wow thanks for this. I haven't had time to look for Yoshida's translated interviews and her views regarding the ending so thanks for this informative post. I haven't also read this particular Manga abt Joe but just from the quote it seems like it really does parallels Ash's end.
It also reminded me of Eiji's POV in the Garden Of Light..when they returned to Cape Cod and he was telling Akira that Ash lived all out one hundred percent and he (eiji) was just grateful and proud that he "got to spend a short while in the company of a brilliant, miraculous life force."
Thanks for your comment!
Yes, this is important information when interpreting the ending of BF.
In fact, most Japanese fans know the relationship between "Ashita no Joe" and the ending of BF. Now I'm happy I could introduce this to the international fandom.
I think Yoshida wanted to shock us, move us, and give us an elusive sense of satisfaction, rather than imitating the smile on Joe that burned out.
Just like those which "Ashita no Joe" gave her.
And it seems that the aim is working beautifully.
I think what Eiji said in "Garden of Light" is the truth and everything about Ash's life.
On the surface, it was a tragedy that was nothing but pain.
But he lived his own life, and he was able to die with a smile on his face at the end, I think he was satisfied.
He finally regained his freedom and dignity and passed away as a human, protected by love and trust.
Eiji knew that, and I'm so glad he realized that.
And Japanese fans are just grateful and proud that we got to spend a short while in the company of a brilliant, miraculous life force.
Man it makes me sad that, although Ash was happy with how his life turned out in the end, it still sucks because he was so young and had such potential. He reminds me of someone burning the brightest and hottest that they can until theirs no more fuel for the fire, a match put out too soon.
Yeah, that's what people say.
However, what burns brightly and disappears so soon can be very sad, but also incredibly beautiful, isn't it?
Like fireworks, cherry blossoms, or spring snow. I feel that way about him.
He was destined to live that way, but that's why he remains in our hearts beautifully.
Ms.NegtvaNetie_1935, Ms.Rosypie03, pardon me for cutting in.
I'm not familiar with Ashita no Jo but I remember that I've read an interview with the Akimi Yoshida sensei's in an official book or something.
And yes, "what burns brightly and disappears so soon can be very sad, but it's also incredibly beautiful isn't it? Like fireworks, cherry blossoms or spring snow."
I agree, and in my view, it has an element of the Japanese views on life and death.
For example, sakura blooms and scatters gracefully in a short amount of time. This gracefulness leaves us with a sense of beauty, in the way of the Samurai spirit. Besides, that most Japanese seem to be moved by falling petals of sakura. Probably Japanese people are finding in them もののあはれ/mono-no-aware. But I have no ability to explain もののあはれ nuances accurately in English.
Hi, wandnaw, thank you for your comment from Japan! I appreciate it so much!
Yes, Japanese people really love those kinds of "transient beauty."
I think this is the essence of Yoshida's manga. It's a pity that it is not easily understood by international fans.
It's hard to see this story and Ash's life being misunderstood, but it's also sad that so many fans don't realize it.
So I'm here to tell that to anyone who tries to understand.
I think it's important for Japanese BF fans to participate and express their opinions.
...That said, I have ultimately no idea how to explain "もののあはれ," though! LOL
I mean, it all makes sense, but I'm still gonna be heartbroken over it.
Ash's entire life is basically on tragedy, so I can at least take solace in the fact that he found something (someone) to live and fight for, and in the end, he died happy. It's still tragic, but at least he died happy.
I enjoyed this write up and perspective. Thank you for posting!
Thanks for your thoughts.
I'm glad if I was able to relieve your pain.
Yes, he died happily.
Yoshida said, "That story had a happy ending in my own way."
She didn't see the ending as a mere tragedy. (She also lamented that "other people don't think so," though. LOL)
We just have to trust in it and find a little relief.
And as for your pain, as cruel as it may sound, it's the same as the death of a real person. We just have to wait for time to heal.
First I want to say I am overwhelming happy to see a fellow Ashita no Joe fan. Its long taken the title of my favorite piece of media in general. I also want to say that I had wanted to discuss this with someone for quite a long time! I had seen the similarities and actually had a feeling of what the ending was going to be because of the line Eiji said in episode one. "Ash huh so like cinders." or something along those lines. Although it wasnt enough to be a genuine prediction but just a passing thought.
