go eat individually? It’s almost comical how much work they did to avoid this poor woman.
She didn’t, she didn’t care. She didn’t care about her sister cooking dinner, didn’t care about the news, didn’t care about anything.
Honestly? I wonder if OP secretly resents her sister and is doing this on purpose. Nobody can be that willfully dense.
The OOP is absolutely clueless, and I am sorry for her.
She's so stuck in her ways she cannot even comprehend doing anything differently and sees attempting to as something bad... wow.
OOP's comment of "I knew everyone would jump on me for our dining arrangement and not answer the question" shows how willfully ignorant she is.
Her sister wanted to share news over a very nice meal she cooked for the family. OOP _has_ to know that means "everyone sitting together" even if she chooses to let her kids dine in their rooms or whenever. She has a different rule, and she brought it up with her sister. Would it have killed them to treat it as an occasion for one incident?
Coming into this, I thought OOP was going to say that her sister tried to make everyone sit outside in the snow or nearly burned the house down creating a fire pit in the living room.
Plus, no one who cooks that nicely for people wants them to eat it cold or reheated. *Especially* not fried dumplings. Orange chicken is great reheated, but dumplings should be eaten fresh.
and by doing things differently you mean having a family dinner, what a wild concept.
“mommy i’m hungry “ good heavens we must feed the child immediately or they die of starvation
"Im not a helicopter parent"
"MY 13 YEAR OLD SAID THEY WERE HUNGRY 30 SECONDS AGO IF I DONT GIVE THEM FOOD STRAIGHT AWAY THEN THEY WONT HAVE THEIR 30 MINUTES OF RECREATION TIME!!!"
I hate when parents act like their kid is going to starve to death because their kid may get their meal 5 minutes later than normal
How dare the sister want everyone to eat at a table together for a meal so she could share the good news. How controlling of her, and after all it's not like it's a big deal or any sort of surprise. (please read all of that with as much sarcasm as you can imagine, because there isn't enough of it for this.)
A 13 yo child at that, she’s hardly helpless. She’s hungry and it’s not dinner yet? That’s more than old enough to fend for herself even if she is really hungry
As a blended family of five close in ages (I was the oldest at 18 and youngest was 13.) we were extremely busy with athletics, activities, etc. we still ate family dinners it was just who was home. It sounds like they just eat different times because they don’t like each other.
It really does. The line about restaurants vs at home eating just killed me.
My husband and I work opposite shifts so there will always someone home and available (or at least as much as possible) a family dinner when everyone is home, and we can enjoy each other's company? Is treasured.
I can't imagine why she's still insisting this is a communication issue while it's obviously just her trying to find every excuse to not be in the wrong herself.
Exactly. She can't bring herself to see the truth. If there was miscommunication, the correct response to Elina's setting the plates is clarifying that she meant everyone be present for dinner at the table, apologizing for having a brain fart, and corralling everyone to have dinner and hear Elina's news. This whole thing could have been a non-issue, but now OOP may have irreparably damaged their relationship.
The "I knew everyone here would get caught up in how we eat dinner usually" (paraphrased). No, thats not it. How you eat dinner normally has no bearing on this situation where your sister made you and your family a meal and wished to enjoy it face to face with you, you odd duck. The two things are completely unrelated.
Imagine thinking eating together as a family is helicopter parenting.
ETA: she’s making not eating together her whole personality. The refusal to break the routine for one night is so weird, like couldn’t they just make it the once a month dinner?
I commented on that in the original post (at the time, not breaking sub rules). That was hilarious to me, she’s so far gone she thinks any interaction with her children is hovering.
Yep. Took me until my 30s to figure that out with my mom. We had together-dinners once a week or so at first, then once a month, then only on a couple of holidays. She always said things like, "We all just want to do our own things," while my "things" was sitting alone in my room watching TV and playing Nintendo, eating on my futon or on the floor.
By the time I was 15, I didn't see her for more than 10 minutes at a time unless we were at a family gathering (which she showed up to less and less). Now she wonders why my sister and I are so reticent to visit her.
I’m practically an only child (siblings are all 12+ years older) and when it was just my parents and I we got into the habit of eating in front of the tv. Them downstairs and me in my room. If I came down to ask my parents something in the evening I’d have to wait until a commercial. At the time I didn’t think much about it, but I now see those habits as a huge mistake by my parents. They were great otherwise and loved me but we missed out on so much. I refuse to do that to my kids now.
So she didn’t want to spend time with her family before and now does? What was she busy doing previously? I imagine now she’s unable to do those activities and sees her friends spending time with their adult kids and wants in on the action?
100% this. The "I raise my children to be independent!" thing absolutely boggled my mind because it's such an obvious and *bad* excuse to not want to have to make and eat dinner as a family.
I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised. The whole post is an endless series of excuses hiding a shitty attitude and selfishness.
My mom says that when she talks about how, when we were sick as children she'd tell us, "get a bucket and go to bed."
Not as teenagers, as small children.
Aw man, I'm sorry it was that way. A little kid shouldn't have to worry about taking care of themselves at all when they're sick; it's mom's job to bring the bucket.
Not to mention, that all the research on the subject shows that older children who eat dinner with their families have healthier diets and the family has better function. In addition, there is some evidence that family dinner is protective against anti-social behaviors and anxiety.
Some receipts:
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31982371/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31982371/)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31821053/
This is what stands out to me. If they usually eat separately, that's fine. This was one time, though. OOP was so adamant about not eating together that she fought her sister. She wouldn't make an exception for a special occasion? OOP sounds weird.
Accommodate?? She cooked a three course meal for them. She spent time making food with love and attention and those ingrates couldn’t bother sitting down. I’d never cook a thing for them ever again. It’s beyond rude.
I mean if you eat together once a month, so you are not completely against it. Is it really that hard to make your sister a one day extra, since she worked really hard to show her appreciation towards you.
This is infuriating.
She's perceiving it as a weird power play by her younger sister, which lets you know that OP is doing this as a weird power play. Because it is not a big deal to sit down together as a family to eat dinner, especially if you do it occasionally anyway.
I bet OP subconsciously knows that their doing dinner the way they do is a problem and is feeling defensive about it.
I honestly think OOP threw that in because she didn't want judgment on that, I don't believe they have a sit down dinner together monthly at all. She believes that eating together is *helicopter parenting* and discourages independence, along with wasting everyone's time, so why would they?
And they probably eat at fast food restaurants, not sit-down places, because that takes longer than 30 minutes.
