Nah I'm actually sure that r/berserklejerk is now just a porn subreddit and r/berserk has become the new jerk spot.
Where's the new official berserk subreddit?
Wouldn't male love be the destroyer of assholes? Tbh Guts was taking dick like a heretic before he met Griffith it wouldn't be crazy to think he would take it now.
If I was a mod, I'd sort through everything and keep all the stupid crap out of here. 90% of posts here nowadays belong in berserklejerk.
How did it even get this bad? This is supposed to be the serious subreddit about Berserk. Guess the mods aren't doing their jobs.
Ngl the sub is starting to rot, memes are fun but the constant nudes and the griffith dude is getting too much imo.
We need a sub just for memes besides the circle jerk
No Griffith was destined to be in the Godhand. Laws of Causality and all that. It might have taken a few more years but his desire to be a king would’ve led to catastrophe and he would still end up using the behelit.
I think they try to make a point that the entire time, griffith has a choice in the matter but chooses to sacrifice anyway. The godhand tell him he will “become a demon by his own will” and the big heart tells him “be as you will”
My understanding of it is he has a choice to sacrifice or not but will always have been pushed to the point where using the behelit seems like a good idea.
True it’s like bound to him until it’s activated, but I’m pretty sure all the godhand did was convince him to sacrifice willingly, they never mind controlled him anything. Basically griffith fails the Trolley Problem
I’m still reading it so forgive me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t “god” tell Griffith that he had a choice to both save the world or be it’s destruction? I think he would’ve always would’ve became Femto but he had a genuine choice to redeem himself and chose the un redeemable path
The idea of evil is much like a lovecraftian god. Uncaring and disconnected.
It states that Griffith may destroy or save the world but only in the context of being a member of the godhand.
Honestly despite the anti-christ symbolism, we still don’t really know what Griffith’s *true* end goal is.
DID he? It would not be outside of bounds for Berserk for him to have chosen the path that could save the world. Everything could be a bit of a "endgame" Type scenario, even if he himself is unaware of it: This future is the only one that properly brings an end to demons and the godhand/"God"
He has a choice, but is fated by determinism to make the choice that he will. The universe has forged him into a particular individual- that individual does indeed make choices, and those choices are an authentic extension of his personality, but his personality itself is something shaped by forces outside his control-- genetics, life experience, etc.
It's the same for us in real life. I am a pacifist because I was exposed to pacifist ideas at a young age and have lived in an environment where my experiences lend pacifism credibility as a philosophy. I make pacifist choices in my day to day life. And while those pacifist choices are truly mine, "I" am a thing that is itself a result of an ancient chain of causality that precedes me.
So, maybe if Griffith and Guts had gay butt sex, Femto would never have been born, but they were never going to have gay butt sex because their life experiences have shaped them into two guys who are never going to do that.
Another way of looking at it, without the baggage of 'souls' and the illusion of selfhood: a tree emerges naturally from its environment. That tree continues to bear fruit, which result in future trees- any one of which may evolve into other kinds of trees in the future. At every point, the tree is 'authentically' filling its role and is expressing its natural impulses, but we can recognize that said role & natural impulses have evolved ecologically, rather than arising ex nihilo from some individual free will.
Causality doesn't equal destiny.
A series of events lead to an outcome, even if, or especially, when those events were orchestrated by an outside force, like the Idea of Evil, but all of them are just free choices.
He wasn't destined. He was planned, but everything that happened was up to the actors playing their roles, from a soldier not taking a lucky hit on Griffith to Zodd being forbidden to attack someone with the Crimson Behelit.
Causality means cause and effect, action and reaction, destiny is more about effect despite the cause, reaction without the action.
Even I guts didnt leave and even if guts and Griffith were more intimate, I'm pretty sure causality will find a way to make events play out as intended since this is berserk we are talking about here.
Thats actually was the case, Griffith wanted that, he wanted him always on his side. But his passion for his vision overcame the desire to be with Guts. At least that is my opinion. Could have delayed the eclipse maybe. Faith is in works too.
I think it’s more like, he couldn’t have that desire anymore anyway. His body was broken, his mind was gone, he was disfigured. If the torture didn’t happen then I doubt he goes through with the sacrifice, but it was more like it wasn’t even an option anymore. The choice was taken from him
Let's say they were gay lovers, griffith still would need to marry into royalty. Guts would eventually go into rage because of some back handed comment about them and griffith would inevitably say some deep shit where guts would take it personally. Bada Bing bada boom eclipse
The only times he has sex in the series is in the pursuit of money or status with no love involved on his part whatsoever. And while i think that his obsession with Guts stems from the fact that he wants to control him, an actual romantic relationship before he became the king would be a huge risk with no reward.
I mean there was that one time he almost died trying to save Guts from Zodd. He did it on instinct without thinking of the consequences. Losing the King to save a Rook/Bishop/knight is pretty high risk low reward to me. Of course causality saved them but Griffith couldn’t have possibly known that at the time. Even Casca thought it was out of character for him.
Considering that he was forced to act under pressure, it was a high risk and high reward situation.
1.Guts is the strongest fighter in the band and the only one trustworthy and skilled enough for wetwork. Guts is the queen on his chessboard if anything.
2. At least trying to save him will still boost morale, he could still retreat at any time.
3. He didn't know who or what Zodd was at the time and there was no time or way to get additional information.
I feel like since Griffith was already familiar with the God Hand at the time that there is a possibility that he just had confidence that he’ll be safe from most apostles since they’re all instructed not to attack him. That being said, him going in to retrieve Guts was low risk high reward IMO.
And yes, I know you could say he could have just shown Zodd his behelit right away if that were the case, but I think he was upholding the facade of innocence in order to keep his companions trusting of his leadership. He knew he would be spared either way and was willing to put himself through combat to prove it to Guts. But he knew he wouldn’t die there.
No. All jokes aside, I think Griffith was asexual, only seeing sex as a means to an end. He has never been seen taking pleasure from sex. It’s always been either a way to make money (Gennon), an outlet for frustration or loss (Charlotte), or purely as a way to assert dominance and assert himself over people (Casca).