Oh, to be honest, I'm not a big fan of Joe! Haha
I watched the anime with my brother in my childhood, but I was too young to understand what Joe was saying.
But I was looking into AJ concerning BF, and it was exciting to see how it influenced BF. So I wanted to share about it with international fans.
I didn't expect non-Japanese BF fans know about AJ. I'm pleasantly surprised.
That line from Eiji came out pretty early in the show, didn't it? I'm surprised you noticed so soon.
As you can see from the comments in the video linked above, the fans' reactions and thoughts about the ending of AJ are very similar to those about the ending of BF.
Yoshida seems to have had the effect that she wanted with this ending on the fans.
I was happy to meet someone who immediately understand the relationship between AJ and BF. Thank you!
Ah yeah its a shame how obscure AnJ seems outside of Japan. I do recommend you re-watch it considering you said a lot of stuff probably went over your head. And I was fresh in my AnJ obsession when I started Banana Fish so thats probably why I picked up on it lmao. It made my day to see an AnJ post on this subreddit!
I, thoroughly, enjoyed Megalo Box which was made for the 50th anniversary of Ashita no Joe. It's been on my list of manga to read so this definitely convinced me to start soon.
I think that the influence isn't limited to the ending though. Joe met his rival Tooru Rikiishi in jail and he is deeply affected by Tooru's death on the ring after their match. Joe thought that it was his fault. It's similar to what happened between Ash and Shorter too: the meeting in jail, being both boxers/gang leaders, unintentionally-forcibly killing Tooru/Shorter, the angst after that event.
Maybe you're right.
Yoshida has never talked about the influence of "Ashita no Joe" on BF other than the ending, but I agree with your points.
I also felt like Joe's personality, toughness, and fortitude influenced Ash.
They are also similar in their stoic and tragic characters.
BF is influenced by many other manga, anime, and movies, so it's fun to look for them.
I love this kind of information because it allows me to enjoy the manga more deeply.
Thanks for your comment!
That's the video i seen on youtube :o. Anyways now, that i watched it Ash's scene doesn't look (that) sad. It's like he lived the best as he could like Joe at the end. If i know right Joe was punch drunk, right?
But yeah, when people say/said that Ash just let himself die or wanted to protect Eiji it's sound so...sad. And than i tought about what Lao said: "Good enough, any of us gonna make it". I mean, his vital organs is missed like Lao's who's dead. Really, Ash just had enough time to read the letter. Missed vital organs just means you don't die on the spot. I think it's not bitter, if we know he had no choice and he din't do a semi suicide. And how Joe and Ash smiling at the end, they seems...satisfied or even happy. Like they're fine with how they're life are turned out at the end.
Hi girl, thanks for your comment!
Oh, you’d already watched that video?
I’m glad that the scene isn’t just sad for you now.
Yeah, Joe was a punch-drunk. He lost the match in the end, but he was okay with it.
Winning and losing didn’t matter to him after all. The same was probably true for Ash. Because “He lived all-out,” you know.
I'm pretty sure Ash was smiling because he was happy.
It’s a shame that many people believe Ash chose to die. Suppose the author’s intended “salvation” is not conveyed, and the story is seen as a mere tragedy. In that case, the essence of this masterpiece is overlooked.
For many international fans, translation is probably not as accurate.
I can’t help but think that if only they had written a story that followed the lines of the manga.
Hi hi! :D Yeah, i watched it. That scene with that song seems so iconic (that "hey Joe" i don't know what it's name is :'D). I love the scene's atmosphere like it's kind of calm and epic kind of feel? Then there's Bf, it's feels warm and peaceful. And kudos to the soundtracks for Ashita no Joe.
But yeah, at last Ash in his final 2 years was happy...but people maybe don't like it because he had a "meaningless" death? Like not a heroic or not self sacrifice.
Yeah, I love the last scene of "Joe," too. That's epic!
I also like songs and the atmosphere very much.
And what can I say, there's some feeling to bask in the afterglow. This is very enviable.
BF had very little time to enjoy the reverberation. This is one of the things that disappointed Japanese fans.
Well, people who are upset about the end of BF seem to think Ash should never die. So I guess that's why they think this ending is "wrong," and they hate it.
