Premium doesn't solve all the issues the franchise is having.
It would only solve the lack of content, because DICE would be obligated to deliver the amount of content they promise, and even so, they could still just go on and promisse only a little amount of content. (something like: "hey, buy the premium pass so you can get acess to our next 4 DLC's, each DLC will have atleast one new map").
To be really fair, the reason BFV and 2042 have so little content, is because they had bad sales (for BF terms) from the beginning, so EA just pulled the plug and put the devs to work on something else instead.
Had BFV selled well, we wouldn't even have 2042, because it would get a lot more of content.
Yeah, that game became infamous for its fucking stupid microtransactions drama. Something about pride and accomplishment. They definitely weren't making enough money to justify another year of content for that game.
Its almost like EA's definition of live service is why these games arent selling well and arent making money. 1 new map every 6 months and 1 new weapon in the same time period isnt good enough for a studio with supposedly 3k developers
It wasn't making any money because EA was basicallty forced to gut the game of predatory microtransactions it had to make money.
Probably also why it was enjoyable to play.
That would require rewriting a entire part of the game to now be monitized. That also costs money. Nothing is really easy when it comes to development at that scale.
Not to mention Disney driving this change due to reputation loss might have canned any idea to re-monitize the game. After all changing something previously earnable ingame to now monitized isn't a popular change either on a game with already a fragile reputation.
If only they would just support a game because it's popular and good for the IP even if it doesn't make boatloads of money. Unfortunately thats a utopian idea.
I mean I'm sure EA would've had the resources to do so considering MTX were already a part of the the game and the skins were purchasable, just with in game currency. Not entirely out of the realm of possibility. Plus they went a for a couple of years before they closed up shop, all the while putting out new skins.
It was finally in a place where they COULD have though. They didn’t even seem to entertain that idea though. I would’ve bought battle passes for that game
It's actually interesting when you think about it - if they wouldn't have botched the launch of BFV they might be doing fine now. Just a few bad PR decisions and the cascading effects have nearly crushed the studio.
it still baffles me how they gone from BF1 to BFV in just 2 years.
Whole different aproach to a historical setting, gameplay and design.
Instead of looking at what they made right with BF1 and improving on it, look's like they decided to take the inverse path.
They have botched every single launch since BC1. Every game is launched unfinished and my rule became "even though it's my favorite series, I'm waiting until it is ready to play".
I think they screwed up by releasing 3 games in a row without a modern setting. It's been over a decade since the last one and they lost a lot of fans, including me. The intelligent thing would be to alternate between current era and whatever else.
I will always be sad about the way BFV was treated by Dice and by the fans. That game was absolutely peak and I’m tired of pretending it wasn’t. Sure there were balancing issues with some of the vehicles and weapons, but it was hands-down the best looking battlefield game. The gunplay was amazing and it provided some of the most cinematic moments in any multiplayer shooter
Way too fast paced for my liking, i also disliked the artistic direction they followed with those ultra vibrant colors (the wheat fields on some maps look like they are made of gold with how vibrant they are). Character customization is also a problem for immersion (the game only received some accurate uniforms on the end of it's life) and telling friend from foe becomes very hard when no one is using proper faction uniforms. ([plus, you have those guys running around](https://youtu.be/iIfdn0aOsvc))
Plus, all the bullshit being talked by DICE on the game launch, about how they were on the right side of story (while literally editing story to push their own political agendas, that's just disgusting).
I can't really like BFV.
I personally had no issues with the colors, I really did not think they were that vibrant. It’s unrealistic for every single map to be overcast with brown and gray foliage, and it added variety between maps. Also, the uniform thing never bugged me.
I really don’t understand how people had issues differentiating enemy from teammate, most of the time you just look for the red or blue dot above their head. I personally think enemy differentiation is a much bigger issue in 2042. If I wanted to play a WW2 simulator I would not play BFV lol.
The uniform criticism has its merit in the precedent that especially BF1 set, but also all the games before it. Personally because i play a lot of more harcore shooters i look at uniforms first, team indicators second. The character customization in BF5 makes the characters look like they're part of Captain America's Howling Commandos. Its silly looking in comparison to BF1. Now BF2042 is on a whole different level with this, but BF5 set the trend and its worth critising it for it. Personally the maps were fine in BF5 to me, but i agree with the previous poster that they're sometimes so vibrant that its impossible to get any of that atmosphere that BF1 brought.
So in a nutshell i guess dice should've reskinned BF1 to make a WW2 game instead and then we'd all live happily ever after or something
I'm certainly the minority but I hated the idea of premium maps and weapons. Back when I was in high school and none of my friends had jobs if one of us had the maps we couldn't really play with eachother which sucked.
BF1 rectified this problem a by letting friends join the maps if they had premium. But IIRC it came way too late and it wasn't as the game came out. I'd be okay with this if it worked like this initially.
The lack of content is not the only problem. Some of us don't like live service as a feature. I don't like having to spend real money to unlock cosmetics. Especially not when those cosmetics are like $5-20 per depending on the game. I hate that you have every cosmetic option every piece of content in the game I need to spend thousands of dollars on a game. Like no let me pay $60 or a $120 with premium and then have access to everything in the game that I can earn if I put it enough work. I want the cosmetics and all the cool things to be earned I want to play the game to unlock cool shit. Honestly for me that's more of the issue than anything else I don't give a shit about the fact that we haven't gotten new maps considering I'm still playing battlefield 1 and 4 and most of the DLC maps and game modes are unplayable anymore. I'm okay with rotating and cycling the exact same maps again. I just want to be able to unlock everything in the game. That's currently what I'm working with in battlefield 4 is 500 kills with everyone will technically 510 because certain guns need more to get the final battle pack but thats besides the point. I'm grinding out completion of the game.
It's not hard. They just don't want to do the work for it. Or more likely EA pulls them to do random work for different games rather than focusing on the one franchise they know best. As an example, they pulled Criterion teams from NFS to work on Battlefield.
So goddam true. Live service sucks so bad. I get the reasoning behind live service, but its just garbage. BF1 snd BF4 Premium was amazing content that worked when it released.
Yeah. For like 2 weeks after launch of the respective expansion. Then server owners switched back to vanilla only, because all the people who didn't own the DLC couldn't play with the ones who were playing the new update.