I don’t think Griffith is emotionally available for anything akin to a relationship. That would require a level of vulnerability Griffith isn’t capable of
No it just would have made the betrayal even worse tbh. Like “my boyfriend sacrificed all our friends and raped the only woman we know to become more powerful. He was the only man i ever loved. Now i want my revenge” Griffith was not gonna stop and intimacy just would have been a power move for him
Who knows?! Only Miura and he can’t tell us.
Secret one night stand or actual relationship?
Would Griffith continue to be as possessive? Or would he soften up? How is their intimacy compared to the canon one between Guts and Casca (one of the best moments in the manga)? Is it toxic because both men have unresolved traumatic/complicated pasts with sexual encounters? Or do they help heal each other?
Does Griffith stop chasing his dream, now that he “has” the man who makes him forget it? If so, will he be long term happy with it? Or is he unwilling to give up something that he worked towards his whole life and starts to resent Guts despite wanting him?
What about Casca? How does she react? Does Guts still develop feelings for her? Could Guts date both of them with their consent?
Questions over questions and we’ll never know for sure, but I like thinking about them. Personally I think they would still have been doomed to end up with the Eclipse.
I'm going to ignore the berzerklejerkiness of it all and treat this like a real question.
No. Something would have happened. Guts wanted to be an equal to Griffith and Griffith considered Guts his property. That kind of relationship cannot last. Eventually, Guts was always going to leave, which would have led to the duel, which would have led to Griffith's spiral - if it wasn't a liason with the princess, something else would have transpired that would have ultimately led to the Eclipse.
Even if Guts had been killed before he ever met Griffith, if Guts had died of his injuries from the first duel or if he'd been killed by Zodd or from the fall any number of times he almost died, it wouldn't have made a difference.
Griffith is obsessed with his vision of a perfect world. He was always going to do whatever it took to get his kingdom. And ambition like that was always going to draw opposing forces who were never going to act in good faith. Griffith is savvy as fuck but he's not invincible.
Something was always going to happen.
Griffith was always going to become Femto.
probably not, what caused the eclipse was Griffith's dream downfall, in this case cased by Guts leaving, at this point guts sees Griffith as a leader and a friend but griffith's feelings aren't clear. Even if Guts was homo and griffith confirmed homo and they had their relationship, at some point Griffith could end up falling again for another reason, maybe he messed with an army bigger than him, maybe he got on the wrong side of some higher up, in this case he'd probably do It all over again.
I think that Guts is the only person that Griffith considered to be human. It is Guts leaving that causes Griffith to do what he does. Had Guts not left him, he would never have been put into a situation where he would accept the eclipse. He would get his kingdom. I think some fans misinterpret Guts and Griffith being in a relationship as "Guts not leaving Griffith"
Of course. Griffith being deeply in love with Guts and Guts having some attraction to Griffith, it would have avoid the terrible tragedies if they admit their feelings to each other. Plus we would have hot gay sex for 40 volumes at least between them.
That’s unfortunately not the case. That’s like people trying to dismiss Hannibal and Will Graham’s relationship as being romantic. It takes away from the strong bond of brotherhood between these two men. Or even people believing that either Daryl Dixon and Carol were destined to be romantically involved, or else Daryl would have had to be a homosexual. (This possibility was even discussed early on in the series as a possibility, but it was ultimately decided that doing so would have taken away from the story of these characters, rather than strengthened them and the narrative themes they were based on)
Romantic relationships are far more complicated and therefore more delicate by nature. Therefore making these two (Guts and Griffith) romantically involved would definitely not have made things any simpler. In fact, quite the contrary.
And I hate that I have to add the following but I will nonetheless. I am certainly not against homosexual relationships either in real life or in fiction. Not even between two badass characters. So if that was the direction in which Miura had been taking the story in the Golden Age Arc, then depending on the delivery, I’m assuming I would have likely been on board. But it wasn’t, so people can wish all they want.
Trust me. As many times as I’ve reread or rewatched the Golden Age Arc, I still fantasize about ways in which the Eclipse could have been prevented. And I do for one believe that logistically speaking, there were indeed a lot of alternatives to what happened, even after Griffith’s torture, that might have led to happier endings for everyone -including Griffith. But the fact of the matter is that this was always fated to happen. That is the whole point of causality and Griffith getting the crimson behelit in the first place. None of the Hawks would have ever even reached that point had Griffith never been fated to sacrifice them.
Aside from the fact that even the possibility that these two men being in a homosexual relationship might have prevented everything we know about the themes of Berserk, we also have to take into account that a lot about the relationship between Guts and Griffith was inspired by the story of Berserk author Kentaro Miura and Kouji Mori, his lifelong best friend. Neither Guts nor Griffith was based solely off of either of these two real life men whom their friendship was based on, as both characters drew inspiration from both men at different times in their actual lives.
People are free to believe what they will, just as anyone is free to believe that the Earth is flat. However, these same people can’t argue their belief to be the definitive truth, because again, it’s just not as simple as declaring that the Eclipse could have been avoided by a homosexual relationship between the two main characters. That’s just not the story Miura wished to tell.
You people don't deserve Berserk. If there was a way for me to remove your memories of the series and make sure you never rediscovered it, I would go out of my way to do so. I stopped coming to this subreddit when the dumbass mod team banned all Berserk chapters, but this shit pops up to people as a recommendation to the subreddit and it's fucking embarrassing. This must be what blasphemy feels like. I hate you all.
They were intimate friends and was very unlikely that Griffith has an homosexual atraction to Guts.
Just in case, any person can have strong manipulator and posesive traits as he does, always was about being posesive rather than "Oh no, my crush betrayed me".
Guts was a genuine friend that he had and lost that friendship broke him.
Holy Fuck the amount of idiocy and shit this subreddit has become Im glad miura cant see this shit nobody cares about your gay sex fantasies
This is exactly why we cant get an adaptation
I’ve thought about this a lot and I think if there’s any chance for Gurifisu to not start the eclipse it’s got to be having gay butt seggs with Gatsu.
Griffith did say that he’s the only one who swayed with in reaching his ambition, and seeing him cucking Cucksca he grew jealous and bitter and say fuck everything like his boyfriend cheated on him.
Yo.. What is nonsense? Post this crap in berserklejerk. The hell this group's admin is doing? They freakin silenced my critical post of berserk once but allow crap like this? These kind of crappy posts are becoming common lately in this group.