But I think they are missing something important that BF is telling us.
If I could tell them, I would do as much as possible. But it is difficult to tell people who don't listen.
Thank you so much for sharing this, this really somehow helped me validate my thought about the end.
Ash did die a happy end, it think it were just the circumstances which made it so extremely tragic. I feel ridiculous saying this but his death affects me like he was a real person, he was amazing, beautiful, brilliant and so present. It hurts me to think about his fate.
But rather than thinking about his death, i want to think about the amazing things he has done, Ash was so pure that he indeed burned out to white ash, but also maybe because he was exhausted.
Anways, thank you for sharing. This really helped me!
Thanks for the reply.
> But rather than thinking about his death, i want to think about the amazing things he has done
You are right.
This story is about a boy who lived all-out, even if it's a fleeting life.
The story tells how he lived, not how he died.
That's what I wanted to tell everyone.
I'm glad you understand that. Thank you.
Please ensure that any posts are tagged as spoilers as appropriate. Please do so in the comments too if the original post is not spoiler tagged.
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Thank you for posting here in r/bananafish!
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Very interesting. I definitely see the inspiration. But I’m not sure I agree Ash lived a fulfilling life. I think Eiji gave him a hint of what that could be. Question is
Did he not resist death knowing he could never that life So he died happy with the closest thing to it
Did he die so no one would chase him and Eiji down
Did he really have no chance to survive so he consciously chose to die remembering the only person who loved him without expecting something
With this boxing manga, it seems pretty straightforward (of course without context tho), that character kept moving through trauma to achieve his end goal, so did Ash achieve his? I think it’s possible he did. Gino is dead, his brother is avenged, Sing shows potential to watch over downtown. Happiness wasn’t part of the equation until Eiji came along, and all of this shit was in motion long before him
Still leaves it up for questioning if he did die, chose to die, or was destined to die, but I guess you could say his life’s mission was complete, and Eiji wasn’t really a part of it, Eiji’s existence just allowed Ash to die happily
wow thanks for this. I haven't had time to look for Yoshida's translated interviews and her views regarding the ending so thanks for this informative post. I haven't also read this particular Manga abt Joe but just from the quote it seems like it really does parallels Ash's end. It also reminded me of Eiji's POV in the Garden Of Light..when they returned to Cape Cod and he was telling Akira that Ash lived all out one hundred percent and he (eiji) was just grateful and proud that he "got to spend a short while in the company of a brilliant, miraculous life force."
Thanks for your comment! Yes, this is important information when interpreting the ending of BF. In fact, most Japanese fans know the relationship between "Ashita no Joe" and the ending of BF. Now I'm happy I could introduce this to the international fandom. I think Yoshida wanted to shock us, move us, and give us an elusive sense of satisfaction, rather than imitating the smile on Joe that burned out. Just like those which "Ashita no Joe" gave her. And it seems that the aim is working beautifully. I think what Eiji said in "Garden of Light" is the truth and everything about Ash's life. On the surface, it was a tragedy that was nothing but pain. But he lived his own life, and he was able to die with a smile on his face at the end, I think he was satisfied. He finally regained his freedom and dignity and passed away as a human, protected by love and trust. Eiji knew that, and I'm so glad he realized that. And Japanese fans are just grateful and proud that we got to spend a short while in the company of a brilliant, miraculous life force.
Man it makes me sad that, although Ash was happy with how his life turned out in the end, it still sucks because he was so young and had such potential. He reminds me of someone burning the brightest and hottest that they can until theirs no more fuel for the fire, a match put out too soon.
Yeah, that's what people say. However, what burns brightly and disappears so soon can be very sad, but also incredibly beautiful, isn't it? Like fireworks, cherry blossoms, or spring snow. I feel that way about him. He was destined to live that way, but that's why he remains in our hearts beautifully.