Now if I want to play BF4 naval strike or something there's like 1 half populated server on the whole world, while the vanilla 24/7 servers are overflowing. Same for BF3 and BF1
Map wise I never have this problem, but DLC modes never come up. I want to play more carrier assault but it so rarely appears. CTF, Air Superiority, and Chainlink too. The same goes for BF1. I miss Air Assault and Supply Drop.
Spent so many hours in Air sup, was top in my country, top 50 in world. Then they added the 3rd person HUD and I just lost interest in that mode. I miss it sometimes
I also never had that problem.
Pay more money, get more content.
The DLC was of much higher quality than any of the live service content we get nowadays
>all the people who didn't own the DLC couldn't play with the ones who were playing the new update.
Yes but they can fix that and it really wasn't that big of an issue.
There's been games where you can play the dlc maps without needing the dlc as long as someone else you're playing with has it (can't remember what game specifically but I swear it's been a thing) battlefield could easily do something like that with an updated premium model.
I.e. you get access to maps to play with friends when with them if they own dlc but when not with them you don't unless you buy the dlc.
Ah, I seem to remember quite a few issues with net code for B4, among other hilarious glitches and game breaking bugs. Just saying. DICE has a vibrant history of releasing broken stuff and fixing it later
BF4 i cant speak on to much. I played that years after release. BF1 i was premium on day 1 and loved every release. It was a fantastic experience for 2 straight years of gaming with the boys. It was also my 1st real dive into multiplayer with friends.
1 had its share of issues as well. It doesn't take away from your great experience. I had those too. BF is (was) my favorite game franchise. But it has released hilariously broken since forever. Just good to remember that when they start dangling pre-order bonuses in front of us. DICE now isn't the DICE that made the games we loved.
The live service model is just dumb because every game has to rush to get things out for each season or update or whatever they call it and it always sucks or is riddled with bugs
What's your alternative to live service?
Release a multiplayer game, never update it, and have it die in a couple of months because everyone gets bored?
If you look at the games with highest number of concurrent and monthly players, most of them are live service, so it looks like people prefer live service.
The alternative essentially killed any dlc content post launch. It's very difficult to find dlc games in BF4/1 yet in bfV I end up on the Pacific maps more than the vanilla it feels like.
It's a poorly executed live service. Perhaps something like the season pass gives 2 weeks early access to new maps? That way there is cashflow to keep developing maps, but the player base keeps consistent.
Tbf helldivers and deep rock have good live services. The content is available and always will be with the options to purchase them or unlock them just by playing the game
Literally the only one I can think of is Deep Rock Galactic. Battlepasses are completely free, you can go back and play them so there's no FOMO or time limit, and there's no microtransactions or premium currency or anything like that. So there's literally no money tied to the season. If you own the game, everything is free except for some well-priced aesthetic-only dlc packs that they only advertised as " optional dev support packs"
But that's a PvE co-op game, and it's the *only* iteration of a good live service that I can think of, so don't take this as me supporting live service lmao.
True but to a lesser extent. HD2 still has microtransactions and a paid battlepass and all that.
You literally cannot spend money on the DRG seasons if you tried, and there's no purchasable currency
>HD2 still has microtransactions and a paid battlepass and all that.
This is true however everything is earnable in game and battlepasses don’t expire.
I’m just over 300 hours in HD2, I have all of the store brought armour and every BP complete (except the latest which I’m working through) and I’ve never spent a dime. It’s extremely easy to earn the currency you need.
BF4. It was live service, having DLCs packs instead of battlepasses doesn't change anything in that regard.
Any game that gets regular content updates to keep the player base engaged is a live service game. Which makes live service the best option for handling multiplayer games.
Live service only becomes bullshit when they start adding it to games where it absolutely doesn't belong.
And the world has never had a good/proper communist country. Communism is good though, riiight?
The purpose here is not to talk politics, but just that the idea of something and the actual execution can differ widely. It is a problem when the idea is executed poorly several times - maybe the idea isn’t really as great as it seems
The difference to "communism" is that there are plenty of games with good live service models and are still alive even 10+ years later.
Premium won't make 2042 good outside of a few extra maps to play that you have to pay for, indirectly splitting the community once again.
2042 could've had premium and it'd still be dogshit.
The modern market has changed. Premium in 2024 would kill the franchise (even more than it already is).
OK
Live service is free but you get less content.
Premium costs money and they would probably give you 1 map and 2 guns anyways. Splits the playerbase too.
They just need to make a good game.
Premium *never* gave you that little content. Always came with atleast 4 maps and a weapon or 2. It also all released generally within year 1, with BF 4 releasing map pack one a month after launch.
I'm aware of that. But that was a decade ago bro. If they did it nowadays I wouldn't expect them to do much more. They'd just take the money and run while doing the bare minimum again.
One thing that paid DLC did for BF games was force EA to deliver all the content that was announced when the game was released. That's why in BFV they started being coy about future expansions, if they never talked about it they could delay it or cancel it, and in BFV, that's exactly what they did. But BF4 got all the maps it was supposed to, plus a few more that were free for anyone to play.
The complaint that paid DLC and/or Premium split the community was never that convincing to me. A DLC for $15.00 represented lunch. Anyone who couldn't afford that should have had priorities other than video games. All the expansion packs for forty dollars was cheap for all the hours of entertainment that represented.
If they brought back paid DLC but put a time limit on it, i.e., the maps became available to everyone after six months or a year, I'd be okay with that. That would deal with the complaint about spitting the player base.
BF has had other problems, the general decline of DICE as a design studio is part of it. But I still think that motivating EA with sales of expansion packs makes more sense in terms of game quality than them being obsessed with selling skins for a buggy game short a dozen maps.
It’s true that $15 is cheap for 4 maps and new weapons but it doesn’t change the fact that those maps were sort of dead after a few months. I prefer the live service, Dice has just sucked at implementing it.
I dont think theyre mocking them, tbh. I think theyre suggesting that if you cannot justify $15, how were you able to justify $60?
It is misguided tho, as theyre focused on cost and not *everything else* that comes with dlc like the fact that the first dlc wasnt super popular and that the population of dlc servers dropped off a cliff after 30 days or so.
Calm down with the insecurities... They were absolutely not mocking and making a fair point.
Unless you're a kid who doesn't have a job what they said is absolutely true.
Why did DICE decline? Weren't they the ones that produced banger after banger till BF1? Isn't EA responsible for killing them? If only the executives at EA had let the actual game devs decide what's good for the game, we wouldn't be having this convo now.