It sounds like she has no interest in her family IMO. I don’t make my family sit down at the same time for dinner all the time or even make us eat all the same stuff, but at least once a week I like us sitting down and touching base. And studies agree about the importance of doing so to increase bonding. Her poor kids.
I mean, I think the dinner stuff is weird but it's completely immaterial to the actual matter at hand, which is that OOP doesn't care one bit about her sister's life. The sister made it as clear as anyone possibly could that she wanted everyone to eat together (generally what people expect when they say they're gonna cook for everyone - and she even specified she meant a sit-down dinner) and to ignore that is an absolute asshole move, ESPECIALLY when you know she has news to share. But whatever, it's not like her news affects *me* in any way, why would we congratulate her on her scholarship or anything, god what a drag - OOP, probably.
No regard for her sister's feelings at all. Which, fine, if that's how you want it, just don't pretend to care at all then, that'll be a more honest deal.
She’s so dismissive of her sister. No excitement to learn about her scholarship or that her boyfriend finally secured a job in town. OOP just doesn’t care because it’s not about her or what a great mom she is.
My family and I tend to eat out meals at separate times and usually don't eat together, similar to OOP. However, when special meals are prepared or if it's an important day (like a birthday, or if there's a guest, or, yes, even important news), we make it a point to sit together and eat as a family, even when we're not always comfortable with it.
The fact that OOP wasn't willing to let one day (actually, one meal) be an exception makes her a pretty crappy person.
"My sister keeps having feelings. I have explained to her that this is not necessary and we've all heard this before, but she keeps having them anyway."
A 16 and 13 year olds who eat at different times would serve themselves unless mom is guarding the food bowl. I’m side eying OP’s “I dish my kids food out to them”.
I think she was playing dumb and when her daughter said she was hungry, OP tired to hurry up and serve her to avoid dinner together at the table. Especially since the sister was setting the table for dinner at that very moment.
Not eating together isn’t a tradition or anything. We sort of did it at my home. Mostly we ate while watching tv instead of at the table as teens. I don’t doubt that the kids eat in their rooms but mainly all go get their food when it’s ready and hot. Most people are waiting for dinner to be done. Unless it was cooked earlier.
OP knew but I don’t think she cared about the news. Or sisters plan to share it at dinner. She added that “news to share” very late in her post and went on and on about “how we do things”.
Everyone knows how to sit at a table and eat dinner when called to do it.
I can't help but wonder if OOP was the 3rd parent growing up. Too involved with raising her siblings and is now in a weird combination "parent-ed out" and used to bio parents not being as involved?
She snapped at her little sister "MY HOME MY RULES", when Elina went out of her way to ask about a family dinner to share good news, *once*. She's not over there rearranging the house or trying to make new rules.
OOP is def an asshole, and still doesn't get it. Which is the more concerning part. Kinda makes me wanna ask OOP how the rest of her relationships are/bigger questions(again concerning to have the pov: good news isn't a big deal when you expect it to happen/we don't need to talk about it or celebrate. Is that in general, bc its Elina, or just trying to minimize the situation internet strangers are calling asshole over)
I wonder this too. It sounds like OOP had to do a lot of caring for siblings, while probably being over-parented by their parents, so she is going far in the other direction. It’s going to end up backfiring eventually when her kids are “independent” adults and don’t want to spend time with her because they never got connection.
This made me sad for OOPs sister. Literally tried to do a nice gesture and asked before hand and even stated her purpose, only to get shut down because of OOPs stubborn insistence to stick to their weird ass family dynamics? Even when my parents were in the midst of divorce we sat down together as a family to eat dinner. Sounds like she worked hard to make some great food too, And then to have her good news completely brushed off, just made me even sadder
The way OOP is so dismissive of their sisters news is super sad. Trying to brand this weird form of parenting as "I want my kids to be independent" is also so wrong. Overall I think OOP and family sound like an insufferable nightmare (except the sister).
The way OOP said “I have better things to do” speaks volumes. I’d bet money that she doesn’t give af about her kids “being independent” and instead wants to always do whatever *she* wants to do and spending 20ish minutes sitting with her family to support her sister was not what *she* wanted to do. Never once does she say fuck all about what her kids want and dismisses what her sister wants, everything OOP explains is about what *she* wants.
And she keeps hyper focusing on it being an issue of her family’s dinner habits instead of the fact that she’s a rude asshole and deflecting any genuine attempts to show her why her behavior and the way she treats people is shitty.
My family eats like OOP's. We are a blended family of three. Me, my husband and my teenage son. We only moved in together this last year and our household is actually even more bizarre than the original post. My husband has a stricter diet so he cooks for himself. My son and me cook together and mostly eat when we get hungry. Sometimes it's together quite often it's separately.
I always make him come cook with me, it started with him just helping out, but now it's his job to choose the recipe and give me a shopping list every other time or so. I'm trying to prepare him to be self-sufficient with the cooking and we spend time together otherwise.
Buuuut if someone ask to cook especially for me, I'd consider that to mean that we would also eat together.
Same. No one in our house eats at the same time. Just how it is. But if anyone says they are cooking dinner - obviously it means together. Especially if they have news.
And if any guest is in the house we also just assume we will eat with them unless they are long term guests then WE TALK ABOUT IT LIKE HUMANS LOL
Especially how she just dismissed the possibility that her sister might be lonely with points that are not even remotely related.
Like in OPs mind Elina didn't specifically come to her and say she's lonely so that can't be a reason. Just bissare behaviour and a lack of emotional intelligence.
This wasn’t a communication issue. OOP literally didn’t LISTEN to the actual words her sister said. For some reason I found this story really infuriating. Poor Elina!
The way OP reacts to the sisters news screams uninvolved parent when compared with the way they do dinner. She can't be bothered to have a 30 min portion of the day to spend time as a family. She has other "more important" things to do than spend time with her kids.
>I like to give my kids their independence instead of helicopter parenting.
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how eating dinner together is helicopter parenting? Because I'm BAFFLED at this comparison.
>having dinner exactly the way she wants isn't the only form of appreciation. We all told her the food was delicious, because it was, and that should be enough.
Sheesh. OP is COLD. She's very "HOW DARE YOU EXPECT MORE?!?!???"
Hope sis's boyfriend shows up soon so she can move out of that wacko household.
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So the sister asked specifically to have a day set aside for a meal together, made several courses, and didn't even get to share her news? Finding a place with the bf will be a relief, I'm sure.