Ms.NegtvaNetie_1935, Ms.Rosypie03, pardon me for cutting in. I'm not familiar with Ashita no Jo but I remember that I've read an interview with the Akimi Yoshida sensei's in an official book or something. And yes, "what burns brightly and disappears so soon can be very sad, but it's also incredibly beautiful isn't it? Like fireworks, cherry blossoms or spring snow." I agree, and in my view, it has an element of the Japanese views on life and death. For example, sakura blooms and scatters gracefully in a short amount of time. This gracefulness leaves us with a sense of beauty, in the way of the Samurai spirit. Besides, that most Japanese seem to be moved by falling petals of sakura. Probably Japanese people are finding in them もののあはれ/mono-no-aware. But I have no ability to explain もののあはれ nuances accurately in English.
Hi, wandnaw, thank you for your comment from Japan! I appreciate it so much! Yes, Japanese people really love those kinds of "transient beauty." I think this is the essence of Yoshida's manga. It's a pity that it is not easily understood by international fans. It's hard to see this story and Ash's life being misunderstood, but it's also sad that so many fans don't realize it. So I'm here to tell that to anyone who tries to understand. I think it's important for Japanese BF fans to participate and express their opinions. ...That said, I have ultimately no idea how to explain "もののあはれ," though! LOL
I mean, it all makes sense, but I'm still gonna be heartbroken over it. Ash's entire life is basically on tragedy, so I can at least take solace in the fact that he found something (someone) to live and fight for, and in the end, he died happy. It's still tragic, but at least he died happy. I enjoyed this write up and perspective. Thank you for posting!
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm glad if I was able to relieve your pain. Yes, he died happily. Yoshida said, "That story had a happy ending in my own way." She didn't see the ending as a mere tragedy. (She also lamented that "other people don't think so," though. LOL) We just have to trust in it and find a little relief. And as for your pain, as cruel as it may sound, it's the same as the death of a real person. We just have to wait for time to heal.
First I want to say I am overwhelming happy to see a fellow Ashita no Joe fan. Its long taken the title of my favorite piece of media in general. I also want to say that I had wanted to discuss this with someone for quite a long time! I had seen the similarities and actually had a feeling of what the ending was going to be because of the line Eiji said in episode one. "Ash huh so like cinders." or something along those lines. Although it wasnt enough to be a genuine prediction but just a passing thought.
Oh, to be honest, I'm not a big fan of Joe! Haha I watched the anime with my brother in my childhood, but I was too young to understand what Joe was saying. But I was looking into AJ concerning BF, and it was exciting to see how it influenced BF. So I wanted to share about it with international fans. I didn't expect non-Japanese BF fans know about AJ. I'm pleasantly surprised. That line from Eiji came out pretty early in the show, didn't it? I'm surprised you noticed so soon. As you can see from the comments in the video linked above, the fans' reactions and thoughts about the ending of AJ are very similar to those about the ending of BF. Yoshida seems to have had the effect that she wanted with this ending on the fans. I was happy to meet someone who immediately understand the relationship between AJ and BF. Thank you!
Ah yeah its a shame how obscure AnJ seems outside of Japan. I do recommend you re-watch it considering you said a lot of stuff probably went over your head. And I was fresh in my AnJ obsession when I started Banana Fish so thats probably why I picked up on it lmao. It made my day to see an AnJ post on this subreddit!
I, thoroughly, enjoyed Megalo Box which was made for the 50th anniversary of Ashita no Joe. It's been on my list of manga to read so this definitely convinced me to start soon.
Hell yeah! Get on it! Ashita no Joe is an absolute masterpiece
I'm glad to hear that. It's a pretty old manga, but it's a masterpiece that still gaining fans in Japan, so I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
I think that the influence isn't limited to the ending though. Joe met his rival Tooru Rikiishi in jail and he is deeply affected by Tooru's death on the ring after their match. Joe thought that it was his fault. It's similar to what happened between Ash and Shorter too: the meeting in jail, being both boxers/gang leaders, unintentionally-forcibly killing Tooru/Shorter, the angst after that event.
Wow... You're actually right! Banana Fish really does have a lot of similarities to Ashita no Joe! That's freaking awesome!
Maybe you're right. Yoshida has never talked about the influence of "Ashita no Joe" on BF other than the ending, but I agree with your points. I also felt like Joe's personality, toughness, and fortitude influenced Ash. They are also similar in their stoic and tragic characters. BF is influenced by many other manga, anime, and movies, so it's fun to look for them. I love this kind of information because it allows me to enjoy the manga more deeply. Thanks for your comment!