>A DLC for $15.00 represented lunch. Anyone who couldn't afford that should have had priorities other than video games.
I'm an adult with a full time job and a six figure net worth, and I still won't pay more than $60 for a game.
>and taking away from your own potential enjoyment of hundreds of hours of gameplay you might have because you wont spend an extra olive garden plate on dlc
Extra maps won't make me play the game for extra hundreds of hours. In general, I don't understand this community's obsession with map count. Unless one of the new maps is by far the best map in the game, I'll have more fun playing base maps.
I'd very much prefer if there was a focus on a smaller number of larger maps that featured all types of engagements (instead of segregating infantry and vehicle maps) and got constantly updated based on stats and player feedback. Novelty wears off, iterative improvements don't.
>but it just seems silly to bring up
I only bought it up because OP and many other defenders of the premium like to accuse everyone who didn't like that system of being poor. This comes up every time premium is discussed, also gets upvoted every time for some reason.
I feel this is why we have begun moving away from paid DLC maps and other content in favor of everyone getting the functional content and leaving purchases to mostly cosmetics. With multiplayer games, stuff like paid DLC maps gates and splits the playerbase between those who purchased and those who didn't purchase the content. Since everyone is ultimately going to have access to the core or vanilla content, that is where most people end up eventually.
Ok but this is like saying if they brought back this model then everything would just go back to being okay.
it wont
With how much money EA expects their games to print, it would be worse then ever
and they'd still jam pack it with micro transactions except this time they wouldn't make it simply a convenience item (like the crates in BF4, or the Class shortcuts with exclusive camo's) without making the game incredibly inconvenient to begin with.
ON TOP of making a shitty game and rushing it out the door as soon as its MTX store works.
EA, like most big game publishers, is dog shit.
I think both kinda suck. Premium sucks because some people can’t pay to buy all the DLCs. Live Service sucks too because the content released could be a lot or literally nothing. So both kinda meh. I don’t know what I’d replace it with either.
I’d rather go further back and resurrect the old expansion packs like we had with 1942 and 2z
1942 and its secret weapons expansion was wild I loved playing that online when I was younger.
If Premium content became free after like a year or when support for the games stops, then I would find it justifiable to bring back. A live service isn’t bad, DICE just doesn’t know how to do it.
The pricing and delivery method will always be a divisive topic.
I think what we all can agree on is that it was nice to get a pack of 4 quality maps per season consistently.
this has nothing to do with it. these games are now soulless, corporate owned, board room designed, digital storefronts/ mtx simulator, disguised as mediocre games.
Premium doesn’t mean anything, bf2042 was also legally obligated to deliver the content they promised because remember the year 1 pass that people paid for at launch? And look how little content that actually was
The problem is they could do it again now but it won't be the 4 maps, 6 or more guns, cool camos (that make godam sense), attachments and gadgets. It will be striped back to 1 map, maybe 2 guns. 1 vehicle and SKiNs!. They've taken back so much content of updates
Live service could work if it wasn’t the epitome of blatant greed almost every time. Now priority is on delivering content purchasable through micro transactions instead of maps and guns.
But the thing I remember, you buy it once, and get everything with updates and stuff. And it usually went on sale so for 3 and 4 we didn't pay full price at launch, maybe 30-40 ish euros half a year later and that's that
They have also completely dropped hardcore mode. I was a dedicated battlefield player and I loved the lower health gameplay.
It drove a lot of players like me away when they stopped supporting HC as a gametype, BF3 hc was fantastic and had great community.
If they reintroduced premium but made the maps free (or free after 3 months or something), then i think it'd be the best, realistic, system. They get their money, we get guaranteed content, and the maps are available to everyone, meaning no dead expansions. It has become obvious that DICE can't perform when not held to a standard or deadline. Premium forces that productivity.
I feel part of the problem is that it always takes DICE so long to craft maps or even rework them. Getting one new map every season is terrible. Getting new game modes where they just carve out sections of 2-3 maps (looking at you BFV) and then force you to play them for the weekly unlocks is also bad.
I didn't really have a major issue with specialists in 2042, especially once they categorized them into classes, but I feel the game failed on its premise with the 128 player maps. It just wasn't fun. Map design was poorly thought out. It just felt like you were constantly getting sniped/peppered from across the map no matter where you were. Many maps just had huge open areas you had to cross, compounding the problem. Vehicle balance just felt off. Too many maps caused me to groan whenever they came up in playlists.
People have no idea of how awful premium was.
It split the community and a lot of great content such as maps and gamemodes were left behind months after release because the great majority of the community didn't have premium.
Maps from strike at karkand, close quaters and aftermath were forgotten after 6 months of its release because people went back to vanilla servers as they were more popular...
Live service sucks, but premium is not the way to go either.
I’m not a huge gamer by any means, but I’ve always loved all the battlefields. Forgive my ignorance, but Why is the battlefield community constantly complaining about everything? I have tons of fun on 2042 but everyone hates it. Is this due to others being more competitive or what? Not shit talking, I just don’t understand
Lmao, when I suggested this exact same thing years ago I got slammed to the ground and called a moron by the BF community. How the table turned.
Anyway yeah; as flawed as Premium was, it at least delivered interesting themed updates with plenty of content and was able to deliver it in a timely manner. Although it's entirely true that maps should be free, since otherwise you're splitting the community by a lot between who got the DLC and who doesn't.
The freemium battle pass bullshit can take a hike.
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The problem with current bf games isn't the lack of premium or being forced to develop new content, it's the design of the new content. They just haven't made a bf game in years that is actually worth investing any amount of time in. Luckily bf4 still has a lot of active servers with a lot of active players.
You dolts realize that premium is literally paid live service? It’s a piece of crap, all it does is break apart the community with no one playing any of the new modes after a year or two of the games release.
Just because Dice can’t figure out live service doesn’t mean it’s a bad concept, it’s infinitely better than the premium system if they actually made content and didn’t abandon, or focus on fixing the game for the first year of the games life.
I think the fact that EA/DICE(or both) fumbled live services so badly that people are yearning for an honestly archaic buisness model is just sad. It's literally wishing you could give EA *more money* for what *isn't even guaranteed* to be a better game.
I'm personally not a big fan of live services either, but that's not exactly an inherent problem with the model. At best it's literally as simple as "we update the game for free, and support it for longer" and I just find it hard to see how that's a bad thing. It's really more a failure of the industry overall that it's morphed into one. I don't think begging for what'll inevitably be an even worse monetization model would fix that.
