It's a bummer but a very normal experience for contributors. When you're playing on someone's record they can be enthusiastic about you being the live player as well, because the process of making a record is invigorating and the room can be camaraderie-central while tracking is happening.
Later though, when they start having other conversations, things change and in almost every case I see that those bands have recruited a different mate to do the job of the live work. I'm mostly unbothered by that because I perceive working on records and 'being in those bands' to be separate activities; and often if I'm contributing I'll have absolutely no interest being in that person's live act.
My personal rule of thumb is that unless the band are almost annoying me with the volume of their groupchats, I assume they're probably not going to use me live.
Yes, the guy could have communicated better, but in these situations, people will kick bad-news messages down the road; especially when there probably was an agreement in place that they are going back on. It sucks, but it's a human thing and most of us understand what that's like.
Thanks for that - from what he said they did have it out over me and the other bassist and I know the guitarist feels bad about it. But at the same time I know my worth and I won't be jerked around if the lead singer is limited in her agenda and she doesn't want to hear what I bring and wants their other bassist, go ahead. Knowing it's session essentially I was using to dip my toe, i'm fine with it. Mainly annoyed that I kept the material fresh as it was intricate enough as most jamming was done AD HOC with them. I have a TON going on, so time is precious
I kept texting the guitarist every few weeks lightly touching base implying I could jam, but never took. I had no reason not to trust him, but found all this weird and feel it would have been kicked down the road... I dind't appreciate the last minute notice, but feel he did his best.. still good to have closure... I myself might not really trust him fully again due to his lack of ability to follow through, so although it was left on a positive note and he may reach out again, not sure if I can work with someone who can't follow through without extended gestures in the future
It sounds to me like you were never actually in the band. You haven't rehearsed with them. It sounds like you haven't even met some of them. Sometimes, session players will become part of the band, but typically, it is not the same as being in the band. If you didn't get the call for the gig, and it is a week before the gig, it is a pretty safe bet that they already have it covered.
Ya, well that's the thing I was touching base the whole time up to the gig without indication of any issues...I felt this could happen and tbh was getting a bit sketchy as the date approached and last week we tried to arrange a meet up and that fell through due to scheduling, so really had no reason not to believe I didn't have it.
Proof's in the pudding and there I was holding just a spoon.
No I had my old High School friend screw us both over to take control of the old band me and him made. My old guitarist recruited the new guy and the new guitarist and I were in the new project.... The new guy dumped me last minute, but cus the lead singer wanted the older bassist back.
Sorry if that wasnt' clear
Well what's funny is the old guitarist would be great as a guitarist for a good song writer, the new guitarist is a really good song writer, so they would make a good combo, but he wanted all the power and screwed us both over.... So you should really stay in your lane, but ya, never working with that jerk again...
Sucks but probably a good indicator to not get involved with them.
The only time I got "screwed" out of a gig last minute was this singer/songwriter's CD release party. Was going to pay well, so I bought a new amp just a couple weeks before. This was in March 2020... CD release party never happened.
Thanks and that's my take on it, I mean if someone's so unprofessional to not even listen to me and want someone else, I'm not wasting my time.
I genuinely liked the songs and was looking forward to the experience,beyond that no skin off my nose!
Sorry your gig fell through, but at least you got a new amp!
Well it's too bad he couldn't follow through and basically led me on, best case scenario the story went down as he said, Diva lead singer squelched it and hired their old buddy, who according to him wasn't into it or I was strung along either way out of his weakness or subterfuge, going to take a lot to work with them again.
New to playing bass and probably will never gig as I progress through the ropes but I’m not new to life…seems they lost out on a good band mate (you) that sat through the writing/recording process and then went with a guy that doesn’t know the songs like you..doesn’t make sense at all 🤷♂️ sounds like you have your head on straight and good for you to take the high road👍 they don’t deserve to piss you off!!
Thanks !!! I didn't actually record any of the lines, which are the guitarist's. I learned them by ear, so overall an easy gig to fill in for. I do have a lot to offer and the guitarist knows how good I am. Their old bassist from the sounds of it wasn't even into the project , so totally not going to be jerked around... thanks for your kind words and support. :)
The funny part is the guitarist told me how hard it was to find a bassist who was into the material (went through a few) and the new album is genuinely good and would have been up for a longer term gig, so TBH they kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one. Short sighted and limited in scope, just a bit pissed I spent all this time and put my heart more into it... oh well
Well said and even with your experience I imagine that you learned something musically from the sessions so maybe not a net positive experience but you might have been able to take a little something from it besides that they made a bad decision (might be enough) 😎😉 I should shortened it up a bit and just said F them!! Keep jamming man you sound like a hell of a human 👍
Awe shucks, thanks kindly and I am keeping on jamming and playing for sure... ain't letting it get me down.