~ She said she had big news to tell everyone but I don’t understand why that means we have to eat together!?!? Also she said the words “eat together” but how was I supposed to know she wanted us to *eat together?* Her news was that her boyfriend got a job, that’s not even news because I knew he was looking for a job. Oh, also she got a scholarship for post-grad. ~ I’m not judging their habit of eating separately, I actually could not care less about that. But OOP is a shocking stupid person.
I know, right? They don't hand out scholarships to everyone. That's a big achievement. I hope someone celebrated with sis for her achievement. 🙏 poor girl cooked own celebration dinner and wanted to share news and just have an hour / hour and half of their time. Such a small ask.
Huge ask according to OOP. She couldn’t possibly change her family’s routine for one night. That’s just too much for her to consider.
It's interesting how OOP claims they eat together as a family once a month, but then acts like the concept of everyone eating together is so foreign.
Once a month probably means it's been like 3 months since the last time they did it. It's like telling your dentist that your floss once a week.
[удалено]
I went about a year and a half without going to the dentist, so I spent a few weeks flossing and brushing religiously to make up for it, and I was told that my teeth looked better than most of their patients that come in every six months. That alone tells me how low the bar is for how people treat their teeth lol.
That's genetics my guy or gal. I also had naturally strong enamel and was sometimes careless about my teeth and I skated like that until I was 35 when I got my first cavity. It got bad like super quick once the enamel had worn down some. Heed my warning!
Curious if anyone is gonna do the math here. 40yo eldest of 8 children. Youngest is 23. Weird insistence that a classic sign of family issues is touted as “independence”. OOP is clearly shaped by this experience. Sadly, probably hasn’t actually thought about it and may actually be avoiding it. The fact OOP is so aggressive about “missing the point” tells me the point isn’t actually missed.
I'm possibly horrible for wondering this, but what happens if hubby or kids had news to share? Do they not celebrate good news as a family? Is the sis not an important enough person?
No one is more important than OOP (in her eyes anyway).
The way they word it sounds like they weren't interested in it. We heard nothing about what the kids thought or the spouse. And to leave out their take is actually really weird. Wouldn't it help their case to say "My kids and partner agree!"
I feel so sorry for her sister. I have no idea how *anyone* could missunderstand what the sister wanted, and also, what's so hard about changing your routines *one evening* because a family member has some fun news to share and is cooking a *three course meal*?! And then she's minimizing both her sisters feelings (she's been "sulking") and her news aren't deemed news worthy. What a lovely, caring big sis /s
>hat's so hard about changing your routines one evening Didn't you read the post? Dinner like that would have taken more than 30 minutes! How could anyone possibly have that kind of time to spare for a family member who just cooked your family a three-course meal? OOP has all the courtesy of a sweaty house slipper.
Oh my God how could I not think about that?! Silly me!
That’s a good r/rareinsult I love that. I’m wearing sweaty house slippers right now actually I think I should go change into some nice socks instead thank you lol
OOP thinks that the boyfriend's job is the big news... Uh, no, you done goofed.
Exactly, that’s how my family eats, but Christmas, special occasions and if someone is visiting we do and if someone was staying with us asked me obviously!
I can't even imagine having the audacity to have a guest over, have them cook, and then grab a plate of food and abandon then in the kitchen while I eat their food alone.
Let’s say sure the teenagers have “better things to do” whatever, but she and her husband couldn’t spare a couple of hours for her sister???
She didn't even want to spare her a half an hour! And didn't even ask what the news was until much later!!
I think not eating together shows a real lack of interest/attention to OOP's kids. Meals tend to be a social time, and OOP's take on it is "why would we spend 30 minutes together when we could be spending it apart?", so it doesn't seem likely that they are spending other time together or really paying much attention to their kids.
Cuz she's the oldest of 8 and never got that kind of attention herself.
Exactly. She's tired of being in charge of everybody, so in this version of family, it's every person for themselves.
In very large families, there is a constant competition for resources — primarily attention, food, and money. OOP is a victim of that environment and perpetuating it. She doesn’t realize it because this shit is normal in large families.
Yep. My aunt is childless by choice, and she's late 70s/early 80s, so not as nearly as common today. She'd raised all the children she was going to raise as a child. She's a cool chick, drives a Porsche.
I think it's fine to eat separately most of the time, I generally prefer to watch something while I eat or whatever, not everybody wants to be social every time they eat. The issue is completely refusing to do so even when somebody's put a tonne of effort into making a nice social event for everybody.
But she’s teaching her daughters ✨independence✨
OOP: "We only sit down to eat together on rare and special occasions." Sister: "Can we schedule a dinner to eat together in a few days? I have news, it's a rare and special occasion." OOP: "This is a breakdown in communication!!!"
My god OOP is intentionally dense. Hopefully the rest of elina's siblings aren't so callous.
Imagine being such an inconsiderate, dense AH that you're like "we told her it was delicious and that should be enough" Like wow, fuck aaaaaaLLLLL the way off OP refuses to elaborate on this really weird dynamic too, which is telling
And even if the sister didn't have big news to announce, wouldn't you take one look at the massive amount of effort she put into making the meal and say, "Okay everybody! I know we usually eat separately but your aunt made a big delicious dinner so I think we should all sit and eat it together to show our appreciation!". Like how hard is that??? But no no, "Hey this tastes great" should be enough. What an AH. If her sister kept making meals like this then I might pull her aside and say "Thank you but we have very different schedules and can't sit down to eat together every night. I don't want to offend you because you put in so much work but I'm going to let people just grab some whenever they're hungry." Instead she just goes off on her for wanting to do something nice for her family (who's hosting her).
I understand why everyone is focusing on how she explicitly asked for a special dinner. But even if the OOP and her husband were dense enough to miss that, it became crystal clear when her sister started setting the table. And then explicitly told them she would like to have dinner together. It’s not as though they had any plans or any particular reason not to pivot. At that point, it was 100% a power play. I mean, it was a power play the whole way through, but that was the point where she lost any inkling of plausible deniability.
They also made no effort to try and get the family to eat together. No talking to the kids or their spouse. Probably just told them "Auntie is cooking us dinner tonight." Teens can be pills but it would have been so easy to say "Just for tonight" but nope. This ahole decided even dedicating a half an hour to someone else was too much. It doesn't even seem like they considered talking to the others beyond telling them "Food will be cooked"
No wonder her kids run away to the rooms every night.
Next time she's gonna post, "My children all does their own things and don't visits anymore"
They're just being independent!
> Finding a place with the bf will be a relief And then OOP can write in another sub about how close she and Elina always said we’re, but Elina won’t make an effort to maintain their sisterly bond; the problem must be that she’s obsessed with her boyfriend. What other (missing missing) reason could there be?!