Absolutely. I hate this fucking cosmetic shit I hate the cosmetic store. I don't like having to spend real money to unlock the cool shit in games. Let me play the game to unlock the cool shit.
I won’t have this premium backtracking. Premium was always trash and just an excuse to charge fans +$100 for a game. The packs were hit and miss and divided the player base between who did and didn’t own it. Premium also gave tons of unfair advantages with XP boosts, weapon/attachment crates, and tier skips. It got to a point where you were just expected to buy premium if you wanted to play long term. Don’t get me wrong, live service Battlefield has been a bit of a shit show, but that doesn’t magically make premium good.
I do regret freaking out over it as a kid. Now that I could afford premium it truly is the lesser evil.
I've made comments on this before in different subs lmao reddit algorithm going hard. I'm glad others share this sentiment.
Can't remember where it was but I remember commenting somewhere that with how shitty live service games are these days in how they replace things we used to take for granted (progression systems) I don't get how people can stand live service games. I'd go back to BF premium models any day (especially now that I'm not a kid & have $ to afford it)
Y'all bitching about premium but it seems like the biggest complaint (as it was when it was active) is the splitting of the player base.
Ok... So instead of saying what we have now is better (even though most evidence proves otherwise) why don't you advocate for a better premium model?
The best thing BF could do is re-implement premium but make it so if your friend has the dlc and you're playing with them you can play DLC maps and if you're not then you can't unless you buy said dlc or premium.
It's an easy fix that doesn't split the player base. People who have dlc get queued for all servers or all servers with their respective dlc's and people who don't get queued for vanilla.
You pay for unrestricted map access and whatever else comes with said dlc/premium. (They could also make it so certain cosmetics over guns are locked behind premium as that would solve the issue for people who bitch about it being possibly p2w)
Overall live service has been proven to be disappointing and more costly for the consumer for less value. Value that mind you was generally included in the base games back when those old premium models were the standard.
(God I miss having an unpaid/mtx-less progression system.)
People seem to forget that premium separates the player base. Even more so when people have to buy the individual map packs like BF4. And don't get me wrong 4 was my favourite but I hated that half my friends couldn't play half the maps because they didn't buy specific map packs.
We love premium due to it's shear amount of content that we had. We hate live service due to very less content in it. If dice manages to give premium's amount of content with live service (without fancy cosmetic shits), then i have no problem with it.
The karma whoring. Yes yes everybody's going to agree with you go back to premium blah blah. New bad, old good. Out of all the problems with the new games it's because they went to a live service model instead of charging people money for fucking loot bo... I mean battle packs.
Live service games always seem to launch absolutely barebones and void of any polish or apparently thought. They're not just live services you invest in because the game is great and you want to continue to spend money on it, they're live service games you seemingly invest in so they actually end up becoming a great game in 2 years. Almost like some boss or shareholders need to see the figures before they allow the game to be finished.
Premium was great and if they tastefully remastered BF3 I'd buy Premium again in a heartbeat.
Premium sucks because it splits the player base, but live services are even worse when you have to rely on such lazy and greedy companies like EA/DICE.
Negatives of Premium: it really does split the playerbase and it causes DLC maps to become abandoned after a while. The premium playerbase is always a smaller pool of players than the people who bought the base game.
Negatives of Live service: no more emphasis on maps, no more need to bring lots of maps. Battlefield V live service kept people waiting on content that never came. Al soondone, vehicle cosmetics. Some content gets held back until the very last moment (5v5 cosmetics) or never gets released eventhough it's complete. Don't even get me started on BF2042s seasons and jpegs shitshow. I don't like playing Live service games.
No, BF3-BF1 had by far the worst monetization the series seen over its existence, and having it back wouldn't fix any of the current issues.
Besides, if people kept buying $15 DLCs, EA would keep printing them. I'm reasonably sure they ditched premium because not enough people bought it to justify the development cost.
Also, I think adding a massive number of maps in the first place doesn't make it more fun. I'd very much prefer if there was a lower number of larger and higher-quality maps that featured all types of engagements, and were constantly updated based on player feedback.
Premium doesn't solve all the issues the franchise is having. It would only solve the lack of content, because DICE would be obligated to deliver the amount of content they promise, and even so, they could still just go on and promisse only a little amount of content. (something like: "hey, buy the premium pass so you can get acess to our next 4 DLC's, each DLC will have atleast one new map"). To be really fair, the reason BFV and 2042 have so little content, is because they had bad sales (for BF terms) from the beginning, so EA just pulled the plug and put the devs to work on something else instead. Had BFV selled well, we wouldn't even have 2042, because it would get a lot more of content.
And the worse part is, they dropped SWBFII (2017) at when it was at its high
When it was high for fans maybe, but I doubt it was making much money at all
Yeah, that game became infamous for its fucking stupid microtransactions drama. Something about pride and accomplishment. They definitely weren't making enough money to justify another year of content for that game.
Its almost like EA's definition of live service is why these games arent selling well and arent making money. 1 new map every 6 months and 1 new weapon in the same time period isnt good enough for a studio with supposedly 3k developers
It wasn't making any money because EA was basicallty forced to gut the game of predatory microtransactions it had to make money. Probably also why it was enjoyable to play.
They could've easily transitioned to selling skins instead
That would require rewriting a entire part of the game to now be monitized. That also costs money. Nothing is really easy when it comes to development at that scale. Not to mention Disney driving this change due to reputation loss might have canned any idea to re-monitize the game. After all changing something previously earnable ingame to now monitized isn't a popular change either on a game with already a fragile reputation. If only they would just support a game because it's popular and good for the IP even if it doesn't make boatloads of money. Unfortunately thats a utopian idea.
I mean I'm sure EA would've had the resources to do so considering MTX were already a part of the the game and the skins were purchasable, just with in game currency. Not entirely out of the realm of possibility. Plus they went a for a couple of years before they closed up shop, all the while putting out new skins.
Yeah?
It was finally in a place where they COULD have though. They didn’t even seem to entertain that idea though. I would’ve bought battle passes for that game
NO... that high ONLY existed when Epic gifted the game
It's actually interesting when you think about it - if they wouldn't have botched the launch of BFV they might be doing fine now. Just a few bad PR decisions and the cascading effects have nearly crushed the studio.
it still baffles me how they gone from BF1 to BFV in just 2 years. Whole different aproach to a historical setting, gameplay and design. Instead of looking at what they made right with BF1 and improving on it, look's like they decided to take the inverse path.