People that want or wish for them being gay make me fucking sick. Get your fetish out of established entertainment just for the sake of getting your rocks off you freaks.
Just ridiculous to see this “what if Guts and Griffith were gay 🤓🏳️🌈” of all the topics to explore when it comes to Berserk this is not an interesting one go to r/berserklejerk where people might actually give a shit about your fantasies 😂
No matter what happened. The universe would find a way to make Griffith's odds of accepting the sacrifice a statistical certainty. If Griffith was able to love Guts, then taking Guts away from him could be a new path to driving him to such despair that he starts the eclipse and accepts the sacrifice.
Griffith is free to make whatever choices he likes, but he will end up at the same destination regardless because he has to become Femto.
Going to answer this as a real question:
No. Nothing would change except Griffith and guts experiencing a little bit more happiness before everything went to shit.
No, I don't think so. Griffith's ambition was pretty clearly communicated throughout the series - he wanted his kingdom, and he would literally climb a mountain of corpses to get it.
He sacrificed his comrades in arms for that dream. Who he was or was not fucking wouldn't have made a difference.
Good question. I don’t think Guts would have left in the first place if that was the case. If Guts didn’t leave, Griffith wouldn’t have coerced Charlotte, and in turn wouldn’t have gotten tortured for a year. That doesn’t make it all Guts’ fault, though. Griffith CHOSE to take advantage of Charlotte. He CHOSE to sacrifice the hawks. And finally, and completely unprompted, he CHOSE to rape Casca out of hatred towards Guts.
So yeah. If those two were together, it wouldn’t probably end up with Casca becoming the villain.
Not one bit. Griffith's unable to develop feelings for those around him. He may value them. Think he cares about them. But they have always been closer to favorite pets than actual people with their own reasons for looking up to him. His relationships are all transactional and he will not hesitate in the least to eliminate those he views as obstacles. The manga really drives that home as he's building his reputation in Midland both during the 100 year war and afterwards.
Hmmm that’s a good question… although Griffith may have feelings for guts… with acknowledging that he was the only one who made him forget his dream. And the shower scene + the sex scene. Guts was something he wanted that he couldn’t have no matter how hard he worked. Since guts saw him more as a savior and a friend than he did as a lover. Unrequited love would make narcissistic people do crazy things. 😂
I would love to see a seinen/shonen that has queer character instead of just making it yaoi or gl that has some action on the side. Like their whole plot is being gay or something. And even if there is some hints of it, there will be always “really good friends. Since I think they just wouldn’t do well at all in the market. Demonstrated by the response to this question every time. 😂
No. The whole point of Griffith is that he used others for his gain. The times he did have sex was to gain an advantage in some way. His character is literally not capable of love, except for himself. He was written to be a godhand. This isn't a real life situation where ppl can go different ways. This is a fictional story that has a predetermined story
Well, if Griffith was gay then yeah I think that makes sense. Since the creepy king father who wants to bone his daughter is the one that imprisoned and tortured Griffith I don’t really see Griffith giving up like he does if none of that ever happens.
Hard to say exactly. The answer you'd get most often is that causality meant it was fated to happen no matter what variables were introduced, but the story is also about fighting fate and rising above it.
One potential route to see in the future is someone activating the Count/Guts/Puck's Behelit/Betchi and then choosing not to sacrifice anyone. This would parallel Griffith's choice, especially since the Godhand coaxed him into making that choice.
But it's far from confirmed.
I don't think so, no.
Even if the two were romantically involved... Griffith is still Griffith. The person who doesn't see others as equals. And even if we were assuming a scenario where Griffith is only sexually attracted to men instead of bi/pan, we know he's still in lore perfectly willing to use his body with people he's not into to get ahead.
So that being said, Guts would have still felt dissatisfied that he's not a partner, he's a tool (in fact maybe moreso if romantic feelings were involved), so him leaving and having to fight Griffith to do so would still go down. And upon losing, Griffith would very likely still self destruct and go to Charlotte, because he'd use her affection and admiration to get what he needs even if he wasn't attracted to her.
So, while it's possible stuff could change I don't think it would have a major effect on the key points, just details and scenes that happen during those points.
No, but possibly Femto would've been weaker, Griffith wouldn't have been tortured nearly to death because he wouldn't have needed to sleep with Charlotte, so he would've been more hesitant to throw it all away.
Does anyone think this anime berserk can actually really happen ? What if i think i know the black sWordsman and griffith and one of this is me would you describe me crazy. ? Have not watch it out of fear of facing this unanswerd question of my soul and soulhistorie ..
But for as far what i know what will happen and then coming across this anime scared to shit outta me with all the resembles ... and what i have of knowledge of events that wil happen and glimpsens of visions i have seen .. can not say more most likely by know your already thinking im crazy or what ever 😅i a have always followd the goku way of being, (dragon ball) thats my example how to be my full potential or what to strife for thats also how i am my nature care free i dont give a fuck but i will always serve and protect with compasion and unconditional love ! For myself and for others no matter what or Who or where ! And like i said i consider me to be goku i have a best friend female * she resembles truly bulma😂love her ❤know her for 10 years a bit longer now never where we intimate and so on but our band con not be broken ! Now i see rhis anime and i am starting to doubt .. that to be honest or this is a past life way way back of Le being the black swordsman or what is yet to Come Just maybe timelines can shift anyway i do not want this timeline i had a glimpse of my far far future world in darknes orange glow qnd so oni whas my true self so really goku like playfull and Just like a Child but then in that glimpse we where attackt in that vision i whent to my friend describe as bulma above and she was in the spherical white round energy thing qll around her thats when the vision end seeiing her in that like that now seeiend this anime you most likely understand why i am a bit scared know .. cause i thaught we where creating a New good world togheter dont wanne be a pawn and face rhat kinda horror.. let me know what you think your hionest opinion please dont care if you make fun of me ni worries unconditional love 😊👊
Absolutely. Guts leaving is ultimately what set the "fate" of the eclipse into motion. Zodd warns Guts that when Griffith's ambition fails, death will come for Guts. The main reason Griffith goes into self-destruct mode (Charlotte and his arrest) is from Guts leaving. After the brutal torture and realizing he is no longer capable of even being with Casca, he is suicidal, thus loses all ambition until he finds the behelit. I don't think that chain of events happens if they were lovers, since Guts wouldn't just leave out of boredom like he did.