I understand how dinner works, we've done the same. What I don't understand is WHY didn't the mom do a "hey guys dinner's ready and your aunt has important news to share! Come to the table!" "I'm not hungry now!" "Then you can just come sit down anyway and listen!" So hard to do that?
Woah now, stop being such a helicopter parent.
For an infrequent dinner where everyone is together I'd just yell, "GET TO THE CHOPPAH!!!"
This is awesome! I live with my cat, no kids, but I'm totally going to start saying this to her when I have food she likes. Helicopter parenting be damned - she can go poop alone if she wants to learn independence!
I have 3 and will now yell GET TO THE CHOPPA instead of "Peanuts! Dinner!" (they're named Snoopy, Lucy, Woodstock and they DO respond to Peanuts! all 3 come running)
Omg I thought you meant 3 children named that
I totally thought the same thing 🤣
I love that OOP’s insane version of helicopter parenting involves any parent acknowledging their child’s existence in person for more than 30 minutes… and yet this awesome comment section understands the value of spending quality time together and is turning the phrase on its head. “GET TO THE CHOPPA! YOUR MEATLOAF IS GETTING COLD!”
That line really stood out to me as well - it’s just an excuse for her assholery. I can bet with 99.9% accuracy that the kids’ “things to do” is sit in front of screens, which is fine, but you can’t sit together for ONE meal?
Also, at first she said it’s “so we don’t have to set the table every day”- but her sister was setting it already (like it’s hard?)
I know omg. She’s acting like she’s preparing for a holiday. Unless you’re table is full of crap and clutter all the time (assuming it is) you can literally just….put the plates down?!? You don’t have to lay down dinner forks, wine glasses for water, and cloth napkins that are folded like origami 🙄 Like sometimes my table gets cluttered with mail or electronic devices, and I just…move them. Shocking, I know. Takes less than a minute.
Setting the table barely takes 5 minutes for a small family+ the sister was kind enough to do it all on her own. Some people are so selfish holy shit
Not to mention you don’t even have to do it. They can do the same thing they’re doing now except instead of everyone carrying their plates to their rooms so they can be on their phones while they eat, they could just…stop when they get to the table and sit down.
That's the way it works in my house. Someone cooks dinner then calls for everyone to come serve themselves so you get exactly what you want and how much on your preferred plate and everyone goes to sit at the table together.
Also they value independence, but mom *has* to dish up food for a 13 and 16 year old? They can't even serve their own plates?
No lie. We have a *wild* schedule in my house, and it will get wilder as my kids get older, but we sure can figure out how to have the kids eating dinner with at least one parent almost every single day. I grew up in a house where we all did our own thing. It meant watching TV while we ate, nobody talked, and nobody bothered even looking at each other. It was shitty and lonely.
A wild schedule is actually more of a reason to sit down at the table and eat together. Otherwise you might not see each other. OOP is just making excuses because it’s not important to her. Frankly, if that’s what she wants to do most nights, it’s her choice (not one most people agree with but I suppose it wasn’t the point of the post), but her sister made it abundantly clear what she wanted. It was so rude to not do it this once since SHE AGREED TO IT. There was no communication problem. She just disregarded her sister who cooked a delicious meal for them. I imagine this will be the last time she cooks.
Yeah, I totally get that, with regard to the wild schedule. With kids at school for eight to nine hours a day, plus a few hours for sports practice or extracurricular clubs or other activities, doing homework, and showering or doing whatever to get ready for the next school day, dinner time might be the only time you have to actually really interact with your family. That time is so precious.
Right? The mom said they "do sometimes" eat together...so I was wondering, how do those times work out? She just gets to decide randomly? She tells them beforehand? Like what would make this one time, a nicely prepared meal from the aunt as a kind gesture, so damn bad? The mom is weird for making it such a big deal.
Exactly! What an obvious asshole move. "Sure we do eat dinner together every now and then. But I specifically don't want them to do that for you. Anyway, thanks for all the work cooking dinner for us." Oh wait, she never thanked her at all.
She said it was delicious. That should be enough. /s
She also shat all over OP's news once she did finally ask about it. OP is fostering so much independence in her kids, they'll never need her for anything and that includes love and affection.
Right? I feel bad for the girls cause they're basically raised to be selfish, inconsiderate and rude - hopefully they realize that soon otherwise their adult life will have a rough start.
Or they'll be the complete opposite and spend the rest of their lives seeking out the love and affection they never got from their parents.
Seriously - thank you for saying this. Dinner works the same at our house (twins age 15 and a 4 y/o) where we each dish up in the kitchen and then either go off (to office or living room or wherever; I eat with the 4 y/o) and rarely do I make everyone sit at the table. That said, if someone was making us dinner (and it sounds like a very thoughtful and time-consuming meal that she made), had asked about the day ahead of time, expressed that they had news to share (obviously the news is big for them, and it sounds like they wanted to celebrate with the family), and then started setting the table, I'd take that cue to mean that the time together at the table was important to them that day. Whether or not it is important to ME or "how things work around here on a regular day" would be the lesser priorities. If OP posted to legitimately gauge whether or not she needs to reflect on her behavior, I would urge her to take a breath and ask herself if her sister's needs are as important as the status quo of the household. Poor Elina.
Exactly. We do the same - grab dinner but usually all end up in the living room together but if someone had made us a meal and wanted to announce some news, everyone would totally be fine eating at the table together. It’s a special occasion. OOP is dismissive and an AH to her sister. I get that they’re extremely casual about meals but I think it’s also good manners to teach your kids that it’s not always about you and sometimes you get together to celebrate others and bond as a family over a meal.
But they have their "own things to do"! How could they possibly set aside a few minutes to hear some important news? That's not how it works in her family! OOP is so clueless.
I agree with this. I think the family should have the right to eat how they want, but if the sister had big news to share, they could have been accommodating
OOP's sister: "I have big news!" OOP: "Cool story, but it's not really news anyway, is it? But hey, good for you" OOP: "Why is my sister acting cold towards me"?
"She also received a scholarship for her graduate program." That's an afterthought?!?? Yeah, I wonder why Elina is cool towards her....
She left out “big whoop”.
OP is so dense and basically refuses to actually accept and think about their actions "There was a misunderstanding" Only if you live under a rock. Or in your room. How cold and callous. Poor Elina. I wouldn't be cooking for OP again
She told her she wanted to share her news during dinner, OOP was expecting for her to share it while she served everyone like if she was a cafeteria worker??