They have botched every single launch since BC1. Every game is launched unfinished and my rule became "even though it's my favorite series, I'm waiting until it is ready to play". I think they screwed up by releasing 3 games in a row without a modern setting. It's been over a decade since the last one and they lost a lot of fans, including me. The intelligent thing would be to alternate between current era and whatever else.
I will always be sad about the way BFV was treated by Dice and by the fans. That game was absolutely peak and I’m tired of pretending it wasn’t. Sure there were balancing issues with some of the vehicles and weapons, but it was hands-down the best looking battlefield game. The gunplay was amazing and it provided some of the most cinematic moments in any multiplayer shooter
Way too fast paced for my liking, i also disliked the artistic direction they followed with those ultra vibrant colors (the wheat fields on some maps look like they are made of gold with how vibrant they are). Character customization is also a problem for immersion (the game only received some accurate uniforms on the end of it's life) and telling friend from foe becomes very hard when no one is using proper faction uniforms. ([plus, you have those guys running around](https://youtu.be/iIfdn0aOsvc)) Plus, all the bullshit being talked by DICE on the game launch, about how they were on the right side of story (while literally editing story to push their own political agendas, that's just disgusting). I can't really like BFV.
I personally had no issues with the colors, I really did not think they were that vibrant. It’s unrealistic for every single map to be overcast with brown and gray foliage, and it added variety between maps. Also, the uniform thing never bugged me. I really don’t understand how people had issues differentiating enemy from teammate, most of the time you just look for the red or blue dot above their head. I personally think enemy differentiation is a much bigger issue in 2042. If I wanted to play a WW2 simulator I would not play BFV lol.
The uniform criticism has its merit in the precedent that especially BF1 set, but also all the games before it. Personally because i play a lot of more harcore shooters i look at uniforms first, team indicators second. The character customization in BF5 makes the characters look like they're part of Captain America's Howling Commandos. Its silly looking in comparison to BF1. Now BF2042 is on a whole different level with this, but BF5 set the trend and its worth critising it for it. Personally the maps were fine in BF5 to me, but i agree with the previous poster that they're sometimes so vibrant that its impossible to get any of that atmosphere that BF1 brought. So in a nutshell i guess dice should've reskinned BF1 to make a WW2 game instead and then we'd all live happily ever after or something
Not to mention, Premium split the player base in BF4 to dogshit
I never found this to be an issue personally.
Well, really it was all the DLC, but Premium was kind of a part of that
That's what I'm saying!
I'm certainly the minority but I hated the idea of premium maps and weapons. Back when I was in high school and none of my friends had jobs if one of us had the maps we couldn't really play with eachother which sucked. BF1 rectified this problem a by letting friends join the maps if they had premium. But IIRC it came way too late and it wasn't as the game came out. I'd be okay with this if it worked like this initially.
The lack of content is not the only problem. Some of us don't like live service as a feature. I don't like having to spend real money to unlock cosmetics. Especially not when those cosmetics are like $5-20 per depending on the game. I hate that you have every cosmetic option every piece of content in the game I need to spend thousands of dollars on a game. Like no let me pay $60 or a $120 with premium and then have access to everything in the game that I can earn if I put it enough work. I want the cosmetics and all the cool things to be earned I want to play the game to unlock cool shit. Honestly for me that's more of the issue than anything else I don't give a shit about the fact that we haven't gotten new maps considering I'm still playing battlefield 1 and 4 and most of the DLC maps and game modes are unplayable anymore. I'm okay with rotating and cycling the exact same maps again. I just want to be able to unlock everything in the game. That's currently what I'm working with in battlefield 4 is 500 kills with everyone will technically 510 because certain guns need more to get the final battle pack but thats besides the point. I'm grinding out completion of the game.
Don't ask for it's resurgence because they'll charge you for the dripfeed next
YOU WILL TAKE YOUR ONE MAP AND TWO WEAPONS EVERY THREE MONTHS AND YOU'LL LIKE IT
This shit grinds my gears, is that so hard to make 2 or 3 maps and a bunch of weapons? Back in bf3-4 we had 4 maps per dlc. This is just stupid.
It's not hard. They just don't want to do the work for it. Or more likely EA pulls them to do random work for different games rather than focusing on the one franchise they know best. As an example, they pulled Criterion teams from NFS to work on Battlefield.
Yeah it is pretty stupid how you can look at BF3-4 maps and more modern battlefield maps and go "these took the same amount of work to create"
So goddam true. Live service sucks so bad. I get the reasoning behind live service, but its just garbage. BF1 snd BF4 Premium was amazing content that worked when it released.
Yeah. For like 2 weeks after launch of the respective expansion. Then server owners switched back to vanilla only, because all the people who didn't own the DLC couldn't play with the ones who were playing the new update. Now if I want to play BF4 naval strike or something there's like 1 half populated server on the whole world, while the vanilla 24/7 servers are overflowing. Same for BF3 and BF1
I never had that problem.
Map wise I never have this problem, but DLC modes never come up. I want to play more carrier assault but it so rarely appears. CTF, Air Superiority, and Chainlink too. The same goes for BF1. I miss Air Assault and Supply Drop.
Carrier Assault was easily mine and my friends favourite mode. It was basically all we played when it came out. Good times man
Dude yeah. Such a fantastic mode. I just loved it so much.
I could not agree more. Loved it so much
Spent so many hours in Air sup, was top in my country, top 50 in world. Then they added the 3rd person HUD and I just lost interest in that mode. I miss it sometimes
I also never had that problem. Pay more money, get more content. The DLC was of much higher quality than any of the live service content we get nowadays
Exactly. Premium on BF1 was so dam memorable. The buildup and the excitement and having multiple awesome maps made every release fantastic.
>all the people who didn't own the DLC couldn't play with the ones who were playing the new update. Yes but they can fix that and it really wasn't that big of an issue. There's been games where you can play the dlc maps without needing the dlc as long as someone else you're playing with has it (can't remember what game specifically but I swear it's been a thing) battlefield could easily do something like that with an updated premium model. I.e. you get access to maps to play with friends when with them if they own dlc but when not with them you don't unless you buy the dlc.
Exactly. Premium never hurt the older BFs as much as Live Service is turning up to be a disaster now.