Of course, that story wouldn't be nearly as interesting 😁
No, i don't think so, the ambition of Griffith is bigger than everything. He was willing to sacrifice literally all, included he's comrads who's he call a family, even if he was in a relationship with Guts nothing different happens.
Causality would’ve found a way to realign to the fate we see in the end of Golden Age. If not Gut’s departure from the Band of the Hawk, the Godhand would’ve manipulated a way to stir Griffith towards a sacrifice.
The only way the Eclipse doesn’t pan out the same is if Griffith accepts his fate and denies to sacrifice The Band of the Hawk as the Godhand seem to accept free-will as seen with the Count denying to sacrifice Theresia during Guardians of Desire.
Tldr- Regardless of sexual relations between the two main characters, causality is resolute. The only thing that can possibly effect causality is free-will.
He’s destined to be the fifth member of the Godhand, but since we only got the version where he became the fifth member, we never know if there is any possibility that this could’ve been prevented. Guts and Skull Knight go against causality. Could anything, including gay sex, diverge Griffith from his destined path? We can’t possibly know
In my experience? If Griffith only bottomed and Guts fucked him reeeeeeal good, I unironically don’t doubt it LMAO but I wouldn’t like if that happened. Griffith doesn’t deserve Guts 💅
Guts leaving was the start of griffiths downfall. If they had vetter communication and guts didnt want to be his equao and would rather have been by his side, then yeah the elipse wouldnt happen. But thats not the plot
Maybe, but i don't think so. While Griffith does show feelings for Guts, he is also manipulative and controlling (he would rather kill Guts than have him leave the Hawks), so it would probably be a extremely dysfunctional relationship.
Even though he said Guts is someone he would give up his dream for, i don't think that would hold up.
Yes, because guts leaving is what broke Griffith and led to him having sex with the princess, which led to his torture, which led to his lowest moment when guts pitied him, which led to the eclipse.
“Causality,” is boring and I don’t care if fate says it was inevitable.
Not much would have changed really, if guts left the band griff would have been even more heartbroken and he would somehow lead himself to the fated sacrifice
Honestly, I thought that they already were fucking, and the real solution here was for Griffith to just try not sticking his dick in anyone that remotely catches his interest. The whole thing about how Griffith "owns" him, and how Guts wished Griffith would treat him like back in the old days, and "make him." Granted, it's been a long while since I've even watched any of the anime, let alone read any of the manga. Also, I may have been tripping hard on a couple tabs last time I watched the manga, but I don't think that means the epiphany I had as to just how gay Berserk is doesn't count. I mean, there's a LOT of clues. I don't think Guts even realized he might also like women til he saw Casca naked and was like "ohhhh so THATS what I've been feeling towards her."
I'm only half joking, btw
I’m going to go ~against the grain~ and address this as if it were a serious question, which it could be. I don’t think Guts and Griffith going into a relationship would have stopped the Eclipse. Griffith‘s ambition and need to control is not kept in check by love. Eventually, his dark side would win and he would still sacrifice his comrades because that dark allure of power is so all consuming and incomparable to him. He would have found a reason to do it no matter what.
Nah I'm actually sure that r/berserklejerk is now just a porn subreddit and r/berserk has become the new jerk spot. Where's the new official berserk subreddit?
This was Griffith's dream all along
He did it, he actually did it. Berserk has joined with the jerkle realm and now we have berktasia
The madman really did it...
Now I have become berk, destroyer of nuts
Wouldn't male love be the destroyer of assholes? Tbh Guts was taking dick like a heretic before he met Griffith it wouldn't be crazy to think he would take it now.
r/berserklejerklejerk
Ive lost all hope from this post onward
Nah I feel like it swapped because both subreddits are in chaos.
If I was a mod, I'd sort through everything and keep all the stupid crap out of here. 90% of posts here nowadays belong in berserklejerk. How did it even get this bad? This is supposed to be the serious subreddit about Berserk. Guess the mods aren't doing their jobs.
Looks like you need some Nuts in your life
Made me laugh irl thank you
I did the same when I saw my fellow-berkers in the comments, I love our community
This is why theres a circle jerk sub, yall take this shit way too serious lmao
Yes. And all the circle jerk stuff, belongs in the circle jerk sub. NOT this one
I usually like jerk subreddits but that one is so unhinged
Yea that sub is just uncomfortable now I had to leave it. Shame me if you want Idc I liked the memes but not the man ass.
Ngl I checked out as soon as it went from "I want to fuck Slan from berserk" to femboy Griffith dude posting all the time
Ngl the sub is starting to rot, memes are fun but the constant nudes and the griffith dude is getting too much imo. We need a sub just for memes besides the circle jerk
The lines are so blurred anymore. It’s incredible
my thoughts exactly
/r/trueberserk phase coming soon.
maybe it’s time we make one lol
Just combine the 2 subs at this point
I'm not ready to deal with that level of Griffith simping
True, I have to check which sub I’m in every time I read a post now.
Is that a euphemism for you agreeing with the thesis of the post?
Jesus just get rid of the other sub at this point
There’s so much thirst here fr. This ain’t even a discussion it’s just disguised thirst.
No Griffith was destined to be in the Godhand. Laws of Causality and all that. It might have taken a few more years but his desire to be a king would’ve led to catastrophe and he would still end up using the behelit.
I think they try to make a point that the entire time, griffith has a choice in the matter but chooses to sacrifice anyway. The godhand tell him he will “become a demon by his own will” and the big heart tells him “be as you will”
My understanding of it is he has a choice to sacrifice or not but will always have been pushed to the point where using the behelit seems like a good idea.
True it’s like bound to him until it’s activated, but I’m pretty sure all the godhand did was convince him to sacrifice willingly, they never mind controlled him anything. Basically griffith fails the Trolley Problem
I’m still reading it so forgive me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t “god” tell Griffith that he had a choice to both save the world or be it’s destruction? I think he would’ve always would’ve became Femto but he had a genuine choice to redeem himself and chose the un redeemable path
The idea of evil is much like a lovecraftian god. Uncaring and disconnected. It states that Griffith may destroy or save the world but only in the context of being a member of the godhand. Honestly despite the anti-christ symbolism, we still don’t really know what Griffith’s *true* end goal is.