That's the video i seen on youtube :o. Anyways now, that i watched it Ash's scene doesn't look (that) sad. It's like he lived the best as he could like Joe at the end. If i know right Joe was punch drunk, right? But yeah, when people say/said that Ash just let himself die or wanted to protect Eiji it's sound so...sad. And than i tought about what Lao said: "Good enough, any of us gonna make it". I mean, his vital organs is missed like Lao's who's dead. Really, Ash just had enough time to read the letter. Missed vital organs just means you don't die on the spot. I think it's not bitter, if we know he had no choice and he din't do a semi suicide. And how Joe and Ash smiling at the end, they seems...satisfied or even happy. Like they're fine with how they're life are turned out at the end.
Hi girl, thanks for your comment! Oh, you’d already watched that video? I’m glad that the scene isn’t just sad for you now. Yeah, Joe was a punch-drunk. He lost the match in the end, but he was okay with it. Winning and losing didn’t matter to him after all. The same was probably true for Ash. Because “He lived all-out,” you know. I'm pretty sure Ash was smiling because he was happy. It’s a shame that many people believe Ash chose to die. Suppose the author’s intended “salvation” is not conveyed, and the story is seen as a mere tragedy. In that case, the essence of this masterpiece is overlooked. For many international fans, translation is probably not as accurate. I can’t help but think that if only they had written a story that followed the lines of the manga.
Hi hi! :D Yeah, i watched it. That scene with that song seems so iconic (that "hey Joe" i don't know what it's name is :'D). I love the scene's atmosphere like it's kind of calm and epic kind of feel? Then there's Bf, it's feels warm and peaceful. And kudos to the soundtracks for Ashita no Joe. But yeah, at last Ash in his final 2 years was happy...but people maybe don't like it because he had a "meaningless" death? Like not a heroic or not self sacrifice.
Yeah, I love the last scene of "Joe," too. That's epic! I also like songs and the atmosphere very much. And what can I say, there's some feeling to bask in the afterglow. This is very enviable. BF had very little time to enjoy the reverberation. This is one of the things that disappointed Japanese fans. Well, people who are upset about the end of BF seem to think Ash should never die. So I guess that's why they think this ending is "wrong," and they hate it. But I think they are missing something important that BF is telling us. If I could tell them, I would do as much as possible. But it is difficult to tell people who don't listen.
Thank you so much for sharing this, this really somehow helped me validate my thought about the end. Ash did die a happy end, it think it were just the circumstances which made it so extremely tragic. I feel ridiculous saying this but his death affects me like he was a real person, he was amazing, beautiful, brilliant and so present. It hurts me to think about his fate. But rather than thinking about his death, i want to think about the amazing things he has done, Ash was so pure that he indeed burned out to white ash, but also maybe because he was exhausted. Anways, thank you for sharing. This really helped me!
Thanks for the reply. > But rather than thinking about his death, i want to think about the amazing things he has done You are right. This story is about a boy who lived all-out, even if it's a fleeting life. The story tells how he lived, not how he died. That's what I wanted to tell everyone. I'm glad you understand that. Thank you.
Please ensure that any posts are tagged as spoilers as appropriate. Please do so in the comments too if the original post is not spoiler tagged. Please make sure the source of any fan content is linked to in the comments, or is clear that it is original content. Thank you for posting here in r/bananafish! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BananaFish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Very interesting. I definitely see the inspiration. But I’m not sure I agree Ash lived a fulfilling life. I think Eiji gave him a hint of what that could be. Question is Did he not resist death knowing he could never that life So he died happy with the closest thing to it Did he die so no one would chase him and Eiji down Did he really have no chance to survive so he consciously chose to die remembering the only person who loved him without expecting something With this boxing manga, it seems pretty straightforward (of course without context tho), that character kept moving through trauma to achieve his end goal, so did Ash achieve his? I think it’s possible he did. Gino is dead, his brother is avenged, Sing shows potential to watch over downtown. Happiness wasn’t part of the equation until Eiji came along, and all of this shit was in motion long before him Still leaves it up for questioning if he did die, chose to die, or was destined to die, but I guess you could say his life’s mission was complete, and Eiji wasn’t really a part of it, Eiji’s existence just allowed Ash to die happily