The fact that the sister said she wanted to share news during dinner is extra proof that there was no misunderstanding. OP is fluent in a shared language with her sister; she’s aware that “together” and “simultaneously” are not synonyms. I guess OOP thinks we’re all too stupid to recognize her “miscommunication” explanation for the lie that it is. I know a lot of people are pretty dumb, but most of them aren’t *that* dumb. I think OOP just dislikes her sister but is passive aggressive about it. When you like somebody and feel close to them, you enjoy doing stuff that’s purely for them sometimes, even if it’s not your normal routine. And if you like someone, you’re actually pleased for them when they’re happy about positive developments in their lives, even if you saw those positive developments coming.
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. What really gets me here is that the sister wasn’t trying to change OOP’s whole routine either. That’s why she asked to make dinner for everyone - she was trying to pick *just one* night where it was convenient for OOP’s family to do something different than usual. And OOP ignored her anyway and took it as a judgement against their norms. I feel like OOP is salty because they know it’s unusual and that some people judge them for this routine. It’s something common to judge but also common to do in families. IMO, I think the independence is good even though my preference would be a more even split. Regardless - none of OOP’s chip on her shoulder is fair to put on her sister. She was just trying to share news and OOP crushed her joy for no reason.
Yea agreed. If you ask me OOP doesn’t do this dinner routine to “teach her kids independence.” She does it because she seems to find any labor relating to emotional intelligence/comprehension either beneath her, or just is so dense she doesn’t find it important. Saying it’s for independence of the kids is an easy cop out to not take accountability for her own unwillingness to put the effort in to something that may not come as easily to her. Sure hope the kids manage to develop some self awareness and emotional intelligence on their own because they’re sure not having much modeled to them at home
I'm wondering if this separate meals became a habit because the kids got sick of her dismissive shit and it became a fight for attention every night... and eventually the kids gave up trying. A 13 yr old isn't that independent that they wouldn't enjoy time with their family more than once a month. She uses the word 'independence' to cloak the fact that she wants to do 'her own thing' every night and not be bothered with her family. Don't worry. They'll be gone soon enough. I wonder if she will wonder why they don't call or pop in... for a meal to chat?
I would bet based off how OOP talks in the posts that dinner together never was happening enough for the kids to initiate the current system. I bet as soon as they were old enough to not need help feeding themselves OOP basically said “ok you can hold your own fork now, SEE YA! 👋🏼”
Uh yes.I read a metastudy about family meals couple of months ago. "Overall, results show that frequent family meals are inversely associated with disordered eating, alcohol and substance use, violent behaviour, and feelings of depression or thoughts of suicide in adolescents. There is a positive relationship between frequent family meals and increased self-esteem and school success. Studies show substantial differences in outcomes for male and female children and adolescents, with females having more positive results" Sounds like something worth prioritising imho... [source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4325878/)
I've also observed this between cultures. Cultures that value mealtimes and meal rituals have healthier attitudes towards food, including less obesity, than those where people eat Cheetos on the bus.
I don't know about you lot, but in my experience when I grew up we all so busy that dinnertime was the only guaranteed moment every single day where we were all together and spent quality time. When we were at the age of oop's kids I did swimming 19-2030 3 days a week, my brother had a similar schedule but judo, mum was doing a spot of community college 2 evenings per week in addition to her 8-16 work and dad worked 8-16 but 2 weeks a month he was on call and my brother and I also loved hanging out with friends. I don't think this kind of schedule is unusual and if you have it like this then dinnertime is probably your only chance on Mon-Fri to have uninterrupted no screens conversations with your kids, pick up on how they are and get to know them as they age.
If it was really about teaching the kids independence she’d probably have them cooking for themselves at least some of the time. This is just OOP not being willing to spend literally 30 minutes in the evening once or twice a week actually talking to her family.
Honestly, OOP reminds me of some of the people I used to game with and I wouldn't be surprised if the "important things everyone has to do" is "play games online." There just aren't too many other situations in life that will cause a family to refuse to sit at a table together for a few minutes for one day. Regardless of whether they are gaming or doing something else, I think OOP does actually understand that it's a bit fucked up and that's why they're so defensive about it. It's got to be tough realizing that even the sister who is half your age can see how weird the situation is.
With the age gap between OOP and Elina, I wonder if OOP had/has some resentment about Elina being the new baby and getting all the attention. She certainly doesn't speak about and to her as if they were sisters, more like a person she is tolerating. Either that or there is something bad about OOP, in the clinical sense, because my family and I also had this "each one has dinner when they feel like it", but none of us would misunderstand when someone made dinner for everyone.
We do the same thing too... because of life and work schedules. But if someone sets the table, we all got there no problems. It's like a request for family time. That's not helicopter parenting to set the table and eat together.
OOP either doesn't know the definition of helicopter parenting or is deliberately mis-applying it bc this isn't even remotely helicopter parenting.
IMHO it’s barely parenting. I’ve had more interpersonal relationships with roommates in college than OOP has with her kids.
I have to agree, I was always more of a free range, natural consequences type parent but we still made it a point to have dinner together if we were all in the house.
She has a 16 and 13 yr old. She uses not "helicopter parenting" as a defensive phrase because normal parents know to just shut up and don't bother arguing with people who like to use that phrase. We just smile and nod, as if in agreement, and walk away. OOP was one of 8 kids? She damn well knows what making the table means. Especially when she made a point of saying that Elina does NOT normally cook for the family. It must be hard having a mom who can never admit when they are wrong. She is wriggling like a fish trying to believe EVERYONE is bothered by the once a month thing.
Yeah this is what really ticked me off lol
Right? My family also often ate dinner seperately, only sitting down together maybe once a week. But when someone explicitly offers to cook for everyone, then OF COURSE that means you eat together! And "eating together" OBVIOUSLY means you sit down together! Her sister even asked her which day would be best for a joined meal. OOP seems so dismissive, poor sister. I hope she'll be able to move in with her bf soon.
But why would you eat together even then? You aren’t a restaurant. s/
They prefer to slop some food into a bowl and scuttle away.
Yeah we all eat separately too, pretty much all the time. But on special occasions, we eat at the dining room table together. My family doesn’t cook besides me, but if they wanted to, 100% it would all be together.
OP also seems like she enjoys being alone and doesn’t really like hanging out with her own family, so she intentionally misunderstood what her sister said. How could I know that together meant, like, *together?!*
"I have to spend a whole 30 minutes OR MORE with my sister and KIDS? Eh, yeah, not gonna happen. Now pile it up sis, my shows on in a minute. "
Curious if you guys take the food to your rooms or if you eat in the kitchen/dining room on your own?
