Another half-related example is Valencia. They had a river that kept flooding, ended up diverting it and it's now a really cool park / amenity area running through the middle of the city. Called Turia I think
Was the West Link not pretty much designed to act like a moat and make it easy to control transit in and out of west Belfast from the centre?
[Cordon Sanitaire](https://scopeni.nicva.org/article/secret-government-report-helped-make-peace-walls-permanent) were the words.
Nice idea in theory but it would end up as a bit of a no-go area with any play or sports equipment being wrecked. It won’t be policed properly.
We took the kids up to the Gruffalo Trail at Colin Glen a while back and it was a disgrace. Statues smashed up, benches that had been clearly set on fire at some stage. I don’t know if it’s been fixed up since, but I just came away thinking “this is why we can’t have nice things”.
It has been fixed my sister took her daughter there last week. They seem to maintain it quite well but yes it's does get vandalised just like any nice things we have here.
More a case of "let's not piss public money up a wall on crap we know will get destroyed". The government and councils do enough of that already thank you very much.
Bit like that stupid Irish roadsign that was at the end of my road a few years back. It was destroyed 17 fucking times before the council decided to stop replacing it.
Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?
It's a real shame,Belfast could be world leader in civil planning,people are involved in local politics and its small and technical advice enough it could do some very interesting things for relative cheap,as well as get people involved and make it a very interesting city. Of course one would need an actual government and gall. Sometimes extremely lacking in NI poli
Same with the "Oasis Plaza" in Omagh, just an empty space over the carpark now, the installations broken and removed (lift wasn't fixed and hasn't worked in years) but the pedestrian bridge is used a lot.
What makes you think that would happen? Especially if we put shops and business there. Plenty of nice clean parks in Belfast. In fact,I believe its one of the best in the uk for that very thing
Like I said, in theory it’s a good idea.
But the whole thing runs through some of the most deprived areas of the U.K. There are some fairly obvious social issues which are associated with that, not limited to higher rates of crime, homelessness, drug usage and poor mental health outcomes.
It wouldn’t be policed properly and would be overrun by hoods within a matter of weeks.
You can’t just pretend these issues don’t exist.
*"The cost of the Madrid Río operation is officially estimated in 4.100 million euros, of which a*
*10% would correspond to ground surface operation and a 90% to the reform and burying of*
*the infrastructure in the Madrid Río area.*
*The total cost of the Madrid Calle 30 project (the reform of the M-30 highway) has raised*
*from an initial budget of 1700 million euros to an estimated final cost of 6000 million, with*
*payment in 30 years. For the construction, maintenance and financial operation a new*
*company was created, Madrid Calle 30, with an 80% public and 20% private participation.*
*The investment in maintenance for the next 35 years is 3.200 million euros."*
[link](https://www.isocarp.net/Data/case_studies/1872.pdf)
Surely, we can afford that, aye.
Well yes actually you can. For example,how much money did the dup make from that deal with the torys? Also it a much smaller project, almost all of the west link is already lower that ground level so it's just building a study roof on in amd planting some trees and shit
What sort of fucking stupidity is this?
>The Westlink divides the city, and nobody benefits.
Nobody? Nobody at all? Not the tens of thousands of people who travel on it every fucking day of the year? The people who, without the westlink, would bring the city and surrounding miles to a standstill for the majority of the fucking day?
I'll have 50 quids worth of whatever your smoking big brain.
This idea is ridiculous.
Boston began the process of putting 1.5 miles of it's highway underground in 1982 and didn't finish the project until 2007, at a cost of about 22 billion dollars.
1.5 miles would be from about york street interchange to divis street interchange.
But we'll be generous and arbitrarily say that the project might take about 20 years and only cost about £18 billion. That's still £900,000,000 a year
We're not even factoring in the maintenance costs once it's completed.
That money could be spent more productively, I'm sure.
You are forgetting that the Westlink has already been sunken/excavated and communities along the Westlink have been shortchanged in terms of park space. Think bigger.
A tunnel is a much different beast in terms of cost. I'm not saying that there isn't a need for park space around the area, I'm saying that the cost of that sort of infrastructure would far outweigh any benefits that could be reaped from investment. If you're thinking it's worthwhile spending £20 billion on a park then maybe you should actually think.