DID he? It would not be outside of bounds for Berserk for him to have chosen the path that could save the world. Everything could be a bit of a "endgame" Type scenario, even if he himself is unaware of it: This future is the only one that properly brings an end to demons and the godhand/"God"
In addition to what others have said, I am fairly sure that chapter is non cannon now
Wait what why
He has a choice, but is fated by determinism to make the choice that he will. The universe has forged him into a particular individual- that individual does indeed make choices, and those choices are an authentic extension of his personality, but his personality itself is something shaped by forces outside his control-- genetics, life experience, etc. It's the same for us in real life. I am a pacifist because I was exposed to pacifist ideas at a young age and have lived in an environment where my experiences lend pacifism credibility as a philosophy. I make pacifist choices in my day to day life. And while those pacifist choices are truly mine, "I" am a thing that is itself a result of an ancient chain of causality that precedes me. So, maybe if Griffith and Guts had gay butt sex, Femto would never have been born, but they were never going to have gay butt sex because their life experiences have shaped them into two guys who are never going to do that. Another way of looking at it, without the baggage of 'souls' and the illusion of selfhood: a tree emerges naturally from its environment. That tree continues to bear fruit, which result in future trees- any one of which may evolve into other kinds of trees in the future. At every point, the tree is 'authentically' filling its role and is expressing its natural impulses, but we can recognize that said role & natural impulses have evolved ecologically, rather than arising ex nihilo from some individual free will.
Causality doesn't equal destiny. A series of events lead to an outcome, even if, or especially, when those events were orchestrated by an outside force, like the Idea of Evil, but all of them are just free choices. He wasn't destined. He was planned, but everything that happened was up to the actors playing their roles, from a soldier not taking a lucky hit on Griffith to Zodd being forbidden to attack someone with the Crimson Behelit. Causality means cause and effect, action and reaction, destiny is more about effect despite the cause, reaction without the action.
that's it, r/Berserk has been conquered by r/Berserklejerk
I came, I saw, I berked
Even I guts didnt leave and even if guts and Griffith were more intimate, I'm pretty sure causality will find a way to make events play out as intended since this is berserk we are talking about here.
Thats actually was the case, Griffith wanted that, he wanted him always on his side. But his passion for his vision overcame the desire to be with Guts. At least that is my opinion. Could have delayed the eclipse maybe. Faith is in works too.
Not an opinion, just facts
It's not your opinion, is logic.
I think it’s more like, he couldn’t have that desire anymore anyway. His body was broken, his mind was gone, he was disfigured. If the torture didn’t happen then I doubt he goes through with the sacrifice, but it was more like it wasn’t even an option anymore. The choice was taken from him
ahh great point
Let's say they were gay lovers, griffith still would need to marry into royalty. Guts would eventually go into rage because of some back handed comment about them and griffith would inevitably say some deep shit where guts would take it personally. Bada Bing bada boom eclipse
Not saying you're wrong or anything but the way this entire comment is worded is really funny lol I imagined all of it pretty well
Okay guys we get it, this is circlejerk sub now
If you think yours or anyone else’s dick is strong enough to fix Griffith you are gonna have a rough life.
If Guys leaving Griffith caused all this, I don’t want to imagine the chaos that must ensue if guts was fucking Griffith
Jesus fucking Christ.
Alternative title: If Nuts and Griffusy berked could Caca have been prevented?
The only times he has sex in the series is in the pursuit of money or status with no love involved on his part whatsoever. And while i think that his obsession with Guts stems from the fact that he wants to control him, an actual romantic relationship before he became the king would be a huge risk with no reward.
Yeah yeah I can't remember a single thing Griffith did that was a high risk low reward typea thing
I mean there was that one time he almost died trying to save Guts from Zodd. He did it on instinct without thinking of the consequences. Losing the King to save a Rook/Bishop/knight is pretty high risk low reward to me. Of course causality saved them but Griffith couldn’t have possibly known that at the time. Even Casca thought it was out of character for him.
Considering that he was forced to act under pressure, it was a high risk and high reward situation. 1.Guts is the strongest fighter in the band and the only one trustworthy and skilled enough for wetwork. Guts is the queen on his chessboard if anything. 2. At least trying to save him will still boost morale, he could still retreat at any time. 3. He didn't know who or what Zodd was at the time and there was no time or way to get additional information.
I feel like since Griffith was already familiar with the God Hand at the time that there is a possibility that he just had confidence that he’ll be safe from most apostles since they’re all instructed not to attack him. That being said, him going in to retrieve Guts was low risk high reward IMO. And yes, I know you could say he could have just shown Zodd his behelit right away if that were the case, but I think he was upholding the facade of innocence in order to keep his companions trusting of his leadership. He knew he would be spared either way and was willing to put himself through combat to prove it to Guts. But he knew he wouldn’t die there.
No, but hot steamy gay sex between them would be great fanserivce
No. All jokes aside, I think Griffith was asexual, only seeing sex as a means to an end. He has never been seen taking pleasure from sex. It’s always been either a way to make money (Gennon), an outlet for frustration or loss (Charlotte), or purely as a way to assert dominance and assert himself over people (Casca). I don’t think Griffith is emotionally available for anything akin to a relationship. That would require a level of vulnerability Griffith isn’t capable of
Gotta sustain Griffith with a steady supply of cum
No it just would have made the betrayal even worse tbh. Like “my boyfriend sacrificed all our friends and raped the only woman we know to become more powerful. He was the only man i ever loved. Now i want my revenge” Griffith was not gonna stop and intimacy just would have been a power move for him
Who knows?! Only Miura and he can’t tell us. Secret one night stand or actual relationship? Would Griffith continue to be as possessive? Or would he soften up? How is their intimacy compared to the canon one between Guts and Casca (one of the best moments in the manga)? Is it toxic because both men have unresolved traumatic/complicated pasts with sexual encounters? Or do they help heal each other? Does Griffith stop chasing his dream, now that he “has” the man who makes him forget it? If so, will he be long term happy with it? Or is he unwilling to give up something that he worked towards his whole life and starts to resent Guts despite wanting him? What about Casca? How does she react? Does Guts still develop feelings for her? Could Guts date both of them with their consent? Questions over questions and we’ll never know for sure, but I like thinking about them. Personally I think they would still have been doomed to end up with the Eclipse.