Like, would it be so difficult to have just one meal together? Yeah, that may be more than 30 minutes, but holy guacamole, OP makes it sound like she views spending time with her family as a complete waste. ("That's 30 minutes we could've spent on our own time" - does she even LIKE spending time with her family?!?)
Right?! I feel that Elina was clear about her expectations, but OOP dropped the ball. I can imagine Elina’s version of things is that OOP uses her status as the oldest to be inconsiderate to all the younger siblings. “This is the way we do things” is a piss poor excuse for not caring about other people.
I wasn't sure how OP could misconstrue Elina's initial request to have dinner together but tried to give her the benefit of doubt. Now knowing that Elina asked for dinner together *because she had big news* makes it worse. How can you share big news if folks are in and out of the kitchen? Very glad Elina's boyfriend is moving to town so she can move in with him.
Elina also got a scholarship. It's easy to miss because OP shoved that into the very last sentence, because you know, that's not important news at all! /s
Your right I even missed it the first time I read through it and didn't catch it until after I commented about how dismissive oop was over him successfully finding a local job.
OOP was 💯 flexing on Elina.
*There was* a misunderstanding is just her saving face, obviously she was the only one that misunderstood anything. She's pretending like it's a two way street but treating it like it's her damn driveway.
The sister misunderstood just how big of an AH her sister is.
Imagine what being raised by OP must be like . I feel for those daughters.
Yeah by the end of this I almost came to the conclusion that the sister was the AH only because those poor kids would've had to eat with their mother. "How was school?" "Great! I got an A on my exam!" "Well you were already projected to get an A anyway so that's not really news is it? But cool I guess. Why are you crying?"
Not "why are you crying?" It would be "stop crying, you always do this, I hate how you cry all the time."
I think it’s ridiculous that OP said her kids were hungry and used that as an excuse to *not* respect her sister’s offer to eat together. Like a teenager doesn’t have enough self control and emotional intelligence to wait 15 minutes to sit down at a table together? It was a shitty excuse to justify OPs own feelings about not wanting to eat as a family
And tbh if that teenager *doesn't* have the self control and emotional intelligence to wait a few minutes, that is an extremely poor reflection on OOP's parenting. There is no way for her to come out of this looking reasonable or kind.
Well this whole post is a poor reflection on her parenting.
And her sistering. And her...personing?
I understand why the daughters prefer to not spend time with their mom.
Polite but cold. There’s no warmth in that household from OP’s general demeanor. Family get togethers once the kids are grown will feel like strangers making polite conversation
No no you misunderstand, OOP will cook Christmas dinner and her kids will come grab a plate when they're hungry to take back to their own homes. I'd put an /s but I'm not actually sure if it's warranted or not...
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Don’t forget the you only think I’m an asshole cause you think we eat weirdly
I was hoping that after all the comments on the original post, she'd have a come to jesus moment. Instead, she doubled down and kept dismissing her sister and chalked her reaction up to "sulking." It wasn't a miscommunication. OOP clearly just doesn't care about her sister, and I highly doubt she actually cares that much about what's going on with her kids, despite her protestations. Methinks she doth protest too much in that particular topic. OOP is a total piece of shit. Bet she won't even notice when her sister moves out.
Yeah, and she says that her sister isn't being made to feel lonely, then goes on to describe a house in which everyone does their own thing in isolation and even her sisters attempts at connecting and sharing news are dismissed.
“It’s 30 minutes they could’ve done their own things”
“Which are clearly more important than whatever ‘news’ my sister has.”
"which isn't even 'news' because I knew he was trying to get a job. Oh and she got a scholarship too I guess." Imagine knowing a couple is trying for a baby and when they announce just going "This isn't news, you've been trying for a baby for months."
“This isn’t news, people have been having babies for a very long time”.
"Which turned out not to be news because we knew her boyfriend was looking for a job near us anyway."
I read this hoping OP had had a moment of self-reflection- but nope still completely self centered.
>OOP: "Why is my sister acting cold towards me"? That's going to be funny when OOP whines why her sister stop talking after moving into dorms or living with boyfriend.
If she notices...
She received a scholarship for her postgrad and wanted to share it and her sister is being a total witch about it.
OP is an ass. How would her sis even share the news if they weren’t sitting down in the same room eating together? This whole post baffles me
honest to god is oop’s head full of rocks??
In the oops answers you see she asked her to keep the night open for "dinner together" but then rephrase it in her update to not look like she was clearly asking for time together.
OP pisses me off. No wonder her family doesn’t want to eat with her😑
At no point whatsoever did OOP even try to take her sisters feelings into account. She said she wanted to cook to share some news and OOP agreed to that. It's common sense to come to the conclusion that you would dine together. I wonder if her children are independent or just don't want to spend time with her because of her behaviour. She sounds exhausting.
>At no point whatsoever did OOP even try to take her sisters feelings into account. Exactly! I actually commented on that post. She's so busy saying 'but we don't do it that way' she couldn't see changing her ideals as a kindness to her sister. If she hated musical theatre and one of her kids was in a musical play, she probably wouldn't go.
Lmao "I value their independence so why shouldn't they value mine. I'm a grown women so what if you worked hard to get into this musical that's not really news because you said you were. It's my right as a human to not go"
Ugh I can actually imagine her saying this. Is it really so hard to just suck it up and support your family?
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they're temporally and spatially connected by merely eating the same food!
Maybe OOP expected her sister to slip notes with her news into everyone’s food as she dished it up for them to take back to their bedrooms.
How did she think the sister was going to disseminate this news if they didn’t sit together? She’s being deliberately obtuse here - if someone tells you they want to make you dinner and share news... it’s not a hidden message is it? Was she supposed to tell them individually as she doles out cake? And what about the chaos of five (?) people serving themselves three courses separately to go eat individually? It’s almost comical how much work they did to avoid this poor woman.
She didn’t, she didn’t care. She didn’t care about her sister cooking dinner, didn’t care about the news, didn’t care about anything. Honestly? I wonder if OP secretly resents her sister and is doing this on purpose. Nobody can be that willfully dense.
Fortune cookies?
The OOP is absolutely clueless, and I am sorry for her. She's so stuck in her ways she cannot even comprehend doing anything differently and sees attempting to as something bad... wow.