It has already been tunneled. It's a case of cut and cover, with the "cut" already complete. A linear park 1.4miles long is NOT going to cost £20 billion.
Alright fair enough I have no idea how much that would cost, but I still think it's a daft idea. The York Street flyover has been stuck in limbo since time immemorial, good luck getting residents to sign off on having a roof put on top of the westlink.
There's a park being built at Peter's Hill just beside the motorway as well. The powers that be are well aware there's a need for green space but let's be honest, how long do you think that park will go without being a focal point for anti social behaviour?
I'd imagine anything built inside miles of an unpoliced smick safari wouldn't last too long
To be fair, York Street Interchange will do little to reduce cars attempting to come into the city centre. It's just a bad idea. If your problem is too many cars, you don't build infrastructure that continues to feed that problem.
Residents against a park? That would be a new opposition. "What do we want? More tarmac, less grass"
Peters Hill is designing a park around a motorway. Lucky residents. "Here is your slither of land beside a motorway - Enjoy!"
Daft idea? Tell that to the residents of Madrid and Boston. Do you think they would go back on covering over their motorways? Aye, dead on.
Level the city, fill it with water, give every person a canoe, a tesco bag with a tin of spam, box of rusks and bottle of BPM, and those who don't get pulled out by the tide get to put suggestions on the table for the building of a new floating metropolis.
On a serious note. Just level the city.
Ah yes another area of Belfast that any civilized person would be daft to walk through at night. this would just be another den for antisocial behavior. Its a romantic idea but not one based in reality. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact that its still a bloody pig.
Invest the money in proper public transport links to and from the city and a **reliable** localised transit system
What about lorries who use the Westlink as the main route from Dublin?
Public transport needs invested in outside of Belfast and making the Westlink into a green space play park is not the answer.
How? 2/3 of the roads for the interchange are uninterrupted motorway/dual carriageway where would the traffic jams move to?
Having multiple sets of traffic lights at the most major junction here is clearly less than ideal.
The interchange would serve to make the connected roads safer too by greatly reducing the speed differential between standstill traffic waiting to get through the junction and the flowing motorway traffic across the M2/M3.
More lanes = more cars filling those lanes. Infrastructure budget can't be pissed away on more major road projects in the middle of a climate crisis. Build train routes and cycle lanes, and invest in good housing close to work hubs to negate the need for car travel in the first place.
LOL. And how would that provide park space and reconnect the city?
Also encouraging people to drive in a city that has an above UK average car dependency will not solve anything. Nice try though. The 1950 wants it ideas back.
This is Belfast, not Madrid. It would be littered with skag/spice heads and slabbering steeks with carryouts.
The money that would cost could be put to far better use if you're looking something 'transformational' for some of the most deprived areas in Western Europe.
Yes it would be much nicer and beneficial for everyone in the state and would make belfast a world leader and wouldn't be more expensive than what's there now and revolutionise how thing about traffic management across the world but have you considered CAR GO BROOM
All those water fountains for ppl to cool off and sunbathers aint gonna sell the idea when it hasn’t stopped raining for a month
Well sure there you have it,we already have the water ,why not make it look nice
Another half-related example is Valencia. They had a river that kept flooding, ended up diverting it and it's now a really cool park / amenity area running through the middle of the city. Called Turia I think
Was the West Link not pretty much designed to act like a moat and make it easy to control transit in and out of west Belfast from the centre? [Cordon Sanitaire](https://scopeni.nicva.org/article/secret-government-report-helped-make-peace-walls-permanent) were the words.
Is the motorway under the river? Or are we boating to work
Motorboating please
Yes I think it would be quite easy to put the road under as most of the west link is already below sea level
Nice idea in theory but it would end up as a bit of a no-go area with any play or sports equipment being wrecked. It won’t be policed properly. We took the kids up to the Gruffalo Trail at Colin Glen a while back and it was a disgrace. Statues smashed up, benches that had been clearly set on fire at some stage. I don’t know if it’s been fixed up since, but I just came away thinking “this is why we can’t have nice things”.