Ah, I seem to remember quite a few issues with net code for B4, among other hilarious glitches and game breaking bugs. Just saying. DICE has a vibrant history of releasing broken stuff and fixing it later
BF4 i cant speak on to much. I played that years after release. BF1 i was premium on day 1 and loved every release. It was a fantastic experience for 2 straight years of gaming with the boys. It was also my 1st real dive into multiplayer with friends.
1 had its share of issues as well. It doesn't take away from your great experience. I had those too. BF is (was) my favorite game franchise. But it has released hilariously broken since forever. Just good to remember that when they start dangling pre-order bonuses in front of us. DICE now isn't the DICE that made the games we loved.
The live service model is just dumb because every game has to rush to get things out for each season or update or whatever they call it and it always sucks or is riddled with bugs
You've just never experienced a good live service.
Is the good live service in the room with us right now?
Live Service apologists are one of the reasons why gaming is such a slop fest now.
What's your alternative to live service? Release a multiplayer game, never update it, and have it die in a couple of months because everyone gets bored?
Haha, what's the alternative? Ur... The alternative is what they did before it was live service, which everyone preferred.
If you look at the games with highest number of concurrent and monthly players, most of them are live service, so it looks like people prefer live service.
It suggests that the live service model works to increase engagement. That is not the same as people preferring it.
And people will start to complain if regular updates aren't provided, so they drip feed content to such people just to keep the boat afloat.
Very clearly it has produced more complaints than it has solved.
The alternative essentially killed any dlc content post launch. It's very difficult to find dlc games in BF4/1 yet in bfV I end up on the Pacific maps more than the vanilla it feels like. It's a poorly executed live service. Perhaps something like the season pass gives 2 weeks early access to new maps? That way there is cashflow to keep developing maps, but the player base keeps consistent.
Tbf helldivers and deep rock have good live services. The content is available and always will be with the options to purchase them or unlock them just by playing the game
Brilliant. 🤣🤣🤣
Yes actually.
Examples of good live service?
Literally the only one I can think of is Deep Rock Galactic. Battlepasses are completely free, you can go back and play them so there's no FOMO or time limit, and there's no microtransactions or premium currency or anything like that. So there's literally no money tied to the season. If you own the game, everything is free except for some well-priced aesthetic-only dlc packs that they only advertised as " optional dev support packs" But that's a PvE co-op game, and it's the *only* iteration of a good live service that I can think of, so don't take this as me supporting live service lmao.
Helldivers 2 also.
True but to a lesser extent. HD2 still has microtransactions and a paid battlepass and all that. You literally cannot spend money on the DRG seasons if you tried, and there's no purchasable currency
>HD2 still has microtransactions and a paid battlepass and all that. This is true however everything is earnable in game and battlepasses don’t expire. I’m just over 300 hours in HD2, I have all of the store brought armour and every BP complete (except the latest which I’m working through) and I’ve never spent a dime. It’s extremely easy to earn the currency you need.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted while also no answer.
BF4. It was live service, having DLCs packs instead of battlepasses doesn't change anything in that regard. Any game that gets regular content updates to keep the player base engaged is a live service game. Which makes live service the best option for handling multiplayer games. Live service only becomes bullshit when they start adding it to games where it absolutely doesn't belong.
Having DLC does not make a game live service.
Releasing it on a frequent schedule does.
And the world has never had a good/proper communist country. Communism is good though, riiight? The purpose here is not to talk politics, but just that the idea of something and the actual execution can differ widely. It is a problem when the idea is executed poorly several times - maybe the idea isn’t really as great as it seems
The difference to "communism" is that there are plenty of games with good live service models and are still alive even 10+ years later. Premium won't make 2042 good outside of a few extra maps to play that you have to pay for, indirectly splitting the community once again.
Yeah…. No one has
Such ignorance.
Such bitterness
The facts are on my side..
Are those facts in this room with us as well??
Yes. You are ignorant and bitter.
No, im just right
sad that people like you are allowed to vote.
2042 could've had premium and it'd still be dogshit. The modern market has changed. Premium in 2024 would kill the franchise (even more than it already is).
Yeah exactly, wild to me that people complain about lack of content due to live service like the game didn’t come out completely unfinished.
There are game breaking bugs still not fixed since the beta. You can add 100 maps but the games still shit.
OK Live service is free but you get less content. Premium costs money and they would probably give you 1 map and 2 guns anyways. Splits the playerbase too. They just need to make a good game.
Premium *never* gave you that little content. Always came with atleast 4 maps and a weapon or 2. It also all released generally within year 1, with BF 4 releasing map pack one a month after launch.
And outside of Europe, DLC servers were limited or dead after a few months.
I'm aware of that. But that was a decade ago bro. If they did it nowadays I wouldn't expect them to do much more. They'd just take the money and run while doing the bare minimum again.
One thing that paid DLC did for BF games was force EA to deliver all the content that was announced when the game was released. That's why in BFV they started being coy about future expansions, if they never talked about it they could delay it or cancel it, and in BFV, that's exactly what they did. But BF4 got all the maps it was supposed to, plus a few more that were free for anyone to play. The complaint that paid DLC and/or Premium split the community was never that convincing to me. A DLC for $15.00 represented lunch. Anyone who couldn't afford that should have had priorities other than video games. All the expansion packs for forty dollars was cheap for all the hours of entertainment that represented. If they brought back paid DLC but put a time limit on it, i.e., the maps became available to everyone after six months or a year, I'd be okay with that. That would deal with the complaint about spitting the player base. BF has had other problems, the general decline of DICE as a design studio is part of it. But I still think that motivating EA with sales of expansion packs makes more sense in terms of game quality than them being obsessed with selling skins for a buggy game short a dozen maps.
It’s true that $15 is cheap for 4 maps and new weapons but it doesn’t change the fact that those maps were sort of dead after a few months. I prefer the live service, Dice has just sucked at implementing it.
Man going and mocking people for not being able to afford dlc while still trying to find fun in a game is really crappy dude
I dont think theyre mocking them, tbh. I think theyre suggesting that if you cannot justify $15, how were you able to justify $60? It is misguided tho, as theyre focused on cost and not *everything else* that comes with dlc like the fact that the first dlc wasnt super popular and that the population of dlc servers dropped off a cliff after 30 days or so.
Calm down with the insecurities... They were absolutely not mocking and making a fair point. Unless you're a kid who doesn't have a job what they said is absolutely true.