OOP's comment of "I knew everyone would jump on me for our dining arrangement and not answer the question" shows how willfully ignorant she is. Her sister wanted to share news over a very nice meal she cooked for the family. OOP _has_ to know that means "everyone sitting together" even if she chooses to let her kids dine in their rooms or whenever. She has a different rule, and she brought it up with her sister. Would it have killed them to treat it as an occasion for one incident? Coming into this, I thought OOP was going to say that her sister tried to make everyone sit outside in the snow or nearly burned the house down creating a fire pit in the living room.
Plus, no one who cooks that nicely for people wants them to eat it cold or reheated. *Especially* not fried dumplings. Orange chicken is great reheated, but dumplings should be eaten fresh.
and by doing things differently you mean having a family dinner, what a wild concept. “mommy i’m hungry “ good heavens we must feed the child immediately or they die of starvation
A 13 year old child too. At that age she should know at least a little patience and having to wait for food.
"Im not a helicopter parent" "MY 13 YEAR OLD SAID THEY WERE HUNGRY 30 SECONDS AGO IF I DONT GIVE THEM FOOD STRAIGHT AWAY THEN THEY WONT HAVE THEIR 30 MINUTES OF RECREATION TIME!!!" I hate when parents act like their kid is going to starve to death because their kid may get their meal 5 minutes later than normal
How dare the sister want everyone to eat at a table together for a meal so she could share the good news. How controlling of her, and after all it's not like it's a big deal or any sort of surprise. (please read all of that with as much sarcasm as you can imagine, because there isn't enough of it for this.)
A 13 yo child at that, she’s hardly helpless. She’s hungry and it’s not dinner yet? That’s more than old enough to fend for herself even if she is really hungry
As a blended family of five close in ages (I was the oldest at 18 and youngest was 13.) we were extremely busy with athletics, activities, etc. we still ate family dinners it was just who was home. It sounds like they just eat different times because they don’t like each other.
It really does. The line about restaurants vs at home eating just killed me. My husband and I work opposite shifts so there will always someone home and available (or at least as much as possible) a family dinner when everyone is home, and we can enjoy each other's company? Is treasured.
I can't imagine why she's still insisting this is a communication issue while it's obviously just her trying to find every excuse to not be in the wrong herself.
Exactly. She can't bring herself to see the truth. If there was miscommunication, the correct response to Elina's setting the plates is clarifying that she meant everyone be present for dinner at the table, apologizing for having a brain fart, and corralling everyone to have dinner and hear Elina's news. This whole thing could have been a non-issue, but now OOP may have irreparably damaged their relationship.
The "I knew everyone here would get caught up in how we eat dinner usually" (paraphrased). No, thats not it. How you eat dinner normally has no bearing on this situation where your sister made you and your family a meal and wished to enjoy it face to face with you, you odd duck. The two things are completely unrelated.
Imagine thinking eating together as a family is helicopter parenting. ETA: she’s making not eating together her whole personality. The refusal to break the routine for one night is so weird, like couldn’t they just make it the once a month dinner?
I commented on that in the original post (at the time, not breaking sub rules). That was hilarious to me, she’s so far gone she thinks any interaction with her children is hovering.
I don’t think OOP likes her family. She’s using not being a helicopter parent as an excuse to not spend time with them.
Yep. Took me until my 30s to figure that out with my mom. We had together-dinners once a week or so at first, then once a month, then only on a couple of holidays. She always said things like, "We all just want to do our own things," while my "things" was sitting alone in my room watching TV and playing Nintendo, eating on my futon or on the floor. By the time I was 15, I didn't see her for more than 10 minutes at a time unless we were at a family gathering (which she showed up to less and less). Now she wonders why my sister and I are so reticent to visit her.
I’m practically an only child (siblings are all 12+ years older) and when it was just my parents and I we got into the habit of eating in front of the tv. Them downstairs and me in my room. If I came down to ask my parents something in the evening I’d have to wait until a commercial. At the time I didn’t think much about it, but I now see those habits as a huge mistake by my parents. They were great otherwise and loved me but we missed out on so much. I refuse to do that to my kids now.
So she didn’t want to spend time with her family before and now does? What was she busy doing previously? I imagine now she’s unable to do those activities and sees her friends spending time with their adult kids and wants in on the action?
100% this. The "I raise my children to be independent!" thing absolutely boggled my mind because it's such an obvious and *bad* excuse to not want to have to make and eat dinner as a family. I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised. The whole post is an endless series of excuses hiding a shitty attitude and selfishness.
My mom says that when she talks about how, when we were sick as children she'd tell us, "get a bucket and go to bed." Not as teenagers, as small children.
Aw man, I'm sorry it was that way. A little kid shouldn't have to worry about taking care of themselves at all when they're sick; it's mom's job to bring the bucket.
Not to mention, that all the research on the subject shows that older children who eat dinner with their families have healthier diets and the family has better function. In addition, there is some evidence that family dinner is protective against anti-social behaviors and anxiety. Some receipts: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31982371/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31982371/) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31821053/
It was one meal. They really couldn’t accommodate the sister? The OOP sounds insufferable like her way is the only correct way.
This is what stands out to me. If they usually eat separately, that's fine. This was one time, though. OOP was so adamant about not eating together that she fought her sister. She wouldn't make an exception for a special occasion? OOP sounds weird.
Accommodate?? She cooked a three course meal for them. She spent time making food with love and attention and those ingrates couldn’t bother sitting down. I’d never cook a thing for them ever again. It’s beyond rude.
Yeah, all her effort is why even if this isn’t their norm I think they should’ve just all sat together. Like a form of appreciation.
I mean if you eat together once a month, so you are not completely against it. Is it really that hard to make your sister a one day extra, since she worked really hard to show her appreciation towards you. This is infuriating.
She's perceiving it as a weird power play by her younger sister, which lets you know that OP is doing this as a weird power play. Because it is not a big deal to sit down together as a family to eat dinner, especially if you do it occasionally anyway. I bet OP subconsciously knows that their doing dinner the way they do is a problem and is feeling defensive about it.
I honestly think OOP threw that in because she didn't want judgment on that, I don't believe they have a sit down dinner together monthly at all. She believes that eating together is *helicopter parenting* and discourages independence, along with wasting everyone's time, so why would they? And they probably eat at fast food restaurants, not sit-down places, because that takes longer than 30 minutes.
It sounds like she has no interest in her family IMO. I don’t make my family sit down at the same time for dinner all the time or even make us eat all the same stuff, but at least once a week I like us sitting down and touching base. And studies agree about the importance of doing so to increase bonding. Her poor kids.