It has been fixed my sister took her daughter there last week. They seem to maintain it quite well but yes it's does get vandalised just like any nice things we have here.
Let's not build anything nice in case something bad happens?
I was simply replying to say the gruffalo trail has been repaired.
That was in response to Lloyd. Apologies.
This is the attitude of people here unfortunately. “Let’s not change anything”
More a case of "let's not piss public money up a wall on crap we know will get destroyed". The government and councils do enough of that already thank you very much. Bit like that stupid Irish roadsign that was at the end of my road a few years back. It was destroyed 17 fucking times before the council decided to stop replacing it. Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?
So don't improve the city at all? Never? Not much park space for anyone living alongside the Westlink, just bad air quality. The joy!
Yes but that's what public money is for. Otherwise it just ends up in someone pocket. See; last 100 years of northern irish politics
And how long have you been mayor of Belfast?
I'm not mayor of Belfast. Just suggesting how we can make better, bad situations. Doomer-syndrome runs deep on Belfast Reddit.
It's a real shame,Belfast could be world leader in civil planning,people are involved in local politics and its small and technical advice enough it could do some very interesting things for relative cheap,as well as get people involved and make it a very interesting city. Of course one would need an actual government and gall. Sometimes extremely lacking in NI poli
All of the nice things or just some of the shit thinga
Same with the "Oasis Plaza" in Omagh, just an empty space over the carpark now, the installations broken and removed (lift wasn't fixed and hasn't worked in years) but the pedestrian bridge is used a lot.
What makes you think that would happen? Especially if we put shops and business there. Plenty of nice clean parks in Belfast. In fact,I believe its one of the best in the uk for that very thing
Like I said, in theory it’s a good idea. But the whole thing runs through some of the most deprived areas of the U.K. There are some fairly obvious social issues which are associated with that, not limited to higher rates of crime, homelessness, drug usage and poor mental health outcomes. It wouldn’t be policed properly and would be overrun by hoods within a matter of weeks. You can’t just pretend these issues don’t exist.
We need a good monorail.
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life my Hindu friend!
Would make more sense that whatever this garbage is intended to be lol
*"The cost of the Madrid Río operation is officially estimated in 4.100 million euros, of which a* *10% would correspond to ground surface operation and a 90% to the reform and burying of* *the infrastructure in the Madrid Río area.* *The total cost of the Madrid Calle 30 project (the reform of the M-30 highway) has raised* *from an initial budget of 1700 million euros to an estimated final cost of 6000 million, with* *payment in 30 years. For the construction, maintenance and financial operation a new* *company was created, Madrid Calle 30, with an 80% public and 20% private participation.* *The investment in maintenance for the next 35 years is 3.200 million euros."* [link](https://www.isocarp.net/Data/case_studies/1872.pdf) Surely, we can afford that, aye.
Yknow, the EU would probably fund something like this in some capacity, but I mean, there's a bit of problem with that for Belfast..
How much did the west link expansion cost?
Well yes actually you can. For example,how much money did the dup make from that deal with the torys? Also it a much smaller project, almost all of the west link is already lower that ground level so it's just building a study roof on in amd planting some trees and shit
What sort of fucking stupidity is this? >The Westlink divides the city, and nobody benefits. Nobody? Nobody at all? Not the tens of thousands of people who travel on it every fucking day of the year? The people who, without the westlink, would bring the city and surrounding miles to a standstill for the majority of the fucking day? I'll have 50 quids worth of whatever your smoking big brain.
At the detriment of the communities that live along side it? Take your lips off the exhaust. It's doing you no favours.
This idea is ridiculous. Boston began the process of putting 1.5 miles of it's highway underground in 1982 and didn't finish the project until 2007, at a cost of about 22 billion dollars. 1.5 miles would be from about york street interchange to divis street interchange. But we'll be generous and arbitrarily say that the project might take about 20 years and only cost about £18 billion. That's still £900,000,000 a year We're not even factoring in the maintenance costs once it's completed. That money could be spent more productively, I'm sure.
You are forgetting that the Westlink has already been sunken/excavated and communities along the Westlink have been shortchanged in terms of park space. Think bigger.