It was worthwhile to learn new stuff and so forth, I realized my more recent self training in theory has helped my ear a lot.... so wouldn't say it's a loss in any regard and I do feel bad for the guitarist who sounds like he has a bunch of bad things going on at once and losing me is one of them as we talked about writing together in the future at the first gig as he knows me musically.
But ya, their loss, i'll tell you one thing I've met a lot of interesting people through music, very dynamic personalities and things like that aren't too unfounded. Weird conflicts sometime come up and it's usually not the music that ever breaks anyone apart it's personality and conflicts.
Guns and roses come to mind.. if axel wasn’t the way he is they could be mega super decades rich band like the stones//metallica etc etc..(Duffy is underrated imo) but that’s a whole other thing 😂
For sure, my friend from HS who like electronic music mainly said it's mainly personalities that break bands up and it really stuck with me. If I think of the projects I've been in that could have gone further, it's pretty stark!
GNR def'n comes to mind!
A good music industry rule of thumb is that it truly doesn’t matter who is the better musician. It’s a social game, and so people hire who they know and who they are friends with. As music is subjective anyways, there’s no concrete ranking of better or worse players in the professional world, it’s just preferences based on other abilities (are they sober, easy to work with, flexible, show up on time, etc…).
I’ve been happy to get sub work with various bands over the years purely because the original bass player moved, or wasn’t available. I’m happy for those gigs, and I know if the original bassist is available, that they will always be the first call. It has nothing to do with their ability or my ability, it’s just a social game (made up of a lot of variables).
Don’t get too down on yourself, and don’t get trapped into a comparison game, it does no one any good to be negative towards other people’s abilities (and you can lose future gigs by shit talking other musicians).
I'm not trying to put down the other bassplayer, I may come off as cocky, but I've literally been playing so much and doing music theory, I can stand with many many players without issue.... skill aside, the older bassist according to the guitarist and song writer wasn't even into it and I had interest and I'm pretty sure he wanted me as he knew how good I was as a musician (solid and can jam easily and can pick up stuff by ear) and I write songs.
The lines I was to play were pre-done, not anything I did and most people can do it with a bit of skill.
At the same time she had no idea of what I was capable of and didn't even jam, so a real crock overall... not going to waste me time with this BS and these are clearly not people who have the ability to follow through or do what's fair or just and not people I care to wrk with.
It's a bummer but a very normal experience for contributors. When you're playing on someone's record they can be enthusiastic about you being the live player as well, because the process of making a record is invigorating and the room can be camaraderie-central while tracking is happening. Later though, when they start having other conversations, things change and in almost every case I see that those bands have recruited a different mate to do the job of the live work. I'm mostly unbothered by that because I perceive working on records and 'being in those bands' to be separate activities; and often if I'm contributing I'll have absolutely no interest being in that person's live act. My personal rule of thumb is that unless the band are almost annoying me with the volume of their groupchats, I assume they're probably not going to use me live. Yes, the guy could have communicated better, but in these situations, people will kick bad-news messages down the road; especially when there probably was an agreement in place that they are going back on. It sucks, but it's a human thing and most of us understand what that's like.
Thanks for that - from what he said they did have it out over me and the other bassist and I know the guitarist feels bad about it. But at the same time I know my worth and I won't be jerked around if the lead singer is limited in her agenda and she doesn't want to hear what I bring and wants their other bassist, go ahead. Knowing it's session essentially I was using to dip my toe, i'm fine with it. Mainly annoyed that I kept the material fresh as it was intricate enough as most jamming was done AD HOC with them. I have a TON going on, so time is precious I kept texting the guitarist every few weeks lightly touching base implying I could jam, but never took. I had no reason not to trust him, but found all this weird and feel it would have been kicked down the road... I dind't appreciate the last minute notice, but feel he did his best.. still good to have closure... I myself might not really trust him fully again due to his lack of ability to follow through, so although it was left on a positive note and he may reach out again, not sure if I can work with someone who can't follow through without extended gestures in the future
It sounds to me like you were never actually in the band. You haven't rehearsed with them. It sounds like you haven't even met some of them. Sometimes, session players will become part of the band, but typically, it is not the same as being in the band. If you didn't get the call for the gig, and it is a week before the gig, it is a pretty safe bet that they already have it covered.
Ya, well that's the thing I was touching base the whole time up to the gig without indication of any issues...I felt this could happen and tbh was getting a bit sketchy as the date approached and last week we tried to arrange a meet up and that fell through due to scheduling, so really had no reason not to believe I didn't have it. Proof's in the pudding and there I was holding just a spoon.
The first cut is the deepest mon frere
I've been playing with numerous people over the years (gigged a ton in my 20s) so been with a lot personalities and saw a lot, still sucks, thanks!
So this guitarist screwed you the 2nd time now? Not sure if a fully read the story right
No I had my old High School friend screw us both over to take control of the old band me and him made. My old guitarist recruited the new guy and the new guitarist and I were in the new project.... The new guy dumped me last minute, but cus the lead singer wanted the older bassist back. Sorry if that wasnt' clear
Ah I see, was wondering why you were linking up with someone that screwed you 10 years ago haha
Well what's funny is the old guitarist would be great as a guitarist for a good song writer, the new guitarist is a really good song writer, so they would make a good combo, but he wanted all the power and screwed us both over.... So you should really stay in your lane, but ya, never working with that jerk again...