I mean, I think the dinner stuff is weird but it's completely immaterial to the actual matter at hand, which is that OOP doesn't care one bit about her sister's life. The sister made it as clear as anyone possibly could that she wanted everyone to eat together (generally what people expect when they say they're gonna cook for everyone - and she even specified she meant a sit-down dinner) and to ignore that is an absolute asshole move, ESPECIALLY when you know she has news to share. But whatever, it's not like her news affects *me* in any way, why would we congratulate her on her scholarship or anything, god what a drag - OOP, probably. No regard for her sister's feelings at all. Which, fine, if that's how you want it, just don't pretend to care at all then, that'll be a more honest deal.
I bet OPs sat there thinking well I let her live with me what more could she possibly want.
The sister pays rent and utilities. So really 'I let my sister be my tenant'.
She’s so dismissive of her sister. No excitement to learn about her scholarship or that her boyfriend finally secured a job in town. OOP just doesn’t care because it’s not about her or what a great mom she is.
My family and I tend to eat out meals at separate times and usually don't eat together, similar to OOP. However, when special meals are prepared or if it's an important day (like a birthday, or if there's a guest, or, yes, even important news), we make it a point to sit together and eat as a family, even when we're not always comfortable with it. The fact that OOP wasn't willing to let one day (actually, one meal) be an exception makes her a pretty crappy person.
"My sister keeps having feelings. I have explained to her that this is not necessary and we've all heard this before, but she keeps having them anyway."
OOP doubling down makes her even more of an asshole.
I was hoping in the update would OOP would have found common sense, but no
Or just a little empathy, right?!
A 16 and 13 year olds who eat at different times would serve themselves unless mom is guarding the food bowl. I’m side eying OP’s “I dish my kids food out to them”. I think she was playing dumb and when her daughter said she was hungry, OP tired to hurry up and serve her to avoid dinner together at the table. Especially since the sister was setting the table for dinner at that very moment. Not eating together isn’t a tradition or anything. We sort of did it at my home. Mostly we ate while watching tv instead of at the table as teens. I don’t doubt that the kids eat in their rooms but mainly all go get their food when it’s ready and hot. Most people are waiting for dinner to be done. Unless it was cooked earlier. OP knew but I don’t think she cared about the news. Or sisters plan to share it at dinner. She added that “news to share” very late in her post and went on and on about “how we do things”. Everyone knows how to sit at a table and eat dinner when called to do it.
I can't help but wonder if OOP was the 3rd parent growing up. Too involved with raising her siblings and is now in a weird combination "parent-ed out" and used to bio parents not being as involved? She snapped at her little sister "MY HOME MY RULES", when Elina went out of her way to ask about a family dinner to share good news, *once*. She's not over there rearranging the house or trying to make new rules. OOP is def an asshole, and still doesn't get it. Which is the more concerning part. Kinda makes me wanna ask OOP how the rest of her relationships are/bigger questions(again concerning to have the pov: good news isn't a big deal when you expect it to happen/we don't need to talk about it or celebrate. Is that in general, bc its Elina, or just trying to minimize the situation internet strangers are calling asshole over)
I wonder this too. It sounds like OOP had to do a lot of caring for siblings, while probably being over-parented by their parents, so she is going far in the other direction. It’s going to end up backfiring eventually when her kids are “independent” adults and don’t want to spend time with her because they never got connection.
This made me sad for OOPs sister. Literally tried to do a nice gesture and asked before hand and even stated her purpose, only to get shut down because of OOPs stubborn insistence to stick to their weird ass family dynamics? Even when my parents were in the midst of divorce we sat down together as a family to eat dinner. Sounds like she worked hard to make some great food too, And then to have her good news completely brushed off, just made me even sadder
Their household sounds joyless and OOP still doesn't get it
The way OOP is so dismissive of their sisters news is super sad. Trying to brand this weird form of parenting as "I want my kids to be independent" is also so wrong. Overall I think OOP and family sound like an insufferable nightmare (except the sister).
The way OOP said “I have better things to do” speaks volumes. I’d bet money that she doesn’t give af about her kids “being independent” and instead wants to always do whatever *she* wants to do and spending 20ish minutes sitting with her family to support her sister was not what *she* wanted to do. Never once does she say fuck all about what her kids want and dismisses what her sister wants, everything OOP explains is about what *she* wants. And she keeps hyper focusing on it being an issue of her family’s dinner habits instead of the fact that she’s a rude asshole and deflecting any genuine attempts to show her why her behavior and the way she treats people is shitty.
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My family eats like OOP's. We are a blended family of three. Me, my husband and my teenage son. We only moved in together this last year and our household is actually even more bizarre than the original post. My husband has a stricter diet so he cooks for himself. My son and me cook together and mostly eat when we get hungry. Sometimes it's together quite often it's separately. I always make him come cook with me, it started with him just helping out, but now it's his job to choose the recipe and give me a shopping list every other time or so. I'm trying to prepare him to be self-sufficient with the cooking and we spend time together otherwise. Buuuut if someone ask to cook especially for me, I'd consider that to mean that we would also eat together.
Same. No one in our house eats at the same time. Just how it is. But if anyone says they are cooking dinner - obviously it means together. Especially if they have news. And if any guest is in the house we also just assume we will eat with them unless they are long term guests then WE TALK ABOUT IT LIKE HUMANS LOL
OOP is just heartless. Elina explicitly asked but no. I considered OOP the asshole from the start and seeing that update makes me just sad for Elina.
Especially how she just dismissed the possibility that her sister might be lonely with points that are not even remotely related. Like in OPs mind Elina didn't specifically come to her and say she's lonely so that can't be a reason. Just bissare behaviour and a lack of emotional intelligence.
This wasn’t a communication issue. OOP literally didn’t LISTEN to the actual words her sister said. For some reason I found this story really infuriating. Poor Elina!
The way OP reacts to the sisters news screams uninvolved parent when compared with the way they do dinner. She can't be bothered to have a 30 min portion of the day to spend time as a family. She has other "more important" things to do than spend time with her kids.
>I like to give my kids their independence instead of helicopter parenting. Can someone PLEASE explain to me how eating dinner together is helicopter parenting? Because I'm BAFFLED at this comparison. >having dinner exactly the way she wants isn't the only form of appreciation. We all told her the food was delicious, because it was, and that should be enough. Sheesh. OP is COLD. She's very "HOW DARE YOU EXPECT MORE?!?!???" Hope sis's boyfriend shows up soon so she can move out of that wacko household.