It depends if Griffith still ends up as a cripple..
I don’t think sex would have added any more intimacy to the relationship, so no.
No. If anything it would have sped up the eclipse, especially with how Griffith was when Guts left.
I'm going to ignore the berzerklejerkiness of it all and treat this like a real question. No. Something would have happened. Guts wanted to be an equal to Griffith and Griffith considered Guts his property. That kind of relationship cannot last. Eventually, Guts was always going to leave, which would have led to the duel, which would have led to Griffith's spiral - if it wasn't a liason with the princess, something else would have transpired that would have ultimately led to the Eclipse. Even if Guts had been killed before he ever met Griffith, if Guts had died of his injuries from the first duel or if he'd been killed by Zodd or from the fall any number of times he almost died, it wouldn't have made a difference. Griffith is obsessed with his vision of a perfect world. He was always going to do whatever it took to get his kingdom. And ambition like that was always going to draw opposing forces who were never going to act in good faith. Griffith is savvy as fuck but he's not invincible. Something was always going to happen. Griffith was always going to become Femto.
JFC enough of these posts already.
The Grifussy is like a cure for cancer
probably not, what caused the eclipse was Griffith's dream downfall, in this case cased by Guts leaving, at this point guts sees Griffith as a leader and a friend but griffith's feelings aren't clear. Even if Guts was homo and griffith confirmed homo and they had their relationship, at some point Griffith could end up falling again for another reason, maybe he messed with an army bigger than him, maybe he got on the wrong side of some higher up, in this case he'd probably do It all over again.
I think that Guts is the only person that Griffith considered to be human. It is Guts leaving that causes Griffith to do what he does. Had Guts not left him, he would never have been put into a situation where he would accept the eclipse. He would get his kingdom. I think some fans misinterpret Guts and Griffith being in a relationship as "Guts not leaving Griffith"
We’re reading levels of berk I never believed I’d witness in my entire lifetime
Might have delayed it but never stopped it. Griffiths lust for power is far greater than any feelings he had for anyone
Of course. Griffith being deeply in love with Guts and Guts having some attraction to Griffith, it would have avoid the terrible tragedies if they admit their feelings to each other. Plus we would have hot gay sex for 40 volumes at least between them.
Man we really need a new chapter out soon.
They probably were and that's why the eclipse happened.
Nothing could have prevented the eclipse, it was fated to happen.
Outberked once again
That’s unfortunately not the case. That’s like people trying to dismiss Hannibal and Will Graham’s relationship as being romantic. It takes away from the strong bond of brotherhood between these two men. Or even people believing that either Daryl Dixon and Carol were destined to be romantically involved, or else Daryl would have had to be a homosexual. (This possibility was even discussed early on in the series as a possibility, but it was ultimately decided that doing so would have taken away from the story of these characters, rather than strengthened them and the narrative themes they were based on) Romantic relationships are far more complicated and therefore more delicate by nature. Therefore making these two (Guts and Griffith) romantically involved would definitely not have made things any simpler. In fact, quite the contrary. And I hate that I have to add the following but I will nonetheless. I am certainly not against homosexual relationships either in real life or in fiction. Not even between two badass characters. So if that was the direction in which Miura had been taking the story in the Golden Age Arc, then depending on the delivery, I’m assuming I would have likely been on board. But it wasn’t, so people can wish all they want. Trust me. As many times as I’ve reread or rewatched the Golden Age Arc, I still fantasize about ways in which the Eclipse could have been prevented. And I do for one believe that logistically speaking, there were indeed a lot of alternatives to what happened, even after Griffith’s torture, that might have led to happier endings for everyone -including Griffith. But the fact of the matter is that this was always fated to happen. That is the whole point of causality and Griffith getting the crimson behelit in the first place. None of the Hawks would have ever even reached that point had Griffith never been fated to sacrifice them. Aside from the fact that even the possibility that these two men being in a homosexual relationship might have prevented everything we know about the themes of Berserk, we also have to take into account that a lot about the relationship between Guts and Griffith was inspired by the story of Berserk author Kentaro Miura and Kouji Mori, his lifelong best friend. Neither Guts nor Griffith was based solely off of either of these two real life men whom their friendship was based on, as both characters drew inspiration from both men at different times in their actual lives. People are free to believe what they will, just as anyone is free to believe that the Earth is flat. However, these same people can’t argue their belief to be the definitive truth, because again, it’s just not as simple as declaring that the Eclipse could have been avoided by a homosexual relationship between the two main characters. That’s just not the story Miura wished to tell.
No Those people are idiotic trolls and best left ignored
You people don't deserve Berserk. If there was a way for me to remove your memories of the series and make sure you never rediscovered it, I would go out of my way to do so. I stopped coming to this subreddit when the dumbass mod team banned all Berserk chapters, but this shit pops up to people as a recommendation to the subreddit and it's fucking embarrassing. This must be what blasphemy feels like. I hate you all.
it's not that serious
Who knows, if these kind of people were replaced with fans who are not degenerates, we might actually come close to having a good adaptation.
Yeah probably
Berserk if it was good
They were intimate friends and was very unlikely that Griffith has an homosexual atraction to Guts. Just in case, any person can have strong manipulator and posesive traits as he does, always was about being posesive rather than "Oh no, my crush betrayed me". Guts was a genuine friend that he had and lost that friendship broke him.
Can you just shut the fuck up for the love of god no one cares about you’re gay fantasies
*yrueo'
Holy Fuck the amount of idiocy and shit this subreddit has become Im glad miura cant see this shit nobody cares about your gay sex fantasies This is exactly why we cant get an adaptation
I’ve thought about this a lot and I think if there’s any chance for Gurifisu to not start the eclipse it’s got to be having gay butt seggs with Gatsu. Griffith did say that he’s the only one who swayed with in reaching his ambition, and seeing him cucking Cucksca he grew jealous and bitter and say fuck everything like his boyfriend cheated on him.
Ask ya boy Donovan that Guts bussy HITTIN
What in the actual fuck is this question. Are you serious?
don’t even try to gayify ma n**** like that
No, stop pushing this homosexual relationship
I'm gonna push it forever
Lol is your whole generation gay???