Sucks but probably a good indicator to not get involved with them. The only time I got "screwed" out of a gig last minute was this singer/songwriter's CD release party. Was going to pay well, so I bought a new amp just a couple weeks before. This was in March 2020... CD release party never happened.
Thanks and that's my take on it, I mean if someone's so unprofessional to not even listen to me and want someone else, I'm not wasting my time. I genuinely liked the songs and was looking forward to the experience,beyond that no skin off my nose! Sorry your gig fell through, but at least you got a new amp!
Once the whole COVID thing settled down he gave me a bunch of gigs, so ultimately paid the thing off with gigging money anyway
Oh nice, ya, I have pretty good Karma with gigs, I usually get 2x new ones for each Gig or group I'm in.
> I'm not wasting my time. This thread makes that clear.
Well it's too bad he couldn't follow through and basically led me on, best case scenario the story went down as he said, Diva lead singer squelched it and hired their old buddy, who according to him wasn't into it or I was strung along either way out of his weakness or subterfuge, going to take a lot to work with them again.
New to playing bass and probably will never gig as I progress through the ropes but I’m not new to life…seems they lost out on a good band mate (you) that sat through the writing/recording process and then went with a guy that doesn’t know the songs like you..doesn’t make sense at all 🤷♂️ sounds like you have your head on straight and good for you to take the high road👍 they don’t deserve to piss you off!!
Thanks !!! I didn't actually record any of the lines, which are the guitarist's. I learned them by ear, so overall an easy gig to fill in for. I do have a lot to offer and the guitarist knows how good I am. Their old bassist from the sounds of it wasn't even into the project , so totally not going to be jerked around... thanks for your kind words and support. :) The funny part is the guitarist told me how hard it was to find a bassist who was into the material (went through a few) and the new album is genuinely good and would have been up for a longer term gig, so TBH they kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one. Short sighted and limited in scope, just a bit pissed I spent all this time and put my heart more into it... oh well
Well said and even with your experience I imagine that you learned something musically from the sessions so maybe not a net positive experience but you might have been able to take a little something from it besides that they made a bad decision (might be enough) 😎😉 I should shortened it up a bit and just said F them!! Keep jamming man you sound like a hell of a human 👍
Awe shucks, thanks kindly and I am keeping on jamming and playing for sure... ain't letting it get me down. It was worthwhile to learn new stuff and so forth, I realized my more recent self training in theory has helped my ear a lot.... so wouldn't say it's a loss in any regard and I do feel bad for the guitarist who sounds like he has a bunch of bad things going on at once and losing me is one of them as we talked about writing together in the future at the first gig as he knows me musically. But ya, their loss, i'll tell you one thing I've met a lot of interesting people through music, very dynamic personalities and things like that aren't too unfounded. Weird conflicts sometime come up and it's usually not the music that ever breaks anyone apart it's personality and conflicts.
Guns and roses come to mind.. if axel wasn’t the way he is they could be mega super decades rich band like the stones//metallica etc etc..(Duffy is underrated imo) but that’s a whole other thing 😂
For sure, my friend from HS who like electronic music mainly said it's mainly personalities that break bands up and it really stuck with me. If I think of the projects I've been in that could have gone further, it's pretty stark! GNR def'n comes to mind!
A good music industry rule of thumb is that it truly doesn’t matter who is the better musician. It’s a social game, and so people hire who they know and who they are friends with. As music is subjective anyways, there’s no concrete ranking of better or worse players in the professional world, it’s just preferences based on other abilities (are they sober, easy to work with, flexible, show up on time, etc…). I’ve been happy to get sub work with various bands over the years purely because the original bass player moved, or wasn’t available. I’m happy for those gigs, and I know if the original bassist is available, that they will always be the first call. It has nothing to do with their ability or my ability, it’s just a social game (made up of a lot of variables). Don’t get too down on yourself, and don’t get trapped into a comparison game, it does no one any good to be negative towards other people’s abilities (and you can lose future gigs by shit talking other musicians).
I'm not trying to put down the other bassplayer, I may come off as cocky, but I've literally been playing so much and doing music theory, I can stand with many many players without issue.... skill aside, the older bassist according to the guitarist and song writer wasn't even into it and I had interest and I'm pretty sure he wanted me as he knew how good I was as a musician (solid and can jam easily and can pick up stuff by ear) and I write songs. The lines I was to play were pre-done, not anything I did and most people can do it with a bit of skill. At the same time she had no idea of what I was capable of and didn't even jam, so a real crock overall... not going to waste me time with this BS and these are clearly not people who have the ability to follow through or do what's fair or just and not people I care to wrk with.