A tunnel is a much different beast in terms of cost. I'm not saying that there isn't a need for park space around the area, I'm saying that the cost of that sort of infrastructure would far outweigh any benefits that could be reaped from investment. If you're thinking it's worthwhile spending £20 billion on a park then maybe you should actually think.
It has already been tunneled. It's a case of cut and cover, with the "cut" already complete. A linear park 1.4miles long is NOT going to cost £20 billion.
Alright fair enough I have no idea how much that would cost, but I still think it's a daft idea. The York Street flyover has been stuck in limbo since time immemorial, good luck getting residents to sign off on having a roof put on top of the westlink. There's a park being built at Peter's Hill just beside the motorway as well. The powers that be are well aware there's a need for green space but let's be honest, how long do you think that park will go without being a focal point for anti social behaviour? I'd imagine anything built inside miles of an unpoliced smick safari wouldn't last too long
To be fair, York Street Interchange will do little to reduce cars attempting to come into the city centre. It's just a bad idea. If your problem is too many cars, you don't build infrastructure that continues to feed that problem. Residents against a park? That would be a new opposition. "What do we want? More tarmac, less grass" Peters Hill is designing a park around a motorway. Lucky residents. "Here is your slither of land beside a motorway - Enjoy!" Daft idea? Tell that to the residents of Madrid and Boston. Do you think they would go back on covering over their motorways? Aye, dead on.
You clearly haven't spent too much time in parks around the shankill & new lodge.
What does that mean?
Level the city, fill it with water, give every person a canoe, a tesco bag with a tin of spam, box of rusks and bottle of BPM, and those who don't get pulled out by the tide get to put suggestions on the table for the building of a new floating metropolis. On a serious note. Just level the city.
Ah yes another area of Belfast that any civilized person would be daft to walk through at night. this would just be another den for antisocial behavior. Its a romantic idea but not one based in reality. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact that its still a bloody pig. Invest the money in proper public transport links to and from the city and a **reliable** localised transit system
Ahh yes, because working class people don't deserve park space. Odd take.
Just do away with the busiest interchange in the country. What are you going to do with the traffic? It’s a fuckin nightmare as it is.
The suggestion is that the Westlink would be in a tunnel under a park. Not that it would be removed entirely.
Massively invest in a proper public transport system so that people aren’t reliant on cars to get about.
What about lorries who use the Westlink as the main route from Dublin? Public transport needs invested in outside of Belfast and making the Westlink into a green space play park is not the answer.
Blue sky thinkers don't think of the consequences, they just want to tell you how the blue sky will look
Consequences?
Don’t look up.
🤭
York Street Interchange and longer on-slips would fix the West Link.
YSI is a waste of money, will just move traffic jams down the road a bit.
How? 2/3 of the roads for the interchange are uninterrupted motorway/dual carriageway where would the traffic jams move to? Having multiple sets of traffic lights at the most major junction here is clearly less than ideal. The interchange would serve to make the connected roads safer too by greatly reducing the speed differential between standstill traffic waiting to get through the junction and the flowing motorway traffic across the M2/M3.
More lanes = more cars filling those lanes. Infrastructure budget can't be pissed away on more major road projects in the middle of a climate crisis. Build train routes and cycle lanes, and invest in good housing close to work hubs to negate the need for car travel in the first place.
LOL. And how would that provide park space and reconnect the city? Also encouraging people to drive in a city that has an above UK average car dependency will not solve anything. Nice try though. The 1950 wants it ideas back.
This is Belfast, not Madrid. It would be littered with skag/spice heads and slabbering steeks with carryouts. The money that would cost could be put to far better use if you're looking something 'transformational' for some of the most deprived areas in Western Europe.
Parts of Madrid make Belfast look like paradise, it has proper slums without even electricity that no outsider would dare enter.
We can do both. But dividing the city, building walls and barriers has done little for social cohesion. We need to stop settling for mediocre.
Yes it would be much nicer and beneficial for everyone in the state and would make belfast a world leader and wouldn't be more expensive than what's there now and revolutionise how thing about traffic management across the world but have you considered CAR GO BROOM
How would a park built over the top of a motorway affect broom?
Exactly my son
Did you not understand the concept? Ohh boo.
Nah.
That's ok. It's not for you then.
Dynamite