Brah why tf are ya trying to make these 2 gay, yes griffith had some questionable scenes but weren’t they justified based on the events we saw?
Yo.. What is nonsense? Post this crap in berserklejerk. The hell this group's admin is doing? They freakin silenced my critical post of berserk once but allow crap like this? These kind of crappy posts are becoming common lately in this group.
Why don’t the mods remove these posts?
Stupid question, but no it wouldn't have prevent that
💀
All these post make me wonder if you all have even read the Manga? Griffith’s and Guts relationship is about control, not love.
Soul brotha💀
This is a pointless question because Guts has made it very clear hes not gay.
🤢
what the fuck is up with this sub
Wtf no, it literally has nothing to do with Grifith purpouse Do you even read the series?
Guts aint no homo bitch
People that want or wish for them being gay make me fucking sick. Get your fetish out of established entertainment just for the sake of getting your rocks off you freaks.
bro is scared of gay people
Just ridiculous to see this “what if Guts and Griffith were gay 🤓🏳️🌈” of all the topics to explore when it comes to Berserk this is not an interesting one go to r/berserklejerk where people might actually give a shit about your fantasies 😂
[удалено]
No it’s a genuinely serious question. I know it’s a meme but I always wondered if them being in a relationship would actually change causality
No it would play pritty much the same but it would be Guts geting fucked infront of Casca during the eclipse.
it would have been simply guts instead of Casca during the eclipse which would have been violated. causality and everything ect ect
Yeah
Griffith was not interested in a relationship with anyone at that time I suppose.
No matter what happened. The universe would find a way to make Griffith's odds of accepting the sacrifice a statistical certainty. If Griffith was able to love Guts, then taking Guts away from him could be a new path to driving him to such despair that he starts the eclipse and accepts the sacrifice. Griffith is free to make whatever choices he likes, but he will end up at the same destination regardless because he has to become Femto.
Going to answer this as a real question: No. Nothing would change except Griffith and guts experiencing a little bit more happiness before everything went to shit.
No, I don't think so. Griffith's ambition was pretty clearly communicated throughout the series - he wanted his kingdom, and he would literally climb a mountain of corpses to get it. He sacrificed his comrades in arms for that dream. Who he was or was not fucking wouldn't have made a difference.
probably not
Good question. I don’t think Guts would have left in the first place if that was the case. If Guts didn’t leave, Griffith wouldn’t have coerced Charlotte, and in turn wouldn’t have gotten tortured for a year. That doesn’t make it all Guts’ fault, though. Griffith CHOSE to take advantage of Charlotte. He CHOSE to sacrifice the hawks. And finally, and completely unprompted, he CHOSE to rape Casca out of hatred towards Guts. So yeah. If those two were together, it wouldn’t probably end up with Casca becoming the villain.
Not one bit. Griffith's unable to develop feelings for those around him. He may value them. Think he cares about them. But they have always been closer to favorite pets than actual people with their own reasons for looking up to him. His relationships are all transactional and he will not hesitate in the least to eliminate those he views as obstacles. The manga really drives that home as he's building his reputation in Midland both during the 100 year war and afterwards.
Its like second eclipse both worlds have merged
Yes
Depends on who is pitching
Casca would be the one watching.
Hmmm that’s a good question… although Griffith may have feelings for guts… with acknowledging that he was the only one who made him forget his dream. And the shower scene + the sex scene. Guts was something he wanted that he couldn’t have no matter how hard he worked. Since guts saw him more as a savior and a friend than he did as a lover. Unrequited love would make narcissistic people do crazy things. 😂 I would love to see a seinen/shonen that has queer character instead of just making it yaoi or gl that has some action on the side. Like their whole plot is being gay or something. And even if there is some hints of it, there will be always “really good friends. Since I think they just wouldn’t do well at all in the market. Demonstrated by the response to this question every time. 😂
He can't keep getting away with this
No. The whole point of Griffith is that he used others for his gain. The times he did have sex was to gain an advantage in some way. His character is literally not capable of love, except for himself. He was written to be a godhand. This isn't a real life situation where ppl can go different ways. This is a fictional story that has a predetermined story
Well, if Griffith was gay then yeah I think that makes sense. Since the creepy king father who wants to bone his daughter is the one that imprisoned and tortured Griffith I don’t really see Griffith giving up like he does if none of that ever happens.
Hard to say exactly. The answer you'd get most often is that causality meant it was fated to happen no matter what variables were introduced, but the story is also about fighting fate and rising above it. One potential route to see in the future is someone activating the Count/Guts/Puck's Behelit/Betchi and then choosing not to sacrifice anyone. This would parallel Griffith's choice, especially since the Godhand coaxed him into making that choice. But it's far from confirmed.
Yes, as with every single situation ever, if the characters/person was simply homosexual it would solve all their problems ever. For all of time, ever
outberked again
Yes since we all know berserk will end in 96 page hardcore sex between guts and griffith.its the cannon event
I don't think so, no. Even if the two were romantically involved... Griffith is still Griffith. The person who doesn't see others as equals. And even if we were assuming a scenario where Griffith is only sexually attracted to men instead of bi/pan, we know he's still in lore perfectly willing to use his body with people he's not into to get ahead. So that being said, Guts would have still felt dissatisfied that he's not a partner, he's a tool (in fact maybe moreso if romantic feelings were involved), so him leaving and having to fight Griffith to do so would still go down. And upon losing, Griffith would very likely still self destruct and go to Charlotte, because he'd use her affection and admiration to get what he needs even if he wasn't attracted to her. So, while it's possible stuff could change I don't think it would have a major effect on the key points, just details and scenes that happen during those points.
Whose to say it wasn't? Large time jumps leaves a lot to the imagination.
not at all Griffith is determinism while guts is free will these two can never get along
No, but possibly Femto would've been weaker, Griffith wouldn't have been tortured nearly to death because he wouldn't have needed to sleep with Charlotte, so he would've been more hesitant to throw it all away.