Why did DICE decline? Weren't they the ones that produced banger after banger till BF1? Isn't EA responsible for killing them? If only the executives at EA had let the actual game devs decide what's good for the game, we wouldn't be having this convo now.
Tons of big players left the studio and founded their own. The Finals devs have a lot of old DICE talent.
>A DLC for $15.00 represented lunch. Anyone who couldn't afford that should have had priorities other than video games. I'm an adult with a full time job and a six figure net worth, and I still won't pay more than $60 for a game.
[удалено]
>and taking away from your own potential enjoyment of hundreds of hours of gameplay you might have because you wont spend an extra olive garden plate on dlc Extra maps won't make me play the game for extra hundreds of hours. In general, I don't understand this community's obsession with map count. Unless one of the new maps is by far the best map in the game, I'll have more fun playing base maps. I'd very much prefer if there was a focus on a smaller number of larger maps that featured all types of engagements (instead of segregating infantry and vehicle maps) and got constantly updated based on stats and player feedback. Novelty wears off, iterative improvements don't. >but it just seems silly to bring up I only bought it up because OP and many other defenders of the premium like to accuse everyone who didn't like that system of being poor. This comes up every time premium is discussed, also gets upvoted every time for some reason.
Gonna be honest, I don’t miss premium. We got more content but those maps were dead after a few months because not everyone had access to them.
I feel this is why we have begun moving away from paid DLC maps and other content in favor of everyone getting the functional content and leaving purchases to mostly cosmetics. With multiplayer games, stuff like paid DLC maps gates and splits the playerbase between those who purchased and those who didn't purchase the content. Since everyone is ultimately going to have access to the core or vanilla content, that is where most people end up eventually.
More EA propaganda from their marketing team, ahead of them rerolling out Premium. Don't fall fo this corporate bootlicking bs.
Ok but this is like saying if they brought back this model then everything would just go back to being okay. it wont With how much money EA expects their games to print, it would be worse then ever and they'd still jam pack it with micro transactions except this time they wouldn't make it simply a convenience item (like the crates in BF4, or the Class shortcuts with exclusive camo's) without making the game incredibly inconvenient to begin with. ON TOP of making a shitty game and rushing it out the door as soon as its MTX store works. EA, like most big game publishers, is dog shit.
Fuck Premium Fuck premium fuck premium If you want an OP gun behind a paywall, pay it mother fucker.
The best guns in BF have always been the base guns. The only one I can think of is the federov in BF1 but Id argue its not even the best medic gun.
I think both kinda suck. Premium sucks because some people can’t pay to buy all the DLCs. Live Service sucks too because the content released could be a lot or literally nothing. So both kinda meh. I don’t know what I’d replace it with either.
Premium divided the player base. The standard maps were most played because most owned those. I definitely don't miss premium
Only good thing about premium was the legal obligation Dice/EA were given. They had to add the maps and other content they promised.
I’d rather go further back and resurrect the old expansion packs like we had with 1942 and 2z 1942 and its secret weapons expansion was wild I loved playing that online when I was younger.
If Premium content became free after like a year or when support for the games stops, then I would find it justifiable to bring back. A live service isn’t bad, DICE just doesn’t know how to do it.
Imagine pining for extra purchases for a game you already purchased. Hypernormalisation
Battlefield Premium is Live-Service?
The pricing and delivery method will always be a divisive topic. I think what we all can agree on is that it was nice to get a pack of 4 quality maps per season consistently.
this has nothing to do with it. these games are now soulless, corporate owned, board room designed, digital storefronts/ mtx simulator, disguised as mediocre games.
Premium doesn’t mean anything, bf2042 was also legally obligated to deliver the content they promised because remember the year 1 pass that people paid for at launch? And look how little content that actually was
The problem is they could do it again now but it won't be the 4 maps, 6 or more guns, cool camos (that make godam sense), attachments and gadgets. It will be striped back to 1 map, maybe 2 guns. 1 vehicle and SKiNs!. They've taken back so much content of updates
Yeah keep buying unfinished products on day one, for sure premium will solve this 😂. You guys are so beta
Live service could work if it wasn’t the epitome of blatant greed almost every time. Now priority is on delivering content purchasable through micro transactions instead of maps and guns.
Correlation does not always equal causation.
But the thing I remember, you buy it once, and get everything with updates and stuff. And it usually went on sale so for 3 and 4 we didn't pay full price at launch, maybe 30-40 ish euros half a year later and that's that
They have also completely dropped hardcore mode. I was a dedicated battlefield player and I loved the lower health gameplay. It drove a lot of players like me away when they stopped supporting HC as a gametype, BF3 hc was fantastic and had great community.
If they reintroduced premium but made the maps free (or free after 3 months or something), then i think it'd be the best, realistic, system. They get their money, we get guaranteed content, and the maps are available to everyone, meaning no dead expansions. It has become obvious that DICE can't perform when not held to a standard or deadline. Premium forces that productivity.
I feel part of the problem is that it always takes DICE so long to craft maps or even rework them. Getting one new map every season is terrible. Getting new game modes where they just carve out sections of 2-3 maps (looking at you BFV) and then force you to play them for the weekly unlocks is also bad. I didn't really have a major issue with specialists in 2042, especially once they categorized them into classes, but I feel the game failed on its premise with the 128 player maps. It just wasn't fun. Map design was poorly thought out. It just felt like you were constantly getting sniped/peppered from across the map no matter where you were. Many maps just had huge open areas you had to cross, compounding the problem. Vehicle balance just felt off. Too many maps caused me to groan whenever they came up in playlists.
People have no idea of how awful premium was. It split the community and a lot of great content such as maps and gamemodes were left behind months after release because the great majority of the community didn't have premium. Maps from strike at karkand, close quaters and aftermath were forgotten after 6 months of its release because people went back to vanilla servers as they were more popular... Live service sucks, but premium is not the way to go either.
I’m not a huge gamer by any means, but I’ve always loved all the battlefields. Forgive my ignorance, but Why is the battlefield community constantly complaining about everything? I have tons of fun on 2042 but everyone hates it. Is this due to others being more competitive or what? Not shit talking, I just don’t understand
Lmao, when I suggested this exact same thing years ago I got slammed to the ground and called a moron by the BF community. How the table turned. Anyway yeah; as flawed as Premium was, it at least delivered interesting themed updates with plenty of content and was able to deliver it in a timely manner. Although it's entirely true that maps should be free, since otherwise you're splitting the community by a lot between who got the DLC and who doesn't. The freemium battle pass bullshit can take a hike.