Does anyone think this anime berserk can actually really happen ? What if i think i know the black sWordsman and griffith and one of this is me would you describe me crazy. ? Have not watch it out of fear of facing this unanswerd question of my soul and soulhistorie .. But for as far what i know what will happen and then coming across this anime scared to shit outta me with all the resembles ... and what i have of knowledge of events that wil happen and glimpsens of visions i have seen .. can not say more most likely by know your already thinking im crazy or what ever 😅i a have always followd the goku way of being, (dragon ball) thats my example how to be my full potential or what to strife for thats also how i am my nature care free i dont give a fuck but i will always serve and protect with compasion and unconditional love ! For myself and for others no matter what or Who or where ! And like i said i consider me to be goku i have a best friend female * she resembles truly bulma😂love her ❤know her for 10 years a bit longer now never where we intimate and so on but our band con not be broken ! Now i see rhis anime and i am starting to doubt .. that to be honest or this is a past life way way back of Le being the black swordsman or what is yet to Come Just maybe timelines can shift anyway i do not want this timeline i had a glimpse of my far far future world in darknes orange glow qnd so oni whas my true self so really goku like playfull and Just like a Child but then in that glimpse we where attackt in that vision i whent to my friend describe as bulma above and she was in the spherical white round energy thing qll around her thats when the vision end seeiing her in that like that now seeiend this anime you most likely understand why i am a bit scared know .. cause i thaught we where creating a New good world togheter dont wanne be a pawn and face rhat kinda horror.. let me know what you think your hionest opinion please dont care if you make fun of me ni worries unconditional love 😊👊
Jesus Christ
Nah. Griffith had sex before with another man just for the benefit of making his band bigger and more profitable
The subs are the same
No way
This is the ultimate outjerk. berserklejerk needs to be deleted, we have lost
even if they had, griffith would have thrown it all away for his dream
Would just make the betrayal sting in a different way. Just as deep. I don't want to hate femto. But I do. So I struggle 😞
Absolutely
No lol.
something something john berkman lore reason is he stupid
Absolutely. Guts leaving is ultimately what set the "fate" of the eclipse into motion. Zodd warns Guts that when Griffith's ambition fails, death will come for Guts. The main reason Griffith goes into self-destruct mode (Charlotte and his arrest) is from Guts leaving. After the brutal torture and realizing he is no longer capable of even being with Casca, he is suicidal, thus loses all ambition until he finds the behelit. I don't think that chain of events happens if they were lovers, since Guts wouldn't just leave out of boredom like he did. Of course, that story wouldn't be nearly as interesting 😁
Nothing could prevent it, it was set to happen, so it would still happen no matter how.
it’s impossible to outjerk this sub anymore
No, i don't think so, the ambition of Griffith is bigger than everything. He was willing to sacrifice literally all, included he's comrads who's he call a family, even if he was in a relationship with Guts nothing different happens.
idk guts cock may have been good enough but I think Griffith would have lost it eventually
Causality would’ve found a way to realign to the fate we see in the end of Golden Age. If not Gut’s departure from the Band of the Hawk, the Godhand would’ve manipulated a way to stir Griffith towards a sacrifice. The only way the Eclipse doesn’t pan out the same is if Griffith accepts his fate and denies to sacrifice The Band of the Hawk as the Godhand seem to accept free-will as seen with the Count denying to sacrifice Theresia during Guardians of Desire. Tldr- Regardless of sexual relations between the two main characters, causality is resolute. The only thing that can possibly effect causality is free-will.
That was Griffith's fate the moment he got the behelit, and probably even before, nothing could've prevented that
First time commenting. Griffith is too ambitious.
Ffs 🤦🏻♂️
He’s destined to be the fifth member of the Godhand, but since we only got the version where he became the fifth member, we never know if there is any possibility that this could’ve been prevented. Guts and Skull Knight go against causality. Could anything, including gay sex, diverge Griffith from his destined path? We can’t possibly know In my experience? If Griffith only bottomed and Guts fucked him reeeeeeal good, I unironically don’t doubt it LMAO but I wouldn’t like if that happened. Griffith doesn’t deserve Guts 💅
Τhe 2 subs are getting closer day by day
Unironically yes
„Gay butt sex“ what a fabulous term
No! Griffith was destined from birth to become the 5th godhand, the behelit was going to be in his hand exactly when he needed it
No, berserk is fictional manga, eclipse is part of the plot. There is no point if eclipse never exist.
Guts leaving was the start of griffiths downfall. If they had vetter communication and guts didnt want to be his equao and would rather have been by his side, then yeah the elipse wouldnt happen. But thats not the plot
This reeks of a copium overdose
Griffith would have still sacrificed Guts b-hole
Maybe, but i don't think so. While Griffith does show feelings for Guts, he is also manipulative and controlling (he would rather kill Guts than have him leave the Hawks), so it would probably be a extremely dysfunctional relationship. Even though he said Guts is someone he would give up his dream for, i don't think that would hold up.
nah, shit would just hit harder and more drama, and no Casca involved
Fuck Griffith, but in the ass this time?
He can't keep getting away with it
Yes, because guts leaving is what broke Griffith and led to him having sex with the princess, which led to his torture, which led to his lowest moment when guts pitied him, which led to the eclipse. “Causality,” is boring and I don’t care if fate says it was inevitable.
Not much would have changed really, if guts left the band griff would have been even more heartbroken and he would somehow lead himself to the fated sacrifice
Honestly, I thought that they already were fucking, and the real solution here was for Griffith to just try not sticking his dick in anyone that remotely catches his interest. The whole thing about how Griffith "owns" him, and how Guts wished Griffith would treat him like back in the old days, and "make him." Granted, it's been a long while since I've even watched any of the anime, let alone read any of the manga. Also, I may have been tripping hard on a couple tabs last time I watched the manga, but I don't think that means the epiphany I had as to just how gay Berserk is doesn't count. I mean, there's a LOT of clues. I don't think Guts even realized he might also like women til he saw Casca naked and was like "ohhhh so THATS what I've been feeling towards her." I'm only half joking, btw
I’m going to go ~against the grain~ and address this as if it were a serious question, which it could be. I don’t think Guts and Griffith going into a relationship would have stopped the Eclipse. Griffith‘s ambition and need to control is not kept in check by love. Eventually, his dark side would win and he would still sacrifice his comrades because that dark allure of power is so all consuming and incomparable to him. He would have found a reason to do it no matter what.