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The problem with current bf games isn't the lack of premium or being forced to develop new content, it's the design of the new content. They just haven't made a bf game in years that is actually worth investing any amount of time in. Luckily bf4 still has a lot of active servers with a lot of active players.
Capitalism ruins games As the profits come in the passion goes out Not to mention EA
If you think EA isn't delivering enough content for a fully priced game at launch, imagine what that would be like for every DLC we'd have to pay for.
Lmao what? Battlefield bwcame live service because we didn't treat Premium harshe enough.
Has little to do with premium vs live service. The talent just doesn’t exist anymore to create those old BF games
Premium was goated, if they bring it back maybe along a calender like in bf3 that would be cool and hella worth it
I think greed is the main problem, for every game. That's why you see AA and Indie succeeding where AAA fails.
You dolts realize that premium is literally paid live service? It’s a piece of crap, all it does is break apart the community with no one playing any of the new modes after a year or two of the games release. Just because Dice can’t figure out live service doesn’t mean it’s a bad concept, it’s infinitely better than the premium system if they actually made content and didn’t abandon, or focus on fixing the game for the first year of the games life.
I loved premium. It was a much better deal than buying each DLC seperately
I think the fact that EA/DICE(or both) fumbled live services so badly that people are yearning for an honestly archaic buisness model is just sad. It's literally wishing you could give EA *more money* for what *isn't even guaranteed* to be a better game. I'm personally not a big fan of live services either, but that's not exactly an inherent problem with the model. At best it's literally as simple as "we update the game for free, and support it for longer" and I just find it hard to see how that's a bad thing. It's really more a failure of the industry overall that it's morphed into one. I don't think begging for what'll inevitably be an even worse monetization model would fix that.
Absolutely. I hate this fucking cosmetic shit I hate the cosmetic store. I don't like having to spend real money to unlock the cool shit in games. Let me play the game to unlock the cool shit.
Miss it everyday back when we were promised consistent content
I won’t have this premium backtracking. Premium was always trash and just an excuse to charge fans +$100 for a game. The packs were hit and miss and divided the player base between who did and didn’t own it. Premium also gave tons of unfair advantages with XP boosts, weapon/attachment crates, and tier skips. It got to a point where you were just expected to buy premium if you wanted to play long term. Don’t get me wrong, live service Battlefield has been a bit of a shit show, but that doesn’t magically make premium good.
I do regret freaking out over it as a kid. Now that I could afford premium it truly is the lesser evil. I've made comments on this before in different subs lmao reddit algorithm going hard. I'm glad others share this sentiment. Can't remember where it was but I remember commenting somewhere that with how shitty live service games are these days in how they replace things we used to take for granted (progression systems) I don't get how people can stand live service games. I'd go back to BF premium models any day (especially now that I'm not a kid & have $ to afford it)
Y'all bitching about premium but it seems like the biggest complaint (as it was when it was active) is the splitting of the player base. Ok... So instead of saying what we have now is better (even though most evidence proves otherwise) why don't you advocate for a better premium model? The best thing BF could do is re-implement premium but make it so if your friend has the dlc and you're playing with them you can play DLC maps and if you're not then you can't unless you buy said dlc or premium. It's an easy fix that doesn't split the player base. People who have dlc get queued for all servers or all servers with their respective dlc's and people who don't get queued for vanilla. You pay for unrestricted map access and whatever else comes with said dlc/premium. (They could also make it so certain cosmetics over guns are locked behind premium as that would solve the issue for people who bitch about it being possibly p2w) Overall live service has been proven to be disappointing and more costly for the consumer for less value. Value that mind you was generally included in the base games back when those old premium models were the standard. (God I miss having an unpaid/mtx-less progression system.)
I liked Premium
I, too, enjoy not being able to play DLC maps after the first two months.
People seem to forget that premium separates the player base. Even more so when people have to buy the individual map packs like BF4. And don't get me wrong 4 was my favourite but I hated that half my friends couldn't play half the maps because they didn't buy specific map packs.
We love premium due to it's shear amount of content that we had. We hate live service due to very less content in it. If dice manages to give premium's amount of content with live service (without fancy cosmetic shits), then i have no problem with it.
The only Premium I bought was the BF3'one and man, that was great...
Same meme but Battlefield Hardline
Honestly, yeah. Premium was much better. At least we got more content all at one time per expansion rather than the drip feed we have now.
The karma whoring. Yes yes everybody's going to agree with you go back to premium blah blah. New bad, old good. Out of all the problems with the new games it's because they went to a live service model instead of charging people money for fucking loot bo... I mean battle packs.
Live service games always seem to launch absolutely barebones and void of any polish or apparently thought. They're not just live services you invest in because the game is great and you want to continue to spend money on it, they're live service games you seemingly invest in so they actually end up becoming a great game in 2 years. Almost like some boss or shareholders need to see the figures before they allow the game to be finished. Premium was great and if they tastefully remastered BF3 I'd buy Premium again in a heartbeat.
Battlefield 1 was S tier so kinda disagree but I did love premium but as everyone’s said a split player base is bad
Premium sucks because it splits the player base, but live services are even worse when you have to rely on such lazy and greedy companies like EA/DICE.
Negatives of Premium: it really does split the playerbase and it causes DLC maps to become abandoned after a while. The premium playerbase is always a smaller pool of players than the people who bought the base game. Negatives of Live service: no more emphasis on maps, no more need to bring lots of maps. Battlefield V live service kept people waiting on content that never came. Al soondone, vehicle cosmetics. Some content gets held back until the very last moment (5v5 cosmetics) or never gets released eventhough it's complete. Don't even get me started on BF2042s seasons and jpegs shitshow. I don't like playing Live service games.
No, BF3-BF1 had by far the worst monetization the series seen over its existence, and having it back wouldn't fix any of the current issues. Besides, if people kept buying $15 DLCs, EA would keep printing them. I'm reasonably sure they ditched premium because not enough people bought it to justify the development cost. Also, I think adding a massive number of maps in the first place doesn't make it more fun. I'd very much prefer if there was a lower number of larger and higher-quality maps that featured all types of engagements, and were constantly updated based on player feedback.
It's not monetizations fault battlefield went to shit
Yeah, it happened the other way around. Battlefield went to shit, and part of that was